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457: Money and Relationships: How to Have “The Talk” Before It’s Too Late w/Vivian Tu AKA “Your Rich BFF”

October 9, 20230 comments♥ 0
00:00Hello, my dear listeners, and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast, where we talkmoney and dating with Vivian 2, My Rich BFF.Hello, hello, hello.My name is Mindy Jensen.And with me today is the She-Wolf of Wall Street, Amanda Wolf.Amanda, I'm so excited you can join me.I'm so excited to be here.It's always lovely to talk to you, and it's always lovely to have you in the co-host position.
00:24So thank you so much for your time.Amanda and I are here to make financial independence less scary.less just for somebody else to introduce you to every money story because we truly believefinancial freedom is attainable for everyone no matter when or where you're starting. Whether you wantto retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate,or start your own business will help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the wayso you can launch yourself toward your dreams. Let's move on to our money moment where we share a moneyhack, tip, or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today's money moment is one that might
01:00seem a little bit obvious, but check your credit report regularly. This is a good way to make surethere isn't any fraud and to keep track of your credit score and your financial progress.And it's important for a few reasons because fun story, not so fun story, because last year I wasalmost a victim of identity fraud. So luckily, I had signed up for all of the credit report alertsand I got an alert that I had signed up for a new credit card, did not, went on and realized thatit's actually kind of like a free-for-all if somebody has your information to apply for any type ofcredit. So my tip on top of all of this would be to freeze your credit with all three of the maincredit bureaus, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax. So that is free to do. You just go onto their site.
01:48They'll try to sell you stuff along the way, but it's free to do. Just hit that freeze button.and then the next time that you personally want to go take out a line of credit, you just have to go unfreeze it.I love that tip. I mean, in this day and age, if you don't need your credit being used, like,obviously unfreeze it if you're about to apply for a mortgage or you need a new credit card or whatever.But yeah, if you don't need something right now, freeze that credit right up. I love that tip.Thank you. Freeze that baby up. I'm telling you, like I said, it's free. And you do have to remember to unfreeze it for yourself because I did try.to go open one myself and forgot that it was frozen and was immediately denied. But you know,you'll remember and it'll be worth it versus finding out that somebody took out five credit cards
02:31under your name. But if you're not going to do that, at least make sure you're checking yourcredit report regularly. Awesome. All right. Do you have a money tip for us? Email money moment at biggerpockets.com. All right. Amanda, I'm super excited to talk to Vivian too today. We are talking datingand finances. And, you know, honestly, this is some information I should have had back when I wasdating. It's been a minute since I was dating, but I could have probably gotten rid of a lot ofthose frogs that I was dating if I would have had more of this information or, you know, listened tosome of the red flags, paid attention to some of the red flags that were popping up.Yeah, I always like to say, I mean, taking money and dating, which are two already really
03:11complicated topics and combining them together just makes for a potential disaster. And I always liketo say that I think that when it comes to money stuff,in relationships that people tend to paint red flags green where they're like, oh, this isn'tthat big of an issue.I'll, you know, I can compromise here.I can compromise there.And then those things tend to compound over time.So I'm super excited to talk to Vivian today to see what her advice is when it comes to
03:36love and finances because it's a super complicated topic.I am excited to bring these tips to our listeners, our single listeners who might need a littlebit of help with starting the conversation.Tax season is one of the only times all year.year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending,savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening.That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly,where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward,
04:07it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-onepersonal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life,including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in onedashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax seasonand get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code Pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keepsyou focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals,and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in Edle. Achieve your financial goalsfor good with Monarch, the all in one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code
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05:52I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck.At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still regularlyre-listen to the highest impact titles.Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for ParentingPerspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being.What makes Audible so powerful is its breadth.Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app.If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years.
06:32Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money.Choosing a life partner is one of the most important things you could do for yourself, your happiness,and your financial future. Today, we're talking with Vivian 2, Your Rich BFF, about dating and financeto help set you up for romantic and financial success. Vivian is an ex-Wall Street trader and is nowthe founder and CEO of Your Rich BFF Media and the host of the podcast, Net Worth and Chill. Vivianproduces educational financial content on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube with over 5 millionfollowers across these platforms. Vivian, welcome to the Bigger Pockets of Money,podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.
07:22Okay, Vivian, before we jump in, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and when and how youstarted getting interested in finance? You know, I want to take this way back, way back, okay? So,I grew up the child of two Chinese immigrants. And so there's this massive emphasis placed on savingand, you know, they were really focused on survival.I'll be honest, like, my parents came over to the U.S. in their early 20s,and, like, we certainly did not have a lot of money growing up.But I like to think of myself as someone who's always just had it in my bloodbecause one of my earliest memories when it comes to money is I was in the third grade.
08:08And you know how at the beginning of the year there's like a list of school supplies that you have toget. And, you know, I was a good student. I love school supplies. I'd make my mom take me to theTarget or the Walmart. And we would like get all the highlighters and the pens. And one day,we had a project where we had to take out a highlighter and like do something. And I knew for a factthat if you sat next to a buddy who was not that good at managing their school supplies,you were just going to have to lend them one. And so I knew sitting next to we'll call her.K, this girl, like, her backpack, like, this is how I knew she wasn't going to have a highlighter,was always open.
08:51Like, it was always half open.And, like, there was just stuff falling out of it.And I knew I was going to have to lend her a highlighter.So I actually turned to her and I was like, hey, let me see what's inside of your school bag or, like,your little school box.And she had, like, half a pencil, a chewed, like a chewed eraser and a chapstick.And so I told her, I was like, listen, I will give you a highlighter.I'm not going to just lend it to you.
09:16I'll give it to you.You can keep it.But I want the chapstick.And she was like, you know, like, I've already used this chapstick.I was like, I don't care.I just want the chapstick.Give me the chapstick.And she was like, yeah, okay.
09:27She thinks she's getting this sweet deal.And so I give her the highlighter.I get the chapstick.And later on in the day, I took a paper clip.And I twirled up the bottom of the chapstick until there was like a littlelike enough out, took the paperclip, sheared off the top, like twirled it a little bit back in,cleaned it off, capped it. And then I sold the chapstick to another girl for like a dollarso that I could have a dollar to go spend. And that was how I began running an underground
10:02chapstick entrepreneurship ring. Oh my God. Like I had no like idea where that story was going. And it was somuch better than I could have ever imagined. Like, you've been, you've been a traitor since childhood.Oh my gosh. I look back on this moment. I'm like, that's like kind of gross. Vib. Like,you sold a girl, a used chapstick. But like, you got to admit, like, the hustle was there.I mean, absolutely. Like, you saw a gap in the marketplace and you went and filled it. That's one way tophrase it. Okay. So, Vivian, I have a question for you then. So,You obviously have, you know, taught yourself a lot around financial literacy, personal finance.You've been helping your friends, your colleagues, strangers on the internet, right?
10:52But what do we do when it comes to dating and money?Because I feel like that's where things can kind of get a little tricky.So in your opinion, what are some of the biggest mistakes that people make in the area of datingand money?I think the biggest one is just like not talking to your partner about money, right?I think all of us don't want to make it weird.We don't want to bring up finances.We don't want to talk about icky topics.
11:18Like you want this Disney Channel romance where you just, it's sunshine and butterflies all the time.And I am so sorry, but like we've seen the stat.Like 50% of marriages end.And on top of that, like, if you know that money and sex consistently rank is not,number one and two. Every year there's a new study, they switch places up and down one and two,one and two. You know for a fact, though, money and sex have been the two top reasons why couplesfight. Why wouldn't you put as much effort into your money life as you do your sex life?I think we are all very, very comfortable talking about sex these days. It's great. That has really
12:02desensitized us to a lot of that material so people can be really sex positive and we can talkcomfortably about that. But like, we need to do the same where we desensitize people to talking aboutmoney because it should not be easier to talk about private parts than it is about pay. But it's notcool to talk about money. It's not a cooth to talk about money. You know what is cool? Going onthat vacation to Mekanos. You know what that needs? Money. You know what's cool? Being able tobuy your dream home so rover and spots can go run around the backyard.That's cool. You know what that takes? Money is cool. I'm so sorry, unless you are living off the grid. You make your own food and like you hunt your own like fish and meat and like, you know, you chop your own fire. Like I'm sorry. I'm not doing that. Okay. Like I these hands, no manual labor. I can't do that. So if you want to live a normal life in society where you participate in capitalism and.and consumerism as it stands, you need money.
13:10And I think the argument that it's uncouth or rude or tacky to talk about moneyhas just been like the most genius marketing play by rich people I have ever seenbecause I have now grown, like I grew up, I would say like middle class, upper middle class.I have now seen wealth beyond my wildest imaginations.Like, I have seen people who own islands.I have hung out with people who own full floor apartments in New York City.I know those people now.And let me tell you, we're always talking about money.
13:52And my, my fiance, I don't golf because I am not dexterous and like, I can barelysee the ball like when it goes.But, you know, like, he plays golf.And when you go to a golf course, you always see.two old dudes. They're teeing off and they're talking about their portfolios. They're talking abouthow much they made last year at XYZ hedge fund. They're talking about that. Why is it cool thattwo dudes who have a lot of money can talk about money, but two young women, two young people ofcolor, two lower income people can't talk about money. That's so weird, don't you think? It shouldn't
14:30be embarrassing or rude to talk about our finances. I totally agree. Yes, totally agree.hands down. And I think that you nailed it with, you know, rich people are always talking about money.And maybe the average everyday person isn't quite to that point yet. And I think that people have areally hard time just being open about money because you don't know what you don't know.Like you feel like so behind, like you should have more. But when it comes to like dating and relationships,we have to have those conversations. If we want to be going to Mekanos, hopefully our partners go inwith us. If we're showing up to that wedding, hopefully they're with us, right? So at what point in arelationship or in dating, do you think that you should start asking those money questions? And then how
15:09do you bring it up without being awkward? I say date one, but the conversation looks different, right?I think when I say talk to your partner about money or talk to your date about money,people think I'm like showing up to a first day being like, bring your pay stub. And like, that's not,that's not it. That's not like, don't like ask someone to like bring their credit report date one.Like you will get ghosted. But I think it's okay to talk about money.in a way that's really fun. So I think a common first state question that I used to ask is like,what's like the, you know, what's your dream vacation? If money was not a factor, like,what does your dream vacation look like? And it tells you deeply about someone, because if someone's
15:53dream vacation is to go like scale Mount Everest, which is a very expensive activity, I know,because my my lash guy actually went and climbed it.It was like really impressive.But that costs tens of thousands of dollars to do versus someone who's like, oh, I want togo to an island in the Caribbean and I don't want to move for seven days and I want todrink eight.I want to constantly have a pinia colada in my hand.That tells you about someone.
16:21That explains like what they value.Like are they an adrenaline junkie?Are they someone who really loves to like really, really relax?And that question does not come off as she's asking.me or he's asking me about money. It comes off as they're asking me about my interests.I also think like, you know, asking questions like what is, you know, the place where you wouldenvision living long term, especially for young people because I feel like so many of us thesedays are like very transient. Like, you know, you live a couple years in this city, a couple years
16:55on that city. It's like, what's your ultimate end goal? Do you want to own a penthouse in New York City?or do you want to own a single family home in L.A.?Do you want to live on the beach in Miami?Would you rather be in the mountains in Colorado?Like, again, that tells you about someone,but also their answer will explain, like,what ballpark of money they're playing in?And I think that's really helpful.
17:20It doesn't need to be an awkward conversationbecause if you've already introduced those topics,then to date number two, you can talk a little bit like,oh, like, you know, tell me about your work.do you like it.Date 3, 4, 5, you're starting to get to know each other a little bit more.You got to talk about first date, like, were we splitting the bill?Are you covering the bill?
17:42I personally am of the whoever invited should pay bill type thing.But like, if you're consistently dating someone for a longer period of time,I don't necessarily think it's fair for one person to always cover all the expensesunless there's like a serious mismatch in income.So again, these are all conversations you can start to have.down the road as you've become warmer and warmer to those topics because it's going to feelless and less awkward if you've already broached the subject. Okay, so we agree that talking aboutfinances is important and... Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually
18:15look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the wholething. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch.It helps you see exactly where your money is going and more importantly, where your tax refund can makethe biggest impact, because the goal isn't just to look.backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-onepersonal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life,including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in onedashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax
18:47season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is thatMonarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets,debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves inneedle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money managementsimple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at Monarch.comcode pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you findamazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need.That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsor jobs
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20:01Just go to Indeed.com slash bigger pockets right nowand support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.Indeed.com slash bigger pockets.Terms and conditions apply.Hiring, Indeed is all you need.When you want more, start your business with Northwest registered agentand get access to thousands of free guides, tools, and legal formsto help you launch and protect your business all in one place.
20:22Build your complete business identity with NorthwestToday. Northwest registered agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurslaunch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years.They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S.With over 1,500 corporate guides who are real people who know your local lawsand can help you and your business every step of the way.Northwest makes life easy for business owners.They don't just help you form your business.
20:44They give you the free tools you need after you form it,like operating agreements, meeting minutes,and thousands of how-to guides that explain the complicatedins and outs of running a business. And with Northwest, privacy is automatic. They never sell your data.And all services are handled in-house because privacy by default is their pledge to all customers.Visit Northwest Registeredagent.com slash money-free and start building something amazing.Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registeredagent.com slash money-free.I know there are people who are listening to this show who are saying, okay, but I'm already in a
21:19relationship and we haven't talked about money. How do you bring it up now that you're invested insomebody? I do this with my fiance. We talk about money so often, but when we first started datingand we were dating like, you know, more casually. I didn't have a ring on my finger or anythinglike that yet. We would sit down every two weeks or every month, whatever cadence you and your partnerfeel comfortable with. And we would turn a money conversation into a date date. So we would get a pizza,we would get some wine, we would have like a pint of Ben and Jerry's in the freezer waiting for us.And we would sit down and we would discuss. Like, do we have enough save for that trip to Italythis summer? Do we have enough saved to potentially, you know, move into a nicer apartment?
22:14Should we get a new couch? All of these things.cost money and talking about that after you've gotten into a relationship can be challenging unlessyou make time for it. I think, Mindy, you also kind of like are asking like, how do you even broachthe subject? I think it's with a lot of openness and honesty, but I would utilize a moment ofspending or transition or event to bring it up. So if you have a vacation, come,up. That's an easy time to bring up the money topic because someone's got to pay for that vacation.If you are buying something new, a large couch, a large TV, like great time to talk about moneybecause someone's paying for that item or moving. That's a huge one. I think especially since more
23:03and more couples are living together before they actually sign any paperwork or get married orlike do anything like that. You got to talk about money. And what if you start these conversations?let's say you're like, well, and maybe you're a couple of years into your relationship,and you're just now sitting down to have these conversations and you're like, all right,let's do it.And then you sit down to do that.And then you figure out that your partner has completely different money values than you.What would you recommend in that situation?
23:31Like they want to live in a cabin in the woods and you are trying to live your high life in Miami.I think this is actually a really important pivotal moment that many people don't get to becausethey don't talk about money early enough.or two, they're like, I can't see these red flags. I can't read. And like, I just think it's sosilly because, like, I don't think it's fair for you to attempt to change your partner fundamentallyfrom who they are. Sure, you can train your fiance to not spit his toothpaste in the sinkweird like I have. But, but like, I don't think, like, if your partner wants to live a certainlife and it is drastically different from the life you want to live. I don't think it's fair to ask
24:18either one of you to compromise. You need to really have a moment where you like come together andyou're like, based on what we want, is this relationship going to work? And I think it's just asimportant to have these conversations about other topics too, right? Like one of you wants kids,one of you doesn't. Like it's really not fair to try and convince the person who doesn't want to havekids to want them. And it's not really okay to coerce the person who wants to have children to justnot. Like, you should be able to have the life you want. But you're going to have to find a partnerthat matches that. And sometimes somebody who you do love is not the right match. It's not a goodfit. I think that's really a great comment because if you aren't having these conversations,
25:03I mean, I look back at some of the people that I've dated, like, oh, that would have been a terriblemarriage. That would have definitely ended in divorce. And that doesn't mean that I didn't love themin the moment, but they weren't right for me long term. And I wanted to have kids. So partnering upwith somebody and not talking about having kids, which I don't think is necessarily a first dateconversation, but it's definitely like within the first five or 10 dates you want to know,oh, you're totally against having kids. Thank you so much. It's been nice knowing you, but we're notcompatible because my life would not be complete without kids. And that doesn't mean that you're wrongthat you don't want kids. The best time to not have kids is when you don't want them. But I want
25:46them. So I don't want to continue down this path. The same point with the money. If you want to,I'm a frugal person. If you want to be this spend every dime and figure out how you're going topay for it later kind of person, I wish you well. But that would give me so much anxiety. I wouldnever sleep in my whole life. And that's not worth it to me.So I'm sure you're nice, but I hope you find somebody that's more compatible with your lifestyle.And again, that's an earlier in the relationship conversation.So you don't have to have heartbreak.Then you're just like, wow, that guy was really nice.
26:21It's too bad.It didn't work out kind of thing.Wait, can I tell you guys the funniest story?Yes.I had a girlfriend who had gone on a string of good first dates and she was dating these guys.And each one of them by like,date five or six or like they were like you know whatever just like consistently they would have like a fatalflaw and the fatal flaw would be like they eventually wanted to move back to the Midwest and she wanted
26:49to be in you know Seattle long term or they didn't want kids there was just always something wrong withthem and not so much that wrong with them but like wrong with their compatibility this girlI have never seen someone approach dating this way.She, I don't know how many hours she put into this,but she was aggressively swiping on dating apps,like for a couple hours each day.And then she would go on these dates,and she would have an Excel spreadsheet of all of their names on the,
27:25like, on the first left-hand side column,and then across the top,questions that she needed answered.So like, do you want kids?Where do you want to live?Like, what kind of job do you have?How much money do you make?Do you have debt?
27:39Like, all of these are really hard hitting questions.And she would ask them all first date.And then she would give them a score.Oh.Based on Amanda's like cringing right now.I'm not cringing.I'm just like, that is bold.Yeah, it's super cool.
27:56But they would get a score based on how many points they scored.So like, I guess like if you said you wanted to like live.in like Portland. Like that was better than wanting to live in like Dallas. So like that would be like a fewextra points. Even though it wasn't Seattle, it was like, you know, it was good enough.And they would get a ranking out of 100. And then after every series of like 10 dates, she would thenpurge half of the list. And that's how she would decide who would get a second date. And then she wouldpurge half of the list. Did they know they were being scored? No. This was all behind the scenes.Okay. Yeah. She wasn't bringing the PowerPoint deck to the
28:33date. Well, I'm just like, does she come with a list of questions? How much money do you make? Where do you?I don't, she's, you know, she's very charismatic. She's like a very cute, nice girl. And I'm sure she worked it into theconversation very naturally. But like, when we found out about this Excel sheet, we would not stop giving her ahard time. And it was amazing because she, she lived by the motto that it's like, if you're not dating to getmarried, you're dating to get your heartbroken. And that's really smart. She was not trying to wasteher time. She's like, I have a great job. I make a ton of money, but I'm very busy. I work,you know, 60, 80 hours a week. Like, I don't have time for this. So like, I got to know fromjump if we even have the compatibility factor. And if we don't, like, I'm not going on a second date.
29:19And I don't recommend that to everybody listening. To be clear. I mean, time is our most preciousasset, right? Like, sounds like she's right. The only thing you can't buy by more of. But I do thinkthere is some value in what she did in like almost taking a little bit of the emotion out of itbecause you're on a first date, you're on your second glass of wine. You're like, oh my gosh, I reallylike this guy. No, you just really like wine. Okay. Like, calm down. You don't like this guy.There are so many red flags you just can't see right now. And so I think like her methodology ofasking the questions that were really important to her early on is really smart. I don't thinkyou need to make an Excel sheet. I don't think you need to hit them on date one. But the sooner you
30:03ask them, kind of the better. Like, why waste each other's time? Well, exactly. If you arelooking to get married, ask that question. Hey, do you see yourself getting married? No, I never wantto get married. Great. I don't even need to score the rest of you. I'm just going to cross youright off the list. Check please. Yeah. You're negative 100. Okay. So this is, this is again,more like, you know, getting to know somebody, what if you're already not just in a relationship,but you're in love with someone and you haven't had this conversation, you hear the show,you discover that you should have a conversation about money with your love, and you discoverthat they're in a really bad financial situation or they are so far apart from your
30:53financial mentality. What do you do? I mean, when is it worth?breaking up with somebody and when is it worth trying to salvage a relationship?I think that has a lot to do with both people.You, I hear this phrase a lot.Like, XYZ didn't love me enough to change.Like, someone's not going to change because they love you.You need to make sure that someone loves themselves enough to want to change so that you guyscan have a happy, healthy life together. But like, it's not like you take care of me, I take care
31:31of you. It's like you take care of you and I take care of me. And that way we can work together as a team.So I think it's really important to like, again, if you're seeing like, you know, Mindy, you and I are dating.We've been dating for like four or five years. We're like kind of like talking like, ooh, like what kind of ring do you want?Yada yada. We have the money conversation. You find out. I have six figures in student loan debt.I have, you know, five figures and credit card debt.You need to really take a deep second to think about, is that something I am okayhelping with, for frankly, a long time?If it's not, I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding that that's not the right
32:21partner for you. However, if you're like, this person is amazing, like, I really want to be withthem, you need to sit down and have that conversation and be like, listen, like, I'm concernedthat the amount of debt you have is likely going to hinder our ability to do the things we wantto do, whether that be buying a home, starting a life together in a new city because, you know,somebody got a new job because you want to go on vacation together. You want to have a greatwedding. Like, you need to have that open and honest conversation. And maybe you come to speak withthat person and you find out, oh, you have that much debt because your parents weren't able tohelp you with school. But now you have a really great plan that you are aggressively paying that
33:10debt down. That's one conversation. That's a completely different conversation from, oh, it's nobiggie. Like, I'm still putting a bunch of charges on my credit card. Like, having thatplan and being like, I'm willing to tighten the belt with you over the next two, three yearsto really just crush this debt or get you in a better financial place. That's love. That's love andaction. But if your partner who's in a bad financial position doesn't love themselves enoughto want to change, trust me, you're not going to be able to be the one to do that. And frankly,when you get married to someone, when you get the government involved, it doesn't make peoplesuddenly wake up and be better with money. Who they are before you get married is the same person
33:54they will be after you tie the knot. I feel like a lot of people don't want to hear that. But like,I think like it's just really important. Like sometimes if someone does not value a dollar thesame way you do, it's not a match. I completely agree with everything that you said. And like you said,there are some people who like they got into their six figures worth of debt for I mean,everything is for a reason, right? But like they recognize it. Maybe it's the student loans. They're adoctor now, you know, whatever. Or six figures of like student loan debt is very different thansomebody who has six figures of like consumer debt. Right. So how they got in that situation,that's like a really important conversation to have. And they mean different things. Exactly. And like,
34:34I think of some of my best girlfriends who have six figures of debt because they tookon debt to go to undergrad. They took on debt to go to medical school. And they're going to becomeplastic surgeons. Like, you know that money is eventually coming back. You know that debt's going toget paid down. Like, both of the two people in the relationship actually have debt. So, like,great, you'll be fine. You have a plan to pay it down as soon as you start to make any sort ofmeaningful amount of money. It's very different than someone who's like, oh, yeah, like, I got thisdebt because I was like balling at the club buying tables. Like, it's also, you know, it's also,very different to be like, oh, I have $15,000 in credit card debt because I got a kidney stone,
35:19didn't have insurance at the time, had to put a charge on here to not completely blow up my creditschool. Like, there is just truly, we are all just doing the best with what we can, with what we have.And debt is just a financial tool. Some people are taught how to use it better than others.In the same way that like when rich people borrow money, we call it leverage.When poor people borrow money, we call it debt.Like, debt is not morally good or bad.And I think that we should stop thinking of it as something that like only like shameful and embarrassing, like bad people do.Like every people use debt.
35:53It is what it is.And when you have debt, the type of debt you have is important, but also just do you have a plan?Do you have any idea what you're going to do if you come into a windfall of money?are you going to pay it down? Are you going to invest instead? Or are you going to go blow it at designershopping? Because those are three very different scenarios and you got to, you know, understand who you arewith. I totally agree. And I think that is like what's going to make a longstanding partnership,right? So then what about when it comes to actually like sitting down and doing the financial planningtogether as a couple? Do you think it is okay for like one person to manage all of the money?
36:34No, no. Do you think it needs to be a joint?thing. What do you think that looks like? I already hear you. You say no. I didn't even mean to cut you off,but like that question gives me the he be-jeebies because I have gotten so many DMs in particularfrom women. I'll be honest, that are like, you know, unfortunately, like my late husband justpassed away. I have no idea what like any of the passwords to the accounts are. I don't know how muchmoney we have. I don't know what to do. And that is terrifying. This is the family.emergency binder from Smart Money Mamas. It is the finance planner that you need before your spousepasses away. If your spouse is doing all of the, or your partner is doing all of the planning,
37:19this has all of the passwords, all of the accounts, all of the everything. So you can plan for afinancial emergency. I love this. It comes as a little keychain USB thing. And it also comes as aa printable document so you can fill it all out if you have like maybe your tech averse um but yeah allthe things that you need because you're absolutely right i just spoke at a conference for widowsand that was the number one question that i got afterwards was i don't know where to start i'min this you know i've got all these papers but i don't know what any of them mean because he did thethe planning. And frankly, I would say like a situation where like your partner passes and you'vebeen together for a very long time. You're happy like you were happily together. Like when I get those
38:17DMs, I'm like, this is so tragic and like upsetting. But eventually, like if you guys have puttogether, you know, a decent like will or there's a trust setup or there's some sort of like documentationthat like, you know, things are going to be left to you. At least you'll eventually. You'll eventually.get it. The other story that I get a lot is like, I just caught my partner cheating. And now I'mlocked out of all the accounts and all of this is being switched up and we're filing for divorce.I haven't worked in the past 10 years because I was kind of given this promise that like I wouldbe the homemaker. I would take care of the kids. I gave up my career to do that. And now I don'thave anything to my name. And that actually really, really upsets me. I think every,
39:04single partnership. Don't care if it's, you know, a traditional setup where there's one breadwinner and one person who stays at home. Don't care if it's two people who go to work.Don't care if y'all are just living off of somebody's grandpods inheritance. I don't care.Like, you need to have the conversation about how you're spending, where that money's comingfrom, what your expenses are, what you're saving for, what you're investing in together.Because if you don't and somebody doesn't know what's going on, you're going to be in a badplace, if anything were to happen. And I also think it's important, and I say this to,you know, any of the women listening, have your own money. Have your own rainy day bank account.
39:46This is like your runaway money. Like, what's that movie with Julia Roberts? Sleeping with theenemy. Yes. Like, you need to have like your runaway money. Like, you have to have money for a rainy day.And thankfully, in many cases, you won't need it.Most of us have decent partners.And if you don't have a decent partner and you have a very horrible, you know, terrible,acrimonious end to your marriage, like, that's it.That's fine.But like, if you are in a dangerous situation, which many people do end up in, you have to
40:23have rainy day runaway money.Vivian, I think that's a very, very powerful note to end on.Do you have anything final to share with our listeners?Yeah.always date someone who makes you feel big.I have had partners who dimmed my light because they could not shine bright enough to keep up with me.And damn, does that suck to try and make yourself feel small and fit into a box so that person could feel better about themselves?No, you deserve to be 100% you.
41:01deserve to be the best version of you you can be. And if you find a partner that helps you feelbig, not only will you get to feel the best and do your best, have the best career you couldpossibly have, live the best life you could possibly live, but they're going to help improve youas a person. I say this all the time, but the reason I'm marrying my fiancee is because he makesme a better person. He is my sounding board. He is my confidant. He is my biggest cheerleader.and when I'm having a bad day, he knows exactly which sushi spot to order from and how to rub my back the way that I like it.And, you know, I think having a supportive, conscientious partner is going to take you a really long way because it allows you to take risks and make strategic jumps in your life when you have opportunities arise versus turning them down at the fear that you doing good and getting an opportunity means that they have missed out on one.Yes.
41:58just because I get an opportunity doesn't mean that you're less than. And just because you get anopportunity doesn't mean that I'm less than where your success is my success. My success is yoursuccess. I love that for you. I love that for you. And I hope that everybody listening has thattoo. And if they don't, you know, take a look at your relationship and see is this really, reallywhat you want? And be honest, because you only get one life. All right, Vivian, if somebody were to lookyou up online, where would they find you? You can find me across all social media as your rich BFF.Oh, I love it. Okay, Vivian, you are my new BFF. I love rich BFFs. And thank you so much for your time today.This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate you sharing your relationship and money perspective.
42:47Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. We will talk to you soon. All right, that was Vivian,too, talking about dating and finance. I really loved what she had to say today.about finances and relationships.You know, I've been married for 21 years, almost 22 years, and I can say from experience,communication is the key to a successful marriage, communication about everything, money,household chores, investments, vacations, life plans, literally anything and everything you shouldspeak to your partner about.If you want your partner to know something, you have to tell them.
43:20And if you want to know something from your partner, you have to ask.And I really liked what Vivian, Vivian's advice on how to get these conversations started, especially in a newer relationship, because it can be kind of awkward to talk about money.Amanda, what did you think of the show?Yeah, I loved it.And, you know, I think you're totally spot on that we can't read each other's minds and as uncomfortable as it can be, the earlier we can have conversations around money and relationships, the better.But I really, really loved what she said toward the end where, you know, her biggest piece of advice when it comes.to dating and relationships is to find someone who does not dull your light. And I felt like shewas a light force just coming through the screen here, coming through the microphone. And I think
44:06she hit the nail on the head because a lot of times in relationships, we feel so, you know,maybe we fall in lust or love. And then we end up making compromises on who we are as a person,things that we want in life, different types of goals in our lives. And, you know, find that personwho's going to help you shine your light brighter and not dull it. And I do think that involvingconversations around money and what those goals and, you know, life will look like early on is,is really important. And I loved, I loved that takeaway from the show. Yep, I did too. Find somebody whowas a true partner in your life. It is, it is your life partner. And you should be happy withthis. But isn't that every, I mean, there's always going to be.
44:50issues, but you should overwhelmingly be more happy than unhappy with your partner.Okay, Amanda, if somebody were looking to find you online, where would they find you?Well, you can find me She Wolf of Wall Street.That's Wolf with an E.com, which is my website or across any of the social media platforms,She Wolf of Wall Street.All right.That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast.Big thanks to Amanda for joining me today in the co-host seat.
45:19She is Amanda Wolf, the She Wolf.of Wall Street. I am Mindy Jensen saying time to sail, Orca Whale. If you enjoyed today's episode,please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content,feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash Bigger Pockets Money. Bigger Pockets Money was createdby Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kaelin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media,copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this showpossible.