BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 421: Finance Friday: How to Retire in Your 40s by Building Multiple Income Streams

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

One of the best ways to boost your earning potential is with multiple income streams. With only so much time to dedicate to each stream, however, how do you maximize your total income without burning out? Today’s guest, Joe, is no stranger to the time constraints that come with managing multiple streams of income. With THREE promising income streams, he’s got his hands full! At 22, Joe launched an online coaching business that earned almost $30K per month at its peak. Unfortunately, working 90–100 hours each week quickly took its toll on Joe, his relationships, and his overall well-being. Unsure of how to juggle his online business, nine-to-five, and latest endeavor—investing in real estate—Joe now finds himself at a crossroads. Which avenues should he pursue going forward? Which income streams offer the highest earning potential? Which options afford him the most schedule flexibility? In this episode of the BiggerPockets Money podcast, you’ll get a full breakdown of Joe’s monthly income and expenses, as well as a glimpse of some of his long-term financial goals—including how he plans to revamp his online business, make real estate his next side hustle, and retire early. With help from Mindy and guest co-host Kyle Mast, Joe weighs the pros and cons of each income stream and gets a clearer vision of how to optimize his total income going forward! In This Episode We Cover Maximizing your earning potential without sacrificing work-life balance How to avoid burnout when scaling a profitable side hustle The importance of time management when you have multiple income streams What you need to know before you start investing in real estate How to use other income streams to fund your real estate investments What it really takes to retire early in your 40s  And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Mindy on BiggerPockets Kyle’s Website Clarity Financial Kyle’s Twitter Grab Scott’s Book, “Set for Life” Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Listen to The “On The Market” Podcast: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, BiggerPockets Money Moment Financial Freedom Through Multiple Streams of Income Building 61 Passive Streams of Income with Pat Hiban Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-421   Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email us: [e-mail]   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, Finance Friday edition, where we interview Joe Grinary and talk about profitable side hustles and creating a path to retire early. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen, and with me today is my CFP co-host, Kyle Mast. Good to be here, Mindy, and looking forward to the conversation. Kyle and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting.

Whether you want to retire early, travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own personal training business, be a police officer, will help you reach your financial goals, get the money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams. All right, Kyle, I am so excited to talk to Joe today. He has what we call really good problems because he is trying to decide between not just one great choice, not two great choices, but three pretty amazing choices that he has to figure out which one he wants to focus his time on. I had a great time talking to him. What did you

think? Yeah, I think he's got a lot of potential. You know, this guy is young and he has really set himself up well in a lot of different ways. And like you said, his biggest problem is trying to focus on where he needs to send his energy. And that's about it. We jumped in there's a little bit where we talk about the numbers. But other than that, it's mostly him trying to decide where to direct where he needs to go. Yes. I really think that he has a lot of potential.

And I am excited to see which option he chooses. Now I have to tell you what my attorney makes me say. The contents of this podcast are informational in nature and are not legal or taxes. advice and neither Kyle nor I nor Bigger Pockets is engaged in the provision of legal tax or any other advice. That's right. I said neither Kyle nor I. You should seek your own advice from professional advisors, including lawyers and accountants regarding the legal tax and financial implications of any financial decision you contemplate. And yes, I introduced him as my CFP co-host, but Kyle, please tell everybody how you are not their CFP. That's correct. I am a CFP. I do or have done

this professionally for a living, but I am not your CFP and I am not our guest CFP. I don't know your situation in detail or our guest situation in detail, but hopefully we're just offering some good ideas that people can run with in this show, not specific ones or specific advice. Yes. The whole purpose of the Finance Friday episode is just to give you a different perspective because sometimes when you're in the middle of a financial problem or a financial situation, it's hard to see any other ideas but the one that you have focused on. So that's why we created Finance Friday to give you an idea of what we would do if we were in your situation.

We have a new segment here, Kyle. I'm not sure if you've heard, the money moment where we share a money hack, tip, or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today's money moment is, are you looking to save money on prescriptions? Check out your local Costco. Not only does Costco have some of the lowest prescription prices in the United States, but you don't even need to purchase a Costco membership to reap these low prescription prices. You can just walk right in and get your own prescription filled at the Costco pharmacy.

It's great. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward.

It's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code,

pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch.com code pockets. I love Matt, said no one ever. Nobody starts a business thinking, you know what would make this more fun, calculating quarterly estimated taxes? But Somehow, every small business owner ends up doing it. Your dreams of creating, selling, and growing get replaced by late nights chasing receipts, juggling invoices,

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At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being. What makes Audible so powerful is its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive. massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable

for me over over 10 years. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money. Today's guest is a police officer with high earning potential and side hustle as a personal trainer. Personal finance wasn't a concern for him until roughly two years ago. And now he's looking to set himself up to retire at age 44. Today we're going to talk about car payments, site businesses, and real estate investing

while pursuing financial independence. Joe, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast. Hi, Mindy. How are you? I am super pumped to be on here today. I've been listening to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast for some time now, almost over, I'd say two years. So super pumped to actually have the opportunity to get on here today.

I'm super pumped to have you. We're going to pump you up. Do you remember that one? You're too young. Kyle, do you remember that one? A little bit, a little bit. Come on, guys. Who else was around in the 90s?

Nobody, nobody? Yeah, I was going to say, definitely passed by the time. I don't even think I was born yet. You probably weren't because you are right now 25. That's okay, though. It's a great-ish Saturday life skit from when they really weren't all that funny. So, okay, enough about that. Let's go back to you and let's look at your money story, your money finances.

Let's look at your breakdown. We've got a salary of 4346 per month that is broken down into 2485 gross from your side income and 4,600 gross from your police department income. Your expenses, which I will get into, we've got a truck payment of $448, a phone bill, $90, rent 800, groceries, 300 monthly car wash expense, $25. You know it rains, right? That's a free car wash, but it's only $25 a month. But still, like, I can't remember the last time I washed my car. Dining food beverages, $384.

Honestly, that's not bad for somebody who's into fitness. I'm sure you have to eat a lot of protein. 384 a month. I think that's doing pretty good. Gas, $245 a month. Amazon Prime. I love that you have that in your list just to keep track of the fact that that is an expense. 1628. Entertainment, $160 a month. Car insurance, $1,100 by annually. So that's $2,200 a year. I thought that sounded a little bit high. But then Kaylin, our producer, reassured us that nope, that's pretty much in line with what she pays to. Especially in New York State. Especially in New York State. definitely a little bit higher. So we've got a total of 2682 going out on 4,300 coming in. I think that's a nice delta. Now, here's where we have online business expenses that are separated out on my

document. I want to make sure they're separated out in your two different bank accounts. If you don't have them, you should. We've got a VA service for $600 a month. True Coach client training app, $59 a month. Loom recording, $10 a month. Amazon expenses, personal supplements, $79 a month. I want to know if those personal supplements are for you, are those really a business expense? That is something for your CPA to talk to you about. But just make sure that you are separating out business with business and personal with personal.

We've got a couple of other things. Your LA Fitness membership, I think would absolutely qualify as a business expense. meal plan app, probably a business expense, and then Captions Pro. So a total of $800 for business expenses that seems good, except for that $600 VA service that we're going to definitely talk about. Investments total $41,000 at age 25. I think that's awesome. I think there's a lot of 25-year-olds who don't have anything in the investment department. We have a pension. We have a high-yield savings account. We have a post-tax brokerage account, a Roth IRA, and a 457 deferred comp plan. Oh, Kyle, make a note. There's a 457 plan here that's available. I love the 457 plan. I don't have any

access to it, so I'm jealous. All right. Debt, credit card, zero. Hooray. And car loan, $21,216. I'm not going to give you a hooray for that. Although it is only 2.99%, it is still a car loan. And, and you a car loan. you are on payment number five of 60? Yep. Just bought it, unfortunately. Yeah. In my defense, I'll get to why I did what I did, but I'll save that for a little later. Kyle, didn't he say he's been listened to the show for two years?

He did. Yeah. He did. And then he still just bought a car. Okay. Well, I'm excited to hear about. We'll hear about it. Okay.

Your goal is to retire at age 44 with a 50% pension and income from other investments. I think your investment mix is great. You're not just focusing on retirement. You're not just focusing on pre-tax. You've got a nice mix around there. So, I mean, at $41,000 at age 25, there's few 25-year-olds that have like multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. So I think you're doing great on that front.

Let's look at your money story. How'd you get here? All right. Well, so first and foremost, I grew up in a, you know, middle class family. My parents, they grinded their whole life. My dad was a mortgage broker for, I'd probably say, over 25 years. My mom was a teacher. She just retired last year.

So super, super happy for her to enjoy retirement. But I grew up in a middle class family. They gave me everything that I needed and more. Super, super grateful for that. However, just like I listened to on this podcast a lot, you know, there's certain things that I didn't learn when I grew up as far as focusing on finances. You know, I wish I focused on them a little bit earlier than I started to. I do wish that, you know, I started working when I was 16, 17 years old. However, I never really saved.

You know, anything I made, I spent. I had a good time in college, to say the least. And then, you know, as I grew up a little bit older, I started my fitness business at the age of 22, had an in-person business first. And then COVID hit, forced me to close my doors. And then I moved everything online. Kind of a blessing in disguise because, you know, I did start crushing the online space. I had over 60 clients at one point paying me over 350 a month. So I was crushing it for a while.

I will just be blatantly honest with you. I traveled everywhere. Went to Hawaii. I lived it up. And now when I look back at it, and that's only two, three years ago, I kind of wish that I maybe live just a little bit more frugal. And I probably would be in a way better financial position than I currently am. However, you know, that's why I'm here. And, you know, just to learn from my mistakes and just to continue moving forward.

Okay, great. Yeah. And, you know, you discovered this at 25. You didn't discover this at 55 or, you know, much later. So don't beat yourself up too much. But yes, I think you said you had a really good point. If I would have just lived a little more frugally, I would be in a different position. We're not here to beat you up about pest.

One of the best things you can do when you're young is actually take a little bit more financial risk early on. Even if you mess up to learn those lessons early is a big deal. And sometimes those early financial risks turn into something big. That's something that being too conservative too early in your life when you can recover can kind of hurt you in the long run. So yeah, don't beat yourself up. Those lessons will serve you well in the long run. Absolutely.

Yeah. I mean, you know, there was a point in time where, you know, I was, listen, I was 23 making, you know, nearly almost 30 grand a month. And there was a time where I was like, this is more money than I. I could ever even imagine. And if I just had a little, and this was before I actually got into the bigger pocket money community, this was before I even knew what fire was, you know. And I do wish, you know, I mean, obviously I'm not here to beat myself up the whole episode,

but there is just a little bit of me where if I just saved even a little bit more or, you know, fueled investments a little bit earlier with all the money that was coming in, I definitely probably would be in a little bit of a different position currently. However, I do know what it takes now to build a business. I do know how to get there. It's just the matter of trying to properly manage my time while still having a social life because now I'm working full time as a police officer. So it's a little bit of a different. It's not like I have an insane amount of free time that I did, you know, just being an entrepreneur, if that makes sense. What were you doing that you were making $30,000 a month? So I still have it. But I had a close.

my doors for the online coaching business. So hold on, let me back this up a little bit, just so you guys understand a little bit more history. So in September, or sorry, October of 2021, that's when I got into the police academy. Given probably, I'd say, maybe two months into the police academy, my girlfriend actually got diagnosed with Hoskins lymphoma cancer. And that obviously rocked my world. Obviously, you know, it was, it was a very hard time while being in the academy getting treated like a two-year-old. So I had, you know, the business to a point where I was trying to sustain having the business while being in the academy.

And it was just too much pressure for me to try to continue the business and then also having, you know, trying to take care of her outside of any time that I had outside of the academy. So that's kind of why I'm starting from scratch because I really did fold my online business completely for almost nearly two years and now I'm really starting to pick it back up. So that's a little bit of like backstory as to why I couldn't sustain it to where it was. But as far as like the business model goes, you know, it's just an online coaching business where, you know, I have a Facebook community similar to, you know, money, similar to the group that you guys have.

And I have around, well, I had around 60 clients in there with, you know, training guides where, you know, I had them, you know, on a meal plan. I had to, I had them on a customized training program. And really just, I had a lot of accountability. So, you know, I would do weekly check-ins. And that's what that Loom recording software is for. I would send them a check-in for them every week. I'd get back to them with a video check-in going over their, you know, week to see how they did if there needs any update to macros, meal plan, training plan, et cetera. So it was a little bit just, it was more of a customized feel. And I never would have even imagined to think to charge what I did if I didn't hire a business coach. So I did hire a business coach. And I know you're not too crazy about those if I remember, right? But I did hire a business coach. And it did help me a lot. It helped me progress into, you know, I know what I can give people. And that's why I started to charge what I did. And, you know, it just got to where it was. I don't mind a business coach if they're providing value.

There's a lot of people out there that are like, I'll be your business. business coach. Well, what are you going to teach me? I would be a terrible business coach, but I can charge you $10,000 a month to tell you, do it. I mean, that's not helpful. That's the kind of business coach. I don't want you to hire. But this one clearly worked, and that's great. So what is stopping you from going back to those? Did you say there were 60 people? What is stopping you from going back to those 60 people and trying to reconnect with them? Nothing really. Like I said, I just started this business back up around, I'd say three months ago because the first month, I didn't really have a VA as far as I know we're going to talk about that in a little bit, but I didn't really have a VA. Now I'm hiring one again. There's nothing stopping me. I just haven't really went back to a lot of those leads or those past clients. So there's still a broad amount of exposure for me to grow and get back to that point. It's just I know for a fact going to take time, number one, and number two, with now being a, having a full-time job with the stress

of being a police officer, I have to kind of weigh out my options. It's like, do I really want to get back to the point of, you know, making that money? Is it that important? Yeah, I would love to increase the income, but at what expense? I mean, I was working nonstop all day, even though it was an online thing, it's just constant, you know, clients reaching out to me all day, every day, And to be fairly honest with you guys, I just simply don't have that time. If I'm on, you know, a domestic hole or whatever, Amy, people are reaching out to me on my phone. I can't, I can't exactly answer.

So hopefully that makes sense. Yeah. This is super good information. I'd like to kind of back us up just a little bit. And I want to jump forward in time to, you know, your goal that you gave us is to retire at 44 with a 50% pension. We can kind of talk about what that might mean. But when you, you know, the way you're talking about this. fitness business and then you have a full-time job as a police officer.

You know, when you're, so let's say you hit fire at 44. Are you a police officer or are you a fitness coach or are you both or like what's the ideal life look at that point? Because you've got some good things going on here. You know, you had a really good business that was built here. You maybe went, you know, too far too fast in it, but a lot of good businesses that build that way, that's what happens. And you kind of have an opportunity to rebuild it.

the way you want to. But now you also have this good career with potentially a good pension. I don't know what the pensions look like for sure in New York State. In any state, they're not what they used to be. So, you know, what's your why 44 and what does life look like at 44? And that might help us kind of dive into more of the direction that you should be going now. Yeah, totally get it. So the reason why I'm saying 44 is I can only retire in 20 years. that 20-year police mark. So I got on at 24. That's my goal is to retire as early as I possibly can to get out of law enforcement.

As much as I love the job, I mean, it's a great job. I'm not in the city by any means, so it's not NYPD or anything like that. It's actually a really good job. I love it. I have a great time out there meeting a lot of good people. However, with that being said, my end goal, okay, is to retire at 44 with the sole purpose of, you know, raising a family, enjoying my time with my kids. kids when I do have kids. And, you know, I do think will training be there? I think training and,

you know, health and fitness is just a part of me that will never go away. Do I think I'm going to be doing personal training to the magnitude at 44? Maybe, maybe not. I don't really have a plan in action of if I want to sustain a fitness business that long. But at the end of the day, I just really want to kind of transition out of law enforcement as early as I possibly can in 20 years. So I'm able to enjoy time with friends and family and pursue any other things that I want to pursue in life, if that makes sense. Yeah. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening.

That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going. And more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward. It's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth,

and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool. that makes money management simple.

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Is there any potential for part-time when you transition out of the police department or is it pretty much you got to, okay, yeah, you can do some part-time as you transition out if you needed. No, you can't do part-time as a police officer. Sorry, I misunderstood that. But I could 100% do, you know, part-time work anywhere else. Um, right. So whatever that is. Now, the thing that I kind of see myself doing, um, is real estate. Okay. Uh, that, that that's kind of why, you know, I want really want to kind of pick your brains about that today because that is something that's, I'm really getting interested in as far as the bigger pockets community. I'm sure you get a lot of people to come on here and say that they're interested in real estate. Um, I'm brand new to this. However, in 20 years from now, um, I want to be able to have a portfolio to where that could kind of be like, my part-time job, if that makes sense.

So I am going to give you a little bit of advice because that's what I do. Read the end and a homework assignment. Read up on the landlord tenant laws in the state of New Jersey because New Jersey is typically less expensive than New York State, but they have some pretty strict laws. such as, and I'm not investing in New Jersey because I read this once, and I was like, who, no, you can't not renew a lease. So let's say, Joe, you rent a Kyle, and he just throws rager parties all the time, and you don't want to renew his lease.

But he hasn't, he pays his rent on time, and he's, you know, in general, not violating the lease. He's just really annoying everybody around him. You can't tell him, sorry, Kyle, I'm not going to renew your lease. You have to continue renting to him for as long as he wants to rent or until he breaks the lease. Now, again, I'm not living there or investing there. I'm going to invite you to do some homework on this and make sure that the landlord tenant laws in the state of New Jersey are something that you wish to operate within. Being a cop, you kind of have to follow the laws.

They frown on that, I've heard. However, your neighboring state Pennsylvania has better laws that are more landlord-friendly. So I would invite you to also do homework on those laws before you buy rental properties and make sure you're investing in a state that actually has your best interest in mind. When do you think that I should be or I could be ready to get into the real estate game? I know from a financial standpoint, you know, you could kind of, I don't, I just don't want to make the wrong decision too early. So, you know, being only 25 with my current situation, with my rent right now and what I have, it's great. So do I kind of ride that out for a little bit and just fuel retirement accounts, save at the rate that I'm saving, and then get into

real estate at a future date? That's kind of my question. That's a tough question. If I go back to my own journey, I always think, I wish I would have started earlier. And if you'll talk to just about anybody, they'll tell you the same thing. That doesn't mean that you should jump in this year, but every year that you wait is a year that you can't house hack or buy a house, living it for a year, buy another one living it for a year, buy another one living it for a year. But again, in your situation, if you do the research that Mindy's talking about and you decide you don't want to invest in your home state, which can be a viable route, I'm in Oregon and I don't invest in Oregon. And that's just because it's very heavy tenant.

It's not as fair. I invest in fair states where what Mindy's talking about. I think the tenants have very, they definitely have rights and there are bad landlords out there, but it needs to be a fair system for both sides. So if that's where you come out and you decide to start the real estate journey of investing that way, like buying something out of state, then that means you need to have a little bit more of a war chest. You need to have a little bit more in savings for a bigger down payment because it's an investment property first off. You're not moving into it with a low down payment as a house hack or just living there and then turning it after a year into a rental and continuing that route.

So that might change your strategy a little bit. And that's not a bad strategy at all to build up a solid savings account for down payment and then expenses to when the first tenant moves out in three months and they trash the place and you got to put three grand into it to get the next tenant in. as soon as possible, not saying that's ever happened to me, ever. But you just have to be ready for those unexpected things. So I think that that would be, you could go either way. The other thing I wanted to jump back to is we're talking about this pension. You know, you're working 20 years for the police department. And I want to make sure that we're not making any assumptions.

You know, you want to leave your options open as much as possible. Like you want to make sure you don't assume that working 20 years at the police department is the best route for you. It could be and 20 years isn't that long, but you might get to year 10 and be like, it's long. You know, there's 10 more years. So I don't know what the 50% pension means. Can you explain that a little bit more? And then I would also caution you to make sure as the time goes on that you're always going to all those pension meetings that they have, that you're paying attention to legislation, anything that they're changing in the pension system is going to affect you heavily. And for me personally, I don't like having that much out of my control. You know,

that's, it's, it can be a really awesome thing. But if you can bring some more things into your control, including the real estate investing and some of your other investment accounts, too, but you just got to keep an eye on that. And thankfully, you're in an industry that the pensions are protected more heavily, probably than a lot of other public services. Yeah, but not as much still. You know, there's, there's tax dollars that want to be pulled for other places. It's just the way the world works. But yeah, so the 50% pension, what does that mean? Is that mean because you're taking it early? It's lower because you're not waiting as long? Or what is that? Correct. So essentially, just a little like, basically how it works in New York with the PFRS system,

which is police and fire retirement system. The way that the pensions work is it goes off, it used to be off your three. I think it's your last final three. years together, your final average salary, but now it's your five, your last five years final average salary. And basically what it goes off of is 50% off that. And we get capped at overtime. So we're only allowed to put in 17% of overtime per year toward that final average salary, if that makes sense. So let's say, which in the broad spectrum of things, I'll probably end up being around anywhere from 215 to 230 grand. by the time I retire, average salary from year 16 to year 20.

That's just with all of our special pay included, you know, everything. So we do have a very good contract as far as police goes because a lot of people you may think like that's absolutely insane, but we just do have a very good contract, which is one of the reasons why I chose to go with this department. So with that being said, let's say I have a $215,000 average. salary last five years, I make 50% of that for life. No state income tax. We do get federally taxed, but everything else we don't get taxed. But we do also, I think now it's starting to change to where we're going to have to pay into our health benefits still. The people that are retiring now in the tier two, because I'm tier six, tier two doesn't have to pay. And they also don't get a cap on

overtime. So some people, you know, one of my dad's friends just retire with a pension of like 190 grand a year. We're not going to get that, which is crazy because the inflation is going to get more expensive, obviously. And then we're getting, you know, the crap end of the stick to say the least, but at least we're still able to have somewhat of quote unquote security. I have that mindset, same as you, Kyle, where I, this is why I'm here today, right? Like, you know, I definitely, it's great to have a pension. It's great to have that at the 20-year mark. But if I can get to a point in, say, 12, 13 years where I'm like, wow, I'm crushing it in real estate. I have my retirement accounts fueled. My fiance is, well, my future fiance is going to be, you know, a physician

assistant. So she'll be making good money. And I just want to make sure that I don't just think about that pension at the end goal, if that makes sense. Do you know if it has an inflation adjustment, the pension each year? I don't know for a fact. That'd be something to check on. That's something that they've started to take away from some of the pensions. And that will really eat. I don't know for a fact.

But what I can say, though, is our base salary now, which I believe I sent you guys, I don't know if you have it, but our base salary at a year 11.5. So it takes a while to get to that top pay. But right now the base salary is $161,693. And that's just base salary. That's not another like 50 grand on top of it that we're getting from all of our rotational pay, our vacation pay, our sick pay. However, that contract is up in 24, 2024. So next year. And our PBA is trying to get higher pay because the city just got a good contract. So now they're hedging that for our county. I don't know where the pay is going to be at. But I know that they try to do their absolute best to try and hedge inflation by increasing. increasing salary a little bit, each contract. Okay. So your 50% pension will be approximately $9,000 a month.

And a few moments ago, you said that you were making $30,000 a month with personal training. So I don't know that many real estate investors who make $30,000 a month. What was your time commitment just to the personal training to make that $30,000 a month? That's a thing. You know, being only 22, 23, I didn't really have like a business mindset of, okay, this is how many hours I'm working a week. Kind of just went after it. And I will be blatantly honest with you guys.

You know, obviously this isn't a quote unquote relationship podcast. But, you know, it hurt my relationship to a certain extent. I was probably working 90 to 100 hours a week plus, if not more, just constantly on my phone answering people constantly. However, now that I have a little bit more of that mindset and awareness, you know, even if I go all in on the personal, you know, on that side hustle and I do get back to a point of that, which I would love to, I definitely will have a little bit more of a balance just because that's not important to me anymore. Like, I, listen, I know I'm young and I'm not afraid to work. I'm not afraid to put in the hours. But there's a point in time where, like, I still want to be able to enjoy. my life and traveling, like I'm in Hawaii, right? I didn't even really experience Hawaii

because I'm working 120 hours a week and I'm spending all the money to be there. And I barely did anything. So that's kind of like I'm trying to, you know what I'm like? There's a tradeoff there where the time aspect was a little bit too much. And I, in the midterm, that's why I kind of went toward the police because I kind of wanted to set schedule. And now in my head, I'm like, did I need to? Probably not. But I will say I enjoy the job. Okay. Well, I'm 50 and I'm just discovering this whole don't work every minute of every day thing. So you're ahead of me. Congratulations. I think it's I think it's really important to enjoy your life. You're only here once. You don't get to 90 and then come back again unless you believe in reincarnation. And good for you. I don't. So I'm just going to go with my original statement. that doesn't you don't get another chance so enjoy it while you're here and it is uh i wish i would

have learned this less than 25 years ago so i think another great homework assignment for you is to like outside of this show just think back to what services you were providing what you were doing when you were on your phone all the time and what you could pull back what you could still offer what you could pull back from that would make it a more normal job, a more normal side hustle. What could you outsource? Somebody always wants to talk on the phone? Great. Hire an assistant to talk on the phone.

Somebody always needs an email responded to. Well, can you respond between 8 and 8.30 in the morning? Like, does it always have to be instant? Does it always have to be you? What services can you provide that people found a lot of value in and what were you offering that if you pulled back, nobody would miss? Because when I think of online personal training, I think of you're going to say, okay, here's your workout. Like, here's your workout for the day or here's, you know, three workouts for the day. Great.

That doesn't take you all day long. And that's the kind of thing you can kind of cycle through. You create, even if you create a brand new one, that's 365. And then you start reusing them, you know, but you're probably not going to. to do 365 whole different ones. You know, there's definitely different business models in my head that I kind of went through as far as a personal training aspect goes. I do think that if I start going full force with this again, I don't know if I can

maintain the high ticket end as far as like $350, $400 a month that I was charging because it really does like take a lot of time and a lot of attention, right? Like each person is expecting a lot of attention. With that being said, if I did go down that route and I didn't go down, which I like the high ticket personal training atmosphere, just because I know that I'm getting you the results. The low ticket atmosphere, I truly feel like I'm scamming you. And I've had that kind of feeling before where if I've, you know, gave a $100 BS program

and then I never talked to the person again. I feel like I'm just taking the $100 and now I'm not actually giving you a service that you deserve, right? So that's kind of as far as that why I went down the high ticket route. However, it consumed me. You know, it was like all the time constantly being on these people. So I do think if I go down this route again and I get back to the point where I was, I've read like you said, I would have to take a look at, okay, well, how much expenses can I afford?

And, you know, what people can I hire and the team that I can build around me because there's just no way that I could do it myself with a full. time job, if that makes sense. Right. But $30,000 a month hires a lot of people and still leaves room for profit. Like one person can check in every morning. Michelle, your job is to email every one of these people or text them every single morning. How are you doing? Here's the seven things that I want you to say to them in a rotating basis. Boom. Now you don't have to check in with them in the morning. And if they've got a specific question, they can, you know, she can reach out to you. But now you're responding to three questions instead of 300 questions. Or, you know, you would, of course, know your business more than I would.

But look at what work, what did it. If you still have contact information for these people, offer them a free month or a free six months or like whatever works to really pick their brain and see what they found value and what they did it and what they would come back for versus what they wouldn't. I mean, $30,000 a month, that's a huge carrot that, that, uh, I think would be worth exploring. Like there's some potential here that you could do some pretty cool things. And I think you've made some mistakes as far as overworking, but everybody does that.

And you've done it early. You could read some books and solve that really quick. Like some of the things that Mindy talked about, just delegation. These are not rocket science things. They're in a thousand books. You pick one good author. You know, like Michael Hyatt is someone who does a coaching program, but he's written a whole bunch of books. You know, you pick, read five of his books and you change how you would run a

business. You know, there's there's some things here that I think you, rather than trying to figure out how do we cut expenses or how do I save a little bit more, you've got some big potential where you could make $30,000 a year, even on the side of your police job, I actually think you could do that within the next year or two if you delegate well. I think that's something that you could, you could have it both ways. And you were talking to earlier about. your potential goal of having time for family and things like that. That's a really, if you can build those two options at the same time in a sustainable way with intentionality to where you're not getting burnt out under both of them.

And it would take some work. You have to revisit, do some planning, review the business, make sure you're not getting too stretched out. But, you know, in 10 years, you could, you might have a big decision to make to like definitely jump away. And even faster than that, too, jump away from the police. department or even maybe sell the personal training business depending on what you made it to. But that opens up some options.

I'm trying to think of 44-year-old Joe and what 23, 24-year-old Joe was doing. And man, what he could do in the next 20 years. And, you know, just think about that. I want to make sure you're not thinking too small. I sense in here that you could think pretty big and do some pretty cool stuff. So, yeah, don't get to the numbers are important, but don't get too stuck in the little numbers. when there's these big opportunities and you're young and you've got some some good ambition that you could run with.

Absolutely. Yeah. I truly appreciate that. And it's funny because, you know, after joining the police department, there was like a, and I'm not exactly thinking like this anymore, but there was a certain period of time where I was like, all right, I'm set. You know, I have this job. Now I have a steady income.

And then I'm like, what am I doing? Like I do know that I have room for growth. And like you said, you know, if I could get out before the 20 years, mark and it makes sense logically, then I'll definitely do that. And ultimately, that is that that would be a great goal to get myself back on that entrepreneurial, you know, mindset as far as taking risks and, you know, growing, growing income. But it's, and it's, and I know you said something about, you know, we haven't really talked too much about increasing the savings rate and being more frugal. And it's funny you say that because literally probably about two hours before this podcast,

I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, I know I could cut expenses. I know I can, but I also know that I could just grow my income more. I know that that's like more of a goal of mine. Instead of just staying in a job and just trying to nickel and dime and save and save, well, I can just grow my income a little bit more and then I won't have to think like that, if that makes sense. Totally. And that's what Scott Trench, you know, he's on here usually.

he talks often about one of the best ways to build wealth is a business. It's one of the best ways to build it. And it's not about building wealth. So you just have a whole bunch of money. Well, I guess for some people it is maybe. But it's that security. And not many people are as capable or even have the desire to build a business. It's just not a part of who they are.

And there's nothing wrong with that. But then there's some people that it kind of comes naturally and it's kind of fun and it's enjoyable. And I feel like that's kind of you. And, you know, I wouldn't throw that away. It doesn't mean you have to go that route. You know, you can go different routes. But, I mean, there's some potential there.

And not everyone has it. And you never know life will throw things your way, which you've already found out with your girlfriend. You know, you don't know what five years from now life will look like. You might need to be done with your current job or you might need to be done with personal training. Maybe there's an injury or something. You have no idea. And that's the cool thing about the fire movement is that it's not. necessarily about to retire early. It's making the decisions now to be able to pivot if you need

to. And that's huge because life hits you. And if you're ready to pivot, it's awesome because that stress of the money piece is not there. You can then go to something else. There's already enough stress because of this life thing that happened to you, but at least money isn't a part of it. So the more things you can do now to build towards that, the better it'll be. Absolutely. I like, this is bigger pockets, but I like the personal training route almost more than the real estate route because of where you live, because it's so expensive, because of the landlord tenant laws in the states that are closest to you. And because the personal training thing is proven. And it is so, I don't want to say easy, but I see an easy way to delegate a lot of the time. I'm stuck aspects of it to others so that you're still making, I mean, oh, you're not making 30,000.

You're only making 15,000 to do basically nothing, not that you're not doing anything, but you're, you've delegated so much. I mean, I would take 15,000 doing nothing all day long versus, I don't know if you know this, but sometimes cops get shot at. Well, you know, and it's, yeah, and that's definitely like a time efficient thing. I definitely do think that's definitely more the route. There's definitely a little bit a part of me where it's like, and it's like a scarcity thing of like getting back to that point. I think I could do it.

I know I can actually. It's just the matter of how much time and effort that's going to take. And I'm not really scared of that. It's just the matter of, okay, how can I manage my time? And I know I've said this already, but it's like, how can I manage my time now that I have a full-time job? It was not like that beforehand. And then there's also a part of me that it's like, I know you said, like you like it better than real estate, but there's still a part of me that I still want some type of portfolio. Because I do know the power of real estate and I do know what it could do for you.

So I don't want to just have all my marbles in the personal training business because it's very volatile, extremely volatile. So what I mean by that is, you know, I can wake up the next morning and I can go from 60 clients to 30 because who knows, right? XYZ. And now I have half of my income split in half. So that's something to think about in my head as well for that. Even, you know, and that's like another thing I think as to why I was working so damn much back then because I was like I can't lose these clients. Right. So there's a lot of volatility there, which is why I.

do want to have some form of portfolio to support my family long term. And it's not an either or. It is, you know, you can do a little bit here and then move it, you know, make some money in personal training. And then, I mean, $30,000 a month is the number that I'm stuck on because you threw that out there so casually. Oh, I just make $30,000 a month. It's no big deal.

And the reason is is because I was literally, I did a mastermind with that business coach. I was like a small shark in the mastermind. I mean, there was people from a couple trainers from Canada, a couple trainers from California that were making, I mean, over 150 grand a month in coaching. So it's, you know, it's doable. So it's like when I say 30, it's not like I take it with a grand of soul. Like, of course, I knew I was doing very well for my age extremely well. But I knew that I was kind of like a small shark in a big tank there because there was,

there was people that were my age 24, 25, making five times the amount I was. So unsuccessful personal trainer makes $30,000 a month. So that tells me that there's room to improve and expand and grow this business. Yeah, I agree 100%. I think a lot of times you'll hear people say, I want to start this business. I have this idea. I want to do this. And it's like, oh, that's cool.

Don't quit your job. You know, like stay at your job. You haven't proven anything. The difference in your situation is, you've already done it. And that makes a big difference. Like if you ever watch Shark Tank, one of the things they do is like, oh, this is a cool idea. How much have you sold?

You know, like, have you done anything yet? Ideas are great, but until you implement them, it doesn't mean very much. And having a business that generates $100,000 a month in a $500,000 a house market means that you can buy a new house for cash every five months. Yeah. Your police job, while necessary and important, isn't generating that kind of cash and won't. ever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, exactly. Um, you know, it's, it's crazy because like having this conversation, I had the same conversation with my actual business coach, uh, two years. Now he's, he's crushing it. I haven't talked to him in a while, but, um, when I was making that,

that type of money, um, he kept telling me like, why are you going to, why are you going to go do the police? Like, like, why is it important to you? And, uh, you know, my, my, my, my main answer was, I always wanted to be a police officer, which is 100% true. And there's value to that. And then another thing in my head that I didn't really tell him was the security aspect, right? Of having that security, having that, you know, pension down the line, having those benefits, not having to pay out of pocket for these big expense benefits like health insurance and stuff like that. So there's pros and cons to it, but I do know that the big con is the fact that, you know, I wish I had the knowledge that I do now as far as, you know, changing careers and going to the police.

As much as I love it, I do know that it's maybe hindering my aspect or maybe hindering my growth as far as in other areas. And like Kyle said, and like you said, Mindy, I could definitely do them all at once. I just have to figure out how to allocate that. Yeah. I think sitting down and really taking your time, you know, we're not going to be able to do this in one hour, but sitting down and taking time to figure out what you can offer and what amount of your time it takes and what can be delegated out. I think you'll find some clear avenues to easy wins and some other opportunities that may

require partnerships. There are other 22-year-old personal trainers out there who would love the opportunity to partner with Joe and be out there on your team and doing that. this because they don't have the skills to start their own business or the bravery to start their own business. It's scary to start it. Totally agree. Awesome. Well, Joe, what is the name of this personal training business that you have? It's just my name. So J-G-Fitness. J-G-Fitness. But you can find me on Instagram at Joe Grinary Fit. If you can spell my last name, it's G-R-A-N-I-E-R-I. Awesome. And we will link to that in our show notes today.

So this was a super fun talk because you have a hard choice. Which one of these fabulous options do I choose? Which one of all of these fabulous options? I don't see a bad option for you. I see three really great choices. Real estate, police department, and fitness training. Plus, like, whatever things come out of that after, I mean, you're only 25. Look at you've got three great options at age 25.

I can't wait to see what you do when you're 30. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. Thank you for the opportunity. I really, really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you for your time today, Joe, and we'll talk to you soon. All right, Kyle, that was Joe and his fabulous set of problems. What did you think of the show? Oh, man, I'm excited for the guy. I mean, he just has a lot going for him. It was great to talk to him. And I just think he has such good problems. He built this business, kind of overdid it, got in over his head from a busyness standpoint, but learned a lot of good lessons. He's gone through a police academy. He's at a police department. He just has a lot going for him. And I'm excited to see where he's going to be in five or seven

years from now, honestly. Yeah, I am too. I think that having so many different great options is, it's great for him. It makes our job a little bit more difficult. Who, which one would I choose of these fabulous decisions? Sometimes it's really easy. Wow, I wouldn't do that at all. I'd do the other thing. It's so easy to make this decision because you're choosing between an awesome option or an okay option and a terrible option. But he's got three really great ones. So I think I would almost lean to, not almost, I would absolutely lean towards the personal training part because just the money. I mean, you could you could do that. You could set yourself up for life by just saving everything that comes in and then go focus on something else. 100%. I lean heavy towards the business thing

too, but it for the money for sure, but I prioritize flexibility in my life just about above anything else when it comes to professional stuff. And if you build your own business, that's one of the best ways you can ensure that your flexibility is at a level that you want it to be at. You work as many hours as you want, when you want, as long as you want during a certain season of your life, less during a different season of your life. This affords you that when you're working for somebody else, not so much. So that's the reason I would direct him and that. He's young. You know, you can build a business to be ready and built and look what you want it to look like when you have kids, when you have a family or other responsibilities.

It's just a great option. You know, flexibility is a wonderful F word. I'm glad you brought it up. And the, if we're talking about inflexible jobs, I think the police officer is about a wonderful F word. I'm as inflexible as you get because you are not a, nobody schedules a domestic disturbance. Oh, are you guys not available right now? I'll call back. They, you know, accidents happen when they happen. You can't get in a car accident and be like, oh, never mind. I'll stop bleeding and I'll just have you come back later.

That's literally the least flexible job there is. So not that I am encouraging him to leave the police department. he just graduated from the police academy. But, you know, things to think about for sure. Yeah. It's a great launching point. It's a great business. You know, he's got a full-time job where he can launch from and while he's trying to build something else if that's what he wants to do.

Yeah. Definitely stable. There is no shortage of need. He will always have hours and overtime too. All right, Kyle, should we get out of here? Let's do it. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Kyle Mast filling in for the missing Scott Trench, vacationing Scott Trench.

I don't even know where he is. And I am Mindy Jensen saying chop, chop, lollipop. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash Bigger Pockets Money. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench. Produced by Kaelan Bennett. Editing by Exodus Media.

writing by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.