BiggerPockets Money Podcast - Can I Hit Financial Independence by 50 with THIS FI Number? (Finance Friday)

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Is your FI number TOO high? Whether you are ultra-conservative with your finances or want a lavish retirement lifestyle, setting a high bar could make your financial independence journey much harder��but not impossible. Today, we’ll provide a roadmap for building massive wealth! Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Money podcast! With a six-figure income and a six-figure net worth at just 25 years old, Austin Crofoot should have no problem reaching financial independence by age 50, right? The only issue is that his FI number of $5,000,000 is much higher than most. As you’re about to hear, he’ll need to make several “bets” over the next few years, cross his fingers, and hope that at least one of them pays off in a huge way. Like many in the FIRE community, Austin also wants to avoid the middle-class trap. Scott and Mindy will show him how to balance his retirement accounts with a mix of cash, brokerage accounts, and real estate investments—giving him the financial flexibility to pursue entrepreneurial ventures and retire on his terms. Stick around to hear how Austin can take advantage of a rebounding housing market by taking on assumable mortgages with rock-bottom interest rates! In This Episode We Cover The “levers” Austin needs to pull to reach his $5,000,000 FI number The roadmap to achieving financial independence by age 50 How Austin built a six-figure net worth by just 25 years old Building wealth by taking on assumable mortgages with low interest rates Why the Austin, Texas housing market is poised to bounce back in 2025 Reducing your taxable income to maximize Roth IRA contributions And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on BiggerPockets.com and https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-616 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's Finance Friday guest is hoping to retire by the age of 50, but doesn't have a clear understanding of the investing order of operations and what is best. Today, we are going to break down the options that Austin has to make his five dreams a reality. Today's guest is young. He's 25 years old. So it's a great episode for you if you are young and on your journey to financial independence, but it's also a great episode for you to introduce the concept of financial independence to someone younger in your life. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, and with me, as always, is my

followed-his-on-five-dream co-host, Scott Trench. Thanks, Mindy, great to be here with you, and looking forward to helping Austin dominate life, money, and the American dream. Bigger Pockets is a goal of creating one million millionaires. You are in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. but it is especially attainable, and let's acknowledge it off the bat here,

for a individual like Austin, starting at a 25 with a solid six-figure net worth and a solid six-figure income. World's this guy's oyster, let's help him get after it as fast as humanly possible and know that he's got advantages that other people don't, being a single man in his mid-20s with all these options, but let's see how to maximize an advantageous set of circumstances and see how far he can get. Yes, Austin. Thank you for joining us today. We're so excited to talk to you.

Thank you so much for having me. Austin, let's look at your money history coming up to today. Where does your journey with money begin? Really where my journey of money began, starting in college, went to the local school in my hometown, got insuade tuition discounts, received a large amount of scholarships that the majority of my expenses were covered, you know, with room, board, textbooks, food, everything like that. So I was able to come out of college debt free, gave me extreme advantage to his day, you know, with that head start. Studied finance and data analytics in college. But really got me started as I did multiple internships that local wealth management firms worked out of a local trust and just got me and really just interested in saving, investing. And overall, my interest in personal finance started.

So are you working in finance now? No, no. I'm actually, so while I did do that for a few years, I just took kind of a leap. I'm actually currently in software sales. I work for a publicly traded tech company that went bed with for about two and a half years now located here in Austin, Texas. Okay. And what is your retirement goal? I would say it's more financial independence. I would love to reach financial independence at 50 years old, have more passive income and my current income, replace my W2, but really have the option to retire at 50 with that passive

income. Well, you're starting at age 25. So unless I peek in to your numbers in a minute and find like some just massive amounts of debt or like gross overspending, I think your 25 year timeline is probably going to be able to be compressed. Do you like your job? Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Really enjoy the day to day. I love to people work with really rewarding process overall. And as you know, I don't, I still have a job. I'm financially independent. Well, you might I know, but I have said multiple times on the show, I am financially independent and yet I still continue to work. So once you hit financial independence, you don't have to quit.

It just opens up so many more options because all of a sudden you get a new boss and you're like, wow, we get along like oil and water, I'm out. And you don't have to worry about, oh, I've got to find a new job or I have to, you know, slog along with this horrible boss now because you have set yourself up for this financial freedom. You can go part time if you still like it. You can go do a job that doesn't give you like any living wages. And you're not dependent on that because you've set yourself up. So I'm going to go out on a limb having not peaked at these numbers yet and say,

I believe you can do it in 25 years. Let's go see where you're starting. And do you have a fine number or a specific fine number that you're thinking about? I would say it's more of an estimation more than anything. Like right now my expenses are, you know, pretty low. So, you know, so many things coming up, you know, with wanting to start a family down the road, things like that, I wanted to travel. Pretty much about five million, I would say.

Shooting high for sure. But that's where I'd say it was like a pretty more than comfortable lifestyle. Okay. So that's your end number. I would like to encourage you over the next few years to think about your, like your bare bones number. I can, I no longer have to work. So if something happens at work, I can casually look for a new job or, you know, because five million is a lot, but also that affords you a lot. And you're 25.

You have a 25 year timeline. I think you can get to 5 million in 25 years, depending on how you're investing. So that's a question we're going to come up with in a few minutes. But right now, I want to look at your numbers. Are you ready? Perfect. Okay. I see a total net worth of $142,000, which is all.

Awesome at age 25. Let me tell you, 25-year-old Mindy, did not have this same net worth. Not even close. I do see a large amount in cash. What are you doing with this cash? So it was a few things. I think when I first got out of college, the first thing, you know, I had an emergency fundary set up. Second thing was, I just felt it was important just to set up a timeline for the next few years. I was already thinking of house hacking. New I was moving to Austin, Texas, was just saving for a house hack. And then just started saving more. and more, really. Didn't, was just, you know, going to my retirement accounts versus saving up for the next thing. Until this year, I pretty much stopped saving cash right there just for down the road. But originally it was a house hack and eventually a house primary down for around 29 to 31,

depending on where I'm at. But he did, Mindy, what I love, what he did at this is he stockpiled a bunch of cash and then he left what I presume was a higher guaranteed based salary job in finance to go pursue sales with a much higher ceiling. that is the best possible use of cash at 25 and just I'm going to give a round of applause. That's exactly right. That's exactly what I would do in that situation. And the return on that cash, sitting in the bank account, allowing you to feel comfortable with pursuing sales is a really high probability bet. And you could lose, but in your situation, like you can afford to do that

because of that. So I love that move. That's what you did with the cash for my view. Is that about right in your? That was exactly right. You know, I was 22 coming out of college. I had, you know, job opportunities to come into finance, good CFA role, that whole route. But then a family friend I talked to just more lifestyle, mentor, recommend joining a tech company first year out. But you're exactly right. Going for that riot. And they, I will say they do offer a pretty competitive base salary as well to cover, you know, my basic living expenses.

But that was really it, just like kind of betting on myself. Was it a reduction in base or was it actually an increase in base with commissions on top? It was a deduction mid-based than I would have gotten with a finance job for sure. First year of finance, yeah. Not a lot of folks do it. Love it. So you list your current income is $145,000. What is realistic for you? Give us some bands on what this could look like over the next couple of years. So it's definitely volatile for sure. It's month to month. But from I'm seeing, I would say right now, it could grow to $175, $200 within two to three years. Depending where I'm at, the company's, stay at, but they're plenty of, plenty of realistic to be in the 175 to 200. Pretty realistic in the next two to three years. Way back on episode 32, we had Mr. and Mrs. Pop on the show, Mr. and Mrs. Planting Our

Pennies. And Mr. Pop is a in sales. And he said, if you don't know what you want to do, go into sales because there is no ceiling on how much you can make. It's just what you're doing. And anybody can do sales. And I don't know that I would say that. Anybody could do sales, but if you could do sales, holy cow, you can make so much money. So yeah, I love that you jumped ship to go to the sales department. And your base salary covers everything. You're not counting on bonuses and commissions and things like that to cover your living expenses. Is that what I heard you say?

Exactly. Honestly, more than covers. So my first year when I came out, it was a, I would just say it out route. It was a base salary $50,000. Now it's able to minimally cover everything, more than cover everything. So I lived off that, if not more, saved more. And then every dollar on commission I made in my first two years was just getting saved,

save, saved in my cash pile. Okay. So I will allow this cash. And let's continue with your numbers. I see $35,000 in a 401K. I think that's awesome. You have 25 of that 35 in a Roth. Yay.

A Roth 401K means you have already paid the tax. taxes on that, and it's going to grow tax-free. At your age, I love the Roth option for the tax savings because your income right now isn't enormous, although it's $145,000 at age 25. 25-year-old Mindy was not doing that either. So I really love that you are thinking ahead in the Roth option. And another, you've got Roth IRA of $15,000 and a brokerage account of $10,000. Do you know what I don't see on here, Scott? Crypto. Yay! I don't care if you put like a dollar in crypto, but it really makes me cringe when I see people. They're like, and 50% of my net worth is in crypto. Okay. That's great for you. You used to be 10% to be fair to the people. Yes. Okay. So going over to the income side, as Scott said, you making about $145,000 a year. That's not too shabby. Nice job.

Thank you. Expenses? Let's look at these expenses. Scott, did you see this $1,400 in rent? Holy crap. Do you have roommates? I mean, holy canoli. So I, a little bit of background there, so I do not have a roommate currently. For my first two years, I did have a roommate, but kind of a caveat there was I bike to work and I get a $200 stipend and kind of like a parking payment to use downtown. I live, I work downtown as well. So like for me being close to downtown, found this great deal where I got one month off. last year. It's a good time to be a renter in Austin, Texas. It really is. I would have done almost exactly the same thing Austin's doing and probably would have lived a little larger if the market was as much of a renter's market versus a landlord's market in Austin. Like Denver 12 years ago, this was not, I would not have been able to get a deal like that. Exactly. So where I'm at a one

bedroom apartment for 1400, it's a pretty dang good deal. And I got one month off. So it came out to like 1240. Plus I get $200 a month in a stipend to pay for my parking, which I don't use so I bite to work. So that's my little caveat for living alone for that deal. So it comes out to around like a thousand, give or take. So while I love you, I do love living around. Definitely would have done if I didn't find this deal. This is a sweet deal. I love that you're only paying $1,400 a month in rent, especially at your salary. That's awesome. I was shocked that it was so low. It's very rare. But I will say what I've seen in the market just going on here, it's like people are offering, you know, one month off, two months

off. It's like they're struggling to fill apartments for sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, great. If you like your property, if you like the place that you're at, that's a great amount of rent. And I would not be so quick to elevate your lifestyle while you have this, this very lofty goal. Well, I didn't say very lofty. That sounds snotty. This goal of $5 million. Your numbers are fantastic. I see $3,800 total in spending every month, $450 on groceries, $160 on restaurants, $250 on travel and vacation. Like, nothing here freaks me out. The only thing I will say is that, and I'm sure these numbers are just rounded up, but everything ends in a zero.

So I would caution you to make sure that all of these numbers are actually accurate, and you just rounded them for sake of simplicity. But if you're spending $3,800 a month, you're doing great. Awesome. Let's move over to the debts. Wow, you have no debts. Okay, so that's good. When you have a house, you will probably have a mortgage, which is fine.

I see no rental properties. I see no pension opportunity, which is fine. You'll make your own. And then I see some questions. So let's talk about these questions that you have for Scott and I. Now we need to take a quick ad break. But listeners, I am so excited to announce that you can buy your ticket for BPCon 2025, which is October 5th through 7th in Las Vegas.

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Don't put this one off. Join thousands of small business owners who have streamlined their finances with Found. Audible has been a core part of my routine for more than a decade. I started listening years ago to make better use of drive time and workouts, and it stuck. At this point, I've logged over 229 audiobook completions on Audible alone, and I still regularly re-listen to the highest impact titles. Lately, I've been listening to Bigger Leen or Stronger for Fitness, the Anxious Generation for Parenting Perspective, and several Arthur Brooks' audiobooks that have been excellent for mental well-being. What makes Audible so

powerful is its breadth. Beyond audiobooks, you also get Audible Originals, podcasts, and a massive back catalog across business, health, parenting, and more, all accessible in one app. If you're looking to turn everyday moments into real progress, Audible has been indispensable for me over over 10 years. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money. Welcome back to the show. We are joined by Austin. The first question I have is more towards the retirement accounts focus. With the know the path of financial independence on my mind. I constantly hear you both talk about the middle

class trap. And basically where I'm at where my contribution limit, I'm pretty close to that Roth IRA limit. Frankly, based off, you know, the volatility of my income, I don't think probably will be able to contribute to the Rath IRA this year. It's going to be very close. But I plan on, you know, maxing out my Roth 401k this year, my health savings account. I plan on doing that for the next few years. I guess, you know, when, when should I debate on investing less in there? And right now, I'm very lucky where I can go outside of my retirement accounts. I can really invest everything and max it out. But I see, when does it come to a point where maybe I should hold back and start by, I'm really just investing out my brokerage, real estate accounts, stuff like that. Yeah. Well, look, my, my bias is, and, and, you know, look, I know I'm the bigger pockets real estate guy with all this, but I haven't. been as go by real estate the last couple of years for in some situations. But I think in your

situation here, it's a really good match for what you're doing in a lot of ways. There's a little bit of market timing in this, which is I know, you know, going to round some people up. But I wanted to show you quickly on this front, this would excite me if I were in your situation starting over right now and trying to get going at 25. This is the Austin real estate market in May 2022 when the median home price was $667,000. Today in January 2020, 525, the median home price is $516,000. Median sale price. That's something right there. And that pain, Austin, Texas, I believe, was going to see maximum pain in 2025. I don't know if at the bottom or that could go, that could go much worse throughout the course of the year. But I would be really excited if I was

sitting on 80 grand in cash at 25 years old in a market that is that desperate for competition and rents in there. And no one, I could float a couple, you know, a couple of good options there. I'd be really curious to see if you'd have your pick of the litter in small multifamily or some interesting single-family rentals that come with assumable mortgages, and you got all day, you got no rush. You can be super patient. You can take all year to look at that. But if you could get a 3, 4% mortgage on a duplex, triplex, quadplex, that's a

suitable where someone bought with one of those assumable mortgages up here, and you can defray a good chunk of that or, you know, really any property that's been bought in the last six, seven years that requires $70,000, $80,000 in cash to take over the, debt, you're going to have people willing to work with you. That a simple stuff has been a pain in the rear for a lot of sellers who don't like working with it, but you are in a deep, deep, deep buyers market in Austin, Texas, which I think is only going to get incrementally better for you as a buyer in the next year for it. So I'd be really tempted to start there with a chunk of that, and you may or may not need

a lot of cash to pull that off. But that would be like the first hunch that I would say is one of the first, you know, big, big moves I'd be really thinking about potentially making in your situation. What's your reaction to that? That's interesting because I was actually one of my questions as well. It's about, you know, about the house hack here, but the assumable mortgage is something I never thought about. Honestly, that's something that's interesting. I don't think the, you know, classic house hack here right now is, I don't say it's possible, but I had the idea, you know, I've heard about the idea with the adding an ADU, a lot of people turn into what they call a sneaky duplex where they

add a second entrance, everyone be the rest. And that was actually one of my questions as well. is that seems like the that one of the way you talk about Denver's a market as well like that's very similar here in Austin I feel like with the current price of housing but the assumable mortgages thing is something I'd never thought about and definitely we'll check out

you only need one one deal that works and there's going to be one I think within the next year and one way to test that out very simple exercise use this all the time but just go look at what's for sale and go laugh at the absurdity of the sellers and obviously you're not going to buy any of those and then look at what

has actually sold in the last 90 days. And you will find a serious difference between the two when you do that, I believe, in a market like Austin, Texas. You can do that either by just going on Zillow and checking it out, or you can do it by talking to an agent in the local market and asking them, show me all the properties here and give me the for sale and then do the sold. But look at those four sale ones and look at the bad first, because they're almost all bad if they're on the market right now. And then look at what's sold, big difference. There's a lot of negotiating power. And then you can use products like there's a tool called Assumable Loanfinder.com and a couple of other tools out there that you can

look for that will have the mortgages, that will list some of the properties that have Assumable rate mortgages on there. That product, I think, I'm not sure if it still works in Austin. It's kind of hit or miss in some markets. On my experience, we have no affiliation with them, but there's always like something coming up that that provides that information. So I'd be, that would be like the first instinct there. And if that works, that's a home run. And you don't need to rush it. You got a great deal on your rent.

You're probably loving life. Biking to work, probably close to sixth and downtown. Like I would like chill out for a little bit. But if that deal comes up, that would be fun. Yeah, that's what it's going to have an eye into. And the only thing I think is when I actually said my original email to you was with the House Act too is like I just got to make sure I'm staying here for at least a couple years too. That's something that's also been online.

That's been, I've seen a couple opportunities coming about maybe last year or two. too, but I just got to make sure that I'm here for more than a couple years with the House Sack. That makes sense if that's the right idea. Well, one of the things I've been, and this is really macro and market specific, which could be completely wrong and inappropriate and inappropriate in some aspects. But when I think about a market like Austin, Texas, I think there's every reason to believe in the long-term demand fundamentals in that market and every bit of reason to be super bearish for the last three years.

And I've been picking on Austin as my worst market to invest. in the country for the last two or three years. But that all changes at some point, right? At some point that slows down. And if you look, if you, I would also give you some homework of look up when the supply of single family units and multifamily units is going to hit in Austin, Texas. This is a simple Google search that you can do. I believe that Austin, Texas saw about 10% increase in multifamily units hitting the market

last year, which is absurd. No, no metro the size of Austin. in Texas will ever grow at 10%. No matter how good you like, you want to talk about how good business friendly or inbound migration patterns are, nobody grows 10%. That's why you're getting great deals as a renter right now and that should scare you as a landlord. It will take time for that to settle. But that new construction should be slowing, my guess is it will be slowing in the back half

of this year or early 2026 at that point. And so if you can buy a property that has locked in leases for a year, for example, or, you know, that might be a way to defray some of those risks. You should also do that for single-family homes. I don't know the single-family homes very well in there. But I think you'll find Austin's going to have similarly high multifamily supply delivered, especially in the first half of the 2025, and that will abate towards the back half of the year and into next year. You should verify all that, but that will give you a little bit more comfort and when and where to, like,

should I just do some research for the next six months, or should I begin maybe thinking about that little sooner on that. So that would be where I'd go. And I would be curious in specifically about small multifamily, duplex, triplex, and quadplexes. I'm seeing the most significant spread between, you know, in terms of the price to income that I've seen in my career, the best spread in Denver, Colorado, which I think is having a lot of similar dynamics to Austin. I'd imagine they're very similar right now. So I wonder if you revisit that on what is actually sold basis, if your tune changes. about how, oh, this doesn't work. Maybe that's, maybe that started to shift reasonably meaningfully in Austin. Definitely. Definitely check that out. I, frankly, the

assumable loan is something I've never looked into, but would definitely, honestly, never heard, heard a little bit about it, but. Sorry, and that brings me the last point there of, of, you're talking about how you might not be in Austin a few years. That's great. The house hack gives you the most flexibility of any option from an investment, from a living situation perspective. If you, you are, you have to break your lease. And then your landlords, got to be able to find a new tenant if you want to move right now. If you buy a place, then that's not a house hack, then you're going to have a different problem. If you buy a house hack, and I believe as long as your intent, this is something we should confirm, please

tell us in the YouTube comments, but I believe that if you buy a house hack and then have to get a new job, for example, that that would void the one part portions of the one year commitment for the loan. You should never go into it intending to do that. You should intend to live in the property for a year. But I believe that that is one of the circumstances that would allow for early exit. And after that first year, you have the most flexibility in life of anybody because you don't have a lease with yourself. You can leave at any point in time on there if you're a house hacker.

So it's way more flexible than the rent, even the renting setup, even in a renter's market. Yes. Scott, you are correct. It is your intent at the time of purchase. you are intending to live in this as your primary residence, and you will rent out the other portions. But if your job comes to you and says, hey, we're going to transfer you, as long as you're moving more than 100 miles away, I think it's 100 miles away, but maybe that's a FHA loan. And also there's other, there's other outs like your family member gets sick or whatever.

It's not, it's not like you're just like locked into this place. But like you should intend to, you should intend to live in there for a year, right? Anything else is mortgage fraud. But it is not necessarily like a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, prison for that for that period of time if there is a truly reasonable reason to move out that is permitted specifically. Yeah, case in point, Scott just bought a house. If he were to then go buy a duplex and say he was going to live in there, but actually not have any intention of living in there and getting a mortgage on that, he is committing mortgage fraud. So just intend to live there

if that's your intent, which it sounds like it is, and then you're not committing mortgage fraud. Your circumstances can change. They can't hold you there forever. But I love this assumable mortgage idea because you're in a great position. You've got a big bunch of cash so you can pay a difference if there is one. In Austin, there might not be one, a difference between what they owe on their mortgage and what you're going to offer to pay them. But you would have to bring that cash to closing.

So in a place like Denver where prices have continued to go up, Let's say I bought a house three years ago at $500,000 and now it's worth $650. Sure, you can assume my loan. Can you bring $150 to closing? A lot of people can't. So you would be able to bring the chunk of difference to closing and then assume their loan. A couple of things about loan assumptions. You can only assume an FHA or a VA loan.

If you assume a VA loan and you're not a veteran, then if you default, the veteran themselves loses their entitlement, I think, forever. The portion that you default on, I think, is lost to them forever. So I wouldn't focus on VA loans, but I wouldn't be opposed to them. The FHA loan, you assume it, and now it's your loan, and you've got that sweet 2.5, 3, 4 percent interest rate, which is really awesome. But assuming a loan is not just, hey, I'll assume your loan. Great, here you go.

It's a process that can take three to six months. The bank does not have any interest in you assuming that loan. They'd like that loan off the books because they can give you a new loan for 7%. And you don't want that. So you'll need a company to help you with the loan assumption process. I have heard good things about assumption solutions.com. I have not used them. I can't say anything about them.

Definitely do your research. But finding a company to help you with this process because it is a big can of worms and it's going to take a long time. but you've got a lease that you can continue with. If you're in the process of negotiating your new property and just waiting for the assumption to take place, ask your landlord if you can go month to month at the end of your lease. Even if they raise your rent a lot, you're not locked into a big long-term lease and then have to cancel that. Because canceling a lease is, I've heard two months is one of the most common amounts of rent that you are paying as a lease break.

fee. So I really like that idea of an assumable loan for you because you're in such a position of power and the market that you're buying into. But like Scott said, having a house hack is absolutely the most powerful position you can be in when it comes time to be transferred someplace else. No, that's all extremely helpful. Thank you. My dear listeners, I am so excited to announce that we now have a bigger pockets money newsletter. If you want to subscribe, go to biggerpockets.com slash money newsletter. All right. We'll be right back after this.

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money-free. Thanks for sticking with us. Back to Austin from Austin. I want to go back to that Roth IRA traditional Roth 401K thing. So if you are single, you are and make up to $146,000, you can contribute to your Roth IRA.

Between 146 and 161, you can contribute partially to your Roth IRA and then over 161, you're unable to contribute. But what if you make 150 this year? Oh, that's 4,000 over. Why don't you take 4,000 from your Roth 401K instead of contributing to your Roth 401K, contribute to a traditional 401k that reduces your taxable income, allows you to get into the Roth IRA? That's a good idea, actually. and I'm glad you said that because I've done something really interesting this year

and I didn't know that at the top of my head. I'm glad you said that because I've been using the Roth about the last year. I received a bonus this month that I actually was going to, we'll see what you guys say about this, but front load my 401K for the year just to get out of the way, if that makes sense. So I actually front loaded at the start of the year. My company will still extend a match after I frontload it as well.

That's where I thought you were going to go. I check on that. But if I did that, it's something I haven't thought about where I transferred to the 401K, I'd be able to lower it by however X amount. I have it already contributed to. So I was actually going to have a fully loaded, front loaded 401k by the end of this month. Did you front load that 401k yet? I'm halfway.

Okay. But that's a good question there. And when is your next bonus or commission check? I'm luckily. So that was last year's bonus for like an over. Oh, okay. You can quote a bonus. So I get paid monthly on my commission, which is also nice.

So I use that, basically I use that bonus as to cover my next couple months of expenses. And then I don't see a paycheck for the next few months. But, oh, for the 401K contributions. Okay, I got you. Exactly. Exactly. But that's something that's interesting. I'm wondering what the math is there.

It's like, I have a good Vanguard fund in my 401K for my Roth. I was like, I wondered that the difference there for the Roth conversion. You know, it's handed the Roth 401k conversion and the Roth IRA with a total commitment. But would it make sense to bring that debt, so I'm halfway loaded, bring that down to the 401K, so it lowers my taxable income, then go to Roth IRA, then max out the rest of my 401K. Does it not there with the taxes add up? It's my question, actually. I am going to try to understand this question.

Okay, so you want to maybe contribute to your traditional IRA. I'm sorry, your traditional 401k so that you could bring yourself down enough. I would actually wait until closer to the end of the year. Maybe you just crush it this year and you're going to make 200 and it's not going to matter. Although then you've got some in your pre-tax and you're reducing your taxable income and then some in your Roth that you are contributing to. I still like the Roth for you because of your age. But that is a tax question.

What do you think about that? That's a, that's a touchy one. I think, I've already kind of made my, my stance here of I'm on team, max out your age to say, take your 401k match, whether that's in the raw, if there's a Roth option, put it in the Roth 401k, if you can, if your company offers you the match option in either. If not put it in your 401k and take the free money and pile up the cash because you're going to, because you're going to just only increase your option.

If it, like I would be in your situation, you'd have to take this advice around there. It's obviously going to meet your call. But I would be like chomping at the bit of like this is whatever, whatever the bottom is, I ain't buying at the top here in Austin, Texas. And there's a lot of good reasons to believe in this market over a very long period of time. And a lot of good reasons to believe that it's a deep buyer's market. You're going to have really a ton of options here. The more cash you have, the more power you're going to have, especially if you're going to go

the Sissimba loan route. So I would just be like, I'm going to take that. I'm going to maximize cash. I'm going to make at least one play in real estate. Once that play is made, then towards the back half of the year, I can make that decision to then max out these retirement accounts with any remaining cash. Right. That's coming in.

Or maybe in October, you're like, you know what? Okay, I've made my real estate play. I have $20,000 left over. 100% of my paycheck will now go towards maxing out these retirement accounts. You'll have that option later in the year. So I would be just stockpiling cash right now, if you agree with the premise of, the house hack, the buyer's market, and the assumeable loan.

I would encourage you to look at, I just looked up large companies headquartered in Austin, Texas, Dell Technology, Amazon, IBM, Oracle, Tesla, Apple. I don't know if you've ever heard of these companies, but they pay their employees, you know, a nice salary. So having something near, like where you are and near where they are, I don't know anything about the Austin market. I don't know where all these companies are located. But if you could be next to Dell Technologies and you've got a tenant roommate situation or, you know, multiple tenants that are working at these bigger companies, that's just really nice to have that kind of optionality and have a, you want a tenant who has the ability to pay you rent.

You don't want somebody giving you excuses on the first of the month. You want the check on the first of the month. Oh, I had one last thing to say about Roth. Oh, I know what I wanted to say. Do not contribute to your Roth IRA right now. And if you have, don't put any more in there in the account right now. I am concerned that you are going to make too much money. What a horrible concern. But if you put too much in, let's say you make $175,000 after you've done all this other monkey business. Like, that's a great position to be in.

But if you've contributed to your Roth, you have to go back in and pull it out. And there's all this, well, you're a math guy. There's all this complicated math that you have to do to figure out exactly how much you put in and how much it grew. and then you have to pull all of that out. So ask me how I know. I did that once, and it was kind of tedious to do. So you can still max it out on December 30th.

You'll know how much you made for the year, and then you can kind of avoid that. Make sure that you can't contribute to the Roth this year. Like you have that, that is within your control and power. Like that has got to be plan A. In the event that things go very poorly, maxed out at the end of the year.

But I wouldn't put anything in it right now. And you can do it. that in December if you find out, oh, I'm going to have a big loss or things are going to go very poorly, not according to plan. Okay. We might have answered like nine of your questions, but what other questions might you have for us? So right now, a decent, not a large part of my salary, but like a decent amount is I, every quarter receive vested restricted units.

It may be one of the only mistakes I've made so far in my journey, but I've quite a bit of money still sitting in my company, you know, e-trade account. I'm sitting when I receive these units. I've done the ESP before. I didn't sell right after with this income as well. I'm currently sitting at about a $2,000 loss. Basically what I'm debating is do I sell for the $2,000 loss with that I believe my company is really undervalued there or do I take this money out, take the unrealized loss and I don't put that in my brokerage, save the house that from there. Basically, I'm debating, like, do I sell? Do I risk holding this single stock that I've died a debate holding in? Does this all make sense? Yes. I would reframe this as like, like, your goal is to get to

$5 million in wealth, right? And you're starting at $150,000. So that decision is, is really immaterial to the overall thing. So I'm going to frame, and then I'll answer your question specifically in a second here. But what are the leverage points to actually get you there? First, flexi Right. Something needs to go very right to get you to $5 million. That is going to be turbocharging your success in your sales career and or a pivot within the next five to seven years to an entrepreneurial venture like a small business acquisition or something you start and found on your own. I think you know that implicitly coming into the call here. So if you agree with that premise, right, then the sales career, what I think you want to do is you want to generate so much cash and keep your expenses so low that you can go. through the entire stack of tax advantage to investments next year or at the end of this year, as we discussed earlier, and just max them all out, HSA 401K, Roth 401K, if you prefer that. And then if things go very poorly and you still have cash, the Roth IRA in a traditional sense. You can also think about backdoors and stuff.

But go down the whole stack and because you spend $3,000 a month, also accumulate $50,000 or $60,000 a year after tax in your brokerage. So you can go through both in this situation, but the goal will be to accumulate so much more outside of the 401k in the tax-advanted accounts because you're rocking it so hard on the income front and spending so little that you're still building most of your wealth outside of those. Then you've got to figure out how you want to deploy that, right? If the sales career goes super well, keep plowing it into real estate, is my bias or stocks or whatever, but that big one concentrate for five to seven years and really kind of go big in

that area. Make sure you get a, you know, you're responsible. There's no leverage that can kill you a situation, maybe even go a little light, but like plow the cash in something that you can control that's scalable. Don't buy 10 different properties scattered across the country in random geos on a turnkey perspective so that you have problems in Cleveland, Ohio, distracting you from your $400,000 a year future job in here. But if you have six properties in Austin, Texas that are reasonably compacted and one of them is a pain in the rear and the others have created a several million dollar net worth problem. I get that problem a lot from bigger pockets money listeners, by the way.

That's a good problem, right? Oh, they made a million bucks or two million bucks, and they got a couple of pain in the rears that they just want to sell because they're so tired of dealing with that stuff. Give yourself that type of problem rather than the one that's halfway across the country or at least in several different GEOs. And then if the sales career is killing it and you're earning so much money that's just a coasting to FI, that's great.

But if it's not, then you're going to want to pivot to entrepreneurship based on what I know the few minutes of talking to you that I'm. know about you. So make sure you accumulate enough cash. You keep emphasizing the cash accumulation in order to do that. And I think that that will provide tremendous optionality within the next three to five years. It would be a grind, but you'll have to perform really well, sell hard, keep reading, keep communicating, or keep really good professional cadence with your clients. But that's the general framework that I'd be thinking about, you know, going here. And I could see a a series of house hacks or plus a couple of rental property investments and or a business,

all being in the cards there. That will have to go better than what you can put into a spreadsheet. And there's a very good chance that a business, for example, could do better than what's going on in a spreadsheet. So give yourself that option. And as a byproduct of this situation, you'll naturally also be building a stock portfolio that will carry you a big chunk of the way towards $5 million at $50. on its own. Like, that's the strategy in a nutshell. Sorry, I went on a rant there, but hope you see you nodding.

Do you, does that resonate with you and seem right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what I thought too, is we're lucky in a position where go after my, go after my retirement accounts early. You saw my Coast Fire question there. I'm front-loading them for a reason. Let those build up, everything outside, build up for that middle class trap, whether it's business, real estate portfolio. I know I've asked about turnkey properties as well. But no, this is all exactly what I want to who came on here for. Okay. I have a question. about your employer, do you believe in the long-term viability of your company? Oh, sorry.

We didn't even, I think I lost the whole point of the question there. Good, good point, Mindy. Yes, let's answer a specific question here. I'm so sorry, Austin. Yeah, yeah, no, I do. Yeah, I really do. And it's something that where I get paid out of recorder. It's not like an crazy amount of money, but yeah.

Keep it in. Yeah. If you think, if you think, if you think, if I went back a bunch of years ago and I was like, oh, I'm going to sell all my positions in bigger. pockets. Oh my gosh, I would regret it, right? You could still lose it on there, but it doesn't sound like it's a huge chunk of your net worth right now. And if you believe in the company, keep it in. You'll be putting so much more cash over the next couple years into either real estate or stocks that your portfolio will diversify, unless this thing does super well,

in which case, that's why you're leaving it in. Yeah. And this is currently a $2,000 paper loss. You haven't actually lost the money until you sell it for less than what you bought it for, right? Okay. Does your company have any unfair advantages? And I'm going to go on a little bit of an explanation here. Looking at the large companies headquartered in Austin that I know about, Tesla has the unfair advantage of having a charging network across the country, which makes travel really, really easy. And it's very difficult for other companies to come in and compete with them. That's a huge advantage. Amazon has this whole, we've been doing it since 1999 or whenever they started. So they have a huge network. They've got all these local distribution companies.

That's another unfair advantage because they have so much money. They can do this and they can kind of squash competition. And I'm not saying this as like I'm supporting either of these companies. I am a shareholder in both of these companies. But does your company have any unfair advantages? And if you can't think of anything right now, like that's a homework assignment because if they're just, you know, doing like we work, went out of business because all they did was rent properties and then sublet to other people. Well, there's no moat around that. Anybody could do that. And they went out of business. I think they coincided with COVID, but they didn't have an unfair advantage. Definitely not an unfair advantage. I would say we're not the market dominator, you know, in my industry. We're definitely leading not to go in the sales here, but leading in. AI integration and stuff like that. It's something I believe in and where actually our stock price it was about 10 times what it used to be. It's 10 times less what it used to be. So it's,

it drops significantly the COVID software tech industry hit hard. And I came in at a good time with my bestest docs in my head to where we were actually around like maybe 50, 60, $67 a stock and now we're much less. And I best it at a good time in my head. That's where it's like really been like, okay, maybe I should keep this for the long term. It's a bet. It's really just a bet. I think you make 10 bets like this over the next three years. I love one every 90 days is my framework, right? If you think about it, this is one of them. They're in a house hack or whatever it is in the next 90 days.

You just keep layering those on. One of them is going to, some of them are going to flop. One of them is going to take off. And as long as your fundamental core strategy of either real estate or stocks, you might say, I'm not going to, I'm going to avoid that entire house hacking nonsense entirely in a real estate investing. Just go straight into stocks on there. But as long as your core strategy is,

is seeing a huge plowing of most of your dollars. Taking shots like this could absolutely result in one or two out of ten paying off of the next three years. And you're having a nice couple of wins that, that, you know, jump, jump that formula that I know is probably buried in the spreadsheet somewhere with you, with your finance background, that propel it forward to some degree. So I'm totally aligned with this and like, you seem to be interested in it. Do it. It's not a core of your strategy, it sounds like it's just a really a side bet. So I think that's great. I would continue to, I wouldn't sell what you've got.

And I would probably continue to invest in the company stock because you believe in the long-term viability of the company. And I think it's a fun bet. And you have other things. You're going to be putting your money in other places. I wouldn't just do that and be like, oh, I'm investing. Yeah. See and run employees.

The way I look at it to is like every quarter I get that payment, I would be selling it in the future, but it's just my current stock right now taking that income. That's way it's worth savings. Awesome. I had a similar situation 10, 12 years ago. In fact, many of the aspects of your situation are similar to where I was at around 25. And before I was at bigger pockets, the company I was at offered an employee stock purchase plan. And I did not believe in the stock price of that company. And so I just took the 15% discount.

They were able to buy shares basically at a 15% discount and arbitraged that. If I believed in the company, I would have taken the discount and held on to them for a very long period of time. Right. I think that's the only difference. And I think I was generally right in that particular choice. And you are probably, you should go with your instincts on this particular one. If you were saying I'm going to have 80% of my net worth in the company over the next five years, maybe I'd have a different, with a base case plan, I might have a different opinion,

but that's not going to happen unless things go super well. It's only maybe 4 to 6% right now, maybe, a quick math. And then one thing I brought up is like, I've stacked up this money for a down payment. That's $60,000, $70,000 I haven't cash for it, whether a house hack, whatever maybe. After I've been front loading for the rest of this year, it's going to happen this month. I'm going to stock by all cash. My plan right now is Austin, it's, besides the assumable loan in the house hack, it's a high-buried entry for some of my age.

I've been looking to a more teen turnkey real estate in the out of the southeast. It's something I've been referred to. I see you shaking your head. No, I don't like turnkey rentals in your situation. And the reason for that is because your earnings potential is so large and your goal is so big, let's play this out, right? Let's say you buy a turnkey rental in Cleveland, Ohio, with 50s. $250,000 down and $150,000 mortgage. The best you can reasonably hope for is $250 a month in cash flow, right? That would be an excellent situation. And now you own a property in a C-class neighborhood in Cleveland, Ohio. You can pick, you can replace Cleveland with any of the cities that you are likely looking at here. Right. Now, let's let's decide how do we get to $20,000 a month in income, which is your goal, right? So $20,000 a month,

divided by 250 is 80 units. You're going to do that 80 times. Okay. That is that is kind of a truly absurd statement when I frame it that way in order for that to be a position, a part of your portfolio. And guess what? In five to 10 years, if you are successful in your sales career, it is a very reasonable possibility in the upper bound that you're earning $500,000 a year in income.

So now in order to replace $500,000 or $45,000 a month in income, you need 180 of those units. You're going to build an 180 unit portfolio in Cleveland or insert parallel city external to that. I don't I don't think that's a great move. Now if you're saying I want to buy 10 paid off rentals in one location because that's all I want, okay, we have a different discussion there. But I don't think that's your plan. I think you have an aggressive. I want to drive ROI to get to my $5 million net worth number in parallel with my and my investment. So I think that's owned and operated real estate or stock market in your situation on this. So I would steer you away from that turnkey strategy. Unless, again, you said, hey, I have a tie to Cleveland or

Columbus or whatever the city I'm trying to invest in. I may even raise a family there in a future, in a future because that's home. And I'm going to buy 10 paid off properties that are in a tight, tight kind of concentrated area where I will have my pick of the litter with property managers who would love to have 10 properties in the same block. Okay. Now I have a different approach to that. But I would be averse to that strategy in your situation. What do you think, Mindy?

I agree completely. I have not dived, dove deep into the Austin market, but I know that Scott has. And he doesn't love it for other people. live there. You have the opportunity to, A, assume a mortgage, or B, have roommates in your property, or you have the ability to potentially assume a duplex, triplex, quadplex mortgage. And I really like the assumable mortgage option for you. I definitely want you to do some research into that, because that could be a great way to get a lower price property with a killer interest rate that you, that's going to make the difference between making money and not making money.

And that assumable thing that Scott is going to send you is going to be a pretty sweet thing for you to look into. Yeah. You can imagine, like, let's say best case scenario is the market, Austin market goes, like, down for the next three years, you know, a couple percentage points a year. Like, that's a best case scenario for Austin, for you, Austin, not the city, Austin. Very confusing. But that's a best, that's a best case scenario for you because you buy one property,

you'll be like, oh, no, it went down, but you buy the second property also with a renewable mortgage, potentially, a year later, and a third one. And then, like, if you could pull, like, if that situation were to transpire, the next 10 to 20 years, almost certainly would see a reversion to the mean of 3% appreciation, and you'd have a bunch of properties locked in at low interest rates, where the people who originally locked in those mortgages actually took all the hit for the last couple of years so that you could get that locked in financing, for example. example. So I would be, again, I'd be, I, I'm not in Austin right now, but Austin is one of those

markets where I may look at the odds syndication or whatever deal in the next year or two because I, I, I think the situation there is so is one of the most extreme in the country, and there's an opportunity for someone who's smart and really kind of gets to know it well, um, to make some money in there. Austin, Austin is not a bad market. It just the, the supply dynamic was so absurd that it's caused the current problem. Anyways, I've harping that enough here, but Austin, was this helpful? We're coming up on time here. Was this what you were looking for today?

Yeah, this was extremely helpful. Just getting the ideas here because it's just balancing ideas off. But really just you need to make my money work, make a couple bets, whether that's a house hack, getting everything into stocks. Everything just really just keep throwing in everything out there. That's right. As long as you don't put yourself in a leverage position, where things are going to get wonky and force you to abandon the high upside approach that you're taking here.

The day you need to generate an $100,000 base salary to float your portfolio is the day you're losing this flexibility. So as long as you're making bets that do not remove that, like the house hack, for example, that has a super high probability of getting most of the rent in there that's conservative or stocks or whatever and you keep those expenses low, you're going to pile up some really good options and yeah, you're going to have to just make bets. The also other thing to think about is this is not none of these are all in for you. And this is really hard framework for from it from advantage point 25.

You spent your entire life accumulating $142,000. Your goal is $5 million. You are less than what like 3% of the way there. So you need to make big chunk bets as you described it in order to do that. And you'll have another crack at this every two or three years to rebuild the existing position, the way the compounding will likely work in your career. And I think you should go big and bold and aggressive and you can because your expenses are so low. No, this is really great.

It's super helpful. Austin, thank you so much for your time today. And we will talk to you soon. Thank you so much. Both of you, Scott. All right, Scott, that was Austin. And that was awesome. I really love his trajectory.

And I love that he's 25 and he's thinking about this stuff. I could have learned a lot from him if I was in his same boat. If he was next to me in my same boat at 25, whatever. I didn't do what he did. I still got here. I think he's going to get here too. What did you think of the show, Scott? I love Austin from Austin and his situation and all the choices he's made.

This guy has every option in the world. He should keep those options open. He should never put himself in a position where he's locked into an all-in bet that's outside of his work unless he chooses one entrepreneurial venture in the next couple of years. He says it's going all in on, but he's going to be, he has a very high probability of success. Yes, he can lose in any of the paths that we discussed there, but I am super optimistic that Austin has a shot at becoming a millionaire, if not in the next 10 years, within the next seven,

maybe even by the time he hits 30 with a little bit of luck. So this is the type of position that you can't really model out and you shouldn't lock yourself into a long-term financial model. You should stay flexible, chase that income and go after it. And by the time he's, again, hit in his 30s, he's going to have a lot of options and a lot of really good choices that he can make in his life. Yeah, I love that he's in sales because literally the sky is the limit on your income there. You are limited by your own creativity and your own drive. So he has the drive. I think he is going to hit it and hit it hard and hit it early. And I'm super excited for him. I want to check back in with him in like six months or a year. See where he's at then.

Absolutely. I'm also very curious. I've been really, really dunking on Austin as the worst place to invest in America for the last several years. And at some point, you've got to start changing you're tuned and say, well, if it's gone this bad for this long, is it time to start buying? I think it's about time to start buying, and I would be really interested if I was in that, and in that 25-year-old house hacking, serial house hacking range there. But I would love to see what you guys think. Tell me about it in the comments, and let me know if you think I'm crazy or if I'm spot on and you agree that it's buy time in Austin, especially with that assumable rate mortgage

strategy. I'm really surprised that the Austin market is so down because Austin has, traditionally been a really great market. And with all of those giant companies in the area, they're going to be employing people who may or may not want to own properties. It just, it seems like, Scott, I hope you're starting to be wrong. Yes. Well, well, well, let me be clear. I get to, I get it. I told you so on the market went down the last two years. And I think it's the worst, I think it was the worst place to invest. And now it could be the best place or one of the best places to invest. is what I'm saying. So hopefully I'm right for Austin's sake, both the individual and the city.

Yeah, so let us know what you think in the comments below. We really appreciate it. All right, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Indy Jensen saying, see you around the playground.