BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 431: Women in Real Estate: Closing the “Investing Gap” and Getting Started

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

The gender investing gap is real, but it’s not due to women lacking capital. More often than not, women are saving their money rather than investing in real estate and allowing it to grow. As successful women in real estate, today’s guests are here to break down the reasons for this investing gap and how we can work together to close it. In this episode of the BiggerPockets Money podcast, we’re joined by none other than Liz Faircloth and Andresa Guidelli, co-hosts of our sister show, The Real Estate InvestHER Show. Like many novice investors, Liz and Andresa both discovered their love for real estate shortly after reading Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad Poor Dad. Years later, both have amassed their own large portfolios and are committed to helping more women dive into the world of real estate investing. Regardless of gender, there’s something for everyone to take away from this episode. Liz and Andresa share about the unique challenges women investors face today, building your real estate network, and how to find your investing partner. They also deliver some actionable next steps for women who are hesitant to invest, as well as some tips for men who want to be allies for women investors! In This Episode We Cover The global economic impact of women investing their capital The unique advantages and disadvantages women face when investing How to be an ally for women investors in your sphere of influence Actionable next steps for women looking to invest in real estate The importance of community when getting into real estate How to find the perfect partner for your real estate investments And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Mindy on BiggerPockets Scott's Instagram Grab Scott’s Book, “Set for Life” Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Listen to The Real Estate InvestHER Show Join The Real Estate InvestHER Community on Facebook Register for an Upcoming InvestHER Event Money Moment Download the FREE Partnership Question Guide Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-431   Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email us: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets of Money podcast where we interview Liz and Andresa from the Real Estate Invest Her podcast and talk about why women should be investing in real estate. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my punny co-host, Scott Trench. Pony. I don't know how to make a pun about puny, Mindy. That's not helpful. Wow. I finally stumped Scott. Woo-hoo. Well, Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary. less just for somebody else to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. That's right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business or learn about massive, multi-trillion dollar opportunities and challenges and problems in the market.

We'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards those dreams. Scott, I'm super excited to bring in Liz and Andresa for, from our sister show, our like truly sister show, the Real Estate Invest Her podcast. I love their name. I love them. I love their vision. I love their, what is the word I'm looking for? They're like business.

They really, truly want to encourage women to start investing in real estate. And, you know, every time I think about women investing in real estate, I'm reminded of this like race car quote from this one of the first women race car drivers who was getting a lot of hassle about being a women, a women race car driver. And she's like, what? I don't carry the car around the track. I just drive it. And, you know, women aren't carrying the houses. They're just buying them. They're just investing in them. You can do anything a man can do. You could do, you know, it's. And, and I think that brings up a good point, Scott. We're not here. The purpose of the show is not to like trash men as investors. It is to just encourage women to say you can do it too.

Yeah, I don't think there's anything in here that speaks against men participating in the market. It's just I think the theme today is women have a lot of wealth to invest and that is going to increase over time. And on average, women have very low confidence in their ability to invest that wealth. And that is, I think, the crux of the problem. And I think Liz and Andresa have a great plan or great framework. for how to combat that at large scale over the coming decade or two. So I think that's the major theme. And I think it's really interesting and really important.

And I think you're going to learn a lot today. Absolutely. We have a new segment of the Money Show called Money Moments, where we share a money hack, tip, or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today's money moment is, do you know that you can negotiate your bills? While bill negotiation doesn't have a 100% success rate, it's a lot more common than you would think. Many people have been able to successfully lower their bills simply by calling and asking. And if you don't have the time or energy to call yourself, you can even hire a bill negotiation

service to do it for you. Some of the bills that are open for negotiation are credit card interest, internet, cell phone, and insurance. I know I have personally been able to negotiate my insurance and my cable internet bill when the price jacked up after the initial teaser rate. was over. So definitely a great tip. If you don't like your bill, call them up and see if they're willing to negotiate. Great call, Mindy. Great call. There you go. You've redeemed yourself from the beginning. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their

full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going. And more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop.

Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. so every decision actually moves in Edle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year.

That's 50% off at monarch.com code pockets. I love Matt, said no one ever. Nobody starts a business thinking, you know what would make this more fun? Calculating quarterly estimated taxes? But somehow, every small business owner ends up doing it. Your dreams of creating, selling, and growing get replaced by late nights chasing receipts,

juggling invoices, Scott counts as a write-off. Change all that with Found. Found is a business banking platform built to take the pain out of managing money. It automatically tracks expenses, organizes invoices, and even preps you for tax season without you doing the heavy lifting. You can set aside money for business goals, control spending with virtual cards, and find tax write-offs you didn't even know existed.

It saves time, money, and probably a few years of life expectancy. Found has over 30,000 five-star reviews from owners who say, Sound makes everything easier, expenses, income, profits, taxes, invoices even. So reclaim your time and your sanity. Open a found account for free at found.com. That's fowundd.com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank, member FDIC.

Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business owners who have streamlined their finances with found. Audible has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade. I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audio book completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective,

and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being. What makes Audible so powerful as its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years. kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com

slash BP Money. Liz Faircloth and Adjessa Kedeli met in 2014 through BiggerPockets.com. They started meeting to support each other's businesses and eventually founded the real estate investor podcast, which supports women who are interested in getting into the world of investing. Liz and Andresa, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. We are so excited to talk to you today. Yes, we're so excited to be here. Hey, Scott. Hey, Mindy. Thanks so much for having us.

It's a pleasure. It's always fun to talk to you, ladies. Let's start off with a little bit of background. Liz, let's look at you first. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you are investing in? Sure. In terms of just my background in real estate investing and how I got going, you know, 18 years ago when I was 10 years old. Now, Matt and I actually invested in our first.

deal, a duplex. I was going to school for social work. Matt was an engineer, and we read Rich Dad Poor Dad, and it really shifted our thinking in our ways of just looking at the world, quite honestly. So we got our start by going to the local RIA meetings for over a year. We went to courses and workshops and boot camps at the time. That was well before Bigger Pockets was around. And we bought our first duplex. My father loaned us $30,000 and got our start. We met a contractor through the local Ria meeting and got going. which then led us to creating, really building a portfolio in New Jersey. And we got our start mostly in Trent in New Jersey and started buying multis,

getting involved in a lot of different focuses. And then many years later, finally got that we have to get focused and really went all in on multifamily and grew a multifamily business. So we have properties in four states, about 2,000 units of multifamily assets, mostly large multi and in class C neighborhoods, up and coming neighborhoods. And that's what we're mostly focused on now. We're doing some on the DeRosa side. We're doing some pivots because the multifamily space and how just still overpriced multifamily is. And so we're actually pivoting. We're still raising money. We're still building a fund. We're going to be diversifying in what we're putting that money into, which is going to be

more of like a lending arm where we're lending that money out as like hard money loans versus multifamily. because it's just overpriced. And it just fiscally doesn't make sense. And so we don't want to ever put our investors in deals that don't make sense. So anyway, that's one of the current projects of where we're pivoting in today's market. That's awesome. We've got to talk after this because I'm very interested in that space. And I think that's a very wise approach in the current market conditions.

So, Andresa, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what you invested? Yes, absolutely. I am an immigrant from Brazil who moved to the U.S. without knowing what real estate, the words real estate really meant. It was during a 101 meeting with my manager. I was doing door-to-door sales for Verizon. One of the best things I've ever done in my life, one of the hardest.

And I asked him for a book that will support increased my sales. And he gave me this purple book called Rich Dad for Dad. I was like, what is this about? And he's like, don't worry, read it, and we'll come back to it. And then I was like, what's happening here? Why I don't know about this entire world about real estate? Start getting a lot of knowledge and got started in 2011. We have my first house, was a primary pull a hillock out.

Got a lower appraiser. For those of you that are getting lower appraisal, appeal it. I appeal it already so many appraisers in my life. If I didn't have the gut to appeal that appraisal report, I would not have. got the money to invest on other deals that I started doing. Got to rehab properties, skilled to doing 15 properties at the same time, met list, we started doing new construction. I have experience in commercial development as well on the GP side of investing in apartment complexes. And now from the real estate investor company, we're looking to Italy, actually, to invest overseas.

that's where we are right now. One of the reasons why I was so excited to chat with both you guys is you had shared in a previous conversation some really interesting stats about really not the emergence, but the growth, the scale, a shift in capital in this country into the hands of women and how there's a need there to develop women in many cases as investors. Could you kind of share the magnitude of this of this challenge, this opportunity, this transition that's happening? Yeah, right now, just in the U.S. alone, we have $10 trillion of dollars of investable assets in the hands of women. In the next seven years, that's going to triple according to Morgan Stanley resource in 2021. So just that alone, we know that that shift is going to happen. Right now, we have a confidence gap. The women are not as confident to make investments. Therefore, they're going to have a lot of capital in their hands. But I think the most important thing for the audience, right, the audience, dear audience, that is listening.

They might be women. They might not be women. So if they're not, they're men, like, what do I have to do with? this. I think there is a potential for really understanding what are the needs of this demographic, what they're looking to do so you can partner up with that. So we got $10 trillion in household wealth that is controlled by women and invested by women today. And that's going to change dramatically over the next 10 years. What is driving that change? What is the shift that's happening? Well, one of the biggest things is that, you know, there's going to be aging men. And men are dying, right? So statistically, women outlive men by 68 years. We know that already. So the shift, and we see this in our community in real life, right? And I just want to speak to,

women are incredibly confident as like the CFO of their household, right? They have this confidence where they are managing everything like a CFO would. And then when it comes to investing, the confidence goes from 69% to 19%. It's like, boom, like down. So what is the difference, right? What is the difference? And so I just want to speak to that because women actually have the skills and knowledge. I think one of the reasons is obviously what we just said about, you know, that there's actually a demographic men, you know, in terms of aging and dying off. I also see, though, and I also see this. And again, I don't have a statistic in front of me. But women are kind of coming into their own, meaning, you know, whether they're in the 35, 45, 55,

65 age range, you're seeing women not reliant on a partner anymore. They're making decisions based on their own life and their own sort of goals. You see that shift happening and some of that generational baggage of, you know, spouse or not being a spouse or I can be complete by myself. That's, that's a shift. That's a recent shift. That's not something that was 40 years ago. So I think that's part of it, just this societal shift as well. So we've got, we're not saying that the wage gap or any of these other fundamental long-term problems have been solved here. That men are dying and the wealth is transferring to women is really a big catalyst for this $30 trillion shift of household wealth into the hands of women who, by and large, feel incapable

of investing it, or not comfortable investing at 19 percent. 68% are confident managing household budgets, but only 19% are comfortable investing those things. Why do you think that that is? Why do you think these folks are uncomfortable with investing? I would personally, I mean, there's probably a lot of reasons for it. I think one of the biggest things is when you think of investor, what do you think of? You think of a white man on Wall Street.

I mean, it's just, it's a stereotype, but it's still what people think of when they think investor. So I think shifting that stereotype, shifting that gender role where the traditional, what women do in a household and what men do in a household in a very traditional sense is still apparent. It's not like that went away and that's not existing. in our society today. So I think there's like a generational, I like to call it a baggage in a sense, where women are really letting go of some of that, Scott. And I think that's going to be opening up this, I don't want to say freedom, but the sense of like, I can do this. They have it in them, the skills, the experience, but it's a matter of community, you know, whether they're talking to

their neighbors, they're talking to women in the school board. Not every woman's investing in stocks or real estate or gold. We all know that because we all have neighborhoods. So how do we surround ourselves with other like-minded women, and there are a lot of them that are doing. And I think that's the big difference. You know, I always like to say, women don't go to the bathroom by themselves. They usually go with a friend. So if women are going to invest, they're going to invest with a friend. They're going to do it together. That's just the nature of a lot of women. They feel comfortable in community. I just want to add the psychology behind, right? We interview a woman this week. She's a doctor in neuroscience. And there is a lot of thought patterns.

that have been passed from generation to generation. And when it comes down to safety, it's really crucial that we have a safe place for women to come, raise their hand, ask their questions, and that goes from anything that we do, right? But I had a conversation this morning with a woman from Columbus, Ohio, that is opening up a bank geared towards women. And we had this,

this conversation and her thought process is not just for the service and products that they are building for women. It has to do even with the layout of the banking on making sure the women don't feel intimidated by going to a bank and having a simple conversation about a loan. It starts with like really one-on-one. So little by little when other women starts seeing themselves in others and being able to have a conversation and feel safe about it, I think that it is just going to grow the amount of women that confidently feel that they're able to invest in real estate and think control of their financial future. So women, I feel like we're generalizing, but we're not generalizing. I mean, we're 75% of us on this show are women. And I have experienced this,

talking to other women, I have seen them experience this as well. When they feel intimidated, they're just not going to. They're going to stand back. They're going to sit back. I think education, information is so key. I don't want to feel stupid. I don't want somebody to think I'm stupid. So I'm not going to open my mouth. I don't want somebody to judge me by the fact that I said something wrong or the fact that I, you know, got a fact incorrect. I mean, nobody listening to this show is like, Mindy's not like that at all. I'll jump in with both feet.

But, you know, how can we, you know, the confident jump in with both feet people, help educate women and help encourage women to ask these questions? Because I have found, for the most part, when I ask a question in a truly I don't know and I want to know setting, I get a great answer. How can we help people get more comfortable asking these questions and women specifically? Yeah, I think I wrote down the word perfectionism because I think in asking a question, you already feel like you're less than. And I think that comes up for a lot of women. Again, I'm being general, but there is a lot of women who, if I'm intimidated, ask the question,

I had this level of like, I got to know the answer almost. And it's that feeling. So it starts back even in school, Mindy. I mean, what do we, you know, when women, women and men are getting trained in what, to know all the answers. They get an A if they know all the answers. They can't ask their friend because that's called cheating, right? So there's a lot of societal pressure and even the statistics in MBA programs when they say, who raises their hand quicker, a man or a woman. There's statistics that show men do versus women because they don't want to say it until they're right. So that has to get broken up, even just the way we school our kids, like our educate our children, that failure is actually just, you know, you're fact-finding. It's not failure.

You know, there's a freedom in it. So I think it starts there and how we actually get acclimates and pats on the back because it's creating these perfectionism, and especially for, it could be men too, but it's certainly for women. And that prevents us from asking the questions because we feel stupid. We feel like we need to have the answers. So I think it starts there. And also, it also, like, to your point, Mindy, us asking the questions. and us being able to be, you know, to put ourselves out there when we don't know the answers is helpful. Because then women see themselves, oh, okay, yeah. She doesn't even know the answer. She's being vulnerable. Wow. She doesn't have all her, you know what, together. Okay. I don't either type of thing. And I can ask the question.

Okay. So women tend to have less confidence. But are they actually worse than men at investing? Yeah. It's the opposite, right? I love the leading question, Mindy. I love the question. Objection, leading the witness. No, yeah, exactly. No, there's a lot of research that shows that women outperform men by 40, you know, basis points, meaning there's a level of, because there's a level of conservative, if I'm going to be conservative and I'm going to be cautious and I'm going to make sure I know what I'm doing, you better know I'm going to make the right call. So I think there's a level of the cautiousness serves your decision making. And thus, it's usually in steering in the right way. So I think when women really really, act in their in their power you know the outcomes you know the outcomes can actually on you know be there for them in terms of higher higher results yeah i don't think there's anything wrong with being cautious you can make great investments cautiously and i would encourage you especially if you're just starting out be cautious don't aim for the home run grand slam home run aim for the base hit aim for the break even

And aim for the I'm learning because every time, I mean, you can read all the books you want, but you learn so much more by doing and even just breaking even. That is like a college level course in real estate investing just by breaking even. What we have found also is that small action steps for men or for women, for everybody that is listening, the more that you take action steps towards your goal, do you move the needle forward, more confident you are. So when we talk about, give you an example, right? People say, oh, you need to call realtors and call one.

Have the courage to call one person. That will, you will get that feeling. Your brain does not know how big or how small the action is. It doesn't really matter. So the more that you take small steps towards achieving your goal, more confident people get. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you

see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like

is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in Edle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all in one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com

for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch.com code pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works.

Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Just go to Indeed.com slash bigger pockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need.

When you want more, start your business with Northwest registered agent and get access to thousands of free guides, tools, and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business all in one place. Build your complete business identity with Northwest today. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They are the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S. With over 1,500 corporate guides who are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business. They give you the free tools you need after you form it,

like operating agreements, meeting minutes, and thousands of how-to guides that explain the complicated ins and outs of running a business. And with Northwest, privacy is automatic. They never sell your data, and all services are handled in-house, because privacy by default is their pledge to all customers. Visit Northwest Registeredagent.com slash money-free, and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registered

agent.com slash money free. So you, you know, we talked about, again, this, this market of $30 trillion. And we talked about how women are very, you know, unconfident by and large. And you lack confidence in investing by and large. Just to kind of extrapolate this out, how much wealth, you know, do we, like, what do we think the impacts at a, at a high level is going to happen here if women don't become more confident and invest, uh, uh, these assets on themselves? What does that mean for the women who control the,

this wealth. And what does it mean for the global economy if we're not able to solve this problem? Yeah, absolutely, Scott. I mean, you know, what ends up happening is that like, you think about this, that by increasing, you know, the economic participation, right, women really going in and not just managing the money, but investing the money, this actually could add 12 trillion to global growth. And this is probably by 2025. This is going to happen. So that's enormous, right? I want to back that up to that so many companies think women are a niche. And they're not a niche. They're not a niche at all. And we got that just a quick story. We got that a lot from our, we had our investor con in May. And we had 35 companies represented. And the companies that were there came up to us

and said, we have never gotten so many leads, qualified leads. And these women are following up with us quickly. And they actually want to talk to us and do deals with us. They said that's very unique in most So the conferences they go to. So there's this, not only is it a, you know, again, 12 trillion getting added to this global economy, but the seriousness, I think what's backing that up is the seriousness of women, like, when they're ready to go, they're ready to go. There's no like, oh, I'm going to think about this for 10 more years. We don't have that kind of time.

And we literally heard this from so many different sponsors saying, oh, my gosh, I didn't even know this could exist that people actually, A, want to talk to us, want to do deals with us, and we actually generate the most amount of leads we ever have at any other conference. Like, that's a testament, right, of the quality of what women are coming into. Okay. So besides the ready to hit the ground running, what mindset and skills do women have that benefit them as investors over their male counterparts? Well, how many minutes do we have?

We've got all the time in the world. I think women has an incredible ability to build report and that, how you translate that to real estate. You talk to sellers to buy it. You raise money for your deals. The trustworthness, it's there and then can back it up by your confidence on how you're presenting the numbers, the deals, and your vision. I think also good or bad, right? We know how to multitask.

We are able to build multi-million dollar companies under the radar. Yeah. And I wasn't phrasing that like, let's rip men apart. This is more like, let's encourage women. What other skills do they have? Like women, you think that you're not ready. You are ready. Here are things that you have.

You know, you are humble, but you're also really good at saving or you're more risk-averse. So you're going to make maybe safer or more conscious decisions about where you're investing. You're not going to just jump in with both feet, you know, blindly. And then, oh, now I've lost $20 billion. You know, it seems like there are a lot. of a lot of the women that I know are really doing a lot of thoughtful consideration when they when they are contemplating an investment other than you know i i think these are awesome advantages but other than you know the lack of confidence are there some potentially real disadvantages

that women face in when confronting investing for example i heard a story a while back about a woman was leading a real estate investing project and a contractor comes by and the contractors, you know, wanting to talk to the husband, you know, the decision maker, essentially, even though, of course, this woman was the decision maker in that case. Are there examples of that or things that, you know, go beyond that or deeper for investors that, women investors that make this a legitimate challenge that's not just about confidence, but about other things as well? Yeah.

I think that's still happening, you know, Scott. And it's happening, I know, and just that you experienced that a number of times. I experienced it not on a job site, but in other ways. right. And that's something we really need to do a better job at speaking up about and not just, you know, laughing it, laughing, you know, laughing it out. And I think people still, whenever there's any ism, whether it's sexism or racism or any ism, people need to speak up and they need to speak out about those sort of things. To assume that a contractor is talking to a man in the, and there's two, as a man and a woman, you know, not sexist. It's pretty simple. It's not like, oh, they don't know. No, it's called sex. And so I think we as individuals, men and women, can be part of the solution of really being able to speak up. I heard a couple of boys at the pool with my daughter. I have a daughter and a son.

We were playing at the pool. This was like a few weeks ago, right, when the pool opened. And he said, stop acting like a girl. I'm like, it's interesting, right? That's a bold, bold statement. And so the kid, like, ran away really quickly. And I was like, I really wanted to go up to him because he literally, he said it and left. Like, it was like a disappearing act.

But I'm like, would I've said something? How would I have said something to this eight-year-old boy? But it's a real thing, right? It's a real thing that we, so then I said, okay, I can't speak to him, but I'm going to speak to my kids. So I talk to them both. And Zach's like, wow, what do you, what does that mean, mom? What do you think that means?

Because he doesn't, he hasn't heard that before. I'm just using that as an example of how we teach our kids and how we're speaking about things. And when we see something not, you know, appropriate, we need to speak up or have a lesson in that. I don't, you know, if that makes sense. but I do think that's just a part of this. It sounds like overcoming that challenge is really comes back to confidence.

It's, you know, Liz, you're very confident. And so if that were to happen to you, you would be like, what do you, either this relationship is over or no, I'm the one in charge here. We're going to, we're going to proceed here as a professional. You're talking to the decision maker kind of. Is that kind of one of the ways to combat this from, from confidence? Is it really confidence? It comes back to that as the root issue or is there something more that women can do or should

be doing around that? I would say that my confidence did not prevent me from hearing this multiple and multiple times, right? And I joke around. I was like, no, I am not the realtor, not the architect. I'm the right-year checks. And I think that what Liz is saying is that we can do our job, right? As women, we can do our job to get the knowledge, to the confidence. But what is really crucial is also for our allies. What can you do? Number one, you can invite every woman that you know to step up, right, or your daughters, your wives, your spouse, or whatever that is. And the other thing that it's crucial is that when there are conversations where we are not present to the fan or to shine the light. So those quote-unquote many times locker room conversations, that's when we need the

allies to get uncomfortable. And I think lack of confidence is a real disadvantage that can be easily overlooked by people who are confident. I have a lot of confidence sometimes misplaced, but I don't, you know, let that stop me. But again, if you, if I say something stupid or I say something uninformed, I'm okay with somebody correcting me because then I'm going to learn. And, you know, hey, Liz, you can get a residential loan on a 40 unit apartment building.

Did you know that? And Liz would say, actually, you can't. That's a commercial product. You can only get a commercial loan for that. Oh, okay, I learned. It's okay to make a mistake like that. It is, you know, and that is how you learn. But some people will feel very slapped down and very.

corrected and oh my God, I'm so stupid. I'll never, ever, ever say anything again. And, you know, I don't think that the majority of people are correcting in, you know, harsh tones. But again, if somebody says, oh, my God, you're so stupid, how could you possibly think that? Then there's a person that has shown you, they are not somebody that you need to do business with. But I really like what you said, Andressa. I'm the one who writes the checks. Do you want to get paid? You're going to talk to me. I think confidence is a really big topic. in general because I think there are women who are very confident in their life, and they may not be confident in investing or confident in an area. So I don't think confidence is this blanket thing

where I'm confident or I'm not confident. I don't think it's as simple as that. So I think what's interesting, and people in general, I think the interesting part too, and there's something we recommend to women is like, how are you naturally confident? Like, where have you had these confident moments? We've all, as people, have confident moments where we just shine and we're like on top of the world. And then we forget those moments. And so really, really bringing people back in, like especially women, because that's who we serve, bring them back into that power. Because you have women who are confident in other areas and have had confident moments. All of us have.

So I don't think it's an, I'm confident or not. I don't think it's as linear as that. I think it's actually much deeper. And it's a reconnecting of the confidence. So I think this is awesome. I think that, you know, there's a whole bunch of problems that lead to, or of contributing factors that lead to, the problems that we just identified here in the market at a global sense, the $30 trillion of wealth managed, that will be managed by women who maybe are less confident.

But how do we translate that into actionable next steps for some of the women who may be listening to this podcast? How do they go about addressing this and taking the first steps towards increasing their confidence, directly making investments, or moving down that road? I think it starts with knowing one sense. right? Liz and I have done the work. How does that look like? Really understand what are your natural abilities. So taking all different types of tasks that you can possibly get in order for you to understand. I'm talking about predictive index, Colby test, different things. So you can really

understand what are your true natural abilities, your personality, your cognitive, how you make natural decisions and where are the gaps. So you can focus on your strengths and not your weaknesses. I would also add, you know, we heard it on a podcast. We interviewed this week about starting with, we always talk about our goals and, you know, what's our why and how important that is. I think for women, they have goals, but then they look at them and go, why do I have that goal? Was that goal handed to me, especially in our space of real estate, right? If it's not like a hundred unit, no one wants it, right? It is, there's a lot of, I think, a lot of, you know, goals that have been given to us or, or kind of, you know, especially in our space. So the key is,

like, what do I want it? Where do I want to be? You know, and that big picture, Scott, like literally five years, paint that picture for yourself. What does that look like? It doesn't have to be specific, but just, what does that look like for me? What would bring joy and happiness and passion to my life from a financial, abundant perspective? You know, what will that give me? Time, energy, what will that, you know, provide me emotionally get connected to that? Then you start to, people, I know the people who don't like division are like, well, that's, you know, BS, but it starts there. And then the next step is, what's one thing can I learn?

And the next step is once I start to learn something, and I read one book on short-term rentals by Avery Carl, Picker Pocket's Published, then what community can I join to ask them some questions about the book that I just read or the podcast I just listened to? The problem is that people have a dream and then they ask very general, random questions to people they haven't built a relationship with. How do I find 19 private lenders tomorrow? You know, I'm not sure how to answer that, right? I'm not sure how to help you.

So the key is get a little knowledge, figure out where you want to be, really get connected to it emotionally. Second, get some knowledge. Whether it's a book, a podcast, there's so much tremendous resources between our communities. And then thirdly, don't stop there. And that's why women, women stop there and they try to figure it out themselves. So get connected to a community. We have investor meetups across the country and there's an online community. There's a lot of ways to get connected.

You've got to get connected to people doing it. So it sounds like, you know, form a plan, right? It's the Cheshire cat quote, right? Which way should you go? How should you invest? Well, it depends on where you want to go. We have this problem over and over and over again in our finance Fridays here on bigger pockets of money, men and women, right?

what well well how should I invest well what do you want right on do you want the biggest pile of money in 50 years we got one approach do you want cash flow right now we got another approach do you want a hybrid we got a third how hands on do you want to be these are all questions that you know your visioning exercise can can help with and then it sounds like you guys have really emphasized the theme of community as being perhaps a stronger or more even more important um piece of the puzzle for women than it might be even for men, or at least maybe it's harder to access for women, perhaps, maybe in addition to or instead of that. Is that a good way to paraphrase kind of what you guys have said here?

Yeah, yeah, certainly. I think that what we're looking to really continue building is a board of directors. I'll give a simple example. One of the members of our community could not close on a deal two days before, right? So she had the courage to come and share what was going on, what was happening. We connected. All the women started saying, well, I have a lender in that area. Let's connect it here and there.

And it just was just really powerful. She was not alone in that situation any longer. So the stress and the pressure for her to try to figure out on her own was no longer there. And she was able to close that quick because of the power of research. sources and other people's experiences that were already there. So that's the goal here. You do your due diligence, you do your homework, and you tap into a community, bigger pockets community, the real estate investor community, your local people. You've got to be connected with them as a board of directors. You won't see your blind spots. And you will lose your hair

and your health. If you continue trying to figure out your challenges and how to achieve your goals by yourself. Why would you do that? Other people have done it. Tap into their experience so you can speed up. You get access and speed in one spot. Yeah, I think the big thing, too, when you're in a community and the power of it is when you have like this goal, okay, should I invest? You know, what's the, what's the investing landscape right now with today's economy, right? If you ask your uncle or your aunt who don't invest in real estate, they're going to probably have a strong opinion and maybe give you some good insight. But are they the right people to be asking? You know, and so we need to constantly ask ourselves,

if you want to run a marathon, ask someone who ran a marathon. I wouldn't ask someone who doesn't really run. I don't really want their advice, maybe not to do what not to do, but not to actually complete a marathon. So I think we constantly are asking ourselves, and you have to ask yourself, am I going to the source of who are going to be able to support me with what I need and how I need it? And I think that's the power of community, any community. Okay, with investing a team sport, do you have any recommendations for how women should be building their community or team so that they can start investing today? No, many people say that the partnerships is the way to go, right?

And we love that. But there's always a but, right? We have paid our share of mistakes and we don't want other people to do it. So we have prepared what we call a partnership guide is a free PDF that we can put it on the show notes. can go and download, which are questions that you should ask yourself in terms of your goals, what you want to do. And the partner asks the same thing. The main goal here is for you to align with other people that have the same values. And I diversify in experience what you bring to the

table, time. We always believe that not everybody will be a good match and better. do those, having those conversations, hard conversations, now before you shake hands and get into a deal. I think many people get into deals too quickly without considering. What is this partnership all about? I love that you said that. I would also add to it beyond skills and experience and obviously clarifying time availability, money availability, deal flow availability, right? There's a lot of assets that people bring to the table.

I think beyond that from a team perspective, it's really, really helpful when you're building something with someone. If you are more of like this relationship person and you love people and you like connecting with them, it's really helpful to have somebody who's not working closely with you, very task, very shrewd, very skeptical. You take each other off, but you need each other. And the other thing I'd say, too, from a personality perspective, is risk and caution. If you are a cautious person, have an accountability partner that's a risk taker. have somebody in your close circle who is a risk taker because you're going to push you in a way that you aren't going to push yourself. So I think that's really critical.

And then the task and the people. I also see it with logical people and very gut-feel people. So actually it helps you make decisions faster when you have a very different style helping you through the decision. And that's why community is so important. Because if you're going to surround yourself with a bunch of risk takers or a bunch of cautious people, you're going to be over-analizing a deal. And that deal's gone, right? Literally. And you're still analyzing and talking about it. Right. So you really need that diversity. Cannability partner, small circle, local group that can push you in a way that you just can't push yourself because you're not wired that way. So can you guys tell us a little bit about a special or particular program and platform that can help women find a lot of these solutions and any places that you suggest that they check out on that platform. I cannot help you with that at all. All right. Thank you guys so much. We had a wonderful conference.

But it's the real estate invest her community. And our podcast is probably published and distributed by bigger pockets. We have a Facebook community that women can really get and get connected quickly where they're just posting questions, getting support. We take spam down very quickly. We are very diligent. So it's that safe environment online. In person, we have over 50 meetups or women can get plugged into their local community. We have a number of them growing in Canada as well.

And so that's all on our website as well. And in terms of just getting connected in person, online, and just to support them around their goals. And once in the year, we have InvestorCon, which is our conference. Next year, we're going to Austin, Texas. And it's all about taking control of your financial future. That's going to be the theme for next year. And where can people find this partnership guideline document? So you're going to go to the real estate investherd.com.

slash giveaway. That's the real estate invest h.eer.com. Slash giveaway, yeah. So check that out. And guys, thank you so much for sharing this incredible overview of the market that I don't think a lot of people are aware of. And then the problems that underlie that. And thank you for forming a solution to those problems for women to access.

Really appreciate it. And I'm really grateful for all you do for the bigger. Pockets community at large and all of the women investors out there who have benefited from your programming. So thanks so much for joining us today. And we hope you have a wonderful rest of your week. Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Mindy. Thank you. Thank you, Liz and Dessa. We'll talk to you soon. All right, Scott, that was Liz and Andresa. I just love talking to them. Such a delight, such a wealth of information and so encouraging if you are a woman and you're listening to this episode and you are excited about real estate, head on over to the investor.

her group, talk to other women, see what they're all about. It's really a fantastic group. The podcast is amazing. I just love Liz and Address us so much in everything that they're doing. Yeah. I mean, these are just world-class investors, and it's great to chat with them, and they have a great window into this enormous problem that has been, that has been and will continue to grow over the next couple of years and decades. And I hope they make a big dent. in it and really solve this and help provide resources that address that one critical component of this whole chain, which is the confidence level of women who have large amounts of wealth to invest.

Yep. I think that confidence is key and I wish I had a magic, you know, fix to fix the confidence level. I think education and information is going to be a huge help in overcoming that hurdle. All right, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying can't stay Blue Day.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash Bigger Pockets Money. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench. Produced by Kaelan Bennett. Editing by Exodus Media. Copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.