BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 195: 3 Degrees, Debt Free, and “Coasting” to Financial Independence

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

Student loans can often drag people into debt, especially when chasing more than one degree. But here’s an unusual story: Brenda Olmost, PhD student, nurse practitioner, and member of the FIRE community is graduating with NO debt. Amazing right? Brenda has worked her tail off over the past decade getting scholarships, living below her means, and working whenever she can so she graduates her program with no debt. Not only has Brenda done a fantastic job making extra income, she’s been investing on the side! She has a growing 401(k), a maxed out Roth IRA, and 2 rental properties. At 31, she’s in a phenomenal position to reach financial independence. Lucky for her, she loves her career, so even if she does hit her FI number, she’ll still be bringing in the dough to pursue more and more investment opportunities. If you want to hear more from Brenda, you can check out her podcast, Minority Millennial Money where she talks about budgeting, investing, saving, career, and relationships! In This Episode We Cover Staying off the hedonic treadmill and living below your means Pursuing high demand, high-income careers Getting scholarships and working on the side to pay for school Why you SHOULDN’T buy that new car you want Hitting “Coast FI” in your early 30s Using your extra income to invest, buy rental properties, and save And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Scott's Instagram Mindy's Twitter BiggerPockets Money Podcast 169 BiggerPockets Money Podcast 81 BiggerPockets Money Podcast 24 Check the full show notes here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/moneyshow195 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, show number 195, where we interview Brenda Olmos and talk about being intentional with your spending and your investing. I'm not like the typical person that wants to leave the workforce completely because I have such a useful skill and actually quite passionate about my work. And so I don't see myself getting a PhD at 33 and leaving the workforce 12 years later. I just don't think that that would be a very good use of all the education I've gotten. So for me, the retire early is more of like a work optional thing, right? Like at that point, I'll be able to say like, I want to do this work. I don't want to do this work. I want to teach full time. I want to practice a little bit. I only want to do

the things that I really want to do. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me as always is my straight talking co-host, Scott Trench. Straight talking. That's a curveball, Mindy. I don't know if I have a response to that one. Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, or start your own business.

We'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so that you can launch yourself towards those dreams. Scott, I am super excited to talk to Brenda today. I met her on Twitter 100. years ago. And she is just a delightful person. She's a nurse. She is a PhD, a funded PhD student. And we'll get into that in just a moment. But she is being intentional with her money. She's spending money on purpose. She's investing money on purpose. And she has set herself up by making, I don't want to say sacrifices, because she still has a really great life. But she has set herself up by

making intentional choices with her money. So now she's kind of coast five, meaning if she just let it all ride and didn't add another dime to her investments, she would still most likely reach financial independence within 10 or 15 years. And I'm just really, really excited to talk to her today. Yeah, I think she has a fantastic story and you're really going to enjoy it. I think it's very straightforward, a common sense approach where she's already won. Now, what, right? And now she's got this incredible array of awesome options in front of her that are going to be, you know, continue to multiply. Yeah, which of these amazing choices do I have to choose? I'm just so excited for her life. Tax season is one of the only times all year when

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If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money. Brenda Olmos is a funded PhD student. She owns two rental properties and plans to retire at age 45. Brenda, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Hi, thanks for having me on. I would like to know what a funded PhD student means. Yeah, so I began the research process to do a PhD a couple years ago, 2019, and I was looking for an opportunity that would at least pay my tuition because I thought I'd be giving up my full-time job to do this and I don't want to go into debt for a PhD. and nursing because there's no real financial guarantee that there will be a very big return on the investment. You know, full-time professors probably starting out make less than I was making at the time as a nurse practitioner. So it would actually be a pay cut if I were to do academia full-time.

And so I thought, no way I'm going to go into debt for that, right? And so I did some research and I found this program that I'm at now and they had a scholarship opportunity where they pay your tuition and they give you a living stipend. So a lot of graduate students get this in some form if they qualify for it. And mine was merit-based. So it wasn't financially based. So I just had to apply. I applied and I won it. And so now for three years, my tuition is paid and I get $2,500 a month to live on, essentially. And I'm allowed to work 20 hours a week. So the staff, stipulation is that I don't work more than 20 hours a week because they are supporting me, you know, to do well in the program.

Do you usually work the 20 hours a week? Because that's an awesome situation, it sounds like. I work pretty sporadically, probably throughout the semester. It works out to about 20 hours a week. So I teach in a master's nursing program for nurse practitioners because that's what I am. And that's about five to 10 hours a week. Currently, I teach in a master's nursing program. I teach. took on a recent position as a graduate research assistant with one of my professors, that's six hours a week. And then I have some contract work as a nurse practitioner here in town. That is probably my most lucrative work because contract work tends to pay more. And that's like weekends and nights sometimes. If they need help, I'm kind of like the on-call person and I'll go work like a

five to nine p.m. shift at a clinic. This is a great program, it sounds like. it is let's go into the wayback machine and look at where your journey with money begins and specifically with regards to becoming a nurse so my journey with money begins i remember being like 10 years old and wanting to start a little business and my parents let me buy like different treats for dogs and i would mix and match them and make little treat bags and i went around the neighborhood and started selling these mixed treat bags to the neighbors. And then I became a babysitter and I made money that way. And so I was always kind of like a little bit of an entrepreneur, even though I don't really aspire to entrepreneurship as an adult. But my dad had a small business.

And so that was kind of always like something that I looked up to. You know, he, he found his own work and he made money that way. And so I kind of followed in those footsteps. And because my dad had a small business, our family money situation was always very feaster famine. It was like business is really great and we're doing really well. And then there were other seasons where business was not that great. And I knew that we weren't doing very well. But my parents were very like yolo about money. They were like, if we have it, we spend it.

And if we don't have it, we just don't get to spend anything. And so I didn't have that stability. with money that I've created for myself in my adult life. And I think that was what really drove me to be very, very careful with money as an adult and has reaped me a lot of benefits now, you know, that I don't blame my parents for how they were, but I also realized that my personality, I need a lot of stability. And I can't really live with that Easter famine roller coaster situation. because it actually just makes my anxiety worse. Can you walk us through kind of how your money story evolved through high school and college?

Sure. So I had a job when I was 15, you know, apart from babysitting. That was my first job. And that was just kind of like my spending money. And my parents had got me a car and I used that money to like buy gas and like go shopping teenager things, you know? And then I went to college. and I went to UT Austin and I had about 75% of my college paid for through scholarships

because I was in the top 10 of my graduating high school class and I went into the nursing program. And so I came out of college with about $10,000 in student debt just because I studied abroad and there was that last quarter of my tuition that wasn't covered. but because I was a nurse, I was able to get a job and pay that off pretty quickly, like $10,000. I think I paid off in like six months because I got a second job on my days off from the hospital. And I just threw that money at the loan. And so I haven't had a student loan since about 2011 or 12, early 2012. So it sounds, I'm picking up a story of where you had this different,

mentality of your parents with money or that you want to apply that to your adult life differently. And now you're six months graduated and you've worked a second job and you've paid off the debt. Are you intentionally pursuing FI at this point? Or is this just like, I want to get out of debt and then kind of figure out what's next? What happens next, I guess? I'm not pursuing FI. I'm 23 years old. And I did a big no-note, which was I went and bought a new car.

And it was a really sweet car, actually. It was a mini Cooper. I don't regret it. I regret it financially, but it was such a sweet ride. That it was something that I'm like, I did it. I probably could have saved that money, but it was fine. So I was not pursuing FI at the time at all. I just wanted to be out of debt.

And then a couple of years passed by, I'm working as a nurse. I get into graduate school and I'm working at a hospital that would cover the cost of graduate school. And so they did tuition reimbursement. And so I got about half of my graduate degree paid that way. It was about a $22,000 degree. And so the hospital reimbursed me for half of it, and I paid the other half of it as I went because I worked full time while in graduate school full time. I don't recommend that. It was not the easiest thing. But I was single. I didn't have kids. I didn't have a lot of other demands on my life. And so I was like, I'm just going to make this work for these two years. And so that also paid off in the sense that I came out of my master's

degree with no debt. And in that time, it was 2016. So it was five years ago. It was the first year of my master's program. And I started listening to a couple podcasts about money. And that led to another podcast, which lent to another podcast. And I was like, I could make this work. I was like, I have the means and the income earning capacity to do this. And I had already been saving. So I traded in the car. It was so sad. I let the mini Cooper go. But before we hear about all your tactics and all you did here, can you give us a framework of your situation? You're starting grad school, you're not in debt. Did you have debt from the mini-Cooper? Yeah, so I did have the car loan. I did have that car loan and I was like, you know, I could just trade the sin, take the loss on the

negative equity and just buy something that is reliable, that is like under $20,000 that I can pay off. So I did that, but I actually did that after graduate school. I kept the Mini Cooper through grad school and I sold that car when I got. I got serious about FI and I had had some money, like I had like $20,000 and I bought my first property right when I graduated grad school in 2017. What was your net worth? Were you investing in retirement accounts or those kinds of things? But when you discovered FI and started making the big changes, what was your kind of position

right at that moment in time? My net worth at that time was probably only like 25 or $30,000. I don't know. I mean, I remember having about $20,000 because I was looking to buy a place. And I was like, okay, this is how much money I have. I need to do something with this money. But my net worth is much higher now and it's only been five years. Sorry.

So the timeline was I graduated from grad school in 2017. I bought my first property a condo for myself. Then I had the mini Cooper for another year. And then I got serious about really getting up. out of debt except my mortgage. So paid off the car that I replaced it with in the year. And so except for mortgages, I haven't had any consumer debt since 2018. So the moment you discover fire around that time is in grad school in 2016 or 17. You're evolving in that range. Okay. Does your lifestyle change at all, like your day-to-day living

once you discover it? Only in the sense that I started paying myself first and saving and investing first instead of saving and investing whatever was left over. But I gave myself enough money that I felt like my lifestyle didn't stay the same. And I was never super spendy anyway. I'm probably more spendy than most of my friends. And by that, I mean like I go out to eat more often. I like designer bags.

I don't really like clothes, but if I want something, I'll buy it because I can. And I, because I know that I've already saved and invested. And so, like, any money that's left over is just for me to enjoy. Do you have a set amount that you are saving and investing? Like, I put away 20% and then everything else is mine to spend. So when I had a full-time job, I maxed out my 401K and maxed out my Roth IRA. and I invested $1,000 in the market every month. But now I'm going to try to max out my Roth IRA and I'm going to,

and I invest $500 in the market every month, just because my income is so much lower now, you know, $2,500 a month from my stipend is just $30,000 a year. And like, I can work, right? I can work the other 20 hours. But we'll see what I end up making this year, which will be the first full year, that I don't have a full-time job as a nurse. practitioner, but I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere around 50 to 60,000 this year. So I'm

happy to just max out my Roth and contribute $6,000 in the market for these three years while I'm in school. Yeah, I think that's great. Where have you been located during these last couple of years? I've been in Austin, Texas since 20, well, 2007. I came here for college. Is that where your rentals are? Yes. Oh, so the Austin market has kind of exploded lately because of, I mean, Austin in general, but Tesla just built some factory there, is it SpaceX or both? There's a ton of new tech companies, not new, but new headquarters and buildings here for all the tech companies.

And I bought my first condo in 2017, and then in early 2019, I bought a single family home and I house hacked that for a little while. and then rented the whole thing out last year when I realized I'm going back to school. I want to cut down on my housing expenses. And so I rent now. I rent and I have two rental properties. But it's nice to be able to rent something smaller that kind of fits my student budget a little bit better. And I still get to live alone, which is really nice. Because when I had the bigger house and I was house hacking, I had travel nurses living with me, which was really cool because it was like a nurse house. But it was definitely, a strain to have that revolving door of roommates. Whereas now that I live alone, it's nice to just be able to study here and not have to deal with that. So the biggest lever, it sounds like, in your journey to FI has been the real estate. At least that's one big lever. Would you agree? What do you think were like the biggest moves you made over the last five, six years since discovering FI? You know, I didn't I didn't buy the real estate with buy in mind. I bought the real estate just looking for a place to live. And I kind of by default became a landlord. So I bought this condo. I bought it at $142,000 back in 2017. Today it's worth like $205. And so that's four years, almost $60,000. And then I was like, this place is really small. Why did I buy?

buy such a small place. And it was because I was real nervous about taking on a mortgage. And so I didn't want to take on a huge mortgage, even though I could have afforded something much bigger at the time. Then I was able to buy another home while keeping the condo, rented out the condo, bought the second home. And then I was like, this place is really big. I should get some other people in here. And so I started renting out to travel nurses because Austin has a lot of nurses come on three-month contracts to work here in the local hospitals. And I had a few travel nurses live with me, and that paid like $1,400 out of my $1,700 mortgage.

So that helped me be able to save a significant amount on housing costs. And so that was one of the levers, kind of inadvertently, you know, house hacking and saving a lot on housing. The other lever was, putting 19% of almost 20% of my income because I was making about 100,000 as a nurse practitioner, putting that into my 401K and just letting that grow and maxing out the Roth IRA and investing in the market. So it was a little bit of both. I would say that I was a bit more intentional about the investing and the saving in the tax-advantaged accounts,

and then the real estate just kind of happened. Well, I think we're ignoring the fact that you're a nurse that makes a lot of money. And, I mean, nursing is a really great career. I am not a huge fan of the whole blood thing, so I could not be a nurse. I would be very squeamish. But I remember when I was in college, all these girls I was going to school with, I was at a junior college. And, oh, we're in the nursing program.

And it's like an 18-month program, this 100 years ago, an 18-month program. and then they're working making $50,000 a year. Meanwhile, I'm 18 months later still in college because I'm on a four-year program for some stupid degree that I never used. But nursing is a really, really amazing way to make kind of a lot of money really quickly. I mean, you mentioned contract work.

You're making contract. You have a on-call contract. I know nurses that are going traveling, especially during COVID. They're traveling around making a lot of money. And yes, you pay a little bit more for your rental as the nurse doing the traveling, but you're getting a lot more money for the travel. Yeah.

The income earning capacity is huge. And like I stay local. You know, I can't travel. I am doing a PhD. Like I don't want to uproot and go all over the place. And those jobs are usually full time. And I'm not allowed to work full time. But for example, like my contract work here in town ranges from 75 to 100.

dollars an hour. An hour? Yeah, as a nurse practitioner, right? So not as a nurse, but as a nurse practitioner, which means I can diagnose and treat and prescribe under the delegating authority of a physician an hour. Yeah, so like I'll work a seven-hour shift from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. and I need $700. That's fantastic. And sometimes I don't even see that many patients.

And you're able to do this for a total cost of $20,000 in a job. Well, to you at the end of those, the undergrad and graduate degree programs. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. 20,000 that I've put of my own money. That's fantastic. Yeah.

So what has happened to your, can you give us like a story, like a story arc maybe of like milestones and your net worth over the last couple of years? Like how's that gone? Sure. So I did want to give a shout out to everyone I know on Twitter. And I know this is how Mindy found me because I, I do have like a lot of. five friends on Twitter and that's really what has motivated me to like keep going and track my net worth and you know sometimes not buy that designer bag that I've been wanting um so milestones

I think when I reached 100K was like two years ago and now I'm at 320 so like once it really is true that once you reach the 100,000 like it just starts snowballing and I had made the plan to retire at 45. I believe this was before PhD. So that was assuming that I was going to be still maxing out my 401k. And, you know, that's another $20,000 a year that I'm not able to invest right now. So it may be a little bit later, but honestly, like, I'm going to graduate with a PhD at age 33 and I'm going to have 30 years to use that PhD. So I'm not, I'm not like the typical person that like wants to leave the workforce completely because I have such a useful skill and actually quite passionate about my work. And so I don't see myself getting a PhD at 33 and leaving the workforce

12 years later. I just don't think that that would be a very good use of all the education I've gotten. So for me, the retire early is more of like a work optional thing, right? Like at that point, I'll be able to say like, I want to do this work. I don't want to do this work. I want to teach full time. want to practice a little bit. I only want to do the things that I really want to do. And I think another thing that has helped me is keeping my expenses low enough that I never have to do something I don't want to do. Mindy's raising her arms. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, that is one of the lovers that Scott's got four lovers, spend less, earn more, create a business. And God, Scott, I've heard you say this a thousand times. Invent. Oh, I quit. Invest. Of course, invest. Okay, so you are spending less because you just don't need all of that stuff. You are earning more because you are actually, well, you're not totally earning more. You are, you're pulling, your, your handle is on the lever. But you're not actually pulling it yet. You're just going to school. But you're not paying for school, which is huge. Like every single thing about your story I love because,

it's intentional. You use that word earlier in the show. I'm intentional about my spending. I'm intentional about my investing. You pay yourself first. So, okay, sorry, I'm getting off course. My levers are pay myself first. Yeah. Invest. Spend less. And I mean, in a couple of years, you can sell that Austin property and be retired if you wanted to, which you don't. But I also love that aspect of your story. I don't want to retire early. That's not my goal. But you are taking all of the steps so that you could. Let's say you graduate from your PhD program. And now you are a doctor, nurse, a nurse doctor. Nurse scientist. And let's say you graduate from your program. And then you decide, wow, this is not what was in the brochure. I don't like any part of this. You don't

don't have to do anything with it because you're not in debt up to your eyeballs, because you got the PhD, you are still investing, you have the fallback to go be a nurse. And I don't say that in a bad way, although I'm not phrasing it properly, but you can still go make $100 an hour being a nurse practitioner. I mean, you have so many options because you made smart decisions in the beginning. I love this. If you're listening and you don't know what you want to be with your life, go be a nurse. There's a shortage. First of all, there's a shortage so you can go and get a job like almost instantly. Apparently you can make a boatload of money. And then if that, if you decide that's not what you love, like how long did it take to become a nurse? So my undergraduate degree was a

bachelor's degree, but you can get an associate's degree and it takes a little bit less time. So my degree was four years because I went to a university and I got a bachelor's. But like, for example, the local community college has a two-year program, but it's really closer to four years because you spend about one to two years doing the prerequisite courses. So really the advantage is the bachelor's. You know, the bachelor's makes you eligible for a master's, whereas the associates doesn't. But it's the same license. You get the same license from the board of nursing, whether you have an associates or a bachelor's degree.

I just went as straight out of high school. So that was the degree I got. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier.

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I just want to chime in here with a couple of thoughts. One, some people are going to listen to this and they're going to say, well, great, you know, she makes $100,000 a year when, you know, when she's not in school and $100 an hour. And it doesn't sound like you have a family with that stuff. So it's just you. So you get to save all that money and put that away in there. And that's more than many families earn. Even what you're making right now is more than some families earn any year with that kind of stuff.

And to that, I would respond with a couple of other points here. One, you've intentionally chosen a career path that is very lucrative. It is not completely inaccessible. You have to be smart and sharp to get into it, but it's an option available to many people out there that can be more impactful than some other degrees. Mindy's the first to talk crap about her degree. But I want to say that that's a set of choices you made there. And second, I think there's a ton of people out there in a similar position to you who are not building wealth and who are not going to be fi easily and just formulaically

in their mid-40s that are in very similar situations. What do you think it is that is different about you from your peers who are in the, you know, I'm sure you have lots of friends or know people that are in relatively similar positions who are not on this course? Like, what is that difference? Why aren't people doing this, what seems to me, obviously correct way to handle your finances and money in similar situations? Right. So I get your, I get what you're saying about like, oh, I'm single.

I don't have kids. And I, and to counter that, I'll say, so that's been my opportunity cost, right? Like, I want to have a family. Like, I want to be married and I want babies. But, like, I'm in a PhD program. And when I graduate, I'll be close to 34. And that'll be the beginning of my career as a nurse scientist. And I'll have to choose.

Like, do I want to have a baby and take a big pause in my career when I'm literally, like, climbing? Or do I not have a baby for another two or three years and wait until I'm 37? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I've really struggled with that recently thinking, oh, you know, I quote unquote, did all the right things in my 20s. And like, I really focused on my career. and I worked hard so that I wouldn't have debt.

And like in that, I don't think I missed the opportunity because I don't think it presented itself, but I'm single and I don't have kids. And when is that going to happen? You know, like, where is, where does that fit in like this journey? Which, which, I mean, I just want to say, like, that's the opportunity cost, right? Like, on the outside, it seems like, oh, she's got, you know, she makes so much money and, like, everything is going to work out for her. But like at some point, I'll have to sacrifice something.

Something will have to give. Like, that's just life. Thank you for sharing that. I just want to say like, that's real. That's that that's raw. That's like a part of the deal. And I appreciate you sharing that. But also I want to point out that there are probably many peers who are in the same

situation who are also experiencing that opportunity cost yet have no net worth and no framework for approaching money, I guess. And I guess that was more the intent of my question, although I really appreciate that context as well with that. Right. Yes. I think the difference was that I really had a goal of, you know, this is where I'm going to be and I'm not going to be in debt. And because I had seen my family be in debt, right? And I had seen what that did to us emotionally and psychologically. And I was like, I'm not going to live that way. I'm just not. And there were definitely points. where I was like, I want to, you know, like, I want to yolo. Like, I want to go on all these trips.

And like, I want to travel. And but I'm in graduate school and working full time. Like, I didn't even have time to do that. Like, I didn't even have time to spend money. And I think a big part of it, too, was getting informed about what to do, how to do it, getting the right people in my corner and making friends in the FI space. And that's why I had mentioned like Twitter people before, because sometimes you'll meet people who are very, like, contradictory and will be like, oh, you need to just enjoy your life. Like, stop worrying about retirement. You know, like, you're only 30 years old.

Like, I'm 31 now, but, you know, like, don't worry about it. And I didn't want to be around those people because I was like, no, I am worried about, like, sometimes my parents. Like, I'm like, wait, am I kind of their retirement plan, you know? And I, and this is a particular like immigrant struggle, child of immigrant struggle, right? Like kind of having to navigate everything on your own because your parents, like, they didn't grow up here. They don't really know like how to do it like the quote unquote right way. And so I think it was a very much like an internal motivating factor and the fact that I, I am smart.

I am sharp and like I was able to put in the work and willing to put in the work where there are a lot of smart people who are not willing to put in the work. Yeah. And it sounds like you're also among that group of smart people who is also willing to just spend less than you earn. Because sometimes it's it's, hey, I'm willing to put in the work and earn the money, but I'm also, I'm not willing to keep it. the simple act of automating the investment profile of 500 bucks a month and those types of things. Right. Right. And also just like not having friends that aren't impressed by my outward stuff, right? Like that's a big one. Like hanging out with people that don't care what car you drive and like don't necessarily care where you live as long as it's safe. You know, like they don't, they're not looking for those things. Like they care about me being a good friend.

And that's how we value each other. But I don't need to be around people who are driving luxury cars or who are, you know, and now I kind of am like, that status symbol is a sign that you are actually not that smart with money. That right there is the number one way to get to financial independence is to not hang out with people who want you to spend more money than you feel comfortable spending. That I live in Longmont, Colorado. Mr. Money Mustache is in my city.

There's a lot of people who move to Longmont, Colorado. I am kind of in this financial independence bubble where nobody that I hang out with is into spending a lot of money and, you know, cares about my car. And, you know, we have like, oh, my car has 180,000 miles. Ooh, my car has 190,000 miles. I've got an electric car. Like, it's almost like a contest who can be the cheap. Yeah. And it's definitely this bubble that I have become surrounded by. And it sometimes is, like, I have to take a step back and be like, not everybody is in this space. But yeah, I had friends who just wanted to spend money all the time. And it's really difficult. Even, like, I feel like I'm pretty opinionated and fairly strong. No.

Fairly strong personality. Me neither. And, you know, I'm not me. I have no opinions. Yeah, I feel like, you know, I like to think that I'm like I'm a strong person. But when I'm surrounded by people who are, you know, oh, let's go out to this and spend a lot of money. Like, let's go out to this expensive thing or let's do this. It's like, oh, I don't really want to do that.

But it's hard to speak up. So having a bunch of friends that, you know, having people surrounding you who are on the same. financial pages you is so valuable. So valuable. It can be okay to drop a friendship when it isn't something that is benefiting you anymore, you know, and that's, I feel, I don't know, I feel kind of snotty for saying that, but if you've got people who are not helping you further your life in the direction that you want it to go, it's okay to pull back a little bit.

But I really do love that. You know, you're surrounded by people who don't care about what kind of car you drive. Right. And it really doesn't matter. I mean, it gets me from point A to point B. I have driven the luxury car and it was a pain in the butt. It was always breaking in some way and I was always having to deal with that. And so now I have a reliable car and I live in a, you know, I don't live like downtown

where rent is $2,500 a month. then that would eat up my entire stipend. But I live in like, I still live in a nice neighborhood and like I like my place. So I also don't feel like I need to impress anyone. That's another benefit is because you could. Oh, I get $2,500. That's free money. I can put that all on rent.

And then I'll just charge my food and my clothes and my spending. And I know it would give me the hebie-jeebies too. But you purposely made a. choice. You're consciously spending your money in a way that aligns with your values. And that's, that's this whole. Well, I think it's interesting that you mentioned you live in like Mr. Money Mustash Land because I'm not there. Like, I'm not frugal. You know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't say that I'm even like on the frugal extreme. I'm just intentional, right? And I ask myself, like, does spending this reflect my values? Like, what do I value?

you, right? Because I'm not going to be the person. I'm not like couponing. I'm not doing like the super frugal things. But I've established a pretty good rhythm to where I know how much I spend every month and I know that it's always going to be less than I have. I'm curious about what's going to happen for you once you finish your program. When does the program finish and what do you expect your income potential to change to following that? So I finish if all goes well and I get a dissertation done and, you know, the allotted time. I finish in August of 2023, so in two more years. And I have lots of options and a PhD opens a lot of doors. So I'm not set on what I will do. Surely I'll probably have some offers to work full-time as an academic, right, and pursue that

research, tenure, track life. I'm not sure I want to do that yet. There is the option, too, of being a researcher for a pharmaceutical company, which does pay a lot more. And being a, they call them medical science liaisons, which I could do just as a nurse practitioner, but I'm sure that it would pay more with a PhD. So I'd probably meet closer to 200,000 as a PhD-prepared medical science liaison, because you're kind of like the scientists, but also the clinician that can connect clinicians to the research work. Because, clinicians don't necessarily know the nitty-gritty of research. So they have those positions. I could go write health policy. Honestly, like jobs in the public sector don't pay a lot, but the benefits are

good. And I'm willing to take that pay cut because I've set myself up in such a way that I don't need to make a ton of money for the rest of my career. Right. I don't really, it would be nice, but I don't have to seek that super high-paying job if I don't want to do it. And if I want to teach, you know, if I want to have a family teaching as a full-time professor would be ideal. And I could practice a little bit on the side with the contract work kind of like I do now. Awesome. So it sounds like while you're not FI, you have a tremendous amount of great options that

are going to appear materialize in front of you once you finish the PhD program. and those can either be high income or low income or whatever, but you're going to continue growing your net worth regardless, and you're going to find some time between the next five and 15 years, regardless which way you choose, but you really don't care which way it goes because it's just going to be what's the best option that presents itself once I finish the program.

That's a powerful spot to be in. Totally. Yeah, and I hadn't really realized the magnitude of it until you just said it, but at this point, it doesn't matter, right? And honestly, like Mindy was saying, you know, at the end, like, if I say I don't really want to do anything with the PhD, like, that's fine too because I am really enjoying the season of my life. And like I feel like I'm doing the PhD at the right time. I have the right amount of clinical experience to be able to be a good learner and apply my experience to it. You know, I'm obviously unencumbered by family and children. And so I just see. myself looking back in 10 years at this period in my life and being like, that was awesome. I'm so glad I did it, whether I get anything out of the PhD, like just being able to be a full-time student again, which I love was awesome.

You know, and to not get into debt, that's even better. Well, and you've got the elevated ability to, let's see, how do I want to phrase this? You've got, like, you were making $100,000. and now you have the potential to make $200,000. Well, even if you don't love that career, you could do that for a year, crank a bunch of money into an account and, you know, into investments and then kind of be done.

But also, I think you're at Coast FI right now. You said your net worth is $300,000. If that a safe estimate of your growth potential is that it doubles every seven years. So in seven years, you'll have 600,000, and in 14 years, you'll have 1.2 million. That's, I mean, and you're spending nothing. So if you continue to spend nothing and have great benefits or you're just saving everything and continuing to invest, that's going to be, I mean, and what is that?

14, 21 years, that's going to be 2.4 million. And then you're going to have to start thinking about, oh, how do I reduce my RMDs for when I'm 70, when do you have to take those? 72 and I have to start withdrawing money from my accounts. Now I have to worry about that. So, I mean, you are setting yourself up because of these choices you made, these intelligent choices you made when you were younger, you were setting yourself up for some pretty amazing life experiences in the future. And it's all like now it's your choice. Now it's what do I choose to do instead of I have. to work because I have to put food on the table. You already have food on the table now,

forever. Right. I definitely feel coast-fi and I feel like, you know, even though I took a significant pay cut, probably about half or one-third, because in 2019 I made almost 180,000 because they worked a lot of extra hours at $100 an hour. So like that was my highest earning year, 2019. And now I make a third of that. But my lifestyle is relatively the same. It was just that all that money I put into my investments. And I don't feel like I'll ever need more than this, right? It's not like I'm working hard so that I'm like, one day I'm going to have the eight bedroom house.

Like I just don't even aspire to that. It's not meaningful. It doesn't create any more happiness for me. And it's funny that, well, so I talked about how I'm single, but I am in a relationship and we met on a dating app. And one of the things I learned in Phi is that time is the ultimate luxury. You can't buy more time. And so like on my profile, I put time is the ultimate luxury. Will you spend some of yours on me?

And he said that was so cute. Is he into the FI community as well? He is. He's not like as intentional or as into it as I am, but he's very responsible with money, right? Which is something that is definitely a criteria that I was looking for. Like I didn't want to be with the guy with the BMW who like has no money in savings, which there are a lot of those tech bros here in Austin. But yeah.

So I. I live by that. That time is the ultimate luxury, right? And now, even though I'm in a PhD program full time, I have so much flexibility, right? I'm not stuck in a clinic from eight to five every day. Like, I was chained and shackled to that clinic. And so that is like so much compensation to me. It's not a monetary.

You know, I don't get to max out a 401k right now. But if my mom needs me to go to an appointment with her, I can go. or if my friend needs me to be at her house because some repair man is coming, I can go do that for her. Right. So that is priceless. Well, is there anything else that you want to cover before we get to the famous four and begin wrapping up? I don't think so. Do you all have any more questions? Oh, we got a lot more questions. We have five more questions at least. Oh, okay. Go ahead.

Okay. What is your favorite finance book? Ooh. I actually really liked Broke Millennial by Aaron Lowry. Oh, love it. We've had Aaron on three times on the podcast here. What are the episode numbers there, Mindy? Erin can be found on episode 24 on episode 81 and on episode 169. And each one, she talks about a different, she covers a different topic. And, you know, it's all about being open and honest. about finance with your family, with your spouse, with your, you know, in your life. Like, there's no need to hide this. And even, like, as I've dated here in Austin, I think I catch people off guard sometimes because I'm just, like, very open about my finances because I don't associate them with my

self-worth as much as the typical person might. And so I'm like, I don't really care if you know how much I make because it doesn't, it's not really a reflection of me. Yeah, it's just a topic. That's what we needed to change with money in general is not making it to boom. Just a topic. Oh yeah, it's one of 50 topics you could talk about in a date in life with their friends anywhere. Um, with that. What was your biggest money mistake? Buying a new car in my early 20s. That is the number one answer to this question is buying a new car. But it was really cool. It was, I mean, it was. Great. I don't, I don't regret it. I just, it was a mistake.

What is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out? Join a community of people who are like-minded. That's great advice. That is great advice. Oh, like the bigger pockets money Facebook group. Oh, see that plug? Oh, there you go. At Facebook.com slash group slash BP Money. What is your favorite joke to tell at parties? Ooh.

What did one strawberry say to the other strawberry? I don't know this one. I don't know this one, yeah. If you weren't so fresh, we wouldn't be in this jam. That's awesome. I love it. You didn't even laugh. There's a whole spread.

I was busy trying to think of a response pun. So there's a whole spread of these berry puns. I love it. Okay. Where can people find out more of a lot? You got you, Brenda. I am on Twitter at Almost Brenda, like the word I almost made it, Almost Brenda. I'm also on Instagram with that handle. And actually, my friend and I have our own podcast called Minority Millennial Money. And we are trying to target minority people who are interested in getting their financial life together. Ooh. And where can somebody find this podcast if they wanted to listen? It's on Spotify. It's on Apple. It's pretty much everywhere. You can. find a podcast and we are on Twitter also as M.M.M. MoneyPod.

Awesome. We will link to all of these in our show notes, which can be found at biggerpockets.com slash money show 195. Brenda, this was a delight to talk to you. I have been following you for quite some time on Twitter. And you are a delightful person on Twitter and even more so in real life. So this was lovely. And I wish you all the success in your PhD, Dr. Dr. Nurse, nurse, nurse scientist. There you go. People who get a PhD can call themselves doctor, right?

Can you be a doctor almost? Yeah, because a doctor is just an expert in something. A medical doctor is a physician. Oh, that I'm going to be Dr. Mindy, because I'm an expert in talking. Podcasting. Dr. Jensen. Dr. Jensen. Okay.

Brenda, this was wonderful. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Have a good day. Okay, that was Brenda Olmos. Scott, what did you think of her story? I thought it was straightforward. I don't think there was like any surprises. It was just she decided to get intentional about money and she built several hundred thousand dollar net worth over three to five years. And she is going to coastify regardless of which, which option she chooses in the future.

So I think it's just an example of like how it can be really, really easy. if you're willing to let it compound and just sustain it for a period of years here. So I think she's doing all the right things. And, you know, look, she's got her advantages. But our goal here on this show is to showcase every money story. And there are millions and millions of people out there who have positions that have more income and more potential to move towards FI than Brenda, who are not doing the basic 101 things they need to be doing to just create the life of optionality that she's created. Exactly. She is living her best life. She's not feeling any sort of like, oh, I wish I could do this. What is it? FOMO. She's not missing out on anything. If she wants to do something, she does it. There's just, she doesn't want to do everything, which I think is the best way to live your life. If you are a parent and you're listening to this and your child is maybe struggling with, oh, what do I, want to do when I grow up. Go explore nursing. The flexibility that a nurse degree that an RN can give

you is enormous. I want to evolve that what you're saying here, though, about nursing over the past five years, you know, you wouldn't know it to look at the news really anywhere you look, but real wages, inflation adjusted wages have absolutely exploded over the last. five years in this country, five, six years, right? Multiple administrations, no political points being scored here with this. It's just a fact. If you look up at real wages, Fred, real wages, St. Louis, Federal Reserve, and look at the data across all professions for median hourly income, it has exploded.

It's much higher than it was in the 1980s. Data only goes back 50 years for the one, the source that I'm looking at. But it's at one of the higher points, it seems like, in U.S. history to a large extent. It's certainly higher than it's been through the 90s, 2000s, those kinds of things. And that real wage growth is not hitting every profession equally, right? It's hitting places maybe nursing, truck driving, the trades, like construction trades and those types of things. And so I think one of the things here is like for Brenda, it almost seems too easy in

terms of her income potential in those types of things because of the way she chose a profession that was on the right side of one of those trend lines. Those professions are still out there. I meet truck drivers who are making $60,000 to $80,000 a year. You don't need a lot of degree to get into that profession, right? You can only imagine, I don't meet enough construction workers out there. I can only imagine what's going on in that industry. But this is happening in society in many different professions,

and I think it would behoove you if you're wondering about how do I make it easy, why are other people able to do this? Is there a chance for a switch? Is there a chance to move on into one of these professions that's on one of these power curves that is going in the right direction, even as other professions are not seeing that kind of growth? Absolutely. There is a huge shortage in the trades.

There's a huge shortage in truck driving. There's a huge shortage in nursing. I would love to hear more about what professions you're seeing great wages and a huge shortage in. Let's ask about that in the Facebook group at Facebook.com slash groups slash BP money. What professions do you see that are hiring and can't get enough people? Those are where your kids who are like, I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. That's where they should focus. A lot of these professions are really easy to get into and start earning money and earn while you learn, like the trades. You don't just go to school for us.

a month and then you're in the trades. You're learning for like two, three, four, five years, but you're earning while you learn. That is so much better than being in college and, you know, just spending money on college, especially for, you know, college isn't for everybody. I probably would have been a better welder than a fashion designer. You would have been a great welder, Mindy. You are a great welder, I'm sure. I would have been a terrible welder. Yeah. I'm not bad. But anyway, yeah, the college College isn't the answer for everybody, and it can be, it can be great. But, you know, look for a job that has a huge potential. And, you know, computers and that sort of thing, they have a great potential. It's a different kind of mindset for the computer programming. Like, I would be a terrible computer programmer, no matter what anybody says. I would be horrible at it. But I could probably be a really good nurse if I get past the whole blood thing, which I couldn't do. We just talked to Chris, right? And Chris, sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself, has Chris's episode released by the time that we're releasing this episode? I think so. Yes, Chris was two weeks ago. Okay, great.

So we just talked to Chris a few weeks ago and Chris is an electrician making incredible money. He's on the side of one of those curves that I just described where that is, that is a booming industry. And other professions are getting hammered in some cases or not growing over time as well. And I think that that's a, that's a macro trend that we have to be aware of and, and, and try to get on the right side of those types of things, because it can be hard to switch. But if you can, if you can, if you can put yourself in the right situation inside one of these, these professions, um, I think you can have some of the optionality that, that, that, that has. She's, she's basically saying, yeah, I'm not really trying that hard and I'm building tons

of wealth. Make some right decisions. And, and that can, that can be, uh, you know, that can be an automatic output of, of, of a couple of these things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The whole, purpose of this show is to introduce you to new things. So if it interests you, you can go and do some exploring and research and see what really can help you lead your best life. Okay, Scott, should we get out of here? Yep, let's do it. From episode 195 of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, he is Scott Trench, and I am Indy Jensen saying, in honor of the end of Girl Scout Cookie season, peace out, Girl Scout.