BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 223: How ‘The Rich Immigrant’ Went from $10/Hour to Wealthy Globetrotter

Episode Date: August 16, 2021

Dee Olateru doesn’t have the traditional FI story, but it didn’t take her long to catch onto the concepts that now allow her to live a life exactly how she sees fit. Dee immigrated to the United States from Nigeria when she was sixteen. Without the ability to get student loans, Dee had to work throughout school, apply for every scholarship available, and borrow money from friends and family to pay for her undergrad degree. While she made it out of college without student debt, she still had some credit card debt that needed taking care of. She amassed $10,000+ in credit card debt to help her pay for necessities like groceries throughout her years in college. But now she had a business degree, so clearly, she went on to get a full-time job in her field, right? Actually, she didn’t. Dee graduated during the great recession and had to take a $10/hour job at a local factory.  Dee says that many people don’t believe her about the factory job because of the high-level position she’s in now, but it taught her many valuable lessons. As Dee made more and more money, she started looking into finance blogs to see where she should be saving and investing. For the better part of a decade, Dee has been maxing out her Roth IRA, 401(k), and investing in individual accounts, all while she travels around the world! In This Episode We Cover Having a “debt payoff plan” so you know exactly how and when you can get rid of debt Joining online communities as a “close circle” for financial debates and idea-sharing  Maxing out your Roth, 401(k), and other retirement accounts as early as possible Never falling into FOMO and only investing in assets you understand  Seeing your financial journey as a way to “start with what you have”, not what you wish you had And So Much More! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, show number 223, where we interview D. Oletaru from the rich immigrant and hear her journey with money. And I think people see me today and don't believe that part of my story, but I think it's such a rich part of my story. And I think we think about money and financial independence. And I say, don't be afraid to start small. I mean, start where you are with what you have. And that makes such a big difference.

Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me, as always, is my graduate. of the fine institution of Vanderbilt University, co-host Scott Trench. That opens a whole bunch of doors to Vanderbilt puns there. That's 14 people. You'll really need to get that, you'll really need to get that. Vanderbilt's mascot in order to get there.

Yeah. That's all the Vanderbilt fans out there. Yeah, fortunately, everybody who works a bigger pocket went to Vandy. Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else. To introduce you to every money story because we truly believe that financial freedom is attainable for absolutely everyone,

no matter where or when you're starting. That's right. Whether you want to retire early and rarely travel the world, going to make big-time investments in assets like real estate or start your own business, will help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams.

Today we talk to D. Olateru from the rich immigrant about her journey, with money. D graduated from college in 2008, which is, you know, not the best time to ever graduate, took a job outside of her field of study and then went on to get her degree in her master's degree. She has since traveled the world and just enjoys a super rich life while investing, making mistakes and recovering from those mistakes to continue on her journey. She's probably going to retire within the next 10 years or so, but the opportunities open to her are so vast simply because she is conscious of her money.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot, like her story, you know, she was an immigrant, but there's nothing unrepeatable about Dee's story other than hard work, discipline, basic, values around money. And look, she's going to retire in the next seven to ten years. And she's already hit 56 countries around the world as a tourist and someone traveling there. And I think that that's really cool and something's very special. And I think, you know, there's a lot to just learn from the simple approach that she takes to managing her wealth and the new towards fire. Yes. And really, the simple path to wealth has not only has that played a big part in her journey, but it's also her journey is a simple path to wealth.

And she's got so many things opening up for her. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact.

Because the goal isn't just to look backward. It's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch's subscription with the code pockets.

What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in a needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool. that makes money management simple. Use the code Pockets at monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at monarch.com code pockets. I love that, said no one ever.

Nobody starts a business thinking, you know what would make this more fun? Calculating quarterly estimated taxes. But somehow, every small business owner ends up doing it. Your dreams of creating, selling, and growing get replaced by late nights chasing receipts, juggling invoices, and wondering if that bad sushi lunch with Scott counts as a write-off.

Change all that with Found. Found is a business banking platform built to take the pain out managing money. It automatically tracks expenses, organizes invoices, and even preps you for tax season without you doing the heavy lifting. You can set aside money for business goals, control spending with virtual cards, and find tax write-offs you didn't even know exist it. It saves time, money, and probably a few years of life expectancy. Sound has over 30,000 five-star reviews from owners who say, sound makes everything easier, expenses, income, profits, taxes, invoices even. So reclaim your time and your sanity. Open a found account for free at found.com. That's

F-O-U-N-D-com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank, member FDIC. Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business owners who have streamlined their finances with Found. Audible has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade. I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone,

and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Liener Stronger for Fitness, The Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being. What makes Audible so powerful as its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more. All accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at Audible.

dot com slash BP money. Dee Olateru from the rich immigrant. Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. I love your story. Where does your journey with money begin?

I'll say it starts in two parts, right? So the first part, I would say like anybody, it's influenced by my family, where I was raised, and I was raised in Lagos, Nigeria. And while my parents never told me anything specifically about money, I observed what they did. You know, my dad was the first person I ever saw, had a big notebook where he tracked his expenses. My mom, not so much.

She didn't track anything. And that was all well and good, but then I observed my mom be just a very generous person. And then I came to America at the age of 16, and I had no idea what I was getting into. And I went through college, had credit cards, still didn't know what I was getting into financially. And then I graduated and I did not have a job. And then it hit me, you know, because Adalton will hit you, you know, like a ton of breaks.

And I was like, wait, what's going on? I have debts. I don't have a job. I have good grades. What happens? That's when I really started to dig in and start to learn about, you know, paying off debt, credit cards and all of that. And so that triggered my financial awareness. So what was your position at graduation? Did you have student loan debt? What was the situation there? Yeah. Did you get a job? Okay.

So I couldn't have student loan debt because I wasn't an American. So I didn't qualify for student loans. I would have loved to have student loans. And so really paying for college was my parents saving, sometimes borrowing money in Nigeria, my sister, donating, me working through college, applying for every scholarship under the sun. But even with that, I still had credit card debt because sometimes, or like I could only pay for food with a credit card. And so I had about, you know, 12,000 in debt at the time I finished

undergrad. I would still go on to get more debt. But at the time I graduate, I had $10,000 in debt. I had my last semester tuition to pay off, and I needed to pay that myself. And so I took a job in a factory. That's what I did to start to, you know, find my own financial path. What did you, what did you study in college and where did you go? Yeah, I went to a smaller school in Minnesota called Winona State University, and I studied accounting and business administration. Okay, and what's the factory? And how, you said, you didn't have a job after graduation. How long did it? Yeah, after graduation, did you take this job? Yeah, so within a month, I mean, because I was like, I have bills to pay and I'm not one to. And I think, you know, I think many immigrants are in this position. I'm going to do what I need to do, to do, you know, to pay my bills. And so I had a boyfriend at the time who, who. knew someone that ran this light fixtures factory. And I said, can I get a job for $10 an hour? And they said,

yes. And so I took my summa cum laude degree. And I went to a factory floor. And I worked for $10 an hour. And I did overtime. And I made light fixtures. And I made my first budget. All right. And so what, what happened? Go ahead, Medea. I was going to say, I love that. I have a degree in accounting and business administration, but I can't find a job. So I'm going to go out and get this job that isn't glamorous. It isn't, like, I bet in a factory, you worked a whole lot harder physically than you do now in your cushy accounting job, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had strong arms. I mean, you know, I developed strong arms working in a factory. And I think people see me today and don't believe that part of my story. But I think it's such a rich part of my story.

And I think we think about money and financial independence. And I say, don't be afraid to start small. I mean, start where you are with what you have. And that makes such a big difference. Yes. Okay, sorry, I'm jumping in here. Okay, so you're working at the Life Fixure Factory. You're not making very much money, but you're taking overtime.

Where are you living? Yes, so I kept living as a college. I stayed in my college town. And so I was renting a room with roommates. So that also kept cost low. And I also made a promise that I would not, you know, put things on my credit card if I didn't have to. And so, you know, I made my first budget on a pen and paper and I made a plan to start paying off the debt bit by bit. But I was living with roommates at the time and renting a room.

So how long does this continue for? Yeah. So this goes on for about a year. And in that time, I'm coming up with plan B, right? Because that's what you do? I said, okay, what's the next step? How can I position myself, right? Because sometimes you have the skills, which is what I had.

I have the skills. I had the good grades, but I wasn't positioned to get a job in my degree that would sponsor me for a work visa, and that's what I needed. And so I said it also in the evenings, I'm studying for my GMAX to apply to grad school. And so that's what I did. And so it took a year to continue working at the factory. That factory job allowed me to go home to Nigeria for my sister's wedding. I could pay for my ticket. And I had a whole year working in a factory. And then I applied to grad school. And then I went back to grad school to get a master's degree. Now, were you able to pay off any of the debt during that year?

Yes, I paid down some of that credit card debt during that year, right? And I also paid for my applications to grad school. I was able to go home from my sister's wedding, but I did not pay off all of my debt in that time, just because $10 an hour, there's only so much you can do. And I always want to give space for people knowing that, you know, it's okay. If you can pay $10,000 in one month, that's great. But if you can pay what you can and do the best you can where you are, I think that that makes a difference. So what was your day-to-day like during that year?

Yeah, it would be, you know, I needed to be at work at 7 a.m., right? So I was working 7 to 5, and sometimes, you know, if there's more overtime, I would work more. So I'd go to work at 7. And then in the evenings, I was studying for my GMAT, also writing essays and all of that to get into grad school. That was what that year was like. And I was also still applying to jobs. I will say, I mean, I tracked, I got more than 500 rejections in that year. So I was-

What year is this? This is, I graduated in May of 2007. And so it was May 2007 to June 2008. I went back to grad school in the summer of 2008. So you, that was, the market was really bad during this time. So I want to point out that that was unusual, but you just kept persevering and paying off debt and grinding and having what seems like 60, 70 hour weeks when you factor in your studying and your GMAT preparation in addition to the overtime, you're working at your job.

Yeah, when you put it that way, yeah, that's absolutely right. Yeah. Okay. So what happens at grad school? How did you pay for grad school? Did you continue to work through grad school? What are you studying in grad school? Yes. Okay. So grad school, I applied to, I did a, I mean, I had to be strategic, right? Because I'm on my own. My family's not supporting me for grad school. Undergrad, it was tough enough. So I applied to programs. I applied to the best accounting programs in the country in the U.S. right? And I also applied for scholarships. And thankfully, I got a full right to the University of Illinois 's Master's of Accounting Program. And of course, I mean, I always worked. I worked, you know, while I was on campus and all of that. So I always had a part-time job while I was on campus, but I got a full scholarship because of my grades and leadership in my undergrad time.

That's awesome. So you graduate with a degree, with a master's degree. Yes. in accounting. Yeah, in accounting and finance, yes. In how long is a master's? Two years? So this was a year. It was a year. So I also went for a shorter program.

So it was like the summer of 2008 and then the full fall and summer and spring. And then I graduated in May of 2009. Okay. So now we have some debt left over from the credit cards, but no new debt. No new debt. Well, then I got a job. I got a job. That's a good story.

You know, things start to turn around. I got a job at a professional service services firm, one of the big four accounting firms. And so I got a full-time job as an associate. And for that job, I would need a car. And so I had to take a car loan, right? And so that brought my debt back to about $23,000. Okay. And what area of the world are you living in with this job?

Minneapolis in the U.S. Okay. Yeah. Were you able to pay down debt while in grad school while work with the part-time job? Or was it? No, the part-time job was helping me with like, you know, my daily expenses and all that. So really my, the rate at which I could pay down my debt had to slow down while I was in grad school. But then once I got that full-time job, then I attacked my debt and paid it off in two years. Yeah. So how much debt do you have on graduating grad school?

Yeah. After grad school and getting the car loan, it was about 23,000. $10,000. Okay. And how much was the car incremental? So the car was maybe 10,000. So yeah, I had about 13,000 in debt and then 10,000. So about it was 23,000. So you purchased a very reasonable vehicle that you needed to have for your job. Yes. What I'm getting at from. Correct. It wasn't like a $25,000 car purchase. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, great. So what happens next now that you've got the job in the car and, and the new situation in Minneapolis. So I got a job.

I got the car. So I go back to my budget, right? This time my budgets have gone from being on paper to being in Excel, right? We're getting fancy here. And at that time, I made a get pay off blank. Yes. I made a plan to pay off my debt. And then, you know, at the time, I think I didn't mention at the beginning, you know,

you know, when I was in that factory and I saw my debts and I saw the bills that I had to pay and I first created my first budget, you know, no one in my world was talking about it, right? I didn't even tell my friends that I felt overwhelmed by everything I had going on. And so I ended up finding personal finance blogs. That's really where I found, I started to find a way. So I've done blogs from like, you know, however many years ago is why I saw how to budgets and I read about 401Ks. And so when I graduated and had my full-time job, I went back to what I'd learned,

you know, two years before and says, okay, put, you know, enough to get your match in your 401K. And that's how I got started and opened an IRA. I opened an IRA, I could only do $50 a month, but that's what I did. So I think those foundational, similarly simple things, people weren't talking about it in my world. And a lot of my friends are also immigrants. It's just not conversations we have. And I think that the lack of conversations around money is costing us, it's so expensive, right? The ignorance is expensive. It's costing us time. It's costing us generational wealth. It's costing us opportunities. It's

us in us the lives that we could live. And so when I caught that when I got my job, I at least started to do what I'd read about all those years ago. And that's how I started to, you know, I paid off my debt. You know, I started building my retirement portfolio. Yeah. And so when, when does this kind of change begin? Is it like right as you start the new job or how much time passes here? Yeah, right as I start the new job, I knew I wanted to pay off debt. because while my parents didn't tell me anything about financial education, you know, they also didn't live above their means and they didn't borrow, you know, money unnecessarily. So in my mind, I was always like, you know, didn't like debt.

I didn't like feeling like I owed something. And so I was personally motivated to pay off that debt. And I started putting money in my 401k right away because all those blogs told me to do it. And so I just did it. So here's a question. is clearly the 401K is available not just to U.S. citizens. It's available to anyone who has U.S. income

or anybody who has... Fault-time employment in the U.S. Yes. Okay. Well, I think that's important to note, is that... I don't know how to say this without sounding ignorant

because I am ignorant, so I don't know, but is that, like, well-known in the... in the immigrant... good community? I think, I think, you know, your company offers you the 401k, right? And so then, you know, you may or may not opt in, but it may sound like, you know, I think growing up, my parents always think on, okay, real estate, you know, because, you know, like the stock market in Nigeria

never really did well in my parents' time. So they trust the, they don't really trust the stock market, right? And so I think that, that mindset can sometimes, you know, permeate the immigrant community because it's like I'm throwing my money into something that I don't know about. And so I think just it would even help you people just had conversations to say, here's what the 401K is. Here's why you should at least contribute to get the match because you're walking away from free money. And also ground people in the history of the stock market to say, here's how the stock market has done over the last, you know, century, right? And this is why it's an okay place for you to put your money and for you to start your investing journey that way. When I think about like IRAs,

I think because that, I think that requires even more independent research. I think many people are just not aware about the IRA. People might hear about the 401K if their employers offer, but the IRAs and even like for entrepreneurs, like, you know, solo 401Ks and all that stuff, I find many of my friends don't even know about these vehicles. Yeah, and I don't think that that is exclusive to the immigrant community. I think in general, people just aren't aware.

The stock market is scary. And I don't know how to invest in stocks. I don't know anything about it. So I'm just not going to do it. Or they think about it. They say something to a friend who isn't very experienced. And they say, oh, I lost all my money in the stock market. I have a friend who's 60 years old.

And he got super burned. I don't know if he put his money in like the day. It crashed in 1987. He has never put any money in the stock market ever again. And I'm like, what are you doing? you're losing all this growth. But, you know, his experience is so terrifying to him that he won't put any more money in. And, you know, I don't think that's just the limited to people who didn't grow up here.

I think it's everybody. It's a scary thing. So where did you learn about 401Ks? Do you remember the name of the blog that taught you or like did you talk to your HR department? I think there's a lot of value in... in, you know, talking to your HR department. But again, like, they're not always the most knowledgeable. I can't remember the specific blogs.

I think there was one about, there was one reading by a girl that loved, like, shoes. And I loved shoes. So I liked reading her blog. And I was another guy, like, he was based in, he was like, punched debt in the face. Yes. There was one guy called Punch Dead. Punch Dead the face. Yes, way back when.

There was him. At some point, I watched a Sue's Orman show. I, yeah, you know, so I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think, you know, many times, you know, I, I, I don't necessarily follow, like, one financial group, but I think there are bits that we can pick from everybody. So it's like a buffet, you know, when you go to a buffet, you don't eat everything, but take what serves you and leave the rest, right? And so, yes, I started with, you know, those blogs, and I didn't really, I didn't talk to HR. And so, and then I got into a point where I was just kind of posting, right? I was doing, you know, whenever I would get a raise, I would put a, you know, 2%, I'll take my raise and increase my 401k contribution. But I realized that I wasn't really growing in my financial knowledge. So I feel like that can happen to where you get to a point where you've paid off your debt, you're coasting, but you're not putting your money to work for you as well as it should. And I think that happened to me.

Ooh. So what happened next? Well, the year was 2014 and I decided, you know, I've been increasing my 401K every year and I've now maxed out my IRA every year. But then, you know, maybe I should look into investing in the stock market and all that stuff. And so, first of all, rookie mistake, I thought you needed thousands of dollars to have a brokerage account. So I waited until I saved $5,000. And so I saved up that much. And then I said, okay, I'm going to open a brokerage account.

And so I opened it. And then I put $5,000 in there. And then I froze because, you know, I done the 401K, used Target date funds, and I was comfortable with that. But I didn't have the knowledge to decide what was I going to invest in, you know, index funds, all of that stuff. The other day, I found a spreadsheet because I'm analytical in nature where I was going through a couple of different mutual funds in 2014 and I never made a decision. So I froze and that $5,000 sat in that account until 2018, right?

It just sat there. I never invested it. Not invested at anything. It was like a bank account that paid zero percent. Yes. And so they actually closed the account for me. I went to the UK for work and I came back after two years. And then I decided I'm done with Ben, you know, just, you know, just passive about this.

And so, yeah, they had closed my account. They sent me a check for $5,000 and $3. And that's the money I'd made in those four years. And then I decided to, okay, start, you know, putting more money. I opened a brokerage with fidelity, start investing in stocks and index funds. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money

is going, and more importantly, where your taxed refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place.

So every decision actually moves the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all in one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch.com code pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need.

That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results.

And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Just go to Indeed.com slash bigger pockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. When you want more, start your business with Northwest Register agent and get access to thousands of free guides, tools, and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business all in one place. Build your complete business identity with Northwest today. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S.

with over 1,500 corporate guides, who are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business. They give you the free tools you need. after you form it, like operating agreements, meeting minutes, and thousands of how-to guides that explain the complicated ins and outs of running a business. And with Northwest, privacy is automatic. They never sell your data. And all services are handled in-house because privacy by default is their pledge to all customers. Visit Northwestregisteredagent.com slash money-free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest

registered agent at Northwest Registeredagent.com slash money-free. So you graduated from grad school in 2010. Right. 2009, 2009. Yeah. And so five years later, what's your position? You said we're in 2014 here and you decided to open the brokerage account. What's the rest of your position? You have a lot of large amount of IRAs.

Like what else is going on in your financials? Yeah, yeah. So at that time, you know, I had no debt. I had IRA that I've been maxing out, you know, since 2012 is when I started maxing out my Roth IRA. And then with my 401k, every time I got raised, I put most of that raise to, right to us increasing my my my my um four one k contribution so i think at that time i was putting 15 percent of my income in my 401k and max not my IRA okay great and do you have an emergency fund as well

yes yes yes so early on i i i think i started with about a six-month emergency fund yeah now today i'm at a three month just because i feel comfortable with that right yeah well great so so what happens from here? And what happens for 2014 and 2018? Do you continue investing or does any, you know, in the IRAs like that? Or do you do you do other types of investing? Yeah. So between 2014 and 2018. So yes, I continued, I had the $5,000 for the brokerage that I put in a brokerage and did nothing with. But I continue to do my Roth IRA and then my 401K. And then an opportunity came up for me to move abroad for work. And so I moved to Scotland, right? And when you're outside the U.S. you can't really do a 401k because you're not earning income in the U.S.

So there was a pause on that, but I still maxed up my IRA in that time. And then when I came back to the U.S., then I went, you know, I sped it up, right, in 2018 when I returned to the U.S. And what was your wealth position in 2018 and when you were returning from Scotland? Wealth as in how much did I have or? Yeah, yeah. What do you have at that point? I imagine you're continuing to bring in more than you spend.

How are you allocating that? Yes. So I think, yeah, and of course, I took a pay cut to go to the UK. That's another thing people don't expect. So coming back, making US dollars, I was very excited. And I came back in June 2018. But I will say, you know, the decisions I made in the years from 2009 to 2014 positioned me to be able to even take a pay cut to live abroad.

But then in coming back, I was going to go, you know, full on. So 2018, I came back. in half a year maxed out my 401k, maxed out my IRA, and every year since then, maxing out both vehicles. Awesome. Now, what is your position? How do things progress from 2018, I guess, from there? What's the, is, you know, what I'm hearing you say is like, oh, yeah, I paid off my dad.

I kind of moved these things forward with that, with this. But what was the goal? Like, have, the things change? Was there an inflection point moment? with this where you began like really grinding it out or how did that work for you? Yes. So I've always been a person that, and if you asked me, you know, even when I started my career, I always said, you know, I want to retire at the age of 50. I didn't know there was a term for it called fire. But I always wanted to design my life in a way that works for me, right?

And so now I know it's called fire. It was actually when I was abroad. I really looked more into the fire movement and understood what that was. But really the driver is me deciding, well, you know, if I want to retire early, what do I need? to do now to position myself for the future, right? I think that for me was the inflection when he's saying, okay, here's the life that I know I want to live. What decisions do I need to make now so that my future self will be proud of me? And when is that decision point reached? I would say 2018 on my return is when I made a decision to start actively putting things in place to make that happen. And so, yes, I always said I wanted to retire at the age of 15. Now I would say

45, right? So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's come closer. And I'm one that enjoys working. I enjoy what I do. I want to contribute to my community. And so for me, it's not that I'm running away from something. It's just being able to have control about what I do with my time and to be work optional. That's the goal to be able to spend the time with the people that matter the most, be able to have the resources and not, not have money be a deciding factor. I think, and that freedom for me, that that's important. Okay. So what happens? What's your position when you return? What's kind of your net worth around there? And how does that accelerate in the years following 2018? Yeah. I don't know that I have my exact net worth in network from like 2018.

But I know that from then on to now in maxing out those vehicles, I would say my net worth has, I think I hit six figures in my 401k when I saw that I hit that when I came back. And it's more than doubled, you know, since then, right? And, you know, I have that brokerage account where now every month I'm putting money. into index funds and every couple of months, you know, I'm buying some, you know, individual stocks, right? And so, you know, I think, you know, looking at my fire calculator, you know, I'm on track to retiring in, you know, in the next nine years, right? If I continue to do things that I, that I'm doing now, and knowing that at that point, you know, I don't know what my work situation will look like, but I'll have the option to do that. The option. I love that. I'll have the option, not the obligation to retire, but I will have the option to retire if I choose. It sounds like you enjoy your job.

Yeah, I enjoy, yeah, I enjoy all the things that I do, my full-time work, but also the other things that I do. Yeah. So I love that. I just, I love that. Sorry. What are some of those other things you do? Well, I have a podcast called The Rich Immigrant, and that was my response to the pandemic where

a lot of people around me were losing jobs and I felt like, man, we don't talk about money enough. And so the pandemic was what pushed me to start talking about money. I always talk about it like with my friends in a safe space because I don't want to be that person that's like obsessed with money. But I think money is a tool and we should, you know, I want to help people use that tool to work for them. And so I have a podcast and a blog called The Rich Immigrant where I talk about that from the perspective of an immigrant.

But I also talk about just living in whatever countries you've chosen to call home. I've lived on four continents now. So I talk about those experiences. I also have a travel blog. I've been to 56 countries. So I help, you know, people, show people how to travel the world, but also do well in their careers. So I enjoy those things. So I try to spend the time doing that as well.

How do you balance travel with work? Because that's 56 countries, you, you, seems like you're traveling frequently. Yeah, I mean, I mean, when I went to the UK for work, right? And so I lived in Scotland for almost three years. And in that time, I was in Europe. I traveled for work as well. But also, I mean, I tell everybody when I was living in Europe, I was either working or I was traveling. Not much, not a lot of sleeping.

So my friends and I just, again, it's, I want to live fully, right? So and when I, when I say, talk about the fire, but when I first heard about it, it seemed like, oh, my gosh, you live in a box, get ramen and you don't enjoy your life. And I want to do both. I am adamant about living fully. So I just try to take advantage of whatever it is in front of me. Of course, I have a budget. I stick to it.

But yes, I do all these other things. And overall, I think they help me live a full life. Well, I love it. What do you think is the biggest issue facing people today with regards to where you are and where they aren't and how they can get to where you are? I think a lot of us can be just intimidated, right, by what's ahead. Like I did, like I was, I think I told you, I froze when I thought about investing, right? It seems like this whole, this black box that nobody understands or that is only for certain people.

And I think for me, I think that's a big, you know, that's a big deterrent for many people, right? You know, immigrants or not, it's just not understanding something. So I think just that awareness and that education. But I also think there's maybe there's a bit of shame around admitting that you don't know what you don't know because I think a lot of people, you know, I think the phone, 2020 was the year of like FOMO investing if I ever saw one and people were jumping right into things that they don't understand. So I think, I think that can be a big deterrent. It's just not understanding things and jumping into it. But the other thing is just awareness, awareness. Like my sister and I have so

many conversations and we talk about, man, if we knew better. So I think education is also a big deterrent for people. That FOMO investing in this last year has really been hard to watch. The Bitcoin people who have come out and they're not investing because they believe in it. They're investing because everybody else is investing in it. And of course, that makes the price go up. But then something happens and all of a sudden it drops like a rock and people who didn't know what they were doing are now left holding the bag or losing large sums of money. Yeah. And it's heartbreaking to see this happen. Or the, you know, the, what was the, was the game stop? This game stop, yeah. Like drove it up and maybe the, the movie theater. Yeah, AMC. Yeah. And if you can get in, watch it rise and get out, that's great. But how many people did that? How many people, you know,

took the money and ran. And as opposed to investing money that they don't have borrow. The people, were talking about borrowing money to invest in, you know, all these name stocks. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what happens, you still have to pay your loan even though your GameStop stock went to zero or whatever it's at now. I don't know.

Yeah. So I get the whole, you know, and then there's people who are watching those people do it wrong and losing money and hearing that story, just like my friend that never put any more money back in the stock market. And they're like, well, I'm just not going to do it anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I really like J.L. Collins, the simple path to wealth.

Yes. That book is a great place to start if you don't know what you're doing. It's a simple path to wealth. And it can seem boring. And it can seem boring, but boring is good. You don't want to be up all night looking at your investments because you don't understand what's going on. So I think when it comes to investing, boring is good.

Boring is the best. One percent. Very boring, but you've been to 56 countries and don't sleep much. And we'll be retired in nine years. I will be, yes. Yeah, the best investments are boring investments. And if you want these, you know, exciting investments, put one percent of your net worth. Absolutely.

Into the exciting, sexy ones. I have, I think I have zero percent of my net worth and exciting. sexy stocks and everything else is in boring stuff. And that's the best, the boring company. That's a Tesla reference. I don't know. Elon Musk reference. I think we're ready to go to the famous four. All right. Let's do it. Okay. Dee, it is now that part of the story where we get to the famous four questions. Does the same four questions we ask of all of our guests? Number one, what is your favorite finance book? I have a couple, right? I'll share a couple. And you mentioned one called a simple path to wealth because I think that's just a great place to start.

I also like, I will teach you to be rich, right? And then another one that I like is Bola Shokunbi's book, right? It's a newer book. I wish you wrote it, you know, 10 years ago, grow your money, right? On investing and I just felt relatable to me. I felt like it was written with me, the millennial investor in mind. Yeah, Bola's a really great author. Yeah, yeah, she is. Yeah, I haven't checked that out, but I'll have to go and pick up a copy. What was your biggest money mistake? Oh, I shared one of those. I guess the 2014 putting money in freezing.

That was one, right? And then the second one, though, was not knowing to getting to the real estate market during the last recession, right? And again, it was that nobody in my circle was talking about it. I was just focused on paying off my debt and putting money in that 401K, but I could have bought a starter home at the time.

But I guess, you know, you live, you learn, and you move forward. I'm going to correct you and say that that time was a very scary time. I have been investing in real estate since the late 90s, and I did not get into more rental properties during that time. It was a very scary time. So I'm going to say, no, that wasn't a biggest money mistake. Okay.

Okay. I'll take that. I mean, that was, it was the people who were able to. be visionary and see in the future and, oh, this is great. Good for them. I'm glad they were able to generate a lot of wealth by doing that. But it was an incredibly scary time. Okay. Thank you for that. You're welcome. I think it's, I'll observe as well that you're, both of those are opportunity cost mistakes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that tells me you really feel like you've handled the money, your money to the best to your ability for the most part over the years,

which I think is awesome. Yeah, for the best. But I think there were times where I didn't. I mean, from the years that I came to America until I graduated, I mean, I used my credit card for things that sometimes I shouldn't have, but I didn't know. And, you know, in that case, you know, you live, you learn, you move forward. You graduated with only $12,000 in credit card debts.

That's pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Dee, what is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out? Oh, I have a couple of pieces, right? So I'll share a couple of pieces of advice. I always say this, start where you are with what you have, right? A second thing is, you know, don't invest in things you don't understand.

There's so much information available today. You know, their podcasts, their blogs, their Instagram. So just commit to learning a bit more today than you knew yesterday. And it makes such a big difference, right? And the other thing is, you know, change your circle, right? If, you know, look at what you're following on social media. Curate your feed to be what feeds you, right? So if you don't have a safe space in your world, because I didn't feel like I could talk about money with my friends.

If you don't have a stay at the time, now I do all the time, right? Don't feel like you have a safe space in your world or in your circle where you can ask questions or where you wouldn't feel stupid not knowing certain things. There are communities online that will be willing to welcome you with open arms. Please find your community, right? And go ahead and start your journey. And don't be intimidated by the, you know, people paying off a million dollars in two days. That happens. and that's wonderful, but they're also people that make slow progress every day,

and you can be a part of that. Oh, love it. That's like this whole community of financial independence retire early, of which bigger pockets and bigger pockets money is a small part. Like, that's the whole point is to do exactly the five things you just described there. Love it. That's awesome. We're on the same page.

Yeah. What is your favorite joke to tell at parties? So I'm not one to tell jokes, but I always have a travel story. So that's what I'll usually tell a travel story or two. And the one that's common, it's the time I had to pay $400 for an apple in New Zealand. And the story is that, you know, I bought the apple in another country, right? And I brought it back into New Zealand and they're very big on don't bring fruits and vegetables. And I totally forgot that I didn't eat the apple.

The apple was actually imported to the other country from New Zealand. And so I went through security and they called me out. Sure enough, found the apple. and they find me $400 New Zealand dollars for an apple. I mean, you know, I like to think I'm one that can, you know, kind of just, you know, handle these things. But one little tear drop because I would have cried too. And that's the biggest money mistake.

Man, it still hurts every time I think about it. But yes, that's one of the stories I share. I heard you right to your core. Oh, man. Oh, that was awful, Scott. They wouldn't just let you eat it right then? You know, oh, I said she was going to throw it away. I said, no, bring my apple.

I'm going to eat this thing right in front of you. You're going to throw it out. Yeah, if you're going to throw it out, then don't find me $400. If you're going to find me $400, I'm going to eat that apple. Yeah, so I sat there, I ate it, cried, and yeah. Oh. Yeah. That's one of the travel stories I share.

They're happy ones, but that was very much. one that kind of ties in with the money topic. Yeah. And we were able to get a good old BP money pun in as well. Yeah, there we go. Dee, where can people find out more about you? Yes, you can find me on the Rich Immigrant Podcast. It's on everywhere you listen to podcast.

I talk about money. I talk about living abroad and thriving wherever you call home. It's also on Instagram or the richimmigrant.com. But if you're more about my travel life and my career, I'm at well-worn heels. Well-worn heels. Well-wornheels.com or well-worn heels on Instagram? Both. Oh.

Okay. Well, we will link to all of this in our show notes, which can be found at biggerpockets.com slash Money Show 223. Dee, I am so glad you were able to come and chat with us today. I just love your story. Thank you so much for having it. This is a fun conversation, you know? Yeah, this is great.

Thank you. Well, thank you. Okay. And we will talk to you soon. All right. Okay, Scott, that was D from the rich immigrant. What did you think of her story? I thought it was great.

I think it was like we mentioned earlier, a pretty simple but effective path to building wealth. And again, just kind of reflects on a certain set of values that she has with money that allow her to become wealthy while living what seems to be like an awesome lifestyle, traveling the world, seeing out all the sites, and becoming wealthy at the same time. Scott, I really am excited for what she's doing.

I love that she took it upon herself early on to be curious about money, to continue searching. She started reading finance blogs. Oh, what does this mean? What does this mean? She went down all these rabbit holes to self-educate so that she could put herself in this amazing financial position.

And, yeah, she made some mistakes. the 2014 to 2018, $5,000 sitting there doing, while gaining three cents at the end of the four years, is better than spending that $5,000 on frivolous things. But now she has, she's learned. She's taken steps and she's educated herself a little bit more. She knows what she wants to do. She's investing now. And that's sometimes you have to take a four-year freeze in order to really be comfortable doing

all the things that she didn't fall into the FOMO trap of last year, which was so heartbreaking to watch. I just think she's doing a really great job of getting the money story out there, getting the money education component of it out there. Yeah, I agree. I think she's doing an awesome job and really fun episode today. Yep. Near the end of this show, she's mentioned that if you don't have a group of people to talk

to about money, you should find. a community. We have created a community for you. It's called the Facebook group of Bigger Pockets Money. You can find it at Facebook.com slash groups slash BP money. And we would love to have you join us there and ask the questions that you're not sure about. Ask for advice. Ask for what would you do in this situation. And you might get 57 responses that are all different. But you might start to see some serious trends and patterns where, everybody invest in index funds. Well, that's kind of done all the work for you. You just put your money in there and set it and forget it. Maybe you want to ask about a specific stock. I think

there's a lot of people who, you know, they want to invest in a stock, but they don't want to invest in the stock. They don't want to lose money. Nobody ever wants to lose money. So ask questions and see what our lovely, amazing listeners have for advice. Sometimes they'll also tag me in truly terrible jokes as well. Yes, so apologies in advance for all of the awful jokes in the group. But to come join us anyway and talk with fellow money nerds and frugal weirdos. Okay, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it. From episode 223 of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, he is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying, got to go, friend, this has to end. But we can continue the conversation on Facebook.