BibleProject - Firstborn Question and Response

Episode Date: April 12, 2023

Do the biblical authors consider women the second-born siblings of men? Were Joshua and Caleb rivals? Why is Korah, the disgraced rebel, honored in the Psalms? In this episode, Tim and Jon dive into your questions from the firstborn series. Thank you to our audience for your insightful questions!View more resources on our website →Timestamps Rijke from Japan (1:22)Ludy from the Netherlands) and Laura from Ireland (7:30)Craig from Australia (21:31)Daniel from Tennessee (25:02)Tara from Florida (30:19)Garrett from Texas (36:05)David from Massachusetts (40:32)Lizzie from Texas (48:38)Referenced ResourcesInterested in more? Check out Tim’s library here.You can experience our entire library of resources in the BibleProject app, available for Android and iOS.Show Music “Defender (Instrumental)” by TENTSShow produced by Cooper Peltz with Associate Producer Lindsey Ponder, Lead Editor Dan Gummel, and Editors Tyler Bailey and Frank Garza. Mixed by Tyler Bailey. Podcast annotations for the BibleProject app by Hannah Woo. Audience questions compiled by Christopher Maier.Powered and distributed by Simplecast.

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode. Hey, Tim.

Hey, John. Hey. Hey, we're doing a question response episode to finish off our conversation on the theme of the first one. Yep. Yep. Also known as the last will be first. The last will be first. Or the first will be last. I forget. We'll never get that right. Here, the video that came out of these conversations was named the last will be first. The last will be first. Yeah. So we got a ton of questions from the people listening along.

Lots, lots and lots. And you chose some of the ones that rose to the top in terms of being asked the most. Yep. And we'll just get into it. Let's rock it. First, you found, there was a discussion group on Facebook talking about the podcast series, which is totally cool.

Yeah. And you found an interesting comment from someone who's Japanese, grew up in Japan. And so I think we wanted to open with this, because it just itself will be a fascinating contribution to the conversation. And we looked up the pronunciation. And now I forgot. Is it Raika? Yeah, we didn't think it's Raiki or Raika.

So, apologies for not knowing how to pronounce your name. All right, so the comment is, hello all. I've been listening to the first born series and I cannot help but feel there's something missing from the discussion. I live in Japan and culturally the concept of first born is alive and well in Japan and this is interesting because it's not in our culture. We're less so. Less so. Yeah. So we come from a perspective where it's not a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. But in Japan, it's alive and well. Yeah, I guess we should say we live in a sub

culture within America. That's true. There's many cultures. I'm certain that we're at the big deal. Like, for example, Japanese Americans. Sure. It's totally a big deal. Yep. Okay. It's live and well, though the first born idea in Japan has more to do with duties and responsibilities than with privilege. It is the first born's duty to provide and protect for the family. It's the responsibility to represent the family, to stand or fall for the family. I see these duties all through scripture. And since I'm in the middle of a sermon series on Passover, the duty of the first born is to represent the family in punishment and in need for redemption. And that's really strong in that story.

So Tim's work on this theme seemed to be all about privilege and status while not following through on the expectations of who gets the right of the first born in terms of duty. So how would you reconcile these two? Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, for that input. And if it's, we've mainly been focusing

on privileged status, that's certainly just a part of my own limitations, those are human being, cultural limitations. But at the same time, I know we have, at least I've tried to name, I think I did, name, that responsibility is a really big part of this. But maybe it's our own cultural location

where my mind specifically could go as the power and privilege, which is a thing in the biblical story, like very much so. Especially when you have figures like a ham who are trying to get into the position of the first born, the ham pattern that we called it in the series, or like David's sons, like in the beginning of first kings are all jockeying for who gets to be in the position of king.

So, you know, the goal is they want to be responsible, but it's for sure about power and being the first one. So I think more it's probably just I am over emphasizing the power and privilege theme, but you're absolutely right. Like the representation of the whole family, having a duty and responsibility is for sure a core part of this theme as well. So it kind of wraps together all those things. So I'm not sure anything needs to get reconciled. I think more it's, we could probably go through all the stories

we went through and have paid more attention to the duty or responsibility theme. And it would almost be worth having someone from that culture represent that as you go through the whole conversation. And that was just missing. Yeah, odds are they someone from that context like Rika would notice details in the text that just I were invisible to me.

And just a quick note, that is part of the goal of scholarship is to read other people's reflections throughout history and present on whatever the subject is, in this case, the Bible. And so I try to do that as much as I can, but there are only so many hours in a day when we're all limited, which is a great reminder of why it's so crucial to read the Bible in community. Yeah. You know, also just a quick side note, one way that we are moving towards that here at Bible Project in the last year is the development of a team of scholars that I am a part of here. And it's a really exciting kind of forefront. So, y'all have heard, if you followed the podcast for a while, y'all know about Chris'

Quinn on our team. But we are in the midst of a new phase of recruiting and building a larger, more diverse team of scholars, and I'm really excited about it. Okay. So yes, you'll be hearing more about that team and actually from people on that team, you know, in the future of the podcast, but the goal is precisely that we can, within our own team, be able to represent multiple points of view like what Reckett is bringing up here. So, thanks for that. Overall, no?

Okay, there were a lot, like a lot of questions sent in. So as always, we're probably only going to get through a few, but there was a clear, like, winner, in terms of the question that rose to the top. That's what everybody's asking, at least dozens of people are asking. And so we might spend the most of our Q&R episode talking about this. I don't know. We'll see where it goes.

Question is about Adam and Eve, and in the Garden of Eden story, how Adam is created from the dirt first in the narrative, and then the woman is created from the side of the Adam, second, later in the story. And so there were lots of questions about, well, if the order of the first born is so crucial in the where the biblical story goes from here, are we meant to meditate back on that relationship and see the role in the man and woman relationship? Yeah, man and woman relationship, the woman is the late comer. So I just wanted to open with actually two questions

asked by actually interestingly both people from Northern Europe, yep, from Northern Europe, one from Laura from Ireland and then Ludi from the Netherlands and they both had ways of getting at this question and I thought were both helpful and then we'll just kind of session the question for a little bit. Okay. Hi, I'm Ludi from the Netherlands. For a while now, I've been pondering what whole means in 1 Timothy 2 verses 12 to 14, when he says that a woman can't teach or assert authority over a man, he

links this to Adam being formed before Eve, yet whenever God chooses someone to lead his people and have authority, he doesn't seem at all concerned with who was born first. So clearly I'm missing something here. Now I know there is a lot of debate about these verses, but I haven't found much on this particular question. So I'm curious to know what's your take on this. Thank you.

Hi Bible project team, this is Bora. I'm from the US, but I'm currently living in Dublin, Ireland. My question goes back to Eden. Is the theme of the first born present in the relationship between Adam and Eve? On page one of the Bible, we seek God commissioning both male and female image bears to rule his creation. Then on page 2 that introduces an ordering of human creation and that Adam was created first and God created Eve from part of Adam, which the Apostle Paul actually references this order in his first letter to Timothy. So, is it appropriate to consider Adam and Eve through the lens of the theme of the first born?

Thanks so much. Okay, these are great questions. Mm-hmm. And I think to summarize, is both questions are saying, hey, when I read first Timothy two, 12 to 14 were Paul is talking about. He refers to the narrative about the creation,

the secluded order of, yeah, Adam and Eve. Is he riffing on the first born theme? Because what he's talking about seemingly is power dynamics. And that's what the first born theme is about. And he's also talking about who came first in the story. Yeah. Yeah. So it seems like, yeah, seems like Paul's just riffing on the first point thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, potentially. Yep. That's a live question. The question is how is he mapping

on to that? Because the pattern that we saw was that often, beginning with a cane enable, or perhaps the star rulers, the sky rulers and the land rulers, when God elevates someone to a place of responsibility, authority, receiving the blessing. and bestows that honor on the late comer, with a second born, in a way that makes the first comer, or the one who ought to receive that position, you know, yeah, angry, jealous, what, you know, what have you. So that's the typical patterns. The question is, that happens with Cain Enable all the way throughout, how am I supposed to understand the story about the man and the woman in the garden

then, and what I would think is if the man and the woman fits the pattern, the late comer is the woman in the story. And so am I supposed to see her as elevated in a special way over and against the man? That's what I would expect. That's what you would, that's what you might expect. And the question is, well, is that the way anybody in the New Testament reads the story? Well, here's Paul commenting on that, and he doesn't seem to highlight that. And if anything, some people take Paul to mean he highlights the opposite. So that's the puzzle. So these are really big topics and complex texts.

So we don't, this would take many episodes to sort out all the pieces. But let's, for the moment, just observe in the Garden of Eden story. And I'm thinking back to, we've had long conversations about this in our family of God, podcast series. Maybe I could try to summarize the the what I remember is going on. Oh, good. Okay. Great. Yeah, because so God makes the Adam, the Adam and forms out of mud. You're in the Garden of Eden story.

We're in the Garden of Eden story. Yes, let's go straight there. Yep, it begins. Yep. And Adam is there. Yep, it begins. Yep. And Adam is alone. Yep. And he sees the animals all have the ability to like reproduce in pairs and Adam doesn't. God puts Adam into a sleep, splits Adam, like takes a side.

Takes one from his sides. Yeah, that's right. He splits them in half, and then creates woman. And then, and what you showed me a number of times is what God says is I wanna give you an Azer. Yes, yeah. And the Hebrew word Azer is often translated as helper. Yeah, radically inadequate English translation.

Helper makes you think of like, oh, helpmate, like an assistant. Yeah. Where A'sr means like a savior, a delivering ally, a essential other, this person that you would not survive without. That's right. And the reason we know it means that is you simply have to search how that word gets used throughout the Hebrew Bible following Genesis. And the most common person that refers to is God coming to rescue or save somebody who's in trouble. Or it's use of

humans coming to rescue and save another human who's in trouble. And so what's really clear here is that Adam's in trouble to the degree that he can't multiply and to do the earth without a partner with which to multiply it and subdue the earth. That's right. And in other words, the commission given in Genesis 1 is for human who is one humanity, a species that consists of male and female, those two are the one humanity. those two are the one humanity. So in words only one of them cannot fully reflect the image of God, authority, creativity, the abundant generating life of God of which both are an image together. And that's what we learned from Genesis 1. That's right. Was it verse 27 and 28? Yep, 26 to 28th key. Where God says he created humanity in his image. Yep.

Male and female and he gave them Them male and female the authority to rule let them rule be fruitful and multiply so this was for both Adam and Eve Yep, and so one one thought I have about the theme of the first born is that the theme of the first born is typically about which sibling are we going to trace the line of the Messiah from? That's right. God has to choose one sibling to have the blessings so that then the Savior could come from that line. In other words, that differential between the two first born or the second born is something you need outside of Eden. It's outside of Eden because it's the problem

that generated from being stuck outside of Eden. But when we're talking about the creation of man and woman in the Eden narrative, there's no problem yet. The only problem is that it's not good for a human to be alone. The only problem is that they're not generating new life yet. Exactly, yes. And the The only problem is that they're not generating new life yet. Exactly.

And the first point theme is always around siblings. And Adam and Eve aren't framed as siblings. This is this unique, very unique relationship of a one becoming two becoming one. Two become one again. Yeah, that's right. Which is not what siblings do. No. But yeah, siblings come from one.

They are two come from one. Yeah. but they don't become one again. Yeah, they go and start their own. Yep thing. That's right. Man will leave his father and mother and be joined to Become one with another wife. Okay, so I think what is Happening is that the first point theme is showing up What is happening is that the first point of theme is showing up. It was with Abin Neve. In a unique way that we didn't really spend a lot of time talking about, which is they both have the authority to rule. God doesn't choose one of them over the other. He needs both.

That's right. Well God doesn't need both, but humans need to consist of two in order to be fruitful and multiply and rule the land together. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So when there's a sequence of Adam, you know, comes first in the story, and then a woman is created from the side of Adam, or from half of Adam, to become two, the order there, what is interesting is it's the second one made, woman, who becomes the delivering or rescuing agent

for the first, without whom the whole thing cannot work. So in that sense, it is something of an elevated or special place, but it's not rivalry. Now there's also the detail, and maybe there's a place to Kabadok's, I know we can just talk forever about this, where Paul brings this up, that the woman was the one deceived by the snake. So talk about that really quick. Well, there is a set of details in the Eden narrative, and it is what Paul is interested in in 1 Timothy chapter 2, where God gives the command about not eating from the tree

of knowing going bad before the man has been split into man and woman. So, it's when the singular human receives the command. Then you get to sleep in the division into man and woman. Then when Genesis 3 begins, the snake comes to the woman at the tree. And when the snake says, you know, did God really say, you know, you shouldn't eat from any tree of the garden? What she says is, oh no, we can eat from all the trees of the garden. There's just that one in the center that God said, don't eat from it. And you shall not touch it.

You're not like, what? God never said that. Yeah, so it's weird because she repeats God's command but in this kind of misshapen way, in incorrect way. So what that creates is an opportunity implicit in the story is to say, well, if Eve knows about the divine command, it's only because her husband told her, but it seems like he didn't tell her in a very good way because it's like a distorted version of the command.

At least you can put together that set of ideas from just a face value reading of the story. And almost certainly that's the little set of details Paul is drawing attention to in first Timothy too. Yeah, and so. But in other words, the reason my Paul brings up the order of creation is more about how one learns that God's commands and wisdom and whether or not you should be teaching before you've been taught. That's what Paul's addressing when he brings up the Adam and Eve story, because that's what's going on in the churches in Ephesus that he's writing to. Paul's words

don't really reflect on or make a comment on the whole role of responsibility, authority, and first born, and who's the first and who's the second. Paul's often taken to mean that, but it's not necessarily what he's drawing from the Eden narrative. Okay, and if you wanted to chase that down more, just kind of try, where would you go? Yeah.

Look at what Paul might be doing. Yeah. I mean, there's many, it's an important and controversial text in Paul's letters. I have learned most and best from a couple scholars. One is Ben Witherington. His book that's a commentary on first and second Timothy and the letters of John. It's called Letters and Homeles for Hellenized Christians. But he has excellent discussion of first Timothy in its historical and cultural context and in the literary context of the whole letter. I've learned so much from his books. He also has a number of books on women in ancient Judaism, women in the time of Jesus, and women in the New Testament letters.

He's awesome. Also, Lucy Peppiott, a theologian that has written on these things and who we had here at Bible Project to teach a class on one Corinthians. She's done a lot of work on the role of women in Paul's letters and the Corinthian letters specifically. So in her book, rediscovering scripture's vision for women, she has a really great discussion about both Genesis and about 1 Timothy chapter 2.

So those are places to go if you want to dive deeper. All right, so the next question comes from Craig in Australia. Hi, Tim and John. This is Craig and I'm from Craig in Australia. Hi Tim and John, this is Craig and I'm from Melbourne in Australia. I'm hoping that you can unpack Genesis chapter 48, where Jacob, while splitting Joseph's children, takes Manasseh and Ephraim as his own, then crosses his arms and puts Ephraim ahead of Manasseh. What is the significance of this act?

What are the repercussions in the greatest story? And how does it fit into the narrative of the first born? Thank you again for everything that you do. Yeah, great question. Excellent, excellent question. Yeah, man, that narrative in Genesis 48, you should know the narrator is just winking at you, the reader, the whole time, like in terms of narrative patterning and hyperlinks.

So in one sense, remember who Jacob is? Jacob is the second born. The second born who from birth was clawing at the position of the firstborn, famously grabbing at the heel of his brother from the beginning. And then, not just that, but then he and his mom,

or in kuhuts trying to get him that position. And that's the whole thing about tricking and deceiving. Isaac with the food and all that. So in essence, what you see Jacob doing here is replaying for the next generation what he had been doing when he came out of the womb, which is you you're surfing and reversing the order of the first and the second four. So that's just interesting. It's like here we have Jacob as an old man repeating for his grandsons what he did to his brother earlier on in the story. So that's one piece.

Another piece are these are Joseph's two sons. So these are half his real light half Egyptian boys because Joseph married an Egyptian woman Osnath Um, and he's adopting these two sons as His own sons Um, and this is why Manasseh and Frem are named among The sons of Jacob as you go on for the story from here What's interesting is that F.R.I.M. is the second born, but he swaps his hands to make him the first born. And it has to be relevant that F.R.I.M.'s name comes from the Hebrew root to be fruitful,

and multiply. Pari, fruit. So his name is fruit, double fruit, Ephraim. So he's got the double fruit. So he elevates the second born, whose name is double fruit, to be in the first born. And then what's interesting is the word

for when he crosses his hands, the Hebrew word, Sequel. But it's a word play, a homonym, for the same Hebrew root for what the woman sees, the tree is good for gaining wisdom, the haskil, it's from a related root. So what's happening at that moment is the woman is doing what's good in her own eyes and she sees that the tree is good for her skill and she takes from the tree. And so in a similar way here, now here's Jacob repeating what was good in his eyes from an infant all the way up to him being an old man and it's like he's up to his old tricks again.

He's up to his old tricks again. He's up to his old tricks. He's not here. But in so doing, even his old tricks have some role to play in the providential plan of God, not the God-Costom, but that the tribe of Ephraim is the tribe that's going to primarily represent Joseph as you go on through the story. And so you're going to have all of these really, really important people come from Ephraim as you go on through the story. You know people like Joshua and Samuel and so on. So...

So it's right there. We didn't touch down on it, but it's right in the first morning game. Jacob up to his old tracks. Good job, Craig. Next, we've got a question from Daniel in Tennessee. Hey, Kim and John, this is Daniel from Knoxville, Tennessee. And numbers 13, 12 brothers are chosen to spy out the promised land. Joshua from the tribe of Joseph and Caleb from the tribe of Judah and Issa are both singled out as the only two faithful obedient ones. My question is, is there a sibling rivalry between Joshua and Caleb in their descendants? It seems

that in the short term, Joshua is elevated as the favorite sibling and leader of Israel. Yet in the long term, one could say Caleb's line becomes the favorite line as David and Jesus come from the line of Judah. Thanks for all you do. Yeah, Daniel, wait, good observations. Nice work. So Joshua, yeah. He is kind of the hero. Of the, yeah, he receives the baton from Moses. Yeah, the whole next scroll is named after him. the baton from Moses. Yeah. And the whole next scroll is named after him. Totally. But it's Caleb's line where David comes from.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Here we go. Caleb is a super interesting guy, because we're also told that he comes from the lineage

of Esau as well. You find this out in the number scroll. So he's actually half Israel, half Ida might. So in a way, he's Jacob and Esau together in one. Really? Yeah. So he's the standard of Jacob that is through Judah. Yeah. And he's a descendant of a descendant of Esau. Mm-hmm. We're not, there's, his backstory is not told. Like, how did he come into the tribes and when did he join? Sorry.

Esau and Jacob, their brothers. Their brothers, that's right. So how's he descended of Jacob if he's a son of Esau? Oh, through numbers 32-12. He's married back in or something? No, it's about his own lineage. Check out numbers 32-12. We're told that Caleb was the son of Yefuna, the Kenazite.

And so, yes, you're right. He's a Kenazite, and Kenaz is one of the descendants of Issa. But somehow, he married into the tribe of Judah, married back in, such that he gets chosen to be the representative leader of Judah, as the spot one of the spies to go into the land. Oh, okay. Yeah. He's a non-Israelite who's married in. When we say Israelite is because Jacob is the one who becomes the father of all of Israel. That's right. Jacob's brother Issa, his lineage becomes another nation. The Kennazites? That's what they're called?

Yeah, Kennazites. Although it doesn't say it could be. Kennazites are from Issa. Yeah, Kennaz. Just look up Kennaz. Kennaz is a descendant of Issa. Yeah, in Genesis, 36. So, what we don't know is Caleb a Kenazite fully, and then he married into the line Judah, or was maybe

Caleb's mom, yeah, was from the line of Judah, and his dad was from like we don't know. Okay. That's what we don't know. But we know he's got some answers right there. Son of a son of a Kenisite. Yeah. So the point is that as so as multiple things going on here, what's interesting is Caleb and Joshua are not rivals in the story here. They're partners together. When you get into the book of Joshua, Caleb and Joshua do play important similar and contrasting roles.

They both get a special plot in the Promised Land for Caleb's Hebron. And there's this whole really interesting story about Caleb that his daughter is super bold and awesome. And she comes and she asks for extra inheritance in the Promised Land. That's a whole story. Both Caleb and Joshua are honored, but Joshua is the one on the main stage. But Caleb is just as awesome in the book of Joshua. He's just not the figure who's on the main stage.

I don't think the rivalry dimension has turned up between them, but it is interesting that of the two sons that get elevated the most in Jacob's blessing, which are Joseph and Judah, and then you get a whole book attached to Judah. Excuse me, you get a whole book attached to one of the sons of Joseph, namely Joshua, and how he rescues Israel from giants and leads them into the promised land. And then later in the prophets, you have a whole book dedicated to a seed of Judah who rescues Israel from giants.

So Caleb, Joshua, Judah, and Joseph, and then you get Joshua and David. These are all ways of highlighting these two brothers. And both were used by God and blessed in important ways But the seed of the woman even then can only come through one and so it comes through Kaylee comes through Kay Libin And David and so on. Yeah, interesting, but it does the rivalry doesn't ever spill over into conflict Okay, which is pretty cool. Yeah, yeah So good observations, Daniel. Okay. Tara from Florida has a question. Hi, my name is Tara from Orlando, Florida. I was reading

this story of Korra's rebellion in number 16 and thought it fit into the theme of the firstborn. Is this accurate? Also, how does the fact that several Psalms are annotated as being of the descendants of Korah fit into this theme? It seems that even though God enacted his justice on Korah for the rebellion, that God still elevated him by mentioning him and his descendants within the Psalms, thank you for all your help. I'm so grateful for everything that you do, especially this podcast in the classroom. Yeah, Tara, great question. Yeah, such a,

this is cool. Okay, so let's go to numbers. When we were covered numbers in the year we did the journey through the Torah on the podcast, I did try to highlight this. But number 16 begins by naming actually multiple sub tribes, uh, rebelling against Moses and Aaron in numbers chapter 16. And so just real quick, the first lines, it says, now, Korah, the son of it's har, the son of Kohas, the son of Levi. So this is one of the great grandson of Levi, along with Dathan and Aviram, the sons of Ellaav, and also on the son of Pelleth from the sons of Ruben. They all rose up against Moses, and are going to speak out against Moses and Aaron. So we're given three groups. Groups are three people.

Three groups. Korah is from the son of Levi. He's a group. Oh, well, he's going to represent his whole family. Okay. Be right. There's Korah. Korah.

And then there's Dathan and Avi Ram. And then there's Owen. And Elia, what tribe is he from? Yeah. You know what? I've looked this up before. And, hmm, okay, that's right. So it doesn't say here, there is an Eliav who's from the tribe of Zevolun.

And the question is, Is it the same Eliav? It was possible, but it's not explicit. Okay. What's interesting is that the first is from Levi, Korra, and then the last guy mentioned here, Owen is from Ruben. Now, Ruben is actually Jacob's first born.

And what's fascinating is this guy Owen from the tribe of Ruben is only mentioned one time in the whole story, and he's never brought up again. And this is it. So it's a ZIF he's named and then he just disappears. So just that fact alone, that a guy from the first born tribe of Jacob is brought up among the rebels only in the introduction has to be a little hyperlink signaling that we're in the territory of first born rivalry here. So yes, Terra for sure. This is being viewed as a rivalry of multiple tribes, including the first-born tribe from

Jacob rising up against Moses and Aaron. What's interesting is Kora is a Levite, but Moses and Aaron are Levites too. So this is an inner Levite rivalry, but then the mention of on the Grand Santa Rubin signals that we're up. This is now a tribal rivalry of the Sons of Jacob. So that's that. So things don't go well for Cora. No, you could say that. It's, he and his family get de-created. I'm laughing because I'm uncomfortable. But the, you know, the local cosmos of the spot wherever they were in the wilderness is de-created in a big way, because the ground... No, and cracks open.

Cracks open. They slide in, swallow up the rebels. And then fire comes and consumes 250 other rebels that join these guys. So, that's a sad end to the rivalry. So you move on from the story going like, oh man, the sons of Korra, if there's any left, like bomber for them, this is now part of their ancestry. So, low and behold, and you're right, Tara, there are

multiple sub-collections of Psalms in the book of Psalms that are attributed to the descendants of Korah, the sons of Korah. And some of them are some of my favorite that we have turned to many times over the years. So for example, Psalm 46, just about how the river of God makes God's city full of joy, even if all the cosmos falls apart in the flood and chaos that God's city, you know, it's an amazing poem. And they had a front-row review of the world falling apart. How the work of part. At least their ancestors did. Yeah, that's right.

Some 47, 48. So there's many more. So yeah, even just their mere presence in the psalm scroll is, tells you that there is some kind of redemption story about the line of Korra. That's pretty cool. So it's a good example of how there's all these little

hidden detailed gems in the Hebrew Bible. And we're in the deep end right now. That's what I keep thinking about. This is like the real, we're getting deep. Yeah. Getting nerdy. We're getting nerdy, but yeah, what's the good life according to Psalm 1?

Yeah, meditating on the Torah day and night. Garrett, from Texas, you had a cool observation and a good question. Hey Tim and John, this is Garrett Long from Denton, Texas. I had a question about 1st Samuel 20. In verse 11, Johnathan, the first born son of the king, invites David to come out into the field,

which mirrors language from Cane and Abel, but unlike Cane, Jonathan makes a covenant with David and tries to protect him from his father Saul, who is himself an iteration of Cane, is Jonathan an anti-cane and an anti-soul. Thanks y'all. Cool. Yeah, Garrett. Found a little design pattern there. You've yes,'all. Cool. Yeah, Garrett.

Found a little design pattern there. Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah, way to go. That's a double gold star. If I was like your elementary school teacher, and you'd ask that on a paper or something, I don't know. You love the gold star. That's a gold star.

Here's the thing. You must have such a bond memory of childhood and giving a gold star. At some point, here's the thing. The must have such a bond memory of childhood and giving a gold star. At some point, here's the thing that arises. I was a really poor student. Okay, you didn't get the gold star. No, no, no, no, what I'm saying is I've really poor student, mostly like the CD student, all the way through my brain turned on in college. But there were a handful of times that I've got gold stars and I can close my eyes, John, and I can see it.

That's what it is. I think because it was special to me. And you want to give that moment. So rarely got the gold star. That now I'm very liberal with gold stars. And I want to everybody to feel like they have a gold star. Especially when they make a really great observation. So yes, yes, and I wanna, everybody, feel like they have a gold star. Especially when they make a really great observation. So, yes, yes, and yes.

To have the first born son of the first king come to David, who was the last born son. Bring him out of field. Elevated over all of his brothers already. So it's already like David is the late commerce eighth born, who gets put in the position of the brothers already. So it's already like David is the late commerce eighth born who gets put in the position of the first born. And now Saul is being like cane to David. And you would think, Oh, well, if this is the first born of Saul, it's going

to be even worse. And so first Samuel 20 is riddled with the language from the Canaan Abel story, but all to invert it. And it's super, super cool. And there's this cool thing where they work out a signal where David go hide behind that rock. And if my dad says this, then he'll have my assistant fired three arrows, three. It's all about a test of Johnathan's loyalty to David. And then he goes out to the rock and instead of murdering him in the field, he actually says,

I know that you're going to become my king, super, super clever in version of all of this. So yes, way to go, Garrett. So I get the principle there is it's, you're so many layers deep into the cycle of this theme, that the biblical authors can just pull select vocabulary from earlier cycles of the theme. And the point, like you're using this language of, is John is the anti-cane and anti-sol. So biblical authors are constantly wanting to help you understand what's happening by inviting you to compare a character or a moment to earlier characters or moments.

And this is what hyperlinks are. And so you're supposed to both contrast Jonathan and his dad, Saul, and that's a whole set of hyperlink comparisons. But then also both of them are set on analogy and contrast, cane, and important ways too. And we're getting even more someone. How's this qualify?

Is this nerdy? Are we getting nerdy still? This feels like we got a little more shallow water. Oh really? I don't know why. Wow, that's interesting. So the sun's a cora, feels like deep into the pool's interesting. So sons of Korra feels like deep end of the pool. Yeah. And we just swam into like the, the, well, you know what felt the deepest end of the pool was,

yeah, yeah, the Korra, yeah, with the Levites, Caleb and Joshua a little bit. But this story feels like such a simple story. Jonathan and David, their relationship and the connection to the first born theme. I don't know, it just feels more approachable. Yeah, yeah. But here we are. Here we are, yeah, okay. One or two more?

Deal, yep. Yep, let's rock a question from David from Massachusetts. Hi, Jonathan. My name is David, and I'm from Gloucester, Massachusetts. My question is about the theme of the first born in John's prologue and its view of Genesis 1. John connects Jesus' identity to the word that was with God in the beginning and the light which came on the first day of creation. How might John be seeing the theme of the first born at play in Genesis 1, where the human is the lay comer, but the word in the light were the first manifestations of God's creation?

How might this relate to the relationship between humans and wisdom and Proverbs 8, or the relationship humans are supposed to have an embodying the word of God as in Jeremiah 31? Thanks for all you and your team do. Yeah, David. Well done. Well, I gold star for you too. Now I have to get mad. Yeah.

What would be, yeah. Let's find a more age appropriate. Okay, you're right. High five. Diploma, high five, okay. Oh, okay, or diploma. That's scaling it up. Yeah.

And you get a diploma. That's right. Okay, so great observations. I. And you get a diploma. That's right. Okay, so great observations. I love how you put this, David. So the word God's word and God's light are the first ways that God comes onto the scene of creation in Genesis 1. And then humans are the last thing to come onto the scene in the Seven-Day

Creation story. And in John 1, Jesus is introduced as the word of God that is God and was with God, and that is the light shining in the darkness. And then the culmination of that opening part of John is, and the word became flesh, took on flesh. So it imitates the word and light first, human last, John one, word and light first, becomes human at the conclusion. So that's a great observation. So, but what's interesting is in Genesis 1, the word in the light is God's word and God's light.

And then the humans are in image of God. So they're not God, but they are in image of God. And whereas John is trying to say both things at the same time in terms of saying the God's word is with God but also distinct from God trying to create a distinction in our thinking that something can the father and the son can both be God even though they are distinct from one another as yeah the lights God says let there be light

The lights, God says let there be light, but so light appears in some way. But we've also reflected on that what is the light that appears? It's not the sun, it's not protons or photons, it's not photons. And it must be the light of God himself. So when he says let there be light, he's really just like, it's not that something's appearing as that God himself is just entering the darkness. Entering the darkness. So, and just real quick, as you look back to hyperlinks that reference back to that moment, all throughout the Hebrew Bible and New Testament, that's how they viewed that. That it was God's own glorious presence manifest in light.

In his light, we have life. Yep, right. Yep, that's right. And so, and the same thing with the word, that's just of God. That's God's Word. It's not something, you know, in a way it like, it's coming out, so it's happening. Yeah. But it's not something new. It's from God himself. That's right. And the word in the light are parallel with each other. They're connected on day one of creation. Because, and God said, spoke a word, let there be light. And you think both of those are parallel in that they have, both of them have a source. Both light and words have a source in the mind or in the source

of a light source, but they also radiate out. A word goes out from the mouth of the speaker, radiance, somehow, even though biblical knowledge didn't know about photons, and they didn't debate whether it was a way of a particle, they knew that light radiated out from a source. Yeah. And so they're parallel in that way. Mm-hmm. So when it comes to the idea of a first born in that, in the world of that theme, it's

always someone created first. Mm-hmm. When we're talking about light and word, I'm trying to understand. Are we thinking of it as light and word being created? It seems like there's a nuance here where the light and the word are just being empty. No, the light and the word are gods, like gods' word. So there is no first born, the light and the word aren't the first born. They're god, eternal, like entering the darkness.

But if you meditate on both of those images, they do have some kind of duality to them, where there's the thing, there's the source. There it is. And then there's the thing that is sent out from the source. Yes. And that's implicit in the images themselves. And John is going to make those implicit ideas

explicit when he's going to talk about the word, God's word, being both God and with God. That is somehow distinct as a thing that goes out from God. And there, when he means with God, he's going to map on God and the Word to Father and the Son, that the Father's the one who sends out the Son. So the Word in the Light are not created, but what they do bring about is the environment, the cosmos in which humans are called to be an image of God. And John 1 hits replay on all of that, but makes what was implicit in Genesis, explicit

that God and the word are two distinct persons within the one God. And then he's going to ramp it up even and say, and the word in that light became from God became human. So now the human image of God is God and the one who was with God. So simple. Yeah, you're right. And then yes, this connects to Proverbs, God's wisdom, and yes, connects to Jeremiah 31. In fact, Jeremiah 31 is great because it's about how Israel, for most of its history, Jeremiah thinks hasn't been faithful to the Word of God, expressed through the commands of the Torah.

And so he anticipates a day when God's Word and command is written on the heart of God's covenant partners so that no Israelite has to say to their neighbor, hey, you know, let me teach you how to know Yahweh because he says they will all know of me. And John, in the Gospel of John, when Jesus says in John 17, this is eternal life. The day know you and me. So it really is the way that humans are brought in to that eternal communion of love between father and son is by allowing God's love and wisdom to be written on our hearts to bring us into union with the Father through the Son, empowered by the Spirit.

That's really remarkable. Meditations on the nature of reality and human identity, God. I think I need to go take a long walk right now. That's how I'm feeling. All right, last one is Lizzie from Texas. This is Lizzie Keesley from Temple Texas. I noticed that in some ways John the Baptist has the role of firstborn while Jesus is perceived by others sometimes as a secondborn in comparison. They both have miraculous births that but John comes first, and Jesus also starts his ministry later. I feel that John shows a good example of a firstborn

giving up his authority, like in the Gospel of John 3 verses 29-330, where John says, Jesus must increase, but I must decrease. Do you think the gospel writers intend for us to see this connection between John and Jesus? Thank you so much for your wonderful ministry. Lizzy, what a great question. I feel a cold start coming. I feel a cold start coming. I feel a cold start coming.

Uh, Lizzy, I even just the way you set up, the question, I think you know. You know how to grade yourself. Yeah, what a yeah, what a great powers of observation. Lizzie, that's exactly right. It's interesting. The volume's really turned up on this in Luke because the stories of Zekiraya, John's dad Zekiraya and Elizabeth and the of Mary, and the angels that sent to them what the angels say, how they respond to the angels, the timing of the birth, it's all set up really closely as a comparison, which leaves the reader to wonder what the comparison will be between John and Jesus. In other words, the gospel authors themselves really elaborate and build up on the comparison between the two.

So when you come across what John says, John the Baptist says in the gospel of John. So in John chapter 1, verse 15, it's John testifying about Jesus and he says, ah, this is the one of whom I said, the one who comes after me, he is before me because he was before me. So this before and after language here. So he's technically born after me, but he is before me in status or rank because he was before me. And it's a word play on the divine name, I am he was I am. So Jesus will say later, he'll echo the divine name with the seven I am statements and John. And what John is saying here, he'll echo the divine name with the seven I am statements and John. And what John is saying here, he's playing on that, but putting in past tense to say he was before me, even though he came after me. It's like a little riddle. Yeah.

You know, it's cool is the audience picked up a couple of examples, Jonathan and David and here John the Baptist and Jesus, were the first born theme is thwarted in a good way. Yes, yeah. And we didn't look at those. Yeah, that's totally. Yeah, it wasn't time. There was a time.

But I love that. I mean, because there's hope, you know, like, I think John the Baptist, it is easy. Ah, I mean, I think we should reflect on the fact that what human nature is is if you have some power, John the Baptist had a following, a crew, he had authority, and for him to just so quickly relinquish to identify like, oh, like, I need to serve this other thing. And to get it and to then have that humility is something to be celebrated, because it's really hard. Yeah.

And it's easy to just pass up because it's like, well, of course, because it's Jesus. And, you know, but like. Yeah, it reverses the rivalry. Yeah, it reverses the rivalry. Yeah. Yeah, precisely at the moment that like the ultimate firstborn arrives on the scene. The true firstborn, or as Paul says, the firstborn overall creation.

The true firstborn gets a sibling of sort. Yeah, who? An older sibling. Does the right thing, the cousins, right? Yeah, so yeah, we're inverting the cane, the cane, enable pattern. It's cool. Yeah, it is super cool. Yeah, so you're right.

It's hopeful in terms of the character reversals, but also it's hopeful because we have so many listeners of the podcast who are going on and reading the Bible. Yeah. And they're like seeing how it works. Tim, your work is done. What? Just let now can just grow, become. Totally.

But I have a bunch of stuff I want to keep figuring out too. Well, then go do that. I'll do that. I'll do that as well. But I will keep sharing it. Totally. But we love hearing your questions. And I suppose half of these were questions

but that were mostly were just really great observations. Yeah. And let's actually, let's really celebrate that because one of the things that we talk about internally is a desire, a vision to see a multiplication of Bible nerddom, of the meditation of scripture and seeing the design patterns and finding joy and the connections. And then through that gaining God's wisdom and learning how to flourish and follow Jesus.

And so it's just really encouraging to see people doing it and enjoying it. And so yeah, thank you, everyone. Everybody, thank you so much for listening and for being so enthusiastic and supportive of what we're doing. The Bible project is a nonprofit. I just say animation studio, but now it's animation studio and media.

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who would use the read scripture series to provide an overview of books of the Bible. La primera vez que escuché acerca de Bible Project fue hacer unos años cuando un amigo encantado con el contenido pensó que sería una buena idea de utilizarlo como mecanismo enseñanza en nuestra ilesía. Yo uso el proyecto Bible para aprender sobre la literaria significativa y la descripción de la descripción para encerrar mi personal estudiante. Personalmente, uso Bible Project para mejorar mi entendimiento de las escrituras

o para enseñar algún tema en mi grupo a jonear de la iglesia. Mi favorito sobre el bible project es que nos da a las personas como mi, un colegio de freshmen que no les quería ser seminary, la oportunidad de un colegio de la bible. Mi elemento favorito acerca de bible project es la increíble habilidad de resumir tanta información específica y tornarme en un arte que todos podamos entender.

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