Bigfoot Society - A NAWAC Researcher Shares New Encounters And Activity From Area X

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

In this episode, we delve into the experiences of Tami Grimes from Florida, a Bigfoot researcher and board member of the North American Wood Ape Conservancy. Tami shares the childhood encounter that stayed with her for decades after she saw a massive creature outside her bedroom window near the Green Swamp of central Florida. That moment quietly shaped the path that eventually led her into the world of Sasquatch research.Now actively involved in ongoing investigations, Tami discusses the work being done by NAWAC researchers and the long-term study taking place in the Ouachita Mountains of southeast Oklahoma at a location known as Area X. She shares details about unusual vocalizations echoing through the valley, investigators hearing something breathing just yards away in the darkness, and activity that continues to unfold around camp during research operations.Along the way, Tami talks about the scientific approach behind the organization’s mission, the intelligence these animals seem to display, and why the deeper researchers go into the woods, the more complex the mystery becomes. From Florida swamps to the rugged mountains of Oklahoma, this conversation offers a fascinating look into the ongoing effort to understand one of the most elusive creatures said to inhabit North America.Join us as we explore Tami’s journey, the research happening at Area X, and the encounters that keep investigators returning to the woods.Resources:https://www.woodape.orghttps://www.facebook.com/noamwoodapehttps://www.sasquatchscience.org/🗣️ Share Your StoryHad a Bigfoot encounter or strange experience?Send it to [e-mail] – your story might be featured on the show!🎥 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube🔴 Subscribe here → Bigfoot Society YouTube💬 Leave a comment & let us know your thoughts!📞 Leave a voicemail with your story → Speakpipe (Use multiple voicemails if needed)👥 Share this episode → Watch & Share🎧 More episodes → Podcast Playlist🌲 Recommended: New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters💥 Support the Show & Get Perks✅ Join the community on Supercast – Become a Member✅ Listen ad-free & early on YouTube – Join Here📱 Let’s ConnectInstagram: @bigfootsocietyTwitter: @bigfoot_societyTikTok: @bigfoot.society🧰 Tools & Partners I Use (Affiliate Links)These help support the show at no extra cost to you:Beam (Better Sleep): Try BeamWildgrain (Better Bread): Join HereSeed (Probiotics): Get SeedMedi-Share (Healthcare): Learn MoreLMNT (Electrolytes) Free Sample Pack with your first purchase! : Get LMNTOrganic and non-GMO groceries delivered for lesshttp://thrv.me/uarEhS🎙️ Podcasting Tools:Repurpose.io: Try ItDescript: Sign UpStreamyard: Start RecordingRiverside.fm: Try Riverside🎧 My Audio Interface: View on Amazon☕ Buy Me a Coffee – Support Here🛍️ Grab Some Merch – Shop on Etsy📬 Mailing Address:Bigfoot Society125 E 1st St. #233Earlham, IA 50072

On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, Bad Dirt. What makes Bad Dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like Bad Dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on Plant killers. Indeed, sponsor jobs gets you quality candidates when you need them most. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos,

this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. During Memorial Day at Lowe's, shop household must-haves for less. Save $80 on a charbroil performance series for Burner Grill to chef up something special. Plus, get up to 45% off select major appliances to keep things fresh. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's.

Lowe's, We Help, You Save. Valid through 527, while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for details. Visit your nearby lows on West Pico Boulevard in Los Angeles. You're listening to Bigfoot Society and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you first-hand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways, the stories come from everywhere.

And each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. So settle in because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us. All right, Bigfoot Society. Welcome back to another episode. Today we've got the privilege of talking to researcher Tammy Grimes. Tammy is another researcher and a board member of the NAWAC. And you've heard from board member Rick just recently was able to get Tammy on the show as well, which is, is a board member of the NABAC. And you've heard from board member Rick just recently. was able to get Tammy on the show as well, which is incredible. We're definitely going to have a discussion about things to do with Area X and research that's going on down there in southeast Oklahoma. But welcome to the show, Tammy. How are you doing today? Thank you very much for having me. I'm doing very well. Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

And I'm looking forward to our discussion. Absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like the listeners know to know about yourself for contacts before? we get going. For context, I think that one of the questions that I get quite frequently, of course, is I think everyone who does this gets a question of you, what brought you to this or what my background is that would lead me to this. And I don't have the typical background. I think that people think of when you think of a Sasquatch researcher, WoodApe investigator. And, in that I'm not a hunter. I don't have, I don't have issue with hunting.

My husband is a hunter. I personally don't hunt, but I don't come from that typical background. I spend a lot of time in the woods. I'm a hiker. I love camping and I grew up doing things. But what led me to this is a little different. I did have an encounter and when I was very young. but I think a lot of investigators have this background of kind of this hardened,

a lot of background with hunting and that type of thing. And so people, they look at me, I have an office job, and I spend most of my day in front of a computer. And I think that surprises people when they find out that this is how we spend, if I'm not in the office, this is how I spend the bulk of my free time when I'm not with my family and I'm not in the office. office. I'm in the woods investigating and I think that that is something that catches people off God when they find out that that's how what I do with my with my great time and and how it led me,

how I got here is a little, little different from what most people experience. Do you mind sharing a few minutes about the encounter that you had as a younger child? Absolutely. I would be happy to. I didn't tell people for a lot. long time because it comes with a stigma. And I've gotten to a point now where I found it's helpful for me, but it's also helpful for other people to hear about my encounter. So I'm happy to share. When I was four years old, I grew up in an area that is connected to the Green Swamp in central Florida. And I remember looking out my window, out of my window, out My bedmondo was on my favorite things to do.

My parents thought I was in bed asleep, but I was not. And I saw something out the side yard. And I was, my window was about 60th off the ground. So I'm at a pretty good height above the ground. And I could see, there's like a utility shed for gardening tools and things. And it could see something moving. over the top of the shed and the apex of the shed was probably about six feet high, five and a half, six feet high, and I could see something moving over the top of the shed.

So I remember watching it and it approached from my right-hand side. And very quickly, it was right in front of the window. And I was, it was looking down at me. It was probably maybe 10 to 12 feet away from the window, so it was actually very close. But it was massive. It was the, what I refer to, someone named Lufriigno as the closest. It had that body build and very muscular, very broad across the shoulders, kind of tapered at the waist.

It walked with a slightly forward bent. Its arms were very long. Its hands were almost. touching the ground, not quite, but it stood there for quite a while and we made eye contact. I could see where the hair started on its space, like under the eye here under the orbital bone. The long, the length of the upper lip from the nose to the top of the lip was very, very long. And it did have slight lip, not like humans do, but it did have. have a slight lip and a little bit longer of a, not a beard, but the hair on its chin was a little bit

longer than the hair that came off the rest of the jaw line. The forehead was very flat and it came up, the head came up to a point. So it had a very defined sat of a crest and no neck. I remember seeing that it just, it went from like head to shoulders. And the animal stood there and looked at me for, I don't exactly know how long because I was four years old. And then it suddenly took off. And the speed at which it took off was absolutely astonishing. It startled me.

I went and told my parents, there's a monster outside. It's really big. I don't know what it was. And I know those words because my mother repeated them to me. Recently, she recalls me coming to them and telling them they thought it was asleep. She put me back to bed, said, you're just having a bad dream. And which is what any parent would do, I unfortunately had nightmares for 25 years for not. For that encounter because I was trying to reconcile what my parents were, what my mother told me, there's no such thing as monsters, to what I saw. And I could not put that out of my mind. I could not get rid of the fact that I saw this animal. And although I kept having this

recurring dream over and over, the thing that, it wasn't that the animal was right in my face. That was a scary dream. But the thing that, always fright me the most was the speed, which this animal moves. Because I knew, with four years old, I knew that there was nothing you could do if that animal wanted to catch you. There's nothing you could do to get away from it. And it wasn't until I was in the second grade, there was a small book in my classroom, little classroom library, on cryptids. And flipping through the book, and it had things like fairies and wood carvings of werewolves and vampires and things like that. But the book only contained two photographs. One was of the Latinus monster and the other was frame 352 from the Patterson

Gimlin film. And when I saw that, I immediately recognized that as a real animal. And then of course in 1977 when the In Search of episode came out. I remember sitting in the living room floor in front of the television and I asked my mom, this is a show real? And she said, well, I don't know. It's probably make-believe. But I knew what I was looking at was the same type of animal. She looked different body shape, but I knew that it was the same animal and I knew that animal was real. I didn't talk about it though because there was nobody who wanted to talk about it. Everyone was telling me it was just that you're just having nightmares put it out of your head and kind of one of those if you focus on it, it's just going to make it worse type situations and that's

what you would expect parents to tell the children. But I did. I suffered with really, really bad nightmares for 25 years as a result of that encounter. That is incredible. And what an active area, the green swamp is, what year did this happen approximately? This would have been in 71, the winter. This would have been the winter of 71 or 72. So I'll let the listeners do the math on that. And it was, at that time, the term Bigfoot was not common in central Florida. that was not a topic that we had really heard.

The Legend of Boggy Creek, I remember seeing that movie at the drive-in with my parents. We all went on Family Night, right? We went to see that film. That was after, we didn't see that until after I had had this encounter. But I also knew that what I was looking at was Hollywood costume. I could definitely tell the difference as a child. I knew that that was a,

not a real thing. I knew that that was someone in a costume. But this was not, the closest thing I'd ever heard, my grandmother referred to it, my dad's mom referred to it as a woodbooker. Now, she was from Arkansas. My dad's female was from Arkansas.

And she said, if you dwell on it, all you're going to do is that you draw the wood boogers to you. That's kind of the terminology. but she could use. So you don't want to, you don't want to dwell on them.

You don't want to focus on them. So, but that was the closest terminology that I had heard used. Woodbougars, haints, haunts, those were the type of terms

that were used for things that were in the woods. And other than that, it was not until, uh, the film, I think the, the,

the legend of boggy creek came out that the, and, in the Patterson-Gimlam film, the episode on In Search of when that came out, that that terminology became more familiar language in my little part of the world, at least. It wasn't something that was discussed in conversation when I was growing up. It just wasn't something that the kids and I talked about, it was not, we didn't talk about that in school. It wasn't a term that we were familiar with.

until after that, really until after that in search of episode came out. Okay. And you've got more information on a website called SasquatchScience.org about research in the green swamp, correct? That's correct. That's correct. It's a work in progress, but that is a website that I've launched rather recently to try to compile some of the activity, some of the research that I've been conducting. we have been there's a small group of people that I know locally of researches investigators who we are trying to keep constant scientific research going in the green swamp and in doing so trying to further the database on these animals animals, their behaviors, the locations, that sort of thing. And we've been able to put together

some documentation, at least for our own use of consistency of where the animals tend to be during different seasonally. And we're trying to put together information that we can try and document from a behavioral standpoint of what the animals are doing and where they are at different times of the year within the green swamp. The green swamp is 930 plus square miles of wilderness, have managed wildlife management area. And there's a lot of development going on around this area, around the green swamp. and then places right through the green swamp.

So the habitat is being changed on a daily basis, and we're concerned what that impact is doing to all of the animals that live there. I conducted research a year ago on what the impact is during hunting season in areas where there is no hunting. So it's a wildlife management area inside the, within the WMA, that doesn't have hunting during the rest of hunting season. And what that does to wildlife, to the smaller prey species, and they're almost non-existent.

Toward the end of hunting season, I did a trans-exampling study and couldn't find sign of small animals, possums, raccoons, rabbits. I know that they're there, but they were very scarce. and they should have on any other time a year, you would see a lot of tracks for possums and otters and things like that. This is Ashlyn Harris from Wide Open with Ashland Harris. All right, quick switch,

because I want to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, vital proteins. But I can't really talk about vital proteins without talking about collagen first. So, did you know that collagen makes up one third of all the protein in your body? That's a lot of collagen. but our natural collagen production starts to dip at the age of 30, give or take a few years. So adding collagen peptides daily feels like a really simple way to support what your body already does. Now I know you've seen vital proteins, collagen peptides, iconic blue tub around before.

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But for me, it's all about building a daily habit I can actually stick to. And that's the key with collagen peptides, consistency. One serving, every day to support your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. And right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to vital proteins.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore One Nation's most a notorious fruit and vegetable killer.

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Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. As getting to the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the

work, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 have the virus that causes the Culebrilla. Although not all the persons

in risk, they're going to do you do not really, the eruption with ampollos years, making that even

the tasks more simple are all a problem. No, learn about the Culebrilla

to the Culebril to the doctor or pharmaceutical, But during hunting season, animals are compressed into this smaller area. By smaller, it's 11,000 acres.

And there's something going on that's compressing these animals there and it is putting a strain on the ecosystem wildness is going on. And then when hunting season ends, the animals seem to kind of just either the prey animals are coming back to that area or the predators are leaving that area and it's allowing the prey species to come back. I don't have enough data to determine what the causes are yet. I was just able to determine that there does seem to be data indicating that there's pressure, that this pressure on the environment exists during hunting.

season. And that's the kind of thing that we're looking at to see what's going on in total in the green swamp that is affecting all of the animals, not just this one particular species, but if it's affecting one species, it's affecting all of them. So it's going to affect the black bear. And we've recently found panther tracks. So it is definitely impacting multiple species when we're seeing this type of activity. Wow, that's some, that's some wild stuff. I've, I've not heard any of that information about the green swamp yet. So you are definitely doing some, some pretty detailed research down there.

I'd say listeners definitely want to check out the website and keep an eye on it for sure. But, you know, Tammy, how did you get involved with the NAWAC? I have my mom to think for that. going back to when I was four years old and she said oh it's just a bad drink back to bed she was in 2022 she was on a Sunday drive with the friend a little bit south of where I live in Pult county is an area where they do a lot of phosphate mining and after the mining is completed they put topsoe back on and they allow nature to reclaim the land because you can't really build there. The soil just doesn't allow for that. So it makes some really nice country drives. And she was on a

on a Sunday drive with the friend and they were rounding a corner and she looked up and there was a a berm that the berms hold in the backfill from the phosphate process. And she, the berm is probably 25 feet high. There were no trees. There's no shrubs. There's no structures there. But she looked up at the top of this berm and she saw a figure, a large, bulky figure in mid-stride. You've got that this type of stride. And it startled her. She was afraid to say anything because she was afraid the person she was with was stop, and she did not want to be there. So she didn't say anything. As soon as she got home, she called me and she said, what do you think I saw? And I was like, I don't know. Mom, what do you think you saw? So knowing that I've had this kind of a mild

obsession with Bigfoot Sasquatch my whole life. She keeps asking me questions. So I went on a search for certainly there's an organization who's doing scientific study on the species with all of the television shows, all of the podcasts that are out there. There has to be an organization who's doing legitimate scientific study. And in trying to find the answers for my mom, I came across the NAWAC website. I read the information that was on the website. I was really impressed with the approach that the organization took and took a chance. As I mentioned before, my background doesn't really lend toward what a lot of other investigators bring to the table.

but I applied and I was accepted as a member of the organization. And I've not regretted, not one minute of it. I have spent since November of 2022, I have spent as much time possible learning from the people in the organization, the not discounting what other people are doing, not by a long shot, because there are people who are doing incredible work, but the members of the NAWAC,

we have some of the top minds and thinkers and investigators and researchers in the subject who are out often who are applying the science. And if they can't get in the field to apply the science, they are sharing ideas. That's something that you don't always encounter in this particular field, people who are willing to share. They're willing to share what they know. They're willing to share what they found.

And the collaboration of this organization is what really, that's the biggest benefit for me, is being able to pick the brains of people like Alton Higgins and Bob Strain, Kathy String, having access to these individuals who have, decades, if you were to take an add up collectively, the years of knowledge, hundreds, we have centuries of knowledge on the subject, and it's there just for the asking. And if you don't know, if someone doesn't know the answer, there are plenty of people there to collaborate and come up with ideas to not part toward a solution. the background of the members range from educators to veterinarians and medical doctors,

firemen, police officers, military, and other branches, biologists. It covers the board, the Gannett pilots. We have people from a very broad range of background. who are bringing your expertise to the table. And even if it's not one of the members, his day-to-day job is in the field of construction, actually several members, their day-to-day jobs in the field of construction.

But this skill set that they bring to the table is that you give them a challenge, say, oh, who thinks that it wouldn't be cool if we had something that did this. give them a few days and they're going to come up, like build it for themselves. They'll come up with this gadget or this solution. And it's because they're used to working with their heats. They're used to building things and making things. So it's not even what they do day to day. It's the skill set that they bring to the organization and that they're willing to share.

And it's that incredible treasure trove of knowledge that you're, provides that I just that's what I love about the organization. For those that you know this is maybe the first introduction to the NAWAC can you share a little bit about what the goal of the organization is what is publicly known about where they're focused and things like that? Sure. Absolutely. the overarching mission of the organization is to prove to science and to our the government agencies the existence of the species that we refer to as the North American would aid the goal for doing that is so that we can enact efforts to preserve their environment for the sake of conservation, it would be an absolute shame if we found out too late that the species exists

if we can't act in time to preserve them. If the species goes extinct, we have species, hundreds of species going extinct to Pirate symbol day. And we even have species that are identified and oh look here's a brand new species and it is identified it is recognized and it goes extinct because we're not able to act soon enough to preserve their environment and active conservation to be able to save the species that's what we're trying to do our mission is to get the species and be able to enact conservation efforts across the country. We are not just in Oklahoma. That's where Area X is identified.

Area X is not named Area X because it's a mystery. It's named Area X because Y and Z didn't pan out. There were other areas. It was just like an alphabetical labeling. And it's just area X is the one that panned out. But it does have this mystery and of course X March the Spot and all of those things. But that's not the only place where the organization conducts investigations. We have members who are conducting their own investigations, as I do in Florida,

members that are all over the country who are conducting investigations in their own locations. There are people who are investigating in Texas and Louisiana and wherever they call home. In Maine, we literally have members in all four corners of the continent. But we also respond when people contact the organization, they've had an encounter, if they've had a siding, we will have an investigator contact them. We will either talk to them if possible. we will go to the location.

I did an investigation recently that was in the Greenswaffe, and we will walk that investigation. We will go through the entire encounter with them, if possible, and try to collect as much data as we can for the purpose of adding to what we know the species as far as, what are the behaviors, what are there seasonally, if we can pull together information about where they are in different times of the year. They don't tend to be specifically more active at one time a day or at night because we have people who have sightings during the day.

We have people who have sightings at night. But different types, did it whistle at you? Did it knock on a tree? Did it throw a rock at you? behaviorally, we try to keep track of all of those things so that we can try to create all of these data points and use them to create a picture of what this animal does. How does it communicate? How does it behave? Because eventually we will get to a point where it's not a question of whether or not this animal exists, it will become a question of what do they do? What are they like? And when we get past that, if you think back, it hasn't been that long ago, 130 years ago that the mountain gorilla was considered a myth until it was finally documented. And it was even less time than that,

that the panda was identified. It was, again, considered to be a mythical creature until science finally identified it. In the scheme of species, that's like no time at all, really. So identifying a new species, especially a primate, it's 2020, December, 2004, there was a very new primate identified. and I think the guy was researching one square acre along Amazon and identified a new primate while he was there. Identifying a new species, that happens quite frequently.

Primates are less frequent, but they do happen. Discovering new primates happens. Getting this one discovered is not so much about getting science to recognize it. It's first overcoming the stigma associated with identifying this as a legitimate. species. But the bigger issue is that this animal is incredibly intelligent, more so that people realize. And the more time you spend investigating this animal, the more you realize how intelligent they are. Primates in general are really, really smart. This one has got to be the smartest as far as primates go of the great apes. Second to humans.

This has to be the smartest of the primates because they've learned how to avoid humans. Wow. How close do you feel that the organization is to getting that goal that you have? We have gotten close. It's hard to say how close because it is, it's close. It's close. So you play in horseshoes or hand grenades, that kind of thing. right? I have had an animal come in very close to me. Other investigators have had animals coming very close to them so close that they could literally hear what was described as asthmatic breathing. This is Ashlyn Harris from Wide Open with Ashland Harris, and now a vital break from our sponsor's vital proteins. You know the blue tub you've probably seen. everywhere, that's vital proteins collagen peptides. Now why use them? Because they're the experts,

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I mix it into my morning coffee, smoothie, whatever is easy and fits my routine because it helps me feel my best and I can show up fully every single day. But however you do it, consistency. is key. It's crazy how something so effective is so easy. And right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to vital proteins.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. These statements have not been evaluated by the food and drug administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so

Bad. The answer, the ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed in garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. As getting to the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family,

the importance of the work, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 have been the virus that causes the Culebrilla. Although not

all the persons in risk, they're going I do with opioles, during the arduces during that even the tasks

more simple are all a problem. No, learn about the Culebrilla to the

Culebril to the doctor or pharmaceutical, patrocinated for GSC. and you've got to be pretty close to an animal to hear it respirate. That's a close proximity to this animal.

Getting evidence, there's lots of ways to go about collecting evidence. And it again comes down to what science is going to identify. People will ask me, oh, I've got this picture of a big foot where you look at it. and you see a picture and it's really a blob. And I will tell them, you know, keep up the good work, keep trying. But the benchmark, if it's not better than the Patterson Gimlin film, it's probably not going to move the needle forward. That said, with AI today, getting video, getting photos, still not going to move the needle forward. We need evidence, scientific evidence,

that is going to either supplement or really drive the message home if we do have video or photo. We have to have more than just images at this point. So we are doing a press for EDNA. We're doing a press for trying to collect other types of evidence. That could include hair samples are proving very difficult to come by, but it is something that we are that we are constantly villaging for. We are also on, always on the lookout for opportunities to find any other type of evidence. Animals die, especially primates, they lose teeth.

and if we happen to be out and water flows downhill and washes things downhill with them. So when we're in the N-Ary Axe, when we are walking around, we're constantly on the lookout for bones and teeth and things like that. It would be wonderful if we could chirp across a bone or a tooth or something like that. They're rare in North America. Teeth, probably easier to find because they stay around the longest when we're talking about what's left over from skeletal remains. But North America is just not very kind to remains. And that's why we don't have, people say, why can't you find fossil evidence or why can't

you find skeletal evidence? It's, you might find hog, you might find deer, carcats. you rarely find a bear carcass just lying in the woods. And usually when you do find deer or fob, it's been hit by a car, or it's a hunter that has shot the animal and left the rest of the carcass there. You don't find things like bear just in the woods.

It's rare. You can, but it's rare. These animals are even more rare than black bear, and they're very hard to find. It would be great if we could just trip across one. What I'm getting to is the thing that most people are most uncomfortable about, and that is that it is the mission of the organization to collect the type specimen. It is not because we are mean.

It is not because we hate these animals, on the contrary. It is because we are devoted to getting this animal recognized and it is not our wishes, it is science that demands a type specimen. If you've ever taken your child or if you yourself have ever gone to any natural history museum, you're going to see type specimens, thousands of them. They're not made up of nylon, they're not made up of man-made materials. the type specimens that you see in the natural history of museum used to be living animals

and they are now in that museum for people to learn from them. It is not our intention to go in and wipe out a troop of these animals. We simply are trying to get evidence so that we can document the species. If we can do that without collecting a type specimen, that would absolutely be preferred. Science dictates otherwise. And that makes people feel uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable.

I am personally not a collector for the organization. There are individuals who are identified. They are carefully screened. I am not a hunter, so I would not be a good candidate for that. but I also know that there are things I didn't like taking my child to have a doctor's appointments either but there are things you have to do you have to take your children to the dentist and the dentist does things to them that makes them unhappy there are things that we have to do that make us unhappy and this is one of the things that is not something we are bloodthirsty

to do this is something that is necessary for us to be able to get to. the species identified. It is the way science has worked from the beginning when it comes to biology and getting species recognized. It is, it can be a not a fun conversation, for sure. Does the organization have a plan in mind? I mean, let's, let's imagine for a minute someone does have a wood ape in their sites and they're 100% sure, yes, this is not a human, so I'm going to pull the trigger and then we will have a type specimen.

If there are other wood apes around, logically, one is to think there will be retaliation. So what is the plan in order to successfully harvest that type specimen? And to be quite honest, not get yourselves killed in the process. There is a plan for that. It is, we don't know what's going to happen.

Primates behave differently. Some primates will, if they hear gunshot, they will take off and run. Animals in general, generally do take off and run. We have anecdotal evidence, and that's all to go on. Think about the ape canyon. that in that incident, according to the retelling of that story, the apes retaliated. In other incidents of stories where hunters say they have shot an animal, it just disappeared. The body just disappeared.

There was one, I don't remember, I want to say it was in the Smoky Mountains where a hunter reported shooting one. and went to go retrieve it and it was gone. So don't know if it was for sure dead or if it was a family member came to recover it. We don't know because it hasn't happened. We do know that the animals in response to gun, fire, will vacate the area. But we don't know what's going to happen

if an animal is in fact taken. There are other primates that in, I have a friend who was telling me that he, I believe it was Haller Monkeys, that he was in the military, and a Hallow Monkey was shot, and the rest of the truth responded and retaliated.

So. Really? Yes. So, and. And they are incredibly strong and can do that they can kill you. Hallow monkeys, if it doesn't take a whole bunch of them, they're very strong. Chimpanzees can kill an adult man. And primates are strong.

People forget that just because it's smaller than you doesn't mean that it's stronger than you. play tugger war with your dog, right? So they're muscular and strong, and we don't know what these animals are going to do. And wood apes are particularly large. They are incredibly agile, as I mentioned before, they move probably the fastest land animal. I've never seen a cheetah with my own eyes. I understand the fastest land animal. I would imagine that it has to be equally as fast. The speed is, until you've seen one move, the agility and the speed, it's impossible to describe to someone.

It's like trying to describe how big the Grand Canyon is to someone who's never seen it. If you haven't seen how fast these animals move, it's impossible to describe. And if you haven't seen how large they are, it's impossible to describe. their solid muscle. So if they did decide to retaliate, it would be very dangerous. There is a plan in place. The plan is, I don't want to get into too much detail because that's proprietary for the organization. But the plan first and foremost is security for the team members.

who are on that particular operation safety and security for the members is one of the reasons why we we don't try and keep area ex private often

like we don't keep the location private because we're trying to lock away a secret from the world the reason that we don't publicly broadcast where it is is because it's private property. The property owners have a right to their privacy, but it is also to protect the safety of our investigators.

It is to protect the animals themselves because we don't want people out there. The animals have a right to live out their lives and in their happy lives, right? They have a right to have a right to not be harassed. in their home environment. But also, we don't want people to be tripping into the area where they don't belong if there is an operation going on and get hurt.

There are a lot of animals. That's a dangerous place. There are a lot of animals out there that can hurt you, not just apes, but we also don't want someone tripping. Be where you're supposed to be, basically. and safety is exactly safety is first and foremost when we're doing an operation safety is first and foremost safety for the investigators safety for anyone who may anyone else who may be on property because they're this private property in the area it there's also a national forest area nearby we

don't want to risk the safety of anyone who may be legally on national. Forest Land, including National Forest Service. So we always put safety first. But second to that, then, would be securing that type specimen. Because if we get to the point where we do collect the amount of time and effort and energy and planning that is gone into making that successful, we want to make sure that we're able to, so that would be second. only to personal safety.

Oh, 100%. Logistically, I can't imagine it because, you know, there's questions like, do you have the whole specimen? Do you have parts of the specimen? And then once you have it, where is it being taken? And how is it getting there? And how are you potentially not getting stopped along the way? There's all these questions that are definitely proprietary.

All those questions have been discussed. And a lot of it is we have to let our investigators and the team leads for each of the operations. We have to rely on them. The team leads are selected based on their experience in Area X based on their experience as you're representing the type of individual that we need, that we believe is going to provide best judgment in those types of situations. So we rely on the team leader when they're out there to make those decisions. And the, again, what are we doing?

If something goes sideways, who's going to, beforehand, before the operation starts, it's already dictated. Who has what role in the event, if it's a collection team, in the event this happens, what is your role? And everyone is expected to assume that role to make sure that the operation goes smoothly from the time that the collection is made until the specimen is secured wherever that end location is determined to be. Absolutely.

Rick had mentioned a few really interesting things that have happened over the past five years. And something I would want to talk to you about today is you are involved with the asset, the all-female asset team, correct? That's correct. That's awesome. Can you describe how that came to be, how it works, and maybe some interesting interactions that have come about because of it?

Sure. It came about, I have to back up to the year prior. I talk about just it was it was like a week of master class. I, my very first week in Area X was with Alton Higgins, Daryl Collier, and Matt Pruitt. I mean, like, it really, it was, it was an amazing week. I learned so much about the topic. And all three of them are just, they represent the best of what we're trying to do. And I appreciate the opportunity so much to be able to learn from them.

But what led me to that particular team was a conversation that we had had on the forum, that they wanted to try and emulate this sound. of women and children because people report that when women and children are in the woods, it tends to attract the attention of these animals. This is Ashlyn Harris from Wide Open with Ashland Harris. All right, quick switch, because I want to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, vital proteins. But I can't really talk about vital proteins without talking about collagen first.

So, did you know that collagen makes up one-third of all the proteins? protein in your body. That's a lot of collagen. But our natural collagen production starts to dip at the age of 30, give or take a few years. So adding collagen peptides daily feels like a really simple way to support what your body already does. Now I know you've seen vital proteins, collagen peptides, iconic blue tub around before. It's literally everywhere. I mean, it is one of the most recognized collagen supplements out there. there's a real reason it's so popular. It supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. Vital Proteins has become a part of my daily routine. I mix it into my morning coffee or my smoothie.

It's really easy. You can't even taste it. And it fits right into my day so I can feel my best. For me, it's about staying strong and showing up fully every single day. It just fits into my life. I'm betting it will fit into yours too. You can add a serving to your morning coffee, your tea, smoothies, or oatmeal into whatever you're already having. And it dissolves easily with the neutral taste and no extra steps. Like I said, it fits right into your life. People use it for different reasons, some for beauty benefits, some for joint support. But for me, it's all about building a daily habit I can actually stick to. And that's the key with collagen peptides, consistency. One serving every day to support your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. And right now, you can get

20% off your next order by going to vital proteins.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is. is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark.

Unlike the other guys who can't say the same. Looks like bad dirt's murdering are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on Plant Killers. At the age of the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the job, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50, you have the virus that causes the Culebrilla. Although not all the persons in risk will be

I do not do you see. The eruption dolorousa with ampollosures durows' months, making that even the tasks more simple are all a retort. No, learn about the Culebrilla in the way

difficult. Talk Oh, So I sent a private message and said,

okay, here's the deal. At this time, I wasn't even an investigator yet. I was just

an associate member. I said, but if I'm invited to Area X, I would be willing to

be that noise maker. I, you know, sound like a look like a girl, smell like a girl, right? And it was kind of an opportunity to test what that might. It's not that women don't go. We have women investigators in the organization,

but typically so often what the operations are, it's very much the ideas to go in covertly. in camo, going into hides to try to get pictures, you know, try to go in covertly. I was going to do the complete opposite. I was going to be very out in the open. I was going to be as obvious as I could, laughing, singing, talking. I literally took perfume in to the valley, right, just so that I into area X so that I could smell different. I took a dress and this is really, really funny.

It's basically a little Donna Reed, a little white Donna Reed dress, and I had every intention of hiking the trails, wearing this dress, just to be different. And Alton says to me, because, you know, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. And I said, no, I don't mind if it gets, right? Right? If it helps? And he goes, no, right?

It's a great way to put it. And he's like, no, really, you don't have to do. And I said, it's, he just don't wear the dress. Like, purred, purred, purred, purred. It was really funny. I did not wear the dress. However, I did spend time away from camp, away from the main area, where I would sit, sing, talk.

I took a book, and I read out loud, and I laughed, and it cried, and I sang, and I hiked trails by myself to be as obvious as I could. And it was my very first day in Area X. I think it was, we had been there maybe two hours. We had unpacked our gear and gone over safety roles. We had gone over our rules if a collection happened to occur on that particular operational week. And they're like, okay, here you go. took me out to a location,

hiked me out, and said, hang out, do your thing. And while I was sitting there, taking a quiet moment, I heard my first Ohio how. In area X. It went on for eight to ten seconds, and I was just frozen

because I was like, am I hearing what I think I'm hearing? No, it was a distance away. But I was like, okay that was cool you know my first day my first hours in area X and actually pretty high so

okay moving moving forward at one point during the week I had um there was a terrible thunderstorm and it was lightning like crazy and there was it was

really a dangerous type storm and the guys are all in a tent somewhere else on the on the property close by but i i was in a cabin by myself basically and one of the vehicles is parked next to the cabin it's probably maybe three feet away from the window right right next to the cabin wall so it's very very close and this is I told this story enough times it's no longer embarrassing but at the time

I wanted to die I didn't want to tell anybody this but it is kind of funny I had run out of personal so I had to hand wash a pair of underpants and the night that it was storming I had this pair of underpants hanging in the window

to dry note to anyone who has never been nothing dries in the Washedaw Mountains. It's too humid. It is more humid in the Wachita Mountains than it is in Central Florida. So here they are.

It's storming like crazy and I've got this pair underwear hanging in the window, right? The storm finally breaks. I can hear something. It sounds, I can't tell if it's water dripping

off the roof of the cabin, but it also sounds like, a foot and I'm like, don't, you've got big foot on the brain. Don't, don't be that person. But I couldn't tell. It sounded like I could hear footsteps going around the cabin, the backside of the cabin.

And I'm trying to decide whether to get up and look. It's pitch black. You don't see anything out there. This is 3.30 in the morning. and all of a sudden, now the vehicle that's part next to the cabin is an SUV, all of a sudden something slams into the back of this SUV so hard that the roof rack rattles. The same way that you, if you slam the back deck of a SUV really hard, it makes everything rattled.

That's what it sounded like. It was so loud that one of the guys did get up and come out of the tent because they thought that gear was blowing around. At this point, though, the storm had slacked. So I heard them come out and go back in, because I heard the tent door zipper open and close. And the next morning, I was like, what were you doing out in your vehicle that late at night? And he was like, I didn't. I wasn't in my vehicle at all.

And I realized that if he had opened the back hatch, the light would have been in my face because the door was right outside my window. Something slammed into the back of his truck so hard that it caused the entire vehicle to rattle. Now, I don't know what it was, but it was the same window where I had my underpants hanging out to dry, right? So that's what gave me the idea. What if we had an all-female team? And I told them, when I volunteered, this is a little, out of order. I told them when I volunteered to go be the human. I would do it on one condition. Do not call me bait because bait is disposable. I would be considered an asset because an asset you will recover. And that's how the asset team name kind of came from. I'm like, okay, so what if we

had an entire asset team and got to talking to some people at training camp the following year. And we kind of put together a team from that where we had a group of ladies who were willing to go and stay at the cabin and just be us and laugh and giggle and be loud. and we played movies one night, and we did a campfire, and we were camping, right? But we were also being very vigilant with thermals and conducting Overwatch while an away team or a reaction force, depending on who you talk to, but the away team of collectors was staying some distance outside of our camp, and they would come in very covertly and take positions and in an attempt to be in position if we were able to get the attention of the wood apes to attract them

into camp. That proved to be quite successful, I do have to say. The activity that we had around camp was pretty exciting. That led to a number of encounters. We had a number of wood knocks, which are, you can account for a number of those that would occur about the same time in the evening, a number of vocalizations that were occurring right at dusk, that were coming just over the ridge line that were very primate in nature and were the closest I could come to were sounds that hollow monkeys would make. We also, I was sitting around the campfire one night, I was looking at about 60 yards away, and I'm seeing to what looked like, almost like embers in the hovering off the ground.

And I'm going, that should not be there. And I'm looking at an earshine, it estimated about eight feet off the ground. It was the first time I'd ever seen eye shine like that. And there were a number of incidents like that that occurred. but probably the most impactful were two incidents where one of our investigators on two different occasions was in a high position and could hear what I was mentioning earlier, that asthmatic breathing, where he described it as he said that the lung capacity was massive, hearing the air flowing in and out. He said it's like, you could just hear the volumes of air moving and the length of time that it took for the air to go in and out of this animal's lungs. And it was close.

He was able to go back and track how close the animal was to him. And it was actually rather close. He was just a matter of just a few yards away where this animal had come down the ridgeline. it is a 50, 50 degree angle, maybe 50 degree angle of the mountain up behind the cabin. And these animals can move on this rocky surface silently. And they creep in and you do not know that they are there. But it had come down and with just a few feet of him on two different occasions. he could hear the thing breathing.

One of the most dynamic, though, was one of our team members who was in position in his hide. And one of the animals he had used to thermal and didn't see anything. And we think that it was light from the thermal as he pulled the thorn in the way that kind of lit, kind of lit him up. and something from up the mountain charged him, came running down the mountain, and continued to jump moving from side to side in several spots before it finally retreated. He came down the mountain visibly, and this guy is as stoic as stoic comes. He's as level as they get. and we did a quick interview of his encounter what happened and then to kind of catch everything

and they went back up the mountain the next day where he was sitting there was a small sapling that had been shredded um he didn't do it but there's a sapling that had been shredded and there were imprints in the grounds the scuff marks in the ground where they could see he thought that the animal was jumping maybe five feet, and the distance was much greater than that. It was significantly greater than that. I think it was somewhere between eight and ten feet that the animal was jumping, the spots that it was jumping. And in one location, there were finger divvets in the ground, in the soil, and he put his hand down, and his fingertips were just touching where the finger marks were going in. He couldn't reach where the finger marks were going

into the ground, but it was all five. And it just, it wasn't deep enough to cast, but the imprint, the handprint was there. But it was, he's six, six, one, he's a good-sized guy. And his hand, could not, his full hand could not reach as far as where the finger holes went in. So that was probably the most dynamic thing that happened. This is Ashlyn Harris from wide open with Ashland Harris. All right, quick switch, because I want to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, vital proteins. But I can't really talk about vital proteins without talking about collagen first. So, did you know that collagen makes up one third of all the protein in your body? That's a lot of collagen. But our natural collagen production starts to dip at the age of 30,

give or take a few years. So adding collagen peptides daily feels like a really simple way to support what your body already does. Now I know you've seen vital proteins collagen peptides iconic blue tub around before. It's literally everywhere. I mean, it is one of the most recognized collagen supplements out there. And there's a real reason it's so popular. It supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. Vital Proteins has become a part of my daily routine. I mix it into my morning coffee or my smoothie. It's really easy. You can't even taste it. And it fits right into my day so I can feel my best. For me, it's about staying strong and showing up fully every single day. It just fits into my life. I'm betting it will fit into yours too. You can add a serving to your morning coffee. You can add a serving to your morning coffee.

your tea, smoothies, or oatmeal into whatever you're already having. And it dissolves easily with the neutral taste and no extra steps. Like I said, it fits right into your life. People use it for different reasons. Some for beauty benefits, some for joint support. But for me, it's all about building a daily habit I can actually stick to. And that's the key with collagen peptides, consistency. One serving every day to support your hair.

skin, nails, bones, and joints. And right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to VitalProtines.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore One Nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer, the ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed in garden soil.

It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. As getting to the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the

work, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 have been the virus that causes the Culebriya. Although not

all the persons in risk, it will be the eruption dolorosa with ampollos during the times,

making that even the tasks more simple are all a lot of the way difficult.

Talked today. Talked on your doctor or pharmaceutical, patrocinated for GSK. to be bluff charged and come down that mountain and still have clean pants.

I don't know how many people could have done that. We had rocks thrown at us. Weird things happening like I radioed to the guys. I'm like, were you guys up in like midnight? And they're like, no, we were out by 9, not by 9 o'clock. I heard the only way I could describe it is orc laughter from like the the orcs from like Lord of the Rings. Oh yeah. It was like that.

Sure. I heard orc laughter in the like 12, 1230 at night. I'm like, what are the guys doing up this late? And they're in good distance away because I could hear it echoing. It was so loud. I could hear it echoing. But that's the best way I could describe it. And then I heard samurai speech that that operational week as well, where I thought it was somebody talking in their sleep and it turned out that it wasn't them talking in their sleep.

It was them. There was something enunciating, but it wasn't the person that I thought it was. We had a number of things happen. The most, for me personally, I think the, I don't want to call it scary, but I had gone to the latrine. The latrine is a short walk away from the cabin, maybe 25, 30 yards away from the cabin. It's 7 o'clock in the morning. No one else is up, and this was after a very active night where there was, quite a bit of, we heard quite a bit of movement. We heard

the, that was the night that I heard the samurai speech. And seven o'clock in the morning and I go down to a latrine. I hear nothing. And open the latrine door, come out, lock the latrine door. And as I'm walking back toward the cabin to my right, up the mountain, and this is only probably maybe, it's maybe 30 feet away that the valley, the floor of this, where the site is, where the cabin is located, the flat area, it's only like 20, 30 feet away, and the mountain goes straight up. There is something massive, busting up the mountain, and it cleared in four big, huge push. It's just one, two, three, four.

it probably pushed up the height of about a three-story building. It just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and it was gone. And the path that it cleared of brush was four feet wide, four, five feet wide. It was massive. The foliage there is so thick with Greenbrier and other brush. I couldn't see what was moving. But this animal was sitting at the base of the mountain. 20, 25 feet away from me.

And I'm going, okay, this just happened. That is why you make sure that you are safety focused and you are carrying something to protect yourself with and you don't go anywhere along. People can do whatever they want, but for safety, don't go anywhere alone. and shortly after that it was very grateful that someone else was awake and moving around and again telling me about their encounter for the night which was also quite exciting. So that was probably the most exciting thing that happened to me that particular week. But all of this is happening right in the same area.

It's right behind the cabin. and the location where we operate, it's in the same general area. The animals are coming in because it's part of their home range. And they are, I don't necessarily think that they are coming to see what we're up to. I think that we happen to be close to a resource that they find valuable. and while they're there, they're wanting to know what we're up to and they find us curious.

So when we turn the lights off and maybe let the fire go out, they get curious, hey, where'd you go? And they'll start throwing rocks, that sort of thing. Okay. Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

So some really intense stuff is still happening to the organization, which is great to hear that there's still activity. Someone is probably need to follow up. So, and you can just, it can just be a short answer. The, so the undergarment that you hung up,

did that disappear or was it still there the next day? No, no, that was still there. It was actually inside the cabin because I was there with the guys. I didn't want to. I told them, I said, you know, you guys don't bother me, so don't let you bother you. However, I was not going to hang it outside the cabin. It was still inside the cabin.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went home with those. Yeah, I went home with those. Good, good. Have there been times in the last five years where individuals have had actual sightings of what ape in that area? Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. we have had the since the

since Mike wrote his book there have been a number of incidents where people have had sightings there are there are oh gosh people who have seen full on bipedal

apes walking across the trail in front of them there have been sightings of a cinnamon-colored ape, a siding of one that is color of the, like an old buck. I saw what I believe to be an ape. It was a very brief siding. It was quadrupedal. But it certainly was not a deer, and it was not a bear. It didn't move or behave like that.

and the back end of this animal was so broad that it doesn't fit criteria for anything else, but it was the color of an old buck, not really brown, not really tan, really, really dark tan, somewhere in between. There have been sightings of smaller, not kind of a juvenile black, very usually the smaller ones are considered to be usually they're identified as being black the smaller ones

last year I believe it was that one of our investigators saw the animal was hanging from a tree limb and then dropped to the ground and that one was he described that one as being jet black

and then kind of you know it took off we've had a number of visuals in the last five years and in the last two or three years in particular we have been it appears that we haven't been as active because we haven't been we haven't been as present in on social media but we have still been very active we're a volunteer organization and we need volunteers to be able to do these things, right? And if we don't have someone who's available to do those things, then the podcast don't get done or the social media posts don't get done. But we do still have members who are dedicated and we do still have folks that are boots on the ground every single year.

And as a result, we are having those encounters. which do include visuals. And that's been for the last three years, we lost five years for sure, but definitely for the last three years, we've consistently had weeks where there have been a number of sightings. Oh, that's fantastic. Do you feel like there have been any substantial photo or video evidence

that's been captured through those visual encounters? Video evidence, not that we have seen, We've had some thermal evidence that we are very carefully analyzing. We are not ready to release that thermal evidence yet. It is very compelling. That came from the asset team. It is compelling. It is disturbing if you see it.

But it is, as with anything, kind of a neat blot. If you look at it, different people look at it. Different people are going to tell you different things. So we're still analyzing it to determine how whether or not, you know, we're ready to release that. We're very conservative. We don't want to put something out and say this is what we think it is. We're not going to put something out and say, yeah, this is 100% definitive.

This is evidence of this is video. normal video of what a we we want to analyze it we want to be conservative about it um we did get we do have a member who had some photographs through it's through foliage so difficult gosh it's hard to describe it is so difficult to get video or photographs because the washtown mountains are so dense uh people tell just get drones in there. How? You can't fly them under the foliage. It's too thick. And you can't see anything through the top of foliage because it's too thick. But there were some photographs that were taken that you can see it looks. It's very compelling. It doesn't have the shape of a bear,

but it does have a dark charcoal to black coat. And it, it, It has the, it has the shape of an animal, of a bipedal. So we, it compelling, they're interesting. The photographs are interesting. But they're not, they're not to the point where we're going to put them out and say, hey, world, we have definitive evidence because they're not quite there. As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of photographs that come out looking like a blob squash.

if it's not equal to or better than the Patterson Gimlin film, we really don't have anything that moves the needle. Sure. You might not be able to answer this, but how can a thermal image be disturbing? Depending on who you ask, and depending on what they see, when I looked at the thermal video,

I put it up on my big screen TV. it's HD what I saw was an animal that was creeping

very slowly forward at a very controlled pace and at one point you can see the animal's bottom lip drop down

I let me rephrase that I I in my interpretation I see the animal's bottom lip open and I can see teeth and it looks like the it looks like the animals opening and closing its mouth two or three times oh my goodness and then and and then it's kind of creeping forward this way and it moves its mouth and then it it kind of drifts back into its previous position and then moves forward outside the range of the thermal behind some foliage. So it's disturbing at the clarity. You can see fingers. I can see fingers in the thermal. And I could see the bottom lip, which was, I can't even do what the bottom lip was doing. It was long. The bottom lip dipped forward more than what humans can't can typically do. And in doing so, I could see teeth in the thermal. And that was what I found

disturbing. Yeah. And that was, that was what I saw in the thermal. What I saw, the clarity of that, I found disturbing. So we're, we're not sure. Yeah. So you guys must have some really good equipment then. The individual who took that thermal had a nice high-end thermal. That's some, the organization has some equipment. Individuals choose to bring in their own equipment. I go in with my own. This individual, I believe, was using his own equipment, which was higher-end equipment as well.

And his equipment was able to capture. And it was, again, everyone who looks at it has a slightly different interpretation and that's why the organization isn't willing to release it or or say definitively what it was my interpretation of what I saw it looks to me as if there is an animal that is opening and closing its mouth and and I can see teeth so yes from from thermal that he took it's he has a He has a nicer equipment, yes. That is, that is fantastic.

Who knows, hopefully someday that might be released, but I totally get it. I know different organizations have things that they hold on to for years, and that is, you know, that's their prerogative and that's all right. I know we're getting close to the end of our time today, but maybe time for or one or two more questions. Have there been a time in the last five years where things have, gone sideways or almost gone sideways or has it been pretty well under control? I don't believe that there's been time, to my knowledge, or hasn't been times where things have gone sideways. For example, when the individual was bluff charged,

you could consider that going sideways. I think that any time you're in the woods, anything could go sideways. You could have an individual fall and get injured or snake, but there are a number of things that could go wrong when you're in this environment. And medical help is three hours away by the time you get out because they're not going to come in for you. But to my knowledge, we have not had anything where we've had either with the apes or not. we've had anything go sideways. The teams are generally so well disciplined and they are so cohesive

that we've been able to work through issues that have come up. We have had team members who have had to lead the area and go seek medical help. This is Ashlyn Harris from Wide Open with Ashland Harris. All right, quick switch, because I want to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, vital proteins. But I can't really talk about vital proteins without talking about collagen first. So, did you know that collagen makes up one-third of all the protein in your body? That's a lot of collagen. But our natural collagen production starts to dip at the age of 30, give or take a few years. So adding collagen peptides daily feels like a really simple way to support what your body already does. Now, I know you've seen.

vital proteins, collagen peptides, iconic blue tub around before. It's literally everywhere. I mean, it is one of the most recognized collagen supplements out there. And there's a real reason it's so popular. It supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. Vital Proteins has become a part of my daily routine. I mix it into my morning coffee or my smoothie. It's really easy. You can't even taste it. And it fits right into my day so I can feel my best. For me, it's about staying strong and showing up fully every single day. It just fits into my life. I'm betting it will fit into yours too. You can add a serving to your morning coffee, your tea, smoothies, or oatmeal into whatever you're already having. And it dissolves easily with the neutral taste and no extra steps. Like I said,

it fits right into your life. People use it for different. reasons, some for beauty benefits, some for joint support, but for me, it's all about building a daily habit I can actually stick to. And that's the key with collagen peptides, consistency. One serving every day to support your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. And right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to vitalproteins.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable

killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. At the get to the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the job, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 you have the virus that causes the Culebrilla.

Although not all the persons in risk will be developed, I see the eruption dolorousa with ampollosos duos'amas, making that even the tasks more simple are all a retort. No, learn about the Culebrilla of the way difficult.

Talked or Pharmaceutical, patrocinoed for GSC. But they were able to do so either on their own or with the assistance of, like, one person to drive them out, but not in a situation that was such an emergency situation

where, like you say, go sideways. The organization has been very fortunate that we've been able to continue to conduct operations in a way that we've remained safe. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, yeah, it could go totally different. In the last few years, what do you feel the closest an individual with the organization has come to a wood ape? in terms of like distance. The two that I mentioned where, yeah, where, the one individual got bluff charged and the other individual had that animal sitting within just,

I think it was within five yards of his location. Literally, the animal sat down within five yards of him and just sat down. I don't know if you heard that ping or not. I hope not. the animal just sat down within about five yards of his location and he could hear breathing and that the animal knew he was there had to have known he was there i'm of the opinion that if you do all of the you can wash your clothes and in and the non the non smell the dead down wind and you can douse yourself and dead downwind, then you can put all of the stuff on you. So you smell like the

outdoors. At the end of the day, we're human beings and we still sweat. And whenever you ate and toothpaste you use, you are going to smell like a human when you go in there. And I believe that the animals are going to smell you. I had, I was in a hide location. And I was in a good hide location at 50 yards, the other team member who put me in that spot, could not see me. And he knew I was there. And I was on the edge of a ravine and at about 15 feet over my head, something approached the edge of the ravine. I could hear it when it walked up and I could hear it sniffing and growling.

Ed's, it was going, growling and sniffing the air. It could smell me, but it couldn't see me. That was fun. That's a moment when you realize what you're going to do if you're in that situation. When you're in that situation, you realize what you're going to do. They know you're there. It doesn't matter what you do. I believe they know you're there.

And I believe that they knew that this investigator was sitting very close to him. And the animal didn't care. It just sat there and then it moved on. So I technically, I believe that the animal that approached me was an ape, and that animal would literally been about 15 feet away from me. The animal that approached the other team member would have been about five yards away from him, if that. and the animal that bluff charged, the other team member,

was probably as close as that within three to five yards as well. So the animals that get close, they don't have a lot to be afraid of. As long as they can maintain cover, they don't have a lot to be afraid of from us. But they do maintain, they do stay out of sight from us. Because I believe they know. I mean, they see, if we can see them, they're in more danger.

Because at the end of the day, I mean, you're looking at what you have estimated to be in there. I mean, much bigger than the size of like a mountain gorilla, correct? Absolutely. At least, at least twice the size of a mountain gorilla. The ones that I have seen, the one that I saw when I was four had to be at least seven foot tall because it would. down on me. The animal that I saw, I've seen two in the green swamp and that one had to be at least seven foot tall, seven and a half. And they are, they are broad. So the animal that I saw quadrupedally, if that was one, that's 18 inches and that was one,

Glute. The three foot, three foot wide back end, all right? And it was at least five feet off the ground. That's the rump. If the rump, the top of the rump was five feet off the ground, and that animal stood up, then make the estimate of how tall that animal would have been. They're, it's incredible.

They're large. They're very large animals. And they can move. with incredible speed and agility and absolutely silently when they wish. And that is, that is what astonishes me, that they can creep in so silently, taking advantage of the wind or, I mean, all predatory animus will do that. They'll take advantage of wind and another noise to move. and then they'll wait.

They're very patient. They'll just wait. So they, they, they are very smart. They're very, very smart. They're incredible. They are, there are a lot of animals that people will obsess over for various and sundry reasons. The reason that I obsess over this animal is because of the personal encounters

that I've had, but also because they are just fascinating, their behaviors. We don't know what they mean when they vocalize. We don't know why they make. We don't even truly know how they're making sounds if they're knocking on trees. are they really hitting trees with sticks? We may be looking at evidence that indicates that they, chimpanzees, they've documented chimpanzees are collecting rocks by trees. And we have found evidence that appears that rocks have been collected by trees.

Now, have the apes done that or have humans done that? We're looking into that. That is something that we've observed in areas. X. So we don't have documentation as the aves are doing that, but we do have documentation that we do have evidence. We're looking at certain types of trees that have marks on them, scar marks on them, that indicate that that may be the type of tree that where the knocks are coming from. We are looking at where those rocks are being collected, and there is a correlation between the rocks being collected at these certain types of trees, is that a one-off or a two-off,

or is there enough data there? We're looking into that. We don't know exactly, but we're looking into that. And that's the type of stuff that we're trying to collect data for. That's the type of science that we're trying to make sense of, that we're trying to apply and make sense of. It's a lot. Yeah, really exciting. This is all very exciting to hear that stuff like this is still happening. We're the organization. And thank you so much for coming on, Tammy Grimes.

And do you mind taking a few minutes and just sharing how people can keep up to date with NAWAC, you know, anything that you would want listeners to know about different things? things that they can look into or keep up to date with or even try to become a member of the NAWAC. Sure, absolutely. We are working on the podcast. We do have a team who is working on the podcast. It's not the frequency that it had been in the past, but we are working on the podcast.

So keep tuned to the Apes Among Us podcast. That's available directly off of the NAWC website, which is what a. This is Ashlyn Harris from Wide Open with Ashland Harris. All right, quick switch, because I want to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, vital proteins. But I can't really talk about vital proteins without talking about collagen first. So, did you know that collagen makes up one-third of all the protein in your body? That's a lot of collagen.

But our natural collagen production starts to dip at the age of 30, give or take a few years. So adding collagen peptides daily feels like a really simple way to support what your body already does. Now I know you've seen vital proteins collagen peptides iconic blue tub around before. It's literally everywhere. I mean, it is one of the most recognized collagen supplements out there. And there's a real reason it's so popular. It supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. Vital Proteins has become a part of my daily routine. I mix it into my morning coffee or my smoothie. It's

really easy. You can't even taste it. And it fits right into my day so I can feel my best. For me, it's about staying strong and showing up fully every single day. It just fits into my life. I'm betting it will fit into yours too. You can add a serving to your morning coffee, your tea, smoothies, or oatmeal into where. And to whatever you're already having. And it dissolves easily with the neutral taste and no extra steps. Like I said, it fits right into your life. People use it for different reasons, some for beauty benefits, some for joint support. But for me, it's all about building a daily habit I can actually stick to. And that's the key with collagen peptides, consistency. One serving every day to support your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. And right now,

you can get 20% off your next order by going to vital proteins.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad?

answer, the ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed in garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers.

At the age to the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the job, and that the

99% of the people of the most of the virus that causes the Culebriya. Although not all the

people in risk, they're I do with ampollows during the show us making that even the

more simple are all a lot of the little bit of the little. Talked

or Pharmacetitia patrocinado for GSK. You can add says it there, and I believe that you could pick it up on whatever podcast application that you use. We are also working on getting our Facebook more current, so it's not quite there yet, but we are working on getting our Facebook account more active, so keep an eye on that. We are working on some other

projects as well that we hope to have it they're not short-term these are more long-term we're working on another washtale monograph hoping to have something out soon that's been to be several months so that's that's long-term research that needs to be done based on the last five years of activity that we've had and kind of focusing more on behavioral what we've seen animals doing behaviorally. And outside of, outside of those things, we're working on some other things to try and get more engagement with the community because we know that the work that we're doing is important. And we want the community at large to know more about what we're doing. And we haven't been letting our little light shine. We really need to do a better job of letting a little light shine.

If anyone is interested in becoming a member, it is same website. WhatApe.org. You can follow the links on the website and go to the application, fill out an application there. Also, if anyone is interested in just supporting what we do, if you don't necessarily want to be a member and be involved with the investigative process, but that you would like to participate in the act in supporting our research. There's also a place there that you can fill out a form for donation. And we would put that toward equipment. We would put that toward funding things like our initiative for EDNA research

that we're going to be working on this coming operational year. So if you are interested in helping see this move to fruition, that would be a good way to support the organization. That is awesome. So listeners, I'll have links in the show notes about all that good stuff. But thank you again, Tammy, for coming on the show. And a special thanks to the NAWAC for allowing myself to talk to yourself today and Rick a few episodes ago. I always happy to hear about what is going on and to talk to individuals within the organization.

But thank you so much. It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Have you ever heard all the accounts of Bigfoot activity around Oak Ridge, Oregon? And you think to yourself, man, I would love to get out in those woods and experience it for myself. Well, guess what? This year, you can. If this is interesting to you, stay tuned because it's pretty cool.

Sasquatch Summerfest is coming up July 10th through the 11th, 2026. it's going to be even better than the previous years reason number one i'll be one of the speakers it's going to be wild i'll probably i'll say this there may be stuff you haven't heard anywhere else because let's just say sometimes it's uh well you just got to be there we'll leave it that more about looking for bigfoot in the oakridge woods now check this out you may know Jason Kenzie from his documentary series searching for Sasquatch. Well this year you can not only go to the festival but you can

also sign up for a trek deep in the wild forest outside of Oak Ridge with Jason Kenzie to the Bigfoot spots to look for Bigfoot. There's only eight spots to sign up for this and yes this will also be filmed for the next chapter in his documentary series, which is searching for Sasquatch. This is a once-in-lifetime deal.

It's just, trust me, it's going to be a wild, wild experience. To get a ticket, head on over to Sasquatch Summerfest.com, and listeners can use the code BSP, like Bigfoot Society podcast, in order to get a two-day pass for the price of a one-day pass. So thanks to Priscilla for, giving me that code so that you guys can can get a little a little help with the cost there. Appreciate that, Priscilla. I hope to see you at the booth in Oak Ridge this year.

We can talk about your encounter. I was able to talk to so many people last year and the year before. It is an incredible time. You're not going to want to miss it. And I'll see you there. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly. to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch, or forces,

and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a National Park Ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, if you're a pilot who's seen something strange, down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI, a federal agency, or working intelligence, and you've stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about,

and if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search-and-rescue responder, who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense. If you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field or trucker with government contracts, and you've had something happen that you've never told a soul, and if you're a biologist, a wildlife specialist, or a field researcher under contract, who has found evidence you're not allowed to report, if you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat,

and you saw something that shook your faith, or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA, or anything with clearance, and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you. Even if it's anonymous, you can reach me at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. The world needs to hear what you've been forced to carry alone, and you're not alone.

You've got the story. We've got the mic. See you in the woods. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast. Every encounter we share reminds us that the world is bigger and stranger than we think and that the truth is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the channel on YouTube, hit the bell so you don't miss the next episode, and share this with a friend who's into mysteries,

monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple Podcast, please follow the show there and leave us a five-star positive review because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember, if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot citing, please, I'd love to hear from you. So email me at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com, and let's start the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check out our membership community over at www.w.com.com. And that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode today, early and ad-free, and members-only episodes every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other

people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot Society. Until next time, keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop asking what else might be out there and see you in the woods. This is Ashlyn Harris from Wide Open with Ashland Harris. All right, quick switch, because I want to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, vital proteins. But I can't really talk about vital proteins without talking about collagen first. So, did you know that collagen makes up one-third of all the protein in your body? That's a lot of collagen. But our natural collagen production starts to dip at the age of 30, give or take a few years. So adding collagen peptides daily feels like a really simple way to support what your body already does.

Now, I know you've seen vital proteins, collagen peptides, iconic blue tub around before. It's literally everywhere. I mean, it is one of the most recognized collagen supplements out there. And there's a real reason it's so popular. It supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. Vital Proteins has become a part of my daily routine. I mix it into my morning coffee or my smoothie. It's really easy. You can't even taste it. And it fits right into my day so I can feel my best. For me, it's about staying strong and showing up fully every single day. It just fits into my life. I'm betting it will fit into yours too. You can add a serving to your morning coffee, your tea, smoothies, or oatmeal into whatever you're already having. And it dissolves easily with the neutral taste and no extra steps. Like I said, it fits right into

your life. People use it for different reasons, some for beauty benefits, some for joint support. But for me, it's all about building a daily habit I can actually stick to. And that's the key with collagen peptides, consistency. One serving every day to support your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. And right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to vital proteins.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins. These statements have not been evaluated by the food and,

Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same. Looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow.

Join us next time on Plant Killers. At the age of the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the work, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 have the virus that cause a Culebrilla.

Although not all the people in risk the will be the eruption dolorousa with ampollas duros'omas, making that even the tasks more simple be a whole a retort. No,

learn about the Culebrilla to the way difficult. Talk with your

doctor or pharmaceutical for GSK. This is Ashlyn Harris from Wide Open

with Ashland Harris. All right, quick switch because I want to tell you about

one of our favorite sponsors Vital Proteins. But I can't

really talk about vital proteins without talking about collagen

first. So, did you know that collagen makes up one third

of all the protein in your body? That's a lot of collagen. but our natural collagen production starts to dip at the age of 30, give or take a few years.

So adding collagen peptides daily feels like a really simple way to support what your body already does. Now I know you've seen vital proteins, collagen peptides, iconic blue tub around before. It's literally everywhere. I mean, it is one of the most recognized collagen supplements out there. And there's a real reason it's so popular. It supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. Vital Proteins has become a part of my daily routine. I mix it into my morning coffee or my smoothie.

It's really easy. You can't even taste it. And it fits right into my day so I can feel my best. For me, it's about staying strong and showing up fully every single day. It just fits into my life. I'm betting it will fit into yours too. You can add a survey. to your morning coffee, your tea, smoothies, or oatmeal into whatever you're already having.

And it dissolves easily with the neutral taste and no extra steps. Like I said, it fits right into your life. People use it for different reasons, some for beauty benefits, some for joint support, but for me, it's all about building a daily habit I can actually stick to. And that's the key with collagen peptides, consistency. One serving, every day to support your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints. And right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to vitalproteins.com and using promo code wide open 20 at checkout. Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore One Nation's most-to-note. The notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients.

But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same. Looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers.

As getting to the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the work, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50

have the virus that causes the Culebrilla. Although not all the persons in risk, it will be the eruption

dolorosa with ampollos of longs, making that even the tasks more simple are all a

problem. No, learns about the Culebrilla to the Culebril to the

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Learn more at Viz.com. On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed and garden soil.

It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on Plant Killers.