BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 474: Mindy and Scott's Favorite Sleepaway Camp for FIRE Chasers

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Deep in the forest, a secret financial independence summer camp is being held. Multiple times a year, all across the country, millionaires, financial freedom achievers, and those still on or just starting their FIRE journey meet up for a weekend like no other. Those who have achieved FIRE in their 30s, 40s, and 50s give advice, tips, and tactics to those who want to leave their jobs behind and see what a life of financial freedom feels like. It’s such a can’t-miss event that Mindy and Scott are regulars there too! Of course, we’re talking about CampFI, where you can roast marshmallows, talk about Roths, scheme with other investors on the best way to make millions, or simply meet the financial independence heroes you’ve only seen online. Throughout the year, these camps are held in every corner of the country, and today, you’ll get to hear exactly what happens around the campFIre. For that, we brought on CampFI founder Stephen Baughier to tell us more about this exclusive financial independence experience and his own journey to FI. After a tough wake-up call in his mid-30s, Stephen made it his goal to reach financial freedom, but not on the fast-paced schedule most FIRE chasers think of. Hear how Stephen was able to downsize his life, cut his spending, and have ultimate time freedom without having to work his tail off! In This Episode We Cover The one thing that made Stephen reevaluate his financial decisions in life Downsizing, cutting spending, and how to reach financial freedom faster Advice from millionaires and those who’ve already achieved FIRE CampFI costs, activities, events, and why you MUST attend  Why you can (and SHOULD) slow down your path to FIRE  Scott’s accidental run-in with a fireside cult-like chanting circle And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group Network with Other Investors on The Path to FIRE Through the BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Mindy on BiggerPockets Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Money Moment Past Episodes Mentioned in Today’s Show: Doug Nordman Mr. Money Mustache CampFI Website Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-474   Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email us: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, my dear listeners, where we interview my friend Stephen Boyer and talk about Camp Fi and steps for anyone to start their financial journey. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me, as always, is my could be Fi but Loves the Grind, co-host Scott Trench. Thanks, Mindy. Great to be here with my Loves the Camp Fire in a literal and metaphorical sense. co-host Mindy Jensen.

I do. Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe that financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you are starting. That's right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big-time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business, or just get a chance to connect in person with other like-minded, folks pursuing financial independence or who might already be there, we'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams. Scott, instead of a money moment today, I am going to tell our listeners about a super cool

event that Bigger Pockets is doing. It's called the Virtual Summit. You can join Dave Meyer and other real estate experts in a brand new virtual summit from December 11th through the 14th, 2023 and get prepared to be successful in 2024. This four-day summit is exclusive for our pro members with some access for our free members. Visit biggerpockets.com slash virtual summit to get all the details on how to access this exclusive event and register to get ready for next year. So we're about to talk with Stephen Boyer from Camp Phi. Mindy and I have both attended the events in the past. And we kind of gush about how much we appreciated Camp Fi. And we just wanted to make sure that ahead of that, you guys knew this is not an endorsement, a paid endorsement for Camp Fi. It's just a genuine,

we like the event. We've been in the past. We've made some friends there and had a great time. And this is our experience. I hope you enjoy the show and, you know, consider attending a local meetup or Camp Fi or some sort of event as part of your journey to financial independence, because you're going to get really great connections, valuable advice, and realize you're not alone on this journey here. There's a lot of other people who are pursuing it and many people who have arrived and love to connect. So without further ado, let's bring in Stephen. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little

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I am so excited to talk to you today. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Stephen, people know you from Camp Five, but you actually also have a really super interesting money story. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey with money? Yeah. So back in my early 20s, I would read all the Susie Ormond books, the Rick Edelman, the Rich Dad, Poor Dad, those types of books. And so I was always interested in personal finance, actually following through with the

with the necessary actions, you know, is another story. But so I was always like intellectually, like interested in the topic. And then as years passed by, you know, I did the typical thing where, you know, got the bigger house and some credit card dead and, you know, dug myself into a little bit of a hole. And, you know, got in my mid-30s. And I wasn't like terrible shape, but I wasn't, you know, I was to the point where I would look back and think, why am I not further along financially?

And so soon after that, however, I don't even know how it came across my phone or my computer screen. I came across the early retirement extreme, you know, Jacob Lund Fisker, the Mr. Money Mustache blog, and sort of kind of got sucked into that. that rabbit hole, I guess, go down the rabbit hole and then one thing after another. And so after a while, I got to where I was surrounding myself was just some really cool people. And then that really just is probably the single most thing that made me start following through and making good decisions or better decisions and start making progress financially.

So you said something very interesting. You said, I read all of this, but doing the way. work is a different story. And then you get down the road a little bit and you're like, well, why am I not further along financially because you didn't do the work? And I'm not like yelling at you. I know Stephen and I are friends outside of this show. So I know him and I'm not yet. He knows I'm not yelling at him. But like that's why you weren't further along financially because just because you know what you're supposed to be doing doesn't mean it's magically going to happen. You have to do the work. So, Stephen, when did you start doing the work?

Well, I think probably in my early 30s, I remember making a comment to my then-wife. I was like, you know, we're both accountants. We have accounting backgrounds. It's like, why don't we or why are we not making like personal financial statements? Like we do bookkeeping for businesses, you know, we do the profit loss statement, the balance sheet and all that stuff, monthly, quarterly, annually, whatever, to prepare tax returns with things with. But we don't do that for our personal finances.

So I remember making a comment then. I was like, you know, we really should be doing this. And that could even be a good service for other people, you know, down the line. Because it seems very useful, but I don't see anybody doing that. Unless, you know, like say we have a client that wants to get a loan from a bank and then they come in and say, let's prepare this balance sheet and, you know, for loan purposes. Other than that, it's not just a regular sort of personal financial maintenance task. it's done. So even then, I mean, it's probably 10 years, seven, 10 years after that that I actually

started doing it. So, I mean, again, you know things that you could be doing, but you don't. So, you know, it really was, and not to get like too personal or whatever, but, you know, I was going, I went through a divorce about 10 years ago. And at that point, it was a very, I don't know, it was obviously as a turning point, like a pivotal point, you know, in life as it is with anybody going through something like that. But it made me reevaluate a lot of things. And so instead of making decisions like on a compromise or, you know, I could finally just make decisions based solely on what I thought was best for me and my kids. And so to me, that was really, really sort of it. I made good money. I was a project controller for a defense contractor here in Georgia. And so the income

wasn't an issue, but as soon as I started reading those blogs and listening to podcasts, and I was also looking at that point in my life of how I can shape not just my finances, but just my life, period. Like, what kind of house am I going to move into? What sort of things am I going to spend my money on from here on out? Am I going to start saving a higher percentage? Those types of things. So as soon as it became clear that whatever my life looked like in five years was all because it's going to be because, oh, just me. It's not going to be because I have somebody to blame anything on or someone to pull me along forward, you know, with them. It's going to be all on my shoulders as soon as I had that accountability. And I, you know,

I was just faced with that. There was an exciting moment. I mean, a scary moment. Sure, but exciting to know that whatever, again, whatever your life is going to look like five years, 10 years from now, it's all because of the decisions that I'm making now. Steven, could you give us an overview of kind of the key points along your financial journey following this divorce and what you've been able to achieve over the last 10 years? With some of the changes that I'd made, I was able to start accumulating a decent amount in retirement accounts. And I got to a point in mid-2016 where I decided I was going to take a break from full-time

work. So it was June 2016. I turned in my security badge at work and I was like, okay, well, I had this time freed up. My plan at the time was I had a friend who's a CPA who has a firm here and I was just going to work tax season. And then if I didn't make enough to cover all my annual expenses during tax season, I would just dip into my savings. And then as long as I didn't go negative by the time my kids were 18 and I was happy. And if I was at zero by the time they were 18, I was just going to, you know, call somebody up and say, can I sleep on your couch and go get a good job and save all the money up again.

And I was really, that was like my plan. I was good with that. But I didn't know things like Camp 5 were going to come along. And like passion projects, we're going to turn into income, you know, producing endeavors. So I have not been working down. down to zero, thankfully. I'm still able to spend as much time with my kids as they'll let me. And I, you know, I've been able to save, save more into my retirement over the last, you know, six or seven years.

So, so it's nice. Awesome. Let's talk about your, you're, this awesome role that you've kind of carved out for yourself and built over time in the, the FI community. You know, you've, can you tell us about what you do, one of your, your passion projects here, what it is? how you started it and how you can get involved? I am the founder of Camp Phi, and we've been doing that since 2017. And so basically, that's a weekend long personal finance retreat for people on their financial independence journey just to kind of hang out. It's a community builder primarily, and every now and then we learn something new about

money. We might talk about money a little bit. And it's just a good time. It's a good community builder. And the reason that I did that is because I experienced a similar event called Camp Mustache. It was in 2016 and Seattle, Washington. And to me, at that place in my life and just tapping into this community, which I felt like I was all alone until I went to one of these things. And I was like, oh, there's other people who have similar values and think similarly.

And this is great. And it just put a lot of wind of myself and made me feel super optimistic about all the things that I ever wanted to do. Like, you know, I think I'm a dreamer. And so there's a lot of, a lot of dreams that kind of get put on the back burner. And for whatever reason, just that weekend was magical to me. And it just felt like it opened up the world. So it's like, I really think that this experience should be available for other people. I spoke with the three original organizers of the camp mustache up there, asked them,

can I bring a camp mustache down to the southeast? I'm from Georgia. And like selfishly, I was like, maybe I can find other people around me in the southeast that are like-minded and I can connect with them in real life. And they were absolutely supportive of it. We did it. It was a hit. And then I wanted to, I was like, you know, we have a camp mustache up.

the northwest. We have one in the southeast. Why don't we just start putting camp mustaches everywhere? And so Emma, who was one of the original organizers, she went back to the other two, and they discussed it. And understandably, they just didn't want to take that on. And so I changed the name to Camp Phi and just sort of ran with it. And so we've opened up camps all over the country. Yeah, could you, could you describe one of these kind of early camps and the, the, what, what it was like, how many people showed up, you know, where it was, speakers, all that kind of stuff to get a feel for, you know, because these, these were awesome events. I remember I've, I've been to a couple of them, like you said. Yeah, so the, I was just talk about the first one. It was a, at that time, it was called Camp Mustar Southeast. And it was just outside of Gainesville, Florida, where we still have the camp fies down there now. So the first half of the day, we have speakers is sort of semi-formal. And then the second half of the day, it's super late. And it's super late. laid back, chill, we do recreational things. This particular one we did, that we had canoes, kayaks, archery,

some team building courses in the woods. And so really how that shaped up was I wasn't, you know, like I said earlier, I often accounted by background. I'm not an event planner. I sort of created the event that I would want to attend. I didn't know how it was going to go, if it was going to be my first day, my last event ever. It was just like different topics.

We had J.D. Roth come down. Pete, Mr. Money Mustanish came down. There was a few other speakers came down, and it was just a really cool thing. We had 38 people show up at that one. And yeah, it was good. I was so nervous the whole time. I was like, I don't know if people are enjoying themselves. I don't know at all.

And then, like, Saturday I walked by the open door of the cafeteria, and I just heard, like, everybody talking, like a rumble of everybody talking. And I was like, and then I just let like this deep. deep sigh of relief. I was like, okay, this is going to be an okay weekend. Again, no experience. It's just kind of, I was just kind of going by my gut and it worked out. Okay, Stephen, I love you. But this is the worst advertisement for Camp Fi ever. It is not just an okay weekend. Camp Fi is like my most favorite event. And I would go to every single one all year long if I didn't have this job. It is so much fun. You say it's a weekend, and that sounds like it's two days.

It is Friday night, all day, Saturday, all day, Sunday, breakfast on Monday. And when Monday comes around, you're like, I really don't want to leave. First of all, the food is great. And all these people are great. And there's so many people that you're connecting with from all around the country or, like, kind of all around wherever you are. I fly to Florida to do it. And I live in Colorado.

I also go to the one in Colorado. I have so much fun at these events because I meet. So many people from all walks of life who have questions, who have something to teach me, who have an interesting story. I love talking. So it's fun for me just to talk all the time. And I have such a great time when I'm there watching people. I especially love catching up with people that I've seen before.

But I love new attendees because they come and they're a little nervous. They're like, oh, what's this going to be about? And then they start talking. They're like, there are other people just like me. And that's like, there comes a point just like your Saturday when you walk past the cafeteria and you're like, oh, it's going to be an okay weekend. It's not an okay weekend. It's an awesome weekend.

Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going. and more importantly, where your taxed refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch.

Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves the needle.

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Is this only for, you know, financial podcasters or people who are already financially independent? Anybody who's interested in financial independence, whether you are new to it, you're in hundreds of thousands of debt, or if you're already financially independent, and you're just looking for some people to hang out with and share your knowledge. Like anybody on the financial independence journey, no matter where you are is welcome. Awesome. And that's what I really enjoyed about some of these is meeting folks that were just getting started and meeting. you know, folks with millions of dollars in net worth who are doctors going through the very real pain of like, well, I struggled to become financially independent. Now do I actually, like, give up my identity as a doctor. Those are really cool, real problems that people have across that entire spectrum that is really fun there. Where are they located? Well, we have them

located all over the country. We have, I named the campfires after regions. So we have Campi Southeast is in Florida. We do two of those a year. We have Campi Mid-Atlantic, which is in Virginia. We have Campi Rocky Mountain, which is in Colorado Springs. We do two of those every year in the summer. We have Campi Midwest, which is in Minnesota. We have Campi, Texas, which is in Texas. And we have Campi Southwest, which is in Julian, California, which is kind of in the mountains about an hour northeast of San Diego.

So we have six locations and a total of eight camps throughout the year. What is the price point to attend one of these camps? as low as I can possibly make it. I do want to keep it as affordable as possible so that people who can get the most value out of it can still afford it. Most of the tickets are between $4 and $500, and that includes lodging for the whole weekend, includes all the meals. You can put your wallet up for the whole weekend, you know, everything else that talks, the recreational activities. all those, everything comes with your, your one ticket. And what should campers expect?

I think campers can expect to be pleasantly surprised at the, the sincerity and the authenticity to the people they meet there. To me, that was my biggest thing. The first time I experienced something like this, and that's what I continuously, I hear, I'm sorry, and that is what I consistently hear over and over again is just how nice everyone is and how generous they are with their knowledge. And so you can expect to come away, hopefully with two or three, at least two or three really good friends and people that you can call on and maybe even accountability partners on your

financial journey. Well, Stephen, speaking of journeys, you mentioned that you aren't FI yet, but you're well on your way. How has creating Camp Fi and bringing people together helped you on your personal journey? I think it gives me a purpose. So my personal journey, you know, I feel it's very fulfilling. I feel like I have a purpose that's meaningful. That's like part of my identity. And I think that I'm improving the world in some kind of way. As far as my financial journey, you know, it's like I said earlier, I'm able to still invest towards retirement. All the lifestyle choices that I made post-divorce decreased my cost of living to the point where

I don't really have to make a lot of money to pay my bills, which is great. So I don't have a pressure to just maximize profits at every turn. So I can, you know, doing this and some other passion projects, it provides enough income to pay my bills, save a little bit. I'm not on a super speedy track to accumulate millions and, you know, two years or anything like that. So I'm not in a hurry to get to financial independence or to reach my thigh number. But I'm on my way. There's progress every year. And that's not really my priority anyway at the time. Like I said earlier, my priority is to maximize time with the kids, be able to maintain like a peaceful household, keep myself in a mindset where I can be the best dad and calm as I can possibly be.

And so as long as I'm doing those things and I'm not going backwards financially, I'm good. But thankfully, I've been able to go forwards a little bit financially. Awesome. So, you know, from a financial standpoint, you know, I look, the goal of maximizing time with your children is abundantly clear from that. But what is the why to continue accumulating wealth? Like, what is the end goal for the time that you do devote to building your financial position? My end goal is I don't know what I want to do whenever my kids are grown. So am I going to want to keep working?

I currently work as independent contractors and accountant at a CPA firm here in town. Am I going to want to keep doing that once my kids are grown and maybe they're off to college or doing whatever they're doing? Who knows what they're going to do? I might not have roots here. in Georgia anymore or in this particular area. I might want to do some travel. I might want to pursue other things. And to me, the reason why I continue to save towards retirement is to have that flexibility of hopefully I could be close to financial independence or I have enough built up to where

I won't be limited to doing some of those things that I want to do whenever being a full-time dad is really no longer the thing that I'm doing. So I have three years out from that. My son is a senior, so we're doing the whole college application thing now, which is fun times. And my daughter's freshman, so we have three and a half more years or so until she's off to college. So to me, that's what I'm looking at. It's, you know, hopefully I'll get to a certain point, maybe not completely financially independent, but pretty close after she graduates. And then we'll see. It's just really to give me options. I don't know specifically what those will be or what I will choose, but I just want to have the option. You've heard a lot of money stories. You've heard a lot of presentations.

From everything that you've heard, from everything that you've learned, from your own personal experience, how aggressive do you recommend a person get to FI after finding or figuring out what their living expenses are and determining their FI number? Whatever's comfortable for them. And I know that's kind of like a cop-out answer. It is. But, you know, there are things more important than money, right? We all can agree there are things more important than money.

So as long as you know what your values are, what your priorities are, if you're meeting those, then then save everything else. You know, that's probably what I would say is like, as long as you're, you're living consistent with your values, then just save everything else. And whenever you get there, you get there. How about this? What are some consistent themes that you see, like values that seem to be shared among the people who attend these camps that you think are consistent, probably by and large among people who actually achieve financial independence.

I think the main quality I see most consistently is just intentionality. You know, they want to be efficient with the decisions they're making. With, you know, they people put a lot of work into making money. You know, they value their own time. They don't want to put all the work into making money just to waste it on things they don't care about. So they're very intentional. So to me, that's the one thing. And that goes back to what I was just saying earlier.

It's like as long as your values are being reflected in the life that you're living and you're able to live consistently with that, then you can just save the rest. But really, it's just intentional, people being intentional with almost all their decisions, whether it's money, whether it's how they spend their time, whether it's hobbies. I mean, it's probably to limit regrets later too. You know, like they just want to know that whenever their time comes, whenever their tickets punched, that they lived a good life, that they're proud to have lived. I think that's really important. So I see people who shall remain nameless who kind of just let life drag them by.

Oh, I guess I'll do this. I guess I'll do that. They don't have any thought behind it. They're not doing anything because they want to. They're doing it because everybody else is doing it or they're doing it because, you know, it was there. and having the intentionality, I am going to do this. I am going to make this decision, hopefully with some thought behind it, and see what happens. Or I'm going to, you know, I could have spent every dime that I ever made, but instead I decided

to put some of it into the stock market. And look, it grew. Oh, I want to do that again. So I'm going to now, now that I've seen the success, I'm going to do it again. I've made this intentional decision to continue saving towards my future. And now, you know, I am struck with a different problem of I have to make intentional decisions to not be so tight-fisted. Maybe you heard.

And that's something that I'm working on right now, too. But doing something on purpose is a calm approach to life as opposed to like frantically trying to keep up or frantically trying to figure out what it is you're doing. So I love that idea of just being intentional about what you're doing. Try it. Just because you're intentional about going down this path doesn't mean that you have to continue going down that path forever. You try it because you've done some research, you've done some thought, you've given it some thought, and you're trying something out. And then if it doesn't work, then you pivot and you do something else. Stephen, do you have any other tips to make the FI journey

more successful and enjoyable. I think one of the things that I found to be much more enjoyable and probably has contributed to me continuing to make progress is just being connected with people who sort of know what I'm, know about the fight journey, know about the end goal financial wise, whether it's, you know, forums on blogs or if you're, you know, going to the bigger pockets forums or comments in the YouTube section or whatever, work on surrounding yourself with like-minded people and with people who know more than you, like who are smarter than you. There's a reason I haven't spoken at any of my camps.

So, the 42 that I've done, Scott Mindy has spoken at more camps than I have. I've never been a speaker at a camp because I like hearing from all the people that are way smarter than me. and I don't want to waste people's time, but it's really cool, like selfishly just being surrounded by people who know so much about so much. Steve, we're getting close to wrapping up here, but I'd love to ask you as a final question,

where can people find out more about you and where can people find Camp Fi? Yeah, just to go to the Can'tFi website, you can see the, I try to keep the schedule as updated as possible. Right now we have all of next year's events at the website. It's campfye.org, C-A-M-P-F-I for Financial Independence.org or G.org. And, I mean, if you want to email me, you can email me at campfai.org at gmail.com. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Stephen, for coming on. Thanks for putting together such a great program. I know it's, I haven't been in a couple years,

but it's had a big impact on my life, met a lot of friends, met a lot of folks that I had only ever connected with digitally before. Thank you, Stephen. This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate your time. I appreciate all that you've done for the community, the financial independence community, because your campfis are changing lives. So thank you so much. And we will talk to you soon. Thank you all for having me. Had a great time. All right, Scott, that was Stephen. That was so much fun. I love talking to Stephen. I love camp. I don't know if you could tell Scott, but I really like camp fi. I love connecting with other people on their journey to financial independence. I love talking to them about where they're at, what hurdles they're facing.

I just, I really love this stuff. Yeah, me too. Mindy, let's do a quick, you know, favorite memory from a campfire. Ooh, okay, my favorite memory was a couple of years ago, Dan Sheeks was giving his presentation that we actually turned into a podcast episode for this show. He was talking about how you teach your children. about money, your older teens about money before they go away to college by actually giving them all the money that they're going to need for their life and forcing them to figure out how to budget.

So if they're going to spend, you know, $700 in a month, you give them $700 at the beginning of the month. And then they're responsible for clothes and shoes and their phone bill and perhaps paying you rent and they buy their own shampoo and they buy all of the. these things. And if you're going on a vacation, they have to budget that into, you know, use that money that they've got to help budget for the vacation going forward. And it's a really great way to teach them how to walk a tightrope with a safety net underneath. That was my absolute favorite moment at Camp Five. How about you? I'll see. My favorite moment, I would say, like, besides the

million conversations, one that just sticks out. out to me is I had a conversation probably like from 12 a.m. to 2 a.m. with Doug Nordman. Doug Nordman is a military, author of the military guide to financial independence and retirement. He's been on the podcast and in previous shows. But I am a big sucker for all things naval. And, you know, we just basically talked about Admiral Rookover and the submarine nuclear navy for two hours. And I just had a great time doing that. It's just those kinds of connections. in addition to the great discussions about, you know, finance, of course, that are always happening. Scott, what is the best advice that you have heard at Camp Fi?

Best advice. Well, I think that the thing that I picked up is that was really important that sticks with me is a lot of conversations or a good chunk of them had to do with folks that were already FI but couldn't quit their jobs. And for whatever reason, like couldn't. There was a financial. component to it. There's an identity component to it. There's a what am I going to do component to it. And I think that the actual transition from having hit your number to then actually becoming FI is really a challenge that we've explored a little bit on Bigger Pockets money, but as a real step in the journey that

I think that that has always stuck with me out of numerous conversations for various reasons. Folks really struggle with that. And that's a opportunity to really to really help folks. And these types of events can be powerful motivators or ways to kind of get through that. On that same vein, Scott, Joel from FI.180 said, what's the worst that could happen if I quit my job? I'll just go back and get another job. So my worst case scenario is everybody else's everyday life. That's not a bad way to frame quitting your job in early retirement. All right, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying, adios little ghost.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com Bigger Pockets Money. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kaelin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.