BibleProject - Image of God Part 3: The Garden Was Not Perfect

Episode Date: March 13, 2016

In this episode, Tim and Jon wrap up their discussion on the image of God. Scripture tells us that humans are made in the image of God, but what does that actually mean for our lives? Do we exist simply to glorify God, or does bearing the image of God mean we have a greater responsibility? As Christians, we tend to think we have to divide secular and sacred, but as the guys will unpack, this doesn’t have to be the case and we can choose to reflect God and his image in all that we do. In the first part of the episode (01:15-04:48), Tim and Jon talk about why the garden shouldn’t be considered perfection. The garden was good, but it is only the beginning of the story! God’s story will be complete when humans are fully united to God and his creation is redeemed. In the next part of the episode (05:15-16:58), the guys talk about the parent/child relationship between God and humans. It’s crucial to understand that God wants to share his creation with us! Just like in the garden, humans will one day reign with God. The Westminster Confession of Faith is a well-known confession of the church of England. You may be familiar with it: “Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.” In the next part of the episode (17:19-35:16), the guys unpack this a little bit and point out the problems with taking this bystander approach to humanity’s purpose on earth. Glorifying and enjoying God is only a small part of bearing the image of God. So what does it mean for humans to bear the image of God? In the last part of this episode (35:45-1:07:14), the guys will talk about the implications of the image of God for followers of Jesus. We’re not simply a representation of God, we get to work with him to bring about his purpose on earth! But we have to realize that we are image bearers who don’t always represent God well. What does it look like for us to renew our hearts and minds to better represent God to the world? Video: This episode is designed to accompany our video on the image of God. You can view it on our youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbipxLDtY8c Book References: The Westminster Confession of Faith by the Westminster Assembly Why Business Matters to God: (And What Still Needs to Be Fixed) by Jeff Van Duzer Scripture References: Genesis 1-2 Psalm 86 Psalm 8 Show Music: Defender Instrumental by Rosasharn Music Blue Skies by Unwritten Stories Flooded Meadows by Unwritten Stories

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

This is Jonathan Collins, and you're listening to the Bible Project podcast. This is the last of a three-part series where I've been discussing the theme of the image of God with Tim Mackey, who I work with here at the Bible Project. We wrapped up this conversation to the image of God in the last episode, but I felt still kind of uneasy. I pulled Tim back into the recording room and I was telling him Tim, I feel really confused and I kept using the word dizzy. I felt disequilibrated. I had lost this conception of, hey, we exist just to glorify God and enjoy Him, whatever that means. And that now

needs to be replaced by this richer idea of representing God on Earth as his co-creators moving the human project forward. And so this left me with a lot more questions, I wanted to dig in more, so we do that here in the final episode of the image of God. I hope you enjoy. Here we go. Okay, so as we were talking last time about the image of God, we started talking about how this understanding of the word perfect and how we we put on the narrative of Genesis 1 and 2 that

things were perfect and by perfect I typically mean I think other people mean there was no conflict or Another way to think about is you got everything you could desire you desired it and then you got it like there was no conflict or another way to think about it is you got everything you could desire. You desired it and then you got it. Like there was no time between your desire and that desire being fulfilled. So the state of bliss, essentially. And so if that's where you start, then the question narrative is, we had a state of bliss where all our desires were taken care of. We screwed that up.

So now we're not in a state of bliss where all our desires were taken care of, we screwed that up. So now we're not in a state of bliss, but one day we can be in the state of bliss again. God will let us in to the state of bliss, which is heaven. And so just we need to figure out how to get back there. And in the meantime, just sit it out and wait. So that's my understanding. However, you said that perfection is in Hebrew thought is completeness. And your point is, well, the story isn't complete. God put the humans in the garden. It was good before the fall, but it wasn't complete. The their tasks still had to be continued.

Yeah, it's not complete or perfect in the same way the first five minutes of a movie isn't complete. The story is just beginning. There's no. Right. So yeah, and so then in Revelation 22, when this all manifests again, your point is, is the story, it's just, it's a new beginning.

Yes, but what the key difference between Genesis 1 and 2 and Revelation 21 and 22 is that God and humans, at the beginning of the Bible, are in the state of potential partnership and then that partnership Because of human freedom and rebellion has gone wrong and so what is What is perfect in a sense is that the way that the story of the world will move forward is only after God Has so closely bound humans to himself in the image of God of Jesus, that the story of God's world now moves forward with humans in full partnership with God, which is the whole point of the image. The point of the image is to be in partnership with God.

Yes, I mean, if the center of the Christian story is God becoming human. Then apparently God's vision of a perfect universe can't exist without humans. God's chosen not to live without humans. I mean if the incarnation of Jesus means anything as a statement about what God wants, it's that He wants to have His life completely bound up together intimately with humans. That the story of the world is not complete until humans are fully united to God's own life and love. It's so profound. I can't think of a more profound statement to say about God and the world. Das ist ein sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter. Das ist ein sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr guter, sehr The Garden of Eden doesn't focus on itself in the story as a state of perfection. Some more platonic kind of narrative.

Yeah, that's right. I'm not an expert in Greek philosophy or anything, but that idea is that there exist ideal realities and that all physical reality is just a shadow with some perfect realities. And so, just the Bible doesn't think like that. It looks at our world that says, man, there's so much good and amazingness. Clearly, there's something beautiful and good at the heart of all this, but it's also so screwed up at the same time. How did we get here? And what kind of God is, in charge of things, if this is where we're at. And so the biblical story provides an explanation of who God is and what God's purposes are, both for to explain the world around us, but also to explain who Jesus

is and where the world's going in might of Jesus. Yeah. So the perfection of God's world can only take place once its potential is realized in the image of God. And that's what the story of Jesus is about. So I think the reason why we're spinning, or I'm spinning on this idea of perfection so much, is because this idea of being in partnership with God

as image bears who reign on his behalf, that paradigm only really makes sense when you have this narrative. I mean, there's no point in raining when there's perfection. Yeah. You're just loung raining when there's perfection. Yeah. You're just lounging when there's perfection, right? That's where you're just by the pool, drinking margaritas and enjoying perfection.

Right. Yeah, in the platonic view, something like that. In the platonic view, I guess. I mean, you may be raining in that you're asking the waiter to bring you another margarita. Yeah, another martini, another martini. But there's no, but there's no, you're not expanding a garden. You're not, you're not moving the human project forward in any way.

Yeah, what is there to do or accomplish? Right. It's, it's, it's perfect. So, so to understand what it means to be the image of God in Genesis one before, before the tree of the knowledge, good and evil. You have to have room in your brain, the shelf in your brain that says there is a state or there is a time in the story where there's a connection to God and you're reigning and building and exploring and it's good and it's good and it's good and so but anytime there's exploring and building and those kind of things there's

conflict right you can't have you can't you can't right you can't really explore without conflict you can't really build something of importance without running into difficulties and conflict yeah yeah So that's where I think the biblical story challenges our idea of the perfect world that had no trouble or conflict or mosquitoes before the fall of humanity. Right. Yeah. And the biblical story doesn't say that there wouldn't have been earthquakes or mosquitoes or or or or before the fall. So I think what's so challenging to me is I had this very clean mental construct of this platonic perfection. And I mean it's fuzzy because what does it actually mean? Yeah, I don't know. But it was clean in the sense of like okay, we live forever. There's no death. there's no pain. And does that mean there's no mosquitoes?

I don't know, let's not get, think about too hard, but at least it's clean. And now you're taking that away from me. And I think that's where I feel a little dizzy. I just feel like, okay, well then, what does that look like? What is it? Like, I'm trying to just imagine it.

Do you have something in your mind when you imagine it? Well, sure. I mean, the most consistent analogies about God and his people in the scriptures and the biblical story are there's a parent child relationship or a husband-wife relationship. The parent child's a good one. So think of you and I both have little children right now. So when our kids were infants, think, like months one to nine before they could really do, might just have cry and be in the belly. Yeah, so there's, was that perfect? In terms of your relationship with that child,

was it perfect? I don't know, they haven't hurt you yet. They haven't said they hate you and go away and why'd you take my truck away and like they haven't. So in that, in the sense it's it's good. There's this untarnished connection, but it's, but that's because it's potential yet. Like the story is just moving. And then the child and the parent have choices to make about how they're gonna relate and get on with life and build a family together. And that can go good or bad.

And usually it's both. And that's kind of the point of the biblical story is something like that. So there's no way you can envision a parent's relationship to an infant. It's perfect that we haven't gone anywhere yet. You have to tell the story of the building of the family. And then in the biblical story then there's all this conflict and the God overcomes that with a great act of love and becoming the human that we can't be for ourselves.

And so perfection comes with the full healing of that relationship so that the parent and child can now get on with the project and peace. Perfection is about the healing of the relationship. Relationships so that the project can go on. So the purpose is the project. I guess maybe like the the mental shelf is like God wants to build something with us. Yeah. And like you said, like, like the incarnation just shows that God, just he, he'll go to great lengths to make sure that humans are part of this equation.

As he creates, I don't know, I just wasn't, that's not something I was taught in Sunday school. I think it was like, like I said, I think the reason why earlier I mentioned, the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. That, to me, feels kind of platonic. It just feels like, so my mind...

And the purpose of humans within that is pretty static. Yeah. It's just to exist. And not mess... And to not disobey and send the ends. Not bomb God out. And to praise and... So when someone looks at me they'll go oh yeah God's Pretty great because that guy isn't blowing it. I mean just kind of like sure. I don't know

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but so that that's why we're having this conversation in a video about the image of God Yeah, the very meaning of the image is that humans do something with God on God's behalf to work and take the world somewhere. Which is what we were talking about in the Covenants video. That's correct. Yeah, actually that just struck me. I was like the image of God video is in many ways very similar to the Covenants video. Yeah. God wants to partner. But there's difference. Not about partnerships about representation. Representation. And on behalf of. So that I think the mental shelf is,

in this, in the image of God's story, humans are created to be and enlisted as full representations of himself in the world. And apparently in God's mind, he wants to share the cultivation and growing of a world rather than just do it within his own community of love, if you believe, in the Trinity. So the fundamental portrait of the image of God is that God wants to share his love and

creativity and opportunity to make and create and have relationships. He wants to share it with as many creatures as possible. So maybe this is helpful. There's kind of two paradigms we've been messing with. One is for the ancient Near Eastern thinker, the image of God is challenging because or this is a this is a really revolutionary thought because they only thought the king was the image of God and or this is a, this is a really revolutionary thought, because they only thought the king was the image of God. And now this is saying, no, everyone is. So it's very democratic. And we can talk about how Western civilization has really grown up with that idea. So there's that. But then it's also challenging to a very modern Christian perspective.

At least that I grew up in, which is, you're here because God made you to His glory. You're not glorifying Him. Learn to glorify Him so that one day you could be in heaven. The image of God is also challenging to that because it's saying, well, we'll know look, we're supposed to be representing God's task of creation in some way. So, like we could tackle it from either angle. Yeah, and in both of those, there's a diminishment of the significance of human beings. Right. So. Either human beings are the peasants that are supposed to just serve the kings. It's only the elite few who get really to know and represent the gods.

And in the modern view, it's that the human task and the honor that Salmate uses to describe humans is diminished. We're just, there's a sense of that God just putting up with us. Yeah. Yeah, Sal, and I thought, it's all made, it disagrees. It's like, it's all made, so humans are glorious beings that you would almost think you're looking at a God.

Right. And they have amazing capacity and capabilities to, as a creature in the world, to do things with the world that no other creature can do. It's really, it's all made, it's really an amazing meditation on the significance of humans that, yeah, that much of kind of the modern Christian narrative just doesn't, it's just not even on the radar.

But also, what this enriched view of the image of God does is that if the nature of human beings is so much greater than whatever the common Christian view is, then it makes the moral corruption and the tragedy of the human story, even that much more tragic and sad, right? Just for the same reason that defacing a little GI Joe action figure and tossing it in the mud is less tragic than a gold statue that topples over. So I suppose, yeah, within certain Christian traditions, exalting the nature of humanity could be dangerous, but that's what's, but that's what, that is why the New Testament authors call Jesus the capital T, H e, image of God, because he's like, he's, he's the glorious human. He's like, if there's anything, he's the reality of which even I are

just shadows because of our own moral compromise. And that's what CS Lewis I think was getting at in the weight of glory. What you're hearing here is I brought up the Westminster Confession of Faith again to talk about this idea that the chief end of man is the court ifigod and enjoy him forever. You see how it's arranged, like, just a lot of these questions and then a short answer. We wanted to go back and look at where that was written and so we're pulling that up. So that's interesting. So the Westminster Confession of Faith is a statement of faith of the Church of England or the Anglican Church, right, was the England's response in result of the reformation. It was sort of like the English Catholic Church taking on the reformed critique and then reforming itself as a state church, but kind of as a way to correct everything that they thought was wrong with the Catholic Church.

So the Westminster confession was a 33-chapter theological statement. And he writes English, right? He is, yeah. So that's what N.T. Wright means when he says he's broadly a part of the reformed tradition. Right. He's not necessarily talking about of the reformed tradition. He's not necessarily talking about developments of that in America or like the Presbyterian tradition. And then the shorter catechism was also completed by the

Westminster Assembly. So these were both teaching tools of the Anglican Church about a summary of the story and teachings and the message of the Bible. And I got to imagine that there's still a lot of confusion about, okay, what do we really believe then after the Reformation in the Catholic Church? And so they sat down. So there's this catalog, okay, here's where we're at. Yep, yeah, that's right. And so as we become Anglican, something new than what we were. Yeah.

Yeah, let's just make sure we're on the same page. That's right. And so the shorter catechism begins with two questions. It's a series of 107 questions with short one sentence answers, with lots of Bible verses attached. But the first question is, what is the chief and or the chief purpose of human beings? And this is such an interesting question to me. And I think it's actually a potential hook for this video

is in plain English, it's, why did God create humans? Yeah, right. Yeah, what are humans for? What are humans for? In God's purposes for the world. Yeah. And then the answer in the Catechism is, man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever.

And then does it, and that's it. Does it say what it means by that? No, there's lots of Bible verses attached about, yeah, so then there of Bible verses attached about... Yeah, so then there's Bible verses quoting from the Psalms that say, all the nations you have made will come and worship before you to bring glory to your name. Yeah. That's a...

Yeah, it's from Psalm 86. So Psalm 86 is a prayer of that God would have mercy and fulfill his great promises, even though it seems like none of them are coming true. And one of the great prophetic scenes in the Bible is of all nations gathered around giving praise and honor and glory to God as the creator. But it assumes a storyline that all nations are not currently doing that. So no two ends about it. Like that is a big motif in the Bible is of humanity praising and giving honor. But is that the purpose of humanity? Exactly. Does the Bible, does the Bible, in the way it describes the origin and purpose of humans use that

language? And so I think that's the danger of proof texting as you can say, okay here's a verse that says humans will worship God and bring him glory from all over the earth and then say that's proof that the purpose of humanity is to glorify God and then you get this written in a catechism and then people say it, it's a really easy quip. The chief and the man is to glorify God and join him forever. And that might not be the whole story. Yeah. So I think what we're interested in, not necessarily if the shorter catechism got it wrong or something like that. What we're interested in is that it has gone on to create a culture in Protestant Christianity,

and then American Christianity, where the purpose of humans is basically like bystanders in God's story. God's doing this deal. We just stand around and we're meant to shout praise and honor to God because he's way better than us. Yeah. I'm not saying that's not what the Westminster Assembly intended, but that is the kind of culture that has been created by that. Do we know what they intended? Oh, I'm sure there's commentary. I'm sure if I could find where that topic's covered in the longer confession, don't have, don't have. I mean, there's gotta be some story behind why

that's the first thing. Yeah, it's a good point. Like, what, yeah, I wonder what, if they were reacting to anything or if they, I mean, I guess it makes sense as a first thing. What's purpose of man? That's a great place to start. But another great place to start is what's the nature of God?

So I mean, it's interesting they do start here. What's the purpose of man? But yeah, let's talk about the bystander thing. So like It's an interesting image to me when I think of a bystander. I think of someone if you watch people working on like the road when you're drive by and There's like three guys working on this digging hole or something, and two guys are watching, and like one guy's actually doing the work. Have you ever seen that? Yeah, totally.

And you're like, what's going on with my tax dollars? Yeah, let's go. Two guys are bystanding and one guy's working. I mean, they're supervising, so that's a bad illustration. But, or like if I came over to your house and you and your wife were working on a new garden box and I cruise over and I'm standing in your driveway watching you and you guys are working,

sawing, nailing it together, pouring in the soil and I'm just standing there talking with you. Yes. And I'm not helping at all. I'm just bystandering. Yeah. Or to paint it in the picture of the question and answer of the catacasem, it would be,

you would be standing by, obligated by a nature to praise my wife and I. Yeah. To shout our praises about before what we were doing. Right. So my role there in your driveway would to be to make sure everyone knew that you guys were really good at life. Yeah, we're creating planter boxes. I have a creative planter box. So someone would walk by there on 34th Street and then,

and I'd be like, hey, Tim and Jessica are amazing. And then, and that person would walk by, you guys would feel good about that, I'd feel good about that. And at any point, when I get tired, I need to go do something else, I could piece out, and you guys just continue to work. Right. And then that won't be a problem.

You will have fulfilled your purpose, right, namely to observe and to praise. Yeah. The people who are actually making things happen. Doing the work. When we say glorify, the chief end of it is to glorify God. What people think of is worship services.

Right. Where people sit or stand passively, singing about the wonder and goodness of God. Yes. And then I'm trained from childhood, which is the purpose of the short of catechism, to say that's my purpose in life is to do that for God. And then you get this picture of eternity being one long worship service. Yeah.

Again, so we're picking on the catechism. It's not the catechism isn't the problem. The point is that the catechism amongst a whole bunch of other things creates a culture of belief saying this is what the story of the Bible is. This is what Christians believe. And the story of the Bible begins with something that's way more interesting and that depicts humans as much, much more than bystanders. Can we push the metaphor further with the planner box? I'm wondering like, so there's this sense of, I'm a bystander and I'm giving you,

I'm giving you praise and glory. And I'm enjoying it, right? That's part of it, too. I'm just going to and glory and I'm enjoying it right that's part of it too I'm just to enjoy it. I like it. Yeah, you'll get a carrot or two out of the deal And I just feel good when I'm there in the driveway when I leave the driveway I'm like I just can't wait to go back and just watch Tim work on its planter box I just love being in the presence of Tim and so I'm uncomfortable We could use another person in the example. Yeah, that's why it's keep going.

And but what happens is when I leave the driveway, man, life is tough. I'm just, I'm getting beat up. I'm constantly finding myself sad and people are dying around me and they're just death and destruction, but in that driveway I feel good. And one day I can live in that driveway forever. One day I'm gonna be able to sit there for all eternity. I'm never have to worry about anything else. In fact everyone who I love will be there with me in the driveway and we'll be watching you Tim.

Just make this beautiful garden in your backyard. And that's so that's kind of this narrative of the bystander, I suppose. So that's painting a version of the story in which everything else in the world is broken and sinful except you. So I think in the way that traditional even reform theology or the catechism would say but you yourself have your issues like maybe your jealous of my carrot growing abilities and you want to go grow your own planter box of carrots

instead of sit around and watch me, you think you could do a better job. Yeah, and then I do, I try to go do it myself and my friends go, oh John's really backsliding. He's, we need to get him back in the presence of Tim. Yeah, if he was in the presence. But yeah, if you were back in the presence of Tim. Yeah, if he was in the presence. Then anymore. But yeah, if you were back in the driveway, you observing the glory of the real garden.

The real garden, then you'd be like, oh, how stupid of me to try and grow my own. Yeah. Yeah, that's about, but the common denominator through all of this is that you're a bystander offering worship and praise, being grateful for what's given to you, enjoying the presence of the ideal, you know, in the driveway. But yeah, it's so interesting. That's the purpose of man. That's why you exist.

Yeah. Again, I think in a popular understanding, and what's been created by a culture of something like the Westminster Catechism, that's the vision of what humans are for. Yeah, I think this isn't a good reason for not believing something, just that it's not compelling, but that's not very compelling. Not really. And that was a strange thing in my spirituality growing up, is it's not compelling, but you have to believe it is.

Otherwise, like, you're missing out, right? And maybe for some people that is. I think actually, I think that there is something to be said about enjoying a really amazing worship service. Yes. And I don't do it that much because I'm this like rational skeptic guy who can't get out of his own head and just enjoy the moment of life. So that's my own problem.

Yeah. But, but so I'm not saying that's bad. I think that's beautiful. Yeah, and this is probably a good moment to pause and to say that is a significant theme running throughout the story is of God's goodness and glory. When people have encounters with God's presence, they're overwhelmed by its beauty and wonder. And so that is, and that is to be enjoyed. And whoever can come up with and execute a plan

to make a world such as we live in, is superior to me. Yeah, and when we are, and when we are in his presence, it will be awesome. Totally. So that's not the question. We're not saying God's not glorious. What we're saying is, if you're trying to summarize the message and story of the Bible, is it adequate or faithful to the story, to say the chief purpose of humans in the Bible?

That's probably the thing that's not fair about our illustration is there's nothing that amazing about watching you garden. Garden and plant carrots. But if you were in the presence of God, watching God do his thing, right? If you were in God's presence of he's like making the universe, you would be blown away.

And it would be enjoyable. Yes, it would be enjoyable. Yes, it would be enjoyable. But now we're back to what's so interesting and surprising about how the Bible begins because it does depict God in the 10 acts of speaking in six days of creating as this royal artist spinning world into being. Just imagine being there would have been.

So that's remarkable remarkable But then what's surprising about where the story the Bible goes is then humans are appointed as the pinnacle of that creation and then are given Divine authority and responsibility to continue on what God has been doing. So to go back to the gardening metaphor. Salma, we're back to Salma. Salma, yeah. Go back to the gardening metaphor then. It wouldn't be, hey, I'm just hanging out with you

in the driveway. It would be you going, John, let's build this garden together. Yes, yeah. Like come over here, grab a shovel. Yep. Like let's do this together. And actually, I'm gonna, you've seen me work. Now, I'm gonna do hands off and you, you're gonna take over the planter box now on my

charge of this planter box. Yeah. And all guide and instruct you if you trust me. Right. But I've, what is going to bring me the most joy is to let you really come to maturity and take responsibility. And then not just that go and expand this. Expand it. Make the garden box spread out to the yard and the street and then the whole city. That's right. Maybe Jack Hammer, the asphalt. And put garden there too.

And that's right. Yeah, I think that's the story. Yeah, I think what we're saying, what we want to say in this video, and what we're discussing here is, I think we would humbly suggest to Westminster Therese. A revision. A revision that would be the chief end of man

is to represent God. Yes, image God. To image God. And to gratefully praise and honor God for giving us such amazing responsibility and generosity and potential to take this world somewhere, and to live independence on the Creator's wisdom and guidance. But the chief end of man, according to page one of the Bible, is to image and represent God. Yeah. And to be glorious representatives.

And so that doesn't mean that another great thing about being human is that you get to enjoy God forever and glorify Him. Or not even a great thing, but a role, something that humans should be doing. But if you're going to say what's the chief and what's the main purpose in normal English. Yeah. So humans will, by nature, bring honor to their creator if they are images. I mean, the point of the image is to represent a reality. Got it. So, in the same way that a statue of a really famous person is meant to... Glorify that person. Yeah, bring honor to that person.

So, the glory, the glorified God, is built into the idea of image, but there's more to the image that we're saying. Glorifying God is a result. It's a result of humans doing what they were called to do, which is to represent God and to share in God's rule and stewardship. So part of the problem then of this narrative that we're deconstructing is that it begins with the results. Yeah.

Instead of the purpose. Purpose. It calls the result the purpose. Yeah, that of the purpose. Purpose. It calls the result the purpose. Yeah, that's right. There's much more to it than glorifying God and enjoying Him forever. That's a result of humans doing what their purpose is. But their purpose we're saying is something different that the catechism doesn't touch on.

And that different purpose is what this video is going to be about. The image of God. What's the danger or the deficit of believing the bystander narrative? Well, humans by definition are going to do what Genesis 1 says are purposes, to rule and subdue, meaning to go into the world with the purpose and take what's in front of me, make it into new combinations, and so whether it's putting buns on hamburgers, or you know, arranging information for a database or answering phone calls or making garden. So humans by nature reproduce, make communities, and do that.

The question isn't, oh, people aren't going to do that. I think the question is, is that huge, here's what it is. Huge swaths of human life and experience, what we give our time and energy to for the most part, all of a sudden, fits into a divine purpose. What I do at work, what I do in vocation, what I do in my yard, or it all comes under the umbrella of to represent God as his image. But the moment the bystander narrative is your worldview, then pretty much the only time you're doing your divine purpose is when you're at church. So when you're reading your Bible and praying. It plays into this secular sacred division.

Yes, yeah, I think so. That's interesting. Yeah, I think so. It's like, if you're a perfect fuel, it adds fuel to that. Not that it's not, right? Because like it's useful at times to make a distinction between secular and sacred.

Mm-hmm. And say, yeah. But then it's also destructive to take it too far and then not realize that when you work, that's a sacred task. That's right. And you don't have to be at church in order to experience the divine. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, the tragedy, I think as a pastor, is when somebody thinks that to really follow

Jesus or for their life to have meaning before God, they need to go into vocational ministry working at a local church and get out of their career and marketing. So this is what Jeff and Duser, the professor of business and theology, Seattle Pacific University talks about a lot in his book. And does he start? Have you read the book? No, I heard him give a talk in summarize. I've heard his talk on YouTube.

I'll put that in the show notes. Why business matters to God by Jeff Van Duser? Yeah, the talk was really useful. you're looking at the table contents. Does he have anything about image of God in there? The first chapter is in the beginning. Okay. So it's a theology of Genesis 1 and 2. Of work and human.

Oh, he's talking about the Westminster Catechism. Is he? Oh, this is great. So here's Jeff Van Duser. The Westminster Catechism. Is he? Well, oh, this is great. What's he saying? So here's Jeff Anderson. The Westminster Catechism. Short Catechism begins this way. What's the chief and of man? Glorify God and enjoy him together.

And he asked the question, is that all we can say about God's purpose for people active in business, to glorify and enjoy, or can we say something more? Oh, yeah. So many Christians have what he calls an instrumental view of business. It's simply a tool to help you share your faith with other people, talk about justice.

Right, like in our metaphor of the driveway, it's like, why would you go have a job outside the driveway? Well, so to help you bring other people to the driveway. That's the reason. To give yourself resources so that you have extra time to hang out in the driveway more. And so you can bring your family there. And so you can bring your friends there.

In fact, let's throw a party in the driveway. We need a lot of resources for that, right? It costs money. Yeah, that's right. And who's got the resources? The businessmen. That's right. They go get the business dollars and women.

And I'm using it in the general neutral sense. The business people, they make all the money and who cares how they're making it? Like they're making it. I mean, let's don't kill anyone. Yeah. And like don't tell us too much about what's going on at sweatshops. But make the money and then let's use the money to throw the party in the driveway so that everyone can enjoy God forever. So I'm listening to you, and I'm also, this is a great chapter. He has a whole section on the image of God, related to work and work having not instrumental

value. Yeah, it's not an instrument to then go and do something else. But work having an intrinsic value, that's what he calls it. Because if you're going to image God, if you're going to be representing God and building and expanding the garden, that takes work. And so why does business matter to God? Because business is a vehicle in which we work. And work is what expands the garden.

And expanding the garden is what our role as humans. Yes. The garden is a metaphor. Yes. As humans. Yes. Yeah. Page 33. In business terms, you could say Genesis 1 is about God making his initial capital investment.

He richly endows the earth with resources, Adam and Eve, where the initial managers call to creatively organize and manage and enhance the productivity of the garden in a sustainable manner. In addition, the work that Christians do is to reflect the work of God, which includes meaningful work that produces something good. Yeah. So that's the vision. That's pretty smooth that he kind of threw Yeah, so that's the vision.

That's pretty smooth that he kind of threw in there that God's a capitalist. I know. That's pretty. That's so funny. That's so funny. So I think I'm glad, man, I'm glad we're having this conversation right now.

I think this is a huge implication out of understanding the image of God is all of a sudden more of my mundane activities and why fall under the umbrella of glorifying God. And actually forces you to rethink all of your daily activities. Yeah, as representing, how am I representing God in this situation? But even the word representation,

this is a little bit maybe too shallow. Yeah, that's true, that's not enough. It's not just representing. How am I working with God? How am I working for God? Yeah, that's right. How am I expanding the garden? I mean, how do you say that without using a metaphor?

Because I'm not gardening, personally. Yeah, yeah, totally. So be much easier if I was just a gardener. Yeah I'm not gardening, personally. Yeah, totally. So be much easier if I was just a gardener. Yeah, it's saying, like, how do I push the human project? Well, so yeah, so what do we do? You look at what you do with your relationships, and family, and work, like employment, or career vocation.

And you say, what does it mean to develop all of these forward? And that looks different in every circumstances, but develop it, carry it forward, build this in a way that promotes love of neighbor, love of God, Jesus' teachings, that benefits people, that serves them, that creates relational environments where people are safe and healthy and can grow.

So this is why the Garden image actually is so good. Yeah. Because you need both and you need to invest energy in a garden. But also to invest energy is to create an environment where things can become their best, where the tomatoes can become their ripest and so on. So that's work in the ground, that's work tending the vines themselves. So gardening is a great metaphor. So whether you're working at a grocery store line,

how do I make people's experience in this coming through my line, something that allows them to help them, help other people. Yeah, and that will create a great environment for their existence for the few minutes that they're in this line. And then also you're an employee, so you're working along a line of a whole bunch of other employees. What am I doing to contribute to the culture of the checkout line in the grocery store? And if you've ever had the experience of walking away from a checkout line going like, that lady was rad.

She was funny and she's like chatting back with her coworkers and creating a little community experience in the checkout line. And you carry that with you the whole rest of the afternoon something and so we're talking about doesn't matter what you do. Now but you've said I want to put some breaks on this because you said let's not be naive and think that we can oh sure create heaven on earth or realize the kingdom of God in our lives right now. So while we're pursuing it, there's this sense of, yeah, but the kingdom of God is still not here.

There's still problems. Yeah. Or it's not fully here, or it's not here as consistently, or fully as I would hope, hope it to be. And there's kind of two tracks. There's the, well, let's figure out how to make it more here. Let's use technology. Let's use human ingenuity, expand the garden.

Yes. Like find more tools to make the tomatoes more ripe and more plentiful and that people are taking care of. Yes. And you can explain it without any recourse to the Bible, and then you can explain it from within the Bible. So without recourse to the Bible, just life is complex, and anything that you or I do is inevitably going to be flawed

by my own shortcomings and lack of knowledge and skill, then I exist in a world with billions of other people who have a different vision of where the world should go. So we create a tool thinking this tool is going to help us flourish like a shovel. And then someone takes that shovel and uses it to kill someone. Yeah, or to dig a pit. Or to dig a pit. And put sticks over it so that people will fall into it.

And then they can sell those people to slaves. Yes. Yeah. So there's just, uh, sorry, you ask a really great question. What's the problem? Well, I mean, so I mean, what's keeping me from going, okay, as a Christian who believes this narrative, my life is about using my imagination,

ingenuity, creativity, work ethic, all these things to push the human project forward for the glory of God, because we can't, I can, we're the image of God, we can do this. Yes, but that's not all the biblical story has to say. The biblical story is also trying to describe what and how we're in a world that is so clearly not heaven on earth.

And that has to do with the knowledge of good evil. It has to do with the fact that we can't trust one another fully. And it has to do with the fact that we all think much more highly of ourselves than we ought. And so we end up creating things that are for the benefit of me and my group, but not for yours. Or I just because of lack of knowledge or skill, I make something that I think is gonna be helpful and actually it creates as many problems in the world as well.

So some people would say the solution to that is just education. That's possible. I think you just have to say human history thus far has taught us that simply knowing the right and good thing to do is not make humans do the right and good thing. There's that and then there's the problem of being able to actually know what the right and good thing to do is. Yeah, that's right.

Which is, is that part of why in the story it's the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Yes, yes, it's, yeah, yeah, and we're all the way back to what is it for the image of God to be restored in humans in the story of the Bible? Hold on, let's back up. There's a tree. So we got, we got humanity in the image of God. Yes. God plants a tree in the garden, and it's called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and if if you eat it you will surely die. Right. Okay so that's weird, it's just kind of a weird story. But like how is that related to this idea of knowing the difference between good and evil or knowing what is good and what is evil? Why is that gonna kill me and how's that connected to the...

Yeah, so think of how, and again, so it's a story, but it's a text. So you have to pay attention to the meanings of words and the way words get used. So in the story up to that point, what do I know about good or not good? Okay. So what I know is that the word good has been used

really strategically in the story to talk about what God thinks about the world as he's making it. So we know that God is the creator, provider of good, and that good is something he really wants to pack this world full of. But also that God knows therefore what is not good because he really wants to pack this world full of. But also that God knows therefore what is not good, because he's trying to make good. So in order to make something good, you have to know what's not good.

That's right. So when we get to the tree of this knowledge of what is good and what is not good, you have to fit the story together. You have to go, okay, this tree represents God's ability to make this universe. To know, and not just that. And a good way. But to know what is best and what is good. Because I get really complicated really fast. Yes, it does.

Is it, I mean, there's always great moral puzzles about like. The best and the good. I don't think the biblical narrative is trying to talk about philosophical ideas of what is best or good. I don't think the biblical narrative is trying to talk about philosophical ideas of what is best or good. It's not. What is good in Genesis 1?

It's things that are conducive to the flourishing of life and then for the flourishing of human communities. Well, why can't I know that? Oh, I think we do know it. But I'm not supposed to eat of the tree. Oh, well, human beings are by nature because they are the image going to go about the project of carrying.

Which means I should know. Yes. Good for me, Vol. And I should have a knowledge of good and all of a sudden. By definition, humans are going to be making decisions about what is good and what is not good as you go about having families and building neighbors Commuting so I guess but there are a pair of time

The story would make more sense of God saying I gave you this tree to help you with the human project I want you to know good people okay, but so the point is is that but there there is a point at which human beings have to fundamentally Trust gods as the provider and Definer of what is good and not good and not trust what might seem very natural to us I think that's what the story is trying to get at well, yeah But the a tree doesn't that a tree represent like a gift like the fruit of a tree is like I am I am like a gift. Like the fruit of a tree is like, I am eating of this tree and I'm taking it as a gift. So I don't know, I get this picture of... But the point of the tree is that...

Because there's a tree of life, right? Yes. And so taking from the tree of life is taking the gift of life. Yeah. But then there's this other tree and it represents knowing good from evil and I need to know that as if I'm going to expand the garden. So, I think, but in the story, the tree represents a way of knowing that that is off limits or that will bring death to us. So the tree is not a gift.

This tree represents a choice that actually is going to threaten everything that's good if humans take it. And why the tree, that gets into some of the culture of background of these narratives, because the idea of sacred trees in the presence of a god representing something from the god, that's a motif in ancient Babylonian literature. Oh, yeah.

So we're tying into a theme. Be interesting to read some of that. Yeah, super interesting. The Tree of Life is not a unique theme to the Bible. That's a very common ancient Near Eastern image. We have drawings of it from Egypt and ancient Babylonia. Anyway, so in the narrative, the tree represents here's something that belongs to the divine and the sacred.

It's within the sacred presence in the tree. And here's all of this that's good. Image of God go take it. But there are going to be choices before the humans where they are going to have to trust God's vision of what is good and not good and not execute on their own instinct of what they think is good and not good. That's my reading of what the tree is. That makes sense as a reading. And not just mine. There's lots of really smart people who think about it.

So as you imagine, you have to fill in a lot of the blanks. Maybe this is too dangerous to do. But I'm imagining The humans Adam and Eve Imaging God building the garden not eating from that tree. Is God giving them Then relationally the knowledge of good and evil because they're not seizing it. Right. They get it in another way. I mean, I think I think something like that in the narrative is implied. And again, it's a narrative full of all these images. So it also isn't completely clear. And this has been a matter of debate throughout history about that story is, would the humans at some point have access to it?

Right. At a certain point of, is this about maturity? The humans aren't ready for it yet. In which case, going back to the planter box, is really is this about me giving my four year old son freedom over the planter box, but I'm asking him to trust me and to not move forward on his instincts of how to Grow carrots. I'm asking him to trust me and then I'm also saying listen

There's a manual about how to grow carrots and you just need to trust me when I teach you from manual Don't try and read the manual on your own. Let me just teach you how to do this Well, if that was the case we'd probably see the tree the knowledge Geneva show up again in Revelation 22, right? Um, uh, yeah. Well, it just disappears. It disappears. Um, but again, the tree in the command about the tree is what gets, I think, picked up in the stories of Sinai with the Tabernacle and the Torah. Okay. As these gifts to Israel, the divine presence and then with the Tabernacle and the Torah as these gifts to Israel

of the divine presence and then of the Torah to instruct them on how to live a good life. And then the way that gets picked up in the Messianic fulfillment is that Jesus and the Spirit become the sources of life and it's the Spirit's imparting this knowledge of good evil. Are you some kind of picturing a new theme video of the theme of the knowledge of the evil like start with the tree then go to sign eye and then You go to Jesus saying that's interesting great command is love Mm-hmm, and then really it turns into love and whole spirit stuff, right? The tree of the knowledge of good and evil turns into love. Yeah, that's an interesting video.

I mean, I'm an art video. But am I reading too much? I mean, that's what I heard you kind of outlining. That's what I just did. Yeah, that the tree represents that. I've never heard anyone explain that before. There's Torah on Temple. Is this biblical? Are we? Are we? Have we left the realm of biblical theology?

No, no, no, no. The idea that Israel is a parallel to Adam and the Garden. That's all I'm doing. That's very clear. But then jumping to Jesus, does the theme of the command and the tree, what is the spirit that is about recreating humans to the image of God, Jesus. And for Jesus, the Torah was pointing to love of God and neighbor as the human's do. So extrapolate this out. If Jesus's great command is a synthesis of the Torah and the Torah is a...

It's another image of a divine command, the story of the divine command of God. And the antithesis... Okay, but the antithesis of the divine command is eating the tree. So the tree isn't correlated to the 10 commandments. That's not the same thing. No. No. Okay. So the tree's gone. The tree is about a choice. So the tree is in the Sinai covenant is blessing and curses. Yes. Are you gonna obey? Are you gonna obey? Are you gonna obey? Are you not gonna obey? So then in Jesus as he talks about it. That's why Moses is defined. That's why Moses says in Deuteronomy at the end of the Torah, he echoes the words from the beginning of the Torah. He says, Listen Israel, I set before you good and evil, life and death blessing or curse.

Yeah, which is garden that I'm going to be imagery. Yeah, it's all imagery from, and words from Genesis 1 through 3. And so for Israel to obey the Torah and to go into the Promised Land is the equivalent of the choice that's before the humans in the garden. And then when Jesus picks up the law, it does not and cannot obey the divine command, just like the first humans did not, and now we learn could not, or at least chose not too. That's a whole other level.

So, Aaron Eve choose to eat the fruit, which in the same way Israel it's the fruit. I mean, I can't. Yeah, ignore God's guidance and disobey. Disobey. Rebels. Goes in exile. Yeah. Adam and Eve are kicked out of the garden. It goes in exile. Yeah. And then we get to Jesus. And Jesus says he came to fulfill the law. He obeys it this perfectly as the true human. He then summarizes that the law, no, he doesn't summarize the law. He says the greatest command is love, God in love, neighbors. So, summary or is he just making hierarchy of commands? Well, he says all the other commands hang on that. Okay, so it's in some way a cap's like a...

Yeah. What's a good image there? It's the essence. It's the essence of the law. Of the law. And then is there anything that parallels the blessing and curses in Jesus' teaching? Sure. I mean, that's the result of how you respond to the choice.

How does Jesus talk about it? If you listen to my words, you'll be like a wise person who builds their house on a rock. And if you don't listen to me, you're stupid and you're building your house on the stand. So that can be parallel. There's one way. That could be parallel to do this and it'll be blast. Don't do this and you'll... Yeah, yeah.

Or when he sits above Jerusalem and says Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you know, the phone lay, you would allow me. If I could take you as a check under my wings, you didn't recognize the time of your visitation, you've rejected what could have been things of peace. That's a paraphrase, but he says you rejected the things that could have brought Shalom. So yeah, Jesus was very clear that he was forcing his contemporaries with a choice and that to follow him was to obey the Torah and to fulfill Israel's calling and to fulfill the human purpose. He was very clear about that.

So he presents the choice. He presents the choice as well. And then to follow him is paradoxically to die, but also in taking up up your cross that kind of thing But then that's where the whole how's that fit into that whole theme? Well there we're back to you were supposed to that you yeah The humans have made a world where death is the reality and so who's gonna confront death and deal with that Consequence and that's what the cross is about and then, so this theology of the Spirit and the New Testament then becomes the blessing, the way to embrace the way that God's blessing.

I choose, if I keep in step with the Spirit, the Spirit grows fruit. It's garden imagery. The Spirit grows fruit in me, and it's this ethical, renewal and transformation that will affect every part of how I garden with my life. So are we still in some way as Jesus followers confronted with the choice or with the command don't eat of the true knowledge of Godemo? Sure. Yes. That's why yeah the gardens, the garden story is both making a claim about history in some way that as far back as we can tell, humans have been making the wrong choice.

But then it's a choice also that's in front of every person every day. Which practically, what would that look like? So it's a choice where, yeah like here's something that I choose to do because I want it's good I think it's good for me. But actually it's it's not good. That's theoretical. Right. So just let's just start supplying examples. I mean there's easy ones. You know, whatever. examples. I mean, there's easy ones, you know, whatever. Heroin shooting up, heroin feels very good. So I hear, yeah. But I think it's really bad for you. And it's bad on all the people around you. It's bad for people around you. So that's a, that's an extreme example.

But whatever, I don't know, I've never run a business. But it's I'm sure there are things that you could do like as a business owner or something that are good for the business and their good economic decisions, but actually they have a negative effect on the culture of the workplace and employees. Oh, totally. That kind of thing.

So that kind of brings us to something I wanted to talk to you more about, which is the ethical dimension of this. You're saying this, it is the ethical dimension of this. You're saying this, it seems like you're saying this is all about ethics. And Christianity isn't just about being ethical. It's about a relationship, right? I mean, that's kind of the, that's the quip I hear a lot is like, it's not religion, it's

relationship. Yeah. So, yeah, but relationships are really horrible if you're in a relationship with a jerk. A relationship with a heroin addict is hard. Yeah, and a relationship with a really bitter, angry, selfish person that's almost impossible. And so, yeah.

When I say the ethical renewal of humans, it's about relationships. And try this into the gospel then, with the hope of the gospel. Yeah, the hope is that if I'm honest with myself, I know that I made and called and should be a certain kind of person that I perpetually fail to be or that I only am inconsistently. To be the image of God. Yeah, the image of God, love God, love neighbor, love people all the time.

So, lots of people do that a lot of the time. Right. None of us do it all the time. Sure. And none of us do it consistently, some more than others. And so, a huge piece is that has created grave consequences of tragedy and death in our world, that inconsistency in that flaw. So that consequence has to be dealt with, death and the mess of human evil.

There's a relationship that's been fractured. I'm an image-bearing human, no longer fully bearing the image, and so I've both offended, but then also I'm misrepresenting God. So that's the relationship that's broken that needs to be dealt with now. And there's just then my state, the results for me personally are my own moral compromise. And I don't know, we talked about this in the video about approaching middle age. Was that in the law? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, just as you get older, you realize you're not,

as you get out of your 20s, the 30s is the decade of realizing you're not who you thought you would become. And for the few people who do become what they thought they would become the 40s and the 50s, surely, are the decades of release recognizing you're a mixed bag. And so the my own ethical renewal, the renewal of my heart and mind to always be a person that loves and prioritizes

others and that's selfless and that will give, that's, you know, the fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. And man, to be, I would love to be a kind of person who's all of those more consistent. Thanks so much for listening. We have a video that's a synthesis of this whole conversation on our YouTube channel. It's a five minute video called The Image of God.

You can find it at youtube.com slash the Bible project. We'd love to hear from you. And you can do that at more on Facebook, Facebook.com slash join the Bible project on Twitter at join Bible Proj and in real life or in Portland, Oregon. Up next on the podcast will be a conversation on the book of Proverbs as we're going to do a new series on the Wisdom Literature and also coming up is going to be a really great conversation on God and money which I'm really excited about. It's gonna be our first try at doing a podcast

that's more storytelling and less just dialogue. So I hope you guys like it. That'll come out soon. Thanks for being a part of this. No regret, lift my head, try my best in a touch, little one, a touch, little ones in my head. I'm a courage