BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 157: The Money Date: What You Should (And Definitely Should Not) Do to Align Your Finances as a Couple

Episode Date: December 28, 2020

Calling all couples! You and your partner may be on the same page financially, or off in two different directions, regardless of where you’re at, it’s a great time to start having money dates! In this episode, Mindy and Scott are going solo, talking through why money dates are such a crucial part of any healthy relationship. This isn’t just talk, both Mindy and Scott are adamant about money dates, they do them often with their partners as well! If you’re an individual listening to this episode, you may feel a bit intimidated by the concept of a money date. Do you just sit down and talk about index funds and taxes for an hour? No! A money date can be a perfect time to be alone as a couple, talk about the future, make some positive changes, and hold each other accountable for being the best version of yourselves.  If you have a partner who may be a bit averse to the concept of a money date, have no fear, Mindy and Scott have perfected their plan for setting up a successful money date, and how to make it enjoyable when you’re in it. With the new year coming up very soon, this is the perfect time to plan a money date with your special someone, you won’t regret it! In This Episode We Cover What is a “money date” What to do before you suggest a money date to your partner How to make the money date successful and what topics to bring up Following up on your money date and setting up systems for success The importance of keeping your ideas simple in a money date How to present the idea to a partner who may not be too keen on finances  Why money dates help create healthier, happier relationships  And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Wheel of Life Worksheet Money Date Template Finance Review Guest Onboarding Check the full show notes here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/moneyshow157 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets of Money podcast show number 157, where Scott and I talk about how to have a money date with your partner. Set a time with your spouse that you both agree on to have this conversation. Again, don't do this right after a very stressful day at work. Pick the time of day or week that is really easy for you to have a nice conversation and sit down and have the conversation. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. With me as always is my getting a fresh start in 2021 co-host, Scott Trunch. It's just truly remarkable how you mint these new introductions every time, Mindy.

Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else. We're here to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe that financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. That's right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big-time investments in assets like really. estate, start your own business, or simply get started with some new goals with your spouse, will help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so that you can launch yourself towards those dreams. Scott, one of the things that we hear from couples over and over again when we interview them on the show is that they have a regularly scheduled money date with their partner. And we've never really talked about how to have a money date with your partner. I think

today would be great to give kind of a step by step or set some guidelines for our listeners so that they can start off 2021 with a brand new outlook on their financial future. Yeah, I love it. This is something that I think is really important. And I think that's more of a general goal-setting conversation and then talk about how money specifically, I think, fits in that and how to have those conversations and be prepared in that. But like, this is something that I do. I know you do, you and and Carl are on the same page. comes to your finances. And I wouldn't say that Mindy and I are the end-all be-all experts on this stuff. But we do nerd out about goal setting and this kind of stuff. And so I think that this could be a helpful conversation. We'll give you a couple of things to download if you're interested.

Those could be found at those show notes at biggerpockets.com slash money show 157. Those will include a couple of worksheets and those types of things if you're interested in and all free. But should we get into it, Mindy? I think we should. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one

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provided by Lead Bank, member FDIC. Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business owners who have streamlined their finances with Foun. Audible has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade. I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being.

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Most of the couples we speak to have a regular scheduled time to sit down with their partner and discuss their financial situation. Today, Scott and I are going to tell you how you can set one up with your partner to set you on the road to financial success. All right. So let's just go ahead and jump right into it. So if you're listening to this episode, you are probably this, it's either you and your spouse together or you on your own. And likely you are the one who's more of the goal setter or the person behind the driving force behind setting this up. If that's not true and your spouse is on board, you can probably skip some of what we're about to say. But if it is true and you need some help with that, listen on. So the first thing, if you're going to try to set up a money date or general goal setting discussion with your partner in the first place, the first part is actually setting that meeting and doing it in what I call peak state.

if you're dragging your partner along and they don't really want to be there or you're doing it yourself on a day where you're tired and exhausted, you're going to have a bad time. We're going to set mediocre goals and you're not going to get excited and realize your vision. So what does peak state mean? It doesn't mean it's like the best you've ever felt in your life, but everyone goes through these like ebbs and flows of when we're feeling really good and when we're feeling a little bit down in the dumps or whatever. And you want to, if possible, create a situation where you're setting these goals in a situation where you're in a great mood. That's probably maybe after you've had your coffee in the morning

or after light to moderate exercise or after a really good day at work or on a weekend. It's probably not after six beers or after a hard day of work where you're a little demoralized or after a fighting match between your kids. Mindy, how do you think about your peak state? My peak state is probably right after I've gotten up. I've had my coffee.

and I am relaxed and ready to go. My unpeak state is probably right after I get the girls to bed because they don't like to go to bed. They like to fight about going to bed. Every night it's the same argument. Why can't I do this? Why do I have to go to bed so early? Why can't I stay up later?

Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's really not the best time for me to be setting my goals or talking about where I want to see myself financially in five years. So that's not the best time for me. And another good place is maybe on the beach on your honeymoon. Yeah. So Virginia and I did this while we were on our honeymoon on the beach. Yeah, it was after a workout and all that stuff.

And you do it when you're feeling really, really good. And if you're not, you just postpone it and do it another time. But yeah, whatever you need to do to buy that peak state from your spouse in particular and bring it yourself, I think is key. So, you know, you may have to work and earn that one. So I don't know how wives do this for husbands. But for husbands with wives, I have now four or five weeks of experience and things like massages, you know, honeymoons or trips, doing lots of the dishes for several weeks in a row, making a huge dent in cleaning the house or whatever.

Those things all tend to be ways to put your spouse into a really good mood. Big smile and greeting, you know, extra big one every day when you come home or whatever it is. Whatever it is you need to do, I think, to set that up and get that conversation and build that excitement, I think, is key. without trying to force them into it. This is not a drag your spouse into the conversation type of event. Otherwise, you're going to set some mediocre goals that aren't really going to get bought in and you're not going to be motivated to achieve them. Yeah.

Another thing I want you to think of when you are thinking about setting a money date is no accusations. If you are listening to this without your spouse, you are the one who is the one who wants to make changes to your financial situation. Accusing your partner of being the reason that. we have to have this money date in the first place. It's not the right way to get buy-in from your spouse. Here is what I would like. I would like our financial situation to change. I think it is within our means to do this. I would like to do it with you. I would like to have a conversation together. Let's start off by looking at our financial page. Let's have a financial picture. Let's look at what our goals are. What are your goals? Where do you see yourself in five years? Let's talk

these things through in a non-confrontational way. That is the best way to get buy-in in this. You're both in this together. It is not a competition. It is not a battle or it shouldn't be a battle. It should be a conversation where you're both on the same page and moving forward every single time you have this conversation. Yep. And I also think, you know, another rule that is closely aligned with that and that can avoid that accusatory state in these meetings or this, this date is to come prepared with some homework and be ready to go with like, here's what I think, here's a vision that I'm painting for our future together. And this should be based in, grounded in what you know about yourself and what you know about your partner, right? Like,

this is your spouse or the person that you're going to be planning your financial future with. Surely you know some of the things that they like to do or the world in which they'd like to live. And surely, as you paint a vision or begin the process of mapping that out and how you want to move your financial position forward, that it supports those things that that partner wants to do in some of those ways. So we'll get into this in a great detail here. But I think that that's the third piece of this is if we're going to rephrase those, if we're going to restate all these three rules, it's set the goals in a peak state condition when you're both feeling up to it, energized, invigorated, and bought into the process. don't accuse your partner of being the one that's holding you back from the goals, attack it together. And three, drive the meeting yourself and come prepared with your homework and your plans

to your initial stab at painting a vision for the future together and how you want to get there. Okay, so those are the rules of the money date. Let's talk about things that you should do before you come to the money date. You can't just say, let's have a money date. Okay, go. You need to come prepared. You need to do your homework. And you should not expect your spouse to be as prepared as you are. That, unless you're both listening to this together and you're on the same page, that is not going to happen. So come in with your feelings and your thoughts in a non-accusatory

way. So number one, you're going to want to track all of your spending and your net worth. And this is something that you can do retroactively by looking at past credit card statements and looking at your bank statements, and try to remember where your money has gone in the past month. Of course, we just had the holidays. You may have extra spending in December, but you can still see where money's going. Track your spending again in January.

Maybe go back to November or October and see where your spending is there too. And if you're really gung-ho, go back six months, because that'll give you a much clearer picture of what your average spending is, if you can get that much data. But that might take you a few hours, but that will give you the most,

I think, complete picture of what you, you're really spending on an average basis. Yeah, and Scott just said the word hour. This might sound daunting, but you're changing your entire financial life. It's worth an investment like this. Absolutely. Now, if this is, again, this is before the money date. So if some of that spending is, you know, controlled by your spouse, maybe they're not combined or whatever, my suggestion, I think, would be to just track everything you can track, everything that you spend, everything that you have easy access to in the bank accounts that you can see. And if your spouse is very open and amenable, ask for that. But if that seems like it's difficult, at least at first, before the talk,

just track what you can track and figure out what you're able to see there. Yes. And once you have tracked it all, go back and review it. When you're tracking it, you're doing it without any judgment. You're just writing down numbers, plugging in numbers. But once you have finished tracking your spending, go back and review where your money's going. And you will start to see patterns. If you're like me, if you're like anybody else, you will start to see patterns. Oh, look at me doing this on a consistent basis. And do I really need that?

Is it where is your money going where you really want it to go? I know I harp on this all the time. Regular listeners are going to say, wow, Mindy, you've never told us to track your spending every single episode. There's a reason I say track it. It is so eye-opening when you haven't tracked it. to when you first start tracking it, you're like, holy cow, I can't believe I'm spending money at these places. Because when you're spending the money, it's only a dollar, it's only $20, it's only $50, it's only whatever only means to you. But it adds up and it adds up a lot. And it's quite shocking. It was to me how much I was spending at different places.

And it was so easy to change how much I was spending just by being cognizant of where my money was going. Yep. And another tip on that. As you're doing that, you know, I think, it's critical to bucket your spending into no more than, let's call it, five to seven major categories. You know, if you need to, you can go slightly beyond that. But if you've got 25 light items in a spreadsheet, that is completely overwhelming and distracting and difficult to bring up with other parties. It's hard to do that at work with people who do this for a living. I can only imagine how difficult that will be to review that many light items with your spouse, especially if they're just getting started with this and getting introduced to these concepts. So bucket into

five to seven categories. Your utility bill, that's part of your housing expense. Your gas, that's part of your auto expense, along with your car payment, along with your insurance, along with your maintenance, those types of things. Bucket them together. Keep it simple, stupid when you're reviewing your spending there. Food, your grocery bill, and your eating out budget is food. Break them out within that category if you need to, if you want to go and take a deeper dive into it, if you think that's an inflection point. But for the purposes, your overall budget and your overall spending, lump them into those big categories and keep it super, super simple for those types of things.

Entertainment, miscellaneous, and other one giant category, dump it all in there, all the little things that you're getting, those types of things. Mindy's raising an eyebrow. You disagree with some of that categorization, Mindy? I do in the beginning when you are looking for places to cut. If you have an enormous gas bill, gasoline for your car, one of the, if you've got that lumped in with your insurance and your car payment, that can just be, well, I guess I just spend a lot on my car. When you break it out, you can see, oh, you know what, I never ever take

the, I never consolidate my errands, or I'm paying way too much for car insurance because I've never had it re-quoted, or, wow, my car payment is $1,000 a month and I make $3,000 a month take home. Maybe I should reconsider my choices. So for the purposes of, this spending, this first money date, maybe having the overall picture is good just to see it. But when you're starting to look at where you can cut, you definitely want to go in and nitpick everything. Absolutely. And I just want to chime in, I completely agree with that. I just think that for the purposes of reviewing your budget, you're trying to create a pie chart, basically, right? Where are my big buckets of spending? And if my car and auto spending is

$2,000, then I break into that, then I break that one back out. and look at that as an individual item, and then I did the exact same exercise, five to seven categories, and say, okay, great, now I'm spending all this money on gas or my car payment or my insurance. Wow, I can begin eliminating those,

but I can at least zoom out from the highest level and say, oh, that car payment seems like a place to look. That's an 80-20 rule where I can be impactful. Seems to be in that car or the housing or the food or the entertainment portions of my budget rather than these other categories. And then, of course, you go in and do that deep dive, That's the whole point of that to make sure to figure out which item I want to cut back on this month or the next six months.

Okay, that's fair. I'll give you that, Scott. The next thing you want to do before your meeting actually happens is to prepare a vision for your family. And that's you preparing the vision for your family. It's okay for this vision to morph overtime and it will morph overtime because once you get into the money date, you're going to ask your spouse to do the same thing. prepare a vision for the family. During the money date, you're going to compare those visions, but we're not to the money date yet. We're just doing the setup.

So you want to make sure that you have, you know, what's important to you? Do you want to know where you want to live in five years or do you want to know where your kids are going to school? Do you have children? Is it a family situation? It's an overall. Your first money date is very, very broad. In five years, I want to have a child or I want to be done having children.

In five years, my oldest daughter will be out of the house, almost, which is actually kind of exciting. But also a little sad. I kind of feel like I'm not old enough to have a kid that age, but I am definitely old enough to have a kid that age. You know, just what do you see? I want to be able to pay for her college. So in five years, my goal is to have enough money to pay for her college so she doesn't have to take out student loans. Yeah. And when it comes to this vision stuff, I'm sure you've heard it a million times from different places. We're not the people inventing this, of course. But my advice would just be to keep it simple again. Don't write pages and pages in this vision, at least not the first time. Just do something that's like two or three paragraphs, less than half a page typed in Microsoft Word or Google Sheets or something like that. And just say, kind of think about things like, where do I want to live? What do I want my day-to-day life to be like? What do I want to do What do I want to do I want to do I want to exercise?

Do I want to eat? Do I want to be healthy? Do I want to enjoy times with time with friends and family? Do I want to be doing impactful work of whatever type it is that you might want to be doing? What kind of environment do you want to be? We're in Denver, Colorado by the mountains and beautiful ski areas and hiking. Do you want to be there? Do you want to be by the beach?

Do you want to be in the wilderness in the woods, you know, or by a lake? Like what is it about your environment that you want to be in? what do you want your family life to be like, what kind of family do you want? And then just go around that. And so a great way, if you're struggling with this vision concept, to just get basically started, is to download what's called the wheel of life. So it's a very simple circular, spread piece of paper. We'll link to it in the show, a version of it in the show notes. And it's just kind of, it creates arbitrary life categories like career, money, health, you know, business, if you own a business, fun, leisure.

relationships, mental health, and learning, those types of things. And you basically rank yourself, like, am I miserable in this category of life, or am I ecstatic?

I mean, miserably being a one, ecstatic being a 10. And after you map it out, if you can follow along with what I'm saying here, you'll get like either a circle if you're really well balanced,

or you'll get like a very spindly little thing where you're like eight on one and two on the other. Anyways, this can be a very helpful tool and just kind of getting you an idea about where you feel you're strong, where you feel you're weak in life, and where you want to begin focusing on that vision. Like, what do you, where do you want to be? So I recommend downloading

that and just filling it out. It'll take a few minutes and give you kind of a picture, a zoomed out view of how you self-assess your life, which I think can help you write that vision. The next thing you want to do is set a time with your spouse that you both agree on to have this conversation. Again, don't do this right after a very stressful day at work. Pick the time of day or week that is really easy for you to have a nice conversation and sit down and have the conversation. Make sure your spouse is available at that time. Don't force them into anything. Again, you're asking them most likely to make some changes to their life that they may not be really excited about making. So a quiet evening where you don't. You don't. You're just a quiet evening where you

don't have any distractions. And one of those distractions might be children. If you have young children and you can't have a time, there isn't a time available to have it after they go to bed, get a babysitter. Schedule somebody to come over or take the kids someplace else so that you have an uninterrupted conversation time. This conversation is going to take a while. It is not a five-minute conversation. It's not a 30-minute conversation. And you don't want to be rushed because you're talking about your financial future. So sit down with your spouse, have some snacks, have some light drinks. And Scott and I were like, hmm, maybe we should say skip the alcohol during the conversation. Alcohols for after the conversation.

Yes. Have a bottle of wine chilling for afterwards. But during the conversation, you want to be clearheaded and open to the discussion. Yeah. And I want to go, you know, it's going to be different for everybody. But Mindy, you and I, we both just talked about this while we were kind of thinking through the show. us today, both of our peak states are kind of in the morning, not the early morning necessarily for me, but in the morning hours, you know, right around, right around this time. We record these

podcasts around 9 or 10 in the morning, Denver time. And that's about my peak state. That's what I feel like the best. The coffee is kicked in and I'm starting to feel very energized. I feel wide awake and ready to get going. Prepare your goals, whenever that time is for you. It may be in the morning, it may be in the afternoon, maybe in the very early morning if you're Mindy. But prepare it then. And then I would bias towards moving more towards your partner's peak time, whenever they're going to be feeling really good, when you go do at your partner date. Because, you know, you want to set that up. And I bet you that's not going to be on a stressful day after work.

It may be on a Friday night earlier in the evening on a date before you have the drinks. that could absolutely be it. But just I would think about what it is, what your partner's peak state would be before setting that up. And then, like Mindy said, making sure you have a quiet, dedicated time and space set up for that. Good tip, Scott. Yes, you want your partner to be on board.

And their peak state is more important than your peak state for this first conversation. Yeah, especially if you were able to set some time alone to do it, to figure out what kind of you want or your first draft of it that you might present at this meeting. That might be helpful. The last thing we want you to do before the money date is prepare an agenda and stick to it during the date. What does an agenda look like, Scott? I don't think an agenda has to be overwhelming. It might be three points.

It might be get alignment on your vision. It might be determine some of the goals that you need to do for the next year to move towards that. And then to set a cadence for regular money dates and goal reviews on an ongoing basis. It might be as simple as that, just those three things. And I'm going to say write this down on a piece of paper so it's not your computer screen that they can't see necessarily, but this is a piece of paper that you have. This is what we're going to do. Let's talk about our vision.

So during the money date, bring your piece of paper that says, this is my vision. This is what I think would be great to have for our family, for our couple, for our household. And compare it to what their vision is. This can be rather eye-opening because, not everybody's vision is the same. Really, really read through your spouse's vision. Let them go first. Let them explain anything that you have questions about. This is what I want. This is where I see us going. Yep. And you know you will know your spouse. So you may, we hope, a little bit better than we do. So you don't have to come with the draft if you think your spouse will just want to work from scratch with it.

you can have written down your thoughts somewhere else and be prepared with them to contribute to the conversation, but you don't need to have it prepared if that's not the way your spouse will roll. On the other hand, if your spouse really needs something very visual, you can bring that as a starting point. Or if they are proactive, you can ask them to bring their own and begin working with that one. It's just whatever way you think is the most healthy way to work between you and your spouse, I think is the right way for you. There's a whole bunch of options here, But I think it is we're erring towards the side of thinking through how the situation might go for a less than enthusiastic spouse, at least at first, and how to win them on board with this brand. So just if that's you, think about what you need to do to get there. Oh, and by the way, you have additional homework before the money date, which is to win your money date, which I think we mentioned earlier. But do whatever it is you need to do, that's nice to bring them in to get them really excited, whether that's the dishes for two months in a row, creating free time. with the kids where you take the kids away for a day and give your spouse some alone time

or whatever else it is, that's a set of nice, wonderful things you can do to make sure that your spouse is thrilled with you and excited for this talk. Do it. Spoken like a true, I've been married for five minutes guy. That's right, yes. But it's great advice. It's great advice. You don't want to start a whole week of fights with your spouse and then be like, hey, we got to talk about money now. That is not going to get a lot of buy-in. And look, if you have your date all set up and everything's ready to go and you have a big fight right before it and you're not in peak state, postpone it and try again another time, right? It's all it is.

It's like, don't overthink this. You just want to be in a good mood and feel in and both being bought in and excited before you start setting goals for your life together. Otherwise, you're going to set mediocre goals or not be, you know, really dreaming up the possibilities and bought into them. once your spouse has shared all of their goals, start asking, how can we make this happen questions? Yeah. And I would output that into a paragraph format. Right. So this is, when you're talking about the vision, two separate things. The first step is the vision, which again, I would just, I would just jot down in two or three paragraphs, something very simple. We're going to live here. Our life's going to look like this. Day to day to day, you know, Jane's going to do this and Joe's going to do this. And yeah, yada. And you have a couple paragraphs on

that. And that's without worrying about the how. That's not goals. It's not, I need this much money to get there. It's just exactly what you'd like your life to be in three, five, seven, nine, 15 years, whatever you think is an appropriate timeline to get there. You just map that out and don't worry about the how. Then we get to the goals, the goal setting part, which I know is what Mindy's very excited about. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your taxed

refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code Pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in Eadle. Achieve your financial goals for

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Okay, you want to come up with a plan for success. Remember, large changes are going to be met with hesitation. Your spouse is not really excited to change everything about them, especially if they are the perhaps reason that you are having this conversation to begin with. If you're not on the same financial page, chances are good. You're listening to this. You're the one who's better with money. And I'm doing air quotes, but you can't hear those.

So come up with a plan for success. Small changes are going to give you the best opportunity for that success. and they're easier to implement and become permanent. I don't want to cut out all my spending at Target. Maybe I cut out going every other week, or maybe I don't go on weekends, or maybe I only go with a list and stick to the list, and I can't buy anything that isn't on the list.

There are lots of ways to make changes to your spending without having them be a draconian, and you have to do this. It feels so awful to be told what to do. So coming up with a plan for success isn't you telling your spouse. It's you asking your spouse. How do you think we can achieve this thing that we want to change? That's right.

Yeah. So it's all in the context as well of that bigger vision. Like, okay, great. Now I've got that vision. I want to live on the lake with a boat and spend no more than 20 hours a week working a job that I love that has high impact. That's part time. I don't need the money.

I've got, you know, I'm, and I'm spending most of my time with my family. We have friends over all the time. Okay, great. I'm making this up. This is not my vision. That's just one that I invented here. Okay. And so that vision requires now a certain financial position and other things that you're going to have to do. So maybe it's, maybe it's you're going to have to develop a 40,000 a year in passive income over the next five to seven or 10 years. Great. Now, how do I go about doing that? Now I've got a one year or, three-year or whatever, smart goal, right? A goal that is something measurable that I can begin working towards. And then from there, you have to have the discussion about the best way to achieve that. Is it by compressing my budget? Is it by focusing on investments like real estate or other business

opportunities? Or is it by just buckling down at work and getting that big promotion so you can get the next payday or whatever? Those are things that you're going to have to work on with your spouse to figure out what's going to be right, although you should come in again with some directional guidance about how you think the best way to achieve it is so that you can initiate the conversation. It's one thing to initiate the conversation and have a baseline of a plan. It's another to tell your spouse what to do in that conversation. Again, you're driving the meeting and driving this change, but you want to do it with buy-in and get input. Yeah, I don't think I can stress how important.

it is to make small changes first. The five-year plan is not something that gets started tomorrow, jumping in with both feet and cutting out everything or completely overhauling absolutely everything about you because that's going to be really, really difficult to maintain. What you want to do is look at the five-year plan, okay, I want to have a better job. I want to increase my income. Okay, great. Let's look at what you need to do to increase your income. You need to change job. now might not be the best time to be looking for a new job, but it's always a good time to be learning a new skill that can help you get to that next job. There's always an opportunity to look at different jobs in the same field. A Purple Life said that she increased her income every time she changed

jobs. So she changed jobs frequently. And the old advice not to change jobs and not to look like a job Hopper is no longer really valid. So if your job doesn't have a great, your company doesn't have a great potential for increasing your income, maybe it's time to look at other companies. See what's going on in the industry. Obviously, if it's a volatile industry, maybe now is not the best time to try and get an extra couple of bucks. Maybe that would be better served after we have figured out coronavirus. Absolutely. I think that's 100% correct. The temptation I always have, because I get so motivated, because, again, you're setting the goals in peak state. You're feeling really wonderful and enthusiastic.

Your spouse are on board. You've just done a million nice things for your spouse. Your relationship is at its peak level. Lots of things are going right, going into your date. And you're, like, motivated to make all these changes at once. And you create a completely unsustainable plan. So I just did this recently, and I have to walk back and go back and try to be a little, make some smaller changes that are more sustainable for me in order to move towards our vision.

And so just think about that as you're doing that. and know that the bias is going to be towards, you know, doing everything all at once. But if you can do something that's sustainable, you're going to be much more successful in the long run. Yeah. And as you find success in making small changes, then you can increase those changes or add in new changes. The last thing we want you to do when you're setting up a money date is to set a regularly scheduled date. Weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually. I do believe if you're first starting out, a weekly or monthly date is going to have better success for you, I really want to do weekly. I want you to do every Friday night, every Saturday morning, every, you know, just to check in with your spouse. Hey, we were going to do this

this week. How did it work out? I keep saying spouse. I mean to say partner, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be that person. Oh, I think I think it's fine. Yes, we want to use, we'll buy us towards partner, but I think that it's, I forgive you, Mindy. Thank you. Okay. So, yeah, I think that that's right. You know, set the regular cadence. And by the way, this is beginning to sound overwhelming. It shouldn't be. You need to spend the time you need to set up your personal vision in those types of things.

But your first money date can be an hour or 45 minutes to bang these things out. Perfect is the enemy of good in this case. And your vision, what you want, your goals will change over time. So don't lock in too hard to any of these things, especially at first. Write that vision, keep it in a draft, update it regularly at the, these weekly or monthly things, as you kind of learn more and move towards it, the target will move slightly over time. So again, you don't have to get it perfect. Perfect's the enemy a good when it comes to this stuff. And these regular cadence meetings don't have to be like a two

hour in-depth board meeting where you go through every detail in your personal lives in a business like fashion. It can be a 15 or seven-minute check-in where you just kind of walk through spending really quickly and then write down some goals together that you want to to get done for the next week, three to five goals each or one to two goals each. It does not have to be an overwhelming process if you're going to do it, especially if you're going to do it on the higher cadence, that more frequent cadence, like weekly or monthly. If you're going to do it quarterly or annually, maybe you set a little bit more time, I guess. I just want to highlight that when you are the one who is driving this conversation during your subsequent check-ins,

praise your partner's successes while kind of highlighting your failures. Because when you are not seen as perfect, when they are being praised for the things that they're doing, the positive reinforcement is going to get more buy-in and more cooperation down the road. And, you know, this sounds, this almost sounds kind of manipulative, and I don't mean it to be, but you want your partner to be on board with you. So give them every opportunity to feel good about what they're doing. Absolutely. I mean, look, if you're listening to this, if you're listening to this together with your spouse, great. You're probably not going to have this issue. But if you're listening to this and you're trying to, again, get your spouse to approach this and begin doing these types of things, you need to give a lot more, especially at the beginning of this, to get them on board, right? And so that means if you want to do a weekly or monthly review, you've got to buy that, that goodwill to a certain degree, right? And how do you do that? You

You, again, go out of your way, make sure that they're in peak state and excited to go about this every time you go and me about these goals and that it's showing, it's helping them reap rewards in their lives, right? So that comes down to, you know, how do you make it easy? How do you make it automatic? How do you make it at the same time? How do you get them excited about it? And perhaps one way to do that, which is what another one of our tips here is reward yourself and your partner as you move towards those goals, right? So what is it that you like? Do you like to travel?

Do you like dates? But what is it that you guys like? And how do you make sure that those are granted as you move towards the goals that you're trying to achieve and hit a couple of weeks in a row? Yeah, I do want to say that if you are maybe if you're working towards fixing your finances, maybe your reward is a low-cost reward, such as a delicious chocolate bar. Or we get to go out for dinner at a relatively inexpensive restaurant. or we get to go out for drinks and have a babysitter,

or we get to go on a hike, whatever it is that you reward yourself with, just don't undo all the positive work you just did by, you know, we went to the Bahamas, all expenses paid. I guess all expenses paid is not... Make it proportional if that's the case, right? So if you're $50,000 in debt and one of the milestones is paying off $25,000,

well, simultaneously put together that trip to the Bahamas, if that's what it takes to motivate you. But make sure that, yeah, I would, you know, This is bigger pockets money. Let's be responsible with the money decisions and those types of things and make sure that they're effective and motivating you and your partner. And also, you know, continue, you know, don't completely derail you off your goals. Don't finance that trip with the credit card. Okay. So the last tip here, you know, following the money date is to set up systems. In fact, I wouldn't even focus on the work necessarily after your money, your money date.

I would focus on setting up the systems that will automate that. So for, for, example, one of my things is I really want to improve my daily routine that I do every single day. I want to make sure I get a couple of things around exercise, reading, self-education. Yes, I'm starting to be one of those guys and go into meditation. I've always been skeptical of that, but enjoying that so far. And so I'm just starting to do some of those types of things. And the key to sustaining that is to set up a system that makes sure that that happens no matter what every single day. there's no way that it can't happen, right? And so that's been first thing in the morning for me.

I have a little small routine and I also have the option to extend any part of that. But I never miss my six minute routine and I guess seven minute routine. And I can extend it if I am feeling good about it and want to keep doing it. So. Well, that's interesting that it takes you six or seven minutes. I love that. That's anybody can do six or seven minutes. You could do a lot, almost anything for six or seven minutes. Yeah. I mean, you can, you know, if, For example, tracking your spending was a big part of that. You could review your spending for one of seven minutes every day, right? You can browse one article for two minutes every single day, right, on a topic that you're trying to learn more about, right?

You can, I don't know, there's a lot of things you can do, but if you can automate it so that you're able to just do at least one minute of activity every single day that moves you towards one of your top five to seven goals, I think that will be, that will make it. huge difference. I completely agree, Scott. Or, or better yet, do nothing and have it happen anyways, right? So that's like, I'm going to automate that part of my paycheck goes straight into my 401k, even better. And we want to hear about your money date successes. Because this is so key to so many other couples that we know who are financially successful, because the money date is so key to their success, we want to hear about your success too. Send us an email, Mindy at Biggerpockets.com, Scott at Biggerpockets.com. If you would like to share a private message, go to our Facebook group and share it with the entire group.

The group is there to boost you up, not to make you feel bad about any past issues that you have had. They are here to support you in your journey, and they are super supportive. We have some really great members in our group. You can find that at Facebook.com slash groups slash BP money. But we really want to hear what's working for you or do you have, are you hitting up on an issue that you need some help with? We can crowdsource that. Absolutely. While we're there, one of the things that people can struggle with is just basic getting started and templates.

Like an example can be helpful sometimes. So again, we'll have examples. I think there will be about four worksheets. One will be, and these are just simple Microsoft Word worksheets. We are not goal-setting professionals. We're goal-setting nerds. So feel free to download them and print them out and modify them however you'd like at biggerpockets.com slash money show 157 if you're interested in those types of things. There's also a couple of really good books on the subject. One that I read recently was the Miracle Morning and more specifically the Miracle Morning Millionaires, which is by Hal Elrod and David Osborne. Really enjoyed that and that I think actually made a big impact on some of the goals that I'm setting. I'm still not necessarily a mourning person, but I really liked what they had to say in the book. The power of, oh. Hold on. I want to address that comment. I'm not a morning person. Scott once

wrote an article that says, I don't have to get up early to be successful in life or something like that on the Bigger Pockets blog. Yeah, I do, I do see the benefits in getting up early. I'm just not very consistent about it and don't think I will already to be. But I think that having a daily routine that encompasses some of the big things and the habits that you need to set to become successful over time. I think that's critical. I'm still skeptical about whether that needs to specifically happen in the morning, especially the early morning or if it can happen in the late morning or afternoon. Well, I think that you can sleep later than some of us and you can also stay up later. So if you've got the same 16 hours of awakeness, it's just shifted on the clock, who am I to tell you when

your 16 hours has to start? Yeah. I'm a big of an open mind and I'm beginning to attempt to get up earlier. We'll see how long I sustained it, Mindy. Maybe if I sustained it for a long time and am able to get up earlier, I'll change my tune on it. Well, what's another book you like on goal setting, Mindy? Scott, I really like the power of positive thinking by Norman Vincent Peel. This book is older than dirt, but it is such a good book. And I have a problem with people who's, oh, just change your mindset and everything will change. Well, no, you also have to do work towards your goals. But changing your mindset can help you start to believe that you can achieve those goals. So this is not a book about, oh, just change your mindset and everything will fall into place.

But it is a book on how you can change your mindset and help yourself get to where you're going. If you think, what is that phrase? If you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Whether you think you can. Yeah. Yeah. So this helps you get in a better place to start believing that changes. It doesn't make the work non-existent. You still have to do the work.

That's right. Yeah. On that note, there's another kind of three more, I would say, practical books that are kind of more templatized are going to be journals that I think, you know, I've used or we've both used in the past. So the first is Living Your Best Year ever, which is a journal from Darren Hardy. The second is the Bigger Pockets Intention Journal, which is a 90-day journal, the living your best year ever, will be a one-year 52-week journal. And then the 12-week year is another book that kind of gives you a framework around setting goals

in quarterly chunks or 12-week chunks with a week off at the end for a break. All five of these books, the Miracle Morning, Miracle Morning millionaires, the power of positive thinking, living your best year ever, 12-week year, and the intention journal from bigger pockets

are going to be linked to, again, in the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash money show 157. All right. So we're going to recap this. And if you're just listening and you want a 90 second overview, well, this will be it. So let's dive into it. What are the rules that we have for the money date? One, set them in peak state, right?

Make sure that you are in your most energetic and enthusiastic state of mind before going and setting the goals and then do whatever is in your power to make sure that your spouse is in their peak state coming into the conversation. Do your homework and come prepared with an agenda, be ready to drive the the conversation and don't frame it from an accusatory position. Frame it as a you're in this together and we're going to go out there and build our best life together. And here's how money can support that vision. Yeah, Scott said, do your homework. One of the things that you need to do before the money date is be prepared. Track your spending and your net worth. So you come to the date with a

position of knowledge. This is where we are at right now. This is where we want to be. We want to be have your spouse prepare a vision for the family and you prepare a vision for the family. This isn't something that you should prepare together. You should each prepare it separately and then come to the date to have that discussion. Once you've tracked your spending, review the numbers to see if there's any patterns that are easily changeable. The money wins that you get in the beginning are going to be the small wins that you can cut out without actually missing them. Yep, that's right. During the money date, make sure that's sure you've got that mutually agreed upon time. You're both energetic and in peak state. You've got

the quiet and alone time to do it. You've got that prepared agenda. Get alignment on that vision. Mindy said prepare them separately. I think that is the best way to go about doing it, but know your spouse. And if that's not going to work and you have to start from scratch together, and that's the healthier way to do it for you guys. Have that discussion beforehand and do that. Discuss what needs to be done to achieve the vision. That's where you begin framing out those goals. Come up with that plan and then set a cadence to review. progress towards it regularly. While you're doing that, again, focus on progress, not perfection, good is better than perfect, and begin working towards those goals. Don't set enormous goals

upfront that are going to require you to be a perfect paragon of virtue and success right from the beginning. Focused on something that is easily achievable that can be done every single day without fail. And if you can, just a minute or two on each goal per day can make meaningful progress towards it. Yes, highlight your spouse's successes. Your partner is probably not the driving force for this change. So you want to make sure that you're highlighting what they're doing right. Don't really focus on their negatives, but maybe focus on the failures that you have had that week or the missteps that you have made, hey, I've done this, but I can do better next week. it

that sounds so manipulative, Scott, and I don't mean it to be manipulative, but you want them to feel good about what they're doing. So continue to highlight what they're doing and praise their successes. Yeah, I just think genuine joy

of working towards the goals together and a system of rewards that you set up that really that you enjoy, but really your spouse enjoys is the right way to go about setting those things up. I love it. I love it.

And when you're having your, in the beginning, when you're having your more regularly scheduled meetings, weekly or monthly is the best choice for you right now, just so you can continue to stay on top of your goals. If you have a goal and, hey, we're going to change our finances. Talk to you in a year. It's probably not going to set you up for success. Continually talking about it, revisiting frequently is going to give you the most chance for success.

See what's working and what isn't working. And if there's something that just isn't working, scratch it or move it to the, back table and focus on the things that are working. That's right. And don't be an authoritarian when it comes to setting these goals and the money dates and those types of things, focus on progress, not perfection, and keep it simple. This is not an hour a week commitment that you guys both need to do to review everything in detail. It can just be a small check-in to keep you on track and reset. You know, Scott, if you'd like some information about what sort of things you should be talking about, on November 1st, we tried something new.

where we reviewed a listener's finances to see if we could identify any tweaks that he could make that would have a larger impact on his finances. And we discovered that people really like that episode. So we created an entire new weekly episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast where we are reviewing people's finances

on real time, real life stories from people who listen to the show on the path to financial dependence like you and are looking to see if they can optimize their finances. These episodes release every Friday, including this very next Friday, which is January 1st. Happy New Year. We sit down with Wayne from New Jersey and talk about where he can make changes in his finances to further him down the path towards financial independence.

Yeah, I think that's a great, like, that could be a very good first step as well in this. It's like, well, first, of course, you know, the number one key is to listen to the extra episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, the finance review, which, indeed. and I are really excited about. So again, it's a great given step one. But, you know, a step two could be like, after you listen to a few of those, if you feel, hey, I'm a little in over my head and it's going to take me a good six months of continuing self-education to really develop a clear financial plan, maybe it's worth as part of your money date setting up a goal to meet with a financial planner and begin kind of mapping out that approach as well. Or maybe the, or maybe the,

that listening to a couple of financial reviews will help you do that on your own. Oh, Scott, we talked to Kyle Mast way back on episode 41 about how to find a good financial planner. What you're looking for is a fee-only financial planner, and you can find them at the XY Planning Network. But what you want is somebody to look at your situation, see where you're at, where you want to be, and make a path for you to get there. A financial planner is a really great asset for you, even when you're starting out. One of the things that Kyle said during that episode was, you know, you don't have to have a million dollars in net worth before you sit down with a financial planner. And you don't have to sit with them every month, every year.

You can go and talk to them and then come back in five years and talk to them again after you've made some progress, after your net worth has grown, after you've paid down your debt or whatever, and see, you know, get another bit of direction. Yeah, and remember, Mindy and I are not financial planners. Everything we're doing is for entertainment purposes only and those types of things. But perhaps in listening to those, you may discover some things from other people's financial positions that could help your own. Yes.

Our little disclaimer there. Yes, yes, we are not financial planners. But we have been around for 100 years. Okay. And, yeah, like I said, these are part of the same Bigger Pockets Money podcast. you don't have to subscribe to anything new. They'll just start showing up in your feed on Fridays. I have had a lot of fun recording them,

and we're looking for more people to talk to. If you'd like us to review your finances on the show, please fill out the form at biggerpockets.com slash finance review. Absolutely. Now, last tip here is I think a big thing to do as you're kind of heading into the new year and setting these goals is it can feel like a vacuum when you're talking about finances,

maybe the stuff that we're talking about on the money show is not stuff that your family, friends, or colleagues are talking about, and it's kind of a different viewpoint on how to live your life and how to run your personal financial situation. And that can be overwhelming or demotivating. So what I recommend is finding a way

to saturate yourself with more of this type of stuff. And one way to do that is social media. So we've got, of course, the Bigger Pockets Money, Facebook group, the Bigger Pockets Real Estate Rookie, Facebook group, you can just type these into Facebook and find them. You can follow Money folks or some of the many of the guests that we've had on Instagram. You can join other communities. Hey, I love our Bigger Pockets Money community and I'm the most active there, but I'm also a member of other communities out there, like the Mustachians community for Mr. Money

mustache and the Choose FI has a great community and the FinCon community is great. But go join these communities online, especially the Bigger Pockets Money community, of course. And just saturate yourself with that stuff. I think it's going to be a lot more healthy and we'll keep you motivated and focused on your goals as you see that those kinds of things popping up in your feed rather than unhealthy stuff. That's really funny that you say that, Scott. As I scroll through Facebook, that's basically all I see is Bigger Pockets Money, Bigger Pockets Official Group, Real Estate Rookie, Choose FI, Choose FI, Real Estate, and one that I am a member of because I'm a real estate agent. And it's, I'm always thinking and talking about money and real estate. And I'm doing a lot with money and real estate.

And it's just... I'm not, I'm not hearing bad news. I'm not hearing about politics, political events, or whatever. I'm hearing about people succeeding with money and tough, interesting, nuanced debate on, you know, various different items like, should I go with this index fund versus this one that are almost so close, identical to same that it doesn't matter at all. Yet several hundred people. have an opinion on it. That's healthy stuff to be surrounding yourself with or more healthy than a lot of the other junk that used to show up in my Facebook feed. So that's what I just encourage people to do is figure out a way to surround yourself with that stuff. Turn off the news. Turn off the other stuff that's, yeah, you know, if you can, at least in a default basis and

make it so that the default is you're surrounding yourself with like-minded folks in the community because there are millions of them and there's lots of enthusiasm. Yes, and you will find that you are not the only frugal weirdo on the planet. It can be really difficult when you feel like you're an island and nobody else cares about money and nobody else talks about money and nobody else is cutting back and everybody else has a better car and everybody else has better clothes and better everything, everything. That's not the case. In most situations, that's not the case at all.

So it's really refreshing to get involved with a community that has the same mindset that you do. All right. So your homework for after this episode is one, go set up that money date. If you need help, you can download some of this free stuff we have on the website at BiggerPockes.com slash Money Show 157. Second, check out a book on goal setting. It can be any one of the ones we listed or you can just Google books on goal setting and figure out another one from there. Third, go check out the, just do exactly what you've always been doing and keep downloading the latest episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. They'll just be two a week now going forward. Our regular one on Mondays and then the finance review where we do an in-depth dive into a listener's personal finances on a weekly basis. And that will continue probably for the duration of 2021 and maybe in perpetuity. Perpetuity is a big word. And then lastly, go figure out a way to get your social media feeds to start showing you more personal finance, money, success, healthy, or investing content, and less junk and garbage from unhealthy folks in your lives. or conversations that are not productive or political debates especially.

I know those suck me and were used to before I kind of got my feed cleaned up. But go ahead and take control of that by signing up for accounts and then snoozing or blocking these stuff that is not productive. I love that idea, Scott. We have so many friends in the personal finance space and there are so many different voices out there. There is absolutely somebody there that can talk to you, speak your language and say the things in the way that you need to hear them in order to enact change. So check out the new bloggers,

check out the personal finance Twitter. Check out people that we've had on our show. We're going to continue to bring you people who are in this space sharing their money journey and showing you that this is possible no matter what position you're starting from. That's right. Well, should we get out of here, Mindy? We should. Scott from episode 157 of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, He is Scott Trench. I am Indy Jensen, and we will see you next year. The joke that never ever gets old.

The end of your joke that never gets old. I'm excited. I'm excited for that one. This has been quite a year. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye.