BigDeal - #22 Joshua Weissman: Monetizing Your Passion and Building an Online Empire

Episode Date: August 7, 2024

In this episode, Codie Sanchez joins Joshua Weissman in his kitchen studio to discuss everything from how he got into creating content to the importance of controlling emotional response. Codie also talks about who should actually be starting a restaurant, the business of chefs creating content, and how one creator made millions off of All Things Butter. Want help scaling your business to $1M in monthly revenue? ⁠Click here⁠ to connect with my consulting team. Record your first video https://creators.riverside.fm/Codie and use code CODIE for 15% off an individual plan. Chapters 00:00 START  01:53 Food and Happiness: Are They Correlated? 05:27 The Art and Craft of Food 08:19 The Restaurant Industry: Passion and Hardships 13:49 Dealing with Criticism and Bullying 21:54 The Evolution of Food Media 26:26 Monetization and Signature Moves 31:12 Creating Engaging Content 43:32 The Relentless Pursuit of Quality 44:03 Lessons from the Restaurant Industry 45:12 The Art of Book Launching 46:23 Creative Marketing Strategies 51:42 Balancing Goals and Growth 57:15 Cooking for Others vs. Yourself 01:03:38 The Importance of Cooking in Relationships 01:18:58 The Business of Restaurants 01:21:58 Becoming a Chefluencer MORE FROM BIGDEAL: 🎥 ⁠YouTube⁠ 📸 ⁠Instagram⁠ 📽️ ⁠TikTok⁠ MORE FROM CODIE SANCHEZ: 🎥 ⁠YouTube⁠ 📸 ⁠Instagram⁠ 📽️ ⁠TikTok⁠ OTHER THINGS WE DO: 🫂 ⁠Our community⁠ 📰 ⁠Free newsletter⁠ 🏦 ⁠Biz buying course⁠ 🏠 ⁠Resibrands⁠ 💰 ⁠CT Capital⁠ 🏙️ ⁠Main St Hold Co⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I was really bothered with what was being produced in entertainment and food. What the f*** is going on? No one is fixing it and I was like, I'll fix it. The contact game is, it is the most competitive gamer is. And you are competing for the highest and most expensive commodity that we have in the state age, which is people's attention. The number one lesson that I learned, you can become great at anything if you are willing to perform the relentless amount of repetition that it requires to become great at it.

The two hours of sleep every night, that was not by accident. I didn't accidentally hustle my ass off. I love this podcast because I love talking to friends about how they made their millions and helping business owners solve their problems. It's fulfilling. I love sharing all the secrets. But what I can't meet in person, there's only one tool I use. It's called Riverside. Riverside ensures I can talk to someone anywhere in the world, recorded in 4K, so the quality of the video matches the quality of the humans you're listening to. Riverside records separate audio and video tracks so we can easily cut out those awkward interruptions that are my least favorite part of interviews. They have in-platform editing software based off a 99% accurate AI transcription. If that's that, that's not a lot of simple enough, they take AI one step further for their show notes. It summarizes your entire content into an SEO optimized description and chapters all automatic saves me a ton of money. So you can use Riverside for podcast interviews, panel discussions, presentations,

presentations, webinars, more. And best of all, it's simple. Try Riverside for yourself with link in the description. Use code Cody for an exclusive discount. I get a deal, you get a deal. Hey everyone. I'm Cody Sanchez and this is the Big Deal podcast. For those who don't just want to be rich but free and do what it actually takes to get there. Today, you're in for treat with a friend of mine who has accumulated 9 million followers on YouTube, tens of millions across multiple platforms. His name is Joshua Wiseman. If you haven't watched his cooking channels, I don't really know where you've been. You've probably been under a rock. But the reason I brought a chef on to talk to you guys today is for a couple different reasons. One, we talk about food and

happiness. Are they correlated? Two, we talk about attention and what it means to be the best in today's world and to go where the attention sits. And the third thing we do is we talk about the differentiation that one can have if one decides to pursue this beautiful thing, which is giving another the gift of sustenance, one of the few things that we need to continue on a go-forward basis. We also go over a deal of the week. If you're not subscribed on YouTube, you should definitely go over there right now because you get to see the inside scoop of a studio that he built out for half a million bucks that

is so sweet that has racked up way more than a half a million views. Right the band in Joshua Weissman So excited for you to be here I want to talk about the fact That you have You know Tens of millions of followers

Cumulative Across multiple social platforms And we're going to talk about food We're going to talk about health We're going to talk about nurturing people But I kind of want to start with something else When you have tens of millions of people following you You get a unique perspective

into the human psyche Oh yeah Do you think that people are happier Today than when you were first creating YouTube videos like what nine years ago when you started? Probably not. You know, I think, I don't know why exactly. I think that there could be socioeconomic pressures right now. So much has changed in like a five year or maybe three to five year time span with COVID and just weird wacky shit happening that's never happened before in society like your used car is now $20,000

over MSRP even though it has 40,000 miles on it and inflation and everything's more expensive. And then a pandemic. And then after the pandemic, I guess it's fine, but is it fine? And like everyone's so confused. You know, after society's gone through all these weird filters, it's kind of like shredded them down to the bone, almost, I feel like. And so happiness level seems to be significantly lower. Or the way that they deal with their feelings has definitely changed.

It's like the age of the hater in a way, right? But that's okay. I also think it'll go away. I think it's a phase. But if you scroll on Instagram, you're probably, probably going to find a negative comment 80% of the time and 20% of the time you'll find a positive one at the top. Totally. So basically, you know, one of the interesting things I think for all of us is there's a bunch of data that shows that social media in many ways makes us less happy. Yeah.

I think your videos do a beautiful job of a little bit the opposite of that. Like even if I don't want to do the cooking, I like watching yours because it's funny, it's fun, it's ephemeral, It's engaging in all your senses. Plus, there's no calories. I just get to watch it. I wish I could add smell to one of the senses to engage. That'd be crazy. Your phone was like poof and out.

I think that'd be a problem. No, because then I'd be hungry. It's enough to just look at it. And then I funnel that into my Uber Eats thing, and then you're paying me. This is a business podcast. So this is exactly where we're going. Exactly. That's probably.

When it comes to your content in particular, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because you have unique ways. that you think about food. Like, for instance, I read this quote from you. I just want them to feel something from food. I want to make something that makes them think a little deeper about it. Even someone who's not into food, Cody, knowing that somebody spent three months developing what's on the plate,

that it took 72 hours to get all the different components of a repair, and that you're going to eat it in 30 seconds. That's crazy. And in my words, also beautiful. How do you think about food? Yeah, I mean, it's a great point. I mean, when you look at like art, for example, and I think food is art. And I mean, it is the culinary arts, so just so everybody knows.

When you look at like other forms of art, though, and that can be a painting. It could be music. It could be, honestly, it could be cars. Like, if you're into cars, like, you know, automobiles or motorsport, right? People look at these things that were, you know, that you spent endless and endless amounts of time creating different manufacturers or, I don't know, art director. whoever came in to make it possible and all these different people and moving parts and then they solidify it into this official final thing. And maybe there's multiple drafts. Maybe there's 100 drafts, a thousand drafts. Nobody knows. And not to mention all the failed drafts that led to the understanding to get to that product. And then it's solidified and crystallized in times in some form or another, right? But music would be a song and it's there forever. With a book, it'd be a book and it's there forever. With a painting, it's there forever. The irony about food is that same level of attention to detail, care, passion, stress, practice, craftsmanship goes into it, but it is made to be instantaneously destroyed and shit out, literally.

Right? Like, the weirdest form of art I can think of just because it's sole purpose is to be destroyed. And so it's kind of this hypocritical, weird, silly thing that for some reason people in food choose to do. Well, I think what's lovely in food in particular, and I think we'd be happier as a society, is if, you know, I walk into a restaurant, and there's two things that my business brain goes to right away. One is like, what can we be doing differently here? How can we maximize revenue? Like, little sickness. I think about when I sit down is really, man, how lucky are we that somebody

determined that they wanted to spend their life perfecting the ability to feed us beautifully? And I think a lot of young people today don't see the full history. There's kind of a snapshot shop moment that whatever comes out and is put in front of me is, in essence, all there is. And they don't realize there's this beautiful essay called Eye Pencil. Have you ever heard it? No. It's an economics essay. We can link it. It's beautiful. And it basically talks about how, if you want to understand the depth of the economy, you should look at one pencil. And because the pencil, basically, they explain all the complexities that go into it, from like the lead that has to be created,

to the wood that has to be chopped down from a rainforest. And it goes all the way through it to the pencil finally get it in your hands. Oh, yeah. And so it basically talks about this interconnectedness of humanity. And I think about that a lot with food. That there's this beautiful ability at the end of the day for somebody else to decide they want to serve me.

And wow, like, aren't we kind of lucky to have that? Totally. And maybe if we saw that more often, we'd realize there was magic all around. But what's interesting is a lot of people actually have the opposite reaction to restaurants these days. I mean, if you think about movies, chefs are really intense.

And working in restaurants is super whole. and no you know and business you know restaurants don't stay in business but you actually really liked working in restaurants yeah you talk about it really positively you got to have somebody who has a different opinion that's not so negative right we can sit and talk about glamour that people want to hear which is how hard it is working 14 hour days coming in on my day off and not getting paid to work on a special because that was fun and you're not getting paid to work on a special but in any other company they would fucking pay you, right? We could talk about that and get people all riled up

and get people excited about how fucked up it is to work in a restaurant. Or we could take a step back and be like, well, wait a minute, but people still continually choose to do it, don't they? Why? Because there's more to it than just this like brutalist beat-up society. It's something that's been driven by passion for generations since the dawn of the first restaurant. It is quite literally partially the nature of how a restaurant

must operate to serve you great food. So just as much as someone would be critical to, you know, speak negatively about that lifestyle, they're also equally happy to go sit down at a 10-course meal and wine and die in their husband or wife or whatever and pretend that doesn't exist. It all exists because of the passion and love that people have to do it. And in a weird way, so for my perspective, for example, or I wouldn't allow myself to stay in certain toxic environments. I knew what was good and what was not good.

So I look back fondly on the places I worked at because I chose to work at places that weren't that bad. Not to say I haven't had pots and pants thrown in my head. Trust me, I have. But in a weird way, like, you have to just be that sort of fucked up twisted person that loves the grind, that loves being intense, that loves the perfectionism. And that's part of the art. The biggest difference between working in food and any other artistic job or career is the whole point is to suffer for, what's going on the plate.

That is what creating art is is you suffer for the art. Some of the greatest art pieces ever created were created out of suffering. I'm not saying it's required to make great art. I'm just saying that it's part of the context. What I loved about it was the camaraderie.

It was the going to battle every night. It was like being this insane practitioner slash craftsman and being a room full of people who feel the same fucking way every day. Like there's not one person who's getting to like fucking scrub this tiny little part of the

plate because it has to be that perfect. No one's in question of who the fuck they are in that building. And that's badass because most people don't know who they are. Rare. Yeah. Now you left this restaurant job to do something that people in the restaurant industry, especially at the time, probably thought it was bad shit crazy. Yeah, totally.

Yeah, it's true. You were going to go create videos online instead of working out of Michigan. starred restaurant and becoming a real chef. Now you were going to be a YouTuber. How did you decide to do that? Now it probably seems reasonable and lots of people are jumping into it. But back then, especially as young as you were, not that reasonable. Yeah, well, I should clarify that Uchi is not Michelin-Star just for anyone who was watching this. I'm trying to remember how that felt. What happened? Like, what was, tell me about the moment where you made that decision, even. To leave? Yeah, and to go do this different crazy thing. Well, honestly, you would think that I, most people would

think that I was stupid to wait that long based off of like what I was making on on YouTube. Like it was like totally overshattering when I was making $11 an hour. At the time, I mean, obviously we've scaled this into like a substantial business. But at the time when you're just one person, you're making like 40K a month, it's like what the fuck is going on? Like you're making literally the cook salary every month. Like what is going on? Let me give you a very brief intro into how it led into that. So when I started doing, doing it, I was very gung-ho about getting into the entertainment slash teaching side of food because I was really bothered with what was being produced in entertainment and food.

And I still, what really drove me was like, I just feel like these people don't care about food. They are not practitioners. They have not worked in restaurants. But all that aside, it's just the fact that they didn't care is what drove me so insane. And I was like, this stuff could be so much better. And no one's fixing it.

No one is fixing it. And I was like, I'll fix it. I can fix this shit. And so I started making YouTube videos. The funny thing is when I started was when I got the most pushback from people. Because people were like, dude, like just go home and rest. Yeah, because I wasn't sleeping. I slept for like two, three hours a night for almost a year while I was producing videos.

The only way I could make it happen, make full-time restaurant and YouTube work at the same time. When I left, honestly, I think most people were like, that makes sense. because it was just like the grind I was putting into it. Most people were like fucking, hell yeah, dude. You know, it was cool. But leading up to leaving, though, before all that, most people wouldn't make fun of me, you know, which is fine. Like, that's part of, like, we all razz each other.

I didn't, I wasn't like going home crying, you know, but they'd be like, Josh, going to go film a YouTube video when you go home? I'd be like, fuck, yeah, I am, you little bitch, you know? And that was like kind of the vibe. So did you just, have you always been the type of person who just kind of ignores when people make fun of you or think that something you're doing is goofy? No, no. When I was a kid, I was super overweight, and so I got bullied pretty significantly.

But I think that kind of like gave me a pretty thick skin early on. And I mean, I ended up losing all the weight, which was great. I lost like 140 pounds when I was like 16. So, you know, in a weird way, they kind of pushed me to do that. So it's hard to, I regain this new perspective where I was like, I mean, you know, They were mean to me and they made fun of me and I'm not saying it was right. And the way they went about it was way, way, way, not okay. And I don't condone bullying.

But it did push me in a direction that changed my life, which made me realize, oh, I can like literally just change something in my life and make good things happen for myself if I'm willing to put in the work. Okay, cool. And that attitude stuck with me from that moment forever. So the whole like people saying negative things about me kind of was this wash after that. In some point, do you get sort of inspired by it? I mean, sometimes I think when I find people that are high performers,

it's often, I'd rather take somebody who had less talent and a bigger chip on their shoulder than more talent and no chip at all. Huge. Very good point. I agree with that, actually, a lot. For me, it's not always, it depends. You have to also be able to put it through the filter and understand what kind of, you know, hate or bullying you're getting.

Because there's, like, some that might be true that maybe you can work on or look into. There's some that are totally like, you know, bad shit crazy. There's no correlation. That one you can kind of just be like, this person's not okay. I hope you're doing better, Bill from Wyoming. I hope you're doing better. Like, Bill, take the kids out, you know, something. Touch some grasper.

Yeah, touch some grasper. Like drink, drink kombucha. You know, I've heard that like the mind gut connection now. So you have to be able to decipher what's real, what's not real. But yeah, I definitely draw motivation from it. It doesn't bother me. It doesn't make me mad. Anyone who's worked in restaurants for long enough, for sure,

you have to learn how to take an aggressive beatdown as, what can I learn from this? And it's not personal. Don't take everything so personally. You know, their words. Are there mental models that you use to not take things personally and not catch feelings when you get feedback and pushback? The first thing is recognizing feelings will always be there.

Can't make feelings go away. feelings are out of your control. Sometimes I do get feelings. Nowadays I don't really. Honestly, I'm kind of like, I don't want to seem numb to it, but I just, I'm seeing the same thing over and over. I'm like, okay, cool. That was an original. Let's try something new. If you do get feelings, that's going to happen. The biggest determiner is what you do, right? Like, you just have to decide how you want to react to those feelings. And if you're able to get into this habit of every time a feeling hits you, it goes into the, into your brain. You mentally process the feeling. You feel it. You feel it. feel bad, you will feel bad, that's not going to not feel bad. And you choose to not react in the

way that you, in the negative way that you think you should, whether that's like, you know, for example, if someone comments something negative or DMs you something negative and it could be a close friend, it could be a relative, right? This happens all the time with relatives. Relatives says something, oh, I don't know if I like this new guy you're dating, you know, or whatever. Then you get that DM. It hits you emotionally. And it, maybe this one really. hurts and you're like, fuck you, grandma, I'm fucking shined on you today. Just stop for like, you can literally just not do anything for a second, sit in it, let yourself, you know, be as anxious as you want to be, and then think to yourself before anything. What would be the logical

response in this scenario right now? And so in that scenario, you might go, I'm just not going to respond right now. I'm going to give this a couple hours. I'm really upset and really mad. Maybe I want to cry. Maybe you do cry. Cool. but you're not going to engage, you're not going to respond to it for the day. And then tomorrow you think about it again. Just make the rule to not respond. Cool. Okay.

Next day comes around, oh, I don't really care anymore. Or maybe you do still care, but you don't care enough to respond. And then, okay, then wait another day. And that feeling will go away. Feelings will always go away. But the action that you choose to take might be permanent. When you were working in restaurants, was there ever time that somebody made you cry?

Yeah, definitely. But I never showed it, though. Anyone who's worked in a rush out totally knows what this is like where you kind of like have that like teary eyed but you like don't you like hold it you're like you hold the tears in like I've definitely had that happen a few times I've been what happened I've never cried from people being mean I've cried from being called out and looked like I was a bad practitioner or looked like I was bad at my craft because that is like you know in the past when you're coming up that's like the one thing

that matters the most. And it's the one thing you're most insecure about because you're like, am I seasoning things well enough? Or like, oh, you know, my fish, my fish butchery could be better. And I don't know if I want people to see how I break down like a fish. And then you break down a fish and then someone says something. Um, geez, there was this one time that, uh, goddale, and I really hope that I don't know, people that I work where they're watching this. I was making a gas streak and a gastric is really basic it's like basically the best way to describe is like a french sweet and sour sauce that's not what it is but it's like reduced sugar vinegar and it's like a viscous sauce and i put in a pot on the stove and i was leading a team of like six people um so i put on the stove and it takes a while

to boil and reduce down like 20 30 minutes so like cool i'll leave that there i'll come back and check on a second and i start working on a bunch of things this guy's fucking this up and i got to show them how to do this and i'm like don't do it like this do like this i go about my day and i'm just walking around doing my thing. And then the pastry chef comes up to me, just like, hey, Josh, your pan's out of fire. And I'm like, I'm like, this happens. It's not that big of a deal. I'm like, oh, fine, it's fine. I'll take care of it. I walk over there. And it's not just on fire. It is on fucking fire. Like, literally, this pot's not that big. It's like this big around this deep. And it's shooting a flame like six feet into the air, like a conical jet engine.

And I'm like, what? How is this? This is sugar and white distilled vinegar. How is this even happening? And I'm like, oh, no worries. I know how to handle a fire. Pour kosher salt on it. Suffolkated with salt, which is like a pretty common technique. Pour salt on it. Covers it, nice hill, stops the fire. And then like this little flame pokes through.

And then it just erupts again. And I'm like, how is this? What is happening? The vice president of the restaurant group, like the VP of the restaurant group. This guy has been working there since the beginning. He's worked every position in the kitchen. And he walks in and he's like,

who the fuck did this stupid ass shit and everyone just looks at me and I'm like um I did chef I did that he looks at me and he just goes who the fuck led you lead you lead this team and then grabs the pan and walks out with the fire going everywhere and walks it outside and uh i remember just like standing there it's just like dead quiet and I'm like don't cry don't cry don't He was right to be that mad. It was pretty bad. It could have, like, burned down the whole kitchen, you know, so it was pretty bad. And then I went out there and, like, he was super chill.

He was, like, hey, look, I'm sorry. He was actually really cool about it afterwards. But, yeah, I almost cried. I feel that one for you. Yeah. Well, I always used to think that, like, finance was the worst, that investment banking and we were mean to each other. And then I've had now a bunch of friends that are chefs.

And you guys take it to a different level. And I think there's, like, some good and bad to that. And the good is you've basically gone to the job. gym of feedback and difficulty so often every day, actually, that the rest of life is kind of a lot easier. Totally. There's also discipline, too. You can hide discipline.

But in a restaurant, you cannot hide discipline. Because if you are undisciplined, it visually shows, and you will eventually get kicked out of that kitchen if you decide to, you know, tread that water like that for too long. It seems to me, when I look at, like, historically the industry of food, you had basically you had chefs and you had chefs who were great, you know, regionally or even in their individual cities. And then you

got kind of these like superstar chefs, which was TV-based superstar chefs. And then those have really given way to now social media. I don't even know if I always want to say chefs. Some of them are chefs like you, but many are not. And what is your take

on, is it true that like the most successful and best chefs today, are moving online. And if we categorize success as monetary, perhaps, is this the future of like big names in food? Or will it always be at a Michelin-Star restaurant? Well, I think big names depends on what you mean by big names.

First to categorize that, if you work in restaurants, a big name in food is going to always be somebody that no one has ever heard of unless you work in that, right? It's sort of like, I guess, maybe in business, right? Yeah. You know, everyone knows like the Warren Buffett. Oh, what about Warren Buffett? But like, I'm sure there's tons of business people that, you know, that you love or aspire to or have drawn energy from that you might say that I have no idea who they are, right?

But to you, they're like a fucking superstar. And that exists in food. So if we were to take that out of the equation, I guess, I guess the best way we could look at it is like television versus the Internet. which back in the day was always like the Martha Stewart's, the Eindigartons, the Gordon Ramsey's, the, you know, people that I looked up to when I was a kid. Like Gordon Ramsey was like, I've always said he's been my North Star since I was a kid. I got into restaurants because of him and Anthony Bourdain, those two people were like literally the two people where I was like, you know, and this is coming from a place where I already wanted to work in food. The internet, I don't know. It's like kind of everything now, right?

If you're going to own a business, you should be on the internet. If you're going to have a restaurant, what are you doing not being on social media like it's it's not even a question for anybody now in terms of fame popularity or i don't know growing an audience or who is the next gordon ramsi me um where is the attention it is not on tv as much nearly as it is on the internet there's really only a few places that people put their attention i would break it up based off of their desired experience and by that I mean people have different modes

for different types of consumption now before it was like you either watch television or you go to the movies pick one and have a nice day and you had two options it was like oh I'm gonna watch one episode or something's 20, 30 minutes long chill watch that, eh

maybe you binge and watch a couple episodes if you have it on DVD or you can go and spend an hour and a half or two hours and make a big event out of it and have dinner and go out with the family and go see a movie that's dead done

it's gone it's not coming back it will never come back. Now, I'm not saying you can't go out and have fun with your friends and watch a movie. I'm just saying that now there's so many other ways to consume. So to me, it seems inevitable that, you know, whatever the previous idea of the biggest name in food being on television, I don't think that that exists anymore as much today. But it just, I don't know, it depends.

I don't have a crystal ball. It just depends on where the attention is. And to me, it seems quite diffused at the time. And even the biggest heads in television and entertainment are looking at that and going, you know, and they're thinking, kind of scratching their chin thinking, well, what can we do to, you know, build this out properly? I don't think anyone's going to, you know, die in the process. I do think that there will be like mergers, but it seems to me that the Internet is the place that people go to consume food media. Yeah, totally. I was meeting with an A24 executive the other day, and she was telling me that in their conversation with the streaming services, all of them are sort of pondering how to include. like streamed first-person POV or user-generated content

into their systems. It actually is crazy when she was explaining it to me. I'm like, that is wild. That actually Netflix has no optionality for anything like that. Because it seems like such a low-hanging fruit for them and it would be free as opposed to how expensive their cost is. Totally. How else could you compete against YouTube, which costs them $0. It costs you a half a million dollars to build this location.

If they were going to do a Netflix series, have to build it all, but you've already done it. And they could just stream you on the service, just like YouTube does. So it'll be interesting to see if that happens. Yeah, totally. Well, let's talk about the monetization of food online and entertainment. I was looking at a bunch of these online food, cookers, chefs, et cetera. And I was kind of laughing because everybody's got a tagline, right? So you've got like, you've got like, uh, alleviated. who says like, Horngrie and, you know,

who is that? That's, uh, is that somebody else? Oh, who is that? My husband's going to be so upset that I can't remember. Yeah, Susie.

Olivia, though, is the one that flicks off the camera. Yes, Olivia. Olivia, so it's funny. This actually happened really recently. So Olivia's a friend of mine. Uh-huh.

She came here. She flew out. We, you know, filmed two videos. It was super fun. She was very chill. I appreciated that very much.

And she, like, blew up out of nowhere. It was crazy. Uh-huh. And then there's this other girl, Susie Vidal, I think it is. And I actually had just discovered her, like, I don't know, a week ago. Olivia texted me and she goes, do you know Susie? And I was like, oh, yeah, I saw one of her videos like yesterday, which was, you know, it was a day or whatever.

I'd recently seen him. I was like, yeah, I think I know you're talking about. And she was like, dude, Susie has been watching you for like four years. Like, we got to get together. So anyway, shout out Susie and Olivia. And I thought it was kind of brilliant because she has this like instead of only fans, it's only pans. And then she instead of being hungry,

she asks if you're hungry. It's like perfect for our generation. It's great. Yeah. And then Olivia has the little flip off. And then you have multiple signature moves from like the eyebrow. Are those, were those cultives?

Do you guys get together for one liners? All of mine are not intentional at all. I think they're just like tics or something that I do at this stage. Like I have a camera on me all the time. So I just like kind of do shit. I've never intended to create any taglines. but sometimes the audience you know honestly I just do things and I pick up on when the audience loves a little thing that I do and you know maybe sometimes I do it more often because I know they like it

and I do it for fun you'll notice if you look through my comments like everyone so I was kind of the one who started like really going deep dive on big recipe content that does big views that's applicable for everybody right and so because of that I used to make this joke where I would go what did I say? It sort of started along the lines of. I started to get annoyed with people because they would ask so many questions that I had already answered.

So I was like doing voiceover. And one time I was like, don't worry sweethear, right? Papa's got you. And I just did it sort of as like a, you know, a silly joke. I don't know what happened, but I got into like people's like daddy issues

and daddy kinks because of that. But also just people in general because of like the fact that I'm like teaching and people are kind of looking to me for direction, people refer to me as Papa, like, in person and in the comments and in my names. I'm only calling you a Papa from now on. Yeah, it's a real thing.

It's a real thing. Like, all my comments, like, I posted this video, like, I've been, like, dieting for a while. I'm certainly, like, finally get some physique response. You know, your guy's too damn good looking. I'm, like, trying to compete with him in the gym. I see him doing something. I said you guys were working out the other day. Yeah, he's good looking.

He's a good-looking one. So I'm like, I'm over. Yeah, good work, good work. Anyway, so I've gotten more fit and I posted this video of me like, it was like my exposed back. I don't know why I did it, but I was like... It was very saucy. Yeah. Let's show the video. It was unintentionally saucy, really. Okay. It was like, you were like that chick that like kind of wants to show you her out of like not all the way. You were like kind of over your shoulder. It was great. My intention, you know what's fine. The back looks good. The way, but thank you. I've noticed that my, I think that's like my biggest asset. I realize that I have good jeans for a good back. And I saw it and I was like, holy shit, like I really built my back out.

This is going to show how lean I've gotten because I've had this back and forth in my audience. I'm like, I'm getting shredded this year. This is happening so they know I'm doing it. And so I was like, I'm going to show off my leanness because you can see how lean I am in my back. And it was just a video that I took. The video was like two minutes long. I just did the part that showed off how lean my back was. And I was like, oh, people will get it.

No, dude. No. And so everyone's like, Papa. More like daddy. And like, Jesus Christ, y'all, I am married. She probably thinks it's funny, too. Yeah, she's actually less enthused about it anyway. She's just like, yeah, you look good.

And I was like, oh, cool, cool. You know what? I think mustaches, goatees, and probably your back are just for other dudes. Yeah, it's true. You know? So true. I think that's my husband's the same way. Beards, it's not for me.

It's for every other day. It's crazy. Way more than women do, for sure. When you create your content, you were like, I think one of the early people to create food, ASMR cooking videos. Probably not. And do you even call your videos that? Because I think it's kind of a cool idea.

Like, if I'm listening to this right now as the audience, and I'm thinking of creating content in some way, shape, or form, you talked earlier about, like, I wish I could make them smell. Well, you can't do that, but you can make them hear, you can make them feel, and you can make them see. Totally. But a lot of times people forget the tactile sensation of hearing and how addictive it is. Yeah.

I don't know that I started the ASMR ones, like generally, but I know for sure that I was the first, if not one of the very first, like you could count on one hand that was producing food content on TikTok. That's where the short form, right? Because there wasn't even IG Reels at the time.

It was just TikTok. YouTube shorts didn't exist. IG Reels didn't exist. It was very sort of a silly underground place to be. If you want to know who got me into it, it was Gary. Smart.

He's not. not often wrong about social media. No, he's not. I'll listen to anything that man tells me. But I was lucky enough to kind of, you know, I built a relationship with him and his team, and, you know, we talk from time to time, and he's great.

You know, I love him. And I remember him, like, just constantly posting about TikTok, and this was very early on. I went on there and started producing content, and they blew up every goddamn time. Because it was the only one doing it. So it was very much of lots of attention,

very little production of content. content. I just kind of ran with it. And then everything, I like to call all these like different TikTokers and short form people, my children, because they're, they don't realize that they're all copying, they may not be copying me directly, but they're copying someone else who copied me or someone else who copied them who copied who another person, another person, it ultimately leads to me. Because the whole quick cut editing style stuff started with that. Like you like slap the bread, slap the bread, throw the butter on, sizzles. Sizzling, lots of like, you know, unfortunately in the beginning, I did a lot of sexual

innuendos. I noticed that they got pretty good traction. So I did utilize that. Here's a funny story for one that I did. I used to slap my butt, which I really regretted. I really regret doing this. I used to, I used to like, I used to show my ass, not my whole ass. Just a little piece. So what happened was there was one video that I, this was when I was just me editing. Not a very good editor, by the way. And I was editing a short form or TikTok video. This is like maybe my fourth or fifth or six TikTok video, maybe 10th. And they all did pretty good. I upload the video and it does like 8 million views in like less than an hour. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on with this? This one's going crazy. It's not even that good of a video. I'm actually pissed off at this.

Well, why didn't the pizza one do better than this? You know, it was like some random, it was like a grilled cheese or I don't even remember. And I accidentally left in about 25% into the video. There's this shot where I meant to cut off the back half of that clip but I didn't. And it was five seconds left in the clip that I didn't cut. And in that five seconds, I turned around and bent over to grab something out of the drawer. I guess I cut it, I didn't cut it short enough. So I didn't cut it, but not short enough.

And so it's literally just me turning around a full ass bending over. The only reason I realized that is I went into the comments and they're like, Jesus Christ, he's got two yellow onions back there. That's crazy. I started doing that. And they went viral every time I did it. And then I stopped doing it because I was like, this is weird. And now other people do that too.

Have you seen that guy, the guy that sexualizes everything in food? I can't remember. Is it like Cedric something? No, what does he do? Cedric Lorenzen. Oh, I got to check this out. I don't even know if you can show a clip. Really?

It's really sexual. Okay, we're definitely showing a clip. So let's see if we get kicked off YouTube. Also that other guy who says like Bon Appetito Betches or something. Oh, QCP? Yeah, CPC. He's wild. There seems to be a formula for,

cooking at this moment videos. And cooking videos, the formula seems to be like there's obviously some ASMR component of it that has to be cut pretty quick. It has to be like relatively accessible recipes. Like they can't be too wild and crazy. Yeah. And then there's some funny entertainment aspect to it. I would agree. Do you have like a formula? You're like, this is what works now. I also think there's another thing in that as well. Yeah. I think it's or you have presence. People know who you are. Right? If Cameron Diaz was in this kitchen and I took a video of her and she had no formula,

I think it would probably do pretty good. Right? That's true. It's Cameron Diaz. Yeah. People know me pretty well in me and food already. And they know me because of my YouTube channel and so on and so forth. So I think that honestly a lot of my videos do well just because it's me.

Yeah. And I don't really always consider formula. But we do have generally. a direction of video is going to go before we produce it. I think the number one thing, the formula that I always follow is, honestly, I follow my own viewing intuition, very much of like timed cuts, if that makes sense. So I'm very formulaic on how long the attention span last per cut.

And that's really the main thing that I follow. But like in terms of a saying or like having a saying or whatever, that might make sense for someone starting out that doesn't have a presence already. I feel like if you are starting out and you don't know where to begin, especially with food content, what you should do is figure out who you are as a person and reflect that. Don't create a character because a lot of people create characters. And I don't think that that's a great way to be happy. Now, I think you get stuck.

Yeah, find who you are and emphasize that. You know, if you're like the quiet person who's awkward, fucking let that out. Be awkward on camera. be quiet and weird. I'm telling you, we'll do well. There are so many videos of weird-ass shit that do well. And I think that that will cultivate an audience of people who associate with that type of a person.

You're pretty much exactly the person I see in your videos, except maybe your videos have a slightened volume to an up effect. Totally. But like everything you do on them, I go, oh yeah, I've seen that face before. Like just hanging out. I don't put on a character. If anything, I just, I put myself in a moment.

I'm like, oh, what's the energy in this shot? And I just need to bring that energy out, right? If I was like, you know, I show up and it's 9 a.m. And, you know, I just had my coffee and I've already worked out. And I'm maybe just still kind of like, you know, in my head about something that bothered me earlier. And I show up on set. And I know that we're filming pickups for a shot that's 10 minutes into a video. I'm not going to be like, all right.

And then you put the butter in the pan. You know, it's like, well, they've been watching for 10 minutes. And I was talking a certain way. I just need to bring that back in, you know. So that's the other way. How do you, you guys create a ton of content. Yep. And you create really high value content.

And you seem to go viral every single time. You're getting huge views across multiple platforms. How do you keep the creative aspect flowing with the fact that you're like a production house now? If you make a video and it does crazy views, the first thing you should do is not give a fuck. You need to get out of the whatever. feelings you have attached with those you use, you need to murder those feelings and look at it formulaically and figure out how to rinse and repeat that process. But honestly, the bigger you get, people think it's like, there are things that are easier. It's wonderful to have a production

company. You know, I pay people pretty well. And it's expensive to run a company. Very expensive, actually. Look, I'm not going to say numbers, but the simple reality is if you are going to run a business and you're going to produce content and you're going to pay people, please understand that it is going to be, it's going to feel very volatile, it's going to feel very stressful, it's going to feel very pressuring, and now all of a sudden the videos that you're producing,

they have to perform. So how do you make that work? Well, you need to have a thick skin. You need to be ready to like, that should not bother you. You should still be able to be creative and expressive. And how are you creative and expressive by not being stressed out? Good luck with that. So I think a lot of people will fail there.

So first ask yourself that that's, something you want to live with. But that said, the way that we do it is it's very feeling-based. I have, you know, my top performers that I, that are always by my side, we're always working together on creative. I mean, you saw it on the front of these doors. We have written on the front of our doors to the kitchen, says, honor the audience. I think in the same way for a chef, what makes a great chef is not just making good food. That should be the easy part. Good food should be the easiest fucking part of your job. What makes a great chef is first being the artist, but also being the business person, being the financial analyst, being the marketer. That's what

makes a great chef. So if that's what makes a great chef, then to me, that's what would make a great content production studio is you have to be both. And the best way to mesh it is to bring out your creative, allow yourself to be creative, come up with things that resonate with you, because if they resonate with you, they'll probably resonate with your audience, but then find a way to honor their presence when they're watching you, which means, you know what, I love this shot. I don't think everyone's going to love this shot as much as I am. I just don't. Like, I just know. I know that people will watch this two-minute segment of me doing this thing and maybe, you know, maybe 100,000 people will appreciate it, but I need 9 million people to appreciate it.

Yeah. It's really true. I think one of the toughest parts that I've realized about the contact game is it is the most competitive game there is. There is zero moat to this game and you are competing for the highest and most expensive commodity that we have in this day and age, which is people's attention. It is the only thing that we cannot create more of, and we have infinite optionality for what to do with it. It's true. I mean, you are competing with Donald Trump in the same time that you're competing with the hottest news Star Wars movie, in the same time that you're competing with every single TikToker

and actually the algorithm of TikTok driving the most viral things out there. And it's free. And it's free. Anybody can do this. Right. You're competing with every single human being on planet Earth because anyone can walk in and just make content. So I think it's a really good thing to ask yourself,

do you actually want to play this game? Very competitive. You have to have a thick skin. But also, I think the biggest thing, because I feel like the way I said it made, it sound like I don't enjoy this. I love this shit. Like, I love doing this.

Like, I love it so much that the competition is not me. I don't feel like I'm competing with it. anybody. I don't feel like I'm fighting to beat X person. I'm fighting because I want to do this forever. And if somebody thinks that they're going to beat me because they want to make better content than me, specifically, they will lose to me. They will lose. Why do you think you have that type of attitude? It's sort of like fighting for necessity over fighting for glamour. And I think when you fight for glamour, you eventually will fizzle out and lose not just steam in terms of like viewership, but you'll lose the motivation to do it over time.

Because if you're fighting for something that doesn't actually really matter to you and actually matters more to other people, like your image and how fancy you look and this, that, and the other, yeah, you're going to run out of energy. It's really hard. Like, you really have to, like, be fighting for something that feels more like necessity and something that you, you know, I fight to continue to do what I do.

I love to do this. I want to do it forever. And, yeah. I mean, that's a tough argument to be. I was thinking about this idea yesterday that I'm calling the Law of Moore, which is basically if you look at some of the best producers or artists of all time, like Picasso, you mentioned before, Picasso has something like 200,000 prints and paintings that he did to become the most prolific artist of all time.

If you look at Taylor Swift, she was like back and forth between being on tour or creating an album for the entirety of her careers, and she's been. 16 years old. Crazy. Which is why she's now almost has more albums than any other soloist. Yeah. I do think there's some balance between quantity eventually becoming with relentless focus, quality.

Absolutely. How can you create quality without the reps? Like if you want to be great, do a lot. Yes, that is, well, that is the game. Volume is the game, 100%. Working in restaurants, I mean, it's all I really know. I didn't go to college. So a lot of people like to make fun of me sometimes

because they're like, oh my God, he always talks about how he works in restaurants. It's all I know. Like, what do you want for me? People talk about when they went to college, they don't get shit on for that. I didn't go to college. I didn't have any formal studies.

I went and worked in a brutalist environment and I worked in fucking restaurants. And the number one lesson that I learned was you can become great at anything if you are willing to perform the relentless amount of repetition that it requires to become great. at it. And it may be 500 times, it may be 5,000, it may be 10,000, maybe 100,000, maybe a million.

It depends on how quickly you learn. It depends on so many factors. But I do believe that anyone can be great at almost anything. It's just how many reps is it going to take? And are you going to, are you going to be able to do all those reps? Yeah, it's so true. I've become kind of friends with Tim Grover. Tim wrote a book called Reletless. And I think it's a really good screen. If people love that book, they're going to like working in my companies. If they don't, they're not. So I agree with you there. Now, one thing you did that I think is fascinating that you don't get, you don't get enough credit for and people don't talk about is the book launch. Like, I want to obsess for a second on how to launch a best-selling book in a way that is not ads, that is not, even at the time

you had a big audience, not the biggest audience, but you sold hundreds of thousands of copies of a cookbook before cookbooks were like mainstream everywhere. Talk about. Talk about. Talked. to me about how you did that. How do you get 3,000 people to line up to wait to see you for a cookbook signing? Yeah, that was wild. And also for reference for the cookbook signings, any of my audience watching, we're working on creating a better method. Okay, we weren't expecting that many people to show up. We didn't do any paid advertising. There wasn't like, oh, let's put a billboard up. It was all completely organic push for the book. Funny enough, actually, we did do one ad campaign. And we did for free. We were doing this thing with Pinterest. We were working with Pinterest.

And they gave us free ad space. We used the ad space. You know what's funny? Less than one percent of our sales came from that. And the amount of ad space they gave us was $200,000 worth of ad space. Less than one percent of my sales came from that. What was the difference? Authenticity, I think. Yeah, but it's way more tactical than that. You were systematic as a motherfucker when you were inserting your book. Like, I went back and looked through a bunch of your videos. It's almost like you never marketed because you were restaurants, but somebody taught you the book. Like, you would be cooking and then you'd be like, yeah, I'm thinking about chicken legs. Oh, like on page 57 in my cookbook. Talk about that insertion project. It became tactical because I care so much about the viewer's experience. So much so

that I modified my marketing perspective to whatever I do, if I'm going to promote my book, it will be in a way that is entertaining and not just totally boring and disruptive from the content that they chose to, you know, so kindly give me their time to watch. The last thing I want to do is deter them with a shitty promo. What would that be? A shitty program would be like you with the book like, look, I'm trying to hit the New York Times bestseller list. Yeah. Like people say you should be direct with the audience and say like, oh, my cookbook is out.

I mean, I did say that. And I did have some promos like that. like I did, right? But if every promo is like, my book is out, go and get it. Like, that doesn't, that's not meaningful. Like, it feels very much like, give me your money, motherfucker. And I just don't, I'm not like that. And certainly it's frowned upon from the world that I come from.

Always be reserved. Don't, you know, ask for too much. And so I was just trying to avoid being like that. And I think that's how we formulated the whole marketing around if we're going to have you buy something, we're going to make it entertaining. And even more than that, we're going to lead up to it with value before we deliver that. We're not just going to go, books out. Okay, now let's get to the value.

It's like, no, value, value, value. By the way, silly fun thing, go-go-go-gaga, I'm going to wipe my butt with my book, which I did. Not literally, but I made it look like that. I launched my book by wiping my ass with a page of it. I tore a page of my book out. I was like sitting on the toilet and I look over and the camera cuts to the, the empty toilet paper roll. And it cuts back to me and I pull up a sheet of my book and I'm like and then it cuts to a black screen and then it's basically like fades in. It's like my book is

officially out like da-da-da-da-da. My publisher was like, dude, I can't believe you did that. Like, please, please, you know, please delete that out of the video. I'm like, we can't. Yeah, we sold like 60,000 copies that day. It was crazy. So it's basically like giving a little bit more love and juice to the idea of even trying to get your audience to sell something or to buy something. You know, honor the audience would be, I mean, sometimes when I'm talking to my team, I think, one, you should never write a love letter to whom it may have concerned, right? That makes no sense. And yet most marketing is not named towards you, is not written like you would write a text to a buddy, and is not actually going to get somebody to pick up and do something. It's written like a corporate

speak that makes you want to get pout your eyes out. And so instead, yours is kind of the opposite. And you almost lean into the thing that you don't want people to do, which is think that your book is shit. Yeah, I've also done, you know, campaigns where I was like, here are the things that my book is good for, using it as a shovel, you know, or like using it to put hot things on and I put a really hot pan on it. It caught my book on fire, you know, because it was so hot that it literally caught the pages on fire. And it's just sort of like, just being silly. And there was one where I literally said, don't buy my book, fuck you. And a ton of people bought it. You know, and it was sort of like this thing of like I, it, what it tells the audience is it's not

reverse psychology. I mean, maybe it is, but I wasn't trying to be reverse psychological. What it tells my audience is it says, I don't fucking care if you buy my book or not. I made it for you and I worked really hard on it and it's good and you've trusted me all these years. Here it is. If you don't want to get it, I don't care. Like, it's good. That's it. Me writing the book is good enough for me. And most people I think can really resonate with that and they can sit back and go, wow, you know, he doesn't even need me to buy this shit. But I've watched him for, you know, three, four years or two years. He's always been consistently good. Why wouldn't I get it? And look how confident he is in it. Yeah, like, sure, I'll buy it. It's, you know, 20 bucks or

whatever, you know. What is the process when you're thinking about ads for your book? Do you think about it just like any other type of content? I treat it exactly like content. Which is, what's the creative? What's the story? You know, is there a story? Is it a joke? Is it silly? Is it serious? Is it angry? Is there a point I want to make with it? It should be entertaining without the book being there, basically. It should be entertaining without the product being there. Are we going to put it in a scenario where it doesn't belong? You know, it's like it's a cookbook. Should we pretend to do a, I don't know, an ad about getting a lobotomy and like do something crazy where like I pretend to have a lobotomy and I'm promoting my book

and I have no idea what's on the inside of the book and that's the creative? It's like, If it is just fun to watch, that's enough for me. You can never guess how many people will follow through with it until it gets to them, right? So at least if you entertain them, it's better than nothing. I think I want to tap really quickly into, so we've talked about how to sell books. We've talked about how to build a content empire. We haven't talked a ton about how your goals have changed over the course of you were 21 when you first started. Is that right?

Man, was I? Holy fuck. You're 28 now. How old was I? Jesus, I honestly, don't even know. Early 20s? It was probably five years ago. I officially, officially left. So, yeah, so five years ago.

Five years ago, you leave the restaurant and you probably just want to replace your salary, right? You're like, I just want to, well, you had already buy then. I just want to make more money than I do at this other place, and I want to be my own boss. And I want to grow online. To now, you know, I have a bestselling book. Oh, wait, I have two bestselling books. Oh, wait, I'm one of the biggest YouTubers, YouTube's out. out there on cooking.

What is next? And how has your goal changed as you've climbed your varying mountains? You know, it's funny. It actually hasn't changed. I would say most people get into this nowadays by accident, right? They're like, oh, I made his video and it went viral one day. And then I kept, no, motherfucker. That's not what happened here.

Like the two hours of sleep every night, that was not by accident. I didn't accidentally, you know, hustle my ass off. It was very much of like when I started, I knew exactly what I wanted to build. And that vision of what that is, that thing that I see in the distance is still there. I look at it every day. And I have been looking at it for probably the past, I don't know, decade of my life or maybe even longer. Because, you know, I started cooking when I was five. And I cooked almost every single day all the way up till today.

And so I've done the fucking hundred million hour rule, you know, whatever that is. When I was 11, this is the differentiator here, when I was 11 or 12, it was one of the differentiator here, When I was 11 or 12 is when I saw Gordon and I was like, I want to make something like that. I think I can do something like that. And he was a big inspiration for me. And that created a goal in my brain then. And so every decision I've ever made has always been this North Star that I'm looking at,

which is to build what I'm building now, but much bigger with varying different things. And I don't want to like give the whole thing away. But like, you know, that big goal has never changed. I think the only thing that has changed is the way I approach things. I'm much less emotional about things. I approach things much more analytically. You know, all the sorts of things that you go through when you build a business is like, you get beat up a bunch and then you kind of like learn how to regulate your emotions.

You almost run out of money. You almost get sued. Yeah, 100%. You almost get sued. Totally. That's happened. And you just kind of learn, oh, this is just running a business. Okay, cool. Well, I have this part down and this part done. What else do I need to learn to get better at this? What else do I need to try out? And you learn how to be like, oh, the next venture I need to take a risk again. Fuck, I need to feel the sense of risk again. You know, and that's where I'm at right now where I'm like, I'm taking on more risk now to do the next step. Yeah, there's got to be some huge correlation between risks taken from a business perspective and amount of success had.

Because I think that's the biggest thing that people don't understand. If you're not risking something, I mean, the other day we just raised a bunch of money and I put in millions of for a company that we're scaling in the SaaS space. And I bought it and now we're building it. And I told some of the investors that gave us money, you know, I knock on wood, have never lost money for anybody to date, and I'm not going to start now. And he kind of turned and looked at me.

His name is Donald Park. He was like, if you have never lost anybody's money and you have never failed on a business, you are not taking big enough risks. And I was like, or I'm really good. He's like never the case. Whoa, that's crazy. That's actually, that's deep.

And it's kind of true. Right? If you haven't done a video where you're like, this video, I do not know if it's going to work. And we're going to spend $30,000 on it. And fuck it totally failed, but we learned a bunch of things from it. Yeah, it's happened. Yeah. Much. What do you think is the most money you've lost in one video?

Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDMDM and Game Sense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge.

BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. 75,000, I think. Oh, that hurts. I've lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on videos. Yeah, multiple six figures I've lost on videos. But it's sometimes difficult to calculate what that really means because what is a loss on a video? especially on long form because long form is really powerful it's not like short form someone can watch a short form video not give a shit about you they can watch 20 of your videos

not give a shit about you long form is a commitment you're watching a 30 minute 20 minute video I mean people are what my video is like 25 minutes people are watching television show basically it's like you look at the you could look at the back end of YouTube and basically how much money in the video make and how much should I spend on it and then do your math and be like this was the ROI right but that's not always the case though because if you gained 50,000 subscribers, solid subscribers from that video, and then they all watch like, you know, 100 videos each, that you're way above your ROI from that. If you think about it. I see it more as an investment than a loss, but I try to be careful with that as well. So, yeah. Well, I think,

you know, creating content online is sort of like running a startup, even if you've been doing it for a long time, because you just have to spend so much money consistently on content with the hopes that it will eventually turn into more money or just an ability to, you know, continue doing the thing that you love to do. And I think that's the hardest part that people don't realize as content creators is they think that they're artists, but they don't realize your component, which is this business component. That's true. I want to like wrap up a little bit on the food front or my husband will kill me because he hates being called the word foodie, so I won't use that. He likes to cook. It's a naughty word. Why is I, yeah, people hate that.

It's just cringy. You know, it's just kind of like, like I'm a breathy. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I would have said that in 2007 to look back at it and regretted saying that, you know, I don't know. I've heard, for instance, that some chefs like cooking for themselves but not for others, or like cooking for others but not themselves, but there's a big chasm between the two. Oh, wow. I've actually never thought of that before. Which one are you? I don't like cooking for myself as much as I like cooking for others.

Interesting. I'll spend days on a dish. And by the time I'm done, I'm like, God damn, I don't want to eat this shit. somebody else eat it. Interesting. I've been looking at it for days. I don't not want to eat this. You don't have a little spoonful and I'm good.

Yeah. But I'm excited to serve it to people. So that's the nurturing aspect that you talked about. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. Or it's like me being like, I know the best experience of this, and I want you to experience it and enjoy it the same way that I do, and I'm going to create a situation where you can.

I was reading some studies the other day on women today. And more than 60% of women today have never had a man cook for them, below 35, which I thought is fascinating. That makes sense. And I was wondering, one, what's your take on that? And two, do you think it's like an unfair advantage as a man to be able to cook and to like cooking for another? Shouldn't be an unfair advantage. It seems like such a basic thing. We're the only animals on the planet that cook our food before we eat it. Why does everyone not know how to cook? That's like an evolutionary enigma. That's incredible. It's literally in our DNA. Yeah, it is an advantage. Totally. It was my advantage. It's definitely my advantage for a long time.

time. Gay? You know, my wife knows. It was definitely my advantage. And it was my advantage with her, too, by the way. Do you teach a lot of young men how to cook? Like, do you see them in the comments learning from you and implementing it? My audience on YouTube is over 75% men. That's great. Are that crazy? My husband, yeah. It's just rewatching it like a creep. So if you're new, I know this is like a 101 level, but say you're a dude, because most of our content is dudes, watching it. Say you're a dude and you want to press a chick, but you suck at cooking. Where would you start? Is there like three dishes that you're like, this is doable, but also a crowd pleaser? Totally. Before you even start, you need to like research and understand the person

you are cooking for. Do not assume. Don't think that you're the big shot that's going to make the big fancy dinner, just shut the fuck up and listen and figure out what kind of a woman they are. You know, what if they're vegan? And you don't know. You break up with them. Immediately. Yeah, at first you have a very, very important conversation. Just kidding.

Yeah, more important than anything than anything. You do free. One time I found this vegan cookbook in Kate's desk, and it was like a movie scene where you find like a text, like a text. Like yeah, yeah. But instead it was a vegan cookbook, and I was like, what is this? And she's like, oh, it's like a vegan cookbook. And I'm like, I can't be with you if you do.

do this. I literally have a meat, what is that, dry, meat dryer? I have a dry ageer. I have a dry ageer. Yeah, if you don't like the smell of dry, 42 dry age rib eye, I can fresh out the fridge, being sliced into a two and a half inch thick steak. It's going to be cooked perfectly to 135 degrees Fahrenheit, internal, medium rare. And top of an au-pois brandy sauce, you fuck, you can't be in love. Exactly. And she ignored you and walked back into the kitchen. as one does. She's like, you're done.

Ask them questions first. Figure out who the person is, figure out what they like to eat. Audience demographic survey, got it. Now, assuming that they're a meat eater, assuming that they, you know, like beef, I would always have a beef dish in there. I think beef is really easy to make luxurious and nice and fun. Save that to the end if you're doing a course out.

Another thing is a dessert. Pick a really nice dessert or a dessert that's easy to please, like chocolate chip cookies. I'm telling you. Telling. Totally. You've got to have a dessert in your arsenal. If you make a killer chocolate chocolate, I think that alone will be a win.

What's like the one little trick? Is it just like sprinkling a little Himalayan sea salt on top? Is there like one little secret. Cisole. Whoa. Shows you. We're going traversing to the mountains or some shit. Yes.

Yes. The trick is using my recipe. Yeah. Page 42. Yeah. No, I don't know. Okay, fine. I don't know.

But in my first book, I have a really good chocolate chip cookie. recipe if you do need what you're going to use but that aside okay so steal that yeah so steal that's a chocolate chip cookie or or some sort of dessert and then i guess the third you know like a it can be it could be a protein or i would say some sort of nice either side dish slash appetizer or like a starch you know like a really nice nice mashed potato or like a risotto do you have one you really like in the new book i have a one pound of butter mashed potato that's really good okay that sounds amazing Sincere. So we go on a mashed potato, we got a what?

Is it like a steak? Is it what we're going with? Steaks seem intimidating to me. Like, seems like you could really fuck up a steak. It's really not hard. I think that that's why it's such a great choice. The first thing I cooked for Kate was a steak. Seal it.

Okay. So it's actually pretty straightforward. You follow the recipe. You don't have to French feel it. And a steak is doable for most human. Okay. Yeah. And I think, look, I think just honestly,

there are so few men that cook, I think, for their ladies in their life. or the ladies they wish were in their life, that just cooking, you're already so far ahead. I only think you're gaining maybe a 10 to 20% additional advantage by getting really crazy with it. That's true. But I think if you go too crazy, like, most of them will be like, oh, are you a chef? Like, that's cool. Then it becomes this like career thing. Just make a good steak and potatoes and call it a day, you know?

Yeah. Make a great steak, like an incredible stick with a really nice sauce and like mashed potato and like maybe some roasted broccoli. little lemony sauce on it and just call it a day. If you're the one making it, you're like miles ahead of everybody else. And it's super simple. Yeah, plus pair it with like a nice French wine. Yes, no your wine. Cheaper, by the way, the most California wines. Yep. And if you're in California or you're in New York and got one of those fancy girls, make sure it's an orange wine, okay? Okay. Okay. I think we've just solved in celibacy in the U.S. for young men. Like food probably solves that problem. And I think it's the same thing for young women.

because these days, like, there's this, you know, kind of girl boss, femme movement. But, you know, Chris, my husband, who loves to cook will tell me that, like, one of the nicest things I can do for him is just take care of his stomach. And so, like, as much as food seems simple and obvious and genetic, like, if we need to get back to this idea of loving one another a little bit more, of being slightly happier, I think a lot of it starts with our stomachs. Totally. And so I think it's a beautiful movement you have, which is why I wanted to talk to you, because we're really big on this idea of community and ownership in this country. And where does most community happen around the dinner table? And yet we have lost it.

We have like most families now spend more time in front of the TV than they do in meals together, by far. Phones now. A hundred percent. And, you know, we believe that this ability to Uber eats our way and DoorDash our way to everything, which is beautiful and there is a place for that, and I use it plenty, is just as good as sitting down with our loved ones and actually cooking something for them. And I just don't think that's true.

And so I think this is a really important movement. Totally. I mean, similar reality is when people think of cooking, and this is coming from the millions of messages, DMs, comments that I've read, is people only look at one thing when they think, okay, they look at the inefficiency of it. They look at the fact that they're going to have to clean up afterwards.

they only look at every single negative aspect of it so much so that they don't even think about is there even a benefit because the answer is yes but they cannot look past this wall which isn't a wall at all it's this fake veil that's in front of them and it's like are you serious like you go through life you pay your taxes you go through devastation emotional devastation you you deal with the hardship of family you deal with the hardship of just life in general You don't want to like fucking clean a few pots and pans because you're afraid of having to take the time and fucking clean them, but you'll spend two hours on TikTok. Like let's be real for a second and maybe just try it and see if there was a benefit. And I would say more times than not, the benefit comes in many forms, which is what you learn from cooking, I think, can be applied to life.

I think there's a lot to be learned about patience. There's a lot to be learned about focusing on one thing for 30 minutes or an hour. you know, caring, giving all of your attention and effort to Brussels sprout as silly as it sounds, there is a level of release there that you won't get anywhere else. Because there's nothing left in society today where you will give that much attention to something so seemingly insignificant. It's beautifully said, you know, I think the best part of my day, every day almost, is Chris and I have a rule where we do not come home and eat separately.

We always eat dinner together if we're home. And it's become a ritual. You know, we like have this little candle that we light. We always do a cheers and the cheers isn't allowed to be repeated. So like every night we have to kind of come up with something that we think is special and worthy of cheering at the end of the day. And then we cook and we don't get that fancy with it. You know, he has your cookbooks, so we copy some of your homework.

The thing that I look forward to is it's an opportunity to really pair with your other human. And it doesn't even have to be your partner. But whether that's friends or family, I truly think that there's some movement back to traditional in the U.S., and we're starting to see it. You know, you and I both have friends that we could name and know who are in the massive productivity above all else bucket. And let me tell you what, happiness is not the thing that they chase. And often, like, that joyfulness in life is missing because they are in the pursuit of

what society tells us is important, which is, you know, money and more. Taking a little step back and feeding another human because it is a necessity to life is really, really beautiful. Yeah. People are very black and white, though. You can still be, you know, a hyper efficiency focused person. The irony is restaurants are all about efficiency, which is kind of silly. But you could still be that person that's all about, I mean, I'm not saying unhappy, but that's all about growth and everything, you know, make the numbers go up, make more money,

make a bigger business, do things to the highest of high. But like, it doesn't mean that you have to eliminate and annihilate all forms of things that could be technically not moving that dial. Because I guarantee you do things in your day, every day, no matter who you are, I don't care who you are, that are not moving the dial like you think it is. They're just not. It's going to be okay if you take an hour and a half or two hours to make a meal even once a month.

It's going to be okay. Like whatever you want to do in life, you're probably going to be okay. The other thing people are obsessed with these days is being fit and food being a function not an art form in many ways. And you've had this fascinating balance of losing hundreds of pounds simultaneously making recipes that are not quote unquote healthy

and sampling them and trying them. Can you be both somebody who loves food and experiences it and fit and healthy? Totally. And how? It's very hard. But I mean, I guess we have to redefine what healthy means also, right?

Like is healthy having six pack? or is healthy, you know, being a healthier weight, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But I guess if we're really going to trim this down to what people really care about, it's like, how do I not be fat? It's like kind of the question, right? That's what people really care about. They don't know what I'm going to fuck about being healthy. They would be more than happy to die at 68 with a six-pack.

Dude, that's actually exactly right. I think that's why people hate Brian Johnson. They're like, don't live forever, who cares? But I want to look hot and fuckable. Yeah, I would love to live longer. I don't know when I'm going to die, but I sure as fuck don't want to ruin my quality of life just that I can live. three years longer. What do you fucking do. I mean the goddamn steak. What I will say is the way you can

balance it is you know you don't need to eat crazy every day. I mean I think some intentionality behind your eating is probably good. Right now I'm like on a more extreme diet because I have like a goal that I want to hit just for the sake of my own fitness journey. It's like oh you know I want to I want to like do like a bodybuilding thing and see where I can go with that and try that out. I like having discipline in my life. But the way I do it is like have a have a have day. that you, you know, are going to eat a little bit more under your regime of diet and have days there maybe a little more loose or if you can find a way to, you know, make that a daily occurrence where it's like, cool, for breakfast, I'm not going to go too crazy today. I think I'm just going to have,

I don't know, I don't eat breakfast. I was going to say, you don't like breakfast. That's like your least favorite meal, right? I don't really eat breakfast that much. That's so bizarre, but I'll let it go. I don't know. Let's say like a fried egg on just a piece of toast with slice of alacado. Really chill, nothing to do crazy, not high. calorie. I'm just going to eat that and I'm not super hungry, whatever. And then for lunch, maybe you go a little more crazy. Maybe you wanted a burger and fries. Cool. Eat your burger and fries. And then chances are you're probably already going to be full for the rest of the day anyway, but it's like, okay, I know what I've eaten today. Using my intuition, I'm going to understand

that I probably had a lot of calories. So tonight I'm not starving. I'm just going to have like chicken breast and some rites and call it a day, you know, and eat vegetables. I mean, you have to find whatever split works for you. Just maybe be mindful about how you're eating and just that's one way to do it. Yeah, I think the, the beautiful. part there is like, listen, you can be Brian Johnson, you can be Peter Atia, you can be the fittest of the fit and be obsessed with that, or you can have your glass of red and steak and also be pretty fit. And so I think it's really cool that you're pairing the two together. And I expect on the next cookbook, you have your eyebrow raised and a six pack on the cover. Is that what we're

going for? That's what we're going for. Are you, you know, it's either abs or ass guy. I have crazy glutes. I'm not even joking. It's actually insane. I don't know. know why. I think it's a magnetic thing. Like, I don't have like the biggest most like, you know, thick biceps and my traps are like the, you know, some guys have like huge traps. But I have crazy back and crazy glutes. So maybe that'll be on the cookbook. Yeah. It'd be funny if the front of the book was like me sitting or like me standing and it's like abs shirtless and an apron and I have an apron on. Yeah. And then on the back of the book, it's my bare ass because you can't seek as my aprons covering my legs.

I love this for you. I think we just decided, you guys can put in the comments if you want to see Josh's butt on the back of his cookbook. Please don't. You just send up a picture of yours, but not full frontal. And I think we've really wrapped this up. Is there anything else you want to tell humans who are probably not as into food as you are, but might just find a place in their heart for it?

So many things I'd like to say. Well, what's the general vibe of the people watching before I answer? Probably somebody like me, like somebody who doesn't know what a subi is or also the Mazam plots or whatever the fuck that side dish. Las is like the most known term. That is not. My wife knows what that means. Well, your wife is married to a chef. Yeah, but she knew before that.

She knew before that. I would also like to know in the comments. Who knows what a Mazza? What is the? Mezen Blas. So there are people like me. So probably, you know, not big chefs, not big cooks, but relatively successful and on the path thinking about success. And I think we want to slow them down a little bit, get them to think about food or if you have anything you want to say on contents, too.

You can really go wherever you want here. Just seek out one good eating experience. Like work really hard to seek that out, something really special and be really intentional about how you do it. And just do it once. And I think the rest will kind of make itself after that. If you choose the right eating experience, I promise you that it'll become more of an internal thought process that grows from there. I don't think anyone needs to go from zero to 100 and start cooking a suvi steak and what me some philosophamines or whatever. I don't think that that's what it is.

As a matter of fact, my whole goal when I started doing this was never to convince anybody to cook. As a matter of fact, I despise when people try to convince anyone to cook. Half the time I tell people to go fuck themselves. But what I did want to do was get people interested. and use food as a vehicle to entertain them because I think that it will improve everyone's quality of life in some shape or form whether they cook it or they eat it or there's a fun fact about it because it's inevitability an important part of our life and there is a way for everyone to enjoy food at a really high level somewhere they just don't seek it out so seek it out I would

just watched a show called bottle shock have you ever watched that old school movie about wine and the creation of the wine movement in California. And it was like the guy who created the first blind wine tasting. And what I liked about it, what I like about thinking about this too is in today's society, we really think they're like, I don't know, two or three ways to determine success. Typically it's like your career. Maybe it's your bank account. Maybe it's also like your health and familial situation.

Are you married? Do you have kids? But when I watch movies like that and I see microcosms like food, I remember that there is an entire group of humans who have decided to have their own definition of success. And in Bottleshawk, it was like, who can create the most incredible wine imaginable with no interest in anything else? Almost no interest in money. And I think one of the cool things about what you talk about is the same thing. So that's almost like sport. Who's the best? Everyone loves to be the best. You know, so who's the best wine maker? Who's the best

pastry chef? Who's the best croissant maker in France? Who's the best chocolatier in France? but the funny thing is food is probably one of the most subjective things of all time. There is no such thing as the best. There's only what's good to you. Who's the best YouTuber and cooking? Joshua Weissman. It's definitely a deep thought. I think the only thing I can think of after my statement is just I feel like a lot of people will be sitting here asking, but why?

Like, why? Like, you're telling me to seek this thing out. Like, why should I care? I'm doing just fine. Why? Well, that's fine. I mean, technically you don't have to answer that question, but I will say that like everyone in most senses, especially really hardworking people, always feel like there's something missing. And this is something that definitely will add to your life in a way that you may not have considered that's going to be there anyway.

It's one of the only things that's going to be there anyway. You're going to be eating any fucking way. You know, just take an extra hour and go to a nice restaurant or something, you know, or what have you. If there's one thing that I've seen change people's lives across the board, regardless of, you know, the color of their skin, who they are, what job they are, sorry, what role they do in their career, whatever they're doing in life, food is easily the one leveling thing that has changed more people's lives than anything else, I think. Nailed it. You guys want the inside scoop. So my little summary here is that I don't want you to let the jokes fool you with Joshua Wise. men. You know, what I really stuck with me from this interview in particular is the attention to

detail and just about everything that he does. You know that saying the way you do anything is the way you do everything? Well, that is here in excess. I mean, you guys can kind of see it behind me, but this is a real kitchen, you know, a kitchen that costs $300,000 with everything laid out so thoughtfully that he doesn't really have to use his mind. He can use his eyes to the kitchen, as he says. You know, we have this meat smoker over in the corner. We have all of his ingredients labeled and situated perfectly. We have like 13 knives of all different varietals. We have an entire prep kitchen behind us. There's this wild iPad thing, if you guys could see it, where you can click the different color settings in order to determine whether you want something to be backlit or

warm lighting or in this case a little bit of purple because this was Tanner's guest today. And so I think the biggest takeaway is it's really hard to beat somebody who's relentless and relentlessly focused on details. And when I watch somebody, who has mastery, somebody like Joshua, I see that they don't let the little things slide. It doesn't mean that they're maniacal. It means that they are that word relentless, which I think is a beautiful way to describe a human being in pursuit as a thing that they want more than anybody else. And that is here. And so I wanted to share one of my rich friends with you. I wanted to share Joshua with you today to see what it was like behind the lens of somebody who's gotten

billions of eyeballs over five years at a very young age of 28 and done in a way that's a lot tongue and cheek, but a lot of seriousness behind that joke. And it reminds me of like the great comedians today, which I think are one of the pillars of truth that still exist in this world around us. And the great comedians today, what are they? They are obsessed with the detail, with every little comma and punctuation mark that go into the things that they say. And he is a comedian that is also a chef, that is also a YouTuber. And so I hope you took as much away from it as I did today. Don't miss the Devil Wears Prada 2 in theaters Merrill Street

Anne Hathaway, Emily Blunt, and Stanley Tucci are back. In light of the recent scandal, I'm here to restore your credibility. I did not hire you, and all I need to do is find my time until you fail. On May 1st, icons. I'm going to make something of this job. Rain.

The bridges I burn. Night my way. Forever. I just love my job. Get tickets now. The Devil Wears Prada 2 in theaters, May 1st. Directed by David Frankel. Okay, let's talk about restaurants again. In 2008, women spent 66 minutes a day making and prepping food.

In the 1990s, that was 112 minutes. In 1956, that was 2.5 hours or 150 minutes. And in the 1900s, that number was 5.5 hours a day. Go all the way back to the 1800s, it was all day. So we need to thank restaurants, farmers, cooks, and technologists everywhere for the restaurant. But here's the rub. If you want to be a chef, maybe don't open one because most of them fail. They're incredible restaurant groups and people who make millions doing it.

You know, you got Nobu, Fox Restaurant Concepts, MoMAFucco, etc. But the truth is, restaurants are incredibly complex as a business. First, let's look at the numbers. So, because the numbers are hard to lie with, I like to start there. The average small business in the U.S. sells for around $800,000. The average restaurant goes for $198,000. Why? Because 60% fail in the first year and 80% fail after.

after four. Restaurants, on average, ain't for mega money. Second is margins or how much money you make from the money that you bring in and put in your actual pocket. On average, restaurants can expect net margins of three to five percent. Tiny. I won't do a deal unless I can make 30 cents on every dollar or 30 percent margins. Three to five, you're in trouble if you make a few mistakes. Now, imagine a few people don't show up, food goes sideways, you're out of business. Third, competition. This is what's called a red ocean market. A blue ocean. A blue is where you have no competitors. It's like Uber when it was created or Facebook. It's sort of a first. A red ocean is where you have so much competition you can't throw a rock without hitting another. If you want to make this, I don't know, Herculean task of eating at every restaurant in New York City, for example, it would take you 22.7 years. It takes 12 years just for Manhattan. Three and a half for Queens. Who even lives out there? The fourth reason I don't like them is procurement. So forecasting demand, storage, waste. theft, managing off-peak hours, pricing, calculating gross profit of each food item. Let's take

just spoilage. You not only have to buy up inventory intelligently, but you have to hope that you are so good at guessing if the fickle crowds will eat your three-day-old shrimp before they go bad. Fifth, they're really expensive. Restaurants to build out cost anywhere from $95,000 to $2 million. And then you got to deal with, I don't know, all of your employees in the back doing dirty deeds. I don't care if you're a foodie or your buds tell you that you should sell that perfect cheeseburger that you make? Don't do it unless they're giving you the startup cash. Restaurants are for humans that simply cannot exist without running one, in my opinion. So go eat there. Go frequent them. But, you know, don't do deals where you eat. This deal of the week, though, is not to say that I don't love restaurants, but to say, first,

don't be greedy. Share this pod with an eaty. Okay. Now, let's get into the idea that if you don't want to own a restaurant. You could still become a chef fluencer. Instead, this is a new word. I had no idea what it means. Here's a fascinating example. There's this guy, Thomas Stryker. He basically built his whole business around viral short form videos on Instagram and TikTok. He's a London chef with a book, and he spent 10 years working in top restaurants in London. And then he kind of thought, I want to bring like high quality, simple cooking to people like Josh did. His big rise to fame was the TikTok series, It's All Things Butter. In 2022, he started this, little series where he just made butter recipes on camera. In some instances, he didn't even make

the butter. He just mixed butter with other things, like Marmite. I don't even know what that is. It's probably English. And then combined it with butter and called it Marmite butter. This series got over 10 million views on just individual clips. So in 2023, he raised $500,000, seated his company, started calling the company All Things Butter, and sold a bunch of flavored butter like garlic and herb. This year, they landed a $2.2 million investment from a private equity firm. So, as of this May, All Things Butter, sold about 250,000 blocks of butter. Not too shabby at all. My take for you is, let's all cook at home a little bit more together, but maybe skip the restaurant.

All right, guys, I hope you liked that episode as much as I liked filming it. It was so cool to see instead of Josh's studio, hell of a setup, man. My guy is, like, drooling in the background, trying to give me to spend more money so that line gets set up nice like his is. We don't talk a lot about, you know, food on this channel. That's not really my song and dance. We do talk a lot about community, about owning our communities, and about taking things back to the community. And this episode, I think, is really a nice way to put a little bow on that bad boy. All right, if you haven't subscribed, you know the deal. Hit that subscribe button or don't be greedy. Share the podcast with the needy. Thank you guys so much for listening to the

big deal podcast. You are a big deal to me. See you next week. You know that I got it. No need to look all in a bag. Stunning like this because I worked so hard.