BibleProject - Power Over the Snake - Son of Man E4

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

In part one (0:00-13:10), Tim recaps the series so far. He says the Son of Man title is Christ’s favorite title to use to describe himself, and it originally comes from a dream in Daniel 7. Tim then recaps Genesis 1 and 2. Humans are created after the animals but are then called to rule over the animals. So the creation and power order is inverted. Humans are overcome by the animals when they listen to the serpent, and humans embrace an animal-like state. Tim emphasizes that flowing out of Genesis are two lineages: a human lineage, the seed of the woman, and an animal lineage, the seed of the serpent. And at some point, a Son of Man will deliver the seed of the woman from the seed of the serpent. In part two (13:10-18:30), Tim and Jon dive into the imagery of animals in the Bible. Jon asks what is the proper relationship with animals for people to have. Tim speculates that animals are meant to be in a peaceful relationship with humans. And a peaceful connection with the animals is an image the prophets use to describe a new creation. (Lions, lambs etc. ) In part three (18:30-33:50), Tim dives further into Genesis. He examines the inverted first born/second born relationships in the book. Abraham has two children, Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael is the firstborn but is not chosen by God. Instead, God chooses Isaac. Then later in the story, Isaac has two sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob is the second born and is chosen by God. Tim points out that the pattern is intentional. In part four (33:50-end), Tim then moves into the account of the Exodus. Pharaoh says he wants to deal “shrewdly” with the Hebrews. This is a synonym of the snake saying it is the “crafty” beast. Pharaoh is now embracing an animal-like tendency and seeking to harm the Hebrews. Then Tim dives into the story of the burning bush. God tells Moses to turn his staff into a snake ( snake (נחש) ). Many western readers see this story as some sort of magic trick that God is telling Moses to do. That's far from what's happening. Tim says the story is actually meant to portray Moses as a successful “son of man” who has power over the snake. This point is further emphasized when Moses and his brother Aaron go before Pharaoh to demand the release of the Hebrews. Aaron throws down his staff and it becomes, in Hebrew, a sea serpent. This is a different word than the previous word used for snake. Exodus 7:8-13: "Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, “When Pharaoh speaks to you, saying, ‘Perform a sign,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a sea serpent (תנין).’" So Moses and Aaron came to Pharaoh, and thus they did just as the Lord had commanded; and Aaron threw his staff down before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a sea serpent (תנין). Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts. For each one threw down his staff and they turned into sea serpents (תנין). But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs. Yet Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said." Tim says the point is Moses and Aaron becoming associated characters. They are humans who have power over the snake. Literally. They grab snakes and symbolically they prevail over Pharaoh. This theme is picked up by later biblical authors who see the symbolism and use the same word, “sea serpent,” to describe Israel’s enemies. Isaiah 51:9-11: "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; [// the arm of Moses with the staff] Awake as in the days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not You who cut Rahab in pieces, [= Israelite name for the god of Egypt] Who pierced the sea-monster (תנין/tanin) Was it not You who dried up the sea, The waters of the great deep; Who made the depths of the sea a pathway For the redeemed to cross over? So the ransomed of the Lord will return And come with joyful shouting to Zion" Ezekiel 32:2: “Son of man, take up a lamentation over Pharaoh king of Egypt and say to him, ‘You compared yourself to a young lion of the nations, Yet you are like the monster (tanin) in the seas." Thank you to all of our supporters! Have a question about the Son of Man? Send it to us as we begin preparing for an upcoming Q+R episode. Show Produced By: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents Where Peace and Rest are Found, Beautiful Eulogy Conquer, Beautiful Eulogy Mind Your Time, Me. So. Show Resources: Son of Man Video: https://bit.ly/2D3wD9o Gerhard von Rad, Genesis: A Commentary Crispin Fletcher-Louis, Jesus Monotheism Richard Bauckham, Living with Other Creatures

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it in. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

Hey, this is John at the Bible Project. Today, we continue a conversation about the biblical theme we're calling the Son of Man. Son of Man is phrased in the Bible. It literally means the human one. And it is the way that Jesus most often refers to himself. It's an idea, a theme that begins in page three of the Bible, Genesis three. So if you remember, Genesis three,

there's a snake, he's a beast, but also some sort of spiritual evil and he convinces humanity, Adam and Eve to rebel against God. And so God tells the snake that there's gonna be two lineages moving forward. The seed of the woman, the son of man, who one day crushed the snake,

and the seed of the snake. What does that mean to and the seed of the snake. What does that mean to be the seed of the snake? It's giving ourselves over to powers and thoughts and systems that take us not forward into life. It takes us backwards into competitive, violent rivalry that results in all of this being destroyed. It takes us back into chaos and nothing goes. In this episode, we're going to see how this theme, to see the snake develops through Genesis and then into Exodus. We'll look at Cain, Jacob, Joseph's brothers, and we'll see how they all give into the snake.

All that does is just reinforce to you that man, we need some different humans. Every human I'm meeting in this story, there are some have positive traits, but they're always balanced by really horrible traits. And those horrible traits are almost always connected to animal things in the storyline. So you walk out of Genesis going,

dude, we need a new and different kind of human around here. Ben will get into the book of Exodus, and we'll look at Moses. And we'll look at something I've always overlooked. Moses is told by God to turn a staff into a snake, to grab it, control it, and that's going to be the sign to Pharaoh that he comes with God's authority and power.

And when the prophets read the Exodus story, like when Isaiah goes back and talks about it, he reads the Exodus narrative as a portrait of the snake crusher. He reads the story of the past as giving us imagery and language to talk about our hope for the future, but that was planted all the way back in Genesis 315, that we're waiting for a human, a son of man, who won't give into the beast and be enacting like a beast, but one who will conquer the beast. All of that and more on today's podcast.

Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Okay, so we are talking about the Son of Man. This is an ongoing conversation, so Tim, would you do me the pleasure of giving a recap? Okay, recap. Son of Man, whether or not we start the video with this hook, this is how we begin our conversation, that Christ or Messiah is one of the most consistent titles used to describe Jesus throughout the New Testament, except in the Gospels. And that's true, except for in Jesus' own words. He almost never calls himself

by that title. And when people do call him that title, he usually switches to using a different title, which is the phrase the son of man. We're literally in Greek, the son of the human. The son of the human. The word that is in front of both Greek words, the son of the human. It doesn't roll off the tongue quite as much. No, so this is, Gio's is most consistent title, just call himself. And then we talked about where he would have got a phrase

like that, and why that's important. It's a Hebrew phrase, but it's clear that he was referring to a key chapter in the book of Daniel. And that chapter is a dream that Daniel has about a human who's getting trampled on by the beasts that represent the empires of the world. And then God brings judgment on the beast and invites the human one to float up on the divine cloud, up to the divine throne room and participate in God's rule over the world.

Sit on a throne next to God. Sit on a throne next to God and be worshiped and served along with God, all humanity. So, a dream Daniel had. It's a dream Daniel had, we talked about that, and about how that dream is bringing together in that imagery, it's providing a climactic conclusion to the whole biblical, it's anticipating the conclusion of the whole biblical storyline,

of humans in the image of God, put in an exalted place to rule over the world with God and on God's path. And that's what we talked about after the Daniel's vision is that all for humans rule the world. That's right, yeah. So that Daniel 7 assumes that you've really internalized what's going on in Genesis 1 with humans

that come after the animals in the order of Genesis 1. In the order of how things appear in Genesis 1. Yeah, not in Genesis 2. But in Genesis 1, the humans come at the climactic point of the story and after the animals are made. But yeah, they are said to rule over the animals, which sets up a conflict because on Genesis 3, you have an angry animal.

A disgruntled animal. Yeah, there's a whole backstory behind, but one thing that's for sure is that animal is and represents something that doesn't want to be ruled by anybody, and certainly, and certainly not humans. Yeah, this snake. Nakhash. Nakhash. So we talked about how the Nakhash is a narrative image that clearly you're supposed

to assume there's more than meets the eye here. But it's not less than an animal. It seems to be an animal and more than an animal. But the fact that it's an animal who's overcoming the human, it ends up being this tragic reversal of the divine ideal for humanity. And then the moment humans are overcome by the animal, in Genesis 3, they actually start behaving like animals. And this links back to Daniel's vision and then its animals that are trampling.

That's right. It's mutant animals. Mutant animals, yeah. Yeah. Like the best way to describe a humanity going to rye. Yeah, is the images of mutant animals mutant animals Yeah, that's right And so then you get this animal like behavior the animal urge that's yeah that surfaces out of cane Remember the animal urge to

He goes brother. Yeah, that's crouching for you and then what does he do? He kills his brother like an animal and then his descendants do do the same. And so violence keeps spreading, spreading, spreading, leading up to the Tower of Babylon, and the city of Babylon, where he have humans now in their animal-like state, exalting themselves up to the heavens as if they can declare themselves to rule over heaven and earth. What was the thing about Nimrod? Oh, he's the first animal slayer.

He's the grandson of Ham. Who's the son of Noah? Who's the son of Ham, the son of Noah? Ham does that sketchy thing with his dad. He gets a curse, brought down on him, and Ham becomes the grandfather of Nimrod, who's the first animal slayer, in terms of like a hunter. He's a hunter.

And he's a violent warrior. He's a gibor in Hebrew. And then he goes and builds Babylon, and then his son goes out and finds a Syria. So the two biggest bad guys in the entire Bible come from Nimrod. Come from Nimrod, who comes from Ham, who's connected with this

trajectory of Humans in Genesis one through eleven of people who are duped by the animal and therefore start to act like animals Duped by the animal in the in the idea of the snake Yeah, and then also with sin being and Genesis Sin is depicted as an animal is depicted as an animal that gets humans to act like animals. Right? What's the McCain murders this brother? So that's the overall portrait.

That's where we've been so far. There's a really robust portrait about humans and animals emerging out of this here. So it seems like it's important to you to say humans acting like animals. And I want to make sure I understand how you're getting there. Yeah, what leads you to use that language? Yeah, got it. So you have an animal overcoming a human in Genesis 3. Okay.

Then those humans go out with a programmatic statement given in God's words to the serpent that there'll be two lines, two lineages emerging out of the story here. An animal line, a seed of the serpent, and then a human line, the seed of the woman, and the human line is going to, at some point, crush and overcome the serpent, the serpent line and it's linear. But the animal line is more than animals. Well, in Genesis 3, it's combined with the idea of- It's giving you an image of baby snakes, but then you go, well, okay, but baby snakes. Yeah. The next story is about a human, right? The woman gives birth to two humans, but then one

of those humans has a metaphorical animal crouching at its door. Yeah, sin. And it is overcome by that animal temptation. Yeah. And then takes on the behavior of an animal and slaying his brother. So, Kane, he's not the seed of the serpent. He's on an analogy too, or he becomes metaphorically. But then you learn, oh, this wasn't about baby snakes. Who cares about baby snakes? The point is about humans who are acting like animals because they give in to the animal. The animal inside. The animal inside.

So the snake in Genesis 3 is mirrored by the paired story of the animal sin. So it's the seed of the snake. The seed of the snake is kind of a spiritual evil. Or a moral evil? It's humans giving your... That makes you realize it's in a moral evil. Yeah. I mean, it's humans redefining good and evil. Isn't this great? We're always talking about

cane and able. Yeah. But how how can an able both replays and intensifies the portrait of Genesis 3 of humans and animals, they mutually illuminate each other. And the way that Cain faces his animal is that it's inside, it's an inner urge to redefine good and evil so that what's in my best interest is to eliminate the life of another for my well-being. And this is what's keeping the humans from ruling? Yes, that's why violence is tied in here. So humans,

acne like animals as humans, being reduced to violent behavior for their own best interests, which is the opposite, apparently, of a human who truly knows how to rule the world in the wisdom of God, the state opposite. Yeah. And so all of a sudden, humans killing each other in violence becomes the main portrait of what's wrong with humans in Genesis 3 to 11. Yeah.

And then turns corporate with Babylon to get Nimrod building an empire. Then you've got whole empires that are acting like animals. And God's like, I don't want this to go down. That's right. So that whole narrative trajectory, like later biblical authors, they see all this. That's why the primary metaphor for Babylon

and the prophets is of wild animals, including the book of Daniel. So it becomes a story of an actual animal in a human in Genesis 3 becomes a story of humans facing their own inner animal throughout the rest of the biblical story and how the beast is going to be overcome. But this puts us in a quandary. The beast has to be overcome.

But God doesn't want to destroy humans. He wants humans to rule the world along beside him. So somehow the beast has to be defeated and overcome in a way that doesn't destroy all humanity. Even though humanity has become a beast. So how do you destroy the beast without destroying humanity? And that becomes, I think that's kind of the interesting thing of what we could do with the Son of Man video. Humans keep acting like animals. Yeah. God has to deal with humans in their animal-like state, but his goal is to move them into a

restored humanity. He's like the plot tension. The plot. He could drive the video. Thanks. I like that. ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃən ʃə Now, we are mammals. Yes, we are. And in Genesis 1, we were created on the same day as animals.

That's right. And we emerged from the ground. Yeah. We go back to it. And there's a close relate in Genesis 2. Remember, there's no corresponding one for the human plan A. You know, it's not good for the human to be alone. Right. And so plan A is the animals.

Yeah. God makes the animals. Yeah, hang out with the animals. So there's this close connection. Like, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And that narrative in Genesis 2, you got man. He's alone. Yeah. God's like, oh, make up some animals, name the animals. Yeah. It's still not good enough. That's right. It doesn't correspond to him. But I think the point isn't that it's like apples and oranges. Right. It's close. But it's not, it doesn't correspond. Yeah. And so then that makes the conflict between human and animals this kind of tragic, this tragic past that we've lost.

Which is why peace with the animals, as we're going to see in the profits, becomes a huge image of a new creation of peace with the animals. So there's something we've lost, you know? We have a connection to the animals that we've lost when we only see them in zoos or eat them. So now there's, I feel like we're saying two opposite things then, which is one, the sense of lost peace with the animals, this connection to the animals. The other one is that we're fighting this inner animal. It's kind of like, yeah, animals are good and we need to be buddies with animals. Animals are dangerous. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, that's a good point. But I think that's the animal imagery conserve multiple purposes. John, that's a really good observation.

Thank you for pointing that out. Peace with peaceful animals is an Eden image. Okay. Expelled from the garden. Humans become dangerous. Like dangerous animals. Like dangerous animals. And animals become dangerous.

And then they can become images of each other. Dangerous humans and dangerous animals. Yeah, that's right. Animals are very nature dangerous. That's true. Yeah, unless you threaten them. We'd but that's true of humans too. Yeah, we talked to them.

I don't know, I exist. I think humans. Yeah, I mean, we're probably a little more destructive. Oh, yeah, a little more dangerous. Oh, for sure. It's just like, you hear these stories of people who have like a pet ape, you know? And the pet ape's all friendly and they're like, oh, this ape would never hurt anyone.

And then someone comes over and the ape bites their face off. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Or they've had a tiger for five years and then one did just like kill someone. And you're like, oh, that's right. It's an animal. They're wild. But there is this biblical prophetic hope of something different, an actual piece.

You could actually have a pet ape, and it won't rip it. That's right. It's someone's facing off. And in the background, or all of our conversations about how metaphors work in the Bible. So it doesn't necessarily mean there's a video camera footage of the new creation, right? These images of peace with the animals. We'll look at some later on. Rather, it's using an experience that we know, our feeling, this connection to the animals

that has been lost. And we also know the feeling of fear of animals. And then imagine a world where there is no fear, but only peace with the animals. When you think of that and it warms your heart, it's like a little taste of... My four year old has no fear of animals. You've mentioned this before. Yeah, you'll wanna have a...

Still, is that still the case? I think so. You think if he saw like a python, he would wanna go after it. I don't know about a snake. There's something about snakes. I'm not sure about snakes. Like a fuzzy grizzly bear.

But yeah, I like, oh, what was it? We were trying to explain to him. They shouldn't hug bears and he's like well the nice ones I'm like nope, there's no nice bears. They don't hug bears. Well stop He's like okay, but the nice ones. Yeah, right. Yeah, he doesn't get it. Okay. Well here's where we're gonna go from here Yeah, this may Yeah, he doesn't get it. Okay. Well here's where we're gonna go from here. Yeah. This may or may not be content Relevant to the video. So I kind of want to just fly over this But the animal imagery doesn't stop when we leave the early Genesis narratives It continues to resonate in the background because it's a big thing in Genesis 3 to 11 Right the corruption of humanity and their animal-like behavior.

And so it continues. Animal imagery plays a significant role throughout the biblical story moving out of Genesis. So I thought I'd just kind of hit on some. Yeah. To point out. It's like the greatest hit. Yeah, exactly, 1, 1 So you move out of Babylon, scattering Babylon, and God selects one line out of

the people groups from that part of the world, and that leads to Abram and his family. God says Abram through your line, that blessing of the new humanity and the new creation, the blessing for all nations is going to come through your family. But remember, just like from the woman, there came two brothers, you know, an older and a younger, and then there was conflict. One of them is angry and acts like an animal. That motif replays through every generation in the book of Genesis. So the first born and the second born. Totally. That's right. So Abraham ends up having his first two sons, our Ishmael first and then Isaac. And just like Cain and Abel,

it's the second born who is the line that God chooses as the line of promise. And it's an interesting that there's conflict between the two of them in Genesis chapter 16 and 21. And the imagery used to describe that conflict is Genesis 1612. Ishmael will be a wild donkey of a human. He's going to be a wild animal. Sounds like an insult to you.

A wild donkey of yours. Well, and Ishmaelites are connected to the desert tribes that were southeast of the land of Israel. The original lights are connected to the desert tribes that were south-east of the land of Israel and they end up being in different periods of peace and conflict and so on. But the wild out there. The wild desert.

Like wild donkey. They roam the steps. You know that kind of thing. What does that mean, roam the steps? Oh, like the desert steps, you know, like the plateau steps. Cool. So, there we go, just steps. Oh, like the desert steps, you know, like the plateau steps. Cool. So, there we go. Just two brothers again, first born second born.

And once again, that first born who isn't the chosen line is depicted as an animal. Okay. Connected with animal imagery. Jacob and Esau, the next generation, Isaac has two sons, Jacob and Esau. Esau comes out first. First born. First born. It's Harry. So Harry. Yeah. He's a hairy man. He eats like an animal. Remember the first story is about how he comes in from the field and he's hungry and Jacob's making this bowl of stew and isa says, he's in Hebrew, he says, give me that adom adom.

Give me that red red stuff. And then he's sat and ate it. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog.

And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's like a little bit of a dog. And he's in Hebrew, he says, give me that adorn the dome. Give me that red, red stuff. And then he sat and ate and he drank and he got up and it's just all these verbs in a row. Yeah. As if he's just like warping it down. Okay.

So anyway, thanks. Esau is like an animal. Okay. And Jacob, we comes out grabbing his brother's a cave. His heel. His heel. his brother's a cave. His heel. His heel, a cave. A cave. And so they give him the name Jakov

to match what he came out doing. And the word for to grab someone's heel, like to trip them, became one of the Hebrew words for like to see avert a trick somebody. It's not his very name. His name means heel grabber, which means to trick somebody. This is the second one. This is the second one.

And do you remember all the way back to Genesis three, the conflict between the snake and the woman? Yeah. So God says to the snake, there'll be conflict between your seed and her seed. And then the woman's seed, he will crush your head, and you will crush his heel. The snake is the one who tries to get the heel to trick people. And the next time the word heel is used in the book of Genesis is to describe Jacob coming out

grabbing his brother's heel. So it know, it's not a coincidence. No, no, no, this is so hyperlinked. It's like a glowing blue hyperlink. Click on me. Click me, click me. And then you put Jacob's birth story on top of Genesis 3 for 15. And Jacob is on analogy to the snake.

Now the snake is the first born Now the snake is the first born and the Jacob is the second born. Oh yeah, but that's right. It's just in their roles in relation to people's heels. Who else have I heard about someone grabbing and snatching onto the heel of another? Oh yeah, it was a snake. And this is how hyperlinks work.

When biblical authors want to suggest a comparison between one character and early biblical character, they'll use the language from that earlier story. You made a point earlier, though, to show how the animals were the first creators. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And the humans then are the second. Yeah, so this one...

And then the second is supposed to rule the first. Correct. And that becomes this biblical motif of the second born rule, the first born. So that's the creative twist with Jacob and Esau. The first comes out and he's an animal, all right. Yes. The second one comes out. And he should be the...

And he's no better. I see. So that should be the unexpected. Yeah, that's the twist in the plot. They're both animals. Neither one of them deserve to be the chosen one. He's acting like an animal too, and the way that the snake was acting, they've grabbing the one. Totally. That's right. So they come out of the womb, and Rebecca, their mom, gets this

promise from God that two nations are in your womb. One people will serve the other, the older will serve the younger. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, one is going to rule, the younger is going to rule, just like can enable an Isaac and Ishmael, but they're both animals. And actually, you could, But can enable, it wasn't the able is going to rule, but that he was favored over.

That's right, yeah, that's right. And here Jacob is getting that. He's getting the favor. That favor. Second born in the favor over the first one. But Jacob doesn't just receive favor, he's going to steal it from his brother. He's going to trade it for that bowl of stew. And then he's going to, um, remember cheat his old blind father. Out of it by dressing up as his animal brother. He kills an animal to make himself feel like an animal.

So notice the animal imagery. It's like permeates the Jacob story, and he saw. And he didn't have to do that because he was already gonna get the blessing, or no, it's still, you don't know. That becomes, yeah, exactly. That becomes a little up to the father. Totally. And actually Isaac, his dad, wanted Esa.

He loved Esa. Yeah. And so this is the crazy, this is how book of Genesis starts spinning your brain. Jacob's evil actually, God is able to work and then through Jacob's evil to accomplish this purpose anyway, which is the point of the whole Joseph story. He is as humans, we've become animals.

Yes, yeah. So redeemed humans. So speaking of, let's talk about the next generation Joseph and his brothers. Yeah. So Jacob hasn't learned anything. It was his father's favoritism that ruined he and he saw his relationship. He has 12 sons and he favors one of them more than the other the youngest the second the youngest. Yes. That's right. Yeah, and he gives them you know the coat the yeah the coat of Yeah, the coat of many colors. The color of many colors.

So his brothers hate him. Oh, and then Joseph has those dreams. And what his dreams about? The brothers will serve him. And particularly, he's going to rule as a king over his brothers. Genesis 1, language. Okay. One ruling over the others.

The late born, the late comer, ruling over the others, the late born, the late comer ruling over the first comer. The pattern is painfully clear now. Painfully clear. It's what the whole book of Genesis is about. And so just like Keynes, anger and violence was aroused by this, just like Esau's was,

so Joseph's brothers hate him. And so they're gonna murder him, but they decide to spare him and only sell him into slavery. Yeah, it's a nice move. And in the ironic twist, what they end up doing is not killing him, but they kill an animal

and dip the colored coat in the animal's blood and take it to Jacob. Oh, it's a good idea. So he thinks an animal killed his son. So here's the animals again, animals killing human. He thinks an animal killed his son. So here's animals again, animals killing human, but this time it's a lie. So there's an every generation, Genesis dude, I'm telling you. So the amazing animal stuff is not a coincidence. No, it's all intentional. They're like using all these animal stuff intentionally. That's right. So here, the brothers are acting like animals.

Yeah. Which is symbolized by them killing an animal. Yeah animal to make them make to trick their father. Just like Jacob tricked his father, Isaac. So now, a lot of kids tricking their fathers, a lot of sibling rivalry. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, for me, it's the whole thing and a lot of violence and a lot of violence and a lot of comparing people to animals. So, book of Genesis, you end up- And every generation, the second born

is gonna rule over the first born. Yeah, the late born, that's right. The late born in Joseph's case. So, all that it does is just reinforce to you that man, we need some different humans. Every human I'm meeting in this story, there's some have positive traits, but they're always balanced by really horrible traits.

And those horrible traits are almost always connected to animal things in the storyline, and specifically violent behavior. Violent behavior. So you walk out of Genesis going, dude, we need a new and different kind of human around here. And then you enter the Exodus story. So these are the descendants of, we find high,

is this okay? Yeah. It's cruising, can't we? Yeah. So we go into Exodus and the descendants of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob are multiplying in Egypt. Yeah. There's a whole crew now.

Yep. And the king of Egypt, the new king of Egypt, says, well, there's way too many of them. He makes up a story. He makes up a propaganda to demonize the Israelites and he says to his people, look, they're going to be too many. And man, if we ever are in a battle, they're going to fight against us with our enemies and then leave the land, which is, of course, what exactly what ends up happening. This God fights against them and they join the

battle and they leave the land. So his fears come true, but not at all. That way you expect it. No. And his first line to the Egyptians in Exodus 1 is he says, come, let us deal shrewdly with them. Hmm, same word with the snake. This is the snake. It's a synonym. A synonym. But it's meant to recall the snake, type portrait.

Of here, the ones got his place here with the blessing. And like the snake, he's here to try and turn that into a curse and it all backfires on him And specifically he tries to drown all the boys, right? Mm-hmm. And then there's one particular boy who gets thrown into the waters, but in an arc. Yeah, we've talked about all the work We've talked about this before. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we Yeah, we have. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The basket. I know it as a basket. That's right. It gets translated as basket, although I think this is Moses. This is Moses. Baby Moses. Baby Moses. But I forget if we've looked at this before, the thing that Moses' mom puts him in is called in Hebrew at Teva. The word Teva is used only one other time in the Hebrew Bible, and it's Noah's Ark.

Noah's Teva. Yeah, Noah's Teva. And they fulfill the same purpose in each story, that it's God rescuing the promised seed that it's God rescuing the promised seed through the waters of death, and that seed is going to be carried to the top of a mountain to meet with God and perform a key act of intercessory mediation. Hmm. Okay.

So like Noah got through the flood in the Tava. He lands on a mountain. And offers a sacrifice. Off a sacrifice. And God says, okay, I'm not going to destroy humans after all anymore. Well, excuse me, I'm not going to destroy humans like I... But then he grows a vineyard and gets drunk. Yeah, and then he replays all the time.

And then, so Moses goes through the waters in the Tava. Yeah. And he doesn't land on a mountain. No, no, he doesn't. He lands in Pharaoh's house. He gets adopted in the Pharaoh's house. That's right. And then he takes Israel to a mountain. That's right. Yeah, after leaving Egypt on the macro level. Yeah. No, the portrait of Moses' life is set on analogy to the story of Noah and

Abraham and all kinds of other characters. No accident. Not it. It was very intentional. But yes, in the King James, they call it. They're good old King James. Yeah, when Moses' mother could no longer hide him, she took for him in Ark. Thanks. Thank you, King James. Yeah, most translation to basket.

Okay, the reason why that's significant is because Noah was with the animals. He was a new Adam. Oh, yeah. With the animals in Ark. The Ark was a little micro-edin and then he got off and blew it in another garden. Right? Yeah. So this is how the pattern design patterns work. So,

once I think of Moses as a Noah-like character, I'm gonna be thinking, I'm looking, I'm thinking everything that characterizes Noah, I'm looking for correspondences. That's what these hyperlinks are meant to do. And lo and behold, in the Burning Bush story, there's this moment where Moses says, listen, I'm going to go to the Israelites and tell them you sent me to rescue them. And he says, what if they don't believe me? Or listen to what I said. They might say, the Lord hasn't appeared to you. This is Exodus chapter four. So the Lord said to him, hey, what's that in your hand? And he said, it's a staff. Then God said, throw it on the ground. So he threw it on the ground. And it became a nakhas. A nakhas. A nakhas. A nakhas. Yeah, a snake. It's the word for snake from Genesis 3. Knock us. Knock us. Yeah, a snake. It's the word for snake from Genesis 3. And he ran away from it.

Yeah, as you would. Yeah, imagine. She's... But then the Lord said to Moses, no, no, no, stretch out your hand and grab it by its tail. By its tail. Grab that snake. I'm just supposed to crush its head. Is that the point? Isn't that interesting? Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't get its head, it gets the other end. But it surely meant to make your imagination go back to that. Think about that. Yeah. So we stretch out his hand, he took it, caught it, and it became a staff again in his hand.

And God says, this is so that they may believe that the Lord the God of your Father has appeared to you. So Moses is... So this isn't just a parlor trick. There's something behind this imagery. He's a new Noah. He's a new Adam. Oh, and he has power over the snake.

Yep. Alright, so this is well awkward, but maybe funny too. John and I are coming from the future. In the present. In the past podcast, we actually lost the last 15 minutes of the conversation that you were just listening to. And so we realized that just recently. And so here we are having the conversation again, months and months later.

Five, four months later. Yeah, totally. And your voice, your six. Yeah, till I had a science of fiction this week. So that's why my voice sounds different. But this is such a cool thing. This whole thing about Moses grabbing and having power over the snake.

It's really cool. We had a fun conversation about it, at least we remember that we did. We thought we would try and have it again. Let's do it. Sweet. Okay, so let's pause here. The whole significance is that of Moses is that Moses is introduced into the story with the imagery of all of the momentum of the previous characters from the book of Genesis.

So member Genesis 3.15, we're looking for a human who will have power of the snake, who won't give in to the beast and act like a beast, but rather will act like the true human that God has called humans to be. And so most of the characters in Genesis fail. They're likened to animals. Jacob is even likened to a snake who grabs the heel. Yeah, he's the grabber. He's the heel grabber.

Yeah. So when we're introduced to Moses, the author really wants to connect him to this hope for a new Adam with power of the snake. And we've talked before in a different podcast about how Moses is super close to becoming kind of like this new Adam. Yeah, he's the closest character

up to that point in the biblical story. Yeah, sure. I mean, he gets to go up on the sacred cosmic mountain. Yeah, and he comes down and his face is like a tablet. Yeah, he's actually sees God on his throne. And yes, exactly. So leading up to that, put in a little arc in the waters, again, likening him to Noah, who is himself a kind of Adam 2.0.

Really, what we're talking about is design patterns. When we did the How to Read Biblical Narratives, we did that thing about design patterns. It's stories later on in the Bible are patterned after and interconnected with earlier stories through common words, hyperlinks, motifs, and images. And we're tracing the pattern of animal imagery. Yeah, the human with power over the evil beast.

That's what we're waiting for. And humans who become like beasts. Or humans who be given to the beast and become like a beast. That's right. So Moses is gonna go confront the powers of evil in Egypt and Pharaoh. And the sign that he carries with him is that he has power over snakes. Yeah. His staff becomes a snake.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. So here's what's fascinating is, so we just looked at that story in Exodus chapter four. Yeah. and that was he was by himself right up on top of Mount Sinai before the burning bus. Yep. When he had power over the snake. Yeah, so that's cool, but the thing is he needs to be able to like do this in public. Yeah, to convince people. So the narrative of Moses and then Aaron actually performing the sign is in Exodus 7. It's just fascinating. We have to read it because it develops the ideas here. Exodus 7, verse 8. Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron saying,

when Pharaoh speaks to you saying, performance sign, this is like in Pharaoh's courtroom, you're going to go and Pharaoh's going to be like, prove that your God is real and that I should let the people go. So Pharaoh will say, perform a sign, then Moses, say to Aaron, take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a sea monster. In Hebrew, Tanin.

Tanin. Tanin. Yeah, I remember this. So it's a different word. So the first time, it becomes a kash, which is the word of snake from Genesis 3. Yep. And now you're like, okay, he's the one

that can somehow rule a snake and he's gonna rule the snake in order to fight against evil. This is his whole theme. Then he goes to do the trick. That's right. In front of Pharaoh, but it turns into something different. Well, a related word and it's a significant difference. So in most English translations, the Exodus 4 story is snake or serpent. Yeah, in Exodus 7, it's a different Hebrew word. It says snake in NIV. But NIV says snake,

ESV says serpent, word. But it says snake and NIV. But NIV says snake, ESV says serpent, new American standard versions of serpent. In other words, they don't register the difference, our English translations. Right. But in Hebrew, there's an important difference, because the Tannin is no mirror. No, no ordinary. Not just like a ground snake. It's the same word that appears in Genesis one. Yeah, on the day three. on day 5, for the water swimmers. Well God makes the water swimmers and then it says, and he also made the tanin, which gets translated as I think enormous sea creatures or great sea creatures, but the ESV there gets it right, sea monster.

The tanin is the sea monster. Yeah, yeah. This is otherwise known as Leviathan. The same Leviathan from like the book of Job and... What's Leviathan? That's right. Leviathan is another name for the same... How do you spell this in English?

Creature. Tannin, two ends? Two ends. That's how you translate it. If you Google Image Search, you get a ton of, oh, it's a chemical. I was open to find like that. Or Tannin. Tannin. You Google Tannins. get a ton of, oh it's a chemical. I was open to find my gun.

Oh, a tanning. A tanning. You Google tanning. I was hoping that I'd seen what's to a show. If you put in the word tanning and Hebrew, there he is. The Jewish, oh my goodness. This one looks like an alligator shark. And a pleasaur, some kind of like dinosaur.

Wow. It's the tanning. And this is the thing that, and other cultures like. Yes. Yes. Was a big deal. That's right. The Canaanite neighbors up to the North,

who left a huge library behind. On the city of Ugarit, left behind the Ugritic tablets, and the Tannin, who is also known as Leviathan, in their literature, is the mythological chaos monster who resists the chief god and is responsible for death and chaos and evil in the world. And is it also related to the Babylonian one where... Oh, yes. The Babylonian counterpart is Tiamat, or Tiamat, who is the ocean waters.

Yeah. And the personified as a sea dragon. As a sea dragon, that marduk fights to become king of the universe. So the whole point is, the fact that the narrator uses a different Hebrew word to describe what the staff becomes before Pharaoh and his sorcerers is significant.

So keep reading. So this is still in God's command. So do this. So it will become a tonneen, Exodus 7 again. Which would be intense. Yeah. I mean, it's intense enough for it to become a snake. You know, a staff like also in the square manner. That's crazy. That's crazy. But it would have to like morph into like this massive beast that's supposed to live in water and now all since flopping around, ferros. And because that's hard for moderns to imagine,

I think that's behind, that's the motivation behind translating it as well. It must just mean also a snake. This word must also mean snake. The word doesn't mean snake. And then some people think, well, oh, maybe it's crocodile. But then you have to,

because we're thinking how to literally translate the image. But you still have to explain, well, why is it snake and Exodus 4, but crocodile and Exodus 7, that doesn't make any sense. So again, these narrators are interested in the theological meaning and significance of these images. Okay, so Exodus 7. So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh. They did just as the Lord commanded, Aaron threw the staff before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a Tannin.

So Pharaoh also called for his wise men and sorcerers and the magicians of Egypt, and they did the same with their magic arts. Each one threw down his own staff and they also turned into Tannin. So it's the showdown of Egypt and their pagan magic and the nations that are pressed innocent. They have their own chaos monster under their control. But then there's Yahweh who controls the Chaos Monster through Moses and Aaron. And then the next thing that happens is, but Aaron's staff swallow it up their staff. So who's got the real Chaos Monster? So this is actually Genesis 1. This is God's power over the darkness. Remember this?

So like what God doesn't, he doesn't eradicate the darkness. Right, the darkness. He separates it from light. He separates it and like contains it and turns it into a cycle of darkness and then light. And that's an image right there in day one of Genesis of God doesn't eradicate chaos and death and evil and darkness.

He rather makes it serve his grand purpose to bring about true and ultimate light. And there's something happening here, this is a battle of light and dark. Yahweh can make the Teneen destroy the other Teneen. But this is also about who ultimately can defeat the beast. Defeat evil. Defeat the beast. That's right. And who has control over it. That's right.

That's right. So Moses and his brother Aaron, they're associated here. Aaron will be the high priest. Aaron's going to become the high priest. And be the one who goes into the little mini Eden that is the Tabernacle once a year, you know, like a new Adam going back to Eden. But also Moses is a snake grabber, so to speak. And so in this narrative Moses and Aaron serve as a new part of the portrait, another like mosaic tile in the Hebrew Bible's depiction of that snake crusher from Genesis

315. To see it as a woman. Yep, to see it as a woman. And we know that we're not making this up. In other words, you could say, that sounds like an allegorical, a symbolic reading of these Exodus stories. Well, I mean, you could say literally there was a tenene, that's what another tenene. Yeah, you could. But the question is, why are the biblical authors telling us this story?

Right. They don't have to tell us anything. Yeah. They include this story of them doing what God said to do, but the word is different. Here's what really first glued me into this, was that when you turn to the prophets, okay, books of Isaiah and Ezekiel, they look back on the Exodus narrative and they see all these connections between Yahweh's mission to overcome the ultimate snake of Genesis 3. Here, let me just give an example. One is in the book of Ezekiel, chapter 32, this is a simple example. So Ezekiel is delivering these oracles of accusation and judgment against the nations around him. Ezekiel is delivering these oracles of accusation and judgment against

the nations around him. Ezekiel lives, I mean, there's debate between somewhere to 7 to 800 years after Moses. So completely different time and place. However, Egypt still exists and they still call their king Pharaoh. And so in Ezekiel 32, God tells Ezekiel, human, a son of man, actually. Yeah, son of man, human, take up a lamentation over Pharaoh, King of Egypt, and say to him, you compared yourself to a lion among the nations, but here's what you're really like. You're like a Tanin in the seas. This is monster. Yeah, you're the sea monster. So we're reflecting here.

Where does Eeku get this idea? You're the evil boss. Yeah, totally. Which is exactly what Moses. When Moses faces Pharaoh, and it's his staff versus Pharaoh's staff, so to speak. And Pharaoh's staff is a tannine. So it's Yahweh's tannine with. And Pharaoh's staph is a tannine. So it's Yahweh's tannine with Moses and then it's Pharaoh's tannine. And the fact that Pharaoh becomes a physical embodiment of the snake, the Genesis 3, and

the semonster, Ezekiel just assumes it right here. You are, you're like a tannine. Here's another example. In Isaiah chapter 51, there's this poem where Isaiah is longing for God to bring Babylon down and to return the exiles back to Jerusalem. In Isaiah 51 verse 9, the poet starts talking to the arm of Yahweh and says, up wake up put on strength or arm of Yahweh wake up as in the days of old generations long ago so two things remember yeah Moses's arm yes is Yahweh's arm remember this and when he separates the waters that's right Moses stretches out his arm uh-huh over the waters in the narrative uh-huh but in the poem of Exodus 15.

It's Yahweh's arm. Yahweh's arm is what's splitting the seas. So once again, Yahweh and Moses are connected. So when did the arm of the Lord do something mighty long ago? Well, the Exodus story. Yahweh's arm. Wasn't it you who cut Rahav into pieces? Rahav is an Israelite name for the chief God of Egypt. Okay. Rahav. So that's not the word that Egyptians use. They use the word Rah or Ray, the son of the son God, but biblical authors use the word Rahav. The whole point is we're recalling the past Exodus and it says,

wasn't it you, O'Arm of the Lord who cut down the God of Egypt? Wasn't it you who pierced the Tannin? Wasn't it you who dried up the sea, the waters of the great deep who made the depths of the sea into a pathway for the redeemed to cross over? Yeah, it was. In fact, it was. Yeah, it was Moses' arm. Hold on, that's that. Yeah, but it was the arm of the Lord. And so then the poet says, so in the same way, like that past Exodus, so the ransomed, those ransomed by the Lord will in the future return and come with shouting to the Zion. So this poet and Isaiah is reading the Exodus story, actually, as a portrait of future

help. What God will do in the future. And he sees the narrative about Moses and his arm and his staff as really a narrative about God and his staff and his power to overcome the forces of evil. And what are the forces of evil? They're a reptilian chaos monster of the seas. Now is that verse nine, it was you who cut raw to pieces,

or Rayhab to pieces, who pierced the sea monster. Now, Navee says that monster, like it's referring back to raw. Oh, yes, they're the same. Okay, so Egypt thought of raw as a sea monster? So two things, in the narrative of the Exodus, who actually was defeated in the same. Okay, so Egypt thought of Ra as a seamlister? So two things. In the narrative of the Exodus, who actually was defeated in the waters? In the narrative of Exodus, who was defeated in the waters?

In the waters of the sea, the Israelites passed through when they were rescued. Who did God defeat in the waters? Oh, yeah, Egypt. But Pharaoh. But Pharaoh, in Egyptian propaganda, he's the incarnation of the God. So when God defeats Pharaoh, he is defeating a force of spiritual evil. That's how the biblical authors... So Isaiah likens it here too.

Yeah. Atonine. That's right. So in other words, he reads the Exodus narrative as a portrait of the snake crusher. He reads the story of the past as giving us imagery and language to talk about our hope for the future. But that was planted all the way back in Genesis 315, that we're waiting for a human, a son of man, who won't give into the beast and begin acting like a beast, but one who will conquer the beast as its source.

And the author of Isaiah here reads the Exodus story about Moses and his staff in the Tannin and Pharaoh as like this theological mosaic pointing to that future hope. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, the Bible, dude. See monsters. There's more sea monsters in the Bible than meets the eye. Yeah, yeah, totally. I want to make sure I got this all straight up. Okay, yeah, feel free.

It's clear to me, but that doesn't mean it's clear to anybody else. I remember being really surprised at how the theme of Son of Man became so much about beasts. Mm-hmm. It's like this is a theme video about beasts, not theme of Son of Man became so much about beasts. Mmm. It's like this is a theme video about beasts, not about the Son of Man. I see. It's still maybe a little muddy for me in terms of just connecting all the dots. Let me try.

Let me try the son of a... So, humanity's given the authority to rule. And part of that rule is to rule over animals. And ruling over animals, the profits have this vision of peace with the animals. And ruling with the animals is actually this kind of beautiful thing. Protecting them and giving them space to flourish as well. They have their food, we have our food. Yeah. Remember that thing in Justice One? Yeah, they can eat all the grass. We eat the seed bearing. That's right. That's stuff. But then we are introduced to a beast who is a snake, who's not just a beast because there's

something more going on. It's a spiritual beast. So now all of a sudden, the Bible is like merging two ideas. Yeah, that's right. It's like, hey, you're supposed to rule the beast. Here comes a beast that's going to rule over you, but it's not just a beast. It's actually part of this spiritual rebellion. Correct.

And so now, when we're looking at this theme of beasts, it's connected to spiritual rebellion. Correct. It's humans becoming captive to the spiritual powers. So it's not just humans being like, I'm gonna just give an animal urge. It is that, but it's also more than that. It's giving ourselves over to powers and thoughts and systems

that take us not forward into life and image of God working together to rule the world and wisdom. It takes us backwards into competitive, violent rivalry that result in all of us being destroyed. It takes us back into chaos and nothingness. And so when God talks about these kind of two lines, these two liages, that there's going to be the seed of the serpent, the seed of the snake, and there's a seed of the woman. And we're waiting for the seed of the woman who's going to come and destroy this snake. But this idea of the seed of the snake becomes part of that theme too. Humans who give in to the animal slash supernatural evil kind of thing. Cosmic evil. Yeah.

Yeah. Cosmic tired. That's right. It sets you up to think, oh, there's going to be good guys and bad guys. But then you go into the cane and able story and you've got a clean slate. These are both children of the woman But the seed of the woman becomes the seed of the snake in the cane story Right man, and then you get all these stories afterwards of people who when you're introduced to them They're already acting like a snake or some of them are born like a snake like Jacob

Yeah, and then the whole story is about how God has to like Really work this guy over so that he'll finally become a sea of the woman So it's not a static your one or the other yeah people fluctuate between what seeds? They're a part of right which is something you learn later in life like when you're a kid There's good guys and bad guys. Yeah, yeah, and the good guys beat the bad guys and then when you're an adult You realize we're all kind of good guys and bad guys. Yeah, yeah. And the good guys beat the bad guys. And then when you're an adult, you realize we're all kind of good guys and bad guys. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And every day is a decision.

That's right. The famous Alexander Sultzenitsyn quote of the line of Good Neville does not exist out there. Hmm. It runs right down the middle of me. Well. Yeah, that's right. So we trace this theme of humans being compared to beasts to show that.

Now connected to this is another layer, which is the whole first born and second born thing. We can leave that to this side. Yeah, for the moment. For the moment. Man, there's so much. And what are you like to call this Jewish meditation literature? It's like, this is, there's so much, and what are you like, call that a Jewish meditation literature? It's like, this is, there's so many inner woven ideas.

And then you start tracing the idea, and then the idea flips on you, like, okay, there's gonna be a sea of the snake and a sea of the woman, and then all of a sudden, the sea of the woman becomes the sea to the snake, and the sea of the snake is connected to humans needing to rule animals,

which is like a literal thing, but then becomes something bigger. Yeah, I agree. You know, when we make these theme videos in a way where I think I've used this, it's like some people have those big balls of like hundreds of rubber bands, all bound together.

We're trying to take off a couple. Yeah, we're actually, yeah, we're probably doing a little damage distorting a particular fee. To isolate one. When you isolate it and take it out of the rubber band ball. But to begin to understand it, we have to do that and then put it back on the ball again.

Yeah, I think another analogy is it is like some sort of symphony. Yeah, okay, there we go. And it is like some sort of symphony. Yeah, okay, there we go. And it's like, hey, let's take this one. Is isolate the flute. Yeah, let's isolate the flute. Or even like, let's just isolate all the instruments who are doing this one little melody or this one little sub thing.

That's good. That's a better analogy than the rubber band. And then when you do that, you're actually, you're losing a lot. But in order to then understand the things, so then they can listen to that, they can context everything. Yeah, that's right. You know, you can probably do that today in ways you couldn't all the time ago, with in terms of digital. With music?

Yeah, yeah, that you could probably isolate all the different tracks of different instruments in a symphony, and then in some software turn off things, and then just listen to like you're doing one section. That would be a great analogy. Oh, good. I like this. Okay. And then all of this is because we're waiting for a son of the human who can ultimately crush this snake.

That's right. And when we get to Daniel 7, we are told that there's all these beasts, they're crazy mutant beasts, they're not normal beasts. And they are human kingdoms. They're gone awry. Symbol explicitly in his dream that beasts are identified as human kingdoms. And God has to. That's right. That's right. Destroy them. And if you've been reading the Torah, the Exodus story already gave you an image of a whole

kingdom that is likened to the sea monster snake, which is far out. And so the people are being oppressed by this beast. that is likened to the semonster and the snake, which is Pharaoh. And so the people are being oppressed by this beast. That elevates the son of man. He comes up, sits at the right hand of God, rules with him, and it's all connected to this theme of a seat of the woman who can destroy this snake. Now, why does it in Daniel 7,

that the son of man destroy the beast? Because in that vision, it's God himself. It's God destroyed the beast. That's right. Well I think it's that by the time you're to Daniel and in the Hebrew scriptures, you've lost hope in any human who can do it because everybody's failed. So what is going to have to happen is, yeah, a joint God human initiative. Yeah.

That is even more than what Moses did, because that was a God human initiative. Yeah. Moses and Yahweh. The Moses Thresh insist on a throne next to you. No, Moses went up to Onacosmic Mountain. Yeah. But he didn't stay up there.

But he didn't stay up there. And he wasn't worshiped. Yeah, and eventually he displayed that he had a lack of trust in God's power when they were out in the wilderness. This is someone better than Moses. A better than Moses. The Son of Man. And then this character becomes the way Jesus refers to himself.

That's right. This character who is brought into the divine identity by sitting alongside the God of Israel on his throne and worshiped and served by all the nations. This ultimate snake-crusher human, God-human, Son of Man. It's all loaded in the memory of the Dark Knight analogy earlier in this conversation. This Son of Man is just loaded with all these stories about Moses and Pharaoh and the snake staff and Jacob and Esa and Abraham and Ishmael and Ken. Again, that's why we started saying Daniel 7 is a compressed symbolic retelling

of the whole story of the Hebrew Bible. And that's, yeah, the story that Jesus came on to the scene, saying that he was bringing to its fulfillment. So where are we going next? All right, so yeah, the next step, we could do a lot of things. We could hang out in just the prophets. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, you have so much relevant Son of Man, humans of B stuff. But we're going to go back to Daniel now now because I think we have enough to appreciate, now not just Daniel 7, but the way the whole book of Daniel is about the Son of Man. And lo and

behold, Daniel, who is of the line of David, is presented as another one of these portraits of the Son of Man, as the suffering Israelite, who ends up being exalted and even worshipped by the king of Babylon. And he is another one of these son of man like figures that he ends up dreaming about. So did the book of Daniel. It's cool. It's amazing. So we're going to dive deep into that. And we're going to read Daniel 7.

Read Daniel 7 again. Get a little more clarity on some things and then rock it into the gospels in the story of Jesus. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bible Project Podcast. Next week we continue this conversation on the Son of Man. There's a couple more episodes to go. We also have a video done already up and live on our YouTube channel on this theme in the Son of Man.

You can find it on our website, thebibepelproject.com and it's under theme videos you can also find it on our YouTube channel youtube.com slash the Bible project this episode was edited and produced by Dan Gummel the music by the band tense the Bible project is a nonprofit or in Portland Oregon we believe the Bible is one unified story that leads to Jesus. We look at biblical themes, we look at the literary design of the Bible, and we make videos, these podcasts and other free resources. It's all free because of the generous support of thousands of people like you who follow the project and become part of the project.

So thank you for those of you who do that. Thank you for those of you who are just listening along, nerding out with us. This podcast now has 100,000 active weekly listeners, which is incredible that so many of you are joining us on this journey, reading through the Bible, and seeing what God's doing with it in us. We're having a blast.

Thanks for being a part of this with us. This is David Buziri from Raleigh, North Carolina. My favorite part about the Bible project is that I don't have to necessarily read the whole Bible before understanding it and then I can get that general summarization before I get motivated to read. We believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. We are a crowd-funded project by people like me. Find free videos, study notes, and more at thebibletroute.com. you