BibleProject - Jonah Q + R

Episode Date: November 6, 2017

This is our final episode in our Youtube Q+R Series. In this episode, Tim and Jon respond to questions on the Old Testament book of Jonah. Below are the questions and time marks they appear. You can view the original video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLIabZc0O4c&t=1s&list=PLH0Szn1yYNeeVFodkI9J_WEATHQCwRZ0u&index=21 Want to learn more about the ancient empire of Assyria and how it impacted the Bible? Tim references the "Lachish Carvings" in the podcast, check out more info here! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachish_reliefs Thank you to all our supporters! Learn more about what we're up to and sign up to receive more free resources from us at: www.thebibleproject.com Jonah Overview - 0-6:30 Is Jonah a real person or a parable? (6:30) If God is interested in choosing upright people to work with, why would God choose Jonah, who doesn’t seem to be an upright man? (16:10) Why is Jonah so angry about God showing compassion on Nineveh? (20:00) Why do we think Jonah’s five word sermon in Jonah 4 is the whole thing? How do we know the rest wasn’t lost? (28:45) How do you know that Jonah is “angry” with God? (32:55) What happened between the book of Jonah and Nahum? Was the Nineveh's repentance a fluke? (36:43) What is Jesus talking about in Matthew 12 and the sign of Jonah? (39:35) How does Jonah describe God’s character and how does that compare to how Job describes God’s character? (44:25) Show Resources: Lachish Carvings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachish_reliefs Show Music: Defender Instrumental by Rosasharn Music. Show Produced by: Jon Collins and Dan Gummel

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it in. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

Hi, this is John at the Bible Project. This week on the podcast, we're releasing a series of question and responses that Tim and I did on the book of Jonah. Likely you've heard the story of Jonah, the reluctant prophet, swallowed by a large fish and sent to the city of his enemies to help them find salvation in the love of God. It's a remarkable story and it has a surprising ending. Tim and I discussed this book and we answer questions from you. Such as, is Jonah a real person or is this a parable? Why did God choose Jonah?

And why did Jesus talk about Jonah in Matthew 12 in relation to his death and resurrection. We'll look at those questions and more. Here we go. I think many people are introduced to this short book of the Bible, in a really white, washed, watered-down form of a children's story. And Jonah's a perfect example of what you, your expectations, what you think you're gonna get out of something determines what it is you'll get out of it.

And I think most of people come to the book of Jonah, thinking they're gonna get out of it some moral message that's about as profound as a children's book. And unfortunately, that is just a really shallow, under reading of the book. And usually I have three children's books at home. I collect them on Jonah, no, because I'm so fascinated.

But the fourth chapter, I have three versions of Jonah in children's book at home. And two of those three simply omit the last chapter. They don't even include the last chapter. Oh yeah, in the children's book. Yes, the whole book's about evil people repenting and finding God's name. And Jonah having done that.

And Jonah's the hero for getting the back of his life. But if you do the last chapter, then the kids are gonna be like, wait a second. Yeah, yeah, the last chapter's too sophisticated for toddlers apparently. So anyway, all that to say, the book of Jonah is the work of literary ninjas. It's incredibly sophisticated story.

And most people aren't aware of just how profound and subtle and brilliant this short story actually is. So what we begin with, I'll just do a quick overview. The story, it's a short story. It's one of the few other than like Ruth kind of Esther examples of the short story in the Old Testament. And it's told in four scenes that are brilliantly crafted. There's all of this symmetry

impairing between the two. But the first is about John who being sent to the worst, most murderous pagan city and empire in the ancient world. He refuses and ends up going to get on a boat to run away from God. And as it turns out, his rebellion brings disaster on himself and other people. And so once he becomes identified as the source of the problem, the sailors repent and Jonah ask to get thrown overboard. Then he gets swallowed by a huge fish in any story that you would read when somebody gets thrown overboard

in a storm. You think it's over formed? Yes. And then if they get swallowed by a gigantic fish, this story's over. So then the twist, and this is what most of the children's books focus on, because you know it's focus on, because it's awesome. You know, because it's awesome, it's crazy.

It's such a bizarre image of a man being swallowed by a fish and then, you know, composing a beautiful poem, cramped in the belly of a monster, which is very bizarre. And he kind of says he's sorry, but not really. But he says that he is going to follow God now. And the response of God, to Jonah's prayer, is that the fish vomits Jonah onto the land. The Hebrew word for vomit is ka. Ka. It says like a like a cough than a vomit.

Ka. Oh, it's more like ka. Ka. Ka. You get it. Clear. So he gets vomited on to dry land. Then he goes to Nineveh. He preaches a very odd sermon. And beyond all belief, the king, the people, and even the cows are brought in on a huge act of repentance. This makes last chapter Jonah so angry he wants to die. And then he goes outside the city and there's this odd series of events with a vine that grows up over him and then a worm that eats it and then he wants to die again. He's having this debate with God. He choose God out for being

way too nice, being too merciful and forgiving. He says the reason I didn't want to go to Nanda Banda first place is because I knew you would forgive my enemies. And God says, wait, can't I have compassion on people if that's what I choose to do and their cows. And then the book ends with the word cows. Yep, and that's the secret to the whole world. So that's the story. It's contained within a larger work called the Book of the Twelve Profits. It's the only book among all the Hebrew prophets that is only narrative.

All of the other books are the prophets, the Old Testament, are collections of the words of that prophet, and sometimes telling a story about them. But only Jonah is complete story from beginning to end. And only Jonah is a really horrible, rebellious prophet who consistently just doesn't like the God that he is supposed to be serving. So this book is unique in its purpose, its style, how it goes about, making its point, it he said, so you said

it's a unique book, right? It's a story about a prophet instead of a prophecy, so what you just said. Do you think that Jonah of this story was a real person or is he like one of Jesus' parables? Right, well that's good. And I think a lot of people are asking this question. That numerous characters. Questions. Someone just asked in the life he is this, a parable that this really happened.

Yeah. And then, yeah. Simian also asked, well respected Christian writers such as C.S. Lewis, held doubts about the historical truth of the book of Jonah. What do we know about the historicity of this book and how does it fit into the overarching storyline of scriptures?

So this book is, I mean there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens in the Bible that makes you go like, whoa did that really happen? Yes. But this in particular I think for people being swallowed by a whale, fish. Or a fish. Yeah, not a whale. It's actually never called a whale. A large fish.

A big fish. Being swallowed by a big fish, surviving, is pretty strange. We've never heard of that before. But there's a lot of things in the Bible that happen. And we're okay with that. But is there something specific about the book of Jonah that does set it apart as being more satirical or more of a parable or what are your thoughts on it? So here's a part of this is something of a hot topic.

And sometimes even what somebody thinks about the book of Jonah, literal or metaphorical, in some circles is like this litmus test of whether or not you're a true Christian, or something, whether you believe in miracles. So let's just say that up front. John and I are both followers of Jesus, and my whole worldview is built on the belief that Jesus was raised from the dead, which is a very hard thing to believe. Which is stranger than surviving a whale. That's much stranger than surviving.

Oh, fish. Right, a fish. Yeah, totally. So, compared to, you know, the recreation of Jesus into a new physical form in the resurrection of the dead, that is way more off the charts than the guy getting swallowed and surviving from the fish. So all that to say is this has nothing to do with whether or not you believe in miracles.

I don't think. What the question what we're asking is, what did the author intent? And what kind of book does the author want us to read it as? This is a question about what clues has the author given us. One thing we do, this isn't the only mention of Jonah in the Old Testament. So we know that Jonah was a figure in Israelite history, because he's mentioned one other time in the Old Testament. We talk about that at the beginning of the video.

He's mentioned one other time. It's a very short cameo. It's truly a cameo. It's truly a cameo. It would be a cameo. Yeah, because he's such a popular prophet. Yeah, exactly. And he shows up. So it's one of Israel's worst model.

He's prophesying that a really bad idolatrous king of Israel is going to win a battle. So that, and it's just presented as he's a prophet, he said it would happen. But as a reader of that story, you don't like Jerobon. And the only thing you know about Jonah is Jonah prophesied in favor of this guy. And that's all you know.

You read on into the rest of the Bible, and you come to a passage in the book of Amos who was just right after Jonas period and he prophesies about Jerobo and the second two as well and he Specifically says the territory that Jonas he doesn't mention Jonah, but he mentions the exact territory The Jerobo on one in that battle. he's going to lose because he's such an unjust idolatrous king. So that sets the stage for us to come to the book of Jenna and be like, yeah, I don't know.

We're suspicious of Jenna. I don't know about this guy. Or at least to just say, the only thing we know is that he made a prophecy that seemed like a genuine prophecy, but that got reverted by Amos. That's all we know. If there was a prophet, we wanted to pick to represent Israel's national God in country, kind of mindset. God is always for us and always against our enemies. The Jonah is the guy to represent that. So then the question comes. So he's not a parabolic figure. Jonah is a figure of history. So then the question is, is this a series of events at Jonah experienced, and then he passed on the accounts of that experience.

And he himself composed the book. It would seem an odd book for Jonah himself to compose, since he is the butt of the book's feet. I mean, literally, and metaphorically, he's a buttead in the book. He's a jerk. So it seems odd that someone would compose this kind of book about themselves, because it paints him as such a horrible person.

But it's possible that he preserved the tradition and the stories about his account and passed them on. It's also possible that an author has composed a parable-like account, a fictional account, and has given clues within the story that we are meant to read this as a parable about, or based on inspired by a historical figure. In my view, either of those interpretations is consistent with an Orthodox view of the Bible as God's word. If the author wants to write a parable, he could.

Under the Holy Spirit's guidance, he can do so. It's not important to take a stand either way. Yeah, I think either, and there are people who hold that the book is satire and very literally sophisticated. Who hold that it has origins and historical events? And that hold that it's parable. There's pros and cons foreign against, you know, I've made a big list.

I did a, I did a, over a month long sermon series on the book of Jonah, that door of hope, you can find them all on my website at tomackey.com. And the whole first message that I go into this question in even more detail. And I think for some people, it's very sensitive because, well, if you're not gonna take this literally, and what else are you not gonna take literally?

And there's this like slippery slope of, well, then the Bible, and none of the stories can be trusted, and can you even trust the stories of the gospel. I'm very sensitive to that, and I think we wanna make sure that when you read the Bible, you take it very seriously.

And as God's word. Yes. But the question is, an author has chosen a certain literary vehicle or mode to communicate to a reader, and just because something is narrative in form, do I assume that this author is writing in a historical narrative? And we know that that's not always the case, because Jesus told narratives that he meant to be fictional. He called them parables.

Yeah. So Jesus told lots of stories that were fictional parables. Yeah. The challenge for this one is that it names a historical figure. Yeah. So I think the clue always is, what kind of literature does the author intend for us to take this as and what are the clues within it. So the gospel authors, for example, or the authors of the Book of Kings or Samuel, it's

very clear they put in dates and they put in contemporary historical events. They want you to take these events as historical events. The Book of Joan is peculiar because it names a historical person, but there's no other historical detail in the book. Like the King of Nineveh, there's really only about two or three Assyrian kings, it could be referring to, but they're not given any names. It's as if all the historical details of the story have been kind of generalized so that the book can speak to any audience in any place. So regardless of whether you believe that this happened or not, it shouldn't destroy your

view of the Bible or you faith in Jesus. It's not something to fight about. I really like if people want to take one or the other. But also, but make sure no matter what you believe about that, to read it in the way it was intended to be read. With a message. A theological message. And you don't lose that message. You have to. Whatever view you have, the book has a theological message that it wants to. And unfortunately, people get fixated on the fish or fixated on the historical question.

And then they never actually read the message that's coming from the book, which is the whole point, is to let the book mess with you. Dive back into questions. We're going to do one from... Nicole G. Nicole G. Nicole G. Nicole G. You say, I would expect God to choose upright God-fearing people to be His prophets. And yet God chose Jonah, a man who appears to be neither.

Is there anything we should learn from this? Yes. And yes., and yes. That is what we would expect. That's exactly what we would expect. And what you find starting, man, from the first book of the Bible, is God consistently chooses extremely flawed people to carry out his purposes. And some more flawed than others, you know, like Abraham, decent guy, you know, he gets it right. When he gets it right, he really gets it right, but dude, when he gets it wrong, you know,

he gives his wife away two different times. So he really gets it wrong. You have Samson? I mean, he's a... Sheesh. He's a bad wrong. You have Samson. I mean, he is a... Sheesh. He's a bad man. Samson is not a good man. A lot of the judges.

Jeff Thug. So, and in terms of prophets, so you're asking about prophets. This was a challenge in Israel where Israel and the kings had a difficult time discerning who were the true prophets who spoke on God's behalf. Jeremiah talks about this, Micah talks about this. So there were lots of prophets who said they were speaking on God's behalf, but actually they weren't truly representing the covenant, God of Israel. And so Jonah occupies the strange space in between where the word of the Lord comes to him, but we're kind of suspicious of him, and then his character shows that he's not a good man at all.

But the point, actually, of the book of Jonah is about this tendency that tends to happen in the hearts and minds of God's people, is once God's people see themselves as a unique group who have received God's mercy, they're very quickly forms after that in arrogance, a hostility towards the non-chosen ones, And that's exactly what the Book of Jonah is critiquing. So the Book of Jonah is actually critiquing a mindset that happens among God's own covenant people, and Jonah becomes the target of the critique. Yeah, don't be like this guy. So the point of Jonah is not to get us to think, oh, can John, can God speak through and use a really bad person?

Yeah, he does, so a lot in the Bible. Another example that would be, Bailem, right? Bailem, yeah, who's not a Israelite? He wasn't a Israelite. That's right. He was, who knows, like, how gnarly the duty was or not. Yeah.

But he wasn't following God or fearing God. Yes. And he would then prophesy it on God's death. But he's not like the prophets of the prophetic books in the Bible. Correct. So this is unique. Jonah is one of the... So this is something that I mentioned at the beginning of the video is that the story

presents a caricature of all the key characters. So you've got the prophet who does the exact opposite of everything a prophet ought to do. And it's actually the non-Israelites, the sailors and the kings who do exactly respond exactly appropriately to God. And it's that comic contrast between the two that were the message of the book lies, I think. Yeah, so good question, Nicole. It raises what's going on at the heart of the book. Should we do this one by Jess Wise?

Yeah, Jess Wise. Jess Wise words. Yep. That's not your real name. Maybe Jess Wise is. But maybe Jess Wise is. Jessica Wiseman? Jessica Wise, we don't know. So you wrote, why is Jonah so angry at the fact that God had compassion over the city of Ninova? He himself experienced God's compassion when he saved him from dying in the big fish, which yeah, I mean that just happened. After Jonah had fled from him. So Jonah, he knows that God's compassion and he stoked that God's compassionate towards him in the fish, but also his people, Israel, he's stoked that God's compassionate.

So why has he got this thing against Nineveh? Yeah, what is... What's this? Yeah. So the book of Jonah assumes you know some things about Nineveh, and the things you would have learned from reading the books of first and second kings. So to conjure up the emotions that in Israelite would feel when they heard the words Nineveh or the Assyrians, it's the same emotions that happen when we talk about the Nazis in

the modern world. Whoa. That's strong. Yes. The Assyrians, they weren't the first ancient Near Eastern empire, but they were the second. And they were the most militarized, violent, conquest empire that the ancient world had ever seen

on the largest scale. So, and their warfare policies are still today like people are just holy cow. Disturbing. Yeah, very disturbing. They built their empire by sending out large armies. They would conquer a city and impale people, pile up their heads on the walls, skin people alive, and then they would deport all the people of a city and take them to another place, and it was horrifying what the Ninevites were known for. And the Assyrians did this very thing to many Israelite cities.

We actually have fascinating it's fascinating. You guys should Google the Lockheesh Reliefs. Have I ever shown these to you before? Oh, so amazing. How do you? Lockheesh, L-A-C-H-I-S-H. And then, there you go. It's first thing you Google.

So the city of Nineveh, which is a modern-day Mosul, was the capital city, when they began excavating the ancient palace, they found all of these wall carvings that were all about the exploits of the kings of Nineveh. And the Lachiche relief is a long series of carvings that retells the story of the Syrian armies conquering an Israelite city of Lacheesh. The story is told in the Bible and the depiction, if you just search through the images here, there are pictures of Israelite getting impaled, there's a picture of an

Israelite getting his skin peeled off with a knife outside in view of the city walls, there's siege walls and all this, just absolutely horrifying. A lot of archers. A lot of archers. It's really, it's really amazing. But so here's the point, is that as a Israelite reader, an ancient Israelite reader would also sympathize with Jonas Hatred for the Ninevites. Yeah. You sympathize with Jonas. So when Jonas runs, you're kind of like, yeah, good on him. Yeah, yeah, you're kind of like, yeah, good on him. Yeah, yeah, you're kind of like, yeah, I get it.

I get it. You're like, good, I didn't know. I hope he wouldn't go and do that. Yes, totally. I come to my house, I'll keep you here. The Jonah's hatred for the Ninevites is realistic and it would have touched a nerve with Israelite readers. But at the same time, it raises attention in the biblical story

itself. The bigger biblical story is that from the very beginning, the story of Abraham, God's purpose is to bring his blessing and salvation to all the nations through Israel. Which puts Israel in a really awkward situation when the nations that God wants to bless and offer, offer the baddest dudes in town. Are your enemies? And so that's what this book is exploring here is that paradox that God's people find themselves in when you have been the one to receive God's mercy, but then you have an enemy and you're struggling with the fact that God loves your enemy as much as he loves you. And he wants your enemy to find the same mercy that you've discovered, and that's a very

difficult thing to work through individually, much less on a corporate level. So to answer your first question, Nicole, that's why. So to personalize this book, it would be a helpful exercise when you read. This is just this question. Sorry, that's just this question. Go ahead. To personalize this book, when you read it,

pretend that Jonas being called to that person or people group, you hate the most. Correct. So whoever that is, put that person in your mind or that group of people in your mind, and then that's who Jonah is going to, to get them to repent. You'd have to not like them so much,

you don't even want them to find the grace of God. Correct. That group of people. That's right. And that's kind of, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a little convicting that the fact that we, we all probably have those kind of people in our hearts and this, we still need this book. We have, that's right.

And it's, it's important that the book doesn't just treat it as like the guy who stole Jonas Goat or something like on a personal level. Oh right, yeah. It's very political and ethnic and geopolitical. A long, long hatred of people groups. I mean, so the books raise a such a sensitive topic. It would be the equivalent of, you know, right now, the enemy of much of the free West as a group called ISIS.

So the point about challenge of ISIS is where they were their headquarters. But so there's a battle in Fulugia going on right now. So it would be about a group of Christian missionaries who actually instead of wanting the leaders of ISIS to be destroyed in that battle to go share the good news about Jesus with them in hopes that they find God's mercy. And the point of the book of Jonah is that we should want them. If I have any kind of check in my heart about no way, they deserve God's justice. Then the book of Jonah is going to say, what's underneath that? Why do you feel that way?

Why do you think that you are in a privileged position to receive God's mercy, but somebody else is not in that same position? That's what the book's trying to get at. Very powerful. That's perfect. So, just where John defines himself is in a very hypocritical position by the end of the book, because you're right, the only reason he is alive by the end of the book is because of God's mercy, and the thing that he's angry about by the end of the book is God's mercy. So it's exposing him as self deceived on a deep, deep level. And of course, and the reason why this book is so brilliant is because by the end of the book, you as a reader feel superior to Jonah. You're like, oh, this idiot. I would never act like that.

The winds you over. Yeah, winds you over to be like, yeah, look at this idiot. He's such a hypocrite and this kind of thing. And then the way the book ends, you realize the author is not smiling at you anymore. He's actually punching you in the gut because he's trying to expose what's inside of you. Literary ninja. Literary ninja. Ben.

Hey, does Hebrew have a word for whale? Some people are asking. Is that why it's big fish? Because there's just no word for whale. There are no whales in biblical Hebrew. Just big fish. Fish, chick fish. Yes.

Dog. Modern Hebrew has word. The word is dog in Hebrew. Dog. Well, that's confusing. It's a whale. Yeah. A big fish. Wh in Hebrew. Dog. Well, that's confusing. It's a whale. Yeah. A big fish.

Whale shark. OK. Cool. So next question, what do you think about? I'm not sure. Did you already ask? Sure. Yeah, sure.

So five word sermon here. Here we go. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's another from Andrew. That's fine. Andrew, send a bunch in, I think. Oh, yeah. Jonas, five word sermon. Yeah, That's fine. Andrew, send a bunch in, I think. Oh, yeah. Jonas, five word sermon.

Yeah, why do we think it was just a five word sermon? And that wasn't just like a summary, basically. Couldn't it be like all Jesus' message in the synagogue in Luke 4 where we only have the beginning? So maybe he gave a really great sermon. Yeah. And that was just the first five words. Yeah, no, that's a good point.

When people's speeches are represented in the Bible. They are certainly summaries. Even the long speeches in the book of Acts, when Peter gets up to Pentecost and he gives a long speech. But if you read it, you know, it doesn't actually take about two minutes to read out loud. And surely he spoke longer about two minutes to read out loud. And surely he spoke longer. Two minutes. So yeah, what we're dealing with is a literary representation

of Jonas' message. But that's all we have. So what you have to face, all the same, is that the author is representing Jonas' core message. And Jonas' core message is short. Jonah's core message doesn't mention God. It doesn't mention what... It doesn't mention any of the normal things that the prophets did to people they preached at. Here's what you're doing wrong. Here's how you're breaking God's law.

Here's how you need to respond to it. Here's the warning of what will happen, and here's what will happen if you repent. That's like a standard prophetic sermon. And if it was a summary, it would have summarized those points. Yeah. So the representation of Jonah's message is, you guys are going to be destroyed, the clock's ticking. Yeah, good luck. That's it. Yeah. So it raises the question of, is Jonah intentionally not saying what God is going to destroy you, or why, and doesn't give any avenue for repentance or response?

And I think this story is so sophisticated, I do think it's intentional. It's presenting Jonah as being a minimalist, because we already know he doesn't want these people to find God's mercy. We already know he was willing to die, to give up his own life so that he wouldn't have to go to Nineveh. When he asked to be thrown off the boat in chapter one, he's not because he's noble. I mean, why else do you get asked to be thrown out

of a boat in the middle of a storm? It's because you want to die. And so he really, really, doesn't want to go to Nineveh. And he really doesn't want these people to run out. It's mercy. So it was actually Ray Lubek, our first professor. He wrote a whole essay. You can Google it.

Ray Lubek is a whole academic article wondering, asking the question, is Joan's message intentional prophetic sabotage, like his term, not mine? And I think there's every reason that this author's painting the story to say yes. I mean, just imagine, yeah, you finally, you've been trying not to go there. Yeah. You've even jumped out of a boat in the middle of a storm. Like, you're like doing everything you can,

and then find your there. He's resigned to this thing. He's resigned himself. OK, I'll go. And he shows up, and he's like, all right, your guys are going to be destroyed. That's like not a very, I don't think he really changed his heart about these guys.

I don't think so at all. So I think that's the point. Which is why we depicted Jonah is going to none of them, but why are you doing that? So we're really beaten up on Jonah here. Yes. And I think a lot of people, that's hard for them because they've read a lot of children's books

where Jonah's the hero, a lot of Sunday school lessons, and Jonah's kind of this dear figure, and also he's a prophet in the Bible, so aren't they all good guys? So a lot of people get I think a little tense around how much we beat up Jonah in this. And then someone just wrote in the live stream, this is Yerla Yury Alonzo, 94. Tim, from what verse do you interpret that Jonah hated God? In Spanish it translates as displeased or deeply saddened. So yeah, you say this is a prophet who hated God.

And that's a strong word, hate. Do you want to back off that word at all? Like what's, where do you get that? Yeah, that's good. It's an interpretive decision that I'm making. But it's all about chapter four. The reason children's books leave out chapter four on a regular basis is because the portrait of Jonah,

and what it says about Jonah's character, is so harsh, and so disturbing that it's easier to not account for it. So what it says is when Jonah saw that God forgave Nineveh, literally in Hebrew, is it was Rab-e-Nah, it was evil in his eyes. For God to forgive Nineveh is evil to Jonah. for God to forgive Nineveh is evil to Jonah. And it's the classic words from Genesis 1, the knowledge of good and evil. So Jonah's estimation of a God who would forgive the Ninevites is that God is evil. So you know, and that's the language that the author uses. So I don't know, is the leap too far from there to say that God, the Jonah hates his God? But you're right, I'm the one using the word hate.

But what else could it mean for the author to say that Jonah thought God was evil? And doing evil to forgive him? Maybe what it is is that Jonah likes God, and he likes the fact that God saves him and he likes that God loves Israel. So he likes maybe a version of God, but he doesn't like this God he's encountering. Correct.

Yes, that's the whole point. That's the whole point. Yes, he would much prefer a God. He very much doesn't like strongly this likes. In fact, you may even say, hates. Yeah. Possibly. Yeah. That God that he's encountering. Yeah. He also no longer wants to live with this kind of God in his life. God tries to work

with him two times. Is your anger justified? You know, can't I show compassion on people? And Jonah shuts down. And all he wants God to do is kill him. So it's an interpretive move of sorts? It is, that's right. But I don't think it's the illegitimate one, I think. So here we just have to deal with the fact that the Bible doesn't portray all of its main characters as heroes, just the opposite. Some of them are flawed heroes, and some of them are anti-heroes, and some of them are just not good people

at all. And I think Jonah chapter four is portraying Jonah in the worst light possible. And it's part of the book's character. It's part of its literary style to get you to think that you were better than him so that you can receive the punch in the gut by the time the book finishes.

Because Jonah never answers God's question. I mean, what else could a book mean that ends with God asking the main character a question? And that question unlock the whole meaning of the book. And then the book ends without any answer to that question. Maybe we think it's a fun. You guys think it's a fun. Unlock the whole meeting of the book, and then the book ends without any answer to that question. Maybe we're supposed to answer that. And it's, yeah, exactly. The purpose of the book is not about Jonah, it's about you, you, the reader.

Okay. The book of Jonah is so amazing. How brilliant is this book? We've got to get to Jesus. Yes, yes. But let's do one question before Jesus. Good. This is Everett's choice. Mm-hmm. This is from really bad puppets. One question before Jesus, this is Everett's choice. This is from really bad puppets, which is because you had a really bad puppet show.

Oh yeah. But you know what, maybe it's not bad. Let us decide. What changed between Jonah and Nehem? Was the Assyrian repentance story a fluke or a temporary thing? So basically at some point, a series of Nineveh goes back to their ways.

So what would it be? Yeah, this is another puzzle. You have to factor this into the discussion about is the book of parable or historical narrative. Did the author intend it as parable? Because the repentance of the Ninevites, it doesn't stick. If you interpret it as historical narrative, it doesn't stick. Because the Ninevites continued on this kind of rampage afterwards, so much so

that there's a whole book of the Bible, Nehum, dedicated to announcing the downfall, God, orchestrating the downfall of Nineveh and Assyrians. So how do you account for that? So like commentary is great, great commentary by Doug Stewart, again in Doug Stewart, a great Old Testament scholar. He is persuaded that the book's historical narrative. And what he thinks is that the book, historically, what happened is he conjectures that the king of Nine of the Sossum Omen in the sky, he's as polytheist as any other ancient king, and he sees Jonah

representing a deity, something happened that convinced him to repent and pay homage to this God. But the moment this king passed from the scene, then the kings of Nineveh went on doing what they were doing. So historically, it's plausible. We can make up a scenario. But what's interesting to me was that the author doesn't, for the author, the Ninevites have become just a caricature

or an archetype of pagan Israelite violent heathens Who respond to God's mercy more than God's people do? So even Doug Stewart recognizes the portrait of the Ninevites in Jonah has been Yeah, there's a purpose of it more even if it was historical. Yeah, there's a purpose of it more, even if it was historical. There's a purpose of this story. Which is why the King of Assyria is never named. That's intentional, because the point isn't about this is only true of the King of Assyria. The point is that Nineveh in the story represents all of the Gentile nations before God. So yeah, one way or another,

none of the, they repent of their repentance. Okay, so we got to get to Jesus. We only have ten minutes left. Okay, also people can get really distracted by the Poke Ball back there, which I didn't even know about. I don't know when that happened. Yes. And Pokemon, that's everywhere. Yeah. It's getting crazy. OK, so. Jesus. Yeah. Jesus talks about Jonah.

Yep. And he, Yee Shurn, asked a question, where he said, what is Jesus depicting when he said, an evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the Prophet Jonah. This is Matthew chapter 12. Yes, dude, the sign of Jonah.

It's a sign of Jonah. And it's set this up a little bit more, context around this. Why were they asking for a sign? Yes, so Matthew chapter 12, Jesus has been announcing the Kingdom of God for many chapters now. And in Matthew 11, Matthew starts compiling all the stories of the religious leaders of Israel and Jerusalem opposing Jesus. But Jesus is attracting all of these Israelite and non-Israelite followers.

That's an important part of the story. And it's making the Israelite leaders reject Jesus. And so when they say, prove to us who you are, give us a sign by which they mean a miraculous sign. Some sort of proof. Yeah, some sort of proof. Yeah, some sort of proof. He first of all says, listen, the Queen of Shiba and the Ninevites,

you know, they turned back to God at Jonah and the King of Queen of Shiba, she came to Solomon. So Jesus first retells stories of all these non-Israelites who discovered the God of Israel and turned to him. And then he mentions the fact that Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of this fish. Which in Jonah's poem, he described being in the fish as being in the grave.

He uses the language in the grave. He uses the language of the grave. Sheol. Yeah. Which was another question. Yes. Did he, someone asked, did he go to the underworld, sheol, but that's just a Hebrew word for grave. The grave, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Jonas describes being in the fish's belly as being in the grave and wouldn't you too. Yeah. It's not like he thinks he's, yeah. Totally. Yeah, he's gonna die. if you get swallowed by a fish you're disgusting you're gonna die yeah absolutely disgusting so so Jesus actually seems to draw two

things out of the story of Jonah one is it's a story of how the people you would never expect are discovering God's mercy like the audience of his disciples. And that drives the Israelite leaders crazy. But then he draws out of the vehicle. Jonah also, how does he get to Nineveh and announce God's word to Nineveh? It's through this strange watery grave in which he spends three days and three nights. And Jesus uses it as this cryptic, nobody gets it in the moment, a cryptic illusion to his death, that he too is a prophet speaking to Israel, and he's not going to perform some magic miracle to get them to believe.

He says, you're rejecting me? That's fine. So here's the only sign you're gonna get. You're gonna kill me and I'm gonna let you. And he's gonna undergo his own experience of death and resurrection and only then will they see and realize that he was a true prophet. So I don't think Jesus is saying the book of Jonah is itself predictive prophecy. I think Jesus is using a story that was subversive and challenging in the Old Testament. And he uses the image as a type or a metaphor to point to his actual death and resurrection from the grave. Isn't it similar to when Jesus goes to the temple

and overturns everything, and then they say, hey, what are you doing? And they're like, show us some sort of sign that you have the authority to do this. And he won't do it. Jesus refuses to jump, do stupid things. But he does tell them, well, tear down this temple and I'll rebuild in three days.

Yes, that's your sign. That's your sign. That's your sign. Yes, you're going to kill me. Yes, so it's the same sign. I'm going to be dead for three days and I'm going to come back. If you want some crazy miraculous proof that what I'm doing is legit. That's the analogy, yeah. That's what you're going to get.

And it's a metaphor. It's tear down this temple, which he's talking about his body, but he uses the metaphor of the temple as a symbol. Saying that he is a temple. So I think it's very similar to what he's doing, the sign of Jonah. The sign of Jonah. Yeah, good question.

Very cool. Do you have... I think this guy, so Wendy and this guy Luke, they're really anxious for you to answer a question. I'm trying to figure out, I think it's this one. You guys could tell me it's wrong. Can Tim comment on the difference between Jonah's explanation of God's character and Job

and Jonah's explanation and elsewhere in the Old Testament? I don't even think I understand the question. Well, is that the question, guys? Wendy? Jonah's explanation of God's character to being a name of chapter four. Yeah. What about it? And the difference between that and elsewhere in the Old Testament.

So is God's character described differently elsewhere? No. Actually, that's the brilliance. Is that Jonah is quoting from God's self-description in the book of Exodus. Actually, this is great. This is why this is so brilliant, ironic. Jonah's quoting from how God describes himself, the Lord the Lord, gracious compassionate, slow to anger, abounding and covenant faithfulness. This is all from him.

And it's how God summarizes his response to Israel after the debacle of the golden calf. And so what God does is bring justice on some idolatrous Israelites there at Mount Sinai after the golden calf, but he doesn't walk away from his covenant promises with them. And so in other words, Israel exists after the golden calf story because of God's mercy and forgiveness. And so the irony is the Jonah saying, yeah, I know that you forgive us. That's why I can't stand you. But the reason he can't stand God is precisely the reason that he exists as an Israelite

in covering that relationship with God. So I don't I think and Exodus 34, 6 and 7 is the most re-quoted verse within the Old Testament about God. There's about eight different times that different biblical authors will use the language of Exodus 34, 6 and 7 to describe God's character. So actually I think Exodus 34, 6 and 7 is the basic summary of the God of Israel's character as displayed in the story of the Old Testament. For some reason they were connecting it to Job. I don't think we have time to discuss any connections as Job, but Job does end with kind of a question too, right?

The vyathan, and when God, God's response to Job, he's like, hey, I made these creatures, didn't I? Is it kind of, does he pose it as a question? Yeah, boy, Job, it's just different. It's just different. So maybe we would just say wait for the video and podcast on Job, We'll talk about that. But what Joe's struggling with is I'm struggling to see God as merciful right now.

And that's what because of his suffering, but it's different. Different set of questions, but that are awesome. Okay. We're told about this. Okay, you guys, you need to know about this. My favorite non-commentary on the book of Jonah, it's not a commentary at all, but it unpacks the book so brilliantly.

It's a collection of poems by Thomas Carlyle. And the book you can find on Amazon, it's called You, Jonah. And it has, it's a commentary on each chapter of the book in poems. And it's so amazing, it's so brilliant. And we have three minutes and we have the trivia questions. Hey, we can go over a few minutes. Can I read you a poem?

I want to hear a poem. It's a poetry reading. Yeah, that's good. This one is... You snap at a poetry reading. This one is from chapter 3 and it's about how John finds God's mercy evil. It's called tantrum. The generosity of God displeased Jonah exceedingly and he slashed with angry prayer at the graciousness of the Almighty.

I told you so, he screamed. I knew what you would do, you dirty forgiver. You bless your enemies, you show kindness to those who, despitefully, use you. I would rather die than live in a world with a God like you. And don't try to forgive me either. Well, you're dirty, forgive her. You're dirty, forgive her. Don't, don't pray that. That's not a good thing to pray.

OK, I'm sorry. One more. OK, one more. One more, sorry. This is called Let's Play It Cool. I know a better way to circumvent your silly streak of mixing love with righteousness. All I need to do is take the next flight west, beyond your jurisdiction. This will give you time, O Lord, for sober second thoughts.

You may find yourself swearing off this kick of simple-minded kindness. DUDE, you, Jonah. That's a rough prayer. I'm gonna give you some time to think this through. Oh, I love it anyway. Jonah, dude, I'm telling you, it's a brilliant gem in the Old Testament.

Thanks guys for joining us for the live Q&R today. Totally. So you guys are awesome. Thank you for your support. Have a great week. We'll see you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bible Project Podcast. We're so grateful that you're a part of this project with us.

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