BibleProject - Jerusalem: A Tale of Two Cities – The City E9

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Israel was meant to be a picture of the heavenly city of God, but over time, it began to look more like Babylon, Nineveh, and Sodom and Gomorrah. In the scroll of Isaiah, the prophet announces Yahweh���s coming judgment on Israel because of their oppression of other humans. Join Tim and Jon as they discuss the city of God in the scroll of Isaiah.View more resources on our website →Timestamps Part one (00:00-13:05)Part two (13:05-28:38)Part three (28:38-36:29)Part four (36:29-51:00)Part five (51:00-57:33)Referenced ResourcesInterested in more? Check out Tim’s library here.You can experience our entire library of resources in the BibleProject app, available for Android and iOS.Show Music “Defender (Instrumental)” by TENTS“Thunderbird” by McKinley WilsonShow produced by Cooper Peltz with Associate Producer Lindsey Ponder, Lead Editor Dan Gummel, and Editors Tyler Bailey and Frank Garza. Mixed by Tyler Bailey. Podcast annotations for the BibleProject app by Hannah Woo.Powered and distributed by Simplecast.

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it in. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

In the story of the Bible, Jerusalem is introduced as the city of God, a city of justice and peace, a city that can unite heaven and earth. And this is especially true under the reign of King David who founds the city of Jerusalem. Yet even the city of Jerusalem is corrupted by human folly and violence. So much so that the prophet says,

see how the faithful city has become a prostitute. You were like silver, you were like choice wine, you were like a faithful partner, but now you're like a prostitute. Your rulers are rebels, your partners are thieves, they love bribery, nobody defends the cause of the orphan. In the widow's case, it doesn't even make it into court these days.

For Isaiah, one of the key indicators that Jerusalem was rotting from within was how it treated the poor and the marginalized. In the laws of the Torah, how people who are the most economically vulnerable in the city, or in their society, women, immigrants, orphans, are the most vulnerable in that social setup, how these types of people are treated is the barometer of how faithful Israel is being to their covenant or not. And so for the prophets they bring up these people as the signs of the times. Frizia, Israel was meant to be a picture of the heavenly cosmic city of God, but instead it has become like a Babylon, like Nineveh Sodom and Gomorrah.

And so, Yahweh is going to enact judgments on His covenant partners who have now become enemies because of their oppression of others. A fiery test is coming for Jerusalem. But the purpose of the fire is to destroy what is impure, so that what God has called it to be will be brought out of the flames to become the faithful city of righteousness and justice. Today Tim McE and I talk about the city of God and the Skrull of Isaiah. I'm John Collins and you're listening to Bible Project Podcast. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. us. Here we go. Hey Tim. Hey John. Hello. Hello. Here we are. We are here. of the city in the Bible. And we are in the prophets and we're going to be in the scroll of Isaiah. Yes. Yes. And we're going to look

at the ideas around cities. What does it mean to be a people that live in cities? What is a good city? What is a bad city? Yeah, this episode we are gonna look at the elevated poetry of the Israelite prophet Isaiah. We're gonna hang out in the Ascroll and specifically the tale of two cities that is told throughout the poetry of Isaiah the major motif that is told throughout the poetry of Isaiah, the major motif, the two cities being this cosmic, sometimes earthly, sometimes heavenly Jerusalem. We'll talk about that. That's one of the cities. One of the cities, and the other city

is given a variety of titles, the fortified city, the exalted city, the city of bloodshed, or sometimes just Babylon. But quick story so far. Okay. Drama of the city. The ideal setup for God and humans as his partners and representatives, the place we're having on Earther One in the beginning is that of a lush garden on High Mountain,

the Eden Paradise. When the humans are deceived and then exiled from that, in the next generation, which replays and intensifies the folly of their parents, one of those sons came, murders his brother, and then flees and builds his own city. So the city originates in the story of the Bible as the result of violence and it's for self-protection via the city walls. Founded by a murderer intended for self-protection. Yeah. And for the reason of somebody might find me and kill me. And so as we've been tracing

it, God wanted to protect that murderer. But with the sign. With the sign, undescribed, You have to let the hyperlinks of later stories teach you what the sign would have been. Oh, but we did it. We did it. We did it. A city. Oh, okay. The city of refuge. Oh, yeah. But what can goes and does is he builds his own city. Oh, I guess I didn't make that full connection. Oh yeah. You think the sign is God saying I'm going to build you a city refuge? In the numbers scroll. In Israel, let's go into the land.

Numbers late 30s, I always forget if it's 34, I think it's 34 or 35. There's a whole bunch of cities set apart for anyone who accidentally or purposely murders someone, they can flee to the city so that whoever finds them can't kill them. It's all the language of the Cane-Enable story describing these cities to prevent the spilling of blood in the land. So that's a later story building back on. Now it could be, well, actually this is important because God now provides cities as a place of refuge to prevent the spilling of blood.

And it's a creative inversion because Cain's city was because he spilled blood and for his own self-protection, instead of trusting the sign that God would give him. So what was the sign? What we know is later in the biblical story, what God provides for murder, it is Israelites. Is it? Cities of refuge. City of refuge. And if I remember correctly, there's a word play here, because sign is kind of similar to the word city. Yeah, there was a network of word plays in the Eden story that compared,

that actually contrasted between the thing that God provides for the human in need. The Azer. The Azer, which is a delivering help, or delivering rescue, and then what Cain builds for himself is the Eir, which is the city. And Hebrew those look very similar. They look very similar. These Ezra, Eir, and the word Oat, Sin, which is what God wants to give to Cain, is a word play of another related word, order, which is skin. And we talked about this long time ago. So back in episode, whatever, two, three or four. So the story is that cities originate from the human mind as a form of self-protection as a result of murder.

And so we've been tracking with how that portrait of the city just gets escalated and escalated in the stories of Babylon and Assyria and Sodom and Gomorrah, Samaria and so on. But then you also have the first positive city in the story is when Joseph is elevated to be the wise co-grueler of Egypt, he turns the store cities of Egypt into a blessing for the nations in a time of famine. And so cities can be a source of life, or they can be a source of death. They can breed the preservation food for the preservation of life, or they can breed violence, you know, for the preservation of life, or they can breed violence for the taking of life. And so cities become like extended humans.

There's like human bodies with many parts. The extension of us. Yeah, but just scaled up. Yeah, I was thinking about we create cities to live kind of within. Or yeah, they're around us, but then they kind of, in a way, begin to leverage us and become an extension of us. Yeah, we both make them, humans make them

while the cities are also making the humans what they are, forming them and the cities and just. And there's two ways to make them. We use this phrase that the city is your mother. Yes, that's right. So it could be a protective, life-giving place. And that's building off of the comparison between Eve and what God providing Eve for the lone human

and then God providing the city. It's also what Paul says of the city and the sky. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's an only Jerusalem. But the city could also become a monster. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's an only Jerusalem. Yeah. But the city could also become a monster. Yeah, that's right. Mother or a monster. So that's the tale of two cities.

Yeah. So when we get to the Isaiah scroll, which is the first scroll in the latter prophets, so he revives three big parts, Torah, prophets, writings, the middle part, the prophets has two sections, the former prophets, writings, the middle part, the prophets has two sections. The former prophets, which continue the story from the Torah of Israel going into the Promised Land, blowing at big time, building lots of cities that have become terrible, a den of vipers and violence, and then they get conquered by Babylon and go into exile. then you get ladder prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the 12 prophets,

four scrolls, and these are mostly poetic, though there's a lot of narrative, and they assume that the reader has fully tracked with all the design patterns and hyperlinks of the Torah. That's why they're so hard to read. That's why they're so hard to read. They just assume so much of the reader. Yeah. And what we'll see is that all of the negative cities

get glombed together into one mega monster. Often called Babylon. Yeah, even though that was one of the cities. It's only one. And actually, we'll see. It's like a multi-headed monster. Whereas the positive cities throughout the story, there haven't been that many. There were the cities of Egypt and Joseph's day, but

then those cities became the source of death for this light, yeah, in Moses's day. So really the only positive city that's really a bright star is Jerusalem, but even it gets corrupted by the later kings from the line of David, but it's always viewed as a tragedy of like what could have been or not to have been. And so Jerusalem becomes the image of the good city. And we talked through the stories of even the founding of Jerusalem, which is not a story celebrating the founding of the city of God in some like idealistic way. It's not great propaganda for Jerusalem as the capital city of God.

Embedded with all of these concerns and problems. The story commemorating Jerusalem becoming the sacred capital of the tribes of Israel, is told by comparing it to the failure of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. And then it just gets worse. So that's what we talked about in the last episode. But despite that, if there is any city in the Bible that can represent what can be good of a city? How could a city be our mother?

Yeah. How could a city be our mother? Yeah. How could a city be a city of God? Mm-hmm. That the Jerusalem is... Comes closest. Comes closest. Yeah. Maybe kind of think back to our years of thinking

about the theme of the image of God. Yeah. And just like Moses came closest. Came the closest so that on and to the rest of the Bible, even in the New Testament, Moses is still a glowing example of faithfulness towards God that Jesus is compared to. So similarly, Jerusalem is kind of like the closest

that you get. Yeah, because Moses, his origin story, has a lot of details that show him to be a pretty flawed, complicated figure. And then he ends. Yeah. In a way that shows that he's flawed. But he is the human who can ascend the mountain, hang out with God, get the covenant, and see the heavenly temple.

See the heavenly temple. Yeah. And so Jerusalem is founded as a city that like the tabernacle that Moses oversaw is like an earthly image of the heavenly city and the heavenly temple. All of this is why the prophet Isaiah is so bent out of shape about what he sees going on into Ryslam in his day. So nothing for it, let's just dive in. The poetry will explain itself kind of. Ha ha. I like poetry, does it? Yeah, so let's just start with the opening poem

of the Aziz scroll and let's see what happens with the tale of two cities. I say, Chapter 1, Verse 1, The vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem. So Judah being the region, the big tribal territory. And then Jerusalem is in the kind of northeastern part of the territory of Judah. Yep, yeah. Of Judah. So the vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem, that Isaiah, Yeshahu, his name in Hebrew.

Yeshahu? Yeshahu. Oh, well. Son of Am Oh, well. Yeah. So, in a bit of an almost sa, during the reigns of, and then you get four kings from the line of David. Uzayah, Jatham Ahaz, Hezekiah.

Okay. Uzayah, Yotam, Ahaz, and Chiskyah, kings of Judah. And that whole line right there is a glowing hyperlink to the Kings scroll. How far down are we from David's time? Oh, we're like 150 years. Okay. Yeah. Past David.

And is the Northern Kingdom branched off at this point? Yeah, yep. The Kingdom is split and that bothers Isaiah. He knows that they're supposed to be unified. and the hostility between the north and the south is over a century and half old now. Okay, because it happens immediately after David. And so this is a vision concerning what we would call the southern kingdom, but it's Judah. Judah. Yeah, where in the capital is Jerusalem. That's right. Yep. And these are the kings. Yep. The Isaiah hung with. Yep. Yeah. You got it. Hear me. You have, and listen, oh, earth for Yahweh has spoken. And what does he speak? I have

raised children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me. And he's referring to his covenant with Israel. Yep. Yep. So here, it's Yahweh is like a parent. Yeah. And the children of God. Is your brother the children of God? Yeah. And they're failure to be faithful to Yahweh.

Is there a rebellion? And covenant is like a rebellious teenage kid. Like an adolescent kid, just. Yeah. I'm going to go listen to Pukkrock. See? And. Yeah, that's right. You know, an ox is able to recognize its owner. And a donkey can recognize the feeding trough of its master.

But Israel, yeah, they don't. They don't recognize. And my people, yeah, they don't. They don't recognize. And my people? Yeah, they don't. They don't know. Dumber than an ox. Yes.

Or an ass in classic King James. Literally an ass. And a donkey. So the whole point is not only are the rebellious children, but even animals know the one who provides for them and cares for them, and like know how the relationship works. But Israel is fundamentally misunderstood who it is that call them into existence and that kind of thing. So I'm just saying, this is the general context of Isaiah's message as a whole.

So he's pronouncing doom and destruction that will come in the form of Yahweh handing Israel north and south over to their enemies, namely Assyria and then Babylon. And that hasn't happened yet. Assyria hasn't come yet. Assyria is on the rise and is knocking at the door and ascending emissaries saying, you better. Because a series took out the Northern King of first, not has not happened yet. And that's not happened yet.

But it's on the rise. On the rise. So a series and their cities, you know? A series, that's right. Yeah, that's right. With the power of their cities. The capital city, Nineveh. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yep. So Nineveh and Babylon are kind of like the icons of these two empires. They're like two heads of the dragon. Yeah, that threatened and took out the cities of its realm. Go down to verse 10. Here the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom. Here the Torah of our God, you people of Gomorrah. Why would we bring Sodom into this?

Are they still around at this time? No, they got nothing I want to tell. They got toast. A thousand years ago. You people of Gamora. Why would we bring Sodom into this? Are they still around at this time? No, I think I went out. They got toast. Yeah. A thousand years ago. All right. A thousand years ago.

It's just poking in an old wound here. Yeah. So it's comparison. He's comparing his real leaders of Jerusalem I see to end the moral social conditions of Jerusalem to Sodom and Gomorrah. But so notice the comparison, that's one of the infamous cities in Hebrew Bible, and he's drawing the comparison here of current earthly Jerusalem.

Right. See how the faithful city has become a prostitute. So he sees that Jerusalem has some faithful origins because it's the city of faith, city of faithfulness. Is that a hyperlinked aiv? Faithfulness and trust is a key word in the David's story, specifically about when David founds Jerusalem. As the capital city, the place where the tabernacle is, and God says to David, if you continue to trust me, I will give you a trustworthy or a faithful monarchy and descendants and I'll make the city a place where Israel can be safe. So the faithful city, it's recalling the days of David, essentially. But the faithful city, so notice how we're depicting the city of the woman.

Oh, used like a faithful wife, a wife that was faithful to the covenant, has become a prostitute. So here we're in the imagery of idolatry, Israel giving their allegiance to other gods as adultery. Yeah, so what's interesting is usually when I think of this metaphor of a faithful wife or a wife that process twos herself out, I think of not the city, but the people in the city. Oh, yeah.

And so there's a real blending here between like the city in Weber River Presents, but the people in the city. And it's good. Like we said, like the city becomes an extension of us. It's our exoskeleton. It's like, you can't completely tease it apart. It's good. Yeah, that's exactly right. It's a part for whole, or whole for part.

But this theme is us trying to say, what does it mean to build a city and what are cities and it's gotten to create a city and all this stuff. But you can't talk about a city without talking about the people. Is that people? Yeah. In the way that you can't talk about a city without talking about the people. Is that a people? Yeah. The way that you can't talk about, like a turtle shell without talking about the turtle. Yeah, that's good.

That's exactly right. Yeah, he's not, yeah, what is there to accuse a city of? The city is the people. Yeah. So, yeah, the people in the city are as stupid as, as in the oxes. Yeah. They're as wicked as Sodom and Gomorrah, and then he calls on prostitutes. Yeah.

He's just coming out swinging. That's right. But their origins are like Adam and Eve, right? Images of God, destined for faithfulness and representation that has become unfaithful. She was once full of justice, righteousness, mishpot, yep, and righteousness. Those are two words, justice and righteousness,

right relationships between every member of the community. Righteousness actually used to camp in the middle of the city. But now murderers, cane, lemic. City of cane. City of cane. Yeah. He starts using some metallurgy. Metalurgy?

Yeah, your silver has become dross. What is dross? When you heat up precious metals and they liquefy, dross is... Impurities of rocks and dirt and gravel and that got into it. And so you skim it off, you strain it out. Your choice wine has gotten diluted with water. So you were like just a really great bottle of wine. Yeah.

And you poured into the glass and then you just poured glass of wine. Yeah, totally. So notice how the idea of the faithful city, you were like silver, you were like choice wine, you were like a faithful partner, but now you're like a prostitute, you're like dross, you're like really low quality wine, your rulers or rebels, your partners or thieves, they love briberies, the name of the day, they love briberies, they chase after gifts, nobody defends the cause of the day. They love bribery, they chase after gifts. Nobody defends the cause of the orphan.

In the widow's case, it doesn't even make it into court these days, because she can't bribe anybody. Yeah. She doesn't have the means. So when it gets to brass tax, it's really about how are you treating each other? Correct. Yes, that's right. Yep. And are you doing it with, well, are you taking care of each other? Yes., are you taking care of each other? Yes. Or are you taking advantage of each other? In the laws of the Torah, how people who are the most economically vulnerable in the city, or in their society, which was a patriarchal federation of tribes settled in the agriculture. And so women, immigrants, orphans are the most vulnerable in that social setup. And so in the laws of the Torah, they're like a barometer. How these types of people are treated.

Is the barometer of how faithful Israel is being to their covenant or not? And so for the prophets, they bring up these people as the signs of the times. So what Yahweh says is I'm going to relieve myself of my enemies and avenge myself of my foes. That is, Paddhuff. Yeah, my covenant partners. I will turn my hand away from you. I'm going to purge your dross. I'm going to remove your impurities. He doesn't pick up the wine imagery again. But I'm going to purge, I'm going to melt you down. Yeah. That's what it means.

And I will restore your leaders as in days of old, as at the beginning. And then you will be called the city of righteousness, the faithful city. So this is a redemption story. God's... He's going to redeem it back to the faithful city, but to do that, there's going to be a purging, a melting...

Yep. A fiery ordeal, a fiery test is coming for Jerusalem. But the purpose of the fire is to destroy what is impure so that what God has called it to be will be brought out of the flames to become the faithful city of righteousness and justice. So this is in summary form. You just got the whole book right there. Hmm. Really? It's either going to be poems pointing out just how bad it's become. It's going to be poems announcing the coming of the fire. And the fire is a Syria? A Syria, and then Babylon. And then Babylon.

And then that. And then... The fire is another city. The fire is letting other terrible cities, whatever, bilch up there, whatever terrible stuff, and they're going to come conquer your bad city. And then what God's going to do is bring down those bad cities through the next empire, Persia, which gets announced also in the book of Isaiah. And there's going to be these cycles of cyclical floods of human evil spilling over until

the ultimate final cycle, where out of which will emerge the faithful city of righteousness. And that's the story arc. Now next part of the poem, verse 27, Zion, which is a name for Jerusalem, will be delivered with justice. And her repentant ones with righteousness. Oh, so how do I, how do I know whether the fire will be bad news or good news for me, if I'm an inhabitant of the city? Because there's, there's a purging fire coming. So it's going to carry away all the bad stuff.

But that burning is also called here in verse 27, a rescue. Zion will be rescued. The justice here is the burning. Yeah, there's a burning justice that you think is bad news, but then it's also delivered. It's a rescue. And it's the repentant ones that are rescued through righteousness or with righteousness.

Yeah, was I mean to be rescued with righteousness? Yeah. Well, it could be referring to God's righteousness that he is doing the right thing. He's doing right by his covenant, by bringing the consequences, but then also fulfilling his promise to use these people to bless all nations. Or it could be that the repentant ones will carry out a life of doing right by God and right by neighbor, and that will demonstrate their repentance. And all of a sudden, this whole thing sounds like John the Baptist. John the Baptist is this right here, to his generation.

Right. Yeah. So this is the story arc. So what's interesting is, right now it's just one city. But really that one city is now being talked about as if it's two cities. Is it? It's the faithful city.

You used to be the faithful city, but now you've become the prostitute city. You used to be the city of righteousness, but now you're a city of murderers. So the same city can be either the earthly city of Cain or it could become the heavenly city of righteousness and faithfulness. But it's the same city.

It's the same city, but then after a flood of justice, another city can emerge. Yep. Okay. So the same city, kind of like the same person, can be good or bad. So maybe I'm not saying that in a helpful way. Each city, in other words, the fate of any individual human and the fate of any individual city isn't destined. This is what God says to Cain.

Sins the Croucher, right at the door, but you can rule it. Like you have a choice here. Didn't have to go this way and it doesn't have to keep going this way. You can turn. That's why it says, Zion will be delivered with justice and her repentant ones will be delivered with righteousness. will be delivered with righteousness. So that's the fate of the city. And it can go right now. It's the same city facing a choice that goes in two directions. I'm able to say it that way. Okay, so when you say that there's two cities,

what you're saying is, the one city has two choices, or the one city has two destinies. Yeah. You can be wiped out or can be rebirthed. And the re-burning comes as a result of the flood of justice, but then gives rise to an opportunity to kind of be restored to a faithful city.

You got it. ... Isaiah chapter 2. Here we go. We're just moving through Isaiah. This is what Isaiah, son of Amosah, concerning Judah and Jerusalem. In the last days, at the end of days, the fulfillment of the times, the mountain of Yahweh's temple will be established as the highest of mountains. So we start here with a mountain in a temple, which is Jerusalem imagery, because it's on a tall hill.

And it's Eden imagery. And it's Eden imagery. It will be established as the highest of the mountains, exalted above the hills, and all the nations will river into it. Yeah. Which, yeah, it's making us think of the rivers that float out of the Eden, temple, garden that went to all the nations. So like the goodness of Eden was streaming out to the nations. And here, now all the nations are streaming up into Eden.

Yep. Yep. And many people will come and say, Hey, let's go up to the mountain of Yahweh, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will Torah us. It's the word Torah, instruction, but as a verb. He will teach us his ways. So we can walk in his path. Then the poet comes back in, the Torah, indeed, will go out from Zion, the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem. So the mountain is the temple, is the city. And first all the nations come in, but then Yahweh's instruction will go out. So it's kind of this in and out in a Metry. And when the Torah goes out, he will bring justice between the nations and

settle disputes between many peoples with what result? That people will hammer their swords and turn them into farming equipment. Yeah, farming equipment. And spears will get turned into pruning hooks for, you know, your fig trees and your olive trees harvesting. And nation won't take up sword against nation nor will they prepare for war anymore. Come, seed of Jacob, we should walk in the light of Yahweh. So there is coming a day of light, and that day of light involves the exaltation of the mountain temple city,

that will both receive all the nations into it, but then also Yahweh's instruction and wise commands will go out from it to bring peace and shalom to the nations. So it's clear we're talking now about what Jerusalem could become. Were it to become that faithful city of righteousness? I think what's striking me right now, I hope this isn't too divergent, is trying to imagine myself in the setting, right? So you've got these pretty gnarly Assyrian kings with just intense armies. And they're just beautiful lavish cities.

And they're out in the east, none of a, it's the serial later Babylon. And they're marching around, and they're just destroying your neighbors. And like they're making you pay tribute and if you don't, they're just... Yeah, laying waste. Yeah, to your land. Yeah, in your cities.

In your cities. Yeah. And you think, man, these guys suck, obviously. And, but I think also you're thinking, one day maybe we can be that great city, right? Maybe one day we can be the ones that go out and conquer. Yeah, it's dead. We'll go pay them back We'll conquer them back Because that's kind of what happens with Babylon Babylon. They used to be yeah, they were the guys in charge Yeah, Syria now is in charge. Yeah, and it's gonna be this neo Babylon that's gonna take back over

Yeah, and they're like, all right, our turn. We're back in charge again. We're back in charge again. And it's always this kind of like who gets to be on top and be the ones, what city is gonna be in charge? And in that context, you've got this profit saying what we're supposed to be is a faithful city of righteousness that's taking care of each other.

Like that's what we need to be doing. And if we focus in on that, we're not gonna conquer our nations, we're gonna bring peace to nations. Yeah, sure, yeah, they're all gonna come here. Like who else was thinking that way during that time? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, this is very exalted.

It's not, yeah, this was a minority viewpoint. This wasn't the like, yeah. Yeah. Is that what you mean? Yeah. But the prophets are keeping alive this tradition that seems to have been a minority view in Israel throughout its history that they were called by the God of all nations and all creation to become the source, the conduit of the Creator's blessing to all of the nations somehow. And so Isaiah is using here both language steeped in their own tradition that we find in the Hebrew Bible, all this Eden temple imagery. But there's also connections here, the King of Assyria, built Nineveh and his palace in Nineveh with a blushous garden on top of the big hill.

With a river's little like, what do you call those? They're human-made aqueduct canals. Or canals, yeah, going out from the garden into throughout the city. Right. He had his own little city. Yeah, so these were cross-cultural motifs of the high divine mountain with the river flowing out, but here the direction of the rivers inverted. So what he's saying is comprehensible to their Assyrian neighbors, but it's also making a more cosmic claim for sure. And also, let's remember that there's multiple contexts for the writings of the prophets.

There's the writings as we think about them in the days that they're situated in the story. But then there's also many generations later, the prophets who are compiling all of this earlier literature after a serious fell. Yeah. And after Israel gets come back. Yeah, totally. See, they're late.

After being conquered, exiled, and returned by Babylon, well, that's where we're going in the next couple things, in Isaiah. But right now, it's a bold hope that the faithful, Jerusalem city of righteousness can become a heaven on earth, source of life and peace and justice for all the nations. That's the glory. And it's associated with the light of Yahweh.

You can walk in the light of Yahweh if you hold this promise before you. That's the image here. Now, we know that to get to this exalted state, there's purging on the way. And that purging is going to take the form of a Syria coming. Mm-hmm. And Yahweh will hand his people over to a Syria. And then it will take the form of another empire after that, Babylon. And those are the themes discussed in Isaiah 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.

And what I want to turn our attention to is like the alternate great city, the enemy great city, which is as they are chapter 13 and 14 we get what are called the oracles against Babylon, and they're remarkable, and they would require many podcast episodes just to tour our way through. I just want to survey the opening lines. It begins by saying the oracle of Babylon, which Isaiah, son of Amos saw. And it echoes exactly the words of chapter 2. That's how chapter 2 began. Except the city that he saw in chapter 2 was Jerusalem. So it's very clearly comparing the passage we just read to this one now. And the opening lines are on a mountain that has been swept clean.

Go raise up a banner. Lift up a voice to them. Wave your hands so that they can enter in to the gates of nobles. So somebody's being told to go get up on a high mountain and raise up a banner. The banner would signify. Ah, well, so this is why this would take many podcast episodes. The banner was identified for you in chapter 11. Okay. And in chapter 11, what you're told is that the future Messianic King from the line of David will stand like a banner for all the nations, and his place of

rest will be divine glory. Do you get an image of Jerusalem being ruled by a king who has lifting up a banner and all the nations and the divine glory cloud that rested over the tabernacle will somehow identified with this king resting on top of the mountain. Now you're being told that that mountain top is going to be there with that banner and everybody, you better enter the gate of the city and get to the top of that hill. Swept clean meaning this is kind of post of the day. Yeah, in other words, it's a new start. Yeah. Yeah, a bare mountain top.

Yeah. So every single one of these lines is words, is hyperlinked to earlier parts of Isaiah. Okay. The mountain that has a signal on it, everybody's coming up to it. So there's a summoning to come up to this city on top of the mountain.

Why? Well, a flood's coming. Oh, another flood. Yeah. I have commanded my holy ones. I have called my warriors for my anger. Those who rejoice in my exaltation, it's the sound, the sound of a horde on the mountains, It's the sound, the sound of a horde on the mountains. The semblance of a great people, the sound of an uproar of kingdoms, nations being assembled, Yahweh mustering armies and army of war. Oh, they're coming from the distant lands, from the edge of the heavens. Yahweh and the implements of his anger to bring ruin on all the land. Whale for the day of Yahweh is near, like devastation from the Almighty. It comes.

So the conquering armies are on their way? There's a cosmic army coming. on their way. There's a cosmic army coming. And the apparently you want to get up to that high hill and hang out with the king from the line of David in his city. Is it cosmic army or is it just an army? I mean, it's coming from the edge of heaven's meaning from the most distant places.

Yeah, you look out on the horizon and where that sky meets the land. They're coming from out there. Yeah, from the edges of the cosmos. Yeah, when I say of the cosmos. Yeah. When I say cosmic, I'm just saying, this is cosmic poetry. We're talking about a battle that's gonna happen,

but we're using cosmic language to describe it. An army on the mountains, the kingdoms are roaring. Oh, by the way, all of these language of the horde and the uproar is language connected with the flood and the coming of a great flood. And so notice how the warriors are being described here in language that in other places if we could follow the hyperlinks, describes the coming of a great flood. So you're saying this isn't merely a poetic way to talk about an invading merely a poetic way to talk about an invading empire. This is something more than that.

Oh, I'm saying it's using cosmic poetry to describe a great battle that is, we're gonna see exactly what he's talking about in a moment, right? So what he's gonna go on to talk about is, well, he's gonna continue the cosmic language. In fact, he's gonna talk about how the stars and their constellations will go dark. The sun itself will go dark.

All the land will be held accountable for its evil, and you're like, oh, it's the end of the world. Well, for those who participate in evil, yes, yeah, I'll put an end to the arrogance of the proud and I'll bring low the hotiness of the ruthless all make humans more scarce than gold and humankind more scarce than the gold of Ophere. So what is happening here for 17? I am going to stir up the needs. That's the Persians against them. Yeah, okay Persians? Against them. Yeah. Persians. Yeah. Now, remember this is an oracle about Babylon. Oh gosh.

I totally forgot. This is about Babylon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a great tumult and final battle coming. Yeah. And there's only one mountain that's going to be safe because there's a flood happening

down in the valley. And what's the flood? Well, you find out it's the Persian armies. Yeah. From 17 on, it just describes the downfall of Babylon, which is the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Caledians pride will fall to the armies of the Meads. And verse 19, it will be like Wengad over through Sodom and Gomorrah. Okay. So it's another reckoning. It's another reckoning. Yeah.

And then it goes on to talk about how it'll never be inhabited or lived in ever again. And then it just itemizes all the scavenging creatures that will take up residence in the ruins of Babylon, like owls and ostriches, shaggy goats will live there, hyenas, jackals. Now, after Persia came and took over though Babylon, was Babylon done? Was there no city there anymore? Oh, it is interesting. The revolt ended up being not very catastrophic. In other words, it was more of a political coup that ended up happening. Okay.

But that's even more interesting. There was conflict, but it didn't destroy the city. The Persians just moved in. Yeah. They were in charge now. Yep, they're in charge now. And then later Persian cities became the capital, but the point is the cosmic rhetoric or language used to describe this. In other words, the cosmic poetry invests these historical events with cosmic heavenly meaning. So what do you mean?

What do you mean cosmic heavenly meaning? The downfall of Babylon to the Persians that happened in 539 BCs. That's when the key events took place is being described as On analogy to the flood on analogy to the downfall of Sodom and Gomorrah on analogy to the exile of Adam and Eve into the land of wild animals and dust and death and desert so it's inviting Israelites to view the events of history as a part of a bigger pattern that God is working out in history. That one humans choose Folly. Mm-hmm. And they choose violence. That it will ruin them. Yeah. And God hands humans over. And they will be undone by their own evil. Yeah, that's right.

Which will come in the form of an invading army, a flood. Yeah. In other words, the cities... A banishment. The cities that humans built because of the consequences of their own murderous evil, like in the city of Cain, actually become the punishment. So Jerusalem has become like a new Sodom and Gomorrah. So what will God do? Hand them over to a bigger batter version of Sodom and Gomorrah that is Babylon.

And then Babylon's version of Sodom and Gomorrah will engulf Jerusalem's Sodom and Gomorrah. And it's this handing over theme. Okay. The city becomes both the, it's the consequence and the punishment. So by cosmic you mean, not merely what is happening, but why it's happening. Yeah. What the prophets do is they interpret the events of Israel's history from a cosmic or heavenly perspective

from God's point of view. That's what makes it. So when you say cosmic you mean from God's point of view. That's what makes it. So when you say cosmic, you mean from a divine point of view? Yeah, it just means from cosmos, which views all of reality as an ordered whole in some way. So the point is like, well, it's not just that Yahweh was asleep, or that he's less powerful than Marduk, patron god of Babylon.

It's actually Yahweh who's behind all these cycles and for all. Yeah, but at the end of days, like there isn't end to this, at the end of days, the mountain of the house of Yahweh will become the exalted refuge for all of the nations. You come out as day two. I say a chapter two, yep.

Nations will stream to it, those will be peace. Yeah. So these become our two cities, the mountain of the nations. You can rise there too. I say a chapter too. Nations will stream to it. There's a wee piece. So these become our two cities, the mountain of the house of Yahweh that is like a Zion, and then Babylon that is destined for cosmic ruin. And the kind of these cities were historical, and they were surrounded in the events of history, but their prophetic portraits kind of rise above those ancient historical events, and they were surrounded in the events of history, but their prophetic portraits kind of rise above those ancient historical events, and they become images for the later prophets to just describe the whole history of humanity as now a tale of two cities. The city that God has purposed to build, and then the city that God will have to tear down to make way for the city that he wants to turn creation into.

And in a way, that is what the rest of the drama of Isaiah is about. So, how you doing? Is that fairly clear? Ish? Yeah, I have some questions. Okay. But, let's be clear. These are more such wonderful moments because because something it's clear to me. What I think I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. But when you have that certain look in your eyes, that's like, I, there's something that's not clear, which usually means there's something new for me to learn. Oh, I mean, I think we can keep going.

Because I think my questions turned into more like, well, I think we can keep going because I think my questions turn into more like, well, I think here's a question. We'll not answer it. What seems to be happening is the biblical story is saying, look, humans are gonna build their cities. It's not gonna work. I'm gonna have to start over. So the flood. This is the first example. Yeah, that's right. And where does Noah end up? He ends up high on a mountain. Yeah, sacrificing to God. Yeah, he's back. It's good. Makes a little temple Like a little spontaneous temple. Yeah, alter up there. Yeah, but then it lasts for like a moment

Mm-hmm, and then things just go unwind again Resulting in the building of more cities more More cities, Babylon, just like the goddess. The Syria. Yeah, and it's true. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's Genesis 10. Chapter 10. You get the story of Moses up on the mountain with God, getting the covenant, just a flash of good of this idea of the city of God may be able to be established before he comes down and there's idolatry happening. Right? You get King David bringing the tabernacle up and in that story, they're like blowing it. Yeah. Someone has to die. Yeah. And David. Had to die. Somebody ended up dying. Well, similarly, and David's kingdom gets split into immediately. Yeah.

Right? And so you get this hope of the prophets of like, but there's gonna be a time, we're gonna get back to the mountain. Well, we've been there before. Yeah, totally. How do we get there and stay there? Yeah, right?

Yeah. That's the question. And it feels like there's been no point in history we've been there for more than like a fraction of a second. Yeah. Right? And so like, there's all this hope of it happening, but like, it's like we're holding onto that fraction of a second and going, we can have eternity there in that fraction of a second. Yeah, it's good.

It's like the story teaches you to have a really sober realism. Some might call it pessimism about human's ability to build the city of God, the heavenly city here on earth. And I think that is part of what the biblical authors are trying to do inside of us. But also not make us doubt or lose hope that God can bring about a new creation right here in the middle of our world outside of Eden. But it does make me doubt and listen to them. Yeah, well, I hear that. I'm with you.

And the prophets just hold both of this, both of those in front of us. Like here we are building our Babylon's and Yahweh will hand as many over to self-reund as we want to build. But he will maintain his promise to take the story ultimately towards a new Jerusalem that will come down out of his realm, a city not made by hands.

And in the meantime, what we, well, I'm getting ahead of us because I'm getting to the next episode. But what Isaiah wants to do is hold out the hope primarily. Yeah. Yeah. Which I guess there's so much we could do in Isaiah, but there's one ultimate new Jerusalem poem that we've got to read. Okay. We call it Isaiah chapter 60. Okay. And all of the many themes of Isaiah scroll come together. So you're right. I mean, I want to name the tension that you're feeling. And it's exactly the tension.

I think the drives, the passion of the prophets. It's both, yeah, this pessimism. And just radical, unslagging hope in the purpose of God to bring about new creation. The phrase new creation comes from the scroll of the prophet Isaiah. I will bring about a new heavens and a new earth. Which is different than talking about a new city, or is it?

Well, actually, what he says is I will bring about a new earth. Which is different than talking about a new city, or is it? Well, actually, what he says is that I will bring about a new Jerusalem. Actually, here's a look at a couple of the new Jerusalem poems in the next conversation. Okay. So, it's the perfect teah to what Jesus was doing when he announced the arrival of the Kingdom of God. But I think for now, it's just good to sit in these really realistic and hopeful portraits that are... Realistic yet hopeful. Realistic yet hopeful.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a healthy place to live. I think something like what Jesus is talking about in the Cermin on the Mount for those who hunger and thirst to see righteousness done in the world, for they will be satisfied. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst. They want to see a world set right, with people right with God, right with neighbor, and they don't see it, but they desire it. And Jesus says that desire will be satisfied, maybe not in the way or timing that they

would prefer, but that's, I think, to sit in this story and view the world through its lens, I think. You're saying that's interesting. Hunger and thirst for righteousness. And I've heard you make the sentiment before. Being hungry and thirsty is not a great experience. No. In fact, we regularly tried to end that experience multiple times a day. Yes. That's like the a full time today. Yes, that's like the, yeah, the, the continual quest every day. It's not have that experience. Yeah. And you're saying my tension is like,

you're saying is that the same frustration or anxiety or dismay of like being hungry. Yeah. And this of like, we're not gonna be able to do it. Like cities are just gonna destroy us as we build them and just multiply our evil. And there's maybe a moment, like a hot second that we can like celebrate,

but then it'll go away in a flash. And you're saying that's how being hungry. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's right. And Jesus has this optimism where he goes, you're hungry? All right. You're going to be filled. Yeah.

You'll be filled. Or like he says to the Samaritan woman, or to the people when he gives them the lives of bread, isn't gospel of John. You know, he says, you come to me because you were hungry and I gave you bread. And now you're hungry again. But I've got some bread to give you that will last to life onto the age. And that's the equivalent of what Isaiah is talking about here. There's just the cities of ruin, and then there's the city that is not made by

human hands. And that's what we'll look at in the next episode. So hey, this is Dan Cuml with the podcast team and it's early morning. My voice is even lower than it usually is, I think. I'm here with the friend of mine. We're doing another employee introduction. So Joel, you want to introduce yourself? Yeah, my name is Joel Whirl. I'm the Chief Product Officer for Bible Project.

Yeah, tell me a little about what that actually means. Yeah, a lot of people know like our videos, obviously the podcast, all their we're making classes, but all those things are running on top of technology platforms and I get the privilege of being accountable for leading engineers and product designers and product managers that are all a part of building things like our website, classroom, our app, and then a lot of the infrastructure that makes it possible for us to deliver all those things. You have a degree, you have some sort of a fancy degree.

I've been to Green Heaper Bible, so. It's such an interesting situation you got there. Oh yeah, totally. And actually, the guy who I studied with focused on literary structure of the Heaper Bible, so it's really awesome to get a chance to do work that touches all the nerd parts of who I am. You're coding in structures of... We're building tools that help us represent literary structure, especially for classroom. We just launched a classroom in the app and the audiences are responding to it like incredibly well.

Speaking of our listeners, is there anything you want to say right now? Well, firstly, just thanks for being a part of this with us. It's providing an opportunity for us to use technology to help more people experience the Bible's unified story that leads to Jesus. And then the other thing I'd say, I'm going to say on behalf of everybody else, thanks to the podcast team for everything they do to make this thing happen. I mean, I'm somebody who listens to podcasts. Thanks, man. Tell me a little bit about your life outside of work. So I live in Mechanics for the Pennsylvania with my wife, Cree.

She's a discipleship pastor at our church campus, and then I got two kids, Eleana and Adelaide, both girls, 11 and 10 right now. We're real engaged with stuff at our church. We go to this multi-site church called LCBC Lideschanged by Craison. For someone who has such a diverse skill set, I'd love to know what your first job was. On my first job, I worked at a grocery store

and I grew up in a town of like 300 people in Northwestern Pennsylvania. And it's like tar paper floor. I shoveled snow for the post office. Man, it was a full time job. Yeah, it was a lot. Well, I love if you'd read the credits right there. Okay, so today's show came from our podcast team, including producer Cooper Peltz and associate producer Lindsay Ponder.

Our lead editor is Dan Gummel. Additional editors are Tyler Bailey and Frank Garza. Tyler Bailey, aka Tyler the Creator, also makes this episode and Hannah Wu did our annotations for the Bible project out. You know a little bit about that. Oh yeah I do, yeah. The annotations are like best. Yeah they're off the chain now.

Bible project is a crowdfunded nonprofit. Everything we make is free because of your generous support. Thank you so much for being a part of this with us. That's great. Yeah, awesome. You're natural. Thanks, man. you