BiggerPockets Money Podcast - Losing $150K, Starting Over, and STILL Retiring Early | Life After FIRE

Starting point is 00:00:00 Today we are talking with Nick Johnson, a man who built an empire, lost it all, and then built it back again. All my dear listeners, as you may or may not know, my husband, Carl, and I have a new YouTube series on the Bigger Pockets Money YouTube channel called Life After Fire. And as a very special bonus, we're going to be airing episodes here on the podcast on Wednesdays. Without further ado, let's get into it. Hi there. My name is Mindy Jensen. And I'm Carl Jensen. And this is the Mindy. And Carl.

Starting point is 00:00:35 on Life After Fire, where we talk about what happens after you reach financial independence. Why do we call the show Life After Fire, L-A-F, laugh? Laugh. Because we're laughing. No, because we're talking about and talking to people who are living their best life after reaching financial independence. All right, we are so excited to get into the show. Nick, thank you so much for joining us today.

Starting point is 00:00:56 Thank you for having me. I'm extremely excited to be here and thank you all for the time. Yeah, I'm super excited to have Nick on. So the backstory to this show is I met Nick at FinCon. which is a conference for creators. And he started telling me this story of how he built up his financial situation. And then he made a move that did not go well, lost it all, and then built it back up again. He said, if I can get it once, I can get it twice.

Starting point is 00:01:21 And I thought that was so cool. No victim attitude, no pity party. Just, okay, I did this. I can do it again. So that's what we are going to be talking about today. Nick, let's jump into how you had built it up the first time. All right, act one, right? So what happened is that I originally was a computer programmer. So I was application developer. And so whenever I hear Carl say, hello world, it makes me gig a little bit on the inside because if you're in that world, you understand the backstory to hello world. I did that. My wife was a college professor. She taught psychology. That's how we started off. So everything was good. We were being responsible, you know, living below our means. We were contributing to those 401ks. So we were doing that, had started a Roth. So we were like, we understand. understood the basics, the fundamentals, you know, trying to, you know, live blow our means

Starting point is 00:02:10 and invest a difference. But what happened is that one day I realized where I was at, I was like, I just didn't really feel like the life that we wanted, we would achieve through just the traditional kind of nine to five that we're doing by W2 means. So I thought about, you know, what could we do to expedite that or even do a complete pivot as far as when it comes to what we're doing our careers. And so we decided to open up our own business. I was to say what kind of business was this? A little more context here. We live in Jacksonville, Florida.

Starting point is 00:02:40 And in Jacksonville, Florida, it is spread out. I mean, it is large. For those who may not know, as far as when it comes to, like, landmass, Jacksonville, Florida is the biggest content, as far as in the contiguous U.S., 840 square miles. It is huge, right? And so there was two businesses that we thought about. We thought about either doing real estate or we thought about opening a car dealership.

Starting point is 00:03:04 Okay. And being that we were in Jacksonville and everything is so spread out and kind of giving a kind of time check on this, this was 2003. So it really wasn't things like, you know, your Uber, your Lyft, your ride shares and things like that. So we say, you know what? We know people who would, if they had to choose between having their own place and having their own car, they would choose having their own car. And so we decided to go in and start a car dealership. And so kind of some of the challenges that go on with a car dealership, it's pretty interesting, especially when you're kind of small. mom and pop kind of dealership because that's what we were. We weren't one of the big names like a Lincoln or a Toyota or anything like that. We're a mom and pop. And so what happened is that you literally have to wear all the hats. It was a challenge to do that. And first of all, it was just coming up with the initial capital to do that. And so we were like, okay, SBA loans is this. And I kind of, again, for context, I'm 27, 28 years old. So I know a little bit, but I don't know everything. So I'm like, hey, I know we got some money. We got these retirement accounts. Let's get to go ahead and empty those out. We can use those. We'll make the money back.

Starting point is 00:04:10 And so that was kind of the seed money that we decided to use to start this car dealership. So that is how we decided to get in there. Some of the things that kind of the challenges that we had was, as I said before, when you're a small dealership, you have to do everything yourself. When you have your own dealership, you have the first of all, it sells, correct? Most people sell, go to look for cars on the weekends and we're after work. And so that particular part, you have to be there at the dealership to do that. But then you have to get cars, right? And so you have to go and get them. And so typically you have to go get them from auctions. And the cars that you get to auctions are typically the cars that, you know, the car that like,

Starting point is 00:04:51 you barely got on the lot to like trade in because like it was smoking and it would run hot and all this other stuff. So those vehicles are the cars that typically you get. at the options. I mean, sometimes you get cars that are off lease and stuff like that. So typically, they are in horrible condition. Um, so you go there and you, you get those cars. And if you're fortunate enough, you might have a team that can go and fix these cars for you. But if not, you got to be able to wrench it yourself. So you got to get cars, you got to sell cars. You also have to deal with financing. There's a lot of paperwork that goes on because it's, uh, facilitated by, uh, the state. And then also it's done fun stuff like you have to repo cars. I mean, so it's a lot of stuff that you

Starting point is 00:05:28 have to do. And then literally when you're like a mom and pop operation, I mean, I was doing days, it would be nothing for me to do a 16 hour day, five, six days a week, just from doing that. Nick, you seem like too nice of a guy to do this business. I can't picture me walking in there and you're like, hey, what can I do to get you into this car today? You know, Carl, part of the issues that I had is that I found out I was a little too honest for the business. I mean, literally, I was way, I'm extremely compassionate. And so when people will come to me and there's a, hey, you know what, I'm going through a challenge. or whatever. I'd be like, hey, you know what? I'm big on accountability. So someone will come to me as

Starting point is 00:06:05 they say, hey, you know what? You know, I'm having this issue or that issue. I'm like, okay, I was like, you know, can you make me whole next time? Or someone would say, hey, you know, I had a mechanical issue with the car and I had to get it fixed so I could make it to work. So I was very considerate to the plight that people had. But ultimately, it kind of made some challenges because the same kind of understanding that I had like the finance companies didn't have that same level of understanding for me. And so I realized that I think when it came to personality type, I think the opportunity was good. But a couple of things. First of all, I think I just don't think my personality fit for the business. Second thing was that when it came to work life balance, there was very little because I

Starting point is 00:06:44 worked so much there. And then also, there were some costly mistakes that were made because I didn't know the business. I didn't know anybody who was in the car business. So the original model for opening a car dealership going back many, many years ago was that you, buy a car and the hope was that you bought a car where if you got someone to make a down payment, it almost covered the entire cost of the vehicle. So that particular point, if they never came back again, you were pretty much whole. But as time went on, it was getting harder and harder to find vehicles that someone could come down and make a down payment that would basically cover the initial price of that car. And so you always find yourself being in more and more of a deficit because people

Starting point is 00:07:23 couldn't make those larger down payments. So it was kind of challenging there. So if you did I didn't have a lot of car dealership experience. Why did you choose car dealership to open as a business to open? Because I literally, as I sat down and kind of looked at everything that I felt like was almost a necessity where I was. As far as I felt like having a car was a necessity. Number two, I went through. I did do like, there was actually some courses that I took prior to doing it. And I kind of went through some of the courses.

Starting point is 00:07:54 I was like, okay, I feel like I understand this pretty good. And so at that particular point, I feel as though I had a reasonable amount of understanding of the business to get into it. So I went ahead and did that. There were some other things I looked at. I feel as though that the margins were a little too thin. Like I didn't want to do something like opening or car wash and some of the other stuff like that. So I was like, you know, I was like, I want something where I had residual income. And really the car dealership is what really interests me about the residual income along with. That's why I contemplated real estate also. That's funny that you say you didn't want to open a car wash. Carl and I drive past a car wash near us and every bay is filled with people behind it waiting to get in. It's like the spray it yourself, stick your credit card in there. I'm like, maybe we should open up a car wash. Yes, those are good. I would take one of those.

Starting point is 00:08:42 Like the kind of manual, hey, pull up like me with the bucket and the sponge, no. I can't do that. But the bays, absolutely. Those are a good model. My dear listeners, I am so excited to announce that we now. have a Bigger Pockets Money newsletter. If you would like to subscribe, go to biggerpockets.com slash money newsletter. All right. We'll be right back after this. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial

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Starting point is 00:11:46 over over 10 years. kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash BP money. Welcome back to the show. So how long did you own this dealership? My wife and I, we had this dealership for red at a year. Oh. So I got into it and we were feverishly going at it.

Starting point is 00:12:08 And me being financially minded, I did keep up with the books. And I kind of noticed how things started to go in the wrong. direction. And so things kept going and things kept going in around a year. We had literally gotten to the point where we were almost at zero. And I went to my, yeah, yeah, Carl, we almost at zero. And I remember I was getting ready to pin a check to the mortgage company. I was like, well, I was like, well, I know I got this month. And I wrote it and I said it. And I went back to my wife and I told my wife, I was like, baby. I was like, I don't know if this is going to continue to work out. My wife being the person that she is, she's like, okay, well, what we're going to do next? And I literally, I told

Starting point is 00:12:51 I was like, hey, I was like, like I told you, Carl, I was like, we got it once, we can get it twice. But the thing is that now we have experience and knowledge based on what we did. And so we know what things don't work. And even if you don't know everything that will work, your head when you know what won't work. And so we just literally went and said, okay, well, what do we want to do? I did realize that, you know, the type of business was important. Who you win the business with costs you want to make sure that the team that you have around you have. So it's a lot of things that we learned kind of in that experience that we could use moving forward. And from that particular day, I said, okay, let's get it. And so,

Starting point is 00:13:30 and this is the truth. I remember we stopped. We had vehicles that were out. And I literally, I just told people, like, hey, and literally, I told them to keep them. I was like, I was so over it. I would like keep them. And I mean, and me and my wife actually went back and we like ran the numbers at one point to figure out like just how much we felt like we ate during that business. And we ate about probably $150,000 in our business. But I was like back in 2003, 2004. I mean, we did it. But we had to like keep moving forward. So we just had to, you know, keep marching. So that's what we did. And so just to be clear, you lost about $150,000 on the business, but you also lost money because you weren't working your W-2. And was your wife working at the time? Or did she quit as well?

Starting point is 00:14:10 Yeah, fortunately, my wife, my wife reflects in between doing the dealership and she was an adjunct professor. So she would still, you know, do some teaching online and in the afternoons sometime. But I was doing the dealership full time. So I wasn't getting W2. Also, I lost from the money that we pulled out the market because we cashed out on our 401K. So the opportunity growth on that money was gone and everything else that we had. So, yeah, I don't want to do it. I'm pulling up a calculator right now.

Starting point is 00:14:41 Oh, man. It was 2004. So pretty much the entire year, 2004. Okay, 2004 for 150,000. I'm going to go for it. I won't say the number if you don't want to hear it. It's all right. You can do it and I won't go on suicide watch.

Starting point is 00:14:53 It's okay. Okay, it's taken a long time to think about it. So it must be a pretty big number. With all the zeros, I'm sure. Remember, you would have lost a lot in 2008. Yeah, I would have. That's one thing, the solace. And that's what I think about real estate piece.

Starting point is 00:15:07 I like, even if I would have did real estate. I probably would have lost my shirt then, too, because when the market crashed, you know, eight, so I'm like, either way I probably would have got served. Depending on how you structured that business. But, okay, so, so, okay, you shuddered the dealership. What's your next step? I often tell people, the quickest 10 years you'll ever see us from 20 to 30. At that point, that's at the backside of 30.

Starting point is 00:15:28 And I was like, okay, I was like, I got to ramp it up. So first thing, I was like, I need to start getting some money coming in. The quickest way for me to get money coming in, at that point, I had my, I had my bachelor's in computer science. So I was like, I can go be a substitute teacher. They always need substitute teachers. So literally I went and I started being a substitute teacher. I know it was like no lines, no waiting.

Starting point is 00:15:48 So I went there and I started doing that as I was looking for employment back into the computer field. So I did that for, I probably did that for around six months, six, seven months until I was able to get full-time employment and being a computer programmer again. One thing I did, I always appreciated teachers, but I got an even better and greater appreciation for them once I subs for a while. So I did that. I did that. I got W2 employment again. And then when I got my W2 employment again, I was thinking about, okay, how can I generate more revenue? Because at this particular point, the coffers were empty.

Starting point is 00:16:23 We were sustaining, but I was like, okay, I was like, how can I go back, try to make ourselves whole? And how can we get to the point where we can go ahead and start trying to get to where we're just not making it? that we're actually able to start back invested in doing things like that. And so my wife was an adjunct professor. So what happened is that they had a program at the university where that a spouse could get 50% off tuition. So I was like, okay, I was interested in teaching and being an adjunct professor as well, but I didn't have a graduate's degree. But I was like, you know what, this would be a good opportunity for me to be able to be an adjunct professor as well if I can go get my graduate's degree. And so I went and using the program that they had along with the tuition reimbursement that my employer had, it really allowed.

Starting point is 00:17:03 me to really get my graduate's degree at no cost because the way they had it structured is that they didn't do a lot of it wasn't a lot as far as reimbursement I think it was like around six or seven thousand dollars a year but it was based on calendar year so in my head I knew it's like okay it's about two years for me to get my graduate's degree if I start like in June of one year and have a roll over the calendar year to the next calendar year I can kind of get like two years in one year so that's literally what I did and so I got my graduate's degree I think I may have paid like maybe three four thousand dollars out of pocket for my graduate's degree at that point. And when I got my graduate's degree, Carl, you probably know this. There aren't a lot of

Starting point is 00:17:37 people in the IT field that have graduate degrees in IT. Some don't have any degree. Yes, some don't at all. So it was fertile ground for me to be able to get a lot of teaching assignments. I mean, I had at one point, I had five universities that brought me on as an adjunct professor at that time. And I was literally cycling in and out different terms. You know, sometimes I was working my full-time W-2 and I was doing like maybe adjunct, you know, being an adjunct for like maybe one or two universities a semester at the same time just trying to get that money up to make up for like, you know, kind of some of the time that we lost. I'll back up a second, Nick.

Starting point is 00:18:12 Have you ever read that book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad? Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. It kind of annoyed me in a little bit because he makes, and funny enough, I didn't even realize you were a professor before I started to have this thought, but he kind of makes fun of his supposed dad who was a college professor because that guy was a loser. He'd never become financially independent. So you have to own a business.

Starting point is 00:18:32 You have to do this thing. And I don't like that attitude because you can become fine just fine by having a normal job. It might not be quite as sexy. It might not be quite as exciting. It might take you a little bit longer, but it's certainly attainable. And you were the poor dad for Richard Kiyosaki. Is that the guy saying Richard Kiyosaki? Robert Kiyosaki.

Starting point is 00:18:54 I always mess that up. So you could stick it, Robert. Robert definitely can. and my thing is that, you know, there wasn't as many, it wasn't like the gig economy like it is now. And so I was like, okay, I was like, how can I, you know, kind of sit there? And it allowed me the opportunity because all those, most of the universities that I taught it were remote online. So it allowed me the opportunity to kind of, you know, work into the wee hours of the morning. And so literally I did this for a series of years.

Starting point is 00:19:21 I probably did this around maybe between my W-2 and adjuncting, I probably did I feel like around three, four years. and I had to stop because one of the things other than burnout, I know the cost of tuition for college. And if I ever, I said this to myself, if I ever got to the point where I felt like I couldn't give my students 100%, I will stop. And so it really got to the point while I was like, you know, I was like, I'm getting tired, I'm getting burned out. You know, we're getting to a point where our finances are kind of beyond where we were before, you know, we had a situation with the dealership. So let's kind of go ahead and pull back. Let's try to enjoy, you know, some of our time together and stop grinding so hard. What are you doing right now?

Starting point is 00:19:59 What am I doing right here now? Well, my life after FI, we fired in, we hit FI in 2022. So that's what we hit. So as far as I found out about the fire community in 2020. And somehow I know that I was, I don't know exactly how I ended up crossing it. I just remember seeing a podcast, they talked about how you can invest in your HSA. I was like, you can invest your HSA? I was like, I didn't know that.

Starting point is 00:20:24 And then like, it sent me down like this, this rabbit hole. and I like benched on just by every episode of Choose FI. And then they talked about, you know, the local groups and like all those other stuff. And I met a local group and I got connected with them. So that's what happened in 2020. And I was talking with my wife. And I was like, man, I was like, you know, I was like, you know, all that we've been doing. I was like, it's a name for it.

Starting point is 00:20:46 And I think we're almost there. And I kind of explained her some of the stuff and whatever. And my wife has always been extremely supportive to me. And so she's like, okay, well, you know, let's kind of go over the numbers. Let's talk about it. And I talked about it. I was like, I think in a couple years, you know, if everything kind of keeps going the right way, we'll get there. So in 2022, we hit, you know, our fine number. In 2023, my wife came to me and she said, hey, you know what? I think it would be kind of cool if I know you want to stop working, but she's like, I think I want to stop too. And so I'm like, that's fine. So in 2023, my wife completely stepped away from being a professor at the university. And in 2024, I stepped away from my W-2 job. right now as far as what life looks like for me life is good i i can't lie you know if someone would have told me um back when i was flipping a sign over at that dealership that some uh 19

Starting point is 00:21:36 years later i would have kind of you know the life where i can kind of do what i want to and go how i want to i don't know if i would have believed them um but at the same time you know there's something to be said you know when it comes to consistency and just really um trusting the process and um so now i'm able to sit here. We volunteer a lot in our kids' schools. We go to the gym like four or five times out the week now. We never thought we'd be gym rats, but we go to the gym a lot now. We have the ability now. We meet up with a lot of people who are in our FI community. And we're fortunate. And literally, this is how it looks. This past Tuesday, it's a group of us, you know, a FI group. And we are like kind of like the lunch bunch and the happy hour crew.

Starting point is 00:22:24 We don't we play at full price for anything. And so we're at we're at top golf because top golf is always 50% off on Tuesdays. And so we're sitting there. We're talking about how we're going to leave from there and go get $3 tacos because, you know, it's Taco Tuesday. And we're discussing about kind of like how we have like this ownership of our time and how grateful that we are that we have the community because we would be so alone if we didn't have, you know, kind of the camaraderie that we get in the community. So we spend a lot of time to community doing that. And also right now we're just trying to evangelize financial independence. And so right now I have a podcast that I do on a, well, I have a show which is called Everyday Money Heroes

Starting point is 00:23:09 where I go out and the goal of that is to provide information and inspiration to people of all ages to take control of their financial journey. And that's really what it is. And so literally we talk about, you know, kind of the fundamentals of FI, but also, you know, I try to spotlight people's stories who are not, you know, who might be a college professor, who might, you know, be a worker at a factory, but they're just, you know, they stay disciplined. They're living below their means and they're just investing in a difference and they're getting ownership of time back. And that's really what it's all about. So I'm thankful that I have the FI community that I trust the process because I didn't know anybody who did,

Starting point is 00:23:47 but at the same time, you know, anybody can achieve that and you can just have a life well lived. People look at me and they just like, there's no way it is. Like, you're not 65. You can't be retired. I was like, well, I was like, you don't have to be 65 to retire.

Starting point is 00:23:58 I was like, you can have time ownership at any point, you know, if you really have the ability to really stay disciplined. So hopefully I answer to your question called, but it really excites me because I know that I feel like if anybody can just understand just the concept that you can do it, I think there'll be more empowered. We have to take one final ad break, and we'll be back with more after this. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial

Starting point is 00:24:25 picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward. It's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch.

Starting point is 00:24:42 Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off your Monarch's subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focused on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in a needle.

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Starting point is 00:27:54 Just one quick comment. So you hit on this real strongly, so I'll just mention it in passing the community. Part of it is so vitally important because, like for us, it was kind of the exact same thing for us, our five story. We had all this money, and we just thought we were saving. but we had no idea what we were going to do with it. Then I discovered Mr. Money Mustache. I ran out to the kitchen, told Mindy about it. She's like, yes, this sounds great.

Starting point is 00:28:16 So side note, very thankful to have a spouse who understands and embraces us to, what a gift we both have. That's just incredible. Yes, what a gift you both have. Yes, yes. He who finds a wife finds a good thing. Yes, but if we didn't have this community to build on all that, I think we'd feel a little bit lost.

Starting point is 00:28:34 It's nice to be able to, like here, we're in Colorado, lots of hiking, lots of outdoors. And we have a hiking group that goes out on Thursdays. We have a potwalk that meets on Tuesdays. And many of the people in these groups are from the five community. So what's the point of having all this money if you can't have fun with it? And I think at the core of building a fun, fulfilling life is having good people. And I consider myself a pretty severe introvert. Most people scare me.

Starting point is 00:29:01 So for that to come from me is pretty big. I want to underscore what Carl is saying, having the community is so important. And, you know, Nick, what you said about the Choose FI local groups. Brad Barrett, that was the best thing you ever did besides, you know, the podcast and the main group and all the other things is great that you've done. But the local groups are so fantastic. Carl and I travel and we'll go to an area that has a local group and we'll jump into the group and just say, hey, we're going to have a meet up.

Starting point is 00:29:31 You know, we'd love to meet local people here. But when you don't have that community, when you are the only frugal weirdo in the neighborhood, you kind of start to feel like, oh, maybe this isn't the right thing. Or you think, I know I want to do this, but I feel so out of place. And you, you know, you do retire. You start reaching out to your friends and they're all like, what do you mean on Tuesday at noon? I got to work. And having this, this FI community, what did you call them, your FI, your lunch bunch and your lunch, yes, it's the lunch. It's the lunch. It's a lunch bunch. We're happy hour heroes and lunch bunch. You know, that's what we do. We do not believe in paying full.

Starting point is 00:30:08 price on food down here in Jacksonville. So, you know, if you get apps on your happy hour menu, we will find you. We will find you. These local groups are everywhere. And if for some reason you live in a place that doesn't have a local group yet, you can email Brad at choosefai.com and he will set one up for you. He just wants to have these continue to grow and continue to be supportive of the community. So please, please, please reach out to Brad if you don't have a local group. But first, go to choosefai.com slash local and see if there's a local group near you because there probably is. There's, what is there? Like 586 or something like that? They're everywhere. They're all across the world. They're not just in America too.

Starting point is 00:30:51 But yeah, I think that's such an awesome part of your story is just having people to connect with that speak your same language. So, Nick, I want to know we kind of jumped from 2004 a little bit and then all of a sudden, 2022, what were you investing in to get yourself to financial independence, both the type of investment and the type of account that you were putting the money into? Okay, that's a great segue, Mandy. Because one thing I did want to do, I would be remiss of that if I did not give a shout out of bigger pockets. All right. So, and this is where it goes.

Starting point is 00:31:24 So remember, I kind of hit that fork in a row where I would go either car dealership or real estate, right? I did eventually put the car in reverse and go up to real estate lane. And so what ended up happening is that, you know, the bubble happened, real estate went down. We did have our home. We had gotten to a point where we were getting ready to build a new home. We had bought some land we were going to build a new home, but we had our starter home or our first home. And we had lost so much equity. We were like, we're not going to sell it now.

Starting point is 00:31:52 I was like, so we might still keep it. So we decided to be accidental landlords. And so we didn't know a whole lot about the business. and I stumbled upon bigger pockets. And so I started going through there and once again, binge on that and started hanging out in the forums and stuff like that. So back in 2016, we actually kind of started our first rental then in 2016. So kind of using some of the know-how knowledge that we hear from bigger pockets.

Starting point is 00:32:20 From that particular point, we acquired a couple more rentals. We didn't want a large portfolio. At this point, we have four rentals, single-family. rentals, we do that. So that's part of our portfolio as far as we do that. Then also, we have just retirement accounts, types of brokerage accounts. So basically that's how we did it. We started off, we got to the point where we were able to start maxing out those 401ks. Then we got to the point where we would max out the 401ks, then we will max out the HSAs, they will max out, you know, the ROFs. And we just kind of did that every year. Then we got

Starting point is 00:32:53 to the point when we started maxing on those out, we started putting our money into just kind of VLO and VTI and all the other stuff and just continue to do that. So that was it. So right now at this particular point, we're probably about 50-50 when it comes to value when it comes to our brokerage accounts, retirement accounts, and equity and real estate. I love that story so much because what I'm hearing you say is you're not in the middle class trap, which is what Scott Trench and I call the scenario where you've done everything right. you're contributing to your retirement accounts, you are building up your home equity or paying

Starting point is 00:33:30 down your mortgage, and then you get to retirement or early retirement age, you're like, I'm a millionaire on paper. You can't actually access those funds because they're stuck in your home equity or they're stuck in your retirement accounts and you can't access them before age 59 and a half or, you know, in some cases, 55. So I love that you skip that. I love that you're not falling victim to this by contributing to a, you know, after tax accounts as well. So anybody watching who has not started contributing to their after

Starting point is 00:34:01 tax accounts yet, now is the time to start doing that. Yes, it's a balance between, oh, do I want the tax deduction versus do I want to be able to potentially retire early? So take into consideration how old you are, take into consideration what age you want to retire, but you don't want to find yourself in this middle class trap and saying, oh, now what? Yeah. Just kind of to pick it back what you were saying, Mindy. I had heard individuals before me say, hey, you know what, I went really hard on my retirement accounts, but I didn't do a whole lot to kind of bridge the gap, you know, in between, you know, even they started to do, you know, stuff like Roth conversions, all the other stuff. Like, we still need some living funds someplace. And so that's what really got me

Starting point is 00:34:44 into, okay, you know, let's get this stuff inside of a brokerage account. Now, I don't like, you know, having to pay the taxes on the stuff that's outside of the retirement accounts, but, you know, it is what it is. And so it allows me to operate. to pull off that stuff if I need to, as I'm kind of transitioning and working those other buckets. I love it. Whoever said, gave you that information, spot on. Very well done, sir. Could have been you all. I take in a lot of your contest. It could have been you all. I'll take credit for it, sure. Yeah, absolutely. Mr. 1500, you know, gave me that sage advice. Nick, thank you so much for your time today. This was so much fun. Remind me again where people can

Starting point is 00:35:21 find you online. Thank you all as well, Carla Mindy. Folks, I want to keep up with what I'm doing in my life after five. I can be found at Everyday Money Heroes on YouTube and all other platforms. I'm just excited to spread the good news that, you know, life is, life after five is what you would think it is and more. So absolutely. I look forward to seeing everybody there. And once again, thank you all for the opportunity to come here and share my story. All right. Thank you so much, Nick. And if you like this video, please click the thumbs up and don't forget to subscribe to this channel for more videos just like Nick's. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Life After Fire. And with it, Mindy and I say goodbye.

BiggerPockets Money Podcast - Losing $150K, Starting Over, and STILL Retiring Early | Life After FIRE

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