BiggerPockets Money Podcast - 535: Achieving FIRE in Her 40s By Taking "Calculated" Risks

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

What would it take for you to achieve financial freedom? Now, think about what it would take for you to achieve it for your family. Many of us have parents we’ve seen work day in and day out, providing for us when it meant putting their dreams on the back burner. But what if you could repay your parents for all they’ve done for you, helping them retire and ensuring they can truly live the life they love without worrying about money? That’s exactly what today’s guest did for her mother and herself. After her parents divorced when she was a teenager, Delyanne Barros began what seemed like a two-decade-long non-stop grind. Fearing what would happen to not only herself but her family if she didn’t provide, Delyanne chose to go to law school to not only help those in need but also bring home a steady paycheck that would support her and her mother. After realizing that the nine-to-five grind wasn’t what she thought, Delyanne began searching for a way to get into a better financial position. As a result, she found the debt-free and the FIRE movements. Now, only in her early forties, she’s already started a business that brings in millions, retired her mother, achieved financial freedom, and did it all just within six years of finding the FIRE movement. Her biggest tip for success: Take a calculated risk and bet on yourself! If you want to find FIRE like Delyanne did, don’t skip this one! In This Episode We Cover When it’s worth it to quit your “dream job” to start your own business and bet on yourself Supporting your family and retiring your parents BEFORE they’re sixty-five years old Why even lawyer salaries often can’t afford you the life you want to live Paying off huge student loan debt and why you SHOULD invest before you’re debt-free The importance of investing EVEN when the market is dropping fast and you’re feeling fear Why you DON’T have to be self-employed to achieve FIRE (but you DO need to take risks) And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Money Facebook Group Network with Other Investors on The Path to FIRE Through the BiggerPockets Forums Finance Review Guest Onboarding Join BiggerPockets for FREE Mindy on BiggerPockets Scott on BiggePockets Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Apply to Be a Guest on The Money Show Podcast Talent Search! Find an Investor-Friendly Agent in Your Area Find Investor-Friendly Lenders Property Manager Finder What Is the FIRE Movement? How to Calculate the Risks Before Investing The Mad Fientist on Early Retirement in Your 40s and 4% Rule Updates From Extreme Poverty to DIY Wealth and 2 Full-Time Incomes w/The She Wolfe of Wall Street 00:00 Intro 01:10 Supporting Her Family as a Teen  07:34 Why Law School?  14:15 Finding FIRE and Switching Gears  21:50 Watching the Market Crash 27:37 Quitting Her High-Paid Job  35:35 Can W2 Workers Achieve FIRE? 39:19 Retiring Her Mom  41:44 Best FIRE Advice 42:54 Connect with Delyanne! 43:24 Take a Risk!  Check out more resources from this show on BiggerPockets.com and https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-535 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eight years and a hunger can be all it takes to change an entire family's financial future. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me today is the fantabulous Amanda Wolfe. Amanda, thanks for joining me. Thanks so much. Glad to be here. Bigger Pockets Money is here to make financial independence less scary.

To introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone no matter when or where you're starting. And today's guest is going to absolutely prove me right, which is my favorite kind of guest. Today we are speaking with Delianne the money coach, who also happens to be a good friend of mine in real life. Delianne is so amazing. She is killing it in the financial education space. But it wasn't so long ago that she was also in a ton of debt and hated her quote unquote dream job. And she is here to share her journey towards wealth for herself and her mother and is so incredibly inspiring.

Oh, wow. What an intro. Thank you for that. Delian, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast. I am so excited to talk to you today. Thank you. I am so excited to be here. I'm a huge, huge fan of the show.

So this is a very big circle moment for me. Woo-hoo. Well, let's jump into it. Delian, you are a product of hard work mixed with money management. I want to hear all about your money story. So where does your journey with money begin? Oh, gosh. Okay.

So I think, you know, like a lot of us, it starts with what we experience. growing up and we make a decision sometimes of am I going to follow the same steps that my parents went through or do I want to go in the completely opposite direction? And my parents, you know, did the best they could with the little that we had. We were immigrants from Brazil. We came here with very little. We came to the U.S. with very little. And they really emphasized education and having good credit. Those were like the two money lessons. Get an education, have good credit. And you know what? I'm grateful for those two things because I did stick to that and it did help me a lot. But that was the extent, right, of money education.

But somehow, after my parents divorced and seeing my mother's struggle, I knew that I didn't want to end up in that situation. I never wanted to be so dependent on somebody that I was left to start all over again and really, really struggle. And so I became an avid, like, saver and I became very frugal. And honestly, like, sometimes I say, you know, frugality comes. out of necessity. And that's what really drove that was like necessity. It wasn't so much like, yeah, let me like cut costs because it would be nice to do X, Y, and Z. It was because you had no

choice. Like you had to know where every dollar was going. So I always saved money, was frugal, and really, really focused on my education. I was doing everything in my power to get myself in college, in law school so that I could support myself and hopefully take care of my family someday because my mom was somebody who was never going to be able to, like, save money, you know, retire. She was a housekeeper. And I think my mom only went through, like, fifth or sixth grade. So I was, like, her retirement plan. And that's something that's very, very common in immigrant, Latin families.

Being the eldest daughter of three, the pressure was on. You know, so every decision I made was like, is this getting me closer to that goal? Is this getting me closer to the goal of being able to take care of my family someday, taking care of myself? and hopefully, you know, landing the dream career, which at the time was being an attorney. So that's kind of like where the journey started. Did your siblings have the same attitude about money? So funny enough, it's so funny how like you can grow up in the same household and people come out with like different money beliefs.

And me and my sister, my middle sister, we are very, very different. And she's actually helped me with my money mindset a lot because like I said, I was very frugal. And my sister somehow through her networking and meeting different people in her life, she was exposed to millionaires very early on. Like at 16, 17 years old, my sister was working for people who are multi-millionaires. And so she got a glimpse of what that life was like. And she saw that they were entrepreneurs and that they were not, you know, doing the typical nine to five lifestyle.

And she like, I think she started her business at like 17 or 18 years old. So she became an entrepreneur very, very young and knew that. that, you know, that nine to five lifestyle was probably not going to be her path. So we actually went in the complete opposite directions. I went very formal education. And she also got her master's in marketing and everything, but she knew entrepreneurship was her goal. And so not only did she want to make more money, but she also wants to spend a lot of money. My sister likes nice things. You know, she likes to find her things in life. She's introduced me to a lot of amazing hotel brands that I never knew about. We've taken fantastic, luxurious vacations. And it's all

because she opened up that world to me. It's just so funny how, like I said, we grew up together, but we both came out with like two different money philosophies. Yeah. Yeah. And as somebody who has met your sister, I can say that she definitely just exudes like luxury and like all the finer things in life. And so I love hearing that. But I wanted to ask you a question. So would you say that the core memory that kind of inspired you to break this cycle was your parent split? Would that be correct? Definitely. So then did you feel like when you were that age, when you were really young, that like you were responsible then to take care of the entire family? Like what was that dynamic like between your mom and your sisters? Was your mom just at a place like, yeah, Delian, go Delian,

go, take care of us? Or how did that feel at that age? And what did that look like? Yeah. So I was about 14, maybe just barely 15 when my parents split up. And my mom was, you know, the typical, like, and I don't want to say typical, because obviously I think things have changed so much, even in the last 10, 15 years, but she was basically hands off with money. It was my father's job to handle all the finances. She, like, didn't know what the credit card bills looked like. She didn't know where the, you know, conominium bill went. She didn't know anything. And so when my parents split up, it was a very, it was under very, you know, severe circumstances. My father became mentally ill. He had practically had, like, I think it was like a nervous breakdown. It was

basically overnight. Overnight, our family went from being like a normal, you know, hardworking family, but like very normal to completely shattered. My mom not knowing where the money was going to come next month to pay the mortgage. And I was the oldest. You know, my sister was about 11. My little sister was, what, four, five years old. So yeah, it was on me then to basically step in as a pseudo parent and help my mom because she literally was not going to be able to make the mortgage. She's like, I'm not going to be able to pay the condo fee this month. And I was working a part-time job at like a Walgreens type place. But I was, you know, helping her pay the mortgage very early on. Like at 15, 16 years old, I was giving her whatever money I made so that she could

pay the bills. And it was a very, very tough time for our family, very tough. I could see the strain. I could see the stress. She would come home, super stressed, a lot of anxiety. And that was, you know, obviously now I'm connecting all the dots because when you're 15 years old, you're just like, I hate you. You know, you're the worst. But now, like, you're a grown-up. You're like, yeah, she was under a lot of financial stress. That experience was what drove me to be like, wow, I never ever want to be in that position where I'm so lost about money and I don't have a backup plan and I don't have a safety net because look at what that caused our family to go through. So what made you choose law school? That's a lot of school. I am not an attorney, although I do have a

University of John Grisham degree, so I'm practically an attorney. But law school is the first four years that everybody goes to when you graduate with a four-year degree. And then there's an additional three years, which is not free. So why was law school what you chose? Because I hate math. That's the, you know, that's the honest answer is I am terrified of math, even though I took calculus, Okay, I took AP calculus and it passed. But I was terrified of math and it was literally going to be medical school or law school. And I'm like, I think there might be math and medical school. So I'm going to go to law school.

But also, all joking aside, I wanted to be in the public interest space. I wanted to help people. So I always knew I wanted like a service driven job. And I specifically chose, I was between immigration law and employment law and law school. I knew I wanted to help that community. and at the last minute, I decided to shy away from immigration. It was because it just felt very formulaic because a lot of the laws are like codified and it's a tough industry.

And I decided I wanted to do employment law, but I only wanted to represent employees. I never wanted to be on the side of, you know, the big companies and the employers. I always wanted to be on the side of the employees. And I had like a dream firm that I wanted to pursue and I thankfully landed a job there. And that's basically where I practiced law like for seven years. was with that firm until I moved on to the next gig. But yeah, I mean, law school was three years. I'm like, I can get in and out in three years.

I can start working. I can start making money. I could start helping my family. And so I was all about, yes, I want to help people, but I also want to be as efficient as possible so that I can make money and help my family. Okay, Delian, we want to get into your dream job and what impacts this had on your journey. But first, a quick word from our show sponsors that make it all possible. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their

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Welcome back. We will get into what life looks like today with careers and finances. But first, let's hear more about your early career. You chose the path of becoming an attorney. What was the motivation? Was it just the six-figure salary and a prestigious title? Well, I wish I could say it was the salary. But the truth is that a lot of attorneys do not make a lot of money out of law school. I think there's this stereotype that if you go to law school, you're immediately going to come out making six figures.

But if you want to do public interest like I did, you're definitely not going to be making six figures. I mean, I was very lucky to land a job that was making about $85,000 out of law school, which in a lot of places in America would be a lot of money. But I was living in New York City, and I had $150,000 of student loans. So that was barely paying, you know, my day-to-day living expenses. But, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I chose law because I wanted to help people. I chose the specific law firm that I wanted to work with because they were the best. They are the best to this day that practice employment law. And they specifically told me they were not going to hire me out of law school because at that time, they did not hire students at a law school.

They only wanted to hire people who either clerk for federal judges or people who already had job experience. And I was like, once they said that, I was like, it's on. I'm going to campaign for the next year and make sure that they hire me. And I was one of the first ever person, I think I was maybe even the first attorney that they ever hired at a law school and got them to like break that rule. And after that, they started hiring out of law school. So it was really cool to see them change that policy. Yeah, it was amazing experience, but it was sad too because within like six or eight months of becoming an attorney, I quickly started to realize that I'm like, wow, this is way different than what I thought it was going to be.

This is not what law school prepared me for. There's just so much more politics. There's a lot of, you know, paper pushing. There's a lot of timekeeping. It's very adversarial. Obviously, that's not a surprise, but it's adversarial from so many different angles. And then you're having to like micromanage your client and their psychology and what they're going through. So there's a lot there that law school did not prepare you for. At that moment, I was like, oh, this is why becoming an attorney is, you know, so much work and so stressful and why so many people hate it because it's not necessarily the law and the work. It's all the other stuff that distracts you away from the work. Yeah. Well, and especially knowing that it's not like you necessarily had a big community of people who you could lean on in like preparation for law school and kind of like knew what you were signing up for. It's like when you're younger, there's doctor, lawyer, police officer, nurse, you know, it's just kind of these stereotypical jobs, if you will. And so you're like, yep, that one sounds like it's going to make a lot of money. Let's go do it. So before you even got to the point where you realize like, whoa, this isn't what I thought. What other hurdles did you have to overcome? just like in the beginning of that career. It sounds like you made that first leap by just getting hired in a place where they didn't normally hire people out of school. But what other types

of hurdles did you, did you have to overcome? I didn't have a mentor. I'd never, you know, had anybody who necessarily like open doors from me. Like, hey, I'm going to make a phone call and like try to help you out and try to get you a mentor and try to make sure that you have the support that you need. And the firm tried to do that at different points. But, you know, even at the beginning of my career, one thing that I struggled with was writing because they were like, oh, you write like a law student. I'm like, well, how else would I write? I'm coming out of law school. Right. And they're like, you need to sound like a lawyer. And I'm like, I thought that law school did that. And they're like, no, you're writing like you're writing something for your professor. You need to write like you're writing for a judge.

I was scared the first few years of my career because the criticism was constantly about my writing. But after the third year, I was able to somehow, it just clicked and I got a writing coach. And I worked really hard on my writing. And from then on, I just started getting so much praise about my writing that they actually had me mentoring other newer attorneys on their writing and any issues that they were having at the firm because I was one of the quote unquote people who was able to turn it around, right? Which at the time I was so proud of. I was like, oh yeah, I turned it around and I proved them wrong. But now I'm like, yeah, you guys like, threw me in the deep end with no support and no, nothing, no resources. And I had to go out and find them and do this on my own.

So it just goes to, like now I can look back and see how much I was being gaslit. But yeah, I had to basically just do that by myself. Yeah, which it seems like you are one of those people, obviously, who can just like go and figure things out, which is I feel like such an. underrated skill set. And it kind of brings me to the next question, which is, so you go, you go to this law firm, you're making your $85,000, which is like not as much as you were thinking you were probably going to make, I'm assuming from the beginning, right? Well, I mean, to me, I felt like I won the lottery because $85,000.

I was making $28,000 a year before law school. So to me, I was like, I'm rich until the bills started coming in. And then I'm like, never mind. Like more money than you've ever had, but also, wait, this is still not enough. Yeah. So, okay, so then my question is, like, what drove you to that, like, fire, that financial independence retire early? What drove you to that fire way of thinking when you were making this a salary?

Because at this point, you just said it was barely paying for my day to day. What made you be like, yeah, I'm going to retire early? Oh, gosh. That didn't come until many, many years later. So here I am at six, eight months in deciding, okay, I don't like this job as much as I thought I was going to like it. And then I proceeded to do it for 14 years. Oh, well, as one does. Yeah.

Because I stayed at the firm for seven years as a litigator. And then I transitioned to another position where I was like an attorney editor. So I was basically creating resources for other attorneys. It's a big, big product now. but so seven years as an attorney, seven years as an attorney editor. And I was, you know, making close to 200, I was making, yeah, I think I was making way over $200,000 at some point towards the end. So I'm like, okay, I'm making $200,000.

This is it. You did it, right? You crossed the $100,000 line. You crossed the $200,000 line. And I'm looking around. I'm like, oh, I still can't buy a house. Couldn't buy a house in New York, getting outbid. And this is like 2015, 2016.

20, probably even sooner, couldn't buy a place. And I'm getting frustrated because I'm just kind of putting money in a savings account. And I'm like, is this it? Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? Because this doesn't feel like enough. Everybody's telling me you're supposed to like buy and build wealth and, yeah, prepare for, you know, your future. But I just felt like things were kind of stagnant.

And I'm making this supposed dream salary and things aren't moving. So that's when things started clicking that I'm like, okay, I need to look. look at my finances more holistically. So then I started looking at my student loans. I'm like, yeah, you're, you know, $150,000. I think I had borrowed about 90, 95, it had ballooned to 150, 12 years later. Because I was planning to pay those loans for like 20, 25 years. I didn't care. I was not in a rush to send Sally Mae any checks. But when I started learning about paying off debt and then this is literally just going on the interwebs, right, looking for ways to pay off debt faster. And then of course, if you fall down that rabbit hole, you're eventually going to bump into the financial independence

people because that's just one step away. And so when I am in the debt-free pool, I'm like, yeah, this is kind of interesting, but whatever, like you pay off debt and then what? That doesn't solve the initial problem. And then I'm like, I bump into the financial independence people, oh, now I'm excited, right? Now it makes sense to want to pay off all of those student loans. Now it makes sense to reprioritize some of my goals. Now it makes sense to start learning about this really boring investing stuff and go look at my 401K and why I should care. And I don't have to wait until I'm 65 to retire. When all of that started clicking, when I learned what a brokerage account was, which I didn't even know, I just literally knew about my 401K and I barely understood that.

That's when my whole world opened up. And that's when the plan started formulating in my mind. And that was around 2018. Wow. So that was really not that long ago. That was what six, seven years ago that you discovered the concept of financial independence, the concept that you don't have to work until you're 65. What were some of the first steps you took once you understood what was involved? So I had $100,000 in a high-yield savings account at the time, which, if you remember 2018, they were paying like 1%. So I was just hoarding money in a savings account because I didn't know what else to do. And I was trying to buy property because everybody's like, you got to buy property.

That's the way. And then when I realized, no, no, no, we're going to do this other thing. We're going to focus our money on the stock market. I took that money. I left a three-month emergency fund in the account. I took $50,000. and I sent it to my student loans. And the rest, I threw it in a Vanguard brokerage account.

That was the first few dollars that I ever invested by myself outside of a 401K was that, I think it was about $30, $35,000 in a Vanguard brokerage account. And that was in 2019, about four months before the pandemic and the stock market crashed. So when people are like, I'm so scared to invest because what if the stock market crashes. I'm like, I did that. I did exactly what you're scared of. I put money when the market was at an all-time high and it crashed four months later. And guess what? That money has 3x and 4-X since then. So don't think about that. So I have a really quick question because I'm obsessed with that. I can't believe, first of all, that you went from not investing to dumping

$35,000 into something because anybody who has talked to somebody who's new to investing, like, that's the scariest part. They're like, can I just do like $10 to start? Like, I just want to see what it feels like. Like, what made you brave enough? I'm going to use that word. What made you brave enough to like do that first step to take that first step and buy that first stock? I became compulsive. This idea took hold of me. And I think everybody who's in the space understands that when you first see a compound interest calculator and you start seeing those numbers. And the thing is, I didn't hear it from just one source. I went to multiple sources. I was devouring books. I was devouring podcasts. I was devouring podcasts. I was talking, you know, I was finding people talking about it online.

Once I started seeing the pattern and I'm like, oh, this isn't like a fad. This isn't like, you know, just somebody doing some get rich quick thing. I'm like, this is the way, right? It's going to take time. It's going to take patience. I saw all the pros and cons. And I was like, okay, I'm in it. I'm going to do this.

You know, I'm going to invest this much per year. I'm going to try to retire by like 45, 47, maybe 50 at the latest. I was just so happy to have found something that gave me an out of that career before, way before 65. There was no other option for me. I'm like, this is your exit strategy. Right. And so for me, it's like I just, once I understood everything of how it worked, I spent lots of time reading, researching, understanding everything. Then I was like, okay, it's time to execute.

And there hasn't been one moment of hesitation since I've started that journey. I mean, 2021, I invested $400,000. Whoa. You don't dump $400,000 into the market. Oh, by the way, also all-time highs again, I'm really good at market timing guys. But you don't do that unless you are like, I'm in this. Like, I'm committed to this plan. And I am not like a gambler by any means.

I don't even own crypto. I am not into fads. I'm very risk-averse. But once I am educated about something and I'm like, this is going to be. it. I don't see any difference between doing that and like putting all of your savings into a house, to be honest. To me, it's potato potato. Pick whichever one you want to do. Okay, going back to that initial $35,000 investment that you did in the stock market for months before it crashed. It crashed hard. I don't know if people remember. I'm a huge market nerd.

And I remember it crashed on March 13th. And it didn't just like, you know, drop a little bit. Over the course of like two or three weeks, it plummeted. How did you feel for first of all, were you checking the stock market every day or frequently enough that this, that you would notice this. And how did it feel when you see the number like you had 35, now it's 30, now it's 25, now it's like 12. How did that feel? So funny enough, I felt prepared because, again, I had read so much about like stock market crashes and the 4% rule and how it like bakes all that in and that I was investing for the next, you know, 15, 20 years.

Like, this is not money that I was going to pull out anytime soon. Funny enough, the overlap with this time, I started my business January 2020. So here I am sharing my journey about my progress. because I started probably like six months before just personally, hey guys, I'm going to start posting about paying off my student loans. If you're interested in following along. And the more I posted about that, the more people got interested in my journey. So I was like, wow, I think there's like this money coaching thing might be a real thing.

People might actually need help with this. And so while I am learning myself and like, well, I want to say, I'm like experiencing my first market crash, right? My first big market crash that I am really feeling because obviously I live through the 2008, And my 401K also lived, you know, felt that. Not a lot because at that point I wasn't investing that much. But anyway, I am not only, you know, experiencing myself for the first time, but I'm also having to talk people through it.

Because at that point, I'm getting bombarded with messages like everybody in the finance space. Like, oh my God, what do we do? Do I sell everything? Do I cash out my 401K? And I'm telling people to double down. I'm like, no, you should be. like buying more. And so I am trying to do everything in my power to take every dollar that I can to like invest. But at that same time, I'm also paying off my student loans. So I'm like, oh, man,

what do I do? And so I'm going through that struggle of like, how much money do I send to my student loans and how much do I send to my brokerage account? And I am like, that's what I'm battling. I'm like, how much money can I throw at this account? So instead of running away, I was running towards the fire, you know? And I think that all those, that time preparing and learning about how the stock market works and learning its history is the only thing that kept me from panicking. It's literally the only thing. Yes, yes, yes, yes, because it is so, I cannot imagine being in your shoes. Okay, I am going to start investing in the stock market.

Here's $35,000. And look, poof, now it's 12. So I can't imagine being in that position. It was hard for me. And I've been investing since God was a boy. So I have been through multiple downturns. Sorry. Sorry.

I've never heard that. That is so funny. It's been a minute. And I've been through multiple downturns. And I don't love it, but I have faith that the stock market will eventually go back up. So to see such a drastic drop. Now, we did have a rebound. And I think it was back to similar levels by like June or July or August of that year.

It was one of the shortest crashes in history or something. Yes. Yes. And it was like that I can imagine being on the, oh, now it's 15. Now it's 25. Now I'm back to my 35. Now it's more. Like that could be very exciting.

But the initial drop, like I can feel like when you're on a roller coaster, I can feel my stomach going up just by like doing that. Oh, my goodness. I cannot say enough good things about your mental. state. And it comes back to, you know, knowing that the stock market does have crashes. And I think for somebody who has been investing since, you know, 2013, where we hit the bottom and then we started going back up again or whatever the bottom was, you start going back up again. And you're like, oh, I'm such a genius. You're really not. You're just lucky. Exactly. Like, I've been investing

since 2011. That's when I started investing my 401K. But I'm telling you, I did not look at that 401K for years. Like, I just forgot about it. The money was coming out of my checks, and I didn't, I didn't even understand what it was. I thought a 401k was like a super savings account for a long time. I did not understand that a 401k meant stock market. And that is still one of the most common things that I answer to this day. People are like, oh, when you say invest, do you mean 401K? I'm like, yes, you're in 401k's invest in the stock market. And I never, ever judge any kind of question that I get because I've been there. I didn't know that either. So I didn't even look at my 401K. And when I started looking at it, when I became financial.

awakened. That's when I was like, oh, there's money in here. Oh, oh, this is like grown a lot. So I had put in over a 12 year period about $94,000 and it had grown to like over $300,000. I'm like, oh, this is real money. So again, that also reinforced me and that helped me to cope during that 2020 period because I was like, yeah, I remember everybody talking about how off of the 401ks were doing from 2008 to like 2013. I'm like, it's a very important. I'm like, it's a happened before. It was a lot worse then. It's going to, it's going to be okay now. And I don't know, just something in me just knew that like the economy was going to be strong enough to endure. And I was right. And you were very right, I would say. Now, so we want to hear more about how you

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Blake panthas. The ultimate. soldier. The best of the best stories now with even more from Hulu. Amazing. Have it all with 3-1 Disney Plus. Welcome back to the show. Delian, we were talking about you leaving your job, but that in theory is super easy

to talk about the actual going through with it can be really nerve-wracking and kind of scary. So how and when were you able to finally leave this like six-figure salary? Yeah, so that was also a big, big surprise out of nowhere. I did not see that coming because I started my business in January 2020 and my sister's a business coach and I turned to her and I was like, hey, I think I found the thing that I've been looking for all these years like that will finally get me out of law. I really want to pursue this money coaching. I want to help people pay off their debt and I want to help them invest.

And she's like, let's go. And she started coaching me from the beginning. And she asked me, you know, how much do you want to make? per year. And I'm like, I don't know. If I made like 10, 15,000 dollars, I'd be so excited. I've never in my life earned money outside of a paycheck. I couldn't imagine people paying me for like, you know, coaching advice. I've never, I've never been an entrepreneur ever. I told my sister for many years, I am a worker bee. I will never be an entrepreneur. That is not who I am. God, I was so wrong. If I could go back, I'd be like, like, we're so wrong. So yeah, that first year,

I easily cleared like $100, $150,000. By the next year, I was at, I was, you know, one, one and a half million. So by March of 2021, I was exceeding my salary at work by multiples. In two months, I was making what I made in entire years in a journey. And so it did not make sense to stay at that job when I had this business that clearly was just exploding. and I was working two jobs. I'm working my full-time job, and I'm running my business at night and on the weekends,

and I was burning the candle at both ends, but I was so, so scared of quitting my job because, again, I was like, what if this is a fluke? What if it, like, poofs and disappears the next day? I don't know. Like, I just had so much fear that it would just disappear. And it's so funny, because here we are almost five years later, and I'm still here.

So basically, I started the business January 2020, by March 2021. I have put in my notice in April 1st was my last day working a nine to five. And I think the thing that's like really hard to wrap your head around is when you said, in two months, I made the same as my entire salary as an attorney the year before. That is like insanity, first of all. The second is I want to ask like how that felt. Like was that because the work you were doing, I'm assuming as a financial coach is probably

much more rewarding than what you were doing as an attorney, though the type of law you were practicing I think was probably aiming to give you that feeling that you had with the coaching, right? Because the type of law that you were doing was really to kind of like give back to the people, but it sounds like you didn't get to do that quite as much, right? So how did that like kind of all tie together is where I was going with that? Yeah, I mean, that's exactly why I picked employment law, right? In fact, I even got bullied a little bit in law school by some of my classmates who were, going after like those big corporate jobs and they were going to get paid, you know, $140, $150,000 at law school.

And I would say, oh, no, I want to do public interest. And they'd be like, ha, ha, have fun being poor, you know. And they would like literally like make fun of me and laugh in my face. But the jokes on them because they all got their offers rescinded because we all graduate in 2008. And I still had my job offer. So I am very grateful that my firm was actually thriving during the recession because hello, everybody was getting fired, left and right, and they all needed representation. So we were

helping out a lot of people negotiate severance packages and deal during this really, really difficult time. And I did get to work on some incredible pro bono cases that I would pitch to the partners and I would have to convince them to take it. And they're like, yeah, we're running a business here. You know, I'm like, I get it. You know, it's not a charity. It's not a legal aid. But that's like, what I wanted to do was that kind of work. But I also needed the pay because I'm like, I have a ton of student loans and I need to help my family. I can't work at legal aid. Like, you know, it's, there's just, that's not an option. So it was frustrating because I wasn't able to like really be doing the kind of work that I wanted to do. And it was, like you said, I wasn't feeling fulfilled.

I was doing a lot of bureaucratic stuff. There was a lot of politics. So when I got to swipe all that away and run my business the way I wanted to run it and help the people the way I wanted to help them and have like that one-on-one, you know, interaction with my students all the time. Oh, my God. I just felt so full and I just would wake up every day. And I'm like, I can't believe this is my life. And I can't believe I created this business out of thin air when I tortured myself through law school in those 14 years.

But I don't regret that because that really did prepare me. Like, it helps me so much. Like, I don't think that I would have been able to do what I did as quickly without the experience that I had as an attorney. So I don't discount all of that. So you exude confidence. Did you ever have moments of imposter syndrome when you were considering going out on your own, when you were growing your business or even like right at the moment of giving notice?

Yeah, not when I was giving notice because let me tell you, there are two great days when you work. It's the day you get the job and it's the day you quit. Everything else in between is. whatever. The day you get to walk into an off, oh my God, if you have, if nobody's ever quit a job, if you're listening to this and like, if you've never quit a job, I highly recommend it. It is so empowering. It is so intoxicating, especially if you've been treated like crap and you just walk in, you're like, I quit. It's amazing. So I was so happy to tell my boss and she was like, well, where are you going? What are you doing? And I'm like, I don't know,

I'm going to figure it out. Like, I don't, you know, I don't have to tell them anything. I didn't have to explain where I was going, what I was doing. And I didn't. And I never told anybody at work that I was creating a business during my free time. And you don't have to, you know, you don't have to, unless you're like violating some kind of non-compete. You really, you don't have to disclose that to your employer. And I didn't. And I'm glad I didn't. So I was so, so happy to give the notice. I was feeling very financially confident because I was hoarding money like crazy. You know, I was paying off my student loans and I was saving my money because I'm like, God forbid, this business evaporates the next day.

I want to make sure that I have my safety net. But yes, of course, there was definitely fear that am I making a big mistake. I'm like throwing away a massive career that I spent so much time and so much money on. But I have been playing it safe for so long in my life. So, so long. And whenever anybody asks me, like, what would you do if you go back 20 years? I would tell myself, take more chances. Take more chances.

Like, be more gutsy. It's okay to fail. You know, I was so scared to fail that I just played it too safe too long, way too long. I could have accomplished what I did here many years ago. I believe that now. But, you know, everything happens for a reason. But, yeah, I just, I think I got to a point where I was like, enough, enough of being careful, enough of being scared.

It's time to, like, try something new. If you really want to build this dream life that you say you want to build, you're going to have take some chances and this is your opportunity. And I got very, very lucky with the timing, insanely lucky with the timing because, wow, the timing worked out great. Everybody all of a sudden became obsessed with the stock market overnight. That's all everybody wanted to talk about. And I was like, holy crap, I can't believe I built a whole business over the subject that

everybody's talking about. This is insane. I did not see that coming. I think the part where you just said that if you want to build your dream life, you're going to have to take chances. I felt like we were just sitting one-on-one face timing. Deleanne and that you were saying that to just me. And I'm wondering how many others out there are going to feel like that too, because it does take a lot of bravery to take those uncomfortable

steps. But I wanted to ask you another question as it relates to like entrepreneurship and W2 jobs because you went the entrepreneur route, but that's not necessarily like the route everybody wants to go. So do you feel like W2 earners have the same chances as entrepreneurs to lead their life towards financial freedom and, you know, why or why not? What are your thoughts on that? Absolutely. In fact, that is the path that most millionaires take is they are boring. I don't want to call people born, but you know what I mean? Like they have like regular everyday nine to five jobs and they're investing in their 401Ks and they are 401k millionaires and they're just, you know, squirreling away their money for for their 20, 30, 40 years and they do it and they did it,

you know. So that is the path that most people take. I feel like the path. I feel like the that I took is the very unusual route. The route that a lot of people want to take, but they're not able to accomplish it. I mean, I think it's something like 95% of small businesses go belly up, you know, every year. Like they are not successful. They don't even reach $100,000. So I never go out there and say, hey, I did it this way. So you have to do it this way, too, because I know how hard it is to be a successful entrepreneur. It is extremely hard. And I don't downplay that ever. My initial plan for financial independence had nothing to do with my business. I'm telling you, I didn't even have a business in mind when I built that plan. It was,

I was like the plan was to pay off the loans and then take the difference and just start pouring that into the brokerage account. I calculated that all of my financial independence numbers based on that, my salary, doing that for the next seven to eight years. That was the plan. Then the business came along and just poured gasoline on the whole thing and an expedite. it. But I swear that was a surprise. That was not part of the initial plan. A very happy surprise, but, you know, not part of the plan. Okay. So I'm going to ask you kind of an obvious question. Do you consider yourself financially free? Yes. Do you consider yourself retired? No, not fully retired. I say that I'm semi-retired because I work about 10,

that the most, 15 hours a week. So I feel like as long as you're still exchanging time for money, you're working, you're not fully retired. But I, you know, I am retired from like the nine to five lifestyle. I am a retired attorney. I would not put myself in the same category as somebody who's working 40, 50, 60 hours a week. So I feel like I'm kind of like in that limbo state, which honestly, I could kind of hang out here for a while. There's no rush now. Because before I had this very set goal of we're retiring by 45. And that means quitting law. That means stop. working completely. Now that I've created this other, you know, business, I just feel like, oh, wow, there's a lot more flexibility now. I'm not working 40 hours a week. If I want to kind of

hang out here and work 10 hours a week till I'm 50, we'll see how I feel. I've given myself the luxury of having that option and deciding when I get there. I don't have to, you know, make all of these hard and fast, black and white decisions that I felt like I always had to do with my previous career. So I've given myself a lot of financial freedom, I feel like. And I, and I have saved honestly enough that if I wanted to stop right here, right now, I could probably cover my expenses for the rest of my life. So you are, first of all, just freaking goals for anybody, I would probably say, but I want to ask, what has financial freedom bought you, apart from peace of mind, which I can just probably has no price tag, right? But what has financial freedom bought you?

Yeah, and like you said, it's peace of mind, but it's also being able to extend that to the people that I love in my life, specifically my mom. I've wanted to retire her for so long when I started the business. She also had a business. So it was funny because it was both my mom, me and my sister, all entrepreneurial women. And my mom had a pet supply store that she was working at seven days a week in Brazil. I had to like, and my mom's 61, I had to like twist her arm to take a weekend off. I'm like, come on, mom, you don't have to work like Monday through Sunday. Why don't you work Monday through Friday?

I had to like twist her arm. And so slowly I started getting her to take days off. And I was like, okay, well, how about we like, you know, just sell the business. You don't have to work anymore. And so that took time, though, in many, many conversations over time to be able to get her to that point. But the fact that I was even able to offer that to her. And I had to reassure her many, many times over and over again because my mom was like, I don't want to be a burden.

I don't want to, you know, distract you. from your life. I know you have your goals and you have things you want to get done. You don't have to do this. My mother never asked for any of this. It was always me offering. The fact that I was able to do that and that she was able to fully retire this year. She sold her store. And now she, oh my gosh, she calls me every day. She's so happy. She's like, oh my God, I spend all day doing like my crochet or like my gardening and like she goes to church and she does all. She spends her, she's busier than I am. Okay. The woman has a busier schedule than I do. And she is so happy.

And I just see like how much her, you know, her energy has changed since she quit. That is the biggest gift. Honestly, if I never get to retire, I will still be so, so happy knowing that I got to do that for her. Let me not start crying. But I am just so, so blessed that I was able to do that for her and that she gets to live like her, you know, my mom's young. 61 is hell of young. I'm like, yes, I want you to be like, enjoy these years when you're healthy and we can travel

together and spend time together. I don't want you working until you're 70 years old. And then when we finally go do something, you're like struggling with your health. So I'm just so thrilled that I was able to do that for her. So Delian, let's wrap up this episode by talking about some of the key lessons that you've learned on your journey to financial independence and some of the advice you wish you would have had in the beginning. Yeah, I think just like I mentioned before, the taking more risks. and taking more risks doesn't mean gambling, right? You can take measured risks. You can take calculated risks.

And that's like part of being an investor. That's part of being financially savvy. That's part of like job hopping. Whatever it is that you're doing, if you're moving to a different state, if you're moving to a different country like I did. All these things take planning, but that doesn't mean that they don't include risk.

But invite some more risk into your life. Just make sure that you're like prepared for, whichever way it may swing. But I feel like, yeah, sometimes not all of us, but a lot of us do play it safe, especially women. I feel like we play it way too safe. So I say if you're going to take a risk on something, take a risk on yourself. Like what else do you know better than that than yourself? And who knows, you know, you might surprise yourself. I know I did. Delian, this was so much fun talking to you today. And we will share Delianne's contact information in our show notes if you want to connect with her.

You can connect with us at biggerpockets.com and you can tap our community by posting in the forums, which are located at biggerpockets.com slash forums where you can ask your questions, share your goals and successes. All right, Delianne, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your time today. This was so much fun. And we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. All right, Amanda, that was Delian, the money coach.

And holy cats, thank you so much for introducing us and suggesting that she come on the show. That was a fantastic episode. I absolutely loved her mentality about the stock market. And if you, my dear listener, are leery about investing, go educate yourself about how the stock market works. I believe everybody that I know believes that the stock market will go up. It might be going down right now, but it will go back up. And I just loved the way that she was able to overcome such a shocking drop when she first started investing.

There is nothing more empowering than feeling educated and feeling like you know what's going on and being able to semi-expect the unexpected. So I completely agree with you, Mindy. And, you know, another piece that I really liked is around, you know, at the end when she said to take risks and to take a risk on yourself because you know yourself best. that really hit home for me because I've just never heard it phrase like that. And I'm like, yes, you know, we know that you should take risks and get outside of your comfort zone, but you know yourself best. So why not take a risk on you? And I thought that was just such a beautiful way to encourage you to do the uncomfortable thing and to go out and to take that next step to do whatever that thing is that you've been putting off.

And I like how she said, take risks, not gambles. It's not the same thing. It can feel like the same thing, but it's not the same thing. They're calculated risks. So don't just like throw it all on, you know, black at the roulette wheel. But think about what you're doing. Think about how you can succeed and then pursue that. Absolutely.

Take the calculated risk. Take the calculated risk. Yeah. Not a gamble. All right. Amanda, this was so much fun. Again, thank you for introducing us to Delian. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast.

She is Amanda Wolf and I am Indy Jensen saying, Fee, chickadee. Bigger Pockets money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Hajar Elda. Editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub, and lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.