Bigfoot Society - Bigfoot, Bridgewater Triangle and Area 51 with John Horrigan

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

John Horrigan is as he says “the wolf howling at the grapes. He’s been a paranormal investigator for almost 40 years and involved with many aspects of Bigfooting over that time. In this episode we talk about Bigfoot researchers in the 1990s, the Bridgewater Triangle, Area 51 adventures, Bigfoot hoaxers and more. He has also received five Boston/New England Emmy Awards (and had twenty nominations) for his role as host and writer of the critically-acclaimed television show entitled "The Folklorist". The program even featured paranormal segments on the Gloucester Sea Serpent, Ape Canyon, The Angels of Mons, Spring-heeled Jack and the Dover Demon. Note: This interview does get into some New England history involving Native Americans and Colonial settlers so please be prepared for that. Resources:Mysterious America by Loren Coleman https://amzn.to/3wVygCv (affiliate link)The Folklorist on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@The_FolkloristDisclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guest(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Jeremiah Byron and Bigfoot Society.If anyone knows how to get in touch with Mike McDonald from Hamilton, Ontario please let me know: [e-mail]_______Join the only Facebook group for Van Meter Visitor fans - “Van Meter Visitor Believers” - See you there!https://www.facebook.com/groups/vanmetervisitorbelievers/?ref=shareFOR MORE INFO ON THE VAN METER VISITOR FESTIVAL:https://www.facebook.com/vanmetervisitorfestival/_______Join us over on Patreon! Get access to extra audio content, exclusive merch like a membership card and stickers, watch me interview guests weekly live on video, a Patron-only Discord and more.https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyPick up a Bigfoot Society shirt to rep the podcast!https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietyTune in for new episodes of Bigfoot Society!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7QFor full links go to:www.bigfootsocietypodcast.com

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Thick Briers, swamps, thorns, mosquitoes with three different AAA diseases, ticks with Lyme disease, large snakes, fish or cats, you know, they say, you know, sparrows the size of spitfires.

And it listened to me. It walked out of thicket. It turned around and looked at me. They looked up and in this tree there was a monkey man. And the monkey man jumped down out of the tree and started running away. And suddenly they're right in front of the car. He slams on the brakes and manages to stop and you're skidding because it's not quite, you know,

and gravelling. And literally for about a second and a half, they just stood there because they don't know where to go. And you tell them, panic, you know, like, with nothing, their face is like twitching. Welcome back to Bigfoot Society, a podcast where we focus on cryptids, the strange and the unexplained of this world. If you've got a story or something weird to share, send an email over to me at Bigfoot. Society at gmail.com and if you'd like to support this show head on over to patreon.com forward slash the bigfoot society and now on with the show all right bigfoot society i've got the

privilege of talking to mr john horrigan uh today and uh i've been looking forward to this one for sure uh we're mutual well we're both friends uh with alex pedicoff so uh i was like alice who do who do I want to interview next, and he's like, you've got to talk to John because it's going to blow your mind. So, John, you've been involved with the paranormal. You've been investigated for 30 plus years. You've been in local access TV, radio, all over the place. What do the listeners need to know about you to paint the picture before we get into it? I guess when I married my wife, she didn't realize that three of my other personalities were waiting for us down in the car.

I guess just to start off Alex Petacoff, I consider him to be a good friend. One of the greatest filmmakers of our time, so gifted at such a young age. And what he's done the past few years during COVID in terms of Bigfoot investigations, thorough, scientific, fact-based approach, I think he's done the study, a good service. So I'm proud to be a friend of his and he a friend of mine. Absolutely. Yeah. So I guess to answer your question, I guess it was 1989 when I heard Unsolved Mysteries. Well, I mean back up in search of, I'm an old man, in search of Leonard Nimoy, the Patterson Gimlin film.

There you go. Okay. Blew me away as a kid. To this day, they tried to put four people in the costume. Just deal with it accepted as authentic. That's the way I do. And I move on. I've already accepted that. I've spoken with Bob Gimlin and I got to hang out with them. So to me, I no longer even. debate it. It's nice. That's an ape-like creature. It's a footage. There's nobody in a costume deal with it. But that happened when I watched In Search of. And then I read a story about ape Canyon, about these alleged, I like to use a term, man-beast anthropoids, attack this cabin in 1924 in Mount St. Helens. And then, of course, the UFO stories, right? I read in the early 80s about the encounters in upstate New York.

And then Roswell, it came onto my radar in a book that I got in 1982. UFO crash at Roswell was the first book ever put out by Bill Moore with help by Charles Burlitz. And I thought that how can a UFO crash come across the universe and crash into the side of a mountain? And I said, either there's no UFO crashes or there's a litany. So I've tried to quit Roswell, but I went to deep dive visiting Roswell three times, talking to all the witnesses, the original witnesses, not the people who backdated themselves into the story. And I made friends with a guy named Don Keating in Central Ohio, who's been investigating Bigfoot since the late 70s. I mean, he's the real deal. And getting involved with some of the encounters that he was having in Kashokton County in eastern Ohio.

And to me, the unexplained, the paranormal, the unknown, and even divine mysteries have always been, makes this world just out of reach. It's beyond normality. And I like to say that we have to understand that we may not be able to understand. And I pinched that from Jacques Valet, the French UFO researcher. And since that time, you know, people laugh about Bigfoot. I've never seen one. I've never heard one. I've interacted with some of the great researchers,

but I believe in people who said that they've encountered Bigfoot. Okay? I've seen if I could act like they did, tears in the eyes of some of these people and being so sincere, I wish I had that acting ability, but they're not acting. They're telling the truth. And they're continually consistent.

So it's time to accept these people have heard something out back, right? or they found footprints or scat or hair or something howling, glowing eyes. I believe in all of that. And moreover, with so many more cell phone cameras available, you're getting more footage. There's a guy Todd Standing. Have you heard of him? I have. Yeah.

Oh, he's a hoax. No, no, no, no, no. He's remote. He's making a connection with something way out in the bush. Okay. And there's certain people, for whatever reason, I can't explain, that have a connection. with this phenomena, that this phenomena tends to exhibit itself more to them than opposed to mundane John, you know. So I just run the gambit and I walked away from it as the Internet came around in the late 90s.

I figured I was the wolf howling at the grapes just out of reach. I'm never going to find an answer. And I remember driving out of Roswell for my final time in 1997 at the 50th anniversary saying, you know, if they disclosed, those UFOs exist, it won't even make the news. And that happened in December of 2017 when the Navy came out with all this footage. Oh, yeah. And nobody could even bat an aisle. So what? And I've accepted it. To me, it's not if. The question is who, where, and I guess how. And then that it's an expansive universe that we're in. And moreover, we don't know about our own mud ball. And there are vast tracts of land that are uninhabited and a creature is such a bipedal entity like this,

to get away from the human being, it could go way into an area where we couldn't live because these things, they run faster than humans, their senses or the smell, hearing, or eyesight is just phenomenal, non-human in our sense. So I can accept that, that these beings, whatever they are, are far advanced. And tell you what, I said this 28 years ago, and I'll tell you to, they didn't catch one then and they're not going to catch one. Do you think we'll never catch one? Nope. Wow.

Nope. Nope. I just think it's, you would have caught one by now. And then we had the, who are the, the, the hoaxers from the Minnesota Iceman up until, who is the guy there, did it twice. And people fell for it twice. The guy who said in Florida, he had a Bigfoot corpse. I forget Todd. No.

Oh, this is going to get. get me in trouble because I'm going to. Either way, but you don't say. I'm just going to randomly throw out names at Tom. Biscardi, right? There you go. There you go. I was like, is it Dyer, Biscardi?

So I think Biscardi's research is pretty good. Okay. But I think that that whole thing was a circus act. He might have been duped by somebody. But whenever I hear they found a body, I say two words. Yeah, right. I just don't think it. They'll find Harris.

temples, close encounters, but it's just, it's too elusive. And that begs the question. I mean, I don't want to tick off the flesh and bludders, but after reading about Skinwalker Ranch, the book by Combe Kelleher in 2006 and seeing this hairy creature come out of a light portal. The portal, yes. And Stan Gordon, who's one of my heroes, Stan with the Westmoreland encounters of 1973 in western Pennsylvania. Chestnut Ridge, yeah.

Freaky, okay? And it's associated with strange lights. So I don't know how the phenomenon is intertwined, but I believe Stan's research. He's a just-the-fax type of guy. I believe Alex's research, Don Keating's research, and all the great researchers that I got to meet, like Renee DeHinden, Grover Krantz,

Peter Byrne, who I interviewed extensively, and John Green, who I got to stay at his house. And Green, I got to thumb through his card index. Really? And look at all of it. Yeah. So I was very blessed. But I believe in the phenomena, I'm not one who goes out in the woods.

I'm a hotel guy. I need a CPAP, but I'll go camping. But when these guys, these deep hunters go deep into the woods, like Alex is a perfect example. He'll go into the interior, these remote areas to where there's a known history. And listen and set up camp. And I think that he's again doing this science, and that's what it is. It is a science. That he's doing a good service.

And I think that the evidence that he's brought back is key. And he's gone to these hotspots. He's released, he did something when he went to the Colorado incident, he showed me something that never made his doc about some creature banging on the side of a camper and then showing this entity run away. It was kind of spooky. This family had been reporting interacting with this creature. And I think the BFRO, I know I'm rambling here, but the BFRO, I had to run him with Matt Moneymaker.

Oh, did you? In 1996. Really? So two years after he recorded the Ohio Howell. Correct. That's wild. But he's a cool dude. I think his show is awesome, right?

Was it Finding Bigfoot? Yeah. I mean, I knew that would be a hit. I saw the first show. And I said, this is going to be a hit. And what he's done, okay, by plotting all the areas where the sightings have been and categorizing them, right? I think it's real cool. That, to me, we're getting closer to an answer.

We may not get the final answer, but at least we're getting clues. And now we're gathering the information of where the hotspots are. And I believe, this is my theory, that Bigfoot sightings of the past are in the same area of today and will be in the same areas in the future, if that makes any sense. Why do you think that is? I just think that there's been a tradition of Wildman. If you look at the newspaper clippings from the 19th century, I love old Bigfoot reports, like pre-John Green, pre the term Bigfoot, right? I mean, that whole story in itself, I had some run-ins with Ray Wallace back in the day in the 90s.

And I got a box full of letters that I showed Alex. And he was battling dementia, I think, because he was saying that a million people visited his petting zoo and that he was in a tree when the Bigfoot came up and just telling some tall tales and that he was responsible for all of the footprints. That's like those two old guys in England being responsible for all the crop circles. That's BS. No. So, but all the investigations of the Pacific Northwest, before that, trappers moving west as they appropriated lands from the Native Americans, they would encounter these wild men. And there are periodicals from the 1840s, 50s, and 60s, and even in New England, stating that there's some sort of creature there.

So it's not a hoax. It's not Ray Wallace. It's not a misidentification. It's not a big ha-ha. There's something out there. We just don't know what it is. And it's been around for hundreds of years in different areas. And it's not just native to the Northwest and British Columbia or the Himalayas or Australia.

It's seen everywhere. And I'm sure some places in Rhode Island it's been seen. So it's, it's, I'm sure, I'm sure somewhere in Rhode Island. And there are a lot of, yeah. And Jeremiah, a lot of people don't want to come forward because they're scorn and ridicule. Oh, I know. I mean, how about me, Catholic? I believe God, Jesus Christ and I believe in Bigfoot.

Sure. How about me? I have some feeling for me. And I believe in UFOs, right? I'm trying to work out the equation, but I've talked to too many people that have had firsthand encounters or seen something or heard something or had the smell, saw the eyes, felt being watched. And they're not lying.

This happened to them. Quick story. I was at Don Keating's conference. I spoke there 13 years ago. Big Hunter, he's 6'6. He's in a camera, he's got a chew tobacco. And he's bumping me like physical, like, yeah, big for it.

And I'm saying, like, what's this dude? Dude's going to clock me or something. I had beer. And then I said, dude, what's your problem? You know, he said, well, I've seen what I think. And I know the woods. And he went on and on. And he had tears in his eyes.

It's a big, huge hunter. And I told him that you're not alone, man. and you're like you're saying, why me? And it just happened. Call it a privilege, right, that you encounter this phenomena. And I know it changed your life and you're a hunter, but there may be stuff that you can't figure out. And then he's dedicated his life to chasing this thing.

And I told him you're chasing stars, man. I mean, you'll get close to it. But if you're going out there with the gun, this thing's going to skiddle, get out of there, you know. And I think somehow, and this is me now reaching, that these have, these entities have some sort of telepathic ability. Okay.

They know if you're armed. They know if you're a danger. They can sense it. Maybe they can smell the pheromones or the fear on you that, you know, you have intentions of malice. I don't know. I'm just guessing. But it's still a peculiar phenomenon. And I think since COVID, when we were all forced indoors for three months, right, stop the spread,

that these animals, all wildlife, including bears, encroached, into populated areas. And that's why you started seeing more videos. And of course, the drones, right? When you're going up and seeing a drone footage and I'm seeing this creature run, that's not a kid in the costume. If it is, come out and say that you got us, you know, you hoaxed us. Good for you, you know.

So it's such a wild phenomenon. And I can't get my arms around all the sightings. I don't know what the latest dig is in Bigfoot news, what the hot siding is. who's claiming what. I just know that there's something to it. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love. Without a subscription, write on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners.

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by the food and drug administration these products are not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease in combination with resistance exercise something that i can't understand and there are much, much better researchers out there than I am that could find answers or at least draw us closer to the truth. Boy, that was a long answer, wasn't there for one question, bro? You know, that's awesome because I'm just going to let them go and let's get it all out. There's a lot to unpack from that. So I'm curious, you know, you're talking about what is Bigfoot.

And have you come to grips with what you think the creature is or is it something where it's all sorts of different things. What do you think Bigfoot is? Both the former and the latter of what you said. So maybe I thought, well, is there to rip in time and space, right? Somehow to portal. And the inverse must be true. If this is from prehistoric times, right,

or Australopithecus or whatever, that some man in a business suit walking on Wall Street somehow transported back in time and Tranosaurus Rex is nipping at his butt as he runs with his briefcase, don't know. Is it UFO related? is it interdimensional? Is it flesh and blood or is it a combination of the three? I know that it's flesh and blood because it leaves,

it's been shot and left blood behind, hair, footprints, but how did it get there and how does it evade gunfire? I know they say that grizzly bear has never been found or whatever in the wild dead, but I'm wondering what type of creature it is. And as I said, back to my opening remark, they've never caught one. They never will. Very interesting. That is very interesting. I agree. I think it's a creature that, you know, there's so many different animals in the world that can do things that we can't really explain. What's to say there's not a creature that can do some weird stuff. Yeah, I'm on board with that.

Would you run away from humans if I was a creature? I would. Right. Yeah. Because all they do is kill and consume and lie. Exactly. I wanted to clarify. something so you said you primarily have been talking to people that have experienced bigfoot investigators things of that nature uh i just wanted to make sure so you've it hasn't really been your ammo to go out looking or to have an encounter yourself have you ever wanted to have that encounter though um part of me says no and not the ufo encounter even though i've done all the ufo hot spots because that would confirm my my suspicions uh anyway i guess it would be but

There are people that are well-equipped, better trackers than I ever could hope to be that know how to Alex is one of them and all the guys to BFRO. Somebody like me, you know, I'm a city slicker, right? What could I add to that? I could analyze the footage and listen to their story and add that into my library. Okay, I can relate that case to this case to this case. And I do like to correlate data taken from different sightings, whether they were 10 years ago, or 50 years ago and see how they fit.

I mean, the glowing eyes are consistent, right? The pungent smell is consistent. The tracks, the hair, the idea of being watched, right? The howl, wood on wood, chest dumping. I mean, all of them, it's consistent over the last 200 years. So people just can't say it was made up in 1959 by Jerry Crew and John Green exploited it. Or somebody jumped in a costume in October, 1967. Right.

Come on. They're talking from an uninformed position. It's one thing if you study it like that Michael Schumer skeptic, his act is so tired. He just summarily dismisses any Bigfoot encounter and can't even really relate one and dispute it. So it's just those people I don't have time for. You don't know what you're talking about. I will say the Bigfoot researching community, they eat each other and they fight, boy. Oh, there's a lot of malice there.

And that drove me out 1999. Do they ever? And that's such. you know, that divisiveness, you'll never solve it. And I'm going to be the one to get the secret. I'm going to be the secret. I'm going to make a million dollars. No, no, you're not.

You're not going to make a million dollars. You can do a cool show and get huge views and hits because a lot of young males like this topic because they find a curiosity, just as I did back in when I was growing up and seeing the Patterson Gimlin film. What is that? And then you go back and say, my word, there's been sightings, every state in the United States, Mo Mo and Missouri, you know, Eastern Ohio, Don saw a white

Bigfoot, and he filmed it inadvertently, rocks thrown at them, just some weird, wild stuff. And even one of the videos, I think that Alex and one of Alex's friends had taken of these glowing red eyes up in the woods, that's freaky stuff, man. It's not an owl in known areas where there's been activity. and to me that that makes sense that, yeah, you encountered it. It's staying at arm's length away from you, doesn't know you. It probably knows your intentions, whether they're good or bad, but it's just checking you out. And I've been learning that they do some sort of scouting system, right?

Or that you'd have a mail on a point here. They do quadrants. Oh, yeah. Up on the ridge, definitely, almost military like, yeah. Correct, correct. So there's so much for me to learn. There's so many people out there that know much, much. more about it. But once upon the time in the 90s, I really knew every historical encounter,

whether it was Jacko, or as I mentioned, Ape Canyon, the Minnesota Iceman, which I always thought was a fascinating story. And of course, all the Bigfoot sightings that took place in the 70s, the Sierra Sounds when they first came out. And then, again, I salute all of the researchers, including the BFRO for what they've done. I just, you'll get close, but you'll never catch them. like Henry Franzoni says in his book, it's like you start going down the road to Siakco, you may not come back. You may get a little too crazy, you know. He's a cool dude. He is a cool dude, man. Determining for Bigfoot, dude. Yeah, absolutely. I love that documentary. Yeah. I met him back in the mid-90s. You did? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Really? Six with Don Keating. I met Renee DeHinden, John Green, Peter Byrne and Grover Krantz during that time. And I met Henry. Meldrum had just gotten into the field when I met. Yeah. Oh, man. You met Meldrum when he was like brand new.

Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. And I disagree with Jeff on the Snow Walker footage. If you ever want to talk about that, I just, he did that for paranormal borderline, I think it was or encounters back in the night. 90s, 96, 80, 97. And he kept trying to get who created that footage.

You know the snow walker footage I'm talking about? It's taken in the mountains and they look down there and there's something waist high walking through the snow. It's not a dude in a costume. I mean, you get that wet and trying to get down the mountain. They were obviously thousands of feet high and somebody identified it as the Alps. But Jeff kept hounding them and finally the person said, oh, it's a hoax footage. Just show them away.

And I still, I looked at it a couple of weeks ago and I'm saying, uh-uh, I'm not ready to throw that out yet. I'm not ready to call that a hoax. Mm-mm. I mean, and then some of the old, even the Ivan Mark's footage is freaky, right? The cone head, right? Jump around this thing jumping around. What's up with that? Paul Freeman, people made fun of him.

That's big right now. That's huge. If you take a look at his footage, to me, that's some really impressive footage. And back in 95 when the first came out or even 94, I, I, I said, whoa, stop. There's something to be said about this footage. Again, in a known area with footprints. And then, of course, in the other side, you have hoaxers, right?

We talked about, I don't know if it was Biscard. There was another guy that got to Rick something. Rick Dyer. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Dyer, you know what. So that, there you go.

So hoaxers, but who's worse, the pusher or the junkie, right? The dealer or the addict, he put out. some BS there for you and you and you ate it up right oh it's got to be and i remember lauren coleman and i clashing back in the day um i read his book mirror mysterious america by the way in 1985 so i like read first edition but i remember clashing when that first came out in 2005 2006 i'm not sure maybe earlier 2004 saying oh look they found a body no no no no no time out you know uh penalty flag down review flag is down the red flag let's look at this again and play that there's so many people that have claimed to have had a body and they've come up with

nothing not even a limb think about this or finger um i know that in ohio um they found that layer right and that people were were were i was that moneymaker or who is the guy if you get the guy with there wasn't another guy from ohio but i said you know before you scoff at it this makes sense they got to sleep somewhere right well true right They're mammals. So if they have a nest, yeah, I can buy into that for sure. So, but there's a lot of guys, and I've cracked three hoaxes in my life. Eric Beckard, God rest of solar, if he's in the other place.

Yeah. I had epic clashes with him throughout the 90s. Most people did from what I hear. Oh, yeah. He got the FBI after me. I mean, I didn't get the FBI. Oh, yeah. What?

I was on probation for a year for that. Holy macro. Because what do you do is called, this is just as. I had an answer machine. He called me at three in the morning. I'm in Boston. He's in San Francisco. And I'd curse him up.

And I'm going to blank you up. I'm coming out there. And he turned it over on it. He taped it, turned it over the FBI. I kept calling the FBI. And the guy was saying, this guy's crazy. And so you got to, he says, yeah, I got to prosecute you because it's easier on my job. So I get a good lawyer.

But it was just such a joke. And like I said, when he passed, I said, I gaslit him. I said he was still alive. He hoaxed his death. And I got people buying into the. that for a couple of months that he was in England, fake and crop circles. Yeah, but he was a kook, absolute kook, and he hoaxed so many things. And then there was a guy by the name of Scott. I won't see his last name from Tennessee who in 98 said, oh, look, I found a big foot tracks along

this river, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he sent me one. And I took out my Patterson Gimlin cast. And exactly, exactly. The exact same thing? Yeah, gotcha. Oh, wow. And he went silent. And then finally in 2009 in the Bridgewater Triangle, I conducted tours in this guy named Jason. Once a ghost researcher gets involved with Bigfoot research, believe nothing, okay? Because they live in a world of embellishment, hyperbole, and exaggeration. Hold on. So you're saying if anyone, ghost researcher or like paranormal researcher, if they get involved with Bigfoot research could be a red flag.

Oh, yeah. They bring along their lady and gray, the lady in black. the lady in black, the lady in blue. They bring her on all their ghost hyperbole. Yeah, it's a huge red flag. Yeah. The good Bigfoot researchers, that's their specialty. You know, some of them will go off into the other paranormal.

Like Coleman's a cryptocirologist. He's the Jimmy Hendricks of Cryptozoology, the Chuck Berry. You know what I'm saying? I mean, he's the preeminent cryptosauology. He and Ivan Sanderson, and then after that, it's all about third and fourth place. He investigates all sorts of strange creatures, including sea-borne, ocean-borne, and river-borne, and lake-borne creatures. So, but somebody like this guy, he called me up before my tour.

It was like in August of 2009. I was going to take a bus through the Bridgewater Triangle and tell about all the ghost stories, and we can go over all the creatures. Oh, yeah. We will get there. Yeah, yeah. And then he came back and he said, where can I see Bigfoot? And I said, historically, in 1971, Elm Street and Bridgewater, that's where there was

a spade of sightings, you know. So he said he went down to Bridgewater and he comes back with this long cast and his photographs don't even match the cast. And then he went on and I said, I called bull on it. And then he went saying that I had planted the casts. I'm touring with a basketball team of that one. He's coming back on you. That's funny. And I said, I had planted them for him to find. It's just, it's just go away. And he wrote a real silly book that had the, uh, the grammar of a fifth grader. So it's just, and after that I said, I'm done. You know, I made a foray in. It was just, there's too many liars.

I'll look at the video and make my own decision. And now, of course, with CGI, you can make put Bigfoot anywhere. Well, that's a scary thing, man. And it's like there's an AI. There's stuff coming out right now. And I interviewed a guy on my show about AI. And it's like in a year or less, there is going to be stuff. And future generations won't know what to trust.

What's real. What's not. real. I mean, we've gotten ourselves into a bad situation, dude. We're there with fake news. I mean, my t-shirt says make 1984 fiction again, right? Right. We're at that point. And in AI, it's increasing exponentially. And I think that AI will assume, the robots will assume the identities of their creators. And I told my friend, the robots are coming for you and I, buddy.

But at some point, the robots will come for the humans and they'll make themselves godlike. I mean, it's to the point that we will have lost control of our thoughts and our freedom and our free will because AI is coming for us. And right now, people are using AI to write their papers to write their scripts, to write their articles. It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild stuff for sure. It's, and there's no walking. Yeah, there's no walking the tiger back into the cage. There isn't.

And it's like, Bigfoot's not the scary thing anymore. but um big foot never heard anybody except for yeah you know except you maybe one case or whatever he carried er albert osman which is a cool case right in the second bag yeah yeah yeah i mean you have that and then you have them rocking uh the camper in new hampshire walter bowers i think it was nineteen seventy seven apple books is the best place to read listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone and now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. So it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more,

all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audio books. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen. And enjoy it all on the go wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit apple.co forward slash Rees Apple Books to find out more. That's apple.com forward slash R-E-E-E-S-E-E-E-E-A-A-Pel books and read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. It always happens right before the whistle. There's a little voice that says, what if I mess up? What if I'm not ready? I see a whole highlight reel of everything

I don't want to happen. Missed shots, turnovers, letting my team down. And for a second, there's doubt. But then, I realize I've done enough to be where I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the days I wanted to quit and didn't. So I smile. Self-doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient. To put more smiles out into the world,

Colgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with a Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women. Colgate, your smile is your strength. Wellness looks different at every state. The right support makes all the difference. Elevate daily wellness with vital proteins advanced collagen plus colostrum and prebiotic fiber. This three-and-one blend supports radiant skin, gut health, and immune system wellness, designed to mix into room temperature or cold liquids. So your inner harmony works with your outer, wellness. Vital proteins. Stay vital. Visit VitalProtene's.com to get started. These statements

have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease in combination with resistance exercise. But other than that, it's a timid, harmless creature, but curious. But AI, man, oh, those machines. I would like to talk to you specifically about, I find it fascinating that you were able to have, you were able to interview so many people that in big footing that are now no longer, with us. What was it like interviewing Renee DeHinden? I always find Renee DeHenden to be such an interesting character.

Okay. So at the time, I had the Bay State Bigfoot Society, the BS, twice the BS of your average Bigfoot organization. That's awesome. And again, he's always had a curious eye like because the way he was portrayed in film and movies and I think he was misportrayed in some some circumstance. But once you got his, you laugh at him and you recognize him for what he's done. He was one of the four horsemen of Bigfoot.

Oh, yeah. He was a nice guy. And my only interaction was just basically walking in Vancouver outside of the forum, walking around for about 15 minutes interviewing him. When I spoke with the grower, Krantz, I wanted to pluck off that thing on his cheek. No, but he had the deep booming voice. Yeah, he's got a cool voice. Very articulate, very intelligent man.

Anthropologist, he was sold. And the problem with Grover at the end was he was getting too involved in fighting other people trying to bring anthropologists over to his side. Okay. Let it be. You're never going to, you know, don't waste your time, you know. Just focus on what you know. And he worked on footprints. He could identify footprints and tell you the scale of the,

creature, what Wade, how tall it was, et cetera. And he was very interested in articulate. And I saw him at the very end of his life. And then John Green, as I mentioned, I stayed in his house one night, and I'll tell you a story about that. And I got to go through his cards. That's so cool. Yeah. The newspaper articles firsthand in Harrison Hot Springs and his home. Wow. I stay with Chuck Story, Mark DeWorth, myself, and Don Keating. Mark DeWorth and I go back a long time too. Oh, okay. And yeah. And then finally, I'll go. back to Green in a second. Oh, Peter Byrne. So Peter Byrne was friends with Ray Crow and Larry Lund.

Larry Lund, to me, is one of the foremost experts on the Patterson Gimlin film. What's the frame? 352. I forget. That's the one that people always call out is 352. Yeah, you're right. Okay. Yeah. And then who was the one that did the stabilization? M.K. Davis. M.K. Davis. Okay. Not bad, dude. I still have it. You still have stuff down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he, he, and I thought. But that was, it just stabilizing. And that to me said, okay, that's not a guy in a suit. But interviewing Peter Byrne was, I interviewed him for hours and I have unreleased footage.

It's now probably 27 years old, coming up with 27 years old that's never been released. Why? I just never got around to it. Well, what is it doing, John? Is it just hanging out? I was the last person to interview Betty Hill. And I sat on that for 10 years. And then I found a mother tape, but 10 years later.

So it was the Betty Hill interview It took me 20 years to get the whole thing out But I do have that Yep, I have interviews with Ray Crow The Sasquatch Symposium You have the Sasquatch Symposium? Yes, but here's the deal, okay? I've moved three times.

I had a house fire. Oh, sure, yeah. And Alex knows that I packed these huge boxes, yep, they're in there. And I gave Alex all my periodicals because he could put them to good use all the historical stuff. It does no good sitting in my story.

storage or in my basement. But I do have these tapes downstairs somewhere with all my sporting events and all my UFO tapes, all my trips to Kexburg, Shag Harbor, Area 51, Gulf Breeze, Skunkworks, Roswell, San Luis Valley looking at cattle mutilation. I've just never, it's an archive that's never been transferred from VHS. Just on VHS, yeah. Yeah, too. Wow.

I have it. I mean, if somebody would, there's a producer that sees this one day. that you can recommend that I can send them the tapes and they can transfer it to digital and start cutting it and we can do dialogue over it. But Peter Byrne, as you know, historic, he was one of the first ones to get paid. People thought that he was exploiting it,

getting paid to search for Bigfoot. He got a grant, big deal. And he had a neat, in the 70s, a neat Jeep, like the primordial detection equipment. And listening devices, now, of course, the listening devices are very sophisticated. But then what was fascinating about Peter was his history with the abominable snowman with the Yeti and going to those expeditions and interacting, I guess, with the Pangboshae hand

and Jimmy Stewart smuggling that out. And for a time, I'm not going to mention it about it. For a time, I think I know who had the Pangbosha hand. You do? Yeah. But I'm not going to say the name. That's all right. prove it.

Probably wise. This was that, I made that action. We'll leave that there. We'll leave that there. 28, 29 years ago, maybe 30 years ago. But Peter talked about the Himalayas. And of course, was it, Tenzing Norgae, was the first to climb Everest, not Hillary. Let's get that. Okay, the Sherpa made it first, not Hillary.

But Hillary, you know, he saw footprints, okay, in his expeditions, shipped Eric Shepton, John Hunt, Lord John Hunt, the Mallory. they all saw it and they saw creatures up on the ridge heard the howling all these climbers now of course if you've seen that picture of everest where in may it's it's like a line trying to get into fenway park for a redsocks tour or something it's just you've seen that right all the trash on top it's horrible oh yeah but but just the line of people waiting and you got one guy taking too long a selfie the guy at the end of the rope trying to get up is going to die right so yeah that's But Peter Byrne had all these stories about different cases and going to the monastery and Tibet and hearing about different types of Yetis.

I forget the term for the smaller Yeti. There was like a smaller one and a large one. And he also told me about some Chinese encounters. I forget the mountain range in China, not the Himalayas, but it might be the Hamalers. And just the interaction than he had. So he was living, breathing history of the abominable snowman. in. Now, is he still alive? Do you know, Peter Byrne? Yes, he is. Mr. Byrne is still alive. He's, I want to say he's around 96 years old,

which is incredible. He's the, you know, he's the last one. Well, good guy. Of the four. Yeah, I guess you could say, because Bob Gibman is still alive as well. Yeah, very dignified, very classy. So that. And then I'm sitting with Bob Gimlin for at Don's conference, again, 12, 13 years ago for four hours. Wow. And he's always all, you know, hey, if it was a guy in the costume, could be, but show me because what I saw didn't look like a guy in the costume. But if you say so, prove it and tell me where it was.

You know, he was just matter of fact. You know, like he said some days he wished never happened to him. And then other days, he's glad that it happened. But he's not telling him a falsehood. You know, he's telling what he saw. And he's always been consistent, you know, for 55 years. That's what I hear. Yep. Yeah, exactly.

And he's a good guy, too. He's funny. That's just, that is wild. Oh, man. You've got some, some cool stories. Let me talk about the John Green, if I could tell you that story. Oh, yes. Thank you for reminding me of that. Yes, definitely talking about John Green for a bit. Probably my favorite Bigfoot story. So myself, Don Keating, Markterworth, Chuck Story, a stand at John Green's house. It's about two in the morning. We had driven out there from, I think up from, Portland, yeah. We had been staying with Ray Crow, Western Bigfoot Society. Yeah, he used to publish a newsletter, which was very cool.

Lot of knowledge. He was a folklore collector of Bigfoot and Larry Lund. So we drove up and we met John Green in Harrison Hot Springs at his house. And near his house is Harrison Lake. And in the middle of Harrison Lake, I used to know the name of the wildlife man there. But in the middle of Harrison Lake is this big island uninhabited. There's a dock where you can pull your sailboat in or motorboat in. So this guy by the name Mike, Mike McDonald, he was from Hamilton, Ontario, big brawny guy. I think he got a trial in the Canadian Football League, steel worker maybe. But he was out there reconnoitering Bigfoot, just him in the bush, his camera, batteries. And at one point, he had a tent out there. And the reason why he came to John Green's house at 2 in the morning is, he was down to half a sleeve of saltines for food.

And he wanted to bring his footage in and he'd run out of batteries and all that. But essentially, he was tracking a family. Smaller footprints of a big foot, larger ones, female. He saw three distinct sets of tracks, finding, you know, heaping piles of sausage scat, hair, the smell, something's watching, glowing eyes, the whole gambit. Okay. And I guess it's the night before he saw a rush or two nights. nights before. And he's in his tent. And it was almost a full moon. And he's lying down. And he had this feeling that someone's watching. And all of a sudden, boom. And his back was moving off the ground.

Boom. Something with heavy football was around there. And he could hear the brush breaking. Boom. Oh, wow. Boom. And he was scared. And in the ironic part is, and this is my recollection is he thought it was a bear. Here it is. He's hunting Bigfoot and he thought it was, I don't know if there's a grizzly out there, get out there, swim, or a kodiak, whatever. Either way, a big bear. And he said something he clips the moon in his tent. Wow. And it was an O-Blank moment.

And he said, he reached into his pack, pulled out his bear spray, right? Yeah. One, two, three. Unzipped the tent and sprayed it, but he maced himself. He thought the nozzle was going the wrong way. Oh, no. He's in his underwear. going down the hill and there was a sailboat that had docked for the night,

a father, a mother and a daughter or something like that. Just a small that would stay in there. And he was saying, up leaping Sasquatch. He's rolling down the hill or something to that effect in his underwear, the sleeping bag at his feet.

The guy comes out of his boat with a gun. All right, calm down, calm down. He had a couple of hot toddies. Tell you what, you can sleep on the dock next to the boat. I'll go up and get your bag up on the hill

and we'll bring it down. brings it down and Mike is lying in the dock, mind racing. And all of a sudden he hears on the edge of the water like in the and then he said it entered the water. So now he's, he, I believe he relieved himself. I might be heading to that, but he, he was terrified. And he said he never prayed until that time. And he's hearing bubbles come closer and closer. And then finally he hears this right under his head on the dock.

scratch it, right? So he says, oh my God, please, and prayer, and then the thing slowly meandered away. He said he got out of the water. He can smell it, and he heard the, and it went away. So that was kind of, he hit us with that story, and Don can back us up and Mark Ken, but hit us with that story his only night.

And we took him to Vancouver the next day to go to the Sasquatch Symposium for 1997. Oh, wow. And we turned him over to some of the researchers. Meldrum was there. Henry Danny Perez, right? Yeah, good old Daniel Perez. Tom Steenberg.

Steenberg, yeah, I'm talking to him soon. Yeah, all the old guys. And then the guy who wrote, I forget the book, this guy wrote a book, he was out there, not Meldrum, I can't remember. But all the guys were there, whoever was in Bigfoot was there, and we turned them over to them. And that was quite an experience to hear that story and still resonates with me to this day. And I believe him. The guy was tracking something out.

And then he showed pictures of scat and footprints and all that. And some of his video, he was howling into the woods, like, making calls. And the thing would answer back across the room. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wow. And I did make an audio.

I think I have an audio recording that I made recently in the last couple of years in my archive. But that story, like, it's, he's not hoaxing. Come on. He's out in an area known for activity. It's an island. And there's a family out there. Exactly. But they could easily live there and eat fish, et cetera.

So that was a really cool story. And then, of course, Eastern Ohio, do you familiar with Don Keating? Yeah, his name is still passed around in the community quite a bit, definitely. Don can be, I like him, you know, but people, he's just a facts guy, right? And he's been in for a long time. I saw an article he wrote 1979 when he was in high school about. Bigfoot in eastern Ohio. And of course, back then, there's no such thing as Bigfoot in Ohio.

It's only in the Pacific Northwest or the MLAs. So he had to fight that battle. Moreover, a white entity was being reported. Roadrunners, things crossing the road, rock throwers, wood on wood, howls, backyards, people thinking something taking a bite out of their fruit or something. And his big two videos that he made. First was he was doing an investigation, showing the, the, the land where Bigfoot had been seen.

And he left the camera running as he was walking up the road. And then when he went back to look at the footage, I think several months later, this white creature at the end of the road runs. It's like, what's that? And he kept playing it. It was weird. It's almost ghost-like, yeah.

And then there's another one, and he might have released it, where he's videotaping some hill in eastern Ohio, which is chalk full of mines, right? Abandoned mines. And there's this white creature, again, up on this hill in this cave, entrance, it looks like it's stacking rocks. And it's not a guy. And he in videotapes that.

So, but his, he was so diligent throughout the 80s. He collected all these reports throughout the 90s. He's just releasing his final documentaries now. And I recommend to anybody out there, yeah, contact him. He's always been fact, fact, fact, fact. Jody Cook was the guy, by the way, who found the lair. But John, John's a great researcher. I respect him immensely in his research. He goes back, man, to the old days, to the 70s. And that rocks, right? Oh, it does. Yeah, that connection is awesome.

And he, like anybody else, you walk away from it after a while. You get so close and you never get that close again. And then you fade away. And you go, nah. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love. Without a subscription, write on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up. for listeners. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. So it's

easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more, all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen, and enjoy it all on the go wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit apple.co forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. That's Apple.com forward slash R-E-E-E-S-E-E-E-A-A-Pel books and read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. It always happens right before the whistle. There's a little voice that says,

what if I mess up? What if I'm not ready? I see a whole highlight reel of everything I don't want to happen. Missed shots, turnovers, letting my team down. And for a second, there's doubt. But then, I realize I've done enough to be where I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the days I wanted to quit and didn't. So I smile. Self-doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient.

To put more smiles out into the world, Polgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with the Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women. Colgate, your smile is your strength. Wellness looks different at every stage. The right support makes all the difference.

Powered performance with vital proteins, advanced collagen peptides plus creatine. Designed to help build and maintain muscle mass in combination with resistance exercise. It also supports healthy hair, skin, and nails, strength and beauty in one scoop. So you turn every day into a little time for women's wellness. Proteins. Stay vital. Visit VitalProtene's.com to get started. These statements have not been evaluated by the food and drug administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, in combination with resistance exercise.

And then like me, that's what I did. And I twice ended up in my life and I came back to it. I mean, still looking at videos today, but it's something that I never got closure on it and I never got the full answer on it. And more and more people are making videos. And I look at it and I said, that's interesting. Hmm. What's the story? That's weird. Like the Minnesota in the backyard. Do you remember that one? with the dog. And I'm thinking, and I have a lot of acting experience and production experience to create that, recreate that hoax. It takes a lot of good people and a lot of people keeping their mouths shut. You know what I'm saying? It's more, why would you expend all of that production time to create a stupid hoax video? And if it was a hoax, why don't you come out and thumb your nose with everybody and say, I got you, I got you. And they don't. So that's why you're seeing more and more. And I think these creatures are understanding that if they go into the backyards, of these families, there's free food, right, in the garbage bins, apples, trees.

They know that they're not going to get shot at or they're smarter. There's deer everywhere, right? Because the only predator of the deer is hunters and Bigfoot, right? So there's a lot of wildlife for them to consume. So that's why I think they're encroaching. You're seeing more and more. And again, in historically relevant areas where Bigfoot cities have taken place, whether it's 20, 60, 100 years ago.

And that's why I said the Bigfoot, where it's being seen today, there's probably records of it being seen in the past and probably in the future, unless you put a condominium there, they'll see Bigfoot's in that area. So it's a fascinating science. And it's flesh and blood, but I think it's also from a portal. It's also somehow maybe connected to lights. Maybe it's interdimensional. I just don't know.

And I just know the thing. There's no wrong answers yet, you know. The only thing I do know, Jeremiah, is that the people that claim to have seen them that I've spoken with have. I remember getting a phone call from a guy. There's a place called October Mountain in the Berkshires. I've been October Mountain. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And this guy had advanced degrees beyond a PhD. Okay. And I think it was the only case I ever invested. No, too, the BFRO. And I'll tell the other one.

But this one here, this guy called me. he was in tears for hours, three hours talking. What did I see? Basically, the story is he's coming up on a path on his hike, right? And he sees, he comes, and he's upwind of a big, this creature that's hitting with a rock with his hand. And it was like eating something or bugs. Yeah.

And it was such that the scent of this creature was blowing towards him, but the creature was putting his nose in the air trying to smell him and then went back to work. because he was downwind and he said he observed it for a few minutes and then finally I think the cases the thing saw him and he ran off like do you remember the story Todd niche told about he was chased I think he was chased by Bigfoot or some guy he was chased by this thing and it was moved never had another encounter and I spent hours with him on the phone until I never picked up his calls again but basically he was he was moved yeah he was moved yeah he was moved to the point and again It was like I told that Hunter.

Dude, don't look at this as a curse. Look at it as if you're special. There are researchers that go out every day that would love to have had your encounter. It is, and it didn't hurt you. You know, well, I'm having nightmares. Well, that's self-induced. The creature never hurt you. You saw something you can't explain except it as some sort of ape-like creature.

And we'll see your way on to your next adventure, you know. It's just it happened to you. And then the other one that I investigated was there's an area of mass. Massachusetts, I call the T area. It's where the northeast corner of Connecticut and the northwest corner of Rhode Island meet the Massachusetts border, the T area. Yeah, I know. Douglas Forst. And there's been, I had heard talk of roadrunner activity there, anecdotal information, people that didn't want their name and they didn't want to be bothered.

They know there's something out there. They've learned to live with it. And there's a lot of people out there in rural areas. they've learned to live with it. Yeah. It is what it is. And I don't want to give my name. Don't want to tell my story.

I don't want to read Tom Dick and Harry with a camera coming out there and doing a special. I don't need that. It's going to ridicule. Me, my father, my daughters, my brothers, everybody in the area knows there's something there. It's, yeah, some of the wildlife or it's gone into gardens. But this girl, I think her name was Patty, horse rider. And she's riding out in that area. she had a farm in Thompson, Connecticut, or north of Thompson.

Yeah. And she's riding there every day and the horse box that goes nuts. She smells the rotten eggs, the sulfur, knows there's some sort of creature, sees a silhouette out of the corner of her eye, goes back home. Things happen around her house. I'm half-eaten pumpkins. Something with an opposable thumb, lifted the latch of her barn, got in, took some chickens. Really? Yep.

ripped some chicken wire maybe, left some hair samples on as it went over, back over the fence. I mean, that's the crux of the story, but there was activity there, right? And she sounded down earth. I know he's out there. I remember talking to her several times. Really cool. And it's just a matter of fact, accepted it. It's not going to harm me except that it'll leave my chickens alone.

It's out there. My horse freaks out. And I think her horse might have even died. a fear maybe maybe i'm mixing stories but that type of story and that was at 96 of hearing about that and then came the late 90s it's 1998 there was a guy Craig Heinzelman i don't know if Craig's still alive but he was a naturalist used to write a great news letter very scientific about bigfoot in the late 90s good guy lived in new hampshire really i heard of that that is very interesting yeah Yeah. So it's 1998 and I get this call from a guy named David Smith. He lives in the Keene area. Keene is in southwestern.

I grew up 20 minutes south of Keene. Oh man. Yeah, right. In Northfield, Massachusetts. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So. Yep. I used to work in Keene. I know exactly what you're talking about. So Mount Manadnach region. Very sacred. Indigenous people has the history there. And in that area, in Carrick, St. Laurent did a documentary. The long of the long of a monkey. Great guy. The film was he did it in 1970 style, which is so cool.

I worked with him. And Alex also, I went out there with Alex Petakov, looking in that area. And I collected these, these, I guess you, I called them class D's. I think, correct me if I'm on class A side. And according to BFRO is you actually see one. Yeah. The face, face. B is, is Evans' hair.

C is here, I guess. me, but this was Class D. Okay. So in other words, he's telling me of stories that he heard. So it's folklore, in my opinion, but they were cool nonetheless. And in the Marlborough area, there were people had reported some sort of, you know, something out back, a creature, a sub pond monster, serpentine anomaly in the pond. But in that area, it's had a history. And Alex and Carrack, they met some guy, I think out in Alaska who used to live there and was having Bigfoot encounter out there.

all seven big footing color here. That's why I think this stuff, that's just certain people, magnets. Yeah. So, so Carick did that on the Marlborough monkey in that story. And if you can see it, anybody out there, Carrick, St. Laurent, K-A-R-A-C, St. Laurent-S-T, period, L-A-U-R-N-T, good guy. He's actually, I think he's studying anthropology, which is good at Keene State, maybe. But he put this dock together, and I think he's one of the bright and upcoming stars of Bigger Research. Oh, no doubt.

100%. Yeah, I agree with you on that. Very articulate. And he and Alex, and they've gone out on adventures out in the woods. But he wanted to do something called the Marlborough monkey. I called this that David Smith told me the story. Essentially, a couple lived on the edge of a quarry in Marlborough. And they'd be hearing loud noises.

They assumed kids were having a keg up in the woods. And one night at sunset, the woman saw this orange-colored thing that looked like an orangutan. as it was playing hide and seek ducking down and looking over and ducking down again. And he found that intriguing and started to collect all stories that I had collected from David Smith, but others that he and Alex had collected. And then there were even more BFRO stories. So just to do about the tradition of Bigfoot, not just in southwestern New Hampshire, the Keene area, but throughout the whole state, litany.

And one of my favorite story that David Smith told me, I called it the taxi grabber. And it goes something like this. And it was in the area. I forget the time. Spofford maybe. Yeah, I know Spofford. Yeah.

I think it was. Wow. It's all my diary. So you can find them online. But the story goes like this, that he was driving a cat. He was being dispatched that night. And Betty Joe was driving a cab. She dropped off a fair and got got lost in a logging road, you know, some of the logging roads.

Uh-huh. And she got, went up to. things. So she did a three-point turn, and then she turned around, boom, right into a furry torso. Her red in tail lights and her white reverse lights lit up this hairy hairy torso. And she said, something tried to grab at a roof rack. And she drove away. And David Smith was dispatcher. And maybe he saw one of those squashes or whatever they are. But anyways, the roof rack was, I called the, the roof rack was bent back slightly. Okay. And that was kind of like the Bridgewater one, and we can dovetail into that.

But I thought all those stories emanating out of New Hampshire, and this has gone on, dude, for many, over 100 years, 120 years, New Hampshire, the Walter Bauer story. I think he saw something grubbing for roots, the camper shaker, which was in, I forget the town, I should have been prepared, where they're at a flea market and something allegedly shakes the camper back and forth. I believe I've heard about this from Alex. Yeah. Yeah, I forget the name of the town.

I should know this. But anyways, it made the papers in the 70s. So there was a for a fury of activity in 1976, 77 in that area of this flea market. But I absolutely believe that to this day, there's people that don't want to talk about it. Oh, 100%. Yeah. And I don't blame it. Why would you?

You know, like they're dealing with it, right? This is our, my grandfather hadn't talked about this. My father, the neighbor down the road did. We're dealing with it. It's harmless. It's creepy, but it's not going to hurt us. It might take our vegetables, kill a deer. Cat goes missing.

It could be a coyote, though. So it's, they've learned to deal with it. They're not going to get it out of their territory. You know, they cohabitate with whatever this thing is. Exactly. So that was the New Hampshire cases. I found them fascinating. and when I hiked up Mount Menadnock last year,

I think Alex climbed every mountain. I climb hills. I wouldn't be surprised, definitely. Yeah, and but I did that. It was kind of spiritual. I could just feel with all the Native American tribes that were there in that area. But there's, in New England, there's all sorts of cases. I mean, we can spin the bridgewater in a second,

but I think just in close in New Hampshire, there's still active cases going on, whether it's way up north. in Pittsfield. One last New Hampshire's, way up north in Pittsburgh. Snowmobiles, right? It's like one of the best snowmobiles tracks. Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh.

Yeah, because Pittsburgh's in the Berkshires. I've been to Pittsburgh. Man, you'll see more moose than people up there in Colbrook in Kangamangas Highway and all that stuff. Oh, my goodness. It's wild up there. Yeah. And I think there was, somebody who's told me a tick disease killing off the moose. Have you heard about that?

Oh, really? Oh, yeah. The population has been devastating. stated by some sort of sickness. And it makes them more dumber than they already are. But I'm, it's 1995 maybe. I'm touring with the comedy basketball team called the Harlem Rockets. They're basically junior globetrotters, seven players and me.

And we drive across the country in a van. And I have a book in my head and I also have to go to psychotherapy for that. But either way, we were in Pittsburgh, New Hampshire. You're playing way at the top of New Hampshire. Oh, yeah. And after the game, when guys talking, and somehow we got around the Bigfoot. Because I used to ask any Bigfoot stories around here. Like when I did it up in Yale, British Columbia, and people calling me aside, oh, yeah, yeah.

When we played hockey up there and on Vancouver Island, too, there was people come and tell me. Yeah. So either way, the guy says basically the story is something like this. He and his wife were out snow, snow, bill, and night drinking, lights on. he pins it and guns it on the straightaway and she's behind slower and I think he her

she doesn't follow him up so she stops so he doubles back and she said you won't believe what just happened something ran across in front of me it looked like a gorilla and my snowmobile died and he said he saw footprints he had heard from other people later

that they had seen something there So to think that in the Pittsburgh area, snowmobilers or this woman's machine went dead and she saw something traverse the road, I thought it was kind of wild. But everywhere in New England, you know, even Connecticut, as I said, Rhode Island has had some cases, although somebody came forward about 10 years ago with a Rhode Island on citing, a ghost researcher. I don't believe it. Sorry. Don't believe it. Anything ghosts or go go look for your ghosts. let the cryptosologists do their thing.

You know, just really, they get a fence-in-out. And the UFO people do their thing. But in there's Maine, of course, there's a litany of... Tons in Maine. Yeah, yeah. Vermont, the Colbrook, that Vermont has some stuff, I think, going back to 1877. Really? I haven't really looked into Vermont yet, but...

Yeah. Yeah. A book called Bigfoot on the East Coast by Eric Berry, Rare copy. one of my favorite books. He documents Bigfoot New England going back to the 19th century. Yeah. I have a question for you. Before we get in the Bridgewater triangle stuff, I'm just making a quick note to myself.

Okay. So I've always wanted to talk to someone who has so much information and experience about New England and the paranormal stuff like yourself. So I grew up in... Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club.

So it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author-cirated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audio books. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen. And enjoy it all on the go wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required.

Visit apple.co forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. That's apple.co forward slash R-E-E-E-S-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-A-POLBECS. And read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. It always happens right before the whistle. There's a little voice that says, what if I mess up? What if I'm not ready? I see a whole highlight reel of everything I don't want to happen. Miss shots, turnovers, letting my team down.

And for a second, there's doubt. But then, I realize I've done enough to be where I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the days I wanted to quit and didn't. So, I smile. Self-doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient. To put more smiles out into the world, Colgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with the Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women.

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Visit VitalProtene's.com to get started. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease in combination with resistance exercise. Franklin County in Massachusetts, but I wasn't into the weird stuff back then. Well, as a young kid, yes, I was. I would watch stuff with my dad, but then I wasn't old enough I could do anything, if you get what I mean. So I have three places in Massachusetts that are very important to me. And I am curious if there's anything weird that you investigated there.

You can say no to all three and we'll move on. That's fine, but this is just for me. So first one is Northfield or Franklin County in Massachusetts. There's a history of Bigfoot sightings there. I can't. Really? Is October Mountain in that county? That would be, October Mountain is going to be more in the Berkshires.

Okay. It's going to be more for out west. So no, and the Hoosack Tunnel is way up in the northwest corner. What do you know about the Hoosick Tunnel? Because my father used to bring me there all the time because I had a relative who was involved with building it. And my dad's grandfather was the caretaker of a big dam up there. So it's very, you know, what do you know about the Huzek Tunnel? Yeah.

So we did a segment on my TV show called The Folklore. Okay. I want all that hardware there. Where to get me, right? Yeah, my wife wants me to put it into the attic because it's an IKEA show seven years and it'll fall apart and kill the cats. But for self-esteem, I'll look back. And you're okay, I guess. He did well.

Anyways, you can look on YouTube under the Folklorist, F-O-L-K-L-R-I-T. And we did a segment on the Husack Tunnel. Essentially, it took decades to build. Right. It took dozens of lives. Those explosions within there, a man was accused of killing somebody else within the tunnel. Oh, wow. And it has a litany of ghost sightings or phantom trains, phantom track walkers, right, with a lantern.

And they said, I remember my crew going up there. And it was kind of spooky and an echo, a wind comes through and it sounds like somebody's speaking with you. So it's crazy, dude. Yeah. Yeah. And there's, there's corpses there. And I believe in ghosts.

I just don't believe in ghost researchers. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. I believe in ghosts. I don't believe in ghost researchers. Ah, just like I'm worried in UFOs and I don't believe in UFO researchers. I guess I say that for Bigfoot too, but no, they're all right.

They're more down to earth. And they don't snob your nose. They're willing to engage in conversation. Youophologists or I know everything. don't even make eye contact with me. And then ghost researchers, like I said, it's just exaggeration. But there are stories, and my crew heard that in a history. It's one of the most haunted tunnels.

It was an important tunnel to break through to western New England. And, yeah, there's a lot of ghost tales there. But other than that, I just remember Franklin County, there are some history of Bigfoot sightings there. What's the next one? Great Barrington in the Berkshires. I don't know if you're familiar with that town. Okay. Yeah.

It's funny because I'm a historian. Okay. At heart. No, I'm considered in leaving authority in New England history, but I've forgotten so much of it. You forgot more than most people will know, probably. Yeah, but Great Barrington was the site of a fight of Shea's Repelion. Oh, sure. And right there is the Appalachian Trail.

Yeah, a lot of history there. Yeah. And I went to the final site, battle side, I think, where Shea's, Revelling was. And I went a mile or two up on the Appalachian Trail just to say that I did it. And at that time, I think there was a murderer somewhere in the area. So I kind of looked, all right, I wasn't packing. But that area historically, and it's in the lower south, western corner of Massachusetts, right? A bordering New York, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I haven't heard of any Bigfoot stories. I mean, there's something in the back of my mind, Jeremiah, that there was an encounter there.

But I know it's historically significant, and there's a lot of history in the town. As for paranormal phenomenon, maybe a UFO signing once upon a time. Yeah, and I think it was even called out in the newer version of Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix. I think there was an episode to do with that with UFO stuff. Was it like just lights along the tension wires or something? No, it was, I think it was a bunch of abductees. Yeah. Which I believe in.

Yeah. Lastly, opposite end of the state, North Shore, Rally area. I don't know if you've ever been to Raleigh. I have. I've driven through it, not to it. Right. But again, in the back of my mind, something tells me there's a BFRO case of a Bigfoot siding there.

That's crazy. Yeah. And then there's Dogtown up in that area of these monoliths and, you know, ancient. And I believe we have tainted so many indigenous grave sites that are 500, a thousand, two thousand years old. It's terrible. Yeah. Totally disregard that. And with that comes a price, a paranormal price.

Exactly. A curse, a haunting. And that's where we move into the Bridgewater Triangle. I guess the Bridgewater Triangle, it begins with King Phillips War. On June 28th, 1675, John Sassmon, or this is the, before. that John Sassamon, who was a praying Indian, you know, we had to make you into Christians or were going to have to kill you. Exactly.

And he was, I think it was from Natick or whatever. What we did to the Native American is disgusting. It's genocide. It's democide. I just want to talk to the listener real quick. Listeners, if you're not familiar with New England history, it gets rough. And you need to look into your New England history because we did a lot of. a rough and not cool things to Native Americans.

But go ahead, continue. I just want to put that in there really. Sure. Sure. Well, let me just back up and give you the history. So the pilgrims come here in November of 1620, throw anchor in Provincetown Harbor. There's First Encounter Beach where they see Native Americans, six of them with a dog, 300 yards down the beach on the Cape. And I'm thinking for that timeless moment that the Indian.

must have said, oh, blank, here it comes. Oh, here's a name. Yep. Yeah. And so then quickly, a boat started laying, by the way, to Squantum, Squanto, saved the pilgrims because they should have starved to death, but he's on a plant. I mean, they came with no tools, talking about ill-prepared. Oh, yeah.

And no fished equipment. And they nearly starved, then disease, killed half the colony in that first winter. So they survive. Then there's a settlement, the second settlement, illegal settlement, called Wesse Gusset in Weymouth. And essentially, Miles Standers, Captain Shrimp, he was called, goes on an expedition because these people in Wesigusset, they were stealing from the natives.

So the natives were getting upset. I think Corbettan, maybe I got to remember. But there are two native sachems or Sagamores, Deputy Chiefs, very tough, widow Womit, maybe. Anyways, Miles Danish lures them into a cabin with the scent of bacon because pork, the only indigenous animal that was here was the llama and the turkey. We brought over, the Europeans brought over chickens, swine, cattle, goats, sheep, and missing one. Horses, horses. Anyway, so the Native Americans had never smelled bacon before they go nuts over it.

Wow. I didn't know that. That's awesome. Oh, yeah. And Stanich cooks up the bake and invites him in for a meal, and he cuts their heads off and kills two of them. Well, in my investigations, they cut the heads off. There was a house up on the hill in Waymouth, and she was having ghost encounters. I never told this to ghost researchers.

And I'm thinking that's where the murder happened. And they buried their bodies in this park that was just found, like, I think, in the 1930s when they built this park. But there's a curse there. It's just a, my friend has a member of the Yacht Club down there. He says there's something not right in the area. So anyways, move forward. So each time white man's taking more and more land from the Wampanoag Federation, Massassoiat, the great chieftain.

And Massassoiat, the chieftain of the Wampanoi, he aligned with the white man, the colonists, because his enemies were the narragansett. And just backing up, when the pilgrims came, there were white bones everywhere. Plymouth, they settled in Patuxet. They had been wiped out by the Great Dying. And the Great Dying was brought by European. diseases. Europeans had lived with animals for thousands of years. The Narragansansans saw this and they actually socially distanced 400 years ago to get away. Yeah. So Massasoit

lost all his Indian braves. So he signed with the colonists with these fire sticks. Anyways, it was a lasting peace. Edward Winslow from Plymouth and Massachusetts. Soi, were friends, best friends, best of friends. And Winslow was credited with saving Massachusetts Watt's life. Massachusetts, Dyes. Edward Winslow's died, dies. Edward Winslow's son, Josiah, and then he's now in charge of Massachusetts colony. Massachusetts Roy's sons are King Alexander and King Philip. Those are the English names given to him. Anyways, you have to surrender all your weapons to the colonists, sign all these peace treaties, sign away your land.

They kept taking and taken the colonists did from the Native Americans. Well, eventually, Josiah Winslow invites King Alexander to his house of Marshfield and poisons them, or at least that's my theory. because Alexander dies on what is now modern-day Route 3A, dies in a walk back to his village. So it leaves Philip in charge. King Philip, give us your weapons, surrender, give us your land. So the war breaks out. John Sassimon, why he started the story with,

he's a praying Indian. He's found dead in a frozen pond. They make up a story that three Native Americans killed them because his neck was broken, and it starts a war. And King Phillips says, we're going to fight them. Are they going to take everything? So he bans up the local tribes there and explodes in the early summer of 1675. Per capita, the most horrific war ever fought in terms of losses on the colonists side and the Native Americans,

a bloody battle, cutting heads off, scalping, putting them on pikes. And then the natives were using hay, fire wagons as a siege weapon, right? They'd roll them into houses. But they devastated dozens of towns from Massachusetts. in Connecticut. So it finally ends in 1676 after a year of fighting. And the colonists took everything. In prison, the natives sent them to islands to die and starve in Boston Harbor, treated

them literally like animals. And in that region where some of the battles were fought in a place called Damascus, which is modern-day Taunton, Massachusetts, there's a swamp there's a swamp that's called the Honkabank Swamp. It's called the Beating Heart of. of what would become the Bridgewater Triangle. When you stop there, Lauren Coleman, in the 70s before he wrote Mysterious America, which to me is the seminal book of Cryptozoology.

If you haven't read it, you're not a cryptosoologist. But he basically interviewing, he called it the Bridgewater Triangle. It's Apex in Abington Mass. It's lower southwestern quadrant in Seaconk. And in the right is towards Freetown. free down state forest right and within that a land of curses curses uh and in the 60 70s 70s and 80s weird encounters even arguably up until the 90s so but within the hockamock swamp was a native american burial ground and and there was another lake called lake nippinickett again all these native american

names and that they desecrated native american burial grounds sometimes intentionally sometimes unintentionally but if you dig up a graveyard and you just chucked the bone and around. I mean, it's, you're dealing with a higher authority, man. It's in my opinion. Yeah, not a good idea to do that. No, no. There are curses and respect the dead. So that and the curse was made, I think with the place where evil spirits dwells, what Hockamak means or something to that effect. And that's the beating heart. It's a couple thousand acres within the Bridgewater triangle. And in that, you have thick briars, swamps, thorns, mosquitoes with, three different AAA diseases, ticks with Lyme disease, large snakes, fish or cats,

you know, they say, you know, sparrows the size of spitfires, but just a lot of uninhabited wilderness that you can't penetrate. And there's a lot of animals that exist there, spiders, watermachshund snakes. They said that there's huge snakes, the size of stove pipes there. Wow. Within, yeah, but within that area, like in Abington in 1976, a huge black dog was seen by the residence of Abington. Philip Kane, and now this story's been challenged, but the story, original story is Philip Kane, I believe a firefighter, had two ponies and apparently came out in the backyard and saw this huge black dog with glowing red eyes, ripping the throat out of his ponies. Now, that's been disputed, saying that it was exaggerated and embellished or whatever. that more or less set off the black dog encounter.

Now, black dogs traditionally have been a portent of evil, a portent of evil in Victorian literature, the hound of the Baskervilles, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes, for instance. So the whole town of Abington is in an uproar, and I think it ends with a police officer, forget his name. Residents are hysterical for months, and it's in newspapers. We were seeing this black dog. It was in our backyard, this and that. And, of course, you can have hysteria.

There was an air raid, Pearl Harbor air raid the day after Pearl Harbor in Boston. People don't know about it in New York. Okay. So people hysteria. And then after 9-11, people thought. Exactly. So I think it ends with an Navington police officer cornering this thing on the railroad tracks and firing several rounds, point-blank range.

And the story says, according to Lauren, is the thing looked over its shoulder. and ambled off into folklore, into history, never to be seen again. So that's the top of the Bridgewater Triangle. Down to the southeastern side of the triangle, there's a place called the Freetown State Forest. And within there have been murders, satanic offerings and rituals, strange carvings, Dighton Rock, which they think is maybe the Cortay-D-Rail brothers in that area. Again, atrocities committed in the King Phillips War of 1675, 1675, 1670. And there's also a place called Copacut Road where apparently there's a phantom trucker.

And Alex went down that road. It's kind of a creepy road. And my theory is the Copacut Road is that they say that a truck will come up behind. You have headlights blaring, banging the horn. And then you pull off the side and it's gone. And my theory is it's an Uber eats driver. I try to get his delivered. But so anyway.

Yeah. And then there's also a place called. Sonnet Ledge where, unfortunately, kids have drowned. What could be the suicide, jumping off a ledge into a quarry. Stolen car has gone there. A lady in white has been seen on the ledge. And this is where the legend of Pukwajis begins. Oh, yeah, I was going to ask you about that, yeah.

I'm not a Pukwaji guy. Sorry. I was just curious, you know, if you were, you're not. It's fine. In fact, I saw something recently written by Christopher Balzano, who brought that to the world's attention in one of his books, several books. He's a very good writer in the early part of the century, 2005, maybe 2004. And he's kind of walking it back like he's never been ridiculed and people bombarding

them and attacking him. And he wishes he never mentioned puckwatchies. But they're supposedly small-looking trolls that look like Native Americans with a spear. And they come out. And the guy who said, who was in the Bridgewater Triangle film that I narrated, produced. by Aaron Cadju, Bill, something, who had said that he had seen something coming to the half-light. Have you heard of the story?

I don't think I've heard this one, no. So basically he's walking his dog in his area in Bridgewater, Mass, and in the half-light of two streetlights, right? Comes in a creature, and it's saying weird language, like, come with me. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love. Without a subscription, right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting head.

up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. So it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more, all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audio books. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen, and enjoy it all on the go wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit apple.co forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. That's Apple.co forward slash R-E-E-E-S-E-E-S-E-E Apple Books and read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books.

It always happens right before the whistle. There's a little voice that says, what if I mess up? What if I'm not ready? I see a whole highlight reel of every everything I don't want to happen. Missed shots, turnovers, letting my team down. And for a second, there's doubt. But then, I realize I've done enough to be where I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the days I wanted to quit and didn't. So I smile.

Self-doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient. To put more smiles out into the world, Holgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with the Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women. Colgate, your smile is your strength. Your first sip should do more than simply start today. Choose Vital Proteins Marine collagen peptides, source from Wildcaught Cod.

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Come on, eat you. We want you. Come with us, and he said, I'm not going with you. And then the thing moves the way you never start again. I do question that story. That's just me. Skeptical. There's something that just doesn't jive with me for that.

But I'm not bought into the Pukwaji story. That's just who I am. I know that the guys have done a lot of research. I think. And then at one point in the Bridgewater Triangle, Jeremiah, there were paranormal groups with snappy acrony acronyms, you know, like taps. And I used to have. Right. Yeah, totally.

Yeah. I used to have the Fordian anomaly research team, F-A-R-T. And like any paranormal organization, it just wafted off into the wind. It went away. But I believe that some paranormal groups were actually hearing each other because it was all the rage during ghost hunting in the mid-teachery. Exactly. Yeah. And they were in there and I don't recommend anybody going there.

You could twist your ankle and there's quicksand, thick suction mud too and just it's not a good place. You're saying for safety alone. Oh, yeah. Don't go in there. No. Not being prepared or knowing what you're doing. Correct.

It's like somebody walking up my watch and went in sneakers. Oh, geez. Can you imagine? Yeah, exactly. There are some season. Bigfoot researchers that know how to deal with the train. That's good for them. They're prepared.

They know what to do. So in that area, the Assonant Ledge, there's Profile Rock. There's also off of Route 44 at the Rhode Island, Massachusetts line. At the Seaconk line, there's a sign. And legend has it that there's a red-headed hitchhiker. He wears flannel, red beard, red hat. And that legend has it that he'll show up in your car. He's hitchhiking or your radio will go static and you'll hear this cackling laughter.

He'd catch him out of the corner of his eye. So I went down there about 17 years ago. You're supposed to honk the horn three times, flash the headlights three times, and he shows up in your passenger side. So I did that. Hocked my horn three times, flashed my lights three times, and I got pulled over by the cops. Yeah. But that's the redheaded hitchhiker of Roof 44. And then, so that's that quadrant.

and then Seacomk is the southwestern quadrant. And then I lived in eastern Massachusetts. I went to Bridgewater State University, so I lived in that area for quite some time. And it was depressing. It's just something weird about that area. It's just depressing. And I remember living in Eastern at the time,

and I was looking, observing, looking for mercury as the sun was setting in Venus. I like astronomy. And there's deer out in the field, nice. And all of a sudden, this magnificent, tawny colored catamount, a cougar comes out. Oh, yeah. And I could just tell him, I'm looking at my toes. Wow, it's a cougar. I don't know my video, but it's a cougar.

And then all of a sudden, the deer scatter and he chases after it and goes away. But there was a cougar encounter there in 1993, and legend has it that the wild life official just scuffed out the footprint. And Alex and I did the movie. I narrated Alex's movie, Lions of the East, put a plug in for that, Lions of the East. Yeah, if people haven't watched that, you got to check it out. It's good stuff. Yeah, and I believe this is definitely, and Alex Dyer on the same page, definitely there are cougars. A hundred percent.

And for some, there's no cougar east of the Mississippi. The last one died in 1889 and stuffed in Brattleboro, Vermont or something. Everyone who's lived in New England knows there's mountain lions or catamounts. Like, that's a no-banger. The Cape Cod, the Trojan, the Red, the Pamaat Puma, a Chiquet Cougar. So there's definitely a litany. And I mean, the Vermont Catamounts University of Vermont. I mean, come on.

Oh, yeah. So a lot of people have seen them. And I think a baby was even attacked by one. So that's Cougar. And then just around the corner from where I was living was what happened is in 1971, Thomas Downey, the late Thomas Downey, was a police officer. And he was, I was getting this wrong. He's passing through Easton. I believe he's working in.

Either way, he's passing to this place called Bird Hill in Easton. And at the end of his shift, after midnight, this huge teradactal-like bird lands in front of him, long beak, be glowing green or red eyes, 10 to 12-foot wingspan in front of him. And he has this timeless moment in a stare-down. And then the thing flaps off and flies away. He tells his colleagues, they call him the bird man. I talked to him on the phone for probably 45 seconds before he hung up on me many, many years ago. But his daughter, I said that, niece rather said that he stayed with the story until the end of his life.

So in 1998, an elderly couple claims that they saw two pterodactyls fighting each other over the Hockamock Swamp. So there's a litany of anecdotal stories, incidental stories of. So gigantic birds. And again, we are in the age of predatoryal birds, scavengers, right? Seagulls are huge. Crows are huge because there's so much landfill and garbage for them to pick out. They should get bigger and bigger and bigger and they have no predator. So that was that, the bird man.

And then what's the other one? Okay, well, get to the big foot, but I just want to tell one more story. In Dover, Massachusetts, April 21st, 1977. And again, we did segment on the folklorist on this, along with Abe Canyon. Three kids are out partying. It's April vacation. They're driving down a road, farm street maybe, in Dover. And they're smoking, weed, drinking beers, they're teenagers.

And the guy driving the car sees this spinly, peach-colored, bulbous head with spindly arms and digits. Your prototypical alien clinging to a tree or a stone wall. Hey, you guys, you see that? What? They turn around. They go back. It's gone. A few hours later, this kid named John comes walking through again with streetlights. And he comes, there's something coming. He thinks it's his friend, Martin, I should have the details for this. But he thinks there's his friend who has kind of like a tilted head. Like I had a friend in high school. He was always like this. So we call him five past. That was his nickname five past. But anyway, so they see each other. They make eye contacts. The alien. Alien runs across the road. through a gully, goes into the woods, and Baxter, John Baxter's name, chases after him, and he draws a picture. If you Google Dover Demon, you'll see the pictures. Oh, it's a classic photo.

Oh, yeah. And it's anomalous, and this is Lauren Coleman's really first foray into the Bridgewater triangle. It was Walter Webb, a famous UFO researcher, got involved with that. But it was never explained. There were no lights associated with it. And then a woman by the name of Abby, a girl by the name of Abby Brown, 15, and Will Tainter, 18, today that's illegal, by the way. They're driving home after a date and they see over this

little culvert or this bridge, they see a creature and it had green eyes as opposed to red eyes. So there were three different encounters. The kids, you know, never changed their story. They stayed at it. That's what we saw. And it was tabbed the Dover demon. And then, and so finally, here's what I'm getting to is the Bridgewater Triangle, the Bigfoot stories. It begins in just, I went to Bridgewater State University before. It was Bridgewater State College when I went. And before that, I was known as the Teachers College. So there was a female dormitory.

Forget the name of it. We know all females. In early December, maybe December 5th, 1969, where this kicks off, where girls said there was a prowler out in the woods looking up into the dormitory. But it was an ape. It was a gorilla. Wow. Please come and check it out. I don't think they find footprints.

So you go through the winter, into the spring, it's April, and now there's a history, not only in Bridgewater proper, but West Bridgewater and East Bridgewater. I found footprints, something bit my pumpkin or my gorge or, you know, knocked down my fence. So the police say, okay, enough enough, they put on a patrol, and this guy's sitting doing solo watch in his cruiser, one of those Adam 12 cruisers you probably don't even know the Adam 12 12 was, do you? Okay. And he's got this old, you know, they had the, you know, they had the,

the turning blue light on top. Oh, yeah. Classic. Yeah, and he had the spotlight. So the story is that people had seen some creature running around. And he's sitting probably in watch, you know, just sitting back, right, on watch. And something begins to shake his bumper. And just like that taxi grabber story, he puts the brake on and he sees a furry torso.

So somehow the thing lifts up the bumper. I don't think he lifted off the ground, but just shook the car. right phone and he turns the spotlight on to catch what he called a bipedal bear yogi you know running around there and that was a story and that essentially caps off or that's the height of the bigfoot hysteria of 1969 through 1970 and 71 and then in 1998 john baker is laying trap lines from muskrats Yum. But he's in the town river or the Hock River. And I kayak that.

And let me tell you, man, that was weird. And my GPS went out. My compass was... Have her weird stuff happening to you when you were kayaking? And when I went in the town river, I put in your golf course and I pushed through the reeds and pushed through the reeds and pulled. And I lost a sneaker because you go in the suction mud. And by the time I did an hour, I came back, the reeds closed together, and I couldn't figure out where I was.

Whoa, man. So I said a prayer, and I didn't have the right. So I had to guess where I went in. And finally, I found my way in. Mosquito bites, you know, razor cuts from the reeds, and it was like dark out. So it was kind of freaky. But that's the river John Baker was on, I want to say, in late winter, 1998. And he was laying, trying to catch muskrats.

going out of wrong but he said that similar to the story i told earlier this evening um about mike macdonald on the dock at harrison lake oh sure he he feels he's being watched and he can hear and he hears football of broken ice then broken ice and he says this creature whatever it was he could smell it barely make out a silhouette but something was pacing him and again it was the only encounter he swore that he had seen that so i tried to read trace his steps and i had been in the kayak where no, I don't think anybody's ever been in the kayak or not since him, just because there's nowhere to put in. But that was a freak experience. And I took all the video of the area. And that basically caps off the Bigfoot stories in Bridgewater Triangle. Now, I've argued that the

Bridgewater Triangle is dormant. Okay. There's too many people going in there, whatever these creatures are, they've retreated to the interior of the swamp where you'll never get to them. there's tension wires there and I'll tell you don't go in the fall because there's this path with high tension wires and a lot of paranormal activity stays within the tension wires but if you go in I remember walking in

several years ago I look up on the tree and there's guys hunches sitting in the tree there there's like oh my God I'm getting out of here Hunter's up in the tree yeah I don't know yeah yeah enough of the bridgewater trying to come back up but it's a

It's a story now where people, it's overblown. I think there's even a crappy TV series on about it. But it was Lauren Coleman who brought that to the public's attention. I've recorded a CD, as I said, I narrated a documentary that's on YouTube about it. I did a tour there. I've done many, many species about it. And I just think, and there's even a Lake Nipidnicket. That's another one you put in.

That's a weird, like, too, you go out. And I got lost in that. Somehow my GPS didn't work. Because I like to track my roots. I have this geotracker, but it went weird. And I had like a spiral. And that was weird. And I finally got back.

It's like east is west. West is east. But allegedly a phantom fire has been seen there, Phantom Campfire. Oh, wow. People have reported a serpentine anomaly. And then there's finally, I'll tell you this last story. Annawan Rock. And this ties into the King Phillips War.

Anawan, who took over from King Philip, who was captured and beheaded, is cornered at this rock off Route 44 called Anawan Rock. People have reported hearing Native American tongue there, smelling smoke and hearing a hoot-and-hoot. One guy said an arrow went whizzing by. I said, whoever, there's so much exaggeration going on there. But it's a sacred Native American site. This is where they captured Anon. And there's a lot. So just with that, the old graveyard, oh, there's a haunted schoolhouse, hornbine school,

where allegedly this one room schoolhouse where somebody looked in the window one day and they saw this teacher, a ghost of a teacher, and children wearing 18th century garb. If you go there now, the residents would call the cops on you and everything. But there's just so much there. And it's all in Lauren Coleman's book. And you can find it online. Christopher Balzano is a good author. and Chris Pittman, have you heard of him?

His investigations, he's the godfather of the Hockamark Swam. And then Aaron's film. That will teach you about the Bridgewater Triagull. I think you're going to put some of these in the show notes for sure. Yeah. Dude, I think I'm up over 100 pitches. I mean, that's what I got. I think if you want to ask me anything else, we haven't talked on other paranormal phenomena.

But I've been lucky and blessed and I'm curious. and I'm willing to believe everything and then discount it. I've become less of a skeptic. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love. Without a subscription, write on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads-up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and e-book home for Reese's Book Club. So it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author-c curated collections,

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And for a second, there's doubt. But then, I realize I've done enough to be where I'm, I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the days I wanted to quit and didn't. So, I smile. Self-doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient. To put more smiles out into the world, Colgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with the Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women. Colgate, your smile is your strength. Your first sip should do more than simply start the day.

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And I like to say, if you believe, I probably don't. If you don't believe, I probably do. I have one more story to ask for you because I'm curious. I found it in your resume. And I was like, I'm really curious about that. And we'll end with that. So we will get one UFO thing in here. The question in your resume was you had some prompts, which was really interesting.

Have you been to Area 51? I'm curious what the answer to that is. Okay. Let me back up. First of all, my father passed away age 93 this September. No, that's okay. No, he squeezed it toward the ride. He visited all seven continents.

Oh, wow. He worked with the Defense Intelligence Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, NASA. He was an electrical engineer, aeronautical engineer, worked with a naked. in the Air Force. And he used to go out, and he worked with NATO. He used to go out to Colorado Springs, right? And he was caught in two button-ups. In Colorado Springs, the Strategic Air Command, the Command bunker, which is supposedly

nuclear proof. And unfortunately, we may be finding that up very shortly. Anyways, but button-up is when there's a simulated attack. There's a couple of instances where we thought we were being in town. He was locked in the mountain. But he used to go out to Las Vegas. And in red hot. he'd go out to Las Vegas.

Of course, he's talking about Nellis, right? Test complex. And he'd be there for Red Hat games. I'll spill some secrets now. So, okay, to what they'd cap. Is this going to get us taken out, John? Dude, they can, honestly.

He was Talon Keyhole, okay? All that Google satellite imagery, he was doing that back in the eight, 70s and 80s, and he told me one day it would be released in public. And then he told me their satellites were so good that I could walk outside with you and say, John, you're wearing a cap today and you got a green t-shirt on it and you're wearing blue shoes.

Wow. That's how good the detail was. But now we know with Google satellite. So you can only imagine what the recchi birds, the reconnaissance satellites have there now, right? And there's geostationary and geosynchronous. I forget which one of it is. But the story was he was at Area 51. Okay.

Area 51 proper, not S4, what Bob Lazar. Yeah, the buyer of Babazar area. I still, I believe Bob Lazar is not in this proof. I do, too. I believe them. Yep. Yeah. I have in George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell. Jeremy Corbell.

Yeah, he's done some great stuff. Yeah. So he, my father told me that they figured out that the Soviet Reckybirds would come over. This is the 80s. And this is when they were developing the F-117 and the B-1, right? So he was involved with that. and the drone work tacit blue i think was anyways they'd come over at a certain time so they pulled the hardware into the hangers wait for the recie bird okay go over pull it back out and play so he would

never tell i know he was there i mean he admitted in his deathbed was dying it was there but he would never admit to what was there i just this is in the 80s and in the 90s it exploded Bob Lazar in 1989, but what is come out of Area 51? Here we are at 2003. I know. From drones. So the theory is they moved all the space hardware to Hill Air Force Base Dougway Proving Grounds in Utah.

And I went out there and that's another story. But so he was there. He was there. And when I was there with three of my colleagues, we drove in at the time in 1994, we went to White Sides and Freedom Bridge. which at that time was not in Area 51, but now it is claimed by the government. So I can say that I was in Area 51.

Do you follow? I was an area that was later seized. But our story is you don't harass Camo do's. And when I see Camo Dudes getting up on the grill of people, you deserve what happens to you. So we went up to the line and we had beers at the little alien, okay? Yeah, right. And you have to do what you got to do if you have a few beers, right?

So we're going there buzzed, stupid. Oh, my goodness. We get to that we'd gone the night before to Freedom Ridge and White Sides of Dawn. I had a Polaroid disposal of camera. I couldn't get anything. You know, it's stupid. But this is the next I saw. My friend Larry gets out and he urinates on the deadly force sign.

No way. So we get chased out by the Camadoos. The guy driving was a former MP. And as we get out, a mailbox road was called. He breaks an axle and we're scraping, but the Camel dudes gave up to get GTF all right. And we had to go back because we broke an axle back to Las Vegas. It took like four hours going 15 miles an hour. And that's my Area 51 story.

And then I made a video and I put U2's 1993 song, End of the World, this is a soundtrack to it. But that was my only time in those videos that have been shown there. You've seen some of them that came out in the 90s of the ducking craft. There was something there. And if in UFO crashes, as I said, either there's no UFO crashes or there's a multiple. I thought that UFOs couldn't crash. But if they crashed, right, that debris is recovered, the craft is recovered. If there are entities in it, they're cadavers.

And if they're cadavers, they videotaped the autopsy. if there are live ones that live, that they would take them captive, and where would they take the hardware? If you look at Roswell, it went to right path, right field at that time in, in, in, Akronah, yeah. No, it's Dayton, Dayton, oh, and that whole Roswell tale, I believe in the debris field. I think I found the debris field in 1995 when I went there were a couple of archaeologists. Really? Yeah, and I had material for the longest time that I had. I had scoop and brought home and I lost it in the fire.

Maybe it's buried in one of my boxes. I don't want anything to do with it. Was it weather balloon material? See, that's the whole thing. The whole story, except for the chrome, it speaks to a weather balloon. It does. Right. But the debris was real.

And Matt Brasel's story was real. The thing that the impact of a craft is the side of the cliffs, I think is BS. I don't think it happened. And I don't think there's cadavers and all the people that backdated, them into the stories in the 90s that proved out to be be liars. I don't want to go down in a litany. Even Glenn Dennis, the mortician, his story has so many holes. Right. You know, drawing with the nurse and everything. So there's just everybody wanted their two minutes on TV. But there are so many liars that came out of that. James, he said he was in the back of his pickup truck, and he saw it

crash and Boy Scout Mountain. And he had two dueling UFO museums in Roswell. One laid claims at this area. One bought the land this area. And they were both conducting $25 tours. You know what I'm saying? So I walked away from Rosswell and quit it. And it's just closing in Area 51. So I guess I have been in Area 51. That's awesome. And I just wonder what's going on out there if there is anything going on out there right now. Because there is an active base. There's no denying it. But what goes on out there aside from drone testing because everybody loves drones now, right? That's the thing. Even the Bigfoot community loves their drones.

John, this is, man, what an amazing conversation. I mean, Bigfoot to Area 51. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been fantastic. Thanks for putting up with me because I was a betpa, be, pep, babe, babe, babe, pay, pay, hey, that's what I like. Is that, you know, sometimes, well, I like to ask my guess, is there anything that you want to plug or like,

or you just kind of hanging out? out and if people know where you are, you know, that? Yeah. It's kind of like, don't text me, don't call me, don't email me. Right, right. They're better researchers. And if you have a case and every once a while, somebody tries to, I saw this, this, this, yeah, right, go go talk to somebody else.

There are many, many researchers you can reach out to. Don't reach out to me. Sure. But if there's any other podcasters out there, I can BIP for you guys too. But thank you so much, Jeremiah. It's been a slice. I really appreciate it. Awesome.

Thank you so much. for coming on. Okay, great. Thank you for listening to Bigfoot Society. If you like the show, please review and rate it five stars on iTunes. Hit the share button and send this episode to all your friends on social media. Subscribe to Bigfoot Society wherever you listen to podcast. It doesn't cost a thing. Pick up a Bigfoot Society shirt or enamel pen over on our Etsy page and people will tell you all about their Bigfoot sightings when you wear it. At least, that's what people tell us. That's what happens. If you'd like to become an official member of Bigfoot Society with a membership card, a community of like-minded individuals, and extra content each month,

then please consider becoming a supporter of the podcast by going to www.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. Thanks for listening. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love. Without a subscription, right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads-up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and e-book home for Reese's Book Club. So it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author-created collections and more, all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks.

You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen. And enjoy it all on the go wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple.co forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. That's Apple.com forward slash R-E-E-E-S-E-E-E-A-A-Po books and read or listen to Reese's current pick

and browse past selections today on Apple Books. It always happens right before the whistle. There's a little voice that says, what if I mess up? What if I'm not ready? I see a whole highlight reel of everything I don't want to happen. Miss shots, turnovers, letting my team down, and for a second, there's doubt.

But then, I realize I've done enough to be where I'm at. The early mornings, the extra reps, the days I wanted to quit and didn't. So, I smile. Self-doubt is natural, but my smile is a reminder that I'm resilient. To put more smiles out into the world, Colgate has supported female athletes for over 50 years with the Colgate Women's Games. The Colgate Women's Games is the nation's longest running indoor track and field series for girls and women. Colgate, your smile is your strength.

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These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. In combination with... Your social media feed delivers plenty of advice. But it doesn't know you. It doesn't ask questions. It doesn't give physical exams or order tests. Doctors do. At the American Medical Association, we believe the best care starts with a real conversation with someone who understands the science and your unique health. So stay curious. Ask questions. When it's time to make decisions, make them with a doctor. Learn more at AMAHealth versushype.org. That's AMAHealthVShype.org. This is Daniel Fischel.

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