BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 329: From Extreme Poverty to DIY Wealth and 2 Full-Time Incomes w/The She Wolfe of Wall Street

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

Wealth-building isn’t a pre-formulated path for most people. For those raised in poverty, the thought of financial stability seems like a far-out dream. Achieving financial independence or early retirement basically becomes an afterthought, or a fantasy only someone else could achieve. Without basic financial literacy and education, you could spend life aimlessly wandering without saving, investing, or thinking about a more promising financial future. But Amanda “She Wolfe of Wall Street” Wolfe did the opposite of that. Amanda was raised in extreme poverty, going long stretches of time without food, clean clothes, a shower, or school supplies. From a young age, she knew that most of her problems stemmed from a lack of money. The best way to solve that? Go to school, work hard, and make more money, so she could never feel poor again. But, when Amanda started bringing in a full-time income, her so-called “savings plan” went out the window. Set on not making the same mistakes as her parents, she revamped and reverse engineered her spending to match her savings and investing goals. She did this purely through DIY financial literacy and tenaciously asking questions. It paid off, and now she boasts a social media following of over 100,000, with two full-time incomes and a large reserve of retirement savings to boot! In This Episode We Cover Escaping childhood poverty through basic financial education DIY financial literacy by asking questions others are too intimidated to 401ks, Roth IRAs, HSAs, and other tax-advantaged investing accounts Tweaking your “money mindset” to place yourself on the path to building wealth Amanda’s biggest financial mistake that, once corrected, increased her income two-fold Building your emergency reserves and using them to catapult your investments And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Scott's Instagram Mindy's Twitter Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Subscribe to The “On The Market” YouTube Channel Listen to The “On The Market” Podcast: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, BiggerPockets Check Out Mindy’s 2022 Live Spending Tracker and Budget XY Planning Advisor Fidelity Investments She Wolf of Wall Street Website Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-329 Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our sponsor page! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast show number 329, where we interview Amanda Wolf, the She Wolf of Wall Street, and hear how she went from childhood poverty to adulthood wealth to conscientious money management. I didn't like the situation I was in and I was like, I don't want to live a life like this. It has to be different. So what life do I want to live? And I don't even know what else exists out there. And I would say like even into my adult life, there's things that I'm like constantly learning.

Like, oh, I didn't even know that was like an option, like whether it's like on. entrepreneurship or starting your own business. Wait, like regular people do that? Wait a minute. And I feel like my eyes are constantly being open. But at the time, it was just, no, I know I don't like that life. So I need to, like, copy the life of what other successful people are doing where I would enjoy a life like that.

You know, they get to go on vacations or, you know. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me, as always, is my analytical co-host, Scott Trench. You really do a number with these intros, Mindy. That was terrible. Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary. less just for somebody else to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting.

That's right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate or start your own business. We'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards those dreams. Scott, I'm so excited to talk to Amanda today. She has a story and a half. Holy cow. She could have very easily sat back and said, you know what? I grew up, I'm just going to be poor my whole life, but she didn't. Yeah, I think, I think you're going to be really impressed with Amanda and how much of a take charge person she is and how much responsibility she's taken for her life. She could, you know, a lot of folks that come from a situation like what she grew up with would have had a very different outcome with money and in many other parts of their life.

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Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at Audible, dot com slash BP money. Absolutely. She was so intentional. She recognized that she didn't necessarily know how to accomplish something. So instead of just saying, well, I don't know how to do this. I'm not going to. She sought it out.

She saw other people doing what she wanted to do and followed them, mimicked what they were doing. And I just love her tenacity. She is going to go really, really far because she just refuses to not be successful. Yeah, what a remarkable journey and just so excited to share it with everyone today. Amanda Wolf, the She Wolf of Wall Street. Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I am so excited to talk to you today.

I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Oh, I want to jump right into it because I cannot wait to tell your money story. Where does your journey with money begin? Oh, my gosh. Okay, we're going to have to like take it back a few years. I'm not going to say how many years, but we're not to take it back a few years. And, you know, I'll just like be transparent.

It's going to start off like a little guns hot. But it turns into a happy story. So for me, money is one of my first memories in my whole life. So I grew up very, very poor. My parents were addicted to hard drugs growing up. So I went without a lot of basic necessities, like food, clothing, and shelter. And, you know, growing up, I would have to, you know, I was bullied a lot. Like, I would wear the same clothes to school every day and not like shower for mums and would beg grocery stores

and gas stations for food. And I'm talking like very poor. So as you can imagine, kids made fun of me as kids too. And so, you know, at the time I like didn't totally realize what was different about my life versus theirs. I just knew something wasn't right. And when I would ask my mom for things like, well, can I get new clothes or can I get school supplies or like, why doesn't Santa come to our house?

It was always, well, it's because we don't have money for those things. And so my like five year old, six year old, seven year old brain, I was very little would be like, okay, well, I need to find a way to get money because, like, it seems like the kids who have money have houses and beds and, like, cool posters on their, like, walls and have birthday parties, you know, all the good stuff. And so I thought, okay, well, I just need to do really good in school because if I do a good job in school, then I'll get a good job. And if I have a good job, then I'll have money for those things when I'm older. So literally my, like, kindergarten brain, that was what it was, is I just need to do really good in school. And so that was always my goal is, like, I'm going to get all A's. I'm going to be top of the class. Like, I was going hard. And, you know, I do that all through elementary school. And it was not easy. I went to, oh, my gosh, how many?

Like, I think, like, 11 schools within three years. I mean, I hopped around a lot because we were moving all around. And so, but it was still like, I'm just going to jump, you know, dive right in and do the best I can at school. Were you moving around the country or in one area, one region? I actually, like, I lived in North Carolina up until I was like three. and then in Kentucky until third grade. And then Kentucky to Illinois, and that's when really the chaotic moving started.

My mom had me super young. She had me at age 16. So I think that like when she had me, you know, obviously like I don't remember back in those days. And I don't really have anybody to ask. But I think that she probably had a little bit of help probably from her parents at the time. And then, you know, got into her young 20s and had like this, you know, like elementary school kids.

So we were just moving all around. I think while she was trying to live her version of her best life, but yeah, we were moving around Illinois a lot. And so, yeah, moving all around. And then I get to high school and I finally get my own apartment. And I'm like, you know, grinding really hard, like working three jobs, trying to save as much money as I can for college because remember, like education was always the goal, like starting from kindergarten. So I get to high school. I'm, you know, trying to navigate the college application process and, you know, get accepted to the University of Illinois, which was like the most joyous day ever. And I graduate from college with, you know, $35,000 of student loans and some credit card debt and like a decent paying job. Like I didn't realize how much money I made until after my first year when I got my tax return. And I was like, wait, I made 77,000. $1,000, where did all of my money go? I have $35,000 of college loan still. Those haven't moved,

even though I've been making payments. I still have this credit card debt. Like, I mean, where's all my money going? And that's like when I realized like, okay, wait, I thought it was just going to get educated and I was going to have money. And like, it seems like that's not how that works. So I have to learn about this stuff. So that's kind of like, you know, the story of like what led me to like where I am now. But that's kind of like the progression of how it started early on. So going back to high school, were you paying rent on an apartment at this point in time? Yes. As of my, it was like towards the end of my junior year.

Yes, I had a roommate. I was paying rent. So you were putting up through high school and then college on top of that. What was your kind of workload like during this period of time? Oh, it was a lot. I worked at Pizza Hut. I worked at Shopko, which is like a like a Coles type of store. and then an antique store for a little while.

So, I mean, I was steak and shake. I mean, I was like working lots of different serving jobs, you know, just trying to like, because especially at that age, you could like usually only work so many hours at one place. It's not like one place would give me more hours. So it was me. It was a matter of just like surviving. Like, I know that I have to get to this next stage, but like I got to get through this first. Were you emancipated?

Yes. Okay. At what age did you emancipate yourself? It was technically until. 17. So I did live with some other family members after my mom starting like towards the end of like middle school. So I lived with a couple and then I moved and then I lived with a couple more and then just nothing was like overly stable. So that is when I moved out. And let's hear about college. How did how did what was that like? You're you're working full time through college in addition to being a

full-time student. Yeah, I mean close to full-time. It was like 35 hours a week. And so I will say like, yeah, college for me because I didn't have like nobody in my family went to college. So it was not a mat like, like I didn't know what to do. So I actually had just like a couple of friends who were like decently well off in high school. And I just literally copied whatever they did. So they were like, oh, I'm studying for the ACT. And I'm like, how are you doing that? Well, my dad got me like a tutor. Like, well, I don't have money for that. So I'm just going to go online and see like what kind of the tests they have. So I went to the school, like, public computer was like, what kind of practice test do they have for this ACT? I think I need to do pretty well on that for school. So I started

like doing what I could for that, saved up money for the TI 89 calculator that you needed for it. And then I just like would follow what they did. Like, oh, I'm going to go on a college visit. I did it. Can I go with you? She'd be like, yeah, sure. So I just kind of tagged along with friends when they went on college visits, basically just tried seeing like, what are other successful people doing? I'm just going to kind of copy that. And that's how otherwise I wouldn't have even known like where to go. That is truly remarkable. That is.

That is. I'm describing right now. Thanks. Having the presence of mind to do that at age 16 at age 17, oh, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. So instead of just sitting back and saying, well, I don't know what to do so I'm not going to do anything, I'm going to look at what other people are doing and I'm going to copy them.

That's awesome. Yeah. I think like because I just knew so young that. I didn't like the situation I was in. And I was like, I don't want to live a life like this. It has to be different. So what life do I want to live? And I don't even know what else exists out there.

And I would say like even into my adult life, there's things that I'm like constantly learning like, oh, I didn't even know that was like an option, like whether it's like entrepreneurship or starting your own business. So wait, like regular people do that. Wait a minute. And I feel like my eyes are constantly being open. But at the time, it was just no, I know I don't like that life. So I need to like copy the life of what other success.

is what people are doing where I would enjoy a life like that. You know, they get to go on vacations or, you know, or, you know, whatever. And yeah, that's, that's kind of, that's how I got through that. Wow. So, so we, you learn how to be self-sufficient and literally take care of yourself at 16, 17 years old, including paying for all the necessities of life and going to school. Then you put yourself through college, working multiple jobs and graduate, frankly, with only $35,000 in student loan debt from a pretty good school, a college with completely, like, essentially on your own. That is absolutely extraordinary. And then you're complaining because you're making too much money and it's, and you're spending it afterwards. Yeah. What year did you graduate college?

2009. 2009. But, you know, I have to say that like, the, you said something that I think that's really important as well, which is I only had $35,000 in loans. And that is because my freshman in year of college. You know, like if you live in the dorms, usually you have like a, what are they called, like the dorm leader or whatever. And it's like another college student who was like one grade older. And, oh, the, what are they called the R.A., the residence assistant. Yeah.

Yeah. So I like got my student loan information back. And I saw all this money and I was like, wait, I'm like taking out all this money. So I went and knocked on her door and I was like, can you help me navigate student loans? And she was like, I don't even have student loans. So no. But my dad is a wealth management advisor. So let's call him.

So we literally called him. He walked me through what subsidized loans were versus unsubsidized loans. He's like, you don't have to accept the unsubsidized loans. Take only the subsidize if you can and just try to work part time. You know, if your grades start slipping, then do the unsubsidized. But like, honestly, I would have had double the loans if I had not followed his advice. Do you remember his name? Let's shout him out.

I don't remember his name. I'm sorry. I know. Like, it's funny how like you have just like these pivotal moments in your life that completely changed your life. and I don't even know his name. Shout out to the RA's dad who took the time to explain this because, yeah, you could have had a boatload of debt.

You could have seen all of this free money available and taken it out and gone shopping and had crazy amounts of debt when you graduate. Yes, and I have lots of friends who did that. Yeah. I feel really lucky that that got explained to me so early on. But, okay, so yes, you were lucky it got explained, but you also took the initiative to seek somebody out to help understand because I think that the student loan industry is filled with criminals who don't properly explain this to 17 and 18 year old kids who are taking out

these giant loans not even knowing what they're doing. Absolutely agree with you 100%. Yeah. Well, because I'm right. You have to agree with me. It's filled with criminals. You are right. You are right. It's criminal. I mean, the like, I mean, and especially the private student loans that exist. I mean, mine were federal government student loans. They were like fairly low interest rates. But I see some of these people now, like some of them are like at 12, 15 percent. I'm like, how is this even allowed? Yeah. But yes. That is absurd. Agree with you a thousand times over. Okay. And let's look at all of the things that are stacked against you. You graduated in 2009. I don't know if you know this, but there was a huge recession going on then. I did. I thought it was

just a terrible interviewer. I was like, nobody wants to hire me. Nobody. Like I paid a hundred to have my resume written because I was like, I clearly don't know how to put a resume together. And $100 in college dollars is like $10,000. Right. So I'm like, yeah, it was tough. So what did you study in college? Yeah.

So I double majored in communications in Spanish. So I like really wanted to travel. And I'd always been like interested in learning another language. So like my favorite music is like a chatta music. And so like I love just like all of that. So studied abroad and. Spain for about eight months. So I ended up double majoring in those two. So when you graduated high school, I'm sorry, when you graduated college, you went and got a job. Yes. Finally. How long did it

take you to get that job? Oh my gosh. Okay. So I started in September, graduated in May, started in September. Okay. And even though that doesn't sound like very long, I'll tell you, it felt like three years because I all of a sudden was like, okay, I mean, I don't have anywhere to live now because on campus your apartments kind of end, like right when the school year end. So I had to go live, luckily. I had a friend who was still living with her mom over the summer. She was going to save up a little money. She started right away. But her and her mom, like, let me live with her for those like a few months until I got a job and she had saved up money. And then we became roommates in the city. But yeah, it was not that long, but I'll say that it felt like a really long time. It was a

It was a sales job. And you said you made, this job went really well. You made $77,000 in your first year with this job. Yes. So I had a base salary. It was like, I'm probably not going to say it perfect, but I think it was like $38,000. And then the rest was bonus. So I kind of got it throughout the year.

So I didn't really realize, you know, and then the taxes were taking. So I didn't really realize what my total income was because I wasn't following a budget really of any type. Before that, I had just been skrimping so much. And then I got to that point, I was like, oh, like, I can, like, go by myself a vodka red bowl or whatever you drink at 22. Like, this is cool. And then I got my taxi train.

That's when I was like, wait a minute. I have no savings. I'm in the same place I was last year. What the heck is going on? I thought everything was going to change when I got this, like, great job. Yeah, not how that works. Everything will not change. If you keep doing the same things you were doing before, you will have the same results you

had before. Exactly. So if you weren't saving any money before and you're not saving any money. money now, it doesn't just all of a sudden multiply in your bank account. No, and people are like, I'll be better at the same. I feel like there are a couple of well-deserved Red Bull Vodka's here. I agree with that. Yeah, I think you get a pass on this first year.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but that's also why I'm like, you know, it's not true. Like, people are like, oh, well, when I start making more money, then I'll be able to save. And I'm like, I can tell you your first-hand experience, that is not necessarily. I mean, sure, to a degree. If you are literally so paycheck to paycheck and like, at like the bottom of the barrel like sure but for most of us that is not the case i can tell you after my first year of a working woman it was not so you have this revelation in i'm going to guess

2011 when you're doing your taxes for 2010 is that right yeah i would say that was about right yeah awesome and what what changes what do you decide after you kind of realize hey i should have had i should have been building wealth now yeah so i will say that so i started the job like i said in um you know, like it was September of 2009. And I went to this, like, training class in Florida. I'm from Chicago. So I went to this training class in Florida, which was super exciting. You know, my first job, got, like, some new clothes from Target. I was, like, ready to go. And we're setting up, like, all of our HR stuff. And this, like, older guy next to me was like, I was filling it out. And I was like, what the heck's a 401K? He's like, just put 10% into it. And I was like, but what is it? He's

like, don't worry about it. You'll just be happy. You did this. and then mark that button that says increase it by 1% every year. And I was like, wait, so I'm just like giving them my money. I'm going to get less money. He's like, yeah, but it'll be worth more later. Just trust me. And I was like, all right. So I followed his advice, literally not even knowing what a 401k was.

And then after that first year, I was like, okay, I need to understand how taxes work. Why do I still have the same amount of student loans, even though I've been paying like $260 every month? Why do I, like, what is the difference between statement balance and current balance on my credit card? why is that not going down? Like, what is this 401? So that is when I'm like, I need to figure out what the heck is going on with all of this money that I'm making.

And that's when I really started just kind of like digging into stuff. I mean, for my 401K, it was held at Fidelity. So I literally just called Fidelity. And I was like, what, what is a target date fund? What is this? Like, what is my money going into? Is 10% enough? Like, how do I get?

So I just like started calling and asking questions. I called Chase. I'm like, what is current? balance and statement balance is what is this minimum? And I just started asking lots of questions. It wasn't like perfected in a week or a day or anything like that. It was like years before I would say I got like really good at it, but it was really just asking questions. This is so awesome. So give us like this journey, an overview of the journey here. You're asking questions. It's a couple of years. How does that look? What happens to your student loan balance, your credit card balances,

your investing patterns? And where's kind of the next phase of your journey? Yeah. So my first, was like, okay, well, I think I should have some savings because what if I lose my job tomorrow? So then I worked on building up an emergency fund, which like if you follow like any personal finance, people, they'll say that's the number one, you know, the first thing you should do. So for me, that was the first thing I did was like, I need to have some cash savings. And then I hid the bank account because I was also guilty of like constantly pulling out of my savings. I was like, I need to not even be able to see it. So when I called Chase one time, I was like, do you have any tips on how to not pull money

out of your savings because I don't know what to do. She's like, oh, just hide it. And that worked for me. So that was a good job. So I mean, those little things like that over the years. And then, you know, I decided to not aggressively pay down my student loans with my regular paycheck, but rather to use my bonuses because those were like above and beyond what my like regular paycheck was. So then I started using chunks of those, not the whole thing, but just chunks of it to start paying those down. they were low interest, but they were still giving me a lot of anxiety because, like I said, they were like $35,000. I'm like, that is so much money.

I don't like owing that much money. So I started just taking chunks of money, paying those down over the years, but not like so aggressively that I didn't have any money to do anything else. And then I allowed myself to like still do some fun things like on this journey. Like I love traveling. Like I mentioned, I studied abroad. So I made sure that I still had money to like travel and go out with friends, but I actually made a budget for myself.

So it was like, okay, I have this. much to spend. Well, if I want like a new outfit for like girls' night sushi on Friday, then I can either do that or this thing. So I started just kind of, you know, living within my means a little more, I would say. And then obviously I'd be your way not. I made more money. I started increasing my investment amount, paying down the loans a little faster and leaving more room for fun as well. What would you say is kind of like the next milestone in your journey? Like you've just, you've just done this, you know, you're making extraordinary little wins in all these different areas, but like, you know, what does this picture look like in 2014, for example,

or 2015? What is, sorry, what does the picture look like in 2000? Oh, you mean like from back then. So, yeah, I would say for me, my, like, biggest personal hurdle has always been my money mindset, you know, growing up, like, super poor. You just don't forget what it's like to not have, like, enough food or a shower. So money has always been a constant source of anxiety for me. Like, I'm afraid that I'm just going to lose all my money one day and not have any.

So I would say that I got better, like how I mentioned, you know, I started like traveling a little bit more and like being okay spending some of my money. I got to a point where I went to all out that first year. Then I went to a point where I like halted everything. I was like, oh my gosh, I need to save everything. But then I didn't have any fun. I didn't like that either. And then I got to a point where I would say I was able to balance it a little bit more and be like, okay, wait, no, I'm doing okay. I'm tracking all right. Like, you know, my student loans are in a really good place. Like when I Google, it seems like I'm doing okay. And really just allowed myself to, like I said, live life a little bit while still saving and investing. I think that's really important. I think

people get on this path and they're like, I am going to all out, pay down my debt and not have any fun. And I'm going to, I mean, I don't think they think about it as not having any fun. I think they think of it as I have $35,000 in student loan debts. I'm going to throw every single dime I have at that because I don't want this debt anymore. And in the grand scheme of life, If it takes you an extra year or two to pay off your student loans and you have a more enjoyable life while you're doing it, that's going to make you want to continue. Like all of these people that are on this debt paydown journey and they don't see any progress or they're just miserable every minute of the day because they're not having any enjoyment

in their life at all, it's going to make it so much easier to be like, you know what, forget it. I'm just always going to have debt and that's just going to be a part of my life. Absolutely. And I will say like going back, like knowing what I know now, if I were to go back, I would not have rushed to pay off those student loans. I would have worked on the money mindset first because, I mean, honestly, they were all below like four and a half percent. They were all really low. I think like a couple were four and a half. Some of them were literally two percent.

So for me, I would have prioritized investing that extra money and probably just made my minimum payments for longer rather than throwing chunks of money. I wish I would have thrown extra chunks of money into like a brokerage account or worked to make. max out my 401k more. So I'm happy I did what I did, but I would say going back, you know, I am not the person who is ever going to say like every single person needs to be debt free. I think if you have a low interest rate, like your money can work harder for you. That's what the wealthiest people do. Most of them use debt as leverage for other things, right? So even like, you know, financing a car. Like people are like, you financed your car? Like, I'm like, yeah, I have like, I don't know, $2,000 left on it. Well, why don't you just pay

that out? Why would I? the 1.9% interest rate. Like, I'm just making my monthly payments and living my life over here. So for me, I probably would have not done that now, but at the time, it's what I needed. And so it made sense. So when did you pay after student loan debt? I like remember exactly where I was sitting. I expected confetti to explode out of my computer and it did not. But what year was that? I was 26. So nine years ago. Oh, I just did the age thing. But yeah, nine years, nine years ago. Awesome.

So what year is it? Yeah. Whatever year today, minus nine years. So in 2013, what did your situation look like? Did you have, you had all your student loans paid off? Is your credit card paid off? You have $2,000 on your car loan at that point in time? Yeah. So the credit cards were paid off. I had done a good job of not racking up debt because now I understood how those worked. The student loans were paid off, but it was the first year that I lost on my roommates. They all got like engaged and married and didn't want to live with me anymore. So I got my own place, which was significantly more expensive. So it was nice to get rid of that monthly payment to put toward that because my cost of living had increased. But I had like a really sweet apartment.

I did the thing for like two years where I had like the, you know, floor to ceiling windows. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to soak up every day. I sat in that apartment more than I probably have anywhere else just enjoying what I had. So. And that's in Chicago. with a nice view. Yes, yeah. And what's going on with your career during this time period? Yeah. So I worked at the same, this is also my, for anybody to listen, my biggest financial mistake I've ever made. People have asked that before, about to tell you right now. It is staying at the same company for way too long. So I stayed at my last company for 12 years, which I think there is a fine line between job hopping and over staying, you're welcome. And even though I moved positions a bunch of times in the company, I absolutely was just so underpaid that I started getting very salty and just wasn't a great situation.

And like I said, I was moving jobs within the company. And so that was like all good in keeping my like interest, if you will. But I was so afraid to leave a stable job because I was like, well, I know everybody. It's remote. That's great. Like, I mean, this pays better than no pay. and it kind of comes back to that scarcity mindset and just the need for stability.

I knew enough people that if anything ever happened to a role, I'd easily be able to find another one. And then finally it got to a point where I'm like, I have enough saved. If I were to lose my job, that would suck for sure. But like, you know, I have got to go for something more. And so I actually only just left that company of 12 years back in September of last year for a new company in a tech job.

So it was for anybody who's like been sitting at your company, you know, for a traditional corporate job, I would say. I know that it's different if you're like in healthcare or a teacher or something like that. But in a corporate job, if you've been there for like more than five years, it's probably time to like at least explore. Did you give us an idea about the percentage change in income you got from changing jobs? Double. Wow.

100%. Perfect. Like, yeah. Way more. That's unbelievable. No, it's not. It is sad, but it is not unbelievable. There are a lot of people that we have talked to who say,

I change jobs every year, every two years, and I get a 25% increase. I get a 10% increase. I get, you know, $50,000 more when I leave the company just because the new hire. I saw this tweet recently. It's like the new hire budget is so much more than the retention budget. Yeah. Another issue for that is that many times companies will have a role that they're hiring for and they don't have a place for you to go in that, right?

So there may not have been a, hey, there's no, there's no role we have for Amanda that we can promote her to that level for. Another company has that role. And I think that's another huge component of what's going on with some of these massive, massive raises. Yeah, I think it was, to your point, Mindy, like just probably, you know, being in that like three to seven percent pay increase every year and like just needing to get out of that rut. And also, I just pivoted to a higher paying industry in general. So I think it was probably a couple of factors. And even though it was double, like, I was definitely underpaid at my last job. And I just had kind of, especially because it was like during COVID, I just kind of like let it go because I felt like I liked the stability. But I would say that it was a-

I'm going to give everybody a pass who stayed through COVID because why would you leave in the middle of a pandemic that we haven't had for a hundred years and leave a stable job and go jump someplace else. Yes. But yes. I agree. I used that time to start my she wolf of Wall Street business. So still good, happy things came out of it.

But yeah, absolutely was like need that stability for sure now. How do you think that your personal emergency reserve or your savings account, you know, I always wonder if there's a relationship between the size of that and the willingness to go and explore these other opportunities like that? Was that at all true for you? Did that play a factor? Or was that irrelevant to your decision to stay for a long time? Yeah. So I'll say that first, you know, when it comes to like your emergency fund and just like how much you should have, I've always been like probably a little more on the conservative side, had like a little more cash and like women. We tend to hoard cash more than we should. And I knew that about myself. But I will say when COVID happened and I just remember when all the markets just like collapsed. I threw like 75% of my cash into the market at that point because I was like, this will recover.

The stock market's never not recovered. So I used a bunch of my liquid savings during that. And then was like, okay, but now I need to like rebuild it up. So it was like risky. I stayed with the company, but I did deplete a bunch of my savings. And then I was like once it got to the point post-COVID, you know, I was continuing to dump as much money into the market as it could. But when it came to the point of like, now I need to look for a new job, I did increase my

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Any important details in between any, any milestones that we should talk about from the. I'll say like, honestly, it was, I don't want to say boring. So if like any of my friends are listening to this, nobody's boring. But I will say like safe. I stayed as safe as possible. I kept my job. I invested my 15% now I think we're up to or 16% into my 401kicks. It was going up 1% every year.

I was, you know, I was just, I was doing things. very, very safely, like allowing myself, you know, the one vacation a year or whatever. But I would say like compared to like where I am today versus then, like that was very much still survival mode, I would say. And now I'm to the point where I can say like, wait, I'm tired of surviving. I'm ready to thrive. Like let's do this. How can I push myself out of my comfort zone? And I think that honestly, you know, going for a new job last September was like just one piece of the pie. It was getting myself out of my comfort zone of like, I've been in this company and I honestly could probably retire here at 62 like everybody else does and be just fine. But it was like,

I've got to give something up because I'm wanting a little more out of life. So yeah, I mean, I jumped a little bit because it was kind of just a stagnant, a stagnant time in my life. And what was the output of, as you described, it's safe? Was that a 401k balance, an emergency reserve, steady job? Was there any other stockpiling of wealth? debt-free. What did that situation look like? Yeah. So my safe was having, I think it was maybe like a little less than three months of savings, but a little less than three months of savings. I probably should have had a little bit more at that age. But yeah, about three months of savings. I had no credit card debt. My goal was to pay that off every single month, but I loved my points. So I was still using

that, but just like a little much like a more efficient way now. Doing my one, vacation a year, like I said, maybe like a big vacation and then like a weekend trip or something. And then just, you know, doing my nine to five. I will say I've always, I've never been the person who only has one job. So I've always had some type of a side hustle. So during that time, I was still doing side hustles and everybody would be like, wait, I mean, you make like fine money. Why are you doing a side hustle? I'm like, because I need more of it. Like, why not? So whether it was, I mean, I drove for lift for about three years. So during that time when I was by myself, when I didn't have roommates, you know, I would like drive for a lift on Fridays before like I went out or like Saturday

mornings if I wasn't doing anything or Sunday. So I would drive on the weekends or if there was like a Chicago Bears game on a Monday night like after work, I would rush and do like three rides and make like a couple hundred bucks. So it was like still always like grinding during that time, you know, trying to increase just my overall wealth in general. But yeah, I did like a bunch of side jobs like that, whether it was that or selling stuff on Poshmark or thrifting. I opened a gym at 5 a.m. like three days a week. So I would do that before my day job, then sometimes go lift. So I mean, I have always very much, like I said, I mean, it was very much still survival mode. I don't think that's healthy for anybody to maintain for like any extended period of time.

But it was like, okay, I don't have enough money. How do I get more always? You've said a couple of times that your money mindset was a huge hurdle to overcome. Have you overcome that? And like, what have you done to really work on that? Because that is going to be, I think that's going to be something that you're going to struggle with. Like, and it, like, maybe not struggle, but it's always going to be in the back of your mind. Like, oh, no, what if? Absolutely. Like, I will say that, and I think everybody has, like, their own money minds, whether it's like they lived in too much of abundance or too much, like a scarcity mindset. But, and I will say that mine has certainly, it probably will never go away to your point.

But I am in a position where I know exactly how much money I have. I know exactly how long I could live off of that money. I know exactly what accounts I could pull from if all hell broke loose and I lost my job and my business crumbled. And like my husband left me. Like I know where I could pull money out. I know exactly all of that. So I think that for me, it was just really facing my finances head on knowing exactly what money was going where and why it was going into those types of accounts brought me a lot of

peace. So, you know, whether it's like the flexibility of the Roth IRA, like I know I can pull those contributions out if I need to. I don't want to, obviously, if you're listening to this, you don't want to, but you could. I know I could take a loan from my 401k if I absolutely needed to. I know I could liquidate my brokerage account if I absolutely needed to. I know I have cash in hand. So for me, it's just knowing what I have where and why. I love that. You say I know how much money I have. I know all of these things. And it's one thing to have the money there. But if you don't know how much it is, if you don't know where you can pull from, yes, you can pull from your Roth IRA in a pinch.

It has to be a really big pinch. Please do other things before you're going to pull from a Roth. But in a pinch, you can pull from the contributions and pay no taxes. Are you paying? Do you pay fees? I'm having a brain fart right now. Yeah. So you don't pay any, because you've already paid taxes on your Roth.

IRA contributions, right? So you can pull from your contributions for a qualified expense. You just can't pull from the gains until you're, you know, after it's been five years or so yeah, you could. Again, you don't want to. But to me, I like think worst case scenario, okay, we're going to pretend like I've depleted my emergency fund savings. We're going to pretend like no job is on the horizon. We're going to pretend like the brokerage account is now gone. Now what? Now we can pretend like the contributions to the raw thyroid are gone. Okay, now we can take. So it's almost like my like crisis plan. hopefully none of those things will ever happen, but it does make me feel better because I'm like, okay, no, that's probably not going to happen. But if it did, I'd be able to live, I mean,

for a very long time. At this point, I'm in, at this point in my life, I could not save any more money and I could still retire at traditional retirement age. I don't have enough money to like stop working forever and not make any more money, but I would like be okay. So I think for me, that is kind of how I get through the like, you know, the mindset of like, oh, my gosh, but everything's going to crumble. Like, well, if it did, what would you do? And I think it's just walking yourself through those steps. That's a really good exercise.

Take the accounts that you have and prioritize them. That's everybody listening. Take the accounts you have, prioritize them in what's the most advantageous for you to pull from tax-wise and, you know, ease of. access-wise and just make yourself a financial plan so that you can be more conscious of where your money is and how you can access it in an emergency. Right. And I think like we all, our minds tend to go to worst-case scenario, right? So for me, it was literally detailing out worst-case scenario. Zombie apocalypse has happened. What are you going to do? So hopefully those

things won't actually happen. But what would you do? And how long could you survive on what you have? I think has helped me, I should say. So, so this, this, a transition in the way you think about money, moving, you kind of articulate it says moving away from a scarcity mindset to something that's more, more around abundance happened. It sounds like in the past year in particular. And could you walk us through that? And could you also maybe walk us through what, what's going on with the, the social media empire that you, you, you began constructing around this time as well. Yeah. Well, thank you. Empire. That's the goal for sure. Um, it's definitely been like a total source of joy. So I would say that, um, yeah, it's probably like the past yearish is when the social media account actually became fruitful, if you will. So I started it during COVID, like I mentioned. And why I started it was because earlier in the year at that last company where I told you I was there for 12 years, I led, what is the name of the account and all that for people who are not familiar? Yeah. So I started

She Wolf of Wall Street. during COVID. And it really stemmed out of the fact that at the last company, I was there for 12 years, like I mentioned, I built a financial literacy course because what happened was I started talking with like friends and coworkers and realizing that nobody knew anything about money management. And I just assumed people learned it from their parents because like I didn't have

parents growing up. I'm like, well, everybody must have learned this from their parents. Apparently not the case. So I built out a corporate finance course for those who were like new managers and learning how to manage a budget. And then I built out a personal finance course for free. Don't recommend ever doing that for your companies, guys. But it ended up being really good for a lot of people. And thousands of people ended up taking it. And I got like so many messages like, oh my gosh, this was better than anything I ever paid for. And, you know, I got a $100 gift card from my company saying

thanks for building this. So yay for that. But then afterwards, you know, I was like, why the heck did I just do that? I should have built one for myself. But I was like, like, where would I even put this? So I was talking with a friend and I was helping her with some of her money stuff. And she's like, you are so good at this. Why don't you just like start like an Instagram or something? And I was like, you know, I like thought about it, but I'm afraid that people will make fun of me. And she goes, well, who do you think is going to make fun of you? And I was like, I don't know my friends. And she's like, well, then you're not your friends. Friends don't make fun of each other for that. Like, give me your phone. What name did you have in mind? And I was like, well, my name is Amanda Wolf,

both with a knee on the end. And I was like, so I always kind of thought like she wolf of Wall Street would be cool. Like I feel like personal finance is so geared toward men. This would call out that like we got a lady here. Let's talk money. And she's like, oh my gosh, it's available. Like yes, you're going to learn how to do this. I'm like, I don't even know how to like make a post. I'm not a social media guru or anything. And, you know, it was at that point. I'm like, okay, well, I just did this whole course. Like, I kind of know how things are laid out. Like, I'm just going to start posting stuff. And I started posting stuff. And I would say that, you know, I started it. And I think it was like August of 2020 through December of 2020. I just kind of took it casually. And then in January, like the new year,

you know, you got your new year's resolution. And I was like, I'm going to work harder on that Instagram account. So I had about 2,000 followers last January. And that's when I was like, okay, I'm going to like find out what do people feel like they need to learn about? You know, what are they like interested in? So that's when I really started becoming a little more strategic with the account and trying to put out like a like some better content if you will that just resonated a little bit better and then did that for like a year during that time i also took on like some one-on-one coaching with people and i just got to learn about a ton of different unique circumstances that like i haven't faced in my own life whether it was like people going through divorces or single moms or having tons

of tax debt or going to jail if you ever go to jail by the way you have to pay a lot of money when you it out like I didn't know that. So it was just like like crazy situations that people were in. I just learned so much. And then it got to a point where my following got bigger and my coaching list got bigger and it was just overwhelming. And so I was like, I need to like learn how to scale this. And so that's when I was like, I'm going to create courses. And so the courses actually just started selling earlier this year. But it was that's kind of like the evolution of it. It was like, okay, wait, people like I was nervous to start it. Oh, wait, people are interested. it. Oh, wait, now brands are coming to me. Like, brand, like, I've been putting this content out for free.

They, like, I've already been talking about them. They want to pay me to put something up. Like, that's really cool. And so it kind of like turned, you know, from just a little side hustle where I made, like, some money on the side to like, okay, whoa, now it's almost like a second full-time job. I work on it on the weekends in the mornings before work, after work. So I've replaced my lift driving and my, you know, opening the gym at 5 a.m. with my shoe of a Wall Street business. But yeah, it's been like another thing that just totally pushed me out of my comfort zone and, you know, allowed me to see something that I didn't even know existed because running your own business is no joke. Well, it's no surprise that it's going. Your content is amazing.

So anyone who is not yet, check it out. Go check out at She Wolf with an E of Wall Street on Instagram. There's tons of good stuff there. Lots of good tips. And then I love the little mini budget reviews that you do. I'm not sure what you call them. Oh, yeah, the budgeting series, yeah. What are they called? Oh, yeah, it's just a budgeting series. So essentially what I do is I have people submit their information, like how much money they make, how much they spend in a whole bunch of different categories, what their goals are. And then I break down like what I would do with their money if I were them.

Love it. Yeah, I think it's interesting like to see how much money people make in different jobs and like how they actually spend their money because it, you know, getting financially naked, if you will, with your like friends and family members can be a little uncomfortable. So just seeing like, what? what other people are doing with their money, I think can be like pretty eye-opening for people, since it seems to, you know, since it's kind of a black box, if you will. Well, congratulations on the incredible new job, the abundance mindset, and the side business or the second business that you've got here that's exploding. And I think we'll, you know, we'll force a hard decision on your career in the next couple of years here, if it's not already on that. We'd love to hear a little bit about how you invest today. You don't have to, you know, just like in terms of percentages.

You're invested in stocks, 401K. How do you think about where you allocate the dollars that are coming into your life on a personal level? Yeah. So for me, I, and if you're listening to this and you don't have this much money, don't worry, but like I shoot to max out my 401K, max out my HSA, which is just like a unicorn account that I think people don't realize you can actually invest in, do a backdoor Roth IRA, and then the rest in the brokerage account.

So I would say that, like, I am a very boring investor, if you will. Like, I have about 7% right now. I don't know, it changes a little bit when the individual stocks go up and down, but about 7% of my portfolio is in individual stocks. So, and the rest are, I mean, about 5% are in bonds. And then the rest, honestly, are in just a mix of different index funds between, you know, just like the S&P 500, a couple mid-cap, small-cap. But I keep it like fairly simple.

And then like 2% in crypto. I don't know. That number has also been changing. But yeah, I mean, I keep it like fairly boring over here. Used to be 3%. Yeah, like it was 4% at 1.5. I don't know. Now it's like 2%.

I have just considered that like if that goes up cool, if I lose all that money, it will not financially devastate me by any means. but yeah, I keep it pretty, pretty boring and lazy. And I'll say that the thing that I have not ventured into yet that I'm very interested in, that's going to be my goal for next year is to get into real estate investing a little bit because I've been playing it safe over here and, you know, I built up a healthy nest egg. And I think that's like the next step for me. I got to learn first though.

I'm working on it. We know some people in that area. Yeah, it's this website called Bigger Pockets. I've heard that. So you mentioned doing a backdoor Roth. Are you doing a backdoor because of income limits or for other reasons? I guess what are the other reasons? I guess it's just income limits. Yeah, so it's income limit.

So you cannot directly contribute to a Roth IRA if you make over $14,000 if you're single or over $214,000 if you're married. And that's combined income if you're married. You cannot directly contribute to a Roth IRA. So what you have to do is it has a very sketchy name, but it is a perfectly legal tax loophole that exists. And essentially what you do is you open up a traditional IRA, you open up a Roth IRA, you put your $6,000 into the traditional IRA, you don't invest it, which goes against like

everything we usually talk about, let the funds settle, and then there's a convert button, and then you can invest the money in the Roth IRA. So yes, it feels like a very unnecessary step, but if you make over those income limits and you want to be able to take advantage of that tax-free growth, you have to do the backdoor Roth IRA. You said $6,000. Can't you do more than $6,000? Is that the mega backdoor?

And then that is why you would do, as soon as I said, oh, there's no other reason. Of course there's other reasons to do more into your Roth. than you would normally be able to do. Yeah. So if you're over 50, then you can send an extra $1,000 toward it. But then a mega backdoor Roth IRA, that is different. And your company has to actually offer that. That's not something that you can do yourself.

And a lot of tech companies offer it. So you can take advantage, but a lot of companies don't. I would say that it's kind of like, I don't know, it's like the hot newer thing. But you can contribute more money that way. up to like in the 50-ish-thous-thousand. Does your company offer a Roth 401K? They do. And why do you go, why do you do the backdoor instead of contributing to the Roth 401K?

So I do a mix. And again, that's why I said, you know, if you don't have enough money to max out your 401k and do your Roth IRA and the HSA, I do have like an order of operations that I would prefer. But if you have the money, then I would say do it all. What's that order of operations that you prefer? And then, yeah, sorry. Yeah, my order of operations. Okay, so first I would say get your employer match. That is literally, people say it's free money,

but no, it's literally part of your comp. When you were hired, they factored that into your package. So if your company matches 4%, you put 4% in because that is a dollar for dollar return. So that is first. My second would be to do the HSA. So that's 3750, I believe, if you're single. But you do have to be on a high deductible health care plan. And without like going into like 100 different details, an HSA is different than like an FSA. So an HSA stays with you forever, but you do have to be on that high deductible health care plan and you can actually invest that money.

So that's second. And then next would be to max out the Roth IRA, so you can get that, you know, tax-free growth. And then I would go back to your 401K and or brokerage. So I would say that if you don't then have enough money to max out your 401K to leave some money for a brokerage account, I personally like to have a little bit of money in a brokerage account, especially if you're like 20s, 30s, 40s, because you have like a lot of life ahead of you still and you don't know how things will change for you. And I think that having, you know, almost like a savings account on steroids for future things can be really powerful.

So I would like to say, you know, go back to the 401k, but leave a little something for the brokerage account. I love that order of operations. I think the only place where I would even have like a question mark is in the last step. Do I go back to the 401k or do I max out the Roth 401k at my work? And I think it just depends on your long term outlook and goals. So I think I think that's fantastic. But you luckily don't have to make all those tradeoffs because you can just go down the whole stack, it sounds like. Yeah, I mean, but I haven't always been able to go down the whole stack, right?

So when I haven't been able to, that's when I've made those decisions. And as far as like the Roth 401k versus traditional, nobody has a crystal ball and like knows what things are going to look like in the future. So, you know, even though I'm like in a like one of the highest like income tax brackets, like I still put some into the Roth 401K just because I like getting some of that tax free growth. I am going to give you another thing to look at when she wolf of Wall Street starts generating income and you don't have any full time employees, the self-directed solo 401K because then you can put it. and even more money.

I think Chuzafi is coming out with a book about the 401K, the solo 401K, and that is a super fun account, but you can't have full-time employees other than your spouse. Don't worry. Things get better when you have employees, though. You just have more fun games from a retirement planning perspective. There's all sorts of things you can do with pensions and profit shares and all that kind of good stuff. Yeah, no, that will be like an. exciting day for sure. I mean, even, you know, to this point, like I've been work, because like I said,

entrepreneurship and owning my own business is like still very much new territory for me. People are like, come out with like a course for entrepreneurship. I'm like, I'm still learning a little bit. Like, give me a minute because I get that it is confusing. I mean, whether even if you're like an aesthetician, you own your own business, like there's so many things that like, and so many people out there who own their own business that it can get complicated. But to your point, there's also like really powerful accounts out there that exist that can help you just completely. catapult your wealth, but you got to know about it. You got to know what to do. And I also think like hiring a great accountant is one of those things that costs you money, but like makes you

richer because they know all those like tax rules and they know how to like, you know, make your money work best for you, especially in like some some complicated situations like that. But yes, I've already been actively working with my accountant on like how I can best, like protect as much of this income as possible. Yeah, the accountant's really great. And the fee-only financial planner can help a lot in these spaces. So if you're ever thinking about setting one of these up, I would recommend strongly not working with a commissioned financial. You will have to have a financial planner, mostly they'll accept the plan. And if you get a commission one, they're going to set up one that's great for their income. If you get a fee-only person,

they're going to help you with a lot of the new ones. Because there's so many tradeoffs to make when you're setting up these self-directed plans. And when you have employees, it gets even more complex. Yeah, and fees are a thing I watch out for because I know just how much that can like eat into your wealth over time. So those will definitely be questions I'm asking. Yes, and you can find a great fee-only financial planner at the XYPlanningnetwork.com. Okay, so in terms of your total net worth, how is your portfolio split up in terms of retirement accounts versus after tax like brokerage, non-retirement accounts? Yeah. So I will say that it is around. a 60-40 split right now because I only started aggressively investing in a brokerage account

within the last like five years or so. So this whole time I've been really consistent with the retirement accounts, which is like great, of course, right? I've been preparing my, preparing for my future, but I didn't really start investing that much in brokerage accounts until the last fiveish years because I quite simply didn't have the extra money, didn't totally know what I was doing, was still like living within that like, oh, like scarcity. out like, do I, like, is this the right thing to do? And then I realized later on, if you're, if you're one of those people who also have not opened a brokerage account, it's just a different type of account. You're buying the same thing. So like, I think once I realized that,

I'm like, wait a minute. Why have I been doing this? So you're not alone. We talk to a lot of people who's almost entire net worth is in their pre-tax retirement accounts. And you're, we talk to people who are on the path to financial independence and retiring early. And, you know, your traditional retirement is part of your early retirement. And you need to fund that, but you also need to fund your early retirement if that's your goal. So I love that you have money in your brokerage account now. Absolutely. And that's what I was saying like earlier. Like I think it's so important to have some money in a brokerage account, even if you don't know if you're going to retire early because like you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what's going to happen in five or 10 or even 15 years.

So having some money like that is good. And then, of course, you can always do a Roth conversion ladder, which is like something that hopefully I'll be able to implement in my life just to be able to access some of those retirement funds a little bit earlier without the fees as well. Okay. And in terms of your monthly spending, how much cash do you keep on hand and where do you keep it? Yeah. So I personally have my account set up like this.

So I have two checking accounts. one regular savings account and a high yield savings account. So my two checking accounts and one checking account, I have all of my like necessities. And it's been set up like this for so long that it's now just kind of like on autopilot. But my necessity. So it's going to be anything that automatically comes out or is like a bill, which most of them are. Right. So it's going to be my my housing, my car payment, buy dog food like automatically twice a month. That comes out. So anything that's pretty much automated. And I know exactly how much it is comes out of this account one. And then account two is my spending money. So I have already paid myself first. If you've heard that term before, I've already paid myself

first at this point. So I have money from every paycheck automatically go to like all of my different accounts. And then I have my money split into checking account one of necessity, checking account two, things I'm swiping. So that way, even though I'm using my credit card throughout the month, I know that like before my next paycheck, if I have, you know, spent $2,000 on this credit card, I know that I should have $2,000 in that account too. And if I don't, then that means I'm overspending on my credit card because account one is for all the bills. So this is my spending money. So it's kind of like a no budget, budget, if you will, so that I don't have to like neurotically track going out to eat versus shopping. It's just like, I get $2,000 to spend

on whatever because the bills are taken care of. So that is how I have those two. Then for my like, just a regular savings account, I have about like one month of expenses in there just in cash, just in case it did overspend or I suddenly need to take some cash out. And then the rest of my savings, not investments, but my savings is in a high yield savings account. So this is going to be my like additional, you know, I have about four additional months of living expenses in a fund, so my emergency fund. Then I have like some other things. So well, I did have, I just got married. at the end of June. So I did have like a nice fat wedding account, but that's been depleted, but it was worth it. And then vacation, some vacation, like the honeymoon. So, you know,

any beauty things that I want, any big thing that I'm saving up for, I'll have like little buckets of savings over there so that I don't touch it, but I also know what it's for. So that's kind of how I have my money organized and that's like about how much cash I have on hand. So I know that like, if I ever have, you know, I'm not some, I'm not adding anything to my emergency fund at this point, But if something happened and I needed a pull from it, I would add to it. Otherwise, all my extra cash gets invested. So, you know, I mentioned my like spending account, like that checking account too, where all of my spending money comes out of it.

So if I didn't spend that much that month and I only spent, in this example, a thousand of the 2000 and now my next paycheck comes, well, I know I have extra money in that account and I can just invest it. Or I can add it toward another savings goal if I'm saving up for like, I don't know, a Chanel purse or like just something that like I really want. whatever it's going to be. So that's kind of how I have it structured and that's how much cash I keep on hand. So like I said in the beginning, like women tend to hoard money. So you should come up with a routine for you as well that if you know like once you get above a certain limit, like cut

yourself off, you've got to invest that money. Well, what I'm hearing you say is you have thought about it. You think about where your money's going. You consciously are putting only this much in. You're aware of what you're spending, even if you're not tracking it to the degree that other people are. I'm currently tracking my spending super, super, super granularly, but that's a, you know, experiment that I'm doing right now. You're aware of where your money's going and you're aware how much is coming in, how much is going out, how much you have.

Like you said earlier, I know exactly how much money I have and I know where it is. So this is all very thoughtful. And I think there's a lot of people who are in a position where they don't have any money and they don't know why. You have a lot of money and you know why. And it's because you're intentional with everything you're doing. Yeah. And I think it's like the scariest thing is just looking at it at first, right?

I mean, the people I've sat down who have debt and we sit down and look at it and come up with a plan. And I'm like, okay, girl, you're not doing so bad. You can actually be debt free by Valentine's Day. It's like August right now. And she's like, wait a minute. How? Wait, what? Like, well, like, let's look at it.

Like, this isn't so bad. And I think it's one of those things like sometimes we build up situations in our head if maybe you're like in not a great situation. Like you probably have just built this up so much in your head that like once, I think if you sat down and looked at it and came over the plan, it probably wouldn't be as bad as you thought. Or if it was coming up with a plan to get out of it. Like, you know what?

It's going to be a two year journey. But at the end of the two years, I'm going to be done with this. And I think that that just brings a lot of peace. So yeah, you got, but you got to look at your accounts to like be able to get to that point. They don't go away just by not looking at them. No. In fact, they get worse.

Compound interest works both ways. That is a great place to stop. Amanda Wolf of the She Wolf of Wall Street, please tell people where they can find out more about you. Yes, you can find me on Instagram, She Wolf of Wall Street, and that's Wolf with an E. There's a lot of impostors. You've got to be careful with the finance account. She Wolf of Wall Street on Instagram or she Wolf of Wall Street.com is my website, and I post things about free classes that I'm hosting, courses, just other things that are going on.

So you can catch me there or pretty much like any other social media account, TikTok, Twitter. etc. Okay, Amanda, this was so much fun. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much for having me. It's been awesome. We'll talk to you soon. See ya. All right, Scott, that was Amanda Wolf, the She Wolf of Wall Street on Instagram and her website, The She Wolf of Wall Street. I love her so much. Holy cow. Her story is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from childhood poverty to emancipation, to taking care of paying her way through high school and life to paying her way through college, bothering to find out about the insouts of personal finance.

By the way, I thought the only part of the episode where I would even use the word naive for a second was when she thought that most kids got taught about money by their parents. But everything has been self-taught. All this entire journey is something that she figured out for herself. And wow, like what, you know, and it's been, and it's just so fun to see. the rocket ship beginning to take off here in the last year after, you know, a decade of hard work of grind. She called it playing it safe, but it was grinding. It was building a really strong financial foundation that is preparing her for this awesome new career, a side business, and sky is a limit for her.

We'll watch her take over the world over the next, you know, the next 10 years here. You know, Scott, I think my favorite part of her story is when she said, I realized at the end of my first year that I had made all this money, but I didn't have anything to show for it. So I looked at my bank statement and my credit card statement and all of these things, and I didn't understand what this stuff meant. So I called up the companies and I asked them questions. Who does that? I love that she wasn't embarrassed to ask the questions. If you want to know the answer to a question, ask the question.

And don't ask somebody who isn't going to be able to give you the answer. Call up Chase. Call up fidelity. Call up whoever and say, I don't understand this. Explain it to me. And if they can't do it, say, give me somebody else who can't. Ask the questions that you want to know the answer to. That was brilliant.

That is a great tip. If you don't know the answer to something, ask and keep asking until you understand the answer. I love her. And I think, I think, like, that's, like, what's fun about the story is that was, that was in 2009, 2010. And that's not like a long time ago. But it's just, it's right before all these blogs and forums popped up around financial independence with that. And so, you know, like that mentality, I think, was, it was harder to get those types of answers.

Now, if you have those questions, yes, like many said, call or post it to the Facebook group or post it to the forums. And you'll get answers to those questions. So it's really easy to do that. And you're just giving yourself a huge disadvantage by not asking these things, how to go, how to find it. And then someone just points you that one link, oh, now I'm ready to go. Now I found the rabbit hole and can go down it. It's so hard to get that entry. point into this stuff if you don't have someone just pointing in the right direction helping you

out. Absolutely. Oh, I love her story so much. And I love, like I said in the beginning, I love her tenacity. She is going to go so far. Yeah. And we shouted out the RA's dad who helped her with their student loan debt. But how about a big shout out to all of the support reps from Fidelity and the bank that told her to hide her bank account? I mean, these are huge tips one by one that we got throughout the journey. Yep. Shout out to everybody who helped her on her. journey and shout out to everybody who helps you on your journey too. Okay, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it.

From episode 329 of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, he is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying, got to go, Buffalo.