Bigfoot Society - The Tale of the Lizard Man of Scape Ore Swamp | Podcaster and Researcher | Jordan Heath

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

I was behind thrilled to have Jordan Heath from the Campfire: Tales of the Strange and Unsettling podcast back on for an extremely fun chat about the twisty tale of the Lizard Man of Scape Ore Swamp. Check out Campfire Podcast!https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/campfire-tales-of-the-strange-and-unsettling/id1577035566Join the only Facebook group for Van Meter Visitor fans - “Van Meter Visitor Believers” - See you there!https://www.facebook.com/groups/vanmetervisitorbelievers/?ref=shareFOR MORE INFO ON THE VAN METER VISITOR FESTIVAL:https://www.facebook.com/vanmetervisitorfestival/_____________________________Join us over on Patreon! Get access to a whole library of extended shows, exclusive merch like a membership card and stickers, watch me interview guests weekly live on video, a Patron-only Discord and more.https://www.patreon.com/thebigfootsocietyPick up a Bigfoot Society shirt to rep the podcast!https://www.etsy.com/shop/BigfootSocietyTune in for new episodes of Bigfoot Society!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Qq45W6iaTU8FE9kelxT7QIG: https://www.instagram.com/bigfootsociety/Full links: https://bit.ly/bigfootlinks

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Visit your nearby Lowe's on West Pico Boulevard in Los Angeles. And it listened to me. It walked out of thicket. It turned around and looked at me. It was a monkey man and the monkey man jumped down out of the tree. It started running away. And suddenly they're right in front of the car. He slams on the bright.

and manage to stop and you're skidding because it's like quite, you know, and gravelling. And literally for about a second and a half, they just stood there because they don't know where to go and you tell them, panic, you know, like, their face is like twitching. Welcome back to Bigfoot Society, a podcast where we focus on cryptids, the strange and the unexplained of this world. If you've got a story or something weird to share, send an email over to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. And if you'd like to support this show, head on over to patreon.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. And now on with the show.

All right, Bigfoot Society. I've got the pleasure of bringing back on the show, Mr. Jordan Heath from Campfire Tales of the Strange and Unsettling podcast. How's it going, Jordan? It's going so well. I'm super psyched to be here. Dude, it's it's always fun to chat with you and you guys are so good. If people have not, I'm just going to talk about Campfire for a few minutes.

If you guys have not had the opportunity to listen to Jordan's podcast Canfire, you need to definitely take that opportunity. It's got meaningful discussion about, you know, you do research into weird legends, lore, cryptids, but also it in, the episode you make you craft this like audio drama and it's just you know of course my favorite episode is a van meter visitor one but like they are all super good super intense and uh you know one of my favorite uh podcast right now for ones that cover not just cryptids but like legends lore weird stuff it's so good dude that's yeah thank you for the kind words that's it's always nice to hear yeah dude so what have you been uh what's you've been up to lately, Jordan.

Oh, man. Well, since this is airing in November, I can, this is like time travel. Yeah. Time travel, Jordan is coming from the middle of October, and it's like the busiest month of my life right now. So Campfire normally releases two episodes a week on the main feed. and one episode a week, well, one episode alternating. So one week, it's one episode on Patreon. The next week, it's two episodes.

Wow. That's our normal schedule. But this month, it's been four episodes, three episodes on the main feed, two episodes on the Patreon every single week. Holy mackerel. And that's not including this last week. We released a community collaboration project. So we had six episodes we did in the last seven days.

I think community, I mean, that is a way to put it. But, I mean, the amount of names you had in that one project seems like that must have been an intense undertaking. Yes. Just to herd all those cats together and do whatever you did with it. How is that process getting everyone together? I was incredibly proud. I still am. I'm incredibly proud of that project because we brought people in from literally every part of the like paranormal community.

We had like people that do not that you don't normally see together, right? People, I mean, we had people like Mothboy Matt on the same podcast. as like we're both having dog problems here. Can I just point out how we both have dogs going nuts in the background, which is amazing. Yeah. This is like this is what Bigfoot Society is all about. I love it. Keep going, man.

We're good. Okay. So we had people like Mothboy Matt from the Mothboys podcast on the same project as like Lawn Strickler and Joshua Cutchin. And like, I mean, it, it was incredible. We have like, you know, Jeremy. me vainy on on this project he's you know a former UFO abductee who's you know turned to research and like man it just blew me away the response we got because i sent out about well a big okay so vuk from tracing from the tracing house podcast he had a big hand in it too um he and i sent together

were probably about 60 emails to people. And I was expecting, you know, we might get like 10 or 15 people that are like, oh, yeah, I'll do this. We ended up with 30 submissions. So we ended up with, it's an hour and 47 minutes of people from all over the community just talking about the language they use, why they use it, why certain words mean certain things to them. It's, I mean, yeah, I'm proud of it, man.

That is incredible. And if we, man, just think if that level of preparedness got put into other projects in the community. I mean, and that sounds like it could almost not live as just an audio podcast, but maybe, and I don't want to, you know, put things out there that shouldn't be. but it sounds like it could be another form of media as well, maybe someday. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I would love to. I mean, I try to apply that level of dedication to everything I do.

Definitely. I can't always get there, but, you know, because I have a lot of irons in the fire all the time. But this thing was awesome. I've listened to it twice since we released it. Like, I'm just still my, I'm blown away by like, Just all the people and the way it's laid out, the way like one clip leads to the next one and they kind of work together and you're like building to this, you know, crescendo. We had the guys from belief hole podcast. They, they were on it and they submitted like I gave them the prompt and they were like, yeah, this is cool.

This sounds interesting, which I was floored by that they were into it in the beginning, in the, in the, first place because I'm a huge fan of those guys. And I was expecting we told them like, you know, submit like a three to five minute clip is what we were suggesting. They sent me a 13 minute clip that they said they cut down from a half hour. And you're like, give me the whole half hour. I want to hear it. I'll hear the whole thing for myself. But like, yeah, I was just, I love how it was received by the community.

and when we released it, the amount of like sharing and support and people were like proud of being a part of it. And yeah, that was like a heartwarming moment for me for sure. Dude, heck yes. And so if that sounds interesting to you at all, which it should definitely head over.

I'll have some links in the show notes of this episode for the Can't Fire podcast. And you can check all that good stuff out. Remember, it's important to support creators. And you can do it as easily as just downloading the podcast and listening to it. It's crazy how that works. But I appreciate the hard work that you guys go in to crafting what you do weekly.

And, you know, people need to, let's just say Jordan's a busy dude with many dogs and many other. You've got so many spinning plates going on and yet you still, you know, are able to make a quality product that both of you. So hats off. But the main reason that I was able to, that I asked you to come on today is I was, you know, I was like,

man, I want to do an episode where we really chat about a cryptid in, in detail. And the other good thing, the other thing I like about Jordan is, you know, he's involved with Paranomality Magazine. And,

you know, you are usually the one that you're writing the articles, monthly about the different cryptids, correct? Yeah. Yeah. I do each month I try to cover ones that you don't hear about very often. You know, I feel like there are plenty of articles out there about Mothman and, you know, and Patty. And like those are, I try to, I go for the deep cuts.

Oh, yeah, which I appreciate, definitely. But so I was like, Jordan, you know, what? give me some ideas of ones that you might want to do. And he gave me a few of them. And we decided on talking about the... The lizard man of Skapor Swamp. Dude, and I was... That's fantastic because that's one.

I don't know a lot about myself, but people in my community that are into that cryptid, they bring it up all the time. They're really into it, which is a good sign of like a good, regional cryptic that people are into. So let's chat about this guy. What do we have going on with the lizard man, dude?

You know, the lizard man is a, it's one that I find fascinating because I'm, I'm kind of obsessed with this idea of small towns turning these cryptids into mascots, right? They've and Bishopville, South Carolina has, I believe it's called Lizard, Lizard Man Days, something like that. It's a, you know, it's a festival, a summer festival. Yes. Yeah. And I have never been, obviously, never been down there for that.

But so I'm not really sure if it's sort of just Lizard Man in namesake only and it's just a collection of food trucks. and you know what I mean and small rides because there's a lot of those. I get it. Yeah, which is it's a, you got to start somewhere and then you get the statue in. Yeah.

I mean, there's a big difference between Mothman Festival and like turtle days. Right. Like, are there turtle days too? Oh yeah. That's really for. Yeah,

that's for the Beast of Busco. Yeah. In Indiana, they have turtle days. And it's basically in, I mean, that whole town is is it's it's all oscar it's all that whole town there are signs everywhere there there there are turtle themed restaurants turtle themed diners and stores i mean he's everywhere

every park has like a turtle on the sign that's awesome it's yeah i love it but like the but the festival itself is basically it's just a normal midwest summer street fair okay and they it's just named after him. So I don't know if Lizard Mandase is more like that. I imagine it is more like that since you don't really hear a lot about it on like the the cryptozoology conference circuit, you know? Good point.

Yeah. I imagine there aren't a lot of like they probably don't call in speakers and and all that the way. I mean, I'd love for them to get to that. Every state should have one of those, right? They really should. I mean, if the,

the most important thing so far said in this episode is every state should have a cryptic-related festival. Yeah. And you could. Yeah. That's the thing. You could do something, man. Yeah. And there are so many, like, brilliant people out there that are looking for speaking engagements.

You know what I mean? That's true. There are plenty to go around. So, I mean, there are as many, there are as many liable. blackburns out there as there are, you know, states for sure. It's a good point. It's a good point. Yeah, because and especially with today's culture where we have access to so many, you know,

it's not just the people that write books anymore. It's there are, you know, people like immediately comes to mind like Asher's, where it's like Asher's could dominate any speaking and at any encrypted festival. Yeah. No questions asked. And I'm like, the day will come when that will happen. And I'll just, I'll feel so vindicated because I'm like, I've been saying for the last few years, it needs, ever since, you know, I met Asher's, I'm like, this needs to happen.

It needs. And it's, it's gradually starting to happen, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that woman is just like a level 20 barred. Like, it doesn't matter what she talks about. It's entertaining. You know, like, she could give a 30-minute symposium about.

toothpaste and it would be fun. Ash is great. Yeah. Ash is good. So definitely. And I think what goes in hand with that is figure out the weird stuff in your area and become the expert on it. There's no reason. There's no, you know, like I should know the most about the weird stuff in Iowa.

Like, you know, man, I don't want to docks anyone, but fill in the blank of random person. who lives in a random state, they should have to, they should be the expert of the weirdness in that, that area, you know. Yeah. So, because Lyle, there's been, there's been a few books written on the lizard man or is it just Liles? I know the famous one is Liles, right? I think there are a few.

There are quite a few. It kind of gained prominence again in the early 2000s, because most of the sightings come from the 80s, which is another thing I love. love about this story because that's, you know, you hear a lot, there are a bunch of sightings in the 60s, yeah, of course, right? Or you go way back to like the early 1900s. It seems like cryptids are one or the other. They're in like the 50s, 60s 70s or they're in the early 1900s. But I love that this one, most of the sightings happened. Yeah, in the 1980s. If data management is slowing down your business, you need the Intuit ERP.

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and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer. Only at Starbucks. So let's go through. So what kind of sightings, like what kind of adventures did the lizard man have in the 80s? Okay. So first off, this thing is, it was pretty uniformly described, but, all the people who who cited it. It was about seven feet tall. Red eyes. Classic. Some glowing, some not.

Three toes, three-toed feet, which is super rare for anything in the lizard family to have three toes. I believe, oh man, I know several people who are going to make fun of me if I get this wrong. but I think it's the oh there's one lizard one lizard who has three toes oh interesting yeah just one I'm trying to remember which one it was it's not the chameleon it's the gecko okay all right there's a free-toed variant of the gecko but yeah the um so that sets it aside first off. And of course, you know, the fossil record

doesn't include any lizards that have any humanoid features whatsoever. So that pretty much sets it aside as well. Okay. Yeah, so basically think,

like think of lizard man as the lizard version of dog man. That's basically how it's described. Oh, okay. Like remove all the canine features from dog man and replace them with reptilian features.

So does he have the same attitude? I mean, you'll find as we go through this that Lizard Man mostly seems to have a strange vendetta against cars. Oh, weird. Just like rampant vehicle damage in these stories. Yeah, it's weird. He's a bit of a public nuisance, the lizard man. a vandalizer this is quite the picture that's

being that's unfolding yeah so okay so as far as the legend goes the lizard man apparently swims in the water like a gator okay right and then it comes up on the bank and sort of like stands up you people don't realize that it's they think it's just like a big gator

until he stands up which is also very dogman. Yes. Where he just kind of blends into a pack of dogs and then you'll see him like stand up and light a cigarette. Like the wolf from the Texavory cartoon. Exactly.

That's how I always think of dog man. There you go. Because those are my favorite. Those are my favorite dog man sightings too, the ones that are just totally wild. Like he's carrying a baseball bat or something like that. Those are my favorite. But yeah, Lizard Man, mostly seen around the Bishopville area. The very first sighting, if you want to get into it.

All right. The very first sighting was in fall of 1987. Wow. Yeah. So I was about three months old when this sighting happened. George Holloman Jr. was writing his. bike home and he stopped to take a break on the side of the road and he spots quote a weird tree stump that's what he calls it i don't know what makes a tree stump particularly weird but it looks strange

to him and he starts walking toward it and suddenly the weird tree stump stands up and when he's about 30 feet away from it whoa yeah and it you know stands up to seven plus feet tall. So pretty intimidating. They're in the dark with nothing but your bicycle. This story makes me think of times when I, like, would ride my bike home at night. And I always lived in a rural area. Oh, absolutely, man.

Yeah, there were always those stretches of like, and you'd hear a dog bark. And you're like, oh, no. Like, this is it. Yeah, you immediately panic. Like, is that dog in a kennel or on a, Is it tied up or am I about to have to fight for my life? Yeah. Oh, same dude.

I experienced this, you know, I was, I'm a few years older than you. I would be about four years old when this story came. So we have, we have some similarities in what we experienced growing up, I'd say. Definitely. And you grew up in Iowa, right? Actually, so I grew up in Western Massachusetts. It's rural area, definitely, a ton of about 3,000. And so definitely experience that, you know, as you get older, you can, you know,

ride your bike to the library on the back roads. And when you're coming back, it's a little dark. Yeah, you start to hear stuff and you're like, get a little nervous. Time to go. Yep. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I grew up in what I affectionately refer to as the stray animal belt.

That is funny Everywhere Everywhere So yeah In these Oh go ahead Well Okay so he's

I was just going to go back into the siding Yes definitely So he starts walking toward the stump It stands up It's like seven plus feet tall And he freezes Obviously And then a car

comes down the highway and in the headlights from the approaching car he gets a good look at it yes and that's when he identifies these crazy features this like lizard like head and face these like the scale that he sees around its face and a tail which he says is what freaked him out the most but like because at first you know you could be like oh that's just a weird looking guy right but it turns to take off into the back into the tree line and he sees this massive tail wow yeah um and i can't help but picture like lizard from spider man that's it i'm i'm thinking of like old school batman anime series killer crock slash like terrible Ninja Turtles villain Oh, you know, like we're getting there.

You're clicking, yeah. Yeah, that's wild, dude. Yeah, this is a thing that would definitely hang out with Bebop and Rocksteady. Do a Bhop and Rocksteady. Yeah. The top. They were the tops. Team Lizard

Man is so, like, enraged, right? I know, I know. What's going on? So, And I can't wait to, you're saying that the stuff is coming where it starts messing with cars. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's coming.

It's coming. And I'm in just wait until we get to, oh, there's a woman who releases a photo later on. And we'll, yeah, we'll get there. All right. Okay. So the next side. So the story kind of gets spread. around this kid is a senior in high school when he sees it and the story kind of gets spread

around it becomes starts to become something of like a local legend right pretty quickly among you know among the youth and the following summer june of 1988 a younger kid who's a sophomore in high school at the time he is actually like he was a junior high school because he was driving. But he's definitely younger than George, the initial person. Christopher Davis. He's driving home from work late at night, and he has a flat tire. So he pulls off to the side of the road right next to, right next to Skapor Swamp.

And he's sitting there changing his tire. And he's just getting finished, changing the tire. He specifically says he had three of the five lug nuts tightened on. That's very specific detail. Yeah, he remembered specifically. That's where he was. Like, he was just like cranking the third lug nut completely tight. And he hears this like sort of rhythmic thumping coming from behind him.

Oh. And he turns around. And from this sort of wetland field area that's between him and the tree line of the swamp, he sees the lizard man sprinting toward him. What? Yes, in a full sprint straight toward him. Bipatally? Yes.

He said it's less than, he said it's less than 60 feet away from him when he spots it. And it's like cruising through it like, and he thinks that the thumping he heard was its tail hitting the ground. Wow. Like, yeah. It was like it's making tracks straight for him. So this is he also describes the glowing eyes.

The glowing red eyes. Yeah, I can't imagine a situation where I would be more terrified than that. That would, oh my goodness, that'd be scary stuff. Like you see a huge lizard running towards you and. glowing eyes and you're like, I got two more lug nuts. This is terrible timing. Exactly. He jumps in his car and he again, I don't know why he was so hyper-focused on these

lug nuts that night, but he remembers that he, when he reached for his car handle, he had the two remaining lug nuts still in the palm of his hand. Oh, thank goodness. It like, it kind of made him like fumble with the door handle. and he ended up dropping the lug nuts and just yanking the door open and he jumps in and just as he slams the door

lizard man the lizard man gets to the car like just I mean as horror movie as it gets right yeah dude like totally he just gets in and slams the door and he's there and

lizard man goes for the door handle he goes for the door handle he goes for the door handle. He's like scrabbling. He describes these like thick muscular fingers, these like three-toed sort of appendages, just like sort of fumbling and smashing up against where the door handle is on the car. Goodness.

Yeah. He starts the car and takes off. He said he gets up to like 40 miles an hour before he realizes that the lizard man is running beside the car. Terminator style, dude. Yes. Like Robert Patrick Alligators. Exactly. Oh my goodness.

Yeah. So this is where we find Lizard Man's top speed, I think. He's running 40 miles an hour beside this car. Then he dives over onto the roof of the car. Lizard Man is on the roof of this kid's car. He starts swerving left and right to try to shake the lizard man off of his car. This is amazing. And he takes out a knife and he's like,

knifing the top of the, and he's like dragging himself across the car. Okay, so. So good. He does describe the seeing the clawed hand again reach down, like into the windshield area while he's on top, right? Okay. But he finally shakes the thing off of his car.

He says it like, he hears it slide, like, across the roof of the car as it goes. It goes off the side of the car into the ditch and he just keeps going. Smartest move all night. Yeah, it's a smart move. Yeah, yeah, it is. If it was actually a horror movie, he would stop and go make sure it was dead. And then that's when he gets murdered in a ditch.

Oh, my goodness. But yeah, he goes home. He actually tells his dad about it immediately. Hmm. He goes in, tells his dad about it. And I don't, there's really. no report about whether his dad thought his kid had lost his mind. Okay.

Or if, you know, but and he just, the dad kind of puts a lid on it. He's like, he's like, just keep it, keep this to yourself. Just don't. Yeah. Yeah. And then over the next couple months, the dad has a friend who works in the police, in the Bishopville police. And over the next month or so, yeah, over the next month or so, the,

reports start coming in of cars being torn up people come out they're coming out and they're finding their cars like sort of vandalized in these weird ways like like bumpers look like they've been chewed on oh weird and like antenna's snapped off and fenders ripped there's like tear marks and you know like if data management is slowing down your business you need the Intuit ERP. If one entity is here and one here, and one here, and one here, you need the Intuit ERP. If scaling your business feels like start starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI-native ERP solution that consolidates, migrates, and automates,

all in one place. Learn more at intuitt.com slash ERP. Hi, Diva. It's Rachel. And Jordan, yeah, hi. Quick question. you're not spending your Venmo balance. Yeah, we're concerned. You can like buy stuff with it. Oh, you love buying stuff. And earn cashback on eligible purchases. You love purchasing eligible things. So the money your friends sent you yesterday, that's today's ramen or ridechair or eyepatches. The skincare kind, not the pyrokind. Spin with Venmo. And you can earn cashback with Vimmo Stash. Vimmo's bundle terms and exclusions apply. Max $100 cashback per month. See terms at VINMO.com. ID verification required to use a Vimmo balance.

The Starbucks iced torchata shaken espresso was back for the summer. Crafted with cinnamon, vanilla, and nutty notes of toasted rice. Handshaking was smooth blonde espresso and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer. Only at Starbucks. The classic Twilight Zone episode where after the plane lands, they find the panel and it looks like it's been like torn apart by an animal. They're finding things like this on cars. man like hoods that have been kind of like sections have been shredded and like wiring's been

just ripped at inside the motor oh that's intense dude yeah so these reports start coming in and the dad of christopher who had the action movie sequence with lizard man um the dad comes for he encourages his son to come forward at that point because all these other reports that he's hearing about. Wow. Yeah. And that's when he makes like his his statement. It's just a couple months after it happened. Um, one of those, one of those, um, situations that inspired him to just let it go or let his son talk about it was a couple named Tom and Mary way. And they, everything I said before, that's how they find their car. But, They also find clumps of red hair.

Oh, weird. Sort of like in the in the damage. It's like sort of matted into the damage of the car, right? And they, the police send it to a lab to be, you know, to be tested. And they find that it's canine. It's, it's dog hair. And they're sort of confused about that. But then they find that that, or they find that same day that in the field,

the neighboring field to Tom and Mary's property, they found a cow and a coyote dead from an animal attack. Oh, wow. Yeah, that same day. So, you know, supporters of the lizard man being the, being the culprit here would tell you that, Um, it went and killed this cow and this coyote and it just sort of had some coyote fur that got transplanted to, you know, then they hit the, it hit the car afterward and left

some fur behind. Um, but you know, that, that seems like a, a stretch to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, that's wild. Yeah. It's, it's weird. It's weird. the next month in August, the sheriff of Bishopville, his name's Truesdale, he sort of gets the word out because he's like, okay, some weird stuff is going on.

So we need to like sort of test the where, see where the community's at on this. So he gets the word out. And he finds that people all over Bishopville have been having like weird bouts of vandalism to to their vehicles in varying degrees. right like a lot dozens and dozens of citizens from Bishopville have had their cars

messed with that's wild like yeah ranging from these like huge destruction like your car's totaled wow you know just weird little things like the antenna is snapped off or you know

the door is ajar the next day weird stuff like that it sounds like the lizard man was out for revivary You think so? Yeah, he got mad because a car escaped him and he's like, I'm going to track down every, if I have to take out every car in order to get back to this kid, I'm going to do it. Right?

Like, the kid threw me off his car. Yeah. It's, um, okay, so after all that, the police take the position that this is a bear. A bear, huh? Yes. Okay. that a bear is nice to work guys

is on the loose a bear an invisible one and then they hold that position for weeks until they find a footprint and they cast

the footprint okay there is a cast of this footprint it's three toes with claws at the end of each toe it's 14 inches long man

Yeah. That's a big footprint. Yes, it is. They have local biologists from the university examine it and they, you know, they categorize it as unidentifiable. But the guy who is in charge of, you know, the biologist that he had his team look at it, he goes and talks to the paper and tells them that like he gets. a little more detailed than I think he would in official writing. You know what I mean? Okay.

He talks about like he's confident that this isn't a classified animal that's that's experienced mutation. He's confident that no animal that they're aware of could have made this footprint. Like he gets a little more colorful with it with the newspaper. So I think he was probably a lizard man advocate. Yeah, I'm getting, I'm starting to get weird vibes. Yeah, he's a weird. I got weird feelings from him too when I was doing the research. Like, I don't know if maybe he was just enjoying a little spotlight, you know, and wanted to play it up.

And nothing bad about the dude. Yeah. He's still alive. But I'm not just saying, hey, I'm getting weird vibes. That's all right. Yeah. Definitely. Okay.

So then the weird, the really weird thing happens at the tail end of the 80s. It's summer of 1989, they start getting lots of reports of howling and screeching coming in at night, like loud. Like it's people are hearing it over their televisions in their living rooms and going outside to see what is going on. The police and they come. out they investigate they find tree branches snapped off at like eight feet high okay they find smashed fences smashed um sheds in people's backyard um and they find more three-toed footprints in fact

there's this trail that's like they now do sort of a tour of this trail for the lizard man days Oh, okay, that's cool. You can take a tour. They find these three-toed footprints, and they follow the footprints 900 feet into the swamp. Wow. That's how far they track this thing before they lose, you know, they lose the trail. And you can walk that, that 900-foot trail now at Lizard Man Days, which is pretty cool. Yeah.

Yeah. But they lose it, and reports just kind of taper off in the, late eight right there early 90s they start tapering off there's like scattered stuff that you know it's really a stretch to connect but then in the fall of 2005 about the time i was graduating high school they come back you get you start getting reports again october 2005 a woman in newberry which is one town over from Bishopville, has this incredible sighting where she spots two lizard men

in her backyard. Dos lizardo men. That's right. Two lizard men in her backyard and she stands behind her screen door and watches them rip the roof off of her chicken coop. And they're just plucking chickens out of this chicken coop and eating them live.

Just like chicken nuggets style. Yeah, exactly. Oh my goodness. She says finally she has a wooden cooking spoon and she like slaps it against the doorframe. The lizard men both turn to the noise. One of them grabs one more chicken out of the chicken coop and sticks it under his arm and they both run for the tree line. I'm there for the hills.

Yeah. Do you remember the old school Super Mario Brothers movie? Yes. Do you remember what the Coupas look like? Yeah. I'm kind of like that's, I'm also getting imagery there of that too. Yeah. That's that's.

Dude, that's wild. Yeah. It's a crazy sighting. Oh, my goodness. And you said that was around 2005, you said. Yeah, that was October of 2005. Wow. Okay, that's wild because I, like, now it's like, I'm, I can vividly remember 2005.

Like, this is, time, time is weird like that, you know? Yeah, it's modern, modern times. Are we at the point where there could be discussion or is there still more to unveil? Maybe. Yeah, there's a couple more. Okay, okay. I have questions, but I will wait. We're going to get even more modern.

So three years, three years later in April of 2008, Bob and Dixie Rosen, they have, they're kind of like the people who feed all the neighborhood stray cats, right? They're used to like, they pour food on their back porch and they're used to seeing like 10 or 15 cats come up and eat, right? So these cats start just vanishing. Like, you know, it's 15 on Monday. it's eight on Wednesday. It's three or four by the weekend. They're like, something's going on with the neighborhood cats.

And then finally, they come out in the morning and just like the couple back in the 80s, they find their car is basically destroyed. Wow. Like hood is peeled up. The fenders are like ripped apart. Tires have bite marks in them. Like,

it's intense. And, there's blood smeared all over the hood of the car. Like this looks like a legitimate crime scene, right? So they run back in their house. They call the police. They, the police show up and they search the property and they find,

and like, spoiler alert for dog lovers, it gets pretty gross, but they find it. It gets pretty wild. All right. Yeah. They find.

I can explicit tag it. That's fine. Okay. Yeah. So they find a pile of dead dog parts. Oh, no. In these people's backyard right at the back of their property. Like half eaten.

Like it's obviously the result of predation, right? But like, it's bad. Goodness. It's bad. Then when they test the blood on the car, they ultimately, they find that it's from the dogs. Right. So a lot of people definitely put. this in the lizard man category.

Okay. Yeah, that one's gross. Oh, my goodness. Now it's hitting close to home. I mean, you heard the dogs on both of our mics earlier. Yeah. Yeah, I'm definitely a dog lover. And that's, yeah, that's rough.

I can't imagine. Then, okay, even farther, seven years, 2015. Oh, no, dude. Yes. 2015. Oh, August of 2015. This woman named Sarah Barra, she releases this wild photograph that she supposedly took outside of her church. It is, I mean, and if you Google to the listeners, if you Google lizard man of Skate Boar Swamp, this is the photo.

I think I can picture this, yeah. Okay. So it is undoubtedly a guy in a lizard suit. Undoubtedly, like, it looks like, it legitimately looks like a monster that the Power Rangers would fight. Like, it is, it really does. Like, sculpted muscles. It's super ripped. It like, you know, all the like, all the, the artist, like the drawings of dog man. Right. Where it's like, it's just these like perfect Adonis abs and chest and like, which is kind of weird, right? But yeah, that's a whole different discussion about psychology, I think. Yeah. But that's how that's the version of this.

this version of Lizard Man. He's just like, and he's like, in the photo, he's like walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. So while this photo is absolutely fake, there's no deny. I mean, you can see like the plastic red eyes sticking out of the side of the headpiece and all that. Yep. Right.

It's obviously fake. I think what's important about this is that it inspires actual people. to come forward. Because it hits the news and it sort of spreads, you know, it like brings the story back to life kind of. Wow. One of those people is a guy who

who eventually sent a video clip that he had taken a couple years prior into the news channel. And the video is, I mean, it's right there with like sort of the standard Bigfoot video you'll get, right? Okay.

where it's it's very blurry. It's like in the distance. You can't really, but there is a moment where whatever it is turns and you can see like the protrusion that might be a tail, right? Wow. And see, I've always like come out in favor of, I like hoaxes.

I think they do good things. They do bad things also, but I think. Sure. People overlook the benefits of it, which is that I think it inspires people to, I mean, personally, my views on the phenomenon in general is that it inspires actual experiences to occur when you put people in the mind frame. Oh, I get what you're saying. Okay. Yeah, that's really interesting. That's an interesting viewpoint. Sure. Yeah. If data management is slowing down your business. You need the Intuit ERP. If one entity is here and one here and one here and one here, you need the Intuit ERP.

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Dive into juicy guapa and passion fruit flavors. With mango pineapple popping pearls bursting in every sip. Ice cold, instantly refreshing and impossible to put down. Made for summer only at Starbucks. But regardless, there's, that's pretty much, that's pretty much it. Wow. There are a few people more, a few people more, a few. more people come forward in the like mid teens with pretty pretty standard experiences it's a lot of

people seem to it's either the car vandalism the dead pets or it's they'll spot this thing and then once the thing realizes that it's been spotted it takes off like it doesn't seem to be interested in in contact with people. Wow. And so there's never been anything found where it's like, oh, old man Jeffers came out and he had a set of three towed tracks. He wasn't using all along. Nothing like that. No, it's not like Delaware is Selbyville Swamp Monster.

Or like the penguin tracks down in, you know, that thing. Wow, that's surprising, man. Man, yeah, 2015. That is crazy. Do you think it's the, so what do you think? Do you think it's a real thing? I think it's a hoax that's stretched from 87 to 15. Man.

Okay. I don't think that a humanoid lizard has somehow managed to evolve alongside humanity without being noticed. Right. I don't think that's what's going on here. I think honestly what I think is that there are people who live in the swamps that do not want to be messed with. Sure. Yeah. They don't want anyone near their homes.

They don't want people fishing their fishing spots. They don't, you know what I mean? And my best guess is that playing the lizard man in a homemade gilly suit worked. worked for the folks back in the 80s, and then their kids remembered that it worked in the early 2000s, and they ran it again. That's cool. Yeah, that's why you could have multiple generations doing this prank on the town,

really. Yeah. Like, it could be like O'Doyle rules with. Yeah, exactly. Yes, exactly. Oh, dude, it's such a cool story. It feels like it would make a really good movie.

There's been no like movies based on this or anything, right? No. I can't think of any. Not that I've seen. There have been a couple documentaries. Okay. But pretty, you know, pretty like low budget takes on it where they're just kind of talking to people. And yeah.

You check that out. This also reminds me a lot of the Honey Island Swamp Monster. Sure. Which gets put more in the Bigfoot category, more in the Sasquatch category. but it also had three toes, a three-toed footprint. Exactly. Yep, yep. And it, you know, lived in the swamp. Maybe they just weren't spotting.

Because a lot of people, when they talked about the Honey Island Swamp Monster, it sort of, it had, it had, you know, sort of semi and features and reptile features. It was sort of a weird blend of the two. It had like patches of moss covered fur and all that. So maybe that's where the hair is coming from. I don't know. I don't know, man. You know, I was up until the point when you said where someone saw the actual lizard like features, I was convinced that it was going to end up to be more of a big foot type creature.

Yeah. Then it's like the nail in the coffin is like in the headlights. They saw the person saw the lizard like features. And it's like, dude. Yeah. The scales, the tail. Yeah. The tail is what freaks me out.

Uh-huh. That's, yeah. Is this area near any, like, military installations or anything like that? Not to get weird, but it's, it's South Carolina. So, I mean, the eastern seaboard is filled with Navy bases. That's true. I'm not sure which one is closest to them, because we talked to when we covered this on Campfire a long time ago,

I think this was like episode six or seven. Yeah. Like really early on. We talked about the idea that this might be the result of some weird experimentation. Totally. I mean. Yeah. I don't know which one is a worse scenario.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Dude, this is bad. Oh, man, you open my eyes and I'm, you know, I've, I've always kind of put this one down, down a few levels. But after this whole story, you know, I'm going to put it up a few more levels. It's very interesting. I'm definitely going to see about watching some stuff.

Maybe I'll pick up a copy of Lyle's book, you know. This is pretty cool, though. But so Alan in the Patreon, this one, he's always bringing up the, The lizard man, this one's for you, buddy. Yeah. But I hope I didn't upset you, Alan. He'll let us know. He will let us know.

He's always bringing up to the lizard man. And the Brown Mountain Lights, which is, that's a good topic too. It is. Dude, thank you so much for coming on and for chatting about the lizard man. This has been a lot of fun. I love it when people that know what they're talking about can present about a cryptic it or legend is it's very cool but um do you mind taking a few more minutes to uh just remind people about how they can keep up to date with a campfire and uh what you got going on and all

that good stuff yeah absolutely um first off thanks for having me man this dude this was a blast i always love a chance to just go back and sort of like test my especially those subjects that I haven't really looked at in a long time. Like I love to go back and sort of reinvigorate myself on the, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Because there's so much, man. And we do so much so fast that I feel like, you know, we've done, we've covered something like 70 topics in the last year and a half. And they're big topics too.

Like Headless Valley and the Honies like crazy big topics. like that. Yeah. I mean, there, and I can honestly say there isn't a single topic that we've covered that I, that I'm not confident I could write a 300 page book on. If,

you know what I mean? Like, I mean, yeah. I mean, you do what you want with that, but I would agree with you and you just, it's having the time to do it,

right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but dude, you totally could. Yeah. Yeah.

So thanks for the opportunity to, To go back in, because I kind of myself, I forgot how wild that some of that stuff got. But yeah, awesome, awesome. You can find Campfire Tales of the Strange and Unsettling on any and all platforms for podcasting. Wherever you're listening to this, you can find us. Nice. We also have the Patreon. Patreon.com slash Campfire Tales of the Strange and Unsettling.

it'll take you longer to type in the URL than it will to choose your tier. Yeah. But yeah, I believe in it. You can do it. We offer over there, we offer two bonus episodes every week minimum. So and lots of cool stuff. Lots of like swag and lots of behind the scenes stuff on the recording, the editing process, the research process, all that. So it's getting pretty cool over there.

That's awesome. Definitely go check that out. You can follow us on Instagram at campfire.tales.podcast or on TikTok at campfire.comptor. Podcast. And I mean, you can find us on any of the socials. We just started the Campfire Tales of the Strange and Unsettling fan page on Facebook. And that's going quite well. Yeah.

Smart move. Yep. Yep. Are you going to be at any events that people can meet you at? Not this year. We were planning. This was supposed to be like the big year for us with conventions. We were going to go to all of them and like all of them that we could and meet everybody.

And then my wife split her tendon in her ankle. Oh, my goodness. And had to get tendon repair surgery. Yeah. And she's like been on her back for two months. And she's still rehabbing that. And I have five kids. So I can't really like, I can't justify hopping in a car and going eight hours away and leaving her to fend for herself with those five.

Smart move, George. Yeah. That's a smart move, bud. Yeah. So now. Yeah. Yeah. So now, 2023 has become the year of the convention for us.

Nice. We're going to be doing all of them that we can next year. We do still want to do a year of just attending before we start. I totally get it. Yeah. Yeah. Unless any of them want to do live podcasts, the way what Monster Fest I think is doing a couple. Monster Fest is.

Yep. Yeah. Idiot, we will definitely do that. If asked to do that. If you're listening to this and you're ahead of a festival type thingy and just that, dude, hit him up, do it. But yeah, that's the wave of the future is going to be, I think, live. podcast at these conferences and festivals. So yeah, dude, I'm, you know, 2023, I hope to meet you at one of the events.

That would be a rock in time. Are you doing Monster Fest? I am. Yeah, I'm doing Bigfoot Society at Monster Fest. Seth is having me go there. I will be at CryptidCon this less than a month from now, but I'll just be, because I want to have my experience as an attendee before I start, you know, because that's a big. a big pool to just jump into.

Yeah, I want to experience it first. So yeah, there'll be a few that I'm going to. And then, of course, there's always Van Meter Visitor Festival next November, or September. So you got to get in there, get in their heads and get some live podcasting going on at the Van Meter Visitor Festival. Well, dude. That would be awesome. Did, did you know I got, I got invited to be on the festival planning committee? No.

I knew that you spoke this year. So. Yep. Yep. They were like, we want you to be part of this because you have a passion for it. And I was like, should we were to sign. Yeah. So that was a really huge honor. You could do it in a tent. You know what I mean? Just like, because it's mostly outdoors, right? Isn't it? It's all outdoors. Right. It's, it was a fourth, a quarter outside, but most of it was actually inside this year. Oh, okay. Yeah. They, which was more manageable. But yeah. Because you guys did like more. speakers and stuff this year than they have in the past, right?

Yeah, yeah, we had some really good speakers and we had actually a ton of podcasts as vendors at the festival this year, which is really cool. That's awesome. Yeah. A lot of good stuff. But yeah, if you guys, I mean, you're on the planning committee. Just set us up. Let's talk out of year, Winkwink, so, you know. Yeah, yeah, we'll do it.

We'll do it for sure. I mean, the guys in the, like, comedy podcasting world have been doing this for for a long time. years have been doing live podcasting. You know what I mean? And how many people in our community look up to like last podcast on the left? Oh my goodness. Yeah. Those guys tour all over the country doing live shows.

They're beasts. You know? Yeah. They rock it, dude. Yeah. So I was kind of shocked when we first started, when I first started hearing about all the festivals and not hearing anything about anyone doing live podcasts. And I'm like, what is going on here?

Like, this is a huge missed opportunity. Oh, yeah, it's coming. Like, how does the Mothman Festival not have a full, like the whole day you should be able to go into a tent or a room where a podcast is happening? I know. All day long. It's just, I think a lot of it is the people that help make decisions. As the newer generation starts to become involved, they will start to make decisions like that or help make decisions like that. that maybe the older generation wouldn't be have the the view yeah you know the right you know

what i'm trying to say you know yeah they'll get there they don't have the savvy of what's going on now yeah i mean so the mothman festival mothman is like mothman is the subject of probably a thousand podcasts you know what i mean you could have an amazing pick of the litter for like a mothman podcaster i mean it'd be great dude but yeah by the way before we go yeah depending on depending on how my life goes over the next couple weeks um we may or may not have just wrapped up a massive series on mothman on the show either that or it's still going i i know you've released some pretty some pretty rocking episodes so far thank you thank you yeah it was in intended to be four episodes.

And it's going to, it's looking now like it's going to be at least six. Oh my goodness. That's, that's astonishing legends. Yeah. Territory, my friend. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, I sat down to write a story that covered the full breadth of the

mothman, the direct mothman encounters, right? From like the two couples in the beginning all the way to the Silver Bridge. Right. That's what I was going to cover in the story. I ended up writing 18. pages on the first encounter. Wow. The initial encounter with the two couples.

So the last episode we released, all we talk about is that first encounter. And it's awesome. That's wild, dude. I want to do it right. We waited a year to do Mothman and I want to do it right. As you should, man. That's more, hopefully, you know, more people will hear that and, you know, take pride in what you do. and that's a great example of doing that.

Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, dude, thanks so much for being on. This has been a super, super good chat. And I always like talking to you, Jordan. Yeah, man, I'm always, I always have a great time on your show. So anytime we talk, I come away with positive feelings. So I appreciate it being invited.

All right. Well, we'll talk to you later. I'm sure, dude. Absolutely. Thank you for listening to Bigfoot Society. If you like the show, please review. and rate it five stars on iTunes. Hit the share button and send this episode to all your friends on social media.

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then please consider becoming a supporter of the podcast by going to www.patechon.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. Thanks for listening. If data management is slowing down your business, you need the Intuit ERP. If one entity is here and one here, and one here, and one here, you need the Intuit ERP. If scaling your business feels like start starting over, starting over, you need the Intuit

ERP. Intuit Enterpr. price suite is the AI-native ERP solution that consolidates, migrates, and automates, all in one place. Learn more at intuit.com slash ERP. Hey, I just Venmoed you for rent. Nice. Now I can instantly spend it whether I'm checking out online with Venmo or using a Venmo debit card.

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