BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 457: Money and Relationships: How to Have “The Talk” Before It’s Too Late w/Vivian Tu AKA “Your Rich BFF”

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Vivian Tu, AKA “Your Rich BFF,” is the internet’s expert on money and personal finance. She was doing schoolyard trades before she worked on Wall Street, and now, as the host of Networth and Chill, she talks about the much more profound aspects of finances. Stuff like love, marriage, happiness, and when to ditch another date with someone who could put you in financial ruin. Americans tend to think with their hearts and less with their heads when finding love. The problem with that logic? Money is usually the single-largest reason for divorce, so if your partner doesn’t have their money right, your relationship could be rocky. So, how do you know from the jump if someone is financially savvy enough to build your life with? And, if you already have a partner, what do you do if they’re not in the financial spot you need them to be in? In this episode, Vivian walks through the financial red flags you should look for on a first date, questions to ask to see how a potential partner is doing financially, the BIGGEST money mistake in relationships, and how to start financial planning together so you can live a happier, healthier, and wealthier life. In This Episode We Cover The biggest money mistake that most couples make (and how to fix it NOW) Money questions to ask on a first date (they won’t know you’re asking about money...) The mandatory “money date” that Vivian and her partner regularly have Make a change or break up? What to do when your partner isn’t on the same financial path as you Financial planning as a couple and accomplishing your biggest financial goals together And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Mindy on BiggerPockets Amanda's Instagram Amanda's Website Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Money Moment 16 Money Skills They Didn’t Teach You in High School Divorce: The Biggest Marriage and Money Mistakes to Avoid Smart Money Mamas’ Emergency Binder Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-457   Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email us: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, my dear listeners, and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast, where we talk money and dating with Vivian 2, My Rich BFF. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me today is the She-Wolf of Wall Street, Amanda Wolf. Amanda, I'm so excited you can join me. I'm so excited to be here. It's always lovely to talk to you, and it's always lovely to have you in the co-host position.

So thank you so much for your time. Amanda and I are here to make financial independence less scary. less just for somebody else to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone no matter when or where you're starting. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, or start your own business will help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself toward your dreams. Let's move on to our money moment where we share a money hack, tip, or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today's money moment is one that might

seem a little bit obvious, but check your credit report regularly. This is a good way to make sure there isn't any fraud and to keep track of your credit score and your financial progress. And it's important for a few reasons because fun story, not so fun story, because last year I was almost a victim of identity fraud. So luckily, I had signed up for all of the credit report alerts and I got an alert that I had signed up for a new credit card, did not, went on and realized that it's actually kind of like a free-for-all if somebody has your information to apply for any type of credit. So my tip on top of all of this would be to freeze your credit with all three of the main credit bureaus, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax. So that is free to do. You just go onto their site.

They'll try to sell you stuff along the way, but it's free to do. Just hit that freeze button. and then the next time that you personally want to go take out a line of credit, you just have to go unfreeze it. I love that tip. I mean, in this day and age, if you don't need your credit being used, like, obviously unfreeze it if you're about to apply for a mortgage or you need a new credit card or whatever. But yeah, if you don't need something right now, freeze that credit right up. I love that tip. Thank you. Freeze that baby up. I'm telling you, like I said, it's free. And you do have to remember to unfreeze it for yourself because I did try. to go open one myself and forgot that it was frozen and was immediately denied. But you know, you'll remember and it'll be worth it versus finding out that somebody took out five credit cards

under your name. But if you're not going to do that, at least make sure you're checking your credit report regularly. Awesome. All right. Do you have a money tip for us? Email money moment at bigger pockets.com. All right. Amanda, I'm super excited to talk to Vivian too today. We are talking dating and finances. And, you know, honestly, this is some information I should have had back when I was dating. It's been a minute since I was dating, but I could have probably gotten rid of a lot of those frogs that I was dating if I would have had more of this information or, you know, listened to some of the red flags, paid attention to some of the red flags that were popping up. Yeah, I always like to say, I mean, taking money and dating, which are two already really

complicated topics and combining them together just makes for a potential disaster. And I always like to say that I think that when it comes to money stuff, in relationships that people tend to paint red flags green where they're like, oh, this isn't that big of an issue. I'll, you know, I can compromise here. I can compromise there. And then those things tend to compound over time. So I'm super excited to talk to Vivian today to see what her advice is when it comes to

love and finances because it's a super complicated topic. I am excited to bring these tips to our listeners, our single listeners who might need a little bit of help with starting the conversation. Tax season is one of the only times all year. year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward,

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Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money. Choosing a life partner is one of the most important things you could do for yourself, your happiness, and your financial future. Today, we're talking with Vivian 2, Your Rich BFF, about dating and finance to help set you up for romantic and financial success. Vivian is an ex-Wall Street trader and is now the founder and CEO of Your Rich BFF Media and the host of the podcast, Net Worth and Chill. Vivian produces educational financial content on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube with over 5 million followers across these platforms. Vivian, welcome to the Bigger Pockets of Money, podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Okay, Vivian, before we jump in, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and when and how you started getting interested in finance? You know, I want to take this way back, way back, okay? So, I grew up the child of two Chinese immigrants. And so there's this massive emphasis placed on saving and, you know, they were really focused on survival. I'll be honest, like, my parents came over to the U.S. in their early 20s, and, like, we certainly did not have a lot of money growing up. But I like to think of myself as someone who's always just had it in my blood because one of my earliest memories when it comes to money is I was in the third grade.

And you know how at the beginning of the year there's like a list of school supplies that you have to get. And, you know, I was a good student. I love school supplies. I'd make my mom take me to the Target or the Walmart. And we would like get all the highlighters and the pens. And one day, we had a project where we had to take out a highlighter and like do something. And I knew for a fact that if you sat next to a buddy who was not that good at managing their school supplies, you were just going to have to lend them one. And so I knew sitting next to we'll call her. K, this girl, like, her backpack, like, this is how I knew she wasn't going to have a highlighter, was always open.

Like, it was always half open. And, like, there was just stuff falling out of it. And I knew I was going to have to lend her a highlighter. So I actually turned to her and I was like, hey, let me see what's inside of your school bag or, like, your little school box. And she had, like, half a pencil, a chewed, like a chewed eraser and a chapstick. And so I told her, I was like, listen, I will give you a highlighter. I'm not going to just lend it to you.

I'll give it to you. You can keep it. But I want the chapstick. And she was like, you know, like, I've already used this chapstick. I was like, I don't care. I just want the chapstick. Give me the chapstick. And she was like, yeah, okay.

She thinks she's getting this sweet deal. And so I give her the highlighter. I get the chapstick. And later on in the day, I took a paper clip. And I twirled up the bottom of the chapstick until there was like a little like enough out, took the paperclip, sheared off the top, like twirled it a little bit back in, cleaned it off, capped it. And then I sold the chapstick to another girl for like a dollar so that I could have a dollar to go spend. And that was how I began running an underground

chapstick entrepreneurship ring. Oh my God. Like I had no like idea where that story was going. And it was so much better than I could have ever imagined. Like, you've been, you've been a traitor since childhood. Oh my gosh. I look back on this moment. I'm like, that's like kind of gross. Vib. Like, you sold a girl, a used chapstick. But like, you got to admit, like, the hustle was there. I mean, absolutely. Like, you saw a gap in the marketplace and you went and filled it. That's one way to phrase it. Okay. So, Vivian, I have a question for you then. So, You obviously have, you know, taught yourself a lot around financial literacy, personal finance. You've been helping your friends, your colleagues, strangers on the internet, right?

But what do we do when it comes to dating and money? Because I feel like that's where things can kind of get a little tricky. So in your opinion, what are some of the biggest mistakes that people make in the area of dating and money? I think the biggest one is just like not talking to your partner about money, right? I think all of us don't want to make it weird. We don't want to bring up finances. We don't want to talk about icky topics.

Like you want this Disney Channel romance where you just, it's sunshine and butterflies all the time. And I am so sorry, but like we've seen the stat. Like 50% of marriages end. And on top of that, like, if you know that money and sex consistently rank is not, number one and two. Every year there's a new study, they switch places up and down one and two, one and two. You know for a fact, though, money and sex have been the two top reasons why couples fight. Why wouldn't you put as much effort into your money life as you do your sex life? I think we are all very, very comfortable talking about sex these days. It's great. That has really

desensitized us to a lot of that material so people can be really sex positive and we can talk comfortably about that. But like, we need to do the same where we desensitize people to talking about money because it should not be easier to talk about private parts than it is about pay. But it's not cool to talk about money. It's not a cooth to talk about money. You know what is cool? Going on that vacation to Mekanos. You know what that needs? Money. You know what's cool? Being able to buy your dream home so rover and spots can go run around the backyard. That's cool. You know what that takes? Money is cool. I'm so sorry, unless you are living off the grid. You make your own food and like you hunt your own like fish and meat and like, you know, you chop your own fire. Like I'm sorry. I'm not doing that. Okay. Like I these hands, no manual labor. I can't do that. So if you want to live a normal life in society where you participate in capitalism and. and consumerism as it stands, you need money.

And I think the argument that it's uncouth or rude or tacky to talk about money has just been like the most genius marketing play by rich people I have ever seen because I have now grown, like I grew up, I would say like middle class, upper middle class. I have now seen wealth beyond my wildest imaginations. Like, I have seen people who own islands. I have hung out with people who own full floor apartments in New York City. I know those people now. And let me tell you, we're always talking about money.

And my, my fiance, I don't golf because I am not dexterous and like, I can barely see the ball like when it goes. But, you know, like, he plays golf. And when you go to a golf course, you always see. two old dudes. They're teeing off and they're talking about their portfolios. They're talking about how much they made last year at XYZ hedge fund. They're talking about that. Why is it cool that two dudes who have a lot of money can talk about money, but two young women, two young people of color, two lower income people can't talk about money. That's so weird, don't you think? It shouldn't

be embarrassing or rude to talk about our finances. I totally agree. Yes, totally agree. hands down. And I think that you nailed it with, you know, rich people are always talking about money. And maybe the average everyday person isn't quite to that point yet. And I think that people have a really hard time just being open about money because you don't know what you don't know. Like you feel like so behind, like you should have more. But when it comes to like dating and relationships, we have to have those conversations. If we want to be going to Mekanos, hopefully our partners go in with us. If we're showing up to that wedding, hopefully they're with us, right? So at what point in a relationship or in dating, do you think that you should start asking those money questions? And then how

do you bring it up without being awkward? I say date one, but the conversation looks different, right? I think when I say talk to your partner about money or talk to your date about money, people think I'm like showing up to a first day being like, bring your pay stub. And like, that's not, that's not it. That's not like, don't like ask someone to like bring their credit report date one. Like you will get ghosted. But I think it's okay to talk about money. in a way that's really fun. So I think a common first state question that I used to ask is like, what's like the, you know, what's your dream vacation? If money was not a factor, like, what does your dream vacation look like? And it tells you deeply about someone, because if someone's

dream vacation is to go like scale Mount Everest, which is a very expensive activity, I know, because my my lash guy actually went and climbed it. It was like really impressive. But that costs tens of thousands of dollars to do versus someone who's like, oh, I want to go to an island in the Caribbean and I don't want to move for seven days and I want to drink eight. I want to constantly have a pinia colada in my hand. That tells you about someone.

That explains like what they value. Like are they an adrenaline junkie? Are they someone who really loves to like really, really relax? And that question does not come off as she's asking. me or he's asking me about money. It comes off as they're asking me about my interests. I also think like, you know, asking questions like what is, you know, the place where you would envision living long term, especially for young people because I feel like so many of us these days are like very transient. Like, you know, you live a couple years in this city, a couple years

on that city. It's like, what's your ultimate end goal? Do you want to own a penthouse in New York City? or do you want to own a single family home in L.A.? Do you want to live on the beach in Miami? Would you rather be in the mountains in Colorado? Like, again, that tells you about someone, but also their answer will explain, like, what ballpark of money they're playing in? And I think that's really helpful.

It doesn't need to be an awkward conversation because if you've already introduced those topics, then to date number two, you can talk a little bit like, oh, like, you know, tell me about your work. do you like it. Date 3, 4, 5, you're starting to get to know each other a little bit more. You got to talk about first date, like, were we splitting the bill? Are you covering the bill?

I personally am of the whoever invited should pay bill type thing. But like, if you're consistently dating someone for a longer period of time, I don't necessarily think it's fair for one person to always cover all the expenses unless there's like a serious mismatch in income. So again, these are all conversations you can start to have. down the road as you've become warmer and warmer to those topics because it's going to feel less and less awkward if you've already broached the subject. Okay, so we agree that talking about finances is important and... Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually

look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact, because the goal isn't just to look. backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax

season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch.com code pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsor jobs

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relationship and we haven't talked about money. How do you bring it up now that you're invested in somebody? I do this with my fiance. We talk about money so often, but when we first started dating and we were dating like, you know, more casually. I didn't have a ring on my finger or anything like that yet. We would sit down every two weeks or every month, whatever cadence you and your partner feel comfortable with. And we would turn a money conversation into a date date. So we would get a pizza, we would get some wine, we would have like a pint of Ben and Jerry's in the freezer waiting for us. And we would sit down and we would discuss. Like, do we have enough save for that trip to Italy this summer? Do we have enough saved to potentially, you know, move into a nicer apartment?

Should we get a new couch? All of these things. cost money and talking about that after you've gotten into a relationship can be challenging unless you make time for it. I think, Mindy, you also kind of like are asking like, how do you even broach the subject? I think it's with a lot of openness and honesty, but I would utilize a moment of spending or transition or event to bring it up. So if you have a vacation, come, up. That's an easy time to bring up the money topic because someone's got to pay for that vacation. If you are buying something new, a large couch, a large TV, like great time to talk about money because someone's paying for that item or moving. That's a huge one. I think especially since more

and more couples are living together before they actually sign any paperwork or get married or like do anything like that. You got to talk about money. And what if you start these conversations? let's say you're like, well, and maybe you're a couple of years into your relationship, and you're just now sitting down to have these conversations and you're like, all right, let's do it. And then you sit down to do that. And then you figure out that your partner has completely different money values than you. What would you recommend in that situation?

Like they want to live in a cabin in the woods and you are trying to live your high life in Miami. I think this is actually a really important pivotal moment that many people don't get to because they don't talk about money early enough. or two, they're like, I can't see these red flags. I can't read. And like, I just think it's so silly because, like, I don't think it's fair for you to attempt to change your partner fundamentally from who they are. Sure, you can train your fiance to not spit his toothpaste in the sink weird like I have. But, but like, I don't think, like, if your partner wants to live a certain life and it is drastically different from the life you want to live. I don't think it's fair to ask

either one of you to compromise. You need to really have a moment where you like come together and you're like, based on what we want, is this relationship going to work? And I think it's just as important to have these conversations about other topics too, right? Like one of you wants kids, one of you doesn't. Like it's really not fair to try and convince the person who doesn't want to have kids to want them. And it's not really okay to coerce the person who wants to have children to just not. Like, you should be able to have the life you want. But you're going to have to find a partner that matches that. And sometimes somebody who you do love is not the right match. It's not a good fit. I think that's really a great comment because if you aren't having these conversations,

I mean, I look back at some of the people that I've dated, like, oh, that would have been a terrible marriage. That would have definitely ended in divorce. And that doesn't mean that I didn't love them in the moment, but they weren't right for me long term. And I wanted to have kids. So partnering up with somebody and not talking about having kids, which I don't think is necessarily a first date conversation, but it's definitely like within the first five or 10 dates you want to know, oh, you're totally against having kids. Thank you so much. It's been nice knowing you, but we're not compatible because my life would not be complete without kids. And that doesn't mean that you're wrong that you don't want kids. The best time to not have kids is when you don't want them. But I want

them. So I don't want to continue down this path. The same point with the money. If you want to, I'm a frugal person. If you want to be this spend every dime and figure out how you're going to pay for it later kind of person, I wish you well. But that would give me so much anxiety. I would never sleep in my whole life. And that's not worth it to me. So I'm sure you're nice, but I hope you find somebody that's more compatible with your lifestyle. And again, that's an earlier in the relationship conversation. So you don't have to have heartbreak. Then you're just like, wow, that guy was really nice.

It's too bad. It didn't work out kind of thing. Wait, can I tell you guys the funniest story? Yes. I had a girlfriend who had gone on a string of good first dates and she was dating these guys. And each one of them by like, date five or six or like they were like you know whatever just like consistently they would have like a fatal flaw and the fatal flaw would be like they eventually wanted to move back to the Midwest and she wanted

to be in you know Seattle long term or they didn't want kids there was just always something wrong with them and not so much that wrong with them but like wrong with their compatibility this girl I have never seen someone approach dating this way. She, I don't know how many hours she put into this, but she was aggressively swiping on dating apps, like for a couple hours each day. And then she would go on these dates, and she would have an Excel spreadsheet of all of their names on the,

like, on the first left-hand side column, and then across the top, questions that she needed answered. So like, do you want kids? Where do you want to live? Like, what kind of job do you have? How much money do you make? Do you have debt?

Like, all of these are really hard hitting questions. And she would ask them all first date. And then she would give them a score. Oh. Based on Amanda's like cringing right now. I'm not cringing. I'm just like, that is bold. Yeah, it's super cool.

But they would get a score based on how many points they scored. So like, I guess like if you said you wanted to like live. in like Portland. Like that was better than wanting to live in like Dallas. So like that would be like a few extra points. Even though it wasn't Seattle, it was like, you know, it was good enough. And they would get a ranking out of 100. And then after every series of like 10 dates, she would then purge half of the list. And that's how she would decide who would get a second date. And then she would purge half of the list. Did they know they were being scored? No. This was all behind the scenes. Okay. Yeah. She wasn't bringing the PowerPoint deck to the

date. Well, I'm just like, does she come with a list of questions? How much money do you make? Where do you? I don't, she's, you know, she's very charismatic. She's like a very cute, nice girl. And I'm sure she worked it into the conversation very naturally. But like, when we found out about this Excel sheet, we would not stop giving her a hard time. And it was amazing because she, she lived by the motto that it's like, if you're not dating to get married, you're dating to get your heartbroken. And that's really smart. She was not trying to waste her time. She's like, I have a great job. I make a ton of money, but I'm very busy. I work, you know, 60, 80 hours a week. Like, I don't have time for this. So like, I got to know from jump if we even have the compatibility factor. And if we don't, like, I'm not going on a second date.

And I don't recommend that to everybody listening. To be clear. I mean, time is our most precious asset, right? Like, sounds like she's right. The only thing you can't buy by more of. But I do think there is some value in what she did in like almost taking a little bit of the emotion out of it because you're on a first date, you're on your second glass of wine. You're like, oh my gosh, I really like this guy. No, you just really like wine. Okay. Like, calm down. You don't like this guy. There are so many red flags you just can't see right now. And so I think like her methodology of asking the questions that were really important to her early on is really smart. I don't think you need to make an Excel sheet. I don't think you need to hit them on date one. But the sooner you

ask them, kind of the better. Like, why waste each other's time? Well, exactly. If you are looking to get married, ask that question. Hey, do you see yourself getting married? No, I never want to get married. Great. I don't even need to score the rest of you. I'm just going to cross you right off the list. Check please. Yeah. You're negative 100. Okay. So this is, this is again, more like, you know, getting to know somebody, what if you're already not just in a relationship, but you're in love with someone and you haven't had this conversation, you hear the show, you discover that you should have a conversation about money with your love, and you discover that they're in a really bad financial situation or they are so far apart from your

financial mentality. What do you do? I mean, when is it worth? breaking up with somebody and when is it worth trying to salvage a relationship? I think that has a lot to do with both people. You, I hear this phrase a lot. Like, XYZ didn't love me enough to change. Like, someone's not going to change because they love you. You need to make sure that someone loves themselves enough to want to change so that you guys can have a happy, healthy life together. But like, it's not like you take care of me, I take care

of you. It's like you take care of you and I take care of me. And that way we can work together as a team. So I think it's really important to like, again, if you're seeing like, you know, Mindy, you and I are dating. We've been dating for like four or five years. We're like kind of like talking like, ooh, like what kind of ring do you want? Yada yada. We have the money conversation. You find out. I have six figures in student loan debt. I have, you know, five figures and credit card debt. You need to really take a deep second to think about, is that something I am okay helping with, for frankly, a long time? If it's not, I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding that that's not the right

partner for you. However, if you're like, this person is amazing, like, I really want to be with them, you need to sit down and have that conversation and be like, listen, like, I'm concerned that the amount of debt you have is likely going to hinder our ability to do the things we want to do, whether that be buying a home, starting a life together in a new city because, you know, somebody got a new job because you want to go on vacation together. You want to have a great wedding. Like, you need to have that open and honest conversation. And maybe you come to speak with that person and you find out, oh, you have that much debt because your parents weren't able to help you with school. But now you have a really great plan that you are aggressively paying that

debt down. That's one conversation. That's a completely different conversation from, oh, it's no biggie. Like, I'm still putting a bunch of charges on my credit card. Like, having that plan and being like, I'm willing to tighten the belt with you over the next two, three years to really just crush this debt or get you in a better financial place. That's love. That's love and action. But if your partner who's in a bad financial position doesn't love themselves enough to want to change, trust me, you're not going to be able to be the one to do that. And frankly, when you get married to someone, when you get the government involved, it doesn't make people suddenly wake up and be better with money. Who they are before you get married is the same person

they will be after you tie the knot. I feel like a lot of people don't want to hear that. But like, I think like it's just really important. Like sometimes if someone does not value a dollar the same way you do, it's not a match. I completely agree with everything that you said. And like you said, there are some people who like they got into their six figures worth of debt for I mean, everything is for a reason, right? But like they recognize it. Maybe it's the student loans. They're a doctor now, you know, whatever. Or six figures of like student loan debt is very different than somebody who has six figures of like consumer debt. Right. So how they got in that situation, that's like a really important conversation to have. And they mean different things. Exactly. And like,

I think of some of my best girlfriends who have six figures of debt because they took on debt to go to undergrad. They took on debt to go to medical school. And they're going to become plastic surgeons. Like, you know that money is eventually coming back. You know that debt's going to get paid down. Like, both of the two people in the relationship actually have debt. So, like, great, you'll be fine. You have a plan to pay it down as soon as you start to make any sort of meaningful amount of money. It's very different than someone who's like, oh, yeah, like, I got this debt because I was like balling at the club buying tables. Like, it's also, you know, it's also, very different to be like, oh, I have $15,000 in credit card debt because I got a kidney stone,

didn't have insurance at the time, had to put a charge on here to not completely blow up my credit school. Like, there is just truly, we are all just doing the best with what we can, with what we have. And debt is just a financial tool. Some people are taught how to use it better than others. In the same way that like when rich people borrow money, we call it leverage. When poor people borrow money, we call it debt. Like, debt is not morally good or bad. And I think that we should stop thinking of it as something that like only like shameful and embarrassing, like bad people do. Like every people use debt.

It is what it is. And when you have debt, the type of debt you have is important, but also just do you have a plan? Do you have any idea what you're going to do if you come into a windfall of money? are you going to pay it down? Are you going to invest instead? Or are you going to go blow it at designer shopping? Because those are three very different scenarios and you got to, you know, understand who you are with. I totally agree. And I think that is like what's going to make a longstanding partnership, right? So then what about when it comes to actually like sitting down and doing the financial planning together as a couple? Do you think it is okay for like one person to manage all of the money?

No, no. Do you think it needs to be a joint? thing. What do you think that looks like? I already hear you. You say no. I didn't even mean to cut you off, but like that question gives me the he be-jeebies because I have gotten so many DMs in particular from women. I'll be honest, that are like, you know, unfortunately, like my late husband just passed away. I have no idea what like any of the passwords to the accounts are. I don't know how much money we have. I don't know what to do. And that is terrifying. This is the family. emergency binder from Smart Money Mamas. It is the finance planner that you need before your spouse passes away. If your spouse is doing all of the, or your partner is doing all of the planning,

this has all of the passwords, all of the accounts, all of the everything. So you can plan for a financial emergency. I love this. It comes as a little keychain USB thing. And it also comes as a a printable document so you can fill it all out if you have like maybe your tech averse um but yeah all the things that you need because you're absolutely right i just spoke at a conference for widows and that was the number one question that i got afterwards was i don't know where to start i'm in this you know i've got all these papers but i don't know what any of them mean because he did the the planning. And frankly, I would say like a situation where like your partner passes and you've been together for a very long time. You're happy like you were happily together. Like when I get those

DMs, I'm like, this is so tragic and like upsetting. But eventually, like if you guys have put together, you know, a decent like will or there's a trust setup or there's some sort of like documentation that like, you know, things are going to be left to you. At least you'll eventually. You'll eventually. get it. The other story that I get a lot is like, I just caught my partner cheating. And now I'm locked out of all the accounts and all of this is being switched up and we're filing for divorce. I haven't worked in the past 10 years because I was kind of given this promise that like I would be the homemaker. I would take care of the kids. I gave up my career to do that. And now I don't have anything to my name. And that actually really, really upsets me. I think every,

single partnership. Don't care if it's, you know, a traditional setup where there's one bread winner and one person who stays at home. Don't care if it's two people who go to work. Don't care if y'all are just living off of somebody's grandpods inheritance. I don't care. Like, you need to have the conversation about how you're spending, where that money's coming from, what your expenses are, what you're saving for, what you're investing in together. Because if you don't and somebody doesn't know what's going on, you're going to be in a bad place, if anything were to happen. And I also think it's important, and I say this to, you know, any of the women listening, have your own money. Have your own rainy day bank account.

This is like your runaway money. Like, what's that movie with Julia Roberts? Sleeping with the enemy. Yes. Like, you need to have like your runaway money. Like, you have to have money for a rainy day. And thankfully, in many cases, you won't need it. Most of us have decent partners. And if you don't have a decent partner and you have a very horrible, you know, terrible, acrimonious end to your marriage, like, that's it. That's fine. But like, if you are in a dangerous situation, which many people do end up in, you have to

have rainy day runaway money. Vivian, I think that's a very, very powerful note to end on. Do you have anything final to share with our listeners? Yeah. always date someone who makes you feel big. I have had partners who dimmed my light because they could not shine bright enough to keep up with me. And damn, does that suck to try and make yourself feel small and fit into a box so that person could feel better about themselves? No, you deserve to be 100% you.

deserve to be the best version of you you can be. And if you find a partner that helps you feel big, not only will you get to feel the best and do your best, have the best career you could possibly have, live the best life you could possibly live, but they're going to help improve you as a person. I say this all the time, but the reason I'm marrying my fiancee is because he makes me a better person. He is my sounding board. He is my confidant. He is my biggest cheerleader. and when I'm having a bad day, he knows exactly which sushi spot to order from and how to rub my back the way that I like it. And, you know, I think having a supportive, conscientious partner is going to take you a really long way because it allows you to take risks and make strategic jumps in your life when you have opportunities arise versus turning them down at the fear that you doing good and getting an opportunity means that they have missed out on one. Yes.

just because I get an opportunity doesn't mean that you're less than. And just because you get an opportunity doesn't mean that I'm less than where your success is my success. My success is your success. I love that for you. I love that for you. And I hope that everybody listening has that too. And if they don't, you know, take a look at your relationship and see is this really, really what you want? And be honest, because you only get one life. All right, Vivian, if somebody were to look you up online, where would they find you? You can find me across all social media as your rich BFF. Oh, I love it. Okay, Vivian, you are my new BFF. I love rich BFFs. And thank you so much for your time today. This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate you sharing your relationship and money perspective.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. We will talk to you soon. All right, that was Vivian, too, talking about dating and finance. I really loved what she had to say today. about finances and relationships. You know, I've been married for 21 years, almost 22 years, and I can say from experience, communication is the key to a successful marriage, communication about everything, money, household chores, investments, vacations, life plans, literally anything and everything you should speak to your partner about. If you want your partner to know something, you have to tell them.

And if you want to know something from your partner, you have to ask. And I really liked what Vivian, Vivian's advice on how to get these conversations started, especially in a newer relationship, because it can be kind of awkward to talk about money. Amanda, what did you think of the show? Yeah, I loved it. And, you know, I think you're totally spot on that we can't read each other's minds and as uncomfortable as it can be, the earlier we can have conversations around money and relationships, the better. But I really, really loved what she said toward the end where, you know, her biggest piece of advice when it comes. to dating and relationships is to find someone who does not dull your light. And I felt like she was a light force just coming through the screen here, coming through the microphone. And I think

she hit the nail on the head because a lot of times in relationships, we feel so, you know, maybe we fall in lust or love. And then we end up making compromises on who we are as a person, things that we want in life, different types of goals in our lives. And, you know, find that person who's going to help you shine your light brighter and not dull it. And I do think that involving conversations around money and what those goals and, you know, life will look like early on is, is really important. And I loved, I loved that takeaway from the show. Yep, I did too. Find somebody who was a true partner in your life. It is, it is your life partner. And you should be happy with this. But isn't that every, I mean, there's always going to be.

issues, but you should overwhelmingly be more happy than unhappy with your partner. Okay, Amanda, if somebody were looking to find you online, where would they find you? Well, you can find me She Wolf of Wall Street. That's Wolf with an E.com, which is my website or across any of the social media platforms, She Wolf of Wall Street. All right. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. Big thanks to Amanda for joining me today in the co-host seat.

She is Amanda Wolf, the She Wolf. of Wall Street. I am Mindy Jensen saying time to sail, Orca Whale. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash Bigger Pockets Money. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kaelin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.