BibleProject - Metaphor E3: Chaotic Waters

Episode Date: June 25, 2018

In part one (00:00 - 25:35), Jon reviews the image of the ideal state of humanity and postulates it as a garden mountain fortress. He asks Tim why this is so different from a more familiar one of a heaven full of clouds and angels. Tim says that it’s important not to mistake the image of a metaphor for the reality of what the image points to. Tim also quotes TS Eliot saying that poetry is a “raid on the inarticulate.” In other words, poetry is meant to describe things that can’t be described in normal, factual use of language. Tim begins to outline the use of the metaphor of chaotic water in the Bible. Chaotic water is the first image given in the Bible. It’s meant to convey a state of un-creation, a state that is uninhabitable and unwelcoming of life. Tim begins to contrast the dark chaotic water that is present at the start of Genesis with the river of life that flows through Eden and is created later in the creation story. In part two (25:35 - 40:25), Tim explains that chaotic waters often become personified as evil. For example, in the story of the Exodus, Pharoah and his army is made equivalent to the chaotic waters in Exodus 15. This story runs in parallel with Psalm 18. "O Lord God of hosts, who is like You, O mighty Lord? Your faithfulness also surrounds You. You rule the swelling of the sea; When its waves rise, You still them. You Yourself crushed Rahab like one who is slain; You scattered Your enemies with Your mighty arm." (Rahab is a Hebrew word for Egypt). In part three (40:25 - 52:25), Tim outlines Isaiah 17:12-14. 12 Woe to the many nations that rage— they rage like the raging sea! Woe to the peoples who roar— they roar like the roaring of great waters! 13 Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging waters, when he rebukes them they flee far away, driven before the wind like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweed before a gale. 14 In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us. The metaphor of chaotic waters further expands to equate the warring nations with chaotic waters. Then Tim begins to outline the new creation prophecies and their relation to the chaotic water metaphor. Joel 4:18: 18 And in that day The mountains will drip with sweet wine, And the hills will flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah will flow with water; And a spring will go out from the house of the Lord To water the valley of Shittim. Zechariah 14:6-9: 6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day, known only to the Lord with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light. 8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter. 9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name. Isaiah 2:1-4: 2 Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the Lord Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream [lit. “river”] to it…. 3 And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. He says that new creation means the restoration of the cosmic mountain and the reunification of the waters. In part four (52:25 - 57:35), the guys try to crystalize their thought process. Danger and death in the Bible are described as chaotic waters and love, peace and security are described as a river of life. Tim says these images are fundamental to understanding the Bible, especially the prophets. In part five (57:35 - end), the guys recap their conversation on metaphor and talk briefly about creating the video on metaphors in the Bible. Tim briefly touches on the story of Jesus walking on the water. Why is this story in all the gospels? Because in the Jewish tradition, it represents Christ’s command over the chaotic waters that threaten human life and originally appear in Genesis 1. Thank you to all our supporters! Next week we will have a Poetry and Metaphor Q+R episode. Send us your questions at [e-mail] by June 25th! Show Produced By: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Rosasharn Music Show Resources: Books by George Lakoff and Mark Turner: More Than Cool Reason: A Field Guide to Poetic Metaphor Metaphors We Live By

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it in. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

We've been talking about metaphors and symbolism in Biblical poetry. Metaphors are a way to talk about something, something that's usually profound or hard to explain, by comparing it to something else more tangible, mapping the elements of one idea onto another. And metaphors are powerful. They allow you to begin to understand things that are ultimately beyond our understanding, or as T.S. Eliot put it. Poetry is the kind of language that performs raids

on the inarticulate. The Bible uses metaphors, and some of them are hard for us to appreciate because they're metaphors that we don't commonly use in the modern Western world. But it's important for us to understand them, because we want to think about the world the way the Bible thinks about the world. We want to learn how to adopt the biblical visual imagination. In the last episode we talked about how the biblical metaphor for the human ideal is a mountain, dry land, high above everything else. And not just any mountain, but a mountain

garden. It's eaten, formed on the ground that emerged out of the chaotic waters. It's the temple high on the hill. Today, we're gonna look at a companion metaphor. We're gonna turn our attention to the chaotic waters that God separated in order for the dry land to emerge. The uncreated state that's uninhabitable for humans, chaotic watery wilderness. It's an obstacle to the emergence of human life.

Throughout the Bible, chaotic waters is a metaphor for danger and death. And this makes sense. Humans, we live on land. The sea is dangerous. It's full of dangerous creatures. It's unruly. It's powerful, it can destroy you. And so for the ancient thinker, a common metaphor is... Danger and evil are chaotic waters. Genesis 1, the chaotic waters is something God had to tame in order for creation to flourish. But as the story of the Bible continues, the ones that are creating the most danger and death are us humans. And so it's no surprise to find biblical authors talking about people like dangerous waters.

Humans who hate each other, they kill each other, are like the chaotic waters. And so when Isaiah envisions the new creation, he envisions the new Eden Temple mountain garden, and the river returning, it's the violent nations finally becoming at one and peace and rivering back into the new Eden. It's so good! Thanks for joining us. Here we go. All right, we're talking about metaphor and biblical poetry. And this is our third hour of conversation. Mm-hmm. And so let's just do a little

Summary where we've been let us let us let you But let me say that that's I mean let you let me let me try And the first episode we looked at Psalm 46 just as a teaser wetter appetite for poetry. We started talking about why symbolism and metaphor is important. And at its kind of foundation, we were trying to wrestle through how the way that we understand almost anything is by associating it with something else.

Especially when it's something very abstract, not concrete. So we went through a lot of examples of how metaphor is embedded into our everyday language. And this comes from Lake Off, about how there's these underlying bedrock metaphors that he calls schemes, basic conceptual metaphors. Basic conceptual metaphors.

But what, oh, but someone else uses the word. Oh, no, and then what he said was, and each of those has a scheme, which is like a series of roles they create. I thought those were the slots. Correct, the scheme is made up of the slots. Okay, so the basic metaphor is the scheme. The basic metaphor is the scheme.

That's right, life as a journey. Life as a journey is the basic metaphor is the scheme. The basic metaphor is the scheme. That's right, life as a journey. Life as a journey is a thing. It is the basic metaphor scheme. And then when you have the life as a journey metaphor, it creates all the different roles that you can spend metaphors out of. Life as a journey metaphor is the schema, the scheme. And then there's always what they call slots.

And so here's some slots. The person leading a life is a traveler. His purposes are his destination. The means for achieving the purposes are his routes along the way. Oh yeah, that's right. Difficulties in life are obstacles or impediments to the travel.

Counselors are guides. The traveling progress is the distance traveled. So all these things, and then those specific, but we guess we're calling slots. That's right, I made a lot of progress this year. Yeah. On whatever, we're going to play the flute.

Right. So I talk about, you talk about my increase in skill level as like distance traveled. If it was a distance traveled. Yes. Right. Yes, right. That's right. Yeah.

And so you can find those embedded in so many turns of phrases. And Lake Off's point isn't just that we talk in metaphors. It's that those metaphors actually go on to affect how our brains interpret our life experience. Yeah. And they actually experience my increasing skill on the flute as if I'm traveling, traveling and making progress. Yeah.

I actually conceive of it though. It becomes your mental map for a reality. That's right. And one really great example of that is talking about arguments. Like when you're having a disagreement with someone someone a predominant metaphor is argument as war Yeah, and in that that mental schema Really changes the way you think about how you engage in a conversation with someone. Yeah, it predisposes people towards more aggressive Right, I've got a win. There's a winner in a loser. Yeah, that's right. I'm gonna defeat you beat you

So all to say the Bible has a lot of imagery and metaphors But it's often it's an active communication. It's an active Oftentimes the metaphors used which are embedded deeply into the biblical writers imagination Mm-hmm are not metaphors that we in the modern world are familiar with. Some are universal and they're pretty intuitive to get. Some metaphors in general. Some of the biblical imagery. Yeah, light, dark, thirsty, hungry, dark, I kind of think.

Yeah, right, right. I'm blind, but now I see that kind of stuff. But others. Tasting see that the Lord is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, these are just basic sensory. Yeah metaphors. Yeah, that everyone can experience Yeah, but then there's a whole set of real particular types of images Mm-hmm that have specific meaning and associations for people living in ancient Israel

specific meaning and associations for people living in ancient Israel that just don't resonate. Or they mean different things in our image. Interesting. And so that's what, yeah, we want this video to help us learn how to adopt the biblical visual imagination, so to speak. You brought up four basic metaphorical schemes that are in the first few chapters of the Bible and carry on throughout the whole Bible. And these schemes are very important to how the Bible talks symbolically. And these schemes are very foreign to us as modern Westerners.

Yeah, most modern readers across the world are gonna find different ones these to feel kind of strange. And we're wrestling through this in real time in that you know the categories, but we don't actually know the best way to phrase them as schemes. In George Lake Offs term, you boil it down to a short little sentence phrase. Like life is a journey. People are plants. Time is a possession. So that's what

we're trying to do with these four. And so the first one we did in the last episode and the sentence now is the ideal state is a mountain garden temple. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I've been chewing on this since we talked about it because I was taught the ideal state is some disembodied Cloudy harps. Yeah.

You know, white robes, like that's the mental image. And to have this very earthy garden mound. You know? They have this very earthy garden mound. You know, like that's not in any of our imagination. I mean, it wasn't maybe if you grew up in Hawaii. Or maybe any like island. Oh man, it feels very much like Kauai. Yeah, that's what that kind of feels like. Oh, there you go.

Yes, just as big mountain garden. Oh man, K, choir is beautiful. Yeah, I've never been. It's literally an island that reigns the most of any Hawaiian island. Super green and lush, and it's one big mountain. Wow. You can hike up too if you haven't done it.

Well, there you go. That's a lot like that. Genesis 1, too. And that, so this idea of the cosmic garden temple, mountain, as the ideal state, you see that all throughout the Bible. It actually ties the whole biblical narrative together, because that's where Revelation ends with a new Jerusalem descending from heaven to earth. It's about heaven and earth.

Renewing, getting remarried. Yeah. And what John sees is the city garden on top of a tall mountain. Now, by calling it a metaphor, are you saying then there isn't going to be an actual garden city one day? No, no more than saying my wife's a fireball means my wife doesn't exist.

My point is she does exist and the only adequate way to talk about her qualities is metaphorically. So you're not, you're not. But I know for sure that your wife isn't a ball of fire. You totally. But I don't know for sure that the new creation won't actually have a garden city. Well, okay, so I think this is a fundamental principle

of how biblical imagery works, then. We shouldn't mistake the image for the reality to which the image points. And especially when we're talking about new creation, which is an ultimate fulfillment of the primal ideal state on pages one and two, to what do these images actually refer in what we would call reality. And the biblical authors clearly aren't interested in giving us that information, because all their language about it is image-driven.

And yeah, I guess it's taken me a while to come to peace with that. But all we're coming to peace with is that the most important experiences and ideals that humans come into touch with can't be described in a matter of fact plain way. Which to me, that's the essence of poetry. Right.

Ooh, this, I came across this great phrase, T.S. Eliot, and oh, it's a famous one. Sorry, I'm reading it, but I can't. You even remember, I know, I think it's the four quartets. Yeah, the four quartets, yes. He has this phrase about how the poet is someone who performs a raid on the inarticulate. What, does that mean?

A raid on the inarticulate. Performing poetry is the kind of language that performs raids on the inarticulate. Like, so someone who can't explain themselves is there are things that you find very difficult to explain. So things are difficult to explain can still be looted. Can still, yeah, you can, you can still, you can sneak in and grab their value and grab on to something of the ultimate transcendent and bring it back out for yourself.

Yeah. You just have just a tiny little piece of plunder. Poetry is language that performs raids on the inarticulate. Wow. It was such a great image. Yeah. And it's doing the very thing that it's talking about. Yeah, it's a meta.

Yeah, super meta. So that's the idea. That's right. OK. Love it. So we did that first one. If you want to dig into a more that's in the previous episode. Correct.

But let's look at the second one. And why don't we do it this way? Why don't we just look at the verses, talk about them, and then try to summarize everything in a sentence. Good. I like that mission. Let's do that. The one we just did was about the dry land,

mound, rock, fortress temple. So now let's talk about the waters. The waters. Out of which, the ground emerges. So on page one, Genesis one, the uncreated state that's described as wild and waste, disordered and uninhabited. It's described as wild and waste. As Genesis 1 verse 2, the land was wild and waste, and darkness was over the surface of

the deep. And the deep is the ocean. The ocean does. Yeah, the sea is the ocean. Yeah, the abysmal deep. The deeps. Abyss. Are you going down and down and down? The deeps are in. Yeah, that's the ocean. Yeah, the abysmal deep. The deeps. Abysmal deep. Abyss. Are you good down and down and down?

The deep of the dunes. Yeah, that's right. And again, from ancient authors conception, it's the bottomless deep on which the land, no, emerges out of. Right. And the spirit of God is there. So that's the uncreated state that's uninhabitable

for humans. Chaotic water. Chaotic watery wilderness. Yeah. So the dry land emerges out of that. And notice, it's very important in contrast to your Canaanite neighbors and your Babylonian neighbors, if your nation is realired.

They have all kinds of mythologies and stories about how the waters are these hostile powers to whatever their patron god is, Bale or Marduk. And so they all have these stories about how their God had to engage the chaotic waters in a battle, Yom or Tiamat. And this is the dragon, the sea dragon.

They're fighting the dragon. The chaos dragon is the chaotic water. And so in... Is the chaotic waters personified as a as a monster as a monster correct? Yeah in Genesis there's no trace of that there's no trace of what there is the sea monster Totally and sea monsters there and the chaotic waters by the way is very surprising I bet you the sea monster if you walk up to most anyone. I've missed it my whole life Oh, you walk up to anyone you're like there's a sea monster in Patreon or your Bible.

You'd be like, no, there's not. Well, let's see. Genesis chapter one, verse 21, God created the great sea monsters. It's the new American standard. Let's read the English standard version. Genesis one, verse 21, God created the great sea creatures.

Sea creatures, I think that's how I generally read it. And there's like, yeah, cool. There's big creatures in the water. God created the great. No, it is the Tannin. It's a reptile and it's got crazy heads and teeth. How do you know that's what they're referring to? It's a red joke. It's Leviathan. No, well.

What do you mean? What I mean is the biblical authors are expressing and sharing with their neighbors because there's a common cultural perception. Just like we say the sun sets. We know it doesn't set. But it seems that way. And so there is a common cultural conception that the deep has great monsters in it. And so if you want to talk about the chaotic waters as a symbol, one of the ways you can

do it is talking about the great sea monster that lives in it. So we know for sure they're talking about monsters in Job. But how do we know for sure here in Genesis 1, it's not just Wales. Oh, it's just, it's what the word, the word tannin. The word tannin doesn't mean just large whale or squid or something. Oh, it's the word for serpent or reptile. It is. It is the word for serpent That's right. Yeah, when Moses says how can I get the Israelites in Pharaoh to believe and God says Yeah, throw your staff on the ground and it will become a tannin. Mm-hmm. So it's literally the sea reptile here Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's here aquatic reptile

C-Reptile here. Yeah. Okay. It's here. A aquatic reptile. Nice. And this was a mythological creature in Mesopotamian mythology. Correct. Yes.

Yeah, but in Israelites' worldview, it's just a creature. It's just a creature God. Make by God. God loves it. It's good. Yeah. And a Job you learned that God loves it. He's like proud of it, Job.

Yeah. This is, Genesis 1 is, yeah, working out of monotheism, one true creator, good, beautiful minds. Yes. And so in that world, the giant sea creatures, I mean, there may be monsters, the humans, but to God, they're just beautiful creatures. And the waters, they're just tame. They do what God says they're going to do. And that's the waters in Genesis 1. However, they are still described as this obstacle out of which dry land has to emerge. If God didn't do anything, it would just be chaotic waters. Okay, there we go. So that's important. The image of the first image of waters, right? It's an obstacle to the emergence of human life.

Mm-hmm, okay. Second association of waters is on page two. Okay. And it's different. And we've never talked about this before. Oh, I'm ready. So Genesis 2 is a parallel narrative from wild and waste to humans ruling the garden, and it uses gardening imagery.

So instead of the chaotic, dark, wild and waste of Genesis 1, Genesis 2 begins with a barren, un-cultivated field. Genesis 2.5, no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, no plant of the field, had been sprouted for. There hadn't been any rain, and there were no humans to do any farming. So the assumption is, of course there's no farms yet, because there's no humans. So Verse 6, God sent a mist, and the Hebrew word is aid, all of dullet, aid, and aid, to rise up out of the earth and water the surface of the ground. So an aid, then the Lord God formed a dhamm. It's the same first two letters, the aid.

By the way, is that? Mist doesn't come from the ground. Oh, it's some kind of subterranean springs. Is that, oh yeah, mist is not helpful here. You're right, I'm sorry, I totally forgot. Yeah, right, the English word mist is not helping us. No, it's some kind of, it's referring to some kind of subterranean spring. Okay. Yeah. Sprit, like natural springs to some kind of subterranean spring. Okay.

Yeah. Sprint, like natural springs. It's the water under the earth. Yeah. Right? So the idea is God separated the waters above from the waters below. Yeah, but there's waters below that came. At this point, the waters above hadn't come down yet.

Yeah. It was just the waters below. Right. Right. Right. Springing up. Yeah. Springing up, yeah.

Springing up, yeah. Springing up, yeah. Springing up, yeah. Springing up, yeah. Springing up. Yeah. Spring up, oh well. And that water springing up is called ed. Ed. Then. Why don't we call them just fountains, what can we say? Yeah, that's a good question. A spring. Maybe Genesis. Oh, Genesis, two six.

I bet there's a translation that. Mist, a flow, an ASB has flow, ESv has spring, mist or spring. They all have footnotes, let's say mist or spring. But this is the only time this word occurs in the whole Hebrew Bible. And I think because it's a word play on just watch where this is going. Okay. All right. So, but an ed used to come up from the earth, verse seven, then the Lord God formed Adam. The first two letters are

the same as the word ed. Ed, Adam. Okay. Olive-Dollet is ed and man is Olive-Dollet. Mem, Adam. Then keep watching. He formed an Adam from the dust of the Adamah. So within two sentences, you have these three, you have these consonants keep reappearing. You're ed, Adam, Adamah. And if you're reading in Hebrew, it's clearly like a wordplayed of a word. So what's it connecting? It's connecting the water, springing up out of the ground to the human that is made from the dust of the ground. And those three words are all related. The the ed, the adam, the adama, the spring, the man, and the ground. So you're already right now, you've got this connection between ground and water and

humans. Then the Lord God planted a garden in Eden on top of the cosmic mountain. And all kinds of trees, it's awesome there. Go down to verse 10. A river that watered the garden was flowing out from Eden. So let's just pause there. So before God planted the garden, there were just water springs. Yeah, in a barren field. In a barren field. But now we're going to cultivate. God is going to take action to cultivate one specific spot, and puts the man there.

And then God provides the ultimate water source, the divinely provided water source, which is a river, not just a little bubbling brook, but a river, and it's a single river. So it's one river watering Eden, and then once it leaves Eden, it says from there, then it divides, yippareid, it divides into four headwaters, and then what it describes is rivers that are actually really far apart from each other. So one's the geese on like down in Egypt and Cush, two are the tigers and the fratis. What are closer to each other? Well, they're in the same kind of continent.

Not really. I don't know. Nile is northern Africa. I've never been over there. I don't know how to. Nile is northern Africa. I'm not talking about Nile, I'm talking about the fratis and tigers. Oh, your fratis and tigers are next to each other. Okay. Yeah, they're parallel to each other. That's't know how to. The Nile is more than Africa. I'm not talking about Nile, I'm talking about Frady's and Tigers. Oh, your Frady's and Tigers are next to each other.

Okay. Yeah, they're parallel to each other. That's what I meant. But they're nowhere near the Nile. Near the Nile. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the fourth. These four rivers do not come from the same source. Maybe at one time, and continental drift, they may have.

Yeah, right. But. Yeah, and actually, and that's the wrong question, I think, just to say, was there a time on planet Earth when the V's rivers, that's just the wrong question. The point is, this is an author's mental map of, if the garden is at the center of the mound that emerged out of the waters. Then every civilization around every river is from that. It's the symbolic center of the waters. Then every civilization around every river is from that. It's the symbolic center of the earth.

And we know this is because the biblical poets are going to talk about Jerusalem with precisely this language. They're going to talk about the river flowing out of Jerusalem to water the whole earth. Which there is known. Which, yeah totally. And it's symbolism. What else to say? It's poetic symbolism.

And all of those, we're getting ahead of ourselves. Sorry. First, here's what's interesting about this image. We already, through the word play, the water coming out of the ground has been connected to the humans coming out of the ground through that word play. Now we've got a river, a single river coming up out of the Garden of Eden and it stays one river in Eden, but when it leaves, that's when it divides. What's interesting is that that word divide only appears a couple other times in the book of Genesis and it always describes humans. So once

Noah's family gets off the ark, his sons divide into the table of nations in Genesis 3. And what do they divide into the three families of Shem, Ham, and J-Feth? So humanity, the nations are dividing. It's sort of like as humans get farther away from Eden, the more and more and more they divide. So that river is connected to the river and the humans. The one humanity divided humanity and the divided river. They're interesting. They're connected images. And again, you might think, why is Tim doing this? I'm doing this because you just track later biblical authors

are tracking with this and they take it places. . So for example, what's the next story where people like Noah and his family come through chaotic waters onto dry land as God saves them from evil and chaos. That's all we've already been in. We have loads of us in. These are lights. Yeah, we made a video about this. So in the song of the sea, Exodus 15, this is the next example. Okay. Pharaoh and his armies perished in the waters, but they are also made parallel to the waters.

So watch, this is in Exodus 15 verse 4 where the Quilt begins. So Pharaoh's chariots and his army he cast into the sea. The choicest of his officers drowned in the sea. In the greatness of your excellence you overthrow those who rise up against you humans. So what did what did God do? Yeah, the Red Sea. Well first of all he overthrew his enemies. Okay, rise up against you, humans. So what did God do at the Red Sea? Well first of all, He overthrew His enemies. He rise up against you. You sent forth your burning anger, consume them like chaff. At the blast of your nostrils, what else is God opposing with water? Wind and breath. The waters. So it's depicting God almost having two enemies at the Red Sea stand. One is the wind blowing back the waters Because the waters could consume his people couldn't they?

Yeah, the waters could consume anybody. Yeah, and so God's fighting back the waters So to speak and he's fighting back the Egyptians the Egyptians and the waters are both Yeah, you know, it's interesting. There's this poem. It's like out of order. The Egyptians and the waters are both... You know it's interesting, there's this poem, it's like out of order. Like literally, right? Yeah, that's a good poem. It drowns Pharaoh and his choices, they're like the choices officers.

His fine officers drown. And then he talks about him piling up the waters. But in the story, you got to pile up the waters first, let the Israelites through. And then the walls of water come down and drown them. Yeah, it's good. So why poetically does he mix it up? Yeah, yeah. I think because who are the enemies in the story?

It's the waters and the armies of Pharaoh. They're associated. Well, I never would think of the waters as an enemy. I would, as a barrier maybe. Yes. Yeah, okay. But you're saying it's even deeper than that in the biblical imagination, the chaotic waters

are also an enemy to humanity. Yeah, at least there's two dangers. There's two dangers in the story. The Israelites could be consumed by the waters or killed by Pharaoh's army. And what God does is fight back both of them. And in fact, he then turns the chaotic waters onto the enemies in this act of self-destruction,

a chaos destroying itself, nothing. So it's just, once again, it's just a poem that associates humans, enemies with dangerous waters. It associates. I mean, the skeptic inside me is saying it may be associating them. Yeah. Well, it's just even in poetic parallelism, right? You send forth burning anger and overthrow those who rise up against you. At the blast of your nostrils, you pile up the waters. I see. So it just in poetic

parallelism. It's making those two things symmetrical. Yeah, they're putting them in parallel. Yeah, that's what he, the Hebrew poetry does, that's how it works. That's right. Okay, got it. So parallel enemies, it's parallel to waters. Forgot about Hebrew couplets. Let's go to another one.

Psalm 18. What, Psalm 18? It's David's victory, Pum. Once he's delivered from Saul. He said, and here they're gonna combine with our previous discussion. So he begins, the Lord's my rock and my fortress. Yeah?

Yeah. A high, a high little place to be saved from. Yeah, my rock in whom I take refuge, my shield, my stronghold. I call upon the Lord, he's worthy to be praised, and I'm saved from my enemies. So here it's you go up to the high rock to be saved from your enemies below. That's the matter of the image. Yep.

Later on in the poem verse 8, O Lord God of hosts, who's like you? Your faithfulness surrounds you. You rule the swelling of the sea. When it's waves rise, you steal them. You yourself crushed Rahab, like one who was slain. You scattered your enemies with your mighty arm. The heavens are yours, the earth is yours, the world, and all that contains, you found it all of it. So, you looked at me funny at some point.

Yeah, well, where you have, I mean, are we talking about... Rahav. Who are we talking about? Yeah, Rahav is ancient. It's referring to Egypt as a mythological character. Rahav is a name, it's an Israelite name for talking about the God of Egypt. Okay. We're referring to Egypt's deity, Rahaav.

Okay. Essentially, in Israel versus Egypt, it was Israel's God versus Egypt's God. And Israelite's called that, Israel, Egypt's God, Rahaav. The Egypt's Egyptians didn't call it Rahaav? No, as far as we can tell. So it's a uniquely Israelite name for the God of Egypt. Well the Egyptians themselves were polytheists. So they had like many gods.

Yeah, but in quite a number of places in biblical poetry, Egypt and its God together are called Rahov. And there's probably something going on there that I still don't understand yet. So notice in this poem it opens with David being on the high rock with his enemies down below. Then he moves and talks about God stilling the swelling chaotic sea. Well who or what is the swelling chaotic sea? The God of Egypt, which is his enemies. So God's stilling the sea is the same as scattering his enemies. So it's crystal clear here now. The enemies are chaotic waters. Danger is chaotic water. Danger is chaotic water. Danger and evil are chaotic waters. This is the scheme. I think that's the four goals. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all the way back up to Genesis 2 where humans are water. Remember that the aid comes up out of the ground and Adam cups up out of the ground.

But in that story, the humans aren't evil at this point. No, no, they're not. So if the scheme is that water, chaotic waters is evil. Why use water for humanity? Well, there's the, there's the chaotic waters out here. Yeah. And the rivers obviously drain out into the sea. Yeah. So once humans leave Eden, they divide, they join the chaotic sea,

and it's assault upon Eden, and the ideal of gods. Because if the ideal state is the Garden Temple Fortress, core metaphor number one, core metaphor number two, is humans are either in Eden and they're one unified? Or when they leave Eden like that river, they divide and join the chaotic. So by associating them with the spring and using a word play, it's tipping a hat to what's gonna happen.

Correct. Yep. Yeah. The river, leaving Eden and separating and dividing, is a metaphorical preview of humanity's fate when it leaves the garden and then divides an unleashed chaos and death upon itself. And just wait for it, because later Biblical authors are going to see all this and pick it up. But here is crystal clear. The enemies and the chaotic waters are images of each other.

Yeah. So maybe the schema is or the scheme is danger and enemies or death and enemies or well I think I have here danger and death and it's death could be death by because natural disasters are viewed as acts of death. I just when you say danger and death, I guess I don't think of people, but I should. Oh, maybe eat danger and evil, danger and... Hmm, danger and death sounds, you know. Yeah, I kinda like this guy. It's got the... It's got the double D.

Yeah, because death can be, it happens to you or I can make it happen to you. Yeah. You can die at ripe old age. And that's still a tragedy. So the, so if danger of death of the kick-wise as a scheme, the slots are, the seed dragon, it's part of it.

Yeah. Or actual sea creatures. Creatures. Yep, which we'll talk about in the next one. Oh, cool. But other humans, humans, humans, the danger of a human killing you or being your enemy can describe it as a matter of fact.

It's also as caracoders. That's right. And that would make perfect intuitive sense for someone who had this scheme in their psyche. Correct. But for us, we have to kind of go, oh wait, I got to remember. Yes. Yes.

People are caracoders. Yes, that's right. Because people are dangerous. So let's read a poem by somebody who has this metaphor in their psyche. It's called Psalm 69. Save me, O God, for the waters have threatened my life. I have sunk in deep, myer. There's no foothold.

I have come into deep waters. The torrent overflows me. I'm weary with crying. my throat is parched. My eyes fail while I wait for God. Just stop right there. You are drowning in waters, and your throat is parched. Yeah, that's the last thing you're worried about when you're drowning. Yeah, this is such a great, this is one of my favorite examples.

So he's drawing upon two different metaphorical schemes, but they're related in association with death and danger. Yeah, being dehydrated in some point. The wilderness. The wilderness. And being sinking into the ocean. Yeah, that's right. And think of the second sentence of Genesis 1.

Yeah. What was the land? It was a wild and waste. Watery wilderness. Like a desert. Yeah. And it was the deep abyss. Dark like the ocean. And here's a poet who's combining those same two metaphors again to describe one reality. Yeah. Danger. Well, actually, what is he describing? Let's read on. Okay. Those who hate me without cause are more than the hairs of my head. They would destroy me. Those who are powerful They are wrongfully my enemies Deliver me from the mire. Don't let me sink. What is my or the mud like an adult? In the water. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. When you, when you think of when you're in a lake or a surf and your feet start to sink.

Yeah, like a really muddy lake. Yeah, that's the mire. Yeah. And look at this, deliver me from the mire that I might not sink. May I be delivered from my foes and from the deep waters? You can just see it. His human enemies are being described as

deep waters. As chaotic deep waters, or the mud in which he sinks in the water, or the desert. In which he's... To give him a dry throat. And so we, I don't know, for a long time I just thought, I just got a colorful imagination. But these are all deeply associated ways of talking about the same thing. Don't let the flood of water overflow me, the deep sea swallow me up. Ooh, here's a new one, don't let the pit

shut its mouth on me. Yeah, the grave. Yeah, so the grave, but actually this is interesting, the word for cistern and the word for pit as grave are the same word, boar in Hebrew. Just a hole in the ground. It's a hole in the ground and you can use that hole to collect water or you can use that hole to deposit it in the dead.

But it's like closes up, it's a grave. It's a grave, totally. So once again, you're under the land. So humans belong here on top of the land, on the garden, temple, rock, mountain, and that's the ideal state. And so to be under the ground, it's not our place. To be out in the waters, that's not our place. You get the idea. Yeah. Okay, so that was a poet who can talk about, I mean, who knows what he's talking about? The fact that the enemies aren't described in any detail is what makes these poems. Yeah, we just know there's lots of them. Yeah, totally.

Yeah, it's a nation full of them. Yeah. How many hairs are on a human head? Ah, that's a calculated one. Is it calculated? Oh, mighty Google. Hey, Google. Oh, Siri. Hold on. You Google, all of us Siri. Let's see if it comes up with the same thing. How many hairs are on a human head, Siri?

90,000 to 150,000. Yep, I got 100,000. Wow. It's a series. 120 square inches of head space. Wow. Each follicle can grow about 20 individual hairs in a person's lifetime. Oh, there's 100,000 follicles.

And each follicle can have 20 individual hairs come out of it, not all at once. And you, guess how many hairs you lose in an average day? Woo. Ah, 30. 100. No. Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's what my wife would say.

I think I leave it on the shower. Which thumbs around. I guess the question is, is how many hairs did an ancient Israelite think you had in your head? That's the question. Totally. Yeah. A nation's worth. Apparently.

Yeah. So, Psalm 69 begins to really make it clear. Again, all these images are associated. Look at this one from Isaiah 17. Here, I'll let you read aloud. I'm tired of reading, I'm saying loud. This is Isaiah 17. Wode to the many nations that rage. The rage like the raging sea.

Wode to the people who roar, they roar like the roaring of great waters. Although the people's roar, like the roar of searching waters. Although the people's roar like the roar of surging waters, when he rebukes them, they flee far away, driven before the wind, like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweed before a gale, in the evening, sudden terror, before the morning they're gone. This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us. So on the surface, the images, I mean it just says it. Yeah, the people are like, it's a simile this time.

Yeah, correct. And now notice also what narratives are grounding these metaphorical connections, however. Evening and mourning. In the evening, terror, in the morning, still waters, no danger. And there was evening, and there was morning. And there was evening, and there was morning, and there was evening. Oh, you didn't get it?

Let me repeat it seven times in the narrative, and there was evening, and there was morning. So he's calling back to Genesis one So it's the Genesis one right that there's the the dangerous waters and God Totally no threat to God His wind Right the spirit drives them back and the dry land emerges But there's also another important narrative and we've even thought about it, which is the Exodus narrative

Where it's in the night. It's very specific and the narrative is in the night Okay, that Pharaoh comes they set out and it's in the morning watch that the waters close Over Pharaoh Wow and the wind drives the waters back. Hmm. So Exodus Creation Genesis one. It's all connected. All these images here. And so I can just in Psalm 69, I can talk about my own personal bad day. Yeah. In this cosmic language. Yeah. Or I can talk about in Isaiah, we are reflecting back on the invasion of Assyria, probably I think also Babylon, and we can talk about my bad day or enemy, army invasion with the same metaphors. Isn't that interesting? I mean, this is a very deep in these people's minds and hearts.

Okay, so if the scheme is danger and death, archaotic waters, the metaphorical scheme, fabric, the underlying foundational image. Let's flip it over then. Let's flip over the scheme. Okay. Danger and death are chaotic waters. So what are the metaphors? What are the scheme is something that has two sides

all of a sudden That we can flip. It does, like a pancake. Metaphor is... Yeah, that's right. Metaphorical schemes are pancakes. Let's flip it over. If danger and death are chaotic waters, safety and life are... Yeah, the land, the fortress land.

Well, let's just keep going down with some examples here. Let's read Joel chapter four. Okay. In that day, which is the day of the Lord, the mountains will drip with sweet wine. Sweet berry wine. And the hills will flow with milk.

And the brooks of Judah will flow with water and a spring will go out from the house of Lord to water the valley of she team. So, safety. In that day being the day of new creation, the day of restoration. When you confront the ferros of this world and receive the worst ideal. Because where is the house of the Lord?

It's on the mountain temple rock. Right. The New Eden. So of course there's going to be that spring coming out of the temple. Just like there was that river coming out of Eden. Zechariah 14. Again, on that day, the day of the Lord, track with what narratives are grounding the images here. It's a poem from Zachariah 14. On that day, there will be neither sunlight nor cold frosty darkness. It will be a unique day,

known only to the Lord. No distinction between day or night. It's just a swi-light. One, hmm. When evening comes, pure light. On that day, living water will flow out of Jerusalem. Half to the Dead Sea, the deepest, deadest place, half to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter. The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord and His name, the one name. That's the schmarr right there. Did this poem so unbelievable?

No sunlight, no dark, no day, no night, just... No seasons. Just pure light. Even. Oh yeah. And no seasons, just pure light. And living water flowing out of the temple in Jerusalem. I mean, there are seasons, but if it's flowing in summer and in winter, that means there's really no distinction between the seasons. Just pure light and pure life flowing out of the Jerusalem temple. So what we're doing is we're painting safety and life in the future, ideal, as a renewed Garden of Eden.

So it's all and notice it's focused on this river. Yeah, just really care about this river coming out of the temple. Yeah, the river of life. Okay, so that prepares us. Sorry for this last one. This is going to land the temple. Yeah, the river of life. Okay, so that prepares us for this last one. This is going to land the plane. Isaiah chapter 2, it's very similar. Now it will come about in the last days, in the final days. The mountain of the house of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains

raised up above the hills. Okay, so we're back to the high rock mountain fortress temple. And this is especially anybody who's ever been to Truslam. If you're even if you're on Mount Zion, which is a hill to a bit of the west of where the temple mountain is now, or if you're there near the dome of the rock, you just look across the valley and you see the mount of olives is higher. Then here, so it's clearly, it's, we're talking about its cosmic metaphorical significance. Right.

It becomes the center of the universe. Yeah. Okay. So that mountain is raised up and all of the nations will river into it. Most of our translations read, they will stream into it. But it's the word river, turned into a verb, Nahaar. We've turned stream into a verb. We have actually, yeah. River into a verb.

That's a good point. Yeah. Oh. Yep. That's right. Yeah. So the same concept. Yeah. There is.

You can see a stream. Something can stream. Or the stream can stream. Something can stream. Yeah. Stream can stream, but a river doesn't. And in Hebrew, rivers can river. I think we could stand up, maybe.

Oh, what? Why can't rivers river? Yeah. Stream can stream. Why? Goose and Geese, but not moose and mese? Yeah. Last strange language. So anyhow, catch the image here.

The nations are rivering uphill. Yeah. The river's going uphill. Yeah, not physically possible. Yeah, and all these other images, the river's coming out. But now the river's going back. And it's people, the nations. And what are they doing? They hammer their swords into plowshares, their spears into pruning hooks.

They turn their AK-47s into combine harvesters. Right? Farming. Nation won't lift up sword against nation, nor will they ever again learn war. So it's shalom, peace between humans. So just like when the river left Eden and separated and divided, so also humanity left Eden and separated and divided, and then enemies, humans who hate each other and kill each other, are like the chaotic waters. That's the fundamental metaphor, danger and death are chaotic waters. And so when Isaiah envisions the new creation,

he envisions a new Eden Temple mountain garden. And the river returning, but he's seen the metaphorical link between humans and the river in Genesis 2. And so the river are the people straightening in. The violent nations finally becoming at one in peace and rivering back into the new Eden. It's so good. Yeah. So, okay, so if one side of this metaphor is...

Correct. ...Danger and death are chaotic waters. Using the other side is that when danger and death are overcome, then it's living water. It's like a... Well, I think, yeah, the fundamental image, again, if we're thinking in terms of schemes, is danger and death are chaotic waters. So that also creates a slot for the opposite that safety and life can be depicted

as the river of life in Eden. River of life. Yeah. If the chaotic waters are danger and death, then safety and life, which can be created by humans, can be depicted as the river of Eden, the Eden River. Is that right? Does that work? Would Georgia Lake Off be proud of us? We're just bringing men. Lake Off, help us out. Okay, so the scheme, the underlying scheme is that chaotic water. It just may be the more underlying imagery is that humans are water.

And so if it's dangerous, violent humans, they're chaotic waters. But if they're Shalom creating new Jerusalem seeking humans, it's peaceful river. Then they're the river of Eden. Humans are water. Because other things can be the chaotic waters too. Like sea creatures. The underlying schema would actually be danger is water. But no. But it's but it's also danger. It's always the danger that humans pose to each other. It's always that. Well, it seemed like it was always that wasn't it? Mm-hmm. I mean in Psalm 69, my enemies are the waters. Yeah. Isaiah 17, the nations are the raging waters. Is anything else described as the raging waters? Well, Psalm 46 that we opened the series with.

Yeah. God is our fortress when the mountains tauter into the seas when the waters roar. Second stands there when the nations roar and the kingdoms tauter. Yeah. So yeah, you know, it's just, it's kind of made the humans. And's the the word play on the bubbling spring. Oh, yeah, and

the humans are in there the Ed Adam humans are the humans are water on page two humans are water I'm going to go to the next one. So the threat that humans pose can be described as chaotic waters and the piece that humans will experience and create can be described as the river of Eden But the deeper underlying matter doesn't God provide the river. Yeah, yeah, he does he provide he does That's why I think that's why I'm getting hung up here in Isaiah 2 the nations of the waters. Yeah, yeah But it's not always but no, in fact that's I think it's a unique one. I could be wrong about that. There might be others. As we're going to actually see in a later one in this, usually the Torah and God's will and spirit are the waters. Maybe the schema is just like the evil of humans is chaotic waters. And then this is kind of an exception where that idea is flipped on its head.

exception where that idea is flipped on its head. Yeah, meaning that safety and life can be described as the river of Eden, whether that's metaphorically describing humans. Yeah. Or cause yeah, in Joel and Zechariah, it's just the river flowing out of the temple, bringing life to other people. So are we saying that it's danger and death

in general, archaic waters, or the dangers that humans pose? general, archaic waters, or the dangers that humans pose? Well, archaic waters. In the examples we looked at, and as I'm scanning through other passages in my head, because as we're gonna see, beasts and wild animals pose their own threat. They don't need to be described metaphorically. Yeah, we get it.

They are their own. In fact, humans can be described as dangerous animals. That's another key image here. How are you feeling about this one? About the waters? Good. I just want to know whether it's danger and death in general or humans, danger and specific. I think I want to stick with how I first formed it, danger and death. Until I look at a bunch more examples. Danger and death can be described as chaotic waters. Sometimes humans are the agents of that. But sometimes it's just death.

Sometimes it's water. Yeah, or sometimes it's just death itself. Mm. It's death itself described as waters. Probably. Yeah. Sounds bit local. I'm trying to think.

Yeah, yeah, gosh, I need to think about it more now. But at least in these examples, and the majority come to my mind, it's usually people who pose the danger. Whereas on the opposite, safety in life is usually provided by God. And sometimes through humans, and so that's depicted as the Eden.

So how does this like rivering up, Isaiah to fit into the schema then? It seems like it breaks it a little bit. Well, humans are already in Genesis 2. Humans are connected metaphorically to the spring, bubbling up out of the ground. And so it seems like Isaiah is, he's paid attention to that, and now he's-

Versing it. Yeah, and creating a new poetic image out of that narrative parallelism between the human and the spring. He's taking a slot of the metaphorical scheme. Correct. And then he's turning it upside down in order to make a point.

Well, but in Eden, the bubbling water in the human aren't bad. He's just reversing the direction of the river. Yeah, because that's right. Because idea, there's already an existing idea that the unification of humanity will be this great humanities pilgrimage to the New Jerusalem.

And this is the first place where it's expressed. So let's just back up. We're gonna go through a couple more examples, but these images are powerful. Like they're talking about deep transcendent hopes and longings. Peace with mankind. Yeah. And safety and stability in the world. Peace with God. Peace with each other. Hope that one day humans will stop killing each other. And these poems, like STS Eliot would say,

are performing raids on the inarticulate. These images are putting things in a way that you couldn't try and explain straight forwardly if you wanted to. The poem does even more than what normal words could say. And it's the power of the podcast and ourselves, we're just gonna go through the two. Yeah, those two. Those are two really good ones.

And they work together really well. And I think we're only gonna have time for two in the video. In the video. So I don't want, I feel already, I feel a little overloaded. And I think this would be a good place to stop and try to distill all of this. Thank you for putting all together. So we'll write this video and it'll come out in how to read the Bible series, how to read biblical poetry, metaphor, and look forward to it.

Yeah, me too. I think for me the hope is that the video and the podcast help us see that metaphors, yeah, aren't just like a way of being artsy. They're first of all fundamental to how we perceive reality. I think an impoverished human has doesn't have enough metaphors to live by in their life. So I think these images enrich our experience of the world. And two, for me, the thing about lay cough was so helpful was the deep interconnections of metaphors that we think in and speak in. And so that, of course, that's's true about imagery works in the Bible, that it's all interconnected.

There's really just a handful of basic concept metaphors that drive a vast majority of all of the different varieties of imagery. These two are gonna cover so much of the Bible. Totally. Yeah, whether it's God is a rock refuge fortress, the high rock, the temple garden, and it's all connected. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of thing. So it is so helpful. Actually, that leads me to question then. Do you think the value of us seeing these two metaphors

in specific that we've gone over is that now we can understand more of what the Bible is doing and see it as we're reading the Bible so we can appreciate it more. Or is it that we should actually, it needs to actually become a metaphor that we live by? Oh, I see. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I hear that. Is it important that I start thinking about danger and death like chaotic waters? I do a little bit. You get an idea when you're standing by a raging sea. You feel the power and stuff. It doesn't get that far. It's not for that far from my imagination. But it doesn't saturate my experience in the way it does these biblical authors I mean, they're obviously very immersed in this metaphor You know, there's one level at just the biblical authors It certainly expands and enriches our humanity to have another culture's set of imagery Yeah, so that's one level on which it works.

You don't even have to be religious to let the Bible enrich your life on that level. Right. But yeah, I think the point when you use metaphors also isn't the metaphor itself. It's trying to draw people towards a reality. Yeah. And in this case, it's realities of

peace with God, safety and stability, what we hope for in the future, whether the future has anything worth hoping for in it. And so, man, throw whatever metaphor you want, that those, I think. Well, because we have said that the metaphor you use does shape the way you think about it. I understand. Which then can make you act differently. I see. And so there are better metaphors than others. Yeah, got it.

But not always, I suppose. Well, you know, personally, I have found, we didn't talk about, this is the third example, the one we didn't talk about this is the third example the one we didn't talk about But the whole the depiction of humans are animals We are we are and animals and then also

The humans you know at their worst can become like animals And that's all of those through the Psalms You can just grab your enemies like animals in the book of Daniel the human the truly human one is somebody Who allows themselves to be trampled by the animal instincts of humanity that are depicted like wild beasts trampling truly human ones and to be truly human is to trampling truly human ones. And to be truly human is to rule the beasts. That's the way that one goes. And I found that personally very helpful. Rule the beast. Yes. Yeah, I've got a beast inside me. Yeah. That needs to mature if I'm going to reflect God's image very well. And to be honest, adopting that

that my baseer instincts are, they're beneath me. They're literally less than human part of me. It's kind of a dualistic way of thinking. You think? Yeah, like the instinctual kind of mammalian part of me needs to be subdued by some more divine. Well, maybe I'll say redirected and matured. Yeah, it needs to be subdued by some more Divine well, maybe I'll say redirected and matured. Yeah matured but like if I ate all the sugar and fat that I want to eat that my body wants to consume Yeah, when I taste it. Yeah, like that's what I'm talking about right and whether it's sex sleep food

just selfishness. And so the biblical imagery depicts all of that. It's not ruling over yourself. Correct. That's right. So humans are animals. To me, that's been an immensely helpful metaphorical scheme. That's helped me make sense of my own life. I do, I like it too.

I fact, but I told Tristan the other day, not the other day, the other year we're driving. And I said, you know, humans are animals. I was actually thinking about how that's something that I never really was thought about, but we are. But we're also, yeah, we're a unique creature among the animals. Creature among the animals. Yeah. But we're awesome. Yeah, whereas the unique creature in the animals. Creature among the animals.

Totally. Given the Amago Day, but we are animals. And it was super helpful for me to deal with, yeah, all these impulses, all this biology, all this stuff. It was a revelation for me. I'm an animal. Yeah, don't. No wonder all the people like one. Yep, totally. So that's one that's been really helpful for me. And we've both

talked about how the gardening human life as a garden, that's the fundamental biblical image and the idea of cultivating your life, all this stuff about gardening, the human calling, is gardening. I feel like that's a really good idea. That's been helpful for both of us. Vocation is gardening. So I do think that these biblical metaphors, there's a reason why the spirit, I think, I assume, has guided the authors to write. I guess it makes me wonder if we shouldn't use

the metaphors we use to explain what we're talking about, the illustrations. The metaphors we use as illustrations, if they shouldn't be metaphors that are good to adopt, because the chaos waters one to me, it kind of feels like it's helpful because now you can Understand you can make sense of the big sense of so much more the Bible. Yes. It's like why are they talking about waters there? Oh, yeah But it doesn't have the same umph as I see gardening as vocation. I understand so less likely to Yeah, introduce that into a more public conversation Yeah, introduce that into a more public conversation. Right. Like if you're doing a Ted Dock or something.

Sorry, you're trying to connect with people who aren't aren't religious, but you feel like, yeah, but this biblical image is compelling, it could bring in non-religious people and speak their language. Yeah. Although there is something about, I don't know, man, it really depends on where you live, I think, because the danger of the waters is a really basic human experience for many humans, for a lot of human history.

And it is today still. Whatever you think about the debate of the oceans rising. And what that means for erosion and stuff like that. I'm gonna sit with this. I'm gonna like, I'm gonna try to think about every conflict in metaphorical language of drowning. And see what it does. Yeah, that's interesting.

Yep, sure, yeah, do that. Have you ever not drowned, but on this drown? Have you ever been drowning? No. I don't think so. I've been held underwater, uncomfortably long. Mm-hmm. You know, like you're wrestling with someone in a pool

as a kid, and you get stuck for a little too long. There's that panic. Yep, yeah, there's kicks in. You realize I am overpowered here. Yeah. Yeah. And I've been out surfing or something where I'm like, yeah, am I going to get back to shore? Yeah. I'm getting pulled out pretty far. Yeah. Pretty fast. Yeah. Yeah, but I've never actually almost drowned. Have you? You saved a kid from drowning. I did. That was terrifying. That was... yeah, I don't know. I don't remember very much of it.

To be honest, I think my body just kicked in. Yeah, it was this... this tall wave. Yeah, on the working... Sneaker wave. Sneaker wave. There wasn't one like it before. There wasn't one like it after. It's not up. But man, and it carried all of everybody's stuff away and some like little kids and I grabbed one. And yeah, and what I remember was, I was like, this water is only up to my waist

and that kid's going out and just once I grabbed him and trying to stay planted while the water was receding, it was very difficult. It was so freaky. You were going to suck right now. And it was just a waste, it was just waste high water. And so, and then when the mom was describing what it was like when she was running from the wave overtaken, you You know her baby swept away. She was describing what it was like to try and you know like grab her baby and

Overpowered by the water. She was describing that experience. You know what yeah being overpowered by water. Yeah, that is yeah I've experienced that in a river. Oh, sure, yeah. Yeah, it's deceiving. Yeah, it's deceiving. All of a sudden you're like, this is so much energy. So much energy. Yeah.

It's nothing I can do. Yeah, totally helpless. Yeah, so yeah, when, yeah, those kinds of experiences, it's really intense. And so the most part, we stay away from water. It's just buried inside of us. Like we just know to stay away. And it's the fundamental image of the threat to human life on Peyton, one of the Bible. So speaking to the human condition.

I spent a lot of time in pools, so that's as far as water goes. A little different. A little different. A little different. Not as much chaos. Yeah, totally. That's much threat. Yeah.

Chaotic water. So the story of Jesus calming the waters is tapping into all of this, the gospel narratives. It's not just like, hey, that was a cool miracle. Let's add that one. No, it's very specifically chosen, that memory from cool miracle. Let's add that one. No, it's very specifically chosen, that memory from the apostles. There's a reason why it's in all the gospels.

It's tapping into both Genesis 1 and walking on the water. Both Genesis 1 and X-15, yeah, and walking on the water. Yeah, totally. It's all of this command over the chaotic waters. And this time it's not Yahweh, the Cloud Rider. It's the man Jesus. Yeah, that's true, that's awesome. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bible Project Podcast.

We're going to do a question and response episode about biblical metaphors, biblical imagery. So, if you have a question, send it to infoatjointhebibletproject.com. Please make an audio recording of your question, you can use your phone or computer or whatever you have, and try to keep it to about 20 seconds. Also, make sure to give us your name where you're from. You can send that again to infoatjothebibleproject.com. This episode was produced by Dan Gummel, and is part of all the free resources that we have at the Bible Project. We have videos that explore the Bible and show how it's one unified story that leads to Jesus. You can find those videos at youtube.com slash the Bible Project.

You can also find everything we've got at the's at thebibelproject.com. Thanks for being a part of this with us. you