Bigfoot Society - The Rise of W.A.R.G: A Conversation with Brian Brown | Area X, SE Oklahoma

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

Join us as we delve deep into the world of Bigfoot with Mr. Brian Brown, a seasoned researcher and founder of several Bigfoot-related forums and podcasts. In this episode, Brian shares his experiences investigating the elusive wood ape in the remote valleys of Southeast Oklahoma. From founding the Bigfoot Forum in 2002 to his current work with the Wood Ape Research Group (WARG), we explore his many encounters and research findings. Brian recounts detailed sightings and interactions, such as seeing a large gray ape through a gap in the trees and having close encounters in camp where apes poked at tents and displayed aggressive behaviors. We also learn about the unique features of Area X, the nut-cracking stations, and strange lights observed in the woods. Watch as we uncover the unique behaviors and potential social structures of these elusive primates, and discuss the challenges and methodologies of collecting evidence in such rugged terrain.Resources:Tag 7 paper (NAWAC) - https://www.woodape.org/index.php/tag7/Audio Catalog from NAWAC - https://www.woodape.org/index.php/catalog-of-recorded-audio/You can find the Wood Ape episode of Rob Lowe's show here on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/The-Lowe-Files-Season-1/dp/B074CLQBD4Share your Bigfoot encounter with me here: [e-mail] to call in and leave a voicemail of your encounters for the podcast - Check this out here - https://www.speakpipe.com/bigfootsociety(Use multiple voice mails if needed!)🔴 Subscribe to hear more Bigfoot encounters: https://www.youtube.com/@BigfootSociety?sub_confirmation=1Share this video with a friend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5v75Od-X38Watch more episodes of the Bigfoot Society podcast here – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3t1vwtsKh-MGeHs0XglFJE5LwUHpmJm_&feature=sharedRecommended Playlist – New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3t1vwtsKh-Mk4032IyZtWgP6LVPU8uat✅ Help me help others share their Bigfoot Encounter by joining the community on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsociety✅ Hear ad-free episodes early by joining the community on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7Q/joinLet’s connect:Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/bigfootsociety/Twitter – https://twitter.com/bigfoot_societyTiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@bigfoot.societyAffiliate links mean I earn a commission from qualifying purchases. This helps support my channel at no additional cost to you.My Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3L1q8XYPut some pep in my step by buying me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/bigfootsocietyPick up some merch here: https://www.etsy.com/shop/bigfootsociety/?etsrc=sdtSend mail here:Bigfoot Society125 E 1st St. #233Earlham, IA 50072Send business inquiries to: [e-mail]

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All right, Bigfoot Society. You've got the privilege of talking to Mr. Brian Brown today. Brian Brown is an individual that you may have heard his name in different things associated with Bigfoot over the years. In 2002, he founded the Bigfoot Forum. He also started the Bigfoot Information Project podcast. And of course, a lot of people know him from the Bigfoot show, which launched in 2007. He was part of the NAWAC where he served on the board directors there. He helped launch the podcast Apes Among Us back in the day. And he's had a ton of time spent in the great state of Oklahoma looking into what is called down there, the WoodApe. So Brian, it's a pleasure to have you on the show today.

Thanks for coming on. No, it's my pleasure. This is great. I'm excited to be here. Absolutely. Brian, I wanted to have you on because we were talking to the pre-show. There's so much media and things you can find about those things that I just talked about that you've been involved with. You're involved with some things now.

The organization is called Warg. What Warg is, WoodAidate Research Group, that's what we call ourselves. And honestly, we're just a group of friends. Most of us, if not all of us, I think about it. Most of us are former NAWAC members. We wanted to continue to go out into the field and work together and hang out together. And so we created this group to sort of support that effort. And we've done some internal fundraising in the group.

We've procured some equipment like a thermal and things like that, some audio recorders. So we're just trying to continue our work and continue to work together in these areas. that we've spent so much time in already. And so, yeah, that's pretty much it. We're not that big. We don't have a huge public profile, but we do get out at least once, sometimes twice a year.

In fact, I just got back from a week spent in the Oregon forest, actually, with a couple of work members, and we're planning another trip into what is sort of largely referred to as area X sometime next spring. That's extremely interesting. So you guys are, I would assume that from what I've picked up from different places, you are close to, I don't know, did you call the whole region down there is Area X? Like, the NAWC doesn't own the region area X, but you kind of made it a little bit bigger and broader, so it's other areas as well. One of the ways that I think it's best to find, if you go back to the NADAVC and you look at the Tag 7 paper,

which is the radio tag work that happened while I was in the group, when that animal was tagged and the various times that the group was able to actually track it and see where it was, the geographic region was much larger than just the valley that the group was working in. And that was really interesting because for a long time, we didn't really understand. what the range of these animals were. We didn't really understand if there was anything unique about the particular valley that up to that point had been called their area X. And what we saw on that tag seven data is that the animal that was tagged moved all around that region, in and out of that valley, into neighboring valleys. If you've ever looked on a map at the Washtas in southeastern Oklahoma, you'll see that there's all these sort of adjoining drainagees. There's all these valleys that sort of are over the ridge from each other,

but there's lots and lots of habitat in areas. So it does make some certain sense that these animals wouldn't necessarily be locked into particular valleys. So the way that we started, me, the people in Warg, and I think also the people in the NAWAC, we started talking about sort of that region, that sort of series of watersheds and drainagees, all being basically area X. So that it isn't like there's dotted line on a map that says it exactly where it is, but I would say that all of those valleys neighboring with one another, in my mind, that's all area X.

So not only the specific valley that the NAAC works in that I've been in, you know, many times over the years, but also the neighboring ones. And literally what we in the WoodAith Research Group, we're in the valley next door. So we're very close. And we didn't really know it was going to happen when we went in there. It's a very different scenario. None of the property in there is owned by anyone in the group. It's not private.

A lot of it is public lands. We weren't sure if we were going to have any encounters in there. But it turns out that we have. So it just goes to show. I think it supports what the radio tag information showed us, is that these animals are sort of all around that region. they're not just inhabiting the one valley that the NAAWC has been in for so long. You know, if you've listened to the NAAC podcast, there's an episode where we talk about what

the group calls Old Gray, which may be one large gray ape, or it could be a number of large gray apes, but we have seen large gray apes, either individually or a number of them in the valley that they work in, I've seen that ape in that valley. I've also seen a gray ape in the valley we work in. Is it the same ape? I don't know. But it could be. It's not that far away. It's a very large animal with presumably a large range. So it's really an unknown. We don't know if they are exactly the same animals or if they are a related group of animals. That's just one of those unknowns that we probably will never have the answer to, honestly. I think it would be good to take a few minutes to kind of focus on what does Warg view this creature as an organization?

And what is the main end goal? No, I think that what we're trying to do now is just collect evidence. Like I said, we've invested in a thermal unit that has video recording capabilities. We've invested in some sound recorder in ARU. So we're trying to collect evidence. Our mission, such as it is, is pretty modest because we understand what our capabilities are and how many people are in the group. There's only so much that we can do.

We don't have nearly enough people in the group to put on sort of multi-week operations where we have various teams all change together. So we're just trying to collect data. We're trying to collect evidence at this point. And that would be any of the things I said. So thermal footage would be fantastic. We don't have any of that yet. Audio would be fantastic.

We do have some really interesting audio. I don't know that any of it is so unique that you've not heard things similar to it out on the internet. But we have collected some interesting audio. We'd be interested in finding track information, footprint information. It's very hard in that substrate in the Wasatahs to collect the animal tracks, but we would love to see that. And I don't think any of these things are necessarily going to prove the animal to someone who, already doesn't accept that it might be possible. But that's pretty much what we're doing.

And of course, we're all friends. So we want to hang out together and have a good time doing it. That makes total sense. How many years have you guys been in this area as organization warg? Uh, 2020, I'm going to say. So about four years. I think that that's about when everything now in my mind is like, did it happen before the pandemic or after the pandemic?

And I'm pretty sure that we came to. together in 2020. So I'm pretty sure that's the first time we went in there. And the area that we operate in actually, funny story about that, when back in the day, if you remember that Rob Lowe had a TV show called The Low Files, two kids, and, you know, they went all over the place. I'm in that I'm in one of those episodes. And the place that we took them, we didn't take them into area X proper. We didn't take them into, like, the area that the NAAC worked in, mostly because it's just too hard to get into. They had this whole production career with like, you know, trailers and, and, you know, RVs and things. So we took them into the neighboring valley and we had some really interesting things happened that night with Roblo and his kids present. And so that's basically kind of the nexus of where we operate. We don't stay exactly in that spot all the time, but that whole valley is where we are operating right now. And again, because we had so much really cool stuff happened that one night that we were there with Roblo, they didn't have enough time. They didn't actually want to be there overnight.

They just wanted to come in and shoot and then leave. So there was really no way we could have taken them into the actual spot that has, you know, before that one valley called Airyx. It just takes too long to get into. And some of the roads are really not great. And again, they had a whole Hollywood production team. They had three RVs and, you know, different vehicles. It was a real sort of like caravan of Hollywood bizariness in Oklahoma.

the likes of which I'm sure Oklahoma has never seen. And so we couldn't really take them in there. But again, we took them right next door. And we didn't really know what to expect. But it was a tremendous night, actually. I heard two whoops, a whoop and a return standing right next to Rob. We heard these amazingly clear whoops, a call on a return from one from one side of the creek and one on our side of the creek. Another guy in Ward Brandon Lentz, he saw an ape through a thermal.

device that did not have the capability to record. So he saw on it that way. We heard, and the lows heard various vocalizations, like ape sounds, you know, like who-hoo-hoo kind of sounds. It was a crazy, it was a crazy night. We had all kinds of cool stuff happening. And that was like literally from, I don't know, two, three hours before sunset to about, I don't know, one or two in the morning thereabouts. So it wasn't a huge amount of time. And all kinds of crazy takes place. It was amazing.

It was awesome. And none of it, none of it showed up on the TV show. If you watch the show, you don't get any of that, unfortunately. That's terrible. But yeah, that's Hollywood, right? Yeah. When you started going back into this valley and you started up Warg in 2020, was there a situation where it just something,

something off the wall happened and you're like, okay, we are in the right place. This is really intense. You know, it has it. I would say that again, we had an inclination that there were, that the apes were there because of this, this night we spent there with Roblo. And also, we had been scoping out other areas when I was still in the NAWAC. We had sort of explored this valley and a couple of our members had gone in there and had also experienced some things that, It seems really ape-related. So we had a really good idea that there were going to be AIDS and Sally. And there's really no reason for there not to be.

It's a little easier to get into, but the environment and the lack of any sort of normal human activity is almost exactly the same as the neighboring valley. There are roads that go through them. They're pretty darn rough once you get in there a little ways. Like at this point in my life, I don't think I'm going to drive down one of those roads anymore because I've done too much damage. to my truck over the years. But the people that go through there are almost always ATV years. Obviously hunting season is a big deal. But you go 100 feet off the road and you're in areas that people just don't go. They're just not penetrated by human beings. And if you look on a map, if you look on the satellite map, you can see like whole drainage, valleys that have no roads

in them whatsoever. That are probably that a human being goes into maybe once a year. And if that often. So it's pretty remote, even though it's maybe 50% easier to get to than the neighboring valley where the other group works. So we had no reason to believe that there wasn't going to be apes in the valley and we're sort of pleasantly surprised, not pleasant, not surprised at all, but sort of, you know, it's nice that when we go in there, we can still have some experiences. And I think that is one of them, I don't know, if mystery is the right. word, but it is one of the questions that this area presents. Why are there so many, why is it so often that if you go in there for a period of time and do the right things, why so often is it possible

to either see or hear or in some way interact with innate in this part of the world? It is, it is truly, truly amazing. And again, I just spent a week near Mount Hood in Oregon following the direct of Cliff Burton and he sort of gave us a general idea of where we should go and was really generous with his time. And it was an entirely different experience, you know. So it really just showed, to me, highlighted the uniqueness and incredible just habitat that Area X represents that, you know, you can go there for a week. And you have a reasonably good chance of having some kind of ape-related experience up to and including visuals, which we've had. multiples in the four years that we've been over there. Not to get too sidetracked, but I'm just really curious.

What was the main reason to go off to the Mount Hood area when you have access to this area in southeast Oklahoma, which is probably like people would go nuts in order to get there, right? Like, you know. Honestly, it's because I've been going into these very same mountains since, oh gosh, what was it? 2006, I think. 2006, 2007, one of those was when I first went in there. And there were some years,

there was one year, I think I went down there three times. I live in Minnesota, right? So it's an all-day drive to get down there. There was one year, I think I went in there three times. There were multiple years where I went twice. Bigfoot Society will be right back after these messages. Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily?

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and right now they're doing more with less. At a time when children's healthcare is becoming more urgent and complex. That's why Children's Miracle Network is inviting you to join our movement to ensure all kids get the care they need. Learn more at CMN.org slash pledge. And in several of us, you know, the folks that went to Oregon, we were looking for just a change of scenery. And I kind of want to know more about other areas, compare, and contrast. Like, I feel like I know a lot about these valleys in southeast and Oklahoma.

I don't know a lot about how apes are in other areas, and I would like to know more. So I think this is going to be kind of a thing. At least personally, I'd like to probably have a trip down to Oklahoma every year and then a trip to some other area where we know apes exist. For example, next year I'd love to go to the Blues in eastern Oregon because so much stuff happens there. So I think it's just a change of pace and also just trying to become a more sort of well-rounded researcher or more having a better idea of all of these various habitats. I have been in Northern California. I've been in the only peninsula. I've been in Idaho.

But I've never spent anything near the amount of time in any of those places like I have down in Oklahoma. It makes sense to look at it that way. Were there any lessons that you took away from your time near Mount Hood that will affect your research when you get down to Oklahoma next? It's a really good question. I think the biggest, I would say probably no. because we tried all the things that we do when we're in Oklahoma, and they didn't really seem to have the stuff. When we go into Oklahoma, when we go into X or the area around there,

one of the things we do is we try to insert ourselves into their environment. You know, we spend a lot of time walking the roads, but also cutting across country and really sort of making a show of inserting ourselves into the area. Because one of the things that I believe is that these apes, they will follow you back to camp. come back to camp with you. And I have lots of reasons to believe this. I have lots of experiences that back this up. That if you put yourself out where they are, they will come back and observe. They are incredibly curious animals. And they are very patient animals. They will spend,

they will be, they will just sit there and watch you in camp. And that's what we want, right? So we did that exact same thing in when we were in Oregon near Mount Hood. And that did not happen. as far as we know we you know we were looking we had our thermal we we had nothing around camp for the entire week that really felt in any way apish at all like in and that's just not how it is in oklahoma at all and one of the reasons i think that is is because when we were there even during the week there are a lot of people in those woods you know the the forest where we were mount hood is is you know less than two hours from portland which is a city with millions of people in it. And there were lots of people in the woods that we were in. The roads that we were driving on

were paved for Pete's sake. I mean, I felt like I was cheating. I was bigfooting off of a paved road. This is not what I'm used to. And so I think that people, humans in that habit that just aren't as interesting. You know, they aren't as novel as they are in Area X. Again, I think people will drive through on ATVs and things, but it's really, I think, unusual for humans to go into that area and stick around for a week at a time and traips through the woods off of the beaten path, you know, literally, you know, traipsing through Greenbrier and things like that. That's really unusual, but I don't think in Oregon it's that unusual. So I don't think people are that interesting to the Yates there. At least this is my supposition, right, based on my entire week

of being there. So I think that what I learned was that our approach to, eliciting ape interaction just didn't work in Oregon. And so it's, and I also think you have to look at the environment. You know, I was, as I was looking at the maps, there are wilderness areas that are very close to where we were that are many times larger than what I would refer to as area X, right? So like these animals can retreat into this wilderness area and never see a person and never be bothered by a person. So I think one of the interesting things about X in my mind, I've always thought of it as sort of like a tide pool. You know, it's like the surrounding forests have been divided and clear cut and turned into timber farms and, you know, things like that. People have moved in. And so the regions, the areas that are the hardest to do that kind of stuff and have remained sort of untouched. And so they are kind of a forest tide pool where the animals in the area can retreat into these areas and be in fairly high concentration. When you're in Oregon, the Pacific Northwest, Washington, Oregon, Northern California, it's just vast.

It's vast areas of forest. And so you might have the same number of animals, but the animals per square kilometer in Oklahoma is going to be a lot higher. That's my perception. That's what I've figured out. We did have some interesting things happen in near Mount Hood. We heard wood knocks. We were doing rock clacks and had a return from a drainage area down by a creek. We found a track with cliff.

So there's definitely apes there. And I think if you have a trained ear, you can pick up on some of those things. But we never had anything like an encounter the way that we would, I don't know if I would say that we would expect to have it in Oklahoma, but the way that we have had many times in Oklahoma, nothing like that happened in Oregon. Back to Oklahoma. So over these last few years that you've been down in this valley, have you also been able to have Class A sightings in the valley that you're in now? Yes. Yeah. I can, off top of my head, I can think of two of them. I'm going to get the years wrong because I'm not good at this stuff. My brain just doesn't work this way. But I'm going to say, I think it was two years ago. So like 2022, I was in there with a group of, let's see, there was Rich and Steve and Brandy. and so there's like four other guys plus me and five other guys plus me so it was a pretty big group six guys and we were hiking down this road and we again this is what we do we just we spend we hike

miles and miles and miles over the course of the time that we're in these areas and we walked all the way down this road in some parts it's really not a road you're sort of scrambling over boulders and in creek beds and things like that but it was a pretty long hike and We were tuckered when we got to this sort of little intersection. It's like a T where the road ended, butted into another road. And so we were just sitting there resting, taking a break. And I was sitting on a rock in the middle of the road. And I was looking into the forest across from me.

And it's one of the situations, if you've been in the forest, sometimes there's just like these weird little slots where all of a sudden you can see really deep into the forest, like for no particular reason just because the trees grew in a certain way so that you would have visibility deep in. And as I was sitting there, I saw a large gray thing walk through this gap in the trees, this long sort of slot that allowed me to see deep into the forest. And I saw this thing walk through.

And even me, even in 2022, after having been in the area for, you know, at that point a long time, more than a decade, and having had sort of multiple visuals of these apes, Even at that point, the first thing my brain said was like, who's that guy? Like, who's that? Like, it was like, it's not one of my guys. Like, they're all sitting right here around me, right? And then almost as soon as it was out of sight, this visual lasted, you know, a second, right?

Because it was as long as it could take this thing to move from left to right through this gap in the trees. In my mind's like, that wasn't a guy, you idiot. That was an ape, right? So I said, like, I think I just saw an ape. We did our thing. You know, the guys went in there. I stayed where I was to get an idea of size and they went in there to see if they could see anything. They didn't see anything.

And what I figured out from the size is that this thing was really big. It was, I mean, I can't tell you how tall it was, but it was significantly larger than the guys I was with who were all like, you know, six feet and under. You like so. I mean, it was a very large animal. And which is consistent with the gray ones that we see down there. The gray ones are always really, really big. And so that was pretty exciting. And so we kept sitting there.

And as I was looking down this slot, there was this tree that was sort of like whipping around. And it was a pine tree. And it was interesting to me because there was a little bit of wind, but this tree was moving a lot more than the amount of wind that we had suggested it should. And I thought that was weird, right? It didn't occur to me that it was ape related. It was. So I just sort of looked at this tree from time to time. And this guy, Steve, who was in there with us, he's like really dialed in when he's in the valley.

He pays attention to things. And so he was looking at this tree. And he was right behind my left shoulder looking down the slot at this tree. And I was kind of not, I'd already see my ape, right? So I kind of wasn't paying attention. He exclaimed that there was a monkey in the tree. That's what he said. There's a monkey in that tree.

And as soon as he said it, I looked up, and what I saw was like the rear end of two other guys, because they all sort of jumped in front of me to look down the slot. And what they saw, I saw nothing because they were in my way. That's okay. I already saw my ape that day. What they saw was a black animal, all black, in this pine tree, and they saw it drop out of the tree, sort of hanging. So the tree was like it had bent over at a 45 degree angle, and it was hanging from the top of the tree. It let go, dropped it to the ground, the tree whipped up, and then it sort of walked off. And this was not even half an hour after my visual, clearly a different animal. Now, what's interesting about this is a couple of things. That whipping trees, getting into a tree, high up and a tree and sort of rocking back and forth,

possibly an attempt to break it, that is the thing that we've seen them do. I've literally seen an ape do that. We've heard them do that. We know that they go up into trees and break the trees by sort of like rocking back and forth on the thing until it snaps, right? I don't know if that's what this ape is doing, but it was definitely trying to shake this tree in some kind of display. I don't know. So that's interesting. That's behavior that we've seen before, that we've recorded before in those valleys.

And also there were two animals, which is also something I think it's not unique to Area X, but it's very, very common in Area X that if you see an ape, there is another ape there. We have a lot of reports, both in the old group and in our group, of seeing pairs of animals. So that is also really interesting to me. It's just a common thing in Area X to see two animals together. That's what we saw that day. That just happened two years ago. That was pretty cool.

And so that's an example of the kinds of things we've had. Just last year, Steve was there again. Steve, like I said, he's a bird dog. We had gone on a long hike around. I was exhausting. I remember thinking that I was getting too old for this stuff. But anyway, we'd gone on a really exhausting long hike. We were back at camp.

And Steve was standing there with binoculars, like burning binoculars. A burning binoculars or a binocular? I forget what he had actually now that I mention it. But he was sort of just standing around with this, you know, I think it was a monocular. And he, I remember sitting there thinking, looking at him like, God, he's just like, sit down, take a rest, man. We just got back from this super long hike and you're still doing it, right? You're still doing the thing. But because he was doing that, he saw an ape behind a tree sort of looking around the tree at us.

and it was far enough away that maybe it didn't think that Steve could see it, but Steve exclaimed to the group that he saw an ape looking from behind the tree. And so one of the guys rich, and one of the guys, Brandon, who were both birders and had binoculars, they

went to where he was. I went over there, too. I didn't have anything to use to enhance my vision, so I didn't see anything. But they're, you know, I don't know, maybe gosh, 60, 70 yards, maybe a little further than that.

Away, there was a tree, and all three of them saw various parts of this animal. Steve probably had the best view, the longest view. But they all saw basically black fur behind this tree standing up behind this tree, observing us, which again, that's exactly what we want them to do. That's what we think they're going to do when we go on these long heights, that we're going to bring them back to camp and we can sort of watch them or have some other experience with them in that way.

So those are just two examples up the top of my head of visuals we've had that are very reminiscent of the things that would happen, you know, next door in the, in the other valley. So yeah, definitely still having visuals, still having experiences. And those are just the visuals. We've had, you know, wood knocks and Ohio-how type vocalizations and whoops and all the sort of regular laundry list of things you would expect from a week in area X. You guys have actually had, it sounds like visuals of the face. And I've talked to a lot of people over the years. And it's fascinating how people tend to sometimes describe it, like different types of apes. Rangutan comes up, stuff like that.

From what you guys are seeing down there, does it remind you particularly of any certain type of ape? Or is it its own special type of new ape? I've not had extended visuals of a face with that kind of detail. So I can only speak sort of in secondhand. I believe the way that Steve described this animal, because he saw, you know, one-half to 60% of this animal's faces it was looking around. It was black.

Bigfoot Society will be right back after these messages. Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel... Uh-huh. And more. More?

Huh. I didn't think we could feel like that again at our age. Oh, get ready, girl. Ooh, la-la. Man, I feel like a woman. It's Addie, the little pink pill. Addie is a prescription medicine for women under 65 with hypoactive low sexual desire disorder that's distressing to them. Addie is for low desire that happens in all situations and isn't caused by a medical condition, relationship issues, or medicines.

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I believe it was black skin. Again, this wasn't my encounter, but it was ape looking, right? It wasn't people looking. It didn't look like a human face. Now, it's really, I was just at Cliff Bergman's Museum in, in Boring, Oregon. And one of the things that they have on display there is this like, you know, the Bigfoot Face project. I forget what it's called exactly. But there's this poster of all the different faces that, that witnesses have described, you know.

And there's quite a lot of variety there. So I know what you're talking about. But I think in this case, from what I recollect, what Steve described was something that was pretty sort of guerrilla. looking. So yeah, not a human looking face. That's not what I recollect him. How we described it at all. Has there been a time over the last few years where it's just maybe they got too close into camp? I know there's been situations like this over in, let's say, the old group, but has that happened to you guys where it's like you guys, they're too close? They're pretty much on top of us now, you know? Yeah, I think that they have come into camp. They've, they've, they,

They've walked through camp. They've poked at people in tents in the valley that we're in. One of the last times that we were, that we camp really deep into the valley, it could have been that same trip where we had the visual of the two different apes on that road. One of them came into camp late at night and woke up Rich. And he exclaimed that, you know, I think there's an ape in camp or something like that. I woke up. And he heard it walk up this trail above our camp.

And then as we were sort of like processing that, we were all in our separate tents. We didn't come out of the tents. Very soon after that, there was just this, like, the most powerful resonant wood knock I've ever heard in that valley. Like it was so powerful that like it, I felt it in my chest, right? This, whatever this ate did, I have no idea how they'd make this sound. But it was clearly striking a tree and it was so loud. and so powerful as if to say like I'm still the biggest baddest, you know, mofo in the valley because we were all making a big sound as it came to camp. That's pretty common for for them to

enter camp in that area. It's kind of what we were hoping was going to happen when we were near Mount Hood. It never did anything like it. But yeah, so I think that there are some, there's some examples in the old group, especially in the earlier days where the animals were really pressing in on us. I have minor PTSD from a week that I, one of the first weeks that I spent in there where that sort of thing happened. I don't know that we've had that kind of experience

in the Valley Next Door, but again, I think that was more common in the early days. And I have some theories as to why that might be, but it feels to me like they're still very curious, they still come into camp. They're still poking around, sometimes literally poking at people in tents, but it doesn't feel like they are quite as close or putting quite the pressure on us as they did in those early days.

Is that something that's happened to you specifically where you were poked through the tent or is that other guys in the crew? I've not been poked in Kentucky in Oklahoma. That did happen to me once in Washington State. But in area X, yeah, we've had we've had people poked in private. We've had, you know, one guy was the animal actually reached through a window of a cabin and touched him as he was sleeping. So that is a thing that we've experienced sort of we, the royal we, not me personally, but the people that I've been in there with. It is not unusual.

My current theory of the situation is that the people sleeping in tents or people just being there at night the way that we are when we're in there is kind of novel. I don't think they see that a lot. And so again, they're very curious. You know, they are definitely obviously primates. They've got great big brains. And so we're really interesting, I think. So I think that there is some curiosity. And one of my suppositions, one of my theories is the animals that were getting very close early on,

I think they were just young. I think they were young and dumb. I think they were really, really insatiably curious. and they were willing to put themselves in a situation that to us felt very threatening. I don't know that they were actually trying to threaten us, but, you know, when you've got six, seven, eight-foot apes, like, you know, hanging out in the shadows all around you, it does feel a little freaky.

And so I think that there was sort of a useful exuberance, you might say, in the apes at that time that I think they've kind of grown out of. So that's just a personal theory of mine. makes sense though. I totally see that. Something that I always thought was really interesting mentioned in the old group was how there was that station that was found where it was like the nut cracking station. The nut cracking station shows definitely intelligence. Have you ever found any evidence like that in your valley at all? I think I think I found the first one in the old group because the first time we saw I'm not crushing station. I don't know if that's 100%

accurate but I remember that was the first one that we documented really well. In the valley that we're in now, I look for them all the time. And so what you'll often find is, you know, there's the, if you're an ape researcher and you're observing like a chimp or something, there's like the hammer rock, which is the small one, and there's the anvil rock, which is the big one, and they smash things on the big rock with the little rock, right? So we've found big rocks that could be anvil rocks if these are what, if these are nutcracking stations. We have found rocks on top of other rocks. Sometimes there's really old remnants of shells. I've not found one nearly as good as that first one, where literally there were broken shells of nuts under the hammer rock that were not completely,

you know, they were, you know, I don't know how long they've been there, but they weren't totally decomposed. I've not found one nearly as good as that first one. But we've found, yeah, we sometimes will find something that might be a nut cracking station, but they're not in a good enough condition to say for sure that that's what they are. When we were actually the first time we went down that road with the lows now that I think about it, we found a nut cracking station literally, I don't even know if it was 10 feet off the road. And it was a good one. It was, again, it was the hammerstone. There were nuts underneath the stone. We saw it from the vehicles as we were driving in. So we stopped and showed it to the lows. That might actually be in the show now that I think

about it. But that was actually a really good one too. And it was right next to the road, which, you know, weird that they would be sitting there. But again, hardly anybody goes down that road except for maybe the odd ATV or Overlander, and you can hear them coming from a pretty far way off. So, yeah, so there's, we find a couple of those. Gotcha. But not a super good, not a super good one in the last couple of years, unfortunately. But I'm always looking. I'm always looking for those. Has there been anything ever that's anything weird that's happened or doesn't fit in the paradigm of how you guys view this creature?

And you're kind of like, I don't know how we deal with this, but hey, it happened and we got to make note of it. Not that I can think of. We've seen some weird lights in the woods down there that I have no reason to believe that they're necessarily apilated. But we've seen some weird lights down there. That is not uncommon. People see lights in the woods, especially in the southeast for some reason.

So that has happened. There was, in fact, a couple of years ago, maybe 2021, something like that. A couple of the guys in the group actually sort of watched this light move along down a road. They followed it. They can see it like illuminating the trees as it moved along. Now, some people in the group think that might have been an ape with extraordinarily bright eyeshine, but there was just the one light. It wasn't like a set of eyes.

So I don't know. I didn't see it myself. So I don't know what to make of it, but multiple people saw this illumination. They saw this light. And like I said, some people have interpreted that to be eyeshine, maybe of an ape where one of its eyes was injured or something. But I don't know that we can say for sure what that was.

But it was persistent. It was moving along the ground. up and over, you know, the terrain. And yeah, they observed that for quite a while. That would be the closest. I mean, the other than that, everything that I've experienced in those valleys, I attribute to apes. And they are all vaguely ape-related, like, you know, throwing of rocks and, you know,

tree knocks, which are pretty common in the area, you know, displays with, you know, shaking foliage or breaking foliage, the vocalizations that we hear, pretty much everything else, I would say, is pretty classically ached. The light thing is bizarre. I don't know how to say, I don't know what to do with that. I have no idea what's, but, you know, and again, we saw that one and then the next year, we saw other lights further away, but again, lights in the trees, no clue what those are, no idea whatsoever. There's so many different ways you can put that, and then there's some really interesting research being done in science right now. That's a whole different topic.

But from what you've seen in the valley that you're in, do you think that there could be whole family groups there or perhaps just adult males? I think that's definitely what we're saying. There's this concept in biology of refusiums where animals will go. They feel safe enough to reproduce and have their young. And I think that's what we're looking at. in area X, I think that there's definitely little eights being made there, both in, like I said,

we often see them in pairs. People often see two eight, one of which is usually much larger than the other one. My first visual in the valley actually was of two eights. Neither of them were, the larger of the two was not so big. It wasn't like a seven or eight foot tall animal, but it was, it was definitely it was all of six feet but the other one was smaller than that and and they're in the other group there have been visuals of of small animals like chimp sized animals so i i think it's definitely the case that they're reproducing in there what their what their social structure is i wish i knew i i think that there's definitely just just based on what i'm seeing i think that there are there must be a pairing that happens, either for a while or maybe longer than that.

But again, we see animals two different sizes. Maybe the smaller one is the female, the larger one is the male. But I definitely feel that there is some kind of social structure and these animals are being together. Now, that isn't to say we haven't seen individuals. And I think that it could be the case that for a lot of people who see individual AIDS, those could very well be sort of rogue males, quote unquote. The animal that we tagged when I was in the old group, that one had a pretty wide range. Was that one a male that was just sort of like, you know, doing the rounds, so to speak?

I guess I wish I knew more about that. It's one of the things that I spend the most time thinking about when I'm out there, as I would love to know how they structured themselves. because they're primates, they clearly have a hierarchy. They have some kind of social structure because all primates do. So I would love to know more about it. I do think that it is very telling, though, that we see them often in pairs, often enough that they're clearly pairing up in there and moving around together in pairs.

That's definitely happening. So I think that there's some kind of pairing that's taking place. Whether or not those are, you know, mother offspring pairings that we're seeing, I think sometimes they are. sometimes though the larger animal is so large that I think it must be a large male so anyway that's that's the best I can say about that I definitely see pairs and I think they are pairing up in there for for reasons of reproduction gotcha what do you think it would take to start to get at least an outline of what their social structure would be I mean we need like a you know Diane of the wood apes. I mean, someone who can I I don't know that they would ever

allow humans to observe them the way that we've observed other great apes. I just don't know that's ever going to happen with wood apes with Bigfoot. But I think that's what it would take. I was talking a clip about this, Cliff Berekman, when I was with him last

week. And they have their, they're tracking, literally tracking. They have this area that they're working where they're seeing two sets of tracks again and again and again and again. And one is larger and one is smaller. And they have sort of perceived that to be, you know, a young one with an older one, maybe a mother and an offspring. Bigfoot Society will be right back after these messages. Let's go, girls. So you've been taking one of these little pink pills daily? Yeah. And you feel. Uh-huh. And more. More? Huh. I didn't think we could feel like.

like that again at our age. Oh, get ready, girl. Ooh, la, la. Man, I feel like a woman. Meet Addie, the little pink pill. Addie is a prescription medicine for women under 65 with hypoactive low sexual desire disorder that's distressing to them.

Addie is for low desire that happens in all situations and isn't caused by a medical condition, relationship issues, or medicines. Addie isn't for men or to enhance sexual performance. Addie can cause severe low blood pressure and fainting. Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose. Don't take Addie if you have liver problems.

Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addy, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy, or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth. Learn more at Addy.com, including important warnings. Use coupon code IHeart for a $10 telemed appointment at adi.com. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job.

for Indeed's sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing

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Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. The next time you're at the checkout register, look for the balloon. Because the donation to Children's Miracle Network has the power to change lives.

Children's Miracle Network supports 170 children's hospitals across the United States and Canada. These nonprofit hospitals provide care for all kids, from routine checkups to life-changing treatments. So look for the balloon and make a big change for a kid near you. Learn more at cmn.org. So it's not unique to X, but I think that the, you know, Tracks might be one way to try to perceive what's going on there.

I honestly, the theories that I've come up with, the sort of suppositions that I've developed, have just been because of all of the time that I've spent in there, and then hearing all of the accounts of the people I know and trust and have heard their accounts of what they've seen and experienced in there. So I think that the best way that we're going to sort of crack that nut, so to speak, is to just invest a lot of time in there. Because I don't think they're gonna let you watch them. There isn't gonna be like a troop of gorillas,

a mountain gorillas that'll let you like sit there and watch them do their thing and you know, to the extent that you can name them and all that kind of stuff. I don't think, I don't see North American WoodApes ever allowing that. But who knows? I mean, maybe if someone spends literally every day

in those forests and makes themselves available, who knows? Maybe at some point they would show themselves. You know, there are lots of witnesses out there who have these sort of, quote, unquote, habituation scenarios. And they say that the apes show themselves to them. So it could be that, you know, my thoughts on this are just tainted by what I've experienced. But it seems highly unlikely that we'd be able to have a scenario where we could actually observe them being sort of a social group together. I don't know if this ever going to happen.

Yeah. It sounds like there's no cameras you guys have set up or anything of that nature. No, I don't, I don't waste any time with cameras. Okay. And this is just the lesson, lesson I learned from the old group. Though, you know, I, in speaking to Cliff again, I have reason to believe that cameras will, can collect evidence. We've never, you know, no one's put out as many cameras as the NWAAC has over the years. and as far as I know, I'm not been in the group for four years now,

but as far as I know, they've got nothing to show for it. And all the time, the first time I went in there was on a camera maintenance trick, right? And that was after years of the group trying to get a picture of one. And they never got anything even remotely close to a picture or an eight with all of those cameras that they deployed. They deployed many, many more cameras after I left the group. And as far as I know, have never, you know, captured an image of one.

The apes, they avoid the cameras. My theory of the situation is that they can see into the infrared, and what these cameras do is emit very bright infrared flashes. If you've ever had a night vision device, which I have,

up to your eye and walked in front of a game cam, it's blindingly bright. I mean, it's not bright to our eyes, but if you can see me of the infrared, it's very, very bright. And what these cameras do is that they occasionally will sort of focus. They'll do an auto-focus thing every once in a while, and they'll flash their flashers, even if there's nothing there to see.

So I think that these animals know that these things are there. And I don't believe for a second they know what they do, but I think that they are smart enough to want to avoid the bright, flashy lights that hurt their eyes. And so my personal theory is that they avoid game cams because of the infrared lights that they emit. So that's a really long way to say, I don't waste my time with gain chance because I don't think, I don't think they're likely to collect data. Yeah, it makes total sense. Just as a weird offside, something I learned the other day is if you have a newer iPhone with face ID, it pretty much it's shooting out. You can see just you light up like the 4th of July when the phone is doing that.

It's crazy. Yeah, it covers your face in a grid because that's literally how it's identifying you is through the three-dimensional grid of these little IR pinpoints. Yeah, it is nuts if you see that through a night vision device. It is like this grid of little tiny pinpoints and lights. So if you think about that, when you're out in the woods and you open up your iPhone, you can't see it. But theoretically, an eighth might be able to see that you just like totally flashed your face with this IR light.

But yeah, that's how that's how face ID works. Exactly. The question I have, this is more for me. Just, you know, I'll have these conversations with people and we'll talk about Bigfoot. And these are, let's say these normal people, this is not on the podcast, right? And they'll be like, oh, yeah. Muggles, right. Yeah, exactly.

That's a great way to put it. They'll be like, oh, yeah, you have Bigfoot out in California, right? And I'll be like, well, actually, southeast Oklahoma is one of the craziest parts for Bigfoot. And they'll just look at me like I'm nuts. And exactly. What is the way that you explain why southeast Oklahoma is such a hotbed for Bigfoot down there? Well, I think, again, I think there's a couple of things that are working in its favor. I do think that these valleys being almost completely untouched from a development standpoint because they are so rugged and difficult to get into and do anything to.

I think that they are really great habitat for these animals to go into to do things like reproduce. I think that the big difference between Southeast Oklahoma and say almost anywhere in the Pacific Northwest is that the population density, like humans, is so much lower in Southeast Oklahoma. Outside of like there are some touristy towns where people go, you know, to do touristy things. But there's not a lot of people in Southeast Oklahoma. It's pretty sparsely populated. So again, you're not dealing with a huge population of people that might sort of drive the animals away. I also don't know that they have that many places to go to. So I think that there's fewer human beings, which might make the apes feel more comfortable there.

I think that the habitat is extraordinarily rugged, which means that they feel like they can go to places and do what they need to do to perpetuate their species. And there's a lot of rainfall, right? There's a lot of water. It's basically a rainforest. They get a lot of rain in the southeast, in the Washington. There's just a lot of waterfall. And we also know, I mean, John Green did this research, I think, first, that if you overlay rainfall over a map of where people see apes,

there's a pretty high correlation between how much water's coming out of the sky over the course of a year and the likelihood that someone's going to see an ape. So there's some of my theories. I mean, I think that what I think a lot of people, when I'm talking to people like you're describing, they, you know, I literally have had the conversation. I literally have had this conversation where someone has said like, well, how can everyone be seeing that same ape? Like, well, that same big flip. Like, well, it's not just one. Come on.

It's a population, right? But, you know, northern Minnesota has a great number of sightings. Ohio has a great number of sightings. you know, there's, wherever there's forest, wherever there's habitat and food and rain, people see them. And so I think that even though they are sort of in the popular culture really closely related with the Pacific Northwest, if you're in southeast and Oklahoma, they are totally in the culture down there too. You will see them in every store. You will see, you know, the ho-nubby bigfoot whatever it is that they do down there,

their conference and their festival, whatever they call it, is right smack dab in the middle of the whole thing down there. Those people know about apes. They're in the culture down there just as much as they are in the Pacific Northwest. The only problem is there aren't as many people that live in the southeastern Oklahoma. So regular people outside of that area don't know about it. There are people in Oklahoma that don't even know there are mountains in Oklahoma. I have a really good friend who lives in Tulsa, Tulsa,

which is like just north of the Washajas. She didn't even, I told her I was going down to camp in the mountains in Oklahoma. She had no idea the mountains were there. I mean, they're just, it's this weird little pocket where, like, there just isn't a lot of attention being paid to it outside of a few people that live. Has there been an experience where if you tell, I'm just going to say, if you tell muggles, they'll look at you like you're straight up crazy. Because I already have those myself.

I'm just curious if you have one where it's like, if I tell this person, this one thing, it's going to blow their mind and then I won't be able to talk to them ever again. Yeah, for sure. The first thing that comes into mind, there was a time that my friend Rich and Darrell Collier, who was in the NNWC, we were all in NNWC at the time, Rich and Daryl and I were sitting around camp, and it was sort of typical standard operating procedure in the group to be in a dark camp, So we didn't have a campfire going.

We didn't have lights going. We just wanted to sit in the dark because we feel that the apes feel more comfortable getting close to us when it's dark. So we had this experience where Rich, with his naked vision, because he has these incredible eyes, he can see in the dark almost, he saw eyeshine of an animal that was up in a tree, that climbed up a tree, the trunk of the tree and was like peering down at us. and he could see the animal's eye shine. I could not see it. I don't think Darrell or I, either of us, could see it with our naked eye, but when I got my night vision out,

I could see through the night vision. I could see these two little pinpoints of light that were the eye shine of this animal. And then we got the thermal out. And it was like, boom, there's an animal. There's the side of its head. It's a little round head. It was like looking after the tree.

And it was holding under the tree. I could see on the, from where I was standing, its head was coming out of the left side of the tree. and then on the right side of the tree I'm sorry, its head was coming out of the right side of the tree from my perspective and on the left side of the tree I can actually see its fingers gripping the side of the tree and I can see them moving

as it was sort of repositioning itself or holding onto the tree like I had that it was that much detail and I came back and so this is crazy we had this like all three of us saw this animal through naked eyes through night vision and through thermal this this encounter went on

for like a man it was I mean, it was a good 10 minutes that thing was sitting there looking at us. And we were trying to play cool. You know, we wanted this to continue as long as possible. I came back and told that story to somebody exactly as I just told it to you. Like, you know, this thing was that, you know, the eyes had eyes shine. I could see its fingers. I could see its little round head poking around.

And I was telling this person I work with and she's like, couldn't have been a bear. I'm like, no, it couldn't have been a bear? What about, what did I just describe to you? What if that sounds like a bear? So pretty much everything that has. happens to me down in the valley. And it isn't necessarily the individual stories, but it's like the weird, sheer volume of stories. After a while, people just sort of like, they either get really excited, you know, and they want to hear more, or they just sort of like back away slowly.

That's been my experience. And I would say more people back away slowly than get excited about it. Almost every encounter I've had in there, you know, except for the really quick visuals, you know, that first week I was talking about when I went in there and had all that crazy stuff happen. That was just day after day after day of really intense. Let's go, girls. You know what I love about Addy? Everything? Well, yeah, but it's as little as $20 a month.

Ooh, well, the little pink pill has always been a pretty big deal. A really big deal. I'd call that a good investment. Che-chang. Man, I feel like a woman. Meet Addie. The Little Pink Pill. Addie is a prescription medicine for women under 65 with hypoactive low sexual desire disorder

that's distressing to them. Addie is for low desire that happens in all situations and isn't caused by a medical condition, relationship issues, or medicines. Addie isn't for men or to enhance sexual performance. Addie can cause severe low blood pressure and fainting. Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose. Don't take Addie if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients.

Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy, or breastfeeding. Side effects may include. dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, dry mouth. Learn more at Addy.com, including important warnings. Eligible patients-only restrictions apply. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse?

Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get nethered. No traction.

Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time. More results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves. at Indeed.com slash podcast.

Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. In the blink of an eye, a children's hospital can go from a place you've never heard of to the place your whole world depends on. Children's Miracle Network raises funds for 170 children's hospitals across the United States and Canada.

These hospitals provide care for all kids, whether it's helping them recover from life-changing events or treating lifelong conditions. Visit CMN.org to see how Children's Miracle Network is making big change for all kids. Ape interaction, and you can't tell someone that story. They just think you're crazy. They just think you're nuts. Because in a regular person's life, they have no room for, for, you know, for Bigfoot. They have no room for wood apes. They have no place. They have no frame of reference to understand how vast the forests in North America are. They have no frame of reference for these animals and how they could exist. They don't know anybody who's ever seen one. So when you come out and you say like I've seen them, you know, 11 times, that there's just like there's no, that just doesn't compute. So they're either going to be the kind of person who is curious and wants to know more, they not necessarily believe. you, but they're curious and they want to know more, or more likely they're just going to shut you down.

They're just going to like push you in a little box in their mind of like a crazy person and leave you there. I think that's a very, very good way to put that. I found that a lot of the reports that come from that area of Oklahoma are aggressive reports. Do you think there's a reason why that tends to be for that area, or do you think maybe they're just hyped up? I think, yeah, I've heard that before, that, you know, sort of the rep that apes have in the southeastern part of the United States is that they're more aggressive. I think part of that is that the people might be more aggressive, you know, it's far more likely that someone in the woods in Oklahoma

or Texas or Louisiana or someplace like that, it's way more likely that that person is going to be armed and have the ability to be aggressive if they feel threatened, then, it is for someone in Northern California or Oregon or Washington. There's just like the culture is very different. Having spent time in both of these areas, the people are very different. The people in the southeastern part of the country are just, I think, more likely to be aggressive themselves. And there have been instances, even, you know, inside these groups that I've been part

of, where a person being aggressive towards an ape has led the ape to be aggressive back to them. And so I don't necessarily buy that the apes are more aggressive, but I do think that their interactions with humans might be a little more amped up just because the people are, I think, more inclined to feel like they can be aggressive back. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm not trying to like stereotype anyone, but I mean, just knowing people from both parts of the country, it seems way more likely to me that. that someone in Oklahoma or Texas or Louisiana or one of those states is going to be more in the face of the ape than someone who lives in Northern California. And so I think some of it is just a response. And again, the few times when I was in the NAAC where I feel like the apes were potentially very dangerous and demonstrating,

some real aggression. The human being involved was also demonstrating some aggression. So I think that it's just more likely the case that the people down there are willing to push a little harder. That's just a theory. But in my experience, I don't feel that the apes down there are aggressive or particularly dangerous. I mean, all wild animals are dangerous, right? I mean, any wild animal above the size of a rabbit could be dangerous. But I don't think that they're necessarily aggressive. If anything, they're pretty standoffish. I don't think they really want to engage human beings that way, but I think they will.

And that this is another part of the question that I have about their social structure. Because I think some animals will engage and show sort of a threat display or be aggressive in protection or trying to draw attention away from other animals in their troop or in their social structure. So I think that's also something that happens. I can think of a couple of instances where that may have been the case over the years in both of the groups. So I don't know. I've heard that lots of times.

I think I went down there assuming that those animals were more aggressive because I think that's the rough that they have. But after having spent all the time that I have spent down there, I don't think they are. I don't think they're any more aggressive than they are anywhere else in the country. I think that's well said because I think everyone, has heard siege at Honabi and goes into that area. Exactly. That's exactly where my mind went.

Right. Right. And the siege at Honubi is exactly what I'm talking about. Like those guys were not putting up with those apes, right? And so those apes, I think, were responding. And, you know, I can think of a couple of instances in the old group where something happened, not nearly to the extent of what the seizure of henobie was, but the same kind of thing where we perceived the threat from the ape.

So we got big and blustery. And the ape did too, right? And so I think in the cases that I think of, and again, I just don't subscribe to the notion that these are fundamentally dangerous animals. I don't subscribe to the notion that they are, that they have in their minds or they're trying to be a threat to human beings.

I don't think that's true, but in the cases where this happened, like the seizure at Honubby, clearly the humans were part of why that went where it did, right? There was a lot of question on both sides. That makes sense. Brian, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to tonight. Thank you for spending some of your time. Is there a way that people can reach out to you? And I ask this just because I've gotten to the point where tons of people will ask me and

I kind of try to cut myself out as the middleman. You know, I'm on Instagram. That's probably the best way to do. I'm also on threads nine. The number nine, the word six and the number seven is my handle on Instagram and threads. That's probably the best way to get a hold of me. We don't really have a website for our group. That's how sort of casual it is. But yeah, so that's probably the best way to do it. I'm not on Twitter anymore and I'm not on Facebook. I mean, I am on Facebook, but I never go there. So I have a page there, but I never ever use it. So Facebook Messenger works. I actually have people reaching out to me via Facebook Messenger. So you can find me, Brian Brown on Facebook. So that's another way that they can reach out to me. Fantastic. I'll definitely be watching over the next few

years to see where the research of yourself and war goes. And thank you again for coming on the show. Oh, this is my pleasure. This is a lot of fun. I love talking about this stuff. And so I was happy to do it. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much. sure that you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following or know someone who has, please

reach out to me at Bigfoot Society at Gmail.com or pass on my email. Here's the list. If you've had any encounters in Oregon, which I'm sure there's probably a few of you out there, please feel free to reach out immediately. You can use email Bigfoot Society at Gmail. A special thank you to all the Bigfoot Society, Patreon and YouTube channel members. It's your support that helps keep the show going, and I extremely appreciate it. If you want to join in the fun, you can join over at patreon.com.

forward slash the Bigfoot Society. I'll see you there. And again, thanks for listening. Her and I can get on here. We can tell our stories. Maybe there's somebody else out there listening that's too afraid to tell their story. Maybe this will give them. the courage to come out and now I feel still bad about it.

Who cares what anybody's things? I know what I saw. I know what's out there. That's all I care about. Let people know. Please let them know. If you ever see one of these things, you need to tell. Because if you don't, then shame on you.

You know, shame on you. Let's go, girls. So this is the little pink pill everyone's been talking about. Yep, that's out. Good things do come in small packages. And Addie is definitely a good thing. Not just good, it's... Mm-hmm.

Ooh-la-la. Meow. Man, I feel like a woman. Meet Addie, the little pink pill. Addie is a prescription medicine for women under 65 with hypoactive low sexual desire disorder that's distressing to them. Addie is for low desire that happens in all situations and isn't caused by a medical condition, relationship issues, or medicines.

Addie isn't for men or to enhance sexual performance. Addie can cause severe low blood pressure and fainting. Your risk is higher if you drink alcohol close to your dose. Don't take Addie if you have liver problems. Take certain medicines or allergic to any of its ingredients. Before taking Addie, tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. If you have had any mental health conditions, are pregnant, planning pregnancy, or breastfeeding. Side effects may include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, trouble sleeping, and dry mouth.

Learn more at adi.com, including important warnings. Use coupon code IHeart for a $10 telemet appointment at adi.com. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for K. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for.

Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now.

Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. In the blink of an eye, a children's hospital can go from a place you've never heard of to the place. your whole world depends on. Children's Miracle Network raises funds for 170 children's hospitals across the United States and Canada.

These hospitals provide care for all kids, whether it's helping them recover from life-changing events or treating lifelong conditions. Visit cm.org to see how Children's Miracle Network is making big change for all kids. This is Danielle Fischel. And Ryder Strong from PodMeets World. As cat parents, Ryder and I know the feeling. of being ignored by our cats. I often wonder, does my cat even love me?

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most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending. Miracle grow organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over. Thanks to Miracle Grow. Join us next time on Plant Killers.