BibleProject - The Tree of Knowing Good & Bad - Wisdom E2

Episode Date: June 17, 2019

In part 1 (0-19:15), Tim and Jon quickly review the last episode. Tim says the entire scriptural canon is to be viewed as “wisdom literature,” but the books that specifically pertain to Solomon, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, and Job are considered to be the classic wisdom books. Then they dive into examining the trees in the garden of Eden. Specifically the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.” Tim notes that the Hebrew word ra doesn’t necessarily imply “evil;” it only means “bad.” Tim shares some other examples of the Hebrew word ra in the Bible. Good/Bad condition or quality: Jeremiah 24:1-2 the Lord showed me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the Lord. One basket had very tov figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very ra’ figs, so ra’ they could not be eaten. Proverbs 25:19 a ra’ tooth and an unsteady foot, is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble. Pleasant/unpleasant, beneficial/harmful: 1 Kings 5:4 But now the Lord my God has given me rest on every side, and there is no enemy or ra’. Judges 16:25 It so happened when they were tov of heart, that they said, “Call for Samson, that he may amuse us.” So they called for Samson from the prison, and he entertained them. And they made him stand between the pillars. Ecclesiastes: 2:16-17 For the wise, like the fool, will not be long remembered; the days have already come when both have been forgotten. Like the fool, the wise too must die! So I hated life, because the work that is done under the sun was ra’ to me. Tim’s point is that to use the English word “evil” loads in too many ideas about moral issues between good and evil. Because of this, a more accurate translation would be “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.” In part 2 (19:15-30:00), Tim notes that Adam and Eve are depicted as being in their moral infancy in the garden. They don’t know what is right and wrong. They need God to teach them how to be wise and how to choose what is right from wrong. Here are some other passages that use the Hebrew phrase “tov and ra’” or “good and bad” to illustrate this moral infancy in the Bible. “Knowing tov and ra’” is a sign of maturity. The phrase appears elsewhere to describe children: Deuteronomy 1:39 “...your little ones... and your sons, who today do not know good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 1 Kings 3:7-9 “Now, O Lord my God, You have made Your servant king in place of my father David, yet I am but a little child; I do not know how to go out or come in. So give Your servant a heart that listens, to judge Your people, to discern between good and evil. For who is able to judge this great people of Yours?” Isaiah 7:15-16 “[Immanuel] will eat curds and honey at the time He knows to refuse evil and choose good. For before the boy will know to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken. The narrative in Genesis 1-2 has shown that God knows what is “pleasant/beneficial,” and he will provide tov (the woman) when something is not tov (man being alone), that is, ra’. So the tree represents a choice: Will they live with God, allowing him to know/define tov and ra’? Presumably they need this knowledge as they mature, but the question is who will teach it to them? Will they learn from watching God’s knowledge at work? Adam and Eve are portrayed as “children.” The tree of knowing tov and ra’ represents two options or modes for how to know and experience tov and ra’: Will they “take” this knowledge for themselves, so that they “become like elohim,” knowing what is tov and ra’? Or instead, will they allow God to teach them wisdom? The gift of God to the man and woman became the means of the downfall. Instead of waiting for God to teach them “knowing good and bad,” they chose to take it for themselves, in their own time and way. Genesis 3:6 When the woman saw that the tree [of knowing good and bad] was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise (Heb. śekel), she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. “Wisdom” = śekel (להשכיל:( “śekel refers to a kind of wisdom. Its core meaning is “insight,” the ability to grasp the meanings or implications of a situation or message. Śekel is consequently discernment or prudence, the ability to understand practical matters and interpersonal relations and make beneficial decisions. It later comes to include intellectual understanding and unusual expertise.” (Michael V. Fox, Proverbs 1–9: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 18A, Anchor Yale Bible [New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008], 36.) In part 3 (30:00-39:45), Tim and Jon discuss the fallout of Adam and Eve’s decision to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. When God holds “trial” with Adam and Eve, their response is to “fear” Yahweh, but in a way that drive them away from him. Genesis 3:8-10 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” He said, “I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.” Then they blame each other: man and woman, united in their rebellion and divided by the fallout. Genesis 3:16 “Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.” This is the opposite of the ideal vision in Genesis 1:26-28 where man and woman rule together. The two are no longer one, but rather two, trying to gain leverage over one another. In part 4 (39:45-end), the guys discuss how God acts mercifully after Adam and Eve eat of the tree. Tim then starts to look forward to the stories of Solomon and how it hyperlinks back to the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Thank you to all our supporters! Show Resources: Michael V. Fox, Proverbs 1–9: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 18A, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 36. Show Music: • Defender Instrumental • The Size of Sin by Beautiful Eulogy • Come Alive by Beautiful Eulogy • The Size of Grace by Beautiful Eulogy Show Produced by: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Powered and distributed by SimpleCast.

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it in, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds, and please transcribe your question when you email it in. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode.

Hey, this is John at the Bible Project. And today on the podcast, we're going to continue a conversation on how to read the Wisdom books in the Bible. Proverbs, ecclesiastes, song of songs, and Job. And like we tend to do, we first are spending a lot of time in Genesis 1 through 3. Genesis 1 through 3 is crucial for grasping why the books of Solomon are what they are. In the Garden are two trees. The Tree of Life which God wants us to eat of, and also the Tree of the Knowledge of Good

and Evil. Which, if we eat of, we will die. Today we're going to talk about that second tree, and ten points out that calling it the Tree of Good and evil is problematic. So the word evil in English is pretty much narrowly connected to moral evil, for essential evil. And the Hebrew word raw is not. Evil loads in too much cosmic moral meaning. If you look at other places in the Hebrew scriptures where that phrase, the knowledge of good

and bad, or in Hebrew the knowledge of tove and raw, you'll notice this phrase. It is a way of talking about a mature adult human with discernment between good and bad. So in other words, Adam and Eve are depicted as being in their moral infancy. So eating of the trees and just about whether we will choose evil, it's about how we're going to learn wisdom so that we can rule the world with God because he's called a child to rule. So the tree represents a choice about two different ways of learning what is tov and wrong.

I can take it for myself because it's good in my eyes. That's what can happen. Or hands off, I will allow God in His own time to give me the knowledge of Tov and Rod. All that and more on today's episode. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. All right, we're going to continue our conversation about the books in the Bible that we're calling the Wisdom literature, which I just learned from you is a modern construct. But there's something about these books as they're related to wisdom and to Solomon, that it's important to understand that the entire Hebrew Scriptures is intended for us to find wisdom. Yeah, and it's actually called wisdom literature within the Hebrew Bible itself. Yeah, and Psalm 119, the whole Hebrew Bible is wisdom literature.

And this is so crucially important because the whole setup to the story of the Bible is Humans trying to decide how they're gonna get this stuff. Yeah, humans on a quest for wisdom. Yeah. Yes Yeah, God as the provider and definer of what is good. Yeah, and then humans are given a Responsibility that also requires them to have wisdom about good and evil. Yeah. The question is, what kind of wisdom and what's the baseline of that wisdom and how will they get it?

Yep. That's the drama. But we need wisdom. We need wisdom. And not just because our lives will be better, but because we have this calling. Yes, that's right. To rule with God.

That's right. And how are you going to do that? Yeah. Humans are given the responsibility to bear God's image and to rule it, steward creation on the creator's behalf. That requires decision-making. Yes. And to make decisions, you need wisdom, how to evaluate and weigh factors on either side of a decision. But the question is, what's your baseline, or a different metaphor, what's your true north on your compass, what defines true wisdom,

and how do you attain that wisdom? I think a lot of people will want a guidebook, a set of rules. That's kind of the cleanest way to know what to do, which is good and bad. And in a way, in the story of the Bible, God does give a bunch of laws, rules to a people. And so it's kind of easy to start thinking like, okay, well, then that's, that's how you get wisdom, is you just find the like divine rule book and adhere to it with your own grit. Yes. And what this narrative is going to put in front of us is that even when humans get very specific rules and directives from God himself. They still prove themselves unable to live by true wisdom. Because it's not just following a rule, the deeper set of issues is my motives

and long-term habits and character formation. You know, you can obey rules out of really bad motives. Well, that'd be amazing if you had like an app where like is any given moment, you could just open it up and it tells you the next right thing to do. That sounds terrible. It is a bit of a dystopia.

That is a little bit what my phone does for me. It just does it for things that I don't care about and I've given it the responsibility to tell me where to go. Yeah, like maps. Like maps. Yeah, you don't think about. And I've given it the responsibility to tell me where to go. Yeah, like maps. Like maps. Yeah, like you don't think about where to turn anymore. You let the computer algorithm decide that for you.

I've made a decision that I'm going to focus on other decisions. And I've given over directional guidance to a computer in my business. This is a tangent, but like as machine learning gets more and more advanced, we will offload more and more decisions. You sure? Yeah. That we don't want to make. That's right.

I think we've talked about this before. We have. But who decides what can be decided by an algorithm? And what should be decided by a human who, you know, we would say has moral capacities. I'm saying if God designed an algorithm, God designed an algorithm. Oh, I understand. Yeah, I got it. Okay, but no, but that's the whole point is that God wants humans to mature and grow into divine like wisdom so that they, so that their will and decisions imitate

ultimate goodness and wisdom. He doesn't want us just checking things off lists. No. No, partners. Partners, yeah. True partners, so that our wills are aligned. And you don't have to be me, and I don't have to be you. We can exist as two others in the world whose wills are aligned.

But yet, I haven't assimilated you into me. We can have a unified will that moves the world forward, but both exist in our uniqueness and otherness. That's the depiction of God's will and designed for the world on page one. And then that's imitated by the human. That the humans are one species, Adam, humanity,

but yet they are also consist of others. The two, and they are one, but also more than one. And then that's explored in the imagery of male and female and in Genesis two. The two who become one. That's all other things, but it's connected with God wants humans to become wise and to rule the world well on his behalf to create more of the garden that he first provided. And that's the image of eating from the tree of life.

Correct. It's not, I kind of imagine it's like you take one bite and you're set. You're like, oh, I got the magic tree of life. Oh, a couple in my belly. Yeah. And now I can live forever. Yeah. Well, to be in the garden, in God's presence,

ruling with Him forever, eating from the tree of life, that's like one packaged image. But that is, it's a fragile condition. It can be compromised, it can be lost, all even just on one choice. It can all go terribly wrong. It's a brutal. And who doesn't know that's life, man.

Yeah. That's life. That the Eden story is very much trying to connect and be in tune with the way that we experience life. Yeah, which makes it so difficult to imagine what new creation really could be like. Yeah, totally. Be sure, sure. Because of the fragility, like you just mentioned,

how easy would it be to screw things up? That's right. And how can creation get to a place when we stop doing that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, but if you have creatures who have become one with their creator so that his life presence inhabits them. The Borg. And that they...

Now the Borg's different. The Borg is everything gets assimilated into the Borg's different. The Borg is everything gets assimilated into the one. It's what we're just talking about. But the biblical vision is no, a universe of others. But that are one through love for one another. Now we're talking the biblical storyline. And love doesn't erase the identity of the other. It allows them to exist in their uniqueness, but it also acts in a way that will sacrificial find a way so that our wills can be unified in mutual honor. Now we're talking. That's wisdom. Wisdom is finding that way. So in the Garden of Eden, this garden, this Eden state

is fragile. That's the whole point of how it starts. Because God gives the humans a choice. He puts them in this garden, loaded with goodness that God's provided by his wisdom. You have the two who are one there. Humans aren't making power plays on each other. They're both ruling like kings and queens. They're naked, they're vulnerable. Everything is known, nothing is hidden, no one is hiding, everything's open and everything is received and loved.

I mean it's Eden, right? Yeah. And at the same time, they're exploring and they're building and creating. Correct. It's easy for my mind to slip into just some sort of like boring utopia. Oh, yeah, yeah, I got it. from my mind to slip into just some sort of like boring utopia. Oh, yeah, yeah, got it. But that's the environment where they care and work,

which is what God told them to do in the garden, to care for it and work. I still imagine there's surprises and disappointments and all these things. It's not like you never experienced something uncomfortable. Yeah. It's just everyone is loving each other and there's wisdom. Yeah.

Okay. So, part of that good setup is in Genesis 2 verse 9. Out of the ground, the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is good to the eyes and good for food. The tree of life was also in the middle of the garden and the Tree of Knowing, Tove and Raw, good and bad. So first, the whole garden is full of goodness. That's Genesis one.

A variety of goodness. A variety of goodness. The Tree of Life is there. That's God's providing. The pinnacle of the goodness. That's right. But then, last thing to be mentioned, it's kind of like the most dramatic thing. Oh, the pinnacle of the good ones. That's right. But then last thing to be mentioned, it's kind of like the most dramatic thing.

Oh, the tree of knowing, good and raw. This is the first time the word is used in the Bible. Okay, I've made a significant development in how I talk about the word raw that I want to talk about with you. Okay. Because I think I found a great English word. Oh. Or at least I think, found a great English word. Oh.

Or at least I think, yes. I think the English word bad. Uh-huh. Actually does better in English what the Hebrew word raw does in Hebrew. Bad, good and bad. But yeah, good and bad, which are also pairs. Yes.

In English. The tree of good and bad. The tree of, yes. Dude, that's exactly right. It sounds really silly right now, but. No, trust me. It will help us in spades. So the word evil in English is pretty much

narrowly connected to moral evil or essential evil. And the Hebrew word raw is not. The word good, let's focus on good. So good in English and mean moral goodness, like inherently good in a way that corresponds to a cosmic principle of goodness. But good is also, we can like ratchet it down a few levels to just mean like pleasant or enjoyable.

It's got a wide range. That was a great, that was a good milkshake. Yeah. Like it's not cosmically right. You know, it's just like, I enjoyed it. It brought me pleasure. It was beneficial. Well, milkshake beneficial.

That was a good smoothie with all my fruits and vegetables for the day. So Tove. Tove is the same. It can refer to moral goodness that corresponds to God's character and wisdom, or it can describe pleasant or beneficial. The same with raw. Raw can be used in a moral sense, the opposite of what we would say evil.

We would say evil. But raw can also mean unpleasant, harmful, or just, so let me show you some examples. And you're saying in that situation, evil just is too much punch. To evil give evil loads in too much cosmic moral meaning. But our English word bad can refer to both. He's a bad person.

That was a bad decision. I mean morally bad. But also, that was a bad burrito. That was a bad burrito. Good and bad. It's perfect. Yeah, so I'm on the like, let's start in movement. Oh, yes.

The tree of knowing good and bad. It's, it's, it's works perfect. We've got, we've got a lot of history to undo then. We've been calling it the tree in good need a lot. Well, we can start with this video. All right. All right. So let me just show you some examples and you'll see what I mean.

Of this, of the word, and Raw, and how they work. Okay. In Jeremiah 24, he has a dream. The prophet Jeremiah has a dream. He says, the Lord showed me two baskets of figs. One basket had very Tove figs. The other basket had raw figs. They were so raw that they could not be eaten.

They were morally bad figs. Yeah. They were so raw that they could not be eaten. They were morally bad Figs. Yeah. Such as evil Figs. Yeah, right. It doesn't, of course, not evil Figs. But they're bad. Yeah. They're rotten.

They taste bad. Whatever. They're bad. Right. Toe than raw. Toe than raw. Good and bad. Yep.

There's a proverb about having a raw tooth. A tooth that is raw. Mean it. A raw tooth would be raw. Yeah. I mean, you can't bite with it. It's broken. It's cracked. It's raw. So a cracked tooth can be called raw in probably just 25, 19. Solomon, when he becomes king in a time of peace he says God has given me rest on every side There is no enemy and there is no ra. So it doesn't mean there's no evil. No, it doesn't mean that. There's no enemy

There's no ra. There's nothing bad. There's no catastrophes. There's no famines. There's no bad guys out to get me. So, ra means harmful situations. Not beneficial. Not beneficial. However, ra can be used to refer to moral evil. In Psalm 140, the poet says, Rescuing me, O Lord, from ra people. Preserve me from the violent man who devises raw in his heart. So that's evil.

Yeah. So if a moral agent is raw, then it becomes a moral issue. Yeah, that's right. Moral issue. Oh, that's good. Maybe that's, oh, that might be helpful way. Because a fig is not a moral agent. That the person is raw.

It's evil. The evil. If a fig is raw, it's just bad. Yeah, it's come bad. The person be bad and not evil. Hmm, hard. If you like, if your body was broken in somebody, you would be bad.

A raw person can do raw. And the doing of raw will refer to just a harmful, a harmful act. Yeah, a bad act. An act that brings harm. When we're there, I'm more comfortable using the word, refer to just a harmful act. A bad act. An act that brings harm. When we're there, I'm more comfortable using the word evil. Okay, then did check this out.

God does raw. God says here, Jeremiah 18, at one moment I might speak concerning a nation or a kingdom to uproot it, to pull it down, to destroy it. If that nation against which I have spoken, if they turn from their raw, from their bad, their evil, but their evil, their evil, if they turn from their moral evil, I will relent concerning the raw that I plan to bring upon it. So it's God's raw evil. So what is the raw to pull it down,

to destroy it and uproot it? Catastrophe. A kingdom falling. Which we would say is a bad thing. It's bad for the people who are... It's unbeneficial. It's not... It's harmful. It's a catastrophe.

Yeah. So unpleasant, harmful... Destructive. Destructive. But not all destructive things are evil. It is morally evil. Yeah. At least from the perspective of the biblical authors,

from the perspective of Jeremiah, God spoke to do raw to Jerusalem. Yeah. Well, by allowing Babylon to come to Israel. We understand that. It's not always evil to destroy something. Yeah, that's right. But people, it's not a normal house of... It's not a whole lot of a house. You're a two.

To do something that someone might experience as... Raw. Might from another person's perspective be the exact right thing to do. Yeah, right. The good thing to do. Sure. And so these are the passages where God does raw.

Yeah. When Saul, King Saul, disqualifies himself to be the king of Israel. The narrator says God sent a raw spirit to torment Saul. Yeah. And that's often, that's usually translated evil spirit. Yeah, it should be a harmful, I mean basically he starts to go mad. He starts to go mad from his power complex.

And he's so jealous to guard his own seat of power from any rivals. He starts to go mad. Going mad from a power complex is a bad spirit. Is a raw spirit. Yeah, that's right. And so it usually gets translated, God sent an evil spirit. And how many times someone's read that and then come to me in crisis like what God does eat Sounds evil spirits because they're imagining like a demon at that point, but it is a

Portrait of God that we have to reckon with in the Bible that he will allow or do raw bring about what is Destructive for people who do raw for people who do do evil. For people for evil people, God will deal with them by doing raw. By bringing them down. The knowledge of good and bad. Yeah, is not just, they only do good, because there might be situations

where you need to do something that that is tear something down, or is to some people feels bad. Okay, so that's the first step. First step is what Toven Ra are. Good and bad. Second step, the phrase knowing Toven Ra. Yeah, knowing it. This phrase appears four times in the Hebrew Bible.

One of them is the tree. Here's the other three. Deuteronomy chapter one, Moses says, your children, your little ones, your sons, who today do not know tove and raw, are going to go into the land. So it's knowing tove and raw is a way of talking about a mature adult human with discernment between

good and bad. First Kings 3 Solomon says, I am but a little child. I don't know how to rule these people or how to discern between tovon ra. So that's why he prays, yes, God for wisdom. And then in Isaiah 7, the child will eat curds and honey at the time, around the time that he knows to refuse raw and choose tove for the boy will know to refuse raw and choose tove at a certain age. So in all three cases, it describes children who are yet to mature, unto a knowledge of Toe and Ra.

Solomon was a child. Okay, that's right. In two, it's actual children. In one, it's an adult who's confessing that he's a... He's like a kid. ...like a child. So what does it mean that to have the first humans, right? The humans in the garden.

The baby human. And they've just been given great responsibility to rule. They're in their infancy. Yes, they're depicted as children who are yet to mature. And so here's the- So funny, I always picture Adam and Eve like in their like 30s or 40s. But also I had this picture of them like 14 or something.

That's funny. Right, like it's like whoa. Well, I don't think this is about their age. Totally. Okay, all right, yeah. I'm just saying like, That is the assumptions built in the depictions of Adam and Eve.

It's true. I mean, most of Western art history, they're white Europeans. Yeah. Right? So in other words, Adam and Eve are depicted as being in their moral infancy.

Mm. And of course, if they're gonna rule the world, they're gonna have to have wisdom. So what the tree represents is not whether or not they're going to gain a knowledge of Tove and Ra. They have to have that. They must have it. And we've talked about that,

but we've talked about it in terms of just an assumption. Yeah. Like if they're gonna rule, but you're actually bringing even more of a case saying, look at how this phrase is used. This phrase is used about growing into a moral aptitude. Correct. That's right. Because remember, you can be wise,

but in your own eyes, every human that's perceptive and using their brain has wisdom. Can become wise. Question is, how will you become wise and what's your baseline for defining what is the wise and the good. So the tree represents a choice about two different ways of learning what is tov and raw. I can take it for myself because it's good in my eyes. That's what's gonna happen or staying from it or Hands off I will allow God in his own time to

Give me the the knowledge of Tov and Ra now that I'm gonna allow God to do it. Mm-hmm. That's not explicitly Nope talked about no, but it's implied The knowing of good and raw describes children who will mature. Yeah, there's a choice in front of them and then he says don't take it for yourself. The assumption is that God's gonna make them wise. They have to forget they're gonna, he just said they're gonna rule the world. Okay, so from that from their calling as co- co-rulers, I infer. We infer that God is going to give them wisdom. Yep, because they're being described as children. God, he's called a child to rule.

It's then he's called children to rule the world. Yeah, right, aren't we all? Yeah. And then when we get to the tree, we're supposed to see that as an alternative. That's right. To this implied assumption, which is just hang out with God and he will give you wisdom.

And he'll give you wisdom. Yeah, what are they doing on there when the wind of God comes, and excuse me, when the voice of the Lord comes to walk in the garden at the windy time of the day. Yeah. What are they? What are they doing? What are they doing?

That's what it's about. Yeah. Right? The moment they take from the tree, it's as if God shows up for the daily walk and this time they're hiding. Yeah. Instead of being vulnerable and open to him. Hmm. I think we are meant to infer that the tree represents a choice about how wisdom will be

attained by these children. Will they take it for themselves based on what is good in their own eyes, or will they receive it as a gift from God? We've had the conversation before about the location of this tree because the tree of life is said to be in the center of the garden. And also the tree of knowing it. And also the tree of knowing the trees. And also so they're together. Yeah.

Okay. That's clear in Hebrew. Yep. And it saves the tree of knowing good and evil because that's the punch line. Yeah, saves it at the end. Yeah. That's right. You have all these good trees.

The tree of life was in the middle of the garden and also the tree of knowing tove and rock. Good and bad. And we've talked about this before, which is like, it's this ever present choice. That's there, even when you're in the midst of the garden, eating of the tree of life, look over your shoulder, and there's the choice.

Yes, yep, that's right. That's right, yep. So as the story goes on, then you have the story about tragically, the one who is provided as the Azer, the Hebrew word for help. Again, it means like the indispensable salvation. Yeah. It's the one who's provided.

The essential other. Yeah, to save as the rescuer and helper of the man ends up being the first one of the two. They both end up being deceived and eating, but she's the one targeted and she's the one. And again, this will all get, it's all relevant for the wisdom literature. How men and women relate in the wisdom,

it's big theme in the wisdom books and the song of songs. And it's all keyed off of Adam and Eve in the garden. So, Genesis 3, verse 6, when the woman saw that phrase, when somebody sees that, God did that seven times on Genesis 1, God saw that it was good. Now it's the first time a human is seeing that. It's a human evaluating. And what she sees is that the tree of knowing good and bad was good. God saw that it was good and you get eaten. The woman saw that something's good. Now she's evaluating. Yeah. She saw that it was good and it was beautiful to the eyes. It was beautiful in her eyes.

The tree was desirable. That's a jamad. It's the word for covet. It was covetous. I want that. It was desirable to make one wise. I could have wisdom. I could take this wisdom for myself. It's beautiful.

I want it. God said, don't eat, try and eat. It will kill you. But it's beautiful. I want it. God said, don't eat, Tramit. It will kill you. Yeah. But it's beautiful. So when she says it's good, it was beautiful. She see, correct. Yeah. She sees that it's good. Oh, this looks beneficial to me. Yeah. This looks like a good thing. And not only that, she's exercising your own wisdom. That's right. Even before she eats of the tree that allows it to exercise her own wisdom. Yeah, the moment that she sees that it's good, she's exercising her own knowledge of good and bad. But there's a difference between having the insight

of your own wisdom and enacting on it. I see. Right, because like she could be like, oh man, in my own eyes, that seems good. Yeah, well, and then she could be like, oh man, in my own eyes, that seems good. Yeah. Well, and then she could go, but God said. Correct. And I can fear God.

That's right. Exactly. That's right. So what she sees that it's good. But then the next phrase, it was beautiful in her eyes and she desired it. Yeah. So it's not just, oh, I evaluate that as good. Yeah.

It's the next step of motive and impulse, and I want it. And I want it. And even there, that's not necessarily wrong. No, it's not wrong. But I want the thing that God told me is going to kill me. And then you're at the crux of the choice. Your crux of the choice. What am I going to do?

Because to live by the fear of the Lord would be to say, that looks good. And I want it. But I trust God's wisdom that says, this is going to kill me. So I will not take it. And she does the opposite. She sees it. This looks beneficial to me.

I want it because having this will be the beginning of me exercising my own moral judgment. This is my path to becoming wise. It's desirable to make one wise. And she took. I mean, if you slow down. Well, I guess maybe when I was trying to parse that out, the knowledge of good and evil isn't the ability to discern between good and evil on your own terms because she was able to do that without Pertaking it right but taking of it is actually it's the decision that that's gonna be the way I live

It's more than just knowing good from evil. Yes, and this is where yeah our English word no is more mental Yeah, mentally oriented Whereas the Hebrew word no is experientially oriented. In Genesis 4 Adam knew his wife Eve and she became pregnant. So it's about experiencing. So, So you're gonna say there's all these bits to it. Well, it's just the sequence she saw that it's good. She's evaluating. You can evaluate things as good and bad and not do anything about them.

But she can't help but do that. That's right. Yeah, you're evaluating things all the time. So that's not bad enough so, but she saw that it's good. Second step and it's beautiful. Yeah. It's attractive.

It's not only beneficial, it's attractive. Which is another thing that you have very little control over. Yeah, what you see as attractive. What you find attractive. Yeah, third step. Those are the first two steps. Third step. I want it.

I want it to be mine. Yeah. Because that will give me, in this case wisdom. So desire. Desire. Now evaluation. You said that's the word for covet. Hmm, covet is a very morally charged word.

It is. Or desire to me is a morally big use. A little dial down. Yeah. The one thing you could use the word Cove, you're making an evaluation on the desire. The only that is wrong. Yeah.

But it's the word, come on. It's the same word used in one of the 10 commandments. Yeah. Don't cover your neighbor's house or property or. Don't have that desire or more, is it more, is it don't act on the desire? Well, the tree is desirable. Yeah.

I want the tree. Isn't it natural when you see something that's desirable? Oh, God. Or beautiful. Yeah, that's right. To just automatically, but I want that. Sure. That's just a, isn't that,

it is natural. It is natural. That's right. Or is that something that we actually can untrain or like, not have? Well, I think the idea is to ret It is natural. That's right. Or is that something that we actually can untrain or like unnot have? Well, I think the idea is to retrain. Yeah. So, ideally, she would look at the tree, see that it's good,

notice that it's beautiful, and then desire it. And then say, I don't want it. And then say, but God said it will kill me. So I trust that even though I desire it, it actually is not the thing that I should desire. Okay. Because it will kill me. So I trust that even though I desire it, it's, it actually is not the thing that I should desire. Okay. Because it will kill me. Okay.

So yeah, each one of the steps is morally neutral. But in the 10 commandments, coveting is not morally neutral. Don't do it. Oh, I understand. Oh, that's interesting. Well, I suppose, yeah, it doesn't say don't take your neighbor's house and don't,

it says don't desire them. Yeah. Ah, I guess the assumption being, if you give in, if you foster that desire, you'll eventually take it. doesn't say don't take your neighbor's house and don't get says don't desire them. Ah, I guess the assumption being, if you give in, if you foster that desire, you'll eventually take it. It seems like there's a difference between this, this is an interesting. Automatic desiring and the perpetuating

of that desiring in your own heart. Yeah, you know of like, that's right. Of like noticing, I want that. And then relishing that. And then like deciding like, I'm like, cultivating it, cultivating the fantasy and then relishing that. And then like deciding like I'm a... Cultivating and feeding the fantasy and so on. Yeah, that's right.

To me that seems like coveting is when you're like cultivating it where desires just like, they're just sparked within me something. I see. You're right, in English, that word just separated that way. In Hebrew it's one word. It's one word, yeah. That has that range of meaning.

Okay, so in the Ten Commandments it's talking specifically about the cultivate. It's not word, yeah. That has that range of meaning. Okay, so in the Ten Commandments, it's talking specifically about the cultivate. It's not trying to say like, don't have desires for things that aren't yours. No, yep, that's right. There's an analog to this, and Jesus points this out in the sermon on the Mount, where he says, you know, you've heard that it said, don't commit adultery.

Cool, it's one of the Ten Commandments, and then he says, but I say to you, anyone who looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery in his heart. He discerns between noticing someone that's desirable and then actually feeding the desire and allowing it to grow. Yep.

Okay, so the whole point is that the first failed human action is described as a misguided quest for wisdom and for knowledge of the good and the bad. And so that sets the tone for the whole story then because this misappropriated wisdom is actually going to lead to exile and death. And the first thing of the narrative, the woman, then she takes, she gives to her husband, he eats, then the first thing to do, their eyes were opened, the eyes were opened and they realized that they're all room. The word play, because all room could mean like shrewd or clever. But it's also the word for naked. Oh, is it? Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, weird. So the serpent

was a room and it ended up with the humans realizing they are a room. What a different kind of room. Yeah, different kind of a room. So their eyes are open, all right. And the first thing they do then is provide covering for them for their naked bodies. So the first thing they do is hide their bodies from each other. So this knowledge ends up, fff, dividing them. The two were one, they were naked, no shame. The moment that I take it upon myself to be the one who, by my wisdom, to know good and bad, it's just all of a sudden there's division between us. Because your knowledge of good and bad might be a little different than mine. Yeah. So I don't want you. I don't want you. Can I trust you? Yeah. Am I safe

with you? Hmm. It's fascinating. This is the first narrative consequence is division between human. Then they hide from God. They hide from each other. They hide from God. God says, where are you? The man says, well, you know, I heard you in the garden and I was afraid. I had fear. I had fear of you. So the first time the word fear appears. But it's fear that did not keep it. It's not a good fear. Yes, it didn't keep them from making the decision.

The fear that they have is now fear of God because I... It's judgment. I just did the wrong. I think the exact thing, he asked me not to do. It's the sad fear of the Lord. The fear of the Lord that doesn't lead to life, it's the fear of the Lord that results from disobedience. Who told you that you're naked?

He says, I hid because I was naked. Who told you that you're naked? How did you have that category? Yeah, wait, have you eaten from the tree that I commanded? You're saying, don't eat from it. Then the man says, the woman, the woman. So, let's take, now you have two roles for Eve. Now, version A of Eve was salvation for the man.

Goodness, life, multiplication, right? But now you have this Eve, the Eve who did what was wise in her own eyes, and this Eve cost a problem. And so what he does is he blames her. He says, the woman that you gave to me, she gave to me from the tree, and then he speaks to the woman, what is this you've done? The snake, the snake she blames, he deceived me. So the whole thing falls apart. Yeah, and it's a division between man and woman. There's an ideal Eve the wise Eve. Mm-hmm could have led to life. Mm-hmm. And now you have the foolish Eve. Eve that tempted to death. Yeah, that leads to death These are fundamental images for the book of Proverbs. Yeah And so you walk out of the garden. You're like, oh lady lady was them a lady following. Totally, yeah, yeah, it's Eve.

So, and then it all exiled death, the whole thing falls out of this. And the rest of the book of Genesis is people doing what is wise in their own eyes and hurting each other. It's generation after generation. So you walk away from the Eden narratives saying, man, if humans are ever gonna be restored

to the Eden ideal, it will be like humanity being reunited with the ideal Eve that God provided back in the garden. Now, this is where the woman becomes not a woman, but more of a... Yeah, she becomes a personification of God's wisdom. She becomes a person. Well, in the book of Proverbs. Yeah. So we'll get there when we talk about Proverbs.

But the point is I walk away from the Eden story going, man, if we're ever going to recover that, we're going to need humans who can submit to God's wisdom, not take and define wisdom by their desires, but define it by God's wisdom and command. Gonna result in man and woman, not power leveraging over each other, leveraging over each other. One ruling.

Yeah, when God says to the woman, your desire, oh this is important for song of songs, your desire will be for your husband. This is in the curses in Genesis 3. In the curses of Genesis 3, your desire will be for your husband, but he will rule over you. It's the opposite of Genesis 1, which is male and female together ruling. Now you have male ruling over female. It's the opposite of Genesis 1. And there's that word desire again. And that word desire, it's a different word for desire.

It's an extremely rare word that is going to appear again one time in the song of songs. rare word that is gonna appear again one time in the song of songs. It's crucially. It's a desire, it's true. It has been that verse has led to a lot of conversation. Yes it has. The rabbit hole is quite deep. On that one. But the point is in the narrative, man and woman rule together on page one.

Yeah. Now on page three. The man will rule the world. Once they hide from each other, once they can't trust each other Then the man will rule over the woman and that's portrayed as the opposite of God's intention. Yeah, it's a curse It's yes. Yeah, it's a sad consequence of the division between Adam and Eve Now and why did that division happen because they did what was wise and they were nice. So there you go. That's the first step of understanding how the wisdom literature functions in the Old

Testament. The wisdom literature is going to take that story and make it a paradigm for every human being. And thinking through on a daily basis, in the grit of it all, how do we live in God's wisdom and eat of the tree of life versus eating of the tree of knowing good and bad. Yeah, what I do is I live in the fear of the Lord, the kind of fear of the Lord the Adam had after when God showed up.

That's not the kind of fear I want. Well, you want that fear, but before you make the choice. Exactly, I want that fear, but before that will prevent me from doing was wise in my own eyes. That's right, yeah, totally. And that phrase is very loaded. It's a hard phrase. Yeah, but think, the fear that Adam has

when God shows up, it's a fear, he expects judgment. Right? Because God said, the day you eat of it, you'll die. God shows up in a storm wind immediately after. And he's afraid. He's afraid God's going to kill him. What does God not do? He doesn't kill them.

He exiles them, but he doesn't kill them. Grace. Yes. He not only does he not kill them, he provides for them. It gives them skin. Yeah, it gives them the clothes. So that's meant to catch your attention. God said, the day you eat of it, you'll die. God shows up after the eat of it, and they don't die. Instead, he gives them a gift. So it seems like a God, you really, in some ways, you should fear, but in other ways, he's way more merciful than you expected him to be. Which doesn't mean not to fear him, but it does mean you don't have to be afraid of him. Yeah, and think, what if I were to have that kind of fear before taking from the tree?

That's a different kind of fear, because it's not the fear of like, well, if I do it, he'll kill me. You. It's more of the fear, and this is where, our English translations, I think, help us with words like, well, I don't know. I mean, respect doesn't quite get you there. All reverence.

Reverence is maybe better. Reverence. Yeah, what? Reverence has a bit of a tinge of fear in it, right? Yeah, actually here. Let's imagine ourselves to be Adam and Eve standing in front of the tree. About to take it. And then I decide not to take it out of for fear of the Lord. So the question is, what am I fearing? God said that I'll die. Fearing the consequences. Yep, fearing the consequences. But also, I'm fearing the one who provided all of this goodness for me.

Yeah, you're fearing the loss of that relationship. That's right. Yeah. I have reverence for that one, because he is the wise, all-powerful provider of what is good. Mm-hmm. So I don't just fear him, I also fear the consequences of doing something he said not to do. Yeah. Because I fear the consequences.

It's an interesting insight where you mention how God acts so mercifully. Mm-hmm. It's, we don't fear God because he's bad. We fear God because he's good. Yes. I think is what kind of what you were saying. Well, it's the surprise in the story. He says, the day you eat of it, you'll die. Yeah, but everything that Adam knows up to that point is God is good

That's right, right? Yeah, that's all he knows. Yeah, yeah, and so why would he fear God in that moment? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If there's no nothing except for the potential consequence. Yeah, that's really forward I guess you could fear the consequence. Well, yeah, guys did say the day you eat of it, you'll die. Yeah, so I guess he's fearing that we're at the tree. Here you come. I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die. He's a friend. But looking back, everything God's done is good.

Correct. And there is a sense of, I don't want to lose that. I want to be in a relationship with the ones who provides good. And there's a reverence for that. And then there's a surprised twist, which is God's even better than he thought. Yeah, that's right. He doesn't kill you.

He doesn't kill them. He gives them a gift, but then he exiles them to the realm of death, where they will eventually die. But he's more merciful than he sounded. Long-suffering. He's more merciful than he sounded when he gave the command. Yeah. Which is, he'll die the day you read of it.

So, yeah man, here you go. The Genesis 1 through 3 is crucial for grasping why the books of Solomon are what they are. But to take on board, why these three of the wisdom books, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Songs, no matter if I'm just making songs, songs into a wisdom book now. Yeah. But you'll see, it is one. It is one. Why Solomon is attached to us. The next step is to just quick overview of the Solomon story. Because it's designed as an elaborate reenactment of the Garden of Eden story, his story is. There's a little sentence at the

beginning of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Songzongs that connects it to Solomon in some way. When it's hyperlinking to Solomon, but the Solomon stories are massive, hyperlinking back to the Garden. That's what those little opening sentences are doing, of Proverbs. It's tying that all together. It's tying to the story of Solomon back to the Garden, wrapping it all up. These books are all exploring. Yep, what does it mean for humans to gain wisdom? To live by God's wisdom. How do you live by God's wisdom? What are the implications of it? So here it is, Proverbs. How to live by God's wisdom. And when you do, you will find yourself reunited with the ideal Eve. Lighty wisdom.

In a way that leads to eternal life. It's proverbs. Ecclesiastes comes along and says that maybe true on a theoretical level, but once we live outside the garden under the sun in the land of exile, you're going to just have to settle for hoping for the best.

Because even if you embrace Lady Wisdom, you're not exempt from the horrific conditions that we all have to live under here outside the garden. And then the Song of Songs is a poetic reenactment of the drama of being reunited with the ideal Eve and lady wisdom and the final scene of the song of songs is the lever and the beloved being united under a tree In eternal love that overcomes death. That's the final paragraph of the song songs So good did so that's where we go Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bible Project Podcast. Next week we're going to continue this conversation on how to read the Wisdom books. We won't get into the Wisdom books yet, but we'll get to Solomon. The man who is connected to all the Wisdom books.

We'll look at his story and how he is replaying the Garden story and how he gets so close to fulfilling the test of choosing God's wisdom over his own. He's a very complex character. One simple way to say is he's presented with two sides so I can juggle and hide. Welcome to the story of Solomon. Today's show is produced by Dan Gummel,

the music by the band Tense. The Bible Project is a nonprofit where in Portland, Oregon, we believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. We have videos, this podcast, and other resources you can find it all at thebibletproject.com. And it's all for free because of the generous support of people like you. So thanks so much for being a part of this with us. Hi, this is Rufaro Banga and I'm from Zimbabwe. Moroie Mossein Dino Nzi Rufaro Bangga, Dino Fakuzin Bapwe.

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