Bigfoot Society - Eastern Washington Bigfoot and Idaho Sasquatch tales | BFRO Investigator | Kevin Llewellyn

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Today's episode is a fun chat with a BFRO Investigator who is all over the PNW as you can see in his bio. Kevin shares stories from his years of investigations and expeditions. You're going to love this episode!About BFRO Investigator Kevin Llewellyn (from bfro.net):Kevin has camped, fished and hunted in Eastern Washington all his life. His interest in Sasquatch began when he was 10 years old and saw Roger Patterson present "the" film. He lives in Eastern Washington. Recently retired, he was a veterinarian since 1984, after graduating from Washington State University. He attended Washington BFRO expeditions in 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017 and 2019. Oregon in 2015 and 2018, Montana in 2017 and 2018. He was co-leader of N.E. Washington 2019, Washington 2020, 2021 #1 & #2, and Montana 2020, 2021expeditions.Resources:JOIN THE PATREON TO SEE THE VIDEO VERSION OF THIS INTERVIEW! www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyBook:Incessantly Bigfooting by Kevin Llewellyn:https://amzn.to/3E7FpmC (affiliate link supporting Bigfoot Society)_______Join the only Facebook group for Van Meter Visitor fans - “Van Meter Visitor Believers” - See you there!https://www.facebook.com/groups/vanmetervisitorbelievers/?ref=shareFOR MORE INFO ON THE VAN METER VISITOR FESTIVAL:https://www.facebook.com/vanmetervisitorfestival/_______Join us over on Patreon! Get access to extra audio content, exclusive merch like a membership card and stickers, watch me interview guests weekly live on video, a Patron-only Discord and more.https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyPick up a Bigfoot Society shirt to rep the podcast!https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietyTune in for new episodes of Bigfoot Society!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7QIG: https://www.instagram.com/bigfootsociety/Full links: https://bit.ly/bigfootlinks

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managed to stop and he's skidding because it's not quite, you know, and grappling. And literally for about a second and a half, they just stood there because they don't know where to go and you tell him panicking. You know, like, with nothing, their faces like switching. Welcome back to Bigfoot Society, a podcast where we focus on cryptids, the strange, and the unexplained of this world. If you've got a story or something weird to share, send an email over to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. And if you'd like to support this show, head on over to patreon.com forward slash the Bigfoot

Society. And now on with the show. All right, Bigfoot Society. We've got the pleasure of talking to Mr. Kevin O'Ewellyn from the Spokane, Washington area. Bigfoot are out there. How's it going today, Kevin? Oh, great, great. Lots to talk about.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm a lifelong Bigfoot enthusiast. But I've lived in this area all my life. And I graduated from Washington State University College of Veterinary Medicine. And I was a veterinarian for 35 years. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I recently retired, though, and so that means more time to get out there in the woods.

And as a veterinarian, I like to approach things from a biology, scientific angle, an approach, approach things first that way. But what got me started or got my interest in Bigfoot was at the age of 10 years, I saw Roger Patterson present in person. That's so cool. The Patterson Gimlin film here in Spokane. And that night I got his autograph. Wow. Later, I signed up for his bulletins. I sometimes refer to him as newsletters.

But he sent out, yeah, about three a year. And I had seven original bulletins from him that I kept all through my life. Man. And just recently, I thought, you know, I need to do. something with this history. I mean, I had my original membership certificate. That's so cool. It came with these bulletins and such. And so all this, like you say, originally from Roger Patterson, and I recently donated them to the North American Bigfoot Center in Boring, yeah, Boring, Oregon, Cliff Berrickman's. Yeah, Big Center song. That's one of the big takeaways I had from your book incessantly Bigfoot.

that you can get, which is a really well-written book. It's very interesting. But I like how in that book, you actually have quotes from Patterson's bulletins kind of interspersed through the chapters, which is really cool being able to read, you know, some parts of those bulletins that Roger Patterson would send out. So you were a very young individual, I would imagine, when you, when you saw Patterson present that film. Do you remember anything, you know, anything that struck you, you know, being able to see him present,

like what came across to you as how he was as a person or anything like that? Yeah, I still remember these guys on stage in cowboy boots. Wow. Yeah, I still remember that. And then I remember the film coming on and, you know, on a big screen like that in the Spokane Coloss. see them and my mind was just, you know, like, look at that animal. Look at that move. That's an animal. That's not a person in a suit. Wow. Yeah. And I still, yeah, that just, you know, and that's just been with me all my life was that that was my first thoughts. That's an animal. What approximate

year was that, would you say? It would have been that I can't remember the month. And I, you know, And I wish I would have had, I don't know if they gave out any kind of official tickets or anything. I wish he would have had an original ticket. Oh, that would have been cool. Yeah, that would have been something too to go along with getting his autograph and that. But anyway, you know, he did this tour. So he actually, he was down in Portland and Salem, Oregon. Oh, wow.

He was in Idaho. I can't remember all those different places. Was he in Missoula, Montana? And so he did this tour before going to Vancouver, British. Columbia. And that's where all the primatologists, all the scientific people gathered to watch the film was in Vancouver, British Columbia. Oh, interesting. Okay. That's really cool. So this probably take place a few years after 67 then? Oh, just actually months. Oh, it was months after really? And when I signed up for his bulletins, my original

membership certificate, it was dated like March of 69. Oh, wow. So, yeah. So he was doing, he was all involved after, of course, October of 67. Yeah. And of course, he was all involved, those next several months and that next year with, you know, the film and everybody analyzing the film. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And then he, yeah. And then he got his Bigfoot Association, his research association, going and put out, like I say, put out these newsletters. And $6 a year back then. And so that's awesome. I signed up the first of the first of 1969. Then I signed up for it. It really was the original Bigfoot Patreon.

You know, Patterson's Club. That's amazing. It costs and everything. You were talking about, you know, the quotes and that and the things that he wrote in those newsletters. He, his thinking was, I mean, we're still doing the same things now or things now that he was wanting to do and doing back then. His thinking was far ahead. And yeah, he was. So wild.

Yeah, he knew Bigfoot was. was Bob Gamelin on stage during that as well? No. That's just my lack of information. Oh, okay. Yeah. If you go check with the history or follow the history, you know, there was a separation there.

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. So some other gentlemen that were involved.

There were some other. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. All right. Fair enough. Wow. The cool thing that you mentioned, you've already mentioned it, but people

can go to the North American Bigfoot Center and they can see your stuff that you donated in, I believe it was 2011. Cliff has that up on, you know, people can actually see it. And he took a cast, made a copy of one of your Bigfoot cast as well, right? Yeah, I had a sighting and I was fortunate enough to have a track there then. And I got a cow. I was on the hillside where it went over the embankment from the Forest Service Road, the logging road. And there on the hillside was this track. And we walked up to it. And the first thing that I know, there was a big toe. But then also the first, almost what caught my attention more was there was this like little toe that was angled out. And it had pushed, it had slid and pushed up dirt in front of the toes. And I always try to

take pictures of any possible track that I find and and and not just one picture from above. We, we see that all the time, right? Everybody wants to take a picture from above. They put their boot by it. But due to light angles, you should take five pictures of each track from the front, from the back, from each side, and from above. And so I walked up to it and was going to start taking pictures. And I actually slipped on the hillside and slid on my head.

Wow. And so I just, you know, yeah, so I'm like, forget the pictures. I need to try to cast this thing. And I, the cast material was starting to run downhill. Of course. I was going to ask. Yeah, I was panicking. Oh, man.

I was like, oh, no, this isn't going to, this isn't going to work. But the cast did turn out very well. And Cliff Berwickman, yeah, made copies of it. And he has the, then a copy. I have the original, but he has a copy on. display at the North American Bigfoot Center. And so it, it, it, um, on the, you know how these forest service roads, these logging roads are cut into the hillsides.

And so on the left was this, the hillside going up. And on my right then was the drop off going downhill. And there was this boulder that was like three and a half feet high. And I measured later, approximately three and a half feet high, three and a half feet wide, extended up the road for four and a half feet high. feet and I look up, come around this corner and I look up ahead and I see black between this boulder and the hillside on the left. Oh, wow. But I, you know, but there's black decaying wood all over the forest. So I didn't think anything of it, you know. And so, but I kept approaching

this boulder and the road had to curve around it just a little bit. And it was really narrow at that spot. So my focus went to the, you know, like, okay, I got to creep around this boulder, you know. Sure. Yeah. And and paying attention to how the road went there just wide enough to get around it. And all of a sudden, this figure leaped out in front of the boulder. Yeah. And so I did not see a face. This was side view, but it was in the air. It leaped. And yeah. And so, and there was no nose. no ears, you know, it was black, short hair or bare-length hair. And some people may say, you know, well, you saw a bear. But it was, it was, there was no nose. There were no front legs. There were no arms out. Even though it reminded me of like, if I was looking from the side view at a quarter, at a linebacker, lunging to tackle a quarterback. Okay. Wow. So this is, yeah. So if that gives you an idea, then. And so, and it was about the size of a football player like that, about the size of like a linebacker. And so like I say, no arms even stretched out. And what really confused me, what I really had to process for a while was there was these things sticking up. And it was like, it's like a wingtip. It reminded, you know, your mind goes to common things that you see. And so it's like,

a raven wing, a crow, a wingtip? What is this? Well, after a while, I realized its arms were back along its sides and its hand was sticking up then, and it's the fingers that I saw sticking up. See, picture that? I've seen that imagery in other places, too. I can't remember where, but that sounds so familiar. Wow. Yeah. And if it was a bear, So then so then my great friend and fellow investigator and his wife were in their car behind me. And they, and this road was getting overgrown and it even dead ended back up, you know, whatever, a couple of miles later. But anyway, the boughs were growing into the road, you know, and of course my truck gets scratched up. I don't know.

When I come back from trips, I don't know what's more scratched up, me or my truck, you know. And so, but anyway, there were boughs sticking out on the road and it landed on the edge of the road before going down over the embankment on my right side. And I could see this like a black butt, you know, part of the body. Yeah. And but there were boughs sticking out. And so anyway, it went over the embankment. We got out. It came to a stop.

We got out. And my friend says, well, look, it almost was like there's two impressions here. Like maybe we're two feet landed. And then we looked over the, we looked, yeah, looked over the embankment. And there was this little clear area right there. You know, he didn't go into the timber. There was a little bit of an open spot on this hillside. And that's where it's like when I'm like, well, look, you know, there's like there's something there.

There's like a track, a skid mark. You know, and then even further down below that was a true skid mark. You know, no track, just a slide, a skid. So if it was a bear, there should be, should have been four. tracks, four slide marks, four legs. This was like something on two legs. Wow. So like I say, so then, then we got, I got the cast that turned out well and it's, it's good to practice casting, you know, anything. I've got some casts of cougar tracks that show the claws. Okay. Cool. So, yeah. So, you know, when you're out there, you know, hey, make a cast of whatever.

Bear track, a cougar track, just practice. What material do you find best works for you? I love the dental stone. Okay. I haven't heard that yet. Interesting. Yeah. It's even a little bit, you know, all the chemical.

I don't know all the chemistry. Sure. The materials, but it's maybe even a little better than the hydrocal. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, that one comes up a lot when I talk to. to researchers.

So a few follow-up questions on that. So you were able to, were you able to get a really good luck in at the, the, the Bigfoot's face? No, because it was, it was sideways.

Gotcha, gotcha, okay. Yeah, it went sideways. And so it was like, and before we turned, we were on another Forest Service road,

and then we turned up this one, and we were climbing up there a little bit. And, but down where we turned, there was a couple elk. They weren't spooky. They weren't running. They were just standing there.

And we drove by him. So, you know, I was a big foot out to following the elk or seeing where they were at or chasing them. You know, maybe, who knows? Or maybe one didn't have anything to do with the other. But then did it hear us coming up the road? And it was like, oh. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to jump behind this or I'm going to get down behind this boulder. Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel... Uh-huh, and more. More? Huh, I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age.

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Prices in participation vary. And so, yeah, and so it was trying to hide. And then as we kept approaching, I was getting closer and closer. And, you know, I can't tell you exactly the distance, but because I was moving, and I can't even tell you how fast I was going. I don't know if I was doing five miles an hour,

10, 15 miles an hour. And I'm getting closer to this. Boulder and then it was like, and then it was like, oh, you know, I got to get out of here. Wow. I was trying to hide if it was trying to hide behind that border. So how often, you know, probably in my opinion, all the time, do they get down on all fours to hide? Do they get down on the brush?

Do they stand behind a tree and let us walk right by? They remain motionless. They can blend in with the terrain. That's wild. And just, yeah. So one thing that Roger Patterson said too in those bulletins of his was that he believed that, yeah, they can completely elude us if they so desire. Sure. I believe that as well.

And maybe for a few different reasons that, you know, science doesn't fully understand yet. Who knows? But that sighting is, that's an incredible story. Have there been other Bigfoot reports evidence found in that same area? Yeah, great question because actually I do travel around the Pacific Northwest. Yeah, exactly. And I go check out areas where there have been reports. And so this area, there was, I did a report, you know, interviewed somebody.

It was a class B, a strong class B, which is not a sighting, not, you know, So I did a strong Class B in that area. And then my friend and I had been there the summer before. And we had some stuff that we heard. And so then we decided to go back and we decided to go a little bit further north. And then that's when we were going into this area. Okay. Yeah.

Very cool. Let's rewind a little bit. Was there a, you know, you had the probably super influential, you know, watching the copy of the film or maybe even the original film presented by Roger Patterson a few months after the 67 sighting, roughly about, I mean, it's a 55th anniversary. Was there a certain point, though, after that in your life where, you know, you had something that really like clicked it in like, okay, I want to. to super look for Bigfoot now, or was it that initial, you know, seeing the film that just set you on this path through your entire life? Oh, well, I kept, you know, of course, my interest then was sky high. And so, and our local newspaper would carry articles now and then back then, you know, back then. And, and so I would cut those out. I kept my ear, yeah, and I just kept my ears open for

any reports about somebody's seen a big foot. And of course, back then, there was no social media. Right. Yeah. And so, yeah, with my age that I'm at now. And so, but anyway, back then, yeah, I just had to, you know, things came through the grapevine and just like, you know, well, did you hear? There was a sighting, you know, and I'm like, where? You know, where in northeast Washington, you know, and that? What time of day was it? and things like that. And so just kind of, you know, in the memory banks, things would go. And so, yeah, I just, and my dad was an avid outdoorsman. You know, he had me out there in the woods when I, you know, could barely keep up with them. Sure. Yeah.

And so, but, and of course, he would say, you know, I was like, well, I've hunted all over, you know, eastern Washington and this and that. I don't believe in Bigfoot. I don't think it's out there, you know. But when I would be out there, I just kept my eyes and ears open and just in case. Nice. Yeah. A few questions in my mind right now. Just randomly I want to ask you because it sounds like you've been involved with Bigfooting for a long time.

A period of Bigfoot history that I think is really interesting. It's probably because of my age as well. What was it like researching Bigfoot in the 1990s? I actually I heard my first Ohio Howl, you know, around. Oh, really? Yeah, before it was even called Ohio Howell. Wow. I believe it was nicknamed, you know, Ohio Howl in 1985 then.

But so, but I had heard things like that before I'd been paralleled, you know, the big foot behavior of paralleling and and I you know and things like that and if if I would have known back then what I know now or what I've developed now my approach that I have now if I would have had that back then you know I could have maybe had even more encounters or heard more things then too and so because now I approach things that, you know, I want to just have them be curious of what I'm doing. I want to then have them feel comfortable of what I'm doing out there and going camping and such. And I want, I want them to come into camp or hang around camp. I want to learn, you know, what is attracting them?

What are they interested in? If they come into camp, what are they doing? What's attracting them? You know, are they going to play with a camp stove or what, you know, anything. It's like, I want to know. And I want them to come back, you know, then feel comfortable to come back the next nights. And we've had those then, I've been fortunate to have a lot of different encounters and experiences. And we've actually had that a number of times where they have come into camp, you know, night after night after we go into their tents. and I do believe that they know what the sound of a tent zipper means. You know, they see us come in.

You know, I know, I know. Here we go. Yeah, here we go. Well, no, but we're talking about, you know, about these things like this, crazy things like tent zipper. Well, don't you think they've watched us go in and out of our tents all the time? So this is, I reacted that way because there's an experience I had in the expedition where I captured some audio.

at 3.45 in the morning in Iowa, and it's regarding a zipper. And it was no one in camp that actually manned the zipper. Have you ever had experiences where you've had a big foot, you know, mess around with a zipper or anything like that? I've had my tent shaken multiple times. I've had rubbing on the vestibule of my tent, you know, and things like that. And then one time when we had them, excuse me, when we had them coming in to camp, it was at the, I can't remember the second or third night. And my one friend and fellow investigator, her tent was, you know, whatever, 30 feet away from mine. Sure.

Yeah, just over from my. And anyway, I had gone into my tent, you know, get my boots off and everything like that. I'm standing over my sleeping bag, not even in there. yet. And I hear her say, hello. Oh, no. And they, there was rubbing on two sides of her tent. And she had this, this, it wasn't, she had some kind of this fly. It wasn't really her vestibule, but there was like a zipper there on the fly of the tent. And she heard that zipper go up, start to go. And that's when she, and that's when she said, hello. And, and I'm standing there over my sleep. And I'm standing there over my sleeping back and I'm like what already I'm not even I'm not even in the sack yet and it's like and she and they're

already they've already come into camp like say so you holy mackerel you explain that to me rubbing on two side of that it's not a bear pushing its nose into the side of the tent or anything like that you know so I often will say to people okay you explain that to me rubbing on two sides of her tent she hears a zipper move and that's wow dude that's wild yeah you know and so yeah and you know that's what we want that's what i want that you know i want them to feel comfortable to come into camp you know like that night after night have experiences like i have other people you know that get have experiences and and then like saying i'm learning you know then yeah what are they doing what are they attracted to i want to learn about their behavior

When I read a report, when I interview somebody or read any report, talk to somebody, I'm like, well, what was the behavior of the Bigfoot? What was the big foot doing? What were the people doing? You know, somebody will say, well, we just finished cooking dinner, you know, over the campfire. Sure. And I'm like, well, what was for dinner? Yeah.

What were you cooking? Yeah. What was the smell? have you found you know in your many different expeditions have you found that there are certain things you were doing in camp maybe there was you know uh you know something you were always doing that seemed to attract them in or was it just mainly random yeah yeah okay just random stuff but but also my approach part of my approach is that if i have to be their entertainment Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, so I'm not a musician, but I do carry a wooden flute, Native American. Oh, cool.

Wooden flute with me, harmonica. All right. You know, so, and so, yeah, I'll try those. Yeah, I've heard of, you know, I have a few friends, researchers, you know, Ron Mann-Reeds used a didger-do before. Tate Hieronymus used bass guitar before. There's all sorts of wild things that, you know, it's getting their attention enough to have them come in. So I totally get what you're saying.

What do you remember, was there a point, you know, looking back over the years where you finally were, you know, there's no social media, there's no internet. Do you remember the point where you were able to finally find, you're like-minded, you found your first other Bigfoot researcher, and it wasn't just you doing stuff by yourself anymore. Or did you have people with you from the very get-go? I've been, well, I've been fortunate that virtually all of my family are. Oh, wow.

Yeah, Bigfoot enthusiasts. That's huge. So, I mean, to, you know, just, yeah, to just, you know, have family there in camp that's like, you know, yeah, we hear something, you know, and then, you know, everybody questions, could, you know, could that have been a Bigfoot or, or not, you know? And, and so, yeah, that, and then that brings me to a couple things, too. So, yeah, I've been fortunate, like, say, to be with family members and. Sure. Yeah. But then then that brings me to a couple points also that, you know, when, when you're out there camping and you hear something, it's like, I like to have two or more

bigfoot related things vocalizations or whatever or you know so so so yeah you hear a howl in the woods well there's lots of things that howl in the woods so can you give me some more something else did you hear howls wood knocks did you go look for tracks the next day did you find sure yeah possible tracks you know things like that and and then also i always like to to say and keep in mind um that almost all of the time, it's going to be something else other than Bigfoot. But sometimes it can't be anything else except Bigfoot. So if you have that, if I have that in my mind, then even if I see a track, rather than like, whoa, there's a Bigfoot track.

No, I want to, and the first thing in my mind is I want to rule out, is that a bare double step track? Exactly. Is that bear? Yeah, that bear, you know. And, you know, one time my friend and fellow investigator, we studied this track along a little tiny stream. And I don't know how long we studied that thing, you know. And I was about ready to go.

We couldn't tell if it was a bare double step or Bigfoot. I was about ready to go back to the truck and get the casting material when we'd been there for so long that the light angle changed. And I mentioned, you know, light angles looking at track. tracks. And it's like the light angle changed. And all of a sudden we started to see something. And I'm like, oh, that could be a claw, a bare claw. You know, like that's like, no, this looks like a bare double step. Okay. So, but I, like I say, you know, that's why I like to get down on my knees and have my face right over a track. I like to, you know, you need to look at it from different angles. Let's go, girls

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You know, yeah, get down on your knees, look at it from the left, from the right, you know, this and that. And so, yeah, we have pictures all over social media, but pictures just don't do it, do them justice. You know, the tracks. A lot of times there's just one picture, you know, and I wasn't there. I didn't see what somebody else was, how they were examining a track or anything like that. So, yeah, I just don't comment on like pictures like that. Gotcha. Yeah.

You know, like I say, I wasn't there. And so many times because of the light angles and a picture just doesn't do it justice. So you're going. So you're going on, you know, you have your family expeditions over the years where you, you know, you're pretty much going hunting or you're going camping with your family but also looking for Bigfoot at the same time. It's kind of how that sounds like to me. But also you've been involved with many actual BFRO expeditions, correct? Yeah, I've organized and yeah. Approximately, how many of those do you think you've been involved with over the years?

I believe I've co-led being, you know, like been a co-leader. I like to have a co-leader. Yeah. And I believe seven that I've officially. Yeah. But then I've been on others, though, too. Okay. Oh, got you.

Yeah. But just as, yeah, just as a leader, a co-leader. Interesting. Are there any of those that stand out in your memories where you're like, wow, we had some really crazy stuff happen on that expedition that you could share? Oh, the very first one that I went on. Okay. And I have this in my book that I thought, I'd been, like I say,

had been a while that I thought about doing something with that history that I had, that Roger Patterson history and that. And so, and then I wanted to kind of get the word out about that. And so I wrote that in this little book that I did incessantly big footing. And I also, then when you read the book, then my sense of humor takes over. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, so there will be parts.

There will be parts in there then that you're going to get some chocolate. That's what I want. And so anyway, like, say, getting that history out there. So going back, so what was your question again? Thinking over the years of the different expeditions, you've either co-led or been a member of any of that standout that were wild. In the very first, yeah, very first BFRO expedition that I went on. And I wrote about that in the incessantly big footing.

There was an encounter I was involved with along with two other people. And I almost consider it more rare than a sighting or as rare than a sighting. Because we listened to this deer on the hillside. right after dark, and we could follow it because it was blowing and blowing. And like I say, you'll have to check it out in the book because I have it all detailed. Yeah, when I got back to camp, my short-term memory was just there. And I took notes. I wrote down, then what happened, the sequence of events.

And so have that in my Bigfoot journal. and so that that I put in the book is right out of my notes, right out of my awesome journal. Okay. And so it basically to kind of sum up the story, though, without going into a ton of details that was in there, it looked like we actually interrupted a deer hunt that they were doing. Wow. Yeah.

That, yeah. Like say, you just have to go through the details and everything. before and then even the next morning when we went to look for tracks and that on that hillside and yeah it it was like there was we think there was four of them uh three at the minimum that actually had like a deer drive a deer ambush went go on that that's intense i mean you can only imagine like you probably wouldn't want to step in front of a few big foot as they're trying to hunt some deer that they might not respond kindly to that. So that's, I don't know how I would react in that situation.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's been people, witnesses that have seen, you know, Bigfoot carrying a deer. Oh, sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

You know, and things like that. Yeah. But it's like we just, we had this thing unfold and it was like, you know, it's like they were hunting this thing. It's like they had it corralled on the hillside. Wow. Yeah. When we got back to camp, and the deer did not, we did not hear the deer.

The deer escaped. Okay. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah. So the deer, because of what we started doing, and then that messed things up. And so the deer did get away. And one lady back at camp said, oh, I'm glad the deer got away. And so, you know, but yeah.

That's funny. Yeah. Do you, when you go out on an expedition over the years, have you had a recorder out and been capturing audio? Yes. Okay. Have you captured any cool stuff on audio? Well, all kinds of things. I mean, everything from meowing, bobcats.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure. So, you know, and the audio really helps. I mean, when you're awakened in the middle of the night and, you know, and it sure sounds like there's something whooping, there's woo-oos, stuff. But I review my audio and it's like, no, those were owls. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So the audio really helps you confirm. And it helps you rule out things then. And it helps you confirm what you did here. And so the audio was valuable that way. The, I had something pop in my mind an example. Oh, the one time they had heard some other people had heard some wood knocks. Okay. And I can't remember if they had heard three or four.

There was answering back and forth. So when I checked my audio and listening to it closely, I counted off in the distance then too. were knocks, I counted 11. Wow. Yeah. So it can help you. So yeah, it's like, okay, yeah, somebody in camp heard like three wood knocks or

three or four. You go to your audio and wow, I counted 11. That's crazy. Yeah. So, yeah, the audio is valuable. I'm not a believer much in, I use them, but I'm not really have much confidence with trail cameras. I believe that they can, they know that they're there.

They can see them. I hear that a lot where that seems to be the consensus where unless you could get a non-electronic trail cam, good luck. Yeah, they just, something is given off and it wigs them out. I don't know. Yeah. Something I wanted to talk to you about that I found interesting is you are actually involved with the Jack Osborne and Jason Mews, Bigfoot special on Discovery Plus.

How did walk me through? How did that come about? Did you just get randomly contacted or how was that? Well, because I have published reports through the BFRO. So, yeah, so those reports are out there to the public, you know, and yeah, they read the reports of what's gone on in the. passed in an area. And so, yeah, I was contacted and other investigators too. But, but yeah, I was on there. My part was a campfire scene, a campfire, sit down with Jack Osborne and Jason Mews.

And they everything, everybody was a blast of those two and the entire crew. And so everybody was great. And it was filmed in North Idaho. Okay. Yeah. And so you'll get a glimpse of beautiful North Idaho. And yeah, it was great. So it's streaming on Discovery Plus. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. Have you been involved with any other media like that over the years? Not really. Not too much. Okay.

No, that way. All right. Man, this has been a. extremely fun chat. I've talked to a few other investigators that have been on BFRO chat, or BFRO expeditions. And it's always fun. Let's say you have someone new coming to the expedition or like they're a newer investigator, right? Are there certain things that like you want to make sure that they know before they come in with the rest of,

of the investigators on the expedition. Well, yeah, everybody has their own approach, you know, doing things. And if it's, if it's working for you, keep doing what you're doing. You know, but so, you know, every leader or, you know, every expedition is going to have maybe a little different angle, different approach, you know, too. But like you say, my approach then is to get them, the new, people then too is get them thinking about and share with them things to do to get yeah to bring up the curiosity of bigfoot um you know that that if they're in the area at all they hear you they hear

us coming into the area they they know we're there yeah unless they're you know 30 miles away But so, yeah, if they're around, we want to, you know, encourage encounters and get some experiences for people. And like I say, I encourage them to think out of the box of different things to try and do and get that curiosity going. So. Very nice. Have you, over the years, you know, been out in the woods looking for Bigfoot and investigating. Have you ever run into anything that you couldn't explain, but you're pretty sure it wasn't Bigfoot related? Any like weird stuff happen when you're out in the woods.

It was kind of like, I don't know what's going on here. Yeah. You mean, oh, you mean like. I mean, it's a pretty open-ended question, Kevin. So it's wherever you want to take it. Yeah. Okay. You mean like lights? Yeah, yeah. Some people bring up lights anything. It's like, that's weird. I'm not sure what's, like, you know.

I've seen flashes of lights go through the forest. One time, I believe it was like snow lightning because, yeah, because like there was the front coming in and like half hour later, an hour later started snowing on us. So I believe that one time that, like I say, it was snow lightning. That if that's what they call it.

But I've seen flashes of light through the woods. I've seen the orbs, balls of light too. I've had one time I had strange lights go across the wall of my tent. Wow. And so that's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So, yeah. And I, and I, you know, of course, some people, yeah, try to associate these things with Bigfoot, you know, and that. And I'm just like, you know, and the one time that I had the lights on my tent wall, I had my pop-up shade canopy out in front of my tent. And so not only the roof, but I also had a shade wall on it too. And I had rubbing on the shade wall.

and tapping on the roof of the shade canopy before these lights occurred. And, yeah. So I, so, you know, so it's like, okay, could that have been a bigfoot? Was, is this bigfoot behavior or a big foot encounter? But then these lights. And so these things that I've, that I've seen like that, I, it's, I just leave it as a mystery. I'm not going to try to explain it, you know, what was going on, you know, but I do try to do, you know, recreations. And I try, yeah, and that's important too, if you can.

And like I say, even if you, well, first of all, let me say with the lights, yeah, I use, you know, different kind of flashlights, headlamps, a couple different models of headlamps and things like, and I was. there was some kind of a flashlight or somebody in camp. Of course, you asked around the next morning, you know, were you shining a flashlight? Right, right. And so you investigate and follow up, do things like I do recreation. And so even like it's not recreating, seeing a Bigfoot, but like this summer too, there was three of us in the morning. We were hiking this trail and not a trail that's a Forest Service.

trail that has a trailhead and the parking spots, you know, at the start of it. We were back in the mountains on this trail and we were paralleled. We had this paralleling. Yeah. So, you know, so I say, well, recreate it. Well, how do you recreate a paralleling experience? Well, we went out the same time the next morning. Let's go, girls. You know what I love about, Andy? Everything. Well, yeah, but it's as little as 20 bucks a month. Oh, well, the little, Pink Pill has always been a pretty big deal. A really big deal. I'd call that a good investment.

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Eligible patients only restrictions apply. It said everything happens for a reason, but maybe everything happens for a recess. Take noise-canceling headphones. Do they block hearing to heighten? Taste? Mmm. That sound seems to show. Everything happens for a recess.

Same weather conditions, same thing, and there was no sounds. There was none of the branch breaks, twigsnaps, the thumping that happened the first morning. Wow. Yeah. So if you can follow up on things like that, you know, if you see a Bigfoot, can go back and a lot of people are afraid. They don't want to, hunters will see a big foot. They don't want to go.

They give up hunting. Yeah, they don't go back in the woods for years. But if you can go back and look for tracks and things like that, you know. And if you do have the chance, if something, like say, is following you or paralleling you, you have some kind of an encounter like that, try to recreate it, go back. Okay. So like just a week ago, the hunting. hunting seasons here in Northeast Washington are in full swing.

And deer season is on. And I was out there. I was in a deer stand. And there were these dough and out in front of me. And they were just blowing and blowing and blowing. And down at the other end of the meadow, the opening, there was more blowing back at them. And the first thing, you know, that I think of is, well, okay, have they caught scent of me? Yeah.

Yeah, they're doing that. If everybody, if all your, your listeners know what the blowing that the deer do like that, that they're taking in the scent and then they, you know, expel the air out. Gotcha. So all of a sudden, then there's a wood knock behind me, followed by a light, I call it more of a tap rather than a knock. And I'm like, you know, of course, I'm watching these deer. And then I'm like, you know, what?

A knock? What, you know, what's that? Well, was it a knock? And then after that knock occurred, the deer did settle down. That's weird. Well, but everything that knocks in the forest is not a big foot, a wood knock. Could it have been a tree that was cooling down with the temperatures?

It was an hour before sunset. And so could it have been a tree that had popped or was popping? well, I was back there in that same deer stand fought for three afternoons following that. And I never heard any tree pop. That's interesting. Similar weather each day. Yeah, we've had a weather pattern here that's just been same thing, every day, warm, way above average temperatures, and until the last two days now that we've got rain. So, but yeah, I was out there.

And so that's where if you can, like I say, you know, so, yeah. That's some wild, wild stuff. Yeah. And so then try to keep investigating like that. Try to follow up, you know, like, okay, well, yeah. Was that, was that just a tree that popped? It was popping a couple times? Well, go back under the same weather conditions.

Go back the next day. And see, are you hearing, are you hearing trees do that or not? No, that's a great idea. Yeah. I like the word investigate because it implies that we're being a detective. You know, we're looking into this. We're following up on things and looking into things. There's a few questions that I always like to ask, especially people I talk to,

that are primarily focused on Bigfoot. So they're pretty straightforward too. So what do you believe that Bigfoot is? How do you describe what we're dealing with? I think they are, you know, primate, you know, and very close to us. I think they're very, very close to us. And I think they're intelligent.

and they know how to hide and escape from us, you know, to hardly be seen at all. I mean, I guess my own sighting that I had, was it trying to hide behind that boulder, thinking that we would not see it? But anyway, yeah, I do think that they, as a veterinarian, I approach things, you know, biologically. Yeah, yeah.

And everything like, yeah. And even with, of course, population, you know, people, well, how many do you think are out there? You know, and this and that. It's like, well, you know, pick a number. Who knows? Right, yeah. Nobody really knows. But we can, we can estimate.

And so biologically, though, I think it was 2017, the American scientist had an article. And these, yeah, and these scientists were trying to come up with a population number, kind of a minimum number for, well, and what they were doing, though, too, is they were doing plants and animals. But, yeah, like rare plants, how many would it take to keep that species going? And or if you're talking about some rare frog or some kind of a mammal, they came up with a number then that 5,000 would be a great number for long-term evolutionary. success. Wow. They said that 500 would probably then, you know, would maybe be enough to stop a lot of

inbreeding. So, but 5,000 would be, you know, definitely a great number for long-term success. So I look at things like that, then it's like, you know, okay, you know, here's, there's some numbers there. but when it comes to Bigfoot, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not going to say, yeah. I mean, I've heard, I've heard a number. I've heard, you know, a number like in Idaho.

You know, it's like, oh, there's, there's so many in Idaho. It's like, I think there's more than that, you know. So, yeah, and you want to, like say, you can't have a lot of inbreeding. I think a lot of sightings then, especially crossing highways and things like that, are maybe young males that are traveling. Okay. Yeah. Sure.

Migrating or traveling long miles to go find and start a family unit of their own. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of people I've talked to in where I'm from, from Iowa. They think that the primary population is, it's a migration thing going through the state, definitely. And here in the Pacific Northwest, I mean, you know, obviously they don't know where the Washington, Idaho. state line is or the Canadian, the Canadian state line. So we can't. So if you're talking about

populations, it's like, well, okay, we got to look at British Columbia. We got to look at the cascade, Washington Cascades, North East Washington, North Idaho. You know, yeah. So you got to start looking at all of that and not just saying, well, there's, yeah, there's a family unit here. There's a family unit there. It's like, you know. Has there? been a piece of evidence that has been most influential to you over the years as a, as a researcher? Well, of course, having the siting and then getting a track to go. Yeah. So it's, you know, there's two things right there. Siding and something else follow up. And we've found, I didn't find it, but it was part of the group that I was with. Some others found some hair. Okay.

Yeah, and it did not have, you know, the bone marrow type center. Exactly. Yeah, we had it checked and analyzed. And so, yeah. So anyway, yeah, things like that. Look, you know, looking for, if you see one, and we're talking about trying to have two or more things with an encounter. So if you see one, if there really is one peeking out from behind a tree looking at you, then can you go back later and look for hair?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like last year we had these couple guys where they didn't see it because it stopped behind this really large tree. And then there was a group of fir trees right around it.

But they were like bluff charged. They had this charge that charged towards, yeah, and stopped. and they said it sounded like a racehorse breathing back there. Wow. So what do we do? We go back the next morning. And so what do we want to do? We want to rule out elk.

So we were looking for elk tractals as an elk breathing, you know, or something like that. We were looking then for elk tracks right in there where it stopped. And we were combing the bark for hair. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we couldn't find anything. But that's what you want to do. You know, it's like, yeah, follow up with things like that.

And one last there, one more thing to add, too, is I always say push the record button, get video, not just pictures. We want to see. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. Okay. We want to see arms swinging. We want to see, you know, a head turn, legs moving. Okay, so no more pictures on social media, social media, video. We want video.

You want the evidence, the video evidence is what you're saying. Yeah. Not just the photos with the red circles around them. Yeah. There's a question I almost forgot to ask you. So let's say you're going to your base camp for your expedition base camp. When do you start recording to catch sounds? What's your viewpoint on that?

Well, right away. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, get an audio recorder hung out there right away. And of course, we can get into battery life and things like that. You don't have to spend a lot of money on audio recorders. I do have a couple that were fairly expensive. The wildlife acoustics audio recorders, and I can program them.

I can have them come on an hour before sunset, two hours. before sunset, I can have them run 24 hours a day. And so a lot of times I'll have them come on, you know, one or two hours before sunset and run to an hour or two hours after sunrise. But then the problem is, yeah, so then the problem is if you hear something that's 30 minutes before my audio recorder has come on, that it's programmed to come on, if you hear something 30 minutes beforehand, it's like, oh, no, I didn't have the audio going. So, but yeah, those, something like that is really nice where I can set the program or have, you know, like say, have it come on off. And then the battery life, you know, it'll go for.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Weeks then. Yeah. So. So.

So. From that, I'm, I'm gathering that there are certain times of day that are most important to make sure you're recording for potential Bigfoot sounds to happen. Yeah, not only big sounds, and then like, say, other things then, too, just during, that are out at night. You know, like say, the one time I listened to my audio and there's like, meow, meow, yeah. And it's like, what? You know, that's not what I'm listening for. It's like, oh, okay, the bobcat walked under the audio recorder. Totally.

Yeah. So, so, yeah, you know, so you, like, say, there's a lot more things. in the forest or the things that are more common in the forest than Bigfoot. So a lot of times you're going to hear something that's not Bigfoot. And so that's where then, yeah, having the audio going like that. Man, it would be cool if there would be a way to deploy an audio recorder to a place before you drive into it. So you can like get if there, you know, if there's like warning knocks or something, as you're driving into the area.

Oh, I've had that happen. Oh, really? I've pulled, you know, we, we know that there's a campsite, you know, that's been used for years and years. You know, the firing is there. And I'm going to meet my friend there or something like that. You know, it's like, okay, well, let's, we'll meet at that campsite, you know, or whatever. And I pull in there and I step out of my truck and Knox greet me. Wow.

So I've had, oh, yeah, I've had that happen, you know. So then again, I believe they're smart. They're watching places where people camp or do they have a sentry, a spy, you know, that's there that's watching different campsites. So they know when we get there, when we come in. And then it's a matter of, you know, it's like, okay, hey, you know, we mean no harm. You know, we want you to be curious of what we're doing. Yep. and try to get them like, you know, oh, what are these people doing?

You know, they're having some fun here, you know. It doesn't look like they're hunting, you know, the deer or anything like that. Yeah, it's like. That's funny. Over the years, have you been primarily focused on Bigfoot or have there been other cryptids that you've been interested in slash looked into? Is it just primarily been Bigfoot? Yeah, primarily Bigfoot. foot. I mean, I'm open to, you know, other stories and listening about things, you know.

Sure. Yeah. And, and, and maybe when I'm interviewing somebody, something will come up about some other, you know, crypted. And, and yeah, it's like, I'll listen, you know, to it and everything like that. But, but as far as, you know, yeah, like doing reports for the BFRO, you know, yeah, you know, it's big. Sure. Yeah. And I've even heard that, seen that said, you know, it's like, well, how come there's not any dog man. reports on, you know, BFRO, you know. That's the BFRO. Well, yeah. Where is the name word dog man in field research authorities? You know, it's like, yeah, I look up the North American dog man project, you know.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, I'm into Bigfoot, yeah. Okay. Have you gotten dog man reports from your areas or people that try to give you dog man stuff? Or?

I've heard, I've heard one investigator saw something. that he wasn't sure. And I've had, like I say, I've had some other, you know, I'm not going to say what they were, what the people saw, yeah. But there are, yeah, some different. Some weird stuff. Different things, yeah. Yeah, some weird stuff out there.

Yeah, a lot of mysteries. And that's what I love. That's exactly, you know, why I do this. It's try to figure out the weird, the weird mysteries of the world. and there's a lot of it is focused on, you know, Cryptids and Bigfoot, hence the name. But Kevin, it's been extremely fun and enlightening talking to you today. I want to make sure, you know, to give you the chance, if there's anything we haven't covered that you were wanting to make sure, you know, that we cover, you know, now is the chance to throw it on in or anything like that. Yeah.

I just, you know, following up with like, you know, like when I mentioned, you know, yeah, getting their attention, we're set up camp, yeah, get their attention, you know, and it's like, well, I think, too, that their eyes, their eyesight is so good, you know, they can tell are we pulling, am I pulling my walking stick out of my truck or am I pulling a rifle? Wow. Yeah. So I think they know, you know, they can tell. and so that's you know like I say everybody has their own approach but you know over the years I've been able to come up with mine my approach and I like it and I'm going to keep trying it and it's playing on their curiosity and yeah and remember yeah press the record button yeah press the record guys that's that's for sure uh Kevin awesome chat today um

Do you mind taking a few minutes reminding people how they can either keep up to date with what you're doing or, you know, I definitely want to mention your book again, all that good stuff you got going on? Yeah. It's like I say, I did write the little book. It's an easy read, a fun read. And like say, my sense of humor does take over a little later in the book. And so you should get, it should be fun to read. and I'd recommend, you know, to read it through and then read it through a second time because I think you're going to pick up on Bigfoot behaviors and things that I'm referring to,

even though I'm maybe having some fun with what I've, what has happened with myself and my friends and fellow investigators. And so I make a little fun of the technology or whatever that we're doing. But yet it's based on true stories, you know, then too. And so, but you'll have some fun with it. And, and, and I have the, the Bigfoot behaviors and, and investigating Bigfoot in there, things to do and what we were doing. And, you know, then I make fun of it a little bit.

Right. But, yeah, it's, and I do have, it's available on Amazon. I do have a second book that's about 75, 80% written. Oh, awesome. That I'm working on. Yeah. And, but I think you'll have fun with this one. The cover was a photo that I took of the sun setting behind Mount Rainier in the Washington Cascades.

So if you open up, open up the book like this, there's Mount Rainier like that. And so, yeah, have fun out there, be safe. You know, I know my dad taught me from the very beginning, hey, you know, the woods and the mountains are wonderful. They're fantastic, but they can also be dangerous. So, yep, stay safe and have fun out there. Love it. Thanks so much for coming on today. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to Bigfoot Society.

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then please consider becoming a supporter of the podcast by going to www.patech.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. Thanks for listening. Let's go, girls. You know what I love about, Addie? Everything? Well, yeah, but it's as little as 20 bucks a month. Ooh, well, the little pink pill has always been a pretty big. big deal. A really big deal. I'd call that a good investment. Che-chang.

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