BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 500: FIRE Advice from Codie Sanchez, Ramit Sethi, Money with Katie, and More!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the 500th episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen. And joining me today as my co-host is Kaylin Bennett, our senior producer. And she has helped make many of the past 500 episodes happen. Hi, Mindy. It's so good to see you and be back on the show. This may be a little, you know, behind the scenes scoop here. But I haven't been working day to day on money lately.

Starting point is 00:00:25 I got moved over to the real estate show. So I've missed you and it's good to see you. I've missed you too. I'm so happy you're joining me today on this really giant episode. I could not imagine 500 episodes when Scott and I started this show way back in January of 2018. Yeah, that's a feat in and of itself. And the fact that all of you listeners have stuck around and have loved this show for 500 episodes, we keep making it for you. And so thank you for all your comments and interactions with the show. I mean, we're here to do it for you. So, so thank you. Thank you. 500 down, 500,000 more to go. Absolutely. We'll take your ideas for future topics, everyone.

Starting point is 00:01:11 Well, Mindy and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story 500 times and over because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you are starting. And in, celebration of 500 episodes of Bigger Pockets Money, today's episode will be a look back at some of our favorite, most popular, and most value-packed moments on this podcast. Mindy and I are here to give the inside scoop on some of our very favorite episodes that we've had over 500. So today we're going to be talking through some of the episodes that covered financial awakenings, worry-free numbers, boring businesses, and something called luxurious frugality.

Starting point is 00:01:56 Mindy and I are going to get into some of the behind-the-scenes stuff of these episodes, why we love them when we made them, and also what we think about them now and why it's important to you today. Whether you are an avid listener and have listened to every episode that we have made, and thank you so very much, or you're just discovering our show now. You can always benefit from listening to these episodes, two, three, four, a thousand times because sometimes things only click when you've heard them. over and over again. So we hope these clips unlock something for you today. All right, Mindy, well, the first show that we have lined up is actually one of my very favorite shows that I worked on as a producer. It's episode 341 and this episode featured Katie Gaddy Tasson of the podcast, Money with Katie. This episode was titled Money with Katie's Middle Class wealth trap to avoid. Let's go ahead and play that clip for our audience. I became far more critical of my own

Starting point is 00:02:56 unquestioning of just the way things are, like the fact that almost every day my coworkers would go out to lunch. And I'd be like, sure, I'll join you. Because you just, you don't think about it unless someone points at that and says, that's actually not very, like, that's probably not what you should be doing. Like, you know, you're going out and spending $15 or $20 a day on lunch and then maybe going home and picking up food on the way home. Like those little choices that I never really thought much of before are just kind of considered normal because it's what was modeled to me as normal. that's what I started to question. Same with, I would say, some of the more traditional quote-unquote like beauty or like feminine expenses of like always having to have your hair done and your nails done and to have trendy clothes and nice things and things like that, again, that I hadn't really questioned. I just thought, yeah, I mean, you have to get your highlights and your gel manicures and you have to have, you know, nice makeup on your face every day. Those are also things. things that I kind of started to look at through a different lens and say, well, actually,

Starting point is 00:04:00 how much am I spending on these things? You know, what percentage? And it turned out, it was like 10% of my take home pay was going toward what I now call the hot girl expenses. And sure, now that I'm earning more, I've introduced some of them again. I, you know, get my hair done again. But at the time, it was kind of like, oh my God, that is kind of inexcusable that I would spend 10% of my take home pay just on the way that I look. But unless someone really shines a flashlight on it for you and kind of points out, this is the trajectory that you're putting yourself on with these choices. It's very hard to notice or question those things on your own. I want to put some framing around this clip for our audience here. So Katie was talking about this

Starting point is 00:04:43 in the context of having what she's called a financial awakening, which I love. We all heard the term like spiritual awakening a lot. But I think a financial awakening can be just as important. And basically she was living this life of what she thought was normal. And I guess like I felt, and I think to a lot of Americans, it is normal. I think I felt very seen with Katie where, you know, your friends are doing all these things. Like, there's a lot of phomo culture. Like, you have to go out. You have to look good. You have to get your nails done. You have to do all these things. Like, and a lot of her disposable income was going to that. And, you know, something that we didn't clip out in this episode that she said was, you know, spending a dollar now, like, what's it ever

Starting point is 00:05:25 if I spent it now or in five years. And that's overlooking a lot of the beautiful things like investing in compound interest and what that dollar does over time. We're not really answering a lot of the change that, you know, putting your dollar somewhere else can do for you. Right. And what she, what I love about this particular clip so much is, you know, these things she says, you don't think about it. You don't think about it. When you are surrounded by people who are going out to lunch every day, you don't think about the cost of going out to lunch every day. You just join them. She said, you don't think about it.

Starting point is 00:06:04 Those little choices are considered normal because it was modeled to me as normal. When you don't question what's going on and so many people don't question what's going on. And then all of a sudden, the question pops up and you look around and you think to yourself, it doesn't have to be this way. And I remember having the exact same conversation with my husband when we discovered the Mr. Money Mustache blog. Oh, my goodness, you don't have to work until you're age 65. Before we read that on his website, we just assumed we would work until we're age 65. So having these little things modeled to you that are different is one of the reasons why we have this podcast in the first place. Your life can be very very.

Starting point is 00:06:49 different with very small tweaks. And I've had my own like aha moments like that on the podcast. So like a lot of my financial awakening this year and Midi, I remember when I called and told you about this is like, I sold my car. To a lot of people that's like, okay, Kalin, why would you sell your car? You need that to get around. But, you know, I looked at my life. My partner and I both work from home. We really only need one driver. We go most places together. Like why do we have two car loans? And I could make money on it. And then I, something I do love is I love vintage cars. So I bought some really dope 1994 GeoTracker, Chevroleteo Tracker. If you guys don't know this car, just like trust me, look it up. It's teal. It's gorgeous. It's a convertible. It's dope A.F. But, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:35 I looked at my life and that was going to be a lot more fun and fulfilling and I could pay cash for it than having some car payment for a car that sits in the driveway. But, you know, it's these conversation of the show about looking at that horizon, I don't have to have a nice daily driver because all of my friends do, you know, I can drive some dope little zippy car around town during the summer. Exactly. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the

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Starting point is 00:10:43 when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money. The next episode I want to talk about we're going all the way back to episode 10 that released on March 5th of 2018. And on this episode, we talked with Liz Frugal Woods about how she lives a frugally luxurious life. Gameifying your frugal habits can have. help make a fun challenge to you when you are trying to remove things from your life or reduce costs when you are first on the five path, first determining how you're going to reduce your expenses.

Starting point is 00:11:21 And she has a fantastic bit of advice about how she was able to do this. Our approach is all about luxurious frugality. And I know people say luxurious frugality lady, you are crazy. But listen, I really, I really believe in this because I don't think that frugality is sustainable or enjoyable or even makes any sense if you just don't spend any money. Sure, you could spend pennies and you could eat beans out of a can and you could live in a tent. These are all things that you could do. We did not do any of those things.

Starting point is 00:11:54 We really continued living at what I would consider to be a very high level of luxury, convenience, but we stopped spending on all the things that did not bring us deep and lasting fulfillment. And so we cut out a lot of things that were just ultimately unnecessary. And then the other piece is that we found frugal substitutions for things that we love to do. So a great example are yoga classes. I love going to yoga. In the city, I was going to yoga three nights a week for like $20 a class. I mean, just thousands of dollars every month.

Starting point is 00:12:29 And what I realized is that I could volunteer at the front desk of the yoga studio, check people in, mop the studio afterwards, take out the trash, and get free classes. And so that was a very small expenditure of time for me. It was about 30 minutes in order to get free classes. And a trade-off like that where then you're then saving many thousands of dollars a year is fantastic. And the other piece of that is that I made a bunch of friends. I was part of the community of the yoga studio. I loved working at the front desk. It was a lot of fun for me in addition to being this financially fantastic idea. So I really encourage people to isolate the variables of what makes them the happiest. And if it's yoga class or it's CrossFit, whatever it is, there is a frugal

Starting point is 00:13:14 analog for that. There is something that you can do in order to reduce the cost of that. We also love to drink seltzer, which is sparkling water. This is the most ridiculous example. No, no, this is my favorite example. I mean, when she says that they drink a lot of seltzer, I don't think that you really understand. I think that's all she drinks is seltzer. She keeps herself very hydrated with herself. It's just water. It's just sparkling water.

Starting point is 00:13:44 I don't put any sugar in it, I swear. No, but you can't just like go and blow bubbles in there. You have to do it with a machine. You do. You need the intervention of a machine. So this is an example where, you know, someone who is going to extreme frugality would say, oh, well, obviously you're going to give up the seltzer and just drink tap water because that's free. No, we did not give up the seltzer. My husband, who is very handy.

Starting point is 00:14:08 And we detail this process on our blog. So if anybody wants to do this, you really can follow the steps. It's actually quite straightforward. We hacked our SOTistry machine to hook up to a 20-pound canister of CO2. And so this now costs us, you know, pennies. And I do the cost breakdown on Frugal Woods, and you can read through that. But the key with the SOTStre machine, Where you're spending the money is on the inserts, you know, the CO2 inserts that you have to swap out. And we were spending, I think it was maybe $40 a month on those. We now spend, I think it's $60 per year on this CO2 tank. And I have to tell you the evolution of the seltzer because originally, let me tell you,

Starting point is 00:14:52 we were buying two-liter bottles at the grocery store, all right? So that's the most expensive way to get bubbly water to your home. It's also very heavy when you don't have a car and you're walking back from the grocery store. So my devotion to this stuff is very profound. So then from there, we bought a soda stream. That is less expensive. And then from there, we hacked it to use this CO2 tank, but it gets better. We originally bought the CO2 tank from a beer home brew shop because it's the same CO2.

Starting point is 00:15:22 I looked at the CO2 tank and it had a sticker of a welding supply company on the side. And it was like, this home brew shop is getting it from the welding supply and then marking it way up at the hipster home brew shop. So I called the welding supply. Sure enough, it's half off at welding supply. So we now, it's the same thing. They were just like hipsterizing it, like putting a bow on it, you know, at the home brew shop. So there's always a cheaper option.

Starting point is 00:15:50 And, you know, what kind of underlies this story is how much fun it is to make these discoveries. This was truly enjoyable for my husband and I. I mean, I can't tell you how excited we were and then excited to share with other people. And so I think it's when you see it as an enjoyable aspect of life and you see it as a competition and you see it as really a way that you can innovate and be creative, it becomes a lot of fun. Because we live in the society of just use an app for anything that you need. And, you know, what I'm advocating is use your brain. Be creative.

Starting point is 00:16:24 Be innovative. find ways to get what you want without spending money. Mindy, I have to say, like, the amount you reference this episode to me personally, like, it's probably weekly. So I know that this is like in your top three favorite episodes ever on the show. Caitlin, this is one of my absolute favorite episodes. You're right. Because she tells her story so well.

Starting point is 00:16:47 And you can hear her excitement when she's talking about, I'm going to get rid of everything. And then you can hear a little bit of anguish, oh, I really didn't like this life that I was living now when I got rid of everything, but I knew I wanted to reduce my expenses. I knew that was going to be a key component to becoming financially independent. So I'm looking for ways to keep in the things that I like at a reduced cost. And I just love her ingenuity. I love the, she didn't take no for an answer. She figured it out. and it was so easy for her to do.

Starting point is 00:17:25 It's just such a shining example of what you can do when you put a little creativity at your problem and you think outside the box. I completely agree. And something that you and I talk not on the show about but offline about when I'm producing when I was producing the show was we like to say like you can have your coffee and drink it too. Like you can be on a budget but still live a happy, fulfilled life where like you can enjoy the things that you enjoy. I think that there's this really big misnomer in the FI community that

Starting point is 00:17:54 you have to give up everything to get to FI and then you can start living your life. And I personally have had a really hard time with, I guess, that story that I keep hearing. I see online or in the forums or on Reddit or whatever when we're researching shows. And I think that this episode really is an answer to that, which is you can be frugal but still live a luxurious happy life. And she does that with such ingenuity. And so, Mindy, I'm just wondering, like, How have you done that in your personal life? Like, how have you lived a luxurious life while getting to FI, but with just a little bit of creativity?

Starting point is 00:18:29 One of the things is I don't spend money on things that I don't truly value. So I really don't care about the clothes that I wear. I shop at a thrift store. I go to garage sales. And that, I'm fine with that. But I really want to feed my family good food. So I don't skimp at the grocery store. That doesn't mean that I don't use coupon.

Starting point is 00:18:50 That doesn't mean that I don't shop the sales. But I'm not willing to go down to the, another person in the FI community is Jacob Lund Fisker from early retirement Extreme. And Extreme is really the key word here. He lives on something like $7,000 a year or he did, you know, when he first started. But his $7,000 a year is extreme. He's living on beans and rice and eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And he is not living a life that I want to live.

Starting point is 00:19:20 live. So I don't live that life. And I think that while his choices are his choices, he makes a lot more money than $7,000 a year. He chooses to live on $7,000 a year. So that's the key here. People see that and think, oh, that's what I have to do. No, you can do whatever you want. And I love what Paula Pan says. You can afford anything. You can't afford everything. So figure out what you want to keep in your life. I love that. And something like a light bulb moment for me while producing this show, I don't even remember who said it. But a budget isn't a limitation. It's what I can spend things on. It's not what I can't spend things on. It's what I can. And I think that if you can't afford, like Liz was talking about this episode, like, or you don't want to afford, you know, buying bubbly

Starting point is 00:20:14 water in the can if you, you know, drink it by the gallon like she does. Or like paying for a really expensive yoga membership, you can find creative ways to make that stuff happen. I've done that in my own life. I realized that the monthly membership to the yoga studio I love wasn't worth it, but I could buy class packages and it would be cheaper and I go what I want to go. And it checked the box and I'm saving $70 a month. So I think that like if you're just willing to do some research, you're willing to be a little bit creative, you can fit everything you like in your life in your budget. Like I love going out to eat. I love going to a bar. I love going to a bar. Like I work from home. Girl needs to get out. You know, I can't look at these four walls all the time. But I learned, I literally went on a map, but I mapped out the best happy hours in my area and things for my partner and I to go to. And we go out. We spend like 40 bucks between the two of us, you know, once or twice a week. That's not going to break the bank. We're having a great day night. We're enjoying our time. We're meeting new people. And it's scratching that it's that we want. Like we value going out. So you have to do.

Starting point is 00:21:20 it smartly. Exactly. Exactly. Figure out what you want to keep in your life and what you want to get rid of. Now, one thing that we didn't share on Liz's recap episode or recap clip is that she actually removed a large amount of things from her life and only added back in a few things, meaning she still was saving a lot of money. She just was able to add back in the things she wanted and continue to save money on those as well. All right, Mindy. I don't know how you follow Liz Frugelwood, but we do have a maverick of a show to follow up with that. And that is Cody Sanchez talking about boring businesses. This was episode 416. So let's go ahead and play that clip. You just said, don't buy a job by a business. And I think that's fabulous advice.

Starting point is 00:22:08 I can hear a lot of people, oh, man, I bought this business because I listened to Cody. And then it's, it's all I do is work at this job. How do you differentiate what's going to be a job and what's going to be a business before you actually own it and now have to work three, two jobs full time to try and make your investment not crash? Well, a lot of this comes down to, so there's 10 steps to buying a business. Let's answer it this way. There's 10 steps to buy to business. First step to buying a business is understanding that the opportunity is out there and that it's possible to do with not a lot of cash if you want to, and that that business could potentially replace your 9 to 5 totally doable. Second is deal clarity, which means, hey, I know exactly what type of business would be good for me.

Starting point is 00:22:55 I have asked myself, we have 25 questions, we ask you, but I've asked myself these 25 questions. Third is origination. How do I find a business? Where are they located? Fourth is due diligence. This would be this section. So how do I know if this is a good business that really does what it says it does, where the owner actually only works 20 hours a week and it makes this much amount of money that they say it does so I know

Starting point is 00:23:19 what I'm getting myself into. Fourth is negotiating. How do I negotiate well with the seller in order to get what I want? Six, is selling you. So how do I convince the seller that I am the person to take over their little baby that they've built their whole lives, or that they spent their whole lives building? Seven is going to be financing. So how do I get the money to actually do this deal? Eight is closing. So how do I take this, how do I take this business with my attorney and my accountant and actually close the deal overall? Nine is the first 90 days and the 10 is growth. Okay. So for those of you not on YouTube right now that are just listening to this podcast, I just like have to point out that Mindy is wearing the exact same shirt in this recording in the Cody Sanchez recording. I thought it looked familiar.

Starting point is 00:24:12 Yeah. I love it. It's a good shirt. She looks. that's amazing in it. So I do want to like give a producers note on why I loved this episode and why I picked this episode. So something that we do at Bigger Paw is we talk a lot about creating wealth and creating financial freedom through real estate. And I think there's a lot of different ways to become financially abundant to reach Phi. And I love in this episode that we highlighted a different way. And Cody does and has invested in real estate. But she really frames us through buying boring businesses and gives us a really strong framework of how to go about making that possible in your own life. Yeah, I love her 10 steps. That's super easy to understand. She's not

Starting point is 00:24:56 using huge jargon in here. One thing that I found really surprising through this episode is she said, boring businesses, buy a business with no moat. And what made me so surprised by this is because this is the exact opposite of Warren Buffett's mentality, buy businesses with big moats. And Warrens makes sense, but he's got billions and billions of dollars so he can buy the railroad company. I don't have Warren Buffett money. I can't afford to buy a railroad company all by myself. But Cody is introducing you to buying businesses that you can afford, businesses that are,

Starting point is 00:25:38 there's no moat around them. We're talking about the laundromat. There's lots of competition for a laundromat, but there's also lots of need for the laundromat, the electrician shop, the plumber, the liquor store. There's all sorts of these businesses all over every city in America. There's all sorts of these businesses for sale at all different price points. And she's giving you the framework for how to identify and evaluate the business and see if it's worth your time. and worth your investment. And it's, like you said, it's another way to reach financial independence. Absolutely. And I think something that always really stuck with me about this particular episode

Starting point is 00:26:20 was how earlier in the episode, Cody talks about buying businesses that align with her values and the current thing she's trying to create. So she owns part of her arm, she owns a media business. So she acquired a video production company, which could help her with the things that she's already working on. And I think that that's really important for our audience is to sit, evaluate your life, what businesses can you buy or opportunities can you create to leverage what you're already doing? The other thing that really stuck with me about this episode and why Cody is just a master at what she does is it's not always about the exact business she's buying, but about the operation she's bringing to better the business. And that becomes like the whole infrastructure

Starting point is 00:27:02 in and of itself of why she can go to scale with it. So I think for our real estate investors, for our business owners, for our folks interested in getting to FI, I think that this episode, to me, was always just a very good lesson in know your systems, know your wants, and know your value proposition of what you're trying to do on your journey. Absolutely. I really got a lot out of this episode. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your taxed refund can make the biggest impact.

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Starting point is 00:28:03 Monarch subscription with the code Pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in Edle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code Pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at monarch.com code Pockets.

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Starting point is 00:30:52 Project Hail Mary, only theaters March 20th. Next up is episode 243 for our listeners who keep track. This is the episode that features Ramit Sethi talking about couples finance, living a rich life together. We have a worry-free number. That's what I call it. And I encourage everybody to develop a worry-free number. It's called a worry-free number because below that number, you do not worry about it. I'm frankly sick of hearing about people who have $800,000 in the bank and they go to the grocery store and they agonize over whether to get pre-cut broccoli.

Starting point is 00:31:34 or not. It's a complete waste of time. It's a waste of limited cognitive resources. And it's playing small. I always say stop focusing on $3 questions. You should be asking $30,000 or in their case, $300,000 questions. So set a worry-free number. For a lot of people, you know, when we grow up, it's like, a pack of gum, whatever, pack a gum. It's a buck, buck 50, no big deal. No, no problem. Here's the problem. As you become more financially successful, you rarely adjust your worry-free So you have these people who have lots of money, a huge investment portfolio, and they're sitting there agonizing over $1.75. Stop it. You need to update your worry-free number. And so for people, you know, $5. Okay. When I was starting out in my early career, okay, five bucks, fine.

Starting point is 00:32:26 But at a certain point, your worry-free number might be 100. It might be 1,000. I know couples for whom it is 10,000. They don't even talk about anything below $10,000. Okay? Now, that's a multi-millionaire couple. But I interview a lot of those on my podcast as well. Multi-millionaires who, one of them, goes out to a restaurant and tells his wife, I really want the steak tonight.

Starting point is 00:32:52 But you know what? I'm going to get the chicken because it's $5 cheaper. I just think about that. Is that the kind of life that you're working for? You build your investment portfolio. You sit there. you run your Monte Carlo simulations and you're not even ordering the meat you want when you go out to eat? No. Okay, Mindy. So we didn't totally show this in the clip, but Rameet made you cry during

Starting point is 00:33:14 this episode if you watch all the way to the end. And I just like, I promise this is tangential for a reason, but I have to tell the audience a quick story. One of the first episodes I produced with you. It was like episode like two or three, we're doing this intro. And Mindy just starts, sobbing, like crying on this intro. And I, this is like, I've known Mindy for, like, quite some time at this point, but it was one of my first time was producing her. And I just, like, froze. I just, like, did not know, like, what to do. I think I, like, wrote in you in the chat. I was like, you good, Mama. Like, you grew up any way to do I need to stop. So I had seen this, this particular episode before I had produced you cry.

Starting point is 00:34:01 But this is an episode that very much shows like the softer side of Mindy and tearing up and Rameet calls her out in this episode after this clip. But it was just, yeah, this episode is one of my favorite episodes. It's an episode that I looked to when I started producing the show because it's such a powerhouse of an episode. And what he says here, your worry-free number, really stuck with me in my own personal life. Like, I think there's like emotional weight to agonizing over money I think a lot of people put so much emotional weight on $5 or $3. When in reality, you can enjoy your life better if you order the steak instead of the chicken, like he says in this example.

Starting point is 00:34:42 And it's really not going to hurt you long term to enjoy the moment. This is a lesson that I am continuing to struggle to learn. I have a very, very loving relationship with Rame. I really admire what he's doing on his podcast, on his whole I Will Teach You Network, because he wants you to understand the power of the money that you have and how it can enrich your life. And this is something that I struggle with from childhood. I am a frugal person.

Starting point is 00:35:25 I believe he called me cheap. But this worry-free number, he's. He's talking right to me when he says all of these things. And I feel, I don't know if you heard my voice in there. I said, oh, I feel seen. I feel seen every time he talks. He is speaking directly to me. And my husband and I went on an episode of his podcast.

Starting point is 00:35:49 And he continued to share with us, like, continued to push us to learn how to spend money, to, you know, figure out what our blocks are for not spending money. And this worry-free number is, you know, hearing it again, that's just another, like, I need to listen to this thing like five more times. I do need to find my worry-free number. And I don't know that I have a worry-free number right. I know I don't have a worry-free number right now. It's like $0. As soon as it's a dollar, I'm going to worry about it. And why should I? That's so stupid. I have absolutely been the person who got the chicken instead of the steak. because it's $5 cheaper. And is $5 going to change my financial situation? Not now. Well, you know, Mindy, you and I offline and show planning, we've talked so much about this.

Starting point is 00:36:42 Like, we've really talked to this to death. And, you know, I'm just going to say, I'm sure it's what the audience is thinking. Like, you're an effing millionaire. Like, it's okay. You can splurge on the things that that make your life more enjoyable, like the stake. And the cool thing in our relationship, our personal relationship talking through these shows is I've actually seen you and Carl start to do that. When I first met you, I think that there was a lot of emotion towards spending money or like, you'd come to me and be like, oh my God, I spent money on this thing. I'd be like, yeah, girlfriend, like, dope. And you're like, no, but like I spent money on this thing. And I'm like, uh-huh. I'm like, you're fine. It's fine. But like as our relationship is evolving, we talk through these things,

Starting point is 00:37:26 like now I'm seeing you and you and Carl like joyfully spent money. And I think you in some ways you, I think rather than a worry free number, you've made more worry free purchases. So like Carl finally bought us Tesla. And since I met you three years ago, all you two have talked about is buying a freaking Tesla or you've gone on those vacations. You know what I mean? And it's like you guys are finally taking action on those purchases that bring you a lot of joy and you're really excited about. So that's been really cool to watch you evolve into that after all these episodes with From Me Now. Well, thank you. I am really trying. And now we are looking at the time cost of things and trying to take that into consideration as much or more than the monetary cost of things. because we have a very finite amount of time, but we have now accumulated a lot of money.

Starting point is 00:38:27 So if I am going to be throwing 27 hours at something or $2,700, I'm going to throw $2,700 at it. I'm going to get my 27 hours back. And it is something that we have learned through many conversations with Rameet. But the worry-free number, stop focusing on $3 questions, focus on $30,000 questions or $300,000 questions. I'm probably going to focus on like $300 questions as opposed to $3 questions. I don't know that I can just jump into the $30,000, but baby steps.

Starting point is 00:39:05 I think I want to point out to our audience, too, is like I think that there is also like an inflection point for your worry-free number. Like if you're fresh and new on your journey to budgeting, like I was. a number of years ago when I started at bigger pockets. Like, I think it should be a $3 question. Like, do I really need the Starbucks latte while I go to Target? Like, the answer is probably no, unless it brings you the utmost joy, then I say 100% do it. But I think that there is this crossroads where you get to the point of like, it does bring

Starting point is 00:39:35 me joy. It doesn't really matter. I'm making X amount of money. It's within my budget. And budget means what I can spend on. And you just do it. But I think that there is this point of like, you do need to be. frugal. You do need a real, real things in. Like, and maybe every dollar is a worry dollar. But then you get to this

Starting point is 00:39:53 point where you're at many, where you do have, you can have a worry-free number. But I think the thing that is, the bigger overarching question that's really being discussed in this clip is I think something we try to answer on the show a lot, which is the emotional weight of money. And how impactful that is, no matter if it's $3,000, $3,000, $30,000, that's different for everybody. But money is super emotional. And what we're me is trying to say in this is remove some of that emotion for when it doesn't matter. If it's a $3 thing and you're a millionaire, stop putting so much of your excess energy into that decision. Right there.

Starting point is 00:40:34 Don't put so much of your energy into one decision. That is one of the goals that Carl and I are working on this year. And if you are finding yourself in a similar situation, my dear listeners, I hope you are also going to make that one of your goals. And so, Mindy, the thing I just really need to know coming out of this clip is how are you enjoying your Tesla? It is a delight to drive. I hate putting gas in my car. And I love having no gas to put in this car. Oh, good. See, you're reducing a pain point in your life. Like, well worth every penny. Like, you've earned it. You're at that point. I love it. But, Mindy, before we end the show here, I think something that would be nice to, I don't know, that our eyes cross our tease is I'd like to just spend a couple minutes and talk about, you know, we're the money show in 2024, you know, and the things that we're looking at ahead, the things we're excited about. And also, I guess, put down to our audience that we want to hear from you and we want to know the things you want to listen to this coming year. Caitlin, what I am excited about going forward is continuing what we've done.

Starting point is 00:41:48 We're entering our seventh year of podcasting. 500 episodes in the bag, 500,000 to go, like I said at the beginning of the show. I love telling money stories. I love bringing people on to share how they reach financial independence or to share their story on the journey to financial independence. I love the Finance Friday episodes where people call up and have very real problems that they need help solving. Sometimes you're in the thick of it and you can't think of anything else to do except what you're doing. So Scott and I come in and have very different life experiences and just having people look at it from a different perspective can give you a different direction to go that can help ease. your cash flow problems or help encourage you to find a new job or help with whatever money

Starting point is 00:42:47 problem that you're having. And I'm super looking forward to continuing that in 2024 and beyond. Yeah, I think that that's great. I think that the money show gives the average person a toolkit to financial awareness, financial independence if they choose that as their past. And what I'm really looking forward to in 2024 is continuing to give out that toolkit to our audience to bring in more diverse money stories to bring in different ways to earn income, to grow, different strategies to save, and really just to grow the awareness of the many tools that we have. One of the best things a mentor told me when I was in college is there's a million ways to do things.

Starting point is 00:43:29 All you have to do is find one that works for you. And I think that the money show is really good at doing that. And so I'm excited to just helping continue bring all those different roads to wealth and abundance to our audience. Well, Caitlin, thank you so very much for joining me today on this look back at some of my favorite episodes, some of our favorite episodes of the Money podcast. Oh, thank you, Mindy. I love you, lady. I love you too. That wraps up this 500th episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. She is our wonderful senior producer, Kalid Bennett, and I am Mindy Jensen. And in honor of going all the way back to the beginning, I'm going to say, see you later, Alligator.

Starting point is 00:44:12 If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash Bigger Pockets Money. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kalin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copyrighted. by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.

BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 500: FIRE Advice from Codie Sanchez, Ramit Sethi, Money with Katie, and More!

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