Big Bro with Kid Cudi - What Collabing with Kanye, Eminem & Lil Wayne Is REALLY Like w/ Dot Da Genius

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

From Day 'N' Nite to Reborn, my best friend & favorite producer in the wooooorld pulled up today!! Dot da Genius is here and we talk about working on My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, Kids See Ghosts, The Adventures of Slim Shady & Moon Man and soo much more. Don't miss this one yall. Pull up, tap in and vibe out. Peace! new eps of Big Bro launch every Wednesday 🚀 Big Bro is a Wave Original.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for more good vibes, tune in everywhere @bigbrocudi ⁠⁠instagram.com/bigbrocudi⁠⁠ ⁠⁠tiktok.com/@bigbrocudi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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all with just a tap. No extra time needed. Open Apple Wallet and set up Apple Pay in seconds. Just in time for kickoff. Terms apply. one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets. Yes? Good. This is for you.

Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different, locked in, loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it, like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to.

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You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. Wave. And I played it for Kanye when I was in China with him. I remember that.

So I played on Reborn and he was like, That. That's got to be our first single. As soon as they hook him, I've saw. I'm sorry. Born, he's like, I'm moving forward. He was f*** with it. Like, instantly.

I was like, you like this? He was like, yes. That's got to be, we gotta have that on the album. That's got to be the first single. You called me. I don't know if you remember. It was my birthday. He was like, Kanye loves reborn.

I'm like, what? For real? He's like, yes, he's going to lay his first. I'm like, oh, my God. Yes. What up, fam. Welcome back to Big Bro with Kid Cutty, a wave original. I'm in Big Bro, Scott, coming to you live from the attic of my mind.

This week, I'm sitting down with my best friend and creative partner, Dr. Genius. We've known each other for 20 years. We've been working together that whole time. We talk about how we made day and night, Wyatt took off, a ton of behind-the-scenes stories, and the early days of Cutter and Doc. He's truly one of the most talented guys I've ever met. one of the best producers in the world.

So kickback, vibe out, and enjoy. Dr. Genius. Yes, sir. In The Place to Be. Thanks for having me, bro. Of course, bro. You know, I had to have an episode with you, bro. You're like, you're my best friend.

Likewise. And that's outside the music. We just, like, even if we never did music, we would still be in each other's lives. 100%. 100%. And it was important for me. to have one of my day ones on the podcast, you know.

And I thought that it could be interesting to kind of talk about some of our collaborations, how they happened. And I look at it like this. We've come a long way. We have. Yeah. We've been working on music together for 20 years. Shit.

You know what I mean? Like 20 years. Mm-hmm. Actually 21 years. Because we met in 2005. Oh, my God. Right? Yeah.

So I think it's okay to kind of show like where it started. Like I think people will be curious because also I want to show the kids like, Hey man, I wasn't coming out the gate. I wasn't coming up the gate. I wasn't always this nice. I didn't come out of the gate with day and nights just in my back pocket. You know what I mean? Let me ask you a question.

Do you remember because it was a moment in time where I saw it a switch flip for you. Okay. where I feel like you were approaching music a certain way, and then he was like, nah, I know what I need to do. Do you remember that moment where he was like, I need to dumb it down? Kind of. There was a moment where he was like, you know, I need to dumb it down.

Simplified. Exactly. And that really, I think, was the switch, you know? Yeah, well, that's how, I guess that's how we made day and night. Because that's why day and night was so like, I was able to find the minimal. Yes. It wasn't like so wordier, a lot of words coming at you.

Exactly. It was like phrases. Exactly. You know, staying and I, I toss it to her and I keep just in my mind, mind. Yes. I live a piece, but see, you know what I mean? And it's, it's, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't use the word dumbed down, right? But I would, but I would say simplify.

Simplify, yep. You know what I mean? That connects with the line, like, the ones to make it complicated, never get gradually. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? 100%. So, like, it was me being like, hey, man, I know if I'm going so hard with this shit, like, all trying to be intricate in, like, all this that I could lose people. Right.

Like, I want everybody to feel like they can sing along. I want anybody to understand what I'm saying. But, yeah, there was a flip, and it was around the time when we were working all day and night. Exactly. Because in every record after that kind of. Follow the formula. Follow the formula. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? 100%. It's crazy because. you know, those early days, do you remember when your parents sat me down and had an intervention with me? Yes. I was in the room for that. And they took me in.

A lot of people who read the memoir, they didn't know the story. And I lived with you for a couple of years, few years in East New York. And I didn't have a job. And I was just working with that when he would be home on the weekends because he went to school at some. But at first he was in the house all the time. But then he went to college. and was in the dorms, right?

So I would only see him on weekends. And I didn't have a job. So Monday, Friday, I'm just in the house chilling, you know what I mean? I'm just fucking kicking it. And I, you know, I would go, if I had enough money on my metro card, I would go to the city, maybe think up with some of my friends, kick it a little bit. But for the most part, I was in the fucking house, right? And one day, his parents sat me down.

And that was there too. And they were like, we're concerned. You know, like, what are you doing with your life? Like, you know, like, you don't have a job. Like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I told him I was, I'm pursuing music. And they were like, okay, but what if that doesn't work out? Right.

And I remember being like, I remember looking at them the whole time, I was just like, it's gonna work. Mm-hmm. That's exactly what. what you said. And they just looked at each other, they were like, they didn't know how to follow up. Bro, they had no follow up. Because they weren't expecting me to say that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, facts.

And it's crazy because when I was watching Marty Supreme, it literally, there was a moment in Marty Supreme where they had that conversation when it was like, why don't you have a job? He's like, I can't work because it gets in the way of like, you know, what me pursuing my dreams, you know? And he's like, but what if it doesn't work out?

He's like, I never thought, the thought never came into my mind. You know what I mean? And that's literally how I was thinking. Like, I never thought about failure. Like, it was going to happen. So when they saw how certain I was, they were really taken back and just kind of like, well, you always have to have a plan B.

And I was just like, there is no plan B. This is it. I don't know if we had day and night at that time. I don't think so. I don't think we did. But I could taste success. Like, it was close. Like the music we were making, we were on our way.

We made awesomely dope. Yeah, yeah. I can't remember if Cleveland was the reason it came before, it did, right? We were still in the basement when we did Cleveland is the reason. Day of that we were upstairs. I know, right? So, like, we were, like, and that song was fire.

Yeah, yeah. And, like, I remember being like, man, this is, this is epic. Like, Cleveland is the reason it's epic. Like, I just feel like if we keep going and keep cooking, we go find something. I'm going to be real with you. you definitely were the only one with that train of thought because I was also brought up like,

yo, you got to have something to fall back on. And that's why I was in college. And I think I told you about my homeboy, Greg from Philly, that I met when I was in college. And he was asking me, like, if you want to do music, why are you here? And I was like, this is the plan B. He's like, yo, your plan A should be your plan B. I was like, that sounds stupid.

In my head, I was like, that sounds stupid. You sound like an idiot. Yeah, what if plan A don't work out? that don't sound logical, but I get the sentiment behind it. You know what I mean? It's like if you're not putting the energy like plan A's plan B, you might not, plan A won't be successful. Yeah.

Yeah. And it is, it's a sacrifice. Exactly. That one has to make that I'm glad I did it at a young age. You know what I mean? Like I wouldn't be able to pull this off in my 30s or 40s. Let me ask you a question. So, because we've talked about this a lot,

but I really want now that we're like in front of the people when you left home right and you made that decision yeah how did you first get to New York and like how like what was the thought behind it because I couldn't imagine at that age just picking up going somewhere where I just know a few people and trying to figure it out you know what I mean I was curious about life outside of Cleveland outside of Ohio I was hungry I felt that this was my destiny and I had a feeling that New York was where I needed to be and it was those things that kind of led me like I was going blind but I was going off pure feeling and that's one of the reasons why I was telling a couple of my actors

that I cast it in my film I was like you know I'd go off a feeling and I didn't need you guys to audition I didn't need you guys to read Crazy. Like I felt something in my soul was telling me this is the right person. And that's how I decided to cast these people. And that's how every good thing in my life has come with feeling, our friendship, plain pat,

Emil, Sylvia Rohn, my wife. You know what I mean? Like, it was all, it was like, like when I first saw Lola, I was like, I need to know who this girl is. Like, I need her. her number in my fucking phone. You know what I'm saying? Like, and it was all feeling. I didn't know who she was.

Why did I feel this way? True. I just saw her. And we didn't have a conversation. It was all just like from the outside looking in, her aura or whatever you want to call it. Like, I was like, I need to know who she is. I want to get to know this person. It was feeling.

And all those feelings led me to good things on my album choices, everything I ever did creatively, intergalactic was a feeling. I mean, I never did no shit like that before, but I was like, yo, it could be epic. I feel like it could be epic. I just need the right people in place, and it'd be dope. You've willed all this to existence,

because knowing you for so long, you've been talking about acting since before music. You know what I mean? And just to see my first experience with that, and you obviously was how to make it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And seeing it, I remember being on set one day and being like, you were extra in that scene. So that was in Howta Maker. He's in the first episode at the party at the gallery. He's like walking in the background. You got to watch it and pay attention. Maybe we can find that clip and show it. Any movie, not any movie, but a few of Cuddy's movies, I've been an extra. Oh, yeah, yeah.

He was in Jeksy, right? Jeksy. I was in one tree hill. He was in one tree hill. I still get hit up to this day about it. People were like, yo, I thought I saw you on an old episode of what you here. I'm like, that was me. You all proud?

Like, yeah, that was me. That was me. I had no lies, but I was. You seen my previous work, yes? Word. Yeah, it's some things that follow me no matter what, man. Like, there's people that still leave comments like, you'll always be Dustin Whitman. What?

That's so fucking. And man, it was a small part I played on Brooklyn Nine-N-N-N-I. Like, it was a small, it was such a small role. But people still, they love that episode and they love, you know, what I did in that episode. And they're like, man, Dustin Whitman. It's just this funniest name, Dustin Whitman. But yeah, that's here follows me everywhere I go. Oh, God, bro.

What was it like when things started taking off? How did you feel? Were you like, what the fuck? Like, when you saw, like, how day and night took it? off. Did you kind of have to take a step back and just be like, oh, fuck, this is actually like happening for us. 100%, 100%. It's really hard to tell when you're in it. Yeah. When you're in it, it's... It's hard to tell. Yeah, you're not... Well, because you're, you're shocked. You're shocked, like... Word? And then I also have this, like, I had this thing like,

when are they going to find out I'm a fraud? Like somebody else wrote my songs or like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. I just had this like this feeling of imposter syndrome. Like, you know what I mean? That's real. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know.

It was weird. For me, when I started to think like, okay, no, this is kind of serious. It's like New York radio. Yeah. New York radio showed so much. much love to day and night. It was almost getting to a point where I'm like, yo, what the fuck is this?

Yeah. I'm pulling up. You know what I'm saying? Like my daughter, like somebody pulling up to get gas, the blasting day and night. Every time I got in the car, they was playing it. MTV, I'd wake up, because I used to go to sleep with the TV on.

Like that was a phase of my life. I'd wake up, they'd have it on. I'd wake up to the song playing. Then I was like, okay, no, this is something else. Like, 100%. And then everyone started, fucking remixing it, like everyone. I'm talking about collie buds, you know, obviously,

fucking, um, Germaine DePree, Trace songs. Didn't, um, what's my, what's my homie name? Pitbull. Pit bull, yes. Pit bull, didn't he do a remix? Yes, he did. Yeah.

And he shouted me out too on it, and I was geek. Yeah, man. Shout out to Pit bull, man. Like, that was a big moment for me. When I heard your remix, man, I was like, yo, pit bull did a remix? He's like, shout out to Keith Cody. I was like, oh, Mr.

No, Bob. Nice. I'm telling you. And I think that was the, that solidified it. It was like, okay, people love this record more than just the people that was in our media circle. Right. Because you did a great job at like making show motherfuckers you knew heard the song. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you used to send it out, put it on my space. You was very diligent about things like that. I was marketing myself early on without even knowing it. A hundred percent. You was in the streets. That's another thing I want to definitely talk about. I'm from New York City, born and raised. This man came to New York and literally became the mayor,

was out every night taking me to places. He used to hear me like, yo, come out, die. And I just like, ah, no, you know, I'm chilling. I got this test to work on. And you would be out all night, networking, meeting everybody. And you really did that. Like, you really cemented yourself in New York City just by being out. And the legend of Mr. Razia was born.

Yeah, they're right. Yeah, right. And you know, it's a lot of my people that I communicate with from my time. Like, I talk to Basti every once in a while. Nice. I remember that video, y'all. Yeah, I was actually talking to Basti because I was like, man, I would love to do like a follow-up. How far video?

Yeah. Well, like, she's walking on the street. And he pops up and a lot. And I got those same glasses. That was so good. It's like, Basty! Oh, my God. It's so crazy to see you here.

Funny running into you here. Funny running into you here. What are he running into you? Yeah, and I'm just giving it the crazy eyes. The crazy eyes. You said we were friends. Wait, did you climb through her window in this shit? I forgot.

Yeah, I didn't actually climb through her window. I just, like, you know, said I did. I said I did. But, yeah, I don't know what the motivation behind that was. I got to ask Vasi, like, what were we thinking? Like, was I just at her house? We were all hanging out. And I was like, ooh, let's do it.

do a skit where like I'm a creepy fan and like I stalked you and I come into your house because they had like a little play gun and I was like oh let's use that where I put it. So the gun really initiated the whole thing. We were like oh at the end I pulled out the gun

like I thought we weren't friends. But it was so silly and so random and like oh man I just missed those times I'm about to ask you. I just the times with Bastie and company all those kids that I hung out with

was like I hope my daughter experiences that type of camaraderie with some people. When she gets older and she's in her 20s and she's out of this school phase and she's meeting real people in life. You know, like I just really hope my kids get a chance to experience like friendships like that. Yes, bro. You know what I mean? I think times are different like when we think about back then and now. social media like yeah man we didn't have that and we actually had to engage with each other right and like talk and have good conversation and like like when I went over to bastie house

we weren't like sitting around on our phones right like we were like kicking it talking about shit music and like just hanging out being silly right you know it was just such a beautiful time to be young in the New York in the early 2000s but like it was New York is never going gonna have like I don't know if there's even a movement a scene right now is there a scene in new york i mean i gotta ask some young people there's some scenes but yeah but it's not like it's not like you're seeing it's not like you're seeing that like bastie had downtown and the choke for sure you know what saying sure like and when we threw those parties like she was throwing parties and j z will come cute tip word you know what I'm saying like I met jZ

when I was performing at Santos way before anything. He came to see me and said I did good. You know what I mean? Like, saw him after the show we took a picture. It's a legendary photo where I'm after the performance at Santos

or I'm just, it's me and whole. I remember that. That was like a big deal for me. I was like, yo, I got a picture with Jay-Z fuck. Bro. You know, that was so wild for me. Yeah. You know what? Brooklyn, Jay-Z's like... Yeah, yeah. So it was it was a great time

to be out. And it's funny that you bring that up about how I was always in the streets because I did feel like that was important. You know? Yeah. Like it was important. It was like people started to know me as

Cuddy, the dude from Cleveland that raps and his music is good. It's fire, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Everybody in the downtown scene that was hanging out with us, fuck with my music. Like my one dude,

Jason Scott, like he would take me to parties and then let me give my music to the DJ. Crazy. Jesse Marco was the first DJ that played my shit in the club. Shout out Jesse, man. Shout out to Jesse Marco.

He still, he got, he got, mm, uh, mm, yeah, he got that. He got that. He said he still got autumn records that I gave him early on, like 2005 that he played in the club. Insane, bro.

You know what I'm saying? And these weren't like, You were like little, like small little venues, restaurants that turn into like parties. You know what I mean? They had little booths and little tables. But it was like a little small spot. But it was still like he would play my music and then I would look around and see people dancing, see people vibing. And that's how I would kind of study what was working with the music.

You remember when you was living in New York and because this for me is when everything kind of was like, okay, this is for real. you started doing shows and I came visited you I came and visited you in Zuli and Bushwick and then you just pulled out a stack of bread and gave me a rack and that was the most money I had in my hand at the time like just $1,000 just like and I was like oh shit

like this was nothing you was like yo hold that you know what I was like fuck for what for nothing like you know what you mean what you mean for just in general like you know what I mean? I know you was looking at it was looking at and how you always look out. But for me, you were my brother, you know? Like, you took me in when I was about to move back to Cleveland.

Like, we would have never gotten to that place of me making money at shows had we not linked. No, no. You know what I mean? Shit, bro. And like, you know, I just, I just. Many a time, bro. Yeah, it was just like, hey, man, I was like, look, I got money where I could just get my friends, though. Like, bong, oh.

I'm also, too, like, I'm the type of person where I'd rather give the receipt. A hundred percent. You know what I'm saying? You don't place a big emphasis on money. No, no, no, I don't. Since I've known you, bro, it's like it's always going to come, you know, like, and then you never really like, yo, I need that 20 or whatever the case is. Like, you've never been done. You pay me back that 20 bucks I gave you last week.

Yo, cut of you a million? I know, I know. I know. But every buck counts. Every buck counts I gotta I gotta stay a million in there now I gotta stay a man in there now

I gotta say a man Let's talk about some of our greatest creations Oh shit You know I think people know the story A day and night But what's another deep cut

That they don't know about You know maybe is it trapped in my mind Or What's another one? We could talk about Cleveland is a reason, too. Okay. All right, so Cleveland is the reason

was inspired by Mr. Me Too. You remember that? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mr. Me Too, the clip song, Mr. Me Too, that Perel did fuck me up. Like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like that, that beat

fucked me up. And I was like, ooh, it's so minimal. I want something like that, but in our own way. Mm-hmm. So you continue the rest of it But that's how At this point

We're living in the same vicinity As my parents and my siblings, right? We made that in the basement In the basement, yeah Yeah So I had a little corner of the living room That we had to inconvenience everybody Whenever we wanted to record

Like turn the TV off We were about to lay down some vocals But everybody was super cool about it 100%. Yeah, everybody would always be like Quiet at the studio And it just be that whole house would get it We'd be like, fly to the studio

Oh, no, I also would have to be quiet. I'll tell you, man, it needs to be a TV show about this time, bro. It was real, bro. It was such a cool thing. Like, quiet in the studio, quiet. And then it goes upstairs. Everybody's like, quiet in the studio. We were so serious about this.

Like, whenever we worked, we were dead serious about working. Yeah. But essentially that day, I don't know if you remember, you were smoking cigarettes at this point, right? Yeah. So you were walking. Yeah, you kept going in and out to go smoke. So you were on the phone. And I had just gotten an X station, a Novation keyboard.

It's like a little 25E synthesizer. And I was messing with that sound. And then you was on a phone and you literally came back and was like, yo, that. You know what I mean? And then you went outside and go smoke a cigarette. So I laid it down. There's some quick drums.

Bro. And you know me, I don't, you know, I don't condone cigarette smoke. but for cutty is different whenever he smoked in newport his vocals will be silky smooth I'm talking about like any little rass for anything just yo go smoke a cigarette real quick and then come back on 10 you feel me like it's kind of crazy I don't know those newports those sports gave me a certain jinnisiqua my vocals you know back really menthol menthol for sure hardcore man hardcore and and and now I um I um I'm smoke Marlboro Reds.

I'm a cowboy guy. I'm a cowboy guy. Fucking cowboy dude. Kicking it at the saloon. Marijuana. Yes. And that was like a two-part thing. Yes.

Remember at first, I think you laid down the scent or did I day. You laid down the scent. Yes. And it was like, then, then, then-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-. You might have laid down the scent, actually. Oh, I think I did. Yeah, you did. Because that sounds like a cutty.

Yes. Yes, that was you. It's super amateur. Dude, but it was sick, though. Yeah, it was sick. Actually, man, you still have that beat. You still have the session.

I do have that. So I think we might, that might be cool to release marijuana, the version that it originally was. Because I recorded to that version. Yeah. And then Dot took it. I forgot what the thought process was, but I was like, man, we need,

I was like, I think the scent was too aggressive. Yeah. And I was like, man, we need, this is like a smoking song. Yeah. Like, why I got this like intense synth, then it needs to be like something that feels like a dream. Yeah. You know?

And I was like, dot, like, just do piano, just play the melodies. And we already had the vocals. Yep. So he just took the vocals and did piano underneath. We're in Hawaii at this point, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just came together. And remember we heard it back for the first time?

And I was like, oh, bro. And like, all that, that, that, Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yo, bro, marijuana is like... Plastic. Oh, man. I don't even know if that song... I think that song is slept on.

It should be bigger than what it is. And I don't hear enough people talk about marijuana. Every 420 should be like, Mariah Carey is all I want for Christmas. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Every 420 marijuana needs to be like at the top of the charts. But you know what's crazy?

I should have did a video for that. shit. I should have made it a single. Wait. You know? I didn't do a video to it. Amsteadam? Shire. Oh, we did! You did? But you know what? I don't think that. I don't think you can find... I don't know if it

was official. I don't think you can find it on my YouTube. Got you, got you. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. Maybe you guys can help us out with that. But even back then, just to make a point, again, this guy, he doesn't need much to go as far as when he goes, when you

talking about creativity. So working with him is like, damn, they're a handicap. All I got to do is touch the keys and he's off and running, like, since I know you, bro. So I almost feel like I was... Isn't that how another day happened? 100%. You were like...

You was like... D-de-de-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d... You know, that-da-da-da-da-da-da. That's literally our... She was like, you were just the tekees. You were just fucking around. I was like, that's that right there. Right there.

Record that. Handicab, I'm telling you, like, not all artists are like that. Some artists need the full picture. They need the whole painting to get the vibe. You are one of few that you can see the vision with just a little bit. Yeah. You know what? And that's why it's always fun working with you.

But you know what? You are just a master. So it's like, like, I, I see through your through you I know how to be like hey this one little part that you might not have thought about or you don't think it's a big moment is a big moment yes 100% like I see that being a big moment 100% and that's kind of like what happened with a with hit boy with red eye oh right can you like he's have we told a story yeah yeah I was in the studio I was at the Mercer this is when we were doing uh think beautiful darks was the

fantasy that that album At that point, we had every room on the second floor. Everybody was in the rooms working. Hit Boy had his own room. And I remember leaving, getting ready to leave, and I heard him playing scent. And it was just really gnarly sin sound. And I went in the room, and I was like, I was like, bro. I was like, what's this?

So I'm asking some shit. I'm fucking with. And I was like, my nigger. I was like, record that and send that to me. You know? And he sent it to. to me, we didn't build on it anymore, right? We just forgot about it.

It was so much other shit going on that we just forgot. And then I started working on Indica and I was putting tracks together and then I came across that scent. I hit up hit boy. I was like, yo hit, I really love that synth. I think there's a song here. Can I produce it up? Can I put drums on it and stuff?

He's like, yeah, go for it. So I put the drums on there, produce it up a little bit. And then I reached out to Han. Crazy. And they were just coming out, just popping. But I was a fan of their shit. And they responded back immediately. And we linked up.

And we made that song. It was such an awesome session. I love that. The girls are so cool. Like, we were just like, and we were talking. I was like, I said, how do we do it? Do you start the first verse? I was like, no, it's just all you.

They were like, really? I was like, you're just you in the first and second verse. I don't. I don't understand. I don't understand that this is in my head. Oh, my God. I sing it so terribly. But, you know, that shit was so far, bro.

But the things get crazy, and I think I was it. Yeah. You wrote that. I had my little, my little bridge part, my little bridge. Things get crazy. I live in my mind, baby. Oh, oh. Yeah.

Yo, I cannot sing. My adlips are so interesting, bro. I'll just be doing like, little... Yo, but that got to be studied. Your adlibs got to be a Harvard class. Like, Cody likes to, you know, hit this pocket. Yeah. Ew.

Ew. Ew. Bro. It's crazy. Oh, my God. So what other sauce can we talk about? Let's see. no one believes me

oh man we made that in my apartment in New York yes sir that was when we first started fucking with the guitar yes exactly WZRD was born pretty much on no one believes me I agree with you there yeah

when you picked up the guitar and really dedicated yourself to learning the instrument WZ was WZRD was born from that yeah I think I think that kind of proved to me that I could do it

Yeah, man. Like playing that guitar. Because I don't think I was even playing that long. I think it was like months. It wasn't long at all. No, like months I had been playing guitar. And I just picked it up and I was just like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Yeah.

Legendary. Like, and you see when you listen to the song, it's very, like, the guitar is very, like, amateur. Like, it's just a loop of just that, bam, bam, bam, bam, bang. Like, there's no, like, extra little flavor, like, how, you know, when I started to do speed and build the heaven and I was learning new tricks and all that, you know. It was very just like, I'm going to just play this strum and then dot you do the drums and then put the other little elements on top, the strings and all that. Yeah.

But like that was epic. Yeah. I think it fit the movie so well, even to this day, because I haven't in my Apple library a movie list when I go past it. I'm like, oh yeah, we got something in there. Like, it was perfect. That song is one of my personal favorites. That's one of my personal favorites.

The video? That video was really, really dope. Shout out to Craig Gillespie. That was when Cuddy the Vampire was born. And I revisited it on Neverland, you know what I mean? But it was dope. Like, I had the fangs, and I was like, oh, shit, you know? Like, it was so cool.

And I was a fan of Fright Night from a kid, you know, so it was dope to be involved with the new movie. and I was a huge Anton Yolkin fan Which song we want to talk about next stop? So the Slim Shady, the mentions of Moon Man and Slim Shady I thought was a moment Because obviously it was during the period of like When George Floyd happened and I thought it was dope that Eminem spoke up on it on the record Yeah

Y'all too connecting makes perfect sense but I never thought about it. Eminem is my goat. Right? And I just started him on that record and I was like, let me just reach out and see what happens. And he was with it. You know? And like, we were texting each other and he was just like praising me.

He's like, dude, that part on the song, you just bodied it. And I was like, yo, M&M is like texting me like, showing me love. That's fire. Like on my bursts on our. song you know what I mean too sick and it was it was truly one of the top five highlights in my career yeah I love him and them this this culture loves him and him you know he's a very down-to-earf dude you know he's a great example for

people you know in the world that have dealt with things and were able to overcome them yes that was that was a huge moment I remember when his first I album came out to some shady the some shady LP I remember like listen to that shit in high school like ninth grade like over and over

like bumping that shit over and over and like just being blown a fucking way by the level of skill right like that he had as a rapper you know and then also on top of that the Dr. Dre production

and like it was just come on man I feel bad that kids it wasn't the around in the 90s. Like, they didn't see that? Like, I was there when Eminem dropped his first album, y'all. I don't know about y'all. I was there.

I was there. You was there? You know what I'm saying? Like, and that was a moment. You couldn't escape it. Like, he definitely had the whole scene when he came out. And then the Marshall Mathers LP, the second one that came out with Stan on there. Like, come on, bro.

He was. So that was a big moment to do that record with him. So shout out Eminem. We got to have you on the podcast. You know, I gotta be a moment. That'll be fire, bro. We love you, bro.

Reborn. Oh, wow. Yeah. So how does this record come? I'm gonna let you tell it. I think a lot of our records, a lot of our, uh, um, more known records always come from a place of like comfort. So like either my house or your house.

Yeah. And it's not a real studio session, but it's like we chill in, we're smoking. Did we make that on the road? No, we, we made that at your house. at your crib in LA. Which one? The Will and Hills Grimm? Phelis.

Oh, Los Feles. Yeah, Los Feles. No way. I remember, like it's yesterday, because I remember the setup, and we did it in your living room. You know what I mean? As opposed to anywhere else,

we were just five in, chilling, and then I had my production set up, and everything just came together, like how it normally does. Like, you hear a sound, yo, that's perfect. Let's do this. You know, let's bring this.

together. So you recorded your, the hook there at your house. Yeah. And I think you did your verse too. No, I don't think we have verses. You don't have verses. You don't have verses. It was just a hug. I think we had a hook. And then I played it for Kanye when I was in China with him. Yeah, I remember that. And he was like, he, I remember I played it. Because I was just like, we were talking about songs for the album, right? For Kissy Ghosts. And this is 2017. And I remember, I was like, y'all, I got some vibes at me and I'd have been cooking, you know, I could play some stuff.

So I played on Reborn, and he was like, that, that's got to be our first single. Like, he was, he was, he felt it immediately. As soon as they hook him, I'm so, I'm sorry. Born, he's like, I'm moving forward. He was fucking with it. Like instantly, instantaneously. You know what I'm saying?

Within the first couple seconds. Bro. And like, that's how, that's, I was like, you like this? He was like, yes, that's got to be, we gotta have that on the album. That's got to be the first single. Like, it was the whole thing, you know? And like, you called me. I don't know if you remember, it was my birthday.

And you called me, and I was like, the best birthday gift I could have got at that time. He was like, yo, nigger, nigger, Kanye loves reborn. I'm like, what? For real? He's like, yes, he's going to lay his birth. I'm like, oh, my God. Yes. You know what I mean?

I was not expecting it. And, you know, we didn't make it for kids, see ghosts. No. Cutty montage is the one that we made on the road. That was when we were in Texas. Yes, exactly. And I had a funny-ass story, bro. This little kid did cartwheeled up to me.

And then said, looked at me and said, excuse me, are you a rapper? I was like, get the fuck. Get your ass out of here, get your ass out of here. That shit was so funny. But yeah, that was, we were definitely in the hotel for pretty montage. Teddy Montage was one of those ones, man, because I was listening to a montage of head, the Kurt mixtape.

And Burned the Rain was a song that I always came back to, but it was so short. It was just a small little clip, right? But in the clip, I heard the song completed, right? that and I just heard just that piece you know

over and over and I was like there's a song here there's a song here you know and you looped that shit up yeah you added

yeah added flavor and shit like that and you added drums and I came over with the Find it right back. Like the whole... Yeah, the flow.

Yeah, the flow. Say me, please. Like that whole... Hmm-hmm. Stay strong. Yeah, bro. And you did all this, like, so I feel like the tone of Kitsy Ghost was created

from those songs. Oh, yeah. Like the messaging and everything. Like, I'm sure Kanye was at a very pivotal moment in his life as well. Well, we had a discussion. Yeah. Before we started recording it, I was like, yo, bro, when we first, when he was first throwing

out the idea doing a collab album, I was like, bro, I want to make something spiritual and uplifting. Okay. That inspires people. He was like, man, I'm on the same shit. I remember you telling me this. He was like, I want to do the same thing. So we were on the same page and Kanye trusted me.

I trusted him. You know, I remember there was one time he asked me to write his verse. Just like, because we were scrambling to finish the hour. scrambling to finish the album. I don't remember me. He said, yo, Cody, write this verse for me. I was like, what? What? What?

Yeah. What? I was like, Oh, come on. Yeah, yeah, I was like, man, like, you like the greatest rapper, one of the greatest rappers ever. Like, what do you mean write your verse? I'm not saha.

You know what I'm saying? Like, what do you mean? Word. And you just left the room. room. I mean, I didn't say that to him. He said it and I was just like, okay. But in my head, I'm like, what the when he left the room? I was like, what the fuck?

What the fuck did I disagree to do, right? And you know, like I said, I've written for Kanye before, but it was like the 808 shit. Yeah. It was different. It was like, hooks and... Yeah, it was different, right? So this was just barred up bursts. And I was just like, oh, man.

But I remember writing it and recording it and he heard it. He was like, bet, all right. And he just went to the mic and started recording it. She had no notes. But it was like, there was one line that Sahai wrote, because when we did it or whatever, there was one

line that he wanted to change and Sahai was there. So he came up with the line, he came up with the line that snipped the little bootch off the nail. And I remember Sahai having to explain that whatever the fuck that meant. What does he mean? I forgot.

I forgot. That was a question I had. I assumed something, but, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you definitely ain't right that line. Hell no, that wasn't, I would never said that. I still don't know what that means since that. But, yeah, man, I want to talk about WZRD. Just do it.

Like, do you remember when I came to you with that idea? Yes. And I remember feeling like fish out of water. Like, guys, I don't know what y'all expect for me. I'm from East New York. But it was great, though, bro, because it allowed you to open up and become like, you know what I'm saying? Now, like, look at this, look at this podcast, bro. You're like, you're swat out.

You're like mad comfortable. Like, remember we had to do all those interviews with Complex? I was not comfortable, yeah. But I made you comfortable. We would laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I knew I was like, all right, God ain't, like me, I've had about maybe like four years of this shit so far. That hasn't.

You know, he's been in behind the scenes. And, like, I'm putting them in the forefront, right? he's right there with me. We're equals, right? And, like, I just know like, there were times when we would do photos shoots or, like, anything like that.

And, like, you, you would just be, like, so laid back and, like, you know, trying to figure out how to pose. But, like, you, you, you fucking, it was dope. It was like, I was the, we were, like, two different energies,

but we worked. It was like outcast, right? 100%. You know what I mean? And, like, it was, I remember we did this one interview. I forgot when we, I think we were in the desert.

because we did that complex shoot in the desert, right? It was a digital cover. Yep. And it was like we were jumping up in the air and it looked like we were floating. You remember that? Yes, yes. Yup.

But I remember us doing that interview, and I remember us laughing, like me saying something really goofy and making you laugh. Like, that was in my mind, I was like, you, I gotta make dot laugh. I gotta make him comfortable for this. You know what I mean? 100%.

It's outside of my wheelhouse, like you, when I met you, it was clear that you had to, star power. Like, everybody was drawn to you, you know, just because of your energy, your natural energy. And me, I'm more of a recluse. I'm more of a behind-the-scenes kind of guy. I love my privacy. You know what I'm saying? And Cuddy is the friend that pushes you outside of your comfort zone. You know, I've turned out so many things like, yo, come to this party, yo, come to this place. This person's going to be here. I'm like, no, I'm good. But when you came with the rock album, You know, because I'm very serious about music.

You know this about me. And I love to do my research. I took it very seriously. You like, I want to start a band. I'm going to learn the guitar. You pick up an instrument and let's start a band. And that's when the research started happening. I wasn't comfortable with the media stuff

because, like, that wasn't a natural thing for me. To have to sell your art is always a bitch. It's tough. You know what I mean? But at that point, by the time we were at WZRD, I had like three or four years under my belt So I was like better Like I was able to hold us down

Yes 100% Where it was like Anytime we had to do an interview or whatever Like you just piggybacked off my energy 100% You know what I mean Because you're like alright Cuddy's chill He's not taking this shit too serious

You know what I'm saying This motherfucker's chilling You know what I mean I learned how to be comfortable Just watching you Throughout the years Just like how to show up Have to turn on the charm

You know what I mean and make everyone feel comfortable, you know what I mean? So I learned a lot just from watching you do this shit. But let's talk about how. So that album we made in the hills. Yes. I remember sometimes the neighbors would leave notes on the door, like, cut that shit down. We were rocking that, that whole neighborhood.

That's a fight. But we didn't give a fuck. We'd be in there to like three in the morning making music. You know, you know? That's when we used to have those late night sessions. 100%. Now it's like we start at noon, 10th by 8. Yep.

Get home. Get home. Get home. Get home. Get home. We don't know. It's now. No late night sessions, you know.

Like, I remember I was trying to get little Wayne on seven. And they were like, hey, Wayne wants to do it. And I was like, all right, bet, bet. And then I was like, can he come to the studio at 5 p.m. or whatever? They're like, oh, Wayne's not going to be in the studio until three in the morning. morning. Oh, my God. I was like... That's insane. He gets started at 3-H. It was like two nights

because I was trying to get in the studio. I wanted to be in the room with Wayne making the verse, right? And it was all this like, he only works at night. You only work? And like, they would hit me up like, well, sometimes, be like, hey, Wayne's trying to go to the studio. And I'm like, Dennis would hit me up and like, yo, Wayne's going to link up tonight. And I was like, all right, to hit you up by 8. eight o'clock comes no answer nine o'clock comes

no answer 11 o'clock comes no answer by then I'm like in my pajamas I'm like all right I'm about to go to sleep then I get as soon as I get to bed and lay over

then I get a text like hey yo yo wanes in the studio right now pull up oh my god I'm like oh man guys do you pull up or do you no I'm butt ass naked man

I'm sleeping in the nude man you know there's no time I swear. So then it just came to like, yo, I'm going to just send him this record and just see. He does it when he can when on this late night session he sent it to me. But Wayne, we have to get a session. Where it's in the daytime, bro.

Word. Like, I want to cook some more, Wayne. Like, that was like, I like, that was like going to be one of those big moments. Oh, it's huge. Like, Eminem. A hundred percent. You know what I said? Like, I wanted to really see Wayne craft a verse for me in person.

Like, how many people could say they've seen that? No, man. You know? So, like, I... So, Wayne, like, you heard it here. First off, we got to get you on the podcast.

Hell yeah. And it's not going to be in the late hours. We'll do some at night if you want, but, like, yeah, we'll find a good time, get you back, but we need you on the podcast and we need another session. Let's make it happening. But, yeah, WZRD

was really that album. that allowed me to really explore making music. Like stepping outside of hip hop, you know, not saying that I wasn't able to do that with the first man in the moon. They were very musical. But, like, doing another genre was, like, exciting for me. Because I feel like, you know, the second album is when usually people were like,

oh, man, the second one sucks. He wasn't able to do it twice. I did it, like, back to back. There you go. And I did it in a way where it was tasteful It was like, hey, I'm not going to repeat myself I'm going to do something different And you're going to fuck with it

You know? And so I already feel like I was like, all right I mastered hip hop Like if I if I stopped making rap albums at that point People would have understood It wouldn't have been like how people look at Lauren Hill and be like oh well she had that album

And it was nothing after Yeah You know But people are still like Laura, and you're the illest. Because she is the illest because she did such an amazing job on an album.

100%. You know what I mean? And do you think about the stuff with the Fugees and all that? Mm-hmm. But like that album, you know, was so epic

that she didn't really need to do anything else. She proved herself. That's a fact. And that's how I felt about the first two men in the moons. I was like, man,

if I never put out another rap album, like, I'm good. Let me ask you a question. Like, what? So because,

Because, you know, you came to me with the idea of doing the band, but I never really asked you your inspiration for wanting to do it, right? I've always assumed that because to me and I think I speak for a lot of people who are fans of your work, they don't look at you as just a rapper, right? They look at you as an artist, right? So to me, I felt like WZRD was you showing that I'm not just a rapper. Exactly. I am an artist that can jump into different forms of art and thrive. It was definitely that. I wanted to show people how eclectic my mind was.

Word. You know what I'm saying? And how what I established with the mixtape, with the mixtape I went to many different directions. Like I wanted to show people with that mixtape that, hey, my whole career I'm going to be exploring. Yep. I'm going here, I'm going there, I'm going everywhere. So get ready. Word, word. And so by the time I did WZRD, I was like, I already established that I'm this more than hip hop. Let me just try something else and just keep exploring and expanding my musical

palette. Oh, yeah. But then also, too, on top of that, it was nice to have you with me because like I almost lost my mind during Man on the Moon 2. And like, I came out of that, the cocaine and like found some peace a little bit of peace and like it was nice to like do press and all these things with someone word you know what I mean like with like my best friend word word that was that was that's another reason why I did it so I was like I'm not gonna be fucking alone word yeah the the star lifestyle is kind of depressing I'll talk about this to the homies like But outside of the glitz and glamour, once you get off stage, right, thousands of fans screaming your name,

and then you go into a dressing room and you're by yourself. Yeah, I've definitely had, I've definitely had moments two in the morning after a show, I'm on tour. Can't sleep. And I just look in the mirror and just look at myself. And I'm just like, who am I? Word. And I'm just like, I have no one around.

I'm by myself. Who am I? And what is happening? You know? And I'm just looking at the mirror and just stare at myself. Like 10, 15 minutes to stare in silence, just think over and over. You know, like, who is Scott Meskid?

Really? Like, what is a Scott Meskid? You know? Or have ever had those thoughts? Like, who is Al-a-Dipo? Yeah, no. Like, what is this? Like, what's a simulation to my end?

Like, what the fuck? Trying to find meaning, you know, like, and even like, you know, we are, we just are, right? We're human beings, we're sentient beings, like, we're roaming this earth and we're just existing. But now we have to think about what defines us, you know, just living in life. Otherwise, it feels like you're just kind of just out here. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, no, I've always wondered that, bro. Like, you have to have a good, strong mental fortitude to be a superstar, you know,

entertain and deal with thousands of people throughout your career and still have a balanced life. Otherwise, it's like it seems like lonely as fuck. So I do this bit sometimes where I read a script with my guest. Okay. And I decided we should read a scene from The Matrix. You play Morpheus. I'm Neo. But you got to do a Morpheus voice.

Okay, I'm a terrible actor. No, you're not a terrible actor. You've been on Montre Hill. Welcome, Neo. As you no doubt have guessed, I am Morpheus. It's an honor. That's my Keanu voice. No, the honor is mine.

Please come. sit. I imagine right now you must be feeling a bit like Alice. Tumbling down the rabbit hole. You can say that. I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts

what he sees because he's expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Can you tell me, Neo, why are you here? You're Morpheus. You're a legend. Most hackers would die to meet you.

Yes, thank you. But I think both know. Yes. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Yes, thank you. But I think we both know there's more to it than that.

Do you believe in fate? Neo. No. Why not? Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life. I know exactly what you mean. Again, that smile could cut glass. That's that dialogue.

Again, that's not, are you flirting with Morpheus? In this script, is Morpheus flirting with Neo. I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you are here. You have come because you know something What you know, you can't explain it, but you feel it You felt it your whole life Felt that something is wrong with the world

You don't know what, but it's there like a splinter In your mind driving you mad Is this feeling that brought you to me Do you know what I'm talking about? The Matrix Do you want to know what it is? That was good, That was good, right?

Man, look. Y'all was fucking great. Y'all want to hire me, you feel me? I'll be on the next cutty, cutty fucking, you know, production in the background. This is the wrap-up. I do this at the end of every episode, right? It's just rapified questions. For sure.

What's one thing you nerd out about that might surprise people? Man, I'll be honest with you. you. I'm just a big nerd so I nerd out about a lot of things. What's something that's like random? Random. I would say like you say something like gadgets. Oh, or guns?

Okay. I was trying to be keeping a PC. I see I didn't really want to, you know what I'm saying? But I definitely went down the gun rabbit hole, y'all. Like, I'm sorry. As black men coming up in America, we made it feel like guilty immediately if you own a gun. Like, you're a robber or some shit. I took advantage of my two-way rights.

You know, I can carry, you know, I know how to shoot. Well, I use different firearms. But really, like, I'm just a nurse. So, like, I've built, like, maybe eight computers in the past two years. Oh, shit. Or, like, my friends and family, like, trying to convince him to... What? Wait, hold on.

Wait, what? That's the genius. That's me, y'all. I'm telling you, like... That's your theme song. When you have your own podcast, you're going to be like this, on the front, like this. She's like, Dr. Junior, that's me, y'all. But that was Dennis's thing.

That's Dennis. That's me, y'all is Dennis. Yeah, yeah. Maybe Dennis has got to do for everybody. That's me, y'all. So my old manager and best friend Dennis Cummings, right? I used to make theme songs for all my friends, and Dennis' was getting it in with all skin. that's me y'all all my friends have theme songs like i make up little nicknames for them and shit that's a fact

what's one classic album that you would want to go back in time and cook a beat for oh that's a great question that's a great question right yeah and you know what it's just crazy because we were in the space and you're part of the album already um but my beautiful dark twisted fantasy I feel like I was so close but so far We literally in the studio with this man We're in the same building We upstairs working on our shit And you know

I just didn't know the etiquette To like present anything And on top of it I was focused on the objective at hand Which was man on the moon too Right But it's like the man is downstairs Like you know You know

It was right there but you know That's probably one of Only because, and I say this all the time, like, and, you know, coming up and watching Kanye and watching him, like, kind of make his way into the game, it was very inspirational for guys like us. Yeah. And it really put the stamp like, yo, I'm going to produce. That's what I'm going to do.

Yeah. So that's, yeah, that, yeah. You're on that album, so. Yeah. Yeah, I was on there. Amazing moments. That was on there, you know. Doing my thing, putting a little pimp glitter down.

Like you do. Who are your top five producers of all time? But, no, I just got to be honest as far as influence, right? Yeah. And this list doesn't have to be from illest to least. They can be wherever. Okay. You know what I mean?

So it's not like the number one got to be like the almighty. You know what I mean? You just put them however, wherever. Big fan, obviously of Kanye, big fan of Just Blaze. big fan of Timbalin. Timberlin definitely, like, you know, when he was in the middle of his run, it was one of the most inspiring things for me to really want to make music just because he seems like such a regular dude. You know what I mean? And but his mind, you know, is just crazy.

It's insane. But if I had to, like, give credit to producers that I feel like are at the top of their game. I feel like Michael made it like when I go back and revisit his catalog insane. You know, what he did for Atlanta. Yeah. And then then I'll go for real like maybe havoc. Havoc. Because like that's a great choice.

Yeah. Havik, you know, all the early mob deep shit. And even the shit he's been producing lately is like his sound is so distinct. You know what I mean? And the drums, the gritty drums, big fan of havoc. And I think when I work on drums, he's one of the people I think about, too. Yeah. Especially lately.

That's a great list. Thank you, bro. What's your biggest moonshot, a goal, a dream, or ambition that might seem impossible? I like to build. That's one thing I realize about myself, whether it's PCs, studios or anything like that. Every time I visit a really dope studio in the back of my head, I'm like, I want to own the best studio in the United States and America. And it doesn't have to be $30, $40 million. It's just about the feng shui.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Certain pieces of equipment doesn't have to be filled up, but it's just got to be the right space. And I, you know, I have the brewery in New York. I had it in L.A. for a bit. And I love, you know this about me. I love putting studios together. That's just like a fun thing for me.

Yeah. So I wish you'd put a studio together for me. Asshole. I'm waiting what you mean. But that's another conversation. We can take this off the podcast. Bro. We didn't build so many little baby studios.

Like, my living room doesn't count. You know what I mean? No, I'm ready. Whenever you're ready, I'm ready. You got the foliage in your studio at home. foliage and shit. I went in at the home studio. That was my chance.

The table goes up down when we push up a button. He didn't even use the table anymore. He has a small desk now in front of the big desk. I like this. Because he has to face the other direction, which I noticed the other day

when we were in the studio. I was like, oh, he doesn't like his back turn towards the artist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tweaked everything. I do exactly why you did it. I do exactly when you made the change. Who's one guest?

You'd love to see you on the show. Ooh. Who would I love? Yo, the ladies, man. I just literally text, I just literally text Tim Meadows yesterday and asked him to come on a podcast. He said, of course.

Tim Meadows will be a guest. We're going to work it out. Yes, we have to have Tim. Bro, you are having such a legendary guest up here. It's insane. Yeah, man. And you're uniquely positioned because you can reach across

all areas of art and fashion and movies. And this feels like, to me, when I was watching the first couple episodes, I'm like, yo, this is like a movie podcast. Like, I'm getting a lot of insight on, you know, what it's like to be on set and like what a lot of people had to deal with. So it's sick, bro.

Thank you, bro. Thank you, bro. Thanks for doing this. Thank you, bro. Hell yeah. I appreciate you, man. Hey, thanks for coming through the attic, y'all. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast

and follow the show or social media at Big Bro Cutty. Until next time, love yourself, take care of each other. Dream on. Peace. Big bro. We're big bro.