Bigfoot Society - Does Bigfoot Use Tools?

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

Join host Jeremiah Byron with Bigfoot Society as we dive deep into the extensive and captivating experiences of Ray Harwood, editor of Bigfoot Quest Magazine. From childhood memories of strange howls in Lassen National Forest to intriguing stone tool findings, Ray shares his unique journey into the world of Bigfoot. Explore his adventures across Yosemite, the Mojave Desert, Northern Idaho, and Montana, where he uncovers intriguing evidence of Bigfoot's existence, including footprints, mysterious nests, and even hair samples. Ray also delves into fascinating Native American legends and the scientific studies he has conducted over the years. Don't miss this episode for an in-depth look at Ray's remarkable encounters and invaluable contributions to Bigfoot research.Resources:Bigfoot Quest Magazine: https://amzn.to/3XBoLWV (Amazon affiliate link)Sasquatch Summerfest this year, is July 11th through the 12th, 2025. It's going to be fantastic. Listeners, if you're going to go, you can get a two day ticket for the cost of one. If you use the code "BFS" like Bigfoot society and it'll get you some off your cost.Priscilla was a nice enough to provide that for my listeners. So there you go. I look forward to seeing you there. So make sure you head over to www. sasquatchsummerfest. com and pick up your tickets today.If you've had similar encounters or experiences, please reach out to [e-mail]. Your story could be the next one we feature!🔴 Subscribe to our Youtube channel and leave a comment here: https://www.youtube.com/@BigfootSociety?sub_confirmation=1Want to call in and leave a voicemail of your encounters for the podcast - Check this out here - https://www.speakpipe.com/bigfootsociety(Use multiple voice mails if needed!)Share this video with a friend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5v75Od-X38Watch more episodes of the Bigfoot Society podcast here – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3t1vwtsKh-MGeHs0XglFJE5LwUHpmJm_&feature=sharedRecommended Playlist – New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3t1vwtsKh-Mk4032IyZtWgP6LVPU8uat✅ Help me help others share their Bigfoot Encounter by joining the community on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsociety✅ Hear ad-free episodes early by joining the community on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7Q/joinLet’s connect:Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/bigfootsociety/Twitter – https://twitter.com/bigfoot_societyTiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@bigfoot.societySupport Bigfoot Society by checking out these businesses and products we use below:Beam (better sleep)https://share.shopbeam.com/hnpc4ypeWildgrain (better bread)https://wildgrain.com/a/refer-a-friend/redeem/6ogi3frocb2zwtbx8gx8lksvnpgb6tnxbhqlhfk2/8487Goodchop (better meat)https://www.goodchop.com/plans?c=TB1-J803T6DKO&plans_ab=true&utm_campaign=clipboard&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=raf-share-hptSeed (better probiotic)https://refer.seed.com/x/JQ3nHFMedi-Share (better health care)https://bit.ly/4iHULkoRepurpose.iohttps://repurpose.io?fpr=28951Descript (transcription and visual editing) https://get.descript.com/r3bclm1qi6r3Streamyard (platform for recording)https://streamyard.com/?fpr=bigfootsociety Riverside.fm (platform for recording) https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=bigfootsocietyAffiliate links mean I earn a commission from qualifying purchases. This helps support my channel at no additional cost to you.My Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3L1q8XYPut some pep in my step by buying me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/bigfootsocietyPick up some merch here: https://www.etsy.com/shop/bigfootsociety/?etsrc=sdtSend mail here:Bigfoot Society125 E 1st St. #233Earlham, IA 50072Send business inquiries to: [e-mail]

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you're the privilege of talking to Ray Harwood today. you may know him from Bigfoot Quest magazine he's an individual that heads that up but welcome to the show ray how's it going man oh really good thanks i appreciate your call and interview absolutely yeah it's i've been looking forward to to chatting with you i know you've got many many years in the uh bigfoot subject but you know when i talk to someone uh that's been who's really into it like yourself i always like to to know what What was it that first got you into this subject to begin with? Okay. My journey into the Bigfoot world was kind of in different segments. It started out with probably in search of Bigfoot, if you remember with Leonard Nimoy, and that came out in 1986, 1976.

And they did some of the major Bigfoot findings at the time. and then of course movies like Legends Boggy Creek and things like that you know that most people saw and then when I was a kid my father used to take us camping quite a bit and we were camping up up in the Lasan National Forest which is a volcanic area where there's lava flows and lava tubes and pumice and obsidian all these igneous type volcanic types. flows and stuff and they have a park there. And we were camping in there and we heard these ungodly howls. And I remember my father thinking they may be Mountain Lions or something like that. And since I've heard Mountain Lions like, you know, on video or in recordings

and even in real life and it didn't sound anything like these, these things, whatever it was, had huge lungs, almost across between some kind of, like when you hear an elk scream with the whistles, but then you'd hear deep howls. And it was so loud, it was just echoing off these volcanic lavitudes and canyons throughout that area. And that was the first time I had any kind of experience. And at the time, I didn't know or have any idea. I just assumed it was Mount Lyons. until I actually heard them, and then I realized it must have been something different.

And then I had a professor in college. I was an archaeology student and forensic anthropology. And one of my professors was a what they call a lithic specialist or stone tool specialist that had studied in France under another lithic specialist, one of the pioneers of that science named Francois Boards. So Clay Singer came back in the 60s from that experience, and his expertise was in paleolithics, which is the old stone age, mezolythics, which is the middle stone age, and then, of course, the Neolithics, which is the new stone age. And I got sort of put under his wing and learned about stone tools and things like that, and that was my specialty within a sub-cableness. category of archaeology.

In any case, one day he had his 1967 Volkswagen bug, and he drove myself and himself out to the Mojave Desert to a place called Yermot where they have a place called the Calico Early Mansite or Calico Ghost Town. And there's an archaeological site there that people growing up in the 1960s would know of Richard Leakey and Lewis Leakey. They always had PBS specials about digging up artifacts and ancient skeletal remains in the Olduvite Gorge in Africa and things like that.

So this Calico site had stone tools that allegedly predated human occupation in the new world. And in the 1960s and 70s, the main course of archaeology in America was finding what they called pre-Clovis artifacts, which was the Clovis migration was 12,000 years ago across the Bering Straits. And the predominant thought at the time is that there was no pre-Clovis individuals in the United States or what was, you know, the American continent, which would include South America and up through Canada

into Alaska. And so there was what they called the Berzels hypothesis where Clovis Man came across the Bering Land Bridge and came down the west coast of Alaska and Canada into the New World. And that's the, that was the predominant theory about how the Native Americans came in. And so in that respect the calico site predated 12,000 years or pre-Clovis by like almost 200,000 years, which didn't make sense and fit into the archaeological paradigm. So it was my conception at the time that it was pre-Homo sapien in America, but it wasn't humans. It was like a relicent hominoid or something of that sort. And I was thinking after seeing the Patterson-Ginland film and the in search of that perhaps what these Bigfoot or Sasquatch may have been the ones

that were working stone into these Paleolithic hand axes at the Calico site. And if you Google Calico early man site, you look at the stone tools, you'll see they're obviously, you know, crafted the detached flakes of this flint into hand-act shaped forms. And at the time, it was at the shore of the Manix Lake in that area. It wasn't the Mojave Desert. Back then, it was, you know, a lake with, you know, everything that goes along with that environment. So after that, I didn't think much of it until I was taking a vacation at the Yosemite National Park. And on the way in, we stopped at a place called View Lodge, which is in the canyon leading up into one of the entries into the park. And we were taking a hike.

And I crossed a little stream bed that was predominantly, it was mostly dry. And then we were climbing up some boulders where we found what they call bedrock mortar. And what those are, they're mortar and pestle that the Native Americans use to grind their acorns and sage seeds and what not. And there are deep cylindrical holes in the mass of boulders or even in the bedrock, which is granite. And then he used a pestle, an elongated piece of granite that's shaped in the cylindrical form with round edges, ends that they would pulverize and grind these food stuffs. Well, one of these holes, over time, the holes filled with pine needles and rotten leaves and dirt and then water gets in them. And you can still see them, but they're covered up. Well, one of these holes had been dug out

and the pestles put into the mortar and something had been grinding something in there. and at first I assumed it was someone showing someone how they how they worked and things like that who might have been hiking in the area but it was off trail it was just busting brush and after seeing that we went back towards our vehicle and when we passed the dry creek bed again in the sand I saw the classic bigfoot footprints in in the sand and of course from the television programs and whatnot. Oh my gosh, this really does exist, to quote Bob Gimlin. I looked and here's these big footprints.

And the strange thing about them, at the time it looked to me like whatever it was, the Sasquatch had been running down the creek. And where the footprints stopped was a mass of vegetation like a briar. And there was, I could not get through it. But you know, it's just like deer and elk and moose and things. They can hit a briar like that and move through without any problem where a human will get all ripped up and hesitate and not be able to go through. But whatever this, I think a big foot, could not have gotten through. I mean, would have just gone through like a deer or an elk, but a human could not have done it.

But the feet were bare feet and they were large. but I had no idea. At the time, I hadn't researched it. I had no idea what the mid-tarsal break was or the wide heels or the different types of toes. I didn't know any of that sort of thing. I just knew these were large footprints and they had no nails like a human footprint. And it wasn't in an area where humans would be barefoot swimming or anything like that. Anyway, so that was interesting.

So I went back later and tried to cast it, but I didn't use plaster. I used to cement. So I filled the things. And when they dried, I pulled them out and they just pretty much broke apart. So I didn't really have any castings. But I did, you know, have a videotape of the whole thing. And the interesting part about these footprints is at one point, I followed the footprints backwards away from the briar. and I found one area where there was defecation all around this area beneath a boulder.

And in one spot, you could see two footprints and then scat right underneath it, like the thing was squatting right there and left imprints of the feet and the scat. And I haven't heard anyone finding that. And the weird thing about the scat was it was filled with berry seeds. like, you know, almost like, you know, the big berry seeds you see like from huckleberries or that sort of thing. And then, let's see, I didn't really think much about it after that. I thought it was interesting. And I was talking to a forest ranger at the time, and he said, well, maybe you saw a bear. And my answer was, well, maybe people that see bear are really seeing a

saucequatch and they're mistaking it for a bear. But that's how that went. And then later, when I was in college at the Archaeological Research Center, one of the professors invited me up to the Paiute Reservation. At the time, I was doing a lot of replicative systems analysis or replicating stone tools. What fits in the, and the verbiage would be flint napping, taking flint and silica material like obsidian and experimenting with the reduction into usable pieces and then into arrowheads and projectile points or stone axes and whatnot. So they brought me up to the Paiute Reservations to reintroduce that technology to the Native Americans that lived along an obsidian flow as a cultural like a reculturization type of thing. So I went up there and I did

that. One thing I noticed is on one of the trips they brought me up to an area where they did their traditional collecting of pinion nuts. So we went up and there was Wikiups

that are similar to the saucequatch structures and they would stay in those during this collection of the pinion nuts and you could see where old wikiups had rotted away. So they've been doing this for generations.

And one of the things they would do is take this pine bough and make a whip. And they would whip the trees to get the pinion pine cones to fall. And at the same time, the nuts would fly out of the cones quite a bit and land on these tarps, along with some large pine grubs known as Bohogi, and the kids would eat those. and then later I found that I was finding these similar whips away from their traditional collecting areas. And I attributed that to Sasquatch. And I was thinking that they were doing the same sort of thing. And also they use it to knock down birds nests to get eggs and baby birds or whatever and squirrels for food stuff.

And then I don't remember anything else in that California area, except for petroglyphs that, you know, showed Sasquatch. Are you talking about the Toolee River Petrogloss? The Tully River Petroglyphs were, as the crow flies, very close to where I was there in Yosemite. So, and that was the, yeah, the Tully River ones. Okay. Were there other ones that you knew of that also had the same artwork in that? them. Similar. I've seen petroglyphs that have just the large feet that are obvious, you know, they're not human-looking feet. Plan B made over-the-counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago.

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And I've seen, you know, the ones that look, you don't really know if they're aliens or humans or that kind of petroglyphs. And yeah, that's true. And then that's all I can remember back then. Okay. I didn't really have any other experiences. But then, so then there was a long break where I had no, no real experiences like that. And then about 12 years ago, I moved to Northern Idaho and the Idaho Panhandle.

and right away I noticed something that was interesting. I went to the area where the cockney salmon die off at Lake Cortland. And you go up there because the bald eagles come in and eat those dying coquony salmon. And then the salmon after they spawn naturally die off. But before they die, they're still, you know, fresh and edible. So the bald eagles come and swoop down and knock them on the head. And when they get slow enough, the fish, that is, then the eagles pick off the salmon and eat them. But there's still so many of them that the Pea Rock beaches on the edge of the lake are covered with probably four inches of fish, probably six foot wide.

and then they float off into the into the lake. It turned his die off. And while I was looking at that, I found a footprint. So I thought that was interesting. So along, I went up the hill from the beach there, and I noticed that there was what they call, in the Olympic project, they had what they thought were nests. And I found something similar.

just above the salmon dye off there at the Lake Cordillane one year. So that was a footprint along with, of course, a natural food, seasonal food gathering area, and then what looked to me like the same type of nests they had in the Olympic project. And then the same sort of scenario, I was up Huckleberry picking on the COB, the east side of the Idaho panhandle. where I came upon what looked like a footprint in the dust. It's kind of an interesting type of substrate here they have, where the ground is very hard. But when Mount St. Helens went off years back,

all the ash came down and created almost like a fine soil, or like an ash soil that still sits on top of these hard pans. and so when you get a footprint, you can see the footprint, but you could never cast it because it's just in the dust. So I was Huckleberry picking, and I saw one of these footprints, again, a seasonal food stuff that would be good for, you know, bears, sawsquad, humans, and that sort of thing. So anyway, I poke my head up after seeing the print, and there was an old man there, and we both thought each other was an animal and both kind of just. jumped up, it startled. And I said, boy, you see the size of these bare prints? And he says, oh, yeah, you think they're bare, huh? And I said, and I didn't want to, I didn't want to get into a conversation, because if someone, you know, isn't in the Bigfoot community, you get kind of

some strange looks. If you think, oh, it's a, you know, it's a soft squash. But he knew. And then in that same area, I was camping. And it was early in the morning. I was, I had a camp. fire going and I was making some of the instant pancakes and whatnot on my Coleman stove and like a Chevy you know a modified Chevy pickup truck with the big tires pulls up and a younger guy of course at my age everyone's younger but a guy in probably his 30s pulled up and he came up and he wanted to chat for a while and I was talking with him and he said that he had been camping up a little bit higher up, which would be northeast of where I was camping. And he said that during the night, they heard those bellowing howls

and all sorts of what, you know, like the Ron Moorhead, Sierra Sounds-type vocalisms and things really loud and crashing together rocks and clanking rocks. And a lot of things attributed to what, you know, what the Bigfoot community attributes to Saw Squatch. So he said, you know, they were all really nervous and things like that. So he said he woke up in the morning, and of the original five people in the camp, he was the only one left. So they all got scaring left in the night.

So first thing in the morning, he came down the hill, and that was the first one he saw. So he pulled into my camp and was, he started out by saying, you know, how do you feel about Saw Squatch? and I had an old Nyandrover with Sasquatch stickers all over, so I think he pretty much knew. So he told me this story about the yelling and him and the last one left. But he also added that the year before during deer season, he'd gone up a trail to his hunting blind. And while he was headed for his tree, it was a tree stand. And he said on the way to the tree stand, he saw in the dead.

dust these what looked like bigfoot tracks. So he's, he said, he took note of it. He says when I, he was in a hurry to get to his tree stand. He says, tonight when I come out of here, I'm going to, you know, get photographs and put down something to get size, you know, some kind of measurement. He says then he finished hunting. He went back down. You left a little early because he decided about the tracks. And he said, when he got there, the tracks were gone, but it looked like what he described as maybe a big hairy arm just went and wiped the tracks away, which I thought was really interesting. And in that same area, I think it was a year after that, I was hunting with someone from work, the deer season, and we were coming up just about the same area as the Huckleberries when I was hit by an enormous mushroom or toadstool, one of those things, type of thing.

right in the neck. So, you know, I just, the guy, the guy I was hunting with was in front of me, so I know he didn't throw it. So it came down from somewhere up above. But, you know, a mushroom isn't something that can fall out of a tree. A mushroom has to be, you know, pulled out of the ground and actually thrown. And there wasn't any other cars or any sort of thing in the area. So that was kind of a strange thing. And then in that area, that same hunting season, we went up really early and it was still dark and it was really cold.

And we were on a quad. We took the quad up this dirt road until we found like a subsidiary or secondary trail that went upward and to the west. So we went up that quite a ways and then we sat and waited. we were sitting there against a tree waiting for the sun to rise and when the sun rose that was a good spot because you had it was almost like a theater where you could see the whole this whole hillside that had game trails on it and whatnot so we were waiting for the sundarize to see that and while it was still dark we saw another quad coming up that small trail and when it got close a lady got off

with a flashlight and came up and said she was a game warden and that we were to leave the area because they'd seen a grizzly bear which she described, you know, this omits grizzly bear. And she said it was a collared grizzly bear, which means it has a tracking device where it, you know,

got out of Yellowstone Park and meandered up into North Idaho. Anyway, so we decided to get out of there. We both had only bolt action rifles. so that wouldn't do much good against a charging grizzly bear in the dark. So we hid down the hill and we got to about halfway to the quad, and there was another quad there. And this guy was another government-type guy, and he had camouflage on, and he had a 50-calibur type sniper-type sniper rifle,

which was really huge for someone that, you know, in the Game Warden. Anyway, he was pretty much like ex-military or military-type guy. So that was strange. So we kept walking. We got to the quad, and there was two other hunters down there at the time, a man and his son. And he said to us, he says, so did you guys get told to leave because of the grizzly bear? And we said, yes. And he laughed and said, you really think it was a grizzly bear?

And, you know, we didn't think anything of it. Yeah, that's why we left so fast. And he said, man, I got, I was so close. I could smell the thing. It stunk so bad. Of course, I think probably grizzly bears don't smell too good either. I mean, with all that rotting flesh and their teeth and whatnot, they don't wipe their butts. But I didn't think of it at the time, but his questioning line is that he thought it was a Sasquatch. And I think that it could be one of those things where the government wants, there is one there, and they don't want you to know about it or shoot it or something

like that. So that was a really strange occurrence. and then see after that I hadn't seen anything for quite a while and that's when I started riding horses in Montana and so I was riding horses in Montana and I came across some boulders that had been pulled from the ground and I'm talking three to 500 pound boulders pulled from the ground and used to pulverize these logs and I see I've seen that about three times there where the boulders were pulled out of the ground. You can still see the roots growing around, the orifice where they pulled out the boulder, deep holes,

and then taking these boulders and just smash the pieces out of these logs and pulverizing them to get either to the inner bark or because they were having a anger fit or something like that. The other thing I saw on horseback was hollow logs that had been, split and then pried open with these long poles, like the tips of lodge pole pines were taken off and stripped of sticks and bark, taken these lodge pline boughs, and pride open these hollow logs. And I saw that twice. And it looked like a group effort because there was like three poles on each side. And then the logs just, you know, pulled apart. And I don't know if there was maybe a raccoon or a skunk inside that they were trying to get at. But you could tell that there was a group effort splitting these logs. And it was,

we were on horseback off trail. So not likely anyone would be messing around with that. So I attributed it to a Sasquatch because there's no animals that do that. And the other thing is I found the same, same, this was a long period of time we wrote. quite a few times up near the Bob Marshall Wilderness and Flathead Lake and in that area. And there's a no man's land out there. And we would ride along there and find these things. I found on the border between North Idaho and Montana, I found ant hills.

They have big mounds, ant mounds. And I found ant mounds with completely straight like aeroshaft, reeds stuck in the ant hole main orifice where it's like in 1960, Jane Goodall discovered chimpanzees making and using these rods to catch ants and termites. So stone tool use among apes. She discovered that, and I found the same thing out in North Idaho and North Montana, which was interesting. And all these things I'm telling you, I documented on film. So I have photographs of all these things. And then, of course, I found in that same area,

I found a club that looked like it had been used to club animals, maybe a tree knocking, but it was obviously modified. And then, see, I've seen trail glyphs in the areas. And I don't know how your listeners feel about glyphs, but I found some pretty amazing looking glyphs, and I was speaking to Marie Dumont in Florida who sent me photos of the glyphs they find out in that area, and they're equally or more advanced than the ones we find here. And usually like there are three sticks in a row, and then there's one glyph that I see quite often, which is like a capitalized,

letter A and shoot, there's others on rock stacking and things like that. I found all those tree breaks like everyone's talking about. And then I've also found frozen lakes that it looks like boulders have been thrown across the lake. And I've been told that the reason this is is the Sasquatch wants to cross the lake and he's testing it for strength to see if he can hold up his weight. So they throw these boulders across these frozen lakes. And if you live where it's where it freezes and you try to remove a rock from a frozen ground. Moving a boulder from a frozen ground is impossible for 99% of humans. But in any case, that's sort of the background.

I've found structures. In Montana, when you ride along the Flathead Lake in the winter, the lake is so low that there's about a mile of mud flap. Plan B made over-the-counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago. It's a safe, effective backup birth control option that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is the number one OBGYN recommended brand and the only one that you can find at all major retailers in all 50 U.S. states. There's no minimum age requirement and you don't need an ID to buy it. You can order it through DoorDash and other major delivery platforms too.

That's freedom to be. Use as directed. Tropical butterfly refresher is now at Starbucks. Dive into juicy guapa and passion fruit flavors. With mango pineapple popping pearls bursting in every sip. Ice cold, instantly refreshing and impossible to put down. Made for summer only at Starbucks. Around certain parts of the lake mud flats.

And in this mud, I've seen structures, which are mostly big logs with smaller driftwood type logs creating like the structure, you know, whatever they use them for, if they're a hunting blind or to obscure themselves or to mark territory. I've heard a lot of different stories about these, but in any case, out in those mudflats, you can see footprints, you can see structures, that sort of thing. And let's see. Well, in any case, that's sort of like my background and my actual encounters, I've had all three, you know, of the BFRO type classification of encounters. Class A would be a visual. Class B would be, you know, footprints and vocalizations, tree branches, structures, and that sort of thing. And then class C would be someone else telling you

about these things that you, you know, that's a good source. So, yeah, anyway. And when I see, when I do document these things, I do check the websites to find out if there's been encounters and whatnot just to bolster the account to see if I'm on the right track. But the, so what, what I, the first one I saw, this isn't a visual, but this is the auditory. And what happened, I was deer hunting, and this is in North Idaho, and I was up on a cliff, and I saw like this valley of dried bones. I could see skeletons down there, down this really steep embankment. So anyway, I decided to check it out. And beneath one tree, there was, you know, a bone scatter.

And I could tell by looking one was a horse, because it still had some of its hair on it. And in that same area was an elk and a deer. And then when I started going down deeper in the canyon, I found this place where something had picked up these massive logs, something that I couldn't even budge and smashed animals to death with this log. And the animals now in a skeletal form were pinned underneath these logs. and in some cases that's a macab looking

like they were you know trying to escape and they were eaten and this was very strange so I got my camera out and I took some photos I do have photo

these photos of these macab sites and the strange thing is about when I was taking pictures of this one elk that had been pinned in by this big log and these aren't like sections of logs These are, you know, full trees that are downed.

So in any case, I was taking pictures, and I heard what people described as the bipedal crunch sound in the woods, like foot, then foot and foot. Real heavy, not trying to hide, it's not trying to be stealth with its sound, crunches through the woods coming at me from an adjustment. I was like on a plateau on this real steep embankment. And there was like three, like you would say, Arroyos or like many canyons that were coming in from dry creeks that met like in a confluence right just below where I was. And in one of these little canyons, something was coming down from up above, down this canyon towards me. and I think it's what Robert Leiderman experienced something similar in his Bluff Creek project book where he was being like shadowed and it was the same sort of experience. I could hear it and then when I stopped to listen it would stop.

And then I'd start, you know, walking around and stuff and I could hear it start again. So I thought to myself, okay, something's going to come out from this canyon and it's going to be right in front of me. So I had to make a choice, get my rifle, or get my camera, or run. Well, I looked at, I chose what was behind box number three. So, and I think that's a problem with a lot of Bigfoot encounters is people don't really want to see what's coming out of that other canyon. Robert Lederman in his book, the Bluff Creek Project, made the same decision as, as I did. He was faced where, okay, whatever's making this noise is going to come out on the trail right in front of me. So he chose to get out of there.

And I made the same choice. The problem is, is getting up the steep canyon was a lot harder than going down. So I had my camera. This was like a regular heavy camera around my neck. And then I had my rifle. And then I started going up and I had a pistol on my hip. So it kept pulling my pants down because it was like so heavy. So I'm like completely not in my element going up this hill and I kept falling onto my hands.

But the pine needles were just like sticking in my hands. I was going so fast. Then I'd hit, you know, cobbles and and, you know, rocks and whatnot. And then I finally got up to a plateau where I felt fairly safe and I just stood there and watch. And whatever it did, whatever it was, if it did come out, it was, I didn't see it from where I was. But, you know, that was really scary. But it was really heavy. And I've heard moose coming through the woods and actually had, you know, moose come right out in front of me.

And this didn't sound like a moose. A moose sounded just like a horse. You know, they do the same type of winnies and snorts. And, you know, they crush right through. They just go right through, you know, whatever and make the same sort of crushing noise. But quadrupeds and bipeds do sound really different because I used to wonder, well, how do they know it was a biped? But when you hear the difference between a quadruped moving through the forest and a biped moving through the forest, it does make a big difference. So that was one of the stranger things.

So then the other occurrence would be, okay, this would be back in Montana. it was snowing and there was a blizzard. So for some reason, the people I were with decided they wanted to go to this fish hatchery above and across. I can't remember the name of the valley. But anyway, it was sort of off where flathead river flows. So we went and we saw the fish hatchery. And on the way out, we saw, you know, one of the, we hiked around a little bit because we had

snow shoes and we found a one of the structures and it was a little bit different than anything we'd seen there in montana because the ones in montana that i saw was a structure built around using a tree as the center tent post type of thing you know branch is set up against a tree and then when you go inside the tree is in the middle or the other kind is there's a big log laying down and they lay logs across that and make like a, you know, like an A-frame. But this one was freestanding, like the ones, they look like a Native American wiki up, that kind of structure. So anyway, the people I was with were not, they didn't believe in Bigfoot, and they thought

it was kind of funny that I did. But anyway, so I took pictures, they made fun of me, and then we started back and the storm got worse. and it was really, we're on this road that was really a rural route, but it was paved, you know, asphalt. So we're coming down this road, and we're in a huge blizzard, and the darn, we're in a pickup truck, which is rear wheel drive, and we were kind of sliding around, and the driver was going, you know, pretty fast. And we're going through this blizzard, and we just wanted to get out of that area because the storm was getting more, the ice, the black ice on the road was getting almost non-navigable.

So then I just happened to look to my left and they have sawgrass there. And the sawgrass, and it's, you know, it's blowing snow almost, you know, vertically. And so I'm looking in the sawgrass because that's just where the car was going around to turn. and I could see the sawgrass. In the sawgrass, I could see what looked like, except for its hair was long. And it looked like it was on, like, leaning on its, let's see, it would be leaning on its left arm.

Let me think, no, no, we're going, we're going east. So it was leaning on its right arm, and it looked like it was holding like an infant in its left arm. in its left arm looking over the sawgrass to see what was coming up the canyon but we we had already passed where she was looking so it sounded like I think from where there was our car was like echoing backwards so they looked where it sounded like it was coming from but we were right alongside and I saw it briefly and then as we kept going I saw what looked like what looked like one standing up. Actually, I wouldn't even say what looked like. I saw one standing up in the back,

like just in the back, kind of looking between the tree line and the sawgrass, kind of blending into the trees a bit. But, no, after I saw it, I just was kind of feeling like, okay, I was trying to convince myself it was something else, but I can't think of what else it would be. you know, didn't have a snout like a bear. No, no, you know, I go back to my reflection of Yosemite. It's like, okay, when people see a bear, did they accident, did they see a saucequatch and think it was a bear? Or did I see a bear think it was a saucequatch?

Or, you know, that sort of thing. But this was a pretty clear view other than it was in a blizzard. But it was, shoot, man, I never even thought about, you know, distances or anything, but probably 30 yards, not too far, like 30 yards where I saw this reclining one. And I think what happened is it was down in the sawgrass, and when it heard the car, it kind of just sat up onto its pivoting on its right arm, and took a look to see what the noise was, because there was no traffic on that road, not in that, you know,

it was like minus three and there's a blizzard. And anyway, so that was bad. It took me a year on a horse, and then I see one, you know, like they say, they usually see them crossing the road. But, you know, the one sighting that I saw that I was really pretty convinced of was that one. And, you know, I, you know, spent all this money for horses and whatnot and just, you know, possible clues. and then here I see one by accident away from the fish hatchery. And then that was about that for Montana. And then I started riding the horse up more up in North Idaho near the Silkirk Range.

That's supposed to be a hot spot. The BFRO has a couple sightings there. And no footprints, nothing. I went in the snow, I went in the rain, I went in the summer. And I didn't see anything for the whole year. Let's see. And then I had a possible. And this was back in on the Clearwater River.

And we were sitting watching the river rafts, you know, the rafts that go over the rapids and whatnot. And we tried it. We went down the river raft and whatnot. And then we went up and we were watching them go by. and this is only a possibility, but I saw what looked like either someone in complete black snow pants, black jacket, you know, and black boots, black hair, you know, walking around like a nut, around in circles, on an island in the river, but this was like a mile away. And so I looked through my camera and I zoomed in as far as I could,

was so blurry, I could not tell what it was. But if it was a person, they must have been really having some psychological problems because they were, they were just walking around like when you see a coyote in the zoo and just pacing back and forth and pacing back and forth. So that was a possible one. And that's about all I can remember as far as those. Ray, that's some fascinating stuff. I'm going to jump in for a little bit, especially, I mean, Not just that you saw one during that blizzard, but I mean, really, it sounds like you saw a family unit. I mean, there's a female holding a baby, but also one standing to the side, right? Right, like the nuclear family.

Yeah. And but this is, I mean, I can't say that I was actively looking for Sasquatch my whole life because I wasn't. It just happened to be like everybody's normal pop culture. Bigfoot in pop culture all the time, especially now bumper stickers, TV shows, the internet, just tons of it. But at first it was kind of, you know, a little bit out there to think this stuff. And but I'd say after the Yosemite tracks, you know, I kind of looked around a little bit. But then like I say, 12 years ago when I moved to Montana to, I moved to Montana first, but then I had, I had, I had, to get out of there for some reason.

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Use as directed. The Starbucks iced torchata shaken espresso was back for the summer. Crafted with cinnamon, vanilla, and nutty notes of toasted rice. Handshaking was smooth blonde espresso and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer. Only at Starbucks. Anyway, so I got here in northern Idaho, and it was just so, the stuff was so obvious. I'm not saying there's a huge population or anything like that.

it's just as I was in the wilderness almost constantly, kayaking, horseback riding, mountain biking, hiking, because I was retired at this point and hunting a lot. And everyone I met was pretty much into hunting. So that was your, you know, your social thing. You either went, you know, coquney fishing or you went hunting. And that's like, hey, want to do something? Well, it's usually hunting or cocoanut fishing or kayaking.

So I went, you know, with the kayak especially, you can get into some real rural areas, but it's my opinion that the Sasquatch, I think there's probably, in my opinion, four subtypes or four species that are, that we call Bigfoot. And I think the one in the Northwest is the type one or the patty type, which is a big bulky, ape looking on top, big burly human looking on the bottom type structure

that's maybe a big grella type and then I think the type 2 is a bit smaller maybe like the skunk ape or chimpanzee type form and I think that the, and this isn't my idea I've heard other people talk similarly, but I think that there's the type 3

which is almost like a baboon type hominoid or just maybe a little bit more aggressive muzzle. And I think that's what people call dog man or what this whatnot wolfman, this kind of thing. I think it's the same type of thing, but I think it's muscle characteristic is a little more prominent. where like the type one like Patty the big foot from the 67 Patterson Gimlin film is more robust. It has a large sagittal crest, a big jaw, and no massive muscularity. And then the type four is from what I was talking to a guy in Alaska, and he said they have one there that's more like a caveman, like some kind of like it's not like a homo sapien or something but maybe neanderthal i think they call it there you know i don't know i'm just going by what these people say the researchers there

and i think i think in this area montana all the way to the coast and i think would be the type one like the big the big type but strange things what i think about it you know like paul freeman's video, Kimlin's video, both have simularies and, you know, bulk and things like that. They both filmed it. They both have context with footprints and this sort of thing. And in any case, I think that I kind of lost my train of thought. Sorry about that. I actually got three times today. I got a question for you. Actually, that might apply to that. Do you think these types ever could live together or they're pretty, you know, pretty separate? Like, well, I don't know.

I do know that I think geography-wise, they might be separate because, like, the skunk-a-form, I have never heard out here. It's always the big robust. And I haven't really heard too much about that type being down in the swamps and whatnot. But it's almost like territorialism. Like if a wolf, if a wolf pack comes into a new area, they immediately kill all other canes. They kill the dogs. They kill the coyotes. They kill the foxes. They kill the other wolves. It's a gray wolf. They'll kill the timber wolf. And they pretty much take over the territory and they want to eliminate all competition. And so there may be that scenario. But if that was true, then, well, I don't know, maybe they do. But they would probably want to kill off the humans too. If they're trying to, if they want to be the prominent primate, apex, predator primate, they'd probably kill humans too, but I'm not saying they don't. Interesting.

It's just they did. Yeah. So it was going to make a point on that. I took out three trees today. There's a really random question I'm going to throw out. Just because you've mentioned Montana stuff a lot in your background, did any of the things that you experienced in Montana? Have you ever been near? There's a place in Montana.

Montana that was discovered called the sage wall. Have you ever gone? I know about the sage wall. Right. Have you been there? My son's my son's been there. I haven't been there. My son lives just in a cabin right outside of Callis Bell. And yeah, he knows all about the sage wall. And he's shown me photographs of it. And it's pretty intriguing because it's not it's not like a massive geo, you know, monolith where you're, you look at it and then like on the other side that you know it's it's a it's a flat or dirt i mean there's nothing on the other side it's a wall and it looks to me similar to the structures that like in south america and stuff where the stone cutting is so advanced that it almost look like it's you know it's melted together you know what i'm saying like there's some spots where it looks oh that looks natural but that's where it's eroding that's where it's starting to come apart but he says he told me that he thought that ultrasounds or sonic imagery shows it 30 feet deep.

So that would mean even though how massive they are, they're another 30 feet below ground, which is pretty mind-boggling. That kind of thing is just bonkers. I mean, it's one of those things where it is fascinating to me, but it's like I can't let myself get too into it or I will lose my main focus, which is. big thing yeah right right I mean like yeah this is this is like my focus is getting the word out but that wall is fascinating and maybe there if they could be connected that would be great i mean then the two two could work together but you know well you know there's always that the the stories the oral history of a lot of the native american groups saying they used to trade with and you know it was more they had more of a symbiotic relationship with uh two species

I mean, it looks like to me, like through DNA studies, that they have identical DNA or at least so close that it can't be discerned. Because like in the Olympic project, they found, I would imagine urine in that nest and they tested it. It was human. And then a lot of times you'll hear about hair samples that come back and, oh, it's human. Well, is it human or do they just have really close DNA that's non-discernible? Wow, that's really interesting. I don't remember hearing about that. That is, I'm going to have to go back and look through all that stuff again.

That's really interesting. I've got some hair samples. And people ask me, well, why didn't you get something DNA checked? And I don't have the kind of money to do that kind of stuff. Because, you know, I mean, I don't, I'm just, you know, a person like everyone else with a hobby. Right, right. But I have found hair that looks pretty intriguing. And I put it under the microscope.

And the theoretical perspective is this. Okay, if you line it up with human hair, human hair, all of us get a haircut eventually. And those who don't, you know, they got really long hair and they have. split ends and this kind of stuff. But the Sasquatch hair has never been cut. So that's one thing. And that's not, you know, conclusive. The other thing is it's never been dyed or washed. So our hair has small particles, residual chemicals from washing, from chlorinated water, from hair dye, you know, for the people who dye their hair or bleach their hair. There's a chemical that's usually in human hair. The other thing is the medulla or the core that holds the protein in the hair, which is where the DNA is, it's completely absent in the Bigfoot hair.

And in Jeff Meldrum's book, See, it's Legends Meets Science from the movie, Sasquatch Levin, Sasquatch Legends Meet Science. and then he came out with a book afterwards. And he documents in there that there's no medulla and, you know, or, you know, the center DNA core, protein core of the hair. They just don't have it. And, you know, that's why their hair, I guess, is so, you know, light and fluffy. And then when Paul Freeman sent in some hair samples to get analyzed in the, I believe it was in the 60s or 70s anyway, he sent some in from.

analysis and the analysis lady said you know this is strange but it looks like the medulla is either crushed out or bleached out or there's no medulla in this hair so there's there's characteristics and i think there's some others but those characteristics are and it's not fur it's hair but the hair is though similar to humans under a microscope it's not like human here. It is really fascinating when you look into it and you read Dr. Meldrum's book and, you know, it's a thing that does come up on this show every once in a while. But, you know, Ray, I would love if you could spend a little bit of time kind of talking about how Bigfoot Quest magazine came about and why you came out with that publication. I think it's important.

We'd talk about that for a bit. Okay. Well, see, it was. During the COVID lockdown, as far as I can remember. And so I was looking for like an outlet to keep my mind. I was doing some, I was actually carving soft squatches in the garage. And I had all these, you know, other hobbies and stuff like that. And watching, started watching reruns of finding Bigfoot, like hundreds of them, you know, like all of them. I was like binging on it. Them and Monster Quest and, you know, things like that.

And when I was in college, I did a newsletter, kind of like a magazine newsletter journal for the people that studied the lithic technology or flintnapping or stone tool studies, the replication of stone tools. And people do it at rock shows now and things like that. And they use lapidary equipment and make these beautiful pieces, which are great. But it grew that art form, which is really common now, grew out of this. replicative systems analysis in archaeology. And some people got quite famous and their replications were used to bolster academic research projects when they were studying, say, projectile points. They'd find a certain type of projectile point made out of Flint and an archaeological site. So they would study the form of the projectile points and they changed over

time. So they had what they called typology. So typology was if it has the projectile points two inches long and it has side notches in it to attach to an arrow. And before that it had a flute up the center and it was three inches long and that was from Clovis people and that was marted on a spear and thrown from a spear thrower and things like that. So they had what they call typology. And then they had a structural and then structuralism, which is how they were made and what they were made out of. And then functionalism, like, okay, how were they used? Was it a knife? Was it a projectile point?

Was it a bone? Was it a stone drill or stuff like that? Well, to bolster their studies, they wanted to add how it was made. So they would employ a flintnapper or lithic technologist or lithic specialist. And they would say, okay, let's try to reverse engineer this stone tool. to find out how it was made, and that would, of course, bolster their published work. So anyway, so I got into that realm. And then, so I decided to start to actually re, re, rebirth an old journal called Flitnapper's Exchange

that had went out of business. So in college, I started this Flintnapping Digest, and it was just for people in the community that we're doing these research projects, replicating stone, replicating mining the flint, replicating heat treating or thermally altering the flint. Flint's like ceramic, you know, if you cook it, it gets a little bit shinier and a little bit easier to work and a little bit sharper edges. So anyway, so I started this publication, and it was, you know, pruderdimitary at the time. we didn't have computers or anything like that.

So anyway, I did that for a couple of years. And so during COVID, I thought, you know, I'm going to start doing that again. Well, what I soon found out is no one cared about that anymore because it wasn't a replicative science anymore. It was a lapidary art. And people were making these beautiful, perfectly patterned flaked knives out of Flint and Jasper and Agate and things like that. and selling them for art. So no one really cared about the archaeological, experimental aspect of it. So that's okay, I'm not going to be able to do that publication.

So I made them and I think I sold one. And it was, you know, it was pretty, you know, it was good quality now because I had computers and Amazon and everything. I sold one. So that wasn't going to work. Plan B made over-the-counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago. It's a safe, effective backup birth control option

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Ice cold, instantly refreshing and impossible to put down. Made for summer only at Starbucks. So I sort of gave up on that. And then after watching these, you know, the Bigfoot shows and stuff, I said, I'm thinking, well, I wonder if anyone would be interested in that. And I think that was 2002. whenever that stuff was going on, I remember. But anyway, so I made one just based on my experiences up to that point.

And I hadn't done the Montana stuff. I hadn't, you know, done that sort of thing yet. So I had all the stuff like Yosemite and, you know, a couple other, you know, some of the footprints I found. I started talking about the structures and the and that sort of thing. and some of the theories about what the species might be. And so I put one out, and it was pretty basic and stuff like that. But it was an Amazon, so it had the nice cover and everything. And then I met a guy online, Steve Baxter, from England,

who thought, hey, this is great, but it's kind of, it needs some work, you know, like editorial work. So he was kind enough to rewrite the whole thing. And he was an artist. I still is. So he made the cover. And then we put it out again and it did really pretty well. So not long.

I'd say maybe a month or two later, we thought, hey, you know, let's do another one. So we thought we'd make a theme like a theme to it. So the theme for the second one was going to be the, Patterson Gimlin site, Bluff Creek. So I contacted Daniel Perez, who's an expert on the subject. Let's see, oh, I can't remember who else. But what I did is I went down the line. I contacted Dr. Meldrum, but he didn't know me or anything at the time. So he declined. But I got quite a few people that were fairly experts. I can't seem to find it right now. Oh, here it is. So then Stephen Struford, who owned Bigfoot books there in Willow Creek, and he'd been on, he was in the movie,

Bluff Creek, the horror film, which is like lost, lost footage type film, like Blair Witch. And then so he wrote, got a nice article from him. Alexander Petacoff, who does a monster, What is that show he puts out? Well, he does a lot of films. Yeah, for Small Town Monsters, yeah. Small Town Monsters, right. And he wrote a really nice article about his experience in Bluff Creek when he was making his episode on that, all the experiences they have.

And I think he was with, I'm not sure, but I think he was with Carrick, St. Laurent, and Jamie Wayne, I think. But anyway, and then another lady, Megan Renee Lynn, And she was, I think she lived in the area, Native American. And then Steve Baxter wrote an article, and he was the British guy. Like I said, he's a cryptozoologist. He's really smart guy, and he was the one who helped me, like I said, get the thing going. And then, of course, Daniel Perez, who does Bigfoot Times.

And Daniel's been in on the, you know, with the Bluff Creek project. and he was, you know, they're looking for the film site before it was found. And he was friends with Peter Byrne and, you know, all the original guys.

He knew Paul Freeman. He knew, you know, John Green, you know, all those guys. So anyway, so it was really neat that he wrote an article

all about the different cameras and the lenses used and the experimental procedures they used to determine, and the size and distance of the subject, which is, you know, Patty the Bigfoot. So, and anyway, that was when that came out. I think it was, I can't remember it was 2020 or 2002,

but anyway, my brain is degradating. Oh, 2020. So, and then after that, I think I did one more, and then I gave up. And so Steve Baxter took all. over the magazine for two issues, winter of 23, and then fall of 222, that he did those ones. And I just, I wrote an article for each one. But he was able to get Nate Rudd and Ken Gerard and Russell Eastbrooks, who just, you know, came out with the book,

Sausquatch with historical observations in that. And then, so anyway, his came out really professional. and, you know, I just, I was getting, I didn't like the trolls and things that were, you know, getting on the Amazon and giving it really bad reviews. And you could tell they didn't even read it because it would be the same old thing, the same old thing. I said, wait a minute, nothing is the same. You know, nothing we're doing has anything to do with what came before. No one was talking about stone tools or that I know of anyway. and the hunting techniques and doing that sort of thing.

And I don't think anyone was contacting all the experts on Bluff Creek and then lining them up, you know, for one good publication. And that was like, you know, that's, it's really hard when you get other people involved because, you know, you're waiting for one more guy and they decide not to do it. And then, you know, someone else wonders why they didn't get to do it and things like that. But anyway, after the two issues came out in England, Amazon shut them down. They shut Steve Baxter down, and I'm not sure if they thought he was plagiarizing me, even though I gave, you know, full permission, you know, and I even write articles in it. But anyway, so I just thought, oh, that'd be a shame to let that go.

So I started it again, but I changed the name to Bigfoot Mystery Magazine, and I put more like encounter stories and stuff like that. And it just wasn't fun for me to just, you know, regurgitate people's Bigfoot stories. So I started doing Bigfoot magazine again, and I started doing what I like to do is the research part, and then publish what my perceptions are of what I find and what other people find. And then I met, I wanted to go to the Emerald Triangle after the Bigfoot, it's the Hulu Sasquatch program. Yeah, that was interesting. Yeah, I got really inspired. So I started trying to get information down there. So what I did is I had someone I was talking to that looked was an unassuming Asian lady.

Well, not unassuming. She was attractive and stuff, but you wouldn't think she was like a Bigfoot researcher. So I was in martial arts for a long time. So I had a friend of mine that was still into the martial arts competitively. So I talked to him. And he says, yeah, my daughter's into Bigfoot and she'll do this. So she went and got a job with a grower down in the Emerald Triangle, started trying to get information. So that was really interesting.

And I talked to a couple growers. You know, now they use hydro hydro phonics and things and it's all indoors. Right. But before that, and then certain people that were homegrown, you know, doing outside stuff, We're having the same issue where the saucequatch would come in and eat the buds off, the buds off from their wallet. No way. So, yeah, so I said, I contacted this one guy I knew, and he was a younger guy than me, but I knew his dad type of thing. And he said, oh, my son's a pruner.

You know, he goes in and prunes the plants seasonally. So I asked him, I says, what's the deal with the saucequatch? like on Hulu sauce squash and goes, oh yeah, man, those things come in and eat all the buds, you know, eat your profits, you know, and we'd put up electric fences and they'd bust them down and they'd throw rocks at us and, you know, we'd make noise and we'd put, you know, ropes with cans on them, we could hear them. And I said, well, what do you think that they that they tore these guys apart? And he says, you know who it's possible because, you know, if they, when they get high, they have what they call receptors.

And what these receptors are, is there in the human brain there's a receptor that is sensitive. Well, so it was my theory was that Sasquatch also has these receptors, but instead of make some nuts. And so I called Meldrum, and I say, I think I call him, probably text them because I don't think he answers the phone when I call. because we have this issue where I think that they use stone tools and he says they don't have opposable thumb. So how would they how would that functionally be possible? You know, they have an anecdotal disadvantage without the opposable thumb. But in any case, so it's the funniest thing. He writes me back, I gave this whole theory about the receptors and stuff in these plants

and why these Sasquatch are getting violent. And he writes back, what have you been smoking? That was about the funniest response I ever heard, especially from like the science guy. You know, he's like the quintessential professor, you know, what have you been smoking? So I kind of back top of that theoretical perspective. And I haven't been to the area since. But, you know, I think that, you know, the thing about that movie was that documentary is the guy's name that was the drug lord guy down there was

saucequatch or big foot i think saucequatch yeah so when the guy says saucequatch just ripped up these guys you know dismembered them was he talking about the drug lord drug lord with a nickname sauce swatch right or were they talking about a real saucequatch and that's where the mystery is but even at the even at the end even now no one really knows which one it was but in the area You know, from what I understand from the people that I talked to, I talked to one guy down there, too. This was in Willow Creek, which is in the Emerald Triangle.

I was looking at one of the carvings there. It looks like a chainsaw carving, and it's called Oman. It's in the center of Willow Creek, which is, you know, Bigfoot Capital into the world type of thing. Everything's sort of Bigfoot. When I was there, they had what they called Bigfoot Burger. which is a burger place that served big foot-shaped, of shape of a-foot burgers. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I'm standing near OMA, which is in the center of town. And I remember the nice name. Oh, McLaren. Jim McLaren was one of the bigfoot guys that was with Titmus and John Green and whatnot back then. And he was a student there at Humboldt State, and he carved the Omaha the same, at the same time, Patterson and Gimlin had their encounter.

So that was 67 October. Any case, I'm standing next to McLaren's Omaha statue. And there was, I guess, people waiting for a bus, I'm thinking. I can't remember it was so long ago, but there was a guy that was a lumberjack. It was one of the ones standing there. And I was looking at the Omaha, and I was laughing. and this was before you know I

this was way before the magazine and my in-depth type studies but and I was laughing at this thing and I said you give me a dirty look and I says what what's wrong do you believe in Bigfoot and he got mad he says man I've heard him talk

he says I've heard him talk and he says you know when you're way back in there taking trees they do they do come out and investigate like Jerry Crew. You know, they were making a road in that area, you know, my law's camp. And then, you know, he found the footprints in the morning, which is why they named it Bigfoot, right?

Went to Humboldt Times. Jerry Crew was, I'm pretty sure the one who named them Bigfoot. I've talked to Carl Crew, his nephew, I guess, or his great nephew. And he says, yeah, he was the first one to call it Bigfoot. And then the Humboldt Times published it, no rest of his history. Yeah, he said he heard them talk. And this guy was, I mean, not only serious, but, you know, angry that, like, you know, you don't come to someone's town and mock their beliefs, you know. And, but anyway, you know, it wasn't really thought it was funny.

It was just like we were joking around with a statue, you know. Right, right. And the Native Americans here in the area have real deep oral history on Omaha. even to the extent of describing it using tools. One description I have is what they'd take a soaproot, which is kind of a tall grass and it has like an onion at the bottom or a tuber, and they would take, according to oral history, they would take this soap root and squish it up into suds

because it squishes up, it makes like soap suds, and they'd put it in the creeks and it would clog up the fishes gills and they would just float up and the Sasquatch would pick them up, off the top and eat them, which is interesting. And then they also said that they would make throw rocks and they would, you know, just like, you know, the stories you hear now. And then part of the oral histories that the OMA actually, if you see the horror film about Sasquatch, you can't remember what it's called.

Shoot. Willow Creek. No, there's one that actually the Sasquatch wear masks and shoot arrows and whatnot. I can't remember what's called. But anyway, there is one movie that has OMA in it, and he follows the Native American oral tradition of, you know, covering his face with the mask, shooting arrows and stuff like that. And they actually said that in the oral tradition that it used poison arrows with poison arrowheads. And if you look in that area, I think it was, yeah, it would be just inland from that area and a bit to the north. I worked on the Paiute Reservation there as a seasonal archaeologist once.

And I met a guy who had, one of the main medicine man guy, he told me some Sasquatch legends. And one of them was that they would use the same as the OMA back in Willow Creek. The OMA in their tradition also used tools and whatnot. And they used a red obsidian. And Red Obsidian, according to their oral tradition, was ritually poisoned. Plan B made over-the-counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago. It's a safe, effective backup birth control option that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts by temporarily delaying ovulation.

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Ice cold, instantly refreshing and impossible to put down. Made for summer only at Starbucks. Like a ritualistic poison. Like if you shot someone, if you had obsidian, and you laid it out the rock, the raw rock, they would have different meanings for different ones. Like if you had a real fancy rainbow s luminescence about it, that, you know, you use that for trade, you know, and that makes perfectly common sense. And then if you had black obsidian, you'd use that for hunting, say, deer, you would make a projectile point. If it was gray, it's got a little bit of texture and it's a little tougher.

to use that for spear point, a knife, or a thrusting object, or even an axe head. And then if you have red, that's ritually poisoning and use it on your enemies to kill them. So I thought that was interesting that the oral history about the sauce, the own, which is, you know, the saucewatch there, would have the same oral history, like almost, you know, similar to the Paiute's hunting, hunting medicine. But anyway, that's so fascinating stuff. So the oral tradition you were saying over by Willow Creek, was that from the Hoopa tribe done? Hupa would be OMA, yeah. Okay, cool. That would be the Oroville Reservation, I think it is.

And something interesting about that reservation on Oroville is when I was in college, I was studying this one guy, the Native Americans there have what they call the white deer dance. and they would dance, you know, like around, you know, the fire, whatever like this kind of stuff in their native regalia. And they would have albino deer skins because they had big medicine, you know. And then you would put the albino deer head on their head, like a hat. And then the skin would be like a cape. And then they would have a headband that had like bear teeth. but they were facing up. And they would dance with a staff that had a deer skin on it.

Also, you know, the albino deerskin. And then they would have these giant obsidian blades. And by blades, I don't mean like, you know, detached sharp rock that's large is considered a blade in archaeology. But they were flaked on both sides like an arrowhead with a nice flaking on both sides or an obsidian knife or anything. But these things were like 30, 40 inches long, a foot in width and the thickness of about three inches in the center. So these are massive.

You know, you're talking about 50, 60 pounds, and they're beautiful. They look like a surfboard, but, you know, obsidian or volcanic glass. So it's like a gemstone. It's like a semi-precious gem, and it's the size of a boogie board or large skateboard. and they're dancing with these things and they have a thong around their arm and then around the blade. Well, the guy who was flintnapping those

for the Uruk, Keroch, and Hoopa, all three of those in that area, he himself was a Kareok, Native American. His name was Ted Orcutt, and I can't remember his Indian name was Mitsopisa fish or something like that, which means up river boy because he lived up on the river.

So anyway, I was researching his techniques to make these giant blades. And I found it where a ethnologist or an anthropologist had been interviewing him and some of his family members because he learned the trade from his uncle, who was also a Karok. So anyway, so I'm reading this thing. And right during the interview, so all the Karak stopped, the interview, breakup. and the uncle had seen a saw squash running across this hill. And this is like in the 19th. Oh, wow. Yeah, and it's in this and it's in this microfish, you know,

because this is really obscure literature. You have to really dig to get this stuff, as you can imagine. It's not like mainstream pop culture stuff. So even when I'm trying to find out about some rare technology from the past, And this is all our past. No matter who you are, at some point, your ancestors were making stone flint tools. I mean, even, you know, in the Revolutionary War, these flint lock rifles. Someone had to chip those flints to put in those rifles to set off the spark.

So flint mining and flint working had never, it's never been a lost art. Like some people say, oh, that's a lost art. No, it really never was. but anyway so I thought that was so bizarre because that was when when I was doing that research it was like

you know a long time ago before I was really heavy into the Bigfoot research so I just like that's kind of strange that's kind of random you know like what? They stopped the interview with this guy who came all away from these universities

hey someone saw a Sasquatch and it was like a big deal but it wasn't like, you know, Earthshad are like, oh, we don't believe in them. It's like, it's a rare sight. Like, when you see an albino moose, hey, someone so saw an albino moose, that's a big deal. It was that sort of, you know, interaction, social interaction. So I thought that was kind of interesting. That's awesome. Do you have a copy of that, or is that just something you're just reading and research? Actually, I might have it. I actually wrote a book about, that's a piece of fitch. see if I got it here.

I don't have it, but I can get you copy the book or send you the link. Yeah, that would be cool. It's called, I think it's called Up River Boy, the book. Okay. I don't have it right. Cool, cool, cool.

I just have my saucequatch stuff. But yeah, and it's, it's a strange thing. But one of the guys I was doing the research with, we were going to publish a peer-reviewed academic journal. But as far as where it goes, patience and attention to detail and things like that in academia. Never my strong point.

It's like, oh, let's get it done. Let's get it done. But I was working with some other people, like some of the universities on that research. And we found out where Ted Orcutt or Mesapisovich, we found out where he lived. You can find Theodore Orkut and Graves.com. And you can see his gravestown with all these spear points carved into it. Which is interesting. He's in the graveyard there in that area, in Orkut, I guess.

So anyway, it's all verifiable. I mean, the guy's bones are there as gravestones there. I'd like to find out where he was making these things because the remnants, you know, the waste flakes that were detached from these giant blades are going to still be there. So you could use those to kind of rebuild what he was doing. And one of the guys that was on the research project, said he was probably using a usually when you make these things you're using like an

deer antler or a moose antler to percuss and knock flakes off and then you the finer work you used you press it off like they call it the pressure method with a deer time but this guy was using actually is kind of innovative and he was using a mallet instead of like just the antler stuff he was using a mallet he had made and then a almost like a hammer and a chisel but it was a mallet and I don't know what you would call a chisel made out of a horn. But anyway, the interesting part was that in that research, Sasquatch was in there. So that's kind of...

Such a cool thing when you have multiple interests intersect like that unexpectedly. But, Ray, it has been a pleasure having you on the show and a lot of things we've never talked about before. What's the best way for people to pick up copies of that magazine if they would be looking for it? Well, let's see. What you do is you just go on Amazon books and just type in Bigfoot Quest magazine. Tons of them will pop up. And the one I would recommend, of course, the one I always finish is always my favorite, but I just did one on Mount St. Helens. And of course, not St. Helens is in the same county. as the Skookum cast, as ape canyon, you know, the ape canyon attack, where, you know,

the Sasquatches attacked the cabin, and there was actually one shot and went off a cliff in that, but I think it was Fred Beck. I think it was, and anyway, so that was in that area, and then Monster Quest when they came out with their classic thing, there was a group of women looking for Sasquatch there. There's so much history in that, in the Mount St. Helens, And then there's the course, there's the theories that, you know, the National Guard came in after the eruption of Mount St. Helen and they were, they found injured Sasquatch and things like that, that story. Shoot, there's, there's so many sawsquatch related things about Mount St. Helen. And anyway, in that county that it's in, I can't recall the name, but if you look on even BFRO or any of the other collection sites, there's, still encounters today in that area. So that's my favorite ones. If you look up, you know,

Bigfoot Quest magazines, Mount St. Helen, and then if you have to put Ray Harwood, and they'll all come up. And I don't make any profit on them for the most part, unless it's on Kindle, they get like 30 cents. But the paperback one's my favorite. Plan B made over-the-counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago. It's a safe, effective backup birth control option that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is the number one OBGYN recommended brand, and the only one that you can find at all major retailers in all 50 U.S. states. There's no minimum age requirement and you don't need an ID to buy it.

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Format. And they're more like Reader's Digest because they're like thick and they're six by nine. But the thing about it is, it's only $3.87 and that's what they charge to make it. So I just wanted to be affordable so people can get the information. And then I do another one called Journal of Sasquatch Archaeology. And if you're interested, like in the artifactual part, like the footcast, the hand casts, the butt casts, that sort of thing. Those are kind of more condensed into that realm. And then there's, you know, I just worked with Dr. Meldrum on one.

I don't want to overstate my association with them or anything. But he had been on a, he's been to China to study the year. He's been to Russia to study the Almistee. And he went, you know, with Ron Moorhead and John Bendernagle. And the Chinese one I thought was really interesting. The Russian one was kind of a nothing burger because, you know, there was Zana that was supposed to be the Russian almasty that married into human society. And he said that was just, that was actually.

an African-American, not American, but African-Russian lady. And it was just so rare that they thought she was in Almasty. According to Dr. Melior, but the Chinese one is really detailed. I mean, they have the same. They found casts there that have the mid-tarsal break and the short toe structure. And those toes are really long, but only nubs stick out, but the bones go all the way to the mid-tarsal break for the toes. So it has elongate toes, but you just see.

the little stubs at the end. And then, but anyway, so that, it goes through, you know, all the Chinese professors that have been studying it and that are famous in that area. And, you know, it talks about them stealing fruit and living in the mountains and everything. So I really like that one. Like I said, they're more like small books than they are magazines at this point. Because I went down from magazines, you know, large magazine size of eight and a half by 11, and, you know, which are regular book quality.

But then I went back down to six by nine. I think it was Ron Moorhead actually thought that was a good idea. So because I was working with him on one about, you know, the Sasquatch auditory things like the samurai sounds and whatnot of Sierra sounds. So anyway, so I started going six by nine. So they looked like kind of like a thick version of Reader's Digest at this point. Yeah, no, that's cool. I like that.

and, you know, old school readers digest. But, I mean, I think maybe we'll have to have an update in the future sometime from you and see how things are going. It seems like you're involved with a lot of cool stuff. But, dude, thank you. Is there a way besides this, you know, if people want to reach out to you and maybe they're like, oh, yeah, I saw a Bigfoot using tools too. Or is there any way that they can reach out to you?

Yeah, that'd be great. I have, I'm kicked off Facebook right now, which periodically I do, you know, like everyone else. Facebook Jail, as they say. But the Bigfoot Quest magazine, but, you know, Thomas Seward, he's actually helping me out with that now because I get caught kicked off so much. So he's kind of running it. So Bigfoot Quest magazine on YouTube, not YouTube, Bigfoot Quest magazine on Facebook group, Bigfoot Quest magazine group. And then I have a YouTube channel that kind of just faded away called the Bigfoot show on YouTube, which I, mostly my horseback searching for Bigfoot stuff.

And then one thing I was going to tell you to real quick, I'll just make a quick note and maybe talk about it next time, is my main goal, and this was very unpopular among the Bigfoot community, was I went to horse school to learn roping. And I got a roping saddle, which is a little bit different than the regular trail saddle because there's apparatus for your rope and whatnot. So anyway, I took lessons in roping, and I was going to rodeo-style rope a Sasquatch.

The reason being, in California, the Spanish cowboys would caballero caballeros? I can't remember how to say that, but would rope grizzly bears. Oh, yeah. And so on to zoos. And then the cattlemen started, you know, doing the same thing. They would rope grizzlies, and, you know, they could make extra money. selling them to zoos. So I thought, well, if you can rope a grizzly bear, you could probably rope a saucequatch. So anyone I'd told or thought I would talk about that that think I was completely

insane or stupid. You know, you're either insane or you're stupid, but there's no other explanation. Then I thought, you know, Patterson and Gimlin were both rodeo cowboys. They were on their horses when they saw the saucequatch. So that's where I started thinking about it. And then Paul Freeman did some of his research on horseback. Ron Moorhead got to Sierra San's location on horseback. And I thought the horses might attract the Sasquatch. You know, maybe they're curious about it. I think it's something to eat and they're stalking it or whatever.

But I thought if they're stalking my horse and I can get close, I could lassoom. And I wondered why I didn't Gimlin lasso it, or Patterson. And then I was talking a friend of Gimlins. I got to meet Bob Gimlin. And I was talking to a friend of his. he says, man, the reason he didn't is he wasn't stupid. He says, if you ever wrote one of those things, man, you're roping death, man. He's going to rip you apart.

And so I got that enough where I backed off on the idea. Probably wise, yeah. But anyway, sorry, I got on a tangent. Hey, I think that's worth knowing as well. And I'm glad that you stepped away from the idea. But yeah, Ray, I mean, you're a guy who's got a lot going on over the years, a lot of really cool, a lot of knowledge. But yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show. We will definitely be in touch and I appreciate you hanging out with us tonight. Okay, well, thanks for your patience

on me because, you know, when you retire, you don't talk to a lot of people so you kind of lose your social edge. It was a good time, man. If there's anything I can ever do to help, don't be afraid to reach out. But thank you. Oh, you have already. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. You have a good day then. You got it. Okay. Bye, bye. I just want to take a few minutes to say thank you to you,

all my listeners, for listening to the podcast. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much. Make sure that you're subscribed, share the show with a friend, Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can.

If you've had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following or know someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot Society at GML.com or pass on my email. Here's the list. The Suttall Lake area of Oregon, Rainbow, Oregon, McKinsey Bridge area, Sweet Home, pretty much that entire area, the north part, if you get what I mean. I'll see you back next time listeners Sasquit Summerfest this year July 11th through the 12th

it's going to be fantastic July 11th through 12th in Greenwaters Park in Oakridge Oregon and listeners if you're going to go you can get a two day ticket for the cost of one if you use the code

BFS like Bigfoot Society but BFS and it'll get you some off your cost Priscilla was a nice enough to provide that for my listeners. So there you go. I look forward to seeing you there. So make sure you head over to www.sasquatchummerfest.com and pick up your tickets today.

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Crafted with cinnamon, vanilla, and nutty notes of toasted rice. Handshaking with smooth blonde espresso and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer. Only at Starbucks. Plan B made over-the-counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago. It's a safe, effective backup birth control option that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is the number one OBGYN recommended brand and the only one that you can find at all major retailers in all 50 U.S. States. There's no minimum age requirement and you don't need an ID to buy it. You can order it through DoorDash and other major delivery platforms too.

That's freedom to be. Use as directed. The all-new tropical butterfly refresher is now at Starbucks. Dive into juicy guapa and passion fruit flavors. With mango pineapple popping pearls bursting in every sip. Ice cold, instantly refreshing and impossible to put down. Made for summer only at Starbucks. Plan B made over-the-counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago. It's a safe, effective backup birth control option that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts

by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is the number one OBGYN-R recommended brand and the only one that you can find at all major retailers in all 50 U.S. states. There's no minimum age requirement and you don't need an ID to buy it. You can order it through DoorDash and other major delivery platforms too. That's freedom to be. Use as directed. This is Daniel Fischel. And Ryder Strong from PodMeets World.

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