Bigfoot Society - Welcome to Planet Strange! | Thom Powell

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Starting point is 00:01:23 See Lose.com for details. Visit your nearby Lowe's on West Pico Boulevard in Los Angeles. Welcome to Bigfoot Society. If you have Bigfoot activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Bigfoot Society at gmail.com. Do you wish there is more Bigfoot Society to listen to every week?

Starting point is 00:01:51 Well, there is now. If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you get a special members-only episode every single week. on Wednesdays and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to patreon.com forward slash the Bigfoot Society. And now let's get on with the show. All right, Bigfoot Society, you've got the privilege of talking to Mr. Tom Powell today. You may know Tom from some books that he's written.

Starting point is 00:02:17 He's written a few. For example, you know, there's the locals and his newest book, which is Planet Strange. We'll be talking about that later. Tom has also been involved with many different Bigfoot-related things over the years. He's written many Bigfoot books as well. But welcome to the show, Tom. How's it going tonight? Great. Thanks for having me on.

Starting point is 00:02:42 Absolutely. You're one of the individuals that I've definitely wanted to talk to over the years. And listeners will know this, I think. But trying to, you know, one of my favorite books is from back in the days Oregon Bigfoot Highway, which you did not write, but you were involved with as being one of the members of the Clackamas Sasquatchians, which are. Joe just kind of threw that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Joe's been a friend of mine for, I don't know, at least a decade, maybe longer by now. but gnome well and it's a it he addresses the the drainage that I live in the

Starting point is 00:03:28 clack in this river oh okay I'm closer to the mouth of the river I'm on the other side of esticada but the national forest is upstream on the river from sdcate Oregon so that's sort of the the point of demarcation between the upper drainage where all the National Forestland is and then the lower part of the river, which is a mix of ownership, some state, some private, so on. That's fantastic. You know, an individual like yourself where you've been in this field for many different years, I do like to start off with what was the catalyst point that got you into this big foot

Starting point is 00:04:16 field to begin with? Well, I read books back in the 80s. You know, Peter Byrne and Don Hunter had a book, which was pretty unspectacular. But there were others, but they were all pretty similar. I had seen John Green's book. But as a teacher, I was a science teacher for my whole career, and I, I confess that I ridiculed the subject and used it as an example of pseudoscience. And every year I would do a throwaway lesson on the day before Christmas vacation when curriculum wasn't a priority because the kids were pretty wound up and half the class had already left for Maui.

Starting point is 00:05:11 So I did a Bigfoot presentation. The school district had that in search of with Leonard Neboy, and I'd show it on my 16-millimeter movie projector, and it held the kids' attention on a tough day. But I did make every joke in the book, although I was aware that there was this guy out there, Peter Byrne, who was working in among other places, the Clackamas River.

Starting point is 00:05:41 And he, you know, was very serious about his quest to find good evidence, you know, capture one, who knows. And but I just made light of the whole thing for purposes of a, you know, filling a tough day in the curriculum. I will say after I watched that movie countless times in search of with Leonard Nimoy, and it too, was not memorable. It's just a bunch of talking heads, you know, there isn't any action. But I watched it and watched it, and I did find that, you know, Grover Krantz's contributions were pretty compelling. So that got me curious. But I lived in Portland, so it wasn't really something that I had a lot of direct experience with

Starting point is 00:06:41 until I bought a place out on the Clackamas River, which I did just because the kayaking and rafting was good and I had a moonlight occupation teaching kayaking and canoeing classes.

Starting point is 00:07:00 So I bought a place on the Clackamas River and one of the neighbors came over one day for a beer they were boarding horses on my property at the time and he volunteered that you know that bigfoot thing well we get that out here and I was a little bit surprised I not only didn't take it seriously but I had no idea that it was you know that it manifested so close to town and in the area where I had now just bought a piece of property. Then I saw a sign on the country store bulletin board saying there was a guy who

Starting point is 00:07:51 collected Bigfoot sightings. His name was Frank Kniester. He lived in Esticada. Yes. I called him up and said, hey, I do this thing every year. And it would be really nice if I could have some kind of thing to show the kids. in addition to this movie. Do you have anything?

Starting point is 00:08:12 He goes, well, you know, we cherished these artifacts, but I could lend it to you. And I said, all right, all right, perfect, perfect. So he lent me a track cast, and he had a few other artifacts, you know, twisted sticks and things like that that he thought were, you know, attributable to the Sasquatch. Well, one thing led to another,

Starting point is 00:08:36 and I started sort of following the subject on my own. And then I stumbled across Matthew Moneymaker's BFRO website, and this was probably in 1994. And so it was a pretty primitive website by today's standards. But being a mercurial fellow that he is, he had trouble holding on to investigators. they would work with him for a while and then his

Starting point is 00:09:08 as slightly intense personality would be off-putting. But he had a bunch of people quit on him and so he didn't have anyone looking into the local sightings that he was getting from my immediate area. So I started doing that for him

Starting point is 00:09:29 following up on sightings and for a while, everything in the Pacific Northwest went through my computer and crossed my desk. Eventually it became overwhelming as the subject expanded. Every time he would get on a show like Art Bell back in the day, then he would just be flooded with siding reports. And really, at times like that, I was overwhelmed as well.

Starting point is 00:10:04 well. So I just cherry picked the sightings and took the best ones or the closest ones or the most interesting ones. But then I started seeing the patterns. And I'm saving everything on my computer. And eventually I got to the point where if I had seen people's computers crash and they lose everything on their hard drive. And that's when I started writing it all down because I just felt like I've got to get some of this stuff off of my computer and into print. And so I basically contacted a bunch of the witnesses and interviewed them and wrote it all down. And then one of the witnesses told Matthew Moneymaker, I was working on a book. He was sure that it was a tell-all book that was going to make him look bad.

Starting point is 00:11:01 And that was the locals. And quite the opposite, but anyway, so that was the end of my involvement with BFRO. But, you know, I was kind of done with them anyway because I had learned the patterns and I knew that there were instances where someone saw Bigfoot dissolve into thin air. there are people who have had nonverbal communication, telepathy, if you will, and there were multiple examples of that that I had available to me in the late 90s. So then I started looking for people who were having repeat sightings, because then I finally decided, well, this is the gold standard, you know, the cat's pajamas

Starting point is 00:12:03 is these people who are having the things come around repeatedly. And there were some. There was one couple in a place called Blockhouse, Washington, near Goldendale, Eastern Washington, and they had them coming out of the woods and sitting around in plain sight. They even set a picnic table over on the edge of their property and people would come out and the Sasquatches would sit there keeping their distance. And then the people said, don't stare at them. They know, you know, they don't like being looked at, but just act like it's nothing. But there these things were coming around on a semi-routine basis.

Starting point is 00:12:48 and that's when I met Alan and April Hoyt and they live up near Mount Rainier and one of the things I had learned from gathering all the siding reports is that there are hot spots and the closer you get to Mount Rainier the more stuff happens and Alan and April lived within I don't know 20 miles of Mount Rainier and so I started going out there and interviewing them and they described, oh, yeah, we, we, there's three different generations. We call them grandpa, grandma, mom and dad, and then the youngsters. But there's three different generations. We see them. My daughter sees them the most. She sees them when she's on horseback quite often. Horses are pretty aware of their surroundings, and then they, their ears point at things that

Starting point is 00:13:46 are happening in there. So, you know, I had seen this before, but they were a really good example of this repeat encounter stuff. They have kept a bunch of bunnies and hutches on their property, and they learned that the Sasquatches were able to open the hutches. And the Sasquatches would take the young rabbits, but leave the breeders alone. So they seem to understand that, you know, it was not in their own interest to take the breeding rabbits, but rather the offspring, whatever they're called, and rabbit raising. But the main thing I was, of course, interested in was a place to set up cameras. and they acquiesced and I got my hands on some early trail cans that were crazy expensive by today's standards, $600 for these things back then.

Starting point is 00:14:53 And we started putting cameras around the property. Meanwhile, I had, well, actually one of the most interesting things was I was aware of this situation in Oklahoma where the saskwashes were raiding an outdoor fridge. So I happened to ask Alan in April, have you ever seen this? And they said, yes. Oh, wow. In fact, they had not put two and two together. All they knew is that every once in a while, they'd come out and the fridge door was

Starting point is 00:15:27 open in the morning. And Alan, the patriarch, would scold the kids for leaving the door open. and they said, we didn't do that. We wouldn't. Well, then he noticed that a side of a pig disappeared from the freezer. There were ice cream bars in there that were untouched, but the side of a pig disappeared. And they have a pig roast every year, you know, Polynesian thing. They bury it and coals and everything.

Starting point is 00:16:02 Well, their pig vanished. and ice cream bars were on touch. So that sort of ruled out neighborhood kids. And I had seen enough in other places that I was like, no, no, they do that. And so we, of course, put a camera on the fridge and made sure the fridge was stocked with things. Nothing happened. And the activity shifted to another part of the property. So we moved the cameras over there.

Starting point is 00:16:36 Well, then the fridge got hit again when the camera wasn't on it. So little by little, it started to appear that they understood what we were doing. And they were averse to the cameras. Every time we would put the cameras in the location where the activity was, the activity would stop. Agents who are realtors do more than open doors. They analyze market trends, interest rates, comps, They can tell you about flood zones, mixed-use zones, and decode acronyms like HOA, APR, MLS. They connect you to lawyers, contractors, even Phil, the Sewardcope guy.

Starting point is 00:17:16 They negotiate, coordinate, advocate for you, close the deal with you, and hand the keys to you. They bring you home. Realtor's are members of the National Association of Realtors, right by you. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself,

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Starting point is 00:18:29 This is a job for Indeed. They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a Reese's. Like this commercial break, did you need 15 seconds away from music, or 15 seconds to eat a Reese's? Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a Reese's. Took me a while to put two and two together, and I eventually came to that conclusion, but my colleagues in BFRO were still pretty skeptical. You know, in those days no one was assigning the Sasquatches with the degree of intelligence that enabled them to understand and avoid cameras. Well, now we laugh at that.

Starting point is 00:19:12 I mean, you know, when people say I don't enjoy it, I just want them to go away. What should I do? I tell them, put out a camera. That'll stop it for sure. And it really does. and over and over again we put cameras in the woods and had them either dismantled

Starting point is 00:19:33 powered down pulled off the tree and left face down in the ground just a whole bunch of things like that that all point to the same thing. They understand and are averse to this idea of cameras and so that was one of the chapters in the locals

Starting point is 00:19:54 that was sort of groundbreaking at least in the time, early 2000s, and then the whole idea of habituation that there are people who have the Sasquatches, you know, come around on some sort of semi-routine basis. That was new at the time isn't anymore. I want to jump in and make a connection for some listeners that might not get something that was said a few minutes ago. the locals is probably one of the, I would consider it the best source of knowledge about what is considered by the community right now, the siege at Honubby in Oklahoma.

Starting point is 00:20:37 Yeah, that's where I first learned about the outdoor freezers. Right, exactly. Yeah. So were you involved with interviewing anyone involved with that? Was the guy. Yeah, I got to take that. of that household. And he shot him.

Starting point is 00:21:01 He shot at one. And he felt that he hit it. And there was blood on the ground. And he relayed that to Matt and myself. And Matt, of course, said, don't touch a thing. We're sending the team right there. We'll handle it from here.

Starting point is 00:21:23 in retrospect that was a mistake. It was a terrible rainstorm and it all washed away. Oh my goodness, really? Wow. Yeah. And so if anybody's ever in that position, don't wait an hour to get out there and get the tissue sample or whatever it is.

Starting point is 00:21:44 But it is kind of a weird coincidence that I don't think is as much of a coincidence as people think that when, you know, something like that happens, in comes this rainstorm out of nowhere and washes the evidence away. There is a tribe, I think it's in Wisconsin and their name for the Sasquatch,

Starting point is 00:22:12 which I forget what it is, but it translates into he who makes the wind blow. Wow. So there's something weird about weather with these things. And let's just say I suspect that they have powers that are a lot more sophisticated than we realize. Absolutely. So in your opinion, because you were able to talk to these, the individuals that were

Starting point is 00:22:43 involved with this firsthand, it sounds like it was an event that. that absolutely actually happened. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. And like I say, they were having repeat visitations. One of the things that was happening was that they were pulling the screen. They were messing with the windows and tearing the screen off the window and doing things that started to become menacing. And that's when said, I just wanted to go away.

Starting point is 00:23:20 I don't like this thing. I'm not interested in gathering evidence. I want these things out of here. I met the guy. I went to Oklahoma for one of these festivals that they had, right there in that area. And one of the people who attended was one of the neighbors, and he brought me over and showed me the place. And, I met a couple of different times.

Starting point is 00:23:46 and you know he was very concerned about the safety of his family it wasn't interested in gathering big foot evidence but he was willing to play ball at least for a while with BFRO before he got a little exasperated with their ways of being and so on and so forth but you know that it was It was in the early days when the sort of attempts to gather better information were quite ham-handed. Sure. Yeah. It's such an interesting story from 20-some-odd years ago. And it's hard to track down individuals. I know there was individuals. He's like a private investigator, but also part of the BFR. And I don't even know if he's around. anymore to be honest but well one guy was an airline pilot um one guy was a hunter matt put together a group of three or four guys who went down there uh all card carrying bfro

Starting point is 00:25:04 but um like i said by the time they got there um the the evidence was washed away and um they didn't really have a good idea about what to do anyway, but eventually, you know, the activity stopped, as it always does, especially once, you know, all the official investigators show up, you know, when unfamiliar cars start pulling in, then that destabilizes a situation. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's, yeah, it makes it totally different. You know, another thing that you were involved with is, I believe you were actually the individual that found the imprint that was then used to make the Skookum cast and Skookum Meadows and Gifford Pinchot. Is that correct? No, I didn't find it. Okay.

Starting point is 00:26:03 Derek and Rick Knoll were the ones who stumbled across it, but we were in the Mount St. Helens area for, A better part of a week, we were being followed around by an Australian film crew that did a show back then called Animal X. So, you know, you can imagine what that's about. Lachnest Monster, Bigfoot, the works. And so for this episode, they came out and they had an early thermal camera. The batteries didn't work. It didn't hold the charge. and it, you know, seemed to be a promising thing

Starting point is 00:26:46 because you could see into the night. But we never got anything with it. But that was the big technological innovation that had just sort of come on the scene back then. But they weren't getting anything after a week or so of hanging out and trying all these different things. So on our last night, before we all had to, you know, get back to town.

Starting point is 00:27:15 The Aussies had to get back home. But they didn't have anything. And they were sort of like, look, what are we going to do? And I said, well, all right, can I make a suggestion here? You guys have been sneaking around a lot. Well, I know these people, Alan and April, and what I know is that they know your tricks and traps. The Saskees are up at Allen and April's.

Starting point is 00:27:41 they were on to us and they knew the cameras and so instead of sneaking around and trying tricks why don't you try a different approach and they said okay what do you got in mind and I said gestures of friendliness accommodation you know we got all this food that that isn't being like we got a case of peaches sitting here put them out somewhere and and just see you if they don't, you know, take them, but don't put the cameras on them and don't hide in the bushes. Just put them out there as a gesture of friendliness conciliation. And they said, okay, so they took it off and drove up the road and found a big pull out on the side of the road where they turn around logging trucks and a big mud puddle in the middle of it. And they put the apples and peaches there in the center of this kind of shot over turnaround in the middle of a forest road.

Starting point is 00:28:53 And that's where they went back the next day to check their food. And that's when they found the big impression. And all I remember is that they came racing back to camp. It had snow that night. Snow was melting in the morning. and they came roar and into camp and said, you got you got a Zee's, come here, come here, come here. And we jumped in the car.

Starting point is 00:29:16 And to their credit, they did notice that there was an impression. They were, of course, looking for footprints. You know, that's all we were ever looking for. It's footprints. But all of a sudden they, at least Rick, Rick Knoll, especially, recognized that that's something else. but that wasn't here before. And so push came to shove, what they deduced was that the thing sat down and reached for the fruit,

Starting point is 00:29:50 perhaps so as not to leave the footprints that we were looking for. That's extremely interesting because there would be, I mean, logically, there'd be no skookum cast if you hadn't had made that suggestion. which is pretty cool. Yeah, wow, that's incredible. It really, you know, it makes you think, you know, you start thinking outside the box. They listen, because, you know, they all had their ideas on what, the funny thing was, there was actually a degree of fear.

Starting point is 00:30:29 Derek showed up with a landscaping trailer that he select him, had no windows, and had one door, and he would lock it from the inside. And then here I am sleeping in my REI tent with, you know, a 2-mill nylon. And I don't know if you were the guys had guns and stuff, but Derek was sleeping in this fortified trailer because, you know, he wasn't sure but that his safety was not on the line. And so that was, you know, it was kind of humorous how different the approaches were back then and how unsure people were about putting themselves out there. But they did listen when I said, quit the tricks and traps.

Starting point is 00:31:23 It didn't work up there at Mount Rainier. And once we started being accommodating, they started cooperating at least a little. But they wouldn't appear on camera. But then I finally found a workaround on that. And that is I met this psychic dude through Ray Crow in the Western Bigfoot Society. And he felt like he had communication. His name was Steve Fredericks. And I said, Steve, all right.

Starting point is 00:31:56 Well, you know, we got this area and we got these cameras. And we've been putting them out for two years. So let's try something. will you please use your juju to ask for permission? And that kind of worked. He said, well, he said, he called me back after he felt like he had the contact. And he said, they were very impressed that you asked. But he also, he said there's a thing, and that is we don't.

Starting point is 00:32:33 we have a rule against being seen and we also have a rule against being photographed. This is what he was claiming he received by way of a, you know, a telepathic response. And but then within two days, Alan calls me up and said, we got something on the camera for the first time. And it was a shadow. But it was a shadow that looked for all the world, like the upper torso of an, of a, you know, primate, something upright. And it was the first and best thing we ever got on the cameras,

Starting point is 00:33:12 and it was within two days of Steve asking. Now, I did not tell Alan and April that I was doing this, you know, trying to do a single blind, psychological, you know, you can't let each side of the experiment know what the other, you know, I think they call it single blind in psychology studies. Agents who are realtors do more than open doors. They analyze market trends, interest rates, comps. They can tell you about flood zones, mixed use zones, and decode acronyms like

Starting point is 00:33:46 HOA, APR, MLS. They connect you to lawyers, contractors, even Phil, the Sewer Scope guy. They negotiate, coordinate, advocate for you, close the deal with you, and hand the keys to you. They bring you home. Real Tours are members of the National Association of Realtors, right by you. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed?

Starting point is 00:34:13 Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time.

Starting point is 00:34:44 More results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves. at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire?

Starting point is 00:35:07 This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a recess. Like this commercial break. Did you need 15 seconds away from music? Or 15 seconds to eat or Reese's? Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a recesses.

Starting point is 00:35:24 double blind was when the researcher doesn't even know themselves which treatment is being administered to well anyway after we got a camera image but not a very good one i didn't tell steve that we got anything i didn't want to you know sort of lead him on or anything but i said steve i want you to ask for a bone um forget the camera it's it's not a thing i want to and okay um they're not going to that but okay and so then he called me back he said I did get what you said two days later Alan calls me up a new year's day of I think it was 2001 and said we just found a bone at the base of the camera tree said I'll be right up and so I drove a hundred miles up there and he handed me the bone and it was about the size and shape of a coffee saucer but it was real thick and it ended up after checking around a whole bunch, I finally found a guy who raised emus and he was able to positively identify it as the breastbone of an emu. And so I asked Alan, do you know anybody who

Starting point is 00:36:44 raises these things? Because, you know, people raise them domestically for, I guess, meat. And he said, Yeah, my dad raises emos. Where's your dad live? Five miles away. Do you have any explanation for how an emu bone got from even five miles away to your house? No, I really don't. And of course, you know, in retrospect, it's, in my view, indicative of a sense of humor. You know, what I was asking for was, of course, a little bit audacious.

Starting point is 00:37:22 you know, would you dig up one of your relatives so that you could provide a bone to some person who wanted proof of, I don't know what? But when I finally told Steve Fredericks what happened, he hit himself on the forehead with his palm and he said, you know, I never specified one of your bones. Well, I was just going to say, yeah, yeah. Would you give us a bone? Right. So he asked for, and they complied quite literally. What's amazing is the timing is that it all happened within a very small period of time and that the people who found the bone did not know that I was doing this.

Starting point is 00:38:12 And Steve Frederick had never visited the site, didn't know where it was. so he could not be accused of ceding or salting whatever the word is for you know leaving imitation evidence for serious-minded researchers to stumble upon. Tom, when I talk to individuals, and I've talked to individuals for a few years in this field, I find that sometimes there's a time where it changes from their. investigating things but then they really get in it becomes super personal for them what did that start to happen to you where you started to experience things yourself or have any experience with the Sasquatch well not as

Starting point is 00:39:07 much as I was hoping for the frustration was that every time I showed it up showed up at Allen and April's everything would stop and then as soon as I left everything would resume when I say everything. I mean, let's just say the limited activity that they were experiencing always stopped when I showed up. And all of a sudden it became clear that they understood who I was and they weren't going to cooperate with, you know, Joe, researcher, namely me. But sometimes there was manifest a sense of humor. For instance, one night,

Starting point is 00:39:58 I sat there at Allen and Apples, and I, oh, you know, in those days, we were all taught tree knocking was it. You know, that's just how they, we're sure that they were hitting trees with sticks. So I sat there all night with a baseball bat three times in a row, whack, whack, whack, and did that every 15 minutes for the better part of the night. And eventually at 4.30 in the morning, I left because I had a dentist appointment or something mid-morning, had to get back home. And I had a 100-mile drive at 4.30, and I pulled into my house at just at sunrise which you know in august is about 530 545 and as soon as i got out of my car from the woods in the back of my property comes whack whack whack and i was so tired i couldn't even

Starting point is 00:40:58 walk to the back of the property i just had to get in bed and lie down but um what funny is somehow the idea was conveyed a hundred miles from Allen and April's to my house and and there they were responding only there when I reflect on that it's it's to me that sense of humor oh absolutely I would definitely agree with you that Tom I'd like to talk about the Oregon Bigfoot Highway for a little bit. In your own words, how would you describe what the Oregon Bigfoot Highway actually is? It's Highway 224.

Starting point is 00:41:49 It's a state highway. And then when it enters the National Forest, it becomes the 42 road. But it is the road that goes from Esticada up and over the crest of the Cascades around Mount Jefferson and then descends down the Brighton Bush River to a place called Detroit, Oregon, pretty small town on the San E.M River. But it is, it basically speaks the entire clock in this river basin, especially the upper part of the basin,

Starting point is 00:42:19 upstream of S. Decatur in the National Forest, where a whole bunch of Sasquatch sightings have occurred over time. you know, some famous ones like the one where the guy saw the Sasquatch lifting up rocks and grabbing picas out of the ground and eating them. That's up on what's called burnt granite ridge. But there's just a whole bunch of exciting activity that happens along the clock in this river and along the tributaries. Clackamas County, which contains the river, of course, has more Sasquatch sightings than anywhere else in Oregon. There are places in Washington that has more.

Starting point is 00:43:13 There's places in Northern California, but in Oregon, Clackamas County is number one. So Joe just did his best to collect and chronicle as many of the historical sightings that came out of that area, plots them on maps, and so on. I think the only thing that's perhaps misleading about doing that is people want to put themselves in that same place where a sighting historically happened or maybe even more than that. and one, but in my view, I think that's a little misguided. I think that the sightings are not necessarily attached to any single spot. It's just that the person was in the right place at the right time. Rather than put yourself at the exact place where a previous sighting has happened, I think you just kind of got to go up there and camp out and hang out.

Starting point is 00:44:20 and let them come to you. Absolutely. I think that's a great way to put it. It is, I mean, it's not an incredibly easy drive to get through there. You definitely need to be prepared to get down that road, correct? No, no, it's it's a two-lane road. And then the center stripe goes away once you get into the National Forest. But it's paved.

Starting point is 00:44:45 Okay. And it's an easy drives, senior. very windy but there's a whole bunch of drainage that that flow into the Clackamas River Oak Grove Fork and the Roaring River and Mammalooch Creek and Mammalooch Creek and up any of those creeks things have happened so it's not just the road itself it's it's all the ansela Lairy roads that are part of that, part of that Mount Hood National Forest.

Starting point is 00:45:28 But they all have stuff going on. The side roads start to get a little beat up and primitive, and they're mostly logging roads. But it's a great piece of public land. And you can just drive on up there and set up camp, but it is not overly difficult to get in there. But there are places that are designated wilderness like the roaring river. And if one wants to get into there, that is actually trailless.

Starting point is 00:46:00 So you sort of have to navigate, drop into these steep drainage and try your best not to get lost. Wow, that sounds wild. Yeah, there's easy spots. And, you know, a lot of the sightings were right along the main highway, right by a bridge or just, you know, a cop was driving down the highway. And here was this creature standing there swaying back and forth at five in the morning, that kind of thing. So most of the sidings were from the car window. That's really, really. That doesn't mean everybody who dropped through there is going to have something happen.

Starting point is 00:46:45 would that they could. It's a statistical thing. And, you know, the chances of having something happen are one in a thousand on any given day. But if you go up there a thousand times, something's going to happen. You know, there's this guy, Les Stroud, who did a show called Survivor Man. Right, yeah. And he would go out. into the woods all by himself and hang out.

Starting point is 00:47:19 And eventually on at least one of his episodes, he was approached and something was moving around and really gave him the hebie-jeebies. And that's when he sort of started taking the Sasquatch thing seriously. I will also say for listeners, if you're curious about the Sasquatch in the PICA, reference that Tom made, that's, I believe, the Glenn Thomas incident, I think, and that's called out in the book, and you can really read up on it in the book that we've been talking about.

Starting point is 00:47:56 It's called Granite Ridge. It's not the worst road ever, but it's, what's a little spooky for some is the fact that these roads go up the side of a mountain, and there's no guardrail. It's not a bad road. You certainly just want to keep your mind on the road, and you quit playing with your stereo because you get a car off the road and you you might never be seen again. But burnt granite ridge is where that happened. And those rocks are still stacked there. If one finds their way up there, you can still see the remnants of what Glenn

Starting point is 00:48:34 Thomas described 30 years ago by now. Have you had any things happen yourself when you were in involved with the other members of the Oregon Bigfoot Highway in that area. Any incidents that happened? Yeah, I've had lots of things happen over the years that, you know, up in that clock in this area. So, you know, Joe and I and a bunch of other guys would camp out there a couple, three times a summer and sometimes you'd hear some scream in the distance. We've had several times where something disappeared under mysterious circumstances from our camp. One time my wife and I were on

Starting point is 00:49:31 one of these outings and they had a bunch of other people, bar, um, What's her last name? Anyway, she was doing a BFR rollouting and had a bunch of people up there. We went up and joined them. And one of the participants had a GPS unit taken out of their plastic case and then Seeley, my wife and I found it in the middle of the road, a mile and a half outside of camp. And they couldn't explain how it got there. and then we went up on a,

Starting point is 00:50:15 climbed up onto a promontory over this rock quarry. Agents who are realtors do more than open doors. They analyze market trends, interest rates, comps. They can tell you about flood zones, mixed use zones, and decode acronyms like HOA, APR, MLS. They connect you to lawyers, contractors, even Phil, the Seward scope guy. They negotiate, coordinate.

Starting point is 00:50:39 advocate for you, close the deal with you, and hand the keys to you. They bring you home. Realtor's are members of the National Association of Realtors, right by you. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time

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Starting point is 00:51:54 It said everything happens for a reason, but maybe everything happens for a reases. Take noise-canceling headphones. Do they block hearing to heightened taste? Hmm, that sound seems to show. Everything happens for a Reese's. And we're sitting there, and my wife took her watch off and left it on the rocks, and then we did some other stuff and came back, and then she realized she didn't pick up her watch. Well, then the next day, some kids were part of our group, said, oh, we saw that watch.

Starting point is 00:52:29 We climbed up to that promontory, and we saw the watch, but we didn't touch. it because it wasn't ours and I said well we've been nice if you brought it home but I guess we'll go back and get it and the girl said well the other thing we noticed is that the time wasn't set to the correct hour we just had a time change and so my wife hadn't reset the watch well then when we went back to get the watch we found it right there and that time had been updated to the correct time Oh, man, that's okay. Wow. Now, that doesn't prove big, but big.

Starting point is 00:53:09 But that's weird. That's weird. It's those kinds of things that you get. You know, it's always something that you're not expecting. And it's as though you're being challenged to notice. So when you're walking around in the woods, One thing I had learned to notice is these weirdly twisted trees, usually at trail junctions. You get other curiosities like that that are really hard to explain, but it is definitely not necessarily proof, rather just an indication that something intelligent and with a sense of humor is sort of leaving things and inviting you to notice.

Starting point is 00:54:05 I agree with you, Tom. I mean, I just went out to Oregon for the first time this last July to Oak Ridge area. And I mean, the stuff you find out in the woods out there, like miles and miles out on forest roads. I mean, yeah, you're finding tree twist that are in like, not just one, but like multiples and like high up. And it's like, oh, man, what is going on around here, dude? Well, so what I've learned is answer them. Add to it. Oh.

Starting point is 00:54:38 So pick up a leaf and stab it through a branch or add another twist. and one of these guys I know Toby Johnson area where he was inviting them to contribute to his rock art and he was getting quite a bit of back and forth

Starting point is 00:55:05 one thing that Judy what's your name Henry I think from Washington brought us to was she said take a picture with your phone do do a little an arrangement there and then take a picture and darn it you won't come back the next day and things have been moved well i said judy so are you really of the thinking that saskatch has nothing better to do than walk around in the woods and rearrange all our little uh pieces of woods art and and she said no no

Starting point is 00:55:42 They do it with energy. They don't have to physically be there. It looks like, ooh, that'll leave you scratching your head. But I think there's something to that. It's pretty, again, audacious to think that they follow you around and rearrange your pieces of stick and agate that you're leaving there. But however it's done, And you do get these acknowledgments, which is fun.

Starting point is 00:56:15 But it's, it's again, not really the kind of proof that people would like. You know, you're not going to be able to take that to Jeff Meldrum and say, hey, I got proof. They moved my rocks. Exactly. But then it's like at the end of the day, like what is really more important that we can take it to an individual like that? and be like, okay, here's a footprint, or you can experience something yourself. And is that enough, you know? It depends on the individual, but you better believe that there are people.

Starting point is 00:56:54 And I was one of those people who was really, I just felt like, you know, if I worked this thing long enough, it's got to work. You know, if I put enough cameras at Allen and April's place, it's going to work. Well, it won't. but what you might get is something that is sort of personally meaningful to you, but they very much seem to understand exactly what we're looking for and they're not going to give it to us. You've spent so many years in this. Have you come up with any ideas of what the Sasquo is. might actually be based on, you know, things you've looked into and experienced?

Starting point is 00:57:45 Yeah, and that's what Planet Strange gets at. Absolutely. The question that I finally came to an attempted to address is, where do they go when they want safe haven? I don't think they're just kind of roaming around in the wilderness and these TP-shaped stick structures that we find in the woods are indicative of something, but there are in no way shelter. But they must have safe haven, and they must have this place where they go when they want to be left alone, and who knows, rear their Sasquatch family or whatever. And, you know, my Native American sources said they come from underground. They emanate from within the Earth. So that's really what Planet Strange attempts to address is what is the evidence and the indications of this subterranean realm.

Starting point is 00:58:59 And I do believe that it is the place where the Sasquatch and the, extraterrestrial phenomena intersect. And they do intersect. They do know each other. I believe the Sasquatch are essentially doing the heavy lifting, and they are the observers and guardians of what happens here on Earth, but they answer to a higher power, which may come and go from the planet. And I think they do.

Starting point is 00:59:30 I think they originated from somewhere else in the galaxy. but I think it's probably a mistake to suppose that the extraterrestrial phenomenon as it manifests today necessarily comes from space. I think they are already here. They have been for 100,000 years. They're comfortably ensconced on planet Earth, and those lights and things that we see in the sky emanate from, again, within the Earth. you hear so many so many accounts of that

Starting point is 01:00:08 when you talk to witnesses about how you know maybe there is an orb they saw after they saw a Sasquatch or they saw a Sasquatch controlling an oar and it's just it's so interesting when you hear those those

Starting point is 01:00:22 tales of lights but um the Planet Strange book is just you really get into some some interesting territory i mean you're talking from about everything from the pyramids to giants. The mound phenomenon, Bermuda Triangle,

Starting point is 01:00:46 there's a, there are a litany of phenomena that we tend to look at separately, that probably intersect. Or let's just say when you hit a wall, it's often because you're not asking the right question. And in this case, I asked the question of how do these seemingly separate phenomena interact and all combined to suggest something that has been right in front of us for a long time, but we just have not, you know, sort of put two and two together. So that's what I attempted to do is take a bunch of unexplained things and then suppose that perhaps the question that we're not asking is how they interact.

Starting point is 01:01:45 One of them being, does the Sasquatch have any interaction with the extraterrestrial phenomena? And I think that the answer is a definite yes. I mean, that's something else that comes up in a lot of these accounts, especially, I mean, you're probably aware of like the Chestnut Ridge area out in southwest Pennsylvania. There's so many accounts out there where it's connected. Is that Stan Gordon's? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Stan Gordon had some great stuff that people are generally unaware of. One of the questions is how they get around,

Starting point is 01:02:27 and he found that there was an indication that, well, there were some people who said, oh, they have an annual get-together, and it's up in the Yukon. And this is the Sasquatch now. And so the question is, well, how do they all get there? and one Native American source said, well, they ride the steel snake.

Starting point is 01:02:54 The what? The steel snake, you know, trains. Oh, yeah. Well, Stan Gordon had these outlier sightings from Pennsylvania or Kentucky where the Sasquatch were seen riding, standing on the coupler in between, the freight cars traveling on trains. That's crazy.

Starting point is 01:03:25 But why not? They're quick and they're agile and I see no reason they couldn't jump on the thing and save themselves a whole bunch of steps. You just wonder whether there's ever a hobo in the box car who has those tax. Watch jumped in. Yeah, exactly. It makes you wonder, like, I almost want to do a search to see if there's citing accounts that have been taken from, you know, hobos that did see a big foot,

Starting point is 01:04:03 like when they were on a car. That would be pretty cool. I think one of the things that I unearthed over the years is that sometimes the most unassuming member of civilization or society is the one who has the most, you know, vivid story, almost as though the entities understand that this person has no credibility and therefore we could do the fox trot in front of them and it's just not going to get any traction. That is extremely interesting. Is there a particular example where you saw that happen?

Starting point is 01:04:46 Well, I mean, it doesn't come to mind, but I think there's a few different times when, you know, somebody had a very vivid encounter who was also either underage or, you know, no other corroborating witness, not a person of any great credibility. So that, you know, historically BFRO has always tried to find the sightings that can be assigned to a person of credibility. And so engineers, you know, train operators see things a lot, but don't always talk about them. but if you can find a priest or an airline pilot or I don't know, just somebody of elevated credibility, that strengthens their sighting, but, you know, it does seem that the, well, Alan and April, for instance, you know, really unassuming salt to the earth folk, a few semi-operational cars,

Starting point is 01:06:07 lying around their son living on the property in a trailer, you know, just real salt to the earth types are over and over again, the ones who seem to have the repeat sightings. West Virginia, Oklahoma, you know, it's almost like they're chosen on account of their lack of credibility in a wider audience. That's really interesting. It reminds me of those, I just watched again, I have a few favorite documentaries,

Starting point is 01:06:48 but like in search of Bigfoot by Robert W. Morgan, it's an old one filmed up in the Cougar, Washington area, but it's like they're, you know, they're just talking to loggers that had sightings. and that kind of stuff. That's what I love, you know, just hearing stories and accounts from, you know, as you said, like Salt of the Earth, people, just normal everyday people.

Starting point is 01:07:11 That's what I, that's what I love. Agents who are realtors do more than open doors. They analyze market trends, interest rates, comps. They can tell you about flood zones, mixed use zones, and decode acronyms like HOA, APR, MLS. They connect you to lawyers, contractors. even Phil, the Sewardcope guy. They negotiate, coordinate, advocate for you, close the deal with you, and hand the keys to you. They bring you home.

Starting point is 01:07:39 Real Tours are members of the National Association of Realtors, right by you. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs.

Starting point is 01:08:14 It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a recess. Like this commercial break. Did you need 15 seconds away from music? Or 15 seconds.

Starting point is 01:08:58 to eat or recess. Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a recess. But they're not taken very seriously because of their country accent and one strap broken on their coveralls. but but um if you can get past all that you um you you you i think can learn some things by oh absolutely given the people a listen you can learn you can go with the put in Oregon and and and talk to uh uh loggers uh over a beer and and and they all have a story but they all understand that that, you know, no one wants to hear it.

Starting point is 01:09:56 And they don't have any particular credibility. But if you give them a chance, they'll sort of open your eyes. I think that's a great way to put it, Tom, is, you know, there's so many people out there that definitely do have something they want to share, but it's just giving them the chance to share what they've experienced. And yeah, Tom, it's been just a fun time chatting with you. You remind me an individual I used to talk to a lot. His name is Henry Franzoni.

Starting point is 01:10:32 And you both are very similar. I mean, rest in peace, Henry, a great guy. But you are both very similar. It's just a fun time chatting with you. before we end our talk today is there anything else

Starting point is 01:10:50 that you were wanting to share or is there a way that people can you know reach out to you or you kind of a little bit

Starting point is 01:10:58 you know you write your books and then maybe in the shadows a little bit well you know I got an email and I don't

Starting point is 01:11:08 check it all that often but it's T-H-O-M-O-W-E-L at Yahoo. So if someone really needed to talk to me, I guess I would encourage them to email. It might take me a few weeks to get back to them. But I don't, you know, see myself as the arbiter of any, you know, particular wisdom. All I got is a bunch of statistical patterns.

Starting point is 01:11:43 some sort of far out there ideas that seem to have fallen out of my looking for patterns to the sightings. So I would say, you know, anybody can get to the point of leading the sort of the knowledge, starting by just reading book. And I think sometimes, I mean, it's fine to watch stuff on the internet, but it's one of those subjects that you just sort of have to get into book length sets of material in order to really start to put things together. and you know I guess more and more I'm seeing that people rely on on electronic sources of information and and the books get pushed aside but I mean I'm not just hawking my own books but just reading the literature that's out there there's so much of it there's like this guy Chris Noel up in Vermont and he's really come into some really interesting things.

Starting point is 01:13:08 And his analysis of the data suggests that they show indications of being a savant, you know, extremely aware of details and they can walk into a woods and notice the one thing that has been moved since the last time that they were there. So his work is really interesting. I'm trying to think of who else. Well, you know, you got Joe's one, the Bigfoot Highway. That's, he doesn't really speculate. He just reports.

Starting point is 01:13:48 And that's kind of the way John Green and all these guys did for all this time. But I think more and more I'm sort of of the feeling that, at least with my own book, that, you know, you can't just report. You have to speculate because, you know, that's sort of how we advance the knowledge. Absolutely. I think that's a great way to put it. So, guys, make sure you, if you're interested by what you've heard tonight, check out the Planet Strange book by Tom Powell.

Starting point is 01:14:33 You can get it on, is the best way to get it on Amazon, Tom, or is there another way you prefer? None of us want to give Jeff Bezos any more money. Right, right. He does a good job. But edges of science was my third one. And it's really where I first started to go around the bend and speculate as to how these things, you know, for instance, the chapter on communication that is in edges of science was originally. going to be in the locals. It was the 13th chapter. And in 2002 or whenever it was, I had some people proofread it and they said, man, I think you should get that chapter out of there. It's just,

Starting point is 01:15:18 it's just too much. And one of my proofreaders said, why don't you have that be the first chapter of your next book? Because you're really, you're going way out on a limb with this idea that you hand communicate with these creatures. And so I took their advice. And obviously, in retrospect, it was maybe a little bit, but it did end up being the beginning of then what ended up being the next book, which was Edges of Science. But the one that's lost in there is the novel, and that's called Shady Neighbors. and it doesn't necessarily advance the knowledge, but it's a cute story that is, you know,

Starting point is 01:16:08 I wrote as sort of a family-friendly but still edgy kind of a Sasquatch treatment. And I was working at the middle school, of course, at the time. And so I wanted to write something that, you know, a teenage audience could read. and, you know, get something out of it. Very cool. So it sounds like something for everyone to check out from the books that you've written so far, Tom. But yeah, we will definitely be, you know, keeping an eye on. It sounds like you'll be in some things in the future, which will be fun to see.

Starting point is 01:16:52 Next appearance is this one, this event they do in Hocking Hills, Ohio. Oh, cool. You're going out for that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's in August. I don't do the appearances as much as I used to, but that's just because, you know, I got exhausted. And it's, uh, my wife keeps me busy remodeling. There you go. I get it. Yeah. Tom, thank you for spending some time. tonight talking about, you know, your, your past work and experiences and also about your books. And it's been a fun time chatting. Thank you so much. You're so welcome. I just want to take a few minutes to say thank you to you, all my listeners, for listening to the podcast.

Starting point is 01:17:48 Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications and share. the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much. Make sure that you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following or know someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot Society at Gmail.com or pass on my email. Here's the list. The Suttal Lake area of Oregon Rainbow Oregon, McKinsey Bridge area, sweet home, pretty much that entire area,

Starting point is 01:18:34 the north part, if you get what I mean. I'll see you back next time, listeners. Sasquit Summerfest, this year, July 11th through the 12th, it's going to be fantastic. July 11th through 12th in Greenwaters Park in Oakridge, Oregon. And listeners, if you're going to go, you can get a two-day ticket for the cost of one.

Starting point is 01:18:55 if you use the code BFS, like Bigfoot Society, but BFS, and it'll get you some off your cost. Priscilla was nice enough to provide that for my listeners. So there you go. I look forward to seeing you there, so make sure you head over to www.

Starting point is 01:19:14 Sasquatchummerfest.com and pick up your tickets today. Agents who are real tours do more than open doors. They analyze market trends, interest rates, comps. They can tell you about flood zone, mixed-use zones, and decode acronyms like HOA, APR, MLS. They connect you to lawyers, contractors, even Phil, the Sewerscope guy. They negotiate, coordinate, advocate for you, close the deal with you, and hand the keys to you. They bring you home.

Starting point is 01:19:43 Realtors are members of the National Association of Realtors, right by you. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs.

Starting point is 01:20:19 It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

Starting point is 01:20:48 Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. They say everything happens for reason. but I suspect everything happens for a recesses. Like this commercial break. Did you need 15 seconds away from music? Or 15 seconds to eat or Reese's? Perhaps it's true.

Starting point is 01:21:04 Everything happens for a recesses. Agents who are realtors do more than open doors. They analyze market trends, interest rates, comps. They can tell you about flood zones, mixed use zones, and decode acronyms like HOA, APR, MLS. They connect you to lawyers, contractors, Even Phil, the Searoscope guy. They negotiate, coordinate, advocate for you, close the deal with you, and hand the keys to you.

Starting point is 01:21:31 They bring you home. Real Tours are members of the National Association of Realtors, right by you. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse? Being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question, because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction.

Starting point is 01:22:01 Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast.

Starting point is 01:22:35 Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a recess. Like this commercial break. Did you need 15 seconds away from music? or 15 seconds to eat or Reese's. Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a recesses. As moms, we do everything we can to keep our kids safe. We babyproof. We buckle seatbelts. We walk

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Starting point is 01:23:56 On this episode of plant killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer, bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts. This story has a happy ending.

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Bigfoot Society - Welcome to Planet Strange! | Thom Powell

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