Bigfoot Society - Dogman Photographic Truth and Hoaxes Revealed | The Manwolf Files | Karac St. Laurent and Eli Watson

Episode Date: August 6, 2022

#141Karac is a student of anthropology who runs the Crash-Course Cryptozoology YouTube channel. He has produced several documentaries on cryptids all around North America, and has produced many videos discussing cryptid cases around the world.Eli is a film-maker and on screen presence in the Beyond The Trail documentary series from Small Town Monsters.Together they are working together on a investigative series called "The Manwolf Files".Episode Resources:The Manwolf Files on Crash-Course Cryptozoology - https://youtu.be/aP82hHEWaTISmall Town Monsters - https://www.smalltownmonsters.comEli Watson's narrated Bigfoot audio books - https://www.audible.com/search?keywords=eli+watson&ref-override=a_hp_t1_header_searchEli Watson's Let's Play of Peter Jackson's King Kong video game - https://youtu.be/Md_QjiRRhqsCrash Course Cryptozoology Youtube Channels (3)https://www.youtube.com/c/CrashCourseCryptozoologyhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNnujk6JCtCVfEZXB_iJKuwhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw4zhk3aYiPznQOMuI34QiQCrash Course Cryptozoology Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2527888140806209Karac's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/karacst.laurent/Eli's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theeliwatson/FOR MORE INFO ON THE VAN METER VISITOR FESTIVAL:https://www.facebook.com/vanmetervisitorfestival/_____________________________Join us over on Patreon! Get access to an extended audio interview with Karac and Eli, a whole library of extended shows, exclusive merch like a membership card and stickers, watch me interview guests weekly live on video, a Patron-only Discord and more.https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyPick up a Bigfoot Society shirt to rep the podcast!https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietyTune in every Saturday at 5 pm Central for new episodes of Bigfoot Society!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7QIG: https://www.instagram.com/bigfootsociety/Full links: https://bit.ly/bigfootlinksSmart Passive Income PodcastWeekly interviews, strategy, and advice for building your online business the smart way.Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the show

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their faces like switching. Welcome back to Bigfoot Society. This is your host, Jeremiah Byron. Every week I talk to different people in the cryptozoology field. You never know who's going to be on next week. If you'd like to sponsor the show, head on over to patreon.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. You get access to a ton of things there, including a close-knit cryptic community on Discord, where you can connect with like-minded cryptid researchers and enthusiasts, weekly bonus content.

The ability to hang out with each week's guest after the main show, exclusive merch and much, much more. Welcome back to another episode of Bigfoot Society. This week I get to talk to friends Eli Watson and Carrick St. Laurent. They've got a project they're both working on together called the Man Wolf Files. So here we go. Another episode about Dogman, but this is kind of a different take on it. And I'll be honest, this, it's a fun episode. Yeah, I'll let you figure it out as we go along. I always have a good time talking with these guys and we just, we had a fun one. So thanks for listening to another episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast.

Three, two, one. Welcome back to another episode of Bigfoot Society. This time I have Eli Watson and Carrick St. Laurent with me, which character Did I say your last name right? I always have like, I was going to like, you know, I'm not going to say it right. Did I, did I get it though? Caird. Yeah, St. Laurent.

St. Laurent. It's French. So you can pronounce it other way. I know. You guys are so cool. You're coming on. St. Laurent. All right.

Laurent, whatever. We are going to have a good, good time. We're talking about, we've had some technical difficulties already, but we're, we're blaring through it. It's going to be awesome. We're talking about the main. the Man Wolf Files, which is your use guys's awesome series that's on YouTube right now. And I'm digging it.

But let's start with who you guys are because there's a chance. I've had both of you on. And there's a chance some listeners may not know who you guys are. So I'm going to take a few minutes to introduce you. But I mean, Eli, you're a pretty big name right now. I mean, no, I think it's a good thing you've never heard of me. It's honestly for your good. It's fair.

All right. Let's start with Eli. Eli is a cool guy. You may have seen him from things such as small town monsters, the Beyond the Trail Bigfoot series with Alex Petikoff. He's got this awesome play through series on YouTube where he plays the King Kong. PlayStation video game. Wait, wait, wait. Yes, do.

Tell you about that? I did not tell you about that. I did not. You found buddy. Buddy, I'm an investigative journalist, my dude. I found that myself. I haven't watched the whole thing, but it's awesome. Oh, boy. Here I am.

It's good. I'm upset that someone watched a video I put online for people to watch. I know, right? let's see Eli, what other amazing things should the audience know about you?

I guess the primary one is that in addition to be on the trail I am a video editor so I do a lot of editing for Small Town Monsters so I've edited the vast majority of the Bigfoot Project episodes

as well as I'm kind of like directing now the Ridge the latest series, Sasquatch on Earth the Ridge. And so basically, Seth sent me all this footage

and just said, go wild with it. Just create the narrative. And it's coming together. It's daunting, but it's coming together. That's amazing. You also may recognize

Eli from the amazing crypted campfire podcast. Oh, yeah. Days of Your. Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, remember that thing? I am well there's

talks of a reemergence there's an exclusive you heard it here first wow I don't know that's all I can say all right there's rumblings fingers

fingers cross kids oh guys this is so unprofessional of me but I'm going to point it out real quick you guys are in stream yard so you can see the chat on the side right? I haven't checked

but yeah so I want to make sure you're aware the cool thing about the Patreon is that they can actually watch this live too

so just be aware there are people hanging out with us live as well I'm sorry totally unprofessional but I think I let you know earlier anyways

wow this episode is gonna rock dude uh Karek let's go to you next I'm so giddy talking to you guys you guys are super cool dudes I met

Eli and he came out, hung out with Alex. We went to the Van Meter area. We went to that Bigfoot barbecue place. It was great. We had dinner in the morning. We did. Yeah. That sounds like an art house. So, Kerik, you're best, I would say you're best known for the amazing cryptozoology documentary YouTube channel,

crash course cryptozoology, which is like, wow, the stuff you put out on there is really, really cool. And hats off to you, my friend, you are a cool guy because you're one of, there's a few guys that I always keep in mind where if I have a question about some like really random cryptozoology history trivia thing, you're the guy I go to. and if you don't know the answer, you can really think of a lot of places to look really quick, which is awesome.

So I appreciate you for that, dude. I'm glad that I come off that way because I found that I'm forgetting a lot of dates of cases and things that I used to know. So I'm glad that I'm still useful for any historical purposes here. Totally, totally. So let's talk about why I have you on tonight, guys. So when I first heard about the Man Wolf Files, I was like, that's intriguing. First I'm intrigued for the obvious reason is why call it Manwulf Files? If Carrick, if you could answer that and yeah.

Well, Eli, I don't think that I don't think you and I ever had a discussion on the title because I was working with a different. researcher for like maybe about three months on it previous to Eli's entry into the fray. So I think at that point, the Manwold Files was already kind of like a set title for the series. Why I chose the word or the title manual files, for one thing, I guess I thought it sounded, it rolled off the tongue a bit better than like the Dogman files or the Werewolf files and stuff like that. But I also just found that I really liked the term Manwolf, which is something that Linda Godfrey has been pushing a lot in her recent years for a kind of rebranding of the word dogman or or wolfman or werewolf and there's a variety of reasons for it but I think the main one being that she feels it's a

bit more direct into the point than dog man um mostly because you know her view on it seems to be at least that the descriptions match a wolf in terms of the canine half of this, as opposed to like, like, you know, a dog breed, let's say. That's my best guess on it anyway. I haven't talked to her in quite some time. But yeah, I just thought it sounded very nice, the man wolf files. And I'm a graphic designer, too. So when I think of a title, I think of how I'm going to orient that, what the text might look like and things like that. And I just found that man wolf just, It had, you know, it's a word that has visually speaking, a lot of different angles. You have capital A's and capital M's and a W in there and things like that.

So you can kind of get this really geometric put together of those words. And I thought that that just really made sense in the font that I decided to use for it. So I think it was also an aesthetic choice. That's cool. I like that. I like that. That's a cool idea. Eli, let's go to you for this one.

So if you have to, let's say someone's, like, hey, what's the manual files? What's the idea of this show? How do you describe that? Yeah, so the Dogman Chronicles... The Dogman Crows. Wow. No, the Manwell Files is basically an examination of the supposed evidence that we have for Dog Man

or Werewolves, and specifically visual evidence. and unfortunately most of it's fake. So maybe that's letting the cat out the bag. Surprise. Realized disappointment is just so thick that he couldn't resist. I just, dude, I'm big disappointed. I am so. I am too.

That is one thing that I think that I found that people, when they first talk to me about, the manual files think is that we're, and I want to just preface with this, I think a lot of people feel like we're out to, like, disprove this. That isn't the case at all. Every time we find, like, a thing that we might want to use for an episode, we, like, have our fingers crossed that this is one that leaves our heads, you know, us scratching our heads. And we have had one or two, I think, so far, like that.

So they're out there, the pieces that are more confusing. But I got to agree with Eli in the sense that the manual files kind of developed into this series that really, as it examines these pieces, we take aim at a lot of popular pieces of evidence for this reason. Because we find that some of the most well-known ones out there, there's really solid evidence that they're faked, you know, very definitively. So that was, I think, a big part of the adventure of making the series was kind of unfolding that out. The reason, one of the big reasons I like the series, guys, is if you're not just taking it, It's not like you're just two dudes taking pot shots at Dogman.

You're like, oh, I like Bigfoot better and Dogman's lame. So let's get after him. Like it's really cool because you're taking, I think, a viewpoint that hasn't been done before. So there's episodes where you are examining spectrographs of audio. You are looking into metadata of photos. You are really analyzing photographs. in ways that you guys are going deep. You guys are going deep.

Thank you. Yeah. That was a really big goal, I think, for the whole series was, I always feel like it's a very, very high aspiration to say, I want to do something that has not been done before. And I don't, I have not yet come across something that does exactly what the manual files has does, has done so far. That doesn't say that it isn't out there. Maybe it just hasn't gotten any traction, and I hope that it does.

I love that kind of thing being very readily available unknown. But yeah, yeah. Before, this is a thought I don't want to forget, so I'm going to throw it out here real quick, but I would love to see a Bigfoot version of the Manwulf files. That would be explosive. I mean, maybe we'll just leave that there. But I would love to see you guys just look into, you know, pieces of like other cryptid evidence and really dig it apart in the same way that you're like trying to prove or disprove these dog man photographs. So you guys are doing something super special.

And my cat's off to you. Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We could call it Bigfoot Bureau. Bigfoot Herocracy. The Bigfoot bureaucracy.

Exactly. The Sasquatch. Wow, I couldn't think of an S word for that. The Sasquatch Syndicate. The Staskeroyce. I think that's a thing. I think that's a thing, maybe. I don't know.

The man ape files. The what? The man ape files. Oh, dude. Yes. The mannip files. Whoa. Think about it.

I'm just doing all man stuff. I feel like with Bigfoot. This is also, I think, what really just makes this format good for Dogman specifically. Okay. The problem with Bigfoot in a manual files context, I guess you can see this is a good thing, too. There is an endless amount of material for any given episode. You know, you could examine one of at least a thousand different pieces of evidence that are actually very compelling per episode. And with the manual files, the way that I figure it, we have a whole season finishing up on Monday here.

So the eighth episode, the season finale is season one. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot Society. We'll be right back after these messages. And with the cases that Eli and I have discussed, we have like a folder where we can put in ideas for episodes and things like that. I think that we have just enough interesting material for like if we wanted to, like two more seasons. but I think we might be scraping the bottom of the barrel after that. Stuff that doesn't really need its own episode sort of thing. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there.

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At the time, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the job, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 have the virus that causes the Culebrilla. Although not all the persons in risk

the will be developed I will say they'll be. The eruption dolorous with ampollos during that even the tasks more simple are all a retto. No,

learn about the Culebrilla of the way difficult. Talked on your doctor or pharmaceutical, patrocinoed for GSC.

So it's a finite, more so than Sasquatch evidence, but it's more doable because of that. Interesting, interesting.

Well, maybe someday. Maybe someday. Tuck it away. tuck it away it's a it's a free idea the idea for you guys um i would love to know the history about how did this you know was it like car calls up eli one day and he's like hey i got a great idea for these this manwich files or like what man which files what's the history behind this well eli i'll explain how the manual files originally came about but first i want because i don't

remember it that well. How did I approach you about the manual files? Was it actually the case called up? Is that I had a good idea? Like that was it? I'm pretty sure that was it. Because I don't remember, to be honest. I think part of what I don't remember was it was in the water for a while. Um, for the solid, what would you say? Like maybe eight months or so, it was kind of on freeze. Wow. Something like that. It was nothing happened with it for a long time. Yeah. And part of the reason for that was, and I won't name drop any one here because, you know, when things fall through, that's kind of like between people sort of thing. But I was working with another researcher. And this was how minimal files came about is I had worked with this researcher on one previous occasion, but had done a similar format by myself before that as well, where I would do a, I guess you could say, like a video presentation with this person, looking at a piece of dogman. evidence and explaining how it seems to have been hoaxed, what would lead us to think that.

And ultimately, if we were sure enough, trying to kind of like prove to the audience, like, okay, well, here's your evidence sort of thing. And that was a really fun thing that we did. And again, we did that once, and I did it once by myself prior to that with the on-a-way photograph, which is one reason why the manual files might not look at those two pictures that we did, just because those already have their own forms of that online sort of thing. But after the Working with the researcher on the second photograph

I said to him You know we should really make this like a web series or something Because this is like crazy how I mean those were two of the biggest photos at the time And it was really I thought A phenomenal feat of research That we had been able to figure out how they had been hoax, not just that they had been hoaxed, but how they had been hoaxed. And so the idea at first

was going to be basically what mean Eli have going here, but instead of Eli, it was going to be the other guy doing narration. Okay. And Eli was not originally part of it. Things planning with that guy's narration fell through. And so a little bit before that had happened, Eli had come on to help with kind of like the background of photographs. That's kind of the split role that ended up happening was I do a lot of the analysis of the photo of the evidence and Eli gives a lot of the backstory and he also does the narration which he's actually very good at because he's uh you did audiobooks for a while so you've got some experience. Whoa.

Wait a second. What audio books are you doing my bud? Uh, I did a couple of, we'll drop it. We can drop it if you want, but really? No, I was, I know, I did. All right. Go ahead. I think I did four or five Bigfoot related audiobooks.

What? Yeah, they're on Audible. They're Amazon exclusive, so they're only on Audible. But if you just type in, oh, boy, I don't remember. I think you can just type in my name and it will come up with the books that I've narrated. How in the world did I not know this? Is this a long time ago? This was 2020 when I did most of it

And then A little bit into 2021 I think I did my last one The problem is Audiobooks are actually a lot of work Like a lot of work Apologians We're going off of manual files for just a few minutes

Because this is really just the most random thing I've heard about Eli So So continue Odiobbooks are a lot of work I've done a few. They are a lot of work to make sure that you have good mic quality. And then also just, you know, you don't worry about this when doing a podcast,

but in an audiobook, it's more noticeable. The breaths that you take and the weird swallows that you normally do in conversation, those are just not pleasant to listen to when you're listening to an audiobook. So you have to, like, edit all those out. and it's just, it's a lot of work. And then not everyone does this, but I was really adamant on having a distinct voice for every character. So that itself was a little difficult as well. Did you write the books as well?

I did not. I did not. So one of the authors, the biggest book that I narrated in the last one I did was by a guy named D.A. Roberts. Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, you know, DA? Yeah, yeah. Well, I know the name, yeah.

Yeah, he's big into the dogman stuff, but I did one of his Sasquatch novels. I did Lakeview Man. It was about a bunch of killer Bigfoot. It's cool. It reads like an 80s kind of slasher flick, but that's all I would say. So if people, like, download and listen to it, do you get, like, a certain percentage that kind of set up? I do, yes. A small percentage.

But, you know, I won't be honest. I am surprised how little DA gets, you know. Yeah. Because Amazon takes a lot. They do. Like, the majority. And so I just wish there was a better way to get stuff out there that took less of. We'll be right back.

Hey, it's Pat Flynn here. Host of the award-winning podcast, the Smart Passive Income Podcast, which was created to help you learn how to become an entrepreneur. And in the simplest way, too, you know, entrepreneurship can be very difficult. I like to simplify things. And I interview people like Josh Hall and Shane and Jocelyn Sams and Maria Fela. Who are they? Well, they're people just like you, people who have taken action after listening to the show

and have built a business that has changed their lives. And I'd love to share an episode with you that I think will inspire you to get started to. Check out the link in the description or go to smartpassiveincome.com. to get inspired, get what you need to get started, and change your life. You got this and thank you. Well, maybe we can get the links to those and I can put them in the show notes and we can get a few coins your way, my man. Thanks. Thanks. Okay, back to Man Wolf. Sorry, guys. That just blew my mind though. So, Man Wolf. So that was the one. worst train derailing in the history of

society. I'm not even kidding. This is bad. Is there thinking of the episode so far, guys, and this question is for both of you. Is there an episode that has been

your favorite or the most surprising because of what you found out? Eli, what do you think about that one? The most surprising? Yeah. like that they're all fake that um spoiler alert they're all fake guys i mean i don't know it okay the redwoods photograph is that what it's called

yeah that one is what you do the analysis that's right yeah yeah that one was probably the biggest disappointment to me because i remember i mean i remember when that came out and i I remember looking at it and firmly believing that it was real. And then the first time I took a deeper look at it was for the investigation for this series. And it was five minutes in, I was like, oh, this is nothing but an optical illusion. It is so sad. That's what the process is. Sorry, no, go on, go ahead.

No, you go on. You go. No, I just wanted to note, it's so funny. Let's go clam powder boy. Yeah. Yeah. Clam chowder boy. Okay, surfer, dude.

Listen, it's, but that's like what the process has been on the series so often, I think. It's just funny that, like, every time we make an episode, part of our process is, like, getting ready, I think, for that inevitable feeling of, like, this is not the one, you know? Hmm. All right, all right. Fair enough. Carrick, do you have one for yourself that you were like, oh, man, that's surprising? Or that's what? Yeah. I think that the one that was most surprising to me is our first episode, the Barnyard Dogman.

Because that's probably the most, I really do struggle to find a dogman photograph that has been circulated more than that photograph. I remember being like eight years old at my cousin's house, like, you know, spending our hour allowed on the laptop and like seeing that photo when we were looking up cryptid stuff. And like all the time, all the time. It circulates around a little bit less these days, I would say, but go back like 10 years. That thing was everywhere. And I think just how quickly I was able to deduce. how this photo was made is kind of what shocked me because what it said to me instantly was

yeah this hasn't been done before at least not on like a popular platform because if it had we wouldn't be sitting here trying to figure this case out we would already know and uh yeah so i think that one probably struck me really struck me as like this is exactly why we want to do this series kind of thing. That's awesome. That's awesome. The other thing I want to point out about the Man Wolf Files is it's also a pretty solid little interview show going on too for some of the episodes. You have some good interviews. You got, let's see, you got Nash Hoover on. And he's got an interesting chat about, was it in, I think it was about an unreleased chasing Legends episode? Yeah, it was, I think between the time they filmed the, what is it, like four

pilot episodes from like years ago that are on YouTube, maybe three. I think it's actually three. Yeah, three pilot episodes that are on YouTube. And of course, last year or year before than I think last year it was, they did their kind of more official four pilot episodes that were more circulated and more well-known. And in between that time, I think is when they filmed this Wisconsin. episode. Okay. And it was interesting to us because this is one of, it was in the episode, The Creature of Crane's Hollow, which is an episode of a lot of talking about quadrupedal reports, which is kind of interesting because when I think the typical person thinks of like a man wolf citing, they don't think of a thing that's on all four is they think of your typical werewolf sort of

thing. And so we, we really thought that would be a good idea to kind of, you know, let's fit in two or three more cases in there to kind of talk about precedents that exist for quadrupedal sightings. And the thing with the Chasing Legends episode was nothing really significant aside from this happened on the investigation. So they treated it like a research trip instead of an episode sort of thing. So I don't know if they had the footage still, but they still have photographs and stuff from it.

They found just these massive, obviously quadrupedal trackways. They're huge. They were huge. Yeah, they were absolutely huge. and I had actually I never got a cast but I got really good photos of the cast and I was going to university

in my second year at the time and actually sent them to one of our wildlife professors there and they believe that it was gray wolf but I don't think those photos had proper size comparison so I'm not sure how much that might have influenced what they said it was of course

that being said gray wolves and oh I forget what the other kind is called there's two separations of wolf worldwide and half of it's gray wolf because that's the North American European variety. So to say gray wolf is also kind of a general statement. It's to say this is a wolf that's of the lineage that comes from the Western world. You know, it doesn't say what sub-variety of gray wolf that might be.

So we know it's probably a wolf if it is canine and it appears very clearly to be canine. But specifics aside from that, the height of, if this animal and things like that are still not known, but it was interesting because it was in an area that had dog man sightings. And, you know, Nash explains this, but he basically says what we thought was significant was that we were not under the oppression, seeing them that this is, you know, a dog man track. It's clearly that of a very large wolf,

but maybe this is our dog man. Maybe we have actually found what we set out to find here an explanation for these local occurrences sort of thing. And of course, that's also a very important aspect, I think, of manual files, kind of looking into that sort of, well. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot Society. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll say misreading of evidence sort of thing. So all the, you know, you're pouring over tons and tons of photographs and reports and all that for this series. Have you found anything

yet where you're like, you know, we can't really disprove this. I would say like two things so far. Yeah, there's two things. There's, um... All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos.

Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get nethered. No traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

Less stress, less time. More results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves. at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. Today, every dollar counts. Make yours go further with AARP. For just $15 for your first year with automatic renewal. An AARP membership delivers benefits and savings. You can use right away. You can also access trusted resources and tools,

to help you stay healthy. Protect your money and plan ahead. And with a second free membership for someone in your household, you'll receive AARP benefits for two. Go to aARP.org slash iHeart to join today. At the getting to the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family,

the importance of the job, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 have the virus that causes the Culebrilla. Although not all the people in risk the developer, I see the I feel the eruption

dolorosa with ampollows during that even the tasks more simple are all

a matter not learn about the question about the doctor or pharmaceutical patrocino

for GSK enlighten me tell me more they're all 110% fake so I don't know what you're talking

about I'm on one second he left he left a little bit a little bit give me one sec

You're good. You're good. Okay, there we go. All right. So two episodes so far, which are episode five and episode seven, which is episode seven is the creature of Crane's Hollow. And episode five is the Fen Werewolf. And I would say way more the Crane's Hollow creature than the Fen World. Because the Fen Werewolf, I am not willing to say that we have proven it's a hoax. I don't think we have.

But Eli especially highlights in the episode, it's a very important. it's important to note that that photograph first made it to the internet or I should say those three photographs on April 1st of 2008 I think it was something like that and that's pretty like okay okay you know and you know Eli even says the episode that's where the story was like okay pump the brakes that's weird okay but if you asked me how it was hoaxed I've got nothing I have no idea if it's a suit it's a really good looking suit um it's a it's not your typical bought a Walmart Warwolf mask hoax. It's somebody who put in

you know, I would say some considerable effort, although not beyond the realm of possibility to any extent, just more than I would expect maybe from the typical internet hoax. And that's if it's a costume. I don't believe that I'm convinced it's not digitally edited either. One thing that I've noticed since making the episode about it in particular is the fact that in one of these pictures where this subject's kind of stepping into frame, there's like this weird motion blur that just doesn't look normal to me. It almost looks too linear. And as a graphic designer, I kind of recognize that linearity when I go to like, okay, that should fix that.

put like a motion blur filter on something. It doesn't look real. It just, because it's moving a fake image around essentially, right? So it reminds me a bit of that. There's a few other things about it, but I don't know how it was hoaxed. The Crane's Hollow creature, I have no idea what that is. It's weird. Yeah, it is weird. I don't know how it would have been hoax definitively if it is one. and I quite frankly don't see any signs that would lead me instantly to believe that it is a hoax. Wow. Yeah. That is very, very interesting.

And we won't mention names, but I'm really curious. I'm going to get so, well, let's just go for it. So the Dogman community seems like they're a community where they really like Dogman. like a lot and it's like they well just say would they really like dog man a lot have you gotten any backlash from this series i'm just curious like people being like hey you're getting too close to the truth there man will files you know i have you gotten anything about that no um no okay good because you and i where did you go there i am sorry i was looking at the man wolf photos because I was like I don't remember the Cranes Hollow.

That is a weird photo. It's the archedict one, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which was. No, I haven't gotten anything. I got one, actually before all this started in 2020, a mutual acquaintance of me and Carrick's, Dr. John Stamey told me not to mess with Dogman.

not to I don't know this story not to mess with dog man like not yeah because I asked him I said what do you think about dog man he said don't mess with it

don't mess with it you don't need to mess with that wow you're getting too close and here I am maybe because he knew that it was all fake and knew that I would be disappointed

well see the thing is all right here's my stance all right everyone's gonna come out of listening to this episode thinking, oh, Eli's just a dumb skeptic who doesn't believe in anything. And let's just say being a skeptic is not dumb. I mean, it's okay to, you know, that, yeah, but go ahead, yeah.

Because I've, I, okay, well, personally, I've never bought into the dogman theory, the one, as far as I can tell, that was kind of created by Linda Godfrey and her Beast of Bray Roadbook in the early 90s in the sense that it was an evolutionary kind of tract that led to a bipedal canine type creature. I've never bought that. I've never believed that dogman was its own thing separate from werewolves. Because, I mean, really, the only difference is that you didn't see it transform, right? And there's been reports where people have said that they've seen people transform into wolves or vice versa, you know, and then when transformed, there really isn't a difference, you know,

be, and, you know, we can get into the type ones or the type twos of the different dog man, but really, I mean, but really, though, like, if we're dealing with something like a possession case or some sort of demonic black magic thing, I don't see why they would all look the same. There wouldn't be a necessary, you know, if you're transforming into a, an unnatural creature, not one, two people are going to transform into the exact same thing, you know, at least in my opinion. But there's not really a science to that, though. You know, this is all conjecture, but that's my personal theory is that these are werewolf

creatures, that they don't just exist out there in the world. Like right now, there might not be any dogmen in the world right now. They might be people. but tonight when it's dark out you know so they might start like a roo-garoo type deal yeah kind of yeah yeah because i don't think it's necessarily limited to the full moon either and the rugaroo isn't either you know um right so i i don't i think it's all up to whatever deals people are making with whatever entities and that's that's what governed their personal rules on whatever's happening it's an interesting take on it thank you for sharing that ely karek do you have uh any interesting takes on what

you think dogman is if you think it's a could actually be a real thing or anything to add to that i've got um no concrete opinions of my own okay and i would say only because i'm not even convinced that that dog man exists. Not convinced that there's nothing going on because I think there is something going on, but what it is, I'm not sure. But I've come across a few really interesting ideas that haven't really gotten out into the sphere of discussion yet for a variety of reasons.

There's a... Yeah, that's the creature of Crane's Hollow right there. Yeah, that's it. Which is so funny, I was going to mention. We got one of my friends who does great artwork. Her name's Hannah. She did two pieces of art for the series, farm we're going to have her do more for the next batch that we do and um she did a fantastic one

that looks just like this but it was based on a description of a different sighting from one of linda godfrey's books and the book noted specifically that the animal which looked basically like a very large wolf was arching its back the way that a cat does when it's surprised and when i read that description i was like that is exactly what i see in the crane's hollow photo, but there are two different cases. They have no relation to each other aside from subject matter. So that's interesting. I'm not really sure what that says. It's another reason why it kind of leaves me scratching my head a little bit, because it's so specific in that description. No, so two theories that I've come across. This person wants to remain anonymous, so I won't name them,

but there is a, and this is hard to do, I'll tell you that, to get a hold of this kind of person. there is a Native American researcher who I've talked to on a few different projects that I've done. And at one point, because I had seen a post in a dogman group about supposed Native American dogman art, but the source wasn't linked. And so there was this huge argument over whether or not it was even real. And I just thought, you know what, I'm in contact with this person. Let me ask this question. And so I went up to this person and I said, hey, you know, not just in your,

tribal culture, but you know, this person also studies tribal culture all across North America. It's kind of one of their foretays. Are there stories about these wolf human hybrids? Because I know that's then Skinwalker get translated into that, but it's not really quite the Sting Walker supposed to be, you know, stuff like that. And I'm not saying that she is 100% correct on this, but what she told me was there is this phenomenon that some of the tribes are very familiar with. wherein apparently, again, according to her, and I'm sure that this part of this happened, because you know, this happens in situations like this, when a lot of Native Americans were pushed out of their territory during the colonial era, there were a lot of them, of course, who decided,

well, okay, reservation then when that was set up. Some, apparently, were like, no, I'll, I'll stick to just, I don't care if it's in an organized social structure or not. I'd rather remain in the woods and where I've been in the open nature area sort of thing. There's an important placement on that in a lot of tribal cultures. And what I was told was that a lot of these, what she referred to as what sometimes is a slang term wild native, adorned themselves with animal headdresses as a kind of symbol of the connection to nature. And she said a very common one is the head of a wolf.

and her suggestion was that a great deal of dogman sightings might be people in these more remote areas where sightings happen running across cultural descendants of the original breakoffs who formed these wild groups and maybe the fleeting glimpses of wolf-like heads on human-like bodies that maybe aren't as detailed in sightings are not werewolves but people wearing the heads of wolves as headdresses, which I thought was interesting. And I, it's very hard to find Native American researchers to talk to. So this is the opinion of one person. I'm not saying that I believe that is the case or that that isn't the case. It's just information that I got. And I think it's a, it's kind of interesting to mold that around a little bit. The other theory, which I, I guess I kind of formulated, but it's more like I kind of came across it, I think. And it's not really a theory. just something really interesting, I think, is I first started thinking about this, reading one of Linda Godfrey's books.

And there was just so many reports that, yes, describe like a dog like mouth and German shepherd ears, but they'll also liken what they saw to being rat like, or even like kangaroo-like in some circumstances. And that got me thinking, what if if there is such thing as Dogman, it's not canine, it's just canine-like. And if so, what would that be? I actually had someone email me from Poland asking about this.

And one thing he said was, is there anything in the fossil record that you think would explain the evolution of Dogman? And as far as benign is becoming upright, mostly no. I think that in the fossil record there is some cranial growth that is similar to what happened. to primates when they became bipedal, but there's no actual evidence that bipedalism was achieved in any canines. But there is one thing that I thought was so interesting, like blew my mind interesting. There is a prehistoric species of kangaroo from Australia called the prosopidon.

And prosopidon, if you take its pouch away, it is a dog man. it has the weirdly bending legs, it's got those kind of, you know, kangaroos, if you look at one, especially a male, like from the front, they are massive in like their chest and their biceps. They have a very like overly wide frame from the front if they stand up on their hind legs. And Prasoptonon, from our understanding, had a more upright posture than a lot of kangaroos now, which more, you know, are kind of bent down have. You know, that sort of canine-like face with the sharp, years in the snout, but not entirely canine, almost rodent looking. It has a long tail. And if you had no idea what to expect from either an upright kangaroo or an oversized one that also looks different from modern kangaroos, and you had no idea what prosopteron was, especially. And I'm not saying that Dogman has Presophtadon, because that's an Australian thing. We have no evidence for fossil kangaroos in North America. But in terms of like, well, where is dog man in the fossil record, it's like, yeah, like that's, there's an even better one that's

like a more recent, uh, okay, part version of it. If you go into like Google images and just look up prosopidon, there's this one that's a comparison with the size of a human and that specific interpretation. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot Society. We'll be right back after these messages. Was one that I saw and I was like, yeah, man, that's, that's like a, that's pretty close to a werewolf. Wow. Of course, you know, this image right here portrays a little bit more bent down that some images do, which maybe would give the impression more of a kangaroo than of a werewolf. Right, right. But, you know, seeing that head on in a forest in North America...

It'd be weird, dude. It would be weird. So I don't think Prasatadon is dog man. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for Indeed,

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sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

Today, every dollar counts. Make yours go further with AARP for just $15 for your first year with automatic renewal, an AARP membership delivers benefits and savings you can use right away. You can also access trusted resources and tools to help you stay healthy. Protect your money and plan ahead. And with a second free membership for someone in your household, you'll receive AARP benefits for two. Go to aARP.org slash iHeart to join today. When I was

50, I've learned some things like the value of the family, the importance of the

time of the people of the people of the people that have been the virus that caused the Culebrilla. Although not

all the people in risk it will be the eruption don't know with ampolls during

times doing that even the things even the things are all a

not a question. Don't learn about the doctor or pharmaceutical But I find it interesting that we have something that close to Dogman descriptions in the fossil. Oh, man, that's weird.

Yeah, that is the first I've ever heard of that. That's pretty cool character. Yeah. Did you, when you're looking through different cases and doing all your research, have you found yourselves going to any resources over and over again that you could recommend for the listeners to check out to do with Dogman and stuff? We went through quite a variety of them. You might have, Eli, because you're doing a lot of story research. So I'm sure you came across similar websites and things like that.

Or even, like, books that you could recommend. See, I don't know. I just recommend anything by Linda Godfrey. Totally. Yeah, I would say. Especially the Beast Brea Road book, because that was the first, that was her first foray into anything, I think, paranormal and cryptozoological-related. as well as that kind of brought Dogman,

the whole Dogman phenomena to the forefront, you know. So it's a pretty seminal and important work. I mean, I was surprised reading it and seeing what we all, you know, common theories about Dogman and even the name Dogman, all stem to that book, you know? Yeah. They all go back to that book. So I think anyone who wants to get into researching,

dogman and things like that, they should start there with that book. I agree. This is the only one I've read by her is this one, the Michigan Dogman, Wharles, unknown canes, across the USA. This is sort of an expansion of the Beast of Bray Road book in the sense that she visits Bray Road very briefly in this book, but this is essentially dedicated to the rest of the mainland United States. You know, you have it breakdown basically by region, east of the Mississippi, between, you know,

Ohio and and state X over in the Midwest and things like that. So it's really, it's very, there's a whole chapter on Texas for that matter. Oh, I'm sure that, yeah. Yeah, it's very, very comprehensive. There's tons of really cool, like, eyewitness sketches. She's a wonderful illustrator as well. She's made her own pictures based on eyewitness descriptions. And she is just, she's fantastic.

She's great. So I think that that makes more of an interesting read, too. It makes it a very atmospheric one as well. would say. It's really, really good. That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you for those recommendations. Guys, this has been a super fun chat. I love seeing all the stuff that you are both involved with. But Eli, I need to take a few minutes because listeners would be like, you had Eli on. You didn't talk about that. Is there anything cool coming up that you can share for, for, for any beyond the trail or is that pretty some hush is it more hush hush we don't want to um um i don't want to get you in trouble so yeah no you won't um beyond the trail there's some

really cool stuff coming up and um listen i will put it this way we are planning a sequel to something that hasn't even come out yet so good oh whoa. And then on top of that, there may be a new Small Town Monsters YouTube series coming out fairly soon. I don't know. There's not really a time frame to that, but there are some big things happening. I haven't been this excited about research in so long. And this is like, it's going to be really cool. I don't want to say anything else. I love it.

I love it. Carrick, any cool other things coming down the pipeline from Crash Course, or is it full speed ahead for Manuel Files right now? Well, we're finishing up. This next episode coming out on Monday is the last one for season one. I am going to the Champ Day Festival over in Port Henry in New York, so that'll be cool.

Very good. Is that this month? In terms of... Yes, it is this month. It's this weekend, actually. Oh, wow. Oh. Darn.

Those years? Yeah, I know. I was hoping. But it's funny, like, a lot of people who were going to come, who I know, had to cancel. Shetan, who we had on our show, manual files, just had to cancel, unfortunately. So I'll kind of be soloing it aside from Paul Bartholomew because I had the ceiling with the guy that I know there now, but that's fine. In terms of projects, there's a few things that I, I, uh, Hoping to kind of really get full steam head on soon.

One of those things is I want to see if I can organize a sequel to the Hampton Catamount, since that was the documentary where we actually got some really interesting evidence. We have a short documentary coming out probably in the next month here on Wahila sightings in Massachusetts that we actually got to go and investigate. So that was really fun. We just finished filming that almost a week ago now. We could go tomorrow. It would have been. And I've got a few series.

I'm kind of dipping my toes a bit more into documentary series because those have been really fun to make. Yep. And one of the ones that I want to make is a crypted feline series. And the working title right now is Hellcats. And that is one that me and Nash are currently working on together. Oh, cool, dude. Okay. Yeah.

So it will be kind of in the same vein as if you've seen PBS's Monash, on YouTube. It's in the same vein as that kind of show where a lot of it's kind of talking about stories of these cryptids and some artwork is involved. Oh, nice. It's almost like you're watching a, like, let's say you had an episode on the Beast of Exmoor. It would be like, here's a 15-minute Beast of Exmoor 101 sort of thing. I love that. That's exciting. That'll be a very cool series. Oh, man.

You guys are rocking. Take a few minutes to go through how people can keep up to date best with what you're doing. Carrick, we'll have you go first. Sure. Well, the best way to do it is on Crash Course Critozoology on YouTube, which has two sister channels, one of which is a podcast, one of which is one specifically for all the documentaries we make, which is basically anything aside from the normal videos. And there's also a Facebook page called, excuse me, called,

crash course cryptozoology research and education. And I'm not on it much, but if you want to like reach me personally, if Facebook doesn't work for some reason, I'm also on Instagram. So there's that. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Listeners, subscribe to all three of those channels because they are amazing.

If you're listening to this, you really should be on all of cryptic stuff as well, because it's awesome stuff. Eli, how can people keep up to date with what you got going on? sure i would say uh maybe for crypto zoology stuff uh subscribe to small town monsters uh really that's where a lot of my efforts are going to so uh there and then if you would like to keep up with me personally uh check out my instagram uh that's at the eli watson and i just share photos and stuff perfect and i'll put the link i'll put the link for your Can Kong play through on YouTube in the show notes.

Yeah. Okay. I have something to tell you about that. On air, though. I have something to tell you, but off air. It has to be off air. All right. Well, hey, listeners.

Sorry, you're going to miss out on this story. But, all right. Well, thanks so much for coming on, guys. And everyone, go check out the Man Wolf Files on Crash Course Cryptozoology, the documentary channel. Yes. Okay, very good. I'll have the link to the show notes there.

Thanks so much for coming on, guys. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Bigfoot Society podcast. Please take a few minutes to review the show on iTunes five stars, as it does help us get into the eyes and ears of more listeners on iTunes. That will help us just get bigger and bigger and get even better quality guests for future shows. Also, if you have any Bigfoot encounters or cryptic encounters, please send your stories and audio and photos, whatever you've got over to Bigfoot Society at gmail.com.

If you'd like to become more involved with Bigfoot Society and get some extra content, we do have a Patreon where you can get all sorts of cool things. For example, for $7 a month, you get extra Bigfoot Society content, usually interviews, but other things as well. You get a sweet membership card and a vinyl sticker that I sent to you in the mail. you get access to the Bigfoot Society after show, which is an extra interview, after the main interview with the weekly cast. And usually they are up for Patreon members to be in that extra show segment with them and me. And you get to ask your question live to them and get an answer from the guest, which, as you've seen what guest we've had in the past, this could be a really big deal.

There's also a private discord where you can get involved with talking to me one-on-one and the community there, and that's always a great time. You can find the Patreon at www.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. We're very thankful for all our supporters that we have in so many different ways and appreciate all our listeners coming back week after week to listen to more cryptozoology-based interviews. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you next time. The views and opinions expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bigfoot Society. Any content provided by our guests are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone. Thank you.

Hey, before you go, breaking news, I've been invited by the Van Meter Visitor Festival. September 24th of this year to speak. I'm super excited. It'll be my first speaking engagement. I'm going to be speaking on specifically what happened to the Iowa Bigfoot Information Center. It's going to be a fun one. A lot of fun information I've been doing about 1970s Bigfoot researchers. So definitely come on over to beautiful Van Meter, Iowa on 924, 2022.

right outside of West Des Moines, Des Moines, Central Iowa. $2 to get in, super worth it. There's a ton of other really great speakers there this year. Laura Cram is going to be one of them. You don't want to miss it. It's going to be a good time. Also, I'll be selling a very unique design festival only. Then it's not available anywhere else by Jonathan Dodd.

my take of an old WrestleMania poster. So you have to go to at Bigfoot Society on Instagram and scroll back a little bit to see what I'm talking about. But wow, it's going to be a rocking t-shirt and you're not going to want to miss your chance to pick one of those up. So thanks again for listening all and hope to see you at the Van Meter Visitor Festival

in beautiful Van Meter. Iowa 924-22 coming up quick. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for.

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at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. Today, every dollar counts. Make yours go further with AARP.

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