Bigfoot Society - Dogman Secrets of The Land Between the Lakes with Aaron Deese

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

I recently had the pleasure of interviewing my old friend, Aaron Deese. Aaron is one of my favorite authors and also a content producer for Small Town Monsters. We dive deep into the truth behind these canine cryptids so you won't want to miss this one!Resources:Aaron's book: The Texas Dogman Triangle (https://amzn.to/3SiP6GY) - Amazon affiliate linkAaron's documentary with STM: The Dogman Triangle (https://amzn.to/3tWiARF) - Amazon affiliate linkManwolf Files - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP82hHEWaTI&list=PL2SrRupkBAjaJW0FYrRbLtABwF1IJ-zgUHellbent Holler - The Werewolf Experiments - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDq4C5H_cUIhttps://www.cryptidsofthecorn.comhttps://www.smalltownmonsters.comSTM Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfu4MCqbUGvcnQZ5uICx9RAAaron's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/hey_strangeness/Share your Bigfoot encounter here: [e-mail]🔴 Subscribe to hear more Bigfoot encounters: https://www.youtube.com/@BigfootSociety?sub_confirmation=1Share this video with a friend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5v75Od-X38Watch more episodes of the Bigfoot Society podcast here – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3t1vwtsKh-MGeHs0XglFJE5LwUHpmJm_&feature=sharedRecommended Playlist – New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3t1vwtsKh-Mk4032IyZtWgP6LVPU8uat✅ Help me help others share their Bigfoot Encounter by joining the community on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsociety✅ Hear ad-free episodes early by joining the community on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7Q/joinLet’s connect:Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/bigfootsociety/Twitter – https://twitter.com/bigfoot_societyTiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@bigfoot.societyAffiliate links mean I earn a commission from qualifying purchases. This helps support my channel at no additional cost to you.My Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3L1q8XYPut some pep in my step by buying me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/bigfootsocietyPick up some merch here: https://www.etsy.com/shop/bigfootsociety/?etsrc=sdtSend mail here:Bigfoot Society125 E 1st St. #233Earlham, IA 50072Send business inquiries to: [e-mail]

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And Bigfoot Society, I've taken far too much of your time so far, so let's get on with the show. All right, Bigfoot Society, we've got the privilege of talking to an old friend today, Mr. Aaron D's content producer from Small Town Monsters. And, of course, you may know him as the author of the Texas Dogman Triangle, and I have the privilege of having one of the hardcover copies because I backed the Kickstarter last years. And this is such a good book. I, my goodness, when I read through this, I was so proud of you, my dude, it's such a good book. Oh, thanks, man. That means a lot to me. Thank you. You played a big

role in helping me to, like, navigate this space and get to where I'm doing what I am right now. Thank you. Much appreciated. It makes me so happy to see how far you got. And not even to mention the amazing documentary counterpart with you and Shannon in. And just to watch that, I was like, oh, my goodness, it's so good. I know those guys. I know those guys. I know it. Aaron, you're an interesting interview because we mainly talk to people that have had Bigfoot encounters on this podcast.

But your primary focus, I would say, is in dog man, correct? Yeah. Yeah. I guess at this point, I'm the dog man guy. I would say you're really one of the top dog man guys. Oh, man. Thank you. I don't know if I can, if I can, I aspire to that.

I don't know if I can claim that mantle yet because there are a lot of people that have been in this field doing this research for a long time. And a lot of what I've done has been built on referencing their research and talking with them. So I appreciate that very much. But yeah, yeah, there's more work to do. Are there any individuals that you look up to in, let's say, in the field of Dogman? Yeah, quite a few, man. The Texas, the three Texas guys, Lyle Blackburn, Ken Gerhard, Nick Redfern, they don't focus specifically on Dogman stuff, but they did research on it years ago that kind of helped him. inspire me that I jumped off of.

And then people like Barton Nunnily who have been looking into this stuff for a very long time, Martin Groves, who I've had the opportunity to become acquainted with recently. Awesome, awesome guy. Your interviews with him actually were early reference material for me in the book I'm writing right now. So one little factoid there. Yeah. Gosh, I have a whole list of names and I'm going to forget half of them. Linda Godfrey, of course, the work that she did before she sadly passed away.

It just, we wouldn't be having this conversation without her straight up. Like, I'll say that for sure. There's a lot of people. Jody Cook, North American Dogman Research Project, great. Yeah. Have been doing this kind of work and documenting these reports and noticing for a long time that, hey, this doesn't sound like it's just Sasquash. It sounds like there's something else going on here.

So, yeah, a lot of people to thank and look up to for sure. Absolutely. The Dogman community is so intensely into it. And I really admire them for that. But let's say you're chatting with someone they don't really know everything you're into. And they hear you're the author of this book, the Texas Dogman Triangle. And they're like, I know what Texas is, but what's this dogman character? What's your elevator pitch for what Dogman even is?

I just boil it down to its most basic parts, man. I start by saying, Werewolves are real. And that's a fun little thing to throw in a conversation. I'll just explain it deals with sightings of upright. walking canines in the state of Texas that are akin to lock mess monster sightings or big foot sightings or chupacabra sightings people seeing strange animals and they describe them as werewolves and there's some disagreement in the community over whether or not the terms dogman and werewolf are interchangeable i've heard and gotten some pushback on that i respect any perspective on that

because none of us know for sure what this stuff is but for me the terms dogman and wherewolf are interchangeable. And I'm not going to speak for anybody else, but I know there are other people that feel that way as well. So that's essentially what we're talking about. Dogs that walk on two legs to be very simple about it. Have you ever uncovered a story where the dog man is actually having a good day? Because they all seem like they're having a really, for some reason, a terrible day. Yeah. And no is the answer. And that's one of the themes that I like to explore in this research is that time and time again, these encounters either these entities are described as very aggressive or seeming to be aggressive. They seem to be very malicious just in the way they behave or the witness

and or the witnesses left feeling very unsettled by it, terrified. In some cases, we have people reporting symptoms that are akin to like post-traumatic stress disorder. They don't sleep well. They have nightmares. They don't want to go in the woods at night anymore. Sometimes they don't want to go in the woods at all because that's where a lot of these sightings occur. And that seems to be, again, it's a recurring pattern. So no, they don't seem to ever be having a good day. The only historical reference I can think of, because that's another big part of what I like to incorporate, is the historical background of this stuff and potential precedent in like ancient literature

for it is the wolver, which is a Scottish werewolf that is very good at fishing, helps lost people find their way home, leaves fish for like hungry people on their windows, So that's the only example I can think of a benevolent dog man or werewolf-like creature. But other than that guy, no. That's incredible. I've never heard of the Wolver before. That's pretty cool. I'm going to have to look that out because that's primarily a lot of my heritage is Scottish.

When you are writing the Texas Dogman Triangle, was there a account that you were most excited to be able to present in your book? Yeah, yeah, there were a couple. The story that got me started on this stuff in the first place, like as a matter of personal interest, witness who goes by the name of Trent Fulton in the book. And he actually appears in the documentary in a phone call. It's an early scene in the movie where he tells his story. And he had a roadside siding, which is pretty,

I refer to it as an atypical dogman siding because it takes place by the road. It's a fleeting glance. It's involved in like holding roadkill or feasting on roadkill, that in different areas where we have concentration of these sightings seems to be something they like to do. This story came from somebody I knew personally who I'm related to. And you read stories online and you read stories in books. You're like, oh, it's really interesting that this person had this encounter and thought to report it. I wonder what they really saw. When it comes from somebody who was very credible and who has no reason to make this stuff up, who didn't even know

Dogman was a thing, that's when it really, for me, got me going. And then the story of James Witter, which is the Plum Creek Monster out of Lockhart, Texas. That was a case that there wasn't a whole lot of information available online. It was out there as like a folk tale and you could see some old newspaper clippings if you dig enough. But James Witter was one of the original witnesses of the Plum Creek Monster, which was described as being a more hyena-like version of the dog if you like. Yeah. And he had repeated encounters with this thing. And he had stayed out of the public guy. He hadn't talked to cryptozoologists or writers or anybody because he didn't like the way the story had been handled initially. And so he really stepped away from it. And it ended up being

one of the most compelling interviews I did, not just on that film shoot, but for that book to hear this gentleman who didn't have any motivation to try to cash in on this, finally come forward and speak publicly and share all the details with us. That is something I'll always be grateful for. So those two in particular, there's a few I could go on, but those two all, always pop up in my head first. Yeah. Was there anything that was just too intense? And it's almost like, I don't even know how to deal with this.

Yes and no. There are a couple's encounters that when I first read about them or talked to the witness, I was like, no way. I can't put this in the book because nobody's going to want to read it at first. But I think that's just your gut reaction as a person that tries to remain skeptical when you encounter something that really subverts your expectations. And in every case where I had that initial response to something where I was like, this is crazy, I would find precedent for it in other cases. There's a gentleman I talked to out of Dallas who has been dealing with these things on his property for last I talked to him was a few months ago, but going on a couple of years now.

And he had a couple encounters where he had opened fire on them at close range, got a very good look at them, knows that he made contact. And they got up and kept going. And when you first hear a story like that, you're like, it sounds like something out of a movie. there's no way this really happened. Not disbelieving the guy. I thought he was very credible when I spoke to him. He struck me as very credible. And I still believe he is to this day. Caviard everything I say with that. But then you read the story about the Viter werewolf, which took place back in the 80s, where the same thing happened. This thing was showing up on people's property, harassing their dogs, allegedly killed several of their dogs,

tearing up window screens on the outside of the house. And the gentleman that lived there, There was Bobby Bussinger and his wife, Becky Bussinger. Bobby goes outside and opens fire on this thing with a 12 gauge from 10, 20 yards away, maybe, makes dead contact with it, and it keeps coming. And this was documented in newspapers well before the gentleman I spoke with in Dallas, who goes by John, well before his story was out there in the public eye. And he's spoken on podcasts a couple of times. I believe he was at the Dogman Conference in Dallas recently, if I'm not mistaken.

Really cool, dude, I still keep in touch with him. Again, I do consider him to be very credible. But again, you first hear a story like that and you're like, this is crazy. But then there's other stories like that. So yes and no, I guess, is the answer. Gotcha. Here's a fun question. A while ago, there was the Man Wolf Files.

And I think there's a new season of that coming out, maybe. You'll have to visit Crash Course Cryptozoology to find that out, listeners. But there's a lot of videos that have been proven to be hoaxes. For Dogman, is there any evidence over the years? Bigfoot, we have our Patterson-Gimlin film, which a lot of people will say that's the best evidence. Some people not. That's okay. In the Dogman field, are there any really good pieces of evidence that you hold to? I believe the answer is yes. Other than an overwhelming and growing table of eyewitness testimony from independent witnesses, who many of which have no interest in the subject. matter whatsoever. Jesse and Joe Doyle over at Hellbent Holler captured a thermal image last

year before. I'm getting my dates mixed up because I'm excited to talk about this. That is extremely compelling. And if you haven't seen, it's been out in the public for a while. This isn't a spoiler. But if you go over to their YouTube channel, it's in their Werewolf Experiment series where you see a very striking thermal

image of a tall bipedal creature with pointed ear, what appears to be. Okay, it's, when we're looking at thermal data and stuff, like, it's always up for interpretations. That being said, what appears to be a very tall bipedal creature with elongated pointed ears, you can see what looks like an eye, because they actually captured two images of it. And image one to image two, there are some like variations where it appears at shifted positions or maybe turn its head a little bit. I had the opportunity to visit the

siting of that location very recently. And I won't say too much more than that, but I will say just as a researcher, watching that YouTube video interviewing Jesse and Joe and talking about what they experienced that night and then visiting that location, I'm as convinced as I can be of anything that that's a solid piece of evidence. And what's cool about Helbin Hollers, they're not going to tell you, yeah, we saw a dog man in the woods. When you talk to them about it, and again, this is on their podcast. It's on their YouTube channels. This isn't news that I'm bringing into the world. But when you talk to them about this stuff, they're very pragmatic and they're very scientific in the way they break it all down. And it's all possibilities.

This is what we think we saw. This is what we experienced. This is what this image capture looks like. But who knows just the way to summarize it. So that's one that really gets me. Yes. I agree with you. And Jesse and Joe, probably some of the best researchers, I've spent hours talking with them outside of the podcast about stuff that will hopefully be. revealed in the next few months eventually. The amount of time that they take talking to witnesses and researching would blow people away. It's hours and hours outside of, this is not content being produced. This is just they, I would put them at the top of people that are seriously, just want to figure out what is going on with the weirdness in this world. And they are researching

100%. Speaking of the weirdness of the world, what do you think is going? going on with this whole Miami mall thing? I think it was just some people. It's the camera angle, and that's what it appears to be. There's a lot of chatter in the conspiracy subwing of the paranormal niche right now. People saying that they were witnesses and that they saw it, and it was actually this. And I've never one to discount an eyewitness testimony. I research werewolves for a living, for God's sake.

But there's a lot of buzz around UFOs and UAPs right now. A lot of it. And one of the most valuable. commodities our society trades in right now is viral content. I'm optimistically skeptical, but probably more skeptical about this one. There's a lot of weird stuff going. There's a whole jellyfish UFO thing that just came out from Jeremy Corbell. That one I'm more compelled. Yeah, I had the same thought when I looked at. I'm like, this is something that could be done with a drone, but also, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe someone took the top of a gilly suit off of them

themselves and figured out how to affix it to a drone. I don't know. It could be something that simple. Or it could be a space squid. Charles Ford wrote about giant jellyfish in the sky. So what do I know? Oh, yeah, cryptids of the corn. That's what they're all about is those jellyfish in the sky for sure. When you were researching your dogman encounters in the whole Texas dogman triangle, when you were doing that, did you come across other things, let's say, other critters,

like maybe Bigfoot and stuff? you're like, I have this lead, but it doesn't really fit in the book, and I'm not sure quite what to do with this. Wellness, longevity, health as a lifestyle. Every week, a new trend explodes across the media landscape. And depending on who's talking, it's either a miracle breakthrough or just expensive hype dressed up as science. Enter Kara Swisher.

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like the value of the family, the importance of the job, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 now have the virus that causes the Culebrilla. Although not all the people in risk will be

I'm sorry the eruption dolorousa with ampollos with the end upro years making that even the tasks

more simple are all a lot of the clobrilla of the way difficult about your doctor or

pharmaceutical patrocinoed for GSK yes all the time dude it happened today oh my gosh

because I am still working on hunting grounds which is the land between the lakes but yes it happened

in Texas when I was working on the Dogman Triangle Not so much with cryptids, but just with other strange tales and odd pieces of Texas history. The U.S. government brought camels to Texas at one point right before the Civil War because they do well in the climate here. And the project was abandoned when the Civil War started up.

That's just a weird piece of history I wouldn't have known about if I wasn't researching a dog ban encounter in Kerrville. We have a lot of like ghost armies out here, places where there were civil war battles or clashes between European settlers and Native Americans, where they're said to be. spectral armies that show up at certain times at the night. Just stuff I probably wouldn't have really looked into the way I did. With the land between the lakes, that's been a whole different animal. There's a lot of monsters out there that I encounter while researching dogman stuff in that area. And I'm like, man, I want to revisit this later on and dig more into this thing, into that thing. In the documentary itself, and there's a scene, I'm going to try to describe it the best I can.

I believe it's in the Fort Worth area, or it's down in the southeast coast of Texas. You go out to this ranch, and it's a gentleman and two ladies, and they see, is it something? Yes, that was Fort Sam Houston National Forest. What in the world just happened to my screen? Did you see that? Some balloons went across your screen. Stream yard. This happened the other day.

I was on a business call with Adam over at Small Town Monsters. A little name drop there. And a thumbs up appeared on his screen, like an emoji thumbs up. Yeah, it's a Zoom thing. It was, thanks, Streamyard, for ruining my interview, you cool, dudes. That just totally wigged me out. Okay, so sorry, down in the southeast coastal area of Texas, there was an interview you did with the documentary,

and it felt like there was more to that story down there. That was Sam Houston National Forest, which is, yeah, like north east of Houston. proper because we hit all the points of the triangle in that documentary. Like we went from Dallas to almost into San Antonio. We were in Canyon Lake, which is right on top of San Antonio, all the way over to Houston. So yeah, that was in the last leg of the journey there. Fun fact, my car broke down after we finished those interviews and we were stranded there for an extra like hour and a half, while those very nice people you saw in the movie helped us fix my car. That's incredible. Fun fact. Yeah, I don't think any of that was recorded. But yeah, that Sam Houston National Forest

is a very strange place. We heard stories about like ghostly singing, orbs and ghost lights, chatter about UFO sightings. Bigfoot is huge down there. Like it's on my present bucket list to try to get Alex and Eli down there. And Seth,

the more the better, just get one of the guys who are doing these regular Bigfoot documentaries, try to get them into Sam Houston National Forest because we were there for a few hours one afternoon and we met with those great folks that you saw in the documentary. and just more than I can keep track of.

Bigfoot is a daily thing. That is just something that people know about out there. Dogman is a daily thing. That's just something people know about out there. They don't see them every single day, but everyone who lives in that area, it seems, knows that they exist. Yeah, I would love to spend more time down there.

Houston's the one like major city in Texas where I've never actually lived, not the one, but of the big four, I haven't lived there, but I really want to spend some time down there. Speaking of Bigfoot, Would you ever consider doing a project where you're just focused on Bigfoot or you feel locked into this dogman adventure? Yeah. Right now I'm pretty locked in on the dog man stuff.

As I go and I'm finishing the present book, things are coming up that I'm like, I want to dig more into this, but there's not space for it here. So maybe a third book, maybe a series of podcasts. I don't know. I don't necessarily think there's an end in sight. But as far as everything I know right now, I can see how far I'd like to take that. So maybe after that with Bigfoot stuff, man, there's so many people already doing so much great work in the Bigfoot world like you, for example. Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said it.

You can decide if you want to edit it out, but I said it. I don't have anything that I could contribute to that that would not be a rehash of what other people have already done. Like I did a couple Bigfoot centric episodes for Hey, Strangeness. And those were a lot of fun. Like we talked about Tom Slick and we talked about hoaxes and we talked about hoaxes. And we talked about some Texas cases that I thought are, I still think are underrepresented. But beyond that, I can't think of anything that I could bring to the table that people haven't already done. I'm just going to be making a list of references of podcasts and books that I think people should check out.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Speaking of podcast, you have a very interesting podcast venture coming out through STM pretty soon, correct? Yeah, yes, I do. I'm very excited about it. Can you share anything about that? or? Yeah. Underwaps.

No, yeah. I'm trying to think what I can say. Like, what have we said on live streams and on social media? Because I know all that's safe. But no, the show is called House of Monsters. And it's going to be different from anything that we have on the Small Town Monsters Broadcasting Network presently. Right now we're running the Lord hosted by Heather Mojure, which I produce.

Fantastic show. Definitely check it out. If you like Bigfoot Society, I believe you will also enjoy the Lord. especially old school Bigfoot Society. Heather does a fantastic job of lining up guests and interviewing people. And she's somebody I draw a lot of inspiration from when I'm talking with witnesses and experts about different stuff. That's a fantastic show. And then also our Wednesday night, they're currently on Wednesday night live streams for Small Town Monsters, the after shows for our weekly YouTube releases.

Those are also podcasts. So we're running two interview-centric kind of shows right now. This one is going to be a little more produced. I'm getting to experiment with like sound effects and background music more. And it's going to be more of an essay style presentation. Like some of what I was doing for Hey, Strangeness back in the day. So it's stuff I started experimenting with over there.

But it's finding a home more on the STM network. I'm really excited about it. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. I'm excited to hear it in the future. That'll be, man, that'll be a good time. When you first told me about it, I was like, oh, this sounds like a really good idea.

What are your feelings, if any, about hyena sightings in North America, current day? Yeah, this is a fun one. This is something that kind of goes along with dogband research because how far into that do I want to go? Hyena is an attribute that you hear often in these encounters. Not every time. And I couldn't give you a percentage, but like even recently talking to people in the land between the lakes, hyena came up a couple of times. Came up in Texas a lot.

Linda Godfrey talked about it in some of her books. So it's definitely something that is out there. If you have enough money, you can buy any animal you want. I'm sure there are some limitations there. I don't know where you keep an elephant or an orca. It's not a secret. Take, for example, the hit documentary Tiger King. You can buy any animal you want.

So I think at least in some cases when you have these phantom animal sightings, hyenas that aren't where they're supposed to be, big cats that are in places they're not supposed to be. I think what we're seeing are specimens owned by private collectors who, of course, we're not going to find public records that they own these things because they bought them on the D.L. I do think there's some of that. If we're talking about hyena like dogman sightings, that's a whole other dimension.

So that's the thing, right? And I've mentioned it more than a few times before. But listeners, if you haven't heard Crypted of the Corn's hyena episode, it's really good. you should listen to it. It's talking about how some of the dogman sightings could be hyenas that are elusively in the woods. Also, I've talked to a gentleman named Ryan Trembly about he had a pretty much a hyena-like dogman sighting out there in Arizona.

So that leads me to ask, there are different ways that dog, they don't all look the same. There are different kind of types of dog man then? Yeah, I see this. I've seen this chart floating around online and I've seen different variations of it that are like the different, the different types of dog man. I think you shared it recently, Jeremiah, which I use your channel to keep up with the stuff that's circulating because there's so many different places you can see it. It's good to have one spot where things are explained to me. But I do see this sometimes and I get where it's coming from because you do have varying descriptions. They don't all look the same.

I don't hear tales brought up very often. It either seems like witnesses don't notice the tail, like it just doesn't pop into their field of view or it's just not present. I've seen a couple where they're described as being like short bobcat style tales. I've only heard a couple where you hear of like a longer canine tail like you would see on maybe a German Shepherd or a Labrador of some kind. Most of the descriptions I see of these things, the term German Shepherd comes up at some point. wolf or German Shepherd are both.

The overbearing most prominent physical feature seems to be an elongated snout and pointed ears. And then just off the top of my head, right behind that, you hear a lot about illuminator glowing eyes. Not always. But even when you're hearing descriptions of them

being hyena-like, like maybe having a flatter snout, broader jaws, you're still hearing these pointed ears. So there are a few things that seem to be consistent in almost every case, but there are variations. Again, like the story I mentioned earlier that comes from somebody I know, he described it as looking like a razor's edge pit bull, which is a very thick, broad, muscular type of pit bull breed, which, again, you hear other descriptions.

I think a pit bull is on that chart that I mentioned a moment ago. Can you tell me anything about the land between the lakes adventure that you have? Yeah, I can. We shared some behind the scenes photos on the STM account and on like our person. accounts, yes, but basically what happened. What had happened was I had literally done all day trying to figure out how to concisely explain this because it's got a lot of moving parts. And I didn't figure it out. So I'm just going to go for it. But in November of 2023, myself, Shannon LaGro and the Small Town Monsters team went to the Land Between the Lakes.

And we filmed the documentary Dogman Territory, Werewolves in the Land Between the Lakes, while I was doing research and conducting interviews for hunting grounds, Dogmen of the Lakes. So it's a very similar situation to the Dogman Triangle and the Texas Dogman Triangle where it's a book and a film companion that the information overlaps and they complement each other. I'm able to go into more detail on some things in the book that there's just not time to fit into a documentary versus maybe, for example, there's stuff in the documentary where we actually visit some locations that there's just no way to illustrate without a visual medium. That's the overall synopsis, but it focuses primarily on dogman activity in the land between the lakes,

which most folks, when you hear those terms, you're thinking of the notorious 1980s massacre where some people were said to be killed. That's what we're talking about, essentially. I was excited when you guys, when you announced that there's going to be a book and a documentary about this area, because it comes up in reference in my podcast every once in a while. And I'm like, man, there needs to be a reference for this besides having to go to different YouTube videos. This is not, I don't know, unless maybe I just don't know about the resource that's already in print, but I haven't really found a lot. It's confusing because when you start reading into this case, and I found that very early on in just making preliminary notes for this book, there's a lot of information.

information out there, but a lot of it is the same. And a lot of it is regurgitating what other people have already said. Tracing an origin point for it and getting past that just regurgitation of the same story over and over again. That's part of the challenge. Something that's brought up a lot is that that area is just weird as I'll get out. And it is creepy and people disappear and areas are shut down for certain reasons because people get attacked. Visiting that area, can you say, yeah, that's pretty solid? Or do you think some of that's blown out of proportion? It's definitely a weird place, dude. I'll plan a flag on that any day of the week. I would compare it a lot to Sam Houston National Forest in that it's thousands and thousands of acres of government

land that is protected where people live nearby, but people don't necessarily live in the thick of it. a very strange place. It has a very checkered and colorful history. It's like with regards to the Native Americans in the region, the European settlers in the region, Daniel Boone was there in the early days, helping people settle. I found out just, this is just an aside, but I found out I may have had relatives in that area when it was being established. And I'm still like researching that and figuring out if that's something I can include in my notes. But it's a very interesting area. Moving into the modern day, you have the formation of the land between the lakes where they dammed the rivers and formed Lake Barkley and the Kentucky Lake. It's the largest inland peninsula in the United States.

So even just historically, not even getting into the strange phenomena and stuff like that, it's a place that's like deeply saturated in history. In like people. There are over hundreds of cemeteries in the land between the lake. Some of them are underwater. Some of them are abandoned. Not even touching on the dogman. sightings, which there are more than just the notorious massacre story. There are more. Oh, absolutely. That's, they've been talked to, some of them been talked about on your show.

Yeah, like there are definitely more. You have UFO sightings, some of which, there are some really notorious cases that are really hotly discussed in UFO and cryptozoology circles that are strikingly close to the land between the lakes, just proximity-wise. Very close by. That's not a secret. But there are a couple of cases that I did not realize were within 30 miles of the land between the lakes until I actually got out there. Yeah. For example, Kelly Hopkinsville, 33 miles or something like that from where we were staying. Is it really?

It's right there, dude. Oh, my goodness. It's right there. And I knew that case was in Kentucky, but like maybe just coming from Texas where everything is so far apart from everything else. I didn't connect. That was so close by. Wellness, longevity, health is a life. Every week a new trend explodes across the media landscape, and depending on who's talking, it's either a miracle breakthrough or just expensive hype dressed up as science.

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These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease. At the age of the 50, I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the work, and that the 99% of the people of more of 50 have the virus that cause a Culebrilla. Although not all the people in risk

the will be developed, I see the eruption dolorousa with ampollosos during the years, making that even the tasks more simple are all a retort. No, learn about the Culebrilla

in a way difficult. Talka about your doctor or pharmaceutical

patrocino for GSK. There are tons of haunting stories tons of ghost stories all over

the place down there. There are whole books just written about ghost stories in

Kentucky and you'll find multiples that are in the land between the lakes

or right next door in one of its home counties deeply

strange place yeah just at a glance not even digging too

deeply just talking to a couple people. Deeply strange place. Oh, it's weird man, like even just the interview I had with Daryl Denton, he brought up some stuff that happened in that area. I was like, I don't even know what to think of that, dude.

And this is, it wasn't a, it wasn't even a dog man thing. But it was just like, there's some weird stuff that goes on. Like him and Martin Groves, they're cool dudes, man. Yeah, I had the opportunity to talk with both of them recently. Both great guys. Yeah, I could probably write a few more books just getting leads from them and spend, an indeterminate number of hours chasing them down. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Will you be able to put a solid yes or no on the Dogman Massacre? What I did get to do is talk to many of the researchers who have been very actively investigating it over the last few years, including actually going into the land between the lakes, doing hard cryptozoological research, talking to witnesses, who are from the area or know people from the area. I have tracked it as far online as I'm confident anybody can. I have sought to seek out sources independent of the internet, which I won't go into too much,

but I've chased it as far as I think I can chase it with the information that's available and with the research I had time to do while I was in the land between the lakes. So I'm hoping very much, and I'm somewhat confident that I can, hoping to provide as comprehensive an overview of that case as possible to allow people to make as educated an assumption of their own as they possibly can. And I have opinions on the nature of that case and what did or didn't happen, but it's one of those things that, for me, it shifts every few days. I'll be of maybe more skeptical mindset one day. And then I go back and I work on that chapter a little bit. Right now, it's the longest chapter of the book. There's going to be a lot of stuff in there. But I'll go back and

work on that chapter for a couple days, and then I'm much more convinced. I'm much more in that mindset. I don't like to arrive on conclusions when I do this stuff, partially because I'm a coward and partially because if total conclusions were possible, my job would be very different. It probably wouldn't be considered paranormal anymore if we could arrive at hard, provable scientific conclusions. I like to try as much as possible. I tried with the Dogman Triangle, and it's a matter of opinion if I was successful or not, but I tried as much as possible to give the reader a feel for that mindset of just being open-minded and skeptical while also optimistic as to the possibility. So I've tried to approach that case the same way, but there's a lot to it.

Same style of writing in the second book? Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be really similar. I like it. The thing that's different about this one that I'm really enjoying being able to do is it's a collection of different cases and reports and eyewitness interviews. It's a research essay style breakdown of some of the background information and the history of the area. I like going into, I mentioned this earlier, but I like going into history and ancient literature and looking at ways in which what we're talking about now may have similarities to things that our ancestors were talking about.

So there's some of that. So I guess I'm editorializing on my part. But then because I was taking notes for so much of this while we were on this trip, It's also got the reader gets to go on that trip. There are parts where I just write about what we were experiencing or where we were. And I don't want to give you too much away. But it's also a travel log on my part in certain sessions. That's been fun to write because if you're trying to paint a picture for somebody and put them in your mindset,

that's a very, or how you felt when you were in the woods or something like that, for example. That's very different from researching a dogman encounter that took place in the 80s that maybe did did not happen. Those are just two very different styles of writing. So it's been fun to explore that a little bit. And I don't think that's a spoiler because in the behind the scenes pictures that we posted while we were out there, I'm in the background taking notes and stuff. That's not a spoiler, but it is different in that way because when I wrote the Dogman triangle, I was primarily writing about places I'd already been. A lot of them were places I had lived or lived near. So there wasn't really an element of going and exploring those locations and visiting those areas. is because I had already done that.

This was very different because I had never really spent time in Kentucky or Tennessee other than a few trips, definitely never spent time in the land between the lakes. Rather than pretend I knew what I was talking about when I didn't, I figure I'll just be honest about it. Nice. Yeah, I went here for the first time. This is what I saw. Are we going to be able to get a hardcover copy of the second book?

Yes. Because I really like the hardcover. That was revealed this week. yesterday, I believe. Yes, as a Kickstarter reward. So we haven't announced the tiers yet. I know what all of the rewards will be. We do have some more really exciting announcements coming up, really pretty much leading all the way up to this launch of the Kickstarter campaign. We have more stuff we're going to be announcing. But one of the Kickstarter rewards for the 2024 campaign will be the hardcover of hunting grounds. Yes. That's awesome. Yes. That was my favorite thing I got

from the Kickstarter last year was to be honest, was I really liked getting that hardcover book. It's crazy to think that is already almost upon us. That's what next month? Yeah, February 1st, the live launch stream party will be launching at 7 p.m. EST, which is the same time that the campaign itself goes live, I believe. If you follow the link in any of the Small Town Monsters social accounts, except for Instagram, Instagram doesn't let me share links, but any of the other Small Town Monsters pages, just in general, like it doesn't format the link so you can click on it. It's a whole mess. But yeah, you can actually head over to the Kickstarter preview page and sign up to get an email as soon as it goes live. So you'll know the very minute that happens. And then the live stream is going to be a lot of fun, man.

We actually announced this morning our friend Lisa of Lisa's pod, Lisa Spaniadas, she's super cool. She has made some super neat custom stainless steel tumblers with just small town monster stuff on them. I think there's five or six of them. So we're going to be getting those away during Mark Maskey's trivia hour. If you've been to those live streams, Mark Masky brings, he brings those deep cut trivia questions. It really does. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

But no, that's going to be great. Well, Q&A with the Small Town Monsters crew. We're going to be running film previews. We're going to be making, possibly making some new announcements. Seth talked about this on the live stream last week. So I shouldn't get in trouble for this. But there's more stuff happening in the background at Small Town Monsters. There always is, of course.

And we may get to announce some other future projects during the Kickstarter live stream. So it's just going to be a real fun time. Yeah. I'm super, super excited. Listeners, if you enjoy, even if it's only one project that STM comes out with like maybe one YouTube series, really I love them all. But let's say pretend you only just love one YouTube series. This is the way that you can help that content to keep coming down the line is to make sure that you keep that you keep that you. You are a part of this Kickstarter and you get great rewards and you help STM continue to make content

that keeps the topic moving forward and also be introduced to a whole new generation. I think that it's not out of the realm of a reason to say that it's this generation's in search of or Monster Quest. STM is responsible for a lot of the newer generation coming up being introduced to things like Bigfoot dog band through all the content that you guys are putting on everywhere like YouTube, TikTok, Tubey now. It's all over the place. So hats off to you guys.

Oh, thanks, man. Thank you. I was a fan long before I met. And if you go back to the very first interview I did with you, I probably spent 10 minutes talking about how great I think Small Town Monsters is. Now, to get to actually be a part of that and say we instead of them. But when I'm talking about this stuff, it's a rush, dude. So, no, thank you.

How is that experience, Ben? and being able to be on the inside. I know that it was interesting for me. I used to be a big-time Apple fanboy, and then I worked for the company for about six years. How is that being able to be on the inside? I've made this analogy before, and I think it's still apt.

The first time I got invited to go on a small-town monster shoot, or really when I got invited, or I shouldn't say invited, that's a weird word to use in this context. But when I got offered the opportunity to write a book with Small Town Monsters Publishing, I felt like a stormtrooper cosplayer who had been invited to the Skywalker Ranch

to sit down with Dave Faloni and George Lucas and Mark Hamill and John Favro and Kathleen Kennedy and just talk about stuff that we could make for Star Wars. That was what I equated to. Then this year, George Lucas called me back and was like, that was great. Do you want to work for us and do that stuff all the time? And I said, yes.

That's the comparison I would make. But no, it's been awesome, dude. Anybody that's ever talked to Seth or Heather or anybody over at STM knows they're great people. They're very authentic. And it's a pleasure to work with everybody. It's great, dude. Like I think it's been fantastic. I'm doing stuff for my job that I would be doing on my own time for free.

I can't think of many more things than that to ask out of a gig. Absolutely. I'm, I for one, am very excited for when the Land Between the Lakes book, comes out because you had asked me some questions in prep for this book as well. And the questions that you asked me, I was like, I'd never really thought of that before. And I'm really interested to see where he takes that. Thank you for that. I'm curious to see where you take it. It's going to be fun, man. Yeah. Like, same with Dogman Triangle. Shannon LaGro, of course, was along for this one. So she brings a lot of insight to the table that I'm just not capable of because sometimes you need an outside

perspective on stuff. It's going to be fun. It's going to be a fun exploration. That might be the wrong word to use. I hope that it will be a well-informed and well-researched exploration. But yeah, no, it's going to be fun. That's awesome. Dude, Aaron, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you again.

I'm looking forward to hopefully it sounds like you will be at Monster Fest too, I would imagine. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I will hope to see you there. But can you remind my listeners how they can keep up to date best with what you are doing? Yeah, absolutely. So I manage the Small Town Monster's social media accounts. And most of the stuff I do right now is posted over there once it's fit for public consumption. Definitely check that out. The Wednesday night, STM live streams are over on the Small Town Monsters YouTube channel. We take audience questions. We try to do as much interaction as possible. So come hang out with us. over there. My personal Instagram for this stuff is, hey, underscore strangeness. It's chilling right now. It's there, but it's not often. It's not updated as often as it used to be. But those are the places I hang out. Yeah. What if people have a dogman encounter or sighting and they would like to share it with you? What would be the best way to contact you? Oh, yeah. There are a couple,

probably the best way would be my personal Instagram. So hey, underscore strangeness, shoot me a DM. If I don't get back to you right away, maybe just comment on something and be like I sent you a DM. You can contact us anybody at Smalltown Monsters through the Small Town Monsters social media. We do have an email address. Contact us at Smalltown Monsters.com just for any general questions. I've had a couple people reach out through that email address that had encounters that they wanted to share. You're welcome to do that as well. But yeah, Small Town Monsters is on all the social media platforms. So whichever one you prefer to use, you're welcome to hit us up over there. Awesome. Thanks again for coming on, Aaron.

Thank you, man. It's been an honor. Here at Bigfoot Society, our goal is to provide a platform for those that have encountered Bigfoot to share their encounter in a safe environment. But we need to hear your story. If you've experienced something that you just can explain, please send me an email at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. Then we can start the conversation. I know a lot of you. have not shared your encounter at all. It's been 20 years, and it's time that you get this off your chest, and then you can get some well-deserved rest, because I know you haven't been sleeping.

I understand what you're going through, and I appreciate every one of you listening. Wellness, longevity, health as a lifestyle. Every week, a new trend explodes across the media landscape, and depending on who's talking, it's either a miracle breakthrough or just expensive hype dressed up as science. Enter Kara Swisher.

She's here to cut through the noise with her signature edge, sharp, skeptical, and allergic to nonsense. Don't miss the CNN original series Kara Swisher wants to live forever, an essential, smart, and genuinely entertaining guide to the booming longevity industry. Because let's be real. The non-stop stream of wellness promises,

AI-driven health claims, an expensive tech with sometimes dubious benefits isn't slowing down. Kara digs into what actually works and what it really costs. From access gaps to tradeoffs most people would rather ignore. We're all getting older, that part's inevitable. The choices that come with it? Not so simple. You might as well understand what you're buying into.

Say 40% for a limited time. Get started at CNN.com slash subscribe. Terms apply. Kara Swisher wants to live forever. is now streaming with a CNN subscription. Wellness looks different at every stage. The right support makes all the difference. Elevate daily wellness with vital proteins advanced collagen

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the eruption dolorousa with ampollosos with ampollos years, making that even the tasks more simple

are all a real realto. No, learn about the Culebrilla to the Culebril to the

doctor or pharmaceutical, patrocinated for GSC. Wellness, longevity, health as a lifestyle. Every week a new trend explodes across the media landscape. And depending on who's talking, it's either a miracle breakthrough or just expensive hype dressed up as science. Enter Kara Swisher. She's here to cut through the noise with her signature edge, sharp, skeptical, and allergic to nonsense. Don't miss the CNN original series Kara Swisher wants to live forever, an essential, smart, and jingering.

genuinely entertaining guide to the booming longevity industry. Because let's be real, the nonstop stream of wellness promises, AI-driven health claims, and expensive tech with sometimes dubious benefits isn't slowing down. Kara digs into what actually works and what it really costs, from access gaps to tradeoffs most people would rather ignore. We're all getting older, that part's inevitable. The choices that come with it? Not so simple. You might as well understand what you're buying into. Save 40% for a limited time. Get started at CNN.com slash subscribe. Terms apply. Kara Swisher wants to live forever. New series now streaming with a CNN subscription. Wellness looks different at every stage. The right support makes all the difference. Shake up your

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I see the eruption dolorousa with, with ampollies duros semans, making that even the more simple are all

a real real a lot of a clobrilla to the way to talk about your doctor or

pharmaceutical for GSK Wellness, longevity, health as a lifestyle. Every week a new trend

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The non-stop stream of wellness promises, AI-driven health claims, and expensive tech with sometimes dubious benefits isn't slowing down. Kara digs into what actually works and what it really costs. From access gaps to tradeoffs most people would rather ignore. We're all getting older, that part's inevitable. The choices that come with it? Not so simple. You might as well understand what you're buying into.

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about the question. Talked on your doctor or pharmaceutical, patrocinated by GSK. When I got to the 50,

I've learned some things, like the value of the family, the importance of the work, and that the 99% of the people

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