Big Bro with Kid Cudi - Kid Cudi & Lena Waithe Just Wrote Hollywood’s Raunchiest Threesome Comedy

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

The genius and creator of The Chi Lena Waithe dropped by the attic this week. We go into crazy stories together of how we met, and we even write a romcom together in the moment so you can see her brilliant creative process working in real time. This week’s episode and Big Recs are brought to you by Apple Gift Card. Visit applegiftcard.apple.com to gift one today. BetterHelp: Head to www.betterhelp.com/BIGBRO for 10% off your first purchase. subscribe for new eps of Big Bro launch every Wednesday https://www.youtube.com/@BigBroCudiBig Bro is a Wave Original.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for more good vibes, tune in everywhere @bigbrocudi⁠⁠instagram.com/bigbrocudi⁠⁠⁠⁠tiktok.com/@bigbrocudi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wave. Lena, thank you for coming to Big Bro. Like, when I see your ass, I'm like, Scott, what is happening? I love the idea of us, like, we used to date until I finally came out to you. Okay. And also, we followed love with the same girl, because she's by, and it's like, what's up? The girl is kind of like, I'm a free bird. I can't be held down.

You know them type of women, right? Yeah, I call them Butterflies. Do you know, do you know they're remaking that movie now? Okay, I'm nervous about that. Because it's like, are they going to remake the moment? Because that moment was iconic. You can't beat it. You can't beat that moment. I don't even know they made that happen.

Don't even if I don't want to think about it. I didn't have shit. And I just put day and night on my MySpace. Ooh, come on, MySpace. And then after the second album and I saw people like that, then it was like, oh, no, I can really pivot because I just totally missed this sophomore jinks. And I came with a fucking Terminator 2 on the sequel. Yep.

Why do you ever think that people don't want to hear? hear you that people won't fuck with you anymore. Look at all these people. Come on. They love you, bro. It gets to the part where it's like, yo, show me a picture. And you show me a picture and I'm like, you both got a picture of K. Lottie on the phone. What's good, y'all? Welcome back to Big Bro with Kid Cutty, a wave original presented by Apple gift card. I'm your big bro, Scott, coming to you live from the attic of my mind. This week, I'm sitting down with a legend in TV and film, creator of the shy,

and my home girl, the one and only Lena Waith. We dive into our own rom-com, meditating, and our favorite Chicago movies. So kickback, bye about and enjoy. See you on the side.

Lena, thank you for coming to big bro. This is like a big deal. You know, your podcast was the first podcast I started watching to like kind of study how to do this shit. You remember I text you and I was like,

asking you questions. That was a huge compliment. That meant a lot. That you were inspired and that it made you want to lean in and do your own thing. I was very happy to hear that. Thank you for inspiring me. Oh, thank you. And you inspired me beyond the podcast, though. You're just such an amazing creator. And, and, you know, I'm now in this place of my life where I'm writing and directing my own stuff. And it's really exciting because a lot of people don't notice, but I've been writing scripts since 2013. Wow. I didn't know that.

Yeah, but I've been, you know, like, when people have, like, a little secret thing they're working on and they're not really good at it so they don't tell anybody. And they just keep that shit to know, Lena. They keep that shit to their selves. I wasn't trying to tell nobody. I'm like, okay. So, like, for a while, this was just trying to work out the Kings. And then 2016 was when I first gave my script to my agent.

And she told me it was fucking good. And I was like, that kind of gave me the confidence. So, like, I want to ask you, like, when did this all start for you, like, screenwriting and get into the space of creating worlds? And then I want to get into the shy. I want to ask you how that came about. For sure. I mean, for me, I was always watching television.

Yeah. I was always, and being a 90s kid, we had a plethora of things to watch. Yeah. Whether it be a lot of sitcoms. Yeah. That was that era. And, but that was cool because your kids and your parents could watch those things together. So I was able to watch a lot of TV with my mom and my grandmother and my aunt and things like that.

It was a family affair. Yeah, like a different world, Cosby Show was very family friendly. But it was also, particularly with a different world, it was sort of pushing the envelope in terms of what you could talk about on a TV show. And then also Roseanne was also like that. But then you'd also have like these like off the beating patch. It was like Charles and Char, Small Wonder, these sort of like, you know, punky booster shows that are sort of full house. So when I got older, but I've said that when I was a kid, I wanted to be. television writer because I love TV so much.

And people are, how did you know that was a job? It's like, I would read the names and the credits. And that, to me, it was like, who are these people? Who are these people, these people writing the words the actors say? And that was really fascinating to me. And then when I got to college, I started writing scripts because I studied writing and producing television at Columbia College in Chicago. Nice.

And I got to really study TV, the history of it. So I got to watch the old shows, which I would do. I was watching Nick at night and do all that kind of stuff. Dick Van Dyke, good times, all in the family. But I had to really understand the history of certain television shows and the impact they had when they came out. And then understanding the importance of the shows I was watching at that time in real time. I got to watch Sex in the City in real time. I remember watching every week on HBO.

Maybe I shouldn't have been. But, you know, I... Yeah, because we didn't want to say, man. You know, Youngest. That's what I have. You got a single mom. She's like, look, I'm working. Like, please don't repeat what you here.

Like, just, you know, chill out. So we didn't have a lot of censorship, you know, we were watching jungle fever at 12, you know what I'm saying? That's true. No, that's true. We would just watch stuff. And so I always say it's why we're cool because we saw adult stuff when we were young. And now, like when we older, we're a little bit more laid back about them. Like nothing really shocks us.

We're not like easily rattled. But yeah, you know, so I think for me, I just, I really want to learn the craft of it. And it's Rocky. You're right at first. started writing like scripts in college. So like I'm 42 now. Yeah. So, so you know, 42 too. Yeah. So it's like we're on Jackie Robinson year. So it's just this thing of, I've been doing it for a while. And, and I've been practicing and getting reps in. And I'm still working at it. I'm still shooting free throws. That's why I love sports documentaries.

I love watching athletes, like the LeBrons, the Kobe's, the Jordan's. Because they have to always be on point. They have to be the best at all the, so it's never, oh, I got a championship ring. Let me relax. It's like, okay, now I got to go work hard, work even harder. Because somebody now is going to try to challenge me because I've gotten to this place. And you know that with music as well. Like it's just thinking like, yeah, somebody's the one. And then the mission becomes, well, who's the next guy? Yeah. And so it's also about adding and flowing. So it's like you got to understand the cyclical. There's going to be somebody hot right now, you know, and then

that person's not going to be hot in a little while, so then it becomes, what do you do when you're not hot? What do you do then? And so you have to get in the lab and reinvent and lean in and figure it out. And so for me, it's just been a game of trying to be really good at something.

Right. And then not resting on it if somebody says, you are really good. And that can happen when you win an award in that field, I live, if you're a television writer, you win an Emmy. It is a mountain top. But I did that at 33. And so there's a level of, you know, people going, okay, so you've done it. You're really good at writing television.

But then it's about, sure, and I'm going to write a movie and I'm going to go write a play and do other things, but I have to continue to strive at still trying to write something that connects with people. Yeah. And that isn't about competition at all. It's about me going inside myself and challenging myself to write something that is vulnerable and I'm scared to say. out loud. Yeah, yeah. And that's important, man, because I feel like, for me, like the stories that I've

been writing, the movies I've been writing, they're all rooted in, like, some type of deep, emotional theme. You know what I mean? And I'm realizing that, oh, man, this is the type of, like, writing I'm going to do, you know, but I'm going to keep, I know, like, with each thing I'm trying to, just like with the music, I want to keep exploring new things. And even this movie that I'm directing in September, like I'm talking with my DP, Justin, about like, you know, lenses and cameras we're going to use and shooting anamorphic and all the things, right?

And I decided we were speaking and we were like, look, it can't look like your first movie. Right. Like it has to be, because the first movie is not like this, that's a straight down the middle drama and then this is a fucking horror thriller. Right? So it's like it can't look and feel the same and needs to be like it's in a different fucking universe.

Absolutely. I mean, you always want to, it's the interesting thing about artists and our audiences. Where an audience meet to you sometimes is where they want to keep you. Yeah. Because also that's what makes you successful. Yeah. People tell you, yeah, keep doing that thing that people loved you for. But it is the weird thing about artists.

that, no, we are constantly evolving, constantly growing, constantly learning something new. So when we put something out, it's going to feel vastly different from the last thing. And that is an ebb and flow with your audience because they're kind of like, someone will just roll with you. There's a lot of people that are just like, I'm going wherever direction you're going. That's right. And those are the people that I think about the most when I'm cooking. Yeah.

Because for me, I am that artist that like every one of my 13 albums sound different from them. Absolutely. You know what I mean? For sure. It's like, I've been challenging the listeners since I entered the game. Yeah, you have. You know what I mean? For sure.

I feel like I'm on mushrooms when I'm listening to your shit sometimes. I'm like, what is he on? What's going on, man? And it's not like anybody told me to do that. Right. It's just after I did the first album, I was like, okay, people love this so much. What's next? Right.

It can be hard to follow that. Yeah. It's like, it's like trying to aim for that is not the goal. Right. It's not going to be fun. Nope. Let me try to make something different and a whole new experience. That was exciting for me.

And then after the second album and I saw people like that, then it was like, oh, no, I can really pivot because I just totally missed this sophomore jinks. And I came with a fucking Terminator 2 on the sequel. Yep. You know what I mean? So like now I can go anywhere I want to go. Like that's when we went to WZRD and I did the rock band and then I went to Indica, produced that myself, got back to hip hop. Yep. So it always has to, like people tell me like, yo, can you?

you do like a sequel of this album where you could do a sequel out and I'm like look I could you could but you're not going to be if you're expecting that this sequel to sound like that it's not going to happen it's like being miseducation to go into unplugged you know what I'm saying it's like there is a what an artist's experiences after success is something that a lot of people just don't see yeah it's a rebirth. It's a, it's a, it's a, okay, who am I now? Yeah. And so I, you know, I feel you. I think, you know, even, you know, the you mentioned the shy, it's like today is the day where the last episode of the series airs. So it's such, I know, so if we're sitting down today, you mentioned in that, it's very, it's been very reflective. It's been a, you know, he's, you know,

it's like, look, I look at the recaps. People do recaps and, you know, you hear from fans on, on social. We can call them our shy fam. Yeah, there's a lot of discourse. Of course. Yeah. Always, that's all it is. But, and we're grateful for it. You know what I mean? That's an exciting thing because there's a lot of TV shows that don't have that. I know.

It's like you got to, you know, take it. The hits with the hugs. But what's amazing is when you reach the end of something, you can't help but reflect on the beginning of it. And you think about it's been eight seasons, but really 10 years because it was a couple years of like, you know, we shot one pilot and we shot it again. And you had a mini room. It was a whole journey.

It's like for people. It's eight seasons for me. It's been a decade. And so I think, you know, the beginning of that show, I was a, I was, I was 32, you know. And so this was before I won it in me. It was on Master of None. So it really, I was a pup. I was a young pup learning and figuring it out.

And how do you have your own show and you got to cast of people and- Were you nervous? Because that's a huge undertaking. It is. And that's what people don't realize. I think like some young kids have a weird view of age. Like they think 30s is like old But like 32 is still young as fuck

This is what I'm saying You know what I'm saying? Like to be a creator of a TV show Like that's crazy You're still a baby at 32 Yeah and especially you're someone Who is thinking about all aspects Yeah You're involved in everything

Yeah You know what I mean? So it's and it's it's a beautiful thing That they saw That you Could be a leader in handle that, that they gave you that opportunity. I mean, well, also, you know something about leadership. It's, it's trial and error. Yeah. You know, you don't, you have to learn how to lead on the job. Yeah. And that can be tough. So you're going to drop the ball. You're going to do things that you

wish you had handled differently if you look back. There's just so many people that come to the table and everybody's coming with their own stuff. You know, people need things from you or expect things from you. And you can't always rise to the occasion. Yeah. And then also you got to be creative at end of it. You got to make something and then people are saying something. So I think I've kind of You gotta stay on your toes every fucking season. Your head is always on the swivel. Yeah, because it's like, and you are looking at the recaps. So you see what the discourse is. Absolutely. And you know what people, what characters people are checking for and all that and storylines they're following. Yeah. So like, how nerve-wracking is that to have to come up with new storylines, new twists that like keep the

viewer engaged for eight years? That's a long time. It is a long time. You know what I mean? Because people, TV shows make it to like good, successful TV shows, it's like, what, five, four or five seasons? Yeah, if you're really lucky, five is huge. And nowadays it's three. Yeah, three is a win. Yeah. Three is a big win. So eight is like, whoa, we don't have been on a journey together, y'all.

We don't have been in this other. Yeah, and I think the truth is, it is hit or miss. You're not going to always please everybody. And you know, in television writers' rooms, the staff does shift. You know, sometimes you'll have somebody one season and you'll add someone new the next season. Showrunners change, like the first. First, we had one show on for season one, a different one for season two, and then somebody

knew for season three, and then he stayed on for the rest of the show. So it's also just really about temperament, synergy, vibes, making sure everything is right. Like, you know, like in music, it's like in the studio, who's all in here? Who's the studio? Who's in here right now? You know what I mean? It's like everybody, energy doesn't always fit. Doesn't always make sense.

And so with the show, it's very much like that. You know, we'll have, so if we have, depending on who's in the room, somebody may pitch this story for this. That's interesting. Next season they're not there. somebody else is there, they're pitching something over here. And I'm like, oh, that's fly because of what your experiences are. So with TV, it is a group effort.

It does take a village. It's like, I obviously get to decide where we go and where we land. But then sometimes an actor is like, oh, I got a movie. Okay, cool. So that whole storyline we had lined up with this season that included him, we got to shift it, you know, because we want to give him that opportunity. You got to be quick on your toes. Oh, my God. Yes.

It's like always because people, people have to understand. Actors are people. So if somebody gets an opportunity or somebody gets sick or somebody just kind of wants to move on, we then have to rejigger the storyline around that. People say, what happened to this character? Why does this just go away? I mean, this is kind of boring, but this person had a baby and wanted to move to Argentina or this person, you know, got a movie and we didn't want to take away that opportunity from them, so we let them go. So sometimes seasons, that just happens. I mean, it is what it is. And but we work with actors as best we can. We never want to keep an actor from having an

opportunity and lock them and say, no, you can't go do that movie because you got to do this. Like, I just wouldn't do that because I was that actor or. I was that actor or, you're not. I was, on Master of None when I got the call to do Ready Player 1, season two, the reason why I'm not in it so heavily is because I was in London filming a movie, but that's also the season we did the Thanksgiving episode because we focused heavily on an episode for my character, which ultimately was one of the most successful episodes of the series. But, you know, I just know that feeling. And that's why it's important to be on both sides, to be an actor, to be a writer.

And so I can have a real empathy for actors when I'm like, okay, you have an opportunity. Let me make sure you can do that and we'll figure out what we're doing over here and if we want to come back. That's also cool. Yeah. But yeah, but it's crazy. The writers room is nuts,

trying to keep people engaged. But every season our ratings went up, you know, so I think this means that people spread the word. And that is iconic. I truly believe in if you build it, they will come. That's real.

And whoever comes is who comes. Like, you know, you got to find your people. You build it, you build something, you make something cool, and you put it out in the world, people are going to find it.

That's real. You know what I'm saying? That is all that happened with me. That's how people know who Kid Cuddy is. Yeah. Like I didn't have shit and I just put day and night on my MySpace. Ooh, come on, MySpace. I was using my friend's computer.

I was staying at my friend's house and family in East New York. We just had this dope-ass fire song with nothing, no money. And it became, like, popular just because people liked the song on MySpace. That's, yo. You know what I'm saying? That's the perfect example. of if you build it and it's good it will find people that's brilliant somebody got to do a documentary about my space yeah i think they're working on one now actually they are because a lot of

artists that i found and i'm still fans of now um it's because i was on my space like everybody else you know listening and stuff like that and it's just it was a hub it was a hub for musicians particular but for fans of music we just discovered so many new people yeah and it was cool like you could People could come to your page and take your song and have it on their page. Exactly. That was the big thing. And for me, I remember when they first started doing MySpace music pages, it wasn't for anybody, right? It was just for it only if you had a signed deal.

Oh. And then eventually they did it where anybody that makes music can make one. I thought it was always like that. No, no, no. It changed to that eventually. Wow. Okay. So like once it did that, then I was like, oh, shit.

Now I noticed and I said, oh, I can make a page. Wow. And that's when I made the Kit Cutty page. Oh, that's crazy. And then I would just put songs up there that I liked. And I'd just be like, hey, guys, let me know what you think of this song. And that's how it started, man. Just putting my shit out in the world and just seeing what happens.

And taking the big swings, man. I think that's another thing that I like to make sure my daughter understands is like, in life, man, it's going to be situations where you're going to be like, damn, that seems like really hard to do. but like trust me the reward of you doing that thing is going to be greater than anything you can imagine you know what I'm saying the reward from being able to accomplish that one thing that you thought was impossible you know like because I'm from Cleveland come on not too many people make it from Cleveland look Kim Whitley is what about my favorite people yeah yeah you know I mean we got Arsenio, you know what I'm saying? We got Steve Harvey, you know.

Yes. But like, it's one of those things where you never know what can happen. Yeah. And yeah, I forgot my point because I'm kind of stone. No, no, no, no. See, I didn't smoke before I came, but I brought him something. Did you bring me some weed? I did.

Yo, I got some weed for you. Yeah, I brought it. Yeah, I was like, yeah, because I was like, I think he does. Because I was like, are you Cali sober? Or are you like, you like, what? I don't know what motherfuckers do. now. It's like... So explain Cali Sober. What the fuck does that mean?

Oh, it just means that you don't do any other drugs. You only smoke weed. Okay. That's Cali Sober. Okay. Some people are. Because I don't really drink. I don't drink at all. I never have. Yeah. Drinking is like my relationship with alcohol was like,

okay, life sucks. Get fucked up. You know what I mean? Like it was never like, oh, I'm hanging out with friends. Let me have a little sipy, sip. It was always to get destroyed because I hated life and I wanted to get out of reality. Oh shit. So now that I'm in a better place in my life, like I don't think I ever, I thought about it. I was like, I don't think I ever really enjoyed myself when I was drunk. You know what I mean?

Oh, interesting. I think it was just like in the moment it made me like not give a fuck about shit in the moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like I can't look back and be like, oh, that was a good. memory when I was shit-faced in San Jose. That was wild. Oh, man. I'll show you that's for stories.

Running around the Capitol Stone Streets, butt naked. Oh, my God. Getting locked out of my hotel room at two in the morning. Oh, my God. Good times. Rock star shit. You have to have those stories. Like, I'm a television writer.

So my shit is like, you know, I don't even drink coffee. Like, so people are like... I don't drink coffee either. Oh, see, we... I hate coffee. Yo, we locked it. I can't fuck with it. People, we're weirdos.

people because people still ask me they're like Lena how do you do it they're like how do you wake up in the morning and you're ready to go and no coffee I'm just like I brush my teeth brush my teeth make a smoothie maybe we're weirdos though eat the assayee bowl come on you're such a hippie yeah I love with little bonola some strawberries some blueberries some blueberries yum yum yum we're weird we're weirdos but I mean I think what it means is I think you just kind of allow yourself to like just wake up and if you are tired you're tired because some people say how do you have a midday Everybody has a midday slump. Like you're tired around 4 o'clock.

I'm always turned up. Yeah, okay. I'm always turned up. Look, I'll take a nap if I need to. Maybe. You know, but I'm not. If I feel myself getting a little sluggy ducky, I'll take an hour. But it has to be an hour.

Can't be longer than an hour because then you get to. Then it's like, oh, man. Then it's like if I'm knocked out for like two, three hours, then it's going to be a bitch to go to sleep at night. Exactly. That's my thing. Yeah, yeah. Because if an hour, I can still get to sleep when it's time to go to sleep. But no, if you take a, no, you're up, you're out of.

And I do meditate. I wake up and I meditate. And I'm a serious meditator. I meditate for an hour in the morning. I know I have to work my way up to it, but I meditate for an hour. And I don't turn my phone on until after I've meditated. Okay. So, because I have a theory of I have to check in with myself before I check in with the world.

I love that. Yeah. So I do that. And I've now started to meditate for like 10, sometimes 15 minutes before bed. Okay. That helps me to fall asleep. So the meditation thing has been, like, really a game changer. Oh, man, you got to put me on.

Because I don't think I've ever really truly meditated. I don't think I've ever known how. I get it. And I think a lot of people think that there's a way to do it. The only thing I do is, like, like, seriously, this is, like, how I meditate. Like, I just, like, get up and just let just do this. And I'm here for, like, an hour. And I don't move.

Yeah, just breathe. And let your mind go wherever. Let my mind go wherever. And the truth is, sometimes. I was like, like, if you come up for me, like, it's like your name, sort of like, you, your face are coming to me. I'll just sort of like, I'll hold that. And then when I come out of it, I'll text you and say, yo, Scott, like, you came up for me in my meditation, just checking on you seeing how you doing. And 90% of the time, the person will say, oh, my God, I was just thinking about you yesterday.

Oh, wow. That's happened to me about 20 times. Wow. For someone will come up for me and they'll go, I was just talking about you. Or I was just thinking about reaching out to you. And what it says to me is we are, really are all connected. And so it's just a matter of are we willing to tap in and check in with ourselves? Because the truest gift we can give ourselves is silence.

And a lot of, and the world is not designed for that. And I look, I play music a lot at my house. I'm sure you have it on all the time. Like watching things, you know, even reading because sometimes be a distraction. But we kind of are just alone with our thoughts. It can be scary. It can be intimidating. It can be worrisome.

But the truth is, whoever comes up for us, whatever thought comes up, whatever keeps repeating itself, it's sort of like, huh, okay, I need to pay attention to this. This is something that's like gnawing at me for whatever reason. Nothing we do sometimes. Like, you know, because you don't have to text the person that comes up for you, but you just kind of go, that person came up for me. I'm wondering what that is. And so I think meditation is really, it even helps me to throw with story. Story ideas come to me. And it's just, it's a game changer.

So I do, also, it don't have to be an hour. You can do it for five minutes. Do it for two minutes. Just being still. being still and quiet. And also, the room doesn't have to be quiet. I can meditate here. Y'all can be talking to each other.

It is also about rising above chaos rather than falling victim to it. Right. Because the world is constantly trying to rattle you. Yeah. Which is a distraction from whatever it is your purpose is on this planet. So, like, I always use an example of like, there's an explosion over there. the instinct is to run or be scared. Sometimes the instinct could be, let me just get still, make sure I'm not in any danger,

but me running around and being scared is not going to like take away from what just happened. Right. So I think for me it's about how am I always finding stillness in a busy world? How am I find quiet in a loud, you know, universe? Because it's always going to be loud. It's always going to be busy. The world is always going to be crazy. Like our world is crazy right now.

Yeah. But we can't necessarily do anything to fix that overnight. Yeah. So we can be aware. We can be knowledgeable. But I'm not a believer in us being pushed off our square. And I think you kind of have the energy too. It's like, y'all can do what you want to do.

I'm going to be focused here and do what I'm put here to do. Yeah. Because people constantly want to stop you from completing your mission. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that people are afraid to even embark on theirs. You know, I actually just did this interview when I was, I was talking about how like the level of bravery in I don't give a fuckness has to be at its peak. Yeah. You know what I'm too? Like it's like you really, you really can't ever truly give a flying fuck. You just cook. Yeah.

You know? And let the chips fall where they may and just fucking do your thing. Because I remember I remember you did. This was a few years back. Am I even doing a pandemic? You did a documentary or was a docu-series. Documentary. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I remember watching that. I thought it was really good. Thank you. Yeah. And obviously there's with any artist that makes a real dent, which you did, there's always going to be conversation about that artist. Sometimes it veers away from the work. And sometimes it's sort of like, okay, who is he the person?

Or what is this? or what happened here? Why do you go there? This and that. And I really appreciated you telling your story. And there is an element of you do count on your audience to want to be with you and to understand you. But there are certain times where you were like, I don't understand myself.

Like, I'm trying to figure this out. And you guys want answers from me or you want something in particular from me. It's something that reminds you of what you got from me at first because it came to you in your life at a particular time. And I'm curious. if you've always had that energy of like, yo, I can't worry about what everybody's thinking or talking about? Or is it something you felt like you had to grow into? Well, when I first started, so specifically the first album, right?

When I started working on that, I was so caught up in the wonder of being able to make the album. And I just wanted to make something that I thought was cool. So the process of that year and a half was very exciting. But three days or two days before the album came out, I got nervous. I was like, oh shit. About to do this. Oh shit, what I do? Pursuit of Happiness is so fucking weird, man.

That's one of my favorite songs at all time. I think of a fucking hate this song. That's one of my favorite songs of all time. I know, right? We are repeat. I mean, I loved it, but I knew at that time. You know what I mean? It's like 2009, like the biggest rapper in the game at that time was like Lil Wayne.

And like, you know, like hip hop like street rap was just like everywhere. It was no, you had the Kanye, you had Perel, you had Andre 2000. But that was it in the mainstream. Everything else was just hood shit, right? Yeah. And then here I come like, hey guys. Mm-hmm. You know?

And two days before the album came out, I just got nervous. I was just like, what the fuck was I thinking? like you know but then i woke up the day the album came out and i was like whatever happens i know that this shit is dope that's what so that's always what matters i can go to sleep at night knowing that this shit is dope yeah you know hell yeah and i just was like scott you always trusted in yourself like you always believed in yourself like just believe and trust and trust that you fucking did a phenomenal job on this album. Yes.

And people are going to see that. Oh, that's good. So I just kind of thought that and then let it happen. And then that shit blew up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, that's hard. Yeah, hell yeah. That's hard.

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Peace. Okay, you're a writer, I'm a writer. Yeah. And I thought it could be cool because I've been wanting to work with you. I know. We've got to figure it out. I think you're going to cast me. He may try to cast me.

No, no, no. We're going to figure it out today. Okay. Right now, we're going to come up with an idea, a script, right? And me and you are in this movie. We'll decide are we brother or sister. Are we cousins? Are we co-workers?

Are we just friends? Like, you're a cop, I'm a cop, and detectives. I love the idea of us like we used to date until I finally came out to you. Okay. That's a great comedy. That's a great comedy. You're like, what? You're gay.

Everyone's like, man, you ain't known? No, at first I'm like, First I'm like, shut the fuck. I don't believe you. I was like, shit to. Yeah, I'm good too. I'm like, you know, I didn't, I don't want to assume. I mean, that's some shit.

We could totally, that's the funny thing about us. Like, we could either be best friends. We could have used to date it. We could have been like siblings. You and I definitely feel like Kendri's spirits for sure. But what do you, all right, so, all right. Let's decide one. I love that we ran into each other at their art show.

You didn't even know who the guy was. I was like, do you know the art? You're like, nah. This is the deal. Like, when I see your ass, I'm like, Scott, what is happening? But we always vibe. I'm trying to be adventurous. I'm trying to do normal things.

I love it. But I definitely thought you were more like too, dude. I was like, do you know this guy? Like, no, I don't know. I was like Jeffrey Deich, he came to my studio and he invited me to this show. Classic. That's how it goes. It was really an invite from him and I was coming to just see his studio because I'm

trying to have my work there one day. Oh, right. That's why you were telling me. Also like a artist, visual artist. Yeah, but I got cool with coaching the artist. Right. Nice. Yeah.

Coach is my friend. That's how I was there. Yeah, me and him are my homies now. Okay. Isn't you great? Yeah, he's amazing. He's amazing. I'm glad.

So that's how that happens. We like sometimes find ourselves in the same spaces. That's always a good sign. We do run into each other. That's, but it's a good sign because I always take it not to be too woo-woo, but I do take that as like the universe, a higher power saying something to me. I don't take it lightly. And I think we've always just wanted to stay in touch.

And it's just such a really good vibe. Yeah. Like even when I got cool with Etienne and I saw that you guys were cool. I was like, man. And so it's always a good, it's a good feeling when you see that, oh, man, so this is good people who know other good people. And it's like they attract other good people and like. Durs of a feather. You know what I'm saying?

We look like we all should hang out together. It's true. I mean, well, that's the movie right there. Yes. Me, you and Etienne. Okay. First of all, yes. He's like, he's going to be like, when are we doing it?

Yeah. Like we, so the goal was to come up. The goal is to come up with an idea today that is so fucking good, we make it. Oh. Okay. I am kind of, I like the idea that we used to date. That's funny. Yes, I love that.

Because that could be like, that could be like what sets the movie off. Yeah. Like it happened in the first five, ten minutes. Right. Like the whole thing jumps, the jump starts the whole story. Also, I just love that you like don't know that I'm gay. Yeah.

The signs are there. I know. It's like, it's like, bro, what? And you're just like, what? I don't know. It's like your hair braided like this. I don't care. We can share clothes.

Like, I love that. That's been amazing. I've never been able to do that with girls. Like, it's different, you know. But you're mad at me because I should have known and I didn't know. Yeah, I'm like kind of a little way. It's kind of like that thing like where it's like, you don't know me. You've been with me for so long.

You don't know me. You don't even understand me. You don't get me. So you still have that girlfriend there. So I'm just like, no, you just don't fucking know me. But this is who I am now. And I'm like, what do you mean? I've known you for the past fucking 10 years.

We've been eight for five years. It's weird. And also, you know, we followed love with the same girl. Okay. Okay. That happens. Okay. Because she's by.

And it's like, what's up? Which one? This is, oh, man, hold on, wait. This is how I roll. We have to do. This is such a juicy. This is actually solid. This is actually solid.

This is fucking juicy. Okay. So we used to date the start of the movie. You sit me down. You say you have to break up. And I'm like, what do you mean? This is great. Everything's going good.

What do you mean you want to break up? He's like, it's not you. It's me. And I'm like, oh, yes. What's not you? It's me. what the fuck you're going to hit me with that classic fucking mind. He's like, no, you don't fucking understand.

You don't get it. Don't get it. It really is me. You'll get it in a second. You'll get it in a minute. You either think I'm going to propose or break up with you and then I come out. Yeah. You're like, I'm gay.

Everybody's like, duh, we knew she was gay. And then I'm just like, what? She's like, she got really religious parents. Like, this is the thing. You know, it's like, that's a funny, like, open and scene. You know, the best thing ever is like, you know, a social network that opening with the two with them. It could be at a, it could be, we could have a dinner. You can take me out the dinner.

Take out the dinner. And I'm thinking you're about to tell me about the new job. Yeah, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're going to be in a, you're like, like, something, right? You definitely have the wrong idea about what I was going to say to you. Like, that is for sure. Like, your friends are like, what you think are going to happen? She's going to break up with you.

Yeah, we got to saw all that. We got to sell all the leading up. So the movie starts with us getting ready for the date, right? So you see if you, like, person's up me. He's like, she's like, oh, she's going to like this. And then you just like broke him around like, fuck, I got to do this. It's like, you're not a dude. How does he not know?

Like, what? Jesus. Oh, my God. It's so good. That's great. That's great. But what is the story? So that jumps off us into just us

and ended up falling in love with the same woman. Yeah, we fought for the same girl. But where do we, all right, where do you meet the girl and where do I meet the girl? Or you do a thing where it's a year later and like we're still friends. Right. And then you, you introduce me to your girl. I like the fact that she's your girl. girl, right?

Like, she's like, I want you to be my girlfriend. And I'm like, okay, she's cool. You steal her from me. Not steal. Let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's. I borrow. I, um, I borrow all for a night or two. I've been accused.

Look, no, uh, we just, there's a chemistry. There's a vibe, you know, and you're like, oh. Well, or you're like, great. My ex and my girl getting along. This is amazing. We all three start hanging out. It's vibes. You know.

And then she's like, she's like, you're like, She identifies as vibe, but it's no big. Like, okay, you know, and then there's vibes there. And I'm like, oh. But does she know that me and you used to date? I think she does. Really? I do.

Because it could be cool to be, we're keeping it a secret. We don't tell, we don't say that. Yeah. That's cool. It could be like a kind of, because I don't know what's the reason of keeping in a secret. Like, like, other than just being like. Do we like, what do we get out of the? Him just being insecure about like, man, I just don't like.

I do think it's kind of cool if she, because it's all like about her character. right? Because it's like, is she a cool person? But there's something fun about like, can you believe we used to date each other? That's hilarious. You know, oh my God, so silly. That's a good scene, too. Yeah, she's like, you guys, like, you guys, like, you guys, you guys, you guys, like, you guys, like, I know, it's like, he didn't know I was gay. And she's like, what do you mean you know she was good? I know, yeah, she's like, your gaitar is horrible. It's like, I know, what's going on? What's going on? My gator is off, all right? Okay. And maybe, or maybe this is the other things, like, is this a thing that keeps happening. And you keep

to meet the girls and the girls that are kind of like coming over here. You're like, what the hell what's going on you know what I mean but that's the thing too it's like it's we got to figure out what is the thing that because you don't want that to always they're always like competing over a girl but that is funny but the question the competition side of it is the joke that is kind of funny like because it's like the girl that's why I feel like the girl shouldn't know that we know each other at first that's interesting the girl is kind of like I'm a free bird I can't be held down. You know them type of women, right?

Yes, I do. Okay, his shit's coming out. You know those type of women. You know those type of women. Uh-huh. Yeah, I call them butterflies. You okay? You don't want to be held down.

They don't. And, you know, she's hanging out with me, but it's magic. And then she's hanging out with you, and it's magic. But then something happens where we find out that we're both talking, like, we hang out one day, and then I'm like, so what's going on in your life? You're like, y'all, I think I met some girl. I'm like, oh, that's cute. They don't.

They're like, and then you're telling me about this girl, and he's like, yo, so tell me about yours. And I'm like, yo, she's fired. Okay. And then somebody gets to the part where it's like, yo, show me a picture. And you show me a picture. And you show me a picture of Kay Lottie on our mom. It's like, God dang it.

Like, the girl with tattoos? Ah, damn. That's funny. She's like, I like you both. To me, the hurt thing that should be like, can we do this? Like, can I date both of y'all? Yeah. That, to me, is an interesting thing.

That's the story. Yeah, and we're, and I'm kind of like, what I think is like, you kind of flip it where I say, no, no, I'm more traditional. You're like, I mean, I'm gay. I'm down. You know, and I'm going like, you are. I'm like, I don't want to share my girl with you. And you're like, well, she's my girl too.

Like, hold on, what? And that could be kind of interesting. It's like, because, you know, we live in a world of society. where monogamy is being challenged. What does that look like for us as a society? You know, what will marriage and relationships and friendships look and feel like? And we are a part of an interesting generation

where those things are starting to bend. And also that's what there's such friction right now in a society because you have the people that want to move toward the future and people that are committed to staying in the past and actually bringing things back the way they used to be. And so what's fascinating is you have this woman who was between us who's like,

what does it matter if I date both y'all? Why is that wrong? Says who. I mean, I'm being honest. Right. I admit that I'm kicking it with him and I admit that I'm kicking it with her. And if she finds out, then y'all used to date, like we did, you know. Oh, this is perfect.

Great. Cool. You know? So we can all this. We can all buy. And then me and you were kind of like, no, we don't want to do the threesome shit. Because we've already dated, right? I know.

We've already experienced insurance. That's not happening. We're just like, look, we just did this for 10 years. I know. we're done with that we're done with each other we wanted to close that book i know and i also love are we both like like love bombing the fuck out of her to like get her to pick one of us yeah that's what i'm saying that's what i think that that's the movie because it's like trying to get her to try to show our effect because one of us we both have the same feeling we need her to choose up

me and you are neither one of us are into this she date you she date me bullshit right right we want to be chose right so like the the movie is us trying to get her to her to court one of us exclusively. Correct. So it's about trying to show like affection and like trips and gifts and things like this. And like you understand her a different way because you're a woman and I'm a dude and I'm like, you know what I mean? But also it's like she kind of likes both, you know, because one of my favorite movies, one of my,

it's in top ten is my best friend's wedding. And you do have Julia Roberts who is the, you know, the queen of the screen and then you have Cameron Diaz, who was a newbie in that movie, and then you have Daroni, who was the guy in between them, which is also classic, like, these two women, but they're not fighting over him, but one is getting married to him, one is his best friend. And what I do think is interesting is we keep saying, no, you need me. Like, no, you need me. And the truth is, I need both of you. Yeah. Like, we both offer something that is different. And also, there's something to be examined because I think what sometimes men assume a woman needs isn't always the thing that's the most

priority for her. And sometimes as women, we know, we know, oh, I know what you need. And it's like, yeah, but just because we're both women, doesn't mean we're the same. So I think like what I need, another woman might not. But I do think there's this idea, let's just keep it a buck. Like sometimes dudes be thinking, your dick can keep a woman at home. And it's like, no, it's like women know how to get into your woman's head, which is a lot more impactful than entering her body. We definitely should play with that.

For sure. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like, but then also women know what another woman likes. And so it's like we can get her head and we can touch our body in a way that you may not know how to. And so sometimes it can like throw it off now. It's like, but there's certain things that like a guy can bring a certain energy or certain like even pharmones that like a woman sort of can't. You know?

And so it's like because, you know, women have very interesting relations with their fathers, which impacts the kind of guys they date. Yep. You know, and then I have a very interesting relationship with my mother, which definitely impacts the kind of. of women I chase. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? If you got a mother who's a little crazy, that means you're going to be drawn to crazy women.

That's just sort of what it is. Yeah, yeah. And so to me, there's so many interesting things to play with, you know, in terms of that. And also, why are we both drawn to the same woman?

What is it about her that we love so much? That we think it's like, I need this woman to complete me or I need this world. I need to win. Because sometimes it's about, it is about competition. Because say what one of us does kind of like, she chooses one of us.

And it's like there's something missing. Because you have to have that, that thing in the movie too, where it's like, okay, I'm over here. Another person that, quote, unquote, loses is sort of like, huh, okay, so do we, are we still friends? Do we kick it? Like, or I start dating somebody new and it's like kind of boring.

It really asks you, like, do you, because can one person can fulfill all of your needs? Some people believe it can't. Some people are like, I'm monogamy all day. And some folks are like, I want to be open. I want to be poly, you know, whatever it may be. But the truth is, we have to respect and validate every single choice because they're all valid. You know what I mean? You can't like downplay one way, you know, or like, or like celebrate another way. It's about how do you honor all these different modes of being in a

relationship? Man, this movie has to be made. Yo, this movie, this is a great. This is kind of like I'm here for it. Like, I would totally fucking do this. This is being hilarious, figuring out who the girl is. And also was both of having like the extra friend characters, you know, Sam J going to wind up in there somewhere. Yeah, we got to put all the homies. We got to put all the homies. Everybody got it. It's got to be like.

That's cool. Yeah, that's a great idea. I thought of this idea. I was like, look, because we were just running through questions. I was like, we were going through questions. And I was like, you know what I want to do with Lena? I want to just make up a fucking like a treatment. Yeah, this is what I'm going to get Linda.

I'm going to get her on the podcast. We're going to pitch this way. It's going to be archived. And it's going to be archived. So it's going to. We're going to put it out. She can't back out. Your fans are going to be like, we want it.

You know what I'm saying? Like, stop bullshitting. Yes. And get the movie made. You're damn right. He knows how to start some shit. He said, look, I got blew up off my space. I know how to do this.

I'm a fucking master. Okay. I put this shit out and then motherfuckers want it. Okay? No, I'm here for it. Me and you're the movie together. You know, I talk about my favorite movies in a Galactica. I love that shit.

That's my shit. I'd be running it back. I don't know what it is. I just love, like, that, like, I love animation. and I love what y'all did. Y'all had the people too. You got the Spider-Man motherfuckers. And it was just like, get into this animated like black robcom.

That's just like so real and funny. And the music is hard. Wait to you see Slime. Now, slime is my new animated movie. Oh, okay. That we're producing. Jim Brackson is the director and he created the idea in the story.

Oh, okay. And he's a really amazing artist and creative. And he's a young cat in his 20s from Cleveland. it's a really interesting it's an animated horror movie and it stars Willow

me Lekeith John Boyega Winston Duke John Cho Anna Sawai Tiana Taylor That's my girl

Tiana did a voice for Anagalactica too Yeah yeah yeah yeah so we brought her back And it's just It's dope like me and my dude Dodd were scoring it and also doing the soundtrack Yo, the soundtrack for the Galactic goes hard.

That song, Can't Shaker, one of my favorite joints. Fuck with it. Yeah. I'm telling you, this is hard. I've never heard about an animated horror movie before. Let's sound crazy. I don't think I've seen that. It's a new twist.

That's hard. Yeah. Because, you know, like, you know, a lot of people over the years, they know that I'm a really big horror fan. Okay. You know? So for me, it's just like what we were talking about, right? Like, I can't do Anagalactic Part 2. I know.

You know what I want to do something. I want to keep playing in the animation space. When does it come out? This is next year. Next year. Okay. I'm ready. I'm like that.

Any screen or anything you got holl at me. Yeah, you got it full up. That's dope. I love it. You like making movies and stuff now. Yeah, man. It's, it's.

I feel like you've always been like, you know, dipping your toe in it and like step in your ass. Exactly. You know, from the greatest TV show that like, you know, people, it was ahead of his time, how to make it in America. Yeah. Like ahead of his time, I was into it like as such a real way. And I think that was really like the beginning of you letting people know that you were

a musician. Yeah, man. And I think ever since then, I've, you know, I've had a really great career as an actor and I've been able to do some amazing things. And now I think this next chapter is just me kind of telling my own stories. And I just feel like I needed to take the same approach that I took with my music where I went to every major label. and nobody would sign me, I said,

instead of getting discouraged, I said, okay, I'm going to make myself hot. Come on. Come on. Come on. And I made my mixtape, and the rest is history. Wow.

So that's kind of like. What was the, because you got signed. After my mixtape. Right. But here's my question. I'm not being messy. But like when you were going around to the labels,

and they were like, oh, not quite. After the mixtape came out, was there one of those labels that you had gone to that circled back? And was any of, okay. Oh, so was it any like the same people? Yeah. It was the same people. Wow.

So how were those, so was that, you know, because you can't be too much of an asshole, but you got to also. I entertained it. Yes, of course. Yeah. You have to entertain those conversations, but it has to feel crazy. Yeah. To be talking to people that just told you know, then all of a sudden they're like, hey, what's up? But it's like, it's like, I get it.

The music that I went out shopping was not the music that I was creating with Dr. Genius, right? Okay. Or playing Pat, right? This is music that I was creating with my dude, Jers, and his partner. And they were kind of like producing and guiding me on, like, creatively on like what beats I should use and things like that. And I would work with Jers and them. And then I would leave, come home and then work with Dot and then just be creative and do all the things that I want to do. Right.

And that The songs that I did with yours Weren't the songs that I loved In the first place They weren't like The songs I thought were the best They were good I mean they were good for what it was

I mean it showed that I had talent Right but they weren't like It wasn't like Songs that you heard and you were like Oh man this guy could be an artist For like 10, 15 years right So when they didn't sign me off of that music That they heard

Like I got it so by the time by the time the mix tape came out and I made myself hot and they came back around I was like now I got music that I really can stand behind that I love that's more my vibe

that's more of my energy that represents me as a whole I got you and I get it I get why y'all didn't want to fuck with me the music it wasn't this it's not like I went to every major label with a kid named Cuddy

okay okay okay okay I didn't have and I didn't have any of the smashes yet. I hear you. I hear you. So like I understood it and I was just kind of like, okay, I'm just see what, I'm going just think about it and go with the feeling because that's how I always make all my big decisions is it's not here. It's the gut feeling what feels right.

For sure. And Universal Motown felt right at the time, you know. And also because Sylvia Rohn. Yeah. Black Queen. Yeah, the Goat. You know what I mean? A DET Lifetime Achievement Award.

Yeah. And shotted me out in her speech. Yes. Like, man, like I texted her. I was like, y'all, I just saw you shouted me out. She was like, we love you. Blubba. I was like, oh, man.

That's big. Like, because it's crazy, man. Like, she really, she was saying shit about me back then that I didn't even understand. Wow. Like, she foresaw, like, where I'm at right now. now she saw all that shit. Whoa. She knew what time it was.

I didn't see that shit. Wow. But Sylvia Rhone, she saw everything. A black woman. You know what I mean? And she felt like the ultimate auntie. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I could talk to her about anything.

And like in 2011 is when she left Motown. Right? And I had to either go to Republic or death jam. Right? And I didn't want to be a death jam. So I was like, okay, I guess I don't. go to Republic. But Republic was this label that I had met with before when we were, after the mixtape and we were meeting with labels, like I met up with them and I walked out of that

meeting and I was like, man, out of all the labels, that's the one I know for sure I don't want to sign to. Oh, wow. And I ended up signing to him. Because your gut told you to do that shit? I was the only choice because I was still, I was signed to the universal umbrella. So I was just like, you're going to go here or go there. I hear you. Right. I didn't lose my deal. I got it. You got to go to one of these places. I get what you're saying. And I had my reasons for not wanting to be up death down.

And so Republic was the only situation left. Wow. But over the years, we ended up having a great relationship. I've been able to do whatever the fuck I want. Like you hear artists talk about the label won't release my music. The label won't do this. We heard of a lot. These motherfuckers let me do whatever the fuck I want.

I'm talking about they would not hear any music until it was finished, mixed and master. Whoa. You know how crazy it is? You know how crazy it is for a label not to hear what you're working on and just give you millions of dollars to make it and not hear what you're doing? Damn. Like, and so I had that freedom. That's crazy.

So like though it wasn't the one that I wanted to be at and I went to them reluctantly at first, over the years they proved that they understood the Kid Cuddy business like that, okay, we're going to let him create and just let him explore and get behind him and release whatever he wants to release. And it's been like that until my last album free, my, that I dropped last year, same deal. I was like, I'm doing a pop album. And they were like, okay. Wow.

And they didn't hear it until the shit was finished, you know, and they were blown a fucking way. I love that. And that's the thing. It's like, you know, like I said, it, wasn't what I wanted at first. It wasn't where I wanted to be. But over the years, I will say, there was things that every artist has issues with their label, man. Like, there's always some bullshit. It's always some fuck shit. Oh, yeah. But like, when I take a step back and I looked at it in

hindsight, the big picture, like, I'm very thankful that I had that opportunity to work with them as long as I did because they gave me creative freedom. I did not ever have a problem we're releasing any music. And I know that's a problem for a lot of artists. It is. It is. Yeah. No, that's a phenomenal story. I didn't realize you had so much freedom, but I think it also speaks to the breadth of your musical, your music career. Because it is, it has been a journey, you know, with you and one that all the fans who've been there from day one have been on with you. And I think to me, that's my favorite thing when an artist does take risks and does take chances and does do crazy things. Like I remember when Common came out with the experimental album, like Andre, you know, coming out with his sort of saying, like I was doing it like instrumental now.

And for a lot of people, it can feel jarring. It can go like, what? Like, what's happening? Yeah. But the truth is, I think getting a chance to kind of witness some of you artists up close, what I see is you enter into a new phase of your life. And then there's things that you're listening to that you want to listen to that you want to discover.

And so now that you take, okay, so now I want to do this. And the people that have been following you don't see that. They don't know what you're going through or what you're experiencing or what you're living through. All they get is the music. and they're like, oh, this is new, and you're right. It's like, I think those fans that are evolving in their own lives or just committed to your evolution can roll with you.

And then some people are kind of like, well, I really prefer this album. I still am stuck over here. And that's okay too. Absolutely. Because those albums always be there and they can go back. For sure. You know what I'm saying? But I also think it's a reflection of where they are in their lives.

Where they're like, I'm still here. And when you're ready, then they can get up to a free where it's complete total completion of happiness. Yeah. And then when they're in that place in their life, then they're going to, because I have people come up to me all the time, like,

that are like, man, I didn't understand this album until I went through it five years later and I revisited it and all made sense. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes.

And I'm like, see, that's, you're like, the answers are there whenever you're ready. You know what I'm saying? Whenever you're ready, you're like, it's here for you. I'm leaving the breadcrow.

I'm leaving the breadcrow. I'm giving it to you. The answers are, are written in the scroll. You know what I'm saying? Your grace, your grace, the actors are written in the scroll. It's like, okay, okay, Buddha.

Okay. No, it's real. When you think back all the prints, all his catalog, you can hit any of those I was going to go, oh, okay, whoa. Because it is a bit like this jigsaw puzzle of like, okay, he was here then,

this time, this era, this time, and okay, he was collaborating with this person. But isn't that exciting? It is exciting. It is cool. To see, like, an artist, they're saying they're announcing an album, right? And he's like, ooh, what's this shit kind of song? Yeah, like, what's this going to be?

You never know. You know, you're one of the ones where we don't know what's happening. We don't know. We're going to be surprised. And he's got to go on a journey. Yeah, yeah. I want to talk about Helmand grad. Yes, please.

You know, like, tell me like. I got it on my. Yeah, I love that. I love that. You know how we do. Like, why was it so important to start your own production company? Oh, man. I think, well, you know, here's an interesting thing.

Some of it was like just logistics. When you have your own TV show, you know, you have a production. They can say like, do you want a production company? Do you want your production company to be the N-Carter? You're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I would. I'd like that. And then it kind of blossoms into other things like beyond the shy, but Queen and Slim and 20s and Boomerang and all the end, 1001, you know, and 40-year-old version and dear white people. And so things that I haven't written or directed, but I'm a producer on.

You know, Hillman Grab really, it became a bit of a brand, which was a. about a certain taste level, a certain aesthetic. And again, you talk about what to expect. When like if Lena Waith comes out with something, you're like, okay, what this is about to be. Right. What we're going, what we're getting into now? But your name has that.

And I'm so grateful. When you're, when you see your shit a part of something, you're like, I'm telling you, you know, like you, you have that. You know what I appreciate that. That means a lot coming from you. Like people that do this shit for real. The real ones honor you. I receive that.

You know what I mean? especially like if I see your name or anything, I'm tuning in. That means the world. You know what I mean? So you've done a really good job with setting this pedigree. You know what I mean? Thank you. We're doing all across all your projects.

Thank you. And it's so interesting looking around this set, this space that we're in. I see the VHSs. I see the CDs. I see the posters. This is how we develop our taste. Yeah. This is, this is, you know, and like if I, like, there's so, please,

Moonwalker and like growing up watching this and now. Oh, yeah. Come on. They were saying, what are you obsessed with as a kid? Moonwalker, the craziest movie that ever lived. Yes, Michael Jackson. The greatest film ever made in my life. Michael Jackson, Joe Pesci.

Come on. Come on. Come on. With the spiders, you see this logo here. You know, it's just like, but that is something that, because it's a shared reference that we have, that when you say Moonwalker, and somebody go, oh, you're like, okay, we're part of the same gang, you know. And that kind of forms us.

It shapes us. makes us go. What weird thing do we want to do? But all of the, but then also that plus jungle fever, plus like full house. Like these weird crazy reference points sort of create. Family matters. Family matters, you know, saying small wonder, little robot girl, you know, just all of it, you know, watching Free Willy. Like these are there so many.

But hold on though. What about the song from Free Willy, the Michael Jackson song? The MJ, always be there. Come on. Oh, man, that used to be my shit. Me and my boy did this. Come on. We used to be in the backyard, like, jamming that shit.

When that whale jumped over him, like, come on, man. Let me tell you something. Do you know that remake in that movie now? Okay, I'm nervous about that. Because it's like, are they going to remake the moment? Because that moment was iconic. You can't beat that moment. I don't even know they made that happen.

Don't even know I don't want to think about it. Okay. What was that? I don't know. There's this movie magic and we're going to let it be. Like, I remember battery's not included. Like, we just had like really crazy movies. And so that is how like Hillman Grad, like, you know, my taste is formed where you get like dear white people or this new play I'm producing in Baltimore called Bocking. I read about the gentleman. Her name is Preston and we up August 14th and we're going to September 6th. And so it's like me reading that makes me go, okay, I like this. You know, 1,001, talking about Tiana Taylor, like her getting a chance to be. And we're up August 14th and we're going to September 6th. And so it's like me reading that makes me. I like, I'm going to be. And so it. I'm going. I'm going and something that gave her a chance to show all her colors and be a dramatic actress in a way we hadn't seen before. Dear white people really jumped out at me when I first was sitting with Justin Simeon, I was like, oh, this is cool.

So it's like, and there's the things I do with the Queen and Slim and the Shy and things like that. But your taste level is based on the things that you're watching and you're taking in and you're inspired by. And so that's really, to me, what Hillman grad is a reflection of, is all the things that I watched and looked at and lived. listen to so that way when I get a script or when I see something, people always ask me, like, what makes you want to say yes to something? And I understand that question because I think people

like, can you say yes to my project? Can you come on board with my thing? And the truth is, it is, it's about does it make me feel that thing of, oh, I think this will have an impact on someone sitting in their mother's living room, that they'll watch that and that will inform their taste. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's like, because the things that we watched that we took in, are we're products of all the things that we've looked at and obsessed over and watched over the years. And so what I'm putting out there into the world, it's like everything doesn't have to be perfect. I'm not a perfectionist. I don't believe in that shit. But I'm a person that is I'm guttural. You know, I'm spirit-led. And so all the things I've done, I've been a part of,

I can stand by. And so it has been like 20-year career of me writing things, producing things, being involved in things, amplifying things. And so for you to say that, like, yo, we see you we respect you. This means a great deal because I consider you to be one of those artists that you're a part of that. Like I used to listen to pursue the happiness a ton. And I'm not alone in that during low points in my life. And so I was so interesting, I think because people call you an emo rapper. I think people associate your music with being like a low mood or something. I don't know like what that is. So I'm working on the sketch comedy show, right? Okay. Of course you are. And I'm doing something where I want to kind of play up on that. Oh, I know because you're the original emo rapper. The sad, the sad emo, Cody.

That's your brain. It was like, you're happier now. You're happy now. But it's funny to got to play up on it. Like, I'll have to lead into that. Like, go to a grocery store and then like, I'm trying to go get like my favorite soda. And then there's like none left. And I'm just like.

And I see somebody take the last one and walk out. And I'm just like, wow a minute. You kick out of eat. Yeah. Oh, man. Are you a dude? You're doing okay? So everything all right?

The music's pretty, pretty doubter type vibes, right? I'm doing great, man. I'm actually having a good day today. You sure? Can't tell. If you need some help, I got somebody you can talk to. You know what? I'm tired of the bullshit.

See, now you're, that's it. Now you're showing you're really upset. Yeah, that's coming out. That's coming out. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting thing. It's like you do put on Cuddy if you're like having a blue moment. But people, I think now with this podcast,

especially with this podcast. People are seeing your more... People are seeing the energy. Yeah, like you're totally upbeat. Even in the middle of all my... Your shit. My darkest moments. It wasn't like that every day

and in days when it wasn't like that, I was happy to be blessed to be doing what I dream. You know what I'm saying? So like I was... You're not the eore of rappers, but there's a level of like... Exactly.

Your music does speak to just being super emotional, which I always thought about, oh yeah, he is an emo rapper. That is interesting. But that's what I think is, because you kind of evolved out of that into a new space. And so it is almost like, oh, how do I, like, how do I digest him in this new era of his life?

But now my new shit is reflection. Yes. Oh, I'm big on that. And I love that. That actually grows. That speaks to me, yeah. Well, because for years, I was like, no, I have to write what I'm feeling right now. It has to be true to what I'm feeling right now.

That's interesting. I feel that. And, like, now I'm like, okay, I'm happy, but. Nick has already heard me rap about being happy. They heard me make a whole album about my wife. They know I'm happy. They know I'm in a good place. They've known this for the past seven years.

Do your fans, your hardcore fans, are they able to embrace that? I believe that it's a divide. I believe there's some, the majority of fans are on for the ride. But I think some are like not ready. Yeah, they're like, what is this shit? What the fuck? Yeah, they're like, what's this? What is this shit?

What are you doing? Cuddy is washed. Oh, it's so much shit they say. These kids are so... Are you watching the music recap? These kids are so mean. I know. They will say whatever.

They be like, you are washed, bro. That was horrible. What are you doing? And Cuddy, listening to Cuddy in 2026? What? No, you got to... I see all this shit. Okay, see, you watch it too.

You watch it too. It's hard to miss. No. True. It should be loud. I will say this tour that I did last, this tour that I just finished, right? Yes. I was on, I was on stage at a sold-out Master's Square Garden show, right?

And it was, I came out, I just did the first song. And I told myself, before I started the second song, I was like, to stand here, bro. Just stand here and look around, bro. Please, I'm with that. So I stood there, and I looked around. I looked around. Mm-hmm. And this was in the middle of tour.

So all of them shows before, I wasn't soaking it up. I was just coming out doing the thing, killing it, and then leaving, right? But I was at Master Square Garden. I was like, this is your first time performing here? Soaked that shit up. And I was looking around and you see kids everywhere, people everywhere. And in my head, I was like, yo, why do you ever think that people don't want to hear you, that people don't fuck with you anymore? Look at all these people.

Come on. They are here for you. Yes, bro. Yes. Look at they cheering. It's been two minutes. They still cheering. Come on.

And you ain't said shit. You've been standing here. Woo. That don't surprise me at all. Like, they love you, bro. Don't ever let some shit that you've seen in the comments on IG or on Twitter for some troll. Come on. Make you feel otherwise.

You got love in this life. That's right. People care about you more than just the music. They care about Scott. Mascady. That's right. You know what I mean? And I had to have that moment. And I and I'm like this tour was it was wow for me it it rejuvenated my whole existence. Like I started working on my putting together my next album and all these things like it was it was crazy man because it was like when you I haven't toured since 22. That's what I'm going to say that's like really monumental.

I think the people probably needed that too to see you to like yeah. Yeah. And when you spend so when when you spend so little time, like, out there and you don't see it as often, you can go in your head and just, all you have is the Internet, and you just think that this is what the truth is or whatever. This is going on in the world. But then you put a tour together, and you go out and you see your putting butts in seats, and a lot of people can't put butts in seats. Say that.

For certain people are canceling their tours. Say it, say it. You know what I mean? Yes. This is a blessing. Nah, yeah. Now, you're like, you're a legacy act. Yeah.

And that's like, that's like, that's what you hope to become. You hope to be that. Because, you know, I'm honestly grateful to be able to witness your journey and to see the evolution. And I, like I said, I'm not surprised that so many people want to come out and see the idea of you going out. And so like, oh, what? Okay. Let me run. You know, because you know it's not the thing that you have to do.

And I think it's something that you want to do. But I also think you're the type of artist that you have to touch your people. Like you must because it is, like I said, it's like I said, it's like, I. I, when I was at a low point or at an emo moment, that's a different kind of connection with an artist. Because there's a level of, you know, with your music, you kind of like, you do sit in it. You sit in your feelings a little bit.

But then that means you just feel so connected to that person. Like, oh, you know what this is like. You know what this feeling is. And I feel like I'm not alone when I'm listening to the work. And I think that's why these people are like, yo, we fuck with you as a human being. Yeah. Because you bring out the humanity and all of us.

Yeah, the vulnerability. Yes, definitely. That's why that's like, that's why you still standing. No, that's real. We can't get too caught up and, you know, the divide is going to come. But it's like you said, as long as we can stand by the work, as long as we are proud of it, then it'll stand the test of time because it outlives us. It'll be here when we're gone.

Definitely. And other generations will discover it. They're right. And every, there's a kid listening discovering day and night right now. Oh, my God. Like, right this moment. I'm jealous. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. imagine. I can't. There's people here in pursuit of happiness right now for the first time. Like, hold on, Kit Cuddy. Who is he? Come on. You know, and that's the exciting thing. It's just going to, it's never ending. Even like you said, even when I'm going, my daughter's kids, her kids, kids, kids, it's going to be forever. It's going to be like, my great, great granddad was Kid Cuddy. And he fucking killed it. He had a podcast with Lena Wade. This episode was fire. Hell yeah. They came with an idea that they ended up making, they came up with it right there.

Like, we make this movie, that's all I'm making even more iconic, because the idea happened right here. The seed was planted. Definitely, definitely. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. No, we lit. We lit.

This week, Big Rex is brought to you by Apple gift card. What's one thing you nerd about that might surprise people? That might surprise people. See, I kind of gave it away already. Like, I put out a documentary about Mary Tyler Moore. Okay. Called Being Mary Tyler Moore, HBO Max. You can check it out right now.

Emmy nominated. Nice. I think people might just be surprised that I was like so obsessed with like the Mary Tyler Moore show and all that kind of stuff. But surprise people that I nerd out about. It's not like gay. They told me to think about it. But I'm like, you know, the tricky thing is about surprise because it really is about

our personas and how people see us. And I'm very proud of my blackness, my queerness, my wholeness, my womanness. So I think so a lot of my reference points are very that, you know, oh, you know what, maybe the fact that I'm a big fan of Stephen Sondheim musicals. Okay. Yeah. And like the way he writes songs and music and Broadway shows, the way he did that, he was like one of the first writers to write songs and musicals that actually moved the plot forward

and actually helped you to understand a character better versus stopping for a song in the middle of the musical and just because it's a musical. Right. So I think people might be a little, they might be surprised about how I nerd out so much about Sondheim and like, but now the secrets out like I'm into Broadway. people know that kind of stuff. Yeah. But yeah, I think I've got to a place now, and you might be like this, too, where people

aren't surprised by my reference points of the craziness because we're just a weird old artist kids. And we're putting ourselves out there in all forms. Yeah. We're not afraid to say I'm into this. We're not singular. Like there's so many different things about us and we've been doing it so long that we've been able to reveal these different sides of us.

us to the world that now people understand what makes us us. You're right. Even for me, it's like I've done so much in music that like nobody is shocked or surprise or something's like off the beat and path. It's like, of course, you expect it. Exactly. You're ready for it. Yeah, yeah.

I think that's interesting thing. If it's surprising then oh well, but yeah, I would say that. Top five most inspiring black entertainers of all time. Oh my goodness. Top five. Okay. So I got some tattooed on me. So Whitney Houston for sure.

Okay. I got Prince on the back. I love it. Black entertainers. So that's interesting thing. Like entertainers. I got to put, I got to put Mike in there, Michael Jackson. Oh, yes.

Janet. Oh, yes. Am I at four now? Janet, Michael, Whitney, of course. Prince. Last one. Donnie Hathaway. I love it.

That's a strong list. Yeah. That's a strong fucking list. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. If you could only keep three shoes in your sneaker collection, what would they be? Wow. That's such a really good one.

Ooh, we. I know. I see you K with these. They, they're gifted. You know, it's always nice to be gifted. Jesus Christ. I would say the black and white taxis, the Jays. You know,

What? The orange ones of these, the jellyfish orange ones of these, those to me felt very timeless, iconic. That's a newer one, but just like, Jesus Christ, you know, for real, to ask, just everything he does. It's just like, oh my goodness. He may get an honorary mission on that, that throw a sixth person in there, because for real is just all consuming, everything he does.

So those, and then, you know, I would throw just Air Force ones in there. Definitely. Those are just classic. If I had those three shoes, I think I survived. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Worst sneaker you've ever bought. Worst sneaker!

You have a worst sneaker you ever bought? That's what I'm trying to think. It's probably going to go back. You don't have to be younger. It's got to be, because I made some mistakes. I bought these Fibu sneakers back in the day. Okay. That were bad.

They were bad. Here's what I will say. This is not in the front to the human, to the player. I think he's lovely. But the Pippins back in the day, No, which ones, though? I know. I think it was like the twos.

It was like they were like white and red, and I tried to pull them off. White and red and they had a little streak like this on the side. Man, I like those, though. To me, I couldn't pull them all. That's why I'm frustrated about them. I just couldn't make it work. Okay. I'll say, I think some of shacks were kind of interesting.

And it would not be the best way again. No shade the shack. Love shack. What about the Grand Hills and Phyllis? I have a peridos in my, like, archival. And I remember with the outline and the hero. Oh, I fuck with those. Those are great.

Those are great. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we do. I might need to have to pick up a pair of them shit. Yeah, you do. Fila. Fila, I know. Send them.

Send them. Send them. Get them resale. Okay. This is a good one. I love this rapid fire session. Go ahead. What's your favorite Chicago pizza spot?

And why is Chicago pizza better than New York? Oh, my God. You try to get the deep dish conversation? Yep. Because I, because it was my idea because I was like, look, I want to get a nice debate going. Oh, my God. Okay, the debate is like, the better debate is like Michael versus Prince. No, it's like Girodano's, which is like an iconic spot in Chicago.

And here's the deal. I like deep dish, but I'm not the biggest tomato fan. So I also like the, we used to get the pizza where it's like squares. You know what I'm saying? Like those big pieces were squared, which is a pretty, we were more regular with that, like, at my crib than a deep dish. The deep dish was like a whole situation. I was like, man, you got to get a knife and fork.

Yeah, yeah. Square pizzas, like, those are just, like, amazing and they were phenomenal. So that's more, even though deep dish, I like the flat square pieces of pizza from Chicago. Okay. Okay. That's my jam. Dead or Alive. What's your dream cast for a movie?

Limited at five people. Okay. Well, I'm going to say Whitney Houston because I just want to see her on screen. Yeah. I'm going to say Angela Bassett. That's my dog. I know we already halfway to wait until his hell cast. Ooh, we.

I'm going to say. Dick Gregory. Okay. Just because he didn't act a ton. He was more of an activist, but I thought he was such a talented artist. That's three. I'm going to say Eddie Murphy. Yes.

Because I just love him on screen as well. Hmm. I'm going to say, I'm going to throw Denzel in there. Oh, yes. Throw Denzel in that guy. I don't know what that movie is. But I don't know. That will get you on the, when you come back on the show,

I know we're going to pitch for that. Yeah. We'll pitch fest. Who's the next young writer or director that more people should know about? That's a great question. Tiffany Johnson, I want to shout out. She's been directing a bunch of television. She's phenomenal.

And she's the homie. And I know she's still waiting to make her first feature. But hopefully that time will come. I'm going to shout out my chief of staff, Brooklyn Field, who just wrote her first play called The Committee, which I'm a producer on. Nice. So we're going to get into.

It's really amazing. Sort of like a Herman's Head, needs inside out for adults. Herman's head. Oh, shit. Yeah, come on. I know, right? You know about that.

Come on, remember that? Come on. That's our play. You're going to come see it, the committee. Oh, I love it. So Brooklyn, Tiffany, these are all people like in my squad. Yeah, I just, I just feel like it's a new wave of folks that are, I'm a shout out Abby as well. She was a part of the second season of Helmand Grab mentorship lab.

She's amazing up and coming. So it's just a lot of folks that I'm honored to be, to be, to be, guiding and mentoring and making sure that they know how to navigate the game and not just be talented because you and I both know talent is not going to get you all the way there. It's about how do you navigate the industry, how do you carry yourself, your temperament, your willingness to sacrifice and sometimes compromise to get to where you're trying to go. Yeah, yeah. What's your biggest moonshot, a gold dream or ambition that might seem impossible?

Oh my goodness. I want to write an original musical for Broadway. and the impossibility part is more about it being lasting. The thing about Broadway is like, what are the shows that are still up? Like Hamilton, Wicked, you know, The Lion King, there are certain shows that just are never leaving their house because there's enough, their rent is always on time. And because Broadway is really about real estate. And so for me, I want to get a musical that's up that has that longevity.

And, you know, we obviously believe nothing is impossible. But it's like winning the lottery twice to get a musical up that lasts forever. So my hope is I do something that connects with audiences and sticks around for a long time. Well, I'll be there. I'm getting my ticket. I know you will. I know you will. I'm getting your ass to Baltimore.

You need to come to Baltimore. I need to come to Baltimore. I'm going to be on your ass. He missed my play. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm going to send you to archive.

I'm going to send you to archive so you can watch it. Okay. Did I send it to you? I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. I got to give you my new number because I changed my number. This is what rappers do.

No, I'm sorry. Oh my God. I have 18 numbers for Snoop. I just keep saving it under his thing. It's probably a game for everybody I know they have to put like Scott 20 or like Scott new new phone. Do you know I have not changed it? And Aziz always said he's like, you're going to change your number. You're going to change.

I was like, nope. And he has had to eat his words because I have refused. I have not. Not sometimes you may have to block a person. you may have to do certain things. My number is still the same. I refuse this. Also, because you don't...

We just talked the other day. I got your number. Yeah. Yeah, what are I talking about? Yeah. We like that. I keep it. I keep that number because I'm not trying to be that person.

Yo ass. Lena, thanks for coming through, man. This is awesome. You're the best. I look forward to making some movies with you. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, man. I'm with it.

Okay, let's go. All right. Hey, thanks for coming through the attic, y'all. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube. but wherever you get your podcast and follow the show or social media at Big Brocutty. Until next time, love yourself, take care of each other, dream on.

Peace.