Bigfoot Society - "I Saw Bigfoot: The Almond-Eyed Giant of the Woods"

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

In this episode of the Bigfoot Society Podcast, host Jeremiah Byron engages in a riveting conversation with Matt Knapp, host of the Bigfoot Crossroads Podcast. Dive deep into the enigmatic world of Bigfoot as Matt shares his extraordinary experiences and insights. Here are 10 intriguing things you'll learn by tuning into this episode – but remember, the full story is even more fascinating:The Current State of Bigfoot in Oklahoma: Discover what's happening in the Bigfoot scene in Oklahoma, a hotspot for sightings and encounters.Inside NoBro's Latest Findings: Get an exclusive look at the Native Oklahoma Bigfoot Research Organization's recent activities and their intriguing trail cam photo.Folklore and Sightings: Learn about the rich tapestry of Bigfoot stories within the Native American community and how these tales continue to shape the search for this elusive creature.Matt Knapp's Bigfoot Origin Story: Hear Matt's personal journey from a childhood interest in the paranormal to becoming a key player in Bigfoot research.Early Days of Online Bigfoot Communities: Explore the nascent days of Bigfoot research on the internet and how digital forums have evolved.BFRO and Beyond: Understand Matt's initial interactions with the Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization and his transition to a local Oklahoma group.First Expedition Thrills: Experience the suspense and excitement of Matt's first Bigfoot expedition and the lessons he learned.The Whistling Encounter: Delve into a chilling encounter involving mysterious whistling in the woods – a folklore warning sign you shouldn't ignore.The Mystery of the Disappearing 'Grass': Uncover the startling moment Matt encountered something inexplicable on his trail.Bigfoot Hoaxes and Community Focus: Gain insights into the prevalence of hoaxes in the Bigfoot community and what Matt believes should be the true focus of Bigfoot enthusiasts.This episode is not just a discussion; it's an adventure into the unknown. Join Jeremiah and Matt as they navigate the intriguing and often mysterious world of Bigfoot. Whether you're a long-time enthusiast or new to the realm of cryptids, this episode promises to enlighten, entertain, and maybe even send a shiver down your spine. Tune in now for the full, unforgettable story! 🌲👣🎙️Resources:https://www.bigfootcrossroads.comWATCH THE IOWA EPISODE IN THE “SASQUATCH: A SEARCH FOR SABE” DOCUMENTARY SERIES BY TATE HIERONYMUS // FIND OUT ALL ABOUT MY FIRST BIGFOOT ENCOUNTERS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo8O4rvywzETo unlock more bonus content and much more, become a supporting member of Bigfoot Society by joining the Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyBecome a Youtube Channel member here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7Q/joinSupport Bigfoot Society one time by buying me a coffee here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/bigfootsociety To pick up a Bigfoot Society shirt, stickers and more, check out our merch by heading on over to https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietySend me a voice message to potentially be used for the show by calling 515-809-0165 Here’s a fun prompt - “Hey, my name’s [your name] and you’re listening to the Bigfoot Society podcast!”If you’d like to send me fan mail, Bigfoot related products to check out or written out Bigfoot encounters then you reach me at the following address: Bigfoot Society 125 E 1st St. #233 Earlham, IA 50072Join our private Facebook group "Bigfoot Sasquatch Encounters" for a chance to connect with others who have had similar experiences. Follow the directions to ensure your entry is accepted.https://www.facebook.com/groups/5762233820540793/?ref=share_group_linkTune in to our YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7Q) for new episodes of Bigfoot Society, and visit our website (www.bigfootsocietypodcast.com) for all the links mentioned above and more.Don't miss out on the Bigfoot action! —— Affiliate links mean I earn a commission from qualifying purchases. This helps support my channel at no additional cost to you.—— MY GEAR —— My Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3L1q8XYMy Podcast Mic: https://amzn.to/3AlYwb9My Computer: https://amzn.to/40CCjQyMy Headphones: https://amzn.to/40A8gcrMy Webcam: https://amzn.to/3NqfddhThe best Bigfoot book: https://amzn.to/41x8IcNLose the weight along with me on Noom. Get 20% off your subscription with link below. (Consult your doctor first) https://noom.com/r/GdkaWNddL?1251Join Whatnot and pick up some sweet video games and vintage shirts. 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The next three years, L.A. will welcome the world with major events unmatched by any destination. This moment is bigger than sports. It's about the impact on our communities, businesses, and people. With the help of the Los Angeles Sports and Entertainment Commission Foundation Foundational Partners, Amgen, Archer Aviation, Kaiser Permanente, L.A. We're investing in the L.A. community and inspiring civic pride. Together, let's show the world why we love L.A. To learn more about the FIFA World Cup coming this June, visit Los Angeles FWC26.com. This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. And now a quick break from our sponsor, Miracle Grow.

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and start your growth journey today. Exima's unrelenting, itch and rash. If you know the feeling, you should know the facts. The eczema medication you're taking may not be right for you. Visit MyRodtruth.com and talk to your dermatologist about your symptoms and treatment options. It's not human. It's not animal. The eyes were, what I would describe as almond-shaped,

set farther apart than a human's eyes, very large, very deep sunken into the head. The brow ridge was very pronounced, but the brow ridge was thicker in the middle between the eyes and tapered. The forehead was actually covered in hair. It didn't have a bare forehead. The hair came all the way down to the brow ridge and grew backwards up. over the back of its head. Its jaw line was very wide. The jaw sat wider than the temples did.

The cheekbones were very high and pronounced. The nose wasn't like anything I've seen. Hi there, you're listening to the Bigfoot Society podcast, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. Every week I talk to individuals who have experienced Sasquatch in some way or another, so you won't want to miss an episode. Make sure you're subscribed on the platform

that you're listening to and share this episode with a friend does not cost a thing and it helps the show continue to grow if you'd like to hear bigfoot society episodes early and ad free you can do so by becoming a patreon supporter or a youtube channel member links to those are in the showbooks and bigfoot society i've taken far too much of your time so far so let's get on with the show all right bigfoot society we've got the privilege of talking to matt nap the host of bigfoot crossroads tonight on Bigfoot Society. How's it going, Matt? It's going good, man. How are you? Dude, I'm so excited to talk to you. Every once in a while, I get comments where it's like, oh, you got to, what if I can hear Jeremiah and Matt on the same podcast? So here you go, guys.

It's happening tonight. It's party time. We talked a little bit on the phone a few weeks ago. That was a good chat. You reached out and we were chatting Bigfoot and stuff. And we're like, okay, let's make an interview happen. But Matt, how is the world Bigfoot down there in Oklahoma for you? It's actually active right now. I'm not getting out in the field anymore. I haven't gotten out in the field in years. But the group that I follow down here, which is Nobro,

the native Oklahoma Bigfoot research organization, that's a mouthful. They are very active. And they get reports all the time. They just got a pretty interesting, photograph a trail cam photo. It's going to be inconclusive. It shows something that could or couldn't be, who knows,

but they're investigating that and trying to get to the bottom of it. But those guys keep me in the loop of what's going on, and then there's a group that you're actually a part of as well on Facebook, the Oklahoma, Indian Territory Bigfoot Alien

everything group. I love that group so much. Yeah. And man, they've got so many amazing stories. The Native American community, especially in that part of Oklahoma, which is like the South Central area, there's just always amazing stories coming out of there. Such a rich history whenever it comes to Bigfoot stuff. Oh, that group is so good. Yeah, you're right. The stories that are shared in there, oh man, I would love to talk to those guys. I'm sure a lot of them probably you've, I don't know, have you had the privilege of meeting those guys that are in there?

Yeah, I know a few of them. And then those guys know other guys and I'm familiar with some people that are in that group. But yeah, it's just whenever I first got started in this, I actually had friends that lived in that part of Oklahoma. And I was going down there a lot and researching in their areas. And that's how I got to know some of those people. And even back then, you're talking 20 years ago, the stories were still just insane, just absolutely insane. Absolutely. Matt, what was it that got you into Bigfoot?

Oh, man, it's weird. I actually grew up in a house that was known to be haunted, experienced some paranormal activity whenever I was real young. And so I started seeking out information on that stuff, trying to understand what was going on. Back then, this is pre-home computer. So I would go to the library or anytime I got a chance to check out reading material on the subject. That's what I was doing. And back then, Bigfoot was lumped in with those topics. You'd find them in the same sections at least. And so that was my introduction to Bigfoot. I remember I got a book at a garage cell that had Bigfoot and the Locknest monster stories in it.

And that was the first time that I read like actual accounts of Bigfoot activity. And that just captured my attention at a very early age. But then it wasn't something that I really thought too much about until years later, whenever I did get a home computer. And I was just exploring the world of the internet for the first. time and typed in the word Bigfoot one night. And it led me down the rabbit hole. Back then, there was a handful of websites, the BFRO being one of them. And I got on there and started reading sighting reports and was just amazed that people actually went out and actively looked for this thing.

I had no idea. And then eventually I found a group that was based out of Oklahoma and managed to hook up with those people and started talking to them on the internet. And they invited me to go along. And the rest is kind of history from there. Wow. So you were getting onto the computer and checking out the BFR. Was that 90s or? Yeah, that was like, I got my first PC in 1998. And this would have probably been that following fall of 98, whenever I started checking out Bigfoot stuff specifically. I actually reached out to the BFRO. At the time, they had just like, you could just go on their website and apply for membership. I was actually staying the night over a friend's house, and I was up late on his computer and just bored. So I was like, I'm just going to apply. Why not? So I put in

an application. And I remember there was like, there was a section where they're like, what kind of research equipment do you have? And I was when like, I've got a camcorder. I've got a Polaroid camera. I've got a tape recorder, just nothing, in other words. And the next day, I get back home and, geez, I sound so old telling this stuff, but there's a message on my answering machine. Oh, yes, dude. Yeah. So I checked the message, and it's from Matt Moneymaker.

No way. Yeah, he called me, and he was like, yeah, we received your application. That tells you how long ago it was. and I heard the message and I swear to God, I was like, my name's Matt and his moneymaker, really? Like, it's a scam. Like, I should have known better. So I just erased the message and went on with life.

Wow. And then my curiosity got the better of me, and I started looking at him and I found out like, oh, wait, no, his name really is Matt Moneymaker. It's actually a legit Bigfoot research organization. So I emailed them again. corresponded with Matt a little bit and everything was good. But so technically I was a member of the BFRO.

I never went on any audings. I wasn't allowed on like the real message forum to talk to everybody or anything like that. I don't really know what I was the absolute worst, lowest level of member you could possibly be. I remember they used to like how they have now where they're like upcoming outings. You can sign up and pay to go on their outings and everything. Back then, they did have something similar, but it was we're having an upcoming outing here. If you want to be part of the research team, email us. And they were coming to Oklahoma.

So I was like, oh, here's my chance. And yeah, I got denied, man. I got denied. They wouldn't let me go. Matt Moneymaker told me that I was too inexperienced, that people, had very expensive equipment and they didn't want to be liable for that or anything like that. So I had to sit that one out. And that's what actually propelled me to look to see if there's any other groups.

And I found that one in Oklahoma. So I just started hanging out with them. Wow. So how old would you have been around like late 90s, early 2000s then? Early 20s, man. Oh, wow. Very early 20s. Dude.

that's that had been very interesting if you were in the BFRO at that time period in Oklahoma first because of certain events that happened in alternate universe you could have been involved with that yeah that all of it would have been very crazy if my path had stuck with the BFRO as opposed to trailing off in the other direction everything would be different you start getting involved with another group did you go out on expeditions trying to find a big foot for yourself? Yeah, so at first there is a lot of getting to know the people. There was like a voice chat service called a pal-talk, I believe it was called,

where everybody hang out and talk over the microphones on their computers. And I got to know everybody there. And then one night, they said, hey, some of us are meeting up in this town in Oklahoma, if you want to meet up with us and go out. So I did. I loaded up my vehicle and drove forever, like three and a half hours to meet up with them. And went out with them, got really freaked out the first night ever I'm out in the woods looking for Bigfoot with people. I didn't know what to expect.

I was a complete noob. And everybody was real nice and everything like that. Nothing happened. there might have been some eye shine or something, but at that point, I didn't even know what I shine was. And then it was like, the end of the night,

and everybody has their plans and everything, and they're just like, it was nice meeting you. It's like, okay. So I'm driving back home at 1 a.m. out in the middle of nowhere, and I get pulled over by a sheriff. And I'm just like,

oh, man, this is not going to be good. because my car like at that time again being a noob going and meeting up with people i don't know i had a shotgun in my vehicle i had spotlights flashlights knives everything bad you can possibly think of to have and he gets me out of the vehicle and has me stand at the front of his car and he's he goes back and he's searching my vehicle and i'm like yeah there's a shotgun gun in the back. It's not loaded. The shells are in the glove box, blah, blah, blah, and he's like, okay. And he shines his flashlight in there. Then I think I had like a CB radio or something. And he pulled that out. It was just like a little handheld CB radio. And he sets that on top of the car.

And he sets like a couple knives on top of the car. They were just pocket knives, nothing crazy. And he's like, what are you doing with all this stuff? I was like, I was out. I was out. with some people looking for Bigfoot. I didn't know what to say. And he was like, looking for Bigfoot, we're at? And I told him what town we were in. He was like, they got Bigfoot there? That's what they tell me.

And he goes, huh, slow it down, have a good night. And just lets me go. No problem. And so I thought I was going to stay the night in the jail. I thought hindsight, I would not suggest anybody tell the police that you're out looking for Bigfoot in the middle of the night with a bunch of them. of weapons. It's probably not the brightest move, but you let me go. And yeah, that was my first ever trip out looking for Bigfoot. If there's any state you're going to get away with that,

probably it's going to be Oklahoma though. Probably so. Because you guys are rocking and rolling when it comes to Bigfoot. From what I've heard now, I'm an outsider. I've never been in the state before, but talked to a few people. And I picked up that certain counties, you could probably get away with stuff like that pretty easy. Probably. Yeah. All right. So you had a pretty wild first night meeting the gang.

Did you meet up with those guys again? Yeah. So that group, it was part of the network of people that I was getting to know that I would eventually get in good with. And a lot of them I consider extended family at this point. That trip was just testing the waters. and then after that, my next trip was several months later, and it was down to Texas. And that was whenever I met the real main group that I had been talking to, met them all for the first time, and started getting to know them.

And again, that trip introduced me to a lot of interesting people. it was definitely a crazy trip, but didn't see anything. Maybe heard some calls or something like that, but again, this is my second trip out into the woods looking for Bigfoot. So I was probably not noticing most of the stuff that was happening. But at that point, I had the bug,

and this group was pretty active. We were going out, we were all from different states, so that caused a problem. but we were still going out at least once every three months or so, just meeting up somewhere for like anywhere from three days to a week and just hitting it hard the whole time. And at that time, there wasn't really a lot of groups doing that.

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Exactly. Outside of Lufkin, I believe. Zavala kind of got put on the map for a little while. And I've talked about that place a lot. We call it the dead end road. There's an old sawmill in this forest, Boykin Springs Park. if anybody wants to look it up. And yeah, that place became famous.

It became a historic Bigfoot location for Texas because of the group I was with and the things that we experienced there. Are you able to mention names of anyone that was in that group, or do you have to keep that? No. We affectionately started calling ourselves the Bigfoot outlaws. Oh, sure. So the most famous people are obviously bearing

Kumbow of that group. And then Dan Ricky, Lori, I think Lori Dyer Hood. She goes by at this point, whenever I knew her, it was a different name. Kelly Maddingly, Vicky, just a whole group. We were just the outlaws. That was the same group that we eventually started doing podcast together and everything else. And as far as I know, some of them are still actively going out into the woods 25 years later. There might be some listeners that don't know what happened in that forest. Are you able to share what happened in that forest that made it a famous location? The reason I was there, I didn't actually go on the first trip there.

Like I said, we were all from different states and we would meet up. So wherever we were meeting up at, there would be a person that kind of hosted that, get together and scout locations for us to go to. And I don't even know how this location was picked. I don't know if it had a history of stuff or what. But they went there. And I'm trying to remember, I think it was like February or something. I think it was around Valentine's Day whenever they went there.

And this was about a month before I went. And whenever they went, there was a large, group of people. There's probably 10, 15 people on that outing, which that's another thing. We didn't really like to have big groups like that. We called them circus outings because usually the more people you have, the less your chances of experience anything. But this particular time, they were in a caravan of vehicles. They're driving down this forest road at night and a group of Bigfoot crossed the road in front of them. And they all had spotlights. They hit the big foot with spotlights.

They basically paralleled them down the road. They kept the spotlights on the group of Bigfoot. And I would say probably four or five people out of the group all saw multiple Bigfoot at the same time. So that was like a really big deal. Still would be by anybody's standards, I would think. Oh, absolutely. So after that outing, it's like,

Hey, we're going back. We got to go back down there. So that's why I got in on that trip. And I went down there with them. And some of the things that I saw, just that first trip down there were like the limb structures that you hear about. Those were the first times I ever actually saw limb formations that people attribute to Bigfoot, tree bows, X's, things like that. But the strangest thing we saw, they had talked about. these tracks in the road.

Now, I know this isn't going to make sense to a lot of people, but these guys weren't interested in casting footprints. They would sometimes, but they wanted to see Bigfoot. They don't, they're not in it for scientific purposes. They're in it because they enjoy it. They are trying to learn about the behavior and things like that. So they had talked about these footprints that they saw where they crossed the road at and everything.

So whenever we went back down there, they took me to the spot. And this is like the first time we're driving in. And they take me to the spot. They're like, yeah, the footprints are going to be right up here. We're going to turn right. And they'll be right there after we turn right about 30 yards. So we do all that.

And there's, this is so weird. So it looks like a trackway crossing the road, but the tracks are filled in with dirt. But it's like fresh dirt that's been brought in from someplace else. else. But they're in the shape of like footprints, basically, large footprints, and they're the same pattern as the footprints would be, except they have just these packed in dirt. Somebody had come in there and filled in the footprints,

trying to cover them up for some reason. And I thought that was just really bizarre. Because like, how would those people, if they were lying to me, why was that right there? like where they said the tracks would be. It just didn't make sense. And that was whenever, that was my first experience with maybe someone on a authority level

is actively trying to cover this up and keep Bigfoot a secret or something. Because I just, I couldn't come up with any other explanation for it. It just didn't make sense to me. And no footprints around, no like smaller footprints around the bigger footprints, just no it's so weird man yeah yeah it reminded me in oklahoma we have a lot of blacktop roads and whenever you get like holes in the blacktop sometimes they'll come along with a truck and like shovel more blacktop into the holes and just pack it down with a shovel and that's what it reminded me of somebody drove through with a truck that had dirt in the back of it and they just shoveled

into the tracks and packed it down and kept driving wow so no video no nothing like that of the night when there was the multiple big foot in the road, correct? I think somebody may have been taking video at the time.

I'm not sure. Like I said, I wasn't there. I'm trying to remember back. It seems like maybe somebody did have a video camera at the time. I don't know if they got anything or not. Probably not. I would assume I never saw

a video or anything like that. It was more or less just the people I talk to all the time, you know, because we had talked just about every night on the computer, they all come back from that trip and they're just, they're going crazy. They're like, oh, my God, you got to hear what we saw. And like, all these different people are, like, telling me the same story. And I didn't really know what to think of it. But then the more I talk to the people and get to know them and everything, I'm like, these people aren't liars. Like, they're not making this stuff up. And, uh,

I don't know, man. It's one of the craziest. I wish I had been there, obviously. But it's one of the crazier stories for sure. Because just so many people seeing them at once. You had the experience with seeing the filled in tracks. Was there ever a point after that, Matt, that you were able to have any experience where you saw an actual creature?

Or was that the kind of pinnacle? of seeing some sort of evidence when you're out in the field. Oh, God, no, man. That's my second trip out into the woods. Well, you know, some people, that's all they get, right? I know, and that was part of the problem. That was part of the problem. I should say that, so these people, we weren't called anything at that point.

We were, so they were part of a different group, and there was a fallout in the group, and there is this guy in Oklahoma who said, hey, I'll give you guys a group if you want to come join it. And that group was called the monkey chasers. This guy was not serious about Bigfoot at all. He believed in Bigfoot, but he just wanted people to hang out with, basically.

And so the group was called the monkey chasers. So I don't really like publicizing that because it's not a great name. that's what they were called, and that's the group I hooked up with. And these people, it was an amazing group of people. You've got Barren Coombo. That's just their nicknames. That's what they went by on the internet. So I'm going to respect that.

Those guys had independently grown up in areas where Bigfoot was on their family's property. These are both country guys from the south who, their first encounters with Bigfoot were whenever they were children. And like their grandparents knew about Bigfoot. And these guys knew how to find them and knew how to call them in using vocalizations that they had learned

over the years based on what they had heard Bigfoot make. Then you had Dan Ricky who, like I said, was basically from South Central, Oklahoma at that point, and he had been researching Bigfoot since the 1970s. I was in with a group of people that were all much older than I was, and they were all seasoned veterans in Bigfoot.

They didn't care about making names for themselves. They didn't care about being scientific. All of them were from the South, basically, and just grew up in rural areas and just didn't care about fame or what you're supposed to do or how you're supposed to go about doing it. And they just applied a lot of outdoorsman knowledge and a lot of common sense. And that was the same way that I was brought up. I was brought up in a surrounding that was very similar to that.

So I was comfortable with that. I was raised by my great grandparents. They were both country folks raised, learning how to hunt and fish at a very early age. So I didn't have a problem being with those type people. And they understood that. And they taught me a lot of stuff. Now, I am a very skeptically minded person. So the stuff that they taught me, I didn't just accept.

But I would take the things that they taught me and I would apply them myself. And I got the same results. So I just started trusting them and started listening to them. This eventually led to me going out with them. It wasn't a real outing. It was more of a social get-together in 2002. It was in Sulphra, Oklahoma. We were all meeting up and having a big barbecue and camp out.

But this park that we were in was historically known for having Bigfoot activity. Tourists would report seeing Bigfoot there. It's a very tourist active area. locals knew about it and some of the locals that we were networked with were in attendance and friends of ours and they took us to a location that had active Bigfoot sightings taking place. I got lucky. This area was at a nature center, which is basically a small building set up by the park rangers where you can go in.

There's like restrooms you can use and you can go in and get like pamphlets and brochures and stuff and they got a few displays. But it's set in the middle of the woods. And we were actually in a parking lot for this nature center. And the group had split up and everything and gone in different directions. And I hung towards the back with this other guy.

He had a Gen 3 night vision scope that he was looking through. and he just said, Hey, Matt, come look at this and tell me what you. Tell me if you see what I see. He didn't tell me what he was looking at. So I walked over there, got the scope.

I'm looking through it. He's guiding me with his hand, showing me where to look and everything. And I see eyeshine, just inside the tree line. Distance, not real sure. It couldn't have been more than 30 yards. The night vision scope that I was looking through

was a monocular. It had a slight zoom on it. I'm not sure how much of a zoom. So that kind of throws off the distance. But I could see clearly eye shine, looking right back at me. I tried to figure out what I was looking at. It didn't really make a lot of sense. I started looking at the eyes and then could see that the eyes were surrounded by a face. It was staring right back at me, or at least it seemed like it was. The eyes were glowing very brightly. there was a branch going across the bottom of its chin, and then another branch going across its forehead. So I could see basically from the middle of the forehead,

down to just below the bottom lip. I'm not sure how long I stared at it. It seemed like forever. I took the night vision scope down in shock, and I'm like looking at him, and I was like, oh my God, is that a face? And I pull it back up to my face, and it's gone. The thing's just gone.

and where it had been, the branch that was going across the bottom of its chin was now higher up. So I think it was holding the branch down and like looking at us through the branches. What I saw, yeah, it's crazy, man, it's crazy. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, so this thing, I had a hard time. I still have a hard time with it because it's not something that makes sense. It's not human. It's not animal.

I wasn't looking at a deer. I wasn't looking at a bear. Nothing like that. It was the size of a large person, I would guess, about six feet off the ground. The eyes were what I would describe as almond-shaped, set farther apart than a human's eyes. This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. And now a break from our sponsor, Miracle Grow. Let's be real. We're all feeling a little digitally distracted and time starved lately. We're craving

real connections and ways to unplug. And honestly, gardening is the ultimate way to do this. It isn't just about plants. It's about trading the digital noise for a quiet win. As you pour your energy into helping something grow, you're pouring a sense of calm and connection back into yourself too. If you're in an apartment or you've never even touched a shovel, don't let self-doubt stop you. With 75 years of expertise, Miracle Grow takes the stress out of the process and makes it pure joy. And let me tell you what, I can confirm this from the garden I love spending time in outdoors in Los Angeles to my little potted plants where I grow herbs indoors in New York. I love working with plants. And I love Miracle Grow because whether I'm doing something in the soil or potting something in the apartment,

I'm a miracle grow takes the best care of my plants, so my plants can help take care of me. And here's the big secret. Most people think water and sunlight are enough, but no, no, your plants actually need more to truly thrive. Whether it's starting with the right soil foundation or giving plants the boost they need to stay vibrant with plant food, our friends at Miracle Grow have all the essentials

to make growing simple and stress-free. Head to MiracleGrow.com to check out all of their easy-to-use products and start your growth journey today. The next three years, L.A. will welcome the world with major events unmatched by any destination. This moment is bigger than sports. It's about the impact on our communities, businesses, and people. With the help of the Los Angeles Sports and Entertainment Commission Foundation Foundational Partners, Amgen, Archer Aviation, Kaiser Permanente, L.A. Tourism and Metro, we're investing in the L.A. community in inspiring civic pride. Together, let's show the world why we love L.A.

To learn more about the FIFA World Cup coming this June, visit Los Angeles FWC26.com. Aging is real, and so are the benefits of. New vital proteins collagen sparkling water, because around the age of 30, your body needs backup to keep your collagen up. So get your daily glow up, now in three fresh flavors, strawberry blossom, lemon, lime, and blood orange. Improved skin health in as little as 30 days thanks to collagen peptides? Cheers to that. So you can stay vital, stay you. Visit VitalProtines.com to learn more and where to buy.

These statements have not evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. Very large, very deep sunken into the head. The brow ridge was very pronounced, but the brow ridge was thicker in the middle between the eyes and tapered in as it went around towards the edge of the head. The hair was growing straight back. Slightly, I called it an Afro-style hair at the time. It reminded me of, if you're familiar with the old Wolfman movies,

like the old black and white Wolfman movies. Yep, absolutely. I couldn't see the top of the head. So I don't know if it had a sageal crest. It's just what I could see. The forehead was actually covered in hair. It didn't have a bare forehead. The hair came all the way down to the brow ridge and grew backwards up over the back

of its head. I couldn't see any visible ears. Its jaw line was very wide. The jaw sat wider than the temples did. The cheekbones were very high and pronounced. The nose wasn't like anything I've seen. I have a really hard time describing the nose because the bridge of the nose was thin and scooped out almost a plate,

but also almost human at the same time. It didn't have a bulb on the tip of its nose like we do, and its nostrils weren't like turned all the way up like a gorilla, but they were slightly upturned, but they sat really wide, really wide. And then the lips, the top lip was thinner than the bottom lip, and it looked like it had an underbite. The bottom of the jaw was sticking out farther than the top of the jaw.

the facial hair was just like basically a man's pattern facial hair if you just grew out your beard and never shaved like on the cheeks not around the eyes or anything thinner on the face and growing out longer into a beard from what I could tell yeah and that's what I saw and then it was gone didn't hear anything leave nothing like that I think I believe we had smelled something a skunky smell before I saw it. But that was, I had such a hard time processing. I guess I still do because I, it's all these years later. I can still see it clear as day in my head. It was very, that was in 2002,

September of 2002. So it was very early in my quote, unquote, Bigfoot career, which was also hard to process. Because I had talked to a lot of people and you had greats out there. John Bendernagle, who had spent their entire lives out there and never seen one. And here I am just some kid, basically, just going out there.

And I'm in a parking lot of all places. And I see one. And I'm just like, what is going on? I'm trying to figure out, is somebody hoaxing me? Could that have been somebody in a mask? They would have had to have hiked in multiple miles through the dark to find us and new. We didn't even know we were going to be there. we like eventually went there but there was multiple locations and we were just going around from

location to location and there was just no way that it could have possibly been anything and it didn't look like anything i had ever seen and yeah that was it that was it that that locked me in for life oh absolutely there'd be no getting out of it after seeing something like that mad that's wild i'm sure you've replayed that over and over. Have you had the internal discussion where it's, did I see something that's human or did I see something that's ape or is it something that is, I don't even know. Excuse me. Yeah. I still go back and forth on that. That's the thing. Obviously, these things can't just be an animal. What I was looking at was not an animal, but at the same time it wasn't a human.

And one of the most difficult things that I had with it, and I guess maybe it helped me, I don't know. But having that siding, I mean, nobody will ever be able to take that away from me. So it now became a discussion of these things do exist. So I'm skipping over all of the part of we're trying to figure out if they exist. You know what I mean? And that's where most researchers stay trying to determine if they exist or not. And now I go to a point of, oh, I know they're there. So if they're there, is this sign of them?

Are these limb structures, are, is that something that they're making? Is that noise I just heard one of them? It almost gets to the point of paranoia a bit. There's a lot of, after that point, it was trying to learn as much as I could about them. trying to understand what they are, what I had experienced, taking in multiple experiences after that. But then you have to go home and settle down and be like, give it a few days. You're like, okay, so what really happened?

What did I really experience? And kind of filter it through. And then it's also a matter of, it's a hangout that I've had for a long time because I was a researcher. Now I'm a podcaster. Now it's my job to let people share their stories. But it's hard to make that separation sometimes. Do you find that the line is very thin sometimes between those two things, Matt?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It for sure is. It for sure is. It's very, sometimes I feel like I am, you see those old movies where it's like someone is in a cultural environment and they're researching it and they have to make the conscious. decision, I'm not going to cross the line between observation because if I do, then I change the thing that I'm observing, right? And I don't know how I feel about that yet. For sure. That's the thing. So there's the side of you go out into the woods, you hear a call. These things exist at this point in your own mind. It doesn't matter what anybody else says. So was that a big foot call? You didn't see a big foot make the call.

So you can't say that it was. They exist. So what do you do with it? All you can do is document. And we weren't documenting. We weren't documenting properly. I don't think most people document properly. And I think that's a huge issue.

I talked to Mary Fabian a while back from the Pennsylvania Bigfoot Project, I believe, is the title. And she had mentioned going down to Oklahoma and spending. some time with a group down there that involved Coonbo. Did you ever, were you ever involved with a research area called Purgatory? Or is that a, sure. You were? Okay. Yeah.

Is that anything you can comment on or is it? That place is just scary as hell. It's called Purgatory. I didn't experience anything personal while I was there. It's a really weird place. People are pretty familiar with the term red dirt, especially pertaining to Oklahoma. We have a lot of iron in the soil and clay,

and it's this red color in some areas. And purgatory is one of those places where the dirt is red. And you can turn off the main road into this area, and the road, it's weird. The road goes, it doesn't go down, but the rest of the world like goes up around it. and you're basically driving through a ravine, like a small canyon. But all the roads are like that.

You turn off one road onto another and you're still like in this enclosed area where there's, it's not two lanes. It's like maybe a lane and a half. Like if a car comes towards you, you have to pull all the way over to the side to let them by. But you can't like if you're looking out your side windows, you can't see anything but a dirt wall. And then on top of that is woods.

and you just feel so enclosed in there. And it's a place that has history, that has a lot of folklore with it to spook you out even more. And then people find tracks in there and they have sightings and they hear vocalizations. And it's just such a confined, dark, scary place. And I don't know how it got the nickname Purgatory,

if that's why it's called Purgatory. but with the name and just the overall atmosphere of the area and then the environment itself, that's one of those places where it's, I did not like being there. I didn't like being there at all. We pulled off on the side of the road in this one area. It was like the only area where we could pull off. And we got out of the vehicles and we're just like surrounded by thick cedar trees. like you can't see anything.

It's just trees. There could be one 10 feet away from you and you wouldn't be able to see it. And it's just pitch black dark and I hated it. I just hated it out there. That sounds like a very unnerving place. Yeah. I'm sure how I like that. It's cool to know that a little bit more about it though because she wouldn't really get into it.

Yeah. Some of the stories, I don't want to get the stories wrong. Right. And they were all like secondhand. But like, this was a long time ago, early 1900s type time, if I'm remembering correctly, if like locals traveling through the area, you know, would break down. And they didn't want to break down in this area because the monsters would get them. And then sometimes outsiders would come along and the locals didn't want outsiders coming through there. So they had sent them through purgatory and just things like that.

that stories of people disappearing, bad stuff. There's a lot of scary stories like that in Oklahoma. That sounds amazing. I would read a book about it. And that leads me to another question. I usually bring up for Oklahoma guests. Why is it that Oklahoma has all these wild Bigfoot stories, sometimes super aggressive?

Do you think is there a storyteller aspect to the, those that are in the state, or do you think it's just the state where a lot of crazy stuff happens? I think it's a little bit of both. I think there's definitely some storytelling going on. I know for a fact there's a few famous stories out there that were fictional to begin with that have taken on a life of their own. But then I also know the siege at Ho Nubby, I remember whenever that happened. I remember being on the news. It was a major thing. It made national media whenever it happened. And I've talked to Mike Humphreys and stuff and like that story's true.

And I think that had a lot to do with how Bigfoot is viewed in Oklahoma. And I haven't really had the same experiences as other people so I can only speak for myself. But I've never been attacked by a Bigfoot. I've never felt threatened. Maybe I was, I don't know. I've had rocks thrown and stuff like that. Definitely heard some loud noises that were very scary. One time I heard what sounded like a tree being shoved over,

but I'm here. I live to tell about it. So I think a lot of it is just a lot of rumor. I think maybe Bigfoot are more aggressive in some areas. I think that not to stereotype, my fellow Okies or anything, but a lot of them, if they hear somebody walking around on their property at night, they're probably just going to shoot the shotgun out the back door and worry about it later. And I think maybe those type of interactions with people have caused some problems over the years.

What are your thoughts on the whole Area X thing since we're talking about Oklahoma? I know Kathy and Bob Strain. Okay. And I've talked to them a long time ago about their experiences there. That part of the country, it's just, that's Bigfoot's territory. I don't know anybody in that area, researcher-wise, that hasn't experienced something. I think the people involved with that location are some very intelligent people that know what they're doing. I don't keep up with their current research that much anymore,

but I was at the beginning, and they were doing some stuff that I thought was groundbreaking. Now I believe, while it's not a real popular thing, and I don't think they publicize it a lot, I think they're trying to take one. I think they're just actively trying to take a specimen. I don't know if they'll accomplish that or not, but if they do, good for them.

I know a lot of people that have tried to do that for a very long time. A lot of seasoned outdoorsmen and hunters and intelligent people that have never accomplished the mission. So I think if it were up to me, I would spend my efforts elsewhere, but to each their own. Do you think that's ever happened in Oklahoma ever? Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. there's actually been specimens.

I heard a story from someone that I believe to be true about a landowner that shot one and disposed of the body in a cistern on their property. And this wasn't like a researcher or anybody affiliated with research at all. This was just a person that thought they had a trespasser and thought they were stealing something. and gave them a verbal warning and then shot them and went out and saw that it wasn't a person and freaked out and threw it in their system. And it was something that relatives, people involved knew about. And they were, it just came up in a conversation and the right person just happened to hear the story.

And that's the only reason I even know about it. But I can't really give away too many. details. I know that's so frustrating to listeners, but because of the details, I believe that story is true. This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. And now a break from our sponsor, Miracle Grow. Let's be real. We're all feeling a little digitally distracted and time starved lately. We're craving real connections and ways to unplug. And honestly, gardening is the ultimate way to do this. It isn't just about plants. It's about trading the digital noise for a quiet win. As you pour your energy into helping something grow, you're pouring a sense of

calm and connection back into yourself too. If you're in an apartment or you've never even touched a shovel, don't let self-doubt stop you. With 75 years of expertise, Miracle Grow takes the stress out of the process and makes it pure joy. And let me tell you what, I can confirm this from the garden I love spending time in outdoors in Los Angeles to my little potted plants where I grow herbs indoors in New York, I love working with plants. And I love Miracle Grow because whether I'm doing something in the soil or potting something in the apartment, Miracle Grow takes the best care of my plants. So my plants can help take care of me. And here's the big secret. Most people think water and sunlight are enough. But no, no, your plants actually need more

to truly thrive. Whether it's starting with the right soil foundation or giving plants the boost they need to stay vibrant with plant food, our friends at Miracle Grow have all the essentials to make growing simple and stress-free. Head to MiracleGrow.com to check out all of their easy-to-use products and start your growth journey today. The next three years, L.A. will welcome the world with major events unmatched by any destination. This moment is bigger than sports. It's about the impact on our communities, businesses, and people. With the help of the Los Angeles Sports and Entertainment Commission Foundation Foundation, Amgen, Archer Aviation, Kaiser Permanente, L.A. Tourism and Metro,

we're investing in the L.A. community and inspiring civic pride. Together, let's show the world why we love L.A. To learn more about the FIFA World Cup coming this June, visit Los Angeles FWC26.com. Aging is real, and so are the benefits of. New vital proteins, collagen, sparkling water. Because around the age of 30, your body needs backup to keep your collagen up. So get your daily glow up.

Now in three fresh flavors, strawberry blossom, lemon, lime, and blood orange. Improved skin health in as little as 30 days thanks to collagen peptides? Cheers to that. So you can stay vital, stay you. Visit vital proteins.com to learn more and where to buy. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Which is totally understandable.

As we both know, half the things that we can. get told can never be told. Yeah. On the actual podcast. Yeah. Which is probably infuriating to listeners of both of our shows. Oh, it's so bad. That's how it is, guys.

I'm sorry. Yeah. I will not break anyone's trust. Yeah. Right there with you. You know, there's, you know, I'm sure there's probably been a few episodes of your shows where it's taken a year or so for a person. actually get to the point where they will chat with you, let alone beyond air.

It's wild. You know how it is, trying to find new guests and stuff like that. And every once in a while, I'll run across someone somewhere saying something. I've listened to your show for years. And then you find out that they had an encounter or something. You're like, okay, so why haven't you emailed me? If you've been listening and you had an encounter, why haven't you talked to me? A lot of people just don't want to talk about their siding.

Yep, absolutely. And I still think that not only do they not want to talk about their siding, but the number of sightings that happen that never even make it to the Bigfoot world, I think that's still a thing. I don't think everybody runs to the internet and types in Bigfoot and tries to submit a report or go on a podcast. talking about has one ever been shot in Oklahoma, that's another story. I was actually at a doctor's appointment, and I was sitting there filling out the paperwork

or whatever waiting for my turn, and I'm sitting by the door going in. And this old man's like leaving, and the door is glass. It's open, but it's glass, and I'm sitting right next to the door, so I can, like, see through it. with the corner of my eye as he's walking out, and I see him stop and look at me. And then he, like, steps back. So I turn and I look at him. And he's like, nice shirt.

And I was like, oh, thanks. Now, at the time, I'm wearing a t-shirt that's got a big foot on the back of it. But it's got the state of Oklahoma, like the silhouette of Oklahoma on the front. And I wasn't, I just thought he was another oaky, you know, another fellow Oklahomans saying nice shirt because I wasn't even thinking about the Bigfoot. And I was just like, oh, thanks. And I went back to what I was doing and he started to walk out again. Then he stops and he comes back again.

And I look back up at him and his eyes are searching around the room and everything. And then he looks back at me. He says, I shot one when I was 12. And I'm just like, what? He was like, yeah, whenever I was a kid. And he proceeds to tell me the story. about when he was 12, he was staying the night at a friend's house. His friend's dad was like a local sheriff.

He told me like, where are the properties at and everything? They were there by themselves. They heard something messing around outside. They shined a light out back and they saw this thing out by the horse corral. And the kid's dad had, I think, a rifle sitting by the back door. and the guy grabbed it and started shooting. The thing yelled and ran off into the darkness. They were freaked out.

They waited for the dad to come home, I think, told him, Sheriff's Department comes out. They try tracking the blood trail and everything. They follow it. It goes to the neighbor's property. They contact the neighbor. The neighbor said that he saw the thing run by. He was like sitting out on his front porch or something and saw the thing running by.

He couldn't make out what it was. It looked like a man, but it was dark. And this guy's telling me the story, and he's got to be, I don't know, in his late 70s, at least. And as he's telling me the story, he's giving me details of what. This is how the house was shaped. This was the room that we were in. This is the property. This is the layout.

Like it was silhouetted against the horse corral. then it ran across in front of the side of the barn. And like tears are welling up in this old man's eyes as he's telling me this story. And he's never met me before in his life. He doesn't know what I do. He just saw a guy with a big foot shirt on. And he just, you could tell he just wanted to get the story out.

He wanted to tell somebody that would listen. And I just sat there and I was just like amazed. I asked him just like a couple questions and told him, hey, I really appreciate you sharing your story with me. And that was it. We parted away as he left. And the first thing that happened, my wife is, why didn't you get his name or something to have him on your podcast?

I was like, I didn't even think of it. I completely forgot I even do a Bigfoot podcast at that point. It was just such a pure moment. Yeah. And the guy is telling me like the story of a lifetime and like tears are welling up in his eyes. It was just amazing. But so, yeah, I guess that would also count as another story about one being shot in Oklahoma that I believe.

When you think about your podcast Bigfoot Crossroads, is there an episode that kind of, you're like, ah, that was one of my favorites that people might want to check out. Oh, geez, man. I know. It's hard to answer that question. That's such a hard question without looking. All of them? Is that the correct answer? Right. There's a few. There's one. You know, you've got some of the more popular ones. A guy named Mike Bluler, who I believe started his own podcast actually, had an amazing story about having this standoff with one while he was in a tree stand hunting. This thing came down to the base of his tree stand and wouldn't leave. Pretty terrifying account. Guy got a pretty good look. look at the thing. Definitely had an impact on his life. I've had a lot of great discussions with

researchers. Shane Corson recently. I really enjoyed doing that episode. But yeah, there's just, man, there's just been so many. Gee. Got a great episode with a guy from Iowa that had some really interesting things happened. So if I've got listeners from Iowa, I know I've got a lot of listeners from Iowa, so that's where I'm from. Yeah. Bigfoot Crossroads has a great right Bigfoot Iowa episode. It's not, maybe a month or two back. I can't remember exactly.

But also the classic, the podcast you were involved with before Bigfoot Crossroads, the outlaws, how can people, is, how do people listen to that older podcast? Is there a special way to do that? There is.

That one's kind of tricky. So you learn things whenever you're a podcast. in the Bigfoot world. And so back in the day, we were on a platform called Blog Talk Radio. Oh, boy. And man, that was a mess. That platform sucked. But at the time, that's what we had.

And eventually, things happened. We quit doing the podcast. And then years later, I started the podcast back up with just Barron Cumbow. Originally, we had multiple members of the outlaws on there, but eventually it just became me, Baron Cumbull. And I gave them the spotlight, and I took the production role and was the third seat. But we did the show on YouTube. I started a, this is going to be a really long, drawn-out answer, but I feel that it needs an explanation for people understand. So in these episodes, I was only putting them on YouTube.

And so I put a loop of a campfire as the video for people to watch as they're listening. And that loop has caused me so much grief. So there's an audio track with that loop of the campfire crackling and stuff. And this third-party company that licensed audio to content creators has some software that scans YouTube for their content to make sure everybody is on the up and up with it. And it kept on pegging my videos, the Bigfoot Outlaw videos, with copyright strikes. I was getting like 10 a day. Okay.

And on YouTube, that's dangerous territory. That will yank your channel and it'll be gone forever. It was a year-long headache. I wasn't doing anything wrong. Eventually, it was sorted out with the company. but in that process, I learned how dangerous certain things can be on YouTube, and I didn't want to lose the channel or anything. My best option was to take all of the Bigfoot Outlaw videos that had that content with the campfire on there

and put it behind a paywall. And that has made people so angry. But I said it at the lowest amount. It's like under $3. And whenever you pay the $3, become a member, you get access. to the entire archive of Bigfoot Outlaw Radio, including old blog talk shows that I still have. I still have everything.

I have every episode that the Bigfoot Outlaws I've ever done, but to keep from losing my channel and to stop the stupid software from flagging my content, I had to put it behind a paywall. It was either that or go through over 200 episodes and redo all of them. And I'm sorry, I just can't do that. Over the years of you being out on, let's say, different expeditions, et cetera, were you, did you ever hear any vocalizations? Yeah.

What kind of vocalizations would you hear? What kind do you want to know about? Oh, yeah, okay, fine. I've heard screaming. I've heard growls. I've heard some sort of what sounded like language being spoken between two different individuals. I've heard whoops, of course. I've heard wood knocks.

I've heard rock clacking. I've heard, am I missing anything? I've heard a lot of strange stuff, man. We used to, one of the first piece of equipment I ever bought was called a bionic ear. Oh, yeah. A big parabolic dish that was like. super sensitive and I would record audio the whole time. Other members of the group all had parabolic dishes like that.

They would be recording audio. Thousands and thousands of hours of audio has been gone over and listened to. I heard all kinds of vocalizations. Probably the most impressive one was again in eastern Texas where I heard what I can only describe as a roar. crossed with a man screaming. It was crazy. I actually tried to recreate it digitally using some software just to try and like put something with it because nobody was recording audio at the time whenever this happened.

And so I made like this digital audio track of this scream roar thing. And little did I know that somehow people got a hold of. it and used it for nefarious means on the internet. And there's like several famous videos using my digitally created scream howl thing that I made on my computer. Oh, no way. And I didn't even know about it. Somebody sent me a TikTok video one time.

Oh, geez. And it was a clip from an old video called the Mushroom Hunter video. If it's you. That's my scream. Oh, man. Dude, I'll send you the file. No, I know the sound by heart because I've heard it so many times on TikTok. That's your sound.

That's wild. I created that on my computer in a program called Acoustica MixCraft. And I just did it as an example of what I had heard. And I used it on blog talk radio on somebody else's podcast that predates any of my own podcast. It was the first podcast I was ever associated with. I was just like a background producer person. And I created it. I think they played it.

Stan Courtney had it posted on his website because Stan Courtney was a veteran in the Bigfoot world that was focused on audio and vocalizations. And he wanted to post it on his website because he liked it. And so I gave him permission to do it. And I guess maybe that's where somebody got a hold of it at some point. I don't know how they found it. I've seen it used as the soundtrack for an old claymation dinosaur movie. I keep on running across it.

And I've tried to put out the word. I made like a short video saying, hey, if you run across this sound, I made it. Whoever's posting it is a liar. Because the Mushroom Hunter video, I didn't even know about it, man. I didn't know about it until a couple years ago.

And the Mushroom Hunter video like got on TV and stuff. Oh, millions. Oh, my goodness. when you heard the whoops, was there a pattern to the ones that you heard or anything? Yes. Yeah. I'm not going to share the pattern, though.

Let me tell you this much. Okay. So I told you, okay, I'll leave it up to you whether you leave this in or not. Oh, okay. I told you that Baron Cumbow knew how to make calls. Yep. So Barron Cumbow knew how to make calls independently. like Coombo knew how to do it and Barron knew how to do it before they ever met one another.

They were doing calls before anyone else. Now, whenever I say before anyone else, I mean, at that point in time, nobody in the Bigfoot community in the research field was doing vocalizations. Not Bobo, not the BFRO, nobody. Barron Coombo were taking a task on it. Nobody really believed that it was possible. Nobody was like, you can't call these things in. Where did you learn the calls?

Nobody wanted to believe them. The BFRO started doing call blasting. The BFRO offered BarronCumbo a spot with the BFRO. They turned it down. Then the BFRO offered to purchase recording of their calls so they could sound blast them, which they also turned down. They did not sell them the calls. There are certain individuals that do calls are very similar to the ones that Bear and

Cumbow have done, at least some of them, but Bear and Cumbow used to do abbreviated versions of the calls whenever we were on outings that had large groups of people. Because one, they work. This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. And now a break from our sponsor, Miracle Grow. Let's be real. We're all feeling a little digitally distracted and time starved lately. We're craving real connections and ways to unplug.

And honestly, gardening is the ultimate way to do this. It isn't just about plants. It's about trading the digital noise for a quiet win. As you pour your energy into helping something grow, You're pouring a sense of calm and connection back into yourself too. If you're in an apartment or you've never even touched a shovel, don't let self-doubt stop you. With 75 years of expertise, Miracle Grow takes the stress out of the process and makes it pure joy. And let me tell you what, I can confirm this from the garden I love spending time in outdoors in Los Angeles

to my little potted plants where I grow herbs indoors in New York. I love working with plants and I love Miracle Grow because whether I'm doing something in the soil or potting something in the apartment, Miracle Grow takes the best care of my plants. So my plants can help take care of me. And here's the big secret. Most people think water and sunlight are enough. But no, no. Your plants actually need more to truly thrive.

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This product is not intended to diagnose, cure, or prevent any disease. And a person who's inexperienced or doesn't know what they're doing or is in the wrong situation, they did not want the responsibility of those individuals being hurt by trying to go somewhere and repeat the calls on their own. And so they would do these shortened abbreviated calls, basically in a public setting. And somehow other people started doing those abbreviated calls. I don't know if somebody recorded them doing the calls and then it got passed around. I don't know. Maybe nothing happened. Maybe it's just coincidence. But I've heard a lot of people doing the abbreviated call, which is not the correct call. But there is certain calls that I have seen be

extremely effective. Now, with that being said, I have also seen a woman screaming at the top of her lungs be extremely effective. I've heard Led Zeppelin being blasted through the car speakers being extremely effective. I've heard people sitting around the campfire being extremely effective. So I don't know. you can put whatever you want to into that. Right. But that's the story behind those calls. That's awesome. I could never do the calls.

I sucked at it. That's just cool to think about that there's a version of a Bigfoot call that is so powerful that if it was to be used, it would like that or that it's not being used. It's got to be. Wow. I don't know. Like it was, it got to the point where there were different times where I was like, don't do that call. Really? Just don't do it.

Just because of the response was too intense? Yeah, in certain environments, like in certain situations. Because I'll be honest, man, sometimes it gets scary out there. And if I'm a mile away from my vehicle, I don't want somebody calling them in. I would like to experience them out of distance. I don't like it. I don't like the idea of them coming in up close. Can you think of a time where it was just too intense, I'd like to get out of here?

Yeah, whenever I heard the tree being pushed over. I've experienced some crazy things, man. Some crazy things. There was another time whenever I was out with the guy that I used to research with actively. So after that siding that I had down in sulfur, sulfur became my main research area. I was like, I know they're here. This is where I'm researching. Why would I go anywhere else?

I did, but for the most part, I stayed in the sulfur. And I, my house is like basically three hours away from there. And I just was fortunate enough at the time where I could spend a lot of time down there. The majority of my time was spent down there. And this one particular time, it was just being him in this area. and basically I had we had heard something do a call like as soon as we got out of the vehicle a whoop probably not even 50 yards from where we were extremely loud and there was a creek running through the area and we could hear it run across the creek and we knew exactly where it was

so we hauled butt trying to catch up with it trying to see it which we didn't and We split up, which was a mistake, and this was right at dusk. It was rapidly getting dark. We're in the middle of the woods. And I'm going down this trail. And off to my right where all the tree cover is, something is whistling. Just a single-tone whistle. It sounds like a person, but I can't see anything.

I could hear the whistle and I could hear footfalls. as it ran. And as I'm going down this trail, it just stays at my right. I walk down the trail 20 more yards. It's still to my right. So it's like paralleling me and whistling, but it's staying just to my right and just a little bit ahead of me. And I'm going down this trail. I'm just, the whole thought process is it's going to screw up. It's going to screw up. It's going to step out from behind a tree. or there's going to be too big of a gap and I'm going to see it. So I'm trying to just keep on going. And it's just staying a little bit ahead of me, a little bit ahead of me.

And as I'm going down this trail, the tree line's getting closer and closer to me. And on my left side is the creek that we heard it running across. But eventually, that creek gets real narrow and then you're sandwiched in the woods on both sides of you. And the trail just goes straight through the woods. and I got almost to where that point happens, that choke point. And I was like, what am I doing? It's getting darker. I'm by myself.

The trees are getting closer to me. This thing is like, am I being lured right now? Is that what it's trying to do? And just that whole thought process unfolding scared the crap out of me. Because according to folklore, whenever something whistles for you in the woods, you're not supposed to follow it. That's been a thing. forever. If you hear whistling in the woods, you go home. You do not go into the woods after it.

And I just like that thought that might be what's happening right now scared me so bad, man, so bad. And whenever that ice water starts running through your veins all of a sudden, it's a whole new feeling. I don't care how brave you are. Whenever you spook yourself, there's no coming back from that one. So I hauled it out of there. I met up with my friend. He was actually, at this point, he had gone around and circled back around and was on the opposite side of the creek. I could see him, but I had to walk the long way to get back to where he was. So I come back and making my way to him and off to the left of the trail now, there's this old dead log, like a huge tree that had fallen down years ago, just a massive tree.

probably two and a half, three feet in diameter, laying right next to the trail, running parallel with it. And as I'm walking by it, keep in mind, it's not pitch dark yet, but it's hard to see. And we don't have any flashlights or anything.

But on the backside of this log, there's like this, what looks like grass, like growing over the back of it, like long grass, dead grass. And I stopped. and at this point in time,

I had a walking stick with me that I just take with me whenever I got into the woods. And something flashed in my head to poke at the grass. But I didn't. I was just like, that's stupid. And I just kept walking, met up with my partner,

told him about the whistling and everything. Where was it? Let's go back there. Okay, so we're going to go back, see if it'll start whistling again. So we're walking down. the trail we come to the log and jeremiah the grass is gone there's nothing there no it's just an empty space on the backside of the log and i'm just like what and i like stop him i like put out my arm and

stop and i was like i told him what had just happened now i don't know i don't know the only thing i can think of and i know this is reaching but for the sake of a good story That dead grass was hair. That's all I can think of. And it was just laying against the backside of that log, frozen still, waiting for me to walk by. It's the only thing that makes sense, dude. Yeah. It was such an obvious, such a dramatic change in the environment, anybody would have noticed it.

And all I could think about was like, oh, man, what if I had poked it? What if I had just gone in and poked it with that stick? What would have happened? Did you ever hear any baby cries when you're out in the woods? No. Is it weird that I wanted to? Not a real baby, of course. But no, I never did. But those stories always freak me out whenever people talk about it. Or people using it as a call blasting technique. And I've just heard stories that come out of that that are very unnerving. You can bring in certain predators of all times. We had thought about doing that before. We had an idea about setting up. up a dummy camp and actually having people go in and set up camp and having like a baby doll

with them and then going in the tent and leaving the baby doll and leaving camp and then having like audio play out of the tent of the baby crying but we never did it but we thought about it so if anybody would like to use that idea feel free i got one last question for you and maybe this is So I've been in this whole Bigfoot culture adventure thing, whatever you call it, for close to five years now. Is it because I'm just noticing a certain way or does it feel like there are new hoax videos every other day now? Or has it always been like that? No, I think you're noticing correctly. It used to be a lot bigger deal.

They would make a major event out of it. And I think just because of technology and the popularity of Bigfoot, how much it's grown, that it's so much easier for people to do now. But there's definitely a lot more coming out. Most of the hoaxing that was taking place back in the day, which sounds ridiculous to me because there's obviously days, long before I came around. It wasn't in video form.

You would have a lot of hoaxed audio, and you would have just people making up stories, which I still think you do. But the video stuff with everybody having access to apps and stuff and different things that they can use to perform hoaxes, the idea that like anybody can go on the internet and buy that one big foot costume for like 100 bucks. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. Hoaxes in my time. Georgia hoax, as I call it. The Rick Dyer hoax. I used to spend a lot of time exposing hoaxers. That was kind of my thing. And it used to matter. But now, quite honestly,

certain people have a large following, and those followers are going to believe their person that nobody wants to feel like they've been due, and the internet has such a short memory that it really doesn't matter anymore. You can point out hoaxes. You can point out whatever you want, but really all you're going to do is piss people off, and they're not going to care anyways.

Absolutely. What do you think the focus of the community should be instead of maybe let's out all the hoaxers? It may be a better focus to? Yeah, for sure. I respect people that are still going out there and fighting the good fight. I definitely appreciate research groups that are out there and doing the documentation and putting in the boots on the ground time and trying to bring forth evidence.

But I think people really just need to let people do their thing and let them do it however they want to, have fun with it. If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. You shouldn't be doing it if you're not having fun. You've got to be able to laugh at yourself. a little bit. As I've gotten older and spending less time in the field, the folklore and the story side of it matters to me now, way more than it used to. And I think that it's not just this scientific endeavor to prove some uncategalogued species. I think it's much bigger than that at this point.

I think it's a whole thing. I think it's the folklore. I think it's the entertainment. along with the encounters with the creature, whatever it may or may not be, the experiences that eyewitnesses have. I think it shares all those categories at the same time, and people need to understand that what your purpose is, what you're trying to accomplish isn't necessarily what somebody else's focus is or what they're trying to accomplish or why they're here. And just live and let live.

I like that. That is so true. I'm 100% on board with that. Matt, this has been a very enjoyable conversation. I'm glad we finally were able to chat. Do you mind reminding people or how can they keep up to date with your episodes and also contact you if they would like to report anything to you down in Oklahoma about what's going on and all that good stuff? Yeah. Yeah, the easiest way is bigfoot crossroads.com.

You can find contact information. You can find links to all the social media. You can find past episodes. Everything's all right there. Fantastic. And Bigfoot Society, if you're not already, please make sure that you are subscribed to Bigfoot Crossroads on all the platforms that you can. It's a very good podcast.

If you're listening to mine, you will also love Matt's. It is a good time. I like listening to it. But Matt, thank you so much for coming on, man. And have a great night. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me, man. I have thoroughly enjoyed it, sir. Here at Bigfoot Society, our goal is to provide a platform for those that have encountered Bigfoot to share their encounter in a safe and respected environment.

But we need to hear your story. If you've experienced something that you just can't explain, please send me an email. at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. Then we can start the conversation. I know a lot of you have not shared your encounter at all. It's been 20 years, and it's time that you get this off your chest, and then you can get some well-deserved rest, because I know you haven't been sleeping.

I understand what you're going through, and I appreciate every one of you listening. This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. And now a break from our sponsor, Miracle Grow. Let's be real. We're all feeling a little digitally distracted and time starved lately. We're craving real connections and ways to unplug. And honestly, gardening is the ultimate way to do this. It isn't just about plants. It's about trading the digital noise for a quiet win. As you pour your energy into helping something grow, you're pouring a sense of calm and connection back into yourself too. If you're in an apartment,

or you've never even touched a shovel, don't let self-doubt stop you. With 75 years of expertise, Miracle Grow takes the stress out of the process and makes it pure joy. And let me tell you what, I can confirm this from the garden I love spending time in outdoors in Los Angeles to my little potted plants where I grow herbs indoors in New York. I love working with plants. And I love Miracle Grow, because whether I'm doing it, something in the soil or potting something in the apartment, Miracle Grow takes the best care of my plants, so my plants can help take care of me. And here's the big secret. Most people think

water and sunlight are enough, but no, no, your plants actually need more to truly thrive, whether it's starting with the right soil foundation or giving plants the boost they need to stay vibrant with plant food. Our friends at Miracle Grow have all the essentials to make growing simple and stress-free. Head to MiracleGrow.com to check out all of their easy-to-use products and start your growth journey today. The next three years, L.A. will welcome the world with major events unmatched by any destination. This moment is bigger than sports.

It's about the impact on our communities, businesses, and people. With the help of the Los Angeles Sports and Entertainment Commission Foundation Foundational Partners, Amgen, Archer Aviation, Kaiser Permanente, L.A. Tourism and Metro, we're investing in the L.A. community and inspiring civic pride. Together, let's show the world why we love L.A. To learn more about the FIFA World Cup coming this June, visit Los Angeles FWC26.com. Aging doesn't stop, and neither should you,

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Visit VitalProtines.com to learn more and where to buy. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. And now a break from our sponsor, Miracle Grow. Let's be real. We're all feeling a little digitally distracted and time starved lately. We're craving real connections and ways to unplug.

And honestly, gardening is the ultimate way to do this. It isn't just about plants. It's about trading the digital noise for a quiet win. As you pour your energy into helping something grow, you're pouring a sense of calm and connection back into yourself too. If you're in an apartment or you've never even touched a shovel, don't let self-doubt stop you. With 75 years of expertise,

Miracle Grow takes the stress out of the process and makes it pure joy. And let me tell you what, I can confirm this from the garden. I love spending time in outdoors. in Los Angeles to my little potted plants where I grow herbs indoors in New York, I love working with plants. And I love Miracle Grow because whether I'm doing something in the soil or potting something in the apartment, Miracle Grow takes the best care of my plants. So my plants can help take care of me. And here's the big secret. Most people think water and sunlight are enough, But no, no, your plants actually need more to truly thrive.

Whether it's starting with the right soil foundation or giving plants the boost they need to stay vibrant with plant food, our friends at Miracle Grow have all the essentials to make growing simple and stress-free. Head to MiracleGrow.com to check out all of their easy-to-use products and start your growth journey today. The next three years, L.A. will welcome the world with major events unmatched by any destination.

This moment is bigger than sports. It's about the impact on our communities, businesses, and people. With the help of the Los Angeles Sports and Entertainment Commission Foundation foundational partners, Amgen, Archer Aviation, Kaiser Permanente, L.A. Tourism and Metro, we're investing in the L.A. community and inspiring civic pride. Together, let's show the world why we love L.A. To learn more about the FIFA World Cup coming this June, visit Los Angeles FWC26.com. Aging is real, and so are the benefits of.

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