Bigfoot Society - Matt Pruitt and the Phenomenal Sasquatch

Episode Date: September 18, 2023

BIGFOOT SOCIETY - PLEASE LIKE, COMMENT AND SUBSCRIBE. IT DOESN'T COST A THING AND IT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD!Matt Pruitt has dedicated nearly two decades to investigating the sasquatch phenomenon. He has gained extensive knowledge of the topic through a combination of conceptual analysis and practical fieldwork. As an engaging public speaker, he has been invited to share his insights on various media outlets and platforms. In 2023, he published The Phenomenal Sasquatch: Seeking the Natural Origins of a Cultural Icon, a book that demonstrates his dedication to unraveling the truth behind this intriguing mystery. Matt is also the producer and editor of the podcast Bigfoot & Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Resources:Website: https://mattpruittonline.comBook (Amazon affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3t0y2vhAutographed Copies: https://northamericanbigfootcenter.square.site/product/book-phenomenal-sasquatch-autographed-by-author-matt-pruitt/1340?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=5WATCH THE IOWA EPISODE IN THE “SASQUATCH: A SEARCH FOR SABE” DOCUMENTARY SERIES BY TATE HIERONYMUS // FIND OUT ALL ABOUT MY FIRST BIGFOOT ENCOUNTERS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo8O4rvywzECall the Bigfoot Society BIGFOOT ENCOUNTER hotline! Have you seen a Sasquatch and would like to get what happened “off your chest” but don’t have time for an interview? NOW YOU CAN DO IT ON YOUR TIME AND SHARE IT WITH THE WORLD! Share it here - https://www.speakpipe.com/bigfootsocietyTo unlock more bonus content and much more, become a supporting member of Bigfoot Society by joining the Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyBecome a Youtube Channel member here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7Q/joinSupport Bigfoot Society one time by buying me a coffee here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/bigfootsocietyTo pick up a Bigfoot Society shirt, stickers and more, check out our merch by heading on over to https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietySend me a voice message to potentially be used for the show by calling 515-809-0165 Here’s a fun prompt - “Hey, my name’s [your name] and you’re listening to the Bigfoot Society podcast!”If you’d like to send me fan mail, Bigfoot related products to check out or written out Bigfoot encounters then you reach me at the following address: Bigfoot Society 125 E 1st St. #233 Earlham, IA 50072Join our private Facebook group "Bigfoot Sasquatch Encounters" for a chance to connect with others who have had similar experiences. Follow the directions to ensure your entry is accepted.https://www.facebook.com/groups/5762233820540793/?ref=share_group_linkTune in to our YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7Q) for new episodes of Bigfoot Society, and visit our website (www.bigfootsocietypodcast.com) for all the links mentioned above and more.Don't miss out on the Bigfoot action! —— Affiliate links mean I earn a commission from qualifying purchases. This helps support my channel at no additional cost to you.—— MY GEAR ——My Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3L1q8XYMy Podcast Mic: https://amzn.to/3AlYwb9My Computer: https://amzn.to/40CCjQyMy Headphones: https://amzn.to/40A8gcrMy Webcam: https://amzn.to/3NqfddhThe best Bigfoot book: https://amzn.to/41x8IcNLose the weight along with me on Noom. Get 20% off your subscription with link below. (Consult your doctor first) https://noom.com/r/GdkaWNddL?1251Join Whatnot and pick up some sweet video games and vintage shirts. Use my link below and we both get $10 credit after you place your first order. https://whatnot.com/invite/bigfootsocietyLearn more and up your creative game with Skillshare. Use my link and get a $50 gift card. https://share.skillshare.com/bigfootsocietyIf you want an amazing website like Bigfoot Society has that is extremely easy to set up and connects to your podcast in an incredible way then check out Podpage. https://www.podpage.com/?via=jeremiah (Use this affiliate link and you help out Bigfoot Society)

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And I'm Jeremiah Byron Every week I talk to individuals Who have experienced Sasquatch In some way or another So you won't want to miss an episode Make sure you're subscribed on the platform That you're listening to And share this episode with a friend

Does not cost a thing And it helps the show continue to grow If you'd like to hear Bigfoot Society episodes early and ad-free, you can do so by becoming a Patreon supporter or a YouTube channel member. Links to those are in the show notes. And Bigfoot Society, I've taken far too much of your time so far. So let's get on with the show. All right, Bigfoot Society, I've got the privilege of talking to, well, old friend Matt Pruitt had him on the podcast before. How's it going tonight, Matt?

Very good. Thanks for having me back. Had a blast the first time. It was a good time. Yeah, listeners, if you haven't heard the first Matt Pruitt episode, you want to go back and listen to that, especially if you're fans of the podcast, Bigfoot and Beyond. You know, Matt is the producer there. So there's a few questions over on that episode. So you definitely want to hit that.

But let's talk about, you know, if listeners don't know who Matt is, I consider personally Matt to be one of the current. great, bear with me, I know. Current great minds in Bigfoot research. Just being honest, like, seriously. A very humble individual, I've had the pleasure of talking to him in person

at Cryptid Khan in Kentucky last year. Just very, very cool. He has over 20 years, I believe, of Bigfoot research. And he has been just involved with so many things. Is there anything else that we should be thrown in there, Matt, to make sure the listeners know what they are getting into tonight? No, I mean, there's very generous of you to say, by the way. So I'll try to earn that and live up to that.

But no, I've been doing it yet. It's been about I started interviewing witnesses and gathering local information in 2002 and purchasing books and reading everything I get my hands on and finding documentaries, you know, VHS back in those days and then DVDs and things like that. So really that's about when it started and then it's just grown from there from where I grew up in Northeast Georgia. You know, I've told the story a number of times, so I won't belabor the point here. But I had an experience when I was 17 back in the 1999, back in the 1900s. So, but I didn't really reconcile that with Sasquatch-related information until about 2001, 2002.

And then 2002 started looking for information and trying to get to the bottom of it. And here we are all these years later. trying to get to the bottom of it, you know, many states and many years later and worn a lot of hats with a lot of different Sasquatch related projects in between and try to continue to do so. It's incredible. And, you know, so listeners, I would say you probably have spent hundreds of hours out in the field. I mean, let's just talk about BFRO expeditions alone. I want to say at least 20 you have listed on your website all over the U.S., which is certain. Certainly. phenomenal. Yeah, I started attending those. The first one I went to was in the Uare's in May of 2007. And that was the first time I'd met Matt Moneymaker and a number of other people. I started meeting local southeastern BFRO investigators in 2006 and then was invited to that expedition. And so I attended a number around the country. And then when Matt started having BFRO investigators become expedition organizers, I did that for a number of years from 2008 to 2013, you know, in the same.

southeast and then the Pacific Northwest and then around like the U.S. Interior Highlands like Oklahoma, Arkansas and places in between. But I, you know, I've always been really interested in the field. I mean, I think a good researcher should be equal parts sort of armchair research and field research from the sort of like propositional, you know, to the participatory, as they say. So, and it's just great fun. And so I really love being in the field. I'm out as much as I can be. I can't tell you how many hundreds of days and nights I've spent and I've not seen a Sasquatch yet.

Had some interesting experiences, but no really concrete visual yet. But yeah, one of the more interesting things from those years of being in the BFR was getting to go around the country and meet so many people. And I met a lot of my best friends through that process, too. You know, a lot of the people that would, that I either met on other people's expeditions or that signed up for mine, some of those, like I'm still in contact with on a near daily basis. and have been close friends with for over decades. So really fun, rewarding experiences.

You definitely have a lot of connections with researchers for sure. I just had a gentleman on. I believe his name was Jeff Carpenter. And he had great words to say about you. I believe he said that you were kind of the one that got him into all this. Yeah, Jeff is a sweetheart and a very funny person. He's in Western North Carolina, very close to where I grew up in North Georgia, not terribly far away.

And so I forget how we started communicating. I was living in a different state at that time. I might have still been living in Washington State when he first emailed me. And then we finally met, he came on an expedition that I led. And then we've spent a whole lot of time together. And yeah, I'll have to go listen to that episode. I didn't realize you'd had him on yet. So that's pretty cool.

He's a sweetheart of a guy and very funny, great out in the field. But man, he always makes me smile and makes me laugh. He's got a good heart. It's funny. And, yeah, listeners, you want to listen to that episode. If you haven't yet, a story of how we saw Bigfoot while he was listening to, I believe, ACDC. So pretty cool, pretty cool story. But has, Matt, has there been a time when you've been out in the field researching Bigfoot where, you know, sometimes I ask this question where things just got a little bit too intense, maybe too quickly for? for what you were expecting. I guess it really just depends.

You intense encounters with something unknown, and then I've had some really intense encounters with humans. So I've had some intense encounters out there, just depending on the sort of creature. You know, luckily I haven't had too many frightening animal encounters. I've had loads and loads of black bear encounters, but none of those were, you know, bluff charges or anything like that. Although we did have a fairly close call last year,

with a black bear that was charging. It was a female that was charging away a male. And when the male ran off, she turned and looked right at us. And I thought, we're next. We better just start moving away. But, I mean, my first experience was very much of that pain, but we didn't know what we were dealing with. And I guess to some degree, I still don't,

because we didn't see the things. But, I mean, it was very intimidating. It was at night, very thick vegetation. It was summertime in northeast Georgia. And again, that was in 1999. but, you know, loud branches breaking and then the sound of them being torn off the trees and then hit against the trees. And so it was just strange to us because we didn't, we couldn't really reconcile it with like bears or deer or some known animal and they didn't seem to be people. And that, you know, all culminated.

And we did abandon our camp. We ran back to the vehicles and drove back to my mom's house and came back for our tents and cool as the next day. But then once I started going out in the field, like intentionally trying to eliciting. or approaches or responses. There's a few that come to mind. Maybe not as intense for me because I was so obsessed with trying to like make contact and especially to have a siding, you know. I do think that that would be, it's a much needed thing for me at this point, you know,

because I've tried so hard for so long. And so I always feel like, you know, I might be like 99.9% certain that there exists, you know, or 99 point, an infinite number of nines, but I think seeing one would make it 100% for sure. There was one particular time in, must have been 2006. And I have to say, too, a few of these encounters, they share something in common, which is dumb luck. You know, because so many sightings and encounters are just a total, they're serendipitous, you know. And for the vast majority of witnesses, it just, it just happened. you know, it wasn't something intentional.

Now, people have had sightings in the act of intentionally pursuing Sasquatches, but those are more rare. Like, if you look at most sightings there, they're just serendipitous, random, you know, right place, right time. And so I was living in the Atlanta area, but still doing field research mostly in North Georgia. And I'd driven up to visit friends and family. And some friends of ours,

I had a friend who would accompany me in the field quite often. And two other friends that were totally skeptical. like, oh, there's no such thing. And I can't believe you waste your time on this. And these two were not particularly, like, they didn't camp. They didn't hike. They weren't really outdoors people. They were a couple of grades younger than us in school, although by 2006, we were out of school.

But they were mostly like glued to the TV and video games and things like that. And so I just thought, okay, well, we'll just put them in the car. I'll take him out in the heart of darkness. They'll get the crap scared out of them just from being in the woods in the dark. And it'll be great fun, you know. And so I had a headlamp that I borrowed from someone and a baseball bat to make knocks with, you know. I was like, all right, come on. I'll kind of show you what we do.

And we drove up sort of near the headwaters of the Chattahoochee River. It's where we filmed a lot of the night stuff during that premiere episode of Finding Bigfoot years later. And we went out there and parked the vehicle and walked up to a little sort of, it's not really an overlook, but it kind of sort of is because the terrain drops. down and there's a creek down below and then another feeder creek down the other side, and then essentially a big hill and a slope across this Forest Service Road. And so I just thought it was the very first stop of the night. And again, there was no plans to even go out. It was just like, oh, these guys are going to be skeptical.

Let's take him out and see if they get spooked by the darkness. You know, first stop, we park. I'm like, all right, we're going to get out. We're going to walk up very quietly. Don't make any noise. And we walk up to this point, and there's this large tree by the road. You know Micah Hanks? Absolutely, yeah.

I just took Micah to this spot summer before last to show them all this. Had this baseball bat in the dark, didn't even turn on the headlamp, you know, knocked this tree. And by the time I like crossed my arms with the bat in hand, from the creek bottom came this big bellowing moan howl, you know, the classic, and as that was going on, a second one moaned from this slope. and there sounds overlap. And it was just absolutely mind-blowing

because we had just somehow stumbled into getting between two somethings that made a howling response to a knock. It wasn't like a knock for a knock or wasn't like a howl or something like that. And I was just flabbergasted, you know, because I'd been spending all this time for the last few years with really not much of anything happening ever. And now this was happening. And then we could hear this sort of like,

heavy tromping, like marching. Oh, and then it got dead quiet. And we're just standing there in the dark, frozen. And one of the guys is like, what happened? Are they gone? What was that? And I was like, what do you think that was? Like, that's, I told you, like, this is why we're here.

Yeah, why are we here? And he's like, why is it so quiet? And I was like, I don't think they left. I think they can see us. Like, as if they, you know, Bill, is that you kind of a thing? And then they come together and then they see there's four humans, just standing in this road in the dark. And then there was a big loud knock from the down creek side.

And the other two guys started to get very scared and wanted to leave. And I was like, well, we can't leave. We can't leave. We just need to go back to the vehicle if you're feeling scared, but we can't leave. But we will, would that be okay? They're like, yeah, yeah. So we go back to the vehicle, get in the vehicle, roll down the windows, and we're just sitting there listening, you know,

and it's just pitch black darkness and then heard. the classic sound, something coming through the foliage and the leaves and thud, and then I turn on the daytime running lights on this vehicle, and there's this, you know, decent-sized rock in the road with the Forest Service dust sort of off the Forest Service road coming up around it. It's like, okay, I think that was just thrown up here. But still, like, we're not seeing anything. You know, it's not like they're screaming and thrashing vegetation.

There's still just these little things happening. And after a while, it got really quiet. and nothing happened. And I thought, okay, now they're gone. It's over. Because, you know, when you're sitting there in the dark for five minutes, it feels like 20 minutes, you know, there's nothing happening. You're listening.

And so we started to drive away and thought we heard like a whoop-like sound down that down creek side, but it's hard to tell, like I had the vehicle on and we're moving, you know. So as soon as we heard that, I was like, did you hear that? My friend in the passenger seat said, yeah, I heard that. So I put it in park, killed it, you know, turned it off. It was like listening, listening. I said, make that sound back at it.

So my buddy leaned out the window and whooped and we listened for a few minutes and nothing happened. I was like, okay, we probably didn't even hear something like maybe it's just really over now. And we cranked the car and the lights turned on. And from the uphill side was this huge, gnarly, brutal, very high-pitched scream. I couldn't even emulate it, you know, just, but brief and duration, like a, but just very loud, very close. And I distinctly remember the feeling. It felt like my whole face just turned white hot like you put it over at campfire. All the nerve endings is just terrified, you know, it's just terrified, you know, but excited.

And the person behind me, the friend that was sitting behind me, started punching the headrest of my seat and say, go, go, go, go, go, go. And I was like, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up. And I turned the car off. And I'm like, if we shut up, be quiet. Like if we listen, we might hear it again. And he started crying. And he said, I will never forget the sound of this. He said, I don't ever want to hear that sound again in my whole life.

And I was like, okay, we'll go. So I turned on the lights and I could see up to slope there was this tree with sort of an odd curvature in it. And I was like, okay, that's a very noticeable looking tree. It was somewhere in that vicinity. I can come back here tomorrow, go to that tree and start working up to them out and see if there's any traffic. or something like that. We'll be back with more Bigfoot Society after these words from our sponsors.

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They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a Reese's. Like this commercial break. Did you need 15 seconds away from music or 15 seconds to eat or Reese's? Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a Reese's. And he wouldn't go back with me the next day. He was like, I'm not going back there. I'm not going back there at all. And then in subsequent conversations, because he was a family friend, at one point, his mother had said to me,

she was like, that really wasn't funny what you did to him. And I was like, I did not do anything. And she was like, well, no, he was terrified. He was absolutely terrified. And they owned a lot of property in North Georgia. And he had told me years later, he's like, oh, I don't even camp on my own property after that. And then his father told me in 2008, he was like, you know, he told me about that night.

And he seemed pretty rattled. And I was like, oh, he was. Like, we all were. So that was probably the most intense thing. But there's two other sort of encounters that I've had or experiences, let's say, over the years, another one in 2008 in North Georgia, one in 2010. And on the east side of the Cascades in Washington, same thing. Just random like, oh, let's go check this place out. Didn't plan to do it.

Just, oh, let's go see what's back here. And something happened. Like, we stumbled into right place, right time. Just there's no proxy for luck. You know, when you're dealing with an animal with a very large home range that's very mobile in it, it could be anywhere within that range. Even if you knew exactly where the boundaries of its range were, you're still going to rely on luck to some degree to be in the same exact time and place as it within that range.

And so you get out there enough and sometimes it happens. Oh, that's wild. And when you took Mike out there, anything happened or not? No, we went out there for a few days and nights and I took him and Jeff came as well. Jeff, does Sasquatch tracks. Yeah, yeah. And it was beautiful. And Jeff Carpenter was there too. So to tell you a funny story, Jeff Carpenter just bought this new thermal imager. And I took those guys on a night hike.

And we went really far out up this. There's a road that's almost always gated. nearly permanently gated, but occasionally they'll open it during certain hunting seasons. And there are some wildlife planting fields back there that they might cut and re-plant every few years. So it's a great place. We see a lot of deer and other animals hanging out back there. But some of them are, you know, three miles back beyond this gate. So I was like, oh, let's, let's park at this gate and go walk back here. And Jeff's got his thermal imager and we'll see if there's wildlife around. And we'd gone out there and listened and weren't seeing much

and went further and further back to this smaller field. And I didn't have the night. The thermal unit, Jeff did. And so I was walking ahead. And he was like, oh, hey, there's a deer laying down in that field. And I was looking in this field. It was fairly moonlit. And I was like, oh, yeah, I can kind of see the shape of something.

And he's like, yeah, that deer's just laying there. It doesn't seem to be too concerned with you. And I was like, oh, well, I can kind of see what I think. Let me get closer and I get closer and closer. And he's like, dude, you're standing right in front of it. it's bedded down and I couldn't see it. And so I was like, come, give me that thermal man. And so he brings it over and I look and it's a giant wild hog.

Oh, like 20, 15, 20 feet from it, something like that. I'm like, I think it must be full because it really was not concerned at all. And so finally like I'd shine a big bright light at it and it just got up and slowly saunter. It was not in a hurry. Oh, wow. Maybe it just gorged itself or something and was very lethargic. But I was like, Jeff, man, you almost have a. Well, now, Jeff didn't make me do it.

But I was like, that was a hog, man. That wasn't a deer. I almost walked right up on that thing. So that was quite the adventure. That was the only wildlife we saw that whole weekend pretty much. Man, crazy story, dude. Oh, I love it. And it's those, it's those crazy sound experiences.

It's like you never have a sound recorder on you because you're just, you know, it's just off the cuff. Oh, yeah. Well, again, that was 2006. and so I wasn't in the BFRO. The only other, I'd only at that point met like one other Sasquatch researcher who was in basically like Middle Georgia or North Middle Georgia essentially. So south of Atlanta.

And so we didn't get together as frequently because we were pretty far apart in terms of, you know, he lived several hours away from North Georgia. And so field research for me was me either by myself or convincing my friends to go on a camping trip while I did this thing and they would just sort of be there, you know, because they weren't really a couple of friends got interested in it, but for the most part, they were like, oh yeah, we'll go camping and hike around and look around, but it was really just me sort of on my own. But then my one friend who I'm still close friends with to this day, who was there, he became, you know, much more convinced after that night when those moaning house and all that stuff.

That's wild, dude. Oh, man, thank you for sharing. Those are, that's some, uh, that's some cool stuff. Of course, as listeners, my guess, I am, I have brought Matt on to discuss his book, The Phenomenal Sasquatch, which was an incredible segue. I know listeners were all about that. This book is really good, Matt. Like, it's super, I wasn't expecting it to be extremely hard hitting, but like it really, you do not pull any punches in this book. And it is, you did a really good job. So fantastic work. I appreciate that very, very much.

And thank you for reading it. It means the world that you would give it a chance and support it and give it a read. So thank you very much. Oh, yeah. Definitely one that you want to have like on your bookshelf, you know. There's maybe some in the Kindle, maybe both. Maybe you could get Kindle too, but definitely on the bookshelf. I was really curious when I was reading it.

what was the was there motivation you know behind writing this book or like what what push do you like okay i need to get my take on on what's going on um out into the world through this book yeah well i've been very fortunate enough over the years to have been asked that you know I started doing interviews for internet radio and then podcasts and terrestrial radio media things like that. I started speaking publicly about the subject in 2007. So not only through that, but, you know, personal correspondence and outreach and then being on BFRO expeditions or leading BFRO expeditions, you know, you just communicate with so many people. And it was very fortunate enough to hear a lot of people say, oh, you should write a book, you should write a book. But I sort of really lived in that

world of dialogue. I just find it's more productive. You know, writing can be really tedious. And, you know, when you're speaking to someone, you have the ability to, to make, you know, various analogies based on who your audience is. So, you know, if you're trying to explain a concept to a room full of biologists, let's say, you know, you can use certain terms or examples or, or analogies. And if I'm speaking to a room full of my musician friends, I've got to use some like different terminology and different analogies to try to make these things connect or seemingly disparate ideas connect. And so writing can be challenging because it's like, no, you have to say it one way for all audiences forever. That's it. You don't get to say, well, hey, no, look at it from this

perspective or okay, how about this? You know, so it was always an interesting proposition, but I just really loved being in these kind of situations where we can talk dynamically or even, you know, speaking in public to audiences, it's still kind of a conversation because you're watching people's reaction and body language and trying to, you know, feed off the crowd and like, okay, where did I, okay, maybe I lost someone. Let me explain that a little bit more for that person. But it was to the point where I thought, well, you know, I've been.

very much a a supporter or like support personnel or even like when I worked on Finding Bigfoot was like Fixer, you know, and I really loved doing that stuff.

Some of my favorite experiences in bands was where I was like the side person, you know, playing with a favorite band of mine, you know, but then it came time like, well, what would I want to make

as my sort of statement devoid of any other projects or anything like that? And so I thought, well, I would like to write a book that would hopefully aim high, not just another collection of stories or, you know, because it's not about me. It's not my story by any stretch. And so I thought, well, when I got into

the subject, you know, it took me a while to accumulate so many books that I really learned a lot from or that I considered to be like essential or required. And then some of those hadn't even been written yet, you know, because then later there was Meldroner's book and then later Bendernerigle's second book, you know, Discovery of the Sasquatch. And so when people would say, like, well, what should I read? It's like, well, here at least these five and then maybe these 10, and you'll get a pretty good education. And I thought, well, maybe I could write the sort of book that, like, if you only ever read one, this would give you a really thorough education and a comprehensive overview of the entirety of the phenomenon, let's say, the subject itself.

And then if you wanted to do deeper dives into certain elements, if you wanted to learn more about inferred foot morphology or anatomy, read Krantz, read Meldrum. If you want to read a collection of eyewitness testimonies, go read John Green. You know, so you could have this as a jumping off point, but at least it would be what I was trying to do is like the single most comprehensive work that like I wish that I had when I first started. But also expand and develop it beyond. I didn't want it to be like a rehash of things that had been said before, but to push the conversation and explore concepts that hadn't really been explored before, make connections that I hadn't seen or heard other people make before.

And so it would hopefully appeal to people who were devoted students of the subject, but also if someone was brand new, they would get a bottom up education of like, we're going to build the whole foundation all the way up to the top floor thus far, and you'll have a good understanding from this single work. So I don't know if I achieved it, but that's what I was trying to do at least, you know. No, I would say you definitely did.

It's, oh, man, it's, it's, it's really, really well put together. Because I remember I was like halfway through. I was like, man, this is really good. It probably couldn't get any better. And it's like, oh, man, now it's getting better. Like, wow, this is wild. But it's definitely, it's not just focused on, on Bigfoot itself. It's, it makes the reader take a step back.

and well maybe I'm just speaking from how it affected me but it's like it made me take a step back and be like oh okay so what is my motivation myself in pursuing this actual subject like how do I fit into this is it a you know and it really be be warned it makes you really kind of get deep a little bit at certain parts which is good I think that's it's good that the reader take a few minutes to think about, you know, what is, what is my part in this, this Bigfoot subject? And why am I so intensely motivated in figuring out, trying to figure out what's going on here, you know, do I have the right motivation?

It's just, man, it's a very cool. So, hats off to you for that. I appreciate that a lot, that resonated with you. Because, of course, like most people are, are, they get, they want to talk about bits of evidence or, you know, statistical analyses of reports, you know, and et cetera, et cetera. But those are the points that, like, really mattered the most to me is because they are all kind of self-examinations, too. And as you know, the Sasquatch community, you know, if that's really a thing, you know, there's a million little sub-communities. Oh, there are. trying to house under the Bigfoot community, but it's not quite communal.

No. But I think people very often, you know, they want to see themselves reflected. And so, you know, I've met plenty of people who, because I, again, I try to wear a lot of hats. And a lot of that's just by accident, you know, it just so happened that, you know, I grew up playing music and had a lot of experience recording and engineering and things like that. and did the Bigfoot thing. And so when Cliff and Bub were like, hey, we should do a podcast. Could you produce it and edit it and engine it? Do the musical bumpers like, oh, yeah, sure.

Like it wasn't like I set out to be like, oh, I want to make a podcast, you know, it was just, oh, I'm a Bigfoot researcher or Sasquatch, you know, contender who has the know how and, you know, obviously friendship with those guys. But I can't tell you how many people I've met that are like, oh, those podcasters. It's like, well, you know. Don't get me started, Matt. Well, they want to. They want to differentiate between those things. Or, you know, I'll meet people that'll say, you know,

oh, what you should do is, you know, invest in these long-term audio recorders that record for months at a time and then get this analyzing software and go through it. And it's like, that's not me. That's not what I'm interested in. I like being in the field and I like carrying a camera and trying to get photographs and, you know, exploring and looking for things or being sort of posted up and trying to conduct myself like a wildlife photographer. I wouldn't go around telling people like, what you need to do is, you know, put on snake boots and camo in a gilly suit and get this DSLR camera and post up for eight hours. Don't move. Don't cough.

Don't breathe. You know, don't all this kind of stuff. And so, but people want to impose their values on other people. And so it's like, you know, or you'll hear people say things like, oh, well, stories are just stories. They're not worth anything. It's like, well, to some people, they're worth everything. And so there's a niche for everyone. And, you know, I'm a huge fan of podcasts.

You know, I consume a lot of them across a number of different subjects, you know, not just the Sasquatch thing, but a whole host of different subjects. I love stories about, you know, unrelated subjects. And we're all storytelling, story listening creatures, you know. And so stories are integral to the human experience. And so, you know, if someone wants to hear Sasquatch stories, let them hear them. And if someone wants to be a collector or aggregator or sort of like the discerning ear that says, like, okay, well, I'll be the proxy for the audience.

I think the audience should hear this story. Let me interview this person in prison. There's a role for everyone. And they're all useful and needed. And so it does frustrate me to see people imposing, you know, oh, you should be flying drones or you should be putting up audio equipment or you should be doing this or whatever the case may be, you know. We'll be back with more Bigfoot Society after these words from our sponsors. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending.

Miracle grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same. Looks like Bad Dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed?

Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a higher than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer.

Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time. More results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves. at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast.

Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a recess. Like this commercial break. Did you need 15 seconds away from music? Or 15 seconds to eat or Reese's?

Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a recesses. It's like let people do what they, enjoy doing, leave them the hell alone. And if you like what they do, support them. It's that simple. You know. It really is that. That's incredible. Like, yeah. So, hmm, I get that. I get it, man. Well, it's a tough thing because, and I see it in myself too, because I don't go around, you know, I don't like comment on things that I love. You know, I listen to like my favorite music or I watch amazing live performances on YouTube and or like I listen to podcasts.

You know what I mean? And absolutely love it. And then move on to the next thing. And so I think people don't post positive comments very often. And it just, it doesn't always cross people's minds. But of course, you know, if someone has a gripe or something negative to say they have no qualms about it, like this, I don't like this. I don't like that.

And so I think it's easy for people in the online space who are. podcasters or, you know, if they have YouTube channels, whatever the case may be, to disproportionately see like people's negative takes and not realize like, well, hey, man, you got 30,000 downloads in that episode. Like three people said something negative. So maybe you do the math and think, well, probably more people liked it than not. They're just living busy lives and they're not going to stop. Hey, love the episode.

Keep up the great work. And some people do take the time to do that. But I reflect on my own experience and I'm like, man, I don't go around leaving positive. I don't leave any, I don't leave negative comments either because I just don't think they're helpful. But I should be better about going like great performance or great show or whatever the case may be. But yeah, you can't you can't let that stuff get through to you. And there's a niche for everyone in any given subject. And if people are genuinely like sincerely interested, have that genuine curiosity where they want to get to the,

to answers and they want to learn more. Like there's, you can always tell authenticity, you know, and that should be rewarded and paid attention to. So here, here. Hmm. So,

so good. Was there a part of the book that you were like, oh man, this has been in my head for so long and now I can actually put it out there and other people can know? Was there anything like that that was like, This is very, it only lives in this book. Oh, there were a few of those things.

I think trying to show the parallels between certain beliefs, let's say, like pre-Western discovery beliefs associated with, you know, tigers, with bears, with gorillas that are analogous to beliefs that are associated with the Sasquatch, not only in indigenous cultures, but also in modern day, because of the, the Sasquatch is still in that, you know, pre-discovery or undiscovered sort of phase and showing that, you know, I do think that a lot of those are sort of the normative ways of perceiving the world, the natural world as well as the sort of inner world,

these sort of phenomenological descriptions. That was a sort of discovery, I would say, or maybe a revelation would be more like it, because, you know, people had written about this and all these other animals, and I just hadn't encountered it and associated with the Sasquatch yet. So it's not like I made a discovery. It was just like revealed that all this other great work existed, but that no one had really looked into it to the Sasquatch that way.

So trying to make that point of, well, it's wrong to dismiss it because it's associated with supernatural beliefs because other very real animals are too. And we wouldn't dismiss their existence just because they are purported to, you know, mediate between realms or paralyzed people, you know, with their gaze or with their minds. or to know the contents of a person's heart as sort of like a moral judge or something like that. But likewise, to try to defend that against some of those supernatural essentialists or supernatural maximalists, I guess you could say to say like, well, no, we don't think tigers and bears and gorillas can do that. But Sasquots, they definitely can.

They actually really can do all these things because they really do have these powers. You know what I mean? So that I thought was not really as well explored in other books. or illuminated that I'm aware of. I think the discussion about the physiological and psychological responses, you know, as a sort of like bottom-up physiological response, you know, innate freezing, tonic immobility, and then this sort of cognitive shock,

you know, disruption of categorization. Oh, yeah. The encounter with the novel or the unknown, all those occurring simultaneously and then reading the literature to see, like what that basically. does to people and how it incapacitates them. And then you think about an animal that can do all that to a person. And it's not the animal doing it.

It's just the normative innate human response to these categories of stimuli, let's say. And then to, you know, I wanted to illuminate that so fully so that if people read that and understood it, they wouldn't think to themselves when they hear it in counterstory, oh, why didn't you get a picture? You know, it's like because they were incapacitated. By the time their systems come back online, because I describe it as like a series, like a cascade of system failures, as the sort of analogy I use there. And by the time the systems come back online, the thing's gone.

Because, you know, most encounters are very, very brief. And so that I had a lot of fun exploring and writing. The problem is always like what not to say, because any one of those sections I was, I kept adding an ad, I was like, oh, this is going to turn into a chapter. And any one of those chapters could have turned into like three chapters if I wasn't careful. So trying to keep it like under 100,000 words, 300 pages. I knew it was going to be the kind of goal and make it tighter and tighter and more concise. And I wanted it to be unpackable, too, where, you know, you could take a section and really spend a lot of time extracting things out

of it and not just elaborate something to death, you know. That witness section of the book was actually it was my favorite of the book. I had actually a note about it. Just because, as you said, I'd never seen that approached in another book. But the part when you're talking about, I believe you're talking to a witness and she had to explain to you about, you know what it's like when you're driving and there's a car coming towards you and you almost have a head-on collision? It's like that. And that just like really got me. You know, because I'm, I'm usually talking to a lot of witnesses in interviews. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's such a good reminder. That is just like, as you said, like, just systems failures shuts down. Well, I was so young at that time. That was

one of the first witnesses that I'd interviewed. She was a local witness. That sighting happened like maybe half a mile from the house I grew up in. It's real close. I mean, I could walk out my mom's back door and be at that spot in just a couple minutes. And so when I had found her, and it's one of the best sightings, too, because, you know, a lot of people see them in the forest. And so there's some sort of obstructions or it's not always the most favorable conditions or, you know, there's canopy's thick and not a lot of light is getting through. But what she saw, this woman was essentially driving, you know, she, you could, I feature,

we got her to be featured in that first episode of Finding Bigfoot. So she's featured in that episode. She was driving north between Cleveland and Helen, like you're heading towards Helen, Georgia. And there's a stretch where it kind of goes downhill. And this creek called Duke's Creek passes under 75. And this thing came up over the embankment and was crossing the road. And she slammed on the brakes.

And it just stopped. And so it's right in front of her vehicle fully illuminated by her headlights. You know, no obstructions. I mean, she can see it head to toe. And she was terrified. and, you know, short stare off and then it just kept going the way it was going. And so when I first met her at that spot, what was interesting, it was years after it had happened. It was in the early 2000s.

She saw it. The encounter that I had is like a mile from there as the crow flies, maybe two miles. I have to pull up Google Maps. It's very close. It's in the same valley, the same river valley. And my encounter was in summer of 99. her siding was on Thanksgiving Day of 1999. So it could have been the same animal that we encounter.

Who knows? And so by the time I interviewed her at the site, a few years had passed. And, you know, my brain's like exploding with Sasquatch information from these books that I'm reading. And, you know, and I'm trying to, you know, it's like the beautiful mind where all these other reports are coming up. And there's text flashing across my face. And so she was explaining to me what she saw. And there was kind of a quiet moment. And I was so excited.

They just amped up, really. And I was just talking out loud. Like, maybe it was following this creek. And, you know, there's these meadows over here. And there's probably a lot of deer. And maybe it's fun, you know, just talking away. And she just stopped me. She's like, have you seen one?

And I was like, no. And she goes, then you don't know. And she pointed her finger at me. Like, then you don't know. I thought it was going to die. And I had to go like and realize like, oh, this thing that I think is so exciting or cool. she wanted to be understood and I wasn't understanding her.

I was trying to like reverse engineer the mind of this animal and she just wanted someone to go, hey, please believe me. Because, you know, she faced ridicule and disbelief from people and I saw that firsthand too from people in the community

which was terribly unfortunate but, you know, she wanted me to understand that like, no, I was stricken with fear and that's when she says, have you ever been driving and someone swerves into your life? land, you're sure you're going to have a head-on collision. She said, that's what it felt like. She said, it didn't do anything. It didn't exhibit any behaviors that made me feel like.

She said, it was just right there. It was so big. I was thinking, what is that? What is that? Just terrifying, you know, how. And so I've always, that's always stuck with me. And, you know, you'll hear that and witnesses. That's why, you know, in a lot of those historical reports that I include in the historical record, you see the same descriptions of the human response, you know. benumbed, couldn't speak, struck with, immediately struck with palsy, one of them says, or like paralyzed in place on and on and on. I mean, it's very frightening for people. It's just, it's such a good part.

I appreciate it. I'm glad you enjoyed that. I learned a few things from the book, but one that, more than a few, one that sticks out in my mind and hope I'm pronouncing the word right. when you're talking about like the description of the creature itself you talk to I believe the word is cathomerell cathemoral okay can you kind of I think it might be interesting that if you could kind of explain what that what that kind of means it is the first time that I'd ever seen that really talked about and I thought it was fascinating well it was coined fairly recently it's not a very old

term. I'm pretty sure it was Ian Tattersall. In fact, I think I referenced Tattersall. I'm pretty sure Ian Tattersall coined the term. If I'm wrong, I'll have to check back and see. But I was first introduced to that term from BFRO investigator named Dennis Foal because I didn't know there was a technical term for that sort of activity cycle within a 24-hour window. And so Dennis Folle had described and once like, oh, well, if you, and he said that things that they were finding in other areas, you know, because I was living in the Northwest at the time when I first spoke to him. And he said, oh, yeah, well, we're finding just like John Green's database shows, like they're active at day and night, which, you know, you're getting that from a whole lot of reports from many, all of the continent.

He said, but even here in this little area where we're focusing, these individuals seem to be just active at periods like throughout the day and the night, you know, it's like activity, punctuated by inactivity, follow by activity. And I think people are starting to realize that many animals function that way. Animals that we thought were primarily diurnal or primarily nocturnal or crepuscular. Oh, they only move at dawn and dusk. I mean, I think game cameras change that a lot because you have game cameras and it's like, oh, there's bears, you know, at the brightest, hottest part of the day, up moving around.

Oh, there's bears at three in the morning moving around. Oh, there's bears, you know, right before dark. Oh, there's bears after first light. just moving around in these periods of what seem to be pretty cathomeral, you know, lifestyles. So I don't know who necessarily, like which disciplines, whether it's, you know, ethology or biology or who would actually determine whether an animal falls strictly within that category, if that's just sort of a broad category. But it does seem to apply to Sasquatches.

And, but again, other animals seem to fit that bill, too. I mean, I've seen that with wild hogs on game cameras. obviously, you know, we all know that cats, you know, many mammalian predators hunt at night, but I've gotten an equal number of bobcats during the day that I've gotten at night on game camera. So I think it's a term that applies to more of the animal world than we might have realized before we had sort of surveillance systems in the woods. Right.

Yeah. And things are really up to, you know. It's, it's, I was like, man, that's cool. was there a section of the book that you were very apprehensive to write about and you're like, I don't know if I should put this in. I don't know how it's going to be received or maybe that wasn't the case at all. And you're like, hey, let's go for all of this. No sweat.

There were a few. I mean, it's really hard to do Carl Jung's ideas about what. you know, he team the collective unconscious and archetyte. It's hard to do that in short sections. And so, you know, I parsed it down as much as I could, but it's very difficult to fully, I mean, you know, like this collection, the archetypes and the collective unconscious is, it's pretty, and that's not all he wrote about those concepts.

And so to try to make sense of it in the context of the references that I was using, Of course, when it's first introduced is in the first chapter, when we're talking about various sort of or alternative options of the Sasquatch being like a product of the human mind or the human psyche, it's like, well, some people have proposed this, you know, that it's something that's innate within us, i.e., some element of the collective unconscious or some archetypal form or motif. And so trying to parse that down and do it justice was really hard because there's so much

there and then it gets revisited more in depth in a later chapter that's sort of the elaborated Sasquatch. We're sort of elaborating out these biological or psychological models and then seeing how they merge together. We'll be back with more Bigfoot Society after these words from our sponsors. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad?

The answer? The ingredients. But fear not true crime. enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question because both are recipes for chaos. Either

Just say to yourself, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs.

And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored jobs. They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a reason. like this commercial break.

Did you need 15 seconds away for music? Or 15 seconds to eat or Reese's. Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a Reese's. So that was pretty arduous. And then obviously there's a chapter about, you know, these sort of categories. I try to make the analogy that like, well, we have this, this territory, this conceptual territory that we're trying to map. You know, you always hear it said like, well, the map is not the territory.

The map's like a representation of the territory. And there can be errors on the map. And so I stuck with that analogy to say, well, let's look at people that are trying to map this space. The cartographers, you know, there's a lot of people with great intentions who make errors. We all do. No one's immune to error. Like none of us, you know, you can't do some inventory of everything we've ever done or said and find no errors. Of course, we make mistakes or faux pauses or well-intentioned errors.

But then, of course, you do have hoaxers and people that introduce intentionally. you know, false landmarks onto these maps. And then you have people that dismiss them for all the wrong reasons. And so they kind of erase these landmarks, so to speak. And then there's people that try to, oh, here's a big blank space. No one seems to stake the flag here yet. Let me. And then they'll, you know, exploit those places.

And so that was a little tricky to write because I didn't want it to be cynical. I mean, some things have to be necessarily maybe critical. would be the word, but not necessarily trying to criticize as much as I am trying to illuminate. But then I felt like the next chapter, which is the final chapter, is very optimistic. And it's very much, you know, the path forward, reasons to be optimistic, the meaning that can be found in any pursuit. This one, you know, is no different. Pursuing the Sasquatch can be just as meaningful as pursuing, you know, other endeavors. And so that one was a little hard to write because it was, It felt like it could get cynical at times if I wasn't being careful.

So I tried really hard to not be cynical. But then the next one being optimistic, I think balanced it out, hopefully. You can tell me, because it's hard to be, I can't read it as an outsider, you know. The chapter that you're referring to with the map analogy, at the beginning, I was like, I don't know if he's going to get through this minefield without exploding in it. Like you made it through is really like, I was like, wow, that was intense, but very well done. And yeah, it's all, it's, it's one of the best parts of the book.

In my opinion, I mean, because there's a lot of truth in there that makes you think, you know, and especially if you know a lot about the community, it really makes you think, you know, what's the motivation behind what the people that you know, why they're trying to find Sasquatch, what's their motivation? And it really... Or if they're trying to find Sasquatch. Or if they're just trying to appear as if they're trying to find Sad Squat. And that's...

It can be a frustrating thing. And it is funny because... The other funny thing is like, I was like, well, should I worry about some people being, you know, offended by that? Because it's not really an accusation. It's just an observation that, well, there are some people who have the appearance of being heavily involved, but in fact, like all their energy goes into creating the appearance of being heavily involved. And then I realize, like, oh, they won't be offended because they don't read books. So I don't have to worry about it.

You know what I mean? Like, seriously. No, that's true. They're not trying to contend with whether or not the Sasquatch exists and if it exists what it could be. You know, they're not wrestling with those questions. They're worried about other things. And so I was like, I'll never read this, you know. So yeah.

And I'm not, you know, naming people, my name or anything. I mean, this was just categories of people that have been around since the beginning. If there was anything I didn't put in there, there was one section where I talk about sort of two of the original luminaries, I would say, and how divergent their paths were in terms of the way that they conducted themselves, the way they presented themselves, and their sort of impact on the subject. And then I thought, no, I won't. I won't leave that in there just because it was,

it wasn't necessarily the kindest about one of those people. So I'll just leave it at that, you know. I totally get it. That section made me kind of think pretty deep about some stuff too. Do you think that as a research community, we are maybe, I want to be careful how I say it because I don't want to trigger algorithms. Kind of making it so we'll never reach the goal by cloaking all of our research areas

so that we are the only ones that know where they are. And there's no central area of knowledge because no one should. sharing because they want to know they want to have all the glory for themselves. Do you think we're the phrases. I think there's pros and cons. Yeah. There's costs and benefits to everything. And then obviously like if you're completely forthcoming about your specific research

areas, let's say, like where you're spending the most time hoping to either encounter physical evidence or sign or a living Sasquatch itself. If you're forthright about that, you wouldn't. be surprised if someone eventually played a prank on you or hoaxed you, right? And so, of course, there's a benefit to not disclosing that information, but there might be some cost. But, I mean, for the most part, it's like, well, you know, I'm doing stuff in North Georgia, East Tennessee, western North Carolina. Like, it's not going to do me any good to tell people in the Pacific Northwest where I am, because it's not like they can get out here and help me anyway. They'd be

looking at the same Google Maps data that I am trying to make, you know, decisions. And so, there probably are some costs to not being able to share certain things and not being able to communicate things. But I think the biggest part of that is like, yeah, people are right to protect themselves from, you know, because you're trying to control as many variables as possible, which is like, well, hey, I'm reasonably certain that if I heard this sort of this category sound in this place or found this sort of impression in this place, I'm fairly, certain that it wasn't made for my, you know, detection versus like if I talked all the time about exactly where I was going, then anything I'd heard, I'd be like, well, is that someone

who's like, hey, that, we got to get that Pruitt guy, you know, go knock trees or whatever, you know. So I can understand that sort of that protective part of it. But, you know, I would say maybe the other big part of that is that I wish that now for me I can't I can't speak to what I don't want to be the guy I just complained about in the beginning of this show by saying like what you need to do is what I have chosen to do for myself and you know again it has pros and cons to me mostly pros is that, you know, if you were to familiarize yourself with, like, categories of evidence, and then sort of identify what it seems to be, like, the best in its class of each category, you know, in terms of tracks.

Well, some of them are extraordinarily detailed, you know, like the Grays Harbor County tracks. Like there's one right there. Here, you see all five toes. You see the sort of, like, you know, the bony prominences in certain places, et cetera. Now, those have never constituted proof. they're still sort of contested or debated to this day. So for me, it's like, well, if I find a track or a track way or something like that of lesser quality, lesser detail, let's say, you know, where, you know, they're just soggy impressions in the duff, you know, I would of course document it and as much as I could. But would I release it? Would I publish it?

It's like, well, why? Because if something that's much higher in quality, higher resolution, doesn't constitute, you know, compelling evidence to many people, then why should I expect that something of much lesser quality would be compelling? So I would spend more time defending something rather than like, okay, well, I've seen these tracks. I should keep coming back here. Now I have a reason to invest more time and energy in this particular spot because I found these impressions and maybe I'll get better tracks, you know, an excellent line of tracks.

And I do the same thing with audio recordings. I mean, I do use audio recorders in the field. I just record a night at a time. I don't record for weeks or months or something like that. And I've heard vocalizations and sometimes I've recorded them, but you have something as clear as the Ohio howl, you know, and there's other examples of that recording, that sort of vocalization rather, you know, big bellowing moaning howls,

but not many of them are as close and clear as that. So it's like, okay, well, if I got one that was noisier and seemed to be further away and fainter, where it's like, oh, hey, well, I ran it through 30 filters, but listen to it with headphones on and make sure the volumes all the way. Like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to defend something that's not equal to or better than the best in its class.

And so the con of that is like, you know, the cost versus benefit. Well, the cost of that is that I've had to go around saying, Like, I've been trying to get better evidence for 20 years, and here's my collection of zero things. But I can live with that, you know, because I would prefer to say, okay, well, if I want to put something forth, I know it's defensible because it, you know, the quality is so high. And I think people do themselves, they set themselves up for a lot of headache and heartache by constantly feeling the need in that community. to either appease people who are paying attention or very often to compete with other researchers

and say like, oh, I've got this entire catalog of evidence. And we've all seen those sorts of things. And it's like red circle after red circle and broken twig after broken twig and divot in the ground after divot in the ground. And some of those may be Sasquatch related,

but like when you look at those pictures, it's like, well, I'll never know. I'll never know if you can break that twig or not. And so let's save it. So for me, like that's, that's part of why I do. don't necessarily like quote unquote share with the community is like I don't have anything I feel is worse hearing yet but I'll keep trying for it and if I never get it that's fine because I'm having

a blast along the way but so I think a lot of what is being shared within the community is what also drives all the animosity is that you know because there is a section in that chapter about the value of claims and evidence yeah like what has value to one person because they were there so they have a personal connection to it, oftentimes has no value to anyone who wasn't there. Again, they look at it and they go, well, how do I know you didn't break that twig? Or like, listen to these knocks I recorded.

It's like, well, how do I know that's not you in your backyard hitting a tree? Versus when you hear a big powerful vocalization like the Ohio, no one thinks that that's like a dude standing out there. It's like, what is that? That's pretty strange. It sounds like an animal. It doesn't sound synthesized or mechanical. What kind of animal is that?

So that's really remarkable. So I think sometimes sharing is the driver of all that animosity. You know what I mean? That is so interesting. Is there, you know, let's say you have a person reading your book. Is there something that you're hoping that they take away or changes them in a certain way after they're done reading your book? I hope that it makes, if someone's already pretty invested in the Sasquatch subject, and again, like a devoted student, I hope it expands.

And they think, oh, wow, there's more here than I was aware of. And there's things I didn't know about. And I do hope it makes people a bit more charitable and generous. Because I do try to say, like, again, those ways to sort of look at each other more generously, more charitably, not so negatively. I mean, the only negative things I call out are like the obvious exploiters and hoaxers and charlatans and people that are genuinely bad actors. And then for the layperson, you know, if someone's brand new to the subject, I just want them to come away and go, like, I had no idea there was so much to this. That it's not just, you know, a few campfire stories and a couple of plaster casts and that one grainy film.

You know, that's what the rest of the world thinks it is. And so I hope they come away and go, wow, there's a lot here. There's really, this is really a question worth answering, hopefully. Man, Matt, it has been a fun time having you on. I would really recommend people go and get a copy of your book and check it out for themselves. So, so recommend it. Are there other ways that people can keep up to date with what you are doing? Oh, yeah. You can go to, if you want to reach out, it's at Matt Pruittonline.com, and there's a contact form there.

And then about the only social media I use for Bigfoot related stuff is Twitter. I think it's at M. Pruitt Bigfoot. I tweet very infrequently. And so most of the time that I'm on social media, it's for Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. So you can always reach out through that podcast too. And then I do co-host the bonus show that we do called Beyond Bigfoot and Beyond. So you can hear me on there as well. How do you hear the bonus show, Matt? It's on Patreon. So if you go to like Bigfoot and Beyond Podcast.com and click membership or in the show notes of any of the Bigfoot and Beyond episodes, there's a link to the, it's $5 a month. And we drop an episode every Thursday. So that's been going on for.

Next month will be a year. So we'll be celebrating a year of the bonus show. And it's pretty fun. It's less filtered, I would say. Yeah, it's good stuff. Bobo's less filtered. Let's say it. There you go.

Oh, man. Thank you so much for coming on, Matt. This has been a good time. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it, Jeremiah. Thank you. Here at Bigfoot Society, our goal is to provide a platform for those that have encountered Bigfoot to share their encounter in a safe and respected environment.

But we need to hear your story. If you've experienced something that you just can't explain, please send me an email. at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. Then we can start the conversation. And I know a lot of you have not shared your encounter at all. It's been 20 years. And it's time that you get this off your chest.

And then you can get some well-deserved for rest because I know you haven't been sleeping. I understand what you're going through. And I appreciate every one of you listening. On this episode of Plant Killers, will explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle Grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with

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Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to your... yourself. This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the

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It said everything happens for a reason, but maybe everything happens for a Reesis. Take noise-canceling headphones. Do they block hearing to heighten taste? Hmm. That sound seems to show. Everything happens for a recess. On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle grow organic raised bed in garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost.

compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on plant killers. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or, go. a different way, and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a higher than

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