BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 410: From Homeless at 14 to Debt-Free Homeowner AFTER Prison Time

Episode Date: May 12, 2023

A debt-free homeowner with an emergency fund and a keen eye for personal finance? A few years ago, Jazmyn Gray wouldn’t have dreamed that’s how her life turned out. From a young age, Jazmyn was thrown into drug addiction, homelessness, a life of crime, and later, prison time. She was a teenage mother whose silver lining was running a successful business until she was robbed, abused, and pushed into relapsing. But that’s not Jazmyn’s whole story. Through some entrepreneurial pursuits behind bars and putting her finances first, Jazmyn has had an almost unbelievable path to recovery. Even after her time in prison, Jazmyn was forced to pay restitution and other debts she had piled up before her incarceration. However, through a chance meeting with none other than our own Scott Trench, Jazmyn was given the master plan she needed to rebuild her financial position, even when the odds were stacked against her. Now, in a completely different position than she was in just a few years ago, Jazmyn is ready to tell her whole story, not only to provide hope to those that need it but give actionable steps to improving your financial life. You’ll hear how she built a six-figure business within a few months, how she recently bought a house with a record low interest rate, the debt snowball method she used to become debt-free faster than most Americans, and how she’s using her rough road to help others build their own wealth. In This Episode We Cover Hitting financial rock bottom and starting your journey when you have nothing Building a six-figure business and what caused Jazmyn to give up hers Homelessness, drug addiction, and fighting to survive as a teenager The “debt snowball” method Jazmyn used to pay off her debt in record time  Buying your first home and how to do so only a few years after being dead broke Jazmyn’s easily-repeatable advice for ANYONE starting their financial journey  And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Mindy on BiggerPockets Scott's Instagram Grab Scott’s Book, “Set for Life” Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! The Real Estate Rookie Podcast Listen to The “On The Market” Podcast: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, BiggerPockets Money Moment From Extreme Poverty to DIY Wealth and 2 Full-Time Incomes 12 Things to Give Up to Become Debt-Free This Year Get Involved with CrossPurpose Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-410 Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Let us know! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Just a friendly heads up that today's episode, while ultimately a success story, discusses drugs, alcohol, addiction, and recovery. Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, where we interviewed Jasmine Gray and talk about her journey through a tough financial upbringing to becoming debt-free and working on building wealth. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me, as always, is my financial coach, co-host, Scott Trench. Great to be here with my general manager of finance, Mindy Jensen.

Scott and I are here to make financial independence. it's less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. That's right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business, or recover from severe financial setbacks, including restitution and personal debt, will help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards those dreams. Scott, I am so excited to talk to Jasmine today. She has a story that we really haven't heard before,

and it is a story ultimately of triumph. And when you set your mind to something, you truly can't accomplish anything. Absolutely. I've had the privilege of knowing Jasmine for the last couple of years and watching this journey that we're going to hear today unfold. And it's been remarkable to see her progress. This is someone who works as hard as anyone I've ever met is energized and motivated to achieve her goals, passionate, and ultimately finds a way to win and succeed. And I think you're going to hear a heartbreaking story to set things up. And I think you're going to be amazed at what she's been able to accomplish from that terrible starting position. Yep. And all of your excuses are now invalid for the reasons that you

too cannot accomplish financial independence or become debt-free or better yourself or grow wealth or or or what is that if you whether you believe you can or you can't you're right? Well, Jasmine absolutely believed that she could and she did and I love it. All right, before we bring in Jasmine, we have a new segment on this show called Money Moment where we share a money hack, tip or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today's money moment is unplug your appliances. Did you know many electronic devices sip energy when they're plugged in even if they aren't being used?

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Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank member FDIC. Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business owners who have streamlined their finances with Found. has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade. I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the anxious generation for parenting perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being.

What makes Audible so powerful is its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP Money. And we're back. Jasmine Gray is the recovery program manager across purpose, a nonprofit organization abolishing relational, economic, and spiritual poverty through career and community development. Jasmine is here to tell her money story today from growing up in a financially tough situation to serving time in jail to turning her life around through hard work and financial literacy.

Jasmine, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I can't wait to hear your story. Anna, thank you. I'm happy to be here. This is such a gift. I'm excited. I'm like, oh, sorry. No, no, don't apologize. This is going to be a very interesting story. Let's jump in with what was money like in your family growing up.

So money wasn't really talked about. And if we wanted to earn money, the response from my grandparents was you do your chores to earn a roof over your head. And that's what, you know, that's what money is for. And it doesn't go through the hands of children. And other than that, it wasn't talked about. when there were financial issues. We didn't know about it. That's how my relationship with money was growing up very young. I just remember being like, I want what the other kids have, shoes, clothes, etc., and not being able to get them or my mom couldn't afford them or what have you. And so I started hustling in the form of, you know, selling marijuana or different substances. And I got my own phone. I started buying clothes and shoes for myself to have what other kids had. And that's kind of like, that's where my hustle mentality was born from not having much growing up and having to, you know, earn it. So, yeah, through chores or earn a roof over my head through doing chores. So

figuring out money was my other challenge that, a challenge for me to do on my own for things I wanted. And what age are we talking about here? Probably about 12 years old. Okay. So at 12 years old, you're the tough financial situation for your family, had you kind of turning to selling marijuana and these other activities to bring in additional income on the side. Is that, is that right? Correct. Okay. And I understand that shortly after this period, you experienced some homelessness.

Would you mind walking through how that came to pass? Yeah. When I was 14 years old, my mom actually booted me out onto the street. So I was living in trap houses and sleeping sometimes on parked benches. And so from there, I really had to learn how to provide for myself in the form of more hustling, criminal activity. And even when I, as soon as I was old enough to work, when I was 15, I also got a job at Lakeside.

So, and then combined with all of the other things, there's, yeah, I hope to answer the question. What is a trap house? Oh, hey, trap house. It's a place that's either abandoned or a place where like a lot of criminal activity happens or drugs are being sold or done on the premises. the property. A lot of people who are experiencing homelessness end up in these places and depend on each other to survive. Jasmine, was there a usage of drugs and alcohol going along with

the hustling that you described here in the criminal activities? Yes. So I started using substances, drinking alcohol at the age of 10. I was smoking weed, using substances. And then by the age of 12, I was addicted to crack cocaine. And from there, my addiction. progressed to ecstasy, methamphetamine, you name it. I was indulging in it. Your story is so remarkable coming from a background that's as tough as what you're describing here, kicked out onto the street, dealing with addiction, a criminal background that comes in here. And so thank you for sharing what must be really hard story to share with a lot of folks around your background. I believe you also had some, you, you,

In addition to some of these lately activities, you also started a business and had some entrepreneurial ventures around this time. Would you mind describing a few of those? Yeah. So when I was 18, almost 19, I started my own cleaning company called 303 Cleaning LLC. And within the first four months, I grossed about, I think it was 25K the first after the second month. And then after the four months, I was just like, whoa, I made 38K. this month alone and I just recognized how being an entrepreneur kind of like, oh, I can I can make money, but I didn't know how to budget to make sure that there was money going back into my

business, which is something I'm glad that I learned super early on because out of that, I had this hunger to learn how to use money as a tool and not for, not necessarily for fun. How did you get this business? you started and how did you get the first clients? I was cleaning hotels and I just remember, I just think back and I remember how easy it was to clean hotels. And then I was looking at job postings for like Molly Maids and different maid cleaning companies. And I worked at a residential commercial cleaning company for a few months. And I just noticed some gaps. I noticed things that weren't being done, things that could have been done better. And I started doing some research on

the pricing that my company offered, pricing of other companies. And I started like just posting my own ads back then. I think it was like Thumbtack. I started with Thumbtack. And I started getting clients. And before, you know, and I was still working. And then once I took on more regular clients, I quit my job doing residential cleaning and from there it just kind of grew to where end of, I think it was like the second month. I just took on so many things. So I'm bidding on all these jobs and being competitive with my pricing. I just started. I hired four part-time people so that I didn't have to pay for benefits or, you know, all those things because I'm a kid. I don't know how to do this, but I do know that I do need to obey the laws because by this time I had already done juvenile time. behind bars. So I was like, oh, I'm going to do this so I don't go to jail for, you know,

any blue collar or white collar crime. So after that, the business was successful for about six months before I relapsed. But yeah, super exciting venture. The business was successful before you relapsed. You were, you were growing and growing. I mean, you made $38,000 in one month. That's a whole year's salary for some people. I know, When I first started out, that was more than a whole year salary for me. So what were you doing with the funds when they came in besides, I mean, I'm assuming that you were paying your workers and buying more supplies, but what were you doing with the extra? So with the money, I was interestingly enough, I paid my phone bill for a year in advance. I paid my rent six months in advance.

And I wasn't, I noticed like I wasn't like paying to get the vacuums cleaned or paying for. this, but then I started also using that money irresponsibly to do drugs. At the time, I was experiencing a heartbreak. And what I found, too, is that I've kind of like run to work when I'm dealing with emotional stuff that I don't want to deal with. So when I was exiting a relationship that was, you know, heartbreaking and I relapsed in the process as well. So that's kind of, that's where my money went was substances. How long did that relapse last? Did it completely end the business, or were you able to, I don't know how to phrase this, kick it again? No. So I wound up going to the hospital with my two children. My son had a RSV. And I asked somebody else to run my business for me

that was staying in my house, which you could call a trap house probably a trap house by this time. And this person actually robbed my home, took my business checks, went to my client's houses, picked up checks, but did not do the job. So in, and I was in the hospital for eight days. So within eight days, I lost at least 60% of my clientele. Wow. And how old were you at this time? I was 19. Okay.

So at 19, you have two kids. you have a business that has just been robbed and wrecked and you're in a relapse situation. Is that right? Yeah. And my home was actually robbed as well. So all of it was coming out of the hospital and just getting that kind of like thrown on you. It was definitely challenging. But the way that I handled that was I fell deeper into my addiction versus try to pick up the pieces again because the following that I couldn't make a car payment. I couldn't pay my people anymore that were working for me. I couldn't pay, like, and all this money I had in savings had been taken out by this person cashing checks all over Denver with the money that I had in the business, which wasn't much in savings. It was probably about $15,000.

And then when I filed a police report and they came back and they told me who it was, I could not. I just couldn't press charges because of, where this person was to me. So after that, I just went back to hustling, but this time more intensely on the side of, like, dealing in crime, not so much drug dealing, more crime. And within a matter of months, I mean, my business got, like,

I lost all my clientele by, like, March of 2015. And by June, I lost my kids. cars, house, everything. And that November, I find myself incarcerated facing, like, on my way to prison. Okay, so 2015, you're 19 and you're incarcerated for how long is the sentence? 2015, I started, I, in November, I went and it was just before my 20th birthday. I went to jail, and then I got out like once or twice, but I would do seven months, eight months before. for sentencing. And then I spent a total of four years or through almost four years in prison. From 20 to 24, I was in prison. Okay. And so can you tell us about the experience during that time?

Did anything change while you're in prison? And can you walk us through what happened when you were released? I think I should probably start to like where the change started because it was prior to prison. I just remember being desperate. I was homeless. I was homeless. I was tired. I was angry at myself. I just got, like, I got, like, I screamed at God. Like, I think it's the first time I remember having, like, just conscious that there's a higher, something in the universe that's like controlling everything and it's not me. I was just like, I need to change my life. Like, I fell to my knees and I just started crying and just begged. And I had all these stipulations, right? I don't want to go to prison with new charges. I don't

want to go this. I don't want to go that. And before I know, I'm on my bondsmen to catch up with me and I am on my way to prison. And I think being at that rock bottom, that desperate need for change and wanting to regain and restore all the things that I stole from myself. So like relationships with my children, home, business, cart, like everything that I had worked. so hard to earn. I lost just as quickly. And in prison, I just remember walking through the yard and all of these descriptions of what I thought I built my life on these morals and values. Like, I just felt them being stripped off of me. And the more that I focused on myself and took accountability for my actions and turned to God and just like read books and educated myself and

pursued because in prison they have access to all these training like trainings and AutoCAD and all these different things that you act that you can better your life with. So I took advantage of that time and really just kind of use it to look inside myself and say, I never want an opportunity like this again in my life to get my mind right and get out there and just just do it right this time. So you used the word, um, hustling earlier to describe some of the activities you did as a teenager. I understand that the definition of hustling began to change at this point in time and that you hustled in prison as well to a certain extent. Would you mind sharing a little bit of that?

Yeah. So I think it was like a year and a half into prison. I was starting to be broke. I didn't have anybody that really sent me any money. I didn't really have any contact with the outside world. No contact with my kids or anything like that either. So I started to like, oh, I can make candies. like I would melt down these lemonade candies or whatever kind of candy into like a sucker form. I'd pull off the cotton of the Q-tip and stick the Q-tip in the sucker and let it dry and harden. And then in the middle I'd put like a piece of taffy or a gummy, like a gummy snack. And then I would bake like chili suckers, taffy suckers and I would bake taffy. And I would sell those for stamps and that would be my currency in there to survive and get the things I needed.

the things I wanted like shoes, sweatsuits, TV, coffee pot. I needed the coffee pot to do my business, you know, and then re-up, you right, how somebody order the things I need in exchange for stamps. That's awesome. I love it. The entrepreneurial spirit, the whole way through here. What happens upon your release? What happens there? And how does that go? And what kind of, how does the story continue? So when I was getting released from prison, I actually got kicked out because they're running out of space. And I was like six months. months away from my MRD and I was in this class. What is MRD for those who don't know?

Mandatory release date. And I was in my class. And I was just like, and it's AutoCat and that's software engineering like through a computer for those that may not know. I was really excited about it because that was the way I was going to make big bucks when I got out, right? But they kicked me out of prison before I could finish a class. So when I got out, I was just, I understood one thing and that's that I needed to

survive and the only way that I was going to do that was through opportunities. And the only way to get opportunities is to seek them. So I got connected with cross-purpose. I got connected with case management through the wages program at the Empowerment Program of Denver. And I started looking for jobs like right away. I got out on a Friday. I started my first job on the very next Friday. And I was just all over Denver trying to get into programs and resources that help people who have been to And awesome. So I just want to explain what cross-purposes for those who don't know. It's a it's a, a, a nonprofit organization here in the Denver area that helps people like Jasmine, who are serious about improving their lives, go through a career development program. And they have really good track record of after several months, I think it's a six-month program, of placing their alumni, Jasmine, you are an alumni, into jobs where you're earning, you almost, always greater than $20 per hour. So it's lifting folks in the community out of the poverty line. And this is work that I've volunteered off and on with for seven or eight years and that you've

taken part of on the side of being a leader, which is a participant in the program. How'd I do? Yeah, you did pretty good. Yeah. So you just got this job on Friday a week after and you're attending cross-purpose. It sounds like right out the gate there. Sorry to interrupt your story. Yeah, no worries. Cross purpose is a really good job of supporting people as they are not only like maintain where they're currently at, but really like sustain and reach towards heights that they may not have otherwise reached. And that comes with relationship. So I actually was afraid I wasn't going to get into cross purpose because they told me that I wouldn't qualify for a bookkeeping track because of my background. And I was like, oh, no, I think I can I think I can do it. I think I could do it. And I called them every day. for like a month. Mays wasn't every day. Mays like once a week and then I started becoming every other day towards the end of the deadline to get into the program. And then when I got accepted, no joke, I actually was like, yes, like I jumped up and clicked my hills and I think I was walking on Colfax. People must have looked at me really funny. But I was just like really

excited to get into the program because I truly believe like this program is going to help me change my life. So after I got into the program, I started working two jobs. So I'm going to school full time working two jobs and cross-purpose does food well so if anybody's you know hungry and they're going to school or whatever like cross-purpose feeds you um but i would eat like from cross-purpose my restaurant job which i was making nine dollars an hour or i would just eat from the food bank to cut costs because i still had to pay rent i was living with my brother but he charged me like 700 bucks a month for rent plus utilities um and nine dollars an hour in Denver in 2019 is not a livable wage. So I really, I really just busted my butt from that time forward.

And then I got a full-time job doing accounts receivable at RAC transports like billing, customer service, accounts receivable, all those things intertwined into this one position. And I just remembered like feeling like $16 an hour is not enough. I need to hold on to this $9 an hour job and I need to hold on to this other weekend job that I have. So I was constantly working multiple jobs to save money to pay down debt to get the things that I wanted, like needed, to like a car. And I would starve myself because food wasn't as important as maybe paying my child support or paying down the debt balance of other things that I have, like restitution. So, yeah, that's a little bit about that beginning journey. And that I continued working multiple jobs up until I started working at cross-purpose in August of 2021.

Let's talk about your debt and your restitution. What was your financial situation when you got out of prison? And how much, what was this debt and what was this restitution? When I got out of prison, I think I had like 28K in debt and at least 16K of that was restitution. and the rest is just like student loans, random bills that I hadn't paid. I think I had like a credit card or like a internet bill that I hadn't paid, child care bill that I hadn't paid from prior to prison.

And some of those things, you know, fell off of my credit record. But I paid most of them because, yeah, I just wanted it off my credit. That's understandable. Okay, so Jasmine, you're working three jobs. you're hustling again in this new good context of the word hustling in your career. You're at a career development program. You're getting better opportunities, but you're still working three jobs, and you're still not making enough where you feel confident about doing anything other than paying rent.

You're not even feeling confident with eating. How do you begin to progress towards a more sustainable financial position, maybe in late 2019 or in that time period? How does a snowball begin rolling on the positive trajectory we know you ended up on? You know, I felt like there was something that maybe some education that I didn't have a gap in my understanding about finances. So when cross-purpose, Karen Gensig shot out an invitation to cross-finance to alumni network. I was like, that's for me. I need that.

I need whatever gap that is, like I've got to figure out what that is. So when I started that program, Scott, you were there with a number of other coaches, ready to just help us learn more about, you know, getting out of debt and investing and the list goes on and on. But that's where I learned about the debt snowball. So during that time in the cross-finance program, not only did I work, you know, all those multiple jobs, I was selling burritos. I was delivering flowers. and I was selling items that I had in my house. My daughter participated in this with me where she would look online for free stuff and we'd go pick it up and then she'd do a garage sale and give me 10%, which was a joy for her.

And then, you know, not only that, but I was encouraged by Scott and Karen and Jeremy and Amanda. Those are all the coaches and the people involved in my particular cohort to really like believe in myself and apply for higher paying positions, like advocate and how to even saying like, you know, get a few offers in there so that you can say, well, this person's paying me this much, but I like it here, you know, or like framing, framing things in a way to where I can fight for my salary. I had never thought of that until Scott actually like brought it to my attention that I can, you know, fight for my salary. And that was the first time I was

like, oh, crap, I can do that. I don't have to just take it. anything because of my background because that's how I really like approached life and situations and jobs is oh I'm lucky to even have a job because I'm a felon. Now I believe oh they're lucky to have me because my experience is diverse. It's different and it's a gift and just like they're a gift to me. I'm a gift to them. We're on the same team here. You know, we're at equal playing field. So yeah. I love that. You just bought into the program. and every week came back with massive progress, did the homework. We taught Financial Peace University from Dave Ramsey in that program.

And you just did it. You said, I'm going to do the gazelle-like approach. And you crushed your debt and delivered flowers, made burritos. Every week, it was a new thing, a new tactic that you came up with. And it was just so awesome and rewarding to see all the, all the progress you made over that first, I guess, like, 18 months that we were working together. Could you walk us through with the, what your, how that progressed in terms of translating to paying down debts?

Do you have any, any milestones that you remember? Yeah. I remember to first, we first saved up to $1,000. And then we would get a meal like Scott would buy, like, I think you bought like noodles and company once or, you know, like, it'd just buy the whole class of meal. And then I think then we, then we got to like. talk to each other. And I remember there was one, one woman in class, her name's Louisa. We would be in competition with who pays down how much more or what is going on each week,

which was very healthy for us because it got us both out of debt. Having that healthy competition, like encouragement was really awesome. So that was like a gift to me and a super big help to be able to like, okay, now I can start kind of like knocking at this huge chunk of, debt because I had restitution like all over Denver in three different counties. So that was something that was a challenge because I'm not just paying one bill out of time. I'm paying multiple all around. But then I could after that happen, I could really start looking at student loans. And so with student loans, I kind of like started paying it and then applying for different programs like student loan forgiveness programs. And then when they forgave the rest of

my student loans, I was like, oh crap, I'm out of debt. And that was last year in October, August or October, one of those months, one of those fall months. It's so awesome. I believe when you started cross-purpose, you had 18,000 in restitution because I believe that it had been accruing interest. So it had actually grown a little bit in the years leading up in a year or two leading up to that. And I remember that, I remember that conversation. And I remember, I've said that to a couple of people over the years that I've worked with in finance, and none of them have ever hit me up on that offer except you. I was so delighted to get that email and call that you were, you had knocked it all out and there it was. So just congratulations on all that. And congratulations

on being debt free as of six months ago. It's just, it's so remarkable. Now that you're debt free, I understand you've crossed even more milestones in your financial journey. Would you mind sharing a couple of the recent developments in the past six months that have come about? Yeah. I recently bought a house in Denver. I painted it all on my own, well, with some help, but I was able to design it. And I was able to get a grant for 10K from this nonprofit called Shared Power, which helped me to paint my house and do some of those internal, like, cosmetic fixtures and purchase

a couch and stuff. And then I also regain custody of my daughter. So I love that. I saw your house was in progress and I saw it at the housewarming party. Would you mind sharing as well what you're doing with the house to help it produce some income and maybe how you financed it? Yeah. So I am financing my house through a land trust company, which is State Bridge, is actually the owner of my loan, and that's like a 2.5% interest rate. So that locks me in for 30 years at 2.5. Also, right now I am putting together my third bedroom in the house, and I'm going to be putting a six-month non-renewable lease for a single Christian woman with no kids, no pets, to come and run out the space for that six months. That way, I have six months to generally. I have six months to

generate some income. And then I have also six months to like host and invite people for the holidays to come stay because that is really important to me. So it's like I get to still generate money and also do what I really love to do, which is care well and love and being company of my family and people that I love during those holiday seasons. So that space is available in my home. That's awesome. Have you ever considered restarting your a cleaning company. I have. However, I don't ever want to work that hard again. That may sound super lazy. No. But honestly, I put in a lot of work on that company. And like, I just don't think I want to go there again. You couldn't pay the workers, which you want to pay. Like, especially this day and age, I don't think. I don't have to do research on it. But I don't see very many women who are like cleaning, cleaning. companies making more than like $22 an hour. So I wouldn't, I'd want to be able to create a

company that I can actually pay people to work for me like a livable wage and more than just livable, something that they can really grow off of and, you know, provide for their family. I don't want to employ people at the poverty line. I want to help them get here. So something that I've considered doing and that I'm working on a plan now is a consulting, company is so like business consulting, grant writing, things like that. That's something that I'm kind of starting to do on the side. And I'm learning a lot as I go. But that's, that's something that I'm passionate about. And I think it will generate more income. Grant writing can be huge. That's, that's, that's a really cool thing to get into. So, Jasmine, how has this all improved your

personal life? You know, I have to be honest. At first, going through all of this, it was really hard. I felt lonely. I struggled. You know, my relationships were strained. All those years of like hustle and bustle. I say all those years, but it was only like, only like three, three and a half, four years, I guess, of all that hustle and bustle. And it's like I'm addicted to it because I keep, I'm like, oh, more ideas, more things. Like I can develop this out and do this very well, right? But now it's like, okay, I have my daughter. I have other relationships in my life. And I'm like, I have time to spend with the people I love and care about and doing things that I love and care about. So my quality of life is increasing as my financial situation gets better. And over this journey to my daughter, I had her

every other week for a period of time. She was able to come with me to Monday night classes for financial peace or cross-finance and see what I was doing actively. So she had an understanding of like, oh my mom's going to be doing this this week oh this is what you know this is what we're going to be doing which now has made her like she's a financially aware and smart child she budgets her own allowance it's really cool to see um but um you know like and over time as like I took on just one position at cross purpose knowing like with the the idea and the heart that like I want to serve these people really well I don't want to work off of autopilot so I'm not going to take on extra jobs at this time.

Like my situation when my daughter improved and got better, she lives with me now. And not only does she live with me, like I have custody of her. Last year in March, I got in contact with my son again. And a little bit about my son, as he was adopted into a closed adoption while I was in prison because he didn't, he wasn't placed with a family member or with his father. He was placed with Colorado Child Protective Services.

And so I have tried for years and years to appeal, and I've sent motion after motion, and reached out. I'm only allowed to reach out once a year to social services to send cards or pictures or whatever. And I'd been doing that since being released from prison. And so the family finally reached out to me last year. We have been working together to communicate. And I got to meet him in person for the first time in December. So we were like working on creating, you know, working on creating like a relationship or our families.

We're not like co-parenting, but like we're there for each other and a part of his. And my daughter and I are a part of his life. So those relationships are just like flourishing and developing. And I couldn't be more grateful for like chasing stability and pain down debt and all of that. Like, I don't know if it'd be possible if I didn't decide to get money situated, right, along with all the other things that come with wellness, but it's a holistic part of, you know, it's a, the financial part of the holistic part of life. Yeah. And this was really, this was tough because this is a really hard situation, right? You didn't, you didn't have custody of

your daughter. You were able to, but as your position improved, you're able to, to, to get that. And that reunion was awesome to, to kind of see that unfold. I mean, I, I, I, I, I didn't, and see the actual reunion. But to see the relationship with you and your daughter growing was wonderful. And then I just like can only imagine how hard it is and all the different emotions and thoughts going into your son was adopted by another family. And it sounds like there was some skepticism or desire to slowly build the relationship at first. And just your commitment to improving your life in every direction, building a great set of relationships, your financial position, career stability, all that kind of stuff, I think to me has to have been a contributing factor

to that opening back up the window to your son's life to a large degree. And that was super powerful to see all these things, all these things deservedly starting to go right for Jasmine over the last three or four years. So that's awesome. So we have a paid off, we've paid off all our debt, except for the now new home mortgage. We've got, I presume, a really good credit score. We're earning a great. income. Now you're working for cross-purpose full-time. And I'd love to hear a little bit about that position and what you're doing there. And the relationships are coming back into your life. The most important relationships are coming back into your life and starting to be a bigger

and bigger part of your day-to-day. Is that right for the most part? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. A little bit more about like my position at cross-purpose. So I started in the alumni Department as the alumni career coach, moved into the alumni advancement manager. And then John Livingston and I, John Livingston is a staff member here at Cross Purpose. He's also a cross-purpose alumni, worked together to develop this recovery program called Live Different Recovery at Cross Purpose. It was like a part-time side gig for some extra money. And our hearts were in it. So it made it just like that much easier or better or more passionate about it. And we started the development processes March of last year.

In August of 2022, we lost the program. And from August to December, more than 400 people in Denver had attended our program. So we saw, or not we, but cross-purpose saw that it was a need in the community and that there would need to be somebody who ran it. So a position was created out of the birth of this, the development of this program, And it's just becoming more than, you know, this like coffee, sit around and talk. Like it became like a program was designed to become a program. And so now I'm the recovery programs manager at Cross Purpose, which is really fun.

It's awesome. I enjoy all the elements I get to do from like curriculum development to putting teams together to fundraising. You know, just coming in on a Friday night when we do our meetings, they're from 6 to 8, with a meal and child care, just seeing all the people smile and be together and hear about celebrations and challenges and just experience a change that happens and be able to be a part of it. And I went from being like super stressed out in my previous position to like I have so many responsibilities to now it's like I have these responsibilities but it's not as much. It's a gift.

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Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registeredagent.com slash money free. Jasmine, what's next for you? So I'm already kind of like working on the development of like what a consulting company could look like while kind of like getting my name out there at the same time. So that's something that's next. I don't know when it's going to pop. I think usually when things are in development like this a little bit,

sometimes they just happen and they happen pretty fast or, you know, I've never had something like this take that long, but I guess we'll see what happens there. But that's something that I'm excited about. And then I really want to get more involved in like real estate and investment and things like that as I continue my journey onward. I think real estate is a key to generational wealth and impacting our communities in a positive way. I mean, you have the power to do it in a negative or a positive way, right? So I would want to do it in a positive way. way and serve and serve families and people, individuals who deserve a second chance. So, yeah. Yeah, I'm excited, Jasmine. The compounding, compound interest is in working against you for almost all the time that I've known you. And now it's about to start working for you. And I'm very excited to see what that brings over the next three, five years. So that's awesome. Jasmine, we're going to give you any Bigger Pockets book that you would like to help you get started in real estate investing or all of them if you'd like them. Oh, thank you. Wow, what an honor.

What a gift. More gifts. Thank you. And Jasmine, you need a Bigger Pockets Pro membership. So when you are ready to get started on your real estate education journey, hit me up because I have bigger pockets. pocket superpowers. And I will give you a pro membership so you can unlock all the parts of the website and truly start learning. Okay. A challenge or maybe like gift, gift receives, challenge accepted. I don't know. There's so much higher than that. Thank you. Yes. In exchange for some advice,

what advice would you give someone who may not know where to start on their financial journey? I would say, first, tap into your resources. There are people around you that are hungry to teach you something. You can look online for some classes, you know, if you need the structure, right? If not, get your budget in order and figure out your debts, listing them from smallest to largest and knock those babies out. And then figure out, too, like, what's your B-Hag, right? What's your big, hairy, audacious goal that you want to do? For me, it was like, how am I going to be a homeowner? And being a homeowner was actually my

five-year plan after getting out of prison and I accomplished it in less than four. So just shy of less than four. But yeah, but it's like through those small things of, yeah, budgeting, having your budget in line and paying out that debt and being very mindful about what you do with your credit. Yep. I love it. And one of the things you said earlier that I, that stuck, stuck. Stubbush, out to me was, and I'm going to misquote you here, but you said something about how you needed opportunities and then to take those opportunities. How did you phrase that when you're coming out of prison and thinking about what you needed to do in order to be successful? Do you remember that? Yeah. When I got out of prison or anywhere in life, I like to call myself like an opportunist

because I'm always seeking something. I always have a goal. I always have goals set for myself, whether personally, professionally, financially, whatever they are. And I'm always seeking an opportunity to achieve the goal. And how you seek opportunities is you get out there. You connect with people. You network. You trust people.

You're open to learning because people love to teach other people things. I love to learn. And so when you approach somebody with a learning posture, people are definitely willing to share what they know. That's what I've learned before prison or if I didn't ever want have come to cross-purpose probably. I've never thought that people had like my best interest at heart, but over time I've learned like, hey, people just want to see other people succeed. And we can do that together. So relationships are, and networking are really key to tapping into opportunities.

I love that. Well, Jasmine, thank you so much for coming on and having the courage to share of the toughest beginning, I think, that we might have heard on the Bigger Pockets Money podcast in all of the 400 episodes that we've had. And the remarkable journey to get to where you are today as a homeowner who's debt-free and beginning to get started on an investing journey. So it's been a privilege to know you the last couple of years, and I'm very excited to see what comes next. And I'll be interested to hear with that five-year plan evolves to the next couple of months

now that you're in such a wonderful position and on such a great trajectory. Yeah. Well, thanks. And thank you for being willing to teach and have me here today. This is a, wow. I was like, when I first got the invitation, I was like, what? Really me? But yeah, such a gift.

So thank you. Where can people find out more about you and cross-purpose? Go to www. cross-purpose. work, that's where people can find out more about cross-purpose. And then about me, I have a LinkedIn profile or you can find my bio on the cross-purpose website or come visit LiveDiffure Recovery on a Friday night and you can meet me in person. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Really great to catch up. And I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and really appreciate

you shared in your story. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thanks, Scott. Thanks, Mindy. Thank you, Jasmine, for your time today and we'll talk to you soon. Holy cat Scott, that was an incredible story by Jasmine. I can't imagine what it was like to watch her go through all of that and just see her success over and over again. What a privilege. Yeah, it's been awesome to witness this from Jasmine. And it's just like, I'm just proud to know her. So it's awesome that she's able to accomplish all this.

And like I said, I can't wait to see what she achieves with the next five, 10 years. So she's the world's her oyster and she's really set herself up for success here. Yeah. And her mindset is absolutely her biggest asset. And she believes that she can. So she will. I think that's some smarmy quote somewhere. But it's so true in this case.

She absolutely believes that she can do it. And she just continues to find a way. And her consulting company, every faith that that is going to be a smashing success, just like she has been. One of the things that I think is, you know, obviously my passion, your passion, is helping people get better with their money. And particularly with the spin of using that, get that position of being better with your money to move towards financial freedom. And I think that that's so important for folks like Jasmine and folks that are in positions similar to where Jasmine was coming out of prison. Because when you're coming out of the prison system, you know, I can,

imagine, I could think that someone in that situation feels like, well, my life's over. The best I can do is get a very low-income job and live at or maybe just above the poverty line and maybe ever, if things were really well and I've blessed it for 40 years, aspire to the middle-class outcome, if I'm truly lucky. And that may not be attractive to some folks in that situation. And I think that it's why it's so important to highlight stories like Jasmans about how you can get out of debt, how you can become a homeowner, and how you can be ultimately, we can investing and become financially free, because that is such an attractive path forward. And obviously, life's not all about money. But we're a financial podcast. And I wonder if that outlook on personal finance,

this entrepreneurial mindset, this investing mindset, which is accessible to folks like Jasmine, as we just saw. Maybe that's something that that could inspire folks to direct the energy that as Jasmine's directed towards these kind of healthy pursuits and outcomes. So I'll just leave that as a thought starter and would love thoughts or opinions on that, perhaps in the Facebook group. That would be awesome. All right, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it. All right, that wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Indy Jensen saying Tootles Noodles. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kailen Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.