BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 294: Finance Friday: Stable Index Funds or Cash-Flow-Reliable Rentals?

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

Index funds and rental properties are at opposite ends of the investing spectrum. On one side, you have highly diversified, almost entirely passive index funds. On the other, you have cash-flowing, yet far more hands-on, rental properties. Both of these beloved types of investments belong in (almost) every investor's portfolio, but how much should you have of one or the other? Today’s guest Cecilia has built a strong net worth while keeping her income high and expenses low. She bought at the bottom of the market in Southern California, so while home prices rise all around her, she’s sitting comfortably with her rock-bottom mortgage payment. Thanks to all the housing expense-related savings, Cecilia has been able to dump a lot of her extra cash into the stock market. But, she’s longing for a more travel-focused life, where she can take sabbaticals in any corner of the world she chooses. Part of her plan to wealth-gaining greatness is buying a short-term rental in a city she loves, so she can still vacation on the cheap. In order to do this though, she may need to sell off some of her investments or swap her strategy entirely for cash-flowing rental properties in cheaper parts of the United States. Which path will set Cecilia on a fast track to FI? In This Episode We Cover How much to have in your safety reserves and what to do when you have too much cash Index funds vs. rental properties and when to focus on which asset  Long-term rentals vs. short-term rentals and the cash flow that comes from both Building the perfect investment plan that will coast you to the life you love Automating your business and spending less time on repeatable tasks  Whether or not early mortgage payoff is a good idea in low-interest times  And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Scott's Instagram Mindy's Twitter Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Subscribe to The “On The Market” YouTube Channel Listen to The “On The Market” Podcast: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, BiggerPockets  Check the full show notes here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-294 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast show number 294, Finance Friday edition, where we interview Cecilia and talk about designing a portfolio with the end in mind. I think that's exactly where I got stuck was I started thinking I wanted something, a turnkey rental, a lot la the rent-a-retirement model, which is I'm just going to give you some money, someone else's going to property manage it, one's going to send me a little check, and it's going to be not really that much money to give you, maybe give you 25, 40 grand the most. And then I was like, well, wait a second. Maybe I want this thing that you just described.

Maybe I want it to be in Palm Springs where I can Airbnb it and I can go and stay in it. But then that is a hundred grand in or 120 grand in. So then I was like, okay, am I doing the right thing? And then I froze. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me, as always, is my Everything is a Spectrum co-host, Scott Trench. Wow, Mindy, you really continue them to come up with these great new intros and adjectives for me.

Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else. To introduce you to every money story, because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. That's right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business or find financial flexibility. We'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards those dreams. Oh, I like that financial flexibility. I love Cecilia's story today because she truly does have financial flexibility. She has positioned herself so that she is generating enough income that adequately covers her expenses and a whole lot more. And she's doing, she's conscious about where her money goes without depriving herself. Does she seem like she's missing out on anything? No, she seems super

we're happy. She's doing great. I mean, she, she's winning. And let's be real, she, you know, one of the reasons why she's winning is because she has a very strong income and then control over her expenses, right? Especially low, the low housing payment from having bought a place in California 12 years ago and has that. So she's got, she's really got a wonderful situation living in a beautiful place with, that's very affordable and having plenty of income to cover that and continue to invest and save. So it was fun to kind of play with a very flexible position and think about how we can make it more flexible and give her even more options to get where she wants to go over the next five, 10 years.

Yep. I think she's got a lot of things to think about. We gave her some things to look into, like, does she really want to diversify her portfolio into real estate? And if she does, what type of real estate does she want to diversify into? So let's make our attorneys happy, Scott, the contents of this podcast are informational in nature and are not legal or tax advice, and neither Scott nor I nor be. bigger pockets is engaged in the provision of legal tax or any other advice. You should seek your own

advice from professional advisors, including lawyers and accountants regarding the legal tax and financial implications of any financial decision you contemplate. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact, because the goal isn't just to look backwards, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting,

accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in a needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at monarch.com code pockets.

I love Matt, said no one ever. Nobody starts a business thinking, you know what would make this more fun? Calculating quarterly estimated taxes. But somehow, every small business owner ends up doing it. Your dreams of creating, selling, and growing get replaced by late nights chasing receipts, juggling invoices, and wondering if that bad sushi lunch with Scott counts as a write-off. Change all that with Found. Found is a business banking platform

built to take the pain out of managing money. It automatically tracks expenses, organizes invoices, and even preps you for tax season without you doing the heavy lifting. You can set aside money for business goals, control spending with virtual cards, and find tax write-offs

you didn't even know existed. It saves time, money, and probably a few years of life expectancy. Found has over 30,000 five-star reviews from owners who say, Sound makes everything easier, expenses, income, profits, taxes, invoices even.

So reclaim your time and your sanity. Open a found account for free at found.com. That's f-o-u-und-d.com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank, member FDIC. Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business owners who have streamlined their finances with Found. Audible has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade.

I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger, Leener Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being. What makes Audible so powerful as its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals,

podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over 10 years. kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money. Cecilia is a 53-year-old divorced mom of two with a great start on her financial independence journey. She could be financially independent right now if she lived in a different country, but a couple of kids, a couple of jobs, keep her here. She's looking for some advice about where the right place is for her to put her money.

Should she keep paying down her mortgage, save for a rental property, buy a second home, etc.? Cecilia, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. Thank you, Mindy, Scott. So great to be here. I'm super excited to talk to you today because I think you have some fun challenges. You live in a high cost of living area known as Southern California, where everything costs more. And then some. And then some.

But in exchange for that higher dollar, you get sun all the time. It looks so beautiful behind you. There's actually sunny today. So good thing it wasn't the other day. Yes. Spoiled and that becomes an anchor of some kind. But I'm definitely privileged and blessed. Yeah. So of course, right off the bat, I can say you should move and I could cut all of your expenses right down to nothing if you would just move to the Midwest. Let's do that. There you go from episode 294. There you go. And we're done. And we're done. So, Let's look at your income and your expenses.

So what is coming in and where are you putting it? Okay. So I have two businesses and what I do is I draw from one of them. So my income, I pull $7,900 a month. So that's not taxed up, if that makes sense. It's just $7,900 from that business. And then from my second business over the course of the year, I tend to just skim kind of profits off of it at different timings throughout the year.

And that lands me an additional anywhere from 50 to maybe even 75K that I pull from that second business, depending on how that business did that year. Great. And another word we could use for that is distribute. Distribute. Of course, being illegal. Distributing a smarter herb for that. Yes.

I self-distribute at my own discretion. Yeah. Perfectly ordinary way to manage your business cash flow. That's great. Okay. So where does that $7,900 go? Okay. All right. So walk it through. My mortgage is about 1,600. H-O-A is 500. Gasoline, currently, is $240 a month. Utilities, 268, household, which is kind of a big bucket for me. But that's groceries. That's if we eat out. That's, you know, toilet paper, anything you get at Target, Amazon movies, that sort of thing is $1,400 a month. Insurance, health insurance, dental insurance is $8.28. House cleaner, sometimes I turned it on, sometimes.

I'll turn it off, but we'll put 120. My yoga studio gym is 122. I put 550 into my after-tax brokerage. Currently with a tutor, which will end in about six weeks, $200 a month. New car, new car payment. So this one's hurting, plus my car insurance is $600 a month. And then savings, I put $500 just in my like kind of short-term savings. And that's if I, if I charge too much on my visa that month.

or something came up for the kids, or if I don't touch it, it pays for my life insurance every quarter, and then my kid's car insurance comes in, like, once a year. And then right now I'm paying an extra thousand dollars on my mortgage. Awesome. So you're doing a great amount of saving just from your W-2 income. And then on top of that, we have $50 to $75,000 after tax that we're able to distribute from your business. Yeah. When you say it, and I hear that, it definitely sounds like a lot, but I can tell you when I first went out on my own, when I left my official W-2 job, so I started this business in 2016, I was not spending like this. There was no house cleaner, no yoga, no gym, no extra mortgage, no money saved,

you name it. We went really bare bones. And as the two businesses have picked up, so I haven't been with these kinds of numbers for more than maybe two to three years. Okay, well, let's look at these numbers because your mortgage, payment is $1,500 a month in Southern California. That's amazing. I know. But then you look at your HOA is $500. And my first thought was, well, move. But your mortgage payment is $1,500 a month. So all in, you're at $2,000 a month. That's still in Southern California, that's like winning the lottery.

Yeah, it's insane. For a three-bedroom place, it's insane. So I just bought it the right time. It's a condo. But yeah, I bought in 2000. 11. So they were just kind of starting to rise. So yeah, I'm very proud of it. Anybody asked me, I'll tell them in a heartbeat what my mortgage is. I love saying that's how much it is. So and because you're in Southern California, the $240 in gas is understandable. Health insurance at 828. I'm assuming that's for the whole family. Me and my ex-husband each take a kid. So that's for me and one kid. And yeah, it's just through the exchange and has gone up every year since I've been.

been out of my own. So I can expect that to continue. It's like 50 to 100 bucks a year it goes up. Yep. And it will expect that. Your car insurance is, did you say it's your car payment to $600? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So 150 of that is the new car insurance. And then 450 is the new car payment. And I've had that car now for five months. Okay. And then so with the total listed expenses, I see 7906. And the total actual expenses when we take out the after-tax brokerage savings and the savings for your kids and the $1,000 of extra mortgage payment. I get $5,800, which is killing it in Southern California. And then if you take out before we had this conversation, I'm like, oh, H-O-A, get rid of that, $600 for car insurance because I didn't know that was a car payment too. Get rid of that.

Health insurance, get rid of that. Like if you were living in another place that's much less expensive and you didn't have the expensive car because I thought that was just car insurance. Like, that's another $1,900 you can get rid of. So there's definitely room to improve, but also you're making a ton of money and your actual expenses are $7,900 in Southern California. I still think you're doing great. Her actual expenses are lower than that. Or $5,800.

Yeah, because you're, yeah, because the extra mortgage savings and. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The savings doesn't. It's. contributions. Yeah. It's an expense, but it's not an expense. It's an investment. And I draw from the business. Like when you, when you say my income is 7,900 a month, I draw according to this

budget plan. So if I suddenly said, I don't want to draw that much. I only want to draw $6,500. I would just cut all of those extra cushions that I have in there. What do you do with the income from the business that isn't going into your bank account? It's sitting there. So right now, my six-month emergency reserves are in the business checking account. It goes to my, obviously, expenses for the business. And then when I think it's like high enough, like, once I get to June or July and I feel like I know how the year is going, then I'm like, oh, I'll take five grand. Oh, like then I might start pulling it and I'll either pull it to fund my, I have like, I'm weird in how I save money. I have very specific buckets of,

savings accounts. And I have them mapped out for the next 10 years of where I want them to be. So I know, for instance, I have like a bridge, this, one of my after-tax brokerages is like bridge retirement. Like if I need to fund two years worth of living, I want that fund to be $175,000. For the next 10 years, I have to put $17,500 in it. And so when I start to pull money, I will fund each of those accounts according to like the map that I have for it. I'm a little weird like that, but I like seeing it in certain buckets. I like that approach. Okay, I have this goal and I have 10 years to get there.

So I would like to have this much money in there. If something happens, I can divert money away and then re-divert it when it's, you know, when the something is over. I like that idea a lot. And I would like to believe that my two businesses are on a trajectory to continue at least as well as they're doing, if not better. But also, I'm, I, in the back of my head go, I'm like, I'm the chipmunks saving the acorns. Like, okay, I just need to have all this, because if they don't do as well in four or five years, I just want to make sure I'm okay

with what I'm doing. Well, this is going to be fun because you clearly have optionality to cut back on spending. If you, you can do, you can take action across really all of the major levers of personal finance. You can spend less. You can earn more. You can, you can, you can, can really go all in and building your business or investing in your business, and you can change your investment allocation approach here. So that gives you a lot of options, which can be overwhelming, but also a lot of freedom. So always better to have more options than fewer. Where's that money being invested? That's a good question. So in the traditional IRA, most of it is in VTSAX. I do have that with some percentage, maybe 15 or 20 percent in bonds.

just because I feel like I should be, but I know how some people feel about bonds. Most everything, actually, that's, I keep all this money in Vanguard. So the SEP, the IRAs, the Roth, the aftertax, they're all in Vanguard. If you aggregated those, a lot of this is VTSAX. And just because everybody's read that book and I decided I wasn't smart enough. And I just, that's where I put it. But there are a few other things. There's some bond funds in there.

and there's some, like there's a little bit of VTI and maybe some other things I've kind of heard about and I put it in, but mostly it's in these index funds. How much is in retirement accounts and how much is outside of that from your investment portfolio? The traditional IRAs is a retirement account. The CEP is, so if I add that up, 188 plus 196 might be outside of retirement accounts. Great. And then that gives us like $680,000 inside of the retirement accounts? Yeah. I have other savings accounts that I'm not adding into that. So in the retirement accounts

is $587 plus $70. So that's $6.50, $6.55, something like that. And then the rest is in a non-retirement account. Savings, random savings accounts, after tax brokerages. $6.50 and $3.20. Yeah. Your business emergency fund, I'm interested in that because I think that is it just sitting in a cash account or a high yield savings account? Or is it? It's just in my business checking. Okay. And it's, yeah. So again, I don't know what the safe number is.

I have, I love to have at least three months in there. And then lately it's been getting to six months or seven months. And then by the end of the year, it tends to be a lot. But that's why I'm trying to get smarter about. Like, if I pull money off of it, I keep, I keep three to six months of my income pull in that account. First of all, it's at the smartest place to keep it. But where am I putting the rest of the money? Because otherwise, if I don't have a purpose for it, then Cecilia has a new patio.

She has, like, you know, then I'm starting to start. I'm buying things, and I don't want to be doing that every year. Awesome. Okay, so we've got our investments. We've got like 970,000 or so in these investments, and we've got three months emergency reserve, six months emergency reserve in the business account, some other cash sprinkled across a couple of other accounts.

And then the rest is in basically index funds or similar types of investments, bond investments, across both after-tax and retirement account portfolios. Correct. What about property? You have a home. Correct. Can you tell us about that and any other assets you have?

Yep. So I have a condo that I refinanced during COVID. That is a 20-year mortgage. So I'm maybe a year into that. Crazy property value in California right now. So what is that? I maybe 530 in value. So I owe 268 and the values at $7.9.

right now, which is insane. That's really my only asset. I may have this car, but the decision was I was supposed to pay this car off. I bought it, and then I said in March, you're going to pay it off. And I got to March, and I was like, well, maybe that money to pay the car off should be going somewhere else. And then that hence led me to this call with you all, which is what's the smartest thing to do with maybe, you know, $20,000 or $30,000?

Okay, great. So we have a net worth somewhere in the ballpark of $1.5 million. when we add in the house to this, give or take the car on that. Yeah. Great. And most, the majority of that net worth, 560 is in your home equity, and then another $500,000,000 is in retirement accounts with that. So at least two thirds, probably a little bit more, maybe 75%, is in retirement accounts or home equity.

Correct. Okay, great. And what are, what can you refresh us on your goals? What's the best way we can help you today? Well, the quandary that I'm stuck in is, there's these buckets of money that I have to do a few things with, pay down the mortgage, pay off the car, or should I be getting an investment property and be figuring out a different way to diversify how I'm investing? And when I started to go down that route, where I got stuck

was, am I going to buy a place that's, you know, in the Midwest or in the South, in Alabama or Ohio or Indiana, all these places people are buying rental properties, or should I be buying in a place that I might actually want to live someday or visit someday, maybe Palm Springs or somewhere in Colorado. Then I got stuck because when I start thinking of those secondary places that I might actually want to live or stay, those prices are entirely different than some of the just straight out rental income properties in other places. So a little bit of direction on where could some smart places for this money to go be. That was a sentence.

And then tax strategies, I'm just really curious. My oldest child just came off my taxes as a dependent this year, which was painful. And my mortgage interest really isn't that much. So I'm trying to figure out what are some ways I can have some tax strategy, tax savings, and that a rental property might be the answer. What, can you, can you give us a little bit more clarity on like your long-term goal? What, what, what's the outcome that you're trying to back into, you know, a few years down the road? A few years down the road.

So I envision myself in anywhere from, I don't know, four to six-ish years being able to be remote with both of my businesses. I do training and a huge majority of it is online. And so if I have great Wi-Fi, I can go live and work anywhere. And so I want to be able to take mini sabbaticals and go to either another country or another state and maybe Airbnb for a month or spend the summer in Spain. So that flexibility, I have the funds I could go do that now. But at some point, I want to make sure that my investments aren't all in the same exact thing and that perhaps rental property might get me some supplemental income that if my expenses, let's say they actually truly are $5,800, well, is there a way I could make that $3,800 and bringing in a little bit of money to just carve off of what that monthly expenses are.

Awesome. So I might try to simplify that for me in the terms of you want to have a more flexible financial position in the most flexible position you can reasonably get to in a four to six year period. Call five years. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, great. Let me just observe a couple of things that I've heard so far about your position and see what you think about those observations. Right now, you are, you are doing great from an income perspective. It sounds like this is relatively new in the last two years where the income has been this strong. And you also are very optimistic of the prospects of your businesses. You've got control over your expenses.

There's nothing crazy going on, but you have layered in a couple of luxuries because you're doing well. and you can clearly afford to with that and still maintain a very strong savings rate on just your income, and not to mention the skimming or distributions from your main business there. Yes. And then you haven't really, I think, made up your mind about what you want to do from an investment perspective, which is why you put some each month towards your Roth IRA and why you pay an extra thousand dollars to the mortgage each month and then sprinkle in other investments down the pipeline.

Is that, are those fair observations? Right. So definitely want to be smarter about where that money is going because I feel like I'm making it up. And then I also think you have, you're doing great with all of this, but I also think you're complicating some of the things around how you think about your cash position. I love that concept, but you have all these different buckets going in there. How much total cash do you have right now?

How are you defining cash? Like, is my after tax brokerage? considered cash? No, no. This is money that will be in your bank accounts, checkings or savings accounts, including your business account, in any household or savings accounts that you have there. Over 100,000. Okay, you have over 100, so, so I think, I think just saying that and acknowledging that is very freeing to a certain degree, right? There's, you know, you, I think there's like, I think it's just like,

okay, great, I've got $100,000 dollars in cash. I don't have to worry about like this bucket not being full or that bucket not being full. Like cash is cash. We're going to allocate it across different things here. And that should be plenty to cover your business, personal life emergencies, a big trip or two or five or ten. And, you know, a couple, any other incidentals that might come up and give you a lot of optionality around moving other things around.

So I would encourage you just at a highest level to consider reframing the cash question. And just thinking about your total cash position like that, keeping some in the business, some of the personal, and just say, by. My pile is plenty large right now. What do I want that pile to be at? And everything on top of that, I'm going to sweep out, right? And that'll help you with clarity for your business account, too. You can just say, great, I'm going to target 30 grand or 40 or whatever it is you want.

And whenever it's above that, I'm just going to sweep it and put it into these investments down the line. I think I would encourage you to get to a structure like that because it'll make all this decision making really easy for you. That is one of the things that I was going to suggest is a research opportunity. sit down and think how much money do I need in the business to feel like it's got a fully funded emergency fund? And how much do I need in my personal to feel that I am fully funded there? Because I think that you've got all of that available. I don't think you're going to have to save for your emergency funds. You may have to not skim off the top for a couple of months to make sure that they're totally capped off. But once you have a decision on, you know,

what you feel comfortable with, then you can look at what's on top of that. And that's, that's a really personal decision. If it's three months or six months of business expenses, great. That's your choice. And you can do that because you're the boss. And, you know, another thing to look at is how stable is your job and how predictable is the year. Does your emergency reserve kind of dip in January because nobody's hiring you until the end of March when it pops back up again and that's the same pattern over and over again, great. It's okay that your reserves go down in January because in March you're swimming in the cash, you can replenish it. Or is it more of I really do need to keep this in here because I never know what's going to happen.

And either answer is fine. It's just, you know, this is something that you're going to have to answer. You said that you're not sure if your investments are all. the same. And they kind of are because they're all in the stock market and they're all basically index funds. But that's not a bad thing. I mean, if you read that book, I'm assuming you're talking about the simple path to wealth by J.L. Collins, which is the one that preaches VTSAX. Jail Collins is a smart guy. He's done a lot of research. It's kind of a proven method of the simple path to wealth is investing in VTSAX. So that's not a bad choice. But if you want to diversify your holdings. Rental real estate is a really great way to diversify. Now, do you want to be a

landlord? Do you want to have a Midwest property empire that you are responsible for? Do you want to, you had mentioned traveling around and getting something that you can use? You can't use a property that you're renting out long term. But you can use an Airbnb property when you feel. like it. And when you don't feel like using it, you just stick it back up on Airbnb. And it rents really quickly. I mean, try to find one right now. It's really hard. I think that's exactly where I got stuck was I started thinking I wanted something, a turnkey rental, a lot la la the rent or retirement model, which is I'm just going to give you some money. Someone else is going to property manage it. I was going to send me a little check. And it's going to be not really

that much money to give you, maybe give you $25, $40,000 the most. And then I was like, well, well, wait a second. Maybe I want this thing that you just described. Maybe I want it to be in Palm Springs where I can Airbnb it and I can go and stay in it. But then that is a hundred grand in or 120 grand in. So then I was like, okay, am I doing the right thing? And then I froze. Well, let me ask us, if you had $1.5 million today, how would you invest it? You could have both. You could have your turnkey property and your rental real estate. Yeah. And just because you have currently, stock market investments doesn't mean that you can't transfer those into rental real estate

or diversify your portfolio by taking some of this and selling it and buying a rental property. Read the reviews on these turnkey properties and see if that's something that you really want. To hop on BiggerPockets.com and read about my worst landlording story. because sometimes it's enough to read that story and be like, nope, I'm good. I don't want to do that. And sometimes you can't be swayed. If you can be swayed by one story, then landlording is not for you. But if you are able to just keep going, like if you're still excited about it, grab a property.

And, you know, I do the research and all of that. Of course, we're not diving into all of those numbers right now. But, you know, when you get a property that works as a rental property, it generates cash. it's a really great investment. And when you get an Airbnb property, you can go and use it and check it out. And, oh, you know what? This isn't for me. I don't like this anymore. So I'll disagree slightly with this on the Airbnb side. Not in a big way. But my belief is that, you know, I like to vacation in Colorado ski towns and that kind of stuff. I feel that the odds of getting a great investment return in those areas are lower than the odds of getting

a great investment return in the area that I know best, which is Denver, or a market that I'm selecting for the maximum possible returns. And my philosophy is I'm going to go and put my money in a place where it's going to perform the best, and then I'm going to spend it in the areas that I want to go and be in with that. Because even if I have an Airbnb in, you know, you know, Beaver Creek or Avon out there. And, and I go and stay in it. I'm forfeiting the 2000 or whatever it would be for the week that I would be generating in revenue from that. So that's how I like to look at it is, is I'm going to go wherever I think the best long-term returns are going to be, and I'm going to spend it on my lifestyle whenever I want to go and

travel. And I worry that some of these places that, you know, that happen to be your favorite or my favorite place to go are very good at extracting money from people who did not live in those areas and own property or visit those areas, which is probably part of the reason why they're so fun to visit. Okay, that's a good point. And I will say that I have been speaking with an agent up in the mountains because, of course, I would love to have a rental property up in the mountains. And he's been saying, look, they don't cash flow right now.

You buy it, assuming that it's going to appreciate. but you're paying taxes, you're paying your mortgage. This is a investment that's costing you money every month. So there are secondary locations. If you don't, if you want to be, I don't even know where Palm Springs is. I know what's in California and that's it. But like, is it on the beach? I don't know.

If you want to be like San Diego on the beach, that's going to cost you a lot more than you're going to generate. But it's also going to appreciate faster. But inland might be still a nice place. or up in the mountains of California where it's not really a ski place, but it kind of is. Or, you know, I'm up in Colorado near Rocky Mountain National Park. You can get a decent property near-ish Rocky Mountain National Park that could be a great Airbnb property that could cash flow.

But it is that you're not going to get the ski people coming in. And it's not going to, maybe it's not rented every single weekend. So there's secondary markets that could be cool if that's where you want to be. But like Scott said, if it's not a place. that you want to visit, then maybe it's not really worth buying the Airbnb. Because it's a higher income, but it's a lot more expenses. And it's a lot more like, I don't want to say hassle, but hassle with the cleaners and, you know, people that don't leave on time and lots of things. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial

picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your taxed refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward. It's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch

subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch.com code pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites.

Indeed's sponsored jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you,

23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Just go to Indeed.com slash bigger pockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash bigger pockets.

Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. When you want more, start your business with Northwest Registered Agent and get access to thousands of free guides, tools, and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business all in one place. Build your complete business identity with Northwest Today. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years.

They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S. With over 1,500 corporate guides who are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business. They give you the free tools you need after you form it, like operating agreements, meeting minutes, and thousands of how-to guides that explain the complicated ins and outs of running a business.

And with Northwest, privacy is automatic. They never sell your data. And all services are handled in-house because privacy by default is their pledge to all customers. Visit Northwest Registeredagent.com slash money-free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registered Agent.com slash money-free. At Desjardin, our business is helping yours. We're here to support your business through every stage of growth, from your first pitch to your first acquisition. Whether it's improving cash flow or exploring investment banking solutions, with Desjardin business, it's all under one roof.

So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us, and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. Let me try a thought exercise here going back a second. So I asked, you know, $1.5 million, you know, what would you want to be? And I'll just take a stab at this personally and see, and see if you react, right? I'm in, I'm in your shoes. I just have $1.5 million in cash. How do I allocate it right now?

I have none of these accounts or whatever. And I'm on a as flexible as possible in 1.5 years from now, right? Well, I'm probably thinking I want to have, okay, I'm going to put a third of it to a half of it in real estate to some capacity. And I'm going to have a number of properties probably levered at 50-50 or something like that, 50-deat, 50-per-per-deat, 50-per-security, which is nice and conservative from a debt-financing perspective, but still allowing me to get some leverage on that. And that should generate a good amount of cash. Let's call it 600,000 in equity. So that's $1.2 million in property. Maybe I'm getting a 10% cash on cash or an 8% cash on cash return, which is $600,000.

40 to $50,000 a year. Maybe that's ambitious. Maybe it's 35, 40,000 from that, right? Then I'd probably have after-tax stocks, maybe two or 300,000 and stocks in retirement accounts, maybe two or 300,000 or 300,000 and a little bit of home equity in $150 to $100,000 in cash. Right. And from there, I'd be expanding each of those piles pretty, you know, that gives me 50, but my investments are half in stocks, half in equity, some of which are in retirement accounts,

some of which aren't. I've got a good conservative cash cushion and some home equity, since, you know, you have, you know, a lot of people like to own their homes with that. And so that would be, you know, what is your reaction to a portfolio like that? For me, I think deep down, I am anchored in stability. So I like the idea of there's multiple places that they are. And some of them I wouldn't have to think about and I can just leave a loan. So the money for me, that's in my IRA. It's like I'm not putting more. into that account, it's fine. If I do the rule of 72, I can see that that account in the next 10 to 20 years is fine and I'm fine. The other two, then I think I get into, if it's real estate,

is it, am I doing it for the money? Or am I doing it because I really want to be flexible, I want to travel and I want to be remote. So those are, those have two different avenues to them. And I think actually, if I hear myself say it out loud, it's, I want to be flexible. when I want to travel. So maybe it's the money that I would have put down on an Airbnb is my travel fund or is my build it up to buy that second place that I could rent if I wanted to, but it's not its primary purpose. Great. Let me ask you a question on that. When you say flexibility, you know, I think that real estate's a spectrum, right? So if I'm buying an air, if I'm buying and operating an Airbnb, that's a lot of work. You can buy and operate and then stabilize an Airbnb.

be so that you have a, you know, a system to manage it like Zeanna McIntyre does. You can also buy a turnkey property, you know, with a property manager, give them some money. And, you know, in this case, in the hypothetical situation I just articulated, give the, you know, buy 600,000 worth of real estate either in one location that's remote or multiple locations and have property management overseeing them, making that largely passive to some degree. or you can do anything kind of really in between there. Is that? Yeah.

Yeah, I like the second one probably. I mean, at the end of the day, do I want to be a property manager? No. I would rather write the check to someone and know it's taken care of. But maybe I just need to get clear on what's the end goal. So if you can think, hey, in five years, I want my portfolio to look like this. That's flexibility to me. Then you can back into that.

Yeah. your portfolio is not going to deliver that flexibility. And you have the ability to transform that easily over the next five years. But right now, if you keep doing what you're doing, where your money's going is every month you're putting $1,000 towards the mortgage, you're continuing to expand your cash position, and you don't really have a formal investment plan behind where that sweep is coming, which is the majority of your invested dollars each year, most likely. And if you can put that together and say, my ideal portfolio looks like this. In five years, it's two and a half, million or 2.25 or whatever it is that I'm going to target between appreciation of my current

assets and then the extra savings are going to generate and then just begin making that happen. You can think, great. And that $2.2 million portfolio, it should look like $800,000 in real estate equity, $800,000 in stocks, $150,000 in cash, $400,000 in my home equity, whatever that is. That's how you can begin backing into that. And flexibility means whatever it means to you. So that might be 100% in stocks that don't have to worry about at all and no real estate or it might be something like what I just articulated there. But right now, if you keep doing what you're doing, your portfolio is going to look like a million dollars in retirement accounts, $950,000 in your home equity, and $400,000 in cash in other stocks.

And I don't think that is going to get you the flexibility that you're looking for from that. So that's the change that I would encourage to some degrees is to begin allocating the dollars in a way that will get you, that will back you into that portfolio that, that says flexibility to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which I kind of thought I was doing, but it, it doesn't sound the same.

Like, I thought through where do I want to be in 10 years and what is each of these buckets, what I want each of these buckets to look like. So if I left that IRA alone and just let it do its thing for 10 years, well, we can assume that that's going to double. And then the SEP, if I imagined, based on how much I've put into it each year, what is 10 more years of contribution? But then when we get to the after tax brokerage, it's, was that earmarked for something? Should I be using that for real estate? Some of them don't really have a particular end in mind versus the number's just going to grow. And then, right? So it's just being more purposeful, I think, with the more flexible buckets. One of the tools that I have is, is I have a written

investment plan because as much as I talk about this stuff, I get shiny object object syndrome like anybody else and get excited about this, this, and the other thing. So the fact that I have a written plan that I'm able to review with my wife at our money date keeps it like, okay, great, we got extra cash. That is going here. That is going here. I'm on track to buy the next rental property this year with that. And so I think that will be really helpful as well. Because, and again, the biggest one I would, that stands out to me is the extra mortgage of $1,000 you know, you already have $560,000 in equity in your home, right? And in 10 years, you might have the mortgage down to $50,000.

That's great, right? But if your goal is to pay off the house, pay it off, right? And apply that cash that. That can be incredibly freeing. If it's not, don't pay it off and put it into the investment that you're intentionally picking with that. But right now, I just, I like this kind of like part way approach is saying to me that the flexibility is just not going to come from this financial position until, you know, that until 15, 17 years happen or however long it will take you to pay it off with a 20 year mortgage and the extra thousand there. So I'd either like, that's where your investment philosophy can help you make that decision.

You can be like, I'm going to either go all in and pay that off, which is an event, an event will happen at the end of that where everything is super flexible. or I'm going to put it in these other stocks and it's going to appreciate and I'm going to get a better, I might mathematically get a better return if the market does reasonably well, but I'm not going to have that event. And there's tradeoffs behind that. Yeah. You're echoing what swirls around in my head, which is like, why am I paying this mortgage? It sounds to be like I'm slated to pay off this mortgage in 10 years when I'm 63.

And it just sounded so beautiful to be 63 and not have a mortgage. And then I was like, oh my God, my interest rate is so low. Why am I putting that money there? Well, then I should just pay off this car. But what if I put this money towards the car? I'm not getting, I'm not getting like a monthly check. What if I took that same money about a rental property? And then I'm getting a monthly check that I could use to pay off the car.

Like, I just got caught in this mousetrap. I think if you write it out, you'll be able to go down a list. And I would, I would feel personally better about kind of going. it all in on like this year, I'm going to, like, next, I'm going to pay off the mortgage in two years because I want to pay it off. Or I'm not, I'm going to stop paying anything extra, and I'm going to put it all into the next rental property that I'm going to buy on with this place. And in, in, in, uh, 10 years, I'm going to still have a mortgage balance, but I'm going to have 600,000 in real estate equity because it's all going into down payments

in those, into my rental property portfolio equity. Yeah. This is all going into that. Or I'm going to put it into index funds. Or I'm going to invest in my business because, my business can grow. But like if you can, if you can pick those things and write them down, I just think that this like part way approach that you're taking right now is going to end up in a position where you're going to have, you know, 1.2 million in home equity. If things double, as you hope over the next 10 years, I'm sorry, 1.2 million in your stock portfolio, mostly in retirement accounts, if you continue doing what you're doing. And then another 900 or 950 in your home equity. And then not much else anywhere.

else. And again, that to me is, that's actually probably pretty flexible at that point. Very simple, paid off property, lots of stock equity and your business. But I don't know. Is that what you want? Nothing wrong with that outcome. So I'm going to play the what would I do if I was the Celia game now because Scott, Scott said what he was going to do. If I had $1.5 million, here you go, Mindy, here's $1.5 million. I would probably park it in VTSAX or my husband would be like, no, let's put some in Tesla and QQQ, Q, because that's his like favorite thing right now, VTI and, you know, but basically the stock market. It has done very well for us. Also, my husband does a lot of research on tech stocks. That is his thing. He's not buying automotive industry. He's not buying airlines. He's buying tech stocks because that's where he, just loves to research. So that's probably what we would do, but because I am the real estate

person that I am, I would make a list of the cities that I would consider Airbnb traveling to and make a list of the cities that I would consider owning real estate in outside of Southern California, places like Iowa because I always ride ragbri every year, or Ohio because my mom lives there or, you know, Minnesota because my cousin lives there. Or, you know, if you've got somebody local that you can trust, that's really valuable. And there are several cities in the Midwest that all have about the same returns, Indianapolis, all the ones in Ohio, Kansas City, Des Moines, Iowa. So if you know somebody there, that's a really great place to put on your list. If you don't know anybody there, maybe skip it because there's other cities that offer.

for similar returns. And then I would find an agent in each one of those cities that I had on my list and say, I would like you to set me up with a search. This is what I'm looking for. I may or may not be making a purchase. I just want you to put me into a list on the MLS. And I'm a real estate agent. This takes me maybe 10 minutes if I have to reset my password, which they always make

you do and I hate. It doesn't take a lot of time to set somebody up to get a list and all. automated list and, you know, give them a maximum price that you want to pay. Give them a minimum bed amount and, you know, minimum bathrooms, whatever, like very minimal search criteria and just see what's coming up. Oh, absolutely nothing comes up. Well, I guess that I'm not going to invest in this city. Or holy cow, 5,000 properties came up. I guess this is a really great city to dive a little bit deeper in or narrow my search. And until you can start to get an idea of what the market is in, for you, I would say A properties, a class, sorry, I was going to say A plus, A class properties

are what you want because you don't want the hassles. You don't want to deal with problems. You want to set it and forget it. It's going to be easiest to find a property manager to take care of your properties when you have an A class property. So make a list of cities that you want to go and get an Airbnb in, make a list of cities that you want to, that you know people in or would, you know, be interesting for you to own properties in and just start from there and see what is the market there. Maybe the market is so hot that you're like, I'm out. But maybe the market is reasonable. And, you know, California money coming into other states, you see these properties. You're like, really, That's all that it costs.

You're like, I'll write you a check. I'm in Colorado when I say the same thing. I forget if it was during the pandemic. It might have been 2019. I decided that at least every year, and I haven't made good since this first one, I was going to go and stay at an Airbnb in a city that I was curious about. So I started on that track. I went to Boise and I rented a place for a week.

I was like, what's the deal with Boise? Why is everyone from California moving to Boise? I got to check Boise. easy out. I think I'm probably priced out of it now, but I went and I looked and like, what is it about your? What is the downtown? Like, what is the outdoors like? Could I see myself staying here? So I like your advice of what else is on that list for me to go and explore and get a feel for and see what it's like. Another thing I want you to do is can you automate any part of your business? We were talking before we started and you do coaching is a good general

category for your business, right? Coaching? Probably more training, but training and coaching. Training. I'm sorry, training. And is there anything that you can automate? Can you sit down and make just a world-class video that helps take some time off your plate? Maybe your introduction video or, you know, week three of your training program is always going to be the exact same thing and it's not going to change. So you can sit down and automate what you're doing, even if it doesn't seem, automated when you're presenting it, you can automate yourself so that maybe you're at a place that doesn't have super amazing internet. But that doesn't matter because somebody that you have hired like a virtual assistant or an assistant that is now running the company while you're off traipsing

around all these Airbnbs that you want to test out can take care of the situation and pull you out of it. With your training, it sounds like you're doing it live all the time. And if you're doing it live, then you can't delegate that to somebody else. Yeah. No, that's a great idea. I do. I do have one online course. And I think that is the goal where it's done quite well during COVID. So the plan is what else can we create that is automatic, automated and enroll people in and it's not attached to my face and my time. So yes, more of that. Awesome. I think Mindy's suggestions were great there from the real estate perspective with that to test that out. And then you can just decide if you like, if you want that to be a part of your portfolio or not. You don't have to be sure about that

future state portfolio today. You should have to move towards working towards what you think that optimal thing looks like and then begin taking the steps to do it. Yeah, absolutely. I think I honestly, I think it's more about the places I might want to go and spend time in than it is Sicilia owns rental property and has a property manager and every once in a while someone sends me a check for 200 bucks. Like, well, I don't really know what that gets me. So being able to have a place where it's like, hey, and I could go, I could go to Boisor, I could go to Colorado or I could go to, you know, maybe a different part of California that I'd want to go to and spend a week a couple times a year. That sounds like it's more of interest to me. Test it out. Where exactly do you live in

Southern California? I live in Orange County. Okay. Is it like near, like what near one of the? It's halfway between L.A. and San Diego. Like San Clemente or Beach? Yeah. Yeah, I live about seven minutes from San Clemente. Awesome. So you live in one of the most beautiful places in the world. And, and, and your home or condo is probably also a great Airbnb. Well, yeah, you can't Airbnb in my community. I think it's 30 days or more. But that's, I feel like one of the challenges I have, which is, man, if I cash this place out, you know, I can retire tomorrow.

I go to go to whatever, Columbia or Panama City in Portugal and I'm done. But I think this property is going to be an amazing long-term rental. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a rental price. I at some point will spend a few months in San Clemente or one of those places just to like, I don't know if I want to live there long term, but it is one of the most beautiful places in the world. And so you've got to play maybe the short, the medium term rental where you have somebody rented out for a month is a great way to fund some of those Airbnb experiences as well while you're traveling and picking the locations that you do want to buy in. Yeah, yeah. So swapping time, getting someone to stay.

here for a month or three months while I go somewhere else for a month or three months. Yeah, that would that would help you because again, you have this enormous asset. It's a third of your financial position that is, is not being harnessed right now in pursuit of that flexibility. If it would, it will probably cost you, you know, less than $10,000, you'd think to reset or reframe or lock off a section or whatever it is of your house to make that an available opportunity. If you're really planning on doing lots more travel and flexibility.

Yeah, and sometimes I get tempted by that equity, too, to have that equity work for me. And like, gosh, could I borrow, fund, skim that equity and do something with it as well? Sure, you can. Although a home equity line of credit I like to say is a short-term solution, short-term funding solution. Scott likes to say that too. Yeah, well, that's where I was kind of talking about earlier. If I was kind of redesigned in a position from scratch, for me, I would be thinking six, you know, 600,000, 700,000 real estate, that amount again in stocks and bonds, one or $200,000 in home equity,

maybe $50,000 to $100,000 in cash rounding out and that stock position across both tax advantaged and after tax accounts there. And so that would be, you know, that would be like, again, one starting framework. You don't have to take that one to think about the position. And that would, you know, great, if I wanted to get there tomorrow with your position, I would cash out, refy the house, use that to buy. some rental properties there, generate that cash flow and go. That might be a really scary move because of the way that you've set your position are not appropriate for various reasons.

But that would be how that would be, that would be the position I'd be thinking about building towards if I was starting from scratch. It's the position I tried to build for myself when I got started. I like considering that definitely because when I think about paying the mortgage off or not, it contradicts me saying, I'm in the hottest rental market. I could rent this condo out so easily for so much money.

And then I'm like, why wouldn't I just get someone else to pay that mortgage down? Like, why am I paying it down? So if I refinanced it took money out, my mortgage, God forbid, went from $1,500 to what, $2,000? And then someone else down the line is paying that off for me. Then I'm like, okay, Cicely, what are you doing? Like, there's probably something smarter there. If I was going to be Cecilia, I wouldn't pay a dime towards that 2.6,2. $25% mortgage rate that you have.

I would pay a dime extra. I would keep it as is. I agree completely. Unless my goal was, I'm going to pay this thing off. And now my mortgage is zero. I'm just paying tax and insurance on that thing. And I'm going to use the asset as an Airbnb. It's not the most optimal way to drive return on equity necessarily, but it's very freeing

to have no mortgage. No wrong answer. And you're kind of part way in, part way out with the way you're handling your mortgage. I got to put in both thoughts. There's an decision there, and there's no wrong answer with that. There's this, you know, there's the math and there's the safety. And that's it. I think what I'm pretty good at is once I decide what I want to do, I do have discipline to hit towards it.

So me deciding, okay, this is the tenure plan. This is what you're doing. We funded it last year. We funded it the year before. Like, okay, so now I think once I work on crafting a written plan and putting it down, incorporating exactly what is my. goal, then I think it's easy for me to make a decision like that and stick with it. So it's the, you know, the vacillating when I'm when I'm stewing over things that gets me. But once I decide,

I think it's, it works. Awesome. Well, let's recap where we kind of, we've kind of talked about today. You have optionality across spending, across earning more income. I'm sure you're doing what you, what you can be to continue to advance the income from your business and your, your job. I think that you're crushing it. You've got a $1.5 million net worth, lots of good options and all that. And the biggest thing is getting more decisive and crystal clear about that future state portfolio that you want, which may take time, may take a few months and some iterations before you get to where you're feeling comfortable. But once you do that, then taking all of your surplus cash and moving very methodically down that list of priorities to get to your

desired future state. Yep. I think we have a couple of research opportunities to look into places to live and what your end goal is. I think that you also have kind of decided that maybe being a landlord isn't the top choice for you. So, tripes around and check out different Airbnb properties and see, you know, the cities that you like and see, you know, are there secondary cities that might make a good income and also be a place that you want to spend time? But I think you have a lot of good options ahead of you. And now it's just like which one of these amazing 50 options do I choose? Well, if they involve traipsine, I think I'm in.

There you go. I'll make that the headline. Thanks so much. Nothing wrong with that. I think the travel bug, you know, I think maybe as a parent when you see the kids ready to just take their wings and fly and then you're like, that's so freeing for them. And you're like, wait, it's so freeing for me. Where can mama go?

Exactly. Okay. Well, Cecilia, thank you so much for your time today. this was super fun and we will talk to you soon. All right. Thank you so much, Scott. Many appreciate it. Okay, Scott, that was super fun.

That was Cecilia and her super awesome position. And I think that we gave her a lot of wonderful things to think about the research opportunities into does she want to do real estate as a landlord or real estate as an Airbnb proprietor? Is that the right word? Does she want to truly diversify her portfolio or does she just want to traips around the world staying in Airbnb's as she Airbnb's her own place. Yeah, I think, you know, Cecilia has a strong, flexible position. She spends less than she earns. She has

optionality to flex up on the income front, flex down on the spending front, and transform her portfolio and think about how she wants to invest across various asset classes. And World's or Oyster. So she's got all the options in the world. I think she's going to do a really good, yeah, she has a bright future head of her. And I think she just needs to get really clear about what she wants, when she wants it, and what portfolio she's going to design to get there. Because right now, I think the portfolio, in spite of her great strategy, I think it's happening to her rather than she's actively shaping it the way that she wants with an end state focus in mind. Yeah, but it's got a pretty good end result so far. She's doing pretty good with that.

Absolutely. You know, Scott, sometimes when you have so many options, it can be a lot of little bit daunting. So I think we gave her a lot of great things to choose from today. A lot of things to think about, a lot of things to contemplate. I'm also excited, maybe we can have her back and talk about her business. I'm excited about the opportunities for her to remove herself from her business, generate even more income and then maybe not even worry about the Airbnb and the real estate. You know, I just thought of something. I think this would be a fun thing for the Facebook group. Let's start a thread. And I would like to, you guys heard mine, I would like to hear what your ideal $1.5 million portfolio would look like if you could just start

with a blank sheet of paper and allocate $1.5 million across various asset classes. What would you do with that? And I'd love to hear, I think that would be a good discussion and see what people think. Well, JT, I am going to actually remember to put this in the Facebook group. I'm going to make a calendar invite so I don't forget. So in the Facebook group, you will find a question. at the very top at Facebook.com slash groups slash BP money. What would your ideal $1.5 million portfolio look like? How would you allocate it into what asset classes? And if you're going to

talk about, oh, I'd put it into real estate. Tell us what location you're investing in real estate in and what type of real estate you are investing. Okay, Scott, I think that's a great question. Awesome. Well, I look forward to see what the responses there are. Yeah, that's going to be fun. Okay. Are you ready to get out of here? Let's do it. From episode 294 of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, he is Scott Trench, and I am Indy Jensen saying, catch you on the rebound hound.