BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 435: Ask Mindy and Scott: Early Retirement, Asking for a Raise, and Stolen Money

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast where we answer tough money questions from our audience, kind of like a financial advice column. Think of this as a different kind of Finance Friday. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my Has the All the Tough Money Answers co-host, Scott Trekked. Great to be here with my dear Mindy co-host, Mindy Jensen. Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else. to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. That's right.

Starting point is 00:00:35 Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business, or think through a variety of tough money problems. We'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams. Scott, I love our new segment of the show called Money Moments, where we share a money hack, tip or trick to help our listeners on their financial journey. Today's money moment is travel during the shoulder season. This is the time between the high season and the low season when tourism is typically at a low.

Starting point is 00:01:06 Points in spring and autumn normally fall under this category. You'll be able to snag deals before the location gets too busy. Do you have a money tip for us? Email money moment at biggerpockets.com. Scott, I really like this episode today. We don't have a guest. Instead, you and I are answering listener questions. In this episode, we answer questions regarding giving a friend a loan, financial aid payback, health care for early retirees, and how to ask for a raise.

Starting point is 00:01:35 Yeah. So, you know, we'd love your feedback on this, and we'd love to get your questions. So if you have a question you want to submit, go to biggerpockets.com slash money question, and you can either type one in or leave an audio question there. And we will potentially answer it on one of these shows. So thanks so much for everyone who did ask those questions and look forward to getting the next set. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look

Starting point is 00:02:12 backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code Pockes. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place,

Starting point is 00:02:40 so every decision actually moves in Edle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. It's 50% off at monarch.com code pockets. I love Matt, said no one ever. Nobody starts a business thinking, you know what would make this more fun? Calculating quarterly estimated taxes.

Starting point is 00:03:01 But somehow, every small business owner ends up doing it. Your dreams of creating, selling, and growing get replaced by late nights chasing receipts, juggling invoices, and wondering if that bad sushi lunch with Scott counts as a write-off. Change all that with Found. Found is a business banking platform built to take the pain out of managing money. It automatically tracks expenses, organizes invoices, and even preps you for tax season. without you doing the heavy lifting. You can set aside money for business goals,

Starting point is 00:03:24 control spending with virtual cards, and find tax write-offs you didn't even know existed. It saves time, money, and probably a few years of life expectancy. Found has over 30,000 five-star reviews from owners who say, Found makes everything easier, expenses, income, profits, taxes, invoices even. So reclaim your time and your sanity.

Starting point is 00:03:40 Open a found account for free at found.com. That's F-O-U-N-D dot com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank, member FDIC. Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business owners who have streamlined their finances with Found. Audible has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade. I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for. mental well-being. What makes Audible so powerful is its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get

Starting point is 00:04:25 Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP Money. You wrote in and asked us some of your hardest finance questions. We're keeping you anonymous today. Here's the first one. Dear Mindy and Scott, I was trying to be a good friend, but this person is financially crippling me.

Starting point is 00:04:59 My partner and I decided to take a loan out in our name to help a friend. They would pay back the loan over time since they couldn't qualify for one themselves. Payments came for the first few months and then stopped and we had to take over. long story short, we hit hard times due to loss of employment and are now living in a relative's basement. We are stuck with this loan. We've paid off most of the loan balance, but our credit scores are recovering from all the financial turmoil. We can't get a credit card and are in a tough spot. What should we do?

Starting point is 00:05:30 Declare bankruptcy, write it out, confront the friend, sincerely lost. Scott, I'm going to let you answer this one first because I have a lot of thoughts about this. Yeah. Okay. So let's list out a couple of facts. This was a loan to a friend and it was communicated as a loan. There are several months of payments that came in from the friend before they stopped. This person then had to assume the loan. They've paid, made payments against it. They've almost paid off the balance is what they said, but they're recovering from financial turmoil. This so-called friend borrowed money from them, stopped paying them back, and partially as a result of that, they are now living in a basement with relatives and are in a really tight spot. This person is no longer your friend. If they were your friend, they would have paid the money back and been on top of this,

Starting point is 00:06:24 if they had any means whatsoever, or they would have been communicating with you in such a way where you would have phrased this question differently. This person, you know, someone doesn't pay me, if I lend someone money, which I would not do, we'll talk about this in a second here, but which I would not do, and they didn't pay me back, that's a problem, right? And we'll be a problem in our relationship. But if someone doesn't pay me back and I now have to move my family into a friend's basement partially because of that, this person is out of my life. It's no longer a friendship. Like that's a major problem. They're clearly just not a friend. So what should we do here? First, you shouldn't declare bankruptcy. You said it yourself here, lost, that you have paid off

Starting point is 00:07:03 most of the loan balance. Keep attacking this problem. If you've paid off most of it, that means that there's only a little bit left. We don't know the relative sums here, but that's my conclusion from the way that this is phrased out. I would ride it out and begin attacking the problem. I would assume that your friend, so-called friend, is not going to pay you back, but I'd confront them anyways and maybe even consider legal action because you do have a history of them paying you back for parts of that loan, which I think implies a contract. To avoid the situation in the future, one, if you're going to lend to somebody, call it a business relationship. It's a loan. It's not a gift. It's a loan. Have a contract in place and have mechanisms and

Starting point is 00:07:46 collateral to collect on that. If you don't want to damage your relationship or want to value relationships, don't lend money to friends and family. Instead, gift money. I think Mind, you have some good frameworks on that one, but I'll let you go and take it from here. Yeah. I really think that this particular listener is trying to salvage the relationship. think you had a really good point, Scott. This friend isn't a friend. A friend doesn't make you chase them down for the loan that you generously took out for them. You're helping them out and they're taking advantage of you. I don't think this is a declare bankruptcy sort of situation, but we don't know how much the loan is for their income, et cetera. I absolutely think you should

Starting point is 00:08:36 confront the friend from the standpoint of this isn't a friend anymore. You should confront this person and say, I lent you money when you were in a bind and you have put me in a bind by not giving me the money back on the agreed upon schedule. Now, I'm wondering if they have something in writing, saying that they agreed to these payments on this time schedule and everything will be paid back by this in such time. I'm wondering if they could sue this person. I mean, I would certainly look into that, especially depending on the amount of the loan. If it's a $500 loan, it's not worth taking them to court, maybe like small claims court.

Starting point is 00:09:21 If it's $5,000, $50,000, that's definitely worth pursuing. Look up your local small claims court limits because in many cases you can just represent yourself. You save on attorney fees. And it's a pretty straightforward thing. I borrowed money for them. They were supposed to pay me back and they didn't. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:40 And I think you got a real case here, depending on your location, because they paid you back for the first few months. They made payments. There's a history there. Like, what are they going to say? No, that was just doing that out of the goodness of my heart here. Yes. I think there's going to be a track record here, depending on what documentation you have.

Starting point is 00:09:58 You should have had a contract in place and a document that's been signed. But I wonder if you'll be able to find enough that implies or explicitly states it in text messages or emails or whatever it is that you use to communicate with this friend. Exactly. I think that we can't really beat them up for not having the contract. But for anybody listening, considering lending money to a friend or family member, my first piece of advice is don't. And my second piece of advice is if you're not going to take my first piece of advice, at least get a contract. One other thing that I think is really interesting, they couldn't qualify for a little. loan themselves. If somebody, a lender who has large pockets and deep pockets and bigger pockets

Starting point is 00:10:41 knows how to vet people, bigger pockets than you, and knows how to vet people for a loan, and it's like that's their job and they won't give this person a loan, why are you giving this person a loan? I think that, you know, Mindy, I have one last question here. You know, if this person is not paying lost back here, do you think that lost should alert that person's friends and family to the situation so that those other folks don't continue to lend this person who's not paying people back additional money? Or do you think that's a step too far? Ooh, that might be a step too far, again, depending on what the loan was for.

Starting point is 00:11:23 what could happen, Scott, is that you borrowed $50,000 for me and stopped paying me back, then I call up your mom and I'm like, hey, Mrs. Scott, or Mrs. Trench, hey, Mrs. Trench, Scott borrowed $50,000 to me and he didn't pay back. She could say, you know, Scott borrowed $50,000 for me and didn't pay back. And then your sister calls up and says, yeah, he didn't pay me back either. And then all of a sudden, everybody's like, why does that? Scott have $450,000 of hours and he's not paying anybody back. That could be a bigger issue too.

Starting point is 00:11:59 Yeah, something to think about. I don't know. I probably would agree with you, but a part of me in that situation would really want to. So be interesting to see how lost shoes is there. Okay, let's move on to the next question here. Dear Scott and Mindy, what is the least bad way? I love that question, a little bit of phrasing of that, least bad way to access my house, my homes, home equity to pay off my credit card balance.

Starting point is 00:12:23 I own a home that is worth $600,000 and only owe $150,000 on it with a 3.4% interest rate. Given today's interest rate, what is the best way to access my home equity to pay this off? Best M. All right. Scott, I would not be looking at home equity. Of course, we don't know how much credit card debt there is. I am assuming that it is significant enough that you need to get a line of credit or a home equity loan. I would definitely not refinance your property because you have the 3.4% interest rate.

Starting point is 00:12:58 A he lock, a home equity line of credit, is basically borrowing against that $450,000 that they have sitting there in their equity. You borrow whatever you need. Let's call it $50,000 in credit card debt. You borrow $50,000 from your credit card, or I'm sorry, from your home equity and you put it towards your credit card. Then you cut up your credit cards because if you can't figure out how to stop spending money, you're going to find yourself in this exact same position with credit card debt and now a $50,000 He lock loan to pay to. He lock rates are like 8% right now. And we're recording this in July, 2023. Your mileage may vary. I don't have an exact quote. But that's a high interest rate compared to his mortgage interest rate. It is a low interest rate compared to

Starting point is 00:13:51 credit card interest rates. Another way to do this, Scott, that I was thinking of because he's asking about accessing his home equity. I answered that question first, but another way might be to open up another credit card and balance transfer. This works if you have a smaller amount. I don't know that you can get a credit card with a $50,000 limit and then balance transfer all $50,000. But a lot of times credit cards will have an introductory APR of 0% for 18 months, 12 months, something like that. That's a great way to pay down a lot of money without paying interest. Then you can play the balance transfer game. Take the remaining balance, transfer to a new card.

Starting point is 00:14:37 Use that introductory time period to make lots of payments interest free and then transfer again. Again, we don't know what the amount is. If it is more than like $10,000, the HELOC might be the way to go. But then I would aggressively pay down the first, the HELOC as soon as possible. Yeah, I think those are great suggestions. I think, you know, what is the least bad way to access your home equity to pay off the credit card bounds, a home equity line of credit? But there are less bad options than accessing your home equity as Mindy just, just

Starting point is 00:15:14 alluded to, like potentially playing the balance transfer game if you can get an intro rate of 0%, for example, on a new card. Either way, credit card debt is an emergency. It's the number one priority in your financial life to take care of after, you know, a very small emergency balance of $1,000 or two on a regular basis. And because he lock rates are so high and so unattractive right now at that like 8, 9% that Mindy mentioned, you got to attack this problem. So regardless of how you refinance it, whether it's a balance transfer to a new credit card,

Starting point is 00:15:49 whether it's a he lock or if you have other assets like a stock market balance, you can borrow against that, for example, perhaps at a three to four percent interest rate might be a little higher. Those would be better options. But if you have to do it, take out a helock. If those options are available, take out a helock and attack this thing because eight, nine percent interest debt is about as good a return as you're going to get guaranteed after tax. in life. So go after it. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look

Starting point is 00:16:19 at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going and more importantly where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward. It's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch

Starting point is 00:16:52 subscription with the code Pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves an needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code Pock at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch.com. code pockets.

Starting point is 00:17:16 You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works.

Starting point is 00:17:38 Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed.

Starting point is 00:17:57 And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Just go to Indeed.com slash bigger pockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash bigger pockets. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, indeed, is all you need. When you want more, start your business with Northwest Registered Agent and get access to thousands of free guides, tools, and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business

Starting point is 00:18:24 all in one place. Build your complete business identity with Northwest today. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S. with over 1,500 corporate guides who are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business. They give you the free tools you need after you form it, like operating agreements, meeting minutes, and thousands of how-to guides that explain the complicated ins and outs of running a business. And with Northwest, privacy is automatic. They never sell your data and all services are

Starting point is 00:19:01 handled in-house because privacy by default is their pledge to all customers. Visit Northwest registeredagent.com slash money-free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest West Registered Agent at Northwest Registeredagent.com slash money free. Where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Any day now? Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be.

Starting point is 00:19:31 This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila.orgia. Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in-store. store and online, though some may vary. Should we move on to another question here? Yes. Dear Mindy and Scott, I didn't realize this at the time, but my father took out a parent plus loan when I went to college to help me pay for it. Financial aid was really confusing, and I didn't grow up in a financially

Starting point is 00:20:03 savvy household. I assumed that all debt was in my name, but it turns out that he's carrying debt for my education. He would like me to help pay it back, but I already, have $29,000 worth of debt in my name from school. I know I'm not legally obligated, but is there a right thing to do here? Sincerely in debt. Okay, I'm going to go first on this one, Scott. Yes, there's a right thing to do. It's your education, and if your father is asking you to help him pay it back, you should help him pay it back. And yes, you have $29,000 worth of student debt in your own name. How much does he have in his name? Of course, we need more information from this question. But if it's in your name, if it's, if it's for your education, I think you should

Starting point is 00:20:50 have a further conversation with your dad. What sort of help does he want paying it back? Does he want you to pay the whole thing back? Does he want you to pay half of it back? Does he want monthly payments? This is a conversation to have with your dad and come up with something. I mean, look at your financial situation. Oh, I have an extra $50,000 every month. You should help your dad pay off this loan. Oh, I'm struggling and I'm barely paycheck to paycheck. That's something you can help explain to your dad. I can't help you right now, but I can help in the future. Or why don't we set up a payment plan in a few years?

Starting point is 00:21:25 But I think if ultimately the college debt was for your education, you should do everything you can to help pay him back. I think that's right. And I'm speaking from a position of privilege here where my parents paid for my college and paid off, you know, Heelock, I think. to pay for a lot of that. I, that puts me in an entitled position here. I think, though, that if I was in this person's shoes, yeah, I would, I would have a conversation with my dad and say, hey, absolutely, here's my situation, here's where I'm at, here's what I can afford, what do we think here is reasonable.

Starting point is 00:22:06 And I think that, you know, coming at it from that mindset of I'm going to be very positive and proactive about this and ready to grind to pay off the student loan debt, perhaps will result in dad then helping to do the best job he's able to help pay off that student loan debt. I think the other option there is really a relationship killer or potential huge, you know, huge thing in the relationship. And so this person would need to be ready to cut off their parent. in this case who basically donated to their college education would be the other alternative there to not approaching this in a healthy, proactive way of attempting to participate and paying off some of that debt.

Starting point is 00:22:52 Yeah, I'm going to assume that they have at least a cordial relationship and say this is a conversation you need to have with your dad and see what sort of help he wants and what timeline he wants it in, see if there's a way to come to an amicable solution. Mindy, a tough question here, but thinking about this, Zoom in 18 years ahead, if I were in the same situation with my now nine-month-old daughter, I think that as a parent, and again, I get that I'm from position of privilege here and having a strong financial position at the time saying this, but I think that if I was going to take out debt to pay for children's college education, that I would probably own that debt as well. So I think that there's like kind of that I almost have like mixed ownership. perspective here of like dad probably should have owned in this case some of that or gone into it

Starting point is 00:23:45 because you can't lend money to somebody in a family setting you got to think of it as a gift we just talked about that earlier and this person needs to recognize that even though maybe that's what dad maybe could have brought into the situation they need to also be accountable for the student loan balance that dad assumed in this case so it's kind of like that mutual accountability if you will, that I think would be really healthy here. And I think if both parties attack from that perspective, they're going to have a much healthier relationship. I bet you, though, that both parties will not,

Starting point is 00:24:18 or that it might be very difficult for both parties to embrace that viewpoint. That's a really hard spot. And it's a couple years of grind. We don't even know how much the balance the father has. We knew that there's $29,000 of debt for our in-debt friend here. Yeah, it's a tough situation. all the way around. And, you know, if I have this mantra, if you want to know the answer to a question,

Starting point is 00:24:44 ask the question. If you want somebody to know something that you're thinking, you have to tell them. Quick, Scott, what am I thinking right now? You have no idea because you can't read my mind. Just like I have no idea. Well, I can read your mind, Scott. You're saying, wow, I'm so privileged to be able to record a podcast with Mindy. She's so awesome.

Starting point is 00:25:03 Yep. See, I can read minds. But if I want you to know what I'm thinking, I have to tell you. So I think the answer to most of these is going to be have a conversation. Okay, let's go on to the next question here. Dear Mindy and Scott, I was curious about how early retirees address health care. Without a W-2 job, health care is really expensive in the U.S. How do you plan for taking into account the 4% rule?

Starting point is 00:25:24 Do you keep a minimum part-time job to pay for it? I want to get to fire, but I'm scared that I won't have enough. Thanks, R. This is a super fun question, she said ironically. This is actually a very interesting question, which brings up some ethics. So the United States healthcare system is awful. Everybody can agree on that. It's overpriced.

Starting point is 00:25:46 And the healthcare system pays lobbyists to go to Congress and encourage them to write laws that are in favor of the health care system. The regular person is not paying lobbyists to go to Congress to encourage Congress people to look after them, which is kind of their job, but we're not getting into politics here. So we have expensive health care. There is a program in place where if your income is low, you get government provided or government subsidized health care. If your income is low enough, you're on Medicare.

Starting point is 00:26:27 If your income is not low enough to qualify for Medicare, but still super, super low, you can get the maximum subsidy from the government so that your health care out of pocket costs are super low. I have a friend who is getting health care on the exchange. He has figured out a way to manipulate his income because he's retired. He is manipulate. And I don't like the word manipulate. What's another word for manipulate, Scott? I realize he's realizing a certain amount of income. Yes, he is realizing a certain amount of income through some odd jobs, which would keep him on Medicare. But he doesn't want to be on Medicare.

Starting point is 00:27:16 He doesn't want to take a position of Medicare from somebody who actually needs it. So he does Roth conversions from his 401K to increase his income so that he is not on Medicare. But still getting the maximum subsidies. Some people think that this is unethical. I think it's unethical that they are hiring lobbyists to go encourage Congress to pass laws that are not in favor of the American people. But I'll step off my soapbox there. So his out-of-pocket monthly cost is approximately $300 a month, qualifying for the maximum subsidies on the exchange while staying off Medicare. And I think that's a pretty good answer.

Starting point is 00:28:05 That's something that you're going to have to account for. That is a line item in your budget and should be. You should plan to keep that line item and increase it every year because it's going to increase every year. But that's just another cost. Same with I have a chronic medical condition and I have very expensive insurance, not insurance, it's medication that I have to spend. buy every single year, it's $11,000.

Starting point is 00:28:34 Great. Then that's a line item in your budget that you have to account for. And your fire number will be different than somebody else's fire item, fire budget, who is not operating under those same conditions. Just like your fire number is different than my fire number because you have a different lifestyle that I do, Scott. Yeah. I think that's a fantastic answer, Mindy.

Starting point is 00:28:56 And I'll just provide another example here to reinforce your point. If I have a million dollars in index funds, that might produce a $20,000, maybe $16,000, $17,000 in dividend income, right? If I don't sell any in a year, that's my income, right? If I have another million dollars in paid off real estate on top of that, that might generate $50,000 in cash flow, but at no taxable income because the depreciation benefits and the other tax items there that will offset that. cash flow. So that's $67,000 in cash to spend, but $17,000 in taxable income. You're qualified for

Starting point is 00:29:38 Medicare. I agree that there's an ethics problem with that, right? Medicare is not designed to, the income limits of Medicare are not there to be harnessed by multimillionaire early retirees who could be working jobs, right? Each person will have to think about that for themselves. I love your friend's approach of realizing enough income to help them qualify for another package there. And you have a spectrum of choices along there. You've got Medicare. That's an option, not one that I would take personally because I'd personally have an ethical dilemma with it. You've got the option that your friend shows of realizing enough income on top of that to qualify for other items on the exchange.

Starting point is 00:30:21 You've got the option of realizing fatfire and generating $100 plus thousand dollars a year in taxable income. spending it and just spending more on health care and factoring that into your finance five plan and last one option that you didn't refer to Mindy but I think that I'll put on a table is these health share programs so these are not insurance but they're kind of alternatives to insurance they have different rules they're relatively new and they're a creative solution in the space and we've covered them in past episodes of Bigger Pockets money they're not going to be for everyone they're not insurance but they work very well for a number of

Starting point is 00:30:57 folks and a lot of the people who are in those health sharing programs swear by them. A lot of other people are put off by those programs because they may require you, for example, to abide by Christian values in a Christian health sharing plan or lifestyle choices, certain lifestyle choices that may not be as inclusive as some people would want for other ones. But they are an option out there. And so there are several good potential paths here, a potential paths that are less bad than paying the maximum price for a high income earner for health insurance on the exchange. Yep, I agree with that. I believe my friend chose the exchange because he isn't a religious person and doesn't feel

Starting point is 00:31:41 comfortable saying that he is in order to get in with that religious organization's health sharing. Again, there's some ethical dilemmas, and you have to choose what's going to sit right with you. One last thing before we move on here, those health sharing programs, some folks pair something like that with, what's it called, like travel for medical tourism. Medical tourism, that's right. Yeah, you go to Mexico to get the operation done or Europe or whatever, and the health care prices are dramatically cheaper. So if you're someone who wants to travel a lot and live abroad for a year or two, your problem, you know, the health care problems may, the health care cost problems may evaporate because of the dramatically cheaper options available in other countries. So something to look into, I believe, Christian Bryce from Quit Like a Millionaire, talked a little bit about this on an episode, maybe a couple hundred episodes ago.

Starting point is 00:32:44 We'll have to dig that one up. Episode 55 and 55 and a half. Wow, that was good. I remember that one. That was a really good episode. That episode was so good as soon as we were done. We're like, hey, we got to record another show to release the next day because it was so good. Awesome. So those are some good options there. And then the last one, of course, is you can always just keep working for the health care benefits. So if you love your job. All right. Dear Mindy and Scott, I have been with my employer for a number of years and have only received a 2% raise yearly. I am essential to the business, but don't know. know how to approach them about getting a raise. What advice do you have should I leave my job? So I'm going to ask you, Scott, because you are the CEO. I'm going to say your answer first,

Starting point is 00:33:34 and then I've got several comments I want to share. Yeah, I mean, there's three possibilities here, right? One is that the business is not capable of giving this person more of a raise, even though they are essential. The second is that this person is not actually essential. And the third is that this person has just not played their hand and been and leveraged their essential position to ask for that raise. So, you know, I, you know, I am, I just want to have a small amount of healthy skepticism and put a little bit of fear into this person's mindset here.

Starting point is 00:34:10 Are they really essential, right? If it's been a number of years and it's only been a 2% raise yearly, they may not be. That may be a statement that is incorrect for them. But if they truly believe it, then I think you've got to test that and you've got to be ready for someone to say no and to be able to go out and search and see what your alternatives are because that may, you know, that's what it will come down to, is either you confront the situation or you let it lie. And if you confront the situation, you need to have power in your hands and you don't have power

Starting point is 00:34:41 in your hands if you don't know what your market value is and have tested that with with other interviews and those types of things. If you are essential to the business, then you will have or should have a stack of papers, emails, commendations, et cetera, from people that you have been working with saying, thank you so much for doing this. You were such a lifesaver doing that. When we interviewed Aaron Lowry most recently on the show, she suggested keeping a praise folder in your inbox on your email. So whenever anybody sends you an email saying, thank you so much for doing this or you did such a great job here, you just save it to your praise folder. It's hard when it's raise time to remember who sent all of these emails. But it's really easy to open up that folder and print

Starting point is 00:35:34 those all out and share it with your boss. Hey, Scott, I'd like a raise. Here, is a stack of papers from everybody that I've worked with saying how awesome I am. Scott, as the boss, will look at these and say, wow, she really is essential to the business. I am going to give her a raise. Or you don't have this stack of papers. Hey, Scott, I want to raise. No. One other kind of CEO perspective here, right, is what does essential to the business mean? A good business does not have anyone that is essential to the business. business, right? Like, if I were to get hit by a bus, do you think bigger pockets would stop to

Starting point is 00:36:14 cease to function? We'd have a day for you. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not essential to the business, right? So I think that this concept of essential is, is really can give people too big of a head in these situations. Your value is the market value of your skill set relative to the alternatives in a business, right? An accountant, if you're the only accountant at a business, you are essential to the business, the business needs an accounting function. But that doesn't mean that if you're getting paid $60,000, you can tell your employer, I'm going to have, I need $120,000 a year, or I'm leaving here. They're going to say, see you later and hire somebody else for $60,000 to do that essential function, even if you're good at it, right? And so that's just what I think, where I would

Starting point is 00:37:01 just caution this person, get out of that mindset of I'm essential to the business, reframe it to I'm excellent at my job and my market value is here and I'm the only being paid here. And I know that market value is here because I see other jobs posted for this that I'm qualified for and I've even gone down the path potentially of getting interviews for and getting offers for roles at that position. Now you have that. And then your employer can say one or two things. I agree.

Starting point is 00:37:27 Your market value is exactly where you just said, where you said and we should pay you that and we value you. Or they can say, wow, that's awesome that your market value is increased. so much. We don't have a position that can pay that amount at this point in time. I'll give you a reference or recommendation letter. Good luck at the new company there. That's a much healthier way to approach a position like this and puts the power in your hands instead of saying, I'm essential to this business. I want to raise for my boss. That puts all the power into your boss's hands and will make you feel resentful if they say no. Another thing is how did you ask for the raise?

Starting point is 00:38:06 or did you ask for the raise? You received a 2% raise yearly. Have you asked for an increase? And how are you asking? Hey, Scott, can I have a raise? Is not the right way to ask. Hey, Scott, I'd like to talk to you about my compensation. Here are the reasons why I think I deserve a raise.

Starting point is 00:38:29 And here's the amount that I want. It is based on market value. It is based on what I am bringing. to the company. It's based on the cuts that I have made or the increases that I have brought in or like whatever it is. But I want a raise is not enough. I want a raise for all of these reasons. And here's the amount that I want. You can't just say I want a raise. But yeah, you should be absolutely looking at other companies to see what they're offering. If you're making $40,000 a year in the going rate for your company's 80, like Scott said, you're probably not going to get that.

Starting point is 00:39:06 you should move. Yeah. And again, reframe it to, here's the market value for my position, and here are the outputs that I've produced. Good luck finding someone else at this capability set at this price range. You wouldn't.

Starting point is 00:39:21 You'd find them here. That's how we've got to be thinking about this. Not, I'm essential. I want a bigger race. That gets you nowhere, right? I would have a very hard time discussing having that conversation with somebody.

Starting point is 00:39:35 I have a much, our company would try to be more proactive on the front of understanding where someone is relative to their career journey, what the positions open are, and what the opportunities for advancement are. So it sounds like their employer is also not doing a very good job at that fundamental HR task, but also this person is allowing themselves to stagnate at that. So either they need to take a stand for themselves with a very clear understanding. on market value or jump ship. Yeah, exactly. Scott, this was a super fun episode and I would love for us to do another one just like this. Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it. Okay, that wraps up this super fun episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Indy Jensen saying, see you later, alligator. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel

Starting point is 00:40:36 at YouTube.com slash BiggerPockets Money. BiggerPockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kaelin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.

BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 435: Ask Mindy and Scott: Early Retirement, Asking for a Raise, and Stolen Money

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.