BibleProject - The Ethic of an Exile

Episode Date: February 26, 2018

This is our fifth episode in our series on Exile. In this episode, Tim and Jon discuss the theme of Exile in the story of Jesus and the New Testament. In part 1(0-10:23), Tim outlines the historical context of Jesus’ life. Israel was occupied by Rome. Rome was an oppressive military ruler who disenfranchised the Jewish people. Many Jews were waiting for a Messiah to come overthrow the Romans and restore the kingdom of Israel. When Jesus began performing miracles and declaring a new kingdom, “the kingdom of God” he quickly made a name for himself. But was he the ruler the Jews were hoping for? In Matthew 22, the Jews want to test Jesus and find out if he wanted to overthrow the Romans and ask him if it's lawful to pay taxes to Rome. Jesus replies with his famous saying “Give to Caesar that which is Caesar’s. Give to God that which is God’s.” Tim says Jesus is the ultimate expression of the “wisdom warrior” that is outlined in the Old Testament books and characters like Daniel and Jeremiah. It seems the way Christians are supposed to interact with their government is one modeled after Jesus and Daniel. Be subversively loyal to your rulers. Work for the peace of your “Babylon” but realize there will be times when your allegiance to the kingdom of God is more important than allegiance to a country or people group. In part 2 (10:23 - 28:21), Tim and Jon discuss 1 Peter 2. Christians are supposed to “submit themselves to worldly institutions… and act like they are free.” Tim and Jon briefly discuss the movie Hacksaw Ridge, a true story where a Christian joins the US Army in WWII as a medic and refuses to carry a gun because it goes against his beliefs. Tim postulates that perhaps the reason “the exile ethic” in the Bible is overlooked is because many Christians in western countries have grown up with a government that has a layer of civic religion. This civic religion is usually based on Judeo-Christian teachings. But this civic religion is not a substitute for following Jesus. Tim says at the end of the day, God has chosen to redeem and form an international people, his new-covenant family, not the various kingdoms and empires that rise throughout history. In part 3 (28:21 - 34:06), Jon asks about how New Testament writers used the Garden of Eden analogy. Tim says there’s no indication the writers believed humanity would return to the “original garden.” Tim cites Romans 4:13 “Abraham will become an inheritor of the world.” Tim says this means the original promised land of Abraham was an image of what God wants to do for the whole world. Tim and Jon discuss the difficulties of thinking in this way. Modern Christians living today are actually exiles in time, not necessarily exiles in location. In part 4 (34:06 - end), Jon and Tim discuss Hebrews 11 and the image of the “new Jerusalem” in Revelation. Tim says the new Jerusalem is supposed to be the anti-Babylon image. It is a picture of humanity’s civilizations working together as was originally intended. Humanity will finally no longer be in exile but will have truly returned home. Thank you to all our supporters! Have a question about the theme of “Exile in the Bible”? Record yourself, keep it less that 20 seconds with your name and where you currently live (in exile :) ) and send it to [e-mail]. We will be collecting the questions for our upcoming Q+R podcast! Show Music: Defender Instrumental: Rosasharn Music Fills The Sky: Josh White I’ve Been Surprised: Josh White Only Your Presence: Pilgrim Show Produced By: Dan Gummel. Jon Collins. Matthew Halbert-Howen.

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it in. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

Hey, this is John at the Bible Project. We're in the last two hours of our conversation on the theme of exile in the Bible. We spent a majority of this conversation so far, showing how the Israelites became exiles when they were forced by the Babylonians to leave their land, they were transplanted, and had to live in Babylon. In Babylon, as exiles, they began to see the story of all humanity as that of exiles, banished from the good world that God designed for us. When the Israelites get to go back home, they find that home is not what it should be

yet, not what God had promised them, and so they continue to keep the identity of an exile, even though they're living in their own land. They've turned the idea of an exile into an existential identity that you can embrace no matter where you live. This is my home, but there are powers that keep it from being truly home. And so we've talked about what it means to live a life as an exile. And we've found that the biblical mandate is surprising.

So we're going to be loyal to Babylon, seek it shalom, pray for it, contribute to its well-being. But there are moments where identity as God's covenant people comes into conflict with loyalty to Babylon. This type of loyal subversion is tricky, and it takes a lot of wisdom. This week, we get to Jesus. Jesus advocates the same kind of loyal subversion

that you find in Jeremiah and Daniel. First of all, dropping any violent aggression and extravagant generosity in love and seeking the well-being of people you like and people you don't like. At the time of Jesus, the Jewish people are not under the occupation of Babylon anymore, rather they're under the oppression and occupation of the Roman Empire. Now the Roman Empire has Caesar who sees himself as God,

and your loyalty living in the Roman Empire has to be to Caesar alone. So think about this, people are talking about this guy, Jesus, like he is the true king, not Caesar. Now, surprisingly, Rome doesn't see Jesus as a threat, because Jesus isn't acting like any king they're familiar with. He has no army, no assassins, no palace, but Jesus did see himself as a king, bringing in a new kind of kingdom, a new kind of home, one with a whole new set of values. And he becomes the Daniel Wisdom Warrior.

And so this is what we're gonna look at today. How do we live in two kingdoms at one time? What is the ethic of an exile? Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Think of what Jesus is doing. As he goes around Galilee, up in his own home region for a couple years, announcing that God's kingdom has arrived here.

You know, there's a guy named Herod as a puppet governor over the region under a guy named Caesar Acoustus, you know puppet governor over the region under again, he's a cesar a custace, you know in Rome So and they use the king language to describe themselves right and Jesus is going around saying there's another kingdom coming Yeah, the divine kingdom is here and Jesus's movement emerges out of that return from exile movement that the Baptist started down by the river Mm-hmm John the Baptist mm the Baptist. So Jesus' movement is a part of John's, let's return from exile back into the land movement. Jesus advocates the same kind of loyal subversion that you find in Jeremiah and Daniel. First of all, dropping any violent aggression towards the Roman occupiers. And extravagant generosity and love and seeking the well-being of people you like and people

you don't like. But then there's that famous story where he goes to Jerusalem acting like a king. And everybody expects him to throw down. And so, remember that story where he's tested and they bring him the coin. Yeah. Right? Who should we pay tax to? Some coin, yeah.

And they say, is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not? So they're trying to trap him. That actually says so in the story. Right. Says Jesus knew their evil intent. Yeah. The way they ask the question sets him up for failure because either he's going to be

a compromiser, give loyalty to Caesar, or he's going to be seen as a rebel. No, don't give loyalty. Don't give loyalty. And so what brilliance, great storage, Jesus says, show me the coin. They brought him a coin. And then his question is, whose image is very intentional, whose image is it, and then whose inscription. So, certainly they didn't see this coming. So whose image? Well it's the image of Caesar, and then his response is dense. It's like a riddle from Proverbs.

So give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, give to God, what belongs to God, brilliant. Nobody knows what to say. It was like, oh, okay. So they're trying to, they're trying to paint him in the categories of either you're going to be fully defined by Rome, Roman identity and given paid attacks, full oil sea, or full subversion sea or full subversion or full subversion and So his way of saying is give to Caesar what is Caesar's? Well, what is Caesar's? What is Caesar's is whatever reflects the image of Caesar? Right, I mean, he uses this word image. Yeah, so give to Caesar what reflects the image of Caesar Was he also saying like the economy, all these coins,

it's all because of Caesar? Yes. So that's his deal. His deal. That's right. So give to Caesar. So if he wants it, give it. That's right.

But then the opposite of that, where the complementary of that is and give to God what is God's. Which then that's the riddle. Because then it's forced you to say, well, what is God's image on? That's right. What is God's image? That's exactly it. What is God's image?

And then, I mean, they're all Jews. They all grew up on the Bible. Yeah. They've read Genesis 1 and 2. So give the image of Caesar back to Caesar, this whole system, and everything that that coin represents, which is propaganda. Right? Coins were the mass media of the ancient world.

And everything those symbols represent. And the inscription that he mentions would have been like Caesar Augustus, son of the divine, this kind of thing. Give the piece of metal and the economic system it represents, but give to God what is God's? Which is what? Your whole being. Your whole being is an image of God.

And so on a scale, which of, which one of those is actually a, the more valuable thing, or the more radical call so give your whole life and Allegiance this is what you see Daniel doing mm-hmm, right? He'll give the Caesar all dressed like a Babylonian. Yeah, sure, Babylonian name Uh, but you ask I'll use your coins. I'll give you the tax you want. That's right. Yeah, but the moment that you think I'm going to define my identity And my ultimate values by the Empire, I can't do that. That's God's because I'm an image of God. And so that's the ethic of a... The wisdom warrior. Jesus is, he's carrying on the wisdom warrior ethic. So good.

And that's exactly the paradox that you see running right up to the trial of Jesus. He's a king. Yeah. He's accused of right. And then pilots like, oh, you're a king. He's like, oh, yeah, you say so. And then pilots like, okay, so where's your assassins? Where's your right? So yeah, where's the real threat here? Exactly. And he's like, well, yeah, there's no, yeah. I'm not like coming with swords up, yeah. Yeah. And then pilots like, well, this guy's innocent. Yeah.

It's the paradox that Daniel presents to Babylon is what the paradox Jesus presents to the Jerusalem authorities, which he, and not very subtle terms, was trying to say that they were the babble on at the moment. When the high priest of Jerusalem tells Jesus, tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God, and when Jesus answers, this is Matthew 26. From this moment on, he quotes from the Book of Daniel, you'll see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the power and coming on the clouds of heaven

So he's quoting an image from the book of Daniel About how God's people are trampled on by Babylon the beast and Yet God will vindicate his people trampled people before the beast Which he calls the Son of Man and Daniel. Yeah, which is from Daniel chapter seven. The point is that he uses an image from the Old Testament of a persecuted person who embodies the people of Israel before Babylon. And he puts himself in the place of Israel

and he's painting the high priest of Jerusalem as the beast of Babylon. Oh, well. So right there, Jesus is saying he's in Jerusalem. He's in the holy city and he's painting this picture where this is exile. This Jerusalem has become Babylon and he becomes the Daniel Wisdom warrior

who will give up his life bearing witness to the kingdom of God. And if that means you wanna kill me, go right ahead. That's fine. And that's what he allows Babylon to do to him. And so once again, when you see Peter talking about Rome and talking to the Christians living in Asia Minor, advocating the same type of ethic, Daniel and Jesus, this way of living.

It seems like it's the way that Christians are supposed to see themselves in relationship to the cultures around them. Yeah. Which is always going to be this give and take. It's the exelect peace ethic. This is really cool set of things that became so compelling to me a number of years ago. It's just not a very common, people don't talk about this. No.

No, and there's- If people don't expect to hear this from the Bible, I think. I don't know, I don't know. Well the Jeremiah verses become very popular. That's true. It is a good place. But in context of this entire, exilic theme. Yeah. Not so much.

There's one little wrinkle in my mind, I'm trying to iron out, which is, am I supposed to be thinking about myself in the promised land, but an exile in time? Or outside the garden. I've always really thought of myself as outside the garden. There was the garden, it's gone. We don't know where it is.

And if we found it, it's guarded by some crazy share of them. They're gonna take me out. So the garden opportunities over. But one day this will be transformed. It will be reformed into the garden. But it's actually a different kind of feeling or paradigm to think of myself as, no, we're actually in the land, we're in the garden.

This is God's earth. It's just not made, it's ruled by, and it's ruled by, yeah, some other forces that I need to both be loyal to and subversive to. And what's it's weird to think about. But not to evil to the systems that are kind of been manipulated by evil. There's a distinction there. Sorry, this is another abatrial.

Because I'm not being loyal to evil, but Babylon, which is become complicit with evil, I'm going to be loyal to Babylon until it's asking me to be loyal to evil itself. I guess it would be the distinction. So loyal up to the point where now I'm becoming complicit with the evil that that empire has become complicit with. Yes, so that's exactly what first Peter advocates. This isn't first Peter, chapter two. He's saying what you're saying here.

So says in chapter two, verse 11, beloved ones, I urge you as exiles and strangers, abstain from fleshly lust that wars against your soul, keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles So that even though they might slander you it's like scoundrels, right? You're not loyal to the Empire and your weirdos and you're But because of your good deeds because you seek the Shalom of our city. Yeah, they still are they all they can do is because you seek the Shalom of our city. Yeah, they still are.

They all they can do is observe that. And he says, then they'll glorify God in the day of your visitation. The day you're vindicated, they'll be like, oh, we were totally wrong about these people. And then he says this, submit yourself for the Lord's sake to every human institution of authority, whether it's a king

or others in authority, governors, sent for the punishment of evil doers or the praise of those who do right. This is... This is the... This is God's will. That by doing right, you can silence the ignorance of foolish people. Act like you are freed people. It's very important. Act like you're freed. Act like you actually aren't a member of the Roman Empire. But don't use your freedom as a covering for evil. Use it as though you were God's slave or God's servant. So the image is actually you are subservient to God. Yeah. Therefore, you'll follow the speed limit and like your payer taxes. Yeah. And you'll find. But even the motive for my submission isn't because I think that my identity is defined by this nation state.

Hmm. What was that movie that just came out that one and Oscar was up for Oscar for the guy who joined the military. He wouldn't carry a gun. Yes. He became a medic and he wouldn't carry a gun. Yes. I feel like you told me about this story in a previous conversation that will be in a

podcast also. Oh, did I? Andrew Garf Field. Hacksaw Ridge. Hacksaw Ridge. That's just such a gnarly name. Yeah. Yeah. Did I? Andrew Garfield, Hacksaw Ridge. Hacksaw Ridge. That's just such a gnarly name. Yeah, that is.

Yeah, so he, that's right. He has this ethic of nonviolence because of his faith, and also because of some violence in his dad was abusive. But anyways, he has this ethic of nonviolence and they definitely show his faith, but he won't carry a gun. And I guess I was just thinking like, okay, I can pay my taxes and I can drive the speed limit,

but what if I get drafted into a war and I gotta go kill people? Yeah. And he's such a cool, like, Daniel story. Yeah, sure, sure. And that way, right? Because he's like, okay, I'll go. And they're like, well, you have to carry a gun.

Well, I wanna be a medic. Well, no, you still have to carry a gun. No, I'm not gonna shoot anyone. They're like, we don't care. Like if you're not armed, you're just a liability. And he's like, look, I'm not going to carry a gun. And it became this big standoff and everyone started to hate him.

Because he's like, are you really for us? Yes. You won't carry a gun? Yes. Yes. Like, spoiler alert, like he, during the battle ends up saving dozens and dozens of lives, risking his own. And then everyone's like, whoa, you are for us. And they're like glorifying God because of his, because of the good works that he did.

So it's such a cool story. It's also a very gory, bloody, war movie. War movie. I mean, it's like, oh, we did talk about this, because it's like the first 10 minutes of saving prime Ryan for about two hours. Oh gosh. It's not really.

Oh, I couldn't take it. Not for two hours, for like 40 minutes. It's like 40 minutes of intense battle. I can't do it. Movies like that just melt me. There's something about it. I guess you kind of acclimate to like limbs flying off people eventually.

I'm just gonna move on. You're not gonna dwell on that image. No, I'm not. No. You just spent 20 minutes talking about the Valley of dry bones that you wanna talk about in a battle scene. That was a dream. That was a weird dream.

Zombie dream. Yeah. So there you go. When you ask what it looks like, that's kind of a provocative example, because there's many followers of Jesus, maybe even who, yeah, totally fought for the country and have killed people. Yeah, totally. There's that.

No, it's very complicated. I'm trying to not try to throw a blanket statement over all of this. I'm just saying a huge theme of the Bible that happens to have been almost totally overlooked in Western Christianity. Is this exile ethic of living in Babylon with a mix of subversion and loyalty. And I just, I have to wonder if why this is invisible to modern Western readers of the Bible is because the form of the nation states that many modern Western people inhabit has a layer of civil religion over it that has been Christianized.

And so we don't see it as Babylon. But there I would just go back to the story of Jesus and be like, Jesus was inter-Russela. Yeah, and he sought for what was. Throwing around language, implying that the high priest has become Nebuchadnezzar. You know, it's very bold on Jesus' part. So Jesus apparently wants his followers to have this eagle eye. So knowing when the

kingdoms of this world have overstepped their boundaries. Yeah, there was a phrase that that one guy Smith Christopher Smith Christopher. Something about doubt being like your yeah okay here it is. The nonviolent piece ethic is a practice of radical doubt towards the self-proclaimed power and religion of the empire. Which is not what I'm used to of people with this radical sense of doubt towards their own. But that doesn't mean you're being,

yes, yeah, unfrench or un-American. Yeah, or constantly trying to undermine your country. That's right. Because that's not the story of Daniel and that's not the story of... Correct. Jesus. And Daniel wasn't trying to undermine Babylon.

Right. Rather, when Babylon over-asserted, its own grandeur, its own story, right? Rather, when Babylon over asserted its own grandeur, its own story, its own authority, that's the point at which. I think what I like about that phrase of the radical doubt is like your default mode should be that if you're feeling comfortable, you should worry about that.

A little bit. Yes, yes. Like that should just set on the alarm bell. Like why am I feeling that comfortable with my own identity as an American or as a Portlander? Like that should trigger something of like, you should start doubting that. But not fighting against, you know,

trying to undermine. Yeah, and it's tricky. I mean, sorry, we were talking about America a lot in this episode, but it's because it's where we live. Yeah, and it's tricky. I mean, I'm sorry, we were talking about America a lot in this episode. But it's because it's where we live. Yeah. And so I've thought about this a lot when I lived out of the country for a year and studied in Jerusalem. I had traveled out of the country just once or twice before that,

but that was my first time, prolonged time. Even though there's lots of internationals in Jerusalem, more often than any other time in my life, I was minority in the grocery store, like white, Scottish, Portland, or whatever. We traveled a lot in the West Bank and Egypt and Jordan. There were many scenarios where we were in the minority, and it was so good for me.

And I became in many conversations, this was in 2006, so it's the Bush era, Priobama. So many conversations, people want, people are talking about America, I want to know what I think. And so I became aware of my own identity, the layer of my identity, it's American. And there were some parts that I could begin to see from other people's points of view. And some of them were really ugly. And then some of them were really incredible. And so I came back with this strange mix of extreme gratitude and also doubt.

And extreme suspicion. There's plenty of extremes on both of those ends. You know, like, so pro, god in country. Totally. And then so, like, soap, pro, God in country. Totally. And then so, whatever, opposite of that. And it seems to me neither of those extremes captures the wisdom warrior ethic. Well, the wisdom warrior recognizes the extremes. And at one point, can be incredibly grateful

for the transportation system in their city and how easy it is to get around. And what makes that possible, the whole infrastructure, and that makes that even a possibility. And praise God for that and feel gratitude for that. And then the next moment, feel anger and suspicion for what your city's doing for the for the least of these are something. Yeah. Like you can you can you can take both. Yeah. So maybe you don't lose these streams. You just know how to deal with them. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. For me, it's complicated by even like our tax system, you know, where I'm like a large amount of the income

that I've earned as a Bible teacher. Yeah. Pays my government to do all kinds of things that I'm, some that I'm really stoked on. Yeah. And some that I'm so, so disturbed. Or so disturbed. And I've given pennies on the dollar, whatever, you know,

and this goes for the law of unintended consequences, for whatever, whether it's adventures of our government representatives at home or abroad, that have gone horribly, horribly wrong, and that I helped finance by teaching the Bible. You know what I mean? Totally. And so I think there's that, Daniel like Daniel's, he's there. Yeah.

He's well-known. Sure, like as he's helping the Babylonian Empire, he's contributing to whatever next city they're gonna take over. Yeah. And the lives that that will destroy. Yeah, think about that. If he was gonna take some really hard line, like that wouldn't be acceptable. Yeah, you know, I've thought about this as a different kind of example, but I remember

when I was teaching through Matthew, we got to that story in Matthew where Judas, the money that he got to betray Jesus, he doesn't want, he throws, he gives it back and they won't take it. They won't take it officially. So what they do is buy a field with it that becomes a burial plot. And then to me that became this fascinating example of how then, for however many generations, people bought plots on that piece of land and were implicitly involved in the betrayal of Jesus. You know, like to me, this, why do Matthew tell us this story? It's almost as if the system that betrayed Jesus actually didn't end. It continued on with people completely unaware and innocent, but who are still in the quagmire

of the system. And that and the story of Daniel Babylon became these stories to me that were so thought provoking of giving me these categories. We're all in Babylon. We're all, and we can't, it's useless to think that we can live completely outside of it. Even if I go off the grid in Montana, I'm still in Montana. Totally. And anytime you pay, well, yeah, you could stop paying taxes even. Yeah. Yeah. But by buying groceries, you're contributing to the system. Yeah. But I'm thinking if you go off the grid in Montana, you're still in one day. You're still on a land that is overseen and borders protected by. Right. Yeah. The thing that you're totally. Totally. So

there's no escaping it. There's no escaping it. And that's why I think the two extremes don't help us. I see, that's what you might extreme. You see the nuance, the Bible. Once again, the extreme positions. I was trying to say the extreme emotion, can be there.

I see. You can have the extreme emotion, and you know what to do with it. You're always taking a nuanced position. Yes. Even if the position is, well then go ahead and kill me. Yeah, whatever. Whatever.

Yeah. I won't cross that line. Yes. It's still a nuanced position in that you're saying, I won't do anything you ask. You're just saying, there's this one line. Yes. Like this thing, I can't go that far.

Yeah. I'm still going to, I'll still take your name and help with your business and your whatever. But, oh, the Babylonian names, that's what your name is. Yeah, yeah, Jim. I'll still take your American name. I'll take that American name. John Smith. John, I have a very American name.

Actually, John's, John's. My name's Jonathan. Yeah, so it's Hebrew. Hebrew, yeah, I can point. The wisdom, warrior, ethic. It doesn't actually give you answers. It gives you a story. Yeah.

Well, at least we'll give you a framework to live within as you encounter new and complex moral issues. It's a more exciting story. It feels kind of like the bit of espionage But a very open-handed way. It's not like a secretive way. It's not like oh, I can't they find out I'm a spy I'm screwed. It's kind of like hey guys. Yeah, I'm a spy. Let's get that out of the way But I'm totally here for you. Yeah, and my loyal this other Kingdom that I'm working for yeah, they're for you too. Yeah, and this other kingdom that I'm working for, therefore you too.

Yeah, that's right. But just so you know, I'm more loyal to them than I am to you. And there's some things I won't do. And there's some things I won't do. It's gonna get weird everyone, so I'll help. Yeah, totally. And then we like, do I like this?

I don't know, do I hate this person. Right, exactly. We're both. Yep, that's exactly it. That's right. I mean, right through into the early Christian centuries, you have women and children being thrown to lions, right? In Roman, Roman gladiator games.

I can't imagine, man. And their crime is we think Jesus is more powerful than Caesar. I mean, that's their crime. Yeah. And so, since like, well, I don't know, the Germanic tribes that are trying to tear down Rome, since that's their line too, we don't give loyalty to Caesar and we kill them. So I guess that's what we have to do to these weird Christians.

And I guess that still happens to religious minorities in certain parts of the world. And it's not so much, my king is better than your king. It's more like my ideology is more powerful than the righty. That's right. So we're going to kill you. Yes, that's right. Yes, I think yeah, religious or political ideologies aren't always married to a actual state structure. Sometimes they are. But sometimes. Yeah. And then sometimes, sometimes in some parts of the world, it can mean Sometimes in some parts of the world it can mean that another parts of the world It just means you're made fun of you lose some freedom. Yeah Okay, I want to get back to this whole, are we in the garden thing?

Okay, alright. Because... That could maybe help us land the plane by getting us to book a revelation. Okay. And so on. Yeah. Yeah. Because I've always had this paradigm of, I'm outside the garden, I'm waiting for the

garden to like, re-garden. But I like this paradigm of, we are in the land. I'm waiting for the garden to like re-garden. But I like this paradigm of we are in the land, I'm not in the Holy Land, I'm not in Jerusalem, I'm not in Israel. But I'm not called to be. And when Peter and Paul were out building churches, they weren't like, okay, now go to Jerusalem. They're like, do it here. But he called them exiles. Is there any evidence of them thinking this is the land, like here and whatever, Asia Minor and... This is somewhat controversial within some circles of mostly Protestant theology.

But where I'm at presently is that the best case you can make from all over the New Testament is actually following a trajectory within the Old Testament already. Namely, that the Garden of Eden is not, we talked about this already, the Garden of Eden, I don't think is leading us to see it as a spot on a map. Yeah. Rather, it's a kind of, it's an image of a kind of world or a way that the world could be and was, an ought to be, of the cosmic mountain. That's why we started this with the cosmic mountain.

That Eden is this image of the ultimate cosmic temple merging heaven and earth, out of which of that temple presence flows the rivers, the water all the earth and so on. Which is why Ezekiel, when he sees the return from exile from Babylon, he sees it as a return to Eden, a new creation of humans, and then his second-to-last vision is of the new Jerusalem standing on a high mountain with a huge city and temple with rivers flowing out of it. What he sees is the Garden of Eden.

For Genesis 2, but this time it's Jerusalem. It's the God of Israel who's remaring heaven and earth, starting right here. So what you see is that all of that image of the Promised Land becomes itself is a way of thinking about the whole world. And so to be exiled from Babylon is to be in the world as it's not intended. To come back from exile in Babylon only to find out a Promised Land is still Babylon-like. And then the early Christians, for them, it's very important that the Jesus movement started out of that place, started out of Jerusalem. That's important in the book of Acts, from Jerusalem goes out. But there's just no indication anywhere in the Apostles writings, in the New Testament of what we're hoping for is to get everybody back to that place on the map,

or of an actual building in that place. For them, the community of Jesus' followers is the new temple, prophesied about by the prophets. And because Abraham was to become a father of many nations, therefore the multi-ethnic people of God is the family of Abraham. And therefore, like Paul says in Romans 4, God's promised Abraham was to inherit the whole world, he says. So even Paul the Apostle, apparently this is in Romans 4, 13, I think. I remember just funny details in the Bible that are weird. Yeah, Romans 4, 13. It wasn't through the Torah that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would become an inheritor of the world. Which isn't what he said. And yeah, you go read Genesis and he was supposed to inherit the land.

The land. But Paul's reading the story of Abraham in light of the whole Old Testament story, which is about the family of Abraham becomes a blessing to the nations. When the kingdom of God reigns through the Messiah over all the nations, opening up the covenant family to all nations, which means that the promised land itself was just an image of what God wants to do for all the world. So it starts with a garden, right?

It's a little spot that becomes an image of the promised land, a bigger spot, on actually on a map. And then through the story of the Old Testament, you find out that itself was just a microcosm image of what God wants to do for all humanity. I think the idea is that the whole world is the place that will become the new creation.

Yeah. And so it's not like we're out of Eden, we're in the place that ought to be Eden, and that we'll once again become a new kind of Eden. So, yeah. And that's what it means to be exiles in time. Yeah. If we're talking about it, I had never thought about the exiles in time,

but that is what the word exile comes or means, an exile in this age. In this age. Yeah, an exile in this age. As we are in the place that ought to be our home, but isn't in the condition. We should just create a new word. Space wanderer. Time wanderers, time exiles. Time immigrants. Yeah, so this is what's complicated.

If the Garden of Eden is not specifically about a place, but about a quality, right? It's not a place on a map as much of its kind of existence, which is complete. It is in cooperation with God. It's with justice and peace rule. God's will and human's will totally. It's a sense where like I'm at home and I'm at home. Yeah, that's right. Versus banishment then is, well I'm at home but I'm no longer at home.

And then exile is, well I'm not home anymore. I've been kicked out of my home and I'm not home. But then you get this exile people who come back home and they say, cool, we're back home, but it doesn't feel like home yet. So we're still exiles. We'll still take that name of exile or that identity, which is now the identity you can then put on Adam and Eve as soon as they're banished, because they are, well, yeah, they're exiles from the garden, but I guess what

I'm trying to imagine is like, am I, I'm at home. I'm not an exile in that like, this is where I'm from, like I'm from this corner of the world. I'm from the Northwest. I consider this home, but I'm not at home. I'm not trying to get back to Chicago or something. Right. Right. We need to be able to write all the sentences with a lowercase H. Yeah, lowercase H.

And an uppercase H. Right. uppercase H. Home would be like the redeemed new creation. Yeah. Of which Eden is in itself an image.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H.H. Abraham. This is his summary of the whole Abraham story in Hebrews 11. He says, by faith, Abraham was called to go to a place he would later receive as in his inheritance. He obeyed and went, even though he didn't know where he was going.

By faith, he made his home in the promised land, but like a stranger in a foreign country. Yeah. He lived in tents like Isaac and Jacob did, who were also heirs of the same promise with him. He was looking forward to the city with foundations whose architect and builder has got. Yeah, that could totally apply. Yes, and the author of Hebrews, he's tracking with all of this imagery in the Old Testament.

We're saying he takes all this exile and exile becomes an image and he now he's seeing the Abraham. I made my home here even though I am still, it feels like I'm a foreigner, even though this is my home. Yeah, and I believe that I'm waiting for a city that's going to be built, not by Yemen's book. This is what the New Jerusalem means in the Bible is, again, it's not heaven. It's a city built by God. It's the world. It's the Jerusalem that ought to have been.

If Eden is the image for the whole world as it ought to be, then the New Jerusalem, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, becomes the world of human civilization. Cities. As it ought to be, a civilization where God's will is humanity's will. And that's why in the last pages of the Bible, it's the ultimate homecoming. And that's why in the last pages of the Bible, it's the ultimate homecoming. It's the new creation is a new garden city, a new Jerusalem Eden. Both images fully merged together. Yeah.

Because now we're mapping the Israel story and the humanity story, Genesis 3 to 11, right up onto each other. Yeah. And it's this place become home. Yeah, because it's home. Because it's this place, become home. Yeah, because it's home. Because it's supposed to be our home. Yeah, it's not like I'm not gonna leave, be transported somewhere else.

It's gonna be here, but it's truly gonna be home. Yeah. And in the meantime, I live in my lowercase home by the values of my uppercase age. And even though that will bring this mix. home by the values of my uppercase age. And even though that will bring this mix. Yeah. So while Daniel is instructive as a story and a character living in Babylon, I'm not living in Babylon in the sense that Daniel did.

Because I'm not living. That's right. But for the readers of this book, Daniel is being offered as a paradigm to all the people who will read the book of Daniel Right most of them will not be located in Babylon sure. Yeah, so I'm I'm being invited to see Babylon Daniel story in Babylon So is the Daniel's story kind of saying wink wink even though you're not in Babylon like you are in Babylon Yeah, if you've read the book of Isaiah, you know the whole world is Babylon. Or Babylon is a way of thinking about the world of human civilization.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bible Project Podcast. Today's show was produced by Dan Gummel. We have one more episode in our conversation on exile. We're gonna land the plane. We're going to land the plane. We're going to talk about Babylon and the book of Revelation. And then after that, we're going to do an exile question and response episode.

So if you have any questions that have arisen from all these conversations about theme of exile, why don't you get ready to send that to us? You can record that audio. Try to keep it to about 20 seconds or less. Tell us your name and where you're from. And send in that audio question to info at jointhebibleproject.com. All right, go for it.

We believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to need. We are a crowdfunded project by people like me. Find free videos, study notes, and more at thebibleproject.com. you