Bigfoot Society - Hidden Bigfoot Archives Reveal Southwest Secrets in New Mexico & Oklahoma | Archives

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Step back into the Bigfoot Society archives with two unforgettable interviews that first aired on October 2 and October 3, 2024 as Episodes 545 and 546.Veteran researcher, actor, and investigator Jesus Payan shares decades of Bigfoot research spanning New Mexico, Oklahoma, and the American Southwest. From reports passed along by Forest Service employees and law enforcement to military sightings near White Sands Missile Range, strange encounters on Native lands, and firsthand experiences deep in the mountains, this conversation explores some of the most compelling stories from a lifetime spent pursuing the unknown.Then, Oklahoma witness Mary takes us into the forests surrounding Grand Lake of the Cherokees, where generations of her family quietly accepted Sasquatch as part of everyday life. She recounts childhood sightings, mysterious knocks and whoops, oversized footprints, strange nests, intimidating encounters near homes, and decades of activity stretching across Delaware County, Mayes County, the Illinois River, and beyond.These archive conversations capture the eyewitness accounts that helped shape Bigfoot Society into what it is today. Whether you're hearing them for the first time or revisiting these classic interviews, you'll discover why these stories continue to resonate with listeners years later.Resources:Breaking Discoveries Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakingDicoveriesContact Jesus: [e-mail]📖 Follow Jeremiah's cancer health updates here:https://www.caringbridge.org/site/569ef3d3-68be-11f1-8790-97fdfd2bbc64🗣️ Share Your StoryHad a Bigfoot encounter or strange experience?Send it to [e-mail] – your story might be featured on the show!🎥 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube🔴 Subscribe here → Bigfoot Society YouTube💬 Leave a comment & let us know your thoughts!📞 Leave a voicemail with your story → Speakpipe (Use multiple voicemails if needed)👥 Share this episode → Watch & Share🎧 More episodes → Podcast Playlist🌲 Recommended: New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters💥 Support the Show & Get Perks✅ Join the community on Supercast – Become a Member✅ Listen ad-free & early on YouTube – Join Here📱 Let’s ConnectInstagram: @bigfootsocietyTwitter: @bigfoot_societyTikTok: @bigfoot.society🧰 Tools & Partners I Use (Affiliate Links)These help support the show at no extra cost to you:Beam (Better Sleep): Try BeamWildgrain (Better Bread): Join HereSeed (Probiotics): Get SeedMedi-Share (Healthcare): Learn MoreLMNT (Electrolytes) Free Sample Pack with your first purchase! : Get LMNTOrganic and non-GMO groceries delivered for lesshttp://thrv.me/uarEhS🎙️ Podcasting Tools:Repurpose.io: Try ItDescript: Sign UpStreamyard: Start RecordingRiverside.fm: Try Riverside🎧 My Audio Interface: View on Amazon☕ Buy Me a Coffee – Support Here🛍️ Grab Some Merch – Shop on Etsy📬 Mailing Address:Bigfoot Society125 E 1st St. #233Earlham, IA 50072

You're listening to Bigfoot Society and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you first-hand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways, the stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. So settle in because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us. Please keep Jeremiah in your prayers as he continues his fight against cancer. For more updates about his medical journey, please go to the Caring Bridge link in the show notes.

Thank you. All right, Bigfoot Society, you've got the privilege of talking to Mr. Jesus Payan today. He is known for a variety of things. He's been a Hollywood actor, stuntman, and a cryptid UFO researcher for over 30 years. Jesus, how are we doing tonight? I am good. That's awesome. Been looking forward to talking to you for quite a while, my friend.

Thank you for coming on this show. I've heard that you've been into a lot of interesting things regarding your Bigfoot research. But let's start right from the beginning. What was it that first got you into researching Sasquatch or Bigfoot? Well, when I first started out, I was about four years old. and my mom had a book called Arthur she's it was Arthur she Clark's book Mysterious World and that was like the first time I ever saw anything

with Bigfoot related in there and I saw the lockness monster I was living in England with my parents and we went to the Rock Nest in Scotland and hunted Nessie for two weeks on the lock and yeah so it started early from you and also it was like I was seen UFOs already you know by that time it's barely between four and five and when I was seeing my first UFOs that I can remember

about a little over hour drive for me was the Rendell Shum Forest incident I don't have you heard of that it's like England's Roswell Exactly There was a lot going on And then when I came to the state Anytime in elementary

We'd have those scholastic little book sales Anything that was you know Cryptid related or UFO older thing I always would try to get. And then it didn't, I would say, it didn't become actual research until after 2000. Okay. So after 2000, that's when I first got to experience it physically by being chased. Me and my friend were chased by what I believe was an adolescent Sasquatch.

Well, for us, it looks like a six-foot-tall, you know, full-grown, you know, scary thing. six-foot-tall Sasquatch is pretty short for especially a male, you know, in that world. But, yeah, that was my first taste of the unknown officially as in cryptid-wise. So my folks, we moved to Rio de Rosa, New Mexico, my mom got a job at the Forest Department, and my sister got a job at the local police department, and we moved into a cabin there. and on the first couple of days we were there I got to hear a bigfoot scream called YOLB, long, high pitch,

almost like if you were going really fast down the road and you'd at least 90, there was no anything to hit. And you just slam on your brakes and just held onto your brakes until you stop. It was a real long. That's the only way I could describe something's kidding.

But it was just way too long. in the mountains and the little straight roads to do that. Everything in the forest shut up. My mom was right there. My dad was right there. My son was right there. And they just got super duper quiet. You know, I was like, what the head? What was I? You know? And then it did it again. And my mom judged so maybe it's Bigfoot.

And I was or not, I think it is. And I ran inside, I jumped on the computer and looked up Bigfoot audio calls, you know, recordings of Sasquatch. And I found one that matched exactly what we just. heard. And then that was when it got really, I guess, addictive. And my mom, working with the Forest Department, they would get reports from campers and some of their, their, their, their, troll guys and Rangers. And, but they couldn't do any investigating because it's not supposed to exist. But they're a lot of tell me about it. You know, I didn't say who reported it, but they

didn't tell me the area it was reported in. My sister would also get, you know, the police department we get Bigfoot reports and we're not going to go check them out because it's not supposed to exist. So I would end up learning all the different areas that they were at and start, that's when I really started doing my research, I'd say, 2003-ish, or what I'd call research versus just thinking it's a real cool and trying to beat up on anything that I could find. Because back then, YouTube wasn't what YouTube is today and the internet wasn't better what it is today. And, you know, unless you're over rich in that time, you know, in 2003. So I'd say that's when I officially started doing actual research into it.

That is absolutely fascinating. What was your age at that time period in 2003? In 2003, I was 33. Okay, that's cool. So you're 33. your mom was getting you the reports from the forestry department, your sister was giving you the stuff from the police department

man, that sounds like an absolute dream and you're living your real life ex-files out there, but all big folk. Times three. Oh my goodness. What was the craziest thing that you saw come in through from your mom or your sister?

I would say a rancher called and he reported that his cattle were freaking on, his dogs started freaking out, so he ran out to the field and he saw a Sasquatch trying to steal a cow and it was grabbing it from behind. I'm guessing you saw it and looked kind of as kind of suspect or suss the way it was grabbing it but it was just trying to, I guess, carry it off, but it grabbed it from behind like, I guess he was going to do a hymler to the cow and the cow was struggling and there was

footprints left in the mud where the cow was moving forward while the Sasquatches, he deal for digging in. And at the time, you know, I hadn't done any casting. I didn't have any casting stuff either. So I didn't even think about that. I was just like, oh, wow, because I found out where it was. I went to go talk to the guy. And yeah, there was traction and everything still. So to me, that one was the weirdest from my mom's from the Forest Department, unofficially, allegedly. And then from my sisters, the police department in Meadows of Downs, She got a phone call from a taxi woman from the reservation. And the lady was, you know, there was other phone calls tonight with her one too

because she was standing in the middle of the street and wouldn't move. And said she wouldn't leave that spot until police came and picked her up because she was so scared. And what happened was this is in the middle of the daytime, like early afternoon. She was walking by the Walgreens and was walking there in the street that goes kind of behind it and downward, you know, down to the canyon. And there was two Sasquatch digging through the trash cans, the big old, you know, those big trash cans with the flippy lids, the stores have. And we had just recently had major fires.

So a lot of the Sasquatch and other animals were coming into town foraging, looking for food because everything was burnt. So she got so freaked out. And when they, when she, you know, she screamed, they looked up and walked right back into, you know, towards the canyon in the forest. And that's when she started freaking out. And people, yeah, she was called the cops. And when my sister got there, she told her the same thing and told her that she's not moving from that spot. Unless she, my sister gave her a ride anywhere but there. She wasn't trying to go anywhere.

You're like specifically just, I don't want to be anywhere near this spot. Please just take me somewhere else, you know? So I thought that was out of the two, those are the most interesting from, from my mom and my sister. now a even more interesting occasion happened on the same area and mescalero patchy I was on the reservation hanging out with some friends were having a little get together and this one lady comes up to me

and she says hey they say that you're into the whole you know Sass bigfoot Sasquatch thing the hairy boys and I was like yeah yeah I time I am and she was with my neighbor she's a single mom and this is a story she told me Her neighbor's a single mom with two kids. They were in their cabin, and a female Bigfoot and her, they believe, with a male child, which was like five feet tall, just know how to use the handle and walked

in her cabin. And her and the kids ran into the room, locked the door, and the mother, Sasquatch, and the child Shasquatch, the juvenile rummaged through her kitchen in the fridge, and we're eating stuff and just making a mess. And after about 30 minutes, they had, they finally had left. And they came out of the room and the kitchen was all messed up. And she said, can you believe it? They left the door open.

Oh, you know, the cold air got out. So she was more mad at the air conditioning situation. Then there was two freaking sexquatch in your house, you know? That checks out, though, you know. It's funny. Wow. It sounds like there's quite a bit of activity. in that area.

Oh, yeah. Through all my research that I figured out, I've been, like, kind of following their trail. Because, like I said, after 2003 later, I ended up becoming a law enforcement investigator, bodyguard, you know, pen detention, federal detention officer, and worked as, you know, a hearing officer.

And so I was able to now, like, really improve my investigative skills and tracking skills and took every opportunity that my mom, mom's, the porch department would give, you know, classes, any type, you know, of anything to do with animals and tracks and, you know, the local fauna. Because of that, I was able to start really putting together where they travel and how far they travel. And I didn't realize that Sasquatch do go through deserts. And they're able to run 100 miles and not a problem for them to just go. And they'll travel all the way to a different mountain range here because there's about 60,

miles in between our mountain ranges in White Tens Missile Range, the Homeland Air Force Base, that leads all the way to El Paso, Texas, and Guides, Mexico. And I followed the trail because there were reports from the military guys doing their

patrol at the missile range, and they report seeing Sasquatch out there at night, and one of them reported seeing one running with their Humvee. They're driving at full speed, you know, I think it was like 45 or 55 or something. And it was keeping up, it was on all fours, just do-do-do-do-do-do

with them. And then you go even farther down the mountain range, which I believe the Oregon mountains, eventually they'll get to the border patrol area where the border is. And they have reports of from the border to tell themselves that night 10 using their flare, you know, so you can see the heat signature. And they would occasionally see the Sasquatch squatted inside a big bush waiting for illegal immigrants. And there's been bodies found out there, you know, dismembered. But they say it's cartel. We don't know.

But I think it's really interesting that in that same area, there's hills there, mountains, smaller mountains, they have tons of old mines, okay? Old silver mines and Troverse mines. And the local urban legend for a long time in that area was that there's a witch that lives in those caves. and if you go up there, she'll catch you and eat you. And the description of the witch is about an eight-foot-tall hairy-covered monster.

Oh, wow. Yeah. I want to verify, I want to, I guess, just make sure I heard it right, something you said a minute ago. So you're saying that there are actual reports you've taken from Border Patrol where Sasquatch is pretty much dispatching or believed to dispatch. illegal immigrants as they cross the border. In El Paso, my family, I have my uncles that was a sheriff in El Paso, Texas, and my other uncle was a police officer, and his son is a police officer. He's a detective there at the department now.

And one of my other uncles was the Border Patrol. So I got to hear from them, and there's actually a video on YouTube with a Border Patrol agent telling the same story. it's on YouTube. He's in uniform and everything. He's talking about them seeing big, yeah, big puts out there. That is absolutely fascinating. Do you get a lot of reports from that Hallam and Air Force Base in the White Sands area?

Not really too bunches. The base has a lot of weird crap going on because of the missile range. Do you remember that movie or hero of the movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind? Sure. that happened here on that missile age it was based on that here so there's there's more UFO reports here in that area of the base

than Sasquatch but they have been you know multiple reports of those weird things being found out there do I think it's was a big Sasquatch files or Bigfoot files with Lynn do you know her name Lynn Oh yeah I know what you're talking about

Yeah, she used to have a playlists of different reports. Like one was like the reports from, you know, Wildman from the 1800s and 1900s reports. And then she had a section where it was military reports. And in her, in one of those videos, she also talks about for Holland Air Force Base, talking about some of the reports that have been turned in from there. So I would say the more, the most reports out here, is normally UFOs and closer to the reservation, it's more common to hear about the Bigfoot situation. It's occasional in Riodoso, which is everything from where I'm sitting right now

in this moment, everything I'm talking about is pretty much within a hour at most. Where I do the majority of my research, which I do it everywhere now, but the majority of my research, I live at the base of the mountain here, and it's in Cloudcroft, New Mexico. and it's about a 15 to 20 minute drive to my location. So it's right right here. And yeah, it's picking and people are coming out more and more willing to talk about this because it's become mainstream, you know,

the Sasquatch deal because of, you know, the internet. But yeah, it's true. It really is. I mean, I've only been in this for about five years and I can even see a difference over the last five years. It just continues to become more and more mainstream. stream. The focus of the interview is definitely going to be on Bigfoot, but I am going to ask a question just because if I don't, my listeners would be like, why didn't you ask a question?

So, but we'll twist it, you see. So you're, you're greatly known for playing a role in the show Breaking Bad, correct? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So during the filming of that show, did the topic of Bigfoot ever come up? Yes. Do you have any stories you can share? Well, the, when you're in between scenes, sometimes there's an hour in between or less or more,

depending on how technical the scene is and they have to reset, you know, everything, those explosions or gunshots, whatever. So I would always be bored as hell. And I'm curious and I'd go, you know, talk to the other, you know, actors and they're like, hey, man, believe in Bigfoot. You know what I mean? And they'd like, no, do you? And I'm like, mm-hmm.

And then I would tell him, you know, experience that I've had. So the one person that showed the most interest in it was R.J. Middy. He plays Walt Jr. on Breaking Bad. And, yeah, me and him ended up being roommates and living in LA together. So he was the most interested in, you know, in Bigfoot. and wanted to hear everything I had to talk about it and wanted to plan a hunt. And then his mom said no, that that would not be good for his career. And then, yeah, I got offered two different TV shows.

Do you remember the TV show, Sons of Anarchy? Sure, yep, yep. Okay, well, there was a girl and an actress named Kristen Renton. She was one, the two main characters, they were brothers, and one was named Toby. And he had like a long beard. his wife on the show, girlfriend, they were going to do

a big foot hunting show with me and her because it became so, they heard so much about you know, me and being connected with that stuff. And I thought,

but it didn't work out. She ended up doing some other project and that never happened. Then I got offered another show that I was going to be doing it with Megan Fox. And me and it was going to be

us doing investigations around the world of all the weird stuff, you know? Not just Bigfoot, not just beautiful, not just go, just a little bit of everything. And it was all ready to go. And then Victoria's Secret offered her,

oh, that was like, quarter million dollars to go do a runway tour with them or something. And it paid twice as much as they were offered her to do the show. So she went with the Victoria's Secret Thing and then met her new husband that you know today Machine Gun Kelly.

What could have been? That would have been a very interesting show. And I mean, who knows you may even get something offered in the future. I mean, you're getting some. I just got married, so that didn't work out too well. My wife was like, no, no. She was not important.

She was like, come on. Yeah, big food. You know? So, yeah, it was like the producers wanted me and Kristen from the sense of anarchy to spend two weeks in the forest. No cameras, no nobody else just meeting her, and they wanted me to teach her for two weeks.

Every single thing possibly I knew about hunting and Sasquatch, you know, so for the show. And that was just, did knock out, you know? No, no, that would have not made it better. I'm a professional. I'm a professional. I'm not a dog. I'm a faithful man, but I don't blame any woman that would be my same, but doing that. It's going to be like, no, sorry, buddy.

If that had happened, that two-week period, what kind of things would have you had brought up during that time? Well, first thing I would show her is how to recognize an area that has squatch in it more than likely. that's how I try I don't just go to random spots First of course I'll I'll look up the areas where there's been reports But I only go in certain areas that I see The tell tell signs of Sasquatch

Which is their tree liens They're wooden hieroglyphs You know pretty much That they're used to talk to each other They're not for us humans To know we're not supposed to know We know exactly what's going on with them So that would be the first thing to show

that if you see these specific things like there's a tree lane with giant X's, trees that are sticking to the ground upside down, things that humans can't do without a major tractor or say a crane. And if, you know,

you're like, okay, well, somebody came in here with a tractor or crane, they could move these things. And, you know, I would tell her, okay, if that's the case, then where did it have to go through to get to that? spot. And if those trees are knocked down for it to go through there, then probably wasn't one of

those things. Anything that you see that's odd in the forest, you got to ask yourself first, can a human do it? And if a human could possibly pull it off, then you got to ask yourself, why? Why would they do that? And how far are you into the mountains? Like, would somebody go, man, this would be so funny. I'm going to make a wood structure. And hopefully in the next like 10 years, somebody accidentally walk onto it and you think it's a big foot you know what it's like okay because if you ever lifted wood if you're out there or you've done any wood chapping um a log that's long that's longer than four feet and 10 inches thick they get pretty heavy you know so when you're dealing with with giant teepees 40 foot 30 foot 50 foot tps and these logs you go there and you got to look and see

did this just fall over is it snowfall You know, is it a dying tree? Is it a disease tree? If the root did not come out of where it's at, it was brought there. And if it was brought there, could a human have done it? And if a human couldn't have done it, which animal in that forest could have done it. And if you can't figure out all the known species in that forest

that possibly somehow strangely could pull that off, which usually isn't the case, then you fall into it might have been a big foot. Is it fall into the normal, quote unquote, normal tree structure situations that are commonly found in big foot areas? Then you can say, hey, I think it's a big foot. And then from there, that's when you go deeper into looking for tracks, for, you know, seats where they'll sit, you know, and eat up in onus from the pine cones and watching certain areas, stuff like that. like that to look out for and to always I would tell her not to throw out the was it the baby with the bathwater because a lot of big foot researchers do this they'll see smaller things small structures

or something and they'll just automatically but yeah no it's too that's too way too low it was a deer a deer broke that branch a deer did this it was a deer you can't throw away what you're finding because they have children. And how do we teach our children to do what we want to do? We show them and they copy us. So I'm a big old Sasquatch and I'm making a big old, you know,

TP or say like a wigwam, a little shelter or doing the grid patterns with the wood on the, you know, making these weird strange grids with the fallen trees. And then you find the little version of them more than likely. It's either a juvenile or,

one of the little saskwatches, the little feet. They look like saskwatches with their tiny, they're like dwarves. Yeah. There's so much that I would have the future, but I'd have two full weeks to go through it all, and that would have been enough. Have you gotten to the point where you are, you know exactly what Bigfoot is, or you've made the decision in your mind, okay, this is what Bigfoot is, this is what it's all about? Yeah.

Well, one, without a question, it's real. Big foot's real. Two, I believe it's a human. I don't think it's local fauna or just a big, just a gorilla or a chimpanzee. Not that they're stupid or anything, but it's just, it's not just an animal. It's actually, it's a human.

And it's just a really hairy, large one that cannot do everything we can do easily and survive, you know, way easier. But I really do believe that the Sasquatch were the first version of humans. And at some point, they got, well,

if you study, you know, ancient history and the Samarians and all the different Native American stories of the first ones that were here were mischievous. They were too big. They were too strong.

They didn't want to listen. They were causing tons of problems. And call them gods, call them presidents, call them whoever was in charge, got pissed off and pretty much kind of banned them

from interacting with human us and they were sent all to the depths of the forest around the world there were to mingle amongst man again and we're getting now people are finding a bunch of big giant hairy dudes in these forests but it's way more complicated than that I think

it's not just really common it's that have survived from way back when because there's reports of them being with aliens or grays or Bertillians, whatever you want to call them, demons, all the same little word guys are the big heads

and those big, you know, those big, omenship eyes. Some are green, some are gray, some are white, some are dark brown, some bright. They've been seen with them. UFO reports are often follow a bigfoot sighting or orbs glowing. Then you've got the people that say, you know, they can

jump into different dimensions. I think that they're like humans in the sense that some are wild, imbred, and just kind of like Neanderthalman, but way, way more primitive. And then I think there's some that are like us in the hippie sense, make love, not war, we love you, we care about humans. They try to protect us. There's the stories that where you find, you know, hear little kids or somebody was saved by one. and then there's the ones that hate us with a passion

that'll eat us out of anger, not because they're hungry. And then like I said, the list goes on. There's ones that I'm guessing our military has, that they're messing with. Like I said, there's so much to them that it's not, I can't just stick them in one little section, but for sure they are real and some sort of human because, you know, we worked on the DNA of Sasquatch

with the whole genome project and it's half human, period. The other half? We're not, the military knows, but the mother, the mitochondrial DNA was a human mother. The first one, when they were first made,

which goes to the story with the Samarians of when they created men. And the first one was covering hair. They made. It was an art of physical dissemination and they combined it with a, a human mother and a hominid from where they were occupying apparently local hominids for slavery reasons.

Some really fascinating stuff. And the thing I love about the topic is that there's literally something for everyone in the field of Bigfoot. I think people that aren't in the field of Bigfoot, they're like, oh, it's just it's just what But when you start looking into it, you're like, oh, there's so many different ways I could look into this. Now, you kind of mentioned military stuff for a bit. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. Do you think, you know how right now we're kind of living through a UFO disclosure? It's happening for the last few years.

And now it's becoming more and more, even as we're talking. Do you think maybe we will sometimes maybe will live, through that with Bigfoot or Sasquatch? I would say not by them telling us. If it does happen, it'll be because they can't control a situation

with them. The only way I would see it coming out because it's way too useful as an asset to the military versus, you know, like the UFO thing. UFO thing we can't really touch. It's not in our back.

yard. It's very, very elusive, you know, beyond, you know, looking in the forest. And of course, they have a lot of technology themselves. They're using UFO-wise that they can get away and say, oh, it's aliens, you know? But with the Sasquatch

thing, I think they're more interested in the whole DNA aspect of it and using it for some type of not cool things, you know? Oh. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure, because I've, you know, you'll hear some of there's no evidence.

All the roots of similarity pictures, right? But if you actually do the research and take the time to go the research, there's more than enough evidence times 10, you know, times 20 squared to the root up, you know what I mean? Right, yeah. We got footprints with dermal ridges that are not human. The dermal ridges run the same direction as the great apes,

you know, like gorillas and chimps. We got video, we've got pictures. We've got good pictures. and everybody complains about, there's no clear pictures. Well, we got clear pictures and then everybody said, it's a fake because it can be real.

They're too good. Yeah, I mean. So, like, a lot of people out there that, you know, I'm going to hear, I'm going to say that word, odd standing. Oh, yeah. No, it's cool.

That, like, pisses up a lot of people. No, I know. There's people all over the world that are just going to click on this right now. It's like, it's fine. Talk about Todd. Don't worry about it, guys. I want you all,

y'all just listen, and I'll give you all some good reasons to keep on listening. All right. So I think there's two reasons a lot of people don't like Todd's sending. That's a huge problem in the Bigfoot world and every other cryptid and paranormal group out there.

Oh, it's so much drama. Silly drama. Everybody judges everybody by their personality, not on their evidence, but by their personality. and if they like them on it. Outstanding, okay? He's abrasive.

I mean, no disrespect to Utah. I know you're passionate and you're doing what you're doing. But a lot of people don't like how passionate he is. You know, when he was out hunting with Jeff Meldrum, you know, Dr. Jeff said, you know, he's a little, he's just really, a little overly passionate, you could say. And it's like, look, it's obviously Bitcoin. look it's obviously bigfoot

which because he's seeing it out there it's obvious to him but Dr. Jeff he isn't ready to just declare stuff you know what I mean he works at a university still he's got to worry about that stuff but so I listen to everybody's complaints

about Todd Standing and their complaints the biggest one they said it's fake and I ask them why do you think it's fake they'll tell me oh there's footage of of him faking it I'm like, really show it to me.

Crickets. Okay, let's throw that out to water because nobody's been able to show me the footage that proves that he's fake, you know? The other, the next answer is, oh, his sister-in-law works in the movie industry as a makeup artist. So it was made by her. She made, you know, the mask they put on Todd, right? And it's Todd standing himself, pretending to be big foot and taking pictures of himself. Well, luckily, I'm a professional, and I've been in the movie industry for going on 20 years now. And I know special effects.

I went to cosmetology for makeup a long time ago. Those are two different departments. The makeup lady, she dust your forehead and your nose so it's not too shiny for the camera. She'll glue on maybe a fake mustache or a goatee or put on a wig on. you. She's not a creature creator. They don't make animatronics. They don't make masks. You need special effects. People to do that. It's not cheap whatsoever, okay, to do that. He does not scream wealthy to me. Just that's just personal, my own opinion, to where he would be wasting the money to do that on what it would cost. Do you remember the, the,

the movie, The Dark Crystal. Sure, yeah, classic Jim Henson movie, right? Exactly. So I'm friends with a guy that worked with Jim Henson on that movie. Michael McCormick, okay? He is a puppeteer, you know, for Jim Henson and helps, you know, build those type of things. And for that movie, they need a little bit of everything. Some things are animatronics.

Some things are people in suits. Some things are puppets, you know, in that movie. So I asked him, I said, Michael, do me. you're favor. I'm going to send you some images on a video. I need to know something. Is it a mask? Is it a puppet?

Or is it animatronic? Or do you think it's an animal? That's all I want to know. And if you think it's animatronic or a puppet or a mask, what kind of

budget would I need to pull that off? Okay. Now, one of the images of the Sasquatch, it's next to a tree which has a certain size of needles, you know, the

leaves of their needles, of a specific type of evergreen. You can literally figure out the size of the head of that, whatever it is, by measuring those needles next to its head, which

it shows when you do that that it's a giant freaking head. You know what I'm saying? It's not A doable side's head. It's huge. And so Michael said it's not a puppet for sure. It's not a mask. And if it's animatronic, which he doesn't think it was,

for that size of a head with movable blinking eyes, and that's large. And you have to have a whole team to run it. If you ever seen that type of stuff actually done in Hollywood, it, you literally have five to ten people all working different parts of that animal, fake animal, whatever you want to call it, animatronic things, to make it all work together to be believable for an audience. And you're looking at a million dollars to build something like that

and have a whole team to do that. You know? So a bunch of stuff points to me that, no, it's not fake. Sure, he may be a bracelet, if you may be. you know, considered a jerk or whatever, but his sister-in-law, whatever, makeup people don't do that kind of stuff. And if she was doing that kind of stuff, it would be an IMDB with all her credits as a special effects artist and creating creature cool stuff. You know what I mean? Because if that's animatronic and fake or puppets, she needs an award. She needs to be working in Hollywood way more than she is,

instead of putting on a lipstick and eye shadow on people. And dying gray hair is black. You know what I mean? That's the only reason why I think, and I also measured the picture. There was a, look, you're just standing under a mask. If you measure the eye of that Sasquatch,

the main one that he shows, you know, and you check the distance between the eyes, I went to art college. I went to commercial art college. I know anatomy. I know the distance of humans have one eye in between. the eyes we have. The size of your left eye

and the same size of your right eye, unless you've got, you know, you're born, you know, malformed. It's one eye in between. If you measure the one, you know, the eye on that, you know,

alleged Sasquatch, it fits three of its eyes in between the two eyes. Oh, wow. Which is physically impossible for a human. Unless you've got like elephant man syndrome or something. Right. I mean?

So I don't care of, people are jerks. There's a lot of people in the Bigfoot community that I can't stand. Ooh, we just want to be like, smash them just so hard. But that does not have anything to do with real evidence, any type of evidence. And we are dying for real evidence,

and we're going to throw it out some of the best visual photography ever of Sasquatch, outside of, you know, government sources. I would try a little harder to scrutinize it a little bit better than just doing a gift image overlay and saying that his history law made it. You know what I mean? If that's all the evidence you got, come on, guys. We're going backwards. We're going backwards.

That should be like, you know, cares if he's a weirdo or whatever people want to call them. Whatever, you know? It's like imagine people getting pissed off at Dr. Jeff Meldraudra. because his beard. Well, I don't like his Sasquatch theories and his work on feet because he's got a stupid bird. It's like, come on, guys.

Really? You guys are killing me, dude. Well, I like the mustache better a little bit. You know, mustache meltdown. It's classic. I'd say definitely. This Todd's standing discussion is such an interesting discussion.

I will tell you this. I did interview a gentleman who had a wild encounter outside of Oak Ridge, Oregon. And the way he was very hesitant to describe the face of it.

And he was like, I know I'm going to get, I'm going to get crud for this. But I will tell you that what Todd standing captured in that photo is what I saw that day. And I know a lot of people, after I say this, will not, pretty much not take my encounter seriously, because

there's just so many, so many people. Yeah, it's, it's weird. It's such an interesting topic, but I've never talked to Todd personally. Right. But it's such a weird, how it's, it's such a polarizing conversation, right? Right. Well, you've heard of Dr. Bendinagle? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, a lot of people love that guy. A lot of people love his research, right? So that's all open with. I love to do this because it's so funny. I'll tell you, you heard of Dr. Bendernernernerner. They're, oh. I love that old man. That's his, rest of his soul and, you know, RIP and, oh, man, he was the real deal, right?

Uh-huh. Then I'd be like, well, you know, he went out with Todd Standing, and Todd showed him videos that he had to be able to anybody else of says assquatches. And Dr. Bendernagle said, it's real, but he has. It's not fake. And his own professional opinion, Outstanding is not making it. up. So are you saying that you think Dr. Bendernagle's a fake too?

Or is he just a old stupid old man that you guys don't trust? Or are you going to trust the 30 plus years of his work knowing this creature and deciding for himself while he was up there actually with Todd going to the areas and seeing all the footage

that he had? Is he scared to show more people because everybody's all, oh, it's fake, you know what I mean? Right. It's a very interesting conversation, especially it's tough when some of the parties involved are no longer with us, so you can't ask them, you know? Well, he's on video saying it. Yeah, right. He's literally on the air saying that.

Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? So it's like, huh? Right? See, like, my issue is, I don't care what other people think. This, guys, a lot of people have gone out with me hunting or they've invited them. me to go with them and for whatever reason I'm a weird magnet okay and I get interaction a lot especially at nighttime with all these people that I've gone with and people that they don't like me

and they get mad because they've had nothing going on and I go with them and then all of a sudden there's action whatever you want to call it so a lot of people they can't say oh he's making it up because it happened when I was with him I've got pictures of freaking big foot's looking in my tent. I've seen those. Two of them. Yeah. Yeah.

And a friend, a funny looking green guy, you know. And I've got more photos. Nobody has, not too many people I've really seen more recent. Because the original, the tent thing was in 2017. But this was it last year. Yeah, I got my new phone. It's, you know, the Android Ultra 13, 20, for whatever super zoom night pain shut phones it costs way too much and I'm still

a nine type of phone and I was I took my parents out camping me and been camping together in years and we went to an area where there was reports you know the campers saying that people someone was throwing rocks in their tanner and you know the usual you know silliness and bigfoot's like do and brow's like I'm not hunting I swear let's just have enjoy ourselves and yeah eventually started hearing weird crap and I was like, well, now it's a good time to try out this night, you know, night shot that it has, but there's a night vision and nothing like that. It's just, it's a five second delay and it takes in all the light possible. If there's absolutely no light, it don't

work. That's at least some kind of light source, even in a small, small, fire an account, does amazing. And I, I brightened them up and sure enough, I have a little, I have a little, you know, it looks like a juvenile Sasquatch a branch you know you remember those those red little monkeys

in a barrel that you hang with each other oh yeah it was in that clothes exactly hanging down house of branch and then

but this is the wildest night because I experience a whole bunch of different stuff much of big what stuff for years and years and this was the first time though that I ever got in a picture

what I believe is a werewolf wolfman dogman, whatever they want to call him. They're going on the same night. A wolf person, dude, look him, just mean,

a big foot with his eyes blowing, and on the right side of big foot, a gray. So, like, what's going on? You know what I mean? How can I categorize that? You know, it's like, I already had, in 2017,

showing two Sasquatch with a green, gray, whatever you want to call him, a reptilian, red eye. as green skin I don't know I don't know and I've been blessed enough because of my my movie career

in being a semi-celebrity a lot of different researchers they'll they want to meet me they want to talk to me they want to invite me out when they're hunting and stuff and they opened a bunch of doors to being involved with them from serious

you know cool things of researchers and working with Jim's good on and being on the Falcon project before it fell apart The Gino Project, you know. Yeah, you know, I, you know, I work with Jeff Meldrum, working with other anthropologists. Having anthropologists, you know, heads of different universities, coming to me asking me questions about it.

It's like, that's wild. That's pretty wild stuff, you know? And I've seen them myself. I know it's real. I videotape, big, not great footage, you know, nothing amazing, but it was a Sasquatch. I was even the one that saw it. we're driving home, you know, on the reservation, Navajo Reservation,

the couple that I was giving a ride to Walmart to get some food, the wife, she's a, we're talking, we're talking about Bigfoot, and she's like, hey, look,

there's one right there. And I was like, what? We turned to the right and sure enough. There's a big foot just walking down the irrigation show, do, do, do, too,

and jumped out and filmed it, you know? But, yeah, there's just too much evidence that I've gotten in. I'm, I'll let anybody scrutinize my stuff. I don't mind tell the truth.

I don't care at all. I ain't worried and scared about nothing. I'm already a public figure. People ask me, I'm worried about it, destroying my career. And I'm like, what are they going to destroy it? Right. They're not going to want me to play a drug dealer.

They won't let me play a murderer, carrying bodies in the desert. Oh, no. Not the scary guy. Come on. Whatever, man. All the reason I got into Hollywood was because I had to pay bills. I found out I had a daughter.

And I was like, I need to do something that's going to make me money. I don't have the money to go to 12 years of school for a lawyer or a doctor. You know, I need to get into a business that I know I can make a good amount of money to take care of my parents and the kids. And yeah, that's how I got in that because I knew I was so stereotyped by society because I'm a big giant Mexican. And I know, ballheaded, got tattoos, got tear drives, a whole, you know, gambit. and yeah I've been screwed with I faced tons of years in prison on false charges

never been convicted of a felony once but I faced a lot of many years on stupid crap because I matched the description you know and so I was like well man Hollywood should eat it up they only got normal size of Mexicans you know what I mean I'm a giant one

in the realm of normal size of Mexicans you know six foot three is huge you know but yeah so that's you know it wasn't my dream to be an actor I wasn't like you know taking acting class oh, I wish. No, I was, I went to my first call as an extra on a Steven Seagall movie,

and I was the only giant Mexican where he was supposed to be in East LA beating up his Mexican gang, but they were a normal size, so he was beating up little kids. He's six foot five, you know? And I was already a bodyguard or professional fighter, law enforcement, you know, all that stuff. And I was like, hey, yeah, dude, I'm down to fight them, you know? And they were like, okay, come on, come meet him. and we met. He tried me out for my acting skills,

you know, just some improv. And he liked it. It was good enough for his movie. And he said, I want you to meet me at my hotel tonight so we can fight. They wanted to see what I could do. So I was like, hell yeah.

I don't care what anybody says about students ago. He's a fake martial artist. No, he's a 6.15 giant that is very strong. I don't care how chubby he is or not. But he is the only Caucasian man ever given the permission by the Akusa in Japan to teach Akito as a master. Fake martial arts can't do that. You know what I mean?

But yeah, so that's how I got into Hollywood. Like that, I became just a bad guy to fight and get shot and carry people. But yeah, so I'm not concerned about that because this is all the Bigfoot stuff, the UFO stuff, the ghost stuff, all the weird stuff. did I experience and, you know, share with everybody, that was happening before any job. I had it. Exactly. Oh, it's such an interesting path that you've gone down. It's really cool.

There's a few things I want to circle back around real quick to make sure that they don't disappear. So that picture that you took just last year where it's like the Bigfoot, the alien and the dogman type creature, is that it sounds like that's just, that's not. a public thing at all? Not officially. I haven't put up the video yet. Are you able to receive pictures

do you want on the phone or no? I mean, you can, my email, I have an email you could send it to. Yeah, it's Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. Okay. Yeah, I'll send you those pictures and you can trip out of them.

All right, cool. You know? And that's the thing, I show everybody, because I do enhance images. I'll tell them, but I will let everybody know exactly what free app

I'm using on my phone. Right. The process in the original picture, I am happy to show them all that. And on my videos on my channel, on my YouTube channel, I do that. I don't want people being weird. Look at it. It's obviously been messed with it. It's like, yes, yes, it has been brightened.

It has been sharpened. I have added slight contrast. I have, you know, adjusted the ambience so you guys can see better. I know it's there. But not everybody can see. what I'm seeing right now. So I need to bring it out a little bit better so you can see.

Because like, like I'll send you some of the, like the original shots before brightening and stuff. Like with the two bigfoot's in my tent, no, looking in the tent. Some people haven't seen, I don't just have those couple pictures of them looking in the tent.

I've got to where they were freaking out the guy that I was with. He was about, you know, like on the verge of the official panic attack, I shine the flashlight in their face. And you can see one of the Sasquatch grimace. Oh, my goodness. In the picture, he's grimace.

And like, that's right, you know what I mean? If it was a mask, how the hell did it do that? Wow. How can you grimace? You know what I mean? And then like, you've heard of think or thunker? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's great.

Okay, it's a good friend of mine. Oh, is he really? Yeah. And I think he's gotten too concerned with people what they say he's always trying to prove to them and he's like in his videos they're like

more about that than just the research anymore I hope he works that out and stuff's keeping the crap what people say he just does what he does because I love I love what he does you know but he came out with a

a way to measure the faces of Sasquatch and their arms and legs is mainly you know concerned with. But yeah, when you measure the face of the majority of actual possible Sasquatch images, they're not human proportions, you know, for normally, unless of course there's, you know, they're born with, you know, mild formed. Like if you get your finger right now and you put it under your nose, the top of it should touch your nose and the bottom of your finger should touch your upper lip or at least close. Saskwatch,

Not all of them, but I'll say the majority from what we're seeing, you fit two fingers, not one, but two. That's where their mouth begins under that part. When he came out with that, it was after my incident in 2017 with those images. I used his anything he does for the face measurements. They fit. They fit. Wow.

How would I know in advance that he was going to invent that thing by scrutinize? scrutinizing all these different images and videos, how would I know that? Three years earlier. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I can't wait too to see those. What was it that you did with Jane Goodall?

Well, she was on the Falcon Project. Oh, right. Yeah. And she was going to be part of the Geno project, too. Can you explain real quick what the, a lot of people are not going to know what the Falcon Project is, I think. Okay. So once upon a time.

a long, long time ago. Right. There was a guy named William Barnes. He was always cool to me. I'm sorry everything went crappy with it, you know, with the situation, because he meant well,

got dealt the hard hand. But the Falcon Project was a, they were going to send up an airship drone, but not the typical drone with just, you know, the propellers, but it looks like actual blank panda. And they were going to send it up way high and it would have all the different

abilities, you know, LIDAR, I don't know about lighter, but, you know, night vision, heat sensing, and all that fun stuff, and they were going to have sent it over areas. So Bigfoot wouldn't know that they were passing by watching what's down there. And they had multiple individuals that were going to be on the ground. I was one of those individuals that was going to be there for six months in the forest. Yeah. living there and doing all the research with several other people that have been chosen.

And then you had the anthropologists that were going to report to all our information and what we're getting the evidence of. But unfortunately, it pulled all the funding. And people showed up to the locations. And there was no one there because nobody had told them that that had happened, unfortunately. me and luckily somebody reached out to me before I had it out and said hey dude don't come it's not happening it pulled the plug you know but it was a really huge thing that was going on it was there's lots of excitement for it I was excited for it I was looking forward to just being stuck in the forest

for six months just you know I love that kind of stuff you know but yeah so it fell apart and then later came the genome project there was a 100 study. We're working with Oxford University on the DNA, the Sasquatch. And there was 100 samples given. And then everybody started attacking Mabel Kitchen because she started telling other stuff

beyond her work as a DNA expert. And people, once again, are judging people on their personality or they just don't like them. not under actual physical evidence or, you know, the real evidence that they put forth. There is a lot of jealousy in the field as well. Ooh. Oh, yeah.

I've seen that in the last five years destroy relationships that should have lasted for decades. Yeah, that's all I'll say about that. But it's, it can be, yeah, just guys, don't get jealous. It's in every, it's in everything. It is. In film. regular jobs.

You know, it doesn't matter where you are. Humans are just, they can be so stupid sometimes. You know what I mean? It's the same everywhere. It doesn't matter. Because I'm involved with so many different types of the paranormal, and I've been, you know, an expert for the UFO TV shows.

I dealt with, you know, you know, you've got an honest, you ghost. I'm a pastor. I've been cleansings in houses. I deal with my own issues with ghost systems. I've seen UFOs. I've seen the little gray guys. I've seen so much. It's just the big foot thing is what people find most interesting,

I guess, that I get requested to talk about most. Sure. You know? And yeah, that's why I don't care. It's like, y'all can hate me all you want. This is my normal life. I can't turn it off. I'm just sharing with you guys what I'm experiencing

in what I believe is going on. I am not here to prove anything to anybody. I'm just here to share what I'm finding out in the experience. Have you done any research or gone on any expeditions outside of the Southwest? I've done Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, Washington, Oregon, and Oklahoma. Wow. I've got plans already set up for Florida. and upstate New York.

My research and my studies, I study every content on the United States of all possible SAS watch related information. Where did you go to in Oklahoma? The Comanche Reservation

out there. Okay. What's it called? The Honobia or Anobi or Anobo? Oh, you went to Honobi? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So in that, kind of that area, you know what I mean? And, yeah, the Bigfoot's up there are mean. It's a trip, man, because like I said, there's so many different kinds, you know, that are out there. Like, if you heard the story of the Tooby brothers, you know, that whole Sasquatch massacre war between the natives and the cavalry and the Bigfoot's, that's some wild stuff. You know, the Honabi incident has some wild stuff. But like over here, you never hear the violent stuff. There's people that have gone missing, I'm sure.

But you never hear in this area of violent attacks or cannibalism. In Florida, it seems like they have more of the more animalistic ape activity versus the, and much smaller, too. But there is giant ones out there. but the ones that mostly reported are, you know, six to seven feet at most. You know, over here, the biggest one we at work with J.C. Johnson, again, I got pictures of that. It's like, at least, I know this sounds ridiculous, but the picture of the Sasquatch that I'm talking about is between 20 and 25 feet tall. Wow.

I mean, I've heard of them that big, I said, gentlemen, two gentlemen up in Oregon. and, well, no, that was track size. I'm sorry, 23-inch track size. But what you said was in like Alaska, Canada, up there, that's where you hear about the big ones. But here in New Mexico, that's unheard of. The only reason why I say it's that big is because the picture that we have of Sasquatch, it's sitting on its butt, okay?

It's sitting on the ground, and its legs are kind of crossed sort of, and it's sitting in an area where these they're called the juniper trees they're like evergreen type juniper trees the tallest ones grow to about 12 feet the average is between 10 and 11 feet of these trees and it's like if you ever approach a mountain or a forest between the flatlands and the main forest you usually have halfway sized trees not to use that actual forest to get the big boys, right? So that's the same situation here. So these

trees that it's sitting next to okay, fully growing trees come up to its chest. The lower part of its chest and it's sitting down. I know that these other trees in the side of the trees

because my mom was to the forest department and I went there and showed them the picture. I was like, don't worry about whatever that is, but what kind of trees are those? where is it at? I was like, Madrid area. You're like, well, those are Guterber trees.

I'm like, well, how big did they grow? They're like, what is that? I'm not that worry about that. I'm just worried asking about the trees. You know? That's funny. Yeah. When you're in Oklahoma, in Honubi,

did you have any interesting things happen out there? Honestly, I didn't. Just stories. People are saying, you know, what they were strange. Gosh, you're okay. Yeah, so I needed more time there. That's the thing.

I was only there for a week maybe. I was doing more, because I worked with, you know, I used to work with a lot of the reservations and, you know, doing powwows and spending time with family and stuff. So I was there, I wasn't there for Bigfoot. I was there to spend time with the Comanche's, and I drum and sing with them. So, yeah, it's like you said, it's just part of my life, honestly.

now. It's so strange. I want to, there's this Bigfoot quote unquote museum up here where I live that opened up and they did it for money. They didn't really know the Bigfoot left. You know what I mean? So they're already putting it for sale and I'm hoping

to be able to buy it and do it right. Oh wow. That's really cool. Yeah. It would be so fun. And the connections you have, you'd be able to really set that up good. I mean, yeah. That's cool. Jesus, this has been a really fun chat.

Thank you so much for coming on the show. As we start to wind down, there's a few ending questions. Did you have any final thoughts or how people can keep up to date with all these different things you've got going on? Sure. If you go on YouTube and type in the search section, you can type in. in Breaking Discoveries, that's the name of my channel. And Breaking Bigfoot is the series on my channel because I do other things too, but the majority of stuff is

Bigfoot related, but that's Breaking Bigfoot. So you can type in either one, Breaking Discoveries or Breaking Bigfoot, and you'll see a picture of a Sasquatch with my face on it. And you'll see the majority of everything I talked about tonight on that channel. I'd say that'd be the most direct source. I don't, I have like 90, videos or something. I only make a video when I have new evidence. If I don't have new evidence

if it takes a year, I don't see a video for a year. I see a case that's so interesting, I've got to do a breakdown myself. But yeah, Breaking Discoveries is the YouTube channel, the Breaking Bigfoot series. It's there. If you want to hear the podcasts that I've done,

not all of them, but a lot of them just go to my playlists and you'll see the podcast, interviews, some of the interviews are from my movie stuff. There's another playlist called paranormal 360. That's more of my UFO videos that I've filmed and stuff like that. But yeah, if you just want to learn about me, go on Google or whatever search engine you're using and type in Jesus Pion Jr.

Actor or just Jesus Jr. actor, Breaking Dad's Gonzo. Any of those things will bring up the ridiculous amount of stuff that I do. Yeah, that's me. I'm here. I'm reachable. You can reach me on Facebook. Just search my name, Jesus Brown Jr. If you want to write me an email, it's kind of a complicated email,

but it's Breaking Badz Gonzo at G-M-F-20 at Gmail.com. So it's B-R-E-A-K-I-N-G-B-A-D-S-G-O-N-420 at Gmail.com. If you want to share your experience, images, video, hit me up. I don't hate. They need me to enhance any pictures or anything you think. It might be something interesting. I don't charge. I happen to do it for free.

I just want to further the research and all that we're doing and it's strange and unknown. That's fantastic. And I think probably because you have a heart like that, that's why you have all the stuff that happens to you because you've got that pure heart. That's just my personal opinion. But I've seen people that are in it for much.

they're usually not going to experience a whole bunch. So anyways, that's another conversation. I'm broke with a joke. I do tattoos for money and whatever they're out. I can do for work. I work my ass off of my family and I am not rich by any means. And I haven't made any good money off of the Bigfoot world. Like, no, no.

I just do it because I love it. And I want to get the truth out there if we can, you know. I love it. Well, Jesus, thank you so much for coming on. It has been a pleasure chatting to you tonight. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be on your show, brother, and let's do it again soon. You've got the privilege of talking to Mary today.

Mary's an individual that reached out to me from the great state of Oklahoma with some interesting things that she's experienced over the year. So, Mary, it's great to have you on the show today. Nice to be here. Absolutely. We were talking a little bit beforehand, and it sounds like we'll do. definitely be getting into some interesting things. Feel free to take us back to when all this interesting stuff happened to you in your life. I think the first time I'd actually experienced anything Bigfoot-wise was when I was growing up on Grand Lake and I lived with my

grandmother and we would pick cuckleberries down in the summertime and we would be out in the woods and we would hear strange knocks or just strange noises that didn't sound like normal wildlife noises. And anytime we would hear them, she'd be like, okay, we need to move to this area or we need to start thinking about moving back out. And I would ask her why, and she'd be like, well, they don't like us being around. And that was what she left it out. You're young, you don't ask questions.

But you learned to listen for. the knocks and then at times you would hear the whooping and during certain times of the year there would be a lot of it a lot of activity of the whooping and knocks late at night especially early summers there was always seemed to be would increase and you could go out into the woods and you would see you know footprints sometimes or you'd see tree branches down where yesterday they had been just fine um you would see you would see tree branches down where yesterday they had been just fine um you would see where the undergrowth was kind of pushed. I remember finding areas where the berries were just picked bare,

but over in another area, they were fine. And just there was all kinds of just, I want to say at that time I felt like it was weird, but you just got used to it. You know, you learn to listen for the notch, learn to listen for whoops. if you heard any of that you didn't you know stay in that area you moved and while I was young the first time I actually saw one my grandmother

myself and her best friend who was a devout Christian never said bad words didn't do anything wrong you know I didn't think she'd be the type to believe in a big foot we were out on this one ridge it was really way back into the woods I'd say two to three miles almost to the lake and we were standing there and we looked across the hauler and I saw something up in the cave cross from the holler and the bluff

and she was standing there beside me looking in that direction I'm like do you see what I see because I wasn't going to tell her she wasn't going to say I wasn't seeing I knew what I would see him was there was a big foot standing there and she goes yeah I think that's a big foot and I was like it is a big foot and she goes it's looking at us I'm like down she goes we might need to you know move out of this area where they can't see us because it was just staring at us there was a bigger one and then when we were moving backwards we glanced back and there was two others two smaller ones up in there and we went to go find my grandmother and bring her over to show her and they were gone and at that point my grandmother goes we need to leave and as I got older my grandmother said that she had been taught when she was little that you just, if you hear them or see something of them, leave.

Just go back to where you came. They won't bother you as long as you're not messing with them or in the area where they're at. You would get used to see in like tree limbs that are too high up for a person to knock down or pull down. I would say pull because it didn't really look like they were knocked over. It looked like they were deliberately broken along paths. and it looked like they were along game paths where you would see the dears and stuff come through. I know the one thing I did notice was there's a huge spring

down on Grand Lake. It's called the Great Spring. The Indians used it because it was a wonderful water source. The water there is so pure and fresh tasting. It's amazing. But you could always see where they were around it. You could see the water source. footprints of it and they would

footprints would go back up the hills and you could when you got down there is just a different feeling in that area it's like you felt that they were watching to see what you were going to do but I was never really scared of them

because it just wasn't something it was just oh they're here pay attention for them you know they would get loud at night. You know, you could hear them during the knocks and the whoops really loud during the summertime. Fall and winter wasn't too bad, but summer was the main time we heard them.

And we'd see glimpses here there and yonder. Through the years, you would just see like silhouettes of them. The footprints that you saw over the years, how long would you estimate those footprints? to be. Goodness. Definitely bigger than a size 13. Okay. Wow.

Some smaller. I had seen some through the years. It was probably, I would say about a woman's size 4 or 5, you know, like they were young. But the big ones were definitely over 13. Yeah, like a 12 to 13. My kids, my boys were 12s and they were definitely bigger than that. The area that we're talking about this Grand Lake area, what county is that? It's in Delaware County, Grand Lake of Cherokees.

The lake was actually built. They call it Grand Lake of the Cherokees because it was actually built over the Cherokee Indian where they burial mounds are, or used to be. They tried to get as many up and moved as they could, but they did miss some. And so they just come to refer to it as Grand Lake over the Cherkees. And then they shortened it through the years to Grand Lake of the Cherokee. That's why I was told by my grandmother, who was actually there when the lake was built. The original town is still under the water.

They just literally flooded it. Once they built out where they wanted the lake to go, they flooded over it. I'm assuming there's probably been a ton of Bigfoot sightings beside yours in that area as well. Yes. Yes. My sister-in-law experienced them through the years. My nephews have my cousins. If you go out into the woods hunting up there, you're going to hear them if you don't see them. Just last year there was a woman on Facebook. She's like, what in the world am I hearing? She goes, it sounds like weird Indian drums. And we're all like, okay, that's just the big foot's knocking. You know, just leave it alone. They'll be fine. You're not going to die. It's okay. Because she was freaking out about it. she thought something really strange was going on. I think my grandmother said she first remember hearing about them as early as when some of her ancestors had settled in the area and they come off the trail of heroes. And she said it was just, you know, they've always been there, she felt like. I know the one thing I noticed and was weird to me was we had actually seen one time.

one year we went out and there was a cabin. It used to be an old bootleg cabin. Bootlegers would stay in it and do their little moonshine stills and stuff in there. Anyway, I was out there exploring one day and I thought, oh, I'm going to see what's in this thing. I go inside and there's a big nest in the building. Like they had actually discovered they could use the building. as protection from the elements and they built a big nest in there.

And it stunk so bad. Oh, my goodness, did it stink? I remember coming out there thinking, oh, that's where's that skunk. It was so bad because the smell is just, I don't even know how to describe it. It's just awful. And even today, where I live at now,

if I hear, if I am out and I smell that, I'm like, oh, okay, they're around here somewhere. because once you smell it, you don't forget it. What materials were, was the nest made out of? Brush, leaves, mainly. I think there was a little bit of maybe pine stuff in it that was mostly brush and leaves. I would say about the size of a love seat and, like, width. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah, it was decent size. It was a decent-sized thing. And I thought it was cool, but once I told my grandma, she's like, nope, you're staying out there. You're out there. So this is a weird one, but did you get close enough to see what specific type of brush was used in the nest? To me, it looked like young oak saplings. Okay.

brush because up in that area is mainly the brush would be oak or walnut um about that material um that's mainly what's out there is oak and walnut trees uh some elm but not much um but that's what it looked like it was and then like i said the pine there was pine needles and they might have took some pine limbs off. Wow. That is, that's very, very interesting, especially the part where it's inside. See, that's what through me was because before then I had seen, you know, where you could tell where they had knocked trees over to kind of make a protection.

And I know that they have been in the caves from seeing the one in the cave, obviously, but also the Great Spring has a cave behind it and it was common knowledge that something large lived in there and you didn't go in there. And so we're like, okay, what would be in there? If that's large,

and I asked one of my cousins, I'm like, well, is it the panther? And he goes, no, it's not the panther. Like, oh, okay. And I left at that because I knew what he was talking about if it's not the panther. The legend was that people would see

a large creature then and in that area of the cave? Yes. Yes. Yep, they would sit in the cave. I think I don't know who, but there was a story that I heard from my dad that some kids went down in there and came hauling butt out and never went back. Oh, wow.

So I'm like, I didn't try it myself because I can't swim. So I was not, and to get to the cave, you have to go through the water. And obviously I wasn't going to do that if I can't swim because it's a very deep spring. Oh. It's a natural spring. Yes. So I get it now. So in order, this is a cave behind the waterfall, you had to swim through the waterfall.

Oh, no, there's no waterfall. Oh, okay. It's a big spring about the size, oh, goodness, of a 30 by 30 house. Wow. It's big around. I mean, it's a huge spring. And it fed into Grand Lake and behind it was the cave. And you'd have to go through the spring to get up into the cave.

Okay. That's wild. When you had the sighting, were you close enough that you were able to notice any details about what you saw? I could just tell that one of them was tall, you know, very tall. And then two smaller ones, I could tell that they did have the long hair. It looked like reddish brown to me. But I was a collar away from them. I couldn't tell close-up features, but you could tell what they were because it was daytime.

It was like maybe, we went out at six. It got out there about 7.30. It was probably mid-morning. It was probably about 10 or 11 when we saw them. Because I remember after that, she's like, we're coming home. And it's a long walk back out. that it's on an old wagon trail. Have there ever been any reports in that area of aggressive encounters?

I've heard of some, but I don't know if it was actual... I don't think they were physical, but they were scary. I know I've heard of hunters coming out just scared to death of something they've heard or seen in there, but they won't talk about it. We've noticed dogs, the hunting dogs, would come hauling out for no apparent reason. You can tell when they're around, too, because you don't hear as much wildlife. It's like the wildlife stays more quiet. Does anyone ever report any, like, weird communication or hearing any, like, language type stuff or anything I've got in the area?

I hadn't heard anything. I don't know if anyone else has on that. They've never really said. I know most of what we heard was always just the whoops and the knocks. Now, you could hear some knocks. You'd hear like a series of knocks followed by whoops. And then they'd knock again. And you could tell they were coming from different areas.

You know, you could tell if you stand out there and listen, And you could tell, like if one's to the right of you and then from the left, they would respond. Okay. So you had situations where you were having multiple talking to or something communicating through knock patterns all around you. Yes. Oh, boy. Yes. Yeah.

That's common, especially in the early evenings. I was always out in the woods. They're definitely up there. They travel through this area regularly. I know today they still have people hearing them and seeing them. And just so listeners know what we're looking at here. So we're in the northeast corner of Oklahoma here, which is over by the Ozarks, right? Yeah, there's areas where it's very heavily wooded, not a lot of people.

There's caves that go distances in there. I know it's closed up now, but they're used to be. a cave that did run from what is now a grove and come out on the south side of grove up on a hill and you can actually, when the water goes down, you can see the one cave entrance. But the other side is now under a parking lot. So I know the caves run through, and that could be one way where they're getting from one area to the other, is through the caves.

And I know there's caves down there and people have not been in. because they're up on hill sides or they're just too far to get to very easily. There's a question I want to ask you, mainly for just my own curiosity, because of the geography of the area that this is. A factor I've seen come up in different areas that are like yours. Are there also reports of other things besides Bigfoot that would also be considered similar creatures? creatures in that same area? There's skeetleys. What's that?

A skeeely is like a little, they call them little people. Okay. But there's little creatures. You'll hear them, see them occasionally. There is definitely a lot of paranormal activity ghostwise. That's just something else you get used to seeing and hearing. That's just part of it. there's panthers up in there there's black panthers

um there's um there's um haven't i personally haven't seen any aliens up in there but you know i've heard a couple of people say it's where they've seen them um i do know you know you see weird bites occasionally so just something that's unexplained. Those are all things that I was not expecting to just come up. That's pretty intense. I grew up around there, so I'm used to it. I'm used to, I live in a haunted house. I'm used to what was it like growing up in an area where there's everything from little people to ghosts to Black Panthers, aliens, Bigfoot? For me, it was normal. Okay. For me, it was absolutely normal because I was just raised up that it's part of what's up there. You know, it's just

around you. Accept it. And they won't mess with you if you don't mess with them. You know, if you don't show no aggression towards them or, you know, and you acknowledge they're there, then you're fine. You know, that's just the way my grandmother taught me. And so I've never, I've always had the acceptance of it. So it's not like I moved in. I'm like, oh, no, what am I dealing with. I always knew what I was dealing with. And so it never bothered me. I mean, I ran free all over those woods. And I was a kid growing up in the 80s. And I was all over the place up in there. Never fazed me a bit to be out in the middle of nowhere by myself with them. Even today, you know, you just, you accept it and deal with it and go on.

Did you ever have any interactions with the Skellies that you know of? No. No. Thankfully, they chose to leave me alone because they're a tedious little things. But my cousins have told stories about them, you know, stealing their stuff and putting out in different spots or terrorizing them. But thankfully, they chose to leave me alone. I think it's just because I'm like, you know, whatever. Right. Is this another name for the Faye? Do you think? Have you ever heard that term? I think so. I believe so. I believe so. Because Skeely is an Indian term from what I've understood. And so it very well. well could be to me. That's it makes perfect sense. Okay. So you mentioned you have, you've lived with in a haunted house, which is, I'm sure you have all sorts of weird stories to do with that.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've got, well, I've lived in haunted house growing up. Through the years, we've lived on the one where now is currently haunted. So, you know, it's done. When I was growing up, where we lived at was on the old wagon trail. It was on the actual settlers trail. My family farm was one of the first farms actually put as a farm when Indians got land.

And there was numerous areas where you could have cold spots or you'd see just a white figure. there was an old cabin that was it had to have had something to do with cowboys or something because when it's rainy nights and thunderstorming, if you stand outside to where the cabin used to be, you can hear the bottles clanking and you can hear it sounds like they're playing cards. And you can't hear what they're saying, but you hear the chatter, the little mummers. You can't make up what they're saying, but you can hear them.

And then also in that same area, and this is also, you know, this is all in the same area where you have the sightings and stuff. There's an Indian, you'll see an Indian, he's got a headdress on and he's tall, very solemn looking. But we call him the guardian because he'll watch you while you're out in the woods. And you'll see him ever so often. And it's just like he's there making sure you get in and out of the woods okay. And he just said, so watch us. So we just call him the guardian. That's what my cousins and I grew up calling him.

And you've seen that yourself personally? Yes. How tall would you say that is? About six foot. Yeah. Five eight to six foot. Very tall, very solemn, weathered face. You know, even though it was, you know, obviously white, you could still see

the weathering. You could still tell he was very old. When you say that there are reports of aliens in this area, are you saying more like UFO encounters or there's actually like aliens being seen? Well, the two guys I went to high school with swear they saw UFO. They swear to goodness they saw UFO. Whether they did or not, I don't know. But they were definitely serious about it. And from, Where I grew up, it would have been about halfway going into Grove up in another really wooded area, which that area itself is kind of crazy. It's got weird activity.

There's a cemetery up there that has the grave of Stan Waity from the Cherokees. and it's said that if you go to his grave at night and you listen you can hear fiddle being played and I'm not got to hear it but I've had friends that's told me they've heard it and there's just some very weird stuff over in that area as well I can only imagine there's got to be are there situations where these different players have been seen in the same location like skeeely activity with aliens do they cross over or are they usually separate? I don't know on that part, but I do know that if you go out in the area where

the Bigfoot's generally were at, when I was younger, you would definitely have some other activity. Well, Skila wise or just other weird. I can't really describe it as anything but weird because you'd feel a odd sensation that wasn't

from the Bigfoot, but you couldn't quite place it at times. The funny thing is when you started talking, about whatever you just said, the phone did some really weird stuff like someone was trying to mess around with the phone. Do you mind

repeating that what they would do? Like, the skeillies will... Okay, well, from what my cousin said, they'll either pull pranks on you or they will terrorize you, like pick on you, like peck on your shoulder,

but no one's there, or they take your stuff and move it from one spot to another. You know, especially if you were outside, doing something outside, you'd have a tool beside you, you'd turn around look, and it's gone. And then it'd be way over in another spot. That happened to my cousins a lot. I was very thankful they left me alone. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm sure that stuff like this that was happening to your cousins out there, that would probably follow them home, I'm guessing. Yes. Yes. Sometimes, I do know that there was one time where one summer, there was a weird big foot coming through.

And I say weird because this one would actually come up and like staring your windows and rattled doors. And it terrorized my nephew's something awful an entire summer to the point where they would sleep in the hallway with their bedroom doors shut, refusing to go in the rooms after dark. It was so bad. And they lived just down the road from me. We found handprints. That would have been in 94. Okay. Yeah, because I was pregnant with my first.

one. So yeah, 94, 95, somewhere right in that area. Oh, wow. And you were saying handprints were being found around the houses as well? Yes. On the, yes, we found handprints on the window a couple of times. And then our neighbors, the neighbor next to them had been hearing weird stuff at night and her dogs were scared to go out. They wouldn't even leave the yard. And usually them things ran all over hell in creation. Cal's would be clustered more than normal. So it was definitely weird that year. And that's why we just thought it was a weird one.

You know, he was more aggressive than others. But he never actually, you know, hurt anyone, but he was sure terrorizing people. The one I wanted to ask you about specifically, were there ever any reports of dog man in that area? I don't remember any dog man. I do know. I could never get her to describe it, but my daughter was terrorized by what we, she called the Shadow Man.

And we spent, and this was something common again that different kids in the area, once we got to ask it around, had experienced this thing just terror. horizon and it was it would scare them to the point they would not leave their parents side i mean we spent six months with her right next to us inside and out because she swore it could get her but she would never describe it to us and none of the other kids that seen it would describe it to us as well so we don't know for sure what that was but you could you could feel when you could feel when

it was around because it felt it literally felt evil it felt like it was the worst thing and you would get really bad like something bad's going to happen feelings that's why we thought of it is evil so they wouldn't say what it was like they wouldn't give us a description okay they wouldn't tell us anything wow yeah um and the only time any of us ever saw it was we caught a glimpse once my cousin and because we had raced home. A bunch of the teenagers had been home alone, and they'd seen it in a freak to call us, and we got there,

and you could see something with red eyes. But that's all we could tell was the red eyes. It was total blackness. Were the red eyes higher up or low to the ground? No, no. They were like maybe, I would say maybe 5'4, 5'5. They weren't, you know,

they wouldn't be. higher up. To me, it didn't look like it would be a height for anything else. It was definitely weird, though. The eyes were definitely weird. Wow. There's some really strange things going on

in this Delaware County area. Yes, Delaware County definitely has activity all over in this area of Oklahoma. It really does. Mace County, where I'm at now, is definitely weird and unusual stuff as well. I mean, there's been, I've had a big foot siding down here. That was, this was where my husband actually saw his first big foot.

There's a story of, from back in the 50s that the Army Corps of Engineers actually had a fight with Bigfoot's before they built one of the dams down here. Really? Yeah. You'd have to give me a couple of days. to find my information on that, but I've got some information on it that I have saved from what a friend sent me about it. The story is that they told them, forced them to move, and if they didn't move, then

they were going to be killed, and they flooded the area. And now that's Spadon Dam is there now. You know, you've got all the time you need, because I've never heard of that one. That sounds really interesting. Well, I'll definitely get the information together. for you. Because that's one of those ones. I'm like, ooh, I want to, you know, dig into that myself. But there's all kinds of activity. As I said, there's an option over here on Highway 412. And my husband and I were there late one evening. And all of a sudden, he comes running up to our

vehicle. He's like, get the kids loaded. Let's get out of here. Let's get out here. And I'm like, why? What's going on? I noticed the cows were moving, but I have been distracted. with kids. So I didn't pay much attention. Well, I glanced up when he said that. And he goes, about the time he's telling me, I'm seeing there's, you know, familiar silhouette walking across the field. He goes, I just saw something literally crossed that creek in one step.

I was like, you may have stepped once into the creek. He goes, no. He goes, it stood on one side and stepped across you together. We're getting out of here. And I'm like, oh, you just. saw a big, but that's not because that's right there. And we had to leave immediately. And up to that point, he had never believed in it. But after that, he's like, okay, yep, I'm a believer. I'm a believer. Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. That's the same county area as Delaware?

No, it's a county over. Okay. Yeah, it's just, they're connecting counties. Very, very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, do you have any Native American heritage yourself? Yes, I do. I have turkey dibbler and pot of bottomian Indian. Okay. Awesome. Wow. It's just, I can almost, you know, when I, when I do interviews like this, I can almost bank on the person definitely has some heritage. I mean, it's like every single time. It's incredible. I don't know quite what it is, but there's definitely a connection there, I think. I think it's because, you know, with us having that background, if you're raised up in it like I was, I was taught the old ways and whatnot, that you're more accepting of it and you're more open to it. Yeah, so it doesn't bother you as much. Oh, I agree. I think once you know what to look for, you're going to start to see stuff for sure.

Oh, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. you know and I tell my kids when they're out in the woods I'm like okay keep an eye out you know if you hear this or you smell this you need to be watching and just leave them alone the interview to kind of turn into something I wasn't expecting I mean there's a lot more going on in this area so we got a little bit distracted but I think is definitely worth having the conversation are there also other times that you've had what you think are Bigfoot interactions in your life um yes we were let's see we have had what year would have been around 2000 2000 2001 somewhere right in that area i can't remember exactly how old my third child was at that time we lived up on coffee bill i actually lived in south coffeeville on the illinois river on a ranch and the so we would go through the hayfield

through this really thick area of trees to go down to a river, which was actually the Illinois River for the kids to swim and whatnot. And you would feel like they're just there watching you. And a couple of times it made my husband so uncomfortable. He actually said, we're leaving now because of how intense the feeling felt. But one night, we were out there. There was a very bad storm coming in. we had 1,500 bales and hay on the ground.

And so I was helping my husband hauled up hay in. And my son goes, Mom, what's over there in the woods? And I look and you could see the outline of the Bigfoot and the edge of the woods. They were in and enough where you couldn't see all of them, but you could tell they were there and you could see its eyes. And they're just watching. And when you get closer to that area, it would like, step closer to where it's going to come out into the headlights, but not quite. And so I made a couple of rounds getting haybells.

My son kept getting uneasy. So I pulled over and my husband's like, what's going on? I showed him and he goes, okay, he goes, I'll do that area. You just, you know, stay up this way because we didn't want to, you know, scare my son. He was like three at the time. and I was back up this way and then pretty soon he's coming over and he goes nope forget it and I'm like why and he goes well I just got a rock throw it at me I'm like okay they threw a rock and he goes no I got a rock throw it at me and he held it up and it was a decent size little

little boulder and it was like they were warning him to stay out of that area so he actually did not get the hay in that area he left it and I was like well I guess they just don't want you over there and he goes, I guess not. And we left it and went home. And then we went back out the next day. And all you could see because of how bad the storm was, well, you could tell something

had been standing there, but you couldn't tell any real footprints or anything. But you could tell where it was sunk in from something standing. That's the only time I'd ever had anything that was, it wasn't even toward me, it was towards him. And I think that he might just got too close

for their comfort. And so they chunked a rock at him. I told him. I was like, well, I told you. There's Bigfoot around here. Just got to watch them. And was that before or after his sighting? After. After. If you're in South Coffeeville, you're about 15 minutes from the border. Because once you get into Coffee Bills, when you hit the border, and it takes about 10, 15 minutes to get up in there. But there's also, if you get into looking to sightings, there's a lot of sightings up in that area. because the rivers one the best places for them to catch the fish.

The Illinois has got some of the best fishing there is. Okay, Illinois, Illinois River. Gotcha. So a lot of sightings along that. Interesting. I will have to look into that for sure. I don't hear a lot from, I'm sure there is, but I've never gotten a lot from that area of Kansas or. Well, most people don't talk about it.

That's the other thing is you're taught not to talk about it because people think you're crazy. Yeah, like I was taught from my early age, don't go to school talking about any of this because people are going to think you're crazy. You know, if something weird happens, just pass it off. Don't go, oh, well, that's a ghost. Oh, that was weird.

You're taught not to talk of it. So it's just something you're used to. You go out looking for it, me personally. Any chance I get, I'm going to go hunting. I'm going to go look, see if I combine me a ghost or see if I can do something. But most people, they're talking about. not to acknowledge it.

Yeah, my husband was. Growing up or over your lifetime, do you ever remember anyone saying, hey, I've got a, I got a photo, a big photo, I got a video from a big foot. I mean, they probably wouldn't have said anything anyways,

to be honest. That's what it sounds like. Unfortunately not. I know my cousin tried one summer. Oh, yeah. He was dead set on getting one. But he even put trocams up and everything, but all he got was a bunch of blur and a lot of deer.

so I was like well you know you're just not in the right spot I guess he goes no I'm I'm near that I'm cross from that cave where you set and I was like well I don't know I guess they don't like you it was just harassing you know because he was he was very determined to get a picture but he never could because we had come back and I told him what we'd seen and so he was like I'm going to see if I can find it but he was never able to I know he had some sightings for the years, but photograph-wise, unfortunately, never got to get one. Gotcha. And growing up in that area, was there ever, was there a person where everyone would be like,

oh, you'd saw Bigfoot go talk to this guy? He's kind of the guy who's into it around here. Nope. No, it was all, you kept quiet about it. Ah, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, but it was old-timers up in that area, and it was people that had grown up in that area.

So it was just, you know, it was common knowledge. You know, it was just common knowledge that they were there. I have families still live up there. I know that they still hear stuff. They still see stuff. I definitely know down in the area where I grew up at, there is people having, you know, hearing the knocks and the whoops and stuff like that. It's not an area.

A lot of people talk. I think everyone's too distracted by southeast Oklahoma. You know. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, you know, if you follow the river, the Illinois comes right up. And then the Grand is up here and the Grand River and it all flows right up.

Well, actually flows down from all of the lakes because Grand Lake of the Cherokees flows down into Lake Oon. Lake Oon, you know, they're all just connected and everything flows down through the river. So it's not very hard to think if you track it, they can walk, you know, and go from one area to the other during the different times of the year for food or where the fish are at, you know, where the game's at, you know, it would make sense. You know, like a natural migration. Absolutely. The longer I talk to people about this, I find that one of the common factors is there's usually it's by a river and you can just follow the reports up and down. For example, I'm from Iowa. You can just follow the reports up and down the Des Moines River through Southeast Iowa. It's incredible. It sounds like it's a very similar thing down there. Yes, it is.

Because if you look at the geography of the area and then you look at the sightings, there's not a lot of sightings out in the western parts of Oklahoma because there's not as much river. There's not as much woods, but over in the southeast corner all the way up to the northeast corner, that's all we are is river and woods and creeks and lakes. And it's the perfect area for them because there's also lots of caves. dripping spring state parks over here and that is a huge state park that has you know natural waterfalls caves all kinds of stuff you know it's the perfect area for them to be did anyone ever see anything that looked like a like a tall pale skinny like creature just

really kind of weird, kind of like if you remember the Lord of the Rings movies, like you had Gallum? I've never actually watched The Lord of the Rings. Oh, okay, sorry. I think the strangest creature we've seen around here would be a skinwalker. Okay, so that could be similar, depending on what your definition is. So what would be your definition of that? Well, we've traditionally around here, we've got two types from what?

what we call skim walkers or I personally. We have a gentleman in Tallercloth, or lives kind of around Tadalclaw that he's said to turn into a bear. And then we have this one that, to me, it's creepy. It's like the top half looks kind of human with antlers and a very creepy face. but the bottom half is like more animal. I've heard stories of people seeing stuff like that. But I just like, oh, well, it must be a scam walker and pass it off because it probably is something to do with that or something. I've never heard of that before, especially the deer antlers.

Is it usually called, labeled as a female or male? Usually male. Okay. What I'd heard. And like I said, I've now personally seen it. I've just heard the stories of it. One of my friends, she is a full-blood Cherokee Indian, and she lives out near Kenwood, which is,

Kimwood is pretty much, if you're not Indian, you stay out. That area. Why would you do that? Well, they don't like. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And if they don't. like you, you're not going in there. And anyway, she was always told never walk home after dark. Well, she was, and if you walk home after dark, if you hear something behind you, do not

turn around. Well, she was walking home after dark. She heard something behind her. Well, she's smart. She didn't turn around, but she held her camera up and took a selfie over her shoulder to try to catch what it was. She described it as a demon. It's pale, white,

walking on all fours, red eyes scurrying after her. She made that mile walk in four minutes. She was done. She was, I don't remember how I got home. And I'm like, well, now we know why they told us not to be out of the park. And it was just in that one area up in there because they said it was really haunted. And it was evil.

And this and that, it's what you heard growing up. And then she took this picture. Unfortunately, the phone got broke, so she didn't get to get the picture off. Right. But it looked like a pale white creature on all fours, like it was scurrying. Yeah, that's what I was asking about right there. Yeah. Yeah, that's it.

Okay. Well, see, I didn't know what they were called. We just called, we was told it was a demon. We really didn't know what it was, but that's what they, her mom had called it. Oh, wow. that's Kenwood, Oklahoma. Yeah, up around the Kenwood Rose area. And that's about, from where I live now, it's about 20 minutes.

It's an unincorporated community, it looks like? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, you don't like breaking down out there. That is, man, that kind of thing makes me want to look into it, but I don't know how far I want. to look into it. People there probably not want to talk at all, I would guess. No. No. No. Unless they reach out, which they're more than welcome to. But yeah, you don't go walking

on doors around there. No. Not in that area. No, no, definitely not. May, it's been, it's been some fun talking to you. It's a fascinating area of Oklahoma. Definitely looking more into this. Oh, absolutely. Get in touch with me anytime. I'm more than happy to go out and help you hunt. Absolutely. And if you ever run into any other information, if you're able to pull up what you have about...

I will definitely find that and send it to you. Because to me, it's... What I found fascinating about it was I remember because when she first gave it to me, I went looking and you can't find anything about it. like it's they don't want you to know about it and so I was like hmm I'm going to go to the historical societies

and I'm going to try to pull you know more information in that route oh that's where you found it was the historical society well she found it there and she did oh wow and she sent it to me and so I'm going to go back and try because I have to go to the historical

society for a grave I'm trying to find So it won't be a very hard thing for me to look into and try to find more information. If I can't get that route, then I know there's still some old timers alive from that time that might talk to me. Because I've learned here in Oklahoma anyways, once these old timers get to a certain age, they don't care what they tell. Oh, yeah, it's great. It is so good. That is a lesson I've learned myself. You need to figure out where the time.

they're at and become friends with them, like buy them coffee or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's what I've learned. And I'm like, oh, I'm loving this because I can find out so much more information from them than I can't in a historical society half the time.

Absolutely. And that's actually why I'm, what I'm relying on to find this grave I'm looking for is to try to track down some old timers that were alive when this incident or not when it happened, but they would have been little kids and their parents might have talked about it

and try to locate it. And I'm like, ooh, I love these old-timers, man. You give them a cup of coffee. You're there for three hours learning stuff. No, absolutely. The same is with older librarians in a town. Yes.

And historical societies. I've had luck with them as well. Oh, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, while I'm thinking about it, there is enough up in Uchi, there is a cemetery, and there has been sightings of Bigfoot walking behind the cemetery. And I know they're fairly recent. Where is this? Up in Uchi, which is, yeah, it's on this, if you are, um, south of Grove on highways 20. Yeah, you take 59 down into J and then from J, you go like you're going down 59 to Talaquah, but you turn on to 20 and you go into Uchi.

And when you're going into Uchi, there's a huge cemetery on the left-hand side, and there has been as recent as last year, I know for sure, sightings of Bigfoot. behind that cemetery or walking through the back edge of that cemetery. I'm going to definitely look into that. So as late as last year, you're saying there's been reports in that area. Yes.

That's cool. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've talked to people that's had, you know, they live up in that area and they're like, man, we see them all the time. You know, we hear this all the time. Wow.

Mary, thank you so much for spending an hour of your time with me and just, sharing some of really, really interesting things of what's going on in this area you're familiar with. And hopefully if people are listening to this and they know of things going on around Uchi and the cemetery and all this, man, there's even a place called Monkey Island near this. How crazy is that? Okay, so Monkey Island. Monkey Island got its name because a circus was coming through, a monkey has actually got loose. Okay, cool. They captured them, but yeah.

All right. Yeah, this whole area is, I mean, you ever come down here, you'll have fun. Yeah, it's as crazy as there's another lake. It's down by Texas. The lake, what's called? Lake Texoma has a lot of weird stuff like you guys. Oh, yeah. I drove over that one.

That's some cool, cool areas down there. Yeah, fun stuff down there. They both look like dragons. That's weird when you look. Anyways. Man, Mary, thank you so much. Keep me in mind if you ever run into any other weird stuff in your area. Oh, absolutely.

Thank you so much for coming on today. You're welcome. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a National Park Ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, if you're a pilot who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI, a federal agency, or working intelligence, and you stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about,

and if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search-and-rescue responder, who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense, if you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field or trucker with government contracts and you've had something happen that you've never told a soul. And if you're a biologist, a wildlife specialist, or a field researcher under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report, if you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat, and you saw something that shook your faith,

or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA, or anything with clearance, and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you. Even if it's anonymous, you can reach me at bigfoot society at gmail.com. The world needs to hear what you've been forced to carry alone, and you're not alone. You've got the story.

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