Big Bro with Kid Cudi - Willow Smith & Kid Cudi on producing new music, Anime, and growing up in Hollywood

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

My lil sis Willow Smith pulled up to Big Bro! She shared her journey of playing and learning new instruments, producing her own music, and pushing herself to reach her most authentic sense of expression. We get into Petal Rock Black, The Thread, Rose Golden and what it means to create from a place of truth instead of chasing outside expectations. We also talk about anime, our upcoming movie Slime, growing up in Hollywood and staying authentic in the age of social media. Kick back, vibe out, and enjoy. This week's episode is brought to you by Adobe Acrobat. Check out my PDF Space today over at adobe.com/bigbro! subscribe for new eps of Big Bro launch every Wednesday 🚀 https://www.youtube.com/@BigBroCudi Big Bro is a Wave Original.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for more good vibes, tune in everywhere @bigbrocudi ⁠⁠instagram.com/bigbrocudi⁠⁠ ⁠⁠tiktok.com/@bigbrocudi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wave. My whole career flashed before my eyes because I just had this epic moment with Kanye. I'm seeing 70,000 plus people sing Pursuit a Happiness, and I just get emotional. We accomplished the mission. Yes. Gambino said something to me that was really interesting. He said, when you have such a strong spirit, when you try to emulate someone else, it's automatically going to be something no one has ever heard before.

Like, you really have a very unique voice. Thank you. My first album that I really was like, okay, I'm about to be on my prince. I felt like I wasn't reaching my potential as a musician. Even just the privilege of being born into the family that I'm born into, I felt like there was a level of like milking my potential that I wasn't reaching. My biggest goal or dream would probably be to reach a state of embodied ego less nest before I die.

What's good, y'all? Welcome back to Big Bro with Kid Cuddy, a wave original presented by Adobe Acroback. I'm your big bro, Scott, coming to you live from the attic of my mind. This week we're joined by my little sis, the endlessly talented Willow Smith. She's a musician, guitarist, artist, and someone who refuses to stay in one box. Willow is a one of one. So kickback, vibe out, and enjoy. See you on other side.

Willow. My little sis. Mr. Meskiddy. Yes, that's me. That's me. Welcome to Big Bro. I'm so excited to be here. This is a big deal.

It is. You are literally my sister, my family. I think we met, when would we meet? I think you were like nine. Yeah, was it at a studio session? Yes. Yeah. And I was so nervous.

Oh my gosh. I had these converse on that I had written like so many of your lyrics on these converse. And my brother, I remember this so vividly. My brother was like, Cuddy, you need to look at her shoes. Look at her shoes she's got. And I was like, no, don't say anything. It was so funny because I remember after the first time we met, Jaden text me, he was like, look what you did to my sister, dog.

And you had like Kid Cuddy on your nails. Yes. I was like, no way. But like, no, you guys have been like, because I'm the youngest of my family. And I always wanted younger siblings. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like I feel like you and Jaden are like the younger siblings I always wish I had.

You know what I mean? It's an honor and a privilege to be in your life. And I mean, putting aside just like the inspiration that you've had in our lives just as a musician and a creative and a visionary, just like you as just a guy and a person. Yeah, just a dude. You're just such a fun hang and just I just love hanging with you. Oh, man. I'm hanging with you. We had so many good times throughout the years and, you know, just watching you grow as an artist.

And, like, I'm just so proud of you. And every time I see you, even when you get in your, like, your modeling bag, I'll be seeing you in, like, these little campaigns and shit. Like, you know, sometimes you got to work it. You got to work it while you can, okay? Like, you know, but no, I'm proud of you. And I think it's a beautiful thing just watching you grow and navigate this weird industry and this weird city. It's big thanks to you as well. I know Jaden would say the same thing.

Like having you as kind of like one of our North Stars for just like authenticity and honesty in the craft and in the industry. Like you've always been the guy to say whatever you want. and whatever you're thinking and whatever is true, which is not always the most popular thing in this industry and at such a high level of you speak to the masses. Yeah. Yeah. I do know that you're very hard on me sometimes.

Hard on you? You're hard on me sometimes. Really? All right, y'all, this is story. Story time, story time. Oh, my God. So I'm going to see if you remember this. But it was your birthday, I believe.

It was your birthday and it was a house party. You threw a party. Yeah. I came over and I think it was right before Insano came out or something like that, right? And I had, I was telling Jayden, I was like, yo, I got this song and I want to play, right? You know what I'm going with this, right? Yeah. So I played this record and it was at the party, right?

The song I have with Travis, right? And Willow comes up to me. She was like, you know, man. Mind you, before you say this, I had a couple drinks. Okay. I had a couple drinks. I was just being very honest. I appreciated it. Like in hindsight, like that's what I want you guys to always be with me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't have any yes man around me. You know Omar. Oh, yeah. He'll fucking tell me straight up like, yo, bro, I think you need to change this or whatever.

100%. But in the moment you told me you were like, you know, you was like I like it, man. It was cool. But like that's not like you guys. to get back to your, like, yo shit, though. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm like some shit with some feeling. Like, you know, I was just kind of like, in a moment, I was kind of like, all right, I feel you. I feel you. But that song was like a boss up song, which is like they have those places where like you've got a boss up.

Well, you know what I mean? The one thing that I've discovered in recent years, right, from watching what happened with Insano and Nitro Mega and saw how people receive that. Totally. is that people fell in love with me one way, right? I was the artist that spoke to the pain and the struggle and the broken heart and all these things, right? Yeah.

And for a while I thought like, oh, man, people don't want to hear me happy. They just want to hear me miserable. But that's not the case, right? It's really, it's not about them hearing me happy because I have records where, like, I've been happy all the way through and they've been successful. Right? Yes. But like a joyous record.

Yeah, yeah. 100%. But I think that it's like when I think about Insanone and Nitro Mega, my goal for those two albums would just make a fucking banger that everybody can dance to at my concerts. And that was the goal. You know what I mean? To my defense. I think at that time, like not everything always needs to be like an injection of truth all the time.

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes I feel like you can overdo it with the like, I'm just like a hippie through and through. And sometimes I feel like, no, it's okay to just boss up and have fun. Like you don't always have to be like informative or like speak to the wounded place all the time. And that was kind of, and yes, exactly. That was kind of like my moment to just kind of take a break from.

And I didn't. I want to apologize for not, for not seeing like. like that you just needed to boss up. I don't think I could articulate it to explain it to you at that time. Yeah. It's very simple. Like, you know, I should have been, I should have been right there with you. But you know, you grow.

And you, and you expand and understand that like not all the time. Is it about being all deep all the time? Yeah. And also to my thing since the beginning of my mixtape was all about, let me show the range. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's going to be. And you have.

crazy range. Yeah, I try to push it as best I can, you know what I mean? And you're like that too. This might be a hot take, but speeding bullet to heaven, one of my favorite albums by you. That's not, I mean, I think if this was 10 years ago, it would have been a hot take. Yeah. But I think now over the years, like people, people accept it now. Yeah, you were so ahead of your time.

Yeah. And also, too, I like to say that that record, as well as Man on the Moon, too, are true examples of someone struggling with mental health on wax, recorded. Like a true piece of evidence. And also an expose of producerial and vocal variety. Yeah. Which is like, kudos, clock it. You know, let's clock it.

Thank you. Thank you. I dabble. But yeah, man, it's crazy. Like, you guys inspire me. You and Jaden. You know what I mean? Like, and when I watch you, like, it reminds me like, Scott, this is, this was your spirit, man.

Don't ever lose. What Willow was doing is like, that was your spirit when you were that age. Don't lose that, bro. Don't lose that, bro. Don't use the curiosity. Yeah. You know what I mean? 100%.

It's easy to get jaded being in the industry for so long. Yeah. It's so easy. Because when you're so high up, it's such a long fall down. 100%. You know what? And you start to become afraid of like, what are people expecting of me? Yes.

Am I not serving the people in the way that they want to be served by me? Right, right. And I think that sometimes I can hold us back from like actually stepping into who we are in that moment and the truth of that moment. I feel you. That's tough. Yeah, it's one of the things that I've kind of gotten told. to a place that word. Whenever I hear the voice in my head that's unsure,

I just kind of take a step back and I go like, look, Scott, your ideas are pretty good. Yeah. You've been doing this for 18 long years. Yes. Right? And you've been trusting yourself this whole time. Don't get in the way.

Of your own. Yeah, you can totally get in the way of some shit, bro. You can sabotage yourself. Yeah. Like let your create, when you were making Man on the Moon 1, you didn't second guess not one verse. Totally. When you were making Man on the Moon 2, you didn't second guess, oh, is this song too fucking dark? You just made it.

Yes. You put those Coke Sniffs in these worries and didn't worry about how people will respond to it. That's rock and roll, bro. You know what I mean? Like, it's almost like I have to remind myself of that spirit. Totally. Pure freedom. Yeah.

And that's where I'm at like with. The new stuff I'm working on. You sent me a song not too long ago. Yeah. Well, that was for slime, I think. That was for slime. I think I sent you something for slime. Really?

I just know I was bumping it and really enjoying. Every time you sent me. It was a song or was it a beat? I think it was a song. Okay, I think I sent you something from the new album. Every time you send me something, I always feel just like blessed and highly favored. I always sit in there like midnight. Yeah, I'm like, oh, let me.

bump this shit, like for real. Yeah, I'm always so grateful. I feel it, man. I feel it. I was like, you know, let me just like when I'm working on stuff, like I got, you know, Omar, I got my wife. I got, you know, my people to give me opinions and I can ask them what they think about things.

But it's so dope to be able to reach out to you, someone who I know their taste level is extremely high, like, and just be able to send you. something and be like, let's see what Willow thinks. Totally. Like that's just so dope that I could do that at any moment. Or even Jaden. As artists, we need to be able to do that. I feel like back in the day, that was more common.

Yeah. I feel like artists communicated more. Yeah, and now it's more competitive. Yeah, exactly. And that's kind of like why I don't really subscribe to the hip hop. Like, when I think about myself, I think about myself as just an artist. You know what I mean? And like...

I mean, you're going to be. into film and exploring that side of you're the visual art side of things as well and that's the thing it's like I kind of fall into like and that's one thing I don't like I do get competitive yeah and it's like I wasn't competitive when I started this shit I was just dicking around making what I thought was cool yeah and now I'm like no I got to do this I got it's got to be the illis and even though the goal is it always has to be the illist it doesn't have to be like I don't have to be so hard on myself. Yeah, no. And I get in the studio sometimes and I used to like just really be hard on myself like, yo, I gotta have. I struggle with that a lot, especially recently since I've been,

you know, getting into the jazz community and listening to a lot of like different kinds of music that are, it's challenging music to play and to understand. And so, you know, I'm always, trying to stretch my brain. I'm always trying to stretch my technical ability. But I have to be mindful of not getting into that mindset of like, oh, well, I'm just going to sing the fastest thing or do the craziest harmony or do all of these crazy time signatures just to try to like prove that I'm like this kind of musician. And it's like, nah, that's where we start veering off of the path of the truth and start doing it for other reasons. Even though, you know, I love a seven groove. You know, I love to hit a nice little scat moment. But it shouldn't come from a place of

competition or trying to like prove myself. And that's what I feel like when I listen to your music, I feel like Willow has the true spirit of an artist. Whereas I'm going to create free form and whatever comes out in this moment is what comes out. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And then after this, I move on to something else. The last project I put out, the thread, which I was listening to the other day. Really? Which is my shit. Thank you. Let's talk about the thread, right? She's my religion.

Crazy dope, right? Thank you. Talk on the Hill, another one of my favorites, but crush on eternity and tall baby and the present moment that trifecta back to back is like out of here. Thank you so much. Let's talk about, you know, how this album was conceived. Like, because, like, what is, like, in your head before you approach your album? Like, what's the thought?

So this kind of, I got to give you the lay of the land a little bit. So the album that I put out before this, Petal Rock Black, that album, I played the drums. I played the piano, the bass, the guitar, arranged everything. And it was my first album that, like, I really was like, okay, I'm about to be on my print shit. Like, I'm really about to be trying to, like, dig deep and see what's there, not only in my voice, but, like, with these instruments. Like, what is my real relationship with these instruments? Right. And so there was a lot of thought that went into every song.

And a lot of struggle of me just being like, do I really have the chops to create an album that I can be proud of, you know, years later? But that was the exciting part, the fear, the scary part. exciting part, you know, every day I'm going to the studio and I'm like, I don't have any homies in here to be like, oh yeah, you should do that. You know what I mean? It's like what happens when it's just my opinion. Yeah. And so that led me into a position to where I was like, now I'm just ready to let it rock. Like now I'm ready to just let it go instead of constantly like, I'm going to play this piano progression a hundred times to try to see, like if it's right. I'm going to play this drum part a hundred times to try to see, you know, how I can change it. Shout out to my homie Chris Griati.

We, yeah, my co-producer on the thread. My real intention with the thread after coming out of Petal Rock Black was like, okay, let's not have a microscope on every single thing because you have this amazing other musician here who can support you in so many ways that you can just be free now. Right. And so that was really the main. focus that I went into with the thread. I really wanted it to be a devotional album as well. Like we're praising the whole time. We're praising the holy mystery, you know, the whole time. Right, right. I find that through, like, listening to your music throughout the years, like you really have a very unique voice. Thank you.

Like, I was working out one day and I had just my music playing, my Apple Music plan. and one of your songs came on and I instantly knew it was you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not, you don't confuse you with anyone else. Yes.

You know what I'm saying? But you know what I'm saying? That's like at the end of the day, that's really what it's about to think about all the music in creation in the world that exists to be able to stand out out of everyone. Yeah. is like crazy dope.

Thank you. Thank you. And I just want to commend you on this. You know what I? I study in order to put myself in a mental space. Yeah. To be able to achieve a unique sound. Like I was in the studio with St. Vincent a couple years ago.

She's amazing. And I was like just picking her brain. Like, so how, like what is your goal? And she was like, every time I go into the studio, I'm always trying to make a song that doesn't remind me of anything I've ever heard. I'm always trying to make a song, one, that doesn't remind me of anything I've ever heard. And two, the song I've always wanted to hear that I've never heard. And it's like a mixture of those two things. And I was like, like, it seems simple.

But hearing it from her, like, really was like, duh, like, yeah. Well, that's, that's dope because for me, when I go in the school, studio, I'm thinking about how can I make the best song ever made in the world? Yeah. Totally. And I'm like, all right, I'm probably not going to achieve that. But it's a good North Star. On the way there, on the way reaching for that goal, I'm going to make something epic.

100%. Like, it's always like. And you have multiple like magnum opus, like songs that make you feel like you're just going to levitate out of your fucking. Like fucking Rose Golden. Can we talk about Rose Golden for a little bit? Yes. Let's please.

So this song, I'm. I'm so proud of this song. Like, it is such a special song because it was our first song together and it is a real collaboration. Yeah. It's not like you just came and did a 16 and was gone. Totally. Like, you are all, you feel your presence all over.

You're in my verses. You're all over. One thing I noticed with that record, I was like, wow, me and Willow sound amazing together. Yes. Like our voices. Yeah. And just, like, really the. our spirits, like singing in such, like, it was beautiful to be able to be in the studio and

hear you sing. And, and because you were singing, you were like, no, you should do it like this. You should maybe try it like this. And it was so beautiful to like have that kind of conversation with you about like, let's sing back and forth. Like let's like really get into it. Let's like have a conversation. A musical conversation. Yeah. Yeah. I was really nervous too. But, but my My nerves quickly subside. How old were you? You were a teenager. Yeah.

Yeah. Man, that was crazy. Crazy. You were making shit like that at 16. Y'all don't want to hear my shit when I was 16. Y'all don't want to hear that shit. The world will never hear that shit. There's probably some gems in there, though.

I don't know, man. I don't know. I was calling myself Little Scott and shit. I had no. Hell yeah. Little Scott. That's all I was, you know. Just a rap about shit happened at that school.

I love it. You know what I mean? But, no, that's, but Rose Golden is, you know, one of those records that, like, if I pull it out of the show, people are going to go crazy. Exactly. And I really feel like we need to have. We need to perform that song together. We have to. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And I'm working on something now where in the end of the year, I'm just so excited about how the tour went. And I just missed the stage so much. and I'm going to do like a little surprise show at the end of the year. Oh, hell yeah. And just have all my friends come out and just kind of like... Because this is the thing about you. You'll hit me up like a week before the show.

No, I'm going to give you a heads up. And I'm like, we're going to rehearse. We're going to rehearse. I'm like, bro. I'm like, I need a little bit more lead time. You know what I mean? I'm going to give you proper heads up because I want to be there. No, you have to be there and we have to rehearse and we got to get it all right.

Exactly. And I imagine we might even do some new shit between now and then. You never know. Let's please. But I really want to. I have a moment with you performing that record because it was a special moment for me making a song with my little sister that had a powerful message that was uplifting and many people have told me that that song is like a healing that's what I'm saying yeah like it's a healing

moment 100% and we need there's so much like negative reinforcing. in modern music. Yeah. And I feel like alongside you, alongside my brother and, you know, a few other individuals, we're just like carrying that flag of like, nah, like let's not, even through you being so truthful about those dark feelings in a weird way, it's not negative reinforcement. It's like, and me too. It's like we're in this together.

It's a community feeling of like, yes, it gets dark, but like we can't. can rise and we can feel that love in our hearts, even in the darkness. Right. You know? Right. There is light. Exactly. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I'm loving this conversation with Willow, but I need to take a second to take a shout out to today's sponsor, Adobe Acrobat. Adobe Acroback's new feature, PDF spaces has been a huge help when it comes to prepper for episodes. You can drop up to 100,000 to its AI power workspace. It's been making my life way easier. I can throw in notes, articles, even web links.

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So make sure you check it out. You know, anytime I step out, I gotta be fresh. I gotta be dripping from my sneakers to my fit. There's nothing like that feeling when you've been looking for one specific piece and you find something you didn't even know you were hunting for. That merged from your favorite band or a pair of jeans, perfect for any occasion.

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and I was listening to the last song and instantly just tears started to flow. Yeah. And I was just, they weren't sad tears. They were tears of like triumph. Yes.

Like I just, my whole career, 18 years, flashed before my eyes because I just had this epic moment with Kanye. I'm seeing 70,000 plus people sing Pursuit of Happiness to me. And I didn't have a second after, because it was so fast, and this was like the moment where I had a second to just sit and think. And I'm listening to the new music and I just get emotional. And I just put my fist up and I'm just crying.

I'm just like, thank you God. Yes. Thank you God. Flooded with gratitude. Yeah, because we accomplished the mission. Yes. I was just telling my cousins last night, we were at dinner and having a deep convoy. And I was like, if you don't feel like you need the song that you're creating, I mean, other people might feel like they need it. But when it hits your heart as the person who's singing it, as the person who's producing it, as the person who is the front artist of that piece of music, if it doesn't hit you in that special place,

I always say, like, you got to, we got to work it out until it hits me in that place that I want it to hit other people. Yeah. You know, so you being moved by your own music, I think is actually a huge testament to why your music hits people, others, so deeply in their heart. Yeah. Because you're touching your own heart very intimately. Yeah. And that, like, reverberates. When you touch your own heart, you touch the hearts of other people.

And I think in that moment I was like, man, like, just realizing, like, I help people in this way and as a priceless thing, like, I'm an important person on this planet. Yeah. And you can inspire others to feel that they are also and important people. That's why I'm important. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm the messenger. Yes.

You know what? I used to say, you know what? I'm not even a musician. I'm a messenger. Yeah. I'm just carrying the message through whatever art that I'm doing. And like specifically with the thread, like every single song I was like, if it doesn't move me to that space of putting my hands up and being like, wow, like this is beyond my ego

perception of Willow as a musician doing this and how she wants people to perceive her. Like if it doesn't move me. me beyond that point, I don't need it on the record. Yeah. You know. And that makes it easy when you're making your track lists. Yeah. You're just like, that's why, like, I know some people ask me like, man, how do you come

up with these track lists for your albums? And I'm like, it's easy. Totally. It's like the easiest part. 100%. I mean, where some people could, I imagine for a lot of artists is hard when you're in the system. Yeah. You got the big label in your ear.

Like, we need another radio single. Exactly. We need another hit with your A&R being. You really need to work with this person because they're going to get you that, yeah, whatever it is. When you're in the system, like some artists are, right? But when you're like one of us, you know, you just do what the fuck you want. Exactly. And it's like, hey, I feel like this track works better after this track.

Let's move this to track nine. And we have the privilege to be so authentic. Yeah. And that's the thing that's like, yeah, I hit my knees in gratitude almost every day for that because. not many artists get that privilege or that opportunity to be, to have that level of cultural acclaim to where the trust is just like, we know you're going to do something important and special. So you do your thing.

Yeah. You know what I mean. And there's people on board that are just like that. Yeah. 100%. And that's kind of like what I've realized over the years, it's like I have to cater to the audience that's, that's, you know, locked in 100%. Yeah.

You know, man, Cuddy, if you do a country album, I'm buying that shit. 100%. Because you have fans, me included. Say right now I'm not doing a country album. I don't want y'all to start thinking in the comments like, cutty, do it. Next thing you know, you got a banjo. You know what I mean? I'm not going to be Cowboy Cuddy out here.

I'm not doing Cowboy Cuddy, all right. But you have fans, me included, that would follow you anywhere. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that is a. Because you guys trust me as an artist. 100%. You know I'm going to guide you into something fucking dope.

And I'm ready for wherever it is. But I think you have that, I think your fans feel that way about you. You know what I'm saying? They know you're going to guide them into something dope. You're going to put them on to something. You're going to introduce them to new sound that they haven't experienced before. Yeah. You know?

I was so nervous to put out pedal rock black because I was like, like, I just don't know if I have the musical chops to like take people on this journey. Okay. So let's talk about pedal rock black. Yeah. You worked on this album for a year and a half, right? You played every instrument, like you said. I know this place, because this is, I was in the same place when I did Speeding Bullet. Totally.

Right? It was like, I want to do, I feel like I have a very specific thing I want to say. Only I can do it. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. So kind of talk to me about like your approach with that album and your goals and what you want to do.

Man, for so long I felt like I was, I wasn't reaching my potential as a musician. Like, and I don't know, like talking about that privilege before, like having that cultural acclaim and even just the privilege of being born into the family that I'm born into, I felt like there was a level of like milking my potential that I wasn't reaching. Right. And that would like make me feel just like darkness in my heart and a sense of sadness

and a sense of like inadequacy, like not living up to like this beautiful gift that I've been given. And so I really challenged myself with pedal rock black to just really be like, okay, like, you dedicated your life to this shit. You dedicated your life to music. Walk to walk. Play that fucking piano. Play that guitar. Arrange this music.

Like put your hands inside of the spirit and the science of music. Yeah. And I felt a sense of obviously inadequacy when you have people like Esperanza Spalding, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, hiatus coyote. It's like there is a sense of like, well, what am I going to pick up the guitar and what? I'm going to play the piano and what? You know what I mean? And so that album was really a catharsis in kind of healing that childhood trauma of like,

I'm just not the musician I thought I was. I don't have the chops like I might have thought I did. And kind of just putting myself right in that mirror and being like, we are going to heal that and fill that dark place inside with light and with the knowing that I can actually do this. You have to prove it to yourself. 100%.

And so Petal Rock Black was really like, every day was a freaking therapy session. with me and me. There were tears. There were me just being like, fuck this shit. Like, I can't do it. Like, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen.

Like, I just don't have it. You know what I mean? But then you sit back down at the guitar. You pick the bass back up. You listen to it again. And you're like, okay, like. There's a way through this. Yes.

And it really is a practice of, like, returning back to yourself and not thinking, I got to be Esperanza Spalding or I got to be hiatus coyote or whatever it is. It's like, what I really is. What I have to say and how I play the instrument is beautiful and I shouldn't be comparing myself to my favorite musicians. I should just be inspired by the work that they have put in and be able to take from, take inspiration, but then molding it in a way where no one can pinpoint it. 100%. In your music. Exactly.

Nobody's going to listen to your music. You can be like, oh, there's a little bit of this in there. A little bit of this. It's going to be like, this is a mixture. Like, I remember I did an episode on the show, and I mentioned that Jadicus was an inspiration from me that I molded all my earlier raps around Jadikis. 100%.

And people were in the comments like, man, I don't hear Jadikis and Cuddy style or whatever. And it's like, man, bro, just because I say I'm inspired by somebody, I wasn't like mimicking this guy. Yeah. I was taking stuff from him. And early on, I was molding. Because that's what you, when you're 15,

You have to have your role models. You got to start somewhere. And that's how you learn too. Because no one ever sat me down and was like, okay, Cuddy, this is how you count bars. Totally. Like this is 16 bars and this is eight bars and like your verses are 16, your hooks are eight. This is song structure and all that. Like no one taught me that.

You learned it from listening. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. So, but my thing has always been like, you're not going to be able to pinpoint the inspiration all the time. 100%. You know what I mean?

Like it needs to feel like a concoction of a mixture of things that you just can't put your finger on. Yeah. I mean, a while ago, I want to say maybe last year, Gambino said something to me that was really interesting. He said, when you have such a strong spirit and such a strong sense of your own personality, when you try to emulate someone else, it's automatically going to be something that no one has ever heard before. Like me trying to emulate Elliot Smith,

that's going to be something completely different. Like, I couldn't sound like Elliot Smith if I tried. You know what I mean? It's like because my sense of self is so potent that even me trying to do something like Elliot Smith is going to be completely different and new. Yeah, like day and night was supposed to be like my version of mind playing tricks on me by ghetto boys.

But two different vibes. Your spirit came in and was like, we're going to flip this. Yeah, we're going to flip it and put a little razzle dazzle on here. Exactly. You don't put a little Cleveland swag on this bitch. Yes, yes, 100%. 100%. Oh, man.

Yeah, I just think that it's important to do, like to take the path that you're taking. I think I want to see a lot of other artists take this path. I think with social media and just. There's so much that could be a distraction for young artists and things that they see online. 100%. Motivations can get, you know, fucked up. I mean, the content creation whole thing of like, it's really sad. Like, just the sense of attachment that the music industry now is developing to just, like, social media content is very, like, suffocated.

I knew I knew I needed to get off my label when they said, hey, we need you to give us something for TikTok. Yeah. I was like, oh man, I'm not renewing this contract. 100%. I can't wait until I drop free. Have ever seen? Have ever seen those memes of like Miles Davis or Kurt Cobain and like it says like imagine telling him he has to make short form content for the, it's like bro. It's like L-O-L.

Like when you put it like that, it's like, ah, that's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And that's pretty much the only way they know how to go about it. Yeah. You know what I mean? They all think about the viral moment on TikTok or something like that. And like my thing was like, you know, I felt victim to it. You know, I actually had like people on my team like, no, this could be good, Scott.

You should like, they were like, all right, you don't do TikTok. But like, if you did TikTok, like do it in your own way. Like do it in the way that fits you. Don't do like a stupid dance or some shit like that. Like do a TikTok. There's truth to that. Yeah. So I found a way to like promote free where it was like super authentic to me.

And we do have to adapt as well. I didn't feel like a dick watching myself back. Exactly. You know what am I doing? You know? But yet and still when I did that after was said done, I just felt like I fucking played myself. I felt like such a fool. that I fell into the trap.

I can see that, but there's also another way of seeing it as like, think about it. So many artists from the 60s and 70s having to make their transition into the 80s or into the 90s. Like that's, that was tough on a lot of people. You know what I mean? Somebody like, I always think of David Bowie because the way that he adapted, through the crazy changes was so him and so potent. And some people just tried to like, okay, now it's about synths

and I'm just gonna try to do that now. You know, but like as an artist living in changing times, there is an element of like, we do have to be open to adapting in a way that does feel authentic, but that becomes a part of the art piece. It's like how do I adapt with the changing times? How do I adapt with this like weird dystopian future way of doing music and still make it mean something and still make it something I can be proud of? Yeah.

That becomes like another layer of the art piece. Exactly. Exactly. Being in the business for 18 years and seeing how it's evolved since when I first came out. Totally. When I first dropped the albums, motherfuckers had to go out to Best Buy and Walmart and Target and actually physically buy the shit. Yeah. I mean.

Yeah. And I missed those days, you know. Those days were really exciting. Music was, music, I think, had more cultural value because you had to do something other than pick up your phone and stream something. And it meant more for the artist. Yeah. Because it was like, oh, we're mad on the moon one, right? I think I did like 104,000 first week, right?

Totally. And I remember thinking like, holy shit, 104,000 people like went out and bought my shit, like that's in their car, drove to this location. And intentionally. And intentionally bought that shit. Yeah. Like it didn't come up on a shuffle. They didn't put on a playlist. Yeah, exactly.

It was like, I'm getting this. Yeah, I'm making an effort to brush my teeth, put my clothes on, getting the car with my friends. And we're all going to pick up Kid Cutty's due album. 100%. You know what I mean? Like, that was the experience. And, like, I'm trying to figure out a way that I can bring that back in some way. 100%.

There's definitely ways to do it. I don't know. It's like the physicality. It has to be, yeah. It's, you know, there's a tactic. Yeah, yeah. And that's, like, kind of like what I'm thinking about when I want to do movies. Like, I know, like, some people are like, man, would you work with a streamer?

And I'm like, man, I'm kind of weary of that because I kind of want physical media. I kind of want people to be able to say, hey, I'm going to be able to say, I got the Blu-ray of this movie deck. 100%. It breaks my heart that there's no physical media of intergalactic. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That there's no DVD of Intergalactic that people could pick up, see behind the scenes.

It would be cool. Like you have these VHS. It's right. Oh my God, you have Willow. The VHS of Willow. Yes. That's crazy. That's really cool.

Anyway. I think, you know, people nowadays are really into vinyl. They're really into retro, you know, because I feel like, like the human spirit and our psychological state in a weird way is like craving that again. Yeah. Like people are always asking me for vinals of records that I didn't make vinals for or people. You know what I mean? It's like.

But does that make you want to go back and release vinyl? Yes. Yes. You know? Like you could go completely retro and be like, I'm putting my movie on VHS. Yeah. Why not? And it's like a collector's item.

And then you could do some shit where you can actually make a VHR. Yeah. And sell those. 100%. 100%. 150 bucks. Like that's cool. That's a bundle.

People would do that. That's a bundle. People would get that. Somebody's going to sell my idea. Watch it. You go see the VCRs for sale with the VHS pack. Watch. I'm telling you all.

People like those collector item kind of retro. You know, I think we're craving that nowadays. And, you know, I see people, you know, even with iPods. Like, I see people bringing out the old iPods. My homie literally had the, bro, literally a week ago, went to a show and the homie had a full, just like old Apple iPod. It was a brick, wasn't it? Yes, and just listening to the shit on the, and I'm like, we're like reverting back to like, we want that. You know what I mean?

Like, you want buttons. Yes. It doesn't always have to be touchscreen. Everything is getting two in the ether. We like a button. Yeah, you know. You know what I mean? It's like, my Porsche is from 2014.

I love it because it's a kind of. combination of touch screen and buttons. Hell yeah. It's right before they fucked it all up and made it all touchscreen. So it's cool. I got a little button here. My roof go down. Got this with the navigation.

I love that. I love that. I love that. I love it. Yeah. I want to talk to you a little bit about acting. Yeah. Because we got slime coming up, which we both finished.

Yes. Do you want to do more of this? I feel like we have not had you in this space. Like, I really want to see you like... I really love animation. So animation space is where you voiceover work is... I love animation. Like, Adventure Time changed my life.

Oh, yes. Stephen Universe changed my life. Yes. Anime, there's like an anime called Nana. Okay. That changed my life. I actually wrote an anime in my teen years that I really wanted to get made. And it just kind of...

kind of fell through the cracks. Like I wrote two seasons of a full animation. That's crazy. I have like just deep love for the art of animation and also like the music in the animation. Like there's something about the music in Adventure Time, the music in Steven Universe, that's very like specific and so in the world. And I love that you can make anything happen in animation. Like the one thing I really love about slime is that it has that anime feel and it's

like brown and black people are like taking the main stage which is something like I mean we have boondocks and you know that stuff which is amazing but putting it in like this futuristic world is like a horror yeah like action comment like there's some comedic moments too it's very funny doing the voiceovers with you was so much fun oh my god like I was like this this is not work this is just me hanging out with the homie like we're trying to get the shit done I'm like We were cracking up so much. It was really good. And I think those are the best sessions when you're in the room with the other person.

100%. Because we didn't do that for intergalactic. We had to do everything separate because everybody's schedule was crazy. So this is the first project I've done in animation where I actually was in the room with the other actor. Totally. And I was so helpful to just feed off the energy, you know what I mean? Yeah. This has been a dream of mine to be in an animation where black and brown people are.

taking the center stage and our stories are taking the center stage. And like when I got the offer, I was like, wow, like, this is literally exactly what I've been wanting to do with these amazing individuals that I would just feel so honored to be next to in this space and on screen with in like this weird world where everything is so fucking cool and like, yeah, just futuristic and I'm dystopian as well. Yeah. There are a lot of topics in slime that I feel like are like cultural commentary for shit that's happening right now.

For sure. You know, so I think people are going to be moved by that also. Yeah. Yeah. And you do a phenomenal job in the movie. Thank you. And as far as the music goes, I feel you, you know, and me and Dot are scoring slime. Yes.

And we already worked on a little bit of it. but we're really going to get into it once the animation is finished. Did you score Enter Galactic 2? Dot and plain pat scored at Galactic. Okay. So will this be your first? Yeah, my first animated project that I scored. Oh my goodness.

I'm so excited. Yeah, man. So we actually did a couple records. Benny X is going to be doing the soundtrack for slime. Oh, that's awesome. News to you guys. You've never heard that before. That's brand new news. Clock it.

So did Benny X. Beny X. Benny, don't fuck around. Hell yeah But we Started fucking with the score as well Because I actually like to Start scoring off a script To get the feel

Yeah It's all my movies I score Before I shoot Oh wow Like my directorial debut I had All the music before And I would just listen to it

In between scenes 100% To get you Wow Wow, that makes so much sense. And it's helpful because, like, you know, there's a really gnarly scene for this movie I'm shooting. I start shooting next week at the end of the movie. And I want to play this music to, like, get the vibe for people.

And I've been, the people, when I've been casting them, I've been sending them to score. Like, all right, so this is the music. It puts you directly into the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's dope because it helps the actors understand, like, oh, this is the tone of this. Yes. Like, this shit is, okay. I see what was happening.

And that's a part of the reason why acting for me, I don't know, it can feel a little bit, like music is so immediate, and it's so emotional, and it's so, like, right there, accessible. I feel like sometimes acting in a live action thing, for me, sometimes it feels like, like the emotion that I'm trying to capture,

it's not as, it's not as, like, easily accessible. Right. You know what I mean? Right, right. Yeah, and I think that's why sometimes I get a little bit wary about doing live action things. I think if, well, first off, it has to be the right thing. Yeah. Right?

If I wrote a movie for you. I would definitely be in that movie. And I know what type of shit you need. 100%. Because you know me also as a person. Exactly. You know. And I know what you haven't explored as an actor.

Yeah. Yeah. So I would totally go in and craft something that element. allows you to flex all these different muscles that you have in your wheelhouse. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's the thing.

It's just about finding that project. But it's like, you know, so hard to find these projects. It is. You know what I mean? Just. And that's one of the reasons why. You got to create your own. Yeah.

And like, look, somebody like me, like, I've been acting a long time, 17 years, you know. I have done a number of projects. Yeah. TV, movies. Big movies. Yeah. Small movies. I was just randomly watching an indie movie like a couple months ago and you, you're just

like the homie with the friends at the bar shooting the shit in this indie movie. And I'm like, I'm like, hell yeah. Like, yeah. Like, he's just doing it. Like, I love that. I never, I never let, like, for me with acting, like, I never let money motivate. It's, it was always just a fucking. dream and a delight to just do a fucking movie.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, you know, I found that some of my best experiences were on indies. Totally, totally. I'm excited for your film, just the creation of your own film projects. Yeah. Like, I don't think, I think you, so I don't know how long you're in town, but I need to show you my directorial debut. Please. It'll be done this week.

This week. Just coming up this week. It'll be finished. Color. Well, I'm going to be here. Okay. So just hit me up and I'll show up and watch it. That's because I got to have an OG come see.

You know, I'm going to tell me if this sucks or not. Before I show it with anyone else. I feel like your taste level is amazing. Oh, thank you so much. I'm not worried. No, it's a real story. It is based on my real experience with my real life brother. Wow.

I play a man who's an addict living on the streets in LA. It's 24 hours in his life. Whoa. So the whole movie takes place one day. Yeah. Wow. It's really, it's a heavy movie. And I can imagine with your experiences with addiction, I mean, like putting yourself in

that is like, that's deep. Yeah. It's, it was gnarly doing a lot of the scenes with the drugs. scenes. Yeah. To the point where I had to tell my producer, I was like, hey, I think we're good on the drug stuff. Yeah.

Like, we got it. We're good. Because it was starting to fuck with me. Let's move on. Because it was like, they were doing shit where like the camera was across the street. So the illusion was just too much. It was like I was really there doing the drugs. Yeah.

You know what I mean? On the curb in broad daylight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's one thing about live action movies that also kind of makes me a little bit like, ooh, it's like you've got to do the scene over and over again. Yeah.

And it's like that scene might be, that might be a gnarly scene to be doing over and over again. That's true. That's true. Like, there's a scene in this movie that I have coming out this fall, this horror movie. I had to cry in this scene. And I must have been crying for about three, three. four hours that day. Just over and over. Just like heavy crocodile tears.

Totally. And it wiped you out. And I literally in that moment, I had a newfound respect for any actress, any, any, any actress I've ever seen any horror movie where they're like. Screaming and. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm like, oh, my God. Y'all are on fire because I just did this shit for like three hours.

Have you seen, have you seen Nosferatu? Yes. So shout out to Lily Rose. Shout out to Lily Rose. Because there are some scenes in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. That I was like putting myself in her shoes.

Of like, so I need to do this over and over and over again. And I need to, like, it was like beyond me. Like I was like, this is like really intense. You know what I mean? Like the amount of like emotion that it takes. And physical, like physical fatigue that you go through. Yeah, I took, like, the longest nap when I came home after that day of shooting. Yeah.

Like, I felt like, you know, when you were a kid and, like, you were crying because your parents, you got into it with your parents. Exactly. You just cry. You're exhausted and you just wake up. Like, oh, feel so wiped out because I just cry for like three hours. 100%. You know what I mean? That's how it feels.

Yeah. It takes, and that's why I can't imagine like somebody doing an entire movie of that shit. Totally. Every scene is like you're to tears. Yeah, yeah. So I just had a newfound respect for anybody that had to, you know, do anything intense, like anything like that. Like any actress that had to do an evil dead movie or, you know what I'm saying? And the content as well.

Like, um. Yeah, the subject matter is super dark. Yeah, the subject matter, like historical movie. also like shit that's like really dark in history like ooh yeah I think about that too it's like that's just on your mind yeah like every day you go home and it's like I'm supposed to play this character you got to you got to leave it on set exactly and you got to come you got to try you got to leave it all set yeah but I think like the the movie I did last summer was like a really gnarly movie really fucking gnarly but I was able to leave

that shit on set. Yeah. And I was even coming into a dark house. Totally. But I cut on the lights. Yeah, exactly. And I rolled up my joint. Yes.

And I put on some happy music. Yes. And I was like, do, do, do, do it. I'm getting myself back into my- joint. And then I go to bed. Yeah. And I'm just like, it's a new day.

And I'm totally like, because I have heard about actors not being able to cut it off. No, my dad has specifically said no to certain roles because he felt like the energy was too heavy to be bringing into the house. Yeah. Like, nah, I'm not even going to touch that because that's like, I don't want to be coming home to my family in this, in this, just in this. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And that's like a deep one. Like, you really have to embody, you really have to embody it if you're doing it, if you're doing it right, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. What are you curious about that you haven't really tapped into? yet. So I've been watching these like CGI renditions of prehistoric, like prehistoric animals. Okay.

Like off of like the fossil record. So pretty much like scientists will come in and like they'll analyze these fossils of like these animals that lived like millions of years ago. Okay. And it'll be like national geographic but like 10 million years ago. And I'm just really interested in like how that stuff is made and just like the scientific like this earth has been around for a long time. You know what I mean? And humans haven't been here for that long.

And I'm I'm just so fascinated with just like all of the twists and turns that evolution has taken and just how we're here today. And like insects used to be the. size of cars. Like, when the oxygen in the environment was so high, like insects, like caterpillars would be like the size of like like a bus. You know what I mean? So yeah, it's wild, like completely and utterly wild. It blows my mind like completely out of its place. That's one thing. That's one thing I'm really curious about. And I'm also really curious about how to just like my guitar chops, like how to get to a place to where I'm always just trying to

maximize my sense of like melody. Well, you're really good playing live and singing at the same time. Thank you. That's something that I don't have that. Like I've done it a couple times and it was a disaster. I don't think it was a disaster. Okay, maybe it wasn't a disaster. Yeah, you probably felt like a disaster.

Everyone else was probably like, that was amazing. I never seen him do that before. I don't know. We'll have to ask online or something, put it in the comments on this post. Hey guys, do I suck when I did speaking toward the heaven or not? Tell me in the comments. But yeah, that's something I'm really curious about, just trying to, in what way can I maximize my technical ability on my instruments. That's actually the main thing I'm curious about.

Prehistoric animals, yes, that was a thing. That's definitely a thing. But the technical relationship with my instrument is like, it consumes my mind on most days. I love it. I love it. With the guitar with me, I kind of had like very simple goals. Totally. I was just like, I just want to learn power chords.

100%. You can do a lot with power chords. And that's what I made that whole album with just power chords. Yes. But I haven't played the guitar in years and I want to get back into it. It's an instrument that requires, I mean, every instrument requires a lot of patience. Yeah. But the guitar.

A lot of, but it's, the guitar is like, it's like one of the hardest instruments to play. I, you know what I mean? It's really fucking tricky. And like, I'm, I'm someone who just taught themselves. Totally. So I've never had a lesson ever. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So I'm just coming at it with intuition. Very raw. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And, and the first time I had to play. play live and like I was like looking down every every time the chorus chain I'm like oh sing and look at the crowd and nerves play a huge part yeah I've gone on stage and been so

nervous that like now my hand is sweating now I feel like I can't even play it I feel like I can't even hit the court yeah man it's nightmare fuel playing like I've seen you play live and you're flawless you do it like with such ease thank you but I've just practiced a lot that's what I'm saying that's why When I say you guys inspire me, I see shit like that. And I'd be like, damn, man. Like, Willow got to teach me how to play live. Oh, my goodness. I got to get my shit together, man.

Yeah, man. It's the way you do it, it just seems effortless. If I had a guitar on the mic right here right now, you'd be like, I wrote this song yesterday. It's just a little doodle I wrote called. A little doodle. Going to the park. Yeah.

Smoking a joint. Yeah. Literally. You would play it right now. and then it would just be a live acoustic set. Like, that's the type of, like, superpower I want to have with a guitar that I don't have yet. Yeah. You know, and so it's just really ill that you say that you want to just master this instrument.

You could have it. All it takes is sitting in a quiet room for at least an hour a day. Okay. That's really all it takes. But sometimes you're like, no, I just want to do something else. I don't want to sit here for an hour and just play the same thing over and over again. I not just realized this, but it's really interesting, like, how playing an instrument will physically change your body.

So this hand, the muscle on this side of my hand, is, like, pretty normal. But on this hand, if you feel it, it's like, it's, like, way harder than the muscle in this hand. And so it's like, I can feel, I can feel, like, all the stretching that I've been doing, all the, like, putting my, It's like, it physically, it's like I got a little muscle there on my hand that I don't have on the other hand. Well, I got, I got guitarist wrist because you know how your guitarist wrist kind of like sits like this? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, my stand like this.

Totally. My wrist is like guitar wrist. 100%. What's one thing you nerd out about that might surprise people? Okay. What do I nerd out about that people wouldn't know? I mean, I've got physics equations he added on me. I've got Einstein, I've got Einstein Rosenbridge equations he added on me.

I've got black hole equations added on me. I've got particle duality. Like whole equations. Yeah, particle. I've got particle duality equations tattooed on me. I don't know if people would be surprised by that, but I would think so. I don't think people would be surprised by that either. Sorry to, sorry to disappoint.

People just be like, it makes sense. Maybe not. Hopefully somebody will be surprised. What first got you in the animation? Adventure time. Definitely. Like, as a teenager, as a pre-teen, I would sit in my room and watch Adventure Time and be so, like, inspired by just the creativity,

but also there are a lot of Adventure Time episodes that are, like, fully Buddhist, like, teachings, like, fully ascetic teachings in Adventure Time. Yeah. And so, like, I would read books by Osho, for instance, and that I would watch Adventure Time and be, like, why are these, like, oddly similar? Like the messages that O'Sho is talking about and how Finn and Jake are just like experiencing life and their values in their adventures that they take, so spiritual. Man, I feel like Adventure Time is that type of show where the writers have either had to do at least like five rounds of acid. A lot of psychedelics.

Like and smoke like a ton of weed. Yeah. It's like, all right, guys, I know we're making a kid show. But I know adults that want to watch this shit too. So you've got to make it cool for them. Yeah. I mean. Yes.

And those are always the best shows, man, where it's like the parents who have to sit around at home and see it on TV all the time, they can enjoy it too. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. What's your favorite anime Mount Rushmore? Anime Mount Rushmore. Ooh, okay, this is tough.

Attack on Titan is a really deep one. All right. It's a little political. Attack on Titan is a little political. There's a lot of like informative messaging in Attack on Titan. Nana. I really love Nana. It's about two girls who are like completely different,

but they end up living together and one of them is in a band. And like all like the cool homies in the band, they're always getting into antics and stuff. That's dope. But yeah, two very different animas, but I love both of those. Nice. Yeah. Nice.

Favorite designer, it could be. be art, fashion, anything. Favorite designer. Would you... Okay, so Studio Ghibli, the guy who, like, is the creator of, like, Princess Montanoke, my neighbor Totoro, spirited away. His sense of just visual art is just completely sublime and so beautifully done. And it's like every...

It's like the most cinematic, like the cinematography of animation. It's like the highest, I would say. It's like the highest cinematography of animation. Wow. The highest, like every single one is like a watercolor, beautiful art piece, every single frame. I don't know if I would call him a design, but you do have to design those frames. You do have to, you know what I mean? So, yeah, Miyazaki.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. How do you unplug? Sometimes it's hard for me because I'm so. so cerebral all the time. My mind is just going, going, going. So I legitimately have to, like, maybe put on, like, some type of, like, atmospheric

music and really force myself to just, like, sit in silence. Like, I really have to force myself to sit in silence and, like, stare at a tree or something just to get my mind and my body to a baseline of, like, relaxation. Yeah. You know. Is that where the song Sit and Silently came from? So in a weird way, sitting silently actually comes from the feeling of like being in silent sitting meditation and all of like the anxiety that comes in when you're really faced with like what goes on in your mind. Yeah. Without any substances, without anyone else around. Right. Without any distractions.

It can be a little weird, you know, it can be kind of scared. The education always fucks me up. Yeah. I don't think I've, like, I don't think I've mastered it at all. You know what I mean? When I was in rehab, we were trying it and stuff. And my mind is, like, all over the place, you know? 100%.

Like, when I was trying to, like, tune out, it's just like, what about this? What about this? And then you start thinking about shit that happened in your childhood, that one time that was so traumatic. And you're just like, okay, I'm sitting here in silence. And I feel like I'm, like, fighting demons. Yeah, exactly. Just sitting here in silence.

It's like you're at war with yourself. internally. But that's that that's kind of the point. Yeah. You know. To confront yourself. To confront yourself and to have some acceptance also. I think a lot of people think that meditation can't change. Yes. A lot of people think meditation is about just shutting the mind up. And I have a little hunch that it's also about accepting where you're at. Yeah. And accepting the darkness with the light and being able to sit with it. Yeah. Without judgment.

And so that's why the song is kind of like, the song is kind of creepy and kind of weird. You know what I mean? But I love it. You know, that's right in my wheelhouse. Exactly. I love a trippy shit. Yeah.

All that weird stuff. Favorite live performance you've ever attended? Ooh. I gotta say, I saw Esperanza Spalding. I was just like, wow. Like, I was just like, she's just like an alien. She's an alien. It's like nobody writes music like her.

Nobody has chops like her. It is absolutely, it's like I'm at the Olympics. And I'm also at a shamanic ceremony. Like how is that even, like how does those two go together? I don't know. But it feels like I'm at both of those at the same time. That's so dope. Yeah.

That's so dope, man. And what's your moonshot, your biggest goal or dream? My biggest goal or dream would probably be to reach a state of embodied egoseness before I die. I love it. Yeah. I love it. That's probably my biggest goal. It's a long shot.

We got to work towards something. Yeah, I got to work towards something. I got to have some kind of North Star, you know. Willow, thanks for coming, man. This is great. Thank you. This has been awesome. I love talking with you.

Love talking with you too. I love being in the, is it the warehouse? What is it? The Big Bros. This is the Big Bro Attic in my mind. I love it. Yes. I love it so much.

So you're in my world. Thank you for having me. Thanks for coming. Hey, thanks for coming through the attic, y'all. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on social media at Big Bro Cutty. Until next time, love yourself. Take care of each other.

Dream on. Peace.