BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 16: Financial Security Through Passive Income with Joel Larsgaard

Episode Date: April 16, 2018

As a kid, Joel Larsgaard watched his parents work jobs they didn’t like to pay for things they didn’t need. They missed out on some of the priceless moments that life has to offer, culminating in bankruptcy when Joel was 12. We discuss how that... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Bigger Pockets Money, show 16. Even making $24,000 a year at my first job in radio, I was able to save up 20% down to put down on my first house that I purchased in 2009. And I think most people making that kind of money, I think that's impossible. Maybe I can get the 3.5% down to get an FHA loan, or maybe I can get 5% down and I'm still paying PMI every month. And I'm not okay with that.

I don't want to pay PMI on houses. I don't want to pay extra money that I don't need to pay. I'm not cool with fees. I'm not cool with needless debt. And so I think you can save you, but it starts with a frugal lifestyle. It's time for a new American dream, one that doesn't involve working in a cubicle for 40 years, barely scraping by. Whether you're looking to get your financial house in order, invest the money you already have, or discover new paths for wealth creation. You're in the right place.

This show is for anyone who has money or wants more. This is the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast. How's it going, everybody? I'm Scott Trench, and I'm here with my co-host, Miss Mindy. How's it going, Mindy? Scott, I am doing great. I am really excited about this new thing that we're going to try. We are implementing a new money tip that we'll share every week.

These should be tips that can have a big impact, but can be implemented in 10 minutes or less. Some of the money changes that we talk about on the show are really hard. These money tips should be easy. All right. So, Scott, can you give us today's money tip? All right. Today's money tip is simply to begin tracking your spending. You know, tracking your spending can be really either really hard where you go and download all your, you know, bank

account and credit card statements and just follow every money, the piece of money that you spend online and put it into a spreadsheet, or it can be really easy. I track my spending through mint and personal capital, but you can go with you need a budget or similar many other sites. Definitely go and look into signing up for one of these sites and start tracking your spending. You should be able to set up your accounts and begin getting a clear overall picture of how your money is being spent within 10 minutes or less on many of these sites. So go check that out and get some sort of picture of how you spend your money. And if you don't do it on one of those sites, go do it somewhere else in a spreadsheet because that's one of the most important things you can do

to understand your spending. Scott, this is my top tip that I tell everybody when they're first starting out. You can't know where your money's going if you aren't tracking it. And you can't tell it where to go if you don't know where it's going right now. So this is a really, really powerful way to start down the path to financial independence. And everybody has the ability to do this. Everybody has the ability to do it. And when I first started, I was doing it on literally on a piece of notebook paper. It's really just that easy. You just want to know where your money's going. Okay, so listeners, do you have any easy to implement tips to share with us? You can tweet us at BP Money Show. You can tweet me at Mindy at BP, or you can tweet Scott at S. Trench BP.

Awesome. Well, let's talk about today's guest today. Today we interview Joel Larsgard, And I love his story because this is a guy who started from scratch. I mean, his parents went bankrupt at 12 years old. And he started the real world out of college with $13,000 in student loan debt and a really low income from his full-time position. I don't think he said one of his first full-time positions a couple years out of college was $24,000 a year. So this is a guy who hustled, worked multiple jobs.

This is the story for you. If you want to learn how to make it on just pure hustle and not having that kind of high base income. This is a guy who is able to really build an incredible financial position over time through that. So definitely keep listening if that's a story you want to hear and learn from. Yeah, Joel has such a great story. I met him a few years ago at FinCon, the conference that we continually talk about on this show, and just listening to him talk and hearing how his parents' bankruptcy affected his life forever really is a powerful story. But before we get into today's show, we really want to thank everybody who listens. We are growing really, really

fast. And it is absolutely because of people who listen. I mean, if we don't have listeners, what's the point of making a show? But I am a little greedy and I would like to have more listeners. So I want to ask you the listener for a favor right now. Sharing our show with your friends is a really great way to help us out. And as you listen today, keep in the back of your mind, which one of your friends could really benefit from hearing this information. Send them a link to our show notes, which can be found at biggerpockets.com slash money show 15. Or are all of your friends already on a path to FI or avid listeners, you can still help us out. Leave us a rating or review on iTunes. That helps us share the show with other people too. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their

full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your taxed refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your

Monarch subscription with the code Pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch. dark.com code pockets. I love Matt, said no one ever. Nobody starts a business thinking, you know what would make this more fun?

Calculating quarterly estimated taxes. But somehow, every small business owner ends up doing it. Your dreams of creating, selling, and growing get replaced by late nights chasing receipts, juggling invoices, and wondering if that bad sushi lunch with Scott counts as a write-off. Change all that with Found. Found is a business banking platform built to take the pain out of managing money. It automatically tracks expenses, organizes invoices, and even preps you for tax season without you doing the heavy lifting.

You can set aside money for business goals, control spending with virtual cards, and find tax right-offs you didn't even know existed. It saves time, money, and probably a few years of life expectancy. Found has over 30,000 five-star reviews from owners who say, Found makes everything easier, expenses, income, profits, taxes, invoices even. So reclaim your time and your sanity. Open a found account for free at found.com. That's F-O-U-N-D dot com.

Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank, member FDIC. Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business online. owners who have streamlined their finances with Foun. Audible has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade. I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still

regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being. What makes Audible so powerful is its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years.

Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP Money. Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Show, Joel. Thanks for coming on today. How you doing? I'm awesome. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, well, great. You have an incredible story from what I've gathered. And yeah, I mean, can we just start from the beginning?

How did you first become interested in money? What was your first kind of introduction to money? Sure. Yeah, so my first introduction to money was actually going through some hard money times growing up as a kid. And my parents, awesome people, they're the best people, salt to the earth. They just didn't know much about handling money. And so they had a lot of tough times. they overspent. They had to work really hard to pay for the things that they were buying that they didn't need. And so one day when I was 12, I found out that my parents had to declare bankruptcy.

And this just kind of dragged on. It was this process that took months and months and months. And I remember waiting for someone to come and repossess the car that we had in the driveway that we just bought months earlier, brand new off a lot, a car that we didn't need. And so that was kind of scary times, just waiting there and hoping that the car would be there the next morning and then one morning it wasn't. And so going through that as a kid really cemented in my mind that I wanted security in life and having enough money, that's a big part of having security. How did your family kind of get through that? What kind of changed as you, you know, that happened when you're 12? What happened to your family kind of from the years of 12 to 18? How did you kind of cope with

that as a teenager and going into college, I guess. Yeah. So I would say there was a lot of turmoil. Even before that growing up, my parents, I remember, you know, they argued a lot about money. And I heard that. And that was a point of contention. And I know, you know, my mom wanted to stay home with us kids. You know, I've got two sisters. And she wanted to be there. But she had to work to pay the bills that they had racked up. And so that was a point of contention and something that we heard frequently throughout the house. And so that was always tough. And then this period of bankruptcy happened. And it all started really from my dad losing his middle management job. And so after that, he hadn't saved very well. And so he just kind of had to take the next job that came along.

And it wasn't a job that was in his field. It was a job that he was overqualified for. And so he just made less money. He had to work more hours. And it just became a sick cycle that made things worse and worse. And so, yeah, it was really tough times. Once they finally declared bankruptcy, they were able to start making small moves and they were getting better with their money. So by the time it led up to me going to college, like things were definitely on more solid ground. It was just really going through childhood and seeing that with job loss and then the bankruptcy. Yeah, it kind of shook my whole foundation as a person and it resolutely focused me on how I wanted to handle money in my life.

By the time you got to college, had they kind of figured out their finances? Or I'm thinking of how you paid for college and how you, you know, did you live at home? How did you get through college? Did you graduate with a ton of debt? I mean, that can really saddle you for decades to come. So I've worked since I was a kid too. And seeing this, it put this drive in me that I wanted to work. You know, I mowed neighborhood lawns.

And then I started working at the Chick-fil-A across from a high school when I was 14. So, you know, after school, I'd walk across the street and I'd work a three-hour shift. I'd work on Saturdays and I'd save up enough money to buy my first car cash. And so that was an $1,800 old school Toyota Camry. And I swear if I hadn't gotten in a wreck with it, I'd be driving it to this day. It was an awesome car. So I had a corolla when I was when I was a teenager. And it went from 0 to 60 and 13.2. Minutes? Yes, exactly. Seconds. That would be flooring it. So, yeah, they're amazing car.

and I still think I would recommend, you know, a corolla should be like the starter car for almost everyone these days. Yeah. I had one too. But nice, nice. Yeah, so essentially, I saw these things happen and I made a change right then and there when I was a kid. And then when I went off to school, I did go to a private school for my first two years. I had a lot of scholarships. So I only racked up about like 13 grand in student loan debt. And then I moved back in state because we had a state scholarship program for people that had a B average or higher. And so I came back and I finished my last two years of school for free. So when I finished college, I literally had $13,000 of student loan debt and I was able to pay that off in just a few years after school.

Awesome. What was your degree in? Communications, media studies. Awesome. So first of all, let's take a recap here. So you have this bankruptcy happen at 12 years old and you had kind of system shock where, you know, everything in your life was kind of scary, you know, uncertain because of these financial choices that your parents made and some of the consequences of those choices. And so you kind of resolutely were like, I'm going to work hard, I'm going to save up, I'm going to crush it, I'm going to go to college, you're going to get scholarships, I'm going to take advantage of all the opportunities to get a free education, and you're graduating with a very limited amount of debt and, you know, in a pretty good position from which to start

your career. So that's kind of how you kind of started, I guess it sounds like life here. And that's a pretty good foundation from which to kind of launch this career and aggressive pursuit of financial freedom, I guess. Is that a pretty solid recap of what your situation is? Yeah, for sure. And I think at that time, too, when I was graduating from college, the concept of financial freedom was over my head. When I knew was I didn't want to be insecure. And what I knew was I wanted to work hard to make sure that wasn't the case. And financial freedom was a concept that came along for me later on down the road, you know, a couple years later when I kind of started to

wait into those waters. And that changed me from just this like frugal mind. mindset, this penny pincher who was just almost like scared of life, scared of losing whatever I had saved or making a bad decision that would get me into rough waters like my parents have been in. And so instead of living life with this mindset that like money has this opportunity, I was thinking of it as I have to hold on to this money because if I don't, I could get into big trouble. And so, you know, that changed a few years later. As I kind of grew and learned and read, and I was like, you know what, money has this potential. It has this power. It has this ability to create security and to create a financial freedom in my life. And that's what I really

want. And I think there's a lot of people that I respect that have said similar things that, you know what, I was kind of saving up and building and investing. And I realized, I don't want to be a billionaire, but it can, instead of mega wealthy, it can make you mega secure and allow you to live the life that you want to live. You know, I think it's funny because, you know, do you talk about fear? And fear, I think, is a driving force behind why people don't take on debt, why they save a lot of money, why they keep their expenses really low, and live kind of frugally. And some cases, taken too extreme, it can be miserly, right?

But this change in mindset is what I'll think a lot of people that, you know, and by the way, that fear does instill, I think, a good set of habits in terms of being able to save money. It goes too far. It can force people to go too far for whatever reason. But that shift into opportunity is, I think, where people begin building wealth and really kind of seizing life. Did this shift in thinking about money from a fear perspective to an opportunity perspective? Is that about the time when you began to think about investing your money that you were accumulating? Yeah, it is.

And so I have to say a lot of this I owe to my second job out of school. So my first job, I always wanted to work in radio. And I will say this too, I think your job, if you can, and this isn't the case for everybody. But if you can, and I think most people can do this, I think it's important to work at a job that you like. I think it's important to attempt to be fulfilled in your work. And I think we're really lucky in the United States that most of us have that ability. We have so much choice of occupation and we can go work for ourselves and do something that we want to do and make money on it that way. And so for me, even though I was, I had this fear in me, right, of losing everything, of ending up, like what I'd seen happen with my parents.

I still decided it was really important for me to do something that I got excited about going into work every day. And so for me, I'd always wanted to work in radio. I love the medium. I love the idea that just like this podcast, you can create this message. You can get this message out there to tens of thousands of people in one fell swoop. And you can communicate exactly what you want to communicate. You can build a tribe. You can create excitement, right?

And that's something really cool that you can't do in TV. You can't do it in almost anything else. but people that listen to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, they feel like they know you guys, right? And that's so cool. And so I always wanted to work in radio. That was really important for me, even though I knew it didn't pay a lot.

That was still a crucial decision for me. And then my second job in radio was working for this guy that you guys know, and many of your listeners have probably heard about. His name's Clark Howard. And Clark is a money master. And so he really working with him, developing a friendship with him, helped me to go from living my life.

as like a life of scarcity that I had to worry about all these dollars that were coming into my life that they might pass through my fingers to this life of, you know what, I can use money as a tool to help build the life that I want. And I don't have to be worried about it every day. Yeah. You know, you touched on a couple of things that really, really hit home. And the first one is being happy in your job. A lot of people who are listening to this show are listening because they want to attain financial freedom, financial independence at some point. But that doesn't mean that you have to stop working. That just means that you no longer have to work. And being able to go to a job that you enjoy makes your life so much better because you spend, what, 40 hours a week at your job.

You don't want to spend 40, like, horrible hours. You don't want to wake up in the morning and be like, oh, God, I got to go to work. I actually feel kind of guilty going to work sometimes when, like, I'll get up. The girls are fighting and Carl's got to deal with them. And I'm like, okay, see you. I got to go, you know, Have an awesome day. Sorry, you have to deal with girls that are bickering. I'm sure that never happens at your house, Joel. Never, ever. Kids are great.

But, you know, making sure that you have a job that you love is fabulous. But if you have to work for money, having a job that you love is not like always the first choice. It's not always like something that you have the opportunity to do. If you have no money, like you said, your dad had this job and then he lost. He had to take whatever he could because money was such a factor. So, you know, using money as the tool that it is to buy you this freedom doesn't mean necessarily that you don't have to work anymore.

You can still have a really great life and a fulfilling life. I mean, you help people on the Clark Howard show every day. You help them learn about how to handle their money properly. And sorry, I get all worked up. I really get excited about this. Well, I got a follow up question here. Could you have taken a job that paid more that you might have enjoyed less? Did you have that option when you kind of took this first job?

Or could you now? Most definitely, to both. Coming out of college, I took a part-time job working for Clark. So on the side, when I first started working for Clark, I was pressure-washing houses in the morning. So I grabbed the company truck and I'd go out to like three houses. I'd pressure-washed houses early in the morning. And then I'd go shower up and I'd go into my job at the radio station. I was working, you know, 25 hours a week in radio and pressure washing houses on the side.

And, you know, after a couple of years, I was able to bump up my pay enough to where I could just work in radio and I could just focus on that. But my goal every day that I walked in there was I want them to see that I'm working hard enough that they want to make me a full-time employee and that I will pay off when that happens, right? And so I developed this work ethic where I was willing to take multiple jobs on, willing to work as hard as I could and do as much as I could. I didn't want to be too tired from pressure washing. I had to get the motivation. I had to get the gumption to keep going. And so that was really important for me. And do you think that the reason you are able to do that is because you are not living an expensive lifestyle?

Oh, sure. Oh, sure. Yeah. I think that was hugely important. I think if you're living beyond your means, I was. I was still able to save money. So even making $24,000 a year at my first job in radio, I was able to save up 20% down to put down on my first house that I purchased in 2009.

And I think most people making that kind of money, I think that's impossible. Maybe I can get the 3.5% down to get an FHA loan, or maybe I can get 5% down and I'm still paying PMI every month. And I'm not okay with that. I don't want to pay PMI on houses. I don't want to pay extra money that I don't need to pay. I'm not cool with fees.

I'm not cool with needless debt. And so I think you can say, you, but it starts with a frugal lifestyle. So how much was 20% down? Like what you're in Atlanta, you're in Georgia, where it's not necessarily the highest cost of living in America. What was the cost of the house and how much money did you put down? And how long did it take you to save at $24,000 a year? Yeah. So for me, I guess it took about three and a half years to save that money. and my first house cost $89,000, so pretty cheap. And the same houses in this neighborhood, I still live in the same neighborhood, houses

in this neighborhood, and that particular one is worth probably four times as much now. So I really got fortunate to buy it at a good time. And someone trying to save up 20% down to buy a house right now is in a different situation. It's just so much harder, right? Housing prices are so much more expensive almost everywhere in the country. So it's a different situation. but in any situation where you find yourself

when it comes to your salary and saving, you can find ways to cut and you can find ways to save more. For instance, one of those things that I like to do, I think so many more people can cut back on their car costs from riding a bike. But riding a bike, that's like what kids do, right? That's what the kids and stranger things do. But I don't ride a bike.

That's such a weird thing. But I ride on bike all the time to work. And you know what? Well, maybe you have to change where you live in order to be able to ride your bike to work. But maybe you can write house hack. You guys talk about that all the time. We've got someone that lives in the back of our house now, and it works out well.

So I think people just don't think outside the box enough. They don't think about the crazy ways that they can save money or the ways that they can completely change their lifestyle in order to make things possible. And if you're not willing to think on that level, you're probably going to be a little more stuck. Well, let's sum up here because we got some interesting things. We just talked about how you graduated from college with a communications degree with $13,000. in debt. And then it sounds like you didn't hold a full-time job. You were working two separate jobs this whole entire time pursuing your dream in radio, working for Clark Howard. And it sounds

like there might have been something else in there that I'm missing here. But basically, you're able to pay off this $13,000 over the course of graduate from college and save up 20K or so to put down on your $89,000 house. And this whole time, you're crushing it because of this low-cost lifestyle and investing and making kind of aggressive moves. I mean, this is an incredible story. Most people are not able to do that when they're working a full-time job or part-time jobs that are less than $25,000 a year apiece. Is that an accurate summation of your, of kind of what you did post-college up to that point that we were kind of discussing here? Yeah, yeah, I'd say that's pretty accurate, yeah. I mean, that's, that's amazing. So you've also referred to

this house as a first house. And one of the two keys that I kind of come to when it comes to saving money are housing and transportation. So you got a cheap house with $89,000 in the first place and you're biking everywhere. How did this house impact your financial position was no longer your first, you know, it was no longer your home when you moved out or moved on? Yeah. So it was, it was a great first house. And when I first owned it, I had a roommate. So I, you know, paid $89,000 for this house. My monthly mortgage was in the 500s. And I was able to rent out room for $450 a month. So I was able to cut my cost to almost nothing and therefore was able to jumpstart my savings even more. And so once that happened, I was just accruing a lot more

savings, a lot more savings every month. So instead of paying rent and living with buddies, you know, I had been living with a few dudes in town and we were probably paying like, you know, $550 a month or something like that apiece to rent an apartment. And now, you know, my housing costs had gone way down after I purchased and had a roommate. So I saved and saved and saved. And then that savings I put towards the purchase of another house and it was my goal kind of every two years to buy another house and rent out the prior house. And so I think for anyone trying to get into real estate investing, that's one of the easiest ways to do it. Because like let's say even, even if you only have three and a half or five percent cash to put down towards a house, if you have a strategy

in place where you're not just, you're not just doing it and basically paying the whole mortgage by yourself, if you have a strategy to have a roommate or figure out a way to rent a port of it out or Airbnb room to cut down the cost, then I think it can be worthwhile. And so for me, it was a goal every two years, save 20% up to buy another house, move into that and run out the prior home. So I got I got to chime in here because I'm assuming here and I want to know if I'm right, but I'm assuming that your ability to save up that 20% became exponentially easier over the last couple of years as you kind of racked up some properties and maybe some things went correctly. So were you able to exceed that plan or could you have exceeded that plan if you wanted to?

after that first purchase? Well, so housing prices really started to shoot up. And so it made it a lot harder to save up 20%. If I was buying $89,000 houses every year or something like that, it would have been easier. But I think, too, part of my real estate investing philosophy is I want to invest really locally. I want to be able to mow my own lawns and walk to the houses. And to me, that's really important. I know a lot of people are down with investing all over the United States.

And that's awesome. But for me, I want to be able to invest in my neighborhood or at least close by. and be able to kind of manage the properties myself and make sure that they're, you know, appreciating at the rate that I want to, right? I want to make sure that they're, they're taking care of and looking good and and then I've got the right tenants in there. So, yeah, I probably could have stepped that up, but I'm not like hook, line and sinker in for this fully optimized lifestyle either.

I think optimization is great in a lot of, a lot of arenas, but I don't want to overdo it. I don't want to over leverage myself. I don't want to stretch too far when it comes to my time. I've got a beautiful wife, two daughters. My goal is to work smart and not work hard. And so, you know, I don't want to be busting my back every day in order to manage 30 rental properties.

And I think if I go slowly at the pace of two a year and build towards financial independence, you know, eventually that's my full-time gig. But for right now, I just want to go kind of slow and steady. Okay. So you've mentioned financial independence a couple of times. And you've mentioned that Clark, I mean, Clark Howard talks about this too. Is that how you discovered financial independence was through Clark? Did you purposely go work for him because of his finance background or did it just kind of happen?

Yeah. So I had worked as an intern at that radio station. Then I got a job at a radio station just down the street for six months. And then I quit because I wanted to take a road trip across the country with my best friend in a station wagon. And so we did that for three months. And by the way, I recommend that to anyone. You learn so much as a young person traveling and doing something like that. And we were able to do it for like less than $5,000 for three months.

So there's so many ways to camp for free, cheap, stay with friends. It was a life-changing experience and so worthwhile. And I thought I was going to move to the West Coast, honestly. And when I came back for Christmas, I had a return ticket booked. But there was this job of with Clark and I decided to apply for it. And I think like I didn't know at the time, this is perfect for me. But it turned out it was perfect for me. And I got really lucky that I think Clark took a chance on me.

I was a super young, young kid, just really earnest and eager. And it's turned out to be a really, really great fit for me. And I think a great fit for Clark, it's been, you know, I've worked with him for over 11 years now. And it's just been fantastic. And yes, the concept of financial independence working towards that, I learned a lot of that from Clark. Like I said, I had this kind of fearful view of money and then working for Clark and with him really kind of opened my eyes to the ways that I could use money in a positive way. I love it. And, you know, what I'm hearing from you is you did all the right things at first

without sacrificing the fun and joy in life. But you just were able to build up this foundation from which to pursue financial independence, even if you weren't intentionally or you kind of more intentionally began focusing on it later on down the road, kind of maybe had this kind of fear of money that morphed into the, I think the healthy assessment of money as an opportunity to kind of live life on your terms. And now you're in this position where you're saying, hey, I'm not going to go aggressively build out this portfolio beyond my means. I'm sitting pretty. I've got a great life. I've got a great job. I've got a great family. And I can continue just buying properties at my own pace with a very modest amount of risk. And I'm going to hit my target of financial freedom

very soon and very comfortably. And that is, I think, just such a good position to be in in life. You are not tied to any job. You're not tied to anything. You know, I'm sure, that if you lost your job tomorrow, unexpectedly, which seems very unlikely, that you could go out and finish out the journey to financial independence or get part-time work or whatever and be very, very comfortable still. What a powerful place to be in, you know, approaching life. Can I ask how old you are? Yeah, I'm 34. 34, yeah. So you, I mean, most of your life you're going to spend, in a state of very healthy, comfort with your financial position and work in jobs that you love and doing things that you want. I mean, this is just like a textbook case of starting from

almost disadvantaged position with these kind of part-time jobs and really just crushing it in every aspect of finance. Yeah, I mean, I think I've been really fortunate. And, you know, there's, I think hard work and luck kind of coincide a lot of times, right? They're both really important. Working hard is really important, but sometimes that lucky break is really important. And so if you're out there working hard and you haven't caught that lucky break, it's coming. You got to keep working hard and you're going to catch one, right? Like that's what happens. When you work hard, the luck is going to find you. And so yeah, my mindset about money is, like I said, for a while, I was fearful about it and I didn't want any to slip through my fingers.

And I think at this point in my life, I've gotten a lot more comfortable thinking about what I want my life to look like and not making sure that I'm, you know, saving 60% of my money. I think that's a well-intentioned goal and that's a great thing for a lot of people to strive for. But for me, where I'm at, I want to work a job that I enjoy. I want to have a good savings rate, a good healthy savings rate. I want to be pursuing investments that are going to make me money over time. But ultimately, I want my life to look like now, like I want it to look like in 30 years. I want my life to look like right now. Like if I won the lottery tomorrow, it wouldn't change much. And I truly feel that way about my life. I've tried to order my life in such a way.

that I'm secure with money and that I actually love my job and I love the way my life looks on a normal basis and I'm not working 60, 70 hours a week in order to make that possible. And I think it's a really important lesson for people. I think sometimes they think they need to work more than is healthy and they need to put the notes of the grindstone at a level that is just terrible for your life and ultimately makes you miserable and you're missing out on the things along the way that are crucially important to being a human. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial

picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch

subscription with the code Pockes. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place, so every decision actually moves the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at monarch.com code pockets.

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsor jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works.

sponsored jobs on Indeed, get 45% more applications than non-sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Just go to Indeed.com slash Bigger Pockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. When you want more, start your business with Northwest Registered Agent and get access to thousands of free guides, tools, and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business all in one place.

Build your complete business identity with Northwest today. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S. With over 1,500 corporate guides who are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business. They give you the free tools you need after you form it, like operating agreements, meeting minutes, and thousands of how-to guides that explain the complicated ins and outs of running a business. And with Northwest, privacy is automatic.

They never sell your data. And all services are handled in-house because privacy by default is their pledge. to all customers. Visit northwest registeredagent.com slash money-free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registered Agent.com slash money-free. Well, I'll throw in there. You said that the harder you work, the more chances for luck that you will appear to you.

And I agree with that to a certain extent. But the underlying factor that, you know, kind of helped you get some of these opportunities was your savings rate as well. So it's got hard work coupled with that low expenses, you know, relative expenses, that equals that. Because those people that are stuck working really, really hard all day long and never getting ahead, I guarantee you that a huge portion of those folks that are unable to catch a lucky break are in that position because they have nothing to fall back on. They can't take that three months and travel across the country. They can't take that part-time job that might

lead to an awesome opportunity down the line because they have nothing to fall back on. So if you want that luck to appear, I think that there's a huge component of it is, yes, work hard, but also build up your personal financial positions that you're prepared to take advantage of those opportunities. I completely agree because I think, you know, for instance, with my parents, my dad is the hardest worker I know. My mom is the second hardest worker I know. I mean, they're pretty much the same. They're skilled people. They're wonderful people. They're kind people. They work so hard every day. Their employers get way more than they deserve out of them. It's incredible. And it makes me want to work hard. It makes you want to work harder. But you're right.

They didn't combine it with the savings rate. They didn't combine it. it with living below their means. And that is what put them in a position of hardship when I was growing up. And so it wasn't their lack of hard work. It was their lack of being able to save money. So I've heard Scott talk a lot. We work together all day, every day. And I've heard him say that luck is preparation plus opportunity. Is that? Oh, I didn't make that quote up, but I like to, I like to repeat it. Yeah. I think I think it was like Arnold Palmer maybe. He said something like that. Like, the harder I practice, the luckier I get. There's, yeah, there's a lot of those things. But yeah, I'm a huge fan of that point. I don't want to take credit for quotes that had been around.

Sure. Oh, I thought that was yours. Okay. Well, then never mind. Yeah, and Arnold Palmer said, let's mix sweet tea and lemonade. So, yeah, that was, it's weird. I know. That is really weird. You can't do that. Okay. So you said you wanted to create passive income streams in times that we've talked before, how much passive income do you currently have versus your expenses? And like, if you lost your job tomorrow, you have no way to make any income, how long could you live on your current income streams and how many more do you need before you hit financial independence and you know, this freedom number? Yeah, that's a good question. So the actual number of how much I'm making on my rental properties every month is about $2,500, which is getting close. I think ultimately,

you know, I want to have a few more rental properties that are generating something similar, you know, roughly $800 a piece every month. And so that's where I'm at, but I've also been really lucky to buy to buy properties that were undervalued and that were in a rapidly appreciating place. Right. So Atlanta right now is crazy hot. People want to move here. They call it hotlanta, right? The movie industry is booming in Atlanta. And so people are moving here in droves. There's a lot of Fortune 500 companies in Atlanta. And in town Atlanta in particular is growing really quickly because the traffic situation here is God awful.

And so because of that, all these factors, where I live is changing like crazy. I mean, they're building constantly. And so the single family homes that I've purchased in these areas have appreciated so rapidly. I mean, I could almost sell them all right now and retire right now if I wanted to, I think, but if I lived incredibly frugally. But I love the idea and I love where things are going and having just that monthly income from them every month. But ultimately, my goal with that monthly income is to save it, put it in stocks, and then also save it up even more so for the next rental property.

But yeah, ultimately, I would love to have three to five more rental properties. And I think my next venture, I'd like it actually to be a multifamily house. and I'm actually looking at a nineplex right now. So I don't know if it's going to happen or not, but I kind of like the idea of getting into something a little bit bigger with my next purchase. So we'll see how that goes. Do you invest outside of real estate at all? Do you have a stock portfolio or other kind of side projects that you've been working on?

Yeah. So I've always put money every month into my 401K getting minimum of the match. And I think that's really important for people too. If you're not investing in your 401k at work, you're never going to get a better return than 50% on your money. if your employer offers a match. So you got to do that. And then on top of that, I invest in a Roth IRA as well, and I think that's important. But I have begun to realize in the last couple of years, I think especially for someone who wants to be financially independent, real estate is probably the best vehicle for that.

You know, I think it's great that I have a stock portfolio and I'm so glad that I've been investing in that over the years and I will continue to do so. But I'm going to continue to allocate more of my resources towards real estate instead because it can provide that that monthly income potential. And then ultimately, you know, like I said, where I live and what I see, I think for most investors considering appreciation, they probably weigh that too heavily. And I don't think it's smart. But I think if you know your neighborhoods really, really well and you know what's happening and you're in tune with the city, you can invest for appreciation at the same time as investing for a monthly return. Yeah, I like that approach a lot. That's what I do here in Denver, because

I think that there's a merit to getting you. The first thing that I think makes sense for real estate investments, like for my philosophy, I agree completely with this, is I have to cash flow. I have to produce a positive cash flow. But I'm willing to get slightly less positive cash flow if I can put myself in a position that I think, you know, will give me benefits speculatively because I think the neighborhood's going to improve or there's construction projects going on nearby or, you know, just the local market's going to improve. And I think that it's foolish to depend on appreciation to make your investment, but it could also be foolish to completely dismiss its potential as well if you're not willing to do that a little extra homework. It sounds like you're kind of taking a smart

balance of the two for your local market. Yeah, I think when I'm looking at a deal, I'm essentially looking at like three main things. First, I want to get a deal. I want it to be undervalued. I want the person selling it to be asking less than it's worth. And then second, I want it to be cash flow positive. I want it to meet in my mind the 1% rule. So this 9plex, they're asking $750,000. And I think I can get, you know, gross rents of $100,000 a year. So that's, crushing the 1% rule for me. And then ultimately, I also wanted to be in a place where I think appreciation is going to happen quickly. So if I'm buying the deal and I'm getting good positive cash flow and I think it's going to appreciate well, this, this 9plex is one block from a suburban

downtown area. So, you know, young professionals might want to live there. It's easy to get in town. They can walk to cool stuff. And I think there's a lot of stuff starting to happen around. that downtown area as well. And so I see just a lot of positive benefits for rapid appreciation at the same time. If I can hit all three of those in the same deal, and I'm always trying to do that, then I'm happy. That sounds fantastic. And this nineplex, though, is it within a quick drive from wherever you live or you can manage it yourself pretty easily and fulfill your dream of mowing all your own lawns? Yes, I can. It will be the furthest one out for me, because honestly, the first two are within a mile. I literally walk.

buy them. And then the most recent one I purchased, it was the first one that I didn't actually live in is about 10 minutes away. And there's 9plex would be about 30 minutes away. And so I'm getting into that section where, you know, I'm getting a little bit further out, but which perfect world I would not do. But when you're looking at for the deal, when you're looking to hit those three things with every deal, you have to be willing to do that. And I think if it was a single family home, I'd be much less likely to do it 30 minutes away. but a nineplex and you're talking about the potential income that generates, dude, I'll drive 30 minutes three days a week in order to make that deal happen. There's people that drive 30 minutes every, like one way to work every single day.

There's people who drive like an hour. I don't know how bad traffic is in Atlanta now, but I used to live in Chicago and traffic's really awful. It's an hour to get anywhere at least. So 30 minutes for money. I don't understand those people. I don't understand those people. I can't do it. I currently live quite a ways away from the office, but I'm only in here twice a week. So it's a little bit better. It's actually kind of fun because then I can listen to grown-up music and no kids fighting in the back seat. And, you know, that's kind of nice. Okay. So I want to talk about the house you live in right now. You said that you rent out the back of your house. So how long have you done that? Is this the plan forever? Or is it just right now? Is it a full-time thing or is it Airbnb? Or is it like a like a, like,

like a duplex? Are you sharing your actual house? And most importantly, how does your wife feel about this? Because I have heard stories from people who are like, yeah, I don't want to live with anybody. My husband wants to house hack and no way. And, you know, so go. All right. So we felt so lucky when we found this house because it was the perfect setup for us. The way it is set up, it is essentially set up like a duplex where we have a front entrance and a backside entrance. And so the front entrance is ours. We live in a two-bed, one-one-bath portion of it. It's about 1,300 square feet. And then the back portion is one of our friends' rents. But there is only a door separating our units. So it's not even like a wall, right? It's just a door. So on the

weekend, she'll come through and do laundry. And it's actually, honestly, it's perfect. And my wife loves it. She was just telling me last night, you know, if we don't have more kids, like, because we've always assumed that at some point, since it's just a door, we'll take over the whole house at some point. But she said, if we don't have any more kids, I'd love to keep her back there for forever. It's awesome. It's just kind of nice to have someone else in the house, like when I'm away, and to have that income as well, that pays for more than half the mortgage. Oh, wow. And you said she has her own bathroom. Own bathroom, own small kitchen. You know, we do share a thermostat. So she has to be okay with my incredibly frugal,

cheap usage of electricity. But she is. So that's cool. And she knows how to wear a snuggy if she needs to stay warm in the winter. Or a mouse onesie, as Tanya did from Our Next Life on show 13. She keeps her house at 55 degrees and she lives in Tahoe. So it's like really cold. She's a little more committed to the cause than I am. Okay. And on a side note with your wife sounds like she's on board with the whole frugality thing.

Did you guys talk about money before you got married? We totally did. Oh, yeah. She knew where I worked, what I did, how much it meant to me and my past and my history with it. No, it's, yeah, we were on the same page. And I will say this, like, when it comes to us thinking about money together, it has taken a lot of time. And it's taken a lot of intentionality. Because for the longest time, even as I was starting to think more positively about money, I just still wanted to either not buy anything or get the cheapest deal possible. And so when she would buy something, I would have been like, oh, oh, you should have let me shop for that for you. something like that. And so we've had to kind of create this dialogue and create a budget that allows for her not to have to bend her life to my rules. But at the same time, you know, we've, and that actually sounds really strong, bend her life to my rules. Maybe that I don't think it's quite like that. I don't think I'm like a brutal dictatorship or anything like that

with money in this house. But we've created a budget, I think, that works for us and that we feel flexibility that a separate fund for her and fun for me every month. And so when she spends money, we don't have to answer to each other. And if I want to buy something stupid like soccer tickets, you know, like that's on me too. But we have the freedom to do that. And we don't have to like discuss every little purchase with each other, which is helpful. And I think different couples do it in different ways. But you have to find a system that works for you and where you're not, you know, bearing down on each other for purchases that you want to make. As long as it falls within the budget, and that's why a budget's so important. And because I was so frugal for the longest time,

I didn't even budget because I didn't feel the need to do it. But when I'm talking about these things with my wife, we have to be able to discuss it together. And a budget's crucial for that. That's so important. You have to be able to discuss it together and discuss not fight. And what did you say about, oh, you have to make a budget that works for you. I'm not in your marriage. So my budget doesn't have to work for you. It only has to work for you. Well, for me and my husband. And your budget has to work for you and your wife. And that's great, but you've got to discuss it. I have a cautionary tale related to this.

One of my friends had a big fight with his wife because the wife bought a like several thousand dollar purse, right? And so they had a big fight and they took the purse back. And a few weeks later, they were discussing what kind of car to buy. And the wife got a very much nicer car in light of the fight that they had over the purse. Sometimes the $3,000 purse can actually be. quite cheap for you. So kind of keep, you got to keep those things in mind when you're kind of setting these budgets for, you know, your marriage or your partnership there. So you don't

want to win the battle and lose the war. Yes. Yes. So Scott, I have a question for you. So, so Joel is married. I am married. Scott is dating. Have you and your girlfriend discussed money in like broad strokes or frugality or anything like that? Have you started discussing? finances. Yes. So you may have noticed, but I like to talk about money quite a bit all day long, every day with everyone. So yeah, we've definitely talked about money. When Scott said he cared about money. Yes, I was, that was so shocking. Yeah. No, because Carl and I never talked about money. And, you know, I asked this question one time of a bunch of people, you know, did you talk about money before you got married? And I said, I was thinking back on it, no, we never did. On the other hand,

I knew he was a frugal person because he drove not a brand new car. It wasn't like the coolest car ever. Sorry, sweetheart. But, and he used coupons. We went out on a date and he used a coupon. And I wasn't like, oh, that's gross. I was like, yeah, go for it. Let's, let's save money.

And, you know, so we didn't have the conversation, but we didn't need to have the conversation. But I think it's, you know, looking back now, I can't believe I didn't have the conversation. Like, it's such a big part of my life now. But, you know, back then we didn't, nobody talked about money. Yeah, I would say for my relationship, we handle it pretty, pretty well. We have, like, she's a teacher. So at this point in my life, I probably earning a little bit more, like a lot, maybe a lot more. But the, but we live very frugally.

We don't have expensive tastes. There's no, like, fights over that kind of stuff. And our favorite type of night is to maybe go out and have some wings and then watch a movie or, you know, play Scrabble and kind of have fun like that. Or go get a, you know, go to a brewery and get a couple beers and some friends. Like, these are not, like, expensive outings for, for us. So they're very manageable and there's no, like, kind of fundamental disagreements is there at all. I just heard beers. And now I want a beer.

Yeah. It's, uh, it's only 1153 here right now. So we can't drink. Plus, we're at work. I guess that should be the more important thing. You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning. That is a Scott trench quote. I quote him frequently.

I don't know if I made that one up either, but I heard it somewhere and I used it a lot. You didn't, but I always attribute it to you. All right. Well, going back to Joel's story here, did we miss anything about your story that we didn't cover here? Is there any kind of points you want to bring up for us about how you kind of, your story start to finish here before we move on to the famous four? Well, I'm trying to think if there's anything else we didn't cover. I think, man, I think we covered most of it. And, yeah, I just. You had plenty.

It was a great story. Yeah, we're not pressure you to come up with more. It was this has been fantastic. I have a question. I have a question that a lot of people, when I meet them, I'm always asking about money and, you know, like what's your money story? And some people don't want to share that. But some people will hear what I do and they say, you know, oh, I could never do that.

I could never live like that. Like, aren't you deprived? As a frugal person, do you feel deprived? Do you feel like you're missing out on anything? I mean, I listen to your show. I hear you go to baseball games and, you know, you have a baseball jersey, even though it's expensive. Like, what are you missing out on? Yeah, that's a good question.

I don't think I'm missing out on much. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, I think I live this incredible life that is, you know, when I look back to when I was in my early 20s, like what I wanted my life to look like when I was 33 or 34, it looks like that. And I feel so fortunate because so many people don't get, it's so much harder to build a life that reflects exactly what you wanted to look like. And I think there's a couple of reasons why I don't feel deprived. And it's because we also, my wife and I, we sit down and intentionally think about, you know, what are the areas we want to allocate our money that we feel like reflect our values? And so there are a couple things that nobody else would buy, but we buy because they're important to us. Like, we like folk art. And a lot of people don't even know what folk.

art is. It's behind your head if you're looking at the video. It's behind my head. And we have so many random cool pieces of art in our house that you don't get from home goods or T.J. Max or something like that. And that's really important to us. And so we buy a piece of art every year. And it's typically, you know, $500, $600, $700 for a big piece of art that we love. That's one of a kind. And every time we look at it, you know, we buy them in honor of our anniversary. So I'm like, oh, that was our first anniversary. And this piece was our second anniversary piece. And so for us, so for us, like we want our money to be allocated towards the things that we care about. And then we like literally just ruthlessly cut back on the things that don't mean anything to us.

And so, no, ultimately, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. And one of those things too, by the way, is craft beer. People are like, you're drinking a $20 bottle of beer. Yeah. Because it means a lot to me. I care so much about beer. And I don't do that every night, but I drink really good beer. And I pay money for beer that people probably think is exorbitant.

but I'm not spending very much money on all these other things that most people spend their money on. You got to come to Denver. We got craft beer. That's really great for like $5. You have to come to Denver anyway. I've been and I love it and I think I could live in Crooked Stave. Probably. It's a wonderful place. I will just say that crooked stave is not that far away from where I am currently sitting. I'm coming very soon. I promise. I got to make it happen. You can sleep over.

Okay, so Scott, shall we move on to our famous four questions? Let's do it. Okay. Do you want to kick us off? I do. These are the four questions that we ask everybody. It's actually five because we don't know how to count. These are the same questions we ask everybody when they come on to our show.

First question is, what is your favorite finance book? All right. My favorite finance book is the book Beyond Wealth by Alexander Green. and I think it's my favorite because he pairs financial advice with his just life wisdom. And so I love reading that book. It's really just this collection of short essays that he's written over the years. And one of my favorite quotes from it, he says, cultivate an attitude of restraint. It will become natural inclination over time.

And I think that's great wisdom. And there's like a million quotes like that in this book. I think everybody should read it. They're all my quotes. Yeah, they're all Scott's quotes. Beyond wealth by Alexander Green, did you say? That's right. Yep. I've never heard of this book. I'll have to go check it out. That's awesome. I love to have a new book recommendations. Yes. Really, really good. And I think it just, because I think money is so psychological and money is so

tied to your goals and how you think about life. And you really have to put all those in line together in this book by Alexander Green will help you kind of create a life manifesto, I think, and help you kind of think about your life, you know, from different angles and assess things. And then and then assess how your money's going out and whether it's supporting the things you actually care about or not. Awesome. So what was your biggest money mistake that you've made. All right. So I think it's a lot of little ones, but here was my trip up, I think, for a lot of years. And I've changed that, especially over the last two years, I've buckled down. It was buying things because they were a deal. And just buying something because it was on sale,

or I, you know, I'd buy a shirt because it was on sale for $8, but it was probably regularly a $40 shirt. But I didn't get much use out of it. And so I've started spending more money on things that I think are I'm going to use a lot. Like I'll buy a $50 pair of jeans because I know I'm going to like I literally wear jeans every day of my life and I have two pairs of $50 jeans. And I would rather wear the exact jeans I want to wear than buy something that's on sale for $15 from H&M and then never really wear it because, you know, it's not something I enjoyed. So try to have fewer things now and stop wasting money just when I see a deal. A wise man once said, you don't need it. It ain't on sale.

Who said that? Wise man. I don't know. A wise man. Yeah. No, you know what? That's something that I see a lot of people doing when they want to be frugal, so they buy things that are low price.

Okay. What is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out? I would say you can save money no matter how much you make. So whether you're making $12, $14 an hour or you're making, you know, an annual salary of $24,000 a year, whatever it is. you can save money no matter how much you make. And one more thing, I think an hour spent working when you're young pays massive dividends later as well.

So I would work harder when you're young so that you can kind of enjoy the fruits of your labors as you move along in life. Awesome. All right, this is the most difficult question of the famous four, but what is your favorite joke to tell at parties? All right, I thought about this one for a long time. And I realize, I just really like,

saying sarcastic things and I also love asking people awkward questions. So let's say someone just got back from a trip. I like to ask, what was the worst part of your trip? I just, I like to know like the weird things, the hard things. And I kind of like to, instead of the small talk, kind of get through with an awkward question and see how people respond. And I feel like sometimes I can like break the ice or like build a relationship in a quicker way. I don't really have like a go to corny joke though. All right. Fine. Lucky for you. Scott collects them. Scott. All right. Can you send me something that I can try out? Yeah.

I'll give you one right now. What did Buddha say to the hot dog vendor? Oh, I don't know. Make me one with everything. Do you what the hot dog vendor said back to Buddha? What's that? Sure, but change must come from within. Mindy's little Buddha token, if you're watching the video here,

adds greatly to the joke telling. So check it out on YouTube. This is Rob's. A little Buddha token. There we go. I was hoping that was Buddha. Okay. If you have a joke that you would like us to read when our guest comes up short, you can send

it to Scott at biggerpockets.com, who will be much more appreciative. Or you can send it to Mindy at biggerpockets.com. And I will start keeping track of these on a document so that we can bring them in because this is the hardest question to ask. or the hardest question to answer. I have a plug for my old defunct t-shirt business that I started like maybe five years ago and promptly lost money on. I actually started, I have a t-shirt that has the Buddha joke on it.

And I got the Buddha saying that to the hot dog guy and the hot dog guy saying it back to Buddha. So Trenches T's, check it out on Facebook. I don't even if it's still live. I'll have to go check. You could be the eighth follower on Facebook of Trenches T's. There you go. or if it doesn't still work, you can send him nasty notes at Scott at biggerpockets.com. Okay, Joel, before we wrap this up, we do want to know where people can find out more about you.

Sure. Yeah, you can go to my website. It's poor, not poor.com, as in pour a beer. Don't be poor in life. And you can listen to our podcast. I do a podcast about craft beer and money with my best buddy Matt. And literally, it's really just an excuse for us to get together and drink beer and talk about what we love to talk about. So you can find us wherever you're listening to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcasts. We're on there, too.

Yes, poor, not poor. I will have links to this in the show notes because you want to make sure you're spelling poor correctly both times. I know that's the toughest thing about telling people where to listen. It's easier. It's easy when you're looking at the visual, but it's harder to explain it verbally. Yes. So the show notes for this episode are at biggerpockets.com slash money show 16. Okay, Joel, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to chat with us about money. I think it is really important for people listening to realize that, you know, when you're having a money issue, that doesn't just affect your life. That can affect your kids forever. And it's, I guess it affected you positively in that you are not just a spendy person who's mired in debt. But, you know, I bet for a few years that was really difficult to deal with.

So, you know, thank you very much for coming and sharing your story. with us today. I really appreciate it. It was a true pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. I loved your story. I loved everything about what you're doing. This is fantastic. Thanks so much. Thanks, Scott. Had a great time, man. Okay. We'll talk to you soon. All right. Y'all are the best. It was fun. Okay. Bye. All right. So that was Joel Larsgard. What did you think to the today's show, Mindy? I love Joel. I love talking to him. I love listening to his story. And he's just a genuinely nice person who doesn't have the these huge goals to, you know, be the next Warren Buffett, let's say. He doesn't have these aspirations

to just own everything. He just wants to have a comfortable lifestyle and have fun. And that's, you know, that's really great. You know, isn't it amazing how people who work really hard and spend very little money and invest intelligently seem to just over and over and over again get really lucky? Isn't that a kind of fantastic phenomenon that kind of seems to occur with a bunch of these guests. You know, I don't think that the word that I would use is lucky. Fortunate, they are very fortunate, but, you know, they make smart choices. And, you know, after 15 episodes of this show, what I see continuously is that this doesn't have to be this huge thing. You don't have to give up everything that you love just so you can retire, you know,

a year early. You can still have everything that means something to you. You just cut out the things that don't. Yeah, and of course I'm being facetious. Joel was not lucky. Joel, I mean, yes, everyone who, you know, even bought real estate or stocks in the last couple of years saw a nice booming market. But the fact of the matter is Joel hustled, lived very frugally, and made his own luck and has been consistently applying his formula for wealth building and living an awesome life over, you know, nearly a decade. And he is reaping the rewards of that right now and living an awesome, awesome lifestyle with a lot of options. Yes, he's got a really great life. I mean, he does what he wants.

And that's really what this is all about. Okay. So, Scott, shall we get out of here? Let's get out of here. Okay. For the Bigger Pockets Money Show, this is Mindy Jensen, over and out.