BigDeal - #106 Sales Expert: 3 Ways To Get A YES Every Time | Ryan Serhant

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Most people think sales is about talking. Ryan Serhant knows better — it's about translating. After closing over $20 billion in real estate deals and building one of the fastest-growing brokerages in America, the star of Netflix's Owning Manhattan has cracked the code on how to get anyone to say yes. From selling homes to billionaires to building a media empire on the back of reality TV, Ryan reveals the brutal truth about what it actually takes to win at the highest level. In this raw conversation, Ryan breaks down the orchid trick (he's sent 2,000 of them), why silence is violence in negotiations, and how a fake Rolex changed his entire life. We dive into why wealthy people don't pay for information or access, but instead pay for confidence; how to get a stranger to trust you with real money; and why the best negotiators throw the first punch. But this isn't just about closing deals — it's about building an empire. Ryan reveals how he's stacking businesses under one holding company (brokerage, media, education, and AI), why his LTV to CAC ratio is 6x while the industry averages 1x, and how he's building real estate brokerage 3.0 with no physical offices. If you've ever wondered how to sell to the ultra-wealthy without sucking up, how to build unshakeable confidence when you're broke, or why setbacks are just speed bumps and not brick walls, this episode will change how you think about sales, negotiation, and what it takes to become the best in the world at what you do. Protect what you own. Next makes it fast, simple, and painless. Check it out: https://nextinsurance.com/codie I say it all the time: building real wealth doesn’t require a flashy startup — it just takes one boring, cash-flowing business. Join me at Main Street Millionaire Live to get my exact playbook for finding, buying, and scaling a business. Stop wondering how ownership could change your life, and come find out: https://contrarianthinking.biz/MSML26_BDYT ___________ 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:22 The Fake Rolex That Changed Everything 00:04:35 From Soap Opera Star to Real Estate Mogul 00:06:36 Speed Bumps vs Brick Walls: Handling Setbacks 00:09:26 Building in Public: The Netflix Experiment 00:16:29 Gray Hair Don't Care: Dealing with Haters 00:18:24 The Orchid Trick: Turning Rejection into Power 00:21:06 Selling to Billionaires: The Two C's and the Pull Strategy 00:25:27 Confidence is Currency: What Rich People Really Pay For 00:34:11 The Thousand Minute Rule: Time as Money 00:31:38 Hiring A-Players: Intelligence Over Experience 00:39:32 Leader vs Manager: Standing at the Front Lines 00:41:11 Building Identity and Future Memoir Exercise 00:42:54 The Four Business Flywheel Strategy 00:52:07 Negotiation Mastery: Translate Don't Talk 00:54:36 Owning Manhattan Season 2 and the Evolution of Reality TV ___________ MORE FROM BIGDEAL 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podcastbigdeal 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bigdeal.podcast 📽️ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@big.deal.pod MORE FROM CODIE SANCHEZ 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@codiesanchezct 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/codiesanchez 📽️ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@realcodiesanchez OTHER THINGS WE DO 🌐 Our community: https://contrarianthinking.typeform.com/to/WBztXXID 📰 Free newsletter: https://contrarianthinking.biz/3XWLlZp 📚 Biz buying course: https://contrarianthinking.biz/3NhjGgN 🏠 Resibrands: https://resibrands.com/ 💰 CT Capital: https://contrarianthinking.biz/4eRyGOk 🏦 Main St Hold Co: https://contrarianthinking.biz/3YfGa8u Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com.

You have a thousand minutes every day to be productive. If you look at those thousand minutes as $1,000, it'll really start to affect the way you give someone 15 minutes. I was spending so much time where it wasn't a benefit for me. Every day is going to cost me $1,000. Ryan Sourhant is one of the top real estate brokers on the planet. Star the hit Netflix show owning Manhattan. In this episode, we get into How to Get a Stranger to Genuinely Trust You with Real Money, how to sell to top-tier clients, aka rich people, without sucking up,

and how to handle the pressure of being at the very top. If you want to become a certified expert in negotiation, sales, and confidence, you want to listen to this episode. What did you do when you were lost and broke, and what would you tell somebody else who was in that exact same position today? Setbacks are just speed bumps. They are not brick walls. I've been dead drunk in the city, and I will never go back there.

I will run as far away from that moment as I possibly can. All of the other issues that I've had through my career, I think a lot of people would treat them like brick walls go home. And success is like right over there past that corner maybe. What wealthy people are paying for is not information or access. It's confidence. And confidence is currency. How does somebody build their confidence?

So two things. I want to dive into this incredible post I found on Twitter or X these days. Where you say, about a year into my sales career, I decided to buy a fake Rolex and it changed my life. Can you tell us that story? Do you still stand by it? I do still stand by it. I had no money. It was in New York City and I was faced with the option. A lot of people who move away from home, especially we come to New York City, especially in the summer of 2008, come to, which is I either have to figure out how to survive here or I have to move home or I have to go get another job. And New York is incredibly cutthroat. Like it is true what they say. You can. either make it here and you can make it anywhere or you can try to make it here and then you just

die. And so the fake Rolex for me was I was trying to find a way to enter rooms not as a broke kid and enter rooms as the person I wanted to become. So it wasn't fake it till you make it. It was how do I give myself the confidence when I'm 24, to to be future me. And if I do that, then maybe one day I can buy my own Rolex. And as a little kid, you see the Rolex or the Mercedes symbol. And you attach that image to success, power of brand. And so that fake Rolex wasn't about the watch.

It was about identity. And it was super helpful for me in like a blankie kind of way. And even though it didn't tell the time because it was terrible, What it did do was remind me that I had very little time because I had no money and I had to make moves. And I would look down at that thing and I'd have to move my wrist around because in a very humid summer, a fake relax turns your wrist green. And I didn't want people to see the green on my wrist. And it just reminded me, I better make moves. I've got to go fast.

I want my identity to be associated with success. However, I can do that so that one day this could be real. and it was like 18 months later, I'm doing a deal in Florida, and I didn't do deals in Florida. And I walked through a mall, and there was like a Winston's or some kind of jewelry store, and there was a rose gold Rolex Daytona.

In the airport mall in Florida, and I went and I saw it, and it was asking $30,000. Great deal, looking back at it now. And I went to the woman and I asked to try it on, and it was so heavy, because I'd never worn a real walk. before. And I was like, this is what people wear. This is insane. I'll have fucking arthritis

in my wrist. And I didn't even negotiate. It's like, can I just put this on my credit card? Because I could buy it. And I still have that watch. And I barely ever wear it because I think it's just so ostentatious. But it reminds me so much of those early days for me. That's so good. I went down a rabbit hole on you. And now, you know, you're this huge success. And you have like one of the fastest growing brokerages in the U.S., hundreds of employees, lots of different businesses, you know, big huge TV series a couple times over. But I had no idea that you were a soap opera star from As the World Turns back in the day. And what I think is cool about that is... Yeah, what do you think is cool about that? Well, first of all, can I show you this, this picture?

I almost don't recognize you without the gray hair. With the gray. Yeah, I was dyeing my hair back then. Oh, really? It was actually gray, but it was dyed. I started going gray when I was 16. That and acne were my biggest weaknesses. And, me trying to be an actor. I moved to New York City to do theater. And one of my first jobs I got was Evan Walsh the 4th on As the World Turns until that photo is me. During the writer's strike of 2007, I went from being a good doctor to killing everybody. And I took my aunt hostage, and then my grandmother wrestled me and stabbed me with a syringe and I died. Which for me in my life, meant that I had no job. And then my, you know, $544 per episode was gone and I had to figure out

another way to pay my rent. But like, you can't be a young 20-something in New York City who has a 20-something face with a head of gray hair. And so I used to dye it like every 10 days because I couldn't have roots. Like like a young dude with like gray roots. I looked anyway. Today, maybe it would pass. Back then, didn't pass. And because I'm so white and so pale, I remember, like, I just had this, like, really dark, dyed hair, very white, everything else, and I kind of looked like a vampire.

And you're killing all your family. And I'm just killing all my family. But what I kind of love about it is, there are so many people that have, like, had a weird moment in their life where they're like, what am I going to do next? I'm totally lost. Yeah.

I have to make a complete career. pivot. And you've had that a few times over. And so even though you're on high now, like, what would you say to the person who's listening who maybe now relates to that young Ryan? Like, what did you do when you were lost and broke? And what would you tell somebody else who was in that exact same position today? Setbacks are just speed bumps. They are not brick walls. And you have to determine, one, what is your core identity? What do you actually want in life? at that time when I was doing the soap opera and doing off off off off Broadway shows, I saw people who what they wanted most in life was just to perform.

And it didn't matter if they made money, it didn't matter if they were comfortable. What made them happy was just to perform. And I really had to deep inside myself and say, am I okay being dead broke when I'm 70 years old and nervous about rent payments as long as I'm performing? And the answer was just no. I want to be as successful as I possibly can be.

I never want to question any price ever. And I've been dead broke in the city. And I will never go back there. I will run as far away from that moment as I possibly can. And so getting fired off the soap opera, when I got into real estate, getting fired off my first building, all of the other issues that I've had through my career,

I think a lot of people would treat them like brick walls, go home. Brick walls, oh, it's not for me. They are just speed bumps on the path to success. And success is like right over there past that corner maybe. If it's not, you just got to keep going in the dark because it's probably going to be past the other corner. And you will get there the longer you try. Endurance for the win always. So good.

Yeah, you had this video that I saw the other day that I loved. You were having a 16 and a half hour day. And someone asked you, what keeps you motivated on that kind of day? And you said, total bars, you said, pure adrenaline tracing through my bones because that fear of losing hurts a lot worse than the pain of winning. Yes, I do remember saying that. That was a long day because I had to open up our Rhode Island office. And so the day started in New York, helicopter to Rhode Island, appointments back to back to back to back to back to back to back,

launch party, helicopter back to New York City, back in the car to do all the work I hadn't done that day. Like the work doesn't go away just because you're traveling or doing other things. You know, and I try to swallow the tired and I try to appreciate the tired. If I'm not tired, then I'm probably not pushing hard enough for better or for worse. But I do agree with that. I think, you know, you listen to a lot of CEOs, a lot of major athletes. And I think they all have this disease where they hate losing more than they like winning.

And I definitely feel the same way. Yeah, you know, I know you've said like you want to build the number one real estate brokers in the world. We were just talking about how that's hard. And then you've also said, I thought the Netflix intro is incredible, by the way. Like, I'm coming for everyone. Very dramatic. So good. But I was wondering, like, what makes you so fanatical about what you want to create?

You seem like a man on a mission. Like, why is that? And like, if somebody else wants to get that kind of obsession, what do they do? I kind of think why not? Like, if the opportunity presents itself, why not go the distance? I almost feel like it's a divine duty.

And we're talking about a very niche industry, by the way. Like, I'm sitting here saying, I want to build the number one real estate firm the world is ever known. So let's go try because the opportunity is actually there. We have inbound lead flow. We have great growth. We're moving incredibly quickly. I know how to do it. I'm not saying I want to be the number one basketball player in the world. I tried. I suck at basketball. My dad made me play every single sport known to man my entire childhood. I had to play one season to see if I liked it. I was never allowed to quit. And it was the worst.

I went to college, and the only way I could go to college is if I took every single class. I wasn't allowed to just do whatever I wanted. So micro, macroeconomics, biology, every lab, it was the absolute worst. But he made me try everything because he would always say, I'd rather you regret the things you did than the things you never tried. And that plays a huge role in my DNA today. So like, why not go for it? If I don't make it, at least I tried.

Well, it's interesting because sometimes I wonder, I was listening to like Brad Jacobs the other day, you know, who wrote how to... How to make a billion bucks. A few billion. A few billion bucks. Which is such an important three words, you know? Like, I love the a few billion is something I aspire to say one day. Yeah, we work with him. Oh, you do?

Interesting. Yeah. Well, you've already closed $10 billion in transactions in real estate, right? Or more than that now. 20. 20. 20. Yeah, it's an old stat.

Daniel will get on that. So you've closed 20 billion. I was curious. Like on those days where you're struggling, you don't want to keep going, you're tired, is there an amount of money that somebody could pay you to make you stop? No. I'm not motivated by money. Like, I've made a lot of money. I have no, I would not be here. Like, if it was about money for me.

Like, money is a tool and a resource to create lasting impact. And so I am far more motivated by the lives of the people that we change. on the sales, the buy and the sell side that we get to work with. I am motivated by the people we've motivated through the TV shows. Like, I know it's insane, but the amount of kids that come to us that are standing outside Sirhan House and Soha right now, like literally right now, in the rain, who are waiting for me or someone else to come in just to let them see it

because they are so inspired by what we do that they want to get into real estate. For better for worse, I tell them all to go cure cancer, they don't listen to me, is far more motivating than anything else. I'm motivated by goals, right? So even on the days that I'm tired, I know that I have goals to hit and achieve, and I've got to go out there and get them. And I think, you know, I think discipline is defined by doing the things you don't want to do, which oftentimes is like, I don't know, I woke up at 4.30 this morning. I did not want to. I didn't go to the gym at 5.30 this morning to do. To do,

deadlifts because oh my god i fucking love it i disliked all of it but it's the job you know yeah i think the fascinating part about watching people on the internet build in public which has never been a thing we really got to see before you know like we didn't see brad jacobs on his come up you know we didn't get to see i always really liked you know hearing about charlie munger and then hearing about sam zell right and i just never saw them as young guys so it's really interesting to watch you And I think, you know, that's probably why millions of people follow you online. It's also why, like, I think what we're doing is a unique social and media experiment. Like, I built the number one real estate sales team in the United States on the back of a Bravo TV show.

I started selling real estate through YouTube in 2015 when it was stupid. By 2019, it was the number one real estate broker in the United States, right? We were doing just over a billion dollars a year without a whole. a lot of tools and resources. So I blew up my life, started my own company, and now we're building the company on the back of Netflix. And if I can do it, I get excited about what phase three then looks like, but people do get to really watch the journey. I've been on a reality TV show doing exactly what I do today just at a little bit of a higher level every year since 2012. So you can go back and you can watch Million Dollar Listing, New York, season one, March of 2012, and I am just a boy,

like going on dates. Like, I'm like, it's a lot. To today, if you really just want to see, like, how does a kid who has no idea what he's doing, just do it anyway? You know, it's one of my favorite parts because I remember when I first started getting on the internet, let's call it, like, three or four years ago, people are like, you're out of your fucking mind. Like, if you really own all these businesses, if you're in private equity,

if you actually went to Georgetown and Goldman, why would you get online and do TikToks? What kind of idiot retail investor are you? But I think what's fascinating is, like, I kind of love that you don't take yourself very seriously. Like you'll sprint in houses, you'll make fun of yourself. You literally have your employees.

I saw one where, like, jumping out of like, I don't know, jumping out of, like, the top of cubicles on top of you in the elevator. Yeah. Yeah, that happened. I was wondering, did anyone ever try to tell you, you wouldn't be taken seriously if you joked on the internet. Yeah, this morning.

What are you talking about? Like every day, there are three buckets of my audience. One bucket are super fans. They're inspired. They're aspired. They love what we do. Their bucket doesn't care, doesn't know, doesn't affect them. Bucket three hates me.

And it's jealousy, right? It's a little bit of the peanut butter and jelly. And it's because we've been able to create a large business on the back of what they talked poorly about. And it's hard to take words back when they're written in permanent ink on the internet. And I think it's okay. I think that when people talk about me, they do it because when they talk about themselves, no one listens. It's tough. And, you know, I think everybody feels that way about haters.

like they feel like, hey, I'm not going to care. It's not going to get to me. And then you have it happen to you. And it's quite hard, I think, actually, at least for me, you know, if somebody, I've definitely had the moments on the internet where it feels like everybody, I know nobody actually cares about me. But I've had a moment where I'm like, oh, everybody's hating on me on the internet. So for people out there listening, like, how do you stop caring what the haters think?

Do you have a practice you do? Is there, were you just born gray hair don't care? Gray hair don't care. Do you tagline? tagline. Yeah. The real house husbands of New York. Grey hair don't care. Um, what other people think affects no part of my working minutes. So it doesn't really do anything to me. Like, for someone on the internet to say something bad about you, I actually feel bad for them because I just know how awesome I am. Like, I'm just like, man, this person needs a friend.

I've never spoken poorly about most people, definitely not on the internet, because I have a job. And I just don't act that way. So I think the moment people stop talking poorly about you is the moment I'm probably going to have a problem. Because it just means I'm not doing anything and I'm not doing things right. In the day, I mean, we run four businesses, but I'm mostly known for selling unaffordable real estate to the 1% of the 1%. it's easy to hate on that. I totally get it. I totally, totally understand where that negative sentiment's going to come from.

But I also appreciate the fact that I also came from a point where I had no money. And instead of looking up and getting angry, I looked up and said, that could be me too. Let me just do it my way. That's so good. Yeah, you have something called the orchid test, which made me laugh out loud and want to do it immediately. Can you tell us about that? The Orchid Trick, yeah. That's what it was.

Yes, it's how to handle rejection because I get rejected all day long. My number one job is to fail. The more I'm pitching, the more I lose. So I want to take as many swings as bad as possible, pitching agents, employees, deals, TV shows. Like, owning Manhattan on Netflix was not the first show that I pitched outside a million-dollar listing New York. I think it was like the 70th. So that's 69 knows to get to that one win, and it was just on that other side. And so when people reject me, my go-to because I just know how great I am.

And I feel so instinctually bad for the person who's rejected me because I know what they're about to go through with someone else, that I send them an orchid, the same way you would descend to somebody who has lost a loved one. And I write a little note that just says, thank you so much for the opportunity. And I'm sorry for your loss. And what are those of you sent out, do you think? Oh, 2000? What? That's insane. Do you own the flower company, too? No.

No, I just really like investing in florist shots. You can ask my assistant. I send two things. I send a book in a box and I send orchids. So when things go well, I have like a company book. We updated it every year. It's an actual book. I think physical things are okay. It's in a little box. It's our company, Cobalt Blue. And we write in a silver pen that says, thank you so much. much for the opportunity to see you on Tuesday or little things like it was so great talking to you 17 minutes ago really looking forward to meeting you in six months little notes like that that just peek the ears just a little bit and I'll send that book when I don't get the deal we we have we have put florist kids through college for sure you know what nobody tells new owners your first win feels amazing until you realize one accident one dispute one oops moment can wipe the whole thing

out. Smart owners don't wait for the disaster story. They protect what they're building. That's why I like next insurance. It's stupid simple. You hop online, answer a few questions, and boom, instant coverage built specifically for your business. No paperwork, no phone calls, no please hold. And here's the kicker. You get an instant certificate of insurance, so you never lose a job waiting on admin. Policy start at $29 bucks a month and they cover 1,300 business types, contractors, creators, consultants, cleaning crews, all of it. Owners take risks, but smart owners protect themselves while they take them. So check out Next Insurance and get covered in minutes at nextinsurance.com slash Cody. I want to talk about that because you close deals all the time. You're closing. I mean, we see them on the internet. You're running through

these huge pads, but you're probably closing somewhere in your business. I would assume millions, if not tens of millions of dollars every single day. Yes. How do you get a stranger to trust you? Like, give us the Ryan Sourhan secrets to sales. The number one thing to get a stranger to trust you is first use the two Cs. So no one trusts anybody. You immediately give the person a compliment and it has to be authentic. Right? And then you find something in common.

And it can be physical, right? Like, you complimented me on all black because you're in all black and now we're talking. I appreciate you taking notice of my outfit. Right. I could compliment you on ear. makeup, color of eye shadow, right? It pops. Eyes look great. Outfit, pinstripe, super cool. And we're both doing this podcast. And now we're talking about business. My sister has a ranch in Austin. Now we can talk about Austin. We can go down to Texas. I'm from Houston. And now we're talking. Okay. And then the flip side to that is to always say no to something.

people don't trust yes men or yes women they do trust when you pull things away or you say no like i flew with a billionaire to palm beach when covid started before i knew that there was going to be a covid housing market i just thought everyone was it was all over right and then people in new york started saying why have to live somewhere a lot of wealth had been created and i flew with this person you didn't trust me it's worth a couple billion dollars says his budget is 20 to 30 million. And I hadn't really done real estate in Palm Beach yet at that time. And so the first house I could get him into was asking $140 million.

And he asked me why I brought him there. I got really nervous, pit in my stomach. This isn't, I'm sorry, I shouldn't do this. And he said, it's amazing. I want it. But he doesn't trust me, barely knows me. The way to not get trust is to say, awesome, great. I knew you were going to love it.

This house is beautiful. It has an aquarium for human beings. It's the most expensive home ever sold in the history of Florida. Let's go do it. No trust. So the first thing I did is I said, no. I'm sorry I took you here. It's far outside your budget.

We're going to leave. Let's leave. We'll talk about it in the car. Took him to another house, $53 million. Projectile vomits in the lobby. Go to another house. $30 million won't get out of the house. Won't get out of the car, sorry.

Because what I showed him through my wow moment with the first deal was just too perfect. And the trust was built there. because I was willing to walk away and I was willing to not do the deal, right? It's like at a bar, I'm willing to not go home because I actually do like you and I want you to trust me and I'm a good guy. So let's talk later.

All of a sudden, it's like, I don't understand what to do, you know? Smart. And so, yeah, every sale has three peas through the negotiation. You push, you pull, or you persist. Sometimes it's an amalgamation of the three. sometimes like in that instance it was just pull you have an incredibly wealthy person in front of you they don't need to be pushed you don't really need to persist they're right there wealthy people

their number one asset is their time so they're going to be moving way faster than you are most of the times the number one thing to do is just to pull let's not do it I don't want to do the deal this makes me uncomfortable I don't want you to hate me let's not do it let me show you something else and then you make it their idea to move forward so clever yeah it's funny we own all of these service-based businesses, right? Like window cleaning. Actually, I should be pitching you on why we should be your services for a bunch of...

Window cleaning. Nice. Yeah, we own a... It's called Pinks. It's actually very cool. It's like 170 locations across the U.S. The whole home service franchise is about 800. Wow. And so window cleaning, painting companies, garage installation, etc. But what's fascinating is we found

for a bunch of our new franchise owners, their biggest issue was wallet share. So they always assumed that people would never pay for things that they wouldn't pay for. They're like, this is, I can't picture it because I can't pay for it. Somebody else, there's no way they're going to. And so it's been really interesting trying to break a lot of the team of this idea that rich people actually have a lot of money and they want you to give them a service to pay for. And so what do you tell, I've seen lots of your real estate agents, but a lot of them don't come from money. Like they're hustlers. How do you get them to

understand what it takes to sell to rich people and to break out of what my things? be their, their wallet instead? What wealthy people are paying for is not information or access. It's confidence. And confidence is currency. They want to know that when you tell them to do something or you tell them not to do something that they're going to believe it because they can pay for whatever information or whatever access they want.

And they could probably buy this house in front of them or this car or this watch. And if it was a bad deal, it's not going to change their life in any way, shape, reform. But when you have confidence in what you know and how you position this in their life, right, that confidence is the energy currency that will help that person make decisions with you and then they will be loyal to you for the rest of your career. True. Right. Billionaire class is that bullseye, but they are protected by six rings of sphere of influence, right? From advisors to family, to friends, to assistance, to bankers, to the outermost ring of vendors. So who is somebody that has already broken through and gotten their trust to get their share of

wallet? That's interior designers, contractors, attorneys. We were just talking about divorce attorneys, right? Estate attorneys and so on. Those people have a shared, commercially aligned interest with what we do. And so the way to get to the bullseye isn't to go to the bullseye and sit there and say, hey, come work with me, it's to get to the people where you have a commercially aligned interest, and then you can have share of trust while getting to share a wallet.

And we teach salespeople to do that. It is not easy. But once you learn how to create those conversations and build those relationships, you can build an uncapped life. It's incredible. It's why I really like that you have the education company, because I know everybody thinks that education has a sheen on it. You know, they think if you could do, you do. And if you can't do, you teach. But I think it's a real gift to give people, like, the secrets that you learn over 10, 15 years of being in real estate. And so I guess in that instance, with these real estate agents that come in for you, I'm sure you have interviewed thousands and you've probably seen thousands across the years. What do like the top 1% do and that maybe even the 99% would think is unreasonable?

The top 1% of salespeople just don't quit. It's the only way to be in the top 1%. Hard work trumps luck when luck doesn't work hard. And so they just show up day in and day out. They understand their job is to lose. And slowly but surely, the wins start to outpace losses. And then you compound and you compound. They're also relentless with follow-up.

right and they have pretty great memories or systems and processes in place to make sure that they follow up and follow through and follow back with everything they say they're going to do with every person that they meet and they also understand too like in negotiations like they they understood to do like what I just talked about in Palm Beach like the number one negotiation tactic is silence silence is violence there's nothing that drives a wealthy person crazier than not responding and I see it with me. There is nothing that drives me crazier than when Danny doesn't respond to my text messages. Like, I just lose my mind with everybody that works for me that doesn't respond in time.

And I know my clients are the same way because when they want something, they want it. How dare you not respond? So you have to respond in real time. Or don't. Go get another job. Yeah. It's a good point. I mean, I think the richer you are, the faster you move on average.

And the one thing I've always found with knowing as many billionaires as we've gotten to know over the years is like they're just faster than anybody imagines. I think a lot of times people think they're always smarter. I'm not sure that's always the case. But like they don't waste time at all. And you've actually talked about this. You've talked about how like you can't get some of your billionaire clients on the phone. They're like, the thing is, I don't get on the phone. Yeah.

And so do you have any weird quirks like that? Like, will you not do voice notes? I like, you know, Andresen, Mark Andreessen's comment of like, like, voice notes are violence. I think like it's a one-way street. Don't give them to me. I don't want one. You got anything like that? I don't send people voice notes, but I do record my own voice notes. And then I'll listen to them on the way to work, right? Motivational quotes. Yeah, no, I just talk to myself. I'm like, you got this right guy. You can do it, buddy. No, just like, instead of having to type, everything I do now is voice. Our AI service is all voice. Everything is voice.

And so I'll just talk about ideas so that I just don't forget them to remind myself to put them into action. Billionaires text more than 13-year-old girls. They just do for two reasons. First reason is it saves time. And they know that if you try to get them on the phone, what are you going to do? You're just going to try to convince them. And if you can't convince them in writing, you're not good enough. So that's one.

Two is so that it's in writing. So you can't go back and say, well, we talked about that. Remember when we had that conversation, we did this, we did this, they can just scroll. Anyone who has become that wealthy has gone through litigation and text messages and emails are admissible in court. And so you just always have to be careful that if you say it, right, you can forget it. If you write it, you can regret it. And incredibly wealthy people get that. Let's talk about hiring.

So you're bringing a bunch of people on board. Lots of people want to work for you. I saw the office. It's amazing. You've got your surhant all over the sides of it. It's a cool building. You've got people lining up. How do you determine if somebody's an A player or not?

Somebody should work for Ryan. I would assume you only want as many A players as you can. How can you tell? We haze them physically. Yeah. If you can't take a punch. You can't work here. You can't do that in New York.

Texas, we're fine. Yeah, exactly. You guys are soft. Yeah, exactly. Listen, I hire first and foremost for intelligence if I have someone who's incredibly smart in front of me, even if they don't have the resume, if they don't have the backing, if they don't have the experience,

they're just gonna figure it out. And a lot of what running a startup is about is not doing things the way we used to do them, but improving on the way were about to start doing them. And so I used to hire people for experience, and I just hated it because every meeting I would go to would be talking about what they used to do.

It's like someone who's, I don't know, been divorced three times. Every conversation is about an ex-wife. It's like, guy, move on. Like, talk about the future. And so what I like to do, especially with our executive hires, is I hire for a function,

and I hire for raw intelligence, and I hire out of industry. If they have rideshare app operational experience, high growth, tech business, they won't have any idea how to operate my business, a cloud brokerage, opening a state every month, but they'll get it, they'll figure it out. I also test for energy, empathy, and enthusiasm.

I think those are my three E's. And then our three key metrics are speed, quality, and experience. If you're not moving a little bit faster, at a little bit of better quality, and leaving an amazingly memorable experience, than we are screwed. That's a good point. Everybody has stories about the realtor. And if it's a good one, you get, I'm sure, five or ten more clients. And if it's a bad one, you probably get turned down 10 or 20 clients.

That's also, I mean, I was mostly talking about staff. She spent a lot of time thinking about the actual leadership team. About payroll and the actual, the leadership team, like our leadership team now is 17 people. Yeah. And I sit there and that's an expensive group of people. Every single minute costs money. And I have this thousand minute rule that's really important to me. And I really look at time as dollars.

It's the only way that I can be efficient with my time and also not waste time. What's your 1,000 minute rule? You have 1,000 minutes every day to be productive. Some people have 800 minutes. Some people have seven jobs. Some people have 10 kids. It's all different. But on average.

right you have a thousand minutes every day to be productive if you look at those thousand minutes as a thousand dollars in your bank of time you get every day it'll really start to affect the way you give someone 15 minutes or affect the way you start valuing your commute for example and i was spending so much time because i'm in sales i have no salary i have no benefits you eat what you kill. There is absolutely no parade when you make $25 million a year. And there is no pat on the back when you were in bankruptcy. No one cares. You're in it to win it. Okay. And so I was spending so much time meeting with people where it wasn't a benefit for me. Commuting where it just was a complete waste of time. And I was like, how do I re-trigger my brain to think about time like money? Every day

is going to cost me at that time when I started this was $1,000, a thousand minutes, a thousand bucks. If it's, if it's, you know, an hour meeting that's 60 minutes, it also helped me deal with problems and not have bad days, right? It's like you'll have a really bad call and then you have a terrible day. But if the call was only five minutes, would I throw away $995 because of $5? Probably not. And it's not a great analogy because you could have a bad call that could ruin your life. I mean, there's tragedies. It's editor. But like it was a real way for me to think about life in a relative way that has been a major unlock for how we operate.

And so I really try to put our executive team on the 1,000 minute rule as we go. Harvard Business Review wrote a case study on it thinking that it was the most interesting thing about me when I thought there were so many more interesting things about me. And they're like, no, you're so weird with time management and how you do so many different things. we're going to write about that. True saying. You know, when you were on, I think it was, million dollar listing was the first show, right? You were known as like this amazing sales guy,

one of the top real estate brokers, but you also had a little bit of a reputation for being tough, you know? Was that, given you were an actor before, is that like part of your personality? Is this like a persona that you put on? Or are you kind of like a tough guy will also be in this funny guy and highly competent? When Millionaire Listing was created, they cast four of us on the show.

And they said, we're going to film all four of you for the first season. You're going to spend a year making this TV show. Only three of you are going to make the cut. I never knew that. Yep. And you think business is rough. That was emotional rollercoaster. Because the producers would show up to a scene like, hey, I've got this person.

I want to show this apartment to. It would be great. And they would show up and they'd say, oh, this is what you have. yeah well you know we were shooting with the other guy this morning and he had this amazing celebrity in this gorgeous penhouse yeah i don't know if it's going to work for you and it like what they were doing was poking me and prodding me to make me get better and to figure things out and i had to not just be like the white quirky nice guy that is boring tv so if i could be the most vulnerable and have a little bit of an edge,

I would not get cut because I don't want to spend a year. You know how many thousands of minutes that would be? That's a lot of things. I would stress out. And so... Harvard would not write a case study on you. Yeah.

So I kind of concocted this arc where, you know, I'm an introvert. I got into theater when I was a little kid, so I didn't have to be myself. It was much easier moving from school to school to school because I was not good at sports. It was overweight. I had rash acne and I was going gray.

And I moved eight times before fourth grade to pretend to be a tree in theater after school than it was to try to go play football. And the TV show gave me an option to put on a different type of costume. Right. And a friend of mine who told me to get into real estate was like, it's theater. It's the same thing. You put on a performance. You put on your suit.

You memorize information. you understand the scene and you say yes and right there's some memorization but it's yes and how can I help you you want a department yes and what about this and okay what about this and and and and then you help them make a decision that they were going to make anyway because they're going to move except they're going to do it with you and it was a game and that's that's how we built so smart it's interesting because now that I'm on the internet as much as I am I see the showmanship everywhere, you know, and you see it in business. I mean, like famously, I was reading about Todd Graves from Raising Cains. This other person who's become a friend, David Senra has this

podcast called Founders. He talks about this game of showmanship as a leader and a CEO. So do you feel like you carry that into the CEO position, or do you almost have to leave behind this character development? Like, is there a little villain in the CEO, just like there was in the million-dollar listing? I think I'm way tougher as a CEO than I am as a TV agent. You have to be, because the liability is so hard. And a lot of people need to be led. People want to be led. I am a terrible manager. I hate it. It's not what I do. I have people who manage. I'm a much better leader than I am a manager. How do you see the difference between the two? What's the difference between a leader and a manager? I think that a manager does things right and a leader, right,

does the right things. I think that's a drucker quote. More than anything. I think the leader picks vision and stands at the front of the line. The manager makes sure that the line follows the vision. You know, if you think about like Marcus Aurelius and that front line, and I, one of the ways I differentiate myself, at least in the real estate space, is there a lot of CEOs are in the back.

They're in like a high perch, paying for things, you know, and then let's see what happens. Maybe like an idiot, you know, I've got like my broad, sort out, no helmet, because this could be my last battle, and I'm in the front lines on a horse, you know, marching around. I'm like, you guys better follow me because I'm going. And then they're like, I guess we're going to. And that's, that is literally, that's how we built a company. I feel like I've seen that video. Yeah, probably. We should make that video. You really should.

You know, you obviously have a ton of confidence, or at least projected confidence. How do you think somebody builds that? You've talked about how important it is to have confidence to sell things, to sell things rich people, how does somebody build their confidence? One of the ways I did it was with that fake Rolex early on. I think people have a lack of confidence because they have a lack of identity. You know, one of the things that we'll do through Sellit. So sellit.com is our education business.

We train salespeople in 133 countries. We've changed so many lives. And so it's insane to watch. As you sit, we say define yourself without using your name. or talking about what you look like. And it is so hard for people to do that. They're like, oh, I'm from X. It's where everyone goes.

I was born in, like, okay, so just so you know, you just told me, everything about you has to do with where you're from, where you're born. Really? Are you sure? Your whole life. Like, oh, no, no, no, that's it. I have a job.

They don't know how to talk about themselves. So we spend a lot of time helping people talk. about their core identity who are you as a person what makes you tick if you understand who you are today pros cons strengths and weaknesses you can then write your future memoir and go 24 months out 24 months from today where are you what do you look like right where are you living what are your best character traits what are you watching how much do you weigh what are you driving get as detailed as you possibly can, and then that is your roadmap. And if you know that's your roadmap, you spike your own confidence because you are able to execute

for a year, right, and then realize that vision for the next year. And if you do it the right way, you are that person before the 24 months are up. I want to talk about how you're stacking all these businesses now. So you start as like a real estate broker. Yeah. And you work for somebody else. Then you build your brokerage. Now you have your education platform as far as I can see it.

You also have your SaaS company and you have this brokerage. Yeah. What am I missing? And a media company? Do you separate that? Like how do you structure your holding company? How does that look like for you? Sure.

So I set up Sir Hand Technologies, which is a holding company who's operating companies help people move forward. And we do that by providing services that help buyers, sellers, and salespeople operate within the real estate world to make things better, faster and cheaper. One of the ways we do that is we own a cloud real estate brokerage. That's Sirhant. It's moving incredibly quickly. And what does a cloud real estate brokerage mean? We don't have physical spaces. But you have an office. I have a clubhouse in New York City because I like it. Clubhouse. Okay. I like that. So we have a clubhouse in New York City. We call them Sirhan houses. We have Sirhan offices all over the country now. Agents open them on their behalf and they're powered by the firm. The entire firm operates in the phone.

So unlike a brick and mortar brokerage. You go into a Caldwell bank or a Caldwell. Yeah, which are brick and mortar or franchise operators. And franchises used to work back when people paid attention to training because you would have the vision, the brand, and you would train relentlessly so that the experience in every franchise were the exact same. The minute the training went out the window, which is what all franchise operators in the real estate brokerage space have forgotten to do,

quality goes out the door. And that's why all those businesses are failing. like one by one by one. They're also aging out incredibly quickly. That would be like a Keller Williams. Yeah. So we have the cloud real estate brokerage. We then have a production company.

So Surhan Studios. So we have the Netflix show owning Manhattan season two, December 5th. We have all the top of funnel content, which is lead generation, organic for salespeople and people who need salespeople. That then routes in a funnel over to the brokerage, right? Our LTV to KAC is it, I told you, was six times. When industry is three. Yeah. Well, the industry, I think, is like at one.

Wow. And so we're at 6.6 as a ratio for present day value, which is, which is just like astonishing. And we do it because we don't buy revenue. And our lead flow is organic through content. And by revenue you mean paid ads? No, by revenue through buying commissions. So like if I'm... That's normal in the industry.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. Just the same way it is in like a hedge fund. an investment bank. You have a sales team or a portfolio manager. He does 20 million a year. There's a multiple on his 20 million. You come in, you lock them up, you give him golden handcuffs. We don't do that. So everyone comes to Sirhan for opportunity and they stay for the opportunity. We then have sell it.com, which is an operating company under the whole co. We then have simple. Simple is an AI workflow engine that replaces all back office support. So it's like

Instacart for work. And then we just spin that flywheel all day long. Fascinating. And going forward which one do you think is the biggest, or do you think that they're all so interconnected, that there will be no spin-outs? I think it's a public company by 2030. I think it could be spun out, sure. I mean, I've set it up in such a way where, and we've had people come to us who only care about simple

because all people care about is AI. We also have people who really just care about studios and organic lead-gen content and the IP that Studios has from us doing this for so long. And there's people who only understand brokerage, but we've kind of built real estate brokerage 3.0. And our average agent is young, the most diverse and inclusive real estate brokerage in the United States by far. You know, we're doubling in size every year and profitable.

So like, I don't know. It's just working. That's fascinating. So how big do you want this business to be? How big do you think it will be? I don't want it to be big. I just want it to be the best. Interesting.

No, come on. You don't have like a multi, multi-billion dollar valuation that you think would be fun to hit in the game at some point or no? I don't know. I probably, to the sadness of my investors, they think about valuation. I just think about being the best. Like if I could have 10 agents and sell more than any other firm, I would do it. Simple replaces a lot of admin workflow human support. but it empowers the salesperson to do more because we buy 80% of their day back.

All admin tasks are gone. And so I don't know where we get to. I only care about winning. And it doesn't have to be attached to dollars. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I get it. I think love of the game is what gets people going after a certain dollar amount. Yeah, I think if you focus on the money, the money doesn't show up.

Like when we raise money, I wasn't looking to raise money. If I were to looking and actively trying to go raise money, I think it would probably be hard. Does you think, like, in the beginning you have to be obsessed on money? Like your first 500K, your first million a year? Like, you kind of need to be obsessed with it. And then at some point, maybe not. Or is that not true? I don't know about every other industry.

It's possible in other industries. It's easy in our business to just focus on the work. And if you take care of the work, the work will take care of you. And then you want to understand how much money you have. How much is your life cost? How much is your month cost? like my monthly is high right and so I understand what the business costs I understand what my personal life costs I understand money but it is not a leading indicator for me and it's not a motivating factor in determining what I want to do

money is just a tool and when you treat it like a tool and not like the be all end all then you don't put dollars on a pedestal you just put the potential for greatness up there and it's so much more achievable so good how about you've had some crazy stories about people who are, one, say they have a bunch of money, don't actually have a lot of money. So many con artists out there. Really? Yeah. Insane.

And they've only gotten better. Yeah. That is true. Like you can't tell. Like, AI voice bankers who say they work at Goldman Sachs, who will trick you on the phone to tell you that their purchaser has all the money in the world. They submit offers and the deposit doesn't show up and they waste all your time. We have sham buyers all the time, all the time.

How do you tell if somebody is serious? or not? I mean, the first way to tell us to look them up online. Like, if you look them up, Google them, ask chat, is this person real? Who are they? And if there's nothing there, and they're looking for a $10 million home, kind of sketchy, although I will tell you, I met someone a long time ago through the internet who said they wanted to buy a place for $8.5 million and they were ungoogulable, but I wasn't doing a whole lot of deals back then. And so I was like, sure. Send me a proof of funds. Any DHL? me a photo of someone with in like an African headdress uh kind of thing and on the back of it just

said that the purchaser's name is good for it and does not commit to things he does not commit to. I was like, I'll take it. Um, sure, no problem. And he took out a contract and then disappeared for almost a year. And what people told me is, you know, people around the world will do that because they'll, they'll take a contract. They'll say, It's an American real estate purchase-a-sale contract. They got it for a good deal because that home, I think, was on the market at $15 million at one point and slowly made it down to $8.5.5.000. And then they'll go to people and say, come in on this deal with me for $10,000. Come in on this for $5,000 for me.

And they just steal money from people all around the world as they go. That guy actually did one day wire the $830,000 deposit just randomly showed up one day and then totally disappeared again and then forgot to close. And then, long story short, eventually, showed up to close, went and bought what I'm pretty sure was a private 737 that was sitting at JFK and then came back. And it turns out, I think he clears like a billion a year in pure cash. I don't know how much he actually makes. And he controls a delta in a very, very, very important passageway for shipping containers and a very, very important and potentially scary place. And he makes so much money that one night he was drunk and he was drunk and he was.

He was on Zillow and he filled out a form and I had nothing better going on. So I was just sitting in the office and I responded and I asked him at that first closing. He's bought a lot of properties since then. Asked him, I'm like, why did you even buy this? He's like, to be honest, I felt bad for you. And I'm like, super power, number one, make people feel so bad for me. They just buy the damn thing anyway. Dude, whatever it takes.

20 bucks is 20 bucks. I'm in. Yeah, puppy dog eyes. You know, gray hair, don't care. Just move on. That's incredible. Okay, I want to close out with, I think a lot of people get overwhelmed negotiating. Obviously, that's something that even Americans, we're not that used to.

People get scared about getting steamrolled. What do you do in a negotiation to start positioning yourself, like, in a power position? Somebody's sitting here and they're like, I don't know, they're trying to get a raise. They're trying to interview for the next big job. They're going to the next level of the game. but they don't know how to get in the power position and negotiation. What do you do? Two things.

First thing you just have to remember. The best negotiators, they don't talk, they translate. I see salespeople all the time, employees trying to ask for more raises. They don't know what to do. They don't understand their value. And so they just talk. They talk without saying a lot. The number one negotiators out there, they translate value.

They repeat what you say back to them and they mirror how you feel. You can get whatever you want if it's the other person's idea. And you do that by translating the conversation for somebody. So that's one. The second thing to understand to kind of get control in negotiation is you always throw the first punch. A lot of people want to stand back, right? No, I don't want to push. I don't want to persist.

You go into prison, you throw the first punch. So you ask the first question, get them talking. People love hearing themselves talk, especially grown men. They just love the sound of their own voice. And they love hearing themselves, talk about themselves, to talk themselves into decisions. And so you start top of funnel, use the funnel technique. Big picture questions. Right.

So where are you from? What brings you here today? How can I help you? what is winning look like to you? That's another great way and a great question to reframe a stalled negotiation. As you mirror them, you say, I totally understand why you're frustrated.

I totally get it. Let's walk away. You pull. And then you say, but if this were to go forward, what does winning look like to you? And then you put them in a position where they get to say either,

well, it doesn't look like anything, which is a weird way to answer a question, or what they usually say is they tell you their number one fear and they give you the end to go and fix the fear. And that's how you do it. That's so good. So new episodes coming out, December 5th.

Yeah, season two, owning Manhattan, the greatest TV show in the history of the world. Honestly, the trailer looks great. I'm not a big reality to show, Gurley, which is not good to say to you, I guess. But it looks fascinating. And I'm excited to see you build live. Yeah. We shot Netflix shoots in real time. They give us complete creative control.

Wow. And because it's not sold into syndication like cable, like million dollar listing was the law and order of real estate. Because whether it's season three, episode five or season nine, episode two, right, cable TV is sold all over the world. Someone's got to be able to turn on the TV, watch it, and understand what's going on. On Netflix, you search. It's all about search. And there's interest graphs and what they call taste circles. So owning Manhattan is an entrepreneurial, aspirational,

sexy taste circle. And it's an eight-hour movie, right? It's eight episodes. And so what we're able to do is really craft the wildest story without worrying that someone's gonna randomly turn on season two episode five. You wouldn't, you could do that.

I think they did that with like band or snatch. But then it's just complicated, right? Watch every episode however you want to. Which was an experiment that Netflix did, which basically was like, watch this TV show the way you would watch. watch Law & Order. There's no narrative thread. It's just what case is this episode going to be? And owning Manhattan is unlike any reality TV show I've ever seen. It has narrative thread. It has

voiceover. I break the fourth wall, house of card style. And you get to watch in real time as a company is built, more so in season two. I think I sell an $8 million apartment this season live while getting out of the shower. From the negotiation towards deal done, I am butt naked to putting on my shirt between both parties and the camera barely even cuts. Like, I've never seen anything like that before and I think it's the evolution of the genre. I think people are sick and tired of knowing what's coming next.

And owning Manhattan is the exact opposite of that. That's why we deadlift, even when you don't like it in the morning. That's why you're up at 4.30. Eat the frog. Yeah. Ryan Sirhan, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me.