BigDeal - #05 $2 Million A Year to Stay Young & Live Forever (feat. Bryan Johnson)

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

🚀 Main Street Over Wall Street is where the real deals get done. Join top investors, founders, and operators for three days of powerful connection, sharp strategy, and big opportunities — live in Austin, Nov 2–4. https://contrarianthinking.biz/msows-bigdeal Can one man change the course of humanity? Are we unknowingly shortening our lives? Codie Sanchez interviews Bryan Johnson to explore the path toward longevity, his distrust of the brain, and the truth about food and medicine. The episode closes with Codie sharing her experience at Bryan's house, uncovering what it's like to use some of the machines being used to test the limits of human life. Want help scaling your business to $1M in monthly revenue? ⁠Click here⁠ to connect with my consulting team. TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Intro 03:15 Steal my Rich Friend: Bryan Johnson and his grandest ambition 14:30 What we know about food and medicine is wrong 19:42 The two things that impact Bryan’s depression the most 21:32 Side note from Codie 33:32 Being a slave to emotional needs 42:31 Deal of the Week: Bryan Johnson, from Braintree to Blueprint 53:13 Free yourself of a prison of desires MORE FROM BIGDEAL: 🎥 ⁠YouTube⁠ 📸 ⁠Instagram⁠ 📽️ ⁠TikTok⁠ MORE FROM CODIE SANCHEZ: 🎥 ⁠YouTube⁠ 📸 ⁠Instagram⁠ 📽️ ⁠TikTok⁠ OTHER THINGS WE DO: 🫂 ⁠Our community⁠ 📰 ⁠Free newsletter⁠ 🏦 ⁠Biz buying course⁠ 🏠 ⁠Resibrands⁠ 💰 ⁠CT Capital⁠ 🏙️ ⁠Main St Hold Co⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Every animal, every plant, every human, it's don't die every second of every day. I told everyone I was going to do something that would change the course of humanity. When I was living in Ecuador in extreme poverty, came back to the U.S. and reality had just changed for me. Your brain is creating your reality, but your brain is not trustworthy. And so for me, the rule is don't trust your brain. How much of the things that we are told about food and medicine are a liar wrong? Most of it. I'm going to punch through all the noise, but then we're going to put all the science into me. It's kind of insane as an intelligent species that we would willingly do things that would shorten our life or cause death.

He has this wild lab that's like in his house. And so you'll see on the interwebs that I played around with it, there's one that you sit on and it's a, uh, it tightens your pelvic floor and your rectum. Oh my God. It's so you sit on this stool. Brian Johnson is just not the same as everyone else. He was severely depressed when he founded, scaled, and then eventually sold a company where he pocketed about $300 million. He created a helmet that tracks his brain waves and actually how old his brain is. And that isn't even actually the craziest part about this guy.

He created an entire anti-aging protocol that runs his life according to the algorithms that he and his doctors have determined. He actually doesn't care about how anyone now or at all sees him. He actually only cares about the future. And in fact, he shares just about all of this on the Internet, even how he's thinking about sex and all the things that he is going to measure from them. But every time he shares something about his sexual routine or how he injected Botox into his penis, somebody responds with something like this.

Yeah, but have you had sex lately? So I first got connected with him when I said, well, first they'll laugh. Then they call you crazy and then they ask you how you did it. And we started DM in back and forth. And what Brian said to me resounded, that discipline is. freedom and freedom is superior to enslavement by pleasure. That actually is the happiest that he's ever been. So after all of his commercial success, he actually started another company, which was a $100 million fund to invest in things to progress the ability for humans to never die, or as he says,

don't die. And then founded Colonel, this helmet that he has here that allows him to measure his brainwaves and how old it is. What's fascinating is his routine that he talks about, 11 pills every day wearing a baseball cap that shoots red light into his scalp, collecting his own stool samples and monitoring nighttime erections. He even gets his family involved with his son at one point transferring his blood into his father to see if he could live longer and doing the same thing to his dad and actually lowering his dad's biological age. But I'm not sure any of that is actually the most interesting part about Brian. The most interesting part about Brian is why he's doing all of this and what you and I can learn from it. And so if you right now are thinking about how do I change my life,

It's not the tactics that you're going to get here. It is the mental frameworks that will allow you to do whatever tactics you want to change your life. This is Brian Johnson, the man who thinks that you do not actually have to die. Do you have a personal grandest ambition that is the most important to you? And is it living forever or is it more than that? What is the most ambitious undertaking that our species could undertake. That's the zero-th step is, you know, don't die is the most played game by every human, by every living being on every animal, every plant, every human, it's don't die

every second of every day. And so it's played more than capitalism. It's played more than religion. It is the most played game. And then above don't die, then we choose whether we want to make money or be adherence to religions or whether we want to do our various things. But it's all premise on don't die. Do you think that you're attracted to it because it is the most played game, which means that you have the most competition, which means it might be the hardest game? No, I think it's interesting because my education is primarily from biographies. And I like reading throughout history and looking at a person in their time and place, and they identified something impossibly hard to do. And then they're able to see the thing

and then do it. And at the time, people thought they were crazy or that they were unintelligible to that time and place. But then their thing became inevitable and normalized. And we just forget, that it was ever crazy in the first place. And so if you take that notion and you apply it right now, then if you say what is the most ambitious, craziest thing we can imagine as a species? And one is don't die, but two is,

what is how big is consciousness? We know what it feels like to learn and to crawl and walk and run and to fall in love and to have heartbreak. And we have these certain things we know But just like if you pose this question a few hundred years ago, how big is reality? You would have gotten an answer that would have dramatically underestimated the size of the microscopic world, the size of the universe. We're living in the fraction of what real reality exists.

And so I wonder if the same question could be applied to our consciousness. How big is our conscious capabilities? Are we living in a fraction of its ability? And as we start applying tools of artificial intelligence and biological engineering and add new chemical interactions, could we be on the verge of this opening up a frontier of experience? We just haven't, we can't imagine. Do you think that a lot of people don't ponder questions like this because they never achieved post-economic success? And so the fact that you, you know, sold the company for $800 million, achieved what most people, that would be the most interesting thing, about them would be that. And I think a lot of people think when I hit X, I will be Y, which is

happy, fulfilled, whatever. And so you hit that and then went on to this next thing. Do you think you would still be asking these questions if you hadn't been post-economic or really rich, in other words? Yeah, I mean, it's the game I've wanted to play since I was 21. So I made the goal. When I was 21, I told everyone I was going to do something that would change the course of humanity. I mean, I'm 21. I'm naive. Like, what do I know? And like, that's ridiculous to say as a 21-year-old. Like, how's that even? But that's just what I cared about. And it's what I wanted to do. And I didn't know what to do. So I said, I'm going to make money first. And then with money, go out and try to figure out what to do. So it has. It's been something I've been working on explicitly for 25 years.

I have this other mentor that I've had for for a few years now, Bill Perkins, that I was zero. Yeah. And it's so interesting because I think one of the most impactful things you can do is a young person is get around people who make your brain sort of expand to a point of discomfort. My thinking is so much smaller than yours. And for most people, they're barely like, they're barely getting by when somebody tells them that they could even achieve a millionaire status, or they could be free, or they could have a six-pack that almost seems like too far. Was there some moment where your brain flipped like that, that you remember? It was when I was living in Ecuador in extreme poverty, came back to the U.S.

and reality had just changed for me. And why? After being among them, nothing mattered to me except the contribution I could make to the species. I didn't care about making money for money's sake. I didn't have aspirations of buying a big home or an expensive car. I just wanted to improve people's lives. It was just this burning desire. It lit and it's never gone out.

It's just gotten stronger. And it honestly feels like it drives me. Like even when I don't, it's still there and it pushes me past my own comfort. It's an undescribable relationship of like what is happening inside of me and then how does that manifest with what I'm actually doing. So if you were going to try to replicate that experience for somebody else and to make them think bigger than they could even imagine and maybe get on a. health journey similar to yours. Are there words of wisdom that you would give somebody to try to kickstart an Ecuador in their mind? Yeah. I do this with my 18 year old, my son, to his credit. He is attentive. He's curious and he's willing to listen. And he's trying to figure out what game

does he play in life? Because he's wise in that he's listened that you're born into games in society. Like you're born as an American. You're born into capitalism. You're born into capitalism. You're born into like all these norms and then we learn them and they become invisible. So we don't realize we're actually in games we didn't choose to play. We're just playing it. And then we tried to become number one if you're competitive into one of those different tracks. And so what I've tried to suggest to him is don't assume that any game being played in society is your game. Extract yourself, evaluate them for what they are. I guess I would summarize that and say, Don't try to be number one, try to be zero.

And number one is like you're going for a rank. In a given game, you're trying to be other players. A zero is, this is like a different concept, zero's principle of thinking. You're trying to come up with a new idea, a new game to play. And so I guess the advice would be try not to feel overpowered by societal expectations of what they want you to play. So in frame, if you were in front of somebody, you know, who was, was unhappy in some way, shape, or form in their life, or maybe even happy, but really striving,

how do you break the frame? Do you go, do they first have to sit and even go, okay, well, here's one game I'm playing, which is, I'm in finance. Why are you in finance? Here's one game I'm playing. I'm dating somebody. Do you want to be dating somebody? What does dating mean? Like, how do you put that into practice? Okay, so let's start with the most basic thing. We all have thoughts. I learned this when I was depressed, that I would have thoughts that would say, Brian, life is not worth living, and you might want to kill yourself. In fact, you really do want to kill yourself. In fact, that's the only thing that gives you pleasure is the ideation of killing yourself. So in that moment, when I learned that I am not my thoughts, that my brain was generating

these observations and suggestions and even statements, that I could observe them and say, ah, thank you, brain, for making that observation. I know that you're not me, so I'm not going to act on that, or am I going to acknowledge that as truth? And so you are not your thoughts. And so in any situation, because your brain is creating your reality, and if you just accept them when they land, then you're going to play the game your brain tells you, but your brain is not trustworthy, absolutely not trustworthy. And so I know with my thoughts, in any given situation, I will disregard the first five or six thoughts I have on anything, because I know my brain's like just trying to situate itself. And even then,

it's going to have critical errors of biases and all kinds of assumptions. And so that's the very first game. And so because if you're walking into dating or career selection or something, if you can't catch the first layer, which is your mind is creating this false reality for you, then you'll be stuck downstream from that. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDMDM and Game Sense remind you to play responsibly, 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. What about the hippie-dipies in Austin where I'm located who say, but just listen to your gut. Your first reaction is right. How do you push back on that, or do you? it's a bit of a too simplistic of a rule to universalize. That is not to say that intuitions are not valuable. Like your body's legit doing computation, doing pattern matching. And you're probably able to generate wisdom that your conscious mind can't.

And so it's not that it's not good. It's just that it's a data point among a larger set of data points. And some people, I think, will encourage that go with your first decision and then don't look back. others will say be more mindful, it's probably individual. But there's not a clean answer because people are trying to simplify the complexity of life. And they're trying to say, like, here's a rule. And so for me, the rule is don't trust your brain. And then of course, if someone says, okay, how do I not trust my brain? That just made things worse for me. Now it's really problematic. But it invites you to start a new game. So for example, if you learn that there are, we have, each have 188 proven

cognitive biases. Their shortcuts our mind makes to try to make sense of a really messy reality. And so your brain is always making these shortcuts to help you make sense, but then the tradeoff is like it may not be as accurate. It's like confirmation bias. If I'm trying to find something at what I really believe about a new I concept, I'm going to find information. If it confirms what I want to believe, yep, I accept it. And if I find information that challenges my belief systems, I'm going to reject it. And so just being aware of that. And to me, to me, me, that's been the single most valuable practice I've ever maintained, is knowing that I cannot trust my own mind. Because once you start from there, then you can't trust others. You can't trust

institutions. So who can you trust? And that then becomes, that starts the game of like how to build the life you want to build because otherwise you're going to probably be disappointed in the process of trusting other forms of authority. It's so good. You know, I think what's interesting is you're obviously very smart. You sold a company for hundreds of millions of dollars. You've had a lot of traditional success as we would define it in today's day and age. And what else I think is interesting is usually when that happens, people then have a lot of opinions. And maybe they go out in the world and they try to assert those opinions on others. But you've actually done something very different. You've said, I am going to turn myself into a singular action of my opinions at this current state. And

I'm not going to try to assert it on others. I'm going to assert it on myself with like second or third order effects on that that are only really applicable to you. And one, I think that's really rare. You have questioned pretty much all medical institutions, maybe even food institutions across the U.S. And so I was curious, since you are in a living embodiment of, you know, watch what I do, not what I say, how much of the things that we are told about food and medicine are a liar wrong? Most of it. Yeah, most of it.

Why do you think that is? Everyone's trying their best to figure it out. I don't think it's because of malice. I don't think it's because pharma is some kind of evil, you know, group trying to kick over the world. They're doing their thing, and everyone is. Doctors are, institutions are, so I don't assign any malice. People legit are trying to figure out the right move. And so that's what I was trying to solve is there's so much confusion around health and wellness.

And I wanted to say, I'm going to punch through all the noise. We're going to look at every single scientific study ever published on anti-aging and lifespan. We're going to rank them according to the power laws. Then we're going to put all the science into me, one person, and we're going to measure me as the most measured person in the world. And then we're going to see what we get. Like what happens. And then I'll make the whole thing for free for everyone. Explain what a power law is.

It's where you get 80% of the best. benefit for 20% of the effort. If I want to be in good health, let's just say I'm not trying to solve an urgent problem. I just want to be in good health. Then the list of things you could do are hundreds. Currently, culturally, it's interesting to do like cold plunge or sauna or like celery juice or like take your thing. There's hundreds of things that you could do. And we try to say, we're not going to follow fads. We're going to follow scientific evidence. How do you punch through all the noise and say, tell me exactly what to do, according to the very best science, I'll do that. And so we don't want to mess around with things that aren't effective.

We don't want to do something because it's culturally cool. We want to actually increase lifespan. So we tried to really use science and measurement. We tried to basically make the best health protocol in human history and then make the whole thing available for free for everybody. What do you think in the next 10 years, to simplify again, we will look back on that we do today, and think, oh my God, that's the tobacco of today. Yeah. Is there one thing? Are there three?

What are they? Our entire reality. So, yeah, this is my prediction. So just for context setting, let's imagine we travel back in time to 1870, and we can whisper something in their ears. So we say there are these new ideas about these microscopic objects that cause infection and potentially death. they're called germs. Your eyes can't see them, but they actually exist, and you can do things to

stop them, like wash your hands and have other kind of hygienic practices. Now, if you're in the 1870s, you're going to say, that's stupid and that's nuts. If you're open-minded, you may say, huh, okay, tell me more. Now, it turned out germs are real. They actually do cause infection, and there's hygiene practices that help you increase your ability to survive infections. And so, if we pull the thought experiment forward and we say, let's say the 25th century can whisper into our ears, what do they say to us? What do you think they say? I think they say you're in the eve before the creation of super intelligence. And the intelligence you're creating is growing at a speed faster than you can comprehend. That renders your ability to predict the future to zero.

you cannot see. You're up against a wall of fog. Now, this has been the first time that we've ever had this experience because Homo sapiens have always said, I can look at the past and see how things have been. Yes, there may be discovery like germs or like penicillin or the computer or the internet that may surprise your inability to predict. But generally speaking, the future is somewhat predictable because things change rather slowly and like to some degree of predictability. That's no longer the case. We can make guesses on what we think. the true characteristics of intelligence may be, but really we don't know. And so for the first time in the history of homo sapiens, we are challenged in saying anything about the future, including

what we want, what we like, what we dislike, what we prefer, what our ideals are, what our morals are, what our ethics are. We're just, we are no longer going to be the authority. Now, people are going to, like, fall on multiple sides of the spectrum. People say, we are going to tame AI. We're going to control AI, we're going to build the world we want. I can't imagine a situation where we humans are still the architects of intelligence in some duration of time. Now, before you were able to have ideas this big that have repercussions for generations, you talked about it there for a minute, but you have been public about being extremely depressed, suicidal, and at your lowest, and building a huge company to spite all of that, what change? What, what change?

specifically that you think could be replicable for other people. Yeah. Besides the zero-eth principle thinking. It was so easy in retrospect. For 10 years, I tried everything to fix my depression. Like, you name it, I tried it. For 10 years? For 10 years.

And then I did two things that fixed it. I left my church and I got a divorce. And those two changes just made it evaporate. So it was environmental and it was content. So if you were to give advice to, let's say, your kids or the next person, before almost any of the blueprint, is it get your power of place and community right and your person or partner, right? Like, do you think those are even more fundamental than the health aspects? Yeah, or I'd say if I could speak to myself, I would say, and I was trying to help myself problem solve,

I would say, what do you feel paralyzed by? And once you identify that, then what is the strength you feel that this thing has upon you? Like in that moment, leaving my church, my religion, like my existential existence felt unimaginable. And leaving my marriage with my three kids, I was like an all-in dad. I worked really hard. And so my identity was so built up into that. So those things felt impossibly hard. to break. And so how trapped do you feel and how impossible hard do they feel to break? And if you can

identify those two things, you probably can put your finger on, the thing that's potentially responsible. Not always. This is for my case, but that definitely was what kicks out of this next phase of my life. And so others are just genuinely in a really bad spot. And for them, I would say, try your very best to get your basics right. Like go to sleep on time. Like make sleep your number one life priority. do well on your diet and exercise and just try to get the basics in place as your number one life priority. Probably has the most powerful starting point change. Quick little side note here, those two things hit home like a gut punch. I was married before, got divorced, and my religion used to be finance at a company with a bunch of people who had ethics and morals that weren't

aligned with me anymore, but I couldn't figure out why. I used to think that you just felt sick all the time after you ate it and that it was normal to not sleep very much. And then in fact, you could be in a relationship and fight all the time and have issues with alcohol. And then I quickly realized when I got divorced and I got out of that company that that's not normal or it doesn't need to be your normal. And so despite us going into a bunch of tactics and specifics on how to do this from a health perspective, what resonated with me is what if the most important thing we do is just who we choose to partner with for life and what we choose to pursue, whether that pursuit is religion or that pursuit is our company or that pursuit is a set of values. If we can get the values

and the who right, maybe all the rest can fall into place. Yeah, you know, when I was talking to my husband about interviewing you, he likes to talk back about when I was in finance and he was like, you looked really different. You know, I had sort of more bags under my eyes. I was taking red eyes nonstop. I really wasn't sleeping very much. I didn't at all value the idea of sleep. And I really didn't eat very thoughtfully. I drank way more than I should have.

And so he always likes to remind me that, like, you know, he's made me younger, which makes me giggle. I think you're right. You had a quote the other day in a newspaper about sleep that I thought was interesting and about its correlation to sort of death as opposed to progress. I think a lot of entrepreneurs think, I'll sleep when I'm dead. You only need four hours. Let me take a stimulus. You know, get up at 5 a.m.

What is your thought on that culture? Yeah, it's martyrdom culture. And this is, if you want to try to reach sobriety of thought, anyone in life, like you and I right now could both say a thousand things about right now. We could talk about the politics. We could talk about world affairs. We could talk about business. We can make so many observations about this time and place, the dramas that are happening in the world. So that's a valuable thing to offer insight as it relates to here and now.

The other way to think about reality is to say, what does the 25th century observe? And that has this really nice effect of washing away all the noise in this moment. Just like we think of the 15th century, we think 10 things happened during that entire century. 99% of what happened is washed away. like we don't care we want to know about the big advances that push things forward and so when you take a question like what is current culture around sleep and you know hustle culture and things like that you can try to approach a topic by in the bubble of this moment but if you seek clarity of thought in the 25th century and that's when i come back to the 25th century is going to say you're about to give birth to

superintelligence none of your silly game matter anymore. You need to re-architect society around this new philosophical structure of don't die. The only objective is that intelligence continues to thrive as part of the galaxy, but your games of martyrdom are basically a death cult, and you normalize to it and you can't see it. Brilliant. You've talked about a lot of different ways to decrease your blood pressure to a level of an 18-year-old. So if I kind of zoom out and look overall at people like my father and most people who are struggling with blood pressure, this is very tactical. But what would you say to them? Is the answer just go and get pharmaceutical drugs? You can use drugs, yes. You can also

significantly improve that through diet, sleep exercise. And usually when these kinds of questions come up, it comes back to the basics. You can do more esoteric expensive therapies. But, I mean, the headline with Blueprint is that it's $2 million a year. It's not. It's like $1,500 a month, which includes your groceries. It's just expensive for me because we measure. It's that quantification, which is so expensive. And the research. But the actual doing it is very low cost. And so, yeah, diet, sleep exercise, what people already know, it's not sexy, and it's very hard to do. And that's why I think most people just don't, they don't do it. Yeah. And it's hard for companies to make money off of it, which means. that the incentives and structure to sell you on it is also in the same way there is quicker fixes. That's right. Yeah. Who's making money when you sleep well? Yeah. I always, exactly. Not very many people. I mean, actually, your employer does. They just don't acknowledge it. That's true. Yeah, it's much easier to acknowledge the person that stays longer. I'm guilty of this as well, as opposed to what is the actual

output level. But that really comes from a society not measuring. That's right. And so, you know, why do we like work hustle culture because it's very hard as a leader of a company to measure every single employee with a KPI to their ROI to the company. That's actually hard. In the same way that why does Blueprint cost $2 million for you because you're actually measuring and categorizing everything so that you can verify $1,500 a month is reasonable for somebody else. That would be a better headline that the New York Times would never write about you. Exactly. Yeah, for sure. I mean, look back through history. How many times do we look back and do we say, like, oh, that culture was so on point.

You know, like, almost never. We look back and we say, like, they're idiots, or, like, how do they not see this? Or how primitive? Or, like, we make these really harsh judgments as if we are enlightened creatures and they were these primitive animals. But we're just a silly.

We're just blind to it. And so you fast forward a little bit in time, the future is going to see us as silly. And if you can take that humble acknowledgement, that there's no, highly unlikely that we've reached the apex, of intelligence. And it's most likely that everything we do is just absolutely erroneous in so many ways. Yeah, you had a tweet that fucked with my mind, candidly, a little bit, which was about money.

And it was frugality saving, investing, planning discipline, admirable money management. Why is it done? Wealth is immortal. Possibilities of our longevity are shifting. Maybe our thinking will shift too, which made me start realizing, oh, why do we value money? Because we think it last beyond us, but we do not believe inherently that health lasts beyond us. Ipso facto, we put less value on it. I don't know why, but that really opened up something for me. What else would you say on that? Yeah, we are a species that craves immortality. We do. We crave it through our children, through money, through legacy. We crave it through accomplishments. And I'm suggesting that true immortality or don't die may be the replacement

for all these of the games we've been playing, that there's a new reality in front of us. Yeah, you don't have to leave your name Rockefeller on the building of a college campus if you can, in fact, continue forward. You do that because you don't want to be, we all want our life to have meant something because I do think in a lot of ways Hobbs is right, like nasty, brutish, and short. Exactly right. And so if that is what we believe. believe to be true, and why wouldn't we spend time trying to make it all make sense? Exactly. And this is why these ideas are so provocative and why they generate so much hate is that people have these knee-jerk reactions and they're defending all their life choices.

Because to realize that you've been playing a game your entire life that is about to change and you may start from zero, just like everyone else, is a hard. hurtful thought. And so instead of confronting it and being open-minded to it, you want to bury it like we do with all these things that are uncomfortable. And that's why I think that people can't even, the rage I get directed at me is unhinged. And I think it's, I don't think people even realize why they're so mad. But it's not about me. It's about their situation, their life decisions, and this is not blaming them. This is just like being humans hard. and confronting new ideas is hard.

And I'm trying to point out what I think is going to be obvious in the future when they look at this moment. Yeah, I want to close out with one last question here, which was you tweeted about certain acts that we take now today you think of as committing violence against ourselves, which I think is really powerful. Because when you assign words like that, then actions can change. What do you mean by committing violence against yourself that's different than how most people might? except for the people these days who say words are violence, at which case none of this is relevant. Yeah, it was a thought experiment I did that what would, a century from now, what would they say that society had done to change reality? And so we as a species have been moving towards increasingly less violence across everything.

And I was suggesting that a reasonable continuation would be that right now we commit these acts of self-destruction, like we overeat or we drink or we stay up late, we miss our bedtime. And these things increase our chance of death. They increase our speed of aging and they increase, you know, probability of disease. And it's kind of insane as an intelligent species that we would willingly do things that would shorten our life or cause death. And we justify and we say, well, we live only once to live fast, die young, so we have all these really pretty stories and justifications, but they fall short in the context where the future's

at. And so I basically said, I'm going to say any action that I take that increases my speed of aging, going to labels an act of violence, and I'm going to shift it. And so I'm trying to basically model out what is the future of being human, and I'm trying to live that. If we try to explain the future in like Blade Runner, you go to 2049, you see flying cars, you see droids, but humans are identical. They have the same thought processes, they have the same minds, they're the same ticks, they're the same, like playing the same games. And they do that because it's the only way to relate a human to another human watching the movie in the early 21st century. And what I'm trying to say is we need models of the future of being human. And I'm trying to show that

tangibly so that we can start being the evolution that we imagine. Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids and I want to give back to the Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com.

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And what I think is fascinating is now being on the inside and walking around your house. and chatting with you and we even used some of your equipment. You know, I put it on, and it's 20,000 sit-ups in, you know, 30 minutes, and it's kind of scary, and it makes these, like, you know, movements and shocks you. And as we were sitting there talking while I'm on it, I'm like, this is actually not very bad. In fact, it's like nothing, really. And then, you know, we used it for one on the pelvic floor. And then you were talking about another device you had.

And I suppose what I realized sort of sitting here that I think is hard for people to imagine if they haven't touched it is that your life doesn't seem. miserable at all. Like I think people sometimes see your protocol and they think there must be no freedom within this. And yet, like, this is a lot of freedom, actually. I think you are, you're modeling the future of humanity and getting people to shift their mentality by maybe the next stage is also showing them like, there is so much joy here. I mean, your kids are adorable. Perhaps it doesn't actually have to be that foreign. So I think it's really cool what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I would say that I was a slave to my fourth.

former self. I was a slave to the need for dopamine. I was a slave to the need of my impulses. I was a slave to my emotional needs. I was absolutely in a terrible situation. And I am now more free than I ever have been in my entire life. And I think most people when they think about it are in fact slaves to their current selves. And that's uncomfortable. And so they tell pretty stories about this being the way that this is living their best life or whatever. But we, the human condition by default is being a slave to self to your emotions, to your thoughts, to your surroundings. And we've built a society of addiction. And so I've finally, for the first time in my life, I've escaped it in my mind, in my addictions, in society, superimposing its will upon me,

whether it be algorithms or food or junk food or whatever the case may be. So yeah, I'm free for the, I'm as free as I've ever been for the first time in my entire life. Incredible. And what an idea that you actually don't have to be your thoughts, that you could be free from base desires continuously, and that you have, as you've talked about, the ability to be a sovereign human and an autonomous man. Pretty cool.

So I love this part that Brian talked about, zero-th principle thinking. And I basically said to him at the end, the interview, I was like, man, this has me thinking that there's so much I should be doing that's bigger. and then I'm actually playing a little small in some ways. And I was like, but I don't know what to do about that. You know, you're talking about like existential crises of humanity and expanding human consciousness.

And I'm over here like, try to do another deal, trying to hire better, trying to, you know, be better as a wife. And he's like, let me give you a framework. And this framework was really impactful for me, so I hope it is for you too. He goes, draw a box like this. And inside this box, I want you to go around and I want you to talk to a bunch of different people, as many as you can, about what they are doing. for work or career or purpose and why they are doing it. So what do you do for work? I'm an accountant.

Why? Because I want to make money for my family. Okay, you write that into the box. Write that into the box. And then he goes, if you want to be a zero-eth principle thinking, anything that's inside of the box, you can't do. You have to go to true blue ocean what is outside of it. Can you do something that nobody else is talking about? Because that's where it's not competitive. And why I loved this is because in my business, at least right now, I'm thinking in lots of different ways. God, I just feel like we're hand-to-hand combat. We're just like fighting against all these other people who are trying to do something just like us.

They copied us in some way, and then now they're like little ankle biters at me. And if you guys have felt like that too, it's really hard. The famous saying is the only thing that you know for sure in a knife fight is that you're both going to get cut. And sometimes that's what it feels like

when you're working inside of the box. I want to double-click on trolls here for a second with Brian. So he gets crazy hate on the internet, like incredible amounts of hate. People call him a cult leader. You know, they say horrible things about him and his son. I mean, stuff that I can't even imagine. And, you know, I looked up at him and I was like, kind of seems like you like the hate, you know, it seems like you like the trolls a little bit. He kind of looked back. I mean, he's very calm and zen-like. And he said, well, better than being irrelevant. He was like,

much better to be known and thought after than ignored. And I thought about that for a second because he said it sort of flitently and very calm. And it reminded me of this famous Ted Turner quote, which is he said about the press, you can say any negative thing you want to say about me, but make sure you spell my name right. And there's just an energy there that I think is worth taking home with this idea that if you're going to do anything interesting, people are probably going to troll you. And Brian has famously said many times, I don't care about what anybody thinks about me in the 21st century. I care about what the 25th century thinks about the actions that I am taking today. Could you have that imagine a reframe better than that? Like the next time somebody is

trolling you, the next time somebody says something hateful, the next time, somebody says you can't. Imagine not even caring what they think, but not carrying what anybody who is alive today thinks because maybe this entire generation doesn't understand where you're trying to go. That would be incredibly freeing, wouldn't it? I'm going to try it. Let's talk about what I'm calling the deal of the week or gangster marketing moves by Brian. First of all, the guy's kind of a marketing genius, which I think makes sense given he made a bunch of money before doing all this. Case in point number one, he started this idea of zero-eth principle thinking. And so he created sort of a whole new terminology, and what does he do to really hammer that home?

He changes his name on Twitter or X now to zero. So, of course, that's going to have people asking about it and remembering it nonstop. He also has a link to a site where he explains zero-th principle thinking. And what does that do? It allows him to immediately say that anybody who doesn't understand what he's doing is not operating from the degree of principle that he is. really, really smart. Also, I remember, like, in the beginning thinking, this guy is naked on the internet a lot. Like, he's, like, naked with kettlebells in a garage with, like, a forest in the background. I remember thinking, that's weird or, like, different. And, and then I realized what he would

do. He would kind of come up with this, like, you know, campaign that the New York Times would pick up, and then he would launch a product afterwards. It's kind of the Kardashian effect, essentially. They knew that to draft off the cultural conversation, that they could go viral with one thing, and then with all the virality getting pushed at them, they would sell something. And I think that's exactly what Brian is doing. He's selling ideas and also products.

In fact, because he was getting so much hate on the internet, he launched an olive oil company because he thinks that the delivery of olive oil is really important if it's done a particular way. And so he had an olive oil called Blueprint. People started calling it snake oil. What did he do? Change the name of the company to Snake Oil.

Brilliant marketing play where he plays directly into the hate that he's getting as opposed to bowing down to it. Another person that's incredible at this that nobody likes to give credit to is Trump. He would often say something ridiculous and then allow that to become a platform for him to hold the megaphone as opposed to somebody else. Really, really smart. That's why I think Brian might be the Twitter gangster marketer of our time. Brian did not start out as a genius. In his mind, when we were walking around and I was looking at all the books that filled his shelves, I said, have you always just been really smart?

But he said, no. In fact, I was super challenged in school. I didn't get good grades. I struggled a lot. I found it sort of insufferable. And, you know, I didn't score well on standardized tests. So I have no idea if my IQ is high or low, but he's like, I wouldn't be surprised if it's super normal. And I think that should be freeing because look at what this guy has been able to do despite sucking at school and potentially not having some off the charts IQ. I then asked him, well, are you really good at math? And he said, no, I'm not good at math. I'm like very, very. average at math, which I just sort of assumed, like, guy builds fintech company, sells for almost

a billion dollars, now is like spending two million a year on changing the world and all these complex systems. He must be brilliant. And his take is actually different. He was like, now, I actually am not sure that I'm smart. He's like, in fact, I think it's really hard for me to process information. I have to actually rearrange it in a way that my brain fits. And he's like, and I'm okay with that, but it isn't like I very easily processed things. And there's a lot of freedom in that. And then lastly, he showed us his penis clip that he measures his erections with at night, which, you know, I was like, Brian, I'm not touching that piece of equipment. He jokingly, you know, was like, I know, of course. You know, as he was talking about it, what came to me was that he is really trying to alter this

puritanical viewpoint that I think that we have, that our conversations around sex and our, you know, different anatomical parts has to be sexualized as opposed to just measured. And so I, I don't actually think that he's doing anything that crazy. He's just normalizing a conversation that we have historically not allowed or thought was normal or appropriate for people to be having. There's a lot of beauty and good in that in taking the things that we gave away our power to. We gave away our power to talk about our anatomy to doctors and to the medical complex. we gave away our ability to measure ourselves to doctors and the pharmaceutical and medical complex. There's really nowhere where you can grab all of your historical medical data and put it all in one place in order to figure out how you are measured or marked at a human.

And instead you go to the doctor and they go, yeah, you're kind of fine by these metrics. And instead he's taking that all back. And he's like, no, I'm going to measure it all. And I'm going to figure out what is important. And I think there's something really beautiful in that in becoming his own owner of his own body. And maybe we aren't really the owners of ours. And you know this channel we obsess on one thing, which is how to get more ownership for each of us. And I hope you felt like I did a little bit more to that after this conversation.

Talking with Brian Johnson was insane. And I thought instead of having a deal this week, Brian Johnson is actually kind of the deal. So we're going to break down his business, all of the businesses that he's built and then currently what is he working on today? So basically, Brian founded Braintree. Then he bought Benmo. Actually, you guys have all used that for only 26 million, which in the scheme of things, not that much. Grew it like crazy and processed 12 million payments, then sold that bad boy as a combined entity for about 800 million, took home $300 million himself, and sort of walked away. Fascinating part about that. He then creates a $100 million fund,

the OS fund, which invests in a bunch of technology. that now Brian's using to try to live forever, including a company called Kernel, which was a Neurotech company, designed helmet. This one, you can see here. If you're watching, I played around with it yesterday. And his goal was basically to detect cognitive issues early. Then in 2021, he announced what's called the blueprint. I think we should walk people through the blueprint really quick. It's been all over the internet before. But Rachel, turns out you follow this guy and are all up in the blueprint. So walk up through what it is super high level really quickly. The blueprint is. his public science experiment, basically, to try to reverse his aging. He's about 45, or at least he was

when this came out, I think. He's trying to reverse his aging to the age of 18, which is about the age that his son was when he started this. And he's doing this by basically spending, like, I think it's like $2 million a year on a bunch of different experiments. And this includes things like hundreds of tests, blood transfusions, no sex after 8 p.m. And obviously, like most people would not be able to do this. So he's trying to take it all on for himself and he's documenting this entire thing over on YouTube, on a blog, and he's kind of teaching people the ways in hopes of making himself age backwards. Yeah, he has this wild lab that's like in his house. And so you'll see on the interwebs that I played around with it, there's one that you sit on and it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a,

it tightens your pelvic floor and your rectum. Oh my God. And so you sit on this stupid. And you, and it pulsates. Are you saying you did keogel exercises with Brian Johnson? I did. And I was like, Brian, the thing is, am I about to orgasm in front of you and my employee? Because I'm going to feel weird about that. And he was like, it's highly unlikely. That is great.

Wait, so why does he have? Well, he has a whole lab because, well, a couple things that's interesting that I had never thought about before is he says that I'm going to paraphrase. So sorry, Brian, if I get this wrong. But basically that the longer you can deletreact. lay your inability to procreate the longer you can live, which makes sense. Like as long as you can continue to procreate, you know, the human body wants to stay intact, delay cellular degeneration, etc. And so your pelvic floor and your rectum, I guess, are important for that. So you sit on it

and it like zaps you. And so he's like, you're going to want to move around. So I'm like, oh my God, that cracks. So is this something that is scientifically backed? I don't know. I haven't checked the science on this. Somebody should. I'm sure it's all over. or Brian Johnson's thing, but I used it. And it wasn't that painful? He's like, I'm on this one. I'm on meetings. I'm like, I'm dying. Could you imagine him on Zoom just getting rectally zapped every seven seconds? That's God. I can't say what I was going to say. I was crazy. Then I did his machine that you put on your abs that does 20,000 sit-ups in 30 minutes. Is that real? I feel like that was a big thing in the 80s or something like that? Like, you remember? I don't know. I tried to do it here in Austin. A friend of

mine told me that it worked for her and I went and signed up for it. It was $3,000 for three, three sessions. I'm like, this, I better walk out with an eight pack. Yeah. I want a refund. And I didn't walk out with an eight pack, but he does it three days a week. And he's got ab so I don't know. It could work. What else did I see that he has there? He has sort of like a famous breakfast with like mushrooms and this nutty pudding and stuff that he does. Do you try it? I didn't try the nutty pudding because I don't know. I felt rude. You know, you know, you don't want to go to his house. You're like, the thing is, yuck. So like the Latina and me couldn't let that. happen. But then also, he's like, do you want to see my erection measuring device? And I was like,

yes, I do. Obviously. You were like, whip it out. Yes, I do. I was like, but I do not want to touch that one, Brian. He was like, obviously. Is that just like a life vest that he wears? Like, for his penis? Like, I don't know. Like a little mini life vest. I was reading a Time magazine article. It just floats it up. Yeah. I'll be the Time Magazine article. And that's how they described it and I want to know, which is Tony images. I know. I think I have some video of it. No, basically looks like a little, like a little, I don't know, like a Lego with like a string on it. Oh, so it's not like an aura ring? No. No. No. And you just kind of like the string goes on and then it measures something. Life Fest. We're going to keep that. We're going to keep the conversation moving. So anyway, he's got a crazy regime.

Seems happy. And I asked him if he was happy. He said he was happy. Happier than he's ever been. But what I think is really interesting is this, this regime. I mean, when I told my parents about this. maybe you guys can relate, you know, they were like, they were, they had a visceral reaction to Brian Johnson. It was like, why would he live like this? Why would he do this? You know, I just want to live my life. That's so weird. You know, they're kind of like making fun. Maybe pissed if I heard this, so I hope they don't listen. But I get why because I think Brian Johnson is putting in people's face their bad decisions every day. And if he's right, then like, I don't know, 60% of the decisions we make. every day are slowly killing us. And that's actually really hard to take in, right? And especially with

a statement like every thing that lessens my life is an act of violence against my body, well, what he's basically then saying and that I think people could take that way is, well, you are committing acts against your body that are violent nonstop. And so I see why people get so visceral of reaction against him. But it honestly surprised me because I don't think my parents are internet trolls, but they were not into it. They were freaked out about it. Well, nobody wants to be wrong. Nobody wants to be wrong.

And, you know, I think deep down inside, you know the things that you shouldn't be doing for your health. I know the things I shouldn't be doing for my health. And we're choosing to do them or not do them anyway. And we can, like, write a story to ourselves about why that is. You know, you eat the Cheetos, you have the drinks, you do whatever because, you know, you only live once, yolo, right? There's also another side to it.

And I think it's wild the amount of willpower this guy has. The other thing that's cool, you know, then my parents were like, well, he's probably trying to, you know, make money or build a business. I'm like, first of all, I don't have $300 million hanging around. But if I did, it'd probably be sufficient. And so, like, it's not like the guy needed to go out and have a new side hustle of, like, getting berated on the internet. He was already pretty famous and rich, so I don't think that was necessary. But it is wild the businesses that he's creating, right?

Like, we were talking about them. So he's got an olive oil company that he changed the name to snake oil, wink, wink, and takes every day. He's got now 11 new products. I actually talked to him. I said him a picture of my grandma, who's 9-9. It was like, she's still motor in, but we should get her on the protocol. And he's like, I'll pay for her to be on the protocol. He's like, we could document it. I'm like, yeah, but what if I kill grandma, which like kind of freaks me out? So I don't know about that. It's like, grandma's been like run over by a ranger. It's like grandma's been murdered by a biohacker. I heard he doesn't like to be called a biohacker. That will be the YouTube title for this for this podcast. Then obviously he has a ton of different products that I think he could come out with in the future because he's got this wild media empire. You know, people give us a hard.

time for being on the internet, right? Like, why would you do this if you had all this wealth? Why would you tell other people how to buy businesses if you already bought businesses? But he's sort of the same way. I mean, I think you followed a little bit what he's doing on YouTube and with the don't die meetings. Is there anything there that you think's interesting for people? With all of his YouTube videos, I do. One thing that I really appreciate is that he documented another woman that's also doing the blueprint with him, who I believe worked for him at one point, possibly, but she's fairly young. Something that I'm still kind of nervous about. I also am interested in this kind of stuff. I know I'm making a lot of fun right now, but I think anybody that's interested in health or the wellness space would be

interested in him and has seen these videos before pop up. But I am a little nervous about only having one person kind of test himself and do this because I almost feel like I'm putting all my eggs in one basket when I'm taking the advice that he's giving because he's the only person that's getting A-B tested. Yeah, it's a good point. Immediately when you say, Brian, Johnson and basket, I think of his Easter image. Have you seen that guy? Speaking out. Sam Pinkett, by the way, with an Easter basket with a bunch of eggs in it, right where you could imagine. He's got a sense of humor, which I appreciate. But I think you're right, you know. It's like him and his, that woman, and then I guess his son. So I will say it's putting my eggs in three baskets.

Plus his dad. I think he's having his dad. Oh, I didn't know that. Actually. Yeah, yeah. He transfused his blood. Is that the right word? Yes, for his son, though, I thought. No, into his dad. Oh my gosh. his dad's age too. But wouldn't that freak you out if your parents were like, the thing is dad's busy? Yeah, blood runs, what is it? Thicker than water. Yeah, it takes a whole new meaning. Yeah, but I thought that was wild. The other thing that I think is interesting about him is he realizes what we already know, which is that attention is the new economy. If he compare $300 million with hundreds of millions of views online, which he's doing with YouTube, with getting the next generation involved, he can create a cult-like movement. So he has,

these don't die meetings where he's had like 500 don't die meetings all around the world. People meet up all with the same idea of trying to increase longevity, which is actually really, really cool because another way to say it would be 500 meetings happen around the world with people who are interested in healthier living decisions. You know, and he just uses a catchy tagline that pisses people off because they're like, why do these people want to live forever? But all it really is, it's like, hey, what if we all tried to live a little bit healthier? You would think that would be a good thing for society. It's kind of backwards. that we're so societally warped that we think that this is negative. This episode is brought to you by Tellus Online Security. Oh, tax season is the worst. You mean hack season? Sorry, what? Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms. But I've got Tellus Online Security.

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Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. I think there are more people that are upset at the idea that living a lifestyle like him that would take away the enjoyment of life. I think that's what they're really mad about. Like, why would, they don't think that it's worth living if you live a life that is like his because to them that depletes them of joy. And I guess you can't really quantify how much somebody really values life without having certain things in it, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, he has a quote too that I love that something along the lines. of freeing yourself from the prison of desires is like the ultimate happiness. And so I think his response would be a little bit booed alike, which would be, well, I just want less things. And because I want less things, I'm actually happier. And I can be very happy and then have a long healthy life. It's also wild because I asked him, I'm like, you seem very calm. I'm like, do you get mad very often? And he's like, not really. I'm like, do you get upset? You're like, when was the last time you yelled? He's like, I can't remember. So I don't know.

part of us are just like, we're wired different. You know, I'm a really excitable Latina, so I don't think that would work for me. Now, the last thing I thought that was fascinating, I talked to Brian about where he's going with this business. And like, imagine him launching a health empire on the back of personal experiments where he has skin in the game. So you guys actually know, at least, you know, when you go to a doctor, then the doctor is like fat, unhealthy, like divorced and giving you health advice? Sometimes I'm like, I don't know, man, what are you doing? And with this guy, at least, you know, he's doing it all, which I think has like perfect alignment. So I bet he built something giant. It kind of reminds me. I texted him. I was like, you know, you should look at what

Gwyneth Paltrow did with Goup because it was similar. I mean, remember all that, all that crap she got when she launched. Yeah. I do feel like there could be a funny meme going around on the internet that's not made yet. That's like Goop girlfriend, Brian Johnson boyfriend. Oh, this is good. Somebody make that tag us all that on Twitter also like something with like the member when gop talked about the golden yoni am i saying that right is that the egg that she put somewhere yeah put up your part as a lady so i'm looking at olive oil over here on goop's website which is by flamingo estate which is a really cool company flamingo estate i think goes to like famous people's houses and we'll like say hey if you want to make honey and have bees on your property we'll put it there

and it's like better for your property and we'll sell the honey and say like oh it's Gwyneth Paltrow's honey or whatever. So Flamingo State kind of cool company. Goub sells Flamingo Estate olive oil. It is $85. How much do you think blueprint olive oil costs? 60 bucks. Okay. Let's look. Do you already know this? No, I'm guessing. 60 dollars, yeah. Oh, I actually swear I didn't know that. But I should have asked him. Yeah. So I think there's something there. I think he could create the next that he could create the tech bro goop of her age or even just, or even just think about it. What's the healthy dudes company? Like, I don't know that that exists. I mean, healthy rich chicks is probably goop, right? Healthy, like, mid-market moms is Jessica Alba, whatever that

company is called. Honest. Okay. I'm thinking just whenever I think of guy health, I think of Equinox. I think that's a gym chain. And that's also like multi-gender. That's true. I just feel like whenever I hear people talking about it openly a lot, it's Matt. Yeah. Anyway, I think there's a play there. I don't know the revenue Gwyneth does now at Goop, but I would imagine it's pretty sizable. And she's really mainstreamed a bunch of stuff that was not mainstreamed prior. I mean, you could give her crap for how expensive some of the stuff is, but like, don't buy it. Go buy a cheaper version somewhere else. And you pay a premium for sort of the content, the knowledge, the lux version of it. The last thing I want to talk about, I guess, is I'm interested to see if he comes out with a specific

piece of hardware that is something that a consumer that, like myself, would buy, like, I were an aura ring. It was wildly expensive, but it was still something that, like, I saved up for. I asked for part of money for Christmas. I chipped in half. Like, I was like, this is something, like, almost, I thought of it, like a non-negotiable piece of health tech. I really like, and I've had it for quite a few years. It rocks for me. But I could seem like making something like an aura ring, like an aura ring that I could lift in or something would be nice. I want the, whatever the machine was that I did, you know, do you know how hard it is as a woman to like get a six-pack or to get just tighter here? My heart.

husband just stops looking at soda, get skinny. I could run 400 miles every day and not get a six-pack. So I don't know. If Ryan Johnson is listening, I think the shoutout would be, yeah, we want to live longer, but we also want to be hot. So can we have full? What does you do? Like inside of his medicine cabinet tour, like a Vogue 20, like a Vogue style tour. Oh, I saw it. It's just a lot of pills. He doesn't give anything that's like, like, this is my like super good. Like, I don't know. I imagine he's like serum. and stuff. Like, I want him to, like, gopify himself. Like, honestly, Gwenne needs to go to his house. It does. It does. He does look like he dyes his hair. Didn't ask. I could have added that to the repertoire. I could also see him making a wellness club where you have all those really, so remedy place, I think is a wellness club chain. He should make, like, a wellness club where you can go meet other

people that are interested in the blueprint. Not dying. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, you know, maybe for a premium price, like how much is equal, like, $2.50 a month or something? Yeah, something like that. The moral of the story, I think, is, again, what I hope you took away from Brian Johnson is play bigger games, wild ideas about the fact that, you know, could you even imagine a mind in which you decide that your entire mission is going to be not to die? And the belief system you have to have locked in to determine that you might even be able to beat, like, the ultimate thing that beats all humans. And I think that's pretty powerful. And so I like listening to the crazy ones, people like Brian Johnson, who've built some. something, done it again, and then trying it at an even bigger level. Really, really cool. Thanks for being builders. I see you all and you are a big deal to me. We'll see you next week. Oh, and if you

haven't subscribed and reviewed the podcast, please do. That's how this thing grows. Appreciate all you guys.