Bigfoot Society - Marc Myrsell returns to talk about his face to face Bigfoot encounter and the Thompson Flat Monster

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

In this episode, I welcome good friend Marc Myrsell back to the show where we talk about what it's like owning an aquarium, how to conduct research, the Thompson Flat Monster and a detailed chat all about his face to face encounter with Bigfoot. Resources:Westport Aquarium http://westportaquarium.weebly.com/Mountain Devil by Marc Myrsell https://sasquatchthelegend.com/products/mountain-devil-the-1924-ape-canyon-attack-and-its-aftermath-signedMarc's Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009322918254Recommended books (affiliate links)Van Meter Visitor by Chad Lewishttps://amzn.to/3W9pagCMonsters of the Hawkeye State by David Weatherlyhttps://amzn.to/3jhNj6c_______Join the only Facebook group for Van Meter Visitor fans - “Van Meter Visitor Believers” - See you there!https://www.facebook.com/groups/vanmetervisitorbelievers/?ref=shareFOR MORE INFO ON THE VAN METER VISITOR FESTIVAL:https://www.facebook.com/vanmetervisitorfestival/_______Join us over on Patreon! Get access to extra audio content, exclusive merch like a membership card and stickers, watch me interview guests weekly live on video, a Patron-only Discord and more.https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyPick up a Bigfoot Society shirt to rep the podcast!https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietyTune in for new episodes of Bigfoot Society!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7QFor full links go to:www.bigfootsocietypodcast.com

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There was a monkey man and the monkey man jumped down out of the tree and started running away. And suddenly they're right in front of the car. He slams on the brakes and manage to stop and he skidding because it's not quite, you know, and grappling. And literally for about a second and a half, they just stood there because they don't know where to go and you tell them panicking. They're like, roofing their faces. And the face is like switching. Welcome back to Bigfoot Society, a podcast where we focus on cryptids, the strange, and the unexplained of this world. If you've got a story or something weird to share, send an email over to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com.

And if you'd like to support this show, head on over to patreon.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. And now on with the show. All right, Bigfoot Society. you've got the pleasure of having Mr. Mark Mersell back on the podcast for round two. It has been a while since I've been able to have you on the podcast, but I was able to meet you in person down at CrypticCon. That was awesome. It's good to see you again, Mark.

How's it going? Thanks, Jeremiah. That was a distinct pleasure. The Cryptocon in Kentucky was my first time sort of like East of the Rockies for a conference. And so I think you and I discussed this. It was kind of odd where there were a few friends there who I had met before, but there were a lot of friends like electronic friends on Facebook and otherwise that I corresponded with. And it was great to meet them too.

And I remember I was rounding around in the lobby, getting my 20th cup of coffee. And you were just checking in. and you know you have that that Jeremiah look of your glasses and you were just checking in to the front desk it's like oh geez there's Jeremiah the feeling was mutual mark I was like oh my goodness he's a lot taller than I expected that's what you said yeah I'm usually sitting down in my there you go but no dang it was it was excellent to catch up with you and a lot of people at the conference. But I got to like brag about you a little bit if I, if I may. Yeah, sure.

Hanging out with you for the weekend, you know, you and I have like, you know, discuss stuff, you know, over, you know, messenger trading ideas and everything. But seeing you in person was a trip because I, you know, of course I've been on your podcast, we've talked. I've seen you interviewing other guests. but hanging out with you, I've got to say one thing that you really have going for you, besides your sexy radio voice, is that you, you're practically a cop. You're practically a cop.

Okay. Or an investigative reporter because it's like someone in the crowd asks a question. Oh, yeah. Just hanging around. Or you ask a question and you just sit back and you listen and you listen and you listen. If you think of a question, you'll ask that question and just let people talk. And you're really, really good at that because you have an ear. You have an ear for listening and everything is going on, database and upstairs.

you have a really, really good interview skill, a really good cop skill to really get facts out of people, I should say. And that's the first thing I came home from Kentucky. It's like, man, you should have seen Jeremiah, man. You just sit back. You just sit back and let people talk and you're taking it all in. I was very impressed. Thank you.

That actually means a lot. I do try to, I've learned, try to learn that from a lot. of a few different people that I look up to, the importance of listening, taking things in, and learning to ask the right question. And there are so many times. So the thing, you know, listeners, if you're not sure if you should go to a conference like Crypticcon, you really should because of, you know, not just like the speaking was amazing, but the opportunities to hang out with people in a group that will probably never be able to hang out

again and talk about stuff that is weird is amazing and if you're there you have to make that stuff happen and that alone was worth everything for me going down to kentucky being able to hang out with you know um mark and Alex and Eli Scott uh all those guys there are tons of people in that group that were awesome but uh let's get back to to the interview mark so you're good that was awesome um if people haven't heard the first interview i want to make sure that they know a little bit so you've got a lot of interesting things going on mark that are really cool on the one hand you're a surveyor yeah on the other hand you own a aquarium in the other hand you own a aquarium in the Pacific Northwest in Washington,

which that alone is awesome. Right, right. I often tell people, yeah, hey, I have an aquarium. That's great. Is it 10 gallons, 20 gallons? No. No, no.

I have zero idea about how many gallons I have. The aquarium that my family and I own and run was built in 1957. It's like one of those, holdovers from this giant road ball giant ball of string run by a mom and pop attraction

out here in the southwest Washington coast. And so we have 20 tanks and it's been a mom and pop operation since 1957. And we are the number six or seventh owners, I think, and

we live upstairs above our aquarium and we've been renovating it since 2009 and bringing it back to life. So, yeah, we also went in an aquarium. Which, that alone, I mean, that could be, that's a whole story by itself. What's the main thing? What's the main thing people come to the aquarium to see? Is there a main attraction?

Well, yeah, besides that weirdo guy out in West. Port and Grace Harbor County, Washington. It was like the Bigfoot guy. You know, they talk, I get, I get a lot, I get a lot of Bigfoot stories. But the, but the odd thing is, is that up until, let's see, 2004, we're kind of getting off the subject. But up until 2004, used to be able to come in to the aquarium and feed live harbor seals. Really?

The aquarium, yeah, where live harbor seals were kept here. and people haven't been here in 20 years, but they still expect live harbor seals to be here that you can feed. And that's one of our main requests that we get a lot. Can I still feed the seals? No, they left like a super long time ago. So just again, we're getting out the subject, but you can edit this out. One of the things that we've done since we picked it up is that we've strongly gotten involved with a program. for the federal government, the NOAA National Marine Fisheries,

the West Coast Marine Mammal Stranding Network. And the way we got involved is that people would show up at the aquarium. There's a baby seal on the beach and it's dying and what do we do? Well, we didn't know what to do at the time. So we got involved in the stranding network, and the stranding network through NOAA and National Marine Fisheries is where volunteers, including us, go out and we take a look at the animal, alive or dead, and make the best assessment possible for the best outcome possible.

If the animal is live, we try to keep all the football games and all the free of the games away, leave it alone, just, you know, wait for mom to come back, wait for it to return to the water under its own power. If it's dead, we'll help with the exam with our biologists. And at times, we have the opportunity through our permit in order to take the animal and re-articulated skeleton for outreach and education. So that's how it's kind of been transitioned to give you the long answer to your question. Hey, I want to feed the seals. Well, no, you can't feed the seals anymore.

we can check out all the cool stuff we do for marine mammal therapy aquarium. So, yeah, on top of all that, I just finished re-articulating a 39-foot gray whale skeleton. Oh, wow. How do you figure out how to do that, Mark? Are you just like looking it up on YouTube or like you just kind of figure it out as you go along? Well, yeah, I don't know. anything. I didn't grow up as a hunter. I didn't grow up as a farmer. I never put down an animal. I didn't deal with dead animals. But there's a great dude named Lee Post. He's Lee must be over 80

years old now. He comes out of Homer, Alaska. And he's known as the Bone Man. And so I had my first opportunity many years ago to re-articulate a harbor seal. I don't know anything about taking a part of dead animal and how to prepare a skeleton, but Lee Post, I googled it. There it was. In 1999, the Bone Man Lee Post, it was about 80 pages, and it was just this, how to re-articulate something for 20 bucks, you know, just figure out how to do it. And it was like skeletal rearticulation for dummies. Anyway, a way post is great. And he has his whole series of books,

how do we articulate a moose? How do we articulate a seal? How do we articulate a whale? How do we articulate a bird or anything? So I just bought his first book and it was Earn While You Learned kind of thing. And that's how I rearticulated a really, really big whale. That's crazy. Westport Aquarium and Westport, Washington, right?

Westport, Washington. That's right. Perfect. So you've got that going on. We've already talked about the surveying where you're going all over the place. And then the other side of Mark Mercell that most people may know if they're listening to this podcast is that you have made quite the name for yourself as regards to, Bigfoot history.

Before we, you know, I don't think in my other interview, I took the time to kind of step back a little bit though. And I want to know what was the, maybe I did ask, but what was the, there must have been a situation or something where younger Mark just became fascinated with Bigfoot Sasquatch. what was that? Well, we did talk about it. Okay. But let me reiterate. Thank you. I think it was circumstantial.

Again, I was born in May of 1966, right? And so what am I? 56, I think, right now, despite my younger looks. I think I'm 56 right now. And so I grew up in an age, along with other contemporaries in the Bigfoot research community, you know, the Monster Research Community, in an era of the early 1970s where there was, I could expound on how this phenomenon happened in the early 1970s. But there was this large renaissance in pop culture of the unexplained phenomenon, the unknown. I remember on my mom and dad's bookcase, there was a copy of Carriots of the Gods, which is an offshoot of a Rod Serlin series, of course.

And we talked about the NASCAR lines and other weird stuff. You know, at that time, books, mostly paperbacks, docudramas, TV, there was this huge resurgence in trying to look into these unknown phenomena. I think a lot of this came out of, I think a lot of this honestly came out in out of the Bigfoot phenomenon of the late 1960s, where Roger Patterson, John Green, were made a hand in to a certain extent. Other researchers were, you know, finding stuff about Bigfoot research. And I think that really propelled stuff into other stuff like the UFO phenomenon. If we have time, I want to talk about Ivan Sanderson as well. And so this, like, really got into pop culture, which later in the 70s got into things like Nemoist and Searcher.

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Of these older stories, and I wanted to find out more about them. So the other thing in my youth is that my sisters, my three older sisters, have moved out of the house, but they left behind this little nine-inch black and white screen TV. And I would always watch the late show where once in a while they would show these old weird docu-dramas, right? And so I remember this as a kid where there's this great film, I think, from 74 or 76, Sasquatch Legend of Bigfoot. And in there, it was a docudrama. and it involved researchers going out and looking for Bigfoot. But as a backtrack in the movie, they had a dramatization of the 1924-8 Canyon incident.

Exactly. It was one of the greatest. Not to date, there is another great dramatization of the Eighth Canyon incident that came out recently about two or three years ago. But I remember that as a kid of these miners. Up at 8th Canyon being attacked by this monster shadowy figure up there on the ridge top, throwing boulders down on the cabin. And it scared the crap out of me, frankly. At the time, I was like 9, 10 years old.

And that image stuck with me for the longest time. And it got me, it didn't get me into the research at the time when I was like 10, 12 years old. I realized that the ape canyon incident had happened somewhere close to me up here in the Pacific Northwest, but I didn't get into it, golly, until about 12, 13 years ago or so. I was like, what, wait a minute, what were those creatures again throwing down those boulders in that movie of Sasquatch Legend of Bigfoot? and it let me to talking with my friend Jeremiah today. I know, right? That's weird. I love that old.

The old 70 stuff is like, I love it so much. Specifically the movie, the documentary with Robert W. Morgan. Oh, yeah. Robert Morgan, yeah. It's a delight. It is such a delight. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, yeah.

About Robert Morgan, yeah, for sure. No, I know which film you're talking about. It's in search of Bigfoot. It sounds very similar to the Nimoy stuff, but it's not. No, it's not. It was a feature film. I can't remember the name of it, but it was, shall I say, highly produced at the time. It was obviously that there was a lot of recreation.

But from what I understand that film, Morgan did go up with a film crew up on the mountain. Ellen. And what you see? What was it? Was it a coyote? No good. Was it a rattlesnake? Well, there are a lot of rattlesnakes up that there are no rattlesnakes up on Mountain Ellen.

So there's a lot of hype on that on that movie as well. But I know which movie you're talking about. I have the same love for that as I do for drumming for Bigfoot from the 1990s with Franzoni. With Henry, Sam, oh, my goodness, Mark. You've seen that one, too, right? Of course. Oh, it's so good.

More people need to know about that documentary. That's why I love talking about it all the time, because it's so good. You know, the word thing is that I came of age, you know, as a young person, teenager, outside of Portland, Oregon. So I hung out, you know, downtown Portland. And, you know, I grew up as a spooky, you know, Pete Tigger. Woody Guthrie kind of fokey musician. Awesome.

And I was busking on the streets and going out to open mics and stuff. Well, there was a band that I saw a few times more than once. And I see all their, you know, eight and half by 11 band posters, you know, stapled up to all the telephone poles around town. A Cape Man Shoe Store. Are you familiar with Cape Man Shoes Store? Is that a band? Cave Man Shoe Store.

So obviously I'm not, sorry, but I'm going to write it down. That sounds awesome. You really need you. I'm not saying that their music is great, although a certain person that we just named was a band member of Cave Man Shoes Store. And I was like, Henry, are you serious? You know, I saw Henry Fanzoni when I was 17, 18, 19 years old. Oh, wow.

He was the drummer in Cave Man Shoes Store in Portland. in Oregon. And it wasn't until I met him at a friend's house during a party. I was like, holy smokes. Wow. He was a Cape Manchew store. But yeah, Henry Fanzoni was his old band when he was a kid when he was like 20-something was Cape Man Shoose store in Portland, Oregon. They have a bunch of albums out. And was that in the 70s or 80s? Did you say? That was more in the 80s. That was more in the 80s. But yeah, actually, I saw Henry Franzoni way before I got into the Bigfoot community. That is amazing. Oh, my goodness.

I love it. Oh, good stuff. What has your attention right now when it comes to researching Bigfoot history? What's the shiny object for you right now that maybe you can talk about? Well, I'm hot. I'm hot on a bunch of projects. Okay. Then I'm willing to talk about.

I'm not like censoring my words or anything. Okay. But let me just blather on for a little bit. Let's do it, yeah. Have I ever discussed with you that Dennis Morisset files in Grace Herbert County? I know my listeners are going to be like, yes, I mean, you did. Let me tell me about it. I have weird memory sometimes, Mark.

I apologize, but go for it, please. Dennis Morissette was a graceed heart. County Sheriff for a long number of years here in Grace Harbor County. Grace Harbor County is in the southwest corner, almost the southwest corner of Washington. Dennis Morissette, this is in late 70s through the 80s, and I think that he retired in the early 90s. Sheriff Morris, Morissette got the big foot bug. he had gotten reports of a number of encounters around Grace Harbor he had responded to some himself

it got to a point where it was so interesting and there were so many numerous reports that according to legend not so much legend but according to the legend, he authorized his deputies during working time to respond to 911 calls that they got of this large hairy man out in the woods or, you know, pounding on someone's house or looking through their windows or whatever. And he authorized deputies to go out and respond. from what I understand, as long as it didn't interfere with regular law enforcement business. So there's somebody who calls and says, there's this large creature out in my backyard,

and it's looking through the windows and it's attacking my dog or whatever. The deputies would go out and respond. And then if they get the call on the radio, you know, there's a robbery or there's like real criminal business. Then they had to break off and swear. But if that didn't happen, they would investigate, they would make up a report, sometimes from what I understand with Polaroid photos, and bring it back to Sheriff Morissette. Well, he did this for a number of years, and there are, there were a number of deputies working under Morissette, including a man named Herrifate. who under his claim to fame with his name are the Hereford castes out of Grace Harbor County. Oh, sure.

And so I also have a number of articles regarding the Hereford casts, where they do mention that Sheriff Morissette was keeping this file. This file, allegedly, is in the vicinity of like an inch to two. inches thick. So when Hereford was retiring, excuse me, when Morrisette was retiring, there were some casts in the sheriff's office along with this file. The casts and the file were to be delivered to a local museum in Ocean Shores. the castes made it

but the file did not where's that file I was given this project by a couple of good friends up here also members of the Olympic project where nobody knows what happened to that

inch to two inch file that Morissette was keeping I have tracked it down and I'm that close defining that most of the deputies involved are now passed on and dead. There was a building fire for one of the deputies where the file could have been destroyed. The issue is that Old Man Hereford, who is semi-retired from the state of Washington is still around. He's my last bet to attract that. I've called every single museum in the entire region.

I've called State Archives, I've called National Archives. Nobody knows anything about it. But Perford is still alive, and he is probably my last bet of tracking down the Morissette file. Have you met it?

If you get down this Morissette file, it'll be gold. Wow. It will be an entire history of Sasquatch activity that's been reported on by deputy sheriffs in Fort Deppard. Wow. Do you know where Hairford is? Yes.

Wow. I'll call him tomorrow. Oh, you're calling him tomorrow? I need to get up the courage because a friend said he doesn't want to talk about it. It's something that happened many years ago, many decades ago, and he doesn't want to talk about it. But someone's better talk to him about it because that files out there somewhere. So the way I see it is I would I would recommend you do it. You got a 50-50 chance or if you don't do it at all, there's 100% chance that it will, it'll never be found 100%.

You got a 50-50 chance though if you try to call them though. Exactly. Exactly. That thing about, well, everything in life. Yeah. I think it was Groucho Marx or Woody Allen, the famous quote, is that 99% of life is just showing up. All you're going to do is just show up, make that call,

knock on someone's door, that's 99% of life. If you don't do it, like you said, that's 0% chance. You know, it's going to be gone. When you get that lead, again, I'm always beating the dead horse. When you get that lead, pursue that lead. do not let it go. Pursue that lead because a year from now, someone's going to be dead and everything's going to be lost

because their son and daughter threw it away in the trash or whatever. Oh, absolutely, because everyone's not super weird like we are. And, you know, non-Bigfoot people are looking at this, like, folder, like, what are all these old clippings and writings? This is just whatever. Get out of here, you know? And it's in goodwill or something. They might as well be like old tax returns or something.

Exactly, yeah, exactly. But to us, it's priceless, you know. Exactly. And that's the whole point. That's the whole point of culture, honestly, to expound philosophical. I really believe that there's only like a tenth of a percent of every generation that keeps culture going, whether it be like my weirdos who make bagpipes for a living or my weirdo friends who are in Bigfoot research.

It's just a few, it's this tiny, tiny percentile of people that keep culture going in a civilization every time. And it's just knocking on doors and making the phone call,

right? Well, and like, to talk about, so like when I was researching 1970s Bigfoot in Iowa, I got to think real quick. Okay.

So, about what's public what's not um you must be this must be like what you are like all the time like constantly having to like do jenga in your head um but it's like so you got to think about it because like some of these guys they haven't talked about bigfoot since the 70s and then you get like some random dude like if you want something done right you do it yourself that's why you change your own oil you wouldn't trust your engine to just anybody so go with the full synthetic motor oil you can trust. Penzoil Ultra Platinum offers engine

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On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? the ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients

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And you feel... Uh-huh. And more. More? Huh. I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age. Oh, get ready, girl. Ooh, la, la.

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Use coupon code IHeart for a $10 telemed appointment at adi.com. Calling them out of nowhere, like 40 years later, and they're like, how did you track me down? You know, like, that's got to, like, blow your mind as a person to have someone. like track you down about something you were into like 40 years ago just because of some little phrase on the internet that's nuts mark i um you asked me what i'm into yeah uh i got to tell you um this is not a dead project okay um i just i did that um golly what was it it was over a year ago um when in in the in the bigfoot community we have the horseman, right?

You know, John Greene, DeHengan, all this thing. And they, they, well, they were basically the first that took Bigfoot research incredibly seriously, right? But fortunately, unfortunately, they were the first. And so putting their name out, because John Green was, you know, running a newspaper, you know, and Harrison Springs and stuff. So he's got a name for himself. Exactly. And then with Patterson,

the Hinden made a name for himself. Byrne certainly made a name for himself. All these people started like throwing all these stories at them. You know, every day these guys must have been like picking up the phone on. But oh, I have a story for you. They were inundated, incredibly inundated with all of these reports. and they were just like, you know, single guys. I mean, Byrne had some people working for them,

and John Green had maybe a person working for them, but these were just guys going out and looking for big foot. Well, they certainly couldn't handle all of these reports. I think, in my opinion, John Green was one of the best just to, like, write down two sentences of a report that we got and stick it in the file. And so those early 1970s booklets, books that Green published did have a fairly good compendium of those reports. But they didn't have time to look into it.

You know, they were super busy because they were getting like whatever 50 reports a month or whatever. So there was this next generation that I think that the horsemen truly inspired. And I think that because many of them are still alive, those are the folks that we very much want to concentrate on today. Absolutely. You and me, Jeremiah. Absolutely. Folks like John Andrews, Larry Lund, right? Those are the people, like they were a little bit younger than John Green and those guys.

And these guys are still alive. I just spoke with Larry Lund for the first time over the phone. Oh, wow. About three weeks ago or so. Well, maybe like six or eight weeks ago. And it turns out he lives like pretty close to my house in Vancouver. Really? So I have a meeting set up with him.

But my point being, one of them who is sort of like the, I don't want to say an unsung hero, but he was of that Larry Lund, John Andrews generation. and he was highly active in research in the early 60s, the 70s, the 80s. The guy's name was Richard Grover. Oh, that sounds familiar. Yeah, Richard Grover was highlighted in some of the early conferences. And he was a known guy. He wasn't like a star or anything.

But a lot of people knew who Grover was. well what inspired me again getting back to these early you know right i believe it was bigfoot man or beast and i believe that was 1974 so of an incident in bigfoot man or beast it's just a 60 second clip of an incident that happened up in this neighborhood called five heights in Fife, Washington, near Tacoma, where a couple of young cats were coming home from a party. I believe it was Saturday night.

And it's a residential neighborhood on this road, and up to the right, it's all residential houses, but off to the left, there's a steep drop-off that goes down into a creek. When you pull up to this one intersection, these two guys see at the stop sign there's this creature that its head tops over the top of the coast. The creature takes a two or three strides across the street to go down into the canyon down to the creek, like 200 feet below. It grabs a left-hand yield sign, bends the sign, and leaves scratch marks.

scratch marks I saw that when I was kid and in all these years I've been like what happened to that sign well it turned and so in Bigfoot Manor Beast Richard Grover responded immediately

in 1969 he ended up going down to the street department actually acquiring this sign this bent sign with a scratch marks on the back of it and keeping it So what happened to that sign?

What happened to Richard Grover? I was able to interview Grover about a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, Grover passed a few months ago. But I talked with Grover, golly, for an hour, over an hour over the phone. I was also able to track down one of the original witnesses who was there in the car at 2 in the morning, you know, to try to figure out what happened, also what happened to this sign. This sign is nearly lost, but I'm not calling it lost because I do have a lead on trying

to track down this sign from Bigfoot Manor B. You've got this pipe pipe, right? So my point being is a two-two point. You get to track this stuff down as you find out about it. And also, I hate to call Larry Lund and John Andrews old timers or myself an old timer or David Ellis an old timer. But you have to get these people online right now to get their story down because there is a wealth of information. They're wealth of information. I think about that constantly because it's like, you know, even though there's a generation where,

Yes, you can get the interview still, but it is extremely hard. The chances of you getting that interview, Peter Byrne, probably not going to happen. Robert W. Morgan, unfortunately, health-wise, it's not going to happen. But you're right. And Lund is he in 70s, late 60s? That's the generation that needs to be focused on right now. And these guys would have. Oh, go ahead.

That was my hard part about Dick Rover. It's because he was in Las Vegas at the time when I talked to him. Oh, wow. And he went on and on about Bigfoot, his history, his history and its history in researching Bigfoot, how it kind of hit the skids where he called it the curse of Bigfoot. and that was part of why the sign

as well of all of his files all of his cassette recordings were lost was he called it the curse of Bigfoot where according to Grover he and his wife got into a screaming match argument one night and about how much time he was spending

researching Bigfoot and she was pissed about it she was very angry about how much time you were spending about it. And he was like, fine, I'll show you. And he took everything, yarded it out of the office, and threw it in the front yard. And there sat forever.

And totally amazing. So, it's one of those things. You have to strike while the iron's hot. But this hard part about talking to Grover, he was down in Las Vegas, down in his luck,

my niece helped him out quite a bit eventually but when I talked to Grover over the phone he was like you know what I'm ready to come back into the different research community

I would like to talk to people about my research and he was ready go on conference tour as well but then he passed and it's too last this loss

so point taken point taken these folks are not going to live forever. No. You need to get the stories out. Whether they're well-known researchers or just old, old, obscure stories,

you have to track them down and talk to them about it right now. So, Mark, that brings up an interesting question. How do you track down these people? Well, Jeremiah, it's easy. Okay. No, I know, because I've tracked down people. Check down me.

Well, I just do. Okay. Let me give you one example. All right. And a little, let me give you one example with a little bit of a plug. And about 8th Canyon. Okay. When you think about 1924 in the 8th Canyon attack,

and actually the 8th Canyon incident actually took place between 1918 and 1924. The youngest of all the 8th King and miners was a guy named Leroy Perry Smith. And he was not involved early on in trying to find gold up on Mount St. Helens in 1918. He was like 14, 15 years old at the time. But in 1924, he was there in 1924. And actually just prior to that in 23 as well, But he was there during the attacks. Wow. Young kid. Well, sorry.

A young kid. 18, 19 years old. Well, he, um, one thing he was quoted in in the newspapers in 1924 after all these horrific events was that I don't know what happened to me. I'm paraphrasing. I don't know what happened to me, but I know that. I never want to have anything to do with it ever again. Oh, my goodness.

And that's what he was quoted as. And where he saw this creature, he saw this creature more than the other guys did, the other 8th January miners, he saw this creature many, many times and shot at it, right? He was freaked out about it. And at the end of the day, for all those years, until he died in 1975, he never said a word. so he never said a word so much so that when john green and other researchers came up to longview kelso and interviewed fred back fred said oh wait and talk to my brother-in-law leroy smith but he doesn't really want to talk about it so john green actually said

that he knew about leroy smith but he didn't want to talk about lewry smith but he didn't want to talk about it, so I didn't knock on a store. I got that actually from Todd Prescott. Okay. He was ongoing very well. Oh, yeah, of course. But

the point being is that being an 8th Canyon nerd, is that how do you track these people down? Well, being an 8th Canyon nerd, I want to find out everything. So I found a Lee Woy-Paris obituary in the Longview Daily News

in Longview, Washington. And it listed the survivors, as most of the jurors do. And it listed a son and a daughter and two young folks who were living with them. So the daughter, the name is Betty. I just Googled her name. She's running by her married name now. Well, I found a phone number for her through Googling because there was a newspaper with. where she was involved in like the high school alumni association and listed her number and sure enough the phone number worked and there she was through a long story she's still alive and and so I was able to interview her I met her just once so far

charming woman, incredibly sharp. And the thing is about two things, about Betty Mitchell is that the story was, was that she knew about the Eighth Canyon story of 1924. She didn't know it was her dad and her grandfather involved with it. No way. Until I told her. Oh, my goodness.

She didn't know it was her dad. She didn't know her dad as an example. Hey, Betty, did your dad ever talk to you about his early days when he was a teenager with your grandfather up there, mining up there on Mountain Helens? And she was like, no, you know, that's kind of weird. He never talked about any kind of mining. But when dad died up in the dresser drawer, dad's dresser drawer, dad's dresser drawer. Dad's dresser door after he passed. We were cleaning out his dresser drawer,

and we found this tiny little burlap bag filled with gold nuggets. And we never knew where that seemed from. But the fortunate thing is that I'm in tight with Betty's grandson, a very good friend of mine, and I have a conference coming up

in Kelso, actually in Kelso-Longue in January. And I only have 50 minutes, but I'm blocking out the last 10 or 50 minutes because I actually have a very, very good chance of getting ReloCarrie Smith's daughter. If you want something done right, you do it yourself. That's why you change your own oil. You wouldn't trust your engine to just anybody. So go with the full synthetic motor oil you can trust.

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Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel... Uh-huh, and more.

More? Huh. I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age. Oh, get ready, girl. Oh, la la. Man, I feel like a woman. Meet Addie, the little pink pill. Addie is a prescription medicine for women under 65

with hypoactive low sexual desire disorder that's distressing to them. Addy is for low desire that happens in all situations and isn't caused by a medical condition, relationship issues, or medicines. Addie isn't for men or to enhance sexual performance. Addie can cause severe low blood pressure and fainting. Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose. Don't take Addie if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients.

Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all. the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy, or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth. Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings. Use coupon code iHeart for a $10 telemet appointment at adi.com. The last living person, yeah, I'm getting the Leroy's daughter up on stage with me for Q&A. Oh my goodness. This only happened once. I was at a conference. up in Seattle, and that's where I met Betty. And she and her grandson came in, my friend Tyler,

and that's where I got introduced. And she and Tyler were like, oh, I just want to, I'd like to hear the speakers, and Shane Corson was speaking at the time. And so I ran over to one of my Bigfoot friends, dude, the daughter of one of the original eight canyon miners is in the audience right now. and this 75-year-old woman left like a rock star.

It was like Arthur Richards walking into the Bigfoot conference. Everyone went up and tried to shake her hand and wanted to talk to her, this older woman. Everyone wanted to know my friend Betty. So hopefully she'll be showing up until so long view this January. But anyway, to answer your question, that's what you do. Yeah. Go to the newspapers, look at the obituaries, track. down every single way to find out where these people are because more likely they're not

if it's relatively recent they're still around that's how you check them down by any means necessary yeah exactly because if you don't the information will die and that seems very like straightforward and blunt but that's the way it's going to go if you don't the information will die and it'll be gone forever it's not on the internet no Yeah, it's all on the internet. No, yeah, right. Nothing is on the internet. Nothing is on the internet.

Nothing. There's a conversation that we had at CryptidCon. Me and my friend Scott and yourself, we got to chat for a few minutes. And I think that that conversation might be helpful to the audience as well. I remember I asked you, what if you were looking for a newspaper and you couldn't find it anywhere where would you look for it mark like how do you find newspapers that you know might exist but like you can't find it anywhere okay i'm going to give you an example okay i'll answer your question okay um again an 8th canyon reference because we're

supposed to be talking about this but instead um uh said that uh 8 8 canaan uh none of the miners ever returned to the mining cabin site, ever, except once and only two of the miners went. And it was encouraged by the Portland Police Department. Now, a geographic background, Mount St. Helens is in Washington. And to get from Portland to Mount St. Helens, well, today, let me say, say Portland to where you car park and go up the trail, it's about an hour and a half. In 1924, they took a heck of a lot longer. Some weird reason, two Portland policemen contacted the miners, particularly Fred back.

Well, I think at first they contacted Marion Smith, but they contacted Fred Beck. We want to go, we want to go. this was across state lines and entirely outside of their jurisdiction. Why those two Portland policemen wanted to go up to the cabin site, I have no idea. But I do have their names, but I have their pictures. And so Fred Beck wrote in, or he didn't write, but he has actually interviewed, that he went up there with two Portland policemen, along with Leway Perry Smith.

It was just Fred Beck and Leroy Smith that went up there about a week after the attack. Two Portland policemen, one of my holy grails of Eighth Canyon, a newsreel crew as well, which means there could be a newsreel still out there with a hotel at the cabin site. But thirdly, reporters from the Portland News, could you just imagine Googling those two. terms, Portland News, and try to find, this is the name

of a newspaper. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's very ridiculous. You're never, ever, ever going to find it.

Yeah. Here's how you find it. I'm actually on another research project, which is not, and today, it's not monster related. Okay. I was just talking with my wife about it.

I hate to say, the greatest bastions of our culture are librarians and archivists. Absolutely. So after searching forever for this newspaper called the Portland News, I looked forever for it. Couldn't find it. I went to the reference librarian, the head reference librarian at the Molmanama County Library in Portland.

Oh, shoot. Margaret's out to lunch right now. She'll be back to about an hour. You know, didn't Margaret have that weird three-wing binder up on her shelf with all these old newspaper references? Where is that? So all these reference librarians were scouring Margaret's office. And couldn't find it.

Well, she should be back pretty soon. Go do something else. So I just screwed it around in the reference section. Yep. To come back to the reference desk, about 20 minutes later, there she was. 75 years old. And there she was with a three ring binder that was all hand-typed written out on 8.5 by 11 paper. And she was like, oh, yeah, Portland News.

There it is right there. Go to your librarian. Go to the oldest librarian you can find. Go to the oldest archivist you can find. Wherever you're looking, find the oldest librarian. I have a ton of stories that I can go on and on about. Find the old people because these people are the biggest badasses in the world. They hold our history.

And so it turns out that Portland News is on microfilm, but it's only in two places. One is in Portland. She did go to find it. Oddly enough, the other wheel is in Kansas City, Missouri. But that's the only place you find it. Kansas City. So, I mean, reference librarians know their stuff, dude.

We have to track down the old newspaper people. You have to track down the old archivists. You have to track down the old librarians. And, you know, it's not on the Internet. State Archives, National Archives, I talked to National Archives today. Yeah, good, good, good people. But more often than not, these old references are not digitized. Moreover, they're not indexed.

A lot of our culture, a lot of our history, Monster History, and otherwise, is just on microphone. It's sometimes just in paper form. in these old archives. Founding Historical Society's newspaper. Newspakers as now. You have to go to the source. And that's one of the hardest parts

about long-distance research projects is that many times these original resources are still where the incidences took place. You have to travel to those areas, specifically you have to find the time and the money to go to those exact areas. I have a research project, a monster research project in Northern California,

where the newspapers are not indexed. The newspapers are not archived. I have to travel down to a trade of you like in order to go to the newspaper to find it. Oh, wow. That's crazy, man. That's when the rubber meets the road, because it's like, this isn't just me sitting in front of my computer now. This is me getting in a car multiple hours to find the truth

and is it actually worth it to me, you know? Oh, well, no, dude, it's always worth it. Oh, yeah, totally. It's always worth it. Yeah. Those many, 90, 95% of your leads and in an absolute dead end, an absolutely dead end. But it's that 5 to 4%

that don't. You may not get to your goal, more often than not, it's going to lead to other leads, but that gives you something else to work on. Track down those other leads, track down those other leads. Don't, that's one thing that my family says, is that when I smell a bone, I'm digging. Yeah, exactly.

I'm giving to that bone, and I will not give up. Absolutely not. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, no, I get it, man. I've done it, turn to you late. I've done a little bit of a bonus now. I love it. Oh, man, that's good.

There's a lot of good information that people can take away from that little segment we just had. If you are into researching the history and finding some tales for yourself, which everyone should try that. It's a fun time. It's good stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. What is, what's a time mark that you saw something in the woods that you can't explain, or that's hard for you to explain? This is a long story. Okay.

You know, I grew up with my family, obviously, and my longtime heritage. for hundreds of years is Irish Catholic. And I didn't grow up. I went to Mass like, you know, twice. But I didn't even grow up Catholic, but I grew up Irish Catholic culturally. And everyone says, you know, Mark, I asked you a yes or no question.

Could you stop talking to answer your question? Because it takes you forever to answer your stupid question. Because it does take me like 20 minutes because, you know, Jeremiah, you ask me a question, don't you want to find out the full details? Oh, totally, yeah. Yeah. So what you're talking about is down in Southwest Oregon and Curry County, Oregon. It was a project that I think is going to see me in the ground before I get done. done with it.

I'm calling it the Toxton Flat Monster. You've got it. A.k.a. The Wild Man in the Sixes. And this is something that happened down in Curry County, Oregon. Earliest reports of the wild man of this creature down in Curry County, Oregon, having encounters with humans, the earliest reports was around 1874 where a prospector

colloquially his name is Nugget Tom He was a prospector up there Because it's a gold area His name was Colloquially his name is Nugget Tom But I finally tracked down his real name Nugget Tom was up there

And he Had Pretty good leave Not a claim yet, but he had a pretty good lead. And he told his friends that he was going to go up there and go prospecting. Well, Tom didn't come back. Tom didn't come back. And his friends were like, geez, we better go up there and looking for Tom.

It's up on Star Mountain on the south side of the south, fourth of the Sixth of the Sixth River in Curry County, Oregon. So they go up looking for him. And they knew about where Tom was going up there looking for gold. and they find him. He's unconscious. And they bubble up his body and he's not dead, but they have to take him back into time and nurse him back to health. And they pick up his bags and they pick up his rifle.

And they take him on back to Port Orchard. And they're nursing him back to health. If you want something done right, you do it yourself. That's why you change your own oil. You wouldn't trust. change it to just anybody. So go with the full synthetic motor oil you can trust. Penzoil Ultra Platinum offers engine protection for the lifetime of your vehicle.

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Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel... Uh-huh. And more. More? Huh. I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age. Oh, get ready, girl. Ooh, la, la.

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Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose. Don't take Addie if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you've had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy, or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth. Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings. Use coupon code IHeart for a $10 telemed appointment at adi.com.

And one of the guys who found him at the bottom of this bluff, he looks in his bag and he sees this huge hunter courts and on the end of the hunter quarts is the biggest gold nugget this guy had ever seen wow in the nugget tom had found gold when when method tom comes to he explains his story tom is crouched down by himself with his axe and he's uh checking out the rocks in the dirt something from behind him grabs him by his clothes picks them up bodily, completely off the ground, throttles them, and throws him down this bluff, where his friends found him.

Tom said it was so quick in a flash that he really couldn't see what had grabbed him, but he said the thing was incredibly big and obviously incredibly strong in order to pick him up, and it was entirely covered with hair. Tom shortly thereafter He would Recovered

He did recover He got out of town He got rid of his plane And he sold his plane To a couple of fellows named Benson and Robbins Benson and Robbins Were two prospectors who took over his plane

Well Things started kind of rolling downhill after that Benson and Robbins had heard noises in the woods. They had seen these creatures out there in the woods. There's something important about this story that is reoccurring over all of these accounts that last into the 1880s, 1890s, 19 teams where these creatures are not these monstrous

eight-foot-tall patio like creatures all of them are described like about six to seven feet tall and all of them are blonde or yellow in hair they're entirely covered with hair and they're walking up right big foot style but they're entirely covered reportedly with blonde or yellow hair uh Benson and Robbins are seeing these creatures they come back up to their camp and their camp which is up on a little bit of the ridge, is entirely being torn apart by this creature. This is late in the day.

And this creature's up there just tearing the crap out of their camp. Very aggressive, yelling, screaming. They take some shots at it to no effect. Their shots could have no effect on this creature. But I'm out of here and they split. Well, gold is gold. This area in southwest Washington in Curriek County came to be known as the gold rush of southwest Oregon. Okay.

As a small setter smell because there was gold coming out of the hill, gold coming out of the mountain. And everyone rushed up there to get this plant. At the time, I have a great newspaper report from 1879 where a newspaper reporter went up there to, he heard about the gold rush up there and he went to interview people about it. It was a great report. It linked the article from 1879 where he said that there were about 40 people living up there. at the time they started out with load claims but then they went on to plaster claims and there were about 40 people living up there mainly men some of the men living with their wives a couple of children as well and it was mainly tent camping a little bit of cabins that have been built up there and they're heading into the south fork of the 6th is there's an inlet known as Butcher Gulch.

And so this whole encampment, this small community, became known as Butcher Town. And so the issue is that, well, what was going on is that everyone had, all these people were not working like one claim, they were working individual claims. their individual, like, on cluster locations. And so they would go work their claims, and they would come back at night and share food,

share stories, share goods. Well, there's this fellow name, John Jensen, with his name, it's probably Swedish, Nordic, Niongensen. And where's John? this time. Well, we better go knock on his cabin or checking his tent and he's not there. And so they

go up and we'll go up to his claim. And so they go up to his claim and he find his body. Oh, no. With his head bashed in, allegedly, with the rock that bashed his head in, still

laying there, bloodied. This is a period of about 18 months where four of the minds, showed up dead during this whole series of incredibly aggressive encounters, aggressive encounters with this large hair-covered beast up there. So the next one is McCloan. McCloan is missing to go up there. And he find McClone next to his location with his body beaten to a pulp, completely beaten

to a pulp while all of his bones are broken, right? Man. So the next one is a fellow named Thomas Johnson. The next one is another fellow, which is his name is Mike Madigan. One by one, each one of these miners are found with their heads bashed in or their bodies beaten to a pole. This is way out in the National Forest. This is a big area. We were able to locate the burial ground because they didn't haul them back up.

10 miles back up to town. They just buried them right there. We were able to find where these bodies were buried. Wow. A little burial plot on the National Forest. And so it keeps ongoing where the report was with Mike Madigan just before he died. He was known as the huntsman going out there and finding meat for Butcher Town. He goes out with his two dogs.

up there on the hillside he sees this large hair covered creature up on top of the hill one of his dogs takes off to attack the creature Madigan starts firing shots into the creature

to no effect the creature grabs his dog, throttles them, beats him up and turns out of the way before Madigan can stop him his next dog takes off the creature is killing his dog

Madigan shoots him again and splits the bullets are having no effect on him at all at the end when everyone is split Butcher Town because of this creature

showing up and doing terrible stuff to Butchertown Madigan is up there by himself and usually comes back into town every couple of weeks or so Madigan doesn't show up. And so his friend,

Ramsey, Doc Ranthie, goes up there to go up there and looking for him. And he doesn't find him at all. Madigan's the only guy up there. And Ramsey's up there, and he can only see this pile of rocks near Madigan's cabin. And it's like these rocks that piled up there are naturally. he pulls the rocks away and sure enough there's a partially decomposed body

inside this pile of rocks Ramsey said he knew it was mad again because of his side arm and his knife that was still on his belt so we have four people up there killed by unknown means with a perp

who has been known to have aggressive behavior up there Circa 1890. Okay. So then what got me into this story was up there at Thompson Flat. Mind you, to give you a geography

of Thompson Flat, Thompson Flat is like that. No, it's like that. It's incredibly steep going down. It's like the mini Rockies heading down in the South Fork the Sixth River. There are just a few flats. I mean, very limited flats down there.

At Thompson Flat, there was a claim owner who his sons built a cabin up there to work the claim. In 1904, it's called the Harrison Cabin. Ben Harrison Sr. at the claim, Ben Harrison Jr., and Bob Harrison, the brother, built a cabin up there. And so there was a fellow named Ward who was up there in 1904 with a partner named Burlington who was working the claim for Harrison. And one night the cabin gets attacked and beaten on it. 2004, a golden, this is one thing that took the now is if the gold mine, a cabinet's getting attacked, but it wasn't ath canyon. and it was 20 years prior.

That's weird, yeah. And so the cabin's getting attacked. Warden Burlington bust out of there, and there's this huge creature up there, and they catch shots into it into the creature, and the creature turns around and goes back down over the ledge. About a week later, Ward is there again with the two Harrison boys, Ben Jr. and Bob,

and this time they're ready. The cabin gets attacked again. They open the door and sure enough, there's this big creature. They take shock into it. They turn around. The creature turns around and goes back under it. Into the woods.

So this whole story really intrigued me about all these dead bodies, all these dead minds of the Harrison cabin getting attacked in 1904. So I really got into it. Golly, about eight years ago, so started re-researching it. Fortunately, about a year and a half ago, a good friend of mine very, very much encouraged me because he wanted to do a documentary on the whole Thompson flat monster incident. We went up there and it was a good film research trip.

We documented a lot of the historical sites and everything. But the good thing is that we found the Harrison Cabin. We were able to verify the Harrison Cabin through a very strange set of circumstances, which I can go on and on about. We were able to find the Harrison Cabin for 1904. The weird thing is that this is, this is, this is something that should not have happened to me, frankly.

I was just out there for a fun trip to help with the film project and do my nerdy historical research stuff, right? After 15 minutes, I'm going to answer your question now. There were two PAs, Gordon and Jameson, along with the folks who were helping us out, Kim Christensen, who's a local person and has their own research project up there, which is really, really cool. It doesn't have anything to do with monsters, but it's right up there. It's more geologic. Also, I was up there with James Faye, Bobo, along with Routy. Ready, Kelly.

And well done. This is November before last. And well done. Came up out of the bottom. Okay, let's pack up camp. Let's get out of here. The two PA's production assistance from Northern California, Gordon and Jameson, okay, goodbye.

They get in their car and they split back to Northern California. About half an hour later, Kim, who lives about, oh, 10, 20 miles out. I'm going to go home. Okay. All that Bobo and Rowdy had to do was park the quads back up in the trailer. And so we're all going to meet back down at the highway. And we're all going to, Rowdy and Bobo and I are all going to meet down at the highway

because that's where we're going to get reception, internet reception because we have more filming work to do the next day. So we have to figure out, you know, where we're going to eat and where we're going to stay and everything. And so okay, fine. Gordon and Jameson have already split. And Kim has already left. And it's like, okay, I'm going to meet you, Bovo and Rowdy, down at the highland.

And I'm going to go. If you want something done right, you do what you do what you're going to do. yourself. That's why you change your own oil. You wouldn't trust your engine to just anybody. So go with the full synthetic motor oil you can trust. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum offers engine protection for the lifetime of your vehicle. So do it right with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. Stock up now at Walmart. Penn's Oil. Long may we drive. Limited lubrication warranty for lifetime engine protection. Other conditions apply including enrollment and receipt requirements. See pensoil.com slash warranty for full details and terms. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt.

What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same.

Looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on Plant Kelly. Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel... Uh-huh, and more.

More? Huh, I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age. Oh, get ready, girl. Ooh, la la, la. Meet Addie, the little pink pill. Addie is a prescription medicine for women under 65 with hypoactive low sexual desire disorder that's distressing to them. Addie is for low desire that happens in all situations

and isn't caused by a medical condition, issues or medicines. Addy isn't for men or to enhance sexual performance. Addy can cause severe low blood pressure and fainting. Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose. Don't take Addie if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth. Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings. Use coupon code IHeart for a $10 telemet appointment at adi.com. So I know you guys are like five or ten minutes behind me, whatever.

So I take off of my car down the road, a little forest service road. It's about forest service road-wise, it's about 20 miles back down to Highway 1-on-1. I go down about four or five miles. And there's Kim parked along in her Subaru Forester parked along the side of the road. And like, are you guys? Are you okay? And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just checking out maps to a trail to a lake where she had had activity before. I'm like, okay, so I keep on going.

It's about 5.5.30 or so on a November night afternoon. It's dark because it's autumn. And it's also a national forest, you know, large trees. It's very dark. and I'm in my crappy Honda Odyssey and I drive like an old lady. And I'm getting up 25 miles an hour. And this Forest Service road is like about a lane and a half. And I'm driving with my lights on.

As I'm driving after I stayed goodbye to Ken, about a mile or two behind me, I can occasionally see her headlights behind me. And I'm going through the curves through the tree. And so I go around a curve and in front of me there's a slight incline. About 5 to 7%ish, I can see about 2 or 300 feet in front of me before the road press and goes downhill. And I go around a curve and right there in front of me, like 2 or 300 feet in front of

me, there is something dashing around. playing around in the middle of the Forest Service road. Wow. I got to tell you, Jeremiah, this is about five to six seconds of my life that totally screwed me up. And I'm not kidding you. Um, I told, I tell friends, maybe I told you, um, you know, this is something that happens to other people.

I'm just the academic research history. This is something that, what if Dr. Jeff Meldrum came out with this story? It's like, this should not have happened to me. There's something that has come, let me do my hands again. Coming out of the riverbed, it's very, very, it's like that steep, there we go.

That steep road bed. and then it keeps on going uphill about that steep. It's incredibly steep and all it is is a road cut about 150, 200 feet above the riverbed. There's something that's come out of the brush, out of the forest, and it hits the riverbed, and it hits the roadbed. And it is, we determined later, about six and a half feet tall, and it's running. ain't super fast. My first thought is that who the hell isn't playing

in the dark on the National Forest Service Road? My second reaction is that why is this person wearing a fireman's outfit? Why is it wearing a road flaggers outfit? Because I realized later, because what I saw was dark beige, light beige, dark yellow.

It looked like a fireman's outfit. Oh, wow. With, you know, the sleeves coming down, big bulky arms, big bulky legs. It was all bulky. and its actions that I can't that I can't reiterate enough is that when we are set up with this paradigm of what Bigfoot is supposed to look like, what do we think of?

Okay, the way of the film. Along, swinging on, looking back, that's not the way it moved. It moved like the way an insect, moves. You know, it moved so jerkily and so quickly. It was incredibly, incredibly fast. It was in a joggers motion running like a joggers, like a, you know, like a runner's

arms. Yeah. And it was just hauling it. It was just moving so quickly in a scampering motion. It, I was like, what the hell is that? it briefly faced the car I didn't I didn't

well I pulled off the gas but I didn't hit the brakes I was slowly approaching it uh huh it approached the car and I realized later I got back to a place

where I could like sketch this immediately about 11 o'clock that night it hit the center line of the road and then briefly did that and then kept on going. When I did that and looked down,

immediately from a crouching position out of the brush came a second one. From a crashing position to a scanning position. Oh, man. Again, shorter than the first one. Okay. Maybe about that half a foot. Again, dirty yellow beige. And it was hauling it.

They were both crossing the road by the, by the time the first one hit the edge of the gravel, the second one had caught up to it. Bam. At that point, I was about, golly, about 50 feet away from it or so. So I'm about 50 feet away by the time the first one is exiting, and the second one's about to go up. And I saw it very clearly, just incredibly short map.

yellow brown hair kind of like a golden retriever or a lab oh wow no no no hair on its face it was almost like the skin on its face was a deep dark like a like a white person who is like sun tamed too much out on okay sure um heavy brow heavy forehead just cooking it wow right up it bam bam lightning fast up on the hill. Well, I, it was crazy. It was all split second timing. And I, I was very freaked out. Like, what the hell is that? Yeah. And I almost put my foot on the bass and kept going. But I didn't because I realized in my split second thinking that what I just saw, I was going to have to talk with Jeremiah. someone, I was going to have to talk with my Bigfoot friends about this

and I kept on going they'd be like, why the hell didn't stop? So I climbed on the brakes. I just slammed on the brakes and put it in part. It's an automatic. I put it in the park, stood up,

open up the door, stood up. Oh, man. I looked up the hill and all I heard was down behind me the river rushing. I didn't hear any branches breaking. I didn't hear any crackling in the woods. I didn't hear anything.

I had estimated that there was about 7,500 feet by their rate of speed. They were up that hill, maybe 7,500 feet or so. And I didn't hear a damn thing. Oh, my goodness. So what the Bigfoot phenomenon is, I don't know, whether Cascuats can travel through the woods that silently

my tiny little reptilian brain immediately assumed that they were not traveling that they were up there watching me absolutely and all the heat

started their eyes back here and I started to freak out because they're whatever those two things across the road were up there right then watching it. And that's what happened. That's simply incredible.

And what I would have been thinking is this area, more or less, 100 or so year, you know, back in the late 1800s, these miners got totally messed up by something. Are these related creatures? I mean, I don't know if I would have gotten out. of the car, to be honest.

Bobo was convinced that I saw two juveniles across the road. Sorry, two what? Two juveniles. Two juveniles. Two juvenile Sasquatch across the road. Other friends that I've spoken with, now mind you, trying to be a good researcher. I immediately sketched this out. and then about a week and a half, two weeks later, I wrote up an affidavit that I had notarized and I sent it out to friends that I trust to review my affidavit.

Too much in the time, I was kind of like later, like a few days later, thinking about myself as, you know, a historical researcher into the marginal phenomenon. on. What do we hold paramount? What do we hold paramount in historical Bigfoot research? Things that's been reported on that the witness has been willing to sign a notarized affidavit. Sure, at least an affidavit. And I'm like, damn, I'm not going to be just one of those stories. I know what I saw. I don't know what I saw, but I know what I saw. And so I'm going to report on it. I'm going to make an affidavit or I'm going to have it notified. So I sent it out to Bickford Research Community Friends to have it, just to have it, and give me other comments, right? And so since then, other friends have said, well,

you could have very well have seen the descendants of those creatures out of those. there's with the miners because I don't I'm not given the historical reports of them being six to seven feet tall and being you know dirty yellow blonde in reports for hair color and it seems to jive yeah no it totally does so either I saw the originals that they lived 300 years or I saw the descent or I saw the descendants of those people that monkey keeps the pun on monkey with the miners out there in 1880s. So, oh man, there's so many different roads you can go off of this. So having that encounter, I'm curious. Did that affect how you pictured Bigfoot in your mind what you think it is? Or did it leave more questions than you had before? like now I really don't know what we're dealing with here yeah both yeah but both

honestly and because up until November before last you know I'm just like this you know cool guy who researches old stories and tracks down family members of old you know encounters that kind of thing and suddenly it became more real yeah to a degree I think I mentioned this key, mentioned this key in Kentucky. You know, I don't get a lot of contemporary reports. I don't get a lot of concurrent reports. You know, like, you know, Cliff and Melissa, the North American Bigfoot Center, they're the museum.

They get contemporary reports every damn there. You know, I don't. But I have gotten fun. And I remember one in particular, one in particular, it was a fellow who came to a conference just to come to the conference. And he was about 50 restaurant tour in Seattle, and he had a very, very profound experience when he was like 12, 13 years old out in the lantern, outside of Seattle. And he's just kind of like, we're all just outside, you know, having coffee, just chatting outside.

And he's hanging out there, you know, just like on the periphery. And we have a high, hey. And he comes up and joins this and starts talking. And then he starts to tell us his story. One of the greatest researchers in the big research community, he knows Derek Randalls, who heads up the Olympic project. Derek is there. I'm there.

Shane Corson is there. We're all in the circle just hanging around while this guy, tells us his story when he was a young guy. And we're all kind of quiet listening to his story, a pretty incredible story outside of ransom. And Derek asked one of the greatest questions I've ever come across. And Derek was like, well, to this fellow, would you be interested in recording your story,

either on audio or video? And this fellow says, no I just wanted a safe space to come and tell my story that's amazing yeah dude that is a real story

and actually that's a great question from Derek Randall's especially when they say no I don't want to record it I just wanted because he said people back home don't you know I'm not comfortable

telling them my story you guys, I'm comfortable telling my story. Absolutely. So he told the story, and I was like, dang. So what happened to me up at Thompson flat in Curry County? If you want something done right, you do it yourself. That's why you change your own oil. You wouldn't trust your engine to just anybody.

So go with the full synthetic motor oil you can trust. Penn's Oil Ultra Platinum offers engine protection for the lifetime of your vehicle. So do it right with Penn's Oil Ultra Platinum. Stock up now at Walmart. Penzoil. Long may we drive. Limited lubrication warranty for lifetime engine protection. Other conditions apply, including enrollment and receipt requirements. See pens oil.com slash warranty for full details and terms.

On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle grow organic raised bed and garden soil.

It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel...

Uh-huh. And more. More? Huh. I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age. Oh, get ready, girl. Ooh, la la. Man, a few.

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Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth. Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings. Use coupon code iHeart for a $10 telemed appointment at adi.com. Didn't really change my perspective, but it certainly gave me a lot more empathy for listening to these contemporary reports.

I don't, I use this term. like way too loosely because I know that there are a lot of people you know dealing with PTSD in real you know heavy duty situations awful awful traumatic situations but too many of these reporting parties that I speak with who have encountered this phenomenon that we call task watch big fight or a lot of other anomalous you know encounters like my fellow lives just speaking with, it's like there is this looping. There is this PTSD sort of phenomenon where there's a looping of this encounter in their head

where when they find that safe space to talk about it, they cannot not talk about it. Wow. It's like this nice long hair guy with a hat mark. He's going to listen to me. They come up. It's a gang. I've got to tell you something. I've got a safe space.

I wanted to be a safe space. All the bigfoot research community and wants to be that safe space to come up and tell their story. Absolutely. For my personal experience, it's a little bit. It's a little,

I'm not saying it's PTSD, but I don't know why, but for the longest time, I could not give a story out without tears running down my face. Oh, wow. Mark, really?

I have no idea why. Because, you know, when I saw it, it's November, about a week and a half later, it's Thanksgiving. That's when I told my close family is a small Thanksgiving gathering. I got halfway through it, and I don't know why. I'm trying to be always choked up right now. Tears started wearing off on my face.

I didn't feel unsafe. I didn't feel any malice. I didn't feel harmed. I didn't feel anything, but it was just anything bad. It was just, it was so disturbing. I had never, ever, ever seen anything like that before. So disturbing.

I just tears started coming down. Oh, wow. And that was the way of that. Shane Corson called me up after I sent him the report. but dude i have to talk to you and so i talked to him on the phone and yeah sure enough halfway with the fun conversation i started crying and i don't know why i was it's a bizarre bizarre phenomenon it's a bizarre phenomenon when a human infounder says man i got to ask you but first off again that's the wrong answer sure it's a good answer first off so thank you for for sharing it's

amazing story, the true story. Those are, how did, so you said Bobo and Rowdy were right behind you. So what happened when they caught up with you? Just a quick backtrack. Yeah. On the road, just before I saw these two creatures, I used the word creature a lot. Cliff, a good friend, Cliff Berwickman, I was said,

so you're not convinced that you saw two Sasquatch? Because I told them, and I sent him in the report, and, you know, of course he was convinced that I saw two Sasquatch across the road, and it's like, you're not convinced that you saw two Sasquatch, and it's because I don't know what Sasquatch knows. I don't know what the phenomenon is. I don't need to keep beating this to death,

but I'm just the herself of that. Right. People who come to me with the North American would hate, sure. I'll listen to your research. And there's a lot of good research out there. And I'll listen to you. Other people, interdimensional portal being that doesn't have a lot of evidence behind it, but I'm still going to listen to your story.

Right. Did I feel like we as humans, myself in particular, I don't have the tools in my toolbox to come up with any kind of empirical evidence before I'm dead about what the Sasquatch phenomenon truly is. Okay. All I'm doing is just doing the research that I love to do, the historical research and document a crab out of it so that, two, two, three, 20 generations. from now, they'd be like, oh, yeah, Mark Moselle did all this historical research,

and they, you know, they can put that, they can put that in their toolbox. Exactly, yeah. No, that's so cool. What, what I can do,

what you can do, Jeremiah in our lifetime, I don't know what we can do. So all I do, I listen to the stories. I listen to the evidence. I listen. And mind you,

stories are evidence. First-hand accounts, second-out account. Third-hout account. is parole evidence. It is true stories that could be put into the evidence record, right? And so, can you remind me of the question? I got really really excited about.

So, yeah, the question was, how did Bobo and Rowdy react once they caught up with you? Because you said they were, like, in a close proximity-ish, right? Yes. So I slimmed on the brakes and I got out of the car and I looked up the hill and I stood there frozen for a very long time. Kim, Christianson came right behind me maybe about two minutes later or so. And it's getting very, very dark at that point. And I fumbled my way up to Kim's direction. oversized door and was there an accident?

No. Something just crossed the road. And she blasted out of her car. Oh, my God. And so I'm showing her downhill because I was very, very certain about where these two creatures exited the road,

where they entered the road, because that was about two or three hundred feet away, wasn't so sure. So I'm showing her where it was. is a Kim Kim is a great great confidant

and she has watched author she's very very enthusiastic about big foot so you know there's a lot

that's big foot out there in the woods which could be could not be sure and so about three

two or three minutes after Kim pulls up there's Bobo Bobo and Rowdy are separate vehicles. Bubble pulls up and I go to a driver's store and um he goes down the window. Was there an accident? I was like, no. No. Was there a flat tire? And I was like, no. Um, I, bubble said later, you couldn't even talk, dude. Wow. Yeah. And I was like,

something just crossed the road. Wow. And I said, you saw Squatch. And I, you know, did this. As I saw two. And he boils out, he pulls out of the driver's door and he runs back to Rowdy's truck. Roddy's behind him. He's passed by that point. And he goes up to Rowdy's store. And he's like, Bobo said, I wander back up to Kim where the creatures are crossed.

And Bob was like, a squatch just crossed the road. and Roddy's like Who saw it? Kim And Bowie was like No, it was Mark dude And so Rowdy on that trip

With the director of photography And her is like shit And he starts pulling out all the mics and cameras And the good thing about this whole encounter Was that Rowdy comes boiling out of the car Stips a live on me Stips a mic on me

Get the camera Start talking right now. Yeah, that's awesome. And so they ended up getting my reaction probably in the vicinity of about four or five minutes after the two creatures passed away, which I have seen, and I'm not sure if I want to watch it either. But the interesting part about it is that I would take Routy Kelly out. anytime with me.

He was a good, good friend, and he's a badass. He's a great shape, too. He's a little bit older than me, I think. He's a great, great shape. So there's the roadbed, and where the creatures exited was about a, it was a ditch, small ditch off the road, and about, you know, dirt going up about a 45-degree angle, about five-six feet, and then there's just rock. out cropping, a rock ascarpment that goes up, I don't know, I don't know, about 8, 10 feet or so, where it's exposed rock.

And then it continues uphill very steeply from there. So Rowdy's up there with this camera and this bright light, they're also able to hold. Down on the road, we're all lined up, Ken, the knee, Kim, and Bobo, we're all standing on the edge of gravel. We're watching Rowdy and Rowdy is scanning and filming the very top of this rock escarpment and all four of this including Rowdy all see it at the exact same time. He's scanning it, he's scanning along and it's just exposed rock with a little bit of detritus and leaves from the syrup coming down. And scanning along, and sure enough, we see it right where I determine where those creatures exited the road, there is a scrape. I'm going to hold up my hands about that big. It's about six, eight inches wide.

And it's just straight down where the moss and the leaves have a fresh scrape. Oh, no way. down at the very top that's going uphill as if something was trying to gain uphill and a appendage slip, a foot or a hand or whatever you want to call it

about eight inches wide where it slipped and the scrape was just like brand-nail. Oh my goodness. It just happened and then went out. The next day, about two in the afternoon, Bobo and Rowdy and I, after some filming at a newspaper, office and went back up there and we made her way up above the rock up above the rock a start

and got up in the trees up in the woods and we found some more questions nothing is going to ask you nothing left to cast uh rowdy did find one that could have been toes maybe not but again nothing nothing could cast but there was something mucking around up there and there's messing around up there, elk, deer, whatever. But there were some impressions up there. And then the following May, when I last May, when they filmed up there, we had some weird noises, some weird encounters up there as well. In the same area, you had some animal.

Yeah, absolutely. Actually, the odd thing is, is like right where Kim had parked the car, just before I saw these creatures, where she had parked her car into a lake base, them down below where she had, she and a partner at the time were basically escorted out about around of something. And we had, we, during that time in May, we had knox and woods and someone crossing the road and some growls up there.

So there's heavy activity. The way thing, Jeremiah, is that this whole Thompson Flat Monster project has basically sent me into from being just the historical physical evidence research guy into something's going on up there on the south fourth of six this river and um i'm coming there like going into the concurrent research guy because something's going on at there oh my goodness did you guys get uh did you have an audio recorder going at that time you did you did you capture stuff Yes. Oh, no way.

Yeah. Oh, wow. Pretty fun. This is last May. For the second trip up there, down this logging road, this logging road that overlips the lake. Lake.

If you want something done right, you do it yourself. That's why you change your own oil. You wouldn't trust your engine to just anybody. So go with the full synthetic motor oil you can trust. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum offers engine protection for the lifetime of your vehicle. So do it right with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. Stock up now at Walmart. Penzoil. Long may we drive.

Limited lubrication warranty for lifetime engine protection. Other conditions apply, including enrollment and receipt requirements. See penshoel.com slash warranty for full details and terms. On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients.

Fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed in garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. Let's go, girls. You know what I love about, Addie? Everything? Well, yeah, but it's as little as 20 bucks a month. Ooh, well, the little pink pill has always been a pretty, big deal. A really big deal. I'd call that a good investment. Che-chang.

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alcohol close to your dose. if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy, or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, dry mouth. Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings. Eligible patients only, restrictions apply.

I'm trying to do this with my hands. Lake and a ridge coming up from the lake and another ridge coming up from the lake up to the logging road up above. Kim had been down there on a very, very long hiking trip many years ago, and it had something escorting her and her partner along the hiking trail. They made camp, and they get rocks thrown down onto their camp, and a bunch of screaming, yelling, and it's like, let's get the hell out of there, and they got the hell out of there. So we decided to go check it out in the middle of the night, of all places, all times. so it's like midnight.

And we're down there. About midnight, it's dark. Mist and fog are starting to roll in. Pretty darn hard. And way down there, down to the lake, maybe about a thousand feet down, Kim and I are like, who's talking down there?

We cannot make out any words, but we can hear male voices once in a great while talking. Okay. But two male voices talking down there at the lake. So we go down in the woods and we listen

three or four minutes later it sounds like two men are having like a wild conversation, not mad, but it sounds like two men talking down there a thousand feet downhill down by the lake. What is that? So we go back up to the road

and we tell everyone about it. There's about five six, seven hours up there on the road. Down on one ridge, there's a distinctive knock. Wow. So we go down there. We go down the road, down to where the ridge intersects the road. About 600 feet up the road where the other ridge intercepts the road.

Somewhere over there. So we all went over there. Listen, down on the other ridge, knock. We all run down there. And this goes on with a whoop on one ridge and I knock on the other ridge. This goes on for like 45 minutes an hour. No way. Yeah, this goes on and on and on and on.

Oh, my goodness. At like five minute intervals. And I don't know a lot about. you know, contemporary reports or contemporary task clutch phenomenon, but everyone, especially above us, like, you're messing with this. Oh, totally. You know, older enough because, you know, just go tell these humans going back, all these human humans going back and forth, you know, it must have been a riot.

So, I have a thermal for a while. And I'm looking up the road, I'm looking up the road, I'm looking up the road with this thermal. Nothing. Okay, after 20 minutes, I'm like, I'm tired of looking through this monocular thermal. Okay. Turn around. Let's go down the road.

And Sam, kitchen, comes looking at it down to me. Larry, who is with us. Larry just heard something cross the road. Wow. And three steps and go up the hill from the, the lower elevation of the lake, cross the road, go up the hill behind us in three steps. So I'm not there with my thermal. I don't look there with my thermal.

I don't see anything at all. Everyone's back down behind me on the road. And we swear, and this is caught on audio, that up above, just only about 20, 25 feet up above the road on a little ledge, there was this big thing. Wow. Been in a blush rush at something shooting back up the hill after the growl. And apparently this is all caught on audio

until the film comes up. Dude, that's nuts, man. It's so good. The weird thing is that I only hope that this is caught on film to get on stand in there with a numb skull out there trying to do Bigfoot research at one in the morning. I don't know what I'm doing.

and then we all have you know we don't have headlights we don't have headlamps it's all just green light I don't have any lights on or anything and out of the dark out of the fog

here comes Bobo and it comes right up to me in the fog and it's like they're here oh my goodness yes my goosebumps I'm like crap dude if anyone

know they're here. They're here, man. That's so awesome, dude. I hope that's... Get me out. Someday, man, stuff, I just hope I can see stuff like that someday.

I mean, that just sounds like amazing footage and like, who knows, fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Yeah, this whole film project, I got to tell you, I was, again, I'm still amazed about my whole. life. Yeah. I shouldn't be talking to Jeremiah right now.

All the big important people should be talking to Jeremiah. But I thought You are the big important person, for sure. I got involved with this whole, you know, Ike Canyon gig,

and it's kind of like my, you know, namesake or whatever. I got involved at a tough and flat project, I think initially in 2015, 2016 or so.

And so from what I understand, talking with Bobes is that after finding Bigfoot, you know, is dissolved. Bobo is moving on to feature-link documentary projects. Sure. And one of the first ones that he picked, which is very nice with him, with the Thompson Flat Monster project.

And that's what kind of pushed me into this long-distance project and to actually making it happen. And from everything that we picked up in the field, the historical stuff that we found, the physical evidence that we found early Thompson fat monster encounters, this film is going to be just a bomber. I'm excited. It needs to come out. Dude.

Okay. So before we're getting, you were right. The two hours is going to go. Right. It's 930, man. We've got to go. So you need, you've got to get one of those like cameras for your car, especially if you ever go back there. You've got to have that set up.

And who knows, you could have another encounter in that area. But yeah. Yeah. It's always the case. I've had vocalizations at the 8th Canyon. And our good friend David Ellis, the first thing he said is, did you have a recorder? I guess no. and David said, of course not.

Of course not. You don't have it when it happens. Talk to Shane, talk to any of those guys, Chris Spencer, and be like, tell me the task cam I need to get and spend,

can you spend 30 minutes with me about, like he spent 30 minutes with me on how to use it and it was invaluable. Like Chris Spencer is the nicest dude. Chris gave me a lowdown on a driver audio recorder. Good, good. with the ammo box and everything for $25.

It's like, yes. I'm deploying that at the Thompson flat next time I go. Oh, no way. Oh, no, I am for sure. Yes, that's awesome, dude. And also, I'm going up to 8th Canyon in July, and I'm going to be doing the same time. Yes, Mark. That's amazing.

Dude, thank you so much for spending a few hours of your night, just chatting about Bigfoot and sharing your story. And this has been such an amazing time. Before you go, though, I want to make sure that you have the opportunity. You do have a pamphlet out. Is there anything that you want people to follow to keep up to date, or how can they purchase your Ape Canyon pamphlet, things like that? Just calling Jeremiah, I'm becoming an adult in the books of the research community. I am getting a website that I cannot vote yet.

Okay. Because I haven't bought it, but I'm about to, and maybe you can help me out like that. I'm getting a website. Actually, when you come to conferences, believe it or not, I'm going to have a booth where you can come and talk to me and see some really cool stuff, you know? So I'm at Squatch Fest third week in January in Tulsa Lime. you and I'm again in Forks, Washington on Memorial Day. Oh, yeah. So you can check me out there.

Also, yes, I do have my Mountain Devil booklet. I also am producing this very second, my Thompson Flat Monster book as well. So you can check out, and I'll send you a rush copies during my own, the Thompson Flat one as well. Please check that. Nice. That's awesome. But mainly, you can just face it. Look at Mark Mersell on Facebook.

Thankfully, it's a very unique name, so there's not a lot of, it's very unique. It's easy to find you, so he's out there and you can try it. Yeah, exactly. Thank you, Mark, for coming on. Always a pleasure in chatting with you and have a great night, friend. Thanks, Jeremiah. Great time. Thank you for listening to Bigfoot Society.

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