BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 506: How to Use Your Money "Archetype" to Address Your Biggest Financial Burdens

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

After tremendous research, the “MoneyType” quiz was finally released. All you need to do is answer some basic questions, and in a matter of minutes, you’ll know your biggest financial strengths and burdens, the money traps you could fall into, and how to use your own money “gift” to make your life, and your loved ones’ lives, even better. But before you write off the MoneyType quiz as just another personality test, we can tell you from personal experience it’s shockingly accurate. And there’s no one better to talk about the MoneyType process than the co-founder of HerMoney and co-creator of the MoneyType personality quiz, Jean Chatzky. Jean’s team tested the MoneyType process on hundreds of people, uncovering the core personality traits that could make you a producer, visionary, nurturer, independent, or connoisseur, and what to do once you know what MoneyType you are. In today’s show, Mindy and Scott share their results from the quiz as Jean walks through each of these financial archetypes in detail. You’ll learn what strengths each archetype has, the financial pitfalls they easily fall into, the gifts they can use to empower themselves and others, and the financial pleasures each type lives for. Plus, you can take the MoneyType quiz completely for free here! In This Episode We Cover The five financial archetypes and the pros, cons, and pitfalls of each of them Mindy and Scott’s most prominent MoneyType (and how it led them to financial success) The “sabotage” points of each personality that could lead to HUGE financial problems Using your MoneyType to set up financial “guardrails” in your life and protect against your personality’s downsides  Using your MoneyType to understand your partner, family members, and friends more Mindy’s two-percent MoneyType match that proves why it’s SO hard for her to spend money And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group Network with Other Investors on The Path to FIRE Through the BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Mindy on BiggerPockets Scott on BiggePockets Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Money Moment Find an Investor-Friendly Agent in Your Area Find Investor-Friendly Lenders Take the Free MoneyType Quiz Understanding How Your Personal Money Story Shapes Your Financial Future w/Jean Chatzky Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-506   Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email us: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast, my dear listeners. On today's episode, we talk about the five money archetypes. These archetypes are similar to the five love languages and can be just as powerful a tool in starting great money conversations with yourself, your spouse, your friends, and your family. Yeah, these five archetypes are the result of a quiz put together by Gene Chatsky, who has extensive experience in finance journalism, and who is the founder of Her Money.com. She's also a repeat guest here on Bigger Pockets Money. She partnered with a PhD in sociology to put this quiz together.

The output of this test really spoke to Mindy and it nailed who I am. Mindy says that she doesn't usually like these tests. This one was different and that's why we're going to talk about it today. Yeah, I really, really felt that this encapsured my entire money soul. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my producer co-host, Scott Trench. Great to be here, Mindy. Always like being a connoisseur of finance knowledge. alongside you. By the way, those are two of the archetypes. All right, we're here to make

financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else. Introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting or what your archetype is. Gene Chatsky, welcome back to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I am so excited to talk to you today. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. I think this is going to be fun, just saying. This is going to be so much fun. You created a quiz that people can use to figure out their money type. And before we dig into the money type specifically, I'd love to hear from you. What are the benefits of categorizing ourselves into a specific personality architect? So as fans of the love languages, and there are many, will know, we are all made up of some factors

that are wired in, right, that are totally nature, and some factors that are totally nurture that are based on the way that we were raised, usually when we were really, really young children. And understanding these things about ourselves and even about our partners, if we can get our partners to go through the diagnostic as well, understanding these factors gives us a tool in our toolbox that helps us understand why we behave in particular way. that may frustrate us or perplex us or excite us, it helps us change our behavior in ways that can actually help us get where we want to go. And particularly in important fields like money or like relationships that can be so frustrating, having this level of understanding is really key.

I always have a little bit of skepticism when I take these quizzes, and I was shocked at how spot on you were when it revealed my truth. I'm like, I can't argue with this even one little bit. Yeah, I hear this. I hear this all the time. And this is where I take a step back and say, thank you for giving me credit for money type. But I'm not the brains behind money type. We worked. The money type is at hermoney.com.

We worked with a PhD who specializes in archetypes to develop this. And she spent a really, really long time, not just developing the questionnaire and the test, but then testing it on hundreds of people to make sure that people would get the kind of results that you got. I mean, it went through a lot of testing to make sure that actually it worked. So it does. You know, are there any risks associated with this? Like, you know, do people believe or take their prototype too far and allow that to infusing their identity? Or is it, is there, are the things you should be aware of when you take a test like this? I think the risk is, and I think that's a great question, by the way, Scott, I think the risk is that you say, well, that's just the way I am.

I can't do anything about it. That's just the way I am. And that is something that you can fall back on in a lot of different situations, right? I mean, I'm thinking of a woman that I know who I have, who was raised by a mom who was very, very critical of her, particularly when it came to her weight. And now she is very critical of her daughter when it comes to her weight. And I've said to her, like, you hated when your mother did that to you. Why do you keep doing this? And she says, I can't help it, right? And I think that's the risk.

The risk is that we learn something. about ourselves and then we think we can't help it. But actually, the point of money type is to enable you to help it. The point is to give you insight into the way that you naturally tend to be so that if those tendencies aren't benefiting you when it comes to seeking the financial future, that you want, you have the wherewithal to understand and make some changes. And now we're going to take a quick break. When we're back, Gene will go through each of the money types for us and we'll each

determine where we fall within the archetypes. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going and more important. where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one

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Well, let's go through the money types. What are they? Let's quickly first list them and then we'll get into each one. So there are five money types. There's the nurturer, the producer, the visionary, the connoisseur, and the independent. Do you have an order that you'd like to talk about them in? Let's start with producer because Mindy and I are both producers, and I have a suspicion that people who are spending their time listening to Money Podcasts might skew heavily towards producer. I suspect that you're right.

So producers are ground. They're diligent. They're consistent when it comes to their money. They like having money. They like watching their money grow. And I relate to this because I often will talk about visiting my accounts. That I think that that's an important part of the money process. It's an important part for me just to visit my accounts and notice that the amounts are moving in the right direction.

They are methodical. They tend to be conservative. They want to minimize their exposure to risk, and sometimes they have to push themselves to take enough risks. We talk in the money type diagnostic about strengths and weaknesses and pleasures and fears. So if it's helpful, I can sort of talk about those. So the pleasure when it comes to a producer is really racking it up, right? But also managing it. Like figuring out, am I getting the best yield on this high yield savings account?

Like that for a producer, that is the idea of a really good day. The big fear is losing money and not just losing money itself, although that is fearful, but losing control of money, of your money to somebody else. They sabotage themselves by saving compulsively or, as I said, sometimes becoming overly conservative. And their gift, their money gift is the ability to teach us the value in planning for the future. So those are those are your producers. So I felt like Jean was almost reading my diary, except for the fact that I fear not optimizing my portfolio more than I fear loss or loss of control around that. And that may be because I'm very high visionary in addition to the producer.

I have 93 producer and 87 visionary. So could we do visionary next and see if that? We absolutely can. But before we do it, let me just ask you a question. When you're thinking about optimizing your portfolio, is being able to do that a key part of how you see yourself, somebody who is able to optimize their portfolio? Oh, yeah. Right?

So this is, yeah. Then that's the visionary. side of you. Visionaries see money as a tool for self-expression and as a way to follow their passion. And clearly, that is a passion point for you. They are driven to do what they love for work. And I think we can probably all relate to this. But they're also really, really excited when something that they are working on turns out to be a financial success.

right so it's it's it's about doing work they love but also about getting compensated for doing that work that they love in in any way shape or form the the visionary's money pleasure is um when others recognize um their worth and their value maybe others invest in their in their product in their projects um their fear is that that element that somebody else might recognize is stuck inside of them and that others don't get a chance to see it. Visionaries, you know, fear dying while still holding onto that one amazing idea and not letting that amazing idea see daylight. Sometimes when we talk about sabotage patterns, visionaries can take excessive risks that may make them financially vulnerable,

but when it comes to their gifts, they also have the ability to encourage other people to take necessary risks, risks that they might not otherwise take. And they're your friend that you're going to call when you want a solution to a complex problem. When you want somebody to sit on the phone with you or sit on Zoom with you and really brainstorm the hell out of some idea to get you to a solution, your call on the visionary. Yeah, I think that the combination there is a good, is a good yeah, I think that that nails who I, at least how I see myself. I want to go to nurture next because that's my next one. I'm 52% nurturer. Okay, so nurturers, just like it sounds, they see money as a tool to help others. So Mindy, this is why you are sitting behind this

podcast microphone, right? Because you're a nurturer and you're putting all of us out there in the world to help other people. But sometimes it's partners, sometimes it's children, sometimes families, coworkers, employees or communities. And relationships are paramount for nurturers. They are just at the top of the list. And sometimes they are aware that the financial decisions that they make help other people more than they help themselves and may even hurt themselves. So as we get into what we need to know about ourselves, if we're nurturers, that's big.

Nurturers just love taking care of other people. They love providing for other people, giving material things to other people, making sure that the people that they care about are safe. That's 100% nurturer. And on the fear side, they fear letting people down and not having enough in the way of resources to support the people that they that they love and they care about. In terms of sabotage, you know, they give too much. Sometimes they give too much. And I relate to this a lot when I talk to people on my podcast, on her money, who are parents who have just are still supporting adult children or who stepped out of the workforce to to care for parents and have not found a way back

in and wanted to do it desperately, desperately wanted to do it, but realized they probably were not doing the best thing for themselves at the same time. Money gifts, the nurture has a lot of money gifts. They teach us the value of. of giving. They teach us the value of using money to give and to protect other people. I keep looking for fault in this, but you keep hitting it. Well, let's do an independent next, which, by the way, I think is not really the financial independent definition that most me think about. It's more, I would almost like categorize it more as adventurer to a certain degree. But yeah, go ahead. I'd love to hear your thoughts on

that one. Yeah. So I think that I think that you're right. I mean, when you guys talk about independence, you talk about the FI definition of independent, and that's not where we're going here. Here we're really talking, although there are some close parallels. Independence really value freedom and autonomy, right? So if we're talking fire, but we're putting the retire early part of it to the side, you do get to a similar definition of independence, of wanting to be a. able to live life on your own terms, to have the freedom to follow their own path. And they do resist

having money sort of dictate their choices in life. And for many people who are true independence, they also have had to acknowledge that the way that they behave around money may may not make sense to other people, that other people may look at it and think, this is, this is not, this, this just doesn't register with me. So, um, independence, uh, get pleasure in adventures and experiences. They're definitely, um, the, the new experience. get happiness from from spending money on experiences type of people. They they fear giving up more than they have to to have more money. And I think that's a very,

FI sort of a concept. So that's sort of where they sit. In terms of their sabotage pattern, they can sometimes face. to pay enough attention to their money overall. And by doing so, by living so much in the moment, they create financial hurdles for themselves down the road, which can be difficult to come back from. But their gift is that they challenge us to really think about how important money is in the scheme of life and in the scheme of all things. Got what percentage of connoisseur are you?

I'm 2%, which is shocking to me, only that it's all the way up to 2%. I thought I'd be zero. I'm five times more connoisseur than you at 10%. Okay, Gene, I know that the connoisseur is spending. Tell us more about that one. Yeah, connoisseur is largely spending. I mean, they love money, right?

And there is really nothing wrong with that. They love having money, but they also love spending it on things and experiences and services. And they love saving it too. But they like saving it with a specific goal in mind. So when connoisseurs are saving, they are, they have a picture in their mind of what comes next, what follows it. Like independence, their money pleasure is investing in enjoyable experiences and nice quality products. And I think it's important to remember no matter how you score on the connoisseur side that there are some people who are experienced people and there are other people who are throw pillow people. I think it's important when we are going to get the most happiness out of our utility of money to kind of understand if you're an experience.

person or if you're a throat pillow person because that should sort of dictate using your money in a way that lines up with your values and your priorities. Connoisseurs fear never being able to have the lifestyle that they want. There's a little fomo with our conno with our connoors. Their sabotage pattern, no surprise, is that they can fall into overspending. and that can compromise their financial futures. And their money gift is that connoisseurs are the ones who show us that money actually can be fun. And I think we have to thank them for that. Mindy and I are Costco connoisseurs.

Gene, what is your architect? So I am primarily a producer, but connoisseur is actually my second type, which is a combination that, a combination that Jennifer See, like the researcher who developed, the money type said she doesn't see a ton of, but I find it sort of yin and yang for me. It sort of balances me out. I like that I enjoy saving as much, if not more, as I enjoy spending, but that I have the ability to sort of do both. Awesome. Seems like a great combination.

You're going to work hard and cast the money and then spend it. Work hard, play hard. There you go. Are there any trends you've seen on how women categorize into these account, these archetypes as opposed to men? I think more women tend to be nurturers. And that's just back to, again, hunter-gatherer kind of roots, right? We're just like women tend to really value safety and security for ourselves. We tend to value safety and security, particularly for our children and the other people that we love and that we care about.

Stay with us. We'll be back after a quick break. And when we're back, Jean will be telling us what to do after we figure out our money type. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial. picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your taxed refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial

life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances, this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with the code Pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in Edle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code Pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year.

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And we're talking with Gene Chatsky about money types, what they are and how you can use them to enhance your understanding of your financial situation. Okay, so we take the quiz and we find out what our money type is. How can we use this information to enhance our financial situation or our lives in general or alter our relationship with money? So when you take the quiz, it comes with. a diagnostic. I should point out, it's a free tool, right? We want everybody to know their money type. We think it's really, really helpful. When you take it, you get a diagnostic, which tells you the things that I've just told you about the type. But you also sort of get a playbook of what you might want to do to help yourself next, right, to think about making your life better. So let's say,

you are a nurturer, right? And you know that you are likely to use too many of your resources to help other people or you're likely to actually notice yourself doing that. You can put some guardrails up. You can decide that, yes, I will help people with my free cash, but I'm not going to go into debt to help other people. You can create a slush fund for helping other people, a separate pile of money and decide, just like you might have a separate giving budget. This is the money that I am allocating to help other people over here. And my retirement money is over here, right? So you know that you're sort of setting up those rules for yourself. similarly with the connoisseur, right?

I think it's important to, again, understand this is where I'm likely to fail, right? I am likely to overspend. I'm particularly likely to overspend when I am using a credit card rather than a debit card. So put up a guardrail where you decide, okay, for these, discretionary expenses. I'm either going to put the money in a separate account. I'm only going to use debit. I'm going to impose a 24-hour rule or a 72-hour rule for these particular type of purchases to try to rein myself in. And these are real tactical solutions that work because you understand where you're likely to falter, right?

It's like being a runner and understanding that you have to buy the shoes for pronators because you are a pronator rather than the shoes that are for people who just run in neutral all the time. Let's see. If you're a visionary, and you are, a lot of visionaries, interestingly, are entrepreneurs. and they're entrepreneurs who put all of their energy and all of their money into their businesses or into their side gigs. But they tend to think that their businesses or even their side gigs are their retirement plan and they don't necessarily need a retirement plan on the side. You know, they can open up an IRA, they can open up a SEP and they can make sure that they are putting money into that automatically, just like you

with a 401k so that it actually gets funded and you don't have to, you don't have to make a good, good and smart decision every time you want to make a contribution. And same deal with taxes. Sometimes visionaries get so enamored with what they're doing and with the money that's coming in. They forget that, oh, this is 1099 income. Nobody's taken anything out. I have to pay taxes when tax time rolls around, aggregate and separate that money. money. For producers, like all of us, target date funds. If you know that you are not the kind of person who's going to take enough risk, get yourself into a solution that's going to take enough risk for you, right? It could be a managed account. It could be a target date fund. It could be a

balanced fund, but put yourself, it could be a robo advisor or a financial advisor, puts yourself in a situation where you know that the risk that you need to take is actually going to get taken. And for those independence, you know, we know that for a lot of independence, investing, it feels a little too corporate. It doesn't feel in touch with their values. These are the kind of folks who might be attracted to an ESG kind of fund or to values-based investing. And there's a lot of research on how to do that in a way that you don't compromise on

return. So these are just, you know, just a few thoughts, but there are a lot more out there in our in our diagnostic tools. So I've noticed that with other kind of these personality tests that I've done in the past, you know, like the Myers-Briggs or whatever, that I was, I'll be like right on the bubble for whether I'm an extrovert or introvert or whatever. And I think I got that on this one, but that they slowly shift over time, right? Like I used to be an I and now I'm more of an E, for example, extrovert instead of

introvert on that. Do you think that that you can, that that changes, that that, that, that, that people, people's archetypes in this area will also change over time, as their wealth increases or their life progresses? I think so. I think, and it's not just as their wealth increases or their life progresses, but I think it's as they learn the tools that this test has the ability to teach, right? So just to go back to my little, you know, me search, because it's easiest to sort of talk about this in terms of what I've learned. But I have had to push myself to take risk, right? It's now easier to take risk because I've learned that by taking risk, nothing terribly bad has happened. So over time, it, you know, it's still hard to do, but I'm able to do more.

of it. And I think that's the kind of shift that you start to see. Should we be trying to change our archetype in any categories? No, I mean, you are the one who said these are neutral, right? These are not judgy. Because everybody is made up, I think the most frustrating thing, and you guys didn't mention it, which is interesting to me, but I think that the most frustrating thing about our test is that your values add up to more than 100. It's not, I always, I always, I initially I was just like, why, right? Why can't it, why can't it add up to 100? I want, I want nice round numbers.

And it just doesn't work that way because your parts are bigger, you know, create a sum that's greater than a whole. So sometimes you'll lean into certain parts of your personality, and sometimes you'll lean into certain other parts of your personality. And I think it's nice to be able to understand. that you're comprised of various facets that you can draw on when you need them. Right? I mean, I think we all know sort of introverted extroverts or extroverted introverts, right?

Who, who when they are going out to a party, draw on that part of them that allows them to be sociable and have a good time before they get home. and then collapse and have to sort of recover from that kind of an event. You are able to tap into these different parts of you. And that's kind of nice. Yeah, I thought the amounts were, like, I'm 89% producer. I thought it was, I have 89% of the traits of producer and I have 52% of the traits of nurturer.

No, that's right. But a lot of times people see it and they're like, well, What do you mean? It's not 100. And it adds up to 188%, which I take to mean I am 188% awesome. Yes, absolutely. So how can people use this quiz to understand their loved ones better? Well, first of all, you should take it. Your loved ones should take it.

You should exchange reports. And then I think you just use it to open up and have a conversation. Because if you are, let's say you are somebody for whom taking risk is not just easy, but really, really pleasurable, right? You're a jump out of the airplane kind of a, kind of a person. And you're married or you're with somebody who could never see themselves doing that. and, you know, who is, who's petrified. Having this sort of insight into them, a deeper kind of an insight into them,

enables you to say, okay, I kind of get this about you, and maybe even I kind of accept it about you. And I can learn to work with this in a different way. I can understand this is important to you so that, that even if it's not super important to me, I can give you this. And I come back to the love languages for a second because I think a lot of people are by this point so familiar with that bestselling book, the five love languages, and that some people are, their love language is words of affirmation, right?

they need to be told over and over again, I love you, you're amazing. And even if you are not that person, if you're with that kind of a person, if you can get yourself to be a sayer of those things, then your life is going to go more smoothly. So you learn what makes your partner tick money-wise from our diagnostic. And then you can give them more of that. And maybe they can give you more of what you need. And then maybe your financial life isn't as fraught as it might otherwise be. Awesome.

Love it. And this is such a powerful tool. You know, I thought it really, you know, nailed who I am or how I at least think of myself. with regards to money, where can people find this quiz to go and take it if they're interested? Moneytype. com. Moneytape.hermoney.com.

And we will link to that, of course, in the show notes here at Bigger Pockets Money. Gene, thank you so much for coming on the show today. We really appreciate it. And yeah, thank you. Thank you, thank you guys for having me. I am so glad that it worked for you. And I appreciate the interest in the conversation. Gene, this was a lot of fun. And thank you for creating such a spot on tool. I really had a good time taking the quiz and going through all the results. And I am excited to go back and click on all those little things and find more about the different archetypes that I have. And I'm going to make my husband take this quiz too and see how we match up. I'm guessing we're going to be pretty close. Awesome. All right. Thank you, Jean. And we will talk to you soon. Scott, that was a lot of fun. And I have to tell you, I was a little bit leery.

or skeptical of taking that test when I first got the link when we were preparing for the show. But I took it. I answered the questions. The questions made sense, unlike some of the other tests that, the personality tests that I have taken in the past. And when I got the answers, I was like, yep, yep, yep, yep, nailed it 100%. I really was surprised by how well it captured my money soul. Yeah. And let's be real. If you're listening to Bigger Pockets, you already have done all the work to research yourself around these other personality tests. Take this one too. It's a good, it's a good another primer. And I think we'll, we'll nail how you feel about money pretty accurately. All right, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it.

That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying, see you soon, future tycoon. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash bigger pockets money. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kaelin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.