Big Technology Podcast - Andrew Callaghan of All Gas No Breaks Goes Independent

Episode Date: June 9, 2021

Andrew Callaghan is the force behind All Gas No Breaks, a hit YouTube show that featured Callaghan putting a mic in front of people and just... letting them talk. Callaghan's recently gone independent, taking his unique interviewing style to a new home, Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan, and building a substantial following there. Callaghan joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss why his alternative to traditional news is hitting a nerve, what he's learned about the American people from his travels across the country, and the factors that led to his decision to strike out on his own. Check out Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-AQKm7HUNMmxjdS371MSwg

Hello and welcome to the big technology podcast, a show for Kuleta-Dun's conversation of the tech world and beyond. Joining us today is the man behind the hit YouTube series, All Gas No Breaks, which I found to be a fascinating look into the heart of America, and who recently set out on his own with the new show, Channel 5 with Andrew Calli. ahead. Andrew, welcome to the show. Thank you, man. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, it's great to be back in touch. We were talking in the middle of, you know, the height of all gas, no breaks, and it's great to see that you're doing this on your own independent. And I'm excited to hear your perspective on what's going on with the new thing. For sure. So before we get into Channel 5, I'd love to hear a little bit more about, or maybe you could introduce our listeners or, you know, or refresh people's memory about what all gas no breaks was, how it began and sort of what you were trying to do with

it? So all gas, no breaks began as a kind of memoir storybook that I wrote about my experiences hitchhiking across America when I was a teenager, like when I was 19. I would just like hitchhike mostly in the south and in the West Coast by myself with a recorder. I would interview like deadbeats, runaways, various like outlaw types about their life stories and, you know, triumphs and tragedies and whatnot. After a long time, I decided to propose the idea of an all gas, no brakes, video show that I would do on Instagram and YouTube. So I found a company, a production company called Doing Things Media. And I said, yo, if you guys buy me an RV, I'll go out there and make, like, crazy.

Honestly, I first thought it would be, like, a road trip show. I thought it was going to be, like, me focused on, like, gas station characters and landscapes. I don't know what it was going to be. Then we decided I was going to go to all the craziest kind of events and explore different subcultures around the country, like furries, flat-earthers. crowdboys, anarchists, all that kind of stuff. I'd wear an oversized suit for most of the time. So this company gave me a $45,000 salary, and they bought me the RV. And I signed some paperwork, and I had a great couple years.

Yeah, and it quickly became a hit. Yeah, we'll get to the falling out, I think, in the second half. But the show became a hit. And one of the really interesting things I found was that you move beyond just going from the Flat Earther conferences and started going to, you know, some real news events. Yeah. Yeah, you want, maybe you can talk a little bit about how you expanded. Well, I think right around the time of the COVID pandemic, I'd say around last March,

when things really like kicked into high gear as far as the lockdowns, that's when I started covering things that were vaguely political. I started with the coronavirus lockdown protest video, which was my first political video was like I was covering on, it was the California State Capitol in Sacramento interviewing conspiracy theorists about COVID-19. That was a big hit, and I was like, damn, maybe I can do more than just funny

Instagram and YouTube content. So then when the protest movement kicked off, that's when things really went to high gear. And it was during the protest movement after the George Floyd murder, I started covering protests and riots in Minneapolis, Portland, and then Seattle. And yeah, the show just took a political turn.

And it wasn't like I went out of my way to be like, I'm going to make this a daily show style political show. I just saw things happening and I saw a lack of news coverage. So I said, why don't we use our platform to give people voices in different walks of life? Right. And it wasn't that the news wasn't covering these events. I mean, the news was on it in the way, you know, as much as it could be. But it was doing it in the way that the news was used to, which was with a little bit of distance. And I think what was great about what you did was you got right into the thick of things.

and you didn't try to constrain people into salad bites. You just put a mic in front of them and let them talk. Yeah, I think that the mainstream American news cycle is locked in this just like a horrible divisive cycle of punditry where they're like right wing talking head, left wing talking head. It's the same people who are going to propagate the exact same narratives and sell ads and make money regardless of what's going on. You know, like if anything happens, you know what Anderson Cooper and not Lemon

they were going to say and you know what Tucker Carlson and Sean Hay, going to say. And they propagate this division because, you know, it's profitable. All these news companies are owned by the same people. I mean, the same people who own Vice own Fox News. It's basically just a news media matrix that exists to drive us further apart while the rich get richer. So I wanted to kind of break that. Yeah, but I think what happened with you was that you got into the thick of things and you came in with a different format and people really gravitated towards it. Yeah. In my format, it's actually the easiest format.

I mean, just going in there and not saying anything is actually really easy, but no one wants to do that because they have people controlling their voices. I mean, most journalists are controlled by higher forces, you know, higher reps who tell them what sort of narrative to push. Well, I mean, that might be one thing. I think another part of it is that our culture right now rewards certainty. You know, people don't like to live in the gray area. It doesn't get distributed the way that, you know,

something with black and white that plays to identity might get distributed, you know, on social media. And so generally people have found comfort and certainty and finding a worldview and then trying to look at everything through that prison. And I think what's interesting is that, like, you know, we've talked in the past. I think you've mentioned to me that you're left to center, but you're still willing to like, you know, hear people out even if they don't agree with you. And I find that's really interesting. Totally. I mean, it's too bad that, you know, like, if you are, it's hard to explain, but if you believe in one thing, you have to believe in a package of other things, right?

So if you believe, if you're pro-choice and you're pro-gay marriage, like I am, then it's like, boom, you're in, like, the Biden camp. Like, you have to vote that way. Then if you vote that way, you're also in support of, like, Middle East shit that Biden's into, and you're in support of mass incarceration. and all that stuff that Biden and the Clinton camp do. So basically, it just sucks like, yeah, I guess I'm center-left socially, but I'm definitely not in support of the Biden administration. Right.

And yeah, and I think that it's interesting because we talk about certainty, obviously certainty about the way that you view news events. But I also think there's been this other current that's occurred inside the U.S. recently, maybe the globe, which is that we view people with certainty as well. You know, a Trump voter must be A, B, and C. A Biden voter must be D, E, and F. And there's complexity to people. I think you portray that really well, where once you start to let somebody talk, you start to learn that they're not easily, you know, able to be packaged inside a box. And then you start to learn a little bit more about their life experiences and where they come from and they don't fit neatly into this package. What do you think about that? Yeah. I mean, I think that especially, like I said, the way we can see media, it's easy to, say, to loop Trump supporters or Biden voters into a prism depending on who's telling you about these people. But the reality is that people are complex and people are stuck in misinformation bubbles and all walks of political life. People are falling victim to fake information and they're surrounded and bombarded with propaganda at all times, everyone. I think social media is destroying our society. hopefully that we can last more than 50 years from now. Why do you think that?

It's just putting everyone in information bubbles, man. I mean, look at the way censorship has affected the way that people talk online. I mean, it used to be that you could argue with people online about, you know, people won't act like they're just removing the fringes from the internet. No, they're removing almost a majority of Trump conservatives off of social media platforms, pushing them further into deep internet holes where they only see each other and they only talk to each other.

Meanwhile, the same thing is happening with left-wing cities too. The echo chambers are just getting more dense and it's like this infinite mosaic of bubbles and echo chambers. And it's funny because I bet that when the internet first came around, they thought that it would make us a more well-informed public because we'd have exposure to so many different worldviews

and pieces of information. I mean, you have the world at your fingertips if you have a smartphone. But it's actually, I think, made people like dumber and have less informational literacy. And yeah, it's just, it's troubling. It's like you can, no matter what you think, there's a million people online

who will validate what you think whenever you decide to think it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that's sort of what playing back to the original theme that I had with certainty. And I don't think that there's a grand conspiracy to keep conservatives off of the social platforms or that, you know, liberals won't be,

willing to listen to anybody else. But I do think that it is very easy to get sucked into groupthink today. And the social media platforms definitely help propel that. Well, it's not even a conspiracy to keep conservatives on social media platforms. It just is what's going on. Say more about that. If you go to a Trump rally, I mean, this is what I started noticing is that every person was like, I've been kicked off. Like, that's their main beef. And I think that this loss of faith and tech as a social institution and free internet as an idea being a limited place. I don't know what the effects are. I mean, you know, for example, if you're involved in a, like, reopen Colorado,

reopen California Facebook group to end the lockdowns, you most likely get banned for medical misinformation. You know, do I think that harmful conspiracy theories, like, you know, some of them, like there's baby eating pedophiles who drink children's blood to stay young forever and have lizard bloodline. But I think that limiting the reach of that is good. Yeah, probably. But if you believe that there's some big giant conspiracy out to silence you

and you get silenced, and so do all your friends, what are you supposed to think? Yeah. Well, I do think that when the social platforms went to ban QAnon, for instance, that did sweep out a good portion of conservatives. So there's something to that. Yeah, and you wonder what the, I guess we'll see, maybe, maybe good, maybe bad. We'll see what the long-term impact is.

Because, I mean, if you get pushed off of mainstream social media platforms, I feel like that validates what you already think as far as the big conspiracy, and it might even harden your beliefs and make you more militant. Yeah. On the other hand, I mean, we'll see. Yeah. But on the other hand, you know, the social media companies probably gave rise to the fact that so many people believe there is this cabal of pedophiles trying to take over the world.

So it's a push pull for that. But what happens is they offer. And often focus on the users and not on the product itself. And so the product keeps working the way that it's always worked. But then they end up suspending it. And then there you go. You're in that position. Right.

There's no right position for those tech guys. You know what I mean? Everyone hates them. Yeah. It's tough out here. Do you work in tech too? No, I mean, I'm a tech journalist, but I'm in San Francisco. Oh, so, you know, reporting on this stuff out here.

And, you know, I understand. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Salesforce tower, basically from my window. Yeah. I was going to ask you, can you see Salesforce tower from your window? Because that's the metric of proximity to tech giants. If I lean all the way out, yeah, I can get almost a glimpse of it.

And I do really find it to be a monstrosity. And there's a screen on top of it. I'm sorry to all the Salesforce listeners. But there is a screen on top of it, which they can customize and use to send messages out to the city. And sometimes they'll have the eye of sour on there. And I think it's a little bit. you know, too close to science fiction. I'm not a big fan of it.

I mean, San Francisco is dystopian. I mean, look at the inequality that's propagated. It's with the city failing to combat gentrification and provide for their homeless people. I mean, I can't think of a place where you can have the richest people that close to just like the largest homeless encampments in the country. It's fucked up, man. Yeah, no doubt. And it's sad. And there's also, there's a big willingness out here to say it's other people's fault and a reticence for fault.

and a reticence for folks to actually come and jump in and help, which is an issue. Yeah, seeing those Black Lives Matter science and pride flags on some of the, what, $6 million row homes in the Mission District, that's something out of a dystopian science fiction novel. It's depressing. Yeah, I mean, I would say, I don't think, you know, being wealthy should disqualify you from participating in social protests, but it can't just be. you know, holding that flag out the window. Like if you want a more just society, you have to look for the economics as well. What I'm saying is if you're wealthy and you're from a rich family, especially if it's

like Bay Area Tech money and you just, you don't live in Walnut Creek, you don't live in Piedmont, you don't live in some of the beautiful suburbs that you could live in Palo Alto. You decide you want a little more urban living. So you move somewhere like the Mission District, which is a historic immigrant neighborhood and you decide to take over the block. And then you think that the optics band a day that you're going to put is some kind of flag or signal in front of your, thing. I don't really care what you're doing. You know, I mean, that's like, that's colonialism. Look, no doubt. I think that at the end of the day,

we talk a little bit about how people are complex, right? And, you know, and there's the certainty that we use to judge people. But I would also say that, like, it's important in this world, I think, to be the full package, right? Like, it's about the sum of actions, not about a tweet that you put out there or a sign in your window. It's about how you live. So I think they should move their complex asses back to Palo Alto then, right?

Yeah, I think there's something to be said for that. Also, like, I think that one of the things that we, you know, we can also look at is the fact that a lot of our system, we've talked about this on the show a lot, a lot of our system is meant to preserve what those in power have. And it's very difficult to crack through that. because of the systems that, you know, have been set up. So I agree with that. And that's the depressing part is you can talk about it, but a lot of this stuff, it just goes and goes, man.

It's the machine. And I'm not like some sort of, you know, anti-capital is like, but I'm saying it is like this machine doesn't stop urban growth and redevelopment. You know, and once it goes, it just keeps going. I'm from Seattle right now. I grew up in this neighborhood Capitol Hill and it's like unrecognizable. Right. It's like, I'm not going to say around that.

It's gone through a ton of change. Yeah, and you did a great video from the, Capitol Hill was Autonomous Zone. Chaz? Oh, yeah, yeah, jazz. I didn't even put out most of that footage because it was just too dark. Oh, what did you see there that you didn't put out?

Well, I mean, the main thing is like that, you know, the chop Chaz had like, I think it was three and a half weeks. And this is how most autonomous zones go from what I've heard. The first week is like everyone's got the spirit of the revolution. You know, there's like lots of seminars and reading and there's clear organization. The second week, it has more of like a Coachella vibe, you know, It's like a festival. There's drum circles and fire spinners,

and it looks like a scene from Burning Man. The third week, and I'm not sure why this happens, it's just hella tweakers, like all like the meth smokers to set up tents, and it's just like a shit show, and then the drug dealers come, and then... And there was a couple of shootings out there. I was there for those shootings. It was really blocked up.

I witnessed that. And, you know, and the day after the shooting, I remember I was walking back to chop, and this, like, white girl, like, in full, like, anarchist gear comes up to me, and she goes, don't go to the park. I go, why? She goes, there's a gang war going on. And I was like, oh, there's a gang war going on. Okay, where the hell are you from? I go to the park. There's no gang war, but there was like dudes, 14-year-old dude was fucking AK-47s and people smoking meth on the street and doing heroin and sidewalk. You know, and then the cops broke it up. But I think that autonomous zones need some sort of central leadership to exist for more than their genesis provides. Because, you know, you got to have someone being like, you know, we got to fucking figure this out. what do you think you know so people point to things like chop or chas or autonomous zones um some of the rioting that you've you've documented and they say that you know if this is coming from the left

and there's a message of overhauling the system it's not going to win many allies and what do you think about the fact that that can turn people off and um how does that sync with the political goals of the movement well i mean first of all i just want to say the cops really gave the thing to the protesters in Seattle. They gave it on purpose. They wanted people to do that. I mean, that was the most fortified, strongest police station in the city that they gave it to them.

Were you able to find that out through reporting or how do you know that? Oh, yeah. All of my, everyone I knew who was there. Everyone was dreaming, even the city reported it. I mean, the cops purposely abandoned it and were like, take this because they want people to do some dumb shit so they can be like, look, they're looting and burning. And, you know, only a small percentage.

of protests have that element of destruction but you know you know on one hand I understand it like in Minneapolis I understood it a lot because it was like this is the expression of the people this is the first time they're seeing this this imagery and that's what

you got to do to get people to listen initially I understand the purpose of it you know just as many people came out to protest the Trayvon Martin murder but there was no looting and no damage and no one gave shit because the reality is that the mainstream consumer public seems to care more about property damage than lives lost by police.

So initially, I think that it can be a good tactic to get people's attention. But I think that if their attention has already gotten, I don't see the point of continuous destruction. You know what I mean? Like months after the murder, the shit going down in Portland where they're just breaking everything, talking about the militant decolonization of the American plantation. It's like, you know, you guys maybe can do this shit here, but you leave the city, go 15 minutes outside of the suburbs.

You're in the hotbed of militiamen and all that shit. So I have mixed opinions on it like a lot of people do. But I'm not like in support of fucking up small businesses or into it. Right, right. And not only that, it becomes very easy to clip, you know, just the actions of a few people, put it on TV and use it to discredit a full movement, which... And that's exactly what happens. And I did like your portrayal of what was going on in Minneapolis.

Because, you know, I think instead of running away from what was going on, you stuck a microphone in front of people's faces and said, what do you feel? And we don't even hear your framing of it. So I kind of like that. Yeah. I think that like, like, you're just supposed to pose what you do with the news clips a lot. Oftentimes there's like somebody in one of your video, I think it was Minneapolis one where there's a news camera that's far away from the action. you were just inside and you start filming the news camera and you're like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, hailed a moment second, I'm filming the burning.

And you never quite get a chance to hear from people. And I think this is, I know, I'll just wrap this and I'll let you respond to it. It's one of the plagues we have in the country right now. Well, there's a lack of empathy. You know, I'm not saying people need to support one another, you know, in terms of every single cause. But, you know, we very rarely will put each other, put ourselves in each other's shoes and would much rather demonize and I think that's an issue sorry go ahead Andrew yeah I agree with you a high percent you know and I you know I feel the same way about almost all political causes

I mean just just common ground and mutual humanity seems to be something that we've lost in a very short period of time and it's social media propagates that yeah I'm right exactly and I'm writing about this this week it will be out on big technology but the social media does have a way again of taking a multi-dimensional person, turning them one-dimensional, and having everybody believe that they know everything about them. And generally, it's just wrong. And, you know, people don't care about the cost of being wrong about that, which is an issue. Yeah. And people are scared to have differing opinions than the hive that is around them. I mean, for real, like, as much as Trump supporters talk about, oh, cancel culture, you know, left-wing group think,

a lot of them, like, are scared to have different opinions from, like, the Trump crowd. I mean, if someone in there, they don't really have disagreements. I feel like they'd be scared to be like, hey, I actually do support abortion or like, there's tons of shit that they would not be able to like say without being ridiculed, ostracized from their community. And we're like, like, that's why like, that's why all these like gentrifier, like white people are so scared of like not, not appearing like as radical as possible. Like, you know what I mean?

Like in San Francisco and Seattle. Oh, there's a disconnect there for sure. They just want to like, they feel so guilty about what they're doing because the deep down, they know, like, in places like Bushwick and the Mission District and, uh, in the West Oakland, the people who are moving in and, uh, gentrifying the area, they know, like, what they're doing. So they feel like they have to be like super hardcore on social media with the infographics and with the, just trying to look as hardcore as possible. It's crazy, man. And, oh, man. Oh, it's really hard to have that. Yeah. We've talked about that in some degree in this show where,

um, the Democrat coalition right now is, you know, in some ways, the people working in Amazon fulfillment centers, you know, who are judged by automated systems and fired, you know, if they have too much time off task, they're voting in blocks together with the people who they're delivering packages to. And something about that feels unsustainable. Right. Yeah, I agree. What have you learned about the American people? I mean, one of the interesting things that I find, again, talking about how people are complex, people are multifaceted. It's interesting how often people contradict themselves on your on your videos so it went in your new channel it's called channel 5 with andrew call on you can watch it on youtube um you went to a white lives matter rally

uh and you asked some guy you know what's a great white food and he goes fish tacos totally unironically you know not understanding come on this is a mexican food and then there was somebody at the um you went to uh the courthouse with the while the derrick chauvin trial was going on And there was somebody who told you, they told you, I am against the prison industrial complex, but I want Derek Chauvin to rot in jail for the rest of his life. So I'm kind of curious what you learned about the American people and their complexities. Yeah, I mean, I don't even know.

Like, I wish I could tell you, like, I just, I document so much and I travel so frequently that I've never really had a moment to sit down and think about a lot of this stuff. I mean, I think that, like, after I'm done filming for, like, six more months, I think I'm just going to, like, go into the desert, like, a low laptop, like a Dell laptop, and just write about all the things that. I don't know. It's hard for me to process.

I'm 24. I've been doing this since I was 20, you know? And, yeah, man, this is so much going on. So many different currents running through. But I will say that people seem afraid to connect with one another, you know? I feel like it's propagated by news media and social media There's just this

People just are trying to get One another to demonize the other side Of the political spectrum so bad And it's so sad Because the real life implications Really mean disunity You know And I know that we weren't ever really unified

Why does it have to be 50-50 It doesn't make any sense Like I'm not trying to sound like a conspiracy theory But why is it like this? Yeah Well, I also want to ask you a question because you're among the people. You know, we've talked a lot about how, you know, we can blame the news and we can blame social media, but how much of this is people's responsibility on their own?

You know, it's at the end of the day, it's not the social platforms or the news media that's making statements or, you know, demonizing each other. I guess they play into it. But oftentimes we end up getting sucked into it, not you and I, but, you know, the people. And I'm curious, you know, is there a level of personal. responsibility here as well yeah i mean i think there definitely is you know and i think about that all the time you know are you were to just are you supposed to just say that people have very poor information literacy or are you supposed to say that they are bigoted and they're just dumb or they are i don't really know i think it varies from person to person i mean i think certain people certainly

are hateful and they latch on to hateful ideology that they because they don't like people But I also think that most people think they're doing the right thing in the world. Most Trump supporters think that they're saving America. Most people in the streets, like rioting and destroying shit, believe that they are ultimately creating a sort of space for conversations that will better the country. I think there is, I just don't think there's that much hate. I think that there is a lot of brainwashing. But I think people in their day-to-day actions think that they're doing the right thing.

Everyone, not everyone, but I would say maybe 80 to 90% of people do believe that they are doing something that will be for the common good eventually. Is there anything that gives you hope? No. Just flat out, no? Okay. Wow. So where do you think this goes? I don't know, then.

But I'll be there. Yeah, you for sure will. Okay, why don't we take a quick break and then I'd like to talk you a little bit about your new channel. Hey, everyone. Let me tell you about The Hustle Daily Show, a podcast filled with business, tech news, and original stories to keep you in the loop on what's trending. More than two million professionals read The Hustle's daily email for its irreverent and informative takes on business and tech news. Now, they have a daily podcast called The Hustle Daily Show, where their team of writers break down the biggest business headlines in 15 minutes or less

and explain why you should care about them. So, search for The Hustled Daily Show and your favorite podcast app, like the one you're using right now. And we're back for the second half of the Big Technology podcast with Andrew Callahan of Channel 5 with Andrew Callahan. Andrew, welcome back for the second half. Glad to be back. I want to talk a little bit about the business side of things

and what it's like for someone like you who's just starting out and sort of the potential landmines you might encounter. honors. So we talked a little bit in the first half about your relationship with doing things media. They gave you $45,000 a year salary. They gave you the RV and they said, go, how about it? And why don't you pick up the story from there? Well, I mean, first I just want to say that I have no problem with doing things media. You know, I don't want people and go out and say, fuck them or whatever. It's like, just follow what I'm doing next. Because at the end of the day, yes, I signed a really shitty full management deal that limited my creative freedom not creative freedom yeah fucking limited my freedom as an individual

everything i did was owned by someone else for a long period of time and even to the say i can never access any of it it's not mine i put my heart and soul into something for two years and still someone else owns it and someone who i have disagreements with and i don't i'm not friends with so they own all gas no breaks yeah right so what does everything mean everything i've ever done during those two years they own wow does it extend beyond all gas no breaks or I mean, that's all I did for two years. So, I mean, maybe if I would have made a song and put it on YouTube, they don't know it too. But, you know, they had everything.

So, yeah, they gave me the RV. Let me do whatever I want. I mean, experience-wise, up until things really took off, it was fantastic, you know. Yeah. It was almost fully funded by Patreon for a long time. What was your question? My question is, yeah, what ended up unfolding with your relationship with that? Okay.

Why are you on your own now? So basically, you know, it was great for a long time. I wasn't getting any percent of the profits from Patreon, YouTube, merch, anything, up until the show went into out of the red and into the black or the green news. The show started making money about six, eight months into it. So for a while, it was them coming out of pocket. They took a gamble in the first place, started succeeding. It started coming in.

So then they offered me 20%. And bear of mind, I was producing the show almost entirely by myself, filming, researching, editing. They were just assisting with feedback here and there, but mostly merchandise, customer support is what they offered. And obviously promotions through their various pages. They'd repost me, and that would drive traffic to the all gas, no breaks page.

So after a long time, you know, things took off. I was only making 20%, but I was happy with that because we were making $100,000 a month on Patreon and the merch drops would make a couple 250,000 in the day on a merch drop. Were you selling merch-wise? Were you like selling replicas of your big suit? No, it was mostly t-shirts, hoodies, action figures, stickers, that kind of stuff. So dude, I was making like $25,000 a month.

You know what I mean? So from where I was standing, I was like, dude, this is awesome. I mean, I was 22 years old. I was like, this is great. You know, I didn't need more. then i would say around last november december we started working on a movie and uh this movie hasn't been announced yet but it's with absolutely which is tim and erics production company plus a couple other partners we've yet to announce the movie but i'm excited to announce about it was

started working on the movie started working working on the movie and that that required you know seven days a week i had to work on that movie all the time we had a new rv i mean we had no free time Was it like a long-form format of what you were doing for YouTube? Okay, cool. A little more upgraded, a little more serious, a little more political, but it'll be announced soon. We'll talk about that when we get there, you know, because I can't say much without being under fire. The movie, people were really selected. So basically, I'm working seven days a week doing this movie.

And, of course, the movie is going to come out in a year or something like that. That means I can't make as much content for Instagram and YouTube and Patreon. So that means doing things media got less money. Patron started dropping, views started dropping, simply because I could not make any more content. I was too busy. I was overworked beyond belief after two years on the road, segwaying directly into a seven-day shoot schedule for a movie.

And I'm only saying this all because these details leaked in the New York Times and everything like that. I don't want to experience the company. But, you know, they started pressuring me more and more to make capital C content, make this make that so I said to them hey listen man I'll make more content but I need more money at this point I mean you know I was happy with 20% when I was living on the road

but I'm working on a movie full time if you want me to work two jobs I can't be getting this low amount of money for you know and plus their partners on the movies I'm like I'm making money for you and they explain that you know it was more lucrative Are you getting paid anything extra for the movie Yeah but you know nothing like I was making for the digital show But for me it's not about the money. It's amazing, by the way, that the YouTube was, and Patreon was making more than

a feature film. Right. But maybe the future film will make more money when it's released. But at this point, I mean, I was making, I didn't care about the money, man. It was a passion project for me. And making a movie with Tim and Eric, I was like, this is amazing. I want to devote all the time that I have to this. You know, in the digital show, obviously, I love it, but I've been doing it for years. I don't know. I wanted more if I was going to be 20% is not good, man. Yeah. It's not about getting rich. It's about being. compensated fairly for the work that you're doing. Right. And 20% is not fair. So I said, hey, I'm happy to keep making the show, but I need more.

I needed something like 50. They said, nope, things got, they just wouldn't budge on that. And, you know, so I stopped making digital content. I stopped, but I really couldn't. I mean, I could if I tried super hard, but I mean, I would need to be compensated fairly and incentivized to do that, which I wasn't. So, I'm, you know, making the movie all the time, and I'm not making content. And, you know, eventually they fired my two best friends, Nick and Evan, who started the show with me and filmed, you know, I remember they fired them. And then I was like, I got out of my contract. And then they told me that if I didn't produce two pieces of content by a certain date that I would be fired and that they'd find a replacement host to carry on what I built. And, yeah, I just got terminated.

And that was it. Yeah. And I mean, I looked at the page before we recorded. There hasn't been a single video on all gas, no breaks after you left. Right. And I don't think you're easily replaceable, Andrew. I think you have some real talent.

And it's difficult to, you know, just substitute anybody in and try to have them, you know, immediately adopt a format. Yeah. And I was trying to say that. But, you know, in a way, you know, for a long time, it was really painful, you know, to not to be so disconnected from something that I when I walk in the street people look at me and they say all gas no ranks and it's become like a second name for me yeah and just to know that that's something that I worked so hard on and put everything into that I that is not mine and

whatever will be it was hard but it gave me more incentive to be like okay now I'm going to make my own thing using some of the e-commerce knowledge that I learned from working with doing things media and at all gas no breaks to make a sustainable completely independent show so now like we're fully like I own 100% of the rights and the masters to everything that we make and everything goes back at channel 5 at channel 5 yeah right and I love the I did love the title all gas no breaks because essentially it's let me put a microphone in front of somebody's face and just let them go all gas and I won't put the brakes on like typical news so yeah totally and I like channel 5

even more though because it's it's kind of an evolution of what we were doing like I'm not trying to make a bunch of videos of people screaming anymore I want to like have like a news vibe to it. I'm going to get a news van like a decal old school NBC van. Oh, amazing. I'm going to like change up my outfit a little bit. I get like rain jackets with Channel 5 on them. I got a lot of stuff planned to make it feel different. A lot of the videos right now are just kind of like Augusto breaks videos because I'm just trying to like retain the old audience and bounce back. But I'm going to try a bunch of new shit. I'm going to do streaming and like TikTok and all that. Yeah, it wasn't lost on me by the way that the name

moved to Channel 5 because I saw that and I was like, oh, Andrew wants to do, you know, more news. and I think that's a good direction. I love how you run by another news reporter and you go, hey, are you Channel 6? We're Channel 5. That was funny. Yeah, in the Miami video, yeah. Yeah.

And so you, when was the termination from doing it? I think it was last March. And so you pretty quickly ended up getting your crew back together. Are you working with your friends again for this new venture? They're my best friend. Yeah. The people who made all guys. No Bricks. We live together and we're best friends as we were kids. So it's like firing them isn't going to do anything. And like we are we are the heart of that show. And we will be the heart of whatever we do next. So less. You're working together again. Yeah. Lesson learned, but lesson had to be learned. I mean, I don't blame doing things media at all. I have nothing. I have nothing against those. No doubt. Well, it does. I mean, you know, I think it's classy of you to say that. But it also.

this goes to show sort of what it's like to go out and start in the different roadblocks that could occur for some people who's talented and wants to go out and make it on YouTube. Right. And there's no checks and balances when it comes to the ownership and management of all these new digital platforms. Like you see all these TikTok kids get exploited way, way worse than I did. Yeah. I mean, it's not like the movie industry where you have overtime sheets and you have stuff to really compensate you. You can be worked to death if you're owned by it. an Instagram talent management company. I was not work to death.

I worked myself to death. They didn't make me do anything. Creative-wise, they let me do whatever I want. But they are a company and they have to make money and they make money by other people making, like I said, capital C content. And I think that that idea that art and creation is another person's capital C content income creates a fundamental problem for independent creators. Right. And so tell me a little bit about how you get the crewed back together. So you call your friends up and said, I want to do this, you know, something similar, but on our own without a management company. And then, you know, I imagine you're going to have to get cameras and a new van. So how does that operation come together without the support of an established company? I guess you must have some of your personal money into it.

Yeah. Well, the thing is we already had a lot of money. We had some money left over. I probably had like 15,000. dollars left over by the time all gas no breaks ended so we just went to bn h photo in new york which is a really awesome story i want to check out it's in midtown it's amazing and we just spent ten thousand dollars we got cameras microphones and it wasn't like i even had to call up they're sitting right next to me and they were like let's let's do this and then we booked the flight to Miami and just got it in probably a month or two later right and that's your first video on channel five is of Miami spring break yeah it is amazing what happens when you put a microphone in front of those spring breakers.

They do self-incriminate quite quickly. They really just go for it. They can't stop them. They do. And so I think one of the interesting things is that you were able to build back your following fairly quickly. You look at all gas, no breaks. The YouTube page is followed by 1.5, 1.7 million people.

Last check, I had Channel 5 is over 500,000 people that have followed. It's right around 500,000. It's been a month and a half. So, yeah, I think it was a pretty good comeback, given what we went to. Yeah, it's amazing. What was it like to see everybody start to come to your new channel? I mean, I recently discovered it, but I imagined the YouTube algorithm that, you know, played some role in getting people back to it. But it's, I'm not even the YouTube algorithm.

YouTube has been like censor. I don't know. People just saw what happened to me and they wanted to see what I, what I, people were like rooting for me, like an underdog. They wanted to see what I would do next. And I, you know, I wasn't going to lose. Right. And so with the new channel, are you making money on it now? Or what's your plan?

Or you're making ad money? Is there any other way that you're? No, no. All of our stuff's demonetized. We only make money through Patreon. But you're demonetized through YouTube? I mean, most of our videos get demotized. Yeah.

And that's where YouTube says basically this video goes against some of our standards. We're not going to allow creators. That's almost every video we ever made. It's been demotized as YouTube. I mean, I think that some of the things that people say in the videos are ridiculous, but it doesn't mean that you're going out and reporting on them should be demonetized. Our first video. Something that's not brand safe.

That first video, Miami Beach, Spring Break, was taken down for medical misinformation for an entire week to someone said, fuck COVID. What? Yeah. And they said they didn't want to get vaccinated. They got taken down for a whole week. Right. There was a whole group of people saying they didn't want to get vaccinated.

It's like, if these social media, I mean, I mean, I understand, look, I understand where social media companies sometimes need to draw the line. But the thing is, when you don't allow viewpoints to be represented, you just play into the conspiracy theories that, you know, and have people go, like you mentioned, to places that are even worse and more groupthink oriented, and then you end up creating an even bigger problem. Yeah, that's like, you know, Q and on came from A-Cham.

people only went to 8chan because 4chan started censoring the political boards you try you follow the rabbit hole into the the internet's darkest most unhinged conspiratorial corners yeah you can trace places along the way they got censored and and basically kicked off of different social media platforms but andrew even the creator of 8chan wants 8chan to be moderated in some way right I agree with that All right, Andrew, let's wrap on this. We talked a little bit about how social media has, you know, divided people, media has. But it's also, the social media algorithms in particular have helped you, you know, reach so many people with your message, which is different. So, you know, I'm curious how you think about that. You know, do these social media algorithms have a point of view, given that they've helped you rise? Or, you know, are we now finding that they actually do have some room for some more nuanced takes on what's going on in the world? That's a good point. I mean, I think that social media knows what you like, obviously.

Like, I think that's how it's helped me, you know, especially because I started pretty non-politically with entertaining content. I think people that like similar stuff, like maybe Sasha Baron Cohen or Nathan Fielder or Daily Show stuff, they would be, or Tim and Eric, or whatever, would be kind of directed my way based upon their preferences. So that way, I think the social media algorithm is great because it allows you to find so much stuff that you think is hilarious that you may have otherwise not been able to find or have access to. I'm happy for the algorithm in the way that it's made me, been able to find other creators and link with people across the world. Like, I don't think social media is bad. I think that when you get locked in a social media news bubble and become politicized, that's when it's bad.

And I think that's when the algorithm needs to be worked on. Otherwise, it's very helpful and you can say transcendent. Yeah, for sure. And that's a word I would use to describe your show. So thank you again for making it. It's, you can find it by searching on YouTube Channel 5 with Andrew Callahan. Yes, yes, you can. Channel, yeah, Channel 5 on Patreon also.

Five bucks a month, that's where we post all of our stuff early. If you want to fund the project, get some uncut, uncensored episodes. You can check it out there, but for most stuff, yeah, just YouTube, Channel 5 with Andrew Callahan. Terrific. Well, Andrew, it's always great to talk. Thank you for being a friend of the show, a friend of big technology. And I can't wait to see what you do in the future. It's been wild so far, and I think you're really hitting a nerve.

so thank you i appreciate you having me on man yeah looking forward to seeing what's next all right till next time my friends okay all right thanks everybody for listening thanks to nate guattany for doing the editing road circle for hosting and selling the ads we will see you next week here on we're going to see you now podcast by andrew peace