BibleProject - What Does Leviticus Teach Us About Jesus? – Leviticus Q+R

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

How do you clean a tabernacle? What does “laying of hands” represent? Is the scapegoat a hyperlink to Cain and Abel? How was it even possible for Israelites to follow the law? In this episode, Tim and Jon respond to your questions about the Leviticus scroll. Thanks to our audience for your insightful questions!View full show notes from this episode →Timestamps How Do You Clean a Tabernacle? (1:02)What Does “Laying of Hands” Represent? (9:06)Is the Scapegoat a Hyperlink to Cain and Abel? (14:26)What’s the Connection Between Abraham’s Two Sons and the Two Goats? (21:10)How Was It Possible To Follow the Law? (31:30)How Does Leviticus Change Our Understanding of Communion? (39:00)Do We Need the New Testament to “Get” Leviticus? (46:36)Referenced ResourcesInterested in more? Check out Tim’s library here.You can experience the literary themes and movements we’re tracing on the podcast in the BibleProject app, available for Android and iOS.Show Music “Defender (Instrumental)” by TENTSShow produced by Cooper Peltz with Associate Producer Lindsey Ponder. Edited by Dan Gummel, Tyler Bailey, and Frank Garza. Podcast annotations for the BibleProject app by Hannah Woo. Audience questions compiled by Christopher Maier.Powered and distributed by Simplecast.

Hey, this is Cooper at Bible Project. I produce the podcast in Classroom. We've been exploring a theme called the City, and it's a pretty big theme. So we decided to do two separate Q and R episodes about it. We're currently taking questions for the second Q and R and we'd love to hear from you. Just record your question by July 21st

and send it to us at infoatbiboproject.com. Let us know your name and where you're from, try to keep your question to about 20 seconds and please transcribe your question when you email it. That's a huge help to our team. We're excited to hear from you. Here's the episode. All right. Hey Tim. Hey John. We get to listen to some questions from people who've been following along in the the Torah movement. My movement series we did. Yep. Specifically around the

Leviticus scroll. Yeah. So let's just get right into it and hear what people were processing. Yeah. I'd love to hear you respond. Yep. So many great questions as always more than we can answer. So we just try and pick out the most repeated ones that rise to the top. And that's what we've done. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I always love interacting with people's questions. People who listen to podcasts are so smart. It is a theme.

Really perceptive questions. So anyway, let's shall we dive in? Let's do it. Sweet. Let's start with a question from Marie in Virginia. Hi, Tim. Hi, John. My name is Marie and I am from beautiful Buckingham, Virginia. I've really enjoyed the series on the Vitigus, but my question is of a more practical nature. How, who, or was the tabernacle ever cleaned after all of that blood sacrifice, as well as food sacrifice? Thanks for everything. Bye. That's a very practical question.

So practical. So practical. As so many people ask the version of that question. Oh, really? Yes. Because it's going to get messy. So messy. Well, so here, and this is,

I think it came out in our conversations, but it highlights this funny irony for us listening, I don't know, as modern separated, because the language of all of this in Leviticus is about purity. Yeah. But the way you purify things is to smother them with... Yeah, wiping blood and pouring blood and... Blowing blood. Yeah.

And sometimes it was water or purification rituals for like a person. Right. You take a bath. Yeah, but for the altar. The altar. It's just a lot of blood. It's just a lot of blood. And for like the things in the tent.

You're sprinkling blood on it. Yeah, totally on the curtains on the nasty. You totally. So it's a very practical question. Because for us it seems like you're making it dirty. Even though symbolically, it's being purified. What does happen? Does blood... does it mold? What happens if you just leave blood out?

Alright, yeah. You know, I think we've all had experience. You're going to cut... Well, I mean, it'll scab, and it'll dry. The blood will dry. Then you just clean it off. Well, say you cut yourself and as you're walking to the bathroom to put on the bandaid, it drips. Yeah, it drips on like my alarm clock. What'll it do there? It dries. And it dries there. It kind of flakes. I mean, the fabric might stain it, but if it's a hard surface, doesn't it just kind

of dry and you could just flake it off? I mean, why are we ahead of hypothesizing when I'm sure there's a YouTube video? I mean, all my experiences, like with my kids, who cut themselves all the time on sticks and branches and stuff like that. So there's been blood around my house that will be on the corner of the bathroom and it'll dry and be there for a week. And then it's like, oh, that's dried blood, weird. But I feel like it just flakes off.

I don't even know what to Google actually. But no, man, if you're pouring, if you're smearing a big amount of blood on an object. Let's say there was a crime scene and a pool of blood on the ground. Yeah. No one ever cleans it up. Yeah, it's not.

What happens? Yeah. It's gonna grow stuff. It's gonna grow stuff. Don't you think? Yeah. Yes. Well, blood and the old.

That's an interesting question. It's different than Marie's question. Well, I guess I'm just wondering because if it could just stay there, then it just becomes like, there's just blood everywhere, which is its own intense way of experiencing something holy. But if it needs to be disinfected, then what happens?

Here's what's interesting. The Torah never addresses this issue. It just doesn't come up. Solomon's temple, when it's described in First Kings, chapter 6 through 8, there is a new addition of an element in the courtyard that was not present in the wilderness tabernacle, and that's a huge tub of water. It's called the sea. It's literally called the ocean. And it has these pedestals, you know, that are made of oxen and it's all gold and bronze and stuff like that. But it never says what all that water's for. It just says that it's there. So that's a factor. When you get into the second temple, so this is the temple built after

the return from exile, and then when Herod renovates the temple, in the first century, what we call the first century BC, we know from second temple literature, the writings of Josephus, also from archaeological finds that there were huge water systems created under the temple and conduit systems to pipe that water up onto the temple mount. And Josephus describes that how they would wash. So it's a process not described in the Torah, but it's just, I guess, taken for assumption or taken as assumed that a lot of this blood,

especially by the altar, is going to need pretty significant amount of water, washing it away. And so those systems were at work. In the second temple we know, probably in the Solomon's temple, because of that huge tub of waters for something. Well, and the tabernacle was just on the ground. Exactly, in the way that it is. And then they would move it. Totally.

So the blood could just stay there and they would move it. And then you could wipe it off of the object, suppose. So almost certainly, certainly, they were cleaning off the altar. Yeah. And the whatever ditch or drains around the altar. What's never mentioned is things that get smeared with blood like the curtains or the different all the the arc of the covenant. In the top of the atonement lid. It seems weird because the application

of the blood is what purifies. Yeah. So it seems weird that you'd go in a week later and wipe it off. Yeah, you would think they probably would just keep it there. Yeah. So, well, but what's even more fascinating is it's just that the detail never address. All right. Which should tell us something. It's a good example of we have questions that we come to the Bible with.

The biblical authors just don't answer. Yeah. And that creates an opportunity for us to say, okay, that's the question I have, but clearly the biblical authors are putting this information in front of me that introduces all kinds of questions. Yeah.

But what questions are they answering by how they tell it and what they focus on? And that's where they want our attention, which is clearly on the symbolism of purification, not of the literal cleaning or dirtying of the surface. That's almost incidental to them because they never address it. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. And it also helps to recognize what type of literature this is and that it's not.

This isn't to help you know how to create your own tarot knacle system. Yeah, that's right. Right. Yeah. Good. So because you like, there's so much left out, you would have to answer that. You wouldn't know exactly how to build it. You wouldn't know exactly how to run it. And the same thing goes for the laws. And we've talked about this many times. It's not a complete set of law code that you could then now run a tribal system off of. You're gonna left with a ton of questions. So whatever this literature is doing, it's not to say, cool, now you go and do this.

Yeah, that's right. So even though Leviticus and we jokingly call it like the priestly tech manual, in a sense, that's exactly what it's not, because it doesn't act like a manual, because it doesn't address so a manual because it doesn't address so many things you would need to address if it was. Yeah, so like where does the blood go? Yeah, so clearly the main point is on the symbolism of purification through a representative blameless life

that goes in, goes before God on my path. And that's the focus and therefore those are the details that are put forward in the narrative, but inquiring minds one now. Yeah, so thanks Marie Okay, it looks like we have a question from Elijah in West Virginia. Hi Tim and John This is Elijah Turk from Ransom in West Virginia. I have a question on the meaning behind the laying of hands that's described in the viticus. So on the day of atonement, and with the blasphemer, the laying of hands seems to indicate a transfer of sins and impurity.

But in the New Testament, it's specifically an ax with Paul, the laying of hands and sending out seems to accomplish a different role. Considering Paul calls himself a blasphemer prior to his conversion, is there supposed to be a connection between these two practices? Thanks for all you do, you guys. You are the best. Thanks Elijah.

No, no, no Elijah. You are the best. That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about the single hand press. Yes, the double hand press. Totally.

If I can remember correctly, your hypothesis is, and it's not clear. It's not explicitly stated. Not explicitly stated what this means, but that the laying of on a hands is saying, this thing that I am touching is now I'm associating myself with. A pointing it as my representative in my place. And appointing it as a representative in my place. So an association of a representative on my behalf. And so if that's the case, then that's the core meaning. That's the core meaning. Then the logic works for what the priest do to the goat as a representative.

And also what Paul does with. That's right. Um, who does he do with like? Yeah, he talks about the laying on of hands with Timothy. Okay. And then it happens when Paul and Barnabas are sent out from, I forget what church, maybe Antioch, they lay on lay their hands on the sentem. So even though the end result is very different, right? Like I'm the go as a representative, is gonna go and like wander in the wilderness. Yeah.

Well, oh, sorry, hold on. Yeah. But even within Leviticus, there's two different hand ceremonies. There's the single hand press, which you do for a burnt, for a ascension offering, or for the purification offering, or the guilt or reparation offering. Okay. You put your hand on it, one hand. Yeah. And you. Yeah. It's just you, yeah, just you put your hand upon it. And that's part of the

rich. It's not explained what it means. Yeah. Then you get the day of atonement. And it's the double hand press. And the high priest confesses the sins of Israel over it, placing them upon it. And that's the goat that goes into exile. Then you get the guy in Leviticus 24, the guy who pierces or curses God's name and everybody who heard it, puts their hands on him. And then he is taken out into exile outside the camp and executed. And then you get these laying on of hands in the New Testament. So the question is, does the laying on of hands inherently mean a transfer of sins? Well, that only accounts for one, maybe two of all of these. Right. What would account for all of them is the disappointing of a representative.

And what it means is that the placing of the sins on the goat is a little sub variation within the bigger meaning, which I think makes sense of the day of atonement. In the day of atonement, it is the sins of Israel, our sins are now represented by this goat, and instead of us going in exile, it goes in exile. Right. The blasphemer story is fascinating. But he is a type of scapegoat. He is. Yeah. It's as if they have all been defiled by hearing him curse the name. And so they take their corporate or the communal impurity and place it on him. And he is exiled and dies on their behalf like the goat for Azazel that goes into exile. It's interesting. But the core meaning in all of those, regardless of placing sins or not,

is the appointing of a representative. So I think what Elijah was doing with, well, maybe there's something with how Paul used to be a blasphemer is trying to figure out a way, how does the link on a hand, this transferring some sort of guilt? But you don't have to figure that out if the laying on the hands isn't a strictly about transferring guilt. It's about transferring a representative authority

to represent. It's transferring authority to represent. That's right. Yeah. So if that representative is going to bear your guilt or bear your calling. Right. That's the difference. That's it. Yeah. Yes. For Paul with Timothy or Paul and Barnabas with the church that sends them, instead of the whole house church going on the

missionary journeys, they send two representatives and they represent that church on the road out there. That's the idea. So yeah, about representation is the core meaning. Great. Yeah, thanks Elijah. Great question. Next we have a question from Sarah from Australia. Hi Tim and John, it's Sarah from Sunny Sydney in Australia. Thanks so much for the work that you do with Bible project. It makes a huge difference in the lives of many people. I have a question about the day of atonement, specifically the two goats, and I'm wondering is there any connection with Kane and Abel? Kane, who is sent off into the wilderness and Abel, whose blood is spilled on the ground.

Thanks again. Oh. Yeah. That's a really fascinating observation. It's a wonderful observation. Holy cow. Okay. Is there something there? Of course there is.

Oh my goodness. Of course there is. Wow. Yeah. We are just in the middle real time, also while we're recording this, we're recording a series of conversations about a theme video on the first born,

theme of the first born. So Cain enables on the brain. So Cain enables already on our minds because we've been talking about that story more recently. Yeah. So Cain enables, they give a sacrifice to God, God chooses able sacrifice, our favors it, puts his attention on it first. Makes cane jealous,

cane kills able and the blood of able is spilled on the ground and it calls out and there's this like this this idea of the blood crying out begins here. It's a very vivid image of the blood on the ground. Yeah, but then there's this vivid image of cane being sent into exile. And what she's saying is, look at the two goats. There's the same two things happening. One goat, its blood is spilled on the ground. On behalf of the violence of humans.

And the other goat is sent into exile. Now what's interesting though is cane sent into exile but he's protected. This goat is sent to exile but he's protected. This goat is sent to exile and you don't get a sense that it has any sort of protection on it. I'm sorry one other detail of the Cain narrative when when God speaks to Cain and says your brother's blood cries out from the ground. You are cursed from the ground. This is Genesis 4, 11 and following. When you work the ground, it will no longer give its strength to you. You'll be a migrant and a wanderer in the land, the exile.

And Cain said, my A-von is too great to bear. We made a word study video about A-von. We made a word study video about a von. And what's fascinating, it's one of the, what I call the bad words in Hebrew, one of the three big words for sin or evil. It's the word usually translated iniquity. What's fascinating is a von can refer to both the wrong action and to the consequence for that action. So what he says literally is my avon, which can refer both to the thing I did to my brother. And...

The punishment I'm getting here. The consequence is being assigned to him. So you could read it two ways. You could say the wrong that I've done is too great to bear. Meaning how can I bear my sin? Yeah. Which is exact and it's the verb to bear is to carry nasa and Hebrew, nasa to lift up. And it's the word used of animals sacrificed on behalf of to prefer wrong doings. They carry your sin or they carry your oven. Oh, it's a

standard phrase in Leviticus. Oh, in other words, Cain is using the Levitical language to talk about himself as a sacrifice, carrying the consequences of his wrong for his brother. So even his language is as if he's a talking goat in the moment saying, I can't carry, I can't carry the sins. It's too much. And that's when God has mercy and doesn't give him the death penalty. So you're right. So in other words, what we're saying here

is in the Cain-enabled narrative, we're already, it's a story being told within eye towards the day of Atonement and Leviticus. But as you read through the Torah, it also works forward so that when you get to that day of atonement, you're meditating on a theme that you've already been invited to think about many times over throughout the Torah. And that's of when humans do evil, it defiles the land such that God must respond to it

and he can't ignore. And so the two goats act together as one symbol that's divided into two. One goat enters in, it dies, and therefore can enter into the presence of God with its blameless life. And then the goat bearing, the consequences is exiled. But that's a pattern that's already been at work in how God, in the

outworking of God's response to human evil throughout the earlier stories. Does that make sense? Yeah, so what are we supposed to reflect on with Cane and Abel? That cane is in some way like a sacrifice, but he instead, he and he has sent out into exile, but you get the sense with the goats that the goat being sent out to Azazel is gonna die. Yeah, maybe. I just doesn't say it doesn't say it doesn't what's fascinating is in later Jewish tradition. When the ritual is filled out more with more detail, because you need to if you you're gonna turn it up, you're gonna do it. So in both the later Jewish collections, the mission and the Talmud, there's more specification of what to do with the goat. And I know at least one tradition,

I forget if it's in the mission or the Talmud or both, is that pushing it off a cliff. Yeah, you mentioned that, that's right. Make sure it actually dies. Make sure it, because you don't want it to wander. You don't want it back in, you don't want to send wandered back in. Yeah. Totally. So, but Abel's the sacrifice too. It's his righteous blood. So to speak. That's crying out. It's crying out before God and God. Here's an appeals to it. Yeah.

So in other words, somebody wants us to see a close analogy between those two moments in the Torah and to meditate on them. And that's kind of what we're doing. Yeah. Okay, so there's a lot of cool moment to meditate on that. I think we don't have time to really do that whole thing proper, but to answer the question. Yes. Yes. There is a deep connection and actually this connects to our next

question, which I just put the two together, but I was amazed that the cane-enabled thing came up in so many questions and so did this next question, which I will let Abraham from Oregon articulate. Hi Tim and John. my name is Abraham, and I live in Klamathol's Oregon. My question is about episode six, about the day of Atonement. Last spring, my college group studied the life of Abraham in Genesis.

And when you guys talked about the two goats, one sent into the wilderness and one for the sin offering. It made me think about how God asked Abraham to send one son into the wilderness and to sacrifice the other in Genesis 21 and 22. Is that significant? If so, does it change how we understand the narrative or the law? Thanks for all you do. So you're saying multiple people were making these connections? Yes. Yeah. Multiple people ask both of these questions. Oh my goodness. This makes me so happy.

Yes, yeah multiple people ask both of these questions. Oh my goodness. It makes me so happy As wild okay. Yeah, yeah, that's clear is it yes Whoa, yeah Yeah Maybe elaborate on what he's saying Okay, so what, way to go Abraham. The short answer is yes, it's significant. And yes, I think it should inform how we understand both those stories and the laws and how they're connected.

So the biblical authors had an eye towards ish male and him being sent out, being like a goat, or the Isaac being brought up into, up the mountain to the holy place, and being sacrificed, and parallel of the other goat. Like those two ideas were present. Yeah, what I'm saying is that the entire Torah in all of its various parts have been coordinated.

It's been coordinated, so that you're really just cycling around a core set of ideas, whether you're in the narratives about the Canaanable or of Abraham or in the ritual symbol narratives of Povidicus. We're really just cycling around a core or of Moses or of Aaron and his sons. It's just on replay. The melody. So, and here, it's, you have a key figure, Abraham, who God has elevated and chosen and blessed, he and his wife. They make a royal mess of things through all these rivalries, producing two children out

of their energy and rivalry and abuse. And so what God does is require the lives of both sons, but also restoring miraculously the life of both of these sons. But almost as a form of rescuing from their parents' sins. So for Ishmael, he and his mom were exiled to the east into the wilderness, but then spares their lives at the last moment. And so they map clearly onto Cain, the nonchosen firstborn,

whereas the secondborn is chosen, but that's the one who has got also demands his life to be a sacrificial offering, and then God, the twist from Cain and Abel, is God provides a substitute that dies in the place of Isaac on the Mount. What's happening on the day of Atonement is another iteration of exploring these themes of its always judgment and mercy. And it's responding to human evil. It's interesting when these stories are rift on, it's always little variations. So it's can enable cane murders his brother makes his brother the sacrifice out of his

evil. And the Abraham story, it's Abraham's evil that has God ask him as a test to sacrifice the the evil character, the younger brother, Isaac. Yeah. And then when we get to the goats, now you're just like, this theme is there and you're thinking about, okay, human evil, sins being on these goats, one being brought up into God's presence as a sacrifice, one being sent out. Yeah. And yeah, the continual pattern is that human evil and human failure is dealt with in these two ways of one through a righteous Representative. That's the one being brought in. The goes before God to and and receive God's mercy

paired with or matched with this need to banish and do away with evil once and for all by sending it into the wilderness. But what's interesting is with Cain, God comes to him with the opportunity to confess, just like he did to his parents. And where's your brother? And when he sends him out, he puts the sign on him to protect him. To protect him. And so similarly with Ishmael, the exile of Ishmael and Hegar is also a kind of mercy because if they stick around,

like Sarah's just gonna be a really abusive and mean to them. So it's this tragic necessity. And what God says is I'm gonna bless Ishmael. And he protects them in exile. And he provides them water in the wilderness. Yeah. So.

But you don't get the sense of the goat bearing the sins of Israel is gonna get like, yeah, sure. Like some water in the wilderness. But you don't get the sense of the goat bearing the sins of Israel is going to get like, yeah, sure. Like some water in the wilderness. Yeah, totally. But it makes you wonder what does happen to that goat is bearing the sins that goes out. Yeah.

Because Cain was protected, ishmael was black. Yeah, totally. That's so interesting. It is so interesting. Yep. Yep. One of the other sibling sets in Genesis that we didn't talk about, but that's for sure connected in here is Jacob and Esau. One of, remember when Esau comes out of the womb, what, um, what does mom says about him is he's, uh, saw ear, which means Harry. It's the word goat. Oh, it's the word for goat.

It's the word goat. Yeah, Harry. He's goat. He's goat Harry. Goat Harry. Yeah. And so the two goats on the Day of Atonement are called Seir, which is one of Esau's names. So when you're reading the Day of Atonement, you see Esau in the goat that's exiled to the east, just like Esau is.

So the Day of Atomah is bringing together all of these themes of these sibling rival sets and which are all about this complex response to the people. That's the bottom of it is it's the complexity of God's response of fronting evil, banishing evil, standing up for justice for those who have experienced evil, but then the same time forgiving and allowing people to be reestablished

and relationship with God who have forfeited that through their evil and this tension. And you can see it in the goats, but now we're meditating on it in the way that happened with Canaanable and Isaac and hisch. Jacob and Esah. Yeah. And then what's interesting then is with the gospel narratives present this in other fascinating ways. We've explored this with the two Jesus' four-pilot. Do you remember this? Jesus' Barabas, Bravis, and then Jesus, son of Joseph.

Did we talk about this? Yeah, we have in the past. There's two alternate titles. There's two figures named Jesus. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, ohabbas, which is a hermit for son of the father. Who's that, an actual criminal? He's an actual criminal. And then Jesus of Nazareth, who is innocent, and what they all say is, give us the guilty one. Give us Jesus Barabbas. So it's just kind of you have this twin duo thing, almost like a sibling kind of thing, one place of the other. So you have the innocent who dies in the place of the guilty, but then you have Jesus who, he both dies.

So he dies like the goat that is selected to be sacrificed and have his blood brought into the holy place. Yeah. But then he's also taken outside the city. Jesus is. Jesus is. In Nazareth. And he dies outside the city, which, you know, whoever wrote Hebrews, mapped that on to the goat that's exiled outside the city.

So he's both, he's both goats. So Jesus is both goats. Yeah. Totally. That's an interesting insight. But then you're also saying the moment where Pilate says what Jesus do you want, we're also supposed to see kind of a two-go thing going on there. The innocent, the innocent and the guilty, because on the day of Atonement, one goat is

blameless. That's the one that dies. And then one goat has the sins placed upon it, and that's the one that's exiled. But it's yet another creative twist where the innocent Jesus takes on both of those fates while the guilty Jesus Barbaugh goes free. Super interesting. So, um, good job everyone. Totally. That was great, man. Yeah, well I think once you start to read the scriptures with a certain mindset, skill set, and you're looking for unified language and ideas across all the different parts, you really see it because it's really there.

But if you're not forcing it, taught, to ask or look for that, you won't. And so for me, it's just rewarding because it makes me feel like this bigger community that's learning along with us. Yes, it was. We're reading the Bible as meditation there. Yeah, totally. Super cool.

Okay, we've got a question from Jessica in Wisconsin. Well, my name is Jessica and I live in Appleton, Wisconsin. In Leviticus 4, the author mentions that if someone sins unintentionally, they are to bring us sin or purification offering to the tabernacle. I'm imagining that every person would be coming just about every day to make a sacrifice. I am mostly just amazed. Through this example alone, how much blood and how many dead animals are required to uphold the Levitical Law. How is it even animals are required to uphold the living of the law.

How is it even possible to even partially uphold the law? Thank you for all you do. That's a great question. That's a great question. Now, it's part of the answer to this that they actually got to eat these animals too. Like, some of these offerings they could, like the burt offering, right? That thing just gets fired up and smoke rises and it's gone. But some of them, it's kind of like you're treating it like the butcher shop. Yes.

And you're like, you get to partake in the animal. Some for the priests, some for you, just depends. Yeah. Yeah. What about the, this one about the unintentional sins? Which one is that? Oh, well, that's actually any of the three sacrifices that a tone, said to a tone, or provide a tone for sins, are for unintentional sins.

For intentional sins, it says there's no, it's just that's not covered. Oh, which is terrifying. So, and once again, it's a great example of how if you're going to fill out a comprehensive system, you would need a lot more specification to cover all the varieties, which is again, what later Jewish tradition does in the mission in the Talmud as they cover these sections. Okay, so I guess here's the question, did every Israelite bring an animal for every, you know, unintentional infraction every day, like keeping a tally, today I have three goats,

you know, and you're just constantly doing that. Then I think you're right. What's fascinating is we don't get that impression of how the system actually worked in practice. In fact, we don't actually have narratives that talk in detail about how many people were coming or how often it was, which is again, kind of like Marie's question earlier, that the rituals are there to explore the ideas through the melat cycling of the melody for meditation for the reader, not to tell us how the system actually worked in practice.

So we don't know. Was it possible that you just bring one goat? Every new moon. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, we just don't have that information of how this system worked. So here's what I haven't done. And I probably should at some point. I bet there's more information in second temple literature about how people thought about the practice in the system in the second temple period.

Yeah. Because they were doing it. Yeah. And it was economically viable. Mm-hmm. It wasn't bankrupting. Totally. Oh, yeah, because that's another factor. It's sort of like these animals are precious resources,

which is what makes the sacrifice valuable. But yeah, you're gonna end up sacrificing your whole flock. Right. So there's some way, which the ritual was effective and meaningful, but it seems like probably you weren't doing it every day. So there's some way which the ritual was effective and meaningful, but it seems like probably you weren't doing it every day. And there's just gaps in our knowledge because the tour doesn't address it. Yeah, that's one factor.

Another factor is I know for, and I don't know if it's just Protestants in my experience experience because that's mainly the tradition I have personal experience in. But there's often this moment when we come across all of these laws, especially the ritual laws, and we think, like, this is impossible. How could anyone have done this? And I want to make sure I'm not just importing my own kind of cultural prejudice or my own. I'm not saying this about you Jessica, I'm saying this about myself. Like I have this own inner kind of.

Are you talking about the thought of the reason why these laws are so intense is to show you how it's impossible to please God through your own efforts? Oh. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, kind of, kind of. But I think that sense of impossibility can also translate sometimes to, we read all the laws and we just think, that's just too much. Yeah.

Too much for anybody to do. And it doesn't seem like that is ever an idea that entered the biblical author's minds or even most Jews who ever wrote or expressed. When Jewish, or Israelite authors talk about the laws of the Torah, they celebrate and they love it. So thankful for that. They're thankful for it and they see it as a way to life. And so I just want to make sure that when I look, feel the strangeness and the overwhelming and I look, feel the strangeness and the overwhelming pressure

that bring all these sacrifices that it doesn't seem like that's ever how any Israelites experience. That's really good. Cause you could get this brooding sense of like that the tabernacle system is just sucking the life out of the community. Like give me all your goods, give me your goats and give me your,

and like, and it's like, oh, we just gotta appease this thing. Versus this sense of a joy in being able to participate and being like, I get to reconcile with a friend, and we get to bring, I'm gonna bring this, this offering, and then we're gonna have a feast. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, these kind of like moments where it's like, I get to be a part gonna have a feast. Yeah. Like these kind of moments where it's like, I get to be a part of this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For example, as you're talking, it just brought the end of Psalm 118 to my mind. And it's actually, the section begins with what people say about Jesus when he rides into Jerusalem. Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.

Blessed is the one, blessed are you from the house of the Lord. And in the poem, here, it's about the king coming to participate in a sacrificial liturgy walking up to the temple. During the week of Passover. Oh, that's what Jesus was doing. That's what Jesus was doing. Yeah, but the poem continues in Psalm 118 and verse 27, the Lord is God, He's given us light.

He gives us light, Genesis 1. So bind the festival sacrifice with cords to the horns of the altar. You are my God, I give thanks to you. You're my God, I praise you. Give thanks to the Lord. Like they're stoked. Bringing this sacrifice because they view it that he always has given this opportunity

to them to make, to be reconciled and to have peace with God. And that's how they experience. That's when Israelite authors talk about the sacrifices. That's what they feel. They don't feel the, or they, that's at least not sacrifices, that's what they feel. They don't feel the, that's at least not the thing that's described. Not like a wavy burden that they're just like, man, I have to get this over with. Yeah. So I want to get to the place where that's my default way of experiencing these, these laws. And I just, I appreciated your honesty, Jessica, in naming that, that feeling, because I think it's something a lot of us feel too.

All right, moving on. Okay, let's look at a question from Rowena in New Zealand. Hi, this is Rowena from New Zealand. I was interested in what you were saying about the sacrifices and how the blood of the blameless animal represents its life and not its death. And I wondered how that changes how we see what Jesus is doing when he institutes communion and essentially says to his followers,

this is my blood for you to drink. Thank you. Yeah, do you remember this point in our conversations about the symbolism of the blood and? Isn't it weird that we talk about drinking the blood? Jesus. Yeah It's like a weird. Yeah, you step back and you're just like that's Depends on very odd the angle that you're coming from But from one angle that's our like cultural location and upbringing, it's weird to talk about drinking blood. However, in many cultures, it's not.

Actually, I was just so weird. I just happened to be at some event and I was meeting like somebody who's really skilled and accomplished like Bo Hunter here in the state of Oregon like he actually has like Some uh Want some awards for his bow-ending skills Hey, it was fascinating person to talk to But somehow we got onto the topic of like you know when he's dressing or

Preparing cutting apart, you know an animal out in the wilderness and you know how For him a way to honor the gift that God provided for him in life, this animal, this one that provides food for his family for a long time. But also that he feels obligated to use every part of the animal towards some productive end and not just leave stuff in the field that he doesn't leave anything out there. Oh yeah, some like the hooves and but he takes a lot.

Does he take the guts? He takes a lot more than you would imagine. Okay. But what he was talking about, for example, was the blood and about he was talking about his nutritional value. Oh yeah. And then he starts talking about all these other cultures, he starts naming them. It just dream about it.

Yeah, because it's such a precious resource. So that of course was prohibited in Israel. Highly prohibited. Highly prohibited for because of the symbolic value attached to the blood. But my, I guess my point is the idea of drinking blood is abnormal depending on your social location. So I'm with you. I have a revolution to it as well. But it is, it is not weird in some other cultural settings. Yeah. So, so in the logic of the Torah,

blood represents life. And just to be clear, we were talking about a key passage in the chapter next to the Day of Atonement, chapter in Leviticus. So, David Thomas Leviticus 16, in the chapter afterwards, Leviticus 17, is a series of laws for the wilderness generation, saying whenever you butcher any animal, bring it to the tent and

Dedicate its life and its blood Yahweh and then Leviticus 1711 because the life of the flesh is in the blood I Have given it to you on the altar for making a tonement for yourself, because it is the blood. Mmm, our English translation is really struggle. It's a dense statement. For the blood, it is by means of its life that it provides atonement. Blood by the means of its life. So the point at the atonement.

So the point here, I think, in our conversation, and what you're tracking on, Rewana, is the explicit symbolism attached to the blood is not death as the main point. Right. It's that it is life. Now, of course, it's the life of a creature separated from its body. Separate it from its body through death. Yeah.

I just wanted to clarify, I'm not saying that the blood has nothing to do with death. Right. The primary emphasis is on the blood is the representation of a blameless life. But the way that that blood and that life gets brought into the holy of Holies or to the holy place is through its death. But the death is not the foreground. It's the surrendering of the blameless life. The death is the way the blood became detached from the body. The blood itself represents life. Correct. That's right. The life from the body. And the blood itself represents a life.

Correct. That's right. The life of the animal. You wouldn't look at a bowl of blood and think that's alive, or perhaps you would, depending on your cultural position or background. But this is a deeply biblical idea, which I can't even fully wrap my head around, which is,

like there is the aliveness of, is this what they're saying? For me, to be a living being, which is the breath of God in me. That animates the flesh. That animates my flesh. Yeah. In the same way I can think of it that way, when I have died, there's still a living element which is represented in the blood in some way. My life. The blood is life. It's the stuff pumping through you and providing, in a way, this is a more modern viewpoint, but the blood,

the vehicle of the oxygen, of the breath. Yeah, it's actually right. They were on to something. How it works. Yeah, but the blood, yeah, the blood is the life. So the blood assumes that the animal has gone through death and by surrendering its life, it's precisely through the act of surrender unto death, that the life can now enter into and appeal to God with this blamelessness. That's the essence of the symbol. So when Jesus is talking

about my blood, he is referring to his coming death, but he's referring to the death as the vehicle, the means by which his life, his blameless life, will cover for the sins of the many. And so when he invites us to drink his blood, he's inviting us to drink his life, which is why, for example, in Eastern Orthodox liturgy, there's a close connection of drawn between taking the Eucharist, bread, and the cup, and eating from the tree of life. In both cases, you're ingesting life. And so in Orthodox Liturgy, the Adam and Eve, it's Jesus becomes both the new humanity and the tree of life giving us his life to ingest for ourselves.

So the emphasis is on life with the death assumed as a vehicle. And I think that's what's going on there. So thanks, Rowena, great question. It's a good opportunity to clarify and meditate on the meaning of that symbol. All right, here's a question from Emily in Canada. Hi, my name is Emily and I'm from Prince Albert Saskatchewan.

Growing up, I was taught that the best approach to Leviticus was studying for types and anti-types that point to Jesus. While I've never been entirely compelled by this approach, especially as it doesn't account for what the average Israelite thought about Leviticus, reading this book without the New Testament seems and wise. How much should the New Testament influence how I read Leviticus? I appreciate your response, and I'm so grateful for all the work that you do. Yeah, great question. How would you restate her question? My hunch, Emily, and maybe it's just personally, I resonate with it from my own journey,

with being a follower of Jesus reading. The Old Testament is, in the first class, as I took about the Bible, at the Christian college I attended, I wasn't invited to understand Leviticus on its own terms within its own narrative context, or symbolic logic. It was sort of like the book that you go to when essentially you want to explain what happened to Jesus on the cross. Right.

And so you refer everything to that and you just, you hopped into Leviticus and think about the symbolism that way. So, and I think that the common approach in many Christian traditions. And so, I guess what we're trying to model, I guess in two ways. One, we're trying to really get into what's the ancient context of these rituals and what do they convey. But also, what we're doing with the melody is trying to track how Leviticus is actually working out through hyperlinks and

narrative patterning, like the stuff with all the siblings of Genesis, that in its narrative and literary context, Leviticus is exploring the key themes that all of the Torah and the prophets are exploring, and the New Testament authors are drawing and filling out and continuing on that process. So I think the way I would talk about my own journey, Emily, is that my first acquaintance with Leviticus was very much like what you're describing. Which would be like, okay, so Jesus had to die as a sacrifice. Oh, let's understand that because there was

animal sacrifices in the Old Testament. Where was that Leviticus? Okay, let's find the verses that help us understand how Jesus was a sacrifice. Yep, that's right. Now I'll get you into Leviticus and reading it and thinking about it, but probably not as a whole. No, we're not trying to understand

its literary design and message and what it's trying to communicate within the context of the Torah. Right, probably. That's not. Because you're not gonna be that interested in all the different types of yeah Yeah, sacrifices there were and how those all relate to all the themes in the Torah

Your your the purity rituals are gonna feel kind of bizarre. Yeah stuff like that and And that's how they were to me from for many years. So one way that I've tried to imagine the project that my life turned into, which is trying to recover the way that Simian or Anna, who are featured in the early chapters of the Gospel of Luke, how would they have read and understood the scriptures or the bit of case? So Simeon was an old man, righteous and devout devoted to the laws of the Torah, and he was revealed to him that the Messiah, that his Bible pointed to, would be revealed in his day, or Anna, a prophetess who hung out praying every day in the temple. How did they read and understand Scripture? Because they firmly believed it pointed to their need for an anointed deliverer

for Israel and humanity. They just didn't know what person that would be, and that's what's revealed to them. So I want to read Luticus and see what they saw, and understand it in those terms. And then what I think that does for me is it reverses the flow, instead of reading the New Testament back into Lviticus, it reverses it, so that I'm now reading the portraits of Jesus and the Gospels and seeing how they draw upon the image and language of Leviticus to portray Jesus. And that's more a relationship of continuity. The gospels come downstream as opposed to, yeah, there we go. But in that sense, it's reading the Bible

as a unified story that leads to Jesus. In which case, you're gonna come out with many of the same observations But in that sense, it's reading the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus. In which case, you're gonna come out with many of the same observations that you did way back at the beginning. Yeah. I think you'll just find them in a bigger context. Richard, more nuanced, more interconnected.

Yeah, and more compelling. And more compelling. I think, yeah. Yeah, I get it. Okay, so her question very explicitly was how much Pelling and more compelling. I think. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Okay. So her question very explicitly was how much should the New Testament influence our read Leviticus? Well, if you're following with Jesus, the only reason you're reading Leviticus is kind of

the only reason. Yes. But she also asked, is it unwise to read Leviticus without the New Testament mind? And what you were just saying was like, well, I mean, no, like simian. Yeah, that's how he read it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's almost like what a gift that simian was so saturated in the rituals and the literature of the Torah. Yeah. So that when Jesus came, he would able to connect those dots. Yep, that's right. Yeah, the author to the Hebrew is very similar. You could experience what he's doing there

as he's just kind of picking out of context passages from Leviticus and saying Jesus did that. But I don't, we could sit down with that author whoever they were. I think they would describe it as the opposite and say everything that the Leviticus was pointing forward to along with all of the Torah and the prophets is what supplies, the categories for that author to make sense of Jesus in the first place.

And so what we're talking about is the Bible as Messianic literature. Yeah, that's right. Yep. So we've been in this conversation we've talked about the Bible as meditation literature. Yeah. And as Messianic literature. And this all gets back to what we're doing that this is Messianic literature that we're supposed to meditate on day and night and we'll be able to swiss them and connect us to God. That's right.

Which isn't to say that every Israelite that participated in these rituals in the wilderness understood all of that. What we're saying is the authors who have woven Leviticus and shaped it to have the form. Paul said it was hidden within the Torah that all of it is a part of a message that the Torah and prophets are communicating. And that's what Simeon and Anna saw. And when they read their scriptures, what was on top of mind for them was who and when is it gonna be? Yeah. That's what they got from reading their Bible.

Or the stories where Jesus talks with the... On the road to the mass is it? Or just like, let me tell you about how... Yeah. Jesus talks with the, on the road to the mass, is it? Or he's just like, let me tell you about how, yeah. How I'm in, in all these stories. Yeah, that's right. Or when he went to his disciples,

and then he taught them how the whole Hebrew Bible was about him. Yeah. It was fascinating there, that's that the other end of Luke's gospel, I mean, the anointment at the beginning. So they're very expectant. Yeah. And at the other end of's gospel, I mean the aneurysm beginning, so they're very expectant. And at the other end of the gospel you have this man and woman couple, the two on the road to Emmaus, oh I've never

thought about this. And they have no, they are clueless because for them, the Jesus dying, to them was the failure of all their hopes, not the fulfillment of the scriptural hopes. to them was the failure of all their hopes, not the fulfillment of the scriptural hopes. Jesus had to show them how, if you can see it, it's actually there in their scriptures. That's right. So the manner of Jesus fulfilling the scriptural hopes, through his death and resurrection, was the twist and a surprise to many. And he's saying, it's right there in the, in the Torah and prophets and Psalms, if you have eyes to see it.

You think Jesus would have looked at the day of Atonement with them? Oh, well, I don't know. I'm surely, surely. Yeah, but at this point, it's like, I can't go anywhere in the Torah and the prophets and not find the same basic things like Cain and Abel. Yeah. It's also the same ideas that's what's going on

that it's the day of the tournament. And the right isch maleizing. Anyway, thank you everybody. It's wonderful questions. There was many we couldn't get to. Yeah. Thank you for sending them in. Yeah.

I'm imagining someone who's maybe sent in like five questions we've never gotten to it. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Sorry. It's a, many of you sending questions. There's a lot to work through. So we're, we do our best to highlight the repeated ones. And anyway, we did man.

And everybody, thank you. Thank you both for participating. And also, uh, many of you send really encouraging, like notes to us, email or whatever. And, um, we're whatever. We just celebrate how awesome Jesus is, the scriptures are, and that we get to be in this big community that's learning how to read and meditate on these texts that lead us to Jesus. What a great thing to be alive. So thanks everybody, all the best, and we'll do another Q and R with the numbers scroll down the road. Yeah, cool Bubble project is a car fun and nonprofit and we exist to experience Bible as unified story that leads to Jesus and everything that we make

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