BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 2025’s Best Money Hacks to Save $1,000+/Month (and Retire Earlier!) w/All the Hacks

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

Do you want to know how to save $1,000 a month (or more!) with simple spending and saving tweaks? Today, we’re giving you the BEST money hacks for 2025 from the expert, Chris Hutchins of All the Hacks! Some of these smart money moves will save Chris over $20,000 just next year, and that’s not even including all the other hacks he shared in this episode. The best part? These money hacks can help you retire early by substantially reducing your cost of living. Chris starts by sharing one of the most genius ways he’s making extra money. You could call it a side hustle, and Chris has a LOT of them to share. Then, we start taking HUGE chunks of money out of your monthly expenses as Chris shows you how to slash all your insurance costs, reduce your property taxes effortlessly, save tens of thousands a year on healthcare, and easily go out to eat for thirty percent less. If your 2025 goal is to save more, spend less, and get to FIRE faster, this is the perfect way to start, and missing out on these tips could cost you tens of thousands!  In This Episode We Cover Chris’s favorite side hustle of 2024 that’s making him extra money (nobody has thought of this!) How to slash your property tax bill in exchange for a couple of hours of your time Reevaluating your car insurance and why you MUST get new quotes ASAP Savvy healthcare hacks that could save Chris $24,000 this year alone  How to get a deep discount whenever you eat out (twenty to thirty percent off!) The one thing you can’t (and probably shouldn’t) hack  And So Much More! Links from the Show Mindy on BiggerPockets Scott on BiggerPockets Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Join BiggerPockets for FREE Email Mindy: [e-mail] Email Scott: [e-mail] BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Money 473 - Holiday Shopping Hacks That’ll Save You Hundreds (or Thousands) This Season w/Chris Hutchins BiggerPockets Real Estate 783 - Home Buying Hacks: Finding The Perfect House (and Agent!) w/Chris Hutchins BiggerPockets Real Estate 955 - BiggerNews: Real Estate vs. Stocks, the Ultimate Wealth-Building Debate w/Chris Hutchins and The Motley Fool Why You Shouldn't Stop Working Once You Hit Financial Freedom w/Chris Hutchins All the Hacks  All the Hacks 34 - Insider Tricks to Healthcare, Prescriptions and Medical Bills with Marshall Allen All the Hacks 104 - Optimizing Your Insurance Policies (Auto, Home/Renters, Umbrella, Life, Disability, Pet, and Travel) All the Hacks 181 - Making an Easy $3k/mo from Online Deals with Kai Blueberry Pediatrics  in-kind - Restaurant Savings App Ownwell - Property Tax Reducer  Summer Health    Check out more resources from this show on BiggerPockets.com and https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-590 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you want to know how to get discounts almost anywhere? Travel hacks, spending hacks, medical hacks. If there's one thing that Chris Hutchins has learned, it's that everything is negotiable. And each year, new financial opportunities come. So we are excited to hear the way our dear listeners should be looking out for big savings in 2025. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me, as always, is my not-a-hack co-host, Scott Trench. Thanks, Mindy. Always appreciate your. you bring in strong fundamentals to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. Bigger Pockets has a goal of creating one million millionaires.

You're in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. But it's especially attainable for those who are willing to invest the time to learn about all of the hacks that can save you tremendous percentages of your annual expenditure and make you some extra money on the side as well. In case you don't know, Chris Hutchins is the award-winning host of the podcast, all the hacks. You may remember him from Bigger Pockets Money episodes 355 and 473. And he's also

been on the fire series with Mindy because we all love him that much. Chris also, fun fact, moderated the fierce, bloody debate that Dave Meyer and I had with the fool folks about real estate versus stocks back on the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. So Chris, welcome back to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. We are so excited to have you and chat with you once again. I am excited to be back here. Okay, Chris, for those who haven't heard of your podcast or listen to any of our previous episodes where we've had you on, can you give me a quick little overview of who you are and how you came to know about literally every hack on the planet?

Yeah, so I'm Chris, I'm kind of one of those crazy optimizers, spreadsheet for everything. I kind of just don't like taking no as an answer, but I also don't like spending money. And so I had this long history of, well, just because, I don't want to spend money doesn't mean I don't want to take a nice vacation. Doesn't mean I don't want to drive a nice car. Doesn't mean I don't want to insert everything in the world that costs money. And I've spent the last 20 plus years getting creative at finding ways to do all those awesome things without having to spend as much. That is awesome because I am not that kind of person. I love hearing you are my cheat code. You go out and find all the cheat codes and then you are my cheat code

so I don't have to spend all this time doing it. I just, I feel like I can't figure out the answers to some of these things. So if you are also like me and you don't know how to do all of this stuff, you don't have to because Chris knows it all. Chris, what's the best hack you found for 2024? This is pretty tough, right? I wrote down a list of like 15 of them and then I'm working on an episode that by the time this comes out, maybe it will also be out of my top 2024 takeaways. So there is a lot. I think that if I had to peg just one thing, I did an episode with this guy name Kai who runs a podcast called The Daily Churn. It was episode 181, all the hacks.com slash 181. And he does all these little deals every month. And ever since talking to him about them,

he's probably making $30,000 a month or some insane amount of money. Like I would say getting, you know, when he got started, it was like a couple thousand. But like it's just everything from how does he just use meal kits and find the right deals to be able to never pay for food? How does he, you know, find these different things. And so I've been picking up some of them. I've been buying and reselling gold at Costco. I've been like finding discounted gift cards and reselling them. Like, I've just been picking up all these side hustles. And so I think the biggest financial hack, if I summarized it, would be finding the right little side hustles to kind of get excited about that don't feel like work, but generate a profit. Are we going to dive into some of those?

Let's start with the one that stuck out to me here of buying. and reselling gold bullion at Costco. How does this work? What do you do? So for anyone watching out video, this is like a little gold bar. It's way smaller than you'd think. And it costs about $2,600.

But yesterday, I was at Costco with no intention of buying any gold. And gold bars were $2,669.99. So 2669. And I just looked on an app called Pure and it's marketplace. So I look and I'm like, what could I sell this gold for? And it was like, oh, I could sell this gold for? I could sell the gold for like $26.50. So I'd lose $19.

Right. But Costco has an executive rewards program where you get 2% back on all your spending for the year. So that alone covered that. But they also let you put on a credit card. So here I am buying this gold bar losing $19, but also making 2% in Costco executive rewards and 4% or more on a credit card. And now all of a sudden I'm like, well, yeah, I'll take five bars of gold. So let me just as math here. So 2% of 2,600 is going to be $52 plus a little bit of change.

And you're going to get, what was the other part of that? Whatever your credit card gets, right? Like maybe you open a new card and you're going to get a 200,000 point signup bonus. Maybe, you know, you're earning four points per dollar on the new U.S. Bank Smartly Visa. Like, I can't pretend to tell you which credit card you have, but I would say if you stack things up, earning 6%, what's 6% on $5, $2,600 bars of gold? That's $780. You know what? I spent less than that on Costco.

So, like, I just paid for my groceries. Okay, so this is, this is sort of scalable. But then you have to have a large amount of gold that you're storing at home. Oh, no, like, I've got FedEx boxes on the ground. I sold it while I was in the, like, while I was walking before, I picked it up, before I got to the door at Costco. You all know where they like look at your receipt and you're always wondering what they're really doing.

in that period of time, I'd already sold it. But you still have to, you still have to mechanically. Yeah, I got to put it in a box. They send you a free label. Yeah, yeah, okay. Take it to the, you know, the FedEx, drop it off. Gone. Awesome.

Okay, all right. Okay, hold on, hold on. Chris, you said I'll take five bars. Does Costco limit you to five bars or did you just? Five bars per account. Forever? You know, split up. I don't know that woman.

They also limit you to 62,000. $500 of spend a year before the 2% ins. So, you know, you and your partner can have an account. You get a business account. You know, you can take your parents to Costco, use their account. So that's just like one example. But basically, there's stuff all the time that's on sale in limited quantities. And what I've realized is like there are a lot of interesting opportunities. Black Friday, there's a bunch of electronic goods that are on sale for prices that people overseas would love to pay. So there's these buying groups where they'll buy these products for a small margin. But you get to keep all the rewards of any purchase you make. And we're not going to do an

episode on the taxes that come with credit card points because that could get a little interesting. But I think that any time you see an amazing deal, you can kind of be the person that maybe I used to be, which is like, oh, this thing's on sale. I should buy it in case I ever need it. And now I'm like, oh, this thing's on sale. I should buy it and sell it immediately. because someone out there is probably interested in it. So that's true about gold. This morning I bought $200 or $750 worth of gift cards at finish line. I'm not going to finish line.

30 seconds after I bought them, I sold the gift cards for like a 2 or 3% spread. And it's like if you stack these things up and every day you're finding an opportunity to spend $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 and you know, you're taking a 2 to 3% margin on that, whether that's in the form of margin or Costco rewards or credit card rewards, you know, if you could spend a thousand bucks a day taking 2%, that's like almost 10 grand a year. How can you, how much can you scale that up? Can you get it to $10,000 a day?

Well, now you're making $73,000. Can you get to 5% margins? Now you're making like over $150,000 a year. I love it. So I think what takes the cake is going far enough to understand all the things that are happening so that you can diversify because you never know, right, Costco. doesn't sell gold like it's out of stock sometimes. Or sometimes you go and the price is like you're losing 4% just buying it. So it's not a good day there. But sometimes you go to the grocery store and gift cards are 10% off and you've got a Safeway coupon attached to your Safeway account and all the sudden you could buy a Best Buy gift card for 20% off and you could sell it for 5% off. So like I'd say diversification wins and just kind of going down these rabbit holes.

The best hack is just always paying attention. and always keeping an eye out for these opportunities to make a few points of spread. Sometimes you win 2%. That's a win. Sometimes you make $1,200 in a day on it. And what is that, a 40% spread. Yeah, on a $2,800 purchase for the $4,000 sale. And that's really the way to maximize what you're talking about here.

Yes, I think the big hack is just realizing that when you find a good deal, it turns out there are marketplaces of people who will buy. gold, who will buy gift cards, who will buy products and ship them overseas. So, like, a friend of mine bought a thousand HP laptops on Black Friday and made, like, $15 on each one, plus probably made, like, four points per dollar buying them. So, like, you buy a thousand laptops and you make $15, but you also make $4.00, like, that's like probably $20,000 in a day. All right. We'll be talking about gold and gift arbitrage, and we'll even be covering saving money on insurance after the break. Stay tuned. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people

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Is that correct? It depends. Like if you put $800,000, you know, if you had $800,000 of limit across all of your cards, right? But how quickly can you get paid back? So I sent some gold yesterday. They'll receive, they received it today. They'll probably get me the money by Thursday. And my credit card bill is probably due in 30 days. Like, the statement hasn't even closed. So, Like, you need the limit and you need to, like, be willing to, you know, there's some risk in anything you're doing, right? You could buy a bunch of gold bars and drop one in the sidewalk and, like, that's going to burn. That eats your profit for the year.

But I would say, yes, like, I would not encourage anyone to go to Costco with 20 friends and buy that quantity of gold and then be like, I'm going to start huge. But, like, the more you kind of dabble and understand how different things work and realize that any deal you find might be a deal for someone else, like, that's where it's where it it's interesting. This is why I love talking to you so much because it's it you can tell my brain just does not work the same way that yours does. Like this this this cons these concepts are so foreign to me. It's this is not it's not in my wheelhouse to go to Costco and buy 12,500 plus whatever and change worth of gold bullion arbitrage it for a small loss and then take the

points on there. Like I'm just like okay that's how like I don't even like oh then I got to ship the gold. I'm going to be thinking about it for the next three. And you're like, no, I'm going to go take that on. I'm going to go make that spread. I'm going to like 5% on this, $700. And that's my Tuesday. But, but, okay, so you've been to Costco though, right, Scott? I go all the time.

Yeah, I'm going to night. Okay, you know those gift cards? You got like Instacart, 80 bucks for $100. Uber, 80 bucks for $100. DoorDash, $80 for $100. I was talking to a friend the other day, and this is a person who spends a lot of money on DoorDash, like $5,000 a year, and never goes to Costco.

And I was like, hmm. So what if I could just get you five? $5,000 of DoorDash gift cards at 10% off, right? And they were like, that's a great deal, because I spend $5,000 on DoorDash all the time. If you could save me 10%. And I was like, just to be clear, if you want to drive to Costco for $200 a time, you could buy these for 20% off. But I could probably just reach out to a bunch of people I know and say, hey, everybody, go buy these. I'll buy them for, you know, $5 over every time you go to Costco, just start collecting them. And that's what other people are doing online. And

And so, you know, everything you see, most people are paying full price for DoorDash and Instacard and Top Golf and Cinemark Cinemas. Like, if you want to get old school, I was at Costco, they had Cinemark gift cards. Go buy them a Costco and stand outside the movie theater and just sell them on the street for, you know, half the margin. Like, I just, every time I see a deal, I'm like, there's got to be a way to build some business around this. How does this translate to your investing approach?

Like, do you think about investing separately from this goal? flip, I'm going to term it here. How do you actually think about like long-term wealth creation? So all my money is in VTI. So we have we have a boring old school, never touch it, VTI, passive index fund investment approach coupled with I'm going to take a 10% spread on Costco gift cards and multiply that out as much as possible. Yeah. And sometimes it's maybe it's not to make money, right? Maybe if I could forget the spread and find a really good. good friend and save him $1,000, maybe that relationship building practice is worth more than taking a few basis points off that deal. Because one day, maybe I do a business deal with that person.

There's lots of currencies that aren't all USD or, you know, Troy ounce gold. But yeah, so that's kind of like been the really exciting thing that I've been messing around with, if you will, this year is just finding these little column side hustles, column whatever you want, that have been just kind of getting me really excited, whether it's buying groups and reselling things, whether it's gold, whether it's gift cards, I don't know. So this all sounds awesome. I hear how excited you are about it. It sounds super fun, but I'm going to be honest. I am not going over to my Costco, even if they do have gold bars. I'm not going to grab these and sell these because that's a lot of mental bandwidth that I just don't have.

What are some of your favorite hacks that are a little less, you know, I got to do it right now kind of thing? Because my whole life is frantic and I'm trying to calm it down. So this, like I can hear how excited you are. I would love to be able to be that excited about this kind of thing. But it just, it's giving me a little bit of anxiety to think about all of this mental bandwidth that I would have to spend in order to make sure that I sold this gold because I don't want to get stuck with gold.

I like to think of saving and making money as kind of two different directions. If you want more money, you can spend less or you can make more. Like those are really, it's a simple equation. And there are probably two big levers there. One, you could look at all of your spending and find out if there are ways to make that spending less. So I would argue if you're spending a lot of money on travel and you want to go learn the ins and outs of, you know, points and miles and credit card rewards and that kind of stuff, you could cut your travel costs way, way down.

You want to cut your food costs down. Like, go try every, there's like 20 meal kit companies that are all going to offer you like a free meal kit every time you try it. Go try all 20 of them in 20 weeks in a row and you're basically going to have free groceries for, you know, a third of the year. You know, pick whatever area you're spending a lot of money on. And I think you'll find some creative solution. And I think you'll probably be more motivated to save money, like to cut.

back on what you're paying than you would to just make a little extra. So a great example, we've got two kids. We're saving for their college. And I found that if you stack all these different ways that you shop online. So I don't know when this is coming out, but holidays, people are shopping online and you're like, well, I've got to spend a lot of money for the holidays. Go look at your credit card, your Chase, your Amex, your Bank of America, what deals are there. Go look at, you know, cashback sites like cashback monitors, see what Racketon's offering. look at picking the right card and stack it all up. And sometimes you can save 10, 15% on something you're already buying.

And there was a case this year I did this episode on saving on college. And it turns out that you could buy gift cards for college 529 investment for like 10% off. And it felt easier to save money on a thing I was already going to spend on than to try to go make a little extra money. So that would be one approach is focused. If it feels like a lot of mental overhead to try and go make a little bit more money, would it feel like less mental overhead if you were cutting back on what you already spend? And I would say focus on the big things. A massive bill that, funny enough, is due today in my county is property tax.

So our property tax is pretty high. We live in the Bay Area. And I was looking online, it was like, hmm, you can appeal this. Interest rates are high. I went in and just appealed our property tax. and we brought the value of our house down by 25%. And for anyone who knows Bay Area Real Estate, I assure you that saving 25% on your property tax bill for the year

is a massive win, like travel budget for the year kind of like level win. And that one took me a couple hours, like to save, you know, four figures. So I would say look at where you're spending money and focus there because it'll probably be easier because you're like, I got to, I'm going to get money back that I, otherwise we'll spend. Okay, I love that tip. I have successfully argued against my property tax increase multiple times simply by following the rules of whichever municipality that I happened to be living in at the time. That's a really great tip, though, for everybody, if you have a property

tax bill, appeal it and see what happens because you could save a lot of money. I think that's great. That's great advice. And it's an awesome win. And if you can do it. But like, how do how should I think about that, right? I'm the CEO here at Bigger Pockets. I have 40 hours that are very busy every week during regular work hours and put it in time on top of that. Do I have to physically go to a courthouse, for example, in order to appeal my property taxes in person? Or can I do this everything up? How can I mechanically fit these hacks into my life? So here's the great thing. And it's funny because two of the biggest ones for me, if I look at the dollars saved this year, appealing my property tax and like travel rewards were the two biggest ones.

And on one hand, property tax, you can. And by the way, you can do it all online in the Bay Area, at least, but you go fill out a form and I sent it in. And then I emailed the email on there and said, hey, here's a quick spreadsheet of how I came to this new value. And I just looked at the comps on January 1st. And the fun thing about our home is that it's almost 100 years old. It's been renovated a lot, but it's from like 1920 something, 1930 something. So you got to compare it to other homes that are that old. And it's like, you know, how do you value other homes, square feet? It was really nice to have an old home in this process. And I was actually surprised in California. I did this last year and I was about to appeal it again this year. And they emailed me and they said,

well, actually, we just did it for you. And we found that it was even lower this year than last year. Is that cool? Can we just use this new even lower number? And I was like, yeah, go ahead. So it was like the gift that keeps on giving. But there's companies out there, right? There's people that'll send you a letter. There's a company called own well or owns well.com. And they'll do all this for you, 100% of the work. And they'll just take, I think, 25% of whatever the savings is. Not the, like, so if they save you five grand on your property tax bill, they'll take 12.50. The same thing goes with points and miles, right? You can go and learn these. ins and outs of how to use your points in miles to book an incredible vacation, or there's

these award booking services where you might pay them 150 or 200 bucks a person, and they'll look at all your points in miles and you say, I want to go to Europe this summer, they'll put together the perfect itinerary that makes points that maybe if you'd redeemed them in the travel portal or cash them out for, you know, statement credit, you would have gotten, you know, $1,000. They make it worth $10,000 of travel, and they charged you, let's say, $400. So you need to decide how optimal do you want to be? Because if you don't, if time's the important resource, we'll give up 25% of the savings on your property tax. Give up $400 on booking your, you know, dream vacation and let someone else who's an expert in that area do it. So one, I don't think

it's as much work as people think, but it's also, you know, not really that hard to find someone else to do it. All right. We'll take a quick break. And then we'll be right back with Chris Hutchins from all the hacks. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people, actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your taxed refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance

tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code Pockes. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in Edle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all in one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code Pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off.

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I've been thinking a lot more about the practice. There's an incongruity that we're trying to attack here in Bigger Pockets money with respect to the fact that fire, a lot of people build this up as a number. I need $2.5 million. I can withdraw 4% or $100,000 a year to live on it. But your ability to fire has a lot more to do with how much you spend than how big the pile of money is right now. But let's take the paradigm with somebody is listening to this. He's like, nope, I'm going to hit the 4% rule plus.

How do I make that happen sooner and practically retire? There's something in your world that can help them do that, right? Because the big expenses are going to be your housing, your transportation, and your food expenses. And you've already alluded to hacks, if you will, that can bring those expenses down dramatically, right? One of the biggest expenses after your mortgage is going to be your tax bill. You just like go contest the tax, the assessed value at the courthouse or fell out the form, make that a thing. That's 25% savings. That's actually huge.

in the context of someone who's trying to finish the play there. You bring that number down? That's really important. Do you have one for insurance? I just want to go down the list here. So I put this one quote on, if you go to All The Hacks.com, the first quote is a review.

Someone left me on iTunes. It says, like, I saved $15,000 a year listening to episode, and now I'm going to forget the episode number. An episode I did on insurance. And basically, episode 104 saved me 15,8,850. $54 a year. So one hack, go listen to episode 104 of all the hacks because I had someone else save $15,000 a year doing that. Can you save us $1,000 in the next like three minutes and then we'll go listen to 104? No, no, no. Yeah. I'm not going to not, I'm not going to gate keep all the

information. But the short answer is a lot of people get an insurance at one point in their life, whether it's car, you know, home, whatever it is. And then they just assume that because it was the cheapest rate in, you know, 2014, that it's the cheapest most competitive rate forever. And I try to, and this is not perfect because there is not a great website to search all the insurance rates. In fact, most of the websites that claim to search all the different insurance companies don't search all of them. So three minutes, I'm going to say no. Maybe block off 45 minutes and go to the 10 major kind of insurance companies. Go to Progressive, State Farm, GEICO, USAA, if you're eligible.

you know, I'm going to miss some, so I'm not going to try to go through all of them. Amica, I can't remember how to pronounce it. There's a handful of these insurance companies, and some might be better rates if you're an AARP member, a AAA member, a Costco member, that kind of thing, and go price them all out. And I found, I was at State Farm for a long time, and I had this, like, legacy, you've been a customer for 10-year discount. And then I went to USAA, and I was like, let's just price it out. And I was like, I'm going to save 30%.

And like, I'd never been a customer of USA. So that legacy discount, these bundling discounts, like, it feels good to get a discount. But know that many of those discounts come at the expense of, like, I'm just going to charge you more and give you a discount. Perfect. So just shop it out. Do you think that you should, that, that, do you think there's credibility to that bundling discount? Or do you think you should price out every insurance policy across all of the, like, I've got home, I've got auto, I've got an umbrella, I've got a landlord policy. I should go and shop every single one of those separately,

or should I get the bundle discounts? How do I efficiently conduct that shopping process there? Yeah, so when I ran this, I shopped the bundles altogether, and they usually give you the price, like the separate prices. And yes, depending on the carrier, sometimes they only discount one. So I think at USAA, they don't discount auto,

but if you have auto, they discount your home. And so you can kind of like, I just made a quick spreadsheet that was like, the different policies I have and the like carriers I shopped at and what are the prices and just kind of ran through that pretty quickly. And it was pretty compelling. Uh, you know, I would say going through that process. Uh, and so we ended up at USAA. There was a window where I think that if I kept one policy at, you know, state farm, three at USAA and one somewhere else, I was like going to save 20 more dollars every six months. And I was like, that's just not worth it. Like, I'd rather

have all my policies in one simple place. Um, for 20 bucks, but to save 30%, I'll move around. You know, I kind of, I want to read some reviews. Like, I would say go, you know, get the consumer reports or go to your local library and, like, get access to consumer reports if you don't want to pay for it and see which carriers are actually good because you don't want to have a cheap policy that's going to be a headache if you have an issue. The other big one with insurance, for your car, if you don't drive 10 to 12,000 miles, a year, which I know many of us in this post-pandemic world don't because maybe we're working

from homes, you know, five to, you know, one days a week, you can go and tell your insurance company, I don't drive 12,000 miles, and they will drop the price, like significantly. And so we don't drive that much. So our two policies are rated for like 4,000 miles a year. And every year, unfortunately, the insurance company needs to have you report your odometer so that they can know that that's real. So you have to redo it every year. But, But every year I get a new price for auto insurance and it's gone up like 30%. And then I call in and say, hey, here's my new odometer. And they say, great, we'll redrop it 30%.

And so if you're not driving as many miles as, you know, your insurance is, then you're just giving away money. This is perfect, right? This is what I'm talking about. But like, this is real tangible stuff. You can reduce that expense. Like, you just gave us 25% savings on your tax bill and 25% to 30% savings on your insurance on there, which is very real dollars.

and that is an activity that you can conduct every year easily after financial independence here. Now, Chris, how do I cut 25, 30% out of my utilities? That's a tough one. I don't know about, like, I would say you could go get like a sense monitor and figure out if you're overusing on a lot of things. And there are a lot of like little half a percent gains here and there that I've been reading about when it comes to utilities where it's like, oh, have you washed your stuff on cold water.

And if you turn your water heater down like a little notch and, you know, I think, have you stacked all of those things? You know, if you want to pay your utilities by credit card, a lot of utility companies you can pay through PayPal's bill pay feature and they won't charge the fee that a lot of utility companies charge for paying with a credit card. Like, they're a little subtle ways to hack your utilities. You go get solar, right? Like, you could like you could go, go make a big investment that might pay off over 20 or 30 years. You know, you could bundle up and not turn on your heat, you know, like, but I don't think that that's going to be an area where you can have a huge impact without sacrificing a lot of quality of life.

And so I haven't found one there. So I don't have a good one. Okay, I got, I got two more questions because you already covered transportation to a large degree with the insurance put discussion here and then travel rewards that you touched on briefly. And that's an area that we've covered before and folks need to go look into. And you're one of the best resources around through that. The next category is food. You kind of touched on on that one. Do you have any more tips besides getting 20 free meals from other meal providers to keep that as expenses really low. I mean, look at where you spend money, right? If you, if you're cooking and you're doing groceries, like look into meal prep, you could save a lot of money just not, you know, on a whim buying,

ran, you know, a bunch of groceries for one night. You could prep meals out for the week and probably save a little there. If you're going out to eat a lot, I mean, I come back to gift cards in a somewhat ridiculous way, but, you know, let's take, you know, cheesecake fact. California Pizza Kitchen. Like, if you go to places like that, those gift cards are pretty regularly, like, 20 to 30% off. And so if you're going out to eat or you're ordering from DoorDash, we already talked about that. Go to Costco. $200 DoorDash, $160. You order from Instacart. $200, Instacart, $160. You order from Uber Eats, $200 or Uber Eats, $160. Like, you could cut 20% off your, you know, delivery budget by buying gift cards for whatever place you deliver from. going out to eat is tough, right? Like, there aren't that many restaurants that have such crazy deals, but there are some. There's this restaurant app called Inkind where you can basically like pre-buy credits and use them. And depending on where you live, there might be restaurants you go to all the time and there might be nothing. But there were some promotions on Costco where it's like

$60 for $100 of credit that you could use at local restaurants that were not necessarily, you know, like chain restaurants because not, you know, some people are like, I love a cheesecake factory. people are like, I want a little local restaurant. That's the best I've got there. Eating is a place where I've just decided to not try to optimize it too much because I enjoy going out to eat. I like good food. And just because I can't find a way to save at my favorite restaurant, it doesn't mean I'm not going to go there. But I don't know, like if you have a built card, if anyone's renting, you know, and you have the built card and you're earning points on your rent, they do rent day where normally it's three X points on dining, but on the first of

the month, it's six X points on dining, go to your local restaurant and buy a gift card that you at a restaurant you love on the first of the month. And now you're going to get six points, even if you dine on the second or the fifth or the 10th. So they're like little subtle ways to really knock that out of the park. I don't know, six X points on dining is pretty good. Yeah. And all this adds up, right? Like we have the taxes, we have the insurance. We, uh, someone else will have to invent the next hack or you have to get them on the show about utilities for that X piece. But the food, All this stuff, I mean, you could cut literally 20% out of your current budget if you're working and busy or having put the mental energy into all of these savings in that post career phase.

That makes the number way easier to achieve. If you spend $80,000 a year and you're looking at the Forex rule and you need $2 million and you can cut that down to $60,000 a year, now you need $1.5 million. Like, you just saved yourself the need to save half a million dollars. That's my point. powerful what you're talking about here is and the issue is I think a lot of people are like, oh, that's too much, that's, that's much work, it's too much, well, that's something you will have easy time for. That's not, this is only a few hours a week that may be overwhelming right now while you're in the throes of the career or whatever around there, but this is something that in a

world, future state where you retire is super accessible for you to do if, if it's not accessible right now, even while you're busy, but what you're saying, these are not huge, intensive things that are going to disrupt your life. These are easy tactics that you can deploy with a little bit of planning to save big. So the last one I want to ask, then I'm going to shut up is healthcare. Have you solved that one with a hack here? And if you're not an employee, you're not getting that through your employer. How can we gain that system, hack that system, whatever it is that you want to. So this is going to be an experiment next year because I came up with what I think is the hack and I'm going to try it. And if you buy your health insurance on the experience,

exchange, which is unfortunate because a lot of the exchanges don't have as great of a plan as you'll get at an employer. But it's expensive. Like, I didn't realize how expensive health insurance is until we both quit our jobs and we're like, oh, now we're going to buy it. And in California, for a family of four, if you want the top policy, like the platinum PPO in California, we're going to pay about $3,900 a month. A month. Wow. Yeah. So like a massive line item. Is that an HSA compatible plan? No, no, no, that's like no HSA. Okay. So an equivalent plan that I'm still, I have like a couple months left on Cobra is like $2,300 a month. And I would actually argue that I would take the $2,300 month plan over the $3,900 a month exchange plan if they were all the same

price, not just from the price, but it's just a better plan. So the exchange plans are much more expensive for something that unfortunately, at least in my case, is not as good. Now, I looked at the other end of the spectrum, the bronze high deductible health plan, which was like 1,900 a month or something, like half the price. And I thought, wow, this plan, yes, it's HSA compatible. That's cool. But I think it had an out-of-pocket maximum, or sorry, a basically no insurance kicked in other than preventative care until you spent $14,000. And I thought, that's going to be tough. But I'm going to save $2,000 a month, this plan, which over the course of a year is $24,000. And once I spend $14,000 on medical care,

100% of everything is covered. So worst case, I have more than $14,000 of medical bills, and I save $10,000 on the year. Best case, we have like $3,000 of medical care for the year, and I saved something like, let's see, $2,000, I saved $21,000. Plus I get to put money in an HSA, which has benefits I'm sure you've covered. So the only thing that I don't like is now, if my daughter is sick, I need to decide, even though I'm going to save $24,000 a year just in premiums, like going into it, I'm going to save $24,000 a year. If my daughter's sick, I need to decide, do I want to take her to the doctor and pay $300

to see a doctor? And I think it will be psychologically hard for me to say, look, I know. I've already, like in just one month, I've set aside an extra $2,000 of savings. Am I going to be able to take her to the doctor, which anyone with kids listening or even without kids, 50% of the time I go to the doctor, I'm like, well, that was a complete waste of time. Like the doctor's like, ah, you're sick. Like, get some rest, drinks of water, like hot fluids, get sleep.

So I think it's going to make care tough, but there are also tricks for that. There's an app called Summer Health and Blueberry Pediatrics, which are like subscription services that include free consultative care for children. So it's like, I think it's like $10 a month or something. And you can message them any time and they'll, you know, send a prescription. So if your kid's coughing, you can do a video call, they can hear them coughing, send a prescription to the pharmacy and you're paying $20 a month. So I think I'm going to probably pair some of those things with this.

we're trying out like kind of direct primary care where you pay a couple thousand dollars a year but all of your primary care visits are free that this practice doesn't take children so it's like we're going to combine these like 10-20 a month pediatric care on demand direct primary care for more like hundreds of dollars a month for adults will probably spend three thousand dollars a year on those but we'll save $20,000 a year on getting the expensive plan so I think the biggest hack is that dollar for dollar, psychology aside, the cheapest, quote unquote, worst plan is the financially best plan, even if you have the means. The only downside is you're going to pay for the first $14,000. And psychologically, that might be really tough. Yeah. Well, and you said you're,

you're saving $14,000 by, or you're spending $14,000. No, you would have already spent that $14,000 just spread out over the premiums. Yes. Yeah, I know that. I know it here. That's the hard part. So I can tell you, I have a high deductible plan. I have the concierge service for my husband and I. I don't have the on-demand for the pediatrics because my kids are much older.

They're almost adults. And the concierge service is awesome. It's so easy. The hassle factor is what I'm trying to remove from my life. So yes, I'm saving money over traditional insurance premiums anyway, but I'm also getting rid of the hassle of going to the primary care and they've got, you know, 86 million patients that you're trying to all get in there at the same time. So do I want to take my kid and pay $300 because I think she's, I know she's sick and I'm not sure what it is? No. But also,

it's a lot easier to pay that $300 and then be like, you weren't sick or, you know, you just have a cold. That's what I told you. And then that goes a really long way with my kids. Yeah. And by the way, healthcare is negotiable, right? Like, I did this great episode almost two years ago. I think it was episode 34 on health care bills. And people were like, oh, I owed $10,000 and I negotiated it and brought it down in half. So like, you can fight medical bills. And when you're paying out of pocket with these high deductible plans, you say, oh, what's the cash rate? And they're like, oh, you're paying out of cash? It's no longer $800. It's only $400. And like, they have to go through a lot a hassle to get money back from your insurance company. And so I think that you can negotiate a lot of

these things. If you have outstanding medical debt, it can be negotiated. Go look into it. Listen to that episode. I don't know. I think if you stack all this stuff up, you could probably save 20 to 30% on your life. And the impact that will have is amazing. And like you said, Scott, like each category, like my goal is to do an episode on every category if I haven't already and like walk you through each one. and so I don't know, go search the archive. I've probably done it. The way I think about it, right? You can tell I'm asking the questions here is like, okay, what's the biggest expense in life? It's housing. Okay, great. Like for most, like the average American, you go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, where they're spending. Okay, housing's first. Then it's transportation, then it's food, then it's health insurance. Then it's, there's a bunch of other categories there. Those are by far the biggest four. And those comprise about like 60% of household spending right there. So everything else is this minority here around it. And I'm like, okay, how can you reduce all of those expenses as low as possible to live lifestyle you want. And that's the biggest hack, if you will, to retiring early, right? If you can get those expenses low, it reduces the balance needed to retire at the 4% rule dramatically by hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of

dollars as you can get those numbers down. And you've got about come all here. Health care is the big one though. I mean, even with what your hack there, you're out 24,000 a year in premiums on it. you know, that's, that's, what, $700,000 in an asset, in an asset base needed just to cover that first expense at the 4% rule. I mean, that's an enormous, enormous, enormous problem that somebody needs to go and figure out, like, in a really comprehensive way. Like, okay, how, what is all of the components of what you just said there to game out here? We've also heard from some ones that I think fewer people will be comfortable with, but are valid. One is if you travel internationally for a year, like there's ways to get health insurance really cheaply on an international basis.

And the second is these health share ministries, right, where you can sign up and be part of a group that's not really an insurance, even though they use a lot of similar sounding language for that. But those are not very popular for various reasons. Yes, I've heard a lot about the health share and people seem to, people either have an amazing experience or like a horrendous. It's like a five-star, one-star kind of. thing. It's like, this is great. I pay a lot less money. I get great care. And then there's the

occasional, like, I had this catastrophic thing. And they said for some reason it wasn't covered. And now I don't have insurance. And I don't know. It's just a little bit. Or like my lifestyle, I did this thing, but I was drinking. And like, because it's somewhat religiously affiliated, like, you know, they're not going to cover this thing. Yeah. There's a whole bunch, you know, and then you get the people that are in the health share ministries reaching out to you with nice comments, explaining why you're wrong on those things. you mentioned. So there's a whole thing there. It's not for a lot of folks. It is certainly, we've covered it in previous Bigger Pockets Money episodes, but it's certainly not a popular option

among fire folks right now. It's not very common. We forgot one thing, though, for people who haven't fired yet, I'm going to assume you have a job. And I think one of the lowest hanging fruits in terms of increasing your net savings, meaning either money in minus money out, go to your boss and say, hey, what would you need to see for me for me to get a raise or a promotion? Don't say, just give it to me. Like, no one wants someone to come and say, can you just give me more money? Like, I've had, I've had employees do that to me in the past. So like, hey, I'd like to have more money. And I was like, great, me too. But say, what would you need to see me demonstrate for you to level me up, increase my salary, move me up in my comp band? And then just go do it. And then come back and say,

hey, I did that thing you told me I needed to do. And so, you know, it depends on your salary and your spending. But if you're making, you know, a six-figure salary and you can increase that by 10, 15% or some, you know, meaningful amount by getting a serious promotion, that's going to have a similarly huge impact on your savings for however much longer you're working. And so, and can be as simple as, hey, what do I need to do three months of doing the same thing I'm already doing. Sometimes it's like companies just aren't always thinking, how do we reward the people that are doing great? Sometimes you have to put that in your own hands. And so I wouldn't be afraid to

think of that as another option. I love it when folks come with that because then you can say, well, I need this number to move from X to Y. And if that number moves from X to Y, I'm so happy to give out more money on that front. So like that's, yeah, I wish more people would do that all over the place from both sides. I'm sure you loved it when people came to you with that. You're like, yeah, well, the way I could make my division look great. With this, yeah. Okay, Chris, one last question before we let you go. On the first episode that we recorded with you, episode 355, you gave your history of hacks and

hacking concert tickets for free in high school, selling pizza by the slice in college so that you could get free pizza. You've always been looking to hack your system, which is awesome for people like me who are not looking to hack their system. Has there ever been anything that you were not able to hack? that you hacked, but it wasn't worth the time. I mean, right now, we're in holiday season, and I have not found a great way to make it easy to just, like, be healthy.

Like, you just have to put in the time and energy to work out. There's no hack. Like, come to my house while I'm sleeping and, like, give me some magical pill and work me out while I would, like, I had, there's nothing. Like, if you want, like, what is all of this for, right? We're trying to save money so we can retire, so we can enjoy our lives. Like, if we don't have our health and, like, you know, we. we die earlier, we can't run, we can't move. Like, it's kind of not a good life worth living.

And I don't think there's a great hack for how do you live longer? Like, it takes eating healthier. How do you get free high yoga classes? I'm sure there's gift cards for some chain of hot yoga glasses. You just got to go find him. But, but I actually speaking of that, Barry's boot camp, someone told me they pre-buy all their Barry's boot camp for the year on Black Friday or something. So, like, there are ways. But I have not found anything. Like, it just takes, you know, discipline. and not eating that 13th holiday cookie that you want. Like, there's not a trick other than some mindset stuff. So I always tell myself, I'll get another one in five minutes.

And like, that way I'm not saying, I'm not depriving myself of cooking number five. I'm just, I'm going to give my, I'm going to give it to myself in five minutes. And then I get distracted and I don't necessarily want it. So there's some subtle mindset shifts. But I think when it comes to health, it's like even if you hire the nice concierge doctor, it's not like they're giving you a magic pill, right? You still have to work out. you still have to do strength training.

You'd still have, like, you have to do all these things that are not nearly as fun as, like, binge watching Netflix and, like, eating ice cream. But, you know, if we're going to do all this work to try to build up our wealth so that we can have the freedom to live the life we want, like, we want to be physically capable of living that life for as long as possible. And I don't, I don't know a lot of hacks to make that easy. Chris, this was a super awesome fun show, like always, because you just have so many great hacks that I am not thinking of. I will never think of. And I just, I love the idea that I am going to

go out and save a lot of money on certain aspects of my, like the insurance. I actually did save some money on my insurance. And in Colorado, our insurance property taxes are being reassessed on the odd year. So next year, we get a big reassessment again. And you can bet that I am going to go and fight that. And thank you so much for the tip there. All of this is just so much fun to talk to you about and I really appreciate your time today. Thanks so much for coming on today, Chris. Always learn a lot every time we talk to you. Really appreciate it. And your energy is unmatched to your enthusiasm for all these hacks. Just never ends, it seems like. So thank you for bringing the fire every single time to everything you do and every time you come here on Bigger Pockets

Money. Thanks for having me. I love it. All right. That was Chris Hutchins from all the hacks and that was just another fantastic bit of fun. Mindy, I learned a lot and there's something there. If we just kind of go through each of these categories and don't just think about like the basics of fundamentals, but also I think how do we layer in some hacks? I think there's a lot on the table that could be explored here for a lot of folks in the Bigger Pockets Money community. There's lots of ways I bet you to reduce rent, to reduce electricity bills, to reduce your property taxes, to reduce your property insurance. There's a ton, probably almost in every single category of expense that can save 10 to 25% if you're creative and actually put the time and energy.

into it. And that's a project that I want to undertake with you over the next year or two and learn from Chris on these. There's a way to do this in a way that can really change up the speed to approaching retirement here. Yes. And I want to make a note to anybody who is, you know, in my position and feeling a little bit overwhelmed by all the stuff that Chris threw at you. Chris threw a lot at you. We only have him for a short time. And he has, I don't know, another 700,000 hours worth of ideas in his head. So you don't have to do all of these. You can focus on one or one aspect of one that he shared and start small. Every dollar you save is a dollar that's not going out of your pocket. Maybe start with the insurance and just, oh, my insurance is up soon. I'm going to take some time

and I'm going to call all of these different companies and find out how much it's going to cost at each one of these places. Now, I had insurance with a company who shall not be named and I did that exact same thing, I got more coverage on my auto, more coverage on my homeowners, and added an umbrella policy for less than what I was paying for the lower coverage on my car, the lower coverage on my house, and no umbrella policy. That's real giant savings. I mean, it's only like $100 less than what I was paying, but I've got so much more coverage. And, you know, the only time you need insurance is when you need it. You know, you can't predict when you're going to get into a car accident. I better up my coverage because I'm about to get hit.

That's not going to happen. So you have it. You have the peace of mind that you have the insurance. And now I'm paying less and getting way more coverage. So he's absolutely right. Your insurance company is not going to reward your loyalty. So don't reward them with yours. Go and find a company that works.

Now, I will recommend that you stay with one of the bigger agencies. Bob's insurance company is probably not going to be there for you should something really catastrophic happen. Or maybe they will. I don't know. But go with a bigger name because that's just giving you more security than some little no-name company that you've never heard of. But yeah, all of these ideas might work for you. A couple of them might work for you or you might not like any of those, in which case, go listen to his show because he's got a hundred million more ideas too. So he's just a wealth of information. And I love having him on the show. But I do want to I do want to caveat that you don't have to do them all.

Maybe they don't all apply to you or maybe you're just not interested. Like I'm not interested in buying gold. So, you know, Scott, if you want to buy gold, come over to Costco with me. I'll let you buy some gold for me. Yeah, I think I'm out on that. You know, I don't want to have, you know, $25,000 worth of gold in my house. You know, right now if you rob my house, the most valuable thing is probably a suit that's 20 years old on there.

Like, that's it, you know. So there's nothing there's nothing there for, I'm sure. from a robbery perspective, I don't want to have like that. That's one of the fears that I have with our approach like that. I get it. You only have it for a few days. But some of those are for other folks to take advantage of and get that spread. I'm going to, I would rather do some things digitally, I think.

Right. But even if that specific item isn't for you, here's the idea that you could buy low and sell high or buy and sell at a slight loss. But because you've got all these different things going on, you're actually coming out of So I love the idea. I could look at that and say, oh, I bought it for this and I can sell it for less than. No, I'm out without even thinking about the other things. So that's what Chris is here for to give us all these different ideas to think about. Absolutely love having him here.

He's always so much fun. So Scott, should we say thank you to Chris and get out of here? Let's do it. All right. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is the Scott Tredge. And I am Mindy Jensen saying got a bolt, cult.