Bigfoot Society - Henry Franzoni: The Lost History behind Drumming for Bigfoot and Conversations with Dahinden

Episode Date: January 2, 2023

In this episode, I talk to Henry Franzoni, musician and Bigfoot enthusiast. The following topics are covered in this chat so you won't want to miss it!Henry’s favorite Portland noodle placeCaveman ShoestoreGrowing up in New JerseyHenry’s 1993 Skookum Lake experience with Bigfoot, a UFO and the Men in Black.The Physics of BigfootFirst Nations interactions with SasquatchWorking with Peter Byrne in the Bigfoot Research Project.Interactions with Ray Crowe in his bookstore.Henry’s friendship with Renee DahindenThe Lost History of Drumming for Bigfoot.Resources:Books mentioned - Henry’s book - In the Spirit of Seatco - https://amzn.to/3VvDPl6 (affiliate link)The Oregon Bigfoot Highway - https://amzn.to/3G9QLXZ (affiliate link)Mount Shasta’s Forgotten History and Legends by D.W. Naef - https://amzn.to/3G4bZ9X (affiliate link)Movies mentioned -  A Flash of Beauty on Amazon - https://amzn.to/3vsqOhp (affiliate link)Henry’s documentary - Drumming for Bigfoot - https://tubitv.com/movies/475884/to-the-ends-of-the-earth-bigfoot-monster-mystery?start=true (titled on Tubi as To the Ends of the Earth)VHS transfer copy of Drumming for Bigfoot on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VPdOq7x8uMSasquatch Odyssey on Tubi - https://tubitv.com/movies/706373/sasquatch-odyssey-the-hunt-for-bigfoot?start=trueRead more:Towards a Resolution of the Bigfoot Phenomenon by J Glickmanhttp://www.photekimaging.com/Support/rptcol2.pdfTo hear the raw audio and uncensored version of the Interview with Henry head on over to Patreon and become a supporting member of Bigfoot Society:https://www.patreon.com/posts/bigfoot-society-76023685_______Join the only Facebook group for Van Meter Visitor fans - “Van Meter Visitor Believers” - See you there!https://www.facebook.com/groups/vanmetervisitorbelievers/?ref=shareFOR MORE INFO ON THE VAN METER VISITOR FESTIVAL:https://www.facebook.com/vanmetervisitorfestival/_______Join us over on Patreon! Get access to extra audio content, exclusive merch like a membership card and stickers, watch me interview guests weekly live on video, a Patron-only Discord and more.https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyPick up a Bigfoot Society shirt to rep the podcast!https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietyTune in for new episodes of Bigfoot Society!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7QFor full links go to:www.bigfootsocietypodcast.com

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It turned around and looked in there. And jumped down out of the tree and started running away. And suddenly, they're right in front of the car. slams on the brakes and manages to stop and you're skidding because it's like quite you know, and gravelling. And literally for about a second and a half, they just stood there because they don't know where to go and you tell them panicking, they're like, their face is like twitching. Welcome back to Bigfoot Society, a podcast where we focus on cryptids, the strange and the

unexplained of this world. If you've got a story or something weird to share, send an email over to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. And if you'd like to support this show, head on over to patreon.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. And now on with the show. All right, Bigfoot Society. You've got the privilege of chatting tonight with Mr. Henry Franzoni from out in the Pacific Northwest. How are you doing today, Henry? I'm doing really well.

Thanks for asking. How about you? How are you doing? Oh, I'm doing good. I'm doing good up in my recording studio, chilling out. But a few. Where are you located? I'm located in Central Iowa, believe it or not.

So talking about, so I want to make sure that listeners know a little bit about what it is that you've done over the years. And we'll get more into it, Henry. But if people have watched the 97 documentary drumming for Bigfoot, people that have watched that documentary are usually super big fans of it, then this is the Henry Franzoni that's from that documentary. Also, Henry has written a book in the spirit of Siaco. And let me know if I pronounce that correct. I tried to get to pronunciation. I did. Okay, good.

And he's living in around the Portland, Oregon area, been involved with many different Bigfoot-related things over the years. And it's going to be a chat about that. It's going to be a fun one. So, Henry, anything else that we need to put in there to kind of paint what's going on with the Henry Franzoni story? I'm a little different than all the other Bigfoot people. Oh, yes. I love it. The strange thing about me is that I was a Bigfoot freak in 1993

when I was really obsessed for about five, six, seven years. I was really obsessed. And I became a real biologist. from my fascination with Bigfoot. So unlike most insane Bigfoot people, I actually became a scientist. That would be like one of the things about me that's weird. And then I worked for the tribes here in the Northwest

all along the Columbia River for about 25 years. It became a government supervisory scientist, in fact, in this basin. So, you know, imagine my surprise as I became, I had a career in natural resources management that developed from my interest in Bigfoot. Which is, it's fascinating how you were able to build a career that overlapped with that passion. It's just, it's the coolest thing ever, really. And you referred to that a little bit in your, you were in the, uh, you're in the, uh, documentary, a flash of beauty. You had an interview in that, and you kind of refer to that a little

bit in there as well. But I wanted to start off with a few softball questions. Kind of get the ball rolling. So you're in the Portland area. You've lived in there for quite a while, right? You've been in that Portland area. Yeah, you know, I mean, I moved to Portland in 1974. Wow. So I've been there a long time. But I moved out of Portland in the year 1997. That's really when I left. I, well, I moved to the periphery. I moved about an hour outside of town. I've always lived about an hour from Portland.

And right now, I live about an hour from Portland. We live in Washington, and I live down the Columbia River in a place called Oak Point. Okay. So I'm about, I don't know, 60 miles from Portland, maybe something like that. But I'm in another state. But definitely that same area, lower Columbia River area. I'm a river rat. I have stuck to the river.

And I still am, still a river rat. So I love that the Portland area is so beautiful. You know, me and my wife, we took the, we took a. trip out there, of course, you know, one of the groups of people that after Portlandia was huge, we're like, oh, we got to visit, like everyone in there, in there, you know, did. But Portland's great. It's beautiful. So as a person that lived there for a while, did you have any favorite restaurants when you

lived in that area or anything, you know, cool that you would do that maybe the tourists wouldn't know about? I, yeah, well, there was a lot of, there was a restaurant still is called Frank's Handmade Noodles, which total killer, like the killer restaurant. And I actually played a regular customer on diners, drive-ins, and dives when Franks got onto Triple D. No way. Yes, Franks got on the trip, which spoiled Franks and turned it into two Franks in two different places and made them go much more high end. So, you know, just by doing a triple D appearance, it kind of messed up my favorite place, you know? Oh, no.

Yeah, like so. I'm like, oh, man, that was. But, you know, now there's two of them, you know, what can I say? But yeah, and there was always a place called montage that I loved, which was totally. the great hangout spot for late night musicians and stuff. Okay. You know, it was like the great place, but now it's a food cart post-COVID. Oh, yeah, sure.

You know, it got scaled down. But yeah, there's a lot of like old school Portland stuff, Huber's, places like that that people, you know, modern, modern people don't know about, but they're still there. Did you meet Guy Fietti then? No, no. Guy was like this You know, he was like three layers of people away from me, you know, like I It was evidently

When he came to town, he had college friends he was visiting with So all his producers and everything like just shot the whole episode And then he just like came in and right at the end. We're going to get, we will get to the Bigfoot stuff in a minute, listeners. But this is just, this is totally unexpected. And I just, I love that little tidbit about diners drives and whatever, 3Ds. So if you watch that episode, you can actually see yourself in it, like you're in it? One word.

I say something like, well, it's food made with love. Yeah. That's amazing. A line that makes it into the triple D episode. I'm going to watch that tonight. That is so good. Okay. It's talking about your, you know, you have so many years of, you know, being a musician.

You were involved with, you know, Caveman Shoe Store is the name of your band. I was talking to Mark Mersell about that at CryptiCon. We were discussing about how he met you back in the day. And he was a big fan of that band. But through your years of being a musician, has there been like a performance with a certain person or just a certain night when you're performing that really stuck out in your mind kind of encapsulated like, oh, this is just pure magic?

There's a number of them, really. You see, I had to be. privilege of working with this musician named Fred Shalanor. He's a bass player and he died. And we worked together for 40 years. And Caveman Shoes Store was one of the bands we had together. We had three different bands, actually maybe more like five different bands since we were kids. Since we were 19. From 19 to 64, I worked with Fred. Something like that. So, this guy was just really one in a million as musicians go, and he was just inspired. And there were a lot of times where I'd be on stage with him, and it would just be magic.

Magic would take over. And so there were, you know, luckily, fortunately, there were some recordings made of a couple of those moments. but yeah, there was actually this one, I just got this tape, and I put it on my band camp site. There was a gig I played at Satira Khan in 1992, and our band couldn't make it. So it was just me and Fred, but we were in the middle of recording a Cape Manchu store record called Cape Manchu Master Cylinder. And so Fred and I had all those songs in our head. and we went and had to play this club date, and there were only two of us.

So we had to fill in all the other parts ourselves. So we had to pretend that we were also playing the keyboards and this and that and that and everything. And that particular performance, I still listened to it because, like, it was completely amazing. And, you know, I just listened to it still to this day and go, oh, my God. you know, that was, there's those moments, right? There's a special magic moment, yeah. So, yeah, that was, that was what, there is one, that's one, but there's a bunch of them, because I opened for Ornette Coleman in France once at the Mimi Festival.

Okay. In 1994. And we played really well that night. And that was K. Manchu store. But, yeah, we played really. well. We had some good shows. We played some good shows for sure, where we, you know, the standards I had were supposed to be able to deliver the goods every time you play live. So if you made records, you have to be able to deliver what you do on the records live or

everybody's going to go, oh man, they suck live, you know. Right, right. Is there a favorite, uh, record? recording you that if you know uh favorite album that you came out with you know it's hard you just love them all there may be tough three top three or four i don't know okay it's hard it's hard because i i'm each i like them i like a lot of them i like most of them that i made yeah got you said is the best way to listen to your stuff done on band camp you were saying if people want to check that out these days you know here in the modern world world, I put my back catalog on band camp.

Yeah. You know, like, I mean, that's sort of the thing to do now. It's the only place you can, well, it walks to line where people can listen to it for free three times and then be asked to pay. And you can name your own price. You know, it's not like other streaming services where you get one 10 billionth of a cent. per play. It's and for my music

because it's old style music now even though actually I'm still probably ahead of where music is now but for me it's old style music you know only old people buy CDs and things so I'm like I'm good with that. I have like an old

audience that I have to satisfy a little bit. That's awesome. Yeah. That's It's really cool. In the book, the Oregon Bigfoot Highway, of course, you're part of that group, the Clackamas, I knew I was going to mess it, Sasquatchians, right? In your bio, it's referenced that you were raised in northern New Jersey. Do you have any interesting, it also mentions the Pine Barrens, which I'm from the East Coast originally, and I know a lot of weird stuff happens in the pine barons.

Did you ever have any weird stuff happen or did you go hiking in the pine barons or anything like that? Yeah, I went in the time. I like lived in the pine barons at the time. After a while I Let's go girls.

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It was about the only place in New Jersey I wanted to be. But no, no, you know, oddly enough, I met people who taught their experiences that were really cool. But nothing had, you know, for me, no, I didn't have anything weird. And I went to the other weird place in New Jersey, the Ramapo Mountains. Oh, tell me about that. Ramapo Mountains. Well, that's on the northwest corner. and there's it's similar to the pine barons you know the pineies live in the pine barons right right

the jackson whites live in the ramapo mountains and they too are kind of a remnant indian tribe tuscarora indians hessian soldiers oh wow you know some british that were escaping new york city some dutch and then they went up there in the Ramaphore Mountains and got isolated for 150 years since the Revolutionary War, basically, which is what happened to the Pineys and the Pine Barrens. So it's the same kind of super creepy zone. And, you know, it's got banjos playing and it's deliverance. Oh, no. It's in New Jersey. Yeah.

So I love that about that. New Jersey, you know, it's got the hood and then rich people and then like the Jackson whites and then the hood. You're like, man, where am I? You know, that's very interesting. I'm going to have to look up that area more, the Ramapo Mountain area. That sounds that I'm going to have to look into that because most people, when they think in New Jersey and Pine Barrens, they're thinking of like the Jersey devil, you know, that's what they're bringing up. Well, that's certainly one of the big stories down there, you know. That is probably the main story, right?

But there's a lot of Sasquatch sightings. Oh, yeah. You know, in terms. Pine bears end up and like up along the Pennsylvania, New York border, up in the corner there. No doubt. No doubt about it. I'd like to talk about, so let's start talking about what.

What brought you into your into Bigfoot in the early 90s? And I know that it has something to do with an experience at Skookham Lake in 93, correct? That was the very first one. Yeah, that's what sucked me in big, big time. That led to today. Wow. I had an idea that the Sasquatch thing was secondary, the very first day, because what I was doing was I had moved to a place called Linton,

which is a neighborhood in Portland, Oregon. And if you know Portland, Oregon, it's this strange little neighborhood and the very, very northwest tip of Portland along the river, right on the river bank. And it's far away from all the rest of Portland. It's just like a little finger that sticks out along the river and goes way up along the river. And so I was looking into the history of where I lived, and I saw that a chief, a Chinook chief named Casino had his winter camp there. and that's why it was there.

And I was like, well, you know, this is the chief casinos thing. And so then I started looking up the Indians that had lived in this winter camp. And I found a story, the famous story that everybody sees Paul Kane wrote in, I forget, way to hold on, cat interference. Oh, no problem. Get down, kitty. Get down, kitty. Okay. Sorry.

No, but the story basically was about skukums that lived up on Mount St. Helens. He was a painter, and he wanted an Indian guy to take him up to top Mount St. Helens, and no Indian would do it because the skookums lived there, and they were cannibal, hairy giants. And they lived at Spirit Lake up at the get down, kitty, kitty, get down. And so I said, wow, you know, that's really fascinating. And then I realized from reading this story that it took place on the shore right in front of my apartment in Linton. Oh, wow. And I was like, wow, you know, they were talking right here about the Skookum that lived on top of Mount St. Helens.

So, of course, at that time, which was 1993, everybody had heard stories about Sasquatch up on St. Helens. I mean, that was kind of a, you know, the standard place everybody said they lived around here. So I went, wow, you know, this must be about Bigfoot. Skookums must be Bigfoot. That was my big insight. So I found a place called Skookham Lake. And I read about the history of the name because Oregon has this great book that lays out the reasons for, everything being named what it's named so it's got a great place name dictionary

available and in this dictionary it basically said well it's called skukum lake because that's where the evil god of the woods lives and i said to my wife or was soon to be my wife wow we got to go there and camp you know we got to check out the evil god of the woods totally lives there i'm like hey let's see if he still lives there man let's go so it was a joke right and went up there and before I got to Schoogam Lake I ran into Bigfoot okay when I was a quarter mile away but I didn't see anything but what I what happened in brief to me the very first moment I ever went out there was an electric force field whacked into me, made all my hair stand up on end. My wife immediately passed.

I'm going to take a nap and just passed out on the front seat next to me. Oh, man. It was dead silent. All the crickets stopped chirping and went dead silent. Henry, are you still there? That's a little weird. I'm back. That was really weird because right when you're telling that story,

I know. Everything just wigged out, dude. Yep. Let me tell you. They're listening, man. Oh, my goodness. The thing is, is that this, my starter motor was blown. The force field that made my hair stand up on end blew my starter motor.

And we were marooned there and had to stand. and the smell went away and the force field went away and my wife woke up all at the same time really like like two three minutes later like it was like for three minutes I'm like getting I feel static electricity you know and um and so I said well I don't know what bigfoot is but that wet dog smell made me picture in my mind a giant hairy thing, you know, like the smell was what gave my mind the picture that, hey, this must be a big hairy giant, the big foot that we all hear about all the time, just power of suggestion in a way, you know. But, I mean, it was a strong suggestion.

So I, after that very first encounter, I was like, Well, that's what people call Bigfoot, but it's certainly not a wild animal. I said, I don't know what they think if they think that this is some ape running around out here. But, you know, no ape has a force field and blows my starter motor and knocks my wife out and the whole schick, you know. And the crickets seem to know all about it because they just went quiet. And then when it left and the smell left, they woke up again. You know, it was like the other animals were not so freaked out. They were like, that was my opinion at the time.

It seemed to me that the crickets were able to shut up and then we'll start again. Big deal. Right. But that being the very first moment that I ever encountered Bigfoot. I didn't encounter Bigfoot, but, oh, and I didn't see a damn thing. either. You know, there was nothing to see. Right. So this is what led me down the screwball road. A month later, I went back. And my wife and I camped out and stayed up all night. And I was like, okay, let's stay up all night and watch for Bigfoot. And I was disappointed when,

instead of Bigfoot, a UFO came out of the ground below me. Okay. This was not- The UFO take off in front of us. Whoa, really? Yeah, really close, too. Like we could see the details on the, you know, construction. We, we were on the top of valley, ridge between two valleys.

and it came out of the bottom of one of the valleys and rose up in front of us and then hovered in front of us. So we got like this really good 20 minute look at it. Well, it wasn't 20 minutes. It was maybe two minutes. That's a long time. It was a long time. Yeah. And it was very close to where the starter motor got blown out.

You know, I was maybe quarter mile from that spot less. You know, I was right. I was near the same spot. And then it got super strange in the morning because we went down to see where this thing came out of the ground. Because we could see exactly where it came out of the ground. And we checked these landmarks and we had all these things. And we said, okay. So if we get to this spot where these trees are, you know, it's right.

over there. So we drove around logging roads to go there. And what we got there in front of us was a government SUV with two men in black and a women in red, a woman in red. And the two men in black started walking towards us. And they looked just like the classic cliche. They had sunglasses, tall and thin, walked awkward, white shirts, shiny black shoes. It was like, uh-oh. And so I looked at my wife who didn't know anything about the men in black. And I said, hey, those are the men in black. We're going to get out of here.

And she said, okay, totally. You know, I was like, man, hold on. So I threw it in reverse and I just like jammed. out of there. You know, I had my fan, I just like went on the gravel and just took off. So since those three things happened basically in the same spot in the Cascade and the Cascade was a word. The first month I ever looked for Bigfoot, like the very first month I ever looked for Bigfoot, I was like, wait a minute, what the hell is going on? Like, honestly, what is going on? You know? So,

I had a problem because every time I told people that story, what I just told you, nobody believed me. Nobody believed me at all. Everybody would tell me to, you know, don't tell that story. Don't tell people that. I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry it happened to me. Sorry. No, do tell that story.

That's an amazing story, Henry. I love that. That was my first month of looking for Bigfoot. Your first month. Holy mackerel. the very first month, 1993, August 1st, 1993 was the first date, September 1st, September 1st, 1993 was the second date. And those dates are etched in my mind because that's what sucked me into Bigfoot completely, where I went, wow, whatever's going on, it's really, it's deep,

man. Whatever, whatever is really going on around here. It's, Deep. That's all I can say. So if I was to ask either of you at that time, you both would be in a greet that, yeah, you both saw a UFO. Yeah, because, you know, that was part of why we knew it was real. Because the thing is, is that at the moment we saw it, we saw it, right? and it came up and it was dead silent and it was silver glowing white for most of it and then down at the end like an ice cream cone it had an orange half ball and the orange half ball suddenly glowed a lot brighter and went and my wife said Jado Jettist did takeoff you

And she said, wow, it looks like Jada. Like, it looked like it was getting ready to, you know. Yeah, yeah. And then it did. It just squirted way up into the sky, right? Wow. And so. Let's go, girls.

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the family, the importance of the time, and that the 99% of the people of

the people who cause a Culebrilla. Although not all the people in risk,

they're I do this do you the rupture do you know, and it

even the times more simple are all a real real so you know

about the talk about the doctor or pharmaceutical patrocinated for GSK right after that happened, the weird reaction that your mind has, and both my wife and I had the same reaction, which is you just pretend it didn't happen. Like suddenly, you're like, I didn't see that.

No, that didn't happen. Really? Your brain goes down. It's just like, I don't, no, I didn't see that. But then my wife said this one thing, she said, it was near and then it was far. And for some reason, that triggered the whole memory. And we both went, wow, we just saw a UFO right in front of us come out of the ground. That's amazing.

Have there been sightings in that same area that you've heard of or similar things over the years after that? Yeah, see, after that, I myself had my own little network of Boy Scout. Okay. That I would, in the summertime, I would always talk to these workouts that would camp at the Boy Scout camp up there. And I'd always go, keep your eyes out for orange balls, man. That's awesome. Keep an eye out. And so they would tell me things, you know, after the summer, at the end of the summer for like 94, 5, 6 in there.

For the next three years, I'd get reports from all these kids. because I well that was when Ray Crow had the book story at the Western Bigfoot Society books story so I would meet these kids at the Western Bigfoot Society and then I'd recruit them in my

hey keep an eye on look out for orange balls up there man I knew a lot of and then I went back many times up until 96 you could drive up to Skookham Lake but after the flood of 96

Okay. All access was cut off. You have to hike 16 miles now to get there. Really? Up hill. Yeah. So it's way more inaccessible post-96. But up until 96, yeah, I had like a lot of, I saw orange balls up there a bunch of times.

I had more encounters with Bigfoot up there. And I never saw one, but definitely. definitely interacted. I had things, well, things would happen like this, where I was driving up there once again in my van with my wife in the passenger seat, and suddenly in my right ear I heard like somebody was trying to get my attention. So I turned towards my wife like she was doing it. But at that exact millisecond, she was turning towards me.

Oh, no. Because someone went in her ear. And she said, and we both said what to each other at the exact same instant? And then we both freaked out because we realized that someone was playing with us telepathically. And we were in a van with closed windows. So that kind of thing happened. That was maybe a mile from Skookham Lake, okay? Oh, man.

And that was maybe spring of 94, you know, like a little later. But, yeah, over time, I've had so many experiences that are, that's how it started for me. Yeah. No, the thing is, is that, yeah, yeah, I mean, I had a, today, I've had like 25 encounters or something. I don't count them. I don't even think about it. It's different now for me. And when you say, so you're having, you know, when you're going certain places,

things are happening to you from an outside force of some sorts. That's an interesting term inside or outside. You know, I don't know. Yeah, that's, yeah. Hmm. Don't know. Yeah. It's people, if you're new to all this, I really, really suggest that you go over to Amazon and you look up Henry Franzoni and you read his book because it's really interesting.

It's available as I think it's available in a few different formats, but it's very interesting read. And also it's of great resource as well because Henry makes all these. incredible maps of all across North America that have to do with different names like Skukum, Spirit Lake, all sorts of, you know, monkey related things. It's very interesting. I don't think there's any other resource that has done that to the extent that Henry did. So it's a good resource to have at your disposal as well. I want to make sure I get that little plug in there for the book.

It's really quite good. to have to do an anti-plug. Okay. All right. When I wrote that book, it was the best I could do at the time. Sure. Looking back at it today, I'm like, it's 95% correct. Okay.

But 5% totally wrong. Okay. All right. I mean, the map part is solid, though, right? Yeah, the map is solid. episode. Yeah, well, that was basically an extension of the story I just told you about figuring out Schukem Lake. I ran with that idea and found every Schukem anything, anywhere. And then I went beyond that and found all the words I could find in English or in

various, say, Haipton or Salish or Chinook or whatever. And I ran with that idea to like an absurd degree where I tried to make a database of 4,000 spots that had been named for something like that. But, you know, it's an interesting experiment because one can look at place names just like citing reports. They're almost the exact same thing. When you get a citing report, you don't really know if it's true or not. true or if it's a hoax or not. Right. Sure. And very much with a place name, if it's named Bigfoot Springs, you go, well, maybe it's name because somebody saw a Bigfoot there. Maybe it's name there's a joke and it's a hoax or this or that or it's marketing or sales or, you know,

that kind of thing. So you don't get much more than a citing report with a place name, but it's a clean data set because it's pre-any, any media mention of Bigfoot or Sasquatch or anything. Sure. You know, these place names got laid down a long time ago. So you're looking at an interesting data set. That's what I really thought would people would find interesting in that book. And I guess it still holds, yeah.

And I didn't like the maps people made. So I was like, man, you can make better maps than that. There you go. Yeah, they're good. They're good. What was, what's the 5% that you would change? I didn't really understand the physics. of how Bigfoot does what Bigfoot does.

I didn't even understand what Bigfoot was at all, and I didn't understand what I was. And so that gives you a big sort of room for error. There's plenty of error room there, because I have a much better theory of how it all works now. And I didn't have, have that before. I didn't really, I didn't really understand how they could do what they do. Well, how the stories I'm just telling you, I didn't really understand how I could get hit

by a force field that blew my starter motor and telepathically. Somebody could, you know, talk to my ear, you know, I, but now I have a sense of how that might work, you know, so it's different. That's awesome. I wrote that book before I had that sense of how it might work. So that's what's different. So is then, is that a thing where there might be like a follow-up book where you kind of set something straight or? That's what I'm doing. Okay. Pardon me, cat interference here.

No problem. Cat interference. Bangor, you got to hit down. Get down, bang, bang, okay. Okay, here we go. Yes. Well, you know, yeah, video. Yes.

Welcome to. It's awesome. I love it. the cat thing. Yes, one of the things I'm doing in this, I'm just sure, I have everything that I want to say, but it's not organized right.

I'm almost there. Damn it, I've been struggling with it for years, honestly. Well, I had to wait for the right time. There's a lot of things that had to, had to wait before they could, you could talk about them. And I'm surprised, but it's okay to talk about them now. And I got the word. So it's okay.

Well, plenty of people that will be waiting for that follow up to come out, just so you're aware of that. Before we, there's one thing I want to circle back on. So you said that you were having a lot of Boy Scouts bring reports to you. So did you have that stuff written down? Is that like old records that? No, you don't have it anymore. Okay.

They're just curious. What, once I did because once upon a time, I assembled a database for the Bigfoot Research Project of 485 siting reports in Oregon and Washington. Sure. And I helped them put it together. And we, you know, back in the day, back. In 93 to 98, we had employees who would go out and see what they could learn, you know, because almost all the siting reports we got were so old that, you know, the witnesses weren't alive anymore. But whatever we could learn from going to the site, we learned.

And we did GPS coordinates everywhere. We made a database. And I had all of that. once as a very valuable thing. But then I gave all of the questionnaires that we made people answer to Autumn Williams in like the year 2000. Okay.

Maybe 1999. Sure. I thought she would be a good inheritor of all of that material. So I dumped, because at that point, my wife was nagging me about the boxes my closet and saying, you, what are you going to do with that thing? And I was like, yeah, screw it. You know, get rid of all that Bigfoot stuff. So I got rid of all my Bigfoot artifacts. Oh, wow.

I grew up. And I courage myself in the year 2000, all my casts, hair samples, photo, everything. I was just like, man, people. So, you know, I had a real epiphany. of hatred and well not really but I was pretty sick of how mean everybody was in the Bigfoot world and the whole you know

tenor and arguments and you know the Bigfoot scene I was just sick of it but yeah I had this thing where I got rid of everything and then by 2008

I had so accumulated so much more stuff anyhow that I wrote that book. And I was like, well, geez, I might as well write a book because I got all this new stuff since I got rid of it. And that's kind of what happened again in that I was going back and looking and going, gee, I don't have any of that stuff anymore. And no, I have all new stuff again. And I'm like, no, no, moving on.

I'm not going to. I'm not going to be so rash anymore. I was foolish for me to throw all that stuff away. I should have kept it. Cliff Berrickman gave me a single cast to start my collection again. Oh, that's so nice. Yes, yes. So I have one cast now to begin over with the...

But for me, that end of the phenomenon was, never the interesting end. I was much more interested in the civilization, let us say. I was much more interested in how Western civilization views it, how all the other cultures view this phenomenon, and how they differ radically. And I'm very interested in the physics of how Bigfoot turns invisible and does all this stuff. And so I'm really like an engine and a, well, I've worked, I'm a warrior for the tribes, a contract warrior for the tribes. Let's go, girls. So this is the little pink pill everyone's been talking about.

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Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleep, and dry mouth. Learn more at Adi.com, including important warnings. Use coupon code IHeart for a $10 telemed appointment at adi.com. The all-new tropical butterfly refresher is now at Starbucks. Dive into juicy guapa and passion fruit flavors.

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found, well, in a sentence or two, for me, Bigfoot seemed to be the caretaker of all the other animal species, including Bigfoot seemed to have a caretaker role in nature. And I became a true conservative I wanted to become a true conservationist in part because I kind of sensed that that's what Bigfoot was that Bigfoot was a true conservationist in its own way and that may not be the thing that strikes other people you know when they go looking for Bigfoot they go whoa man you know it whatever but for me that's what struck me and it turned into a career of doing conservation work for the tribes. So my interest in Bigfoot just sort of naturally led right there

because that's what I saw when I went looking for Bigfoot is the whole question of what is their role in nature. I mean we're people right and there's animals. What is their function? You know that that became like that was a the important question to me. What's the function of Bigfoot in nature? Like, I mean, what are they doing here? Right? They're obviously, I didn't have a problem with they exist or not, right? Right, right from the first second, I was like, well, something exists, and it ain't an animal. And so I thought the caretaker thing was what really struck me. They just struck me as caretakers. And then, of course, I read a lot of other cultures' views of Bigfoot that in the years since have really confirmed that for me, that a lot of other cultures see Bigfoot as a protector.

And as a person, a type of person, but as a protector of the tribes, they're seen as, you know, it looks. It appears to me that I wasn't too far off in my guess about them being caretakers. Western civilization may not know that, but many other cultures too. It's very, it's very interesting. And I'll be super interested to see how you're, what else you have learned over the years, you know, when that, that follow up is able to be fully. I'm trying to get it out. Yeah, that's going to be awesome. I'm hoping.

Oh, wow. I can do it. I'm just trying. That's awesome. Really, I'm trying, I'm really, I've been talking about it a long time. I've driven people crazy because I've never finished it. It is so weird. I was reading a book on Shasta, Mount Shasta, the folklore and legends of it by D.W.

Naif, I believe, is the name. And you're called out pretty good in it, Henry. You're the stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's, you're referenced in it. It's very interesting. I was like, I was just, I'm reading this at the same time. This is weird.

But yeah, when he's talking about different Native American things around the Shasta area. So it's very cool. I was really fascinated with that subject of all the Native American spirit animals, for lack of a better term. or the spirits that the Native Americans communicate with. That's the topic that's really interesting to me. And Bigfoot is one of those spirits, by the way. So you view Bigfoot as like a spirit slash spirit animal or more of like a type of spirit? or I know it's a

no I would say from my point of view Bigfoot is both Bigfoot is animal flesh and blood and also has puzzling powers that lend it to

being a spirit as well but Bigfoot's no different than you or I and now I understand much more of how it all works we are the same in our construction also.

Very interesting. Yes, we are clearly related. Hmm. Gotcha. I want to rewind a little bit. Let's go back to 93. And reading in your book, there's a part where you talk about becoming a member of the board of advisors for the Bigfoot Research Project, headed by Peter Byrne.

And so I'm just, how. you know, we've got the thing that happened to you and your wife. How does that, like, how do you meet Peter Byrne? What's that connection there? How did that all start? Because that's quite the connection to get. That's how. Okay.

The way it happened was that happened to me August 1st. Okay. So August 2nd, I went to that bookstore. I remember seeing the Bigfoot in the window, and it was Ray Crow in the Western Bigfoot Society, but over in the St. John's neighborhood in Portland. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember this bookstore, and I, my wife and I were like, yeah, remember that bookstore that we always see yet? Let's go, let's go see what's going on.

So I went in there and I introduced myself to Ray Crow. And I told that story to Ray Crow, like my wife and I did for some reason, because I don't know what, he and Peter Byrne had just moved to Hood River, where Parkdale, technically, where he was setting up the Bigfoot research project. And Ray Crow was like at that moment, he was like, well, I should tell Peter Byrne any Bigfoot sighting reports. So he told him of Peter Byrne. You got to. You got to. And he's like, well, Peter, you know, this guy's in my bookstore.

And he just, you know, told me this story. So moments later, I met Peter Burn. Wow. And then it just one thing led to another. I was just, I was so, he captured my imagination mascot and his jungle hat. Oh, exactly. Really. I mean, I was like, wow, this is awesome, you know.

And then I'm like a useful, I don't know, I'm useful. So within a short time, I had made websites for Western Bigfoot Society, Bigfoot Research Project, Ron Moorhead, Patty Patterson, Rogers' wife, and Renee DeHendon. and I made all these websites because I was a computer geek, right? And so I was like, well, I can help you, Peter, with your Bigfoot research project. I know all about, I'm good with computers, man. So I did all, and then I did all this GIS work for him. And then I did all these databases that we're talking about. And, you know, and I was like, yeah, yeah, man, I can help you do this shit.

So then he invited me to be on the board of advisors like a couple months later. Okay, gotcha. I was a, and there I was till the very end, until the bitter end, until the bitter end, yes. But he helped me get into this thing really well. He, vis-a-vis what we were talking about before, he bought me a CD of the genus database, of the geographical names information system. Oh, cool. beginning of the internet and it wasn't yet online. Today is just a website.

But back then, it was a CD that you had to buy. And Peter Byrne bought that for me to help me get totally into the place name thing. So like he encouraged me like that. And that helped me, you know, just get sucked. And then I, then when Jeff Glickman came in and took over, I still hung around and helped him. write, you know, his book, his great paper of 1998, The Towards a Resolution of the Bigfoot Phenomenon. Uh-huh.

And I just like, in that paper, actually, you'll see, pardon me, a lot of my early place name stuff where I'm like, wow, you know, look, I look for this name and I found this. Right, right. So, you know, I mean, I was all, it was so semi-scientific, but the basic idea was a sound idea, as it turned out, because I went to a lot of those places and had encounters. That's awesome.

It's so, so cool. So the website thing, so I'm a computer guy. And I just found that fascinating, that you were the guy in, the mid 90s that was making the websites for these guys like it's so listed in your book it's like you know peter burn rene de hinden moneymaker chris murphy uh ray crow ron moorhead and that that's just man that's awesome like it also so also you made the the website for patty patterson too well we made one but she didn't ever wanted to go live and then we killed it you know but she she She made one because we had a relationship.

Well, there was a lot of good that came out of that period. Okay. One of the things Peter Byrne is the best at is raising money. Peter Byrne had more money to look for Bigfoot than anybody and could obtain capital. And so other Bigfoot researchers really resented. him for that because you know that ascot it worked what was it the money to pay patty patterson $20,000 digitize the Patterson film from her copy from her copy which is the only it's the it's not the original it's the first copy and she has it in a bank vault and for by giving her 20

grand, she let us digitize all 952 frames. That's awesome. DeHendon, Peter Byrne raised the money to pay him 20 grand so we could use something like 37 of his still photos because DeHendon owns the still rights to the Patterson film. Right. Patty owns the motion rights. So the Hinden, we paid 20 grand. to use these in towards a resolution of the Bigfoot phenomenon.

And Glickman, I think, ended up only using about 15, 16 frames from the film. But De Hinden was really anti-scientist. And so he refused to let it be published in a scientific journal that was written into the contract. It was absolutely. Really? Yep. you know like he de hinden really you know that's the interstate the thing about bigfoot is the intersection of commerce and science yeah and whackadoodles and everything else it's really it's an interesting problem man you know really that's so intense you went from zero to 60 literally in the way that you went from having this encounter and then you're just thrown into the crazy stuff with like peter burn and rene de hinden And, I mean, you actually met Renee to Hendon.

Renee was a good friend, actually. Of all those, of all those people, I've met them all. Really? Yeah, well, I mean, Grover and John Green and Renee. And, yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, I knew them all. But Renee was a friend. Okay. Renee and I became friends because, in my opinion, Renee was,

he was the smartest of all those guys in my opinion but that just you know that's just what i think i liked him the best whatever i liked him the best he was the most fun so you're saying at the gun club drinking with rene telling bigfoot stories laid into the and it was a lot more fun than you know that is so awesome so you were actually hanging out with rene like like you're like hanging out like buds Yeah, the last three, four years of his life. Wow. I don't have a brain.

Yeah, because, you know, I was not the typical coop. I mean, I helped put 20 grand in his pocket. So I was obviously not, you know, easy to dismiss as a woo-woo guy. Right. Well, they didn't dismiss me, really. The thing is at the end, those guys. Let's go, girls. So this is the little pink pill

everyone's been talking about. Yep, that's Addy. Good things do come in small packages. And Addy is definitely a good thing. Not just good, it's... Oh, la la. Meow. Man, I feel like a woman.

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And it's like they are both, we're both. Everything's both. Don't worry. You know, it really is. It's soul and physical body. Right? Are there physics yet that describe the soul? No, there's religion that describes the soul.

Sure. But I'm talking hard physics. You know, that's what, that's what, helps. When you understand the physics of your soul, it is much easier to understand Bigfoot. That's what I'll say. That's a, that's a, that is an intense statement right there. I like that. Yeah, I like that, man. That's, that's, that's good. That's good. From, from the years of talking, you know, you said you were able to talk to Renee over a few years. Do you, are there any conversations about Bigfoot that, that you can still remember anything, you know, fun that stands out in your, your memories? Oh, yes. Yes. There's, well, it's pretty hysterical. But yeah, no, the strange thing, you know, for me, Renee would, we'd talk about everything, right? Bigfoot, everything.

he thought there was some kind of mental aspect to it. That's what he used to say. Really? When he was drunk enough and it was private and late it and made enough, and he would go, you know, there is some mental aspect to this. Oh, wow. That's awesome. I used to go, wow, you know,

Renee's actually got a clue, you know, like I used to, that used to really please me. Yeah. I'm Mr. Out there, supposedly, but I'm not, but, um, Renee, Renee had through experience brings you there. Like those experiences I told you about clued me into a different side. I always say people see different faces of the Bigfoot mystery, right? And it's really probably the experience you had is the face you see. And it's probably just that simple. And so I had a weird experience.

So that's the face I saw. It's weird. It's not this monkey walking across the street. It's weird, man. So I was very pleased when Renee and some of the really old guy. through experience because as you go along, weird things happen to you.

I can guarantee you that. You can be, you can see Bigfoot cross the road like another dozen times. But then one time, the 13th time, you know, Bigfoot stops your car dead in the middle of the road with his mind. And you go, wow,

that's really weird. So what I'm saying is it seems to me that anybody that really looks and really tries and gets and goes the distance and does the work and gets out there and really does it, the closer you get to them, the weirder it gets. Gotcha. Like when you start to actually have experiences, they're not what you experience. And you're like, wow, I was expecting a gorilla. And as time goes by, as you, as you, I mean, that's what I have observed in others, is over time, they get a little more open to the weird side

because weird shit happens as they look, if they really look, and maybe it takes a decade or two. You know, I mean, it takes time before something weird happens. But I find a lot of times that those very old guys, that's all I meant to really convey. Oh, man, there's, okay, there's a lot. I'm going to ask you, so in this interview, I'll be asking some really, like, random questions. And if it doesn't hit, we're just going to go right past it. And it's more for me personally.

I feel like talking about Bigfoot. Yeah, anything you want. So, I'm in Iowa, right? So I research Bigfoot in Iowa, and I found out that from a guy that I talked to who is involved with Bigfooting in Iowa in the 1970s, that Renee DeHinden actually came out to Iowa to talk to them. Did he ever, is that anything that anything that he probably never mentioned anything about an Iowa trip or anything at that? If not, that's not. No, no mention that. Okay.

All right. No sweat. Did you ever talk to Patty Patterson about the PG film at all? Did you ever get to talk to her about that? No, I just talked to money. Okay. Yeah, you're just the guy putting this stuff together. All right, cool, cool.

I only talked to money with her, and then I talked to websites with her. But, yeah, no, I never, no, I had never once broached the subject. We discussed at length, you know, what her copy was exactly and, you know, how much we would pay and, you know, how long we could have it and, you know, what we could do to it. You know, we went through the whole. We had to, it was complicated. It's a valuable asset. And, uh, oh, yeah. You know, we did the best we could at the time. But that project ended in T-O-huh. years. The and things happened. For example, we made a stabilized version of it back then. In 1995, we had this beautiful stabilized version of Patty Patterson's copy. Wow. And we just destroyed it. We didn't, you know, like at the end, it was like, I'm, you know, like, you destroyed it. Well, it got destroyed. Yes. The, um, well, Yeah, because from that project, there was a staff of three.

Peter Byrne, a staff of three, and the board of advisors of which really there were, we were like volunteers, right? you know, and the Board of Advisors, we just sort of commits and show up and, you know, we were just a pain in the ass. So I'm the only one that acknowledges that it ever happened. The rest of the staff has removed it from their resumes. The project leader after Peter Byrne has removed all mention of it from any of his CVs or anything. No one wants to talk about it or say a word. At the end of the project, we had 70 CDs with this digitized copy of the Patterson film on it.

And one of these staff took 68 of the CDs. And I took the first two, which I've lost since then. Because I just wanted a memento of the two, what the hell. And she buried them. You know, like she, none of these people will. She buried them? Well, none of these people want to have anything to do with anything in Bigfoot whatsoever. They've scrubbed any mention of it in their lives since.

So all of them have to say zero mention of ever having ever existed. Okay. I am the only human being who will talk about this is project. Wow. Wow. That is so intense, Henry. Yeah, literally it died in 1998 was when I was- Wow. Right. And that was the real death. And so, yeah, 24 years, 24 years later, it's like,

That's crazy, man. I'm the last person who will. The last one. who will even but even at the time I wound up with everything that's a lot

of what I gave to Autumn Williams back then because I was the only of the people of the project there might have been others who were I was the

one really focused on solving the problem. Sure. I really wanted to figure out the mystery. I still do. That's what motivated me is I wanted answers. I wanted to know what was going on. And so everybody kind of knew that about me.

Like, I was the true believer that was like, hey, I want to solve the mystery. The Patterson film copy, like I said, I only took the first two discs, and the other staff member took the others. Oh, so that was that was not a literal thing, right? Like they didn't literally bury them in the ground. Like it was just they got rid of them.

Who knows what she did? I got you. Divor, she never talked to a Bigfoot person again and never acknowledged any connection to Bigfoot anything ever again with anyone. And she moved off, got another job and married a guy, moved on, had a life. Good for her. Good for her. We'll let her have her life. I do want to talk because the history of this, I don't think exists anywhere, is how did the documentary drumming for Bigfoot come about? Like, what's the background of that? Was that your idea or?

Yes. Okay. The way that came about was, I better like this to tell you this story. because you see a guy named Anthony Wonky and I smoked joints drank beers and drove all around the Pacific Northwest for nine weeks in a rental car interviewing Bigfoot people all over the Northwest.

No way. And scouting locations. and we had two tapes to listen to in the car. One was School E.D., if you know, your early rap. And School E.D., one of the hardest of the heart. And the other one was tortoise head. And we listened to these two tapes and smoke joints and drank beers for nine weeks. Oh, that's amazing.

And wrote... The script. Wow. You're in. Oh, my goodness. And we casted it too. It's so good. Okay.

That documentary is one of my, it's my favorite thing because of the culture of the 90s and also like the way it's edited. Did you edit it too? No, those guys were, you see, those guys were masters. Anthony Wonki was the assistant producer. And really he wrote the majority. but he'll tell you it's my movie I really wrote the majority. Okay.

Like he'll, like we'll disagree about who wrote the majority. But we went through all, we met every lunatic Bigfoot person in the Northwest, and the idea was to cast interesting narrative characters. That's awesome, yes. you're talking about. Like, I went and introduced them to Peter Byrne and to Hinden and then to Grover Krantz and John Green. You know, I was like, Moorhead.

I'm like, okay, you got to meet the guys, you know. Right. So I introduced them and thinking one of these people is going to be the spokesman, right? Because we were looking for spokesmen. We were looking for who was going to be the main narrative character. So all those guys tell the same story. give the same interview every time. It's boring.

We don't want those guys. Right, right, exactly. Oh, okay. And they were like, yeah, no, we want you. You know, you'll, you're the main narrative character. And Larry Lund will be the secondary main character. Yes, it's so good. So we got Larry and me to be the narrative characters.

And people don't know this is how that movie got made. But yeah, that's how it got made. And then. We had what we were trying to do was to coordinate it with the Bigfoot research project so that when the big paper was coming out. That is intense. The first plot had, that was the big reveal, was, okay, and here's the big scientific report. Oh, really? Yeah, that was going to be the original way it went, right?

But Let's go, girls So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel... Uh-huh, and more. More? Huh, I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age.

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Addie can cause severe low blood pressure and fainting. Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose. Don't take Addie if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth. Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings.

Use coupon code IHeart for a $10-dollar telemet appointment at adi.com. Starbucks iced horchata shaken espresso was back for the summer. Crafted with cinnamon, vanilla, and nutty notes of toasted rice. Handshaking was smooth blonde espresso and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer. Only at Starbucks. By the time I hit my 50s, I'd learned a few things. Like how family is precious. Work can always wait.

And 99% of people over 50 already have the virus that causes shingles. Not everyone at risk will develop. it, but I did. The painful, blistering rash disrupted my life for weeks. Don't learn about your shingles risk the hard way. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist today. Sponsored by GSC. Peter demanded way too much money. Fair enough. Well, you got to pay me X, Y, Z if you want to do that. Yeah, all right. Is Anthony still around? Do you know? He works for the BBC. See, the people that did that all worked for Channel 4 and the BBC. Oh, okay.

They were a lot of the pros. Norman Powell was the head guy. Anthony Wonky was the second guy. John Waters, the guy that plays the cameraman, was David Attenborough's cameraman. Right. You know, like, and the cameraman we had besides him were of the same quality. And the sound guy was incredible. He got the best drumming.

sound out in the middle of the woods because he had such high-end gear. It was staggering, you know, and they were all total pros that really knew what they were doing. And Norman Hall was in charge of that, but that team of guys, see, after the nine weeks, then they came and we shot it for six weeks. So it actually took 15 weeks, and then it went to editing. And there's, you know, just like every movie, there's like five times the foot. footage that you'll never see. Oh, can't imagine the stuff that, like, is on the, the floor after the editing, like,

what's the stuff that didn't make it in? Oh, I would love to see, but you'll never see it. Most did not make it in. Oh, my goodness. We went and picked those people because they were interesting narrative characters, you know. We were looking for quirky. The Brits, the British people in general, like the more, you know, idiosyncratic narrative character rather than, you know, American style, you know, straight ahead narrative character.

You know, they're they like idiosyncrasies. So I love making that movie, but like I said, we basically got drunk and stoned and wrote it and had a win. It makes the doc even better. Who did the music for that, the doc? It's really cool music. That was people, Norman Hall and Anthony. Okay, just whoever, yeah. I don't know who they were.

The music great. One of the, one of the, I guess you could say, quirky characters in it that I just, the Howard Hall guy in the goat mountain area, whatever happened, do you know what ever happened to him? No, but I think he steals the show. I think he's like. He's so good. Yeah, he steals the movie. Howard. No, don't know what happened to Howard, you know.

And I've one time I used to hang out where he lives was really near Skookham Lake. Really? Not that far. Like a valley or two over. Oh, wow. You know, so I used to hang out in the area and then I'd stopped hanging out in that area after 96, really. after after that movie i stopped hanging out in that area so occasionally i visit the clackamas area but it's you know i my my um i set my stakes wider now yes do you remember any people that

you had talked to in those nine weeks that didn't make the cut oh yeah yeah millions of oh yeah a lot because because see It was like going down the list of all the people I knew. So there was a guy named Dennis Harreford, who was a Washington State Patrol guy. And he, back then, he didn't talk to Bigfoot people. But he was actually the guy that the state of Washington would call when there was a Bigfoot incident. at a construction site or something. Oh, wow.

And so he had the greatest track casts and measurements and data collection of anybody ever. And I mean, he was the guy Washington called, you know, and he would measure the tracks and the stride and the this and the that and, you know, just do the straight cop thing. And he was a super badass woodsman. that the other job he had for Washington, the state of Washington, was they would call him when there was a prison escapee hiding out in the woods and he would track him down. No way. Yeah.

So Dennis Herriford was this insane character that, I mean, I was just like, oh, man, you know, like we got to introduce people to Dennis Herrick. Dude, what could have been? Oh, my goodness. But that's just how it goes. Yeah, no, and I mean, it's many, many years later, so I have no idea what he's up to now. But I think now, like, everybody knows about him, like, you know, Moneymaker and the BFR. You know, I think everybody's figured out Dennis Harryford exists. Yeah.

But who else? Yeah, there was Datus Perry and really Datus. It was the only film ever taken of Datus. It's too bad. It was right before he died, but he was one of my biggest influences. And he was a logger that lived in Schemania County and had 13 encounters with Bigfoot, as he used to tell us. Wow. But he turned out to be one of the most insightful people and have the most valuable insights, in my opinion.

you know, and he got completely cut. And then there were two Macaw elders that we interviewed, George O'all and Frank Smith. That were their, that was their white names. And they were 80 and got to interview him. And it was like this. It was like we went on and on and on about Bigfoot, Bigfoot, Bigfoot, Bigfoot, Bigfoot, Bigfoot. And the only thing they would say was they'd say, well, you know, like 1947, a servicemen stationed down the road at the air base saw one, he says.

And that you can find in John Green's book on the track of the Saskatch at particular incident. And if you went to the tribal bookstore, they had John Green's track of the Sasquatch. And that was the only Bigfoot story they would tell was, oh, that one that's in John Green's book, you know. And I was like, well, geez. So then I said, well, what about the little people? And they said, oh, the little people, well, they're in the next valley. You want to meet them?

And no way. Then we got on to the sea monsters. And they had seen this sea monster each. of them had seen it three times in their life over 80 years and Nia Bay and basically it was Cadborosaurus as the modern. Oh, yeah, Caddy, right? Right. Well, these, both of these elders described six different encounters they had with Caddy in Nia Bay. And we cut all that. And I was like, oh my goodness. You know, I was like, shit. man we should have kept that man I know it wasn't bigfoot but you know really there's people that would have been interested in that

holy mackerel henry oh my goodness wow that's I never would like never would have expected all that that's crazy dude yeah and nothing to it that airman saw it in 1947 that is but i really yeah it's pretty crazy Oh, my goodness. But, yeah, all that's on the cutting room floor. I know that because those are the things I really missed. And I was like, damn. Wow. All those people died too, right?

George, all, Frank Smith, Datis Perry. Yeah. Gone. So. Especially if those guys were in their 80s back then. Yeah, they're long gone. Yeah. Wow.

Thank you for sharing all that. I mean, it's like you can find a copy of that, an old VHS transfer copy of it on YouTube. And then it's on the Tube app. I don't know if you've ever seen that. It's like this streaming app. Yeah. The title changes. I think they call it.

It does. Yeah. I think Bigfoot Monster Mystery is what I've seen it as on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just keeps floating around. That's for sure.

It keeps like a bad penny. It keeps turning up. It's like if you know about it, then you're, and if you find someone else that knows about it, it's like you're in this like special like ultra secret Bigfoot Club where it's like, oh, you get that 97 Bigfoot dock. Then you're awesome. That's how I look at it anyways. Oh, wow.

It started as a joke from my friend Arthur Purley who said, let's go play drums for Bigfoot. And get Bigfoot to come and check us out. And then one day, BBC comes to town and I start joking around with Anthony Wonky about the idea, right? In that nine weeks of driving around, they're all like, yeah, that's going to be the opening scene. And it's so good, too. It is so good. And I'm like, really? I mean, it started as a joke.

They're like, oh, man, that's the old zoom in, you know, like, man, just like it is, you know, and I'm like, wow, who knew? You know, so yeah, it wasn't my plan, but it did start in my head, you know. I love it. I love it so much. The basic ideas, turns out also is sound as well. You don't find Bigfoot, they find you. Turns out that's a sound concept. So very interesting

Another statement you made in your book is you mentioned making six shows and making contributions to half a dozen books I'm just curious like do you remember like what shows were you involved with making And also or like contributions to books stuff like that The other big one Was Sasquatch Odyssey Okay. Right.

Yep. Yep. You know, that one. Then there was a German one that you, no one's ever seen, a little German vignette. Then there was an Australian one, no one's ever seen, a little vignette. Then I did in search of with Robert Stack. Nice. Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, before Leonard Nimoy, you know, like early, early in search of. Oh, wow. Yeah. Do you remember the names of the German and the, you said it was Australian? Okay. No problem. I don't even remember. I don't remember the names. I remember the interviews. And then there was another British one. that disappeared. Another, like, some competitor of the BBC had to do an interview, too, if there is a competitor of the BBC, or maybe it's a competitor of Channel 4. But another crew came out and did another interview at the time,

but I've never seen or heard of that one ever again. Actually, all three of those I never heard of again. There were three that I shot that I never heard a thing ever. That's very interesting. This is the war off year 2000 is when I said, I am not going to be a narrative character for the media about Bigfoot anymore. Thank you very much. Yes. And you just, you know, here I am, eating my words 22 years later.

And, you know, right. Here I am. But it's okay now. I'm retired. I'm 66. I'm at a different place in life, you know. Time to have some fun. you know yeah um oh in uh the oregon bigfoot highway they taught so you were listed as a clackamas

saskatchewan or that word is so dang hard to say saskatchian saskatchian okay um one of the requirements is that you camp at least five days up the clackamas or spend two hundred hours of on the ground research. Is that something like did you actually meet those requirements then? Yeah, without trying, you know, I. Where the hot areas are after many years. And that's one of the hot areas. It's always been hot.

There's always been shit going on over there. Yeah. And that's where all that UFO stuff happened and all that. Everything. I've had so many weird things happen to me over there. that um let's go girls so this is the little pink pill

everyone's been talking about yep that's adi good things do come in small packages and adi is definitely a good thing not just good it's oh mhm oh la meow man i feel like a woman meet addie the little pink pill

addie is a prescription medicine for women under 65 with hypoactive low sexual desire disorder that's distressing to them Addie is for low desire that happens in all situations and isn't caused by a medical condition, relationship issues, or medicines. Adi isn't for men or to enhance sexual performance. Addie can cause severe low blood pressure and fainting. Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose.

Don't take Addie if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth. Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings.

Use coupon code iHeart for a $10-dollar telemetapoint. at adi.com. The Starbucks iced torchata shaken espresso is back for the summer. Crafted with cinnamon, vanilla, and nutty notes of toasted rice. Handshaking with smooth blonde espresso and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer. Only at Starbucks. By the time I hit my 50s, I'd learned a few things.

Like how family is precious. Work can always wait. And 99% of people over 50 already have the virus that caused. causes shingles. Not everyone at risk will develop it, but I did. The painful, blistering rash disrupted my life for weeks. Don't learn about your shingles risk the hard way. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist today. Sponsored by GSK. I maintain a network of observers to this day, but not Boy Scouts, but... Okay. See, I, well, that's really an overstatement. I've been in natural resources management, and the Warm Springs Reservation is border of the western border of it is right there,

not so far from Skookham Lake, little further east. and Thunder Mountain, you know, that was all, Skookum Lake's on Thunder Mountain, and Thunder is a giant Indian in all the Indian stories. Okay. So the fact that a giant Indian lives on Thunder Mountain, exactly why it's named Thunder Mountain, I didn't realize that when I was looking at Skookum Lake on Thunder Mountain,

and that's where the evil god at the woods lived. I didn't realize. Oh, wow. I looked at the mountain. It was actually named for Thunder, the giant Indian that's in all the stories. Wow. You know, I didn't know that then. And there's a lot I didn't know.

There's a lot I don't know still, right? But the truth is, is that I worked for four tribes for 25 years. Well, more than that. I worked for really 20 tribes. But four main tribes, the Yakima, Yuma, Yuma, Yuma, Worm Springs, Nespers. Those are the four treaty tribes, and I worked on behalf of their fishing rights.

They have fishing treaty rights, and I fought for their treaty rights in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and won a couple of cases. Okay. So I'm, a warrior to defend the tribal rights to things like, you know, the fish and wildlife and animals. You know, I've had a whole career in it.

And I had an annual contract with the Department of Energy who funded me for all those years to do this work for the tribes. So I'd walk between, you know, the Fed. DOE and the tribes for 25 years. I've walked on a tight row. And right, I know those areas in Clackamas County now from a whole different perspective, like as the boundary of Indian land coming west.

And yeah, like I said, the thing is, is that I'm, many tribal people tell me, when they have a sighting. Oh, wow. And I don't, I have not really spent, until recently, I haven't spent much time outside of Indian country. For the last 25 years, I've spent a lot of time in Indian country because I've been doing salmon restoration work.

I've been out the woods and in wilderness for 25 years on tribal land, generally. And I've been a scientist for the tribes for 25 years. And one of the interesting things about that movie that you're talking about, the Bigfoot Monster Ministry, is that when tribal people saw that movie, what they got from it, the takeaway they got in many cases was that I would not hurt another animal. I don't know how you can read that into that movie, but they were like, you wouldn't hurt another animal, would you? and all these different tribal people would come up to me and say, I saw that movie, you wouldn't hurt another animal, would you? And I go, no, you know, I wouldn't, as a matter of fact. You know, that's right.

And I couldn't figure out how they got that from watching that film. But that happened to be all across Indian country, and it acted as a calling as a white card to allow me access all across Indian. Indian country because everybody saw that movie in Indian country. Oh, wow. Yeah. And they all liked it. And I didn't know that. And so everybody knew who I was.

The moment I started going out in the middle of Indian country, and they're like, ah, the Bigfoot guy, oh, you. But because that movie, I made real friends with Indians, you know, I worked alongside. Yeah. Made a lot of good friends. I have a lot of good friends today that are tribal people and the real born and raised on the res, people, you know.

Sure. And so that's a network for me. My connections and my reputation is not something I can share with other people and say, oh, yeah. Tell them you're my friend and they're my. But the thing is, is that I, get filled in, if anybody on the res sees Bigfoot, I usually hear about. You know, like on those four res and maybe even more because I just spent the last four and a half

years working for the Cowlitz tribe. So, um, and everybody knows that I'm that Bigfoot obsessed white guy. Sorry, did you say that you have, you have, uh, contacts with Midwestern tribes as well? Yeah, I just, I, I, I, I'm, I'm always hesitant, but hey, it's come out in public. Yeah. I have various skills. That's cool. That's cool. I have various skill sets.

One of my skill sets is payment system architecture. Oh. Well, you're a computer guy, right? Yeah. So, you'll get it. So, um, I take QA contracts coming out of K Street for, for, you're a computer guy, right? WIC systems and food stamp systems. Sure. And I do QA for the feds and for the tribes in this case. They're building a new WIC system. So a new WIC system and a new food stamp system just got put in in the Midwest across 10 tribes.

And it was a two-year contract I had to do QA on putting on the system as it got put in because a strain. card I have to play is I'm an expert in payment system architecture. You know, because like you, you know, I'm a computer geek, right? But I'm an old 66-year-old computer. I love that. A lot of the listeners are like, I don't care. But I'm like, dude, I love that stuff. So I totally get it, man.

Yeah. So I'm, my thing is all about allocation of research. I want to help allocate resources in a fair way. I think society should allocate resources in a fair way, yeah, my soapbox. And so all the work I do and all the jobs and careers I've had have basically touched on that theme, which is trying to make this society allocate resources more fairly.

You know, like that's my shtick. That's my game. But it, yeah, it comes out and, different ways and mostly yeah I've worked you know I've worked for these 10 tribes and I couldn't talk about it while I did it most of the time I can't talk about what I'm doing I've right buttoned up strategic and effective and I cannot talk but now I'm post retirement so I can actually say oh yeah you know like I've been working for all these tribes for years you know and I have a lot of contact well I have a lot of contact well I

have tribal friends and I have a tremendous amount of respect for the tribes. I really, really am just, it's a total privilege to be able to work for the tribes like I do. And I'm just filled with gratitude that I got to do it. You know, I really, I'm just, it's too, it's how I feel. I know people are like, oh, you want to be Indian. You know, I'm like, no, it's really. on another level, folks. Yeah.

That is cool that you were able to make, you know, you made really a huge difference in the lives of so many people through that. So that's, it's very cool, I think. As we start to kind of wrap things up a little bit, do you have any words for those that are getting into Bigfoot? the younger generation, the current big footers today? Yeah, you broke up for a minute there. Oh, yeah, sorry. Do you have any advice for the current, you know, up-and-coming Bigfoot generation of the Bigfooters today?

Yeah, sure. Think Chubaca. Okay. Don't think Field and stream. Field and stream, no. Chewbacca. Yeah. And you're going to be a lot closer. You know, my advice has not changed. Do not underestimate the intelligence of what you are facing here.

It is, well, yeah, I mean, I don't know what advice to give them. The way, one of the really good things about Peter Byrne that I need to mention, because nobody really mentions this about him. Sure. But this dovetails into advice for the now people. Peter was different than all the other guys back in the day because he was really into Jane Goodall. And he was really into this approach of. we should try to communicate with them like Jane Goodall does with the guerrillas,

and we should use that approach, the whole friendly communication approach. And he took crap from everybody else for being that way. And he stood up to Hinden and Krantz and Green. Everybody was like, get out the gun, you know, whatever. And that was the right idea. But he shortly abandoned it and went to this biopsy dart plan where he was going to shoot it with a biopsy dart and get a DNA sample because he needed a DNA sample. And then they went to this slightly more violent approach, which I wouldn't recommend even today. That's true.

But not for the reasons because they're people. These things, these creatures are people. The closest thing you can understand is people. If you get to know them, you realize they're people. Where have you been? And so all the others, that I would really say, is why Peter Burns approach was really enlightened and ahead of the game. And pretty much all the, there's, there's, there's way too much violent, you know,

there, I understand the mechanist viewpoint and the materialist, I must get a body, you know, give it up on the body. No one, I'll point out an interesting omit. pardon me, in the data that we have right now, which is nobody's really ever touched the body. We've looked at the body a lot of times. And it looks like ours. And it looks like it has flesh like ours. And it looks just like one of us, you know, see muscles and shit.

But nobody's touched it. And from the strange reports I hear of those that actually touch it, it's, rock hard and doesn't meet your expectations about skin. So there's a lot going on with the body. It's different than ours, is my point. It looks the same as ours, but functionally, it's different. There's something really different about it. And everybody sort of moves past that problem.

Nobody really gets to touch the body, hold the body, even touch it with their hand. More literally, well, here's a story, if I may. Yeah, definitely. I had a friend, a tribal friend, who always wanted to find out what happened if he shot a little person in the head. And so he was hunting and he saw a little person and he shot it in the head. And it rang like a bell. Really? Really loud like a bell. And he had really bad luck for the next 15 years and then he died.

Oh, man. So that's more advice for the youngsters. Don't do that. Yeah. Guys, let's not do that. That's good advice. Henry, it has been an amazing chat with you. Thanks so much for taking a few hours out of your Friday and chatting with me. Been a fun time.

Please take a few minutes. If there's anything, I always like guests at the end, if there's anything they want to plug or websites or anything, by all means, go ahead. God, you know, I'm just getting back into this public, Bigfoot world. I have no merch, but one day maybe I'll have merch. You know, I have a, the working title of my book is Superforce Seattle,

Ciatco. Nice. But could be subject to change. I don't know if I like that, but that, I'm trying to get that out in two months. hopefully I've been telling people for years I'm going to finish it I really am close to finishing it and yeah finally I'm going to write my what I think about Bigfoot that's awesome oh man like everybody really needs another take on Bigfoot oh my God I mean I'll read it

dude I'm I'm I'm pumped for it so good stuff well thanks Henry for hanging out and you Have a good rest of your night there. You too. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to Bigfoot Society. If you like the show, please review and rate it five stars on iTunes. Hit the share button and send this episode to all your friends on social media. Subscribe to Bigfoot Society wherever you listen to podcast.

It doesn't cost a thing. Pick up a Bigfoot Society shirt or enamel pen over on our Etsy page, and people will tell you all about their Bigfoot sightings when you wear it. At least, that's what people tell us. That's what happens. If you'd like to become an official member of Bigfoot Society with a membership card, a community of like-minded individuals, and extra content each month, then please consider becoming a supporter of the podcast by going to www.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. Thanks for listening. Let's go, girls.

So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel. Uh-huh. And more. More? Huh. I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age.

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