BibleProject - No Other God - God E2

Episode Date: July 23, 2018

This is episode 2 in our series discussing the character and theme development of “God” in the Bible. In part 1, (0-17:25) the guys discuss the meaning of Monotheism in the Bible and Ancient Judaism. Tim offers a modern definition of monotheism as - “The belief or doctrine that there is only one God” -- Dictionary.com Tim says this is different than an ancient definition because last week, we’ve already seen that the biblical authors do not believe there’s only one Elohim. Rather, Biblical/Jewish Monotheism could be defined as = “The belief that there is one supreme Elohim (Creator and Ruler) who has no rivals among all other Elohim: Yahweh the God of Israel.” So, Tim offers resources for more accurate definitions of what the ancient Hebrews believed. William Horbury has proposed a nuanced definition: Inclusive Monotheism: Yahweh is the supreme deity in association with other divine spirits and powers. Exclusive Monotheism: Denies the existence of any divine beings other than Yahweh. However, there is no evidence that any ancient Israelites or Jews or Christians believed in that definition of “Exclusive Monotheism.” In part 2, (17:25-end) Tim continues to express his frustration with the current definition of exclusive monotheism. Tim cites several Old Testament examples. (NIV) Deuteronomy 4:35 “You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; beside him, there is no other.” In Hebrew it literally says …”know that Yahweh, he is the Elohim, there is not another besides him.” In these passages, Elohim has the Hebrew word “the” attached (ha-elohim), which means the claim being made is that Yahweh alone is the chief God, not that Yahweh is the only elohim that exists. Tim cites Michael Heiser on this point saying “ A close reading of these passages in Deuteronomy and Isaiah shows… that the denials are not claiming that other אֱלֹהִים (elohim) do not exist, but that Yahweh’s has unique and incomparable qualities in relation to other gods: Yahweh’s pre-existence, his role as creator of all things, including other elohim, his ability to save, and national deliverance. The focus is on Yahweh’s incomparable status and the impotence of the other gods. It would be empty praise to compare Yahweh to beings that did not exist. The biblical authors assume they do exists, but that they are “nothing” compared to Yahweh.” -- Michael Heiser, “The Divine Council,” The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Next week on the show, Tim and Jon discuss “The Divine Council” It will be an exciting and mind-bending episode! Show Resources: William Horbury, "Jewish and Christian Monotheism in the Herodian Age." Paul Jouon & T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew Michael Heiser, “The Divine Council,” The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Michael Heiser: The Naked Bible Podcast Psalms 97:9 Show Music: Defender Instrumental: Rosasharn Music Another Chance: Tae The Producer Produced by: Dan Gummel. Jon Collins. Matthew Halbert Howen.

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it in. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

Hey, this is John at the Bible Project. Last week, on the podcast, we began a conversation about the identity of God in the Bible, and we quickly ran into a problem. The word God in English is a terribly confusing, unclear word. In Hebrew, the word translated as God is the word Elohim. Elohim is a word that refers to a type of being,

a spiritual being, and it can refer to spiritual beings of all kinds. And that's the big takeaway from last week. Elohim, translated in your Bible as God, doesn't strictly mean the all-powerful creator God. It actually refers to a wide swath of spiritual beings, lowercase G gods. These beings exist, they have power, and they're referred to in scripture often.

According to the biblical authors, there are other Elohim, spiritual beings, and those spiritual beings as Paul the Apostle called them, can be called God-spoor-lords, like beings that do have power. So the Bible talks about another Elohim, but the Bible also has verses like this. I am the first and I am the last, besides me there is no Elohim. So which is it? Are there other gods? So it is monotheism, even a helpful word to describe what ancient Israelites believe about Yahweh among all the other Elohim.

Why this apparent contradiction will get into that today on this episode. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Alright, so we're talking about God. So the last hour was really trying to deconstruct. What do we mean when we use the word God? And then we talked about the ambiguity of that word in English or the confusion it can create. Because most people think you just when you use word God, you mean the God of the universe, the monotheistic, Jewish, Christian God. God, you mean the God of the universe, the monotheistic, Jewish, Christian God. And that's kind of the capital G God, but we use the word God to prefer to like Greek

gods with a lowercase G. And so there's all that, but I feel like if you just take that to the side and kind of just forget it for a second and then just come to the Bible and try to think in Hebrew or Jewish Greek or yeah, or New Testament Jewish people speaking Greek correct. Yeah, you kind of get a different category our different language that creates a little different categories and What I found the most helpful was in Hebrew the word Elohim, which we translate as God, is probably better translated as spiritual being because it can refer to Yahweh, Elohim, God of Israel. It can refer to the gods of

Egypt. It can refer to the manifestation of the spirit of Samuel, and it can refer to demons. We're all examples that we looked at. So it's this broad category of spiritual beings. And so where we left off was then in light of that, what did Jewish people mean when they say there is no other god but one? Because they do believe there are other Elohims. So they don't mean there's no other Elohims. So when they say there's no other Elohim but one, what do they mean? Yes, that's the question. Yeah. And the famous line in the Shema, hero is real, the Lord is our God. Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is one or some translations of it in English go Yahweh alone. So does that one mean that there is only one Elohim, one God? Well, that's the question.

So here we get into the whole other discussion and it's actually a still, a raging discussion in biblical academic studies about terminology. What terminology we bring to the Bible is monotheism, even a helpful word, to describe what ancient Israelites and Jews believed about Yahweh among all the other Elohim. If you look up, again, the English, main English dictionaries out there, if you look up the word monotheism, the definition given is the belief or doctrine that there is only one capital G God. And that's what they say, there's no God but one. There's no God. Yeah, that's right.

So it seems very simple. Yes. The problem is the English word God. And we're not going to repeat everything from the last conversation. Yeah. But that's so not helpful. Well, okay, but here's the thing. You went to an ancient Jewish person and you said,

there is no God but one. They would go, yes. And then if you said, so, you believe that there's only one God, no. Yes, yeah, good. That's a great way of putting it. No, that's not what I believe. That's not what I believe. Of course there are other Elohim.

And so you'd be, no, no, no, you just said there's no God, but one. Right. Yes. So what's the confusion here? What's like, how's this happening? So the meaning of this phrase, one God, does not mean there are no other Elohim.

What it means is there's only one supreme, all powerful Elohim that is above all the others and has no rivals among the other Elohim. Now, in dictionary.com, when it says the belief or doctrine, there's only one God. That's a capital G God. It is capital G.

So, I think that's what they mean. They mean there's one supreme God. Ah, okay. Well, if you said, well, are there angels, are there demons? Are there other spiritual entities? Yes.

Be like, sure. Yeah. But there's only one God. Yeah, the problem is, therefore, we go into the Bible with that category of capital GOD, but then we have all these other instances of lowercase. And then what do you do with that? GOD or GODS. And then it doesn't help us.

So some scholars in this debate have tried to introduce more nuanced vocabulary. So there's a Hebrew Bible nerd named William Horbury, and he proposed we use terms. He called it inclusive monotheism. Meaning, Yahweh is the supreme deity. Here's what monotheism meant to an ancient Jewish person. Yahweh is the supreme deity in association with other divine spirits or powers. Sweet as hell, let's ditch the word God and just say, in relation to other spiritual beings. That's what I've been saying.

Yeah, exactly. He would call that inclusive monotheism. And that's a helpful, I think that's helpful. Then what he would say is exclusive monotheism would be denying even the existence of any other spiritual beings. So I feel like what I grew up with was somewhere right in the middle, where you would go, well, there's other spiritual beings, but there's no other gods. Right. Meaning the Canaanite gods weren't real if they were anything it was just demonic. There's no pantheon of gods And which God reigns chief among them. There are a bunch of other spiritual beings

Right, so yeah, okay Totally and so yeah, this gets so muddy, so quick, because of our vocabulary. Because according to the biblical authors, all across the Bible, there are other Elohim, spiritual beings. Yeah. And those spiritual beings, as Paul the Apostle called them,

can be called gods, right? Elohim, or lords, like beings that do have power. Okay. Now, remember this whole thing in 1 Corinthians 8, Paul says, the idol is not a god, it's a piece of wood. And then he clarifies in 1 Corinthians 8. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't real spiritual beings out there. Or, and he says, I'm not denying the existence of spiritual beings with power. So, couldn't you ask Paul then, Or, and he says, I'm not denying the existence of spiritual beings with power. Yeah.

Lords. So, couldn't you ask Paul then, okay, you're saying there could be other Lords dominion? Why can't they also be represented by that piece of wood? Ah, they could be. Yeah, they could be, or they could not. But he's saying they're not. He's saying that wood is just a piece of wood. But that wood could represent a real Elohim that has some authority or sway or power.

And if that's true, you don't wanna go into that temple. That's bad news. But wasn't he saying that you can't eat the meat? Don't worry about it. Yeah, he says that if it's in your home, do it. Oh, but don't go into that temple, do it. But if other people are gathering in the name of... So he didn't think that the dominion of that Elohim,

that spiritual being could actually affect the meat in such a way that you would... Right. No, he says the meat belongs to God. Meat belongs to God. There's no like magical mysticism where the meat becomes. No, his concern is that when you gather with a group of people in the name of what could be a real spiritual being. Yeah. And get yourself in the presence of that being. It's not good.

It's interesting because he was he's trying to be very nuanced and decisive about how he's instructing his fellow Jesus followers to deal with a very difficult cultural reality, which is that there's this practice of sacrificing meat to these idols, and he's saying there are other gods and deities, and we need to worry about it. So don't go and participate in this practice and hang out with those people. Yeah, because that world is real. There's real spiritual beings.

But, yeah. If you're hungry and you got some of that meat, yeah, eat it. That's fine. Thank the God of Israel for making the heavens here. They did actually poison the meat. Yeah, there's no meat, there's no spiritual poison or curse attached.

Yeah, that's right, that's what he's saying. And he's saying this to a community of followers of Jesus, some of whom are ethnically Jewish and it would be total compromise to go down and get your meat from there. And then you have others who are not ethnically Jewish or maybe they are Jewish, but they don't have these group holes or cares. And so they're like, it's just whatever, it's just a stake.

Yeah. And so those cultures are clashing. Those cultures are clashing in Paul's life. Within the Christian community. And so that's the dynamics that he's navigating here. But in no case does he ever say these other spiritual beings don't exist? Right. So all the way back to this Bible nerd, really smart guy, William Horbury, is saying, okay, well, let's distinguish then. Inclusive monotheism is biblical monotheism. Yalway is the chief, supreme spiritual being in a populated universe of spiritual beings.

And let's use the word exclusive monotheism to describe that you're denying that even the existence of any other powerful spiritual beings. I just think that our understanding of the population of spiritual beings is pretty limited. Yeah. So, like, well, when you say limited, what do you mean? Appulation of spiritual beings is pretty limited. Yeah, so Like well when you say limited what do you mean? Well as soon as you start talking about spiritual beings with dominion and stuff Yeah, I'm I just don't know. Yeah got it. Well, where are we? Yeah, but like you say angel or demons? I kind of have a bad catagories. Yeah, yeah, and so what I wouldn't call those are gods I just wouldn't use that word the English word. Yeah, I wouldn't call those are gods. I just wouldn't use that word.

You would use that word. The English word. Yeah. I wouldn't use the English word god. Yeah. In which case, even though that is the word used in the Bible, no, the word is Elohim. But in your English Bible, in my English Bible word of God, the word lowercase G O D S is used to refer to those beings. Yeah. I think I've always understood it was like God's with an asterisk, you know? Like when I read that. Yeah. It always goes kind of like, like there's only one God. Yeah.

So they don't mean actually God. It must mean something else. So it's like built into the way that I was told to read the Bible. Yes. Was this understanding that that was the wrong translation? Okay. So it's so fascinating. So really let's let's live in that world for a second. Look at the I gave an example right here Of why I actually don't think William Horbury's suggestion is very helpful. I

Read Psalm 97. Nine you read it for me. Okay, Psalm 97. Nine You Yahweh are most high over all the land. What why is it parentheses? Elion. Oh, that's the Hebrew word for most high. For most high. Elion. Elion. You Yahweh are most high over all the land. You are exalted above all Elohim. So what you're saying is that the normal translation of that in all of our English translations is gods. You are exalted above all gods. And what you're saying is you would, before sitting down today, you would just have a little

aspect of that. I would do one of two things. Yeah, there's an asterisk there. And I would do one of two things. I would go, okay, all of these so-called gods, all of these cultural ideas of gods, like he's above all of them. And, or that word, God's, is not referring to a supreme being like God.

It's just referring to, I guess I don't know if I would have said it this way, and able to elucidate it like this, but I think my tendency would be to kind of downplay and be like, it's not really a god. Because anytime that kind of stuff came up in Sunday school, church, youth groups, that was kind of the answer. Yeah, whatever these, it's not really a god.

And then why does it say god? Well, because I don't know what the answer is. Yeah, so think, this is a, this is in a song of praise. So this is a song whose whole purpose, I didn't grow up with any songs like that Well, okay, so I'm just saying this is an ancient right you wouldn't get away with the hell song song You are God of the gods. I don't know. I don't know. I'm saying this is ancient Israelite song Yeah, increasing the honor and the status of Yahweh. They got a Israel

Yeah, and one thing you could say to increase the honor of the God of Israel is to say, you're exalted above all the other Elohim. It seems to me that for that line to be a statement of honor and praise, by definition means that these other Elohim are real and the Yahweh is just more powerful than them. Otherwise, it's empty praise.

Right. You know, oh, what a, what a, like you would never go to like a horse race. I've never actually been to a horse race, but you wouldn't go to a horse race and be like, oh yeah, number 10, he's faster than any unicorn. You've never do that. He's right, because it's like, well, unicorns aren't real, so what? Why wouldn't you compare them? There's no other horse on this track,

faster than number 10. That would be real prey. But that's, but all horses come from the same, it's like they're the same taxonomy. Exactly, that's exactly my point. But, yeah. But if you came and you said there's no other as difficult horses but but let's say with like cats. If you went to it like a zoo and you saw a lion

and you said there's no other feline like this lion. Oh okay. Right. You have this massive category of food. Yeah sure. And if you refer to yeah. Coopers and house cats and little critters that live in the desert. Yeah. And good. But this one is different. And there's no other one. That's the only one.

Let's just pretend it's the only one on the planet. Yeah, let's actually use the lion. Or like the, you know, Saharan lions. Yeah, the lion. The lion. There's only one. There's only one. Yeah.

Yeah. There's only one lion like the lion. No, there's only one lion. Like the lion, yeah. Yeah. There's only one line like the line. Like the line. Like this line. You were exalted above all other felines. Yes. This is a way better example than the horse. Yeah, actually, thank you for this.

Very helpful. I'm going to use this in classroom. Oh, nice. Yeah, no, it's exactly right. Elohim is a word that refers to a type of being, a spiritual being. And it can refer to spiritual beings of all kinds, just like feline, is a class of animal, of which there are many different species.

One of those species is the supreme, the king of the kings and queens of the species, or whatever. Yeah, that's exactly what's going on. So, here's why I don't think exclusive monotheism is helpful then, because this term inclusive monotheism. Monotheism that acknowledges the existence of other spiritual beings. But that's not what the word monotheism. Monotheism that acknowledges the existence of other spiritual beings. But that's not what the word monotheism means. In modern English, monotheism means the belief that there's only one God. Capital G God. Oh, sure. Yeah. But that's just so unhelpful to me.

Yeah, it is unhelpful. But think about this way, right? Can you say, inclusive monotheism is saying, let's take the feline example again. The lion is the supreme feline, and associative student with all other felines of any type. Cool, got it. Exclusive monotheism. Yeah. There's no existence of other felines other than the lion. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

And because no ancient Jewish person or Israel I'd ever believed that. So why do we even need it as a category? Got it. Exclusive monotheism. Right. That's a total modern enlightenment notion. Because our word God doesn't do the same thing

as the word God Elohim does. That would be the same. So it's a service. It's a translation problem. Yeah, yeah. So in English, it makes sense, but the problem is, is now when you're translating Hebrew text and Greek texts from Hebrew thought, it stops making sense. Yeah, that's right.

Okay. Yeah, you got it. Okay. So, with that category, okay? Well, let me try something. Let me try something. Exclusive monotheism denies the existence of any other lion except for Yahweh.

Oh, okay. Right? There's no other lion. There's no other capitalist. And it's kind of God. It's kind of like saying, if the thought experiment would be there's only one lion on the planet. It's Harry the lion at the Portland Zoo.

It's only one that exists. Yeah, it's about to go extinct. Yeah, about to go extinct. Yeah, well, though, this one lives revered. That's not fair enough. Yeah, it's about to go extinct. Yeah, about to go extinct. Yeah, well, this one lives forever. That's why I'm not sure. That's why I'm not sure. And so you would say there is no other lion,

but Harry the lion at the Portland Zoo. There's other felines. There's other felines. Tigers. And then you would say there's other felines. And so that's like saying there's no other god, but there are other spiritual beings. It just depends on how you're using the word.

Yeah, yeah, English. But it's so- When someone's saying exclusive monotheism, I think what they mean is there's no other lion. Mm-hmm. Even though- Right. Well, in which case, there's no difference between inclusive monotheism. Exactly.

That's absolutely what I'm trying to- Yes. So in which case, let's just use the word monotheism or, again, I'm trying to summarize an academic debate that's been going through decades. There's other, there's even more nerdy terms that have been thrown around, like monolotry. Monolotry? Yeah, so if idolatry is worshiping a night party game, monolotry means the worship of one. So some people use that to describe what's going on in

the Bible. The military. There are many Elohim. We worship one Elohim. Yeah. Some people have proposed the word he-know-theism. He-know. He-know, which is the Greek word one. He no means tenus. Hennus. Hennus, hand or hennus? One, so one theism. One theism. Which is the belief in, it's not about belief, it's about one supreme, it's about allegiance to one. Yeah.

And these all just arise just from, and it's not just allegiance to one, it's the belief that there's only one that has supreme power. This is one above all one. Which is why we give our allegiance to. And why we give our allegiance to. Correct. But the point is, of course, in the ancient world, that was a contested claim.

Yeah. That's what the Israelites believe about Yahweh, but that's what the Moabites say about Kemosh. And that's what the Siddonians up north say about Bale. And that's what the Babylonians claim about. Marduk, right? That they are the supreme. Yeah, each people group believed that it's God was the supreme God.

There's a debate going on. So what we have in the Bible is the Israelite claim that Yahweh is the Elhim of all Elhim. Some people are like, no, the leopard is the best feline. That's right. No, it's the panther. Yeah, that's right. It's a contested claim. Yeah. I think we're achieving clarity with how we're talking here. Got it. So there's other possible objections.

Picking up what you put down. Let's say you're reading passage in Deuteronomy that says where God says something like this. God says, Hey, I showed up in cloud and smoke on Mount Sinai, and you were shown these things so that you might know, Yahweh is God. Besides Him, there is no other. It's only hand. I think it's those kind of verses where Christians will say, yeah, there's no other God. There are no other gods.

Monotheism. Yeah, other gods don't exist. Don't exist. And just a few sentences later, Moses says, no, and take to heart today, the Lord Yahweh is God, in heaven above or earth below. There is no other. So I'm going to translate it again using Elohim. And you'll see what's happening.

In both of these cases, in Hebrew, the word THE is put in front of Elohim. In Hebrew. Ha Elohim. Did ramen me for verse 35. So that you might know that Yahweh, he is THE Elohim. There is not another besides him. Meaning, there's not another THE Elohim. There's no other THE Elohim. There's no other, the Elohim.

There might be other. By putting a the, it's saying, it means supreme. Yes, he's the Elohim of Elohim. So, exclusive monotheism is just putting an article in front of Elohim. Yeah, what this passage isn't doing is denying the existence of other Elohim. It's saying Yahweh is the chief Elohim, there is no other chief Elohim.

I like what you're doing with the lion. So when you come across these phrases, there is no other. It's not denying the existence of these other spiritual beings. It's denying that those other spiritual beings are the chief God, the chief Elohim. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense because they, you know, it's very clear that in Hebrew thought there is other Elohim. Yeah. So it has to mean something else. Yeah. Yeah. And by putting the article ha is implying that a specific supreme Elohim, yeah. It's one feline, the chief feline among all other.

He is the lion, there's no other lion beside him. The other way you can help understand these passages is... Or the feline, not the feline. The feline, yeah. Which we wouldn't really do in English. Hmm, right. I mean, there'd be kind of two poetic in a way. Oh.

I mean, it works. Yeah. But it's not a typical way of talking. Oh. I mean, it works. Yeah. But it's not a typical way of talking. It's the feline of all felines. Yeah. I guess that works, Nick. That works a little bit.

Yeah. But you wouldn't say the lion is the feline. There is not another. Oh. Besides the line. Sure. If you're really pumping up the rhetoric, yeah, which is what these passages are doing, they're making a claim.

I think it's way more confusing in English than I probably. Oh, I see. I don't think our article, the does the same work as the Hebrew articles do. I understand. Yeah, got it. Right. Yeah, I could, but it doesn't naturally. You are the fast runner. There is no other.

If you come into a building, you're like, who's the boss? No, cause there's always just one boss. There's always just one boss. Yeah, you need to go into place where there's many bosses. You go into a place and you wanna know like who's the person here who can get something done? Who's the guy I need to talk to who makes things happen?

Or gal? Or gal. Who's the person? Who's the person? And so you'd walk into a place and you'd say like, who's the dude? Who do I need? Like who's the person? Yeah.

Who's my man or woman? I'm used to, but I say man or not. Yeah, you mean the human in time. The human in time. Right, it's English. This is how we roll. Yeah. I was sound weird if I'm walking around being like, who's the human? It's not a phrase we use.

Yeah. Let me bring it back in, we can land this particular plane. The other helpful way when you, to understand these there is no other passages in the Old Testament is to look at other times that phrase is used but not talking about God. It's a really helpful example in the book of Isaiah where Isaiah is mocking the propaganda of Babylon. He quotes from this propaganda of Babylon and so he says here's what the king and queen of Babylon say of themselves. You Babylon say to yourself, I am, and there is no one besides me. So it's the same exact phrase, as in Hebrew, Yahweh is God.

There is no one beside him. So what the king and queen of Babylon are not saying is, I am king, there are no other kings in the world. Yeah. Yeah, right. It's like pretty intuitive to me. It's kind of like, yeah, got it. It's kind of, so if there was, so like, came of Thrones, the whole thing is about who's really the king,

like who rules the iron throne? That's what the whole thing's about. It's a game of thorns. Who's the actual king? Who's the rifle heir? And so if someone, if like, Queen Cersei, I don't remember all the names, but if she was like, I am the one who rules the iron throne and there's no one beside me. Yeah. Well, there's lots of other people claiming exactly. Yes. She's just saying like, yeah, there's lots of other people claiming. Exactly. Yes. She's just saying like, yeah, it's rhetoric. It's rhetoric.

It's rhetoric. Yep. So here I'll let my, again, Michael Heiser, this from a different work, factually from a dictionary entry, that he has, but on this thing about other Elohim. He says, a close reading of these passages in Deuteronomy that we looked at, and Isaiah,

shows that these denials are not claiming that other Elohim don't exist. Rather, that Yahweh has unique and incomparable qualities comparison to other gods. Yahweh is pre-existent. He's not created, he's the uncreated creator. At least that's the claim. His role is creator of all things, including the other Elohim.

He can save, like in the Exodus, right? The focus is on Yahweh's incomparable status and the powerlessness of the other Elohim. It would be empty praise to compare Yahweh to beings that don't exist. The biblical authors assume that they do exist, but that compared to Yahweh, they are no thing. They are nothing. And I think that's exactly what's happening in these no other God passages.

Which helps us go back to when Paul said that idols are no thing in the world. There's something similar going on here. Those idols might actually represent a real spiritual being. They might not, but in comparison to the one God, they are no thing. So that's where... Oh yeah, actually, this is where all the logic of making fun of idols in the Bible.

There's actually many poems making fun of idols. I have just one example. From Psalm 115. It's the most elaborate, but it goes on to say Psalm 115 are Elohim. He's in the heavens, meaning he rules over all. He does what he wants. But the idols, they're just smilver and gold. People make them. They have mouths, but they don't talk. They have eyes. They don't see. they have ears, they don't hear. This is not an argument saying, there are no other spiritual beings. Yeah. This is an argument lampooning idols.

People who have convinced themselves that these pieces of wood and stone are embodiments of divine being and that they have power, so we'll kiss them and bow down to them and make little clothes for them. It's saying, so yeah, there you go. Is in Jewish thought then, are there other Elohim, there's Elohim with dominion,

in which case, what if you did make an idol? To celebrate and represent that Elohim sure sure the idol can't speak But that Elohim's real and if you're like trying to connect to him. Yeah Yeah, that's yeah, and I think that's ultimately why Paul says don't go into the temple of Zeus and Call upon the name of Zeus with other people and and call upon the name of Zeus with other people and eat a sacrificial meal to Zeus. And then he says,

He took it to go. Yeah, take it to go. Because what he says is, Listen, you could be at the table and then he uses a Greek word to refer to a lesser spiritual being, the Greek word, Dimonion, which gets translated as demon, which is another very unhelpful English word,

because we think of little gargoyle, right? Little horned reptilian creatures with wings and pitchforks. Oh, I actually usually think of like that. You don't think of that. No, I don't. Oh, good. That's good. Yeah, I just think of, I don't know what I think of.

I just think when people cast out demons and stuff, I think that's the kind of thing. It must be something much more ethereal. Okay, yeah. A spiritual being that has a destructive influence on human behavior. Yeah. Yeah.

But I wouldn't call it God. You wouldn't call it Elohim, but the biblical authors call them Elohim. I didn't say I wouldn't call it Elohim, I said I wouldn't call it God. Well, you speak English. So what are you going to do? Spiritual Being, that's what you'd call them.

So yes, I think what Paul's navigating, some idols are just pieces of wood, they don't represent any real spiritual being. And it's so ridiculous that people bow down to it and are afraid of these things. But some of them might actually correspond to a real Elohim. And in which case, just swear off going to those buildings at all. That's Paul's advice. Because you could be in touch with a Dimonion, a lesser, which is a Greek word, meaning lesser spiritual being. The point here is just to say these biblical passages that say there's no other Elohim besides the one God doesn't mean that these Elohim don't exist. It means they're powerless compared to Yahweh.

Passages that make fun of idols as being not real once again isn't denying the existence of other Elohim. It's just saying those idols sure aren't the Elohim. Yeah, cool. There you go. It makes sense. I didn't get to land the plane with my other thought experiment with the, if you're into a business, let's say, all right.

Let's play that out. I just want, yeah. Let's say you want a, you want a bike car. Okay, you want a bike car. Yeah, so you walk into the car lot and there's a bunch of people standing around and you're like, who do I need to talk to to buy a car? And they go, oh, go talk to that guy.

Like there's no other guy but that guy that you need to talk to. No, okay. Yeah, no that could work in English. There's nobody else. There's no one else but that guy. No one else but that guy. Yeah, go talk to Rick.

There's no one else but Rick. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and what you are, you're not saying no other humans exist. You're not saying no other, and you're not even saying there's no other card salesman there. Yeah. You're just saying like, oh, yeah, Rick's the guy.

Rick's the guy. Talk with Rick. Rick will hook you up. There's nobody but Rick. You'll get you a sweet deal. Yeah, I feel it. I feel like that's normal English. That's normal English.

Nobody but Rick. I mean, you probably wouldn't say it that way, but you could. You probably say there's nobody like Rick. Nobody can get you a car like Rick. Yeah. Yeah. Don't deal with anyone else but Rick. But you could say, yeah, there's no one but Rick. Yeah, you could. And you would follow. Yeah. But you would be like, there's other people here. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's a weird way to put that. But you'd be like, oh, okay, I get it. But since we come with the category of, there's no other gods to say that you would look around, you'd be like, well, yeah, no doth, there's no other car salesman here. Rick is the only guy.

Yeah, yeah. So, yep. And anyways. Okay, so, all right. So having made that, that just raises another question. So the Bible doesn't deny the existence of other Elohim, uh-huh, than Yahweh. Yahweh is an Elohim. No other Elohim is Yahweh, but Yahweh is an Elohim, and there are other Elohim. So who are they? And what's their relationship to Yahweh? They're not as powerful of Yahweh, but do they have any power? What role do they play in the biblical story?

What role do they play in the world in the past? Today, let's talk about that. Yeah. Then that's the natural question. And the Bible has, the biblical authors actually have a storyline. There is a biblical narrative, Mark, that spans from Genesis to Revelation without these other Elohim.

So that's what we should talk about next. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bible Project Podcast. Next week, we continue our conversation on God and how he is in alone. God has a crew. Bible nerds, biblical scholars have come to refer to this category or this idea, this

theme, as the divine council. It's language and imagery depicting God as like a commander in chief of a staff of Elohim. Psalm 89. The heavens proclaim your wonders, Yahweh, even your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones. Who in the skies is similar to Yahweh, even your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones. Who in the skies is similar to Yahweh? Who among the sons of Alim is compared to Yahweh? He is the great God, which is the Hebrew word L, not Elohim. He is the great L, feared among the council of holy ones he's revered among all those surrounding him.

So the question is, does God actually seem to interact with the world through some kinds of mediators or delegated authority figures? Today's episode was produced by Dan Gummel, and today's music was made special by Tadeh the producer. The Bible project is a nonprofit organization where in Portland, Oregon, you can watch all the videos we make, listen to our podcasts, download other resources, it's all for free at thebibelproject.com. Thanks for being a part of this with us.

I am Ashley Song and I currently live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We recently used the Bible Project when we were going over the book of Philippians to introduce our daily devotions in Philippians. We showed that video to the students. Hopefully, encourage them to start daily devotions. These are students who are kind of new to Christianity, new to the concept of daily devotions. And I hope that it kind of helped them see that the Bible isn't something that we can't understand.

They can go ahead and try and read and kind of learn something from. We believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. We are a crowdfunded project by people like me. Find free videos, study notes and more at thebibletproject.com. you