BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 443: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to FI: A Day in the Life of a Finance Blogger

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

A “wife-FI,” semi-retired finance blogger? It sounds like an exciting life, but what does it entail? Today’s guest didn’t arrive here overnight and doesn’t recommend it for everyone. What he does recommend, however, is identifying the type of financial independence you want and then working hard to achieve it! Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Money podcast! Today, we’re chatting with J Money, one of the pioneering finance bloggers who started his journey toward financial freedom back in 2007. After catching the personal finance bug, J decided to document his progress on his blog Budgets Are Sexy. After selling the blog to The Motley Fool and buying it back a few years later, J now blogs for fun, spends time with his three kids, and otherwise goes with the flow. In this episode, J shares about the “wife-FI” lifestyle and how he invests his money for the long haul. He also opens up about his recent autoimmune disease diagnosis and how it affects his family’s finances today. As always, Scott and Mindy are here to tackle all kinds of financial topics—including the debate between renting and home ownership, paying off your home versus keeping a home loan, and how to invest amid a potential economic downturn! In This Episode We Cover A typical “day in the life” of a semi-retired finance blogger The pros and cons of owning versus renting your home When it makes sense to pay off your home or keep a mortgage Where to invest your money in a shaky economy Budgeting for monthly expenses and medical costs on one income And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Scott's Instagram Mindy on BiggerPocket Grab Scott’s Book, “Set for Life” Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Join The Real Estate InvestHER Community on Facebook Money Moment How to Get Rich Slowly and Retire Earlier Than Most with a Modest Portfolio Budgets Really ARE Sexy! With J. Money Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-443   Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email us: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, where we interview Jay Money from Budgets Are Sexy and talk about retiring, unretiring, picking up an autoimmune disease and his current portfolio. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me as always is my definitely not retired co-host, Scott Trench. Great to be here with my fired but not fired co-host Mindy Jensen. Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. That's right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own

business, sell that business, buy that business back, and live the life of a financially independent multimillionaire. We'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams. Scott, before we bring in Jay, we have a new segment of our show called the Money Moment where we share a money hack, tip or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today's money moment is, okay, let's face it,

birthday parties are expensive, especially kids' birthday parties between the venue, the cake, the decorations, and those darn goodie bags. Things add up quick. Write this down, Scott, you'll need this for later. What if you could slash your budget?

Venue? How about the local park or lake? All kids want to do is play anyway. Cake? Hello. Costco. Decorations? The dollar store has you covered. And goodie bags? Look, from one mom to another, I hate those things. They're filled with cheap crap that I don't want in my house. Skip it. Or give something that isn't going to annoy the mom. Mindy, I actually went to a party recently and we brought all these fancy toys we've got for our nine-month-old. You know what her favorite thing to play with was? The box of the wrapping paper. Yeah, the plastic plate. So there you go. Best gift. We're We took a couple extra plates for that party. Yes, that is the most fun your baby will have.

That or a box. Get a great big box, and she will crawl around in that for hours, weeks, months. Do you have a money saving tip for us? Email money moment at biggerpockets.com. Okay, Scott, I'm so excited to bring Jay Money back because he is such a fun person to talk to. And he is going to give us a little glimpse into what he's been doing in the last few years. Yeah, it's exciting to catch up with Jay. And really fun, really fun to hear what's going on.

Obviously, there's been some setbacks there, but he seems to be living his best life that he can right now. Yep, setbacks, but he's taking them in stride. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going. And more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward.

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At this point, I've logged over 229 audio book completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being. What makes Audible so powerful is its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more,

all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over 10 years. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP Money. Jay Money is one of the OG personal finance bloggers from way back in the day, the Miley Cyrus of Finance. Maybe the Hannah Montana. No, he's the Miley Cyrus of Finance. It says so on his Twitter bio.

He started blogging in 2008 and stopped sort of in 2019 when he sold budgets are sexy to the Motley Four. He recently reacquired the blog and posts kind of whenever he feels like it because he's retired, right? Jay joined us on episode 103 where he shared his money story and we're back today to catch up with all the things that he has been up to in the last three years. Sit back because he might be unemployed, but he is not bored. Jay, welcome to the Bigger Pockets and Money podcast. I am so excited to talk to you. Hi. I love talking to you all.

So for our new listeners, can you give us a little bit about yourself, your blog, and how you got into the finance world, Miley Cyrus of Finance? Yeah, yeah. Actually, I like the Hannah Montana because it's like a double life, right? I have my online life, this J. Money guy. And then my real life, which I'm not J Money in real life, obviously. Wait, that's not your real name? Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

I know. Did you legally change it to J. Money? No, that'd be so cool. No, no, no, no. a nice boring name, not very marketable, so we stick with the J money. But yeah, I mean, I like just a regular dude back in 2008. I was looking for a place to rent, actually maybe closer to 2007. We came across this nice place for sale and within 48 hours just randomly we ended up

buying no money down, no budget. Like that was right before, you know, the big housing crash was a about to happen. And then I was like, oh, man, I should probably get a budget. And so I started Googling and I kept coming across all of these like people. I didn't even know what a blog was. They're just people talking about money. But they were like showing like real life numbers and networks. And I was just so like addicted to it. Like I learned and it was fun and we had a community. And then after a couple of months, I was like, well, I want to start a blog, you know. And we came up with budgets are sexy. And then yeah, one thing led to another. And he

here we are, gosh, 15 years later, you know, semi-retired and all from the blog. I mean, all my friends changed. I learned about entrepreneurship. And it's crazy. It's crazy what you can do now, just having the internet, you know, it's awesome. Did producing your first budget improve your dating life per the name of your blog? It would have. I was already dating slash engaged.

So I'd like to think that it helps lots of single people out there, yes. I have pretty pictures in there. my budget, I have a spreadsheet that I gave away for free online. And it has like all colors in it. It has like sexy all over the place. So, you know, we try to have fun. And this stuff is usually kind of boring, as many of us know. Excuse me. Budgets are not boring. They are sexy. That's right. Yeah, go to Budgetserboring.com and see what happens. I think I still have that site up there. So, you know, I'd also like to dive into your personal relationship, a history with the Budgets Aresexy.com company, the blog that you've produced here.

Last time we chatted with you, I think you were the proud and prodigious owner of Budgets or Sexy.com. And then you sold it and retired. I've heard there's been some new developments in that front. Could you tell us what's going on there? Yeah. So after about 10 or 12 years, I wanted to change. I was getting into minimalism. I was like, oh, what would happen if I didn't have the blog in my life?

Like, it's such a big part of you, you know? It had like a million kids. And I was like, oh, I just wanted. to, you know, it was just time for a change. And the Motley Fool was working on some cool stuff at the time. And one thing led to another and they ended up buying it. And then I worked with them for a few years. We built a curation site called AllStarMoney.com for about a year. Their division kind of changed. And they were like, hey, we're not buying sites anymore. We're not getting in this industry. Do you want the blog back? And I thought, oh, my, what? Like, I was like perfectly at peace.

You know, like I did my run. It was fun. But the opportunity came and I thought, well, and, you know, this is, I don't know, I guess I could do it. I literally had nothing else to do at the time. And actually, I had gotten sick for a few months. So I was like down in the dumps. And then when I bought the blog back, I thought, oh, this is great. I have something to do.

I was all energized. I started feeling better health-wise because we figured out a diagnosis. And this was last year. Yeah. And then ever since, it's just been a kind of a fun. hobby. You know, like what it started with. I blogged for the fun of it because it was a community talking about money. I didn't really know it could be a business. And then once you find out it's a business, you know, like it kind of changes and it's not as fun. And so now we're back to

just, you know, the roots, which is kind of cool. I think you can still be blogging for fun and make a little bit of money on the side. We've been in this space together for a while. Our paths have overlapped. And I've watched, like you have watched, people come in and blog for the love of it and then blog simply for the money. And you can always tell when somebody's blogging just for the money. It doesn't feel as genuine. Yeah. And I mean, blogs, what they are, you know, it's like your diary of your thoughts. You know, I don't think it was meant to be monetized and we kind of accidentally learn that you could monetize it, you know. But you're right. There's some good people out there still doing it for the love of it. And yeah, it definitely shows. Yeah. Well, I think.

think that your blog really shows your love of what you're talking about because it's not just all money. I mean, I got your email today. You're talking about paying your kids to pick up the dog poop. Yeah, trying to pay them. Yeah, I was getting good money and they wouldn't, they want to take it. Spoiler alert. Kids don't want to pick up dog poop. Who'd have thought? You mentioned your illness. And that's something that I think is very interesting to talk about. because you're retired and you live in America, so you have crappy health care, or maybe you do, maybe you have great health care. And then you decided that life wasn't chaotic enough with three boys you thought you'd pick up into

autoimmune disease. Yeah. How's that going? How does that affect your finances? Because if I'm correct, this is just going to kind of come and go throughout your life for the rest of your life, right? There's no cure for this? Yeah, yeah.

It's called Pemphagus vulgaris, and it's like this nasty autoimmune blistering disease. A lot of people have it outside on their skin where it just takes over your body and it looks miserable. I've heard it feels miserable. Mine, weirdly, is just inside, like inside my mouth and nose and in my throat when it happens. So in the beginning, after a couple months of this, just, I mean, just randomly just started happening. Like, I couldn't swallow. I could breathe, but I couldn't swallow an eat. And I said, oh, I should probably go to the hospital, kind of get that figured out.

And no one at the hospital knew what it was. It took me another month and a half until we finally diagnosed it through a dermatologist out of all people. I didn't know they worked in the mouth, but they do. So if you ever anything funky on your skin and your mouth, they are the first, you know, people I would check out. Yeah, and once we figured it out, it's basically one of those things that comes and goes. there are treatments for it.

It's kind of like a chemotherapy infusion type of stuff. And that costs, man, you do a round of two of them every couple of years. And each one injection is like $22,000, at least through my insurance. And then, you know, you're out of pocket, you know, is $1,000, $2,000. So it gets pretty pricey. And if you have no insurance, I can't even, like I can't even imagine how you deal with that my wife still works, so we use her insurance. Thankfully, so that's been helpful.

But it's weird. It's like, you know, I felt like I was dying. And then I felt all better. And then actually, when you reached out to be on this podcast, I was sitting there actually getting, you know, the fluids inside of me, you know, as I was in the hospital and you asked to be on the show. You know, so it's, yeah, it's crazy. Just comes out of nowhere.

And there's, is there any, like, rhyme or reason to what brings a flare up? Or is it just like, hey, I'm feeling great. Let's have a knockdown. Yeah, no. I mean, there's like certain, what's it called? Like genes that people have. And if you have the gene, there's like a one in 10,000 chance that it'll be activated. Once it's activated, like they say it's in your, it's like dormant, I guess.

And then a number of things can pile up and then activate it. Like stress, I guess can activate it like your health and, you know, like how you eat and exercise and stuff, I think has a part to do with it. But more or less, he's like, no, you just happens, you know, and people like, I go to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. And it's like renowned for the specific disease, this type of disease. And people flying from all over the world, third world countries especially that don't have access. And they are just like, like my case is so mild compared to some of these other people that have dealt years of. And he said, like, look, if you don't treat it, like, it's not going to technically kill you, but like you'll want to do. and eventually you'll just like consume your whole body, you know.

And I guess at some point it might kill you if you can't, you know, swallow like, like happen to me. But yeah, it's a nasty one. Probably not that fun to talk about on a finance show. I'm happy to, but it is expensive. So there's your tieback. Thank you for sharing this. This is really, you know, a gut punch for you with this diagnosis in this situation.

But yeah, you know, while we're talking about the finances of this and the, the high health costs in this country. How do you as an entrepreneur and business owner, how have you set things up to and how has that worked in this situation with the recent medical issues you've had? You know, I used to budget a lot back in the beginning. And then once I kind of figured out like, hey, spend less than you earn, I just got really good in the habit of just saving and investing a lot over the last 10 years since I kind of got consumed in this personal finance world. And so for me, I haven't really done anything a little different. It kind of falls in the bucket like, you know, like I have a few thousand dollars where I'm like,

hey, something's going to happen. I don't know what it's going to be like, you know, tires pop in, you know, or something, you know, home ownership, as we all know, is, you know, crazy, expensive at times. So I just kind of falls in the like I know I'm going to spend money this year on who knows what. And I just have that set aside, you know, just generally over the last 10 years. So this just pulls from that. You know, but there are people, I mean, like I've gotten four infusions in a year. And it should last a few years in a perfect world. But every time I go in there, there's people that have to go in two or three times a week.

You know, they have cancer. They have these other things that this medicine treats you for. And I don't know how they do it. I mean, it's miserable to have the disease. It's miserable to do the infusions and take all the time, you know, hours a week. But then to have to like go in debt and spend money on this stuff too. Like, it's wild. I don't have any good answers for that.

It's just sad. Jay, more specifically, how are you, how do you handle insurance in a general sense as a business over and financially independent person? Well, for me, my wife still works. And so, and she loves to work. I kind of try and convince her every now than not to, but she enjoys what she does. does. And she has insurance. So I thankfully don't have to, you know, worry about that. If she were to take me up on the offer to stop working, you know, I think I would just consume all the fire blogs out there and see what everyone does. That's how I do with a lot of myself, my investments.

I'm like, well, what is all of my friends doing online that's smart about this? And then I kind of, you know, do my research from there. And something like the health ministries that have popped up a lot of times over the fire movement. Like, I'd probably start looking there just because I keep seeing that all the time. But, but, but yeah, fortunately, she still works and has that insurance, which is really helpful. And, you know, especially since we have three kids, too, like, they're always banging up and we're always at the doctors, you know, every other week. So I'm sorry, I'm not laughing. I'm just, I'm thinking of, we have a friend Aaron, Aaron Chase. I follow her on Facebook and her boys are having a competition who can go to the ER more in a year.

She's just, so I think of your three boys and her four boys. And I'm like, hoo-hoo, girls, yay. Yeah, yeah. Well, and you know what? Like, even like, like, I guess if we, like, let's say we have no insurance. Like, I enjoy working. So, like, my perfect lifestyle is to work a few hours in the morning on whatever projects and then, you know, just do whatever for the rest of the time.

time. And so, like, I would literally probably work at Starbucks or work somewhere that I enjoy that has a benefits package and just do part-time or tradeaway shifts and stuff to people who want more shifts, that kind of stuff. There's all these, like, you know, little hacks I feel like you could do if you really, you know, wanted to, to, you know, have insurance in a different way. And a lot of people, you know, in our world, too, is like, are you retired? Well, no, you're not retired, like this whole big thing, but I think it comes down to the freedom, you know, and like, if you enjoy working and you want to do stuff and be productive, you know, that's great. And you can get these benefits like health insurance and other stuff at times. Yeah, well, you brought

it up. So let's address the elephant in the room. Your wife does work. So you're not financially independent. I'm wife, wife. Your wife, fie. My husband is also wife, fie. Does your wife have a timeline for retirement. No, no. Every time I mentioned it, like, oh, we should travel the word for a year, be nomads or whatever, you know, because I love all that kind of stuff. She likes the stability and she likes, she enjoys what she does. And I think she's always more conservative to me. Like, I'm pretty out there at times.

So we are a nice balance in that respect. And I think maybe because of the boys and me, like she, like the stability makes her happy, you know. for me, it does not make me that happy. I mean, so it's a, it's an interesting, you know, dichotomy there. But yeah, no, she, she, every time I hear people talk, if she says, oh, yeah, my husband, well, he just putters around her, he's retired or whatever she says to people, they always ask her. And she's like, I'm going to be doing it for a couple decades. So we'll see. So you've, you've mentioned the word stability a couple of times. And I, I know my specific situation. And I have a fairly good handle in your specific situation, but not everybody listening does.

How does she feel about you not working? Because there can be some really big feelings of resentment. Oh, I'm still working and he's not. Or feelings of maybe they would have this resentment. Yeah, she's been pretty good. And I think because when we started, I think we were only dating for a couple of years when I kind of fell into this whole entrepreneur. stuff, like I'm kind of an accidental entrepreneur.

So I think she's used to that from the beginning. And even when I was blogging and I had a full-time job, I got let go from that job. And like, my first thought was like, oh, my gosh, I'm a full-time blogger, you know, like just automatically, right? And I remember she was super nervous and she was like, well, like, what's the backup plan? I said, well, I'll just do it for a couple months. And then if it doesn't work out, I'll go get a job, you know. And then I just never did. And so it's kind of been this whole thing, like a project.

I sell the blog, okay, like, what are you going to do? Well, I'm going to work on projects. You know, I think since projects keep coming and going, like she's used to that and she knows I'm always going to be doing something. So it's not like, even though I guess technically I'm retired, I'm still working on stuff. And even around the house, like the other year, I thought, well, now that I have more time, you know, what can I do to take stuff off her plate? So I started doing laundry every day.

I started grocery shopping this year. which is a whole experience. So like I'm doing, I'm actually, like, there's a lot of stuff I do as like a, I don't know, sometimes I just say I'm a stay-at-home daddy, you know. And I do everything with the kids. I'm taking them everywhere because she's, you know, a typical 9 to 5 and she works for the government. You know, so she's not as flexible. Yeah.

So I think if I wasn't doing any of that stuff and all I was doing is like selfish stuff and going, having fun and drinking and bowling and do whatever I do, then I think she would have brought it up. But I stay helpful. I stay helpful. So something I've always wondered when I introduce my husband as unemployed, I'm joking. But if I kind of have to be careful about my audience, I can't just, you know, introduce him to the neighbors as, oh, this is my husband. He's unemployed because it sounds like I resent it and I don't. what do your friends think about her working and you not?

Because being a stay-at-home dad is honorable and wonderful. And I was a stay-at-home mom, but being a stay-at-home mom is way more common than being a stay-at-home dad. And we live in America and there's this whole like macho the man provides kind of garbage. And I'm just, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm wondering if anybody has a like has any. Anybody ever said anything to you about this? No, but two things. One, and my wife drives her crazy because I'm always taking the kids everywhere and

take it into all moms, usually all moms. All the moms love me and like, oh, you're such a good dad. Oh, good for you. Even though I'm like literally doing the same thing as they're doing, I do get a lot more credit than I probably deserve. And my wife's like, that drives me crazy. If it was me, they would never say anything. So that's one thing I've noticed a lot.

But so far my friends, and maybe because maybe they thought I've been unemployed for so long, like blogging because it's not like a real job. You know, like they don't get it. They don't really, they like, the only thing I ever hear is like, oh, I wish I can, you know, work in my pajamas and go to the coffee shop all day. Like, that's what I hear a lot. You know, so no one really, no one says anything at least, at least to my face. But, and then you got, right, all my friends now. I mean, I have friends in real life. But it's all the online community, you know.

Like, you guys are my friends. Like, I've swapped. I only have online friends now that are cool. I curate everything. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch.

It helps you see exactly where your money is going. And more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward. It's to actually make progress. Simplify your financial. with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop.

Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch's subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at monarch.com code pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday.

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This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila. dot CA. Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in-store and online, though some may vary. So, Jay, can you give us a life in the day up, like a recent day that was really good? What does it look like top to bottom? And how do we kind of think about how you spend your time in that context? Yeah. Well, today is actually a perfect day. Like, I took the kids to camp, like around 9 a.m. At first I woke up at 6 a.m.

What camp are they going to? Oh, they're just going to like a summer fun, you know, camp through the city. Nothing crazy, just like arts and, you know, playground stuff. But I woke up at 6 o'clock, had coffee. I like to read finance articles, you know, so I did that. I do what I call correspondence for I'm just responding to email, seeing what I have to do for the day, you know. And just really just having two hours of peace to myself with like, with everyone sleeping. It's like the best thing I've done for my lifestyle in the last 10 years.

And then I took the kids to camp. I went to the coffee shop for an hour and a half. And I had a new blog post out today. So I responded to comments, did social. And then I have the whole day until I pick them up, at which I'm doing after this call or this podcast. And I thought, I'm going to go volunteer. I started volunteering at a homeless shelter.

So I was like, this is great. I'm just going to pop over there. I did that for about an hour. hour, two hours, saw all my old friends there, helped them out. Then I was like, oh, got to go grocery shopping. We haven't been out for a few days. So I went grocery shopping for about 45 minutes. A friend needed help with a Zoom call trying to do video stuff. So I hopped on with him. Had some lunch. And then I looked at the time and it was time for you guys. So yeah, like this to me is ideal where it's all with go with the flow. I have stuff to do, but it's not like,

besides the podcast, it's not like at exact time. I had time for me in the morning, and then when we're done, I'll have time with the kids, and then, you know, that's it. It's not, it's nothing glamorous, but it's to my own perfect lifestyle, you know. And that's what I've realized in the last handful of years. Like, I want to work a few hours. I want to play and I want to be productive, but I want to, like, go with the flow and not have, like, timetables as much.

I think that that's just, like, such a good model for, like, a happy, productive day, giving back, being productive, having plenty of view time. And like, that's the goal. This is not like some, you know, and I'll say it's not some glamorous, like you're on an island, you know, or on a mountain top or whatever crazy thing. This is just a really nice, wonderful, wholesome day that you're able to enjoy here. A boring day. Yeah, something that wouldn't go viral on social media if I put that out there.

But that, like, that's what this is, right? That's what retirement or early retirement is like, right? There's going to be normal days and a healthy, wholesome, productive, happy routine that you put in place there. We were debating today about a new YouTube series where Mindy follows people around while they're doing their grocery shopping and hounds them and surprises them with small mistakes that they're making in terms of expense and optimization on their grocery run. So we might have to call you up for the pilot episode of that one. Oh, you'll have hours worth of content if you follow me around. Jay, why did you buy that cereal? The other one's on sale.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I always come back with like, you know, 20 things more than that was not on my list. But to my credit, I only buy when it's on sale and you know you're going to eat it at some point. I'm like, well, I'm going to buy like six of these, right? Like I'll be good for six months. Like peanut butter. That stuff is so expensive.

I never knew how expensive peanut butter was until this year. And it is expensive. And so when I find a deal, I, you know, I get six or seven of them and spend like 50 bucks. Jay may be Wi-Fi, but he's still bringing home the bacon. Literally. That's, oh, that's good. I'm going to have to steal that. That's funny.

You know, and even with finance, too, like when I first started doing grocery shopping, it was like four months ago, I think, or five months ago, I thought, well, I'm going to make a spreadsheet. I'm going to go to, like, all the grocery stores and document which ones are cheaper. And I'm going to have this whole strategy, you know, because I have all the time. right? Like I'll go to six stores in a day and get the best deal. But every time I then thought of shopping, I was like, I don't even want to leave. Like, it's so overwhelming. And so I've eventually only got it down to two stores. And like Walmart, I'll go like once a month and do a big run. And then my local grocery store, I'll go often. And I do spend more money, I don't know,

maybe $50 more a month doing that. But like it makes my lifestyle so better. And I can only do that because I've saved for so long, you know? So it is interesting that like, even though I thought I was going to be super frugal and come back and tell my wife, look at all, look how much money I've saved our family since I've taken over, you know, like, it's definitely not the case. Although I will say I love decluttering as a minimalist and I declutter our pantry and she'll put things on the list and I'm like, we have like five of these, you know. And so like I'm better at like that part of the process. I like that working together. I was going to say, I have a pantry full of stuff that I bought when it was on sale and I bought seven of them and they get shoved to the back

and you can't find them and then you go buy more. And I did just hire a professional organizer to come over and help me declutter my house. Wow. Wow. That's one of the things that came out of the remit podcast was I'm going to hire a house cleaner and I'm going to hire a professional organizer. Oh my gosh. Good for you. Yeah, we had our first session and it was, whew, I see how she works. She's worth the money. One corner of one room is now complete, right? We spent four hours doing underneath the bathroom cabinets in two bathrooms. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I mean, it was like there's a lot of stuff in there. First, we take it all out and then we sorted and then we sorted again. And I saw how

she works. I like how she works. It's going to be a good experience. And now I can take that and like, I don't need her to help me sort through my socks. I could do that myself. But in the kitchen, I'm going to need some help. But she got the good process. Yeah. She's instilled a good process for you. Yeah. That's important. So it's going to be a hybrid. She's going to come over and then I'm going to do some work by myself. And then she'll come back and do another room with me and then I'll do some work by myself. That's interesting. Yeah. You don't see many people in our space doing that because you get like all the hate mail coming in. Yeah. If anybody wants to give me guff about that. My email is Scott at biggerpockets.com. There you go. Okay. But this show is not about me. The show is

about J money. So J money. We've talked about the J part. Let's talk about the money part. Last year, 2022. I don't know if you noticed, but the stock market was. was kind of squidgy. And at the same time, you are going through some expensive drugs. How did the market ups and downs affect your mentality about early retirement and financial independence? It didn't. I don't know if that's weird to say. I don't, it does not bother me. Actually, I was talking to someone today that's just starting to get into real estate at the coffee shop. And they're like, you know, and I told him last year to start investing, especially as it was going down. He's like, no, no, no, everyone's pulling their money out. And it's crazy. It's crazy.

And so now I'm meeting him a year later. And I said, well, did you invest or no? He said, no, no, I should have. The market's back up. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I told you. I know. Like, we all know this, but your emotions gets the best of us, you know. I mean, I'm pretty emotional in general, but for some reason, because I think because we're just consumed, you know, we're in this world, like, I just don't pay attention. And if I think anything, it's like, I'll just, you know, because I'm currently, I'm always constantly investing recurringly. So I know that I'm going to get stuff on a deal, you know? And then when it goes up, it's like, okay, but then like I'm buying it more expensive.

So it's not rarely ever a win-win, you know, except for the long run, right? Like I read something today is like, just invest. Don't look at it for 20 years if you can. And you're going to be like the happiest person in 20 years, you know. And granted, that's index funds and not stock picking and stuff. but I think that's true. So to answer your question, you know, I just, I don't, it does not bother me. And maybe if it was like two or three years of it, I start questioning perhaps, you know.

But even during the market crash, right? Like right when I got into personal finance, I was funneling money in and the whole market was going down, down, down, you know? And I was like, okay, this is crazy. But then it went up for what, like 10 years? Like it was crazy. So I think like I know in the back of my mind, like this is good. You're in it for the long haul.

It's not like you need to start pulling money today. Right. And it doesn't count until you hit the sell button. You know, like it's still, it's all fake money until you hit sell. So can you give us an overview of kind of what your, where you allocate money in your portfolio and how you invest? Yeah. So I used to be all over the place.

I would literally like see what Warren Buffett's doing. And then I'm like, I'm just going to copy him thinking that was really smart. And of course, he's Warren Buffett. has different specials than we get. And so they did okay. But then someone else would give me a hot tip. And I'm like, all right, I'll invest in that. And then I went on the Dole Roller podcast.

I don't know, six or seven years ago. And he asked me like what my fund fees were. I was like, I don't know. He's like, you are a finance blogger? And you don't know. What are you invested? And I was like, honestly, couldn't tell you.

There's like 80 things I have. And he didn't get mad at me, but he didn't tell he was shaking his head, even though I couldn't see him. And he's like, just like read like JL Collins and stuff. So I was like, okay. And then I realized like everyone in the fire space does index funds. And I was like, all right. So like I made up my mind and I cashed out of everything.

I went 100% into index funds. Up until two years ago, I was 100% into VTSAX, vanguard's index. And that's it. That's literally all I had. And then we got a small inheritance on my wife's side a couple years ago when her mother died and we kind of went into like a little bit of bonds and a little bit international, but they're all Vanguard index funds. So I think I have like three or four funds total, all index funds.

And every now and then I'll like, oh, I'm going to be good at crypto. And so I buy Bitcoin. And then it crashes the next day. And I'm like, well, just wait it out. And then it crashes more. And so I think in the last couple years when I was bored, I put in like, I don't know, $20,000 over the couple years. and then I pulled out 10 a couple months ago.

So I dibble dabble, but 99.9% is index funds. And do you own a house? Oh, yes, we do. Yes, we own our house and we paid that off. And so, yes, that is another. Well, yeah, but that doesn't earn money. That sucks up all our money. Wait, you paid off your house?

Yeah, yeah, I paid off. Yeah, oh, that's right. I'm not supposed to, right? No. It's bad. Like, give it. back your five card. There's a couple of things. A couple of things I ought to put out of this, though, as well. When you have a paid off house, right, so like there's there's the math, right? And then there's

the reality and the practical sense of freedom here. Jay is actually not working and enjoying this day and lifestyle. And I have found over the course of hundreds of these chats, Mindy, that the people who are actually doing those kind of chill days, these wonderful, awesome. lifestyle benefits, that they have somehow, some way, not optimized the math of their end state portfolio to some degree because having a paid off house is just freeing and easy. It's done. You don't have to worry about it, right? One less thing to worry about with it.

So, Jay, I have two more questions on your portfolio here. One, how much cash do you have relative to your annual spending on hand? Well, we have in our savings account $30,000 in there. And since my wife works, a majority of her money goes to pay, all of her paychecks go to paying a majority of our expenses. Because, you know, we don't have the house payment. So that's a big chunk, obviously. Our cars are paid off, you know, and then really it's like kid stuff and, you know, Amazon is where a lot of our money is. And I definitely don't dare break that down.

She's in charge of Amazon. on. So, you know, but yeah, I don't know if that answers a question. Yeah, so we have savings. And then everything that's not in savings is in the market or in the house since we paid that off. And that's it. I don't own businesses or anything anymore. If your wife were to stop working, would you reposition some of your portfolio into a different allocation than paid off house, small savings balance and VTSAX essentially? I would not change the investments. I would keep that the same because I'm pretty risk adverse, so I'd probably keep that for decades. I would refinance the house and get that chunk of cash and start living off of that more

and still probably invest as much as I could because the house, I mean, you know, we know there's pros and cons to it. Right now it makes sense, but yeah, if I needed money and I want to keep this lifestyle going, then I'm fine with having debt. It's not like I hate debt all the way. But yeah, but the situation would change, you know.

And there's times too where sometimes I do think about that. I'm like, oh, I want to like, like if there was a business opportunity that came by, and I was like, oh my gosh, I need like,

you know, I don't know what our house is worth. Let's say 400,000. Like if I needed $400,000 cash, like I would much rather refinance the house and go all in than like take it for my investments. You know, and a lot of my investments too is in, you know, IRA, you know, SEP IRA and a Roth IRA as well as a brokerage. So I can't even tap all of that.

Yeah. So I think so for now, yeah, for now it works. But yeah, if no more income was coming in and I didn't want to get a part-time job or anything, then yeah, I would refinance the house and go that way. Awesome. And I'll also call out that we have one additional asset here that was not listed, which is the budgets or sexy business, right? Yeah. Yes and no. When I sold it, yes, it was a business. Part of the reasons without going in too much that I was able to get it back was that the strategy and what Motley Fool thought was going to happen did not happen all the way. And so the business was a lot smaller when I took it back. And since I took it back, I got rid of ads. I redesigned it. And it makes a fraction of what it used to. So I guess technically, yes, I could sell it again, which would be crazy for a little bit, but I don't even, I don't even count that.

Well, it's just awesome to get into the minds of someone who's living the lifestyle, the Fifi lifestyle and how you think about the allocation of these portfolios and how you think about setting those things up. So thanks for sharing all that with us. Yeah, sure. Yeah, and I should give a shout out. Yeah, Doe Roller and J.L. Collins, especially. his stock series is what I got sucked into and really and the whole community really. I mean, that's what's nice about it, right? Like even me who I'm living and breathing finance or certain areas we don't like or care

about or we're just bad at, you know, so to have other people that is their specialty and to lean on them, it's great. It's awesome. Yeah. And I want to say, I was just teasing about the whole paid off house thing. Eventually I'll have a paid off house. I think 29 years from now I'll have a paid off house. But that's a choice.

And I can sleep just fine knowing that I have a mortgage payment because it's not that much because it was, you know, it was back when the mortgage rates were super, super low. And I think it is fine that you have paid off your house because you did it on purpose weighing the pros and cons, knowing what you are getting versus giving. up and I think so many people subscribe to what's the Dave Ramsey intro the paid off house is the equivalent of the BMW or whatever he says. Not necessarily. If you're just paying off your house to pay off your house because you don't know what to do with your money, then maybe that's a good thing. But if you're paying off your house so then you can go spend your what you would have been paying towards your house on other dumb stuff that you don't need, then maybe that's not the best choice for you. And, you know, you should, with your money, you should do things intentionally.

Yeah, yeah. And I would even say that I don't even want to own a house. Like, I like renting. I love renting. Going back to minimalism, right, and freedom. Like, I'd rent in a heartbeat. You know, my wife does not like that idea. And my kids like going back to the stability stuff, right? So, you know, I say, okay, well, that's best for the family. I'll do it. And buying now and paying off house now versus 15 years ago. I didn't have a budget or any, any ideas like a way different life's, you know, your mind is a lot different. I was freaked out every time anything happened because I had no money, right? Like I bought house and I didn't have like any money going on. So now when something breaks, it's still annoying as hell, but at least like you don't have to

worry about the finances part. So, but yeah, I would, I love renting. And anytime someone debates owning a home when I could tell they're not ready, it's like, no, just rent. Like you do, not have to own if you do not want to, you know. Jail Collins finally convinced me to that renting was okay because until a conversation with him several years ago, I was like, no, you should always buy. Why wouldn't you buy? And then he made, like, I think he was the first person to make a good point that like made sense to me why renting was okay. So now, yeah, if you don't want to buy a house, if you don't want to own or you're not sure, that's the best time to not own a house. I rented until April of 20203.

So I completely agree. Oh, really? You just bought? I moved into a rental property. I bought in 2019 in April 2020. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

Gotcha. That's cool. That's funny. Yeah, the CEO of Bigger Pockets was a renter. See that? Okay. Jay, what is next for you? This is it.

I do not. Again, my lifestyle is set up. now. I think that's one thing I realized, like, before it was like, the future is my blog, or the future is this awesome other project, or with finances, right? Like hitting fire. And I think I'm at the point where, like, just give me something fun to work on every day, give me the freedom. And I don't even care what it is. Like, again, like, working at the homeless shelter. Like, I have just as much joy doing that as I do blogging or going for a walk or spending $100 on a nice dinner. Like, it's all, you.

equal happiness for me. So as long as I get some part of that every day, like the little, the variable swap out, but like the time allotments are there. You know, so and this year for me, I should say too, is I call it the year of the flow where I'm not planning anything. Like again, like you guys are like the only thing on my week that I have to do at a certain time this week, right? Which is fine.

But like that's how I like it. Like I don't, you know, like the guy today at the coffee shop, right? I haven't seen him in a year. And then I said, hey, why don't you come have coffee with me? We'll talk for an hour. Like, I'm just hanging out here, you know, typing. And that was nice. I wouldn't have been able to do that before.

So the feature is just more of this kind of stuff, but I'll definitely be working on something for sure. Awesome. I love that idea. You don't always have to be looking for the next thing to accomplish. It's okay to enjoy your life. Yeah. I say no a lot. Yeah.

The whole, you know, everyone says yes too much. I will say there are days where I'm like, I need something to do and I can't do anything. Like, I definitely have those days and I have to force myself like to get creative. But for the most part, it works out. Well, come visit. You can clean out my house. I love, I love, I would probably pay to declutter someone's house. That's how much I enjoy is.

I'm always walking around. And my wife's like, you're looking for things to get rid of, aren't you? And I'm like, yes, I am. It's so fun. You can trade. You can clean out Mindy's house and then Mindy can clean out your shopping, your grocery shopping list. There you go. I would 100% do that if we live nearby. Yeah, open invitation anytime, Jay. You can stay in the basement. Okay. Well, Jay, where can people find you online?

You can go, I'm on Twitter at Budgets Are Sexy. You go to the blog, Budgets Are Sexy.com. And then I have like an online, I don't know, I guess like resourts are sexy. I don't know. I guess like resume that talks about stuff I've worked on, and that's jmoney.biz. J, like the letter jmoney, then dot b-I-Z. That gives you like a background on my stuff. And I believe that as of yesterday, it is now called X. So no more Twitter. Yeah. There you go. I'm on X. Well, on that thread, thank you so much for coming on the show. Jay. It's great to chat with you. And we hope you have a wonderful rest of your FI week here. Thank you. Thanks for having me, guys. Thank you, Jay. We'll talk to you soon. Scott, that was Jay Money, and he is always so much fun to talk to. I really enjoyed our conversation with him today. Yeah, it was great to chat with Jay. He's a finance rock star, Mindy. He is. He is a rock star. You know, I really miss Roxair Finance. Yeah, pun intended. Jay also used to run a site called Rockstar Finance, which was great. He just would aggregate all of the best kind of blog articles or things that were happening in the personal finance and investing world in cinema.

out in a nice newsletter. So not sure what happened to Rockstar Finance, but what a awesome serial entrepreneur, Jay Money has been. And sold again. And yeah, I don't know where it is now. I don't think anybody's publishing it anymore, which is too bad because it was a really awesome way to learn about new bloggers. Do you know J.D. Roth and Jim Wang started one called Apex Money. And that is also a good way to find new finance bloggers. I love when there's new finance bloggers out there because it helps people find the voice that speaks best to them. And, you know, not everybody's voice is going to be for everybody. And if you can find one that's going to help you learn, that's the best.

Yeah, I think that, I think that's right. You know, it's, it's, it's so interesting how all of these folks, you know, Jay Money, J.D., Jim Wang, Steve Chu, the folks that we've met and known over the years who have been big finance bloggers, they're brilliant. They've pioneered things. but like we also need some new finance bloggers coming into the world here that are talking about things and talking about the current realities and struggles that folks are facing in 2023 as they're trying to build wealth. So shout out to everybody who's out there who's contemplating or thinking about or has started a,

is in progress of the personal finance blog and is on the journey because you're helping a lot of people. And there's a lot of, there's a new wave coming here and great contributions to be made from the next gen, I guess, of these bloggers. Yep, I love reading them. If you have a favorite new money blogger, email me, Mindy at Biggerpockets.com, or him, Scott at Biggerpockets.com. And as always, if you have a complaint about the show, Scott at Biggerpockets. com. All right.

That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen. In honor of Jay Money, I'm saying, later, skater. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash biggerpockets money. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kaelin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub.

Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.